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to it any way you wish. I really appreciate the

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support everyone gives me. It keeps the show going. It

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allows me to basically put out an episode every day now,

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and I'm not going to stop. I'm just going to accelerate.

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I think sometimes you see that I'm putting out two

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So thank you for the support. Head on over to

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Freeman Beyond the Wall dot com, forward slash support and

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do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone

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back to the Pekingona Show. John Moody's here. How are

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you doing, John? Good?

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Speaker 2: How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing good? Doing good first time on the show.

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Please tell everybody a little bit about yourself.

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Speaker 2: Oh goodness. So I'm a husband, dad to six kids.

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My wife has been trying to figure out for twenty

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years of marriage what I do vocationally, So we'll probably

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get into some of that on the show. You know,

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I've started a number of businesses over the years. I've

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been involved, especially with kind of food freedom type activism,

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you know, land rights, access to food, being able to

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choose what you actually eat, which, strangely enough, people in

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the government don't think you should actually get to choose

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what you and your family eat, local economics and things

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like that. And then you know, we homesteads. We live

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on thirty five acres a bit outside of Louisville, Kentucky,

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and this, you know, the theme of my life is

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wanting to leave my community children in a better place

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than where I started. So wherever I have opportunity to

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make those kinds of inroads and progress for my kids,

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I'm trying well.

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Speaker 1: And the whole idea of leaving a better life for

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your kids, that's up to you, isn't it. I think

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a lot of people can make excuses about, oh, the

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government's interfering with this, The government's interfering with that, and

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you know that does play into it. But really, if

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you make the decision that you are going to push

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through no matter what obstacles are put up in your way,

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and for the majority, the overwhelming majority of people, I

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mean we're talking about a fractional percentage there. The things

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that they always worry about when it comes to like

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state overreach or things like that, really don't come to fruition.

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So it really is up to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, one reason we are where we are

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is you've had a few decades of people who've complained

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about the direction things were going.

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Speaker 1: The direction I was raising my hand saying I'm one

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of them.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, you know, people complained for you know, a

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few decades in a row. The government's growing too quickly,

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the government is interfering in too many things, the government

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is taking on too many powers, writing too many rules,

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spending too much money. But then you ask them what

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did you do about it? And they look at you

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like you're an alien, Like I have a I should

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have done something about this other than watched you know,

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Fox News or watch whatever TV show and yelled at

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the screen like I had a duty and a responsibility

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to actually do something. And I don't understand how those

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few decades of people operated, you know what got them

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to that point of thinking they had no duties and

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responsible abilities civically to stand up to run amock government,

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to check tyranny, to reign in corruption and other things,

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when it would have been so much easier for them

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thirty and forty years ago.

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Speaker 1: No less. Yeah, and it really is easy to fall

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into the whole victim thing. A few years ago, a

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bunch of years ago I started talking about I was

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living in Atlanta when I started this podcast, and that

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was in twenty seventeen, and twenty twenty rolled around and

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I was like, I got to get out of here.

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I can't know this is this is no place to be.

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And you know, I got out and I'm pretty rural

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where I am, and I think that that's where you can.

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Sometimes you have to retreat in order to make your

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in order to be able to survive and to make

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a better life for yourself and be an example to

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other people. And I understand that there's I'm also someone

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who believes in tradition and believes in family, and believes

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in the legacy of family, and at times that you

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could basically be telling people to well, leave your family behind.

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If you're in a city and you've been in a

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city for generations, you know, my family was in New York,

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was in New York City for generations. Also Pennsylvania for generations,

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but way more rural in Pennsylvania. And yeah, you just

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have to make that decision because even if Trump is

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able to dismantle a good portion of this administrative state,

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the cities still are going to be Unless the cities

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are attacked, they're still going to be centers of power

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for old regime forces. And unless you have a real

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good way of you know, you have a plan for

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attacking that, and you also have a patronage system set

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up like your own USAID to fund that, then you're

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pretty much at their whim until you know, they either

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collapse on their own or someone really attacks them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, cities are an interesting problem in modern American politics. So,

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you know, I live in a slightly more rural area.

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We're an outside our outside of Louisville roughly, you know,

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thirty minutes to the Louisville metro. And I think one

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thing conservatives don't appreciate is you know, the reason cities

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have become such a problem is they've gobbled up all

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the population and all the economics of rural areas.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: So I'm helping a few people with political campaign runs

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coming up the next couple of years, and I helped

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them with messaging and talking points. You know, how how

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do you speak to some of these problems without needlessly

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alienating possible coalitions? You know, because when you're running for office,

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you need to not needlessly drive off somebody who might

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vote for you through through just you know, attacking things

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in the wrong way. It's like, you know, most of

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my neighbors who are farmers, none of their children. You know,

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they're more conservative people. They hate the dominance of these

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major cities over their entire state's political lives, and they

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hate that their children can't stay near them. You know

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what grandparent wants to go to bed at night with

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their grandchildren anywhere but close to them, where like the

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only way you can see your family. And so much

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of this is a political problem in the sense of

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why don't we have why has so much of the

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population been sucked into the cities, Why do rural areas

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have collapsing population levels and so little economic influence. It's

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these layers and layers of regulations that have only made

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it viable to build a lot of businesses or actually

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be able to realize the profit that exists in the

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economy by putting yourself under the thumb of these big cities,

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having access to these government resources and inspections and whatnot.

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And that's really you know, one of like the key areas.

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We can make so much project progress so quickly if

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people saw like there's these little places you can poke

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holes in the dam or take bricks out of the wall,

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that we can it so substantially so quickly.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of the idea of the IQ shredder?

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Speaker 2: I have not.

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Speaker 1: So Basically, like places like San Francisco and New York

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and these big metro centers that the people from rural

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areas who are high IQ are they get recruited. If

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you're going to make money, if they're going once they

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get educated, if they're going to make the kind of

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money they make, they get drawn into San Francisco, they

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get drawn into the And so you the best and

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the brightest leave rural areas. You know, you know, I'm

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not you know, I think of you know, like Marc

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Andreessen is from like rural Wisconsin or Minnesota, I can't remember,

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and you know he's in he's in San Francisco. He

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would obviously be drawn drawn out. And I'm not blaming him.

