Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
where we left off with the Michael Thomas deposition with
the OIG inspectors. Question and I'm sorry you may have
said this, but I don't recall after you did chess compressions,
you said you did it for like a minute before
they responded Thomas, Yeah, maybe about a minute, nothing more
than a minute. Question Okay, Thomas, it seemed like a flash.
Question Okay, Thomas, it seemed like a flash that everybody
was inside the room. Question okay. And when they came in,
what did they do? Thomas? Once the medical staff I
can't remember his name. Once he came and was doing
chess compressions, I know I got a little exhausted and
tired and everything like that he was doing chess compressions.
He put the AED on and then that's about all
I can remember. That the guy put the AED on,
and I know he told me to stand back. Question
all right, and did you did he check for a
breath or pulse? Thomas? I really can't remember. Question do
you know when they put the AD on? Did it
ever advise for a shock? Or anything like that. Thomas,
I don't remember. Question you don't recall, Thomas, I don't remember.
Question So when they came in, did you stay in
the room or at that point? Thomas? Yeah, I stayed
in the room. Question Okay, Thomas I actually helped to
carry him downstairs. Question all right? And was that medical
personnel Thomas, he was with us the whole time? Question?
And what was his name? Thomas, I can't really remember.
Question No, Thomas. Question but he's the one who took
over chess compressions. Thomas. Yeah, he took over chess compression.
He was in the room the whole time. Question all right,
and you said you were trained on CPR though, Thomas, yeah.
Question okay, do you know when the last time you
were trained on CPR? Thomas had to be Art? Question Art?
Are you always every year trained on CPR? Thomas? Every year?
At Art? There's training? Question Okay, So like April of
twenty nineteen would have been the last time Thomas okay.
Question um, all right, So after a medical emergency, called
walk me through that a little bit in detail. What happened?
So he came, the medical person comes in, he starts
going chess compressions. About how long is he doing that? Thomas,
I don't know. I don't know how long he was
doing them before he put the AAD on. I couldn't
tell you how long he was on before he actually
put the AED because the AED right on the you
see the one right there and show. I know there's
one right there on the ninth floor. So I don't
know how long ago that he was doing chess compressions
before he actually put the AAD on. I couldn't tell you.
Maybe thirty seconds, I don't know. Oh. Question And at
that time, did you believe that he was alive or dead? Thomas?
I had so many things going through my mind. I
was just hoping everything worked out. Question Okay, So what
was going through your mind at the time, Thomas, A
whole lot. What's going on? There's a man in front
of me, you know what I mean? That's it, just
that it's a man in front of me hanging. I
just seen him hanging. Question. Yeah. Had you ever had
to respond to something like that before? Thomas? Yeah? Question,
so you've actually had to take people off from hanging
on things? Thomas, No, I've responded to like I've maybe
seen one other hanging, but they cut him down and
like that. But he was actually gotten alive when they
were indiscernible. But yeah, I've seen a few. Question okay,
and you have to do the same type of thing, Thomas. Well,
nothing to where they had to put the AD on
a person, just some chest compressions and they were revived.
Question anybody else die from it? Thomas, not that I
would recall. No question, all right? But now you did
say you ripped it down. You didn't cut it down, Thomas, Yeah,
I just tipped it down, ripped it down. Question in
the past, they actually cut it down, is what you
just said, Thomas. I don't know. Question. Oh I thought
you just said that people were hanging. They cut it down. Thomas.
Maybe if they cut it or if they ripped it down,
I don't know whatever they had at their disposal at
the time. Question. Okay, though, did you ever have to
he gets cut off by Thomas cut somebody down? Thomas? No,
this was my first time. Question that was your first
time ever being the first responder, Thomas, Yes, question okay,
And do they train you on that on if you
come in and find someone hanging, what you're supposed to do? Thomas?
I don't remember specific training on like that, but I'm
not mistaken it's life limb or something for the bureau
or something. I know I'm not supposed to just let
somebody sit there and hang. Question. No, I'm just saying, like,
do they teach you how to like respond to these things? Thomas?
Maybe it's something in art training. I don't know. Question. Okay,
so you know CPR was done in art, but you're
not sure if it was in response He gets caught
off by Thomas. It's in a particular response to if
you see somebody hanging, you do this? No question right, okay,
but is that something that occurs a lot people inmates
hanging themselves at mcc Thomas, Not a lot, but you
know sometimes people have You don't know what someone else's
stressors are they going through at home or what they're
in for. Question Yeah, I guess what I'm asking is like,
does this happen like once a week, once a month,
or once a year? Question mister Thomas. I've been there
for fourteen years. He's been there a lot longer than me.