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I understand why he did it, but yeah, you have

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all these people who are in rural areas who formerly

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who through the centuries, stayed in those areas and made

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those areas great and made those areas prospers where it's

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made him what they were, and now they're drawn out

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into you know, the the zip code that every that

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you're supposed to be in because you know, that's where

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you make the most money. So yeah, I see a

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lot of that too, you know that.

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Speaker 2: You know, my friend Congressman Thomas Massey, him and his

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wife are from you know, very rural eastern Kentucky. They

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got scholarships to go to MIT, and then they were

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in Boston for a while, you know, because they started

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a tech company where you're going to start like a

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tech company, their venture capital was in Boston. That's where

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they went to school. And he's one of the rare

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examples of somebody who starts on that trajectory and does

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make good money, but he uses it to come home

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and help rebuild the area he's from. You know, so

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there's an opportunity to pill the Egyptians there for right,

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people from rural areas to go and you know, basically

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be you know, exiled in Egypt for a season, build,

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build companies, build valuable things, and then come back home

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to begin to decentralize some of these things and to

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bring some of the benefits back to where you're originally from.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the one of the things that you know, basically

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they went to Boston and they didn't forget who they were.

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The problem is is a lot of these people they

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moved to these places and they in order to fit in,

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they start adopting the beliefs that are there, and you

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know it really it really changes them. And so people

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who formally grew up in a more conservative or have

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a more historical way way of living historically was taught

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to them growing up, they become direct fascinated from that

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because well, they're going someplace where if they keep and

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they hold on to those values, it's a mark against them.

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So they they're either pretending or they truly do change

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their minds. And when they change their minds, that means

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they're not going to be going back to where they're from,

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because those people are now backwards. And you know, I'm

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with my people here in the IQ Shredder.

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Speaker 2: They're definitely you know, tribalism. That's what I love about

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Thomas and a few of my other friends, or even

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you know, my friend Joel Salatin. Joel is still just

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Joel no matter how many people he hob nods with,

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no matter how many big events he does, he knows

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who he is and where he's from. He has that

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like deep sense of connection that you really need to

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sustain a culture and civilization. You know, the more you

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break down those types of identities and loyalties, the more

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we get you know, what we see today where everything

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is reduced to you know, crass economics. What is in

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it for me, even at the expense of everyone else

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around me, including the future generations of my family.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we see that a lot. So tell me

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about tell me about local politics. Tell me about Kentucky.

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You know, it would seem that Kentucky would be one

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of those places because it's a red state, it's a

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bright red state. I think it's always the first state

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that's called for the president for the in the presidential election,

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it's like Kentucky is going to the to the Republican.

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But you know, I've been through Kentucky. I've been through Louisville,

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I've been through Lexington. Yeah, it turns out that you

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have a lot of people who flock to the cities

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go in there, and it's also read.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Kentucky suffers from bipolar disorder. So nationally, Kentucky

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for the presidential election, and I think generally speaking for

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its Senate seats, has been reliably Republican since the seventies,

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I believe, I remember my you know number is okay.

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But at the state level, so the whole time Kentucky

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nationally is voting Republican. At the state level, I think

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we've had one Republican governor in the past twenty five years,

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and I think it was maybe twenty sixteen was the

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first time in twenty years that Republicans controlled both the

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House and the Senate. So people who think of Kentucky

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as a conservative state solely based on national election data

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don't understand how confused the people who live in this

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state really are when it comes to politics. And you know, Kentucky.

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Kentucky is like prime rhino hunting land if you're somebody

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who wants to hunt rhinos. One of my favorite jokes

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about Kentucky is, you know what is a Republican in Kentucky?

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It's a Democrat who puts red on his campaign signs.

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Because the vast majority of state level Republican senators and

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legislators in this state govern and vote almost indistinguishably from

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their Democratic counterparts. It's it's always just stunning to sit

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in a room with them and ask them questions, how

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they how they think about the world, how they the

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role of government, you know, all all of these different things,

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and they don't at a root level, sound different than

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their Democratic counterparts. So they still see, you know, they

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see government as the solution rather than the problem. You

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know that they see, you know, they appeal to this

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thing called a level playing field, which really just means

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certain players can afford to comply with these rules and

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regulations that others can't. You know, But Kentucky has been

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undergoing you know, our conservatives have we have more conservatives

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who are truly conservative than ten years ago actually in

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our state level politics, which has been great We've had

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quite a few rhinos fall before the big hunting guns

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because they finally ran a foul.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Republicans, almost to a certain extent, demand to be

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at least a little bit libertarian, and they tend to

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run as libertarians then govern a Democrats because I mean,

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it's just the way it is. I think. I think

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a lot of that just has to do with a

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lot of people run for office thinking that things are

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a certain way, and then when they get in there,

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they realize things aren't a certain way and they just

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become a part of the swamp. I've heard that story

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over and over again from people who've got who helped

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people run their campaigns like a senator, a house national senator,

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house campaign from a state and then got that person elected,

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and then when they go to DC, they like change

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overnight because they get there and they're just basically told,

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you think it's going to be one way and it's

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not that way. So yeah, I mean you see that

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a lot. I mean, even even here in in Alabama,

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it's uh, you get people who are just I mean,

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you get the Republicans here adopt the a lot of

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the neo con positions which are just classically leftist positions,

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and you can't yeah until that, until that changes, there

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are a lot you know, you're not going to see

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an insane amount of change. You may see some, but

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not not a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and that's where, you know, I think one

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reason a lot of people do that is the dominant

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messaging on the conservative think set tank side is very

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deeply rooted post war consensus type messaging. And you know

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Reno's book, Return to the Strong Gods, You're finally starting

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to see a better historically informed can conservative messaging. And

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some of the problems are no, you know, like forty

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trillion dollars in national debt. You know where I think

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now that interest on the debt is it seventy percent

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of the discretionary budget or something. You know, you can

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only ignore these things for so long. You could ignore

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them under Bush, you could ignore it through Obama. But

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some of these things now they can't sweep under the

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rug that we can't afford this anymore. And they also

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can't sweep under the rug. You know. One reason neocon

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type messaging used to be very popular in red states,

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especially rural red areas, was the natural deference to LEO

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and military but the last decade has so heavily eroded that,

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you know, so conservative circles I run in. There are

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more and more churches, more and more conservative voices who

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are very anti interventionist military. They you know, they are

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widely discouraging serving in the military. You know, our constant interventionism,

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the loss of lives, the loss of resources to keep

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up these narratives, and I think you're going to see

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that continue to erode and change state level politicians and

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how they actually operate as more and more of their

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constituents are no longer beholden kind of to some of

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this messaging in some of these myths.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can encourage people to join the National Guard

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because you know, you're protect in your state, but until

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they until the guards the states decide that they can't

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be taken out and go it sent overseas. You know,

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a friend of mine was in the Coast Guard and

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during the War on Terror he ended up fighting Somali

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pirates off of Somalia in Coast Guard vehicles in cutters.

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It's like, okay, well, what did I sign up for that?

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I sign up to protect our coasts and you know,

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protect pollution in the Great lakes or protect you know,

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drug running coming into the keys or something like that,

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or why am I over in Somalia? And the same

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thing for somebody who joins, you know, the Kentucky National

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Guard is like, well, I'm joining this because this state

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may need to be protected at some point, we may

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need to protect ourselves. Oh oh, I'm in Afghanistan. What

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the hell am I doing here? I don't even know

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where Afghanistan is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that. There's an exchange in the movie

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Thirteen Hours where they're sitting on top of the building

329
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and they're talking about just like why what on earth

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are we doing here? You know, why? Why am I

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on the other side of the world most likely going

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to die and widow my wife and leave fatherless my children,

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like to what end? And you know, and again this,

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you know, helping people with messaging. We need more conservatives

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constantly bringing up these issues, you know, we in our

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in our local areas. You know, this is what helps

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us change state level politics and national politics because again,

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you know, a lot of the National Republican party platform

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and approaches are built on you know, again, like men

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over the age of fifty, you know, generally viewed their

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sons going into the military as wuha, such a great thing,

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especially for rural Going back to the economic issue, what

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else are your boys from rural areas gonna do if

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they're not like a tech genius or this, that or

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the other. The only viable career path a lot of

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them thought their sons had was military service. And so

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so many of these things hang together. And the more

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we show people, hey, these things hang together, you know

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there are other futures for your son that don't involve

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dying in some third world country so that your tax

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money can be more efficiently laundered to terrorist groups.

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Speaker 1: What were the circumstances that got you acquainted with Thomas

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Massey and other political figures.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I started a local food buying club in

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two thousand and six in Louisville, Kentucky. So I almost

356
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died in two thousand and four because of some significant

357
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health problems I developed. I was able to heal myself

358
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solely through using real food, rediscovering like, this is what

359
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food actually is, this is how you prepare it, and

360
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like Hippocrates said, your food truly can be your medicine,

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and your medicine can be your food. So I was like,

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this is amazing. I want to help other people get

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access to good quality food, and I wanted to make

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it easier for me to get good quality food because

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I basically reinvented hunting and gathering, you know, because we

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went from shopping at Kroger and wal Mart or wherever

367
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where you just go once or twice a week you

368
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get everything you need. It's like now, on Monday night,

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I have to go to a dark alley somewhere in

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Louisville to get my raw milk because at the time,

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the state was very, very aggressively anti raw milk. And

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then on Tuesday I have to go meet my CSA

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farmer for my CSA box. And on Wednesday I still

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have to go buy Kroger because it's not like I

375
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can get everything from those two places. And then on

376
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Thursday I'm at a farmer's market, and on Saturday and

377
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I'm at a different farmers market because the good farmers

378
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who sell the things I need aren't at both markets.

379
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I'm just like, who has time for this? Who has

380
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time to spend all of their non working time hunting

381
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and foraging for decent quality food? So I started a

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local food buying club. And I realized that the problem

383
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was because of the regulatory environment. You can't offer people

384
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real food and it not be a charity if you

385
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are a registered food business. You know, if you look

386
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,319
at grocery stores, if you were to get rid of

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everything but the real food in a grocery store, the

388
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,400
grocery store would go bankrupt in days of sales. Almost

389
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,839
all of their profit is from all of the processed stuff.

390
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And even now to get more profit. When you walk

391
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,400
in the grocery store, the very first thing they're selling

392
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you our vaccines. And there's now banks in grocery stores.

393
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They've almost gone the McDonald's route of becoming landlords, where

394
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they're making money off owning the land and the space,

395
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and the food itself is an incidental part of the

396
00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:01,359
business model really. So my background my undergraduate was mathematic, business,

397
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,480
finance and economics before I did my graduate work, so

398
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:07,960
I always had the kind of this math economic mind

399
00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:10,000
ability to look at things. I'm like, I want to

400
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,200
help people with food. I could never do this having

401
00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:18,319
a store model. It's just impossible. The numbers don't number.

402
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,799
So I was I looked for a way to get

403
00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:29,559
food to people without being a food handling business, and

404
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:35,839
I decided on a model of a membership prepayment service

405
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,000
type group. So you become a member of the buying club,

406
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,079
you give me your money up front, and we go

407
00:28:43,119 --> 00:28:45,519
get you the things you want so you don't have

408
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,319
to So I'm not buying stuff and reselling it. I'm

409
00:28:49,319 --> 00:28:53,799
not a reseller. I'm not a grocery store. Not anybody

410
00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:56,960
can just walk in off the street and get things.

411
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We're not open to the public, you know that kind

412
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of statutory language. So we started that in two thousand

413
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,200
and six, started with ten families in the living room

414
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of our apartment, and by two thousand and nine we

415
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,440
had about one hundred and twenty families, and by two

416
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,880
thousand and eleven, I think we had about one hundred

417
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,920
and eighty families, and we're doing about half a million

418
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dollars of local food per year. And also in twenty

419
00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:33,960
and eleven, the Kentucky State Health Department decided to raid

420
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my buying club. So they showed up on Memorial Day weekend,

421
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,039
which was like one of the worst decisions they could

422
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:47,519
ever make, a total gift for me, tactically speaking, that

423
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,200
they chose that weekend to do this, and they served

424
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:56,160
us cease and desist in quarantine orders. You know, so

425
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,079
anybody who violates this will face a five of not

426
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,559
less than five or ten thousand dollars and no less

427
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,559
than thirty to ninety days in jail. And I'd already

428
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,599
known your listeners may not be familiar with this, but

429
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,839
starting in the late nineteen nineties, the federal government, at

430
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:26,960
the behest of industrial agriculture interests, started a widespread, coordinated

431
00:30:27,119 --> 00:30:35,200
crackdown on independent farmers and local food. And there's a

432
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,799
really good documentary, kind of a cheesy title called Pharmageddon.