I've seen maybe about seven hangings. Question seven hangings? Thomas,
Uh huh. Question, So if you were to estimate about
one every two years. Thomas, if you want to break
it down to that question, Okay, What did you do
after the medical emergency was called Thomas, After I got
him down? He gets cut off? No, I'm sorry. After
they responded, what did you do? Thomas? After they responded,
I helped carry him downstairs? Question you help them? Thomas, Yeah,
I helped them on the stretcher carry him downstairs. Question
now downstairs he gets cut off by Thomas to the
medical floor. It's the second floor. Question. So if you
went all the way from the shoe all the way
to the second floor Thomas, yes. Question okay, And you
were with them the whole time Thomas, Yes. I was
with them the whole time, and the medical staff was
with me, and it was a bunch of other people
in the elevator at the time. Question, and what were
you doing during that time? Thomas, I was holding the stretcher.
Question because you were one of the people Thomas, yeah.
Question So was it just you and someone else? Thomas, yeah,
me and three other people holding the stretcher. I don't
know who else was in there holding the stretcher, staff
helping bringing him down. Question So it was an actual
stretcher that you had to carry, not something like was
moving them Thomas. Yeah, yeah, it's on a stretcher. They
have stretchers on the wall and you're like that you
have to carry, you get them to the thing, and
then you just go. Did they continue life saving efforts
Thomas the whole time? Question? So while he was being
moved in the stretcher, people were like doing compressions Thomas, yep.
Question was there anything like on his face trying to
give him a error or anything like that? Thomas, I
don't recall. I don't really remember. Question. Okay, do you
have pictures of that stuff? We actually have a ton
of pictures for each Do you remember recall was this life?
Is that? In medical Thomas? It looks like I don't
know if that's the ninth floor? Is that for No?
That says right here, that's the MS question. That's ems
all right. So this isn't anything that's in the cell
or anything like that what we're talking about. Thomas. No,
that's not no, No, that's not question. This is after
all the medical Thomas. Yeah, that's all medical question. Do
they know if any pictures were taken while you were
doing this? Medical emergency. Thomas. I doubt it. I'm sure
nobody stopped to grab a camera. Question. Yeah, no, just
because we have all these Thomas, And again I'm not
still I didn't mean nothing by indiscernible. Question. So none
of these pictures have anything to do with you, Thomas.
No question. Were you even in the room during that Thomas,
I wasn't in the room for none of that. Question. Okay,
it doesn't look like we have any pictures of that stuff.
So from the shoe all the way down to the
second floor, you stay with him. You were carrying the
stretcher and someone was doing compressions Thomas yup. Question and
trying to revive him. Thomas, So you said that responded
to a medical personnel. I remember seeing and seeing the
medical personnel, and I'm sure the lieutenant was there. Question
do you remember who the lieutenant was? Thomas? No, but
I can remember who was there? Question does lieutenant redacted
sound familiar? Does that make or help you recall? Thomas?
I mean maybe maybe he was there. Question so we
can go back to that duty agent roster Thomas, it
shows that he came on in the morning. Question. Yeah, Thomas,
but you know the two hour prior, but he probably
was there. Question, So you think it was probably him?
And do you remember making any statements after the medical
emergency ride? Thomas, I don't remember what I said. I
could have been saying a whole lot. I mean, like
I said, I just seen a man hanging. Question. Sure, Thomas,
you know I don't remember exactly verbatim what I said
or anything. Question. Do you recall Noel saying we didn't
do our rounds at three am and five am? Thomas?
I don't recall her saying that? Question? All right, Thomas,
I don't remember seeing Noel after this, Actually after I
carried him downstairs. I don't even remember seeing Noel. Question
do you recall saying to Noel that we didn't do
the rounds? Did you say that it was not Noel's
fault and say we didn't do the rounds, we messed up? Thomas.
I don't remember saying that. I could have said that.
I don't remember saying it. Question, So you don't remember
saying it's not her fault? Thomas, No, I don't remember
saying anything. Like I said, I don't know what I
said exactly from that time. It was three years ago. Question,
all right, So my only question was, so that's the
state we have is that you stated she said we
didn't do the rounds, and you said, we didn't do
the rounds. We messed up. It's not Noel's fault. And
I was just wondering why you would say that it
wasn't her fault. Do you remember, Thomas, I really don't.
I really don't. Question. Yeah, you were just uttering things, Thomas,
just uttering things. Like I said, I don't remember saying that.
I don't remember not saying that. I don't remember that
was said, or who said that I said that? Like
I said, I don't remember saying it. Question, Okay, so
it wasn't like the only reason that I asked is
that it sounds like you were taking responsibility for the
rounds and the counts, and I just wanting to know
if there was a reason why you would have been
taking responsibility. Like we said, you're both responsible, Thomas. Indiscernible question,
So I don't know why you take responsibility over her
and saying it's not her fault. Thomas, I don't know
why I said anything like that if I said it. Question,
you don't know, Thomas, Like I said, I don't remember
there was a lot going on, all right, folks, We're
gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode
dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we
left off. All the information that goes with this episode
can be found in the description box.