433
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 3: That highlights that that radicalized me, Like, I mean, yeah,

434
00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:51,400
I saw that when it came out, and even.

435
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,839
Speaker 1: More so than food, more so than food inc. Farmageddon

436
00:30:56,119 --> 00:30:58,039
was absolutely insane.

437
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Speaker 2: Well, and the worst part about that movie is as

438
00:31:01,759 --> 00:31:06,839
egregious as those I think she does eight stories, maybe

439
00:31:08,319 --> 00:31:14,400
there were easily fifty more that were ten times worse

440
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:21,480
what the government did, and another four hundred that happened

441
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:24,720
over those years. You know, there's a farmer here in Kentucky,

442
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,920
I think it was Gary Oakes. He was swat raided,

443
00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:32,880
So he was swatted, you know, guys wearing the full

444
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,640
swat tactical gear. While he was delivering milk up to

445
00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:42,319
northern Kentucky, the Kentucky side of Cincinnati. Vernon Hirschberger in

446
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:49,000
Wisconsin was charged with like four felonies overfeeding his community,

447
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,400
more charges than literally domestic terrorists like during BLM or

448
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,240
other stuff. He's an Amish ex Amish farmer, dad of

449
00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:06,000
eleven and so her movie is like a like a

450
00:32:06,079 --> 00:32:10,720
little scratching of the surface of the amount of energy

451
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:16,039
and money the government put into trying to make sure

452
00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:19,680
people could not access good quality local food.

453
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. So you mentioned a swat team.

454
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,519
Is is this a local or a county doing it

455
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:34,440
on their own or are they acting at the behest

456
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,200
of the Feds. Because the way to stop this is

457
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:39,680
you have a sh You know, I've been saying this

458
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,279
for years. The sheriff is the most powerful person in

459
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:46,319
the country, the most powerful position. They can choose not

460
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,559
to cooperate with the Feds. It happened at Waco, and

461
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,039
I mean they actually didn't even ask the sheriff Harwell

462
00:32:54,119 --> 00:32:57,119
for help in Waco. They just went by. They just

463
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,240
bypassed him and see what happens. They lost They lost

464
00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:05,400
four of their quote unquote heroes. On the first day. Yeah, So,

465
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,799
I mean I think that's what it is is this

466
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,359
is local and county police cooperating with the Feds. Why

467
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,680
are the hell are you doing that?

468
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: Exactly? This is why I love Sheriff Max Constitutional Peace

469
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:25,599
Officers Association because, you know, so what we found out.

470
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,359
You know, so we were raided in twenty eleven, and

471
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up until that point, pretty much everybody else who had

472
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,319
been raided by the government in the local food wars

473
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:43,440
had lost. So Rassam in California rated twice, totally shut down,

474
00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:47,680
man A storehouse in Ohio, Athens locally grown down in Georgia.

475
00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:52,039
All of these different farmers, all of them just got steamrolled.

476
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,799
And so we were raided and we were the first

477
00:33:56,839 --> 00:34:03,599
group in the country to walk away winner. So and

478
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:08,199
that started this trajectory where I ended up meeting Thomas

479
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,239
Massey probably a year or two later at a food

480
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,840
freedom focused event. It's still one of my favorite memories

481
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,960
of Thomas ever, because he walks into the Stonewall Jackson

482
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:25,639
Hotel in Staunton, Virginia because we're doing this event near

483
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,000
Polly Face Farm and Joel Salatin for obvious reasons, and

484
00:34:30,119 --> 00:34:32,840
you know, Massy walks in, and I was kind of

485
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,880
like overseeing certain parts of the event. So Massey walks

486
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,960
in and I stand up to grim like, Hi, I'm

487
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,880
John Moody. He's like, hey, I'm Congressman Thomas Massey. I go, yeah,

488
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,559
I go, you look like your picture. So he shakes

489
00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:46,400
my hands and then he looks at me. He goes,

490
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:54,880
do you want some eggs? I'm like, he's a sitting

491
00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:00,519
member of Congress who's offering me eggs. I just met him.

492
00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:05,039
I probably shouldn't say no, So I'm like, sure, I'll

493
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:07,760
take some eggs. He's like, let's go back to my car.

494
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,840
So now we're going to this underground parking lot with

495
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,320
a man I do not know, and I have this

496
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,320
existential crisis moment where I'm like, I'm about to be abducted.

497
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,320
My wife and children are never going to see me

498
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,880
again because this Thomas Massey look alike got me with

499
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,760
an offer of free pastured eggs. But we get down

500
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,440
to his car in the parking lot and one side

501
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,840
of the bumper of his car is all local food

502
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,199
stickers like grow more food, food freedom, eat what you know,

503
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,360
like all local food steward the environment. Bumper sticker slogans.

504
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,760
Then the other side and this is like, you know,

505
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,880
this is twenty thirteen or fourteen. He's driving this little red,

506
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,320
totally beat up car as a congressman, just like almost

507
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,360
a piece of junk car. The other side is all

508
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:14,079
firearms stickers, like you know, just as pro firearms as you.

509
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,440
And I'm sitting here looking at the two sides of

510
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,960
the car imagining somebody in Washington, d C. Being stuck

511
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,679
in traffic behind Massy, trying to reconcile these two usually

512
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,800
opposed world views politically. But he gave me some pastured

513
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,119
eggs because he told me Ronda would kill him if

514
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:37,000
he came back home not having gotten rid of all

515
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:39,119
of these pastured eggs they'd built up.

516
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: So let me ask you. One time I left the

517
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,760
United States and I went to live in eastern European

518
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,000
country that was could have been a borderline third World,

519
00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:56,440
but more like second World at that time. And when

520
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,639
I started eating over there, it seemed like the first

521
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,480
four or five days I was going through a detox.

522
00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:11,320
My body was completely emptying through my skin in every orifice.

523
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:17,400
I don't even know what. Why was that? What the fuck? What?

524
00:37:17,679 --> 00:37:19,320
I'm sorry what's in our food?

525
00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:22,679
Speaker 2: Oh, you just can't even begin to imagine that. There's

526
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,320
some good videos on YouTube where people will show the

527
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:32,159
exact same product in Europe and in America, and then

528
00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:35,400
they'll just turn to the ingredients. You know, you know,

529
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:43,440
so these are theoretically identical companies, identical products, and the

530
00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:46,679
ingredient list in Europe will be you know, like this long,

531
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,599
and the ingredient list in the United States will be

532
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:54,480
like this law and you're just like what, like how

533
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,320
you know? In the United States there are thous zens

534
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:06,119
of chemicals and food additives that are allowed to be

535
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,800
added into our food or used in growing our food

536
00:38:10,039 --> 00:38:13,719
or raising our food, that almost no one else in

537
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,119
the world allows to be used. And it's baffling to me.

538
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,280
I mean, obviously it makes sense. They merely bought off

539
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,599
the FDA and the USDA.

540
00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:30,559
Speaker 1: Okay, let's start right there. Why is it cheaper or

541
00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:32,079
is this nefarious?

542
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it's you know, obviously, as

543
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,480
a Christian, I think there's like an overarching evil power

544
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,679
at work in the world. But he can use stupidity

545
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,840
just as easily as he can use malice, And there

546
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,239
is a measure of malice, but a lot of it.

547
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,800
In my experience actually dealing with these people, it's really

548
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,960
just a combination of greed and stupidity. You know, it's

549
00:39:02,519 --> 00:39:08,679
you know, it's just greed and stupidity. Though what's that quote,

550
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,519
It's like, you know, at a high enough level, the

551
00:39:12,559 --> 00:39:18,920
difference between malice and stupidity is indistinguishable, because you know,

552
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,320
you look at like what some of these large companies

553
00:39:22,079 --> 00:39:26,320
did with I think it's pfo s's like poly fluorinated

554
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,920
putting into the water supply in West Virginia in similar places.

555
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,000
You look at one of what these companies did with

556
00:39:36,039 --> 00:39:38,920
like radium, or you look at you know, the tobacco

557
00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:45,079
files and stuff for tobacco companies. You know, there's definitely

558
00:39:45,079 --> 00:39:50,199
a degree of malice in the sense of we really

559
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,679
do know this is bad, but we're gonna do it anyway.

560
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,639
But but it's you know, it's a type of malice

561
00:39:58,679 --> 00:40:00,760
where they're not doing it because as they're trying to

562
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:06,400
depopulate the world. But it's the type of malice where

563
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,800
they really don't care how much it harms people because

564
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,320
they rationalize it away.

565
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: It's the same kind of rationalization or malice behind you know,

566
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:27,119
sending American troops to Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere where

567
00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:30,119
they know they're going to get killed, or I mean

568
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,519
even bombing other countries where you know, I guess because

569
00:40:35,559 --> 00:40:39,880
they're not because they're not American, they're they're humanity doesn't matter,

570
00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:43,960
or you just make all these rationalizations for you know,

571
00:40:44,039 --> 00:40:47,159
oh well, I mean, they're the terrorists are using them

572
00:40:47,159 --> 00:40:49,800
as human shields. Have you ever notice when you when

573
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,800
the United States kills or Israel kills a bunch of

574
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,760
kids or something, it's because they were being used as

575
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,920
human shields. And I mean apparently nobody except me and

576
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,280
maybe you know a bunch of other people demand proof

577
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,800
of that. But it's like, oh no, here, here's the proof.

578
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:13,559
Here's an Israeli newspaper saying that they okay, well, so, yeah,

579
00:41:13,679 --> 00:41:18,199
I mean believing that they would put stuff in food

580
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:22,239
that's just really going to make us sick and which

581
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:27,239
you know, in turn benefits pharma because now they get

582
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,199
to the curate of the sickness is to take pills

583
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:32,960
and shots and everything.

584
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:33,559
Speaker 2: That.

585
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't see a problem

586
00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:41,039
with it being nefarious or stupid, or the fact that

587
00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:43,800
they know that it's making people sick when they're willing

588
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:48,320
to just kill kill kids and women and innocent people

589
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,400
and send our people off to wars for wars for

590
00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:56,079
nothing other than to oh, I don't know, you know,

591
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,960
settle some ethnic blood feuds from five hundred years ago.

592
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure we're going to be very successful at finally,

593
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,400
you know, remedying. Yeah, it's and you know, this reminds

594
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,960
me of the old phrase. You know, one death is

595
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:16,199
a tragedy, a thousand deaths is a statistic. And there's

596
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,920
definitely that because a lot of these people are then

597
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,800
the same people who will use a one off shooting

598
00:42:24,599 --> 00:42:29,119
where a child dies. That's why we need to abolish

599
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:36,639
the Second Amendment while they're profiting from killing thousands of

600
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:42,000
children through diabetes and cancer and other stuff. And you're

601
00:42:42,039 --> 00:42:48,880
just like, you know, human inconsistency and hypocrisy and stupidity

602
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,599
are the are the only infinites in the universe outside

603
00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:56,920
of God? I always let you know, Einstein was I

604
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,440
think Einstein has a thing where he's like he was

605
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:04,360
once asked, you know, what is infinite in the universe?

606
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,199
And he goes, He's like, what are the only infinites?

607
00:43:07,199 --> 00:43:12,039
We know of, and Einstein responds the universe and human stupidity.

608
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:15,760
But there's only one of those. I'm not sure about

609
00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:19,119
referring to the universe. He's not sure if it's infinite,

610
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:21,800
but he's pretty sure human's stupidity is unbounded.

611
00:43:24,599 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: The Well, here, let's let's go in this direction since

612
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,960
it's something that's you know, people have been talking about.

613
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:39,320
Robert F. Kennedy Junior, Maha. Do you think if he

614
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,239
goes as hard like I mean, I guess we found

615
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,920
out last night. I saw reports that USAID is officially

616
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,679
closed down, that they're gone, they shutter the offices, everybody's

617
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,840
everybody's on leave or you know, send home. Do you

618
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,280
think that if somebody has the will and the power

619
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,079
to do it, that that they can turn this around?

620
00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:10,239
That they can not only pharma, which is something that

621
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,400
if you keep yourself healthy enough, you don't ever have

622
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,519
to deal with, but I mean, if the food supply

623
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:22,079
is poison, then we're just doomed. So do you think

624
00:44:22,119 --> 00:44:25,400
he Do you like what you're hearing from him? Does

625
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,039
it give you hope? Do you think that that this

626
00:44:28,159 --> 00:44:29,559
is going to happen? Yeah?

627
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,199
Speaker 2: Well, I think you know, as I said, at the

628
00:44:32,199 --> 00:44:35,119
fall at the Rogue Food Conference, Joel Salatin and I

629
00:44:35,199 --> 00:44:42,039
put on this is a once in a century opportunity

630
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:50,079
to fix a bunch of problems. RFK cannot do it alone.

631
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,480
So if you're somebody who cares about the future of

632
00:44:53,519 --> 00:44:56,320
your children, the future of your county, the future of

633
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,159
your state, the future of your country, this is the

634
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:06,559
opportunity to get into the game, and you know, fixing

635
00:45:06,599 --> 00:45:12,360
the food system that it. Honestly, you know, some of

636
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:18,679
these problems are theoretically theoretically daunting, but you could fix

637
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:23,519
some of these problems within a decade just by addressing

638
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:29,239
a handful of major policy areas. You know, what turned

639
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:34,639
all of America from western Ohio all the way to

640
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:39,000
Colorado into a ceaseless field of corn and soy that

641
00:45:39,199 --> 00:45:43,519
is sprayed with the leftovers of World War Two and

642
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,559
is financed with an energy policy that has to be

643
00:45:47,679 --> 00:45:51,800
upheld by our military. Like what did it? It's it's

644
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,199
all a very narrow range of government policies. I don't

645
00:45:55,199 --> 00:45:57,320
know if you've ever talked about Earl Butts on your

646
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,800
show or familiar with him. You know, because because people

647
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,320
look around and people like, oh, this just the way

648
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,639
it's always been like Earl Butts was head of the USDA,

649
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,119
and his entire USDA motto and policy was get big

650
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,159
or get out. So, you know, if you want to

651
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,519
understand current American history and you've never heard of Earl Butts,

652
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,800
you need to go read him because he solves so

653
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,719
many like gaps in understanding why we are where we are.

654
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:36,480
So if you just undo a lot of his policies

655
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,360
and how they kind of work out through the farming sector,

656
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,920
through the economy into the grocery store, if you have

657
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:50,000
the wisdom and skill to unwind some of these policies,

658
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,559
you can in again in like a five, ten, fifteen

659
00:46:55,639 --> 00:47:02,960
year window, you can quickly move us back to a

660
00:47:03,079 --> 00:47:07,599
measure of sanity. And you know, New Zealand's obviously a

661
00:47:07,639 --> 00:47:12,360
tiny country. It's probably GDP is less than Texas. But

662
00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:17,039
New Zealand did this I think like fifteen years ago.

663
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,599
Where where they they? You know, they had created a

664
00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:28,920
farming economy completely dependent and distorted by government subsididation and interventionism,

665
00:47:29,519 --> 00:47:32,239
and they as a nation, I don't understand how they

666
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,679
even pulled this off. At the time, they just went

667
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:40,039
cold turkey. They told they told farmers You'll have three

668
00:47:40,159 --> 00:47:45,119
years to transition or to get out of farming. So

669
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,960
during these three years you need to find ways you

670
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,760
can be profitable without us having to prop you up.

671
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,360
And now New Zealand has a very, very profitable, healthy

672
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:03,440
farm economy that actually functions in a market rather than

673
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,280
being dependent upon taxpayers because people are doing dumb things.

674
00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:12,480
So I overall love everything I'm seeing coming out of

675
00:48:12,599 --> 00:48:18,280
RFK in terms of health policy, farm policy, and how

676
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,559
these things kind of nest together the quote, you know,

677
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:29,440
the challenge I think for Trump's entire administration is will

678
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:34,440
they be able to get Congress on board with making

679
00:48:34,599 --> 00:48:42,679
substantive legislative changes that free the executive branch to undo

680
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,840
some of this stuff? And that's you know, So I

681
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:53,880
think RFK will get done everything he can given the

682
00:48:53,960 --> 00:49:01,760
limitations of a hostile, activist judicial branch and a Republican

683
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:07,519
Congress that is deeply beholden to special interests, especially agricultural.

684
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: Do you think there's an issue there with the way

685
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,480
farming is set up now where the farmer, you know,

686
00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:20,119
so like in in Alabama, most of the people who

687
00:49:20,199 --> 00:49:25,840
have egg have chicken chicken houses. They are basically doing

688
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,840
business with the Coke with with with Coke. I mean,

689
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,079
they're all their eggs go to Coke there, it's a partnership.

690
00:49:33,559 --> 00:49:39,199
And yeah, there's a lot of that all throughout the country.

691
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:43,159
And it makes people good money. It definitely makes people better.

692
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,639
It makes farmers better money, or people who are willing

693
00:49:45,639 --> 00:49:47,760
to do this better money than if they were selling

694
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,000
it locally or they were trying to do business with

695
00:49:51,199 --> 00:49:56,679
different companies. It seems to me like you're going to

696
00:49:56,679 --> 00:50:00,519
have to convince farmers and you know, and dairy dairy

697
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:05,199
people of this as well, because they've basically been set

698
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,960
into this almost like an automatic kind of way of

699
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:16,000
operating that if that is, if that's interrupted, I mean,

700
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,679
it interrupts their cash, interrupts their income.

701
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:22,679
Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna ask you why. You just said that

702
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,920
it's more profitable for them to sell into these systems

703
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,519
than sell locally. And I just asked, well, I mean,

704
00:50:31,679 --> 00:50:37,400
you're getting that that data from.

705
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,679
Speaker 1: Just some numbers that I know. I don't think and

706
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,000
I actually think that if they were selling locally, the

707
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,079
you could make you definitely have a bigger profit margin

708
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:54,440
because you're keeping it, You're doing more for yourself. But

709
00:50:56,199 --> 00:51:00,280
I guess it comes down to where a lot of

710
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:04,360
this is where it's like, Okay, well, I don't know.

711
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,599
It just seems like a structure that has it seems

712
00:51:08,599 --> 00:51:12,320
like one of those structures that's been created to keep

713
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,440
people enslaved to a certain way of doing things, and

714
00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:19,199
for them to go outside of that and to abandon

715
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,039
it completely and go to another model is going to

716
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:26,599
be very painful on a personal level for the person

717
00:51:26,599 --> 00:51:27,800
who's engaging in it.

718
00:51:29,159 --> 00:51:33,639
Speaker 2: So my thought on this is the model you're appealing

719
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:40,199
to is not profitable for the vast majority of farmers.

720
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:45,639
If they were not getting government subsidies directly and indirectly,

721
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:50,599
none of them would farm that way. And if some

722
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,400
of the costs of farming that way they actually had

723
00:51:54,440 --> 00:52:02,280
to bear drift over spray water, table pollute, air pollution,

724
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:09,559
in terms of just how noxious KFO raising of animals is, smells,

725
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:15,800
and otherwise. You know, that system only exists because we

726
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:22,559
the taxpayer, subsidize it to the tune of over probably

727
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:27,079
one hundred billion dollars a year in direct and indirect subsidies,

728
00:52:28,039 --> 00:52:33,159
and then the government legally protects those farmers from any

729
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:39,360
actual liability for harms they do to adjacent property owners.

730
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,360
And again, yeah, the other reason I don't think a

731
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,039
lot of the farmers actually like these systems is because

732
00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:51,920
none of their kids generally want to take over, you

733
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,639
know that. I think the average age of farmers in

734
00:52:54,719 --> 00:53:01,079
America now is approaching something like seventy two years old. Like,

735
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:07,960
none of these people have what child grows up dreaming

736
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:13,320
of caring for a barn full of one hundred thousand

737
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,280
trapped chickens, you know, something like out of the horror

738
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:23,239
movie Saw. You know, it's this isn't a system that

739
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,760
appeals to almost anybody, but especially the families that are

740
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,679
trapped in it. But they truly are trapped in it,

741
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,760
you know. So take Kentucky. I think it was in

742
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,880
nineteen ninety six the state of Kentucky had over eight

743
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:48,800
thousand family dairy farms. In two thoy and sixteen, the

744
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:56,639
state had eight hundred. That is a ninety percent loss.

745
00:53:57,679 --> 00:53:59,559
So and the reason I know this is I was

746
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:02,920
working on a piece of legislation in Kentucky and we

747
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:10,519
were sitting down across from the Kentucky Dairy Federation representatives

748
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:13,760
talking about this legislation, and we looked at them and

749
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:19,679
we said, do you think you truly are representing the

750
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,159
interests of your members when ninety percent of them have

751
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:27,639
gone out of business or quit under your leadership, Like,

752
00:54:27,679 --> 00:54:32,360
can you really sit there with a straight face? But

753
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,920
the you know, so, the reason people are selling eggs

754
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:40,280
to the Koch Brothers is because of the subsidies and

755
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:46,599
because of the regulatory protections and scheme. You know why

756
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:51,920
is almost all milk and America pasteurized because until recently,

757
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,960
almost every single state in the nation and this only

758
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,639
started I think in the fifties, so this is very

759
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:03,199
very recent. I think Kentucky did not pass its pasteurized

760
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:08,840
milk ordinance. Many states sit in pass pasteurized milk ordinances

761
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:16,400
until the seventies, so making raw milk sales illegal for farmers.

762
00:55:17,559 --> 00:55:21,320
It is a is a completely historically new thing. It's

763
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,960
only been around, you know, forty to fifty sixty years

764
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:32,039
in most places. But once you pass that one regulatory change,

765
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,400
there's now nowhere else for farmers to sell their milk,

766
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:40,039
and they're caught in the system. And that's why, you

767
00:55:40,039 --> 00:55:42,800
know again, it's it's not that we have to change everything,

768
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:47,599
but if we're if we're strategic, and if somebody like

769
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:52,840
RFK is strategic, and you change some of the most

770
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:59,000
important things. It's like flicking over dominoes that other things

771
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,880
are going to naturally fall. It's going to naturally move

772
00:56:03,599 --> 00:56:06,840
a lot of the board, and that's what me and

773
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,039
other people are really focusing on doing. You know, one

774
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:13,360
of the highlights of the past ten years has been

775
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,719
the number of states that have adopted wide ranging food

776
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,639
freedom legislation, and I think even a few states have

777
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:27,440
gone the constitutional amendment route. And what's amazing when you

778
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:32,760
go visit those states is just how much that is

779
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:37,679
changing things on the ground that you can make food

780
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,960
in your house again and sell it to your neighbors.

781
00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:43,960
And you're like, oh, John, well, what are you talking

782
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:48,199
about here, Like, that's just a mom and her daughter

783
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:52,840
selling thirty thousand dollars a year. What does that matter? Well,

784
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,000
it may not seem like a lot, but that's a

785
00:56:55,039 --> 00:56:58,119
mom who can actually now stay home and homeschool kids

786
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,119
and they can still afford it and standard of living.

787
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:07,000
But that's not one mom. That is ten thousand families

788
00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:14,000
doing that. That is thirty million, three hundred million, three

789
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:19,719
billion dollars quite quickly. You know, think of things like yogurt.

790
00:57:20,039 --> 00:57:22,960
Yogurt in America, I was I was doing the numbers

791
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,039
on this recently, thinking through a couple product categories. I

792
00:57:27,079 --> 00:57:30,760
want to say, yogurt in America is an eight billion

793
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:38,119
dollar industry. Just yogurt. Imagine if because we change the

794
00:57:38,199 --> 00:57:45,679
regulatory environment, instead of it being twenty companies profiting from

795
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:53,360
eight billion dollars, it was twenty thousand farms. How and

796
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:58,960
so there's so many against small areas where if you

797
00:57:59,039 --> 00:58:03,320
tweak these things and you let farmers, you let local

798
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:10,440
economies be free again, you can very very quickly, you know,

799
00:58:10,599 --> 00:58:12,199
reset the playing board.

800
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: No, I'm one hundred percent for farmers being able to

801
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,559
do whatever they want for there to be an open market.

802
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,719
I just have to play Devil's advocate, because you know

803
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,159
that's what people are. People are going to people immediately

804
00:58:26,239 --> 00:58:28,320
go to the negative when you've been losing for so long.

805
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,719
Speaker 2: Well, so, yeah, and the people just have to understand,

806
00:58:31,719 --> 00:58:37,880
like that farming model is not something farmers willingly chose,

807
00:58:39,239 --> 00:58:42,760
you know, just like immigration in our nation. None of

808
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:47,079
us were sitting around thirty years ago saying we need

809
00:58:47,079 --> 00:58:49,719
to let millions of people every year be allowed to

810
00:58:49,719 --> 00:58:52,880
come to this country at our expense. We didn't choose this.

811
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:58,239
It was engineered and foisted upon us. And again people

812
00:58:58,239 --> 00:59:00,079
are waking up to this. You know, this is a

813
00:59:00,239 --> 00:59:05,159
reason for Trump's election, why JD. Vance's messaging is so popular.

814
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:11,079
That this didn't happen naturally. People didn't naturally choose this.

815
00:59:11,679 --> 00:59:18,079
Moms in the nineteen seventies didn't in a vacuum stop

816
00:59:18,199 --> 00:59:25,760
breastfeeding their children. There were, you know, huge forces deployed

817
00:59:26,599 --> 00:59:31,679
to create these outcomes. And the great thing is seeing

818
00:59:31,719 --> 00:59:34,559
more and more people begin to realize that. And I

819
00:59:34,599 --> 00:59:38,000
want them to realize that about food and farming. You

820
00:59:38,039 --> 00:59:40,719
know the reason You go back and look at pictures

821
00:59:41,159 --> 00:59:44,840
in the nineteen seventies and you just can't find fat people.

822
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,079
You know, finding a fat person in the nineteen seventies

823
00:59:49,159 --> 00:59:51,880
is even harder than finding where's Waldo in one of

824
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:55,320
those Waldo books. It's just like, you know, pictures of people,

825
00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:00,960
it's just like they barely exist. And now sixty percent

826
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:06,239
of Americans are fatter, obese, or more. So. You know,

827
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:12,039
these are things that were engineered that we now live with.

828
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:17,280
And because they were engineered, you can engineer escape routes.

829
01:00:17,519 --> 01:00:24,199
We really can strategically attack policy areas, economic areas. And

830
01:00:24,239 --> 01:00:26,679
the big thing probably for your listeners to realize is

831
01:00:28,039 --> 01:00:35,480
doing these things has beneficial political ramifications that your listeners

832
01:00:35,559 --> 01:00:42,840
probably care about, like blue cities dominating otherwise red states.

833
01:00:44,079 --> 01:00:49,719
If you can restore more economic power to rural areas,

834
01:00:50,719 --> 01:00:54,440
that attracts more businesses and people to stay in them.

835
01:00:54,559 --> 01:00:57,960
And as we talked about earlier with culture shaping, when

836
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,320
you keep people in those areas, they naturally trend and

837
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:09,280
stay more conservative. And so we want to think through

838
01:01:10,159 --> 01:01:13,280
how these things interplay and where do we get a

839
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,079
lot of bang for our buck. Where can we make

840
01:01:16,159 --> 01:01:20,599
a lot of progress that's really permanent progress towards long

841
01:01:20,679 --> 01:01:25,800
term things we care about. And food and farming and

842
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,679
those types of issues are one area that when I

843
01:01:29,719 --> 01:01:33,800
started in this area twenty years ago, all the conservative

844
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,679
people thought I was crazy, and all the liberal people

845
01:01:37,679 --> 01:01:40,599
thought I must be a liberal being a guy running

846
01:01:40,639 --> 01:01:44,320
a food buying club in two thousand and six in Louisville, Kentucky.

847
01:01:45,159 --> 01:01:47,920
But now it's changed. You have the New York Times

848
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:53,719
running pieces defending processed foods, you know, because they have

849
01:01:53,760 --> 01:02:01,039
to counter signal you know, Trump and RFK and company.

850
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: No, that's you put it perfectly. You know, you're saying

851
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:09,599
something that I haven't been able to say when I

852
01:02:09,639 --> 01:02:14,840
talk about local politics, is that when you when you're

853
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,920
empowering these local businesses, and that's what a farm should be.

854
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,760
It should be a local business that may do business

855
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:27,760
with national companies whatever. That you're taking power out of

856
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,320
the city. You know, You're also you're also saying, you know,

857
01:02:31,519 --> 01:02:33,239
you can also tell the city, you know, we grow

858
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,000
your food, well, we can choose not to do business

859
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,920
with you if you if your power is encroaching too

860
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:46,639
much upon us is you know, I've always when people

861
01:02:46,679 --> 01:02:49,000
bring up New York, New York City, you know, I

862
01:02:49,079 --> 01:02:52,039
hyperbolically say, just build a wall around the city and

863
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:55,199
let them meet each other, or just stop delivering stop

864
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:59,000
delivering to it, you know, stop delivering food to them,

865
01:02:59,719 --> 01:03:04,320
because they're psychotic. They're going to take us down. I mean, Washington,

866
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:08,960
d C. Is going and it's surrounding counties have been

867
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,760
trying to get us into a nuclear war for the

868
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:16,760
last three years. So it's like, what do you think

869
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,280
you're going to be able to do? The only way

870
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,360
you can defeat them is you have to figure out

871
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,400
how to take their power away from them. And it's

872
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,519
a lot easier to do from the outside than it

873
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:32,400
is to do from the inside, and entrenched as entrenched

874
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:36,440
as they become unless you can figure out ways. And

875
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:39,960
hopefully this is something Trump's doing and doege is doing

876
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,280
with taking away so many of the trying to take

877
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,639
away these agencies that fund them, that that's the way

878
01:03:45,679 --> 01:03:49,000
you take away their power. But in the meantime, you

879
01:03:49,719 --> 01:03:53,360
have to make your stand somewhere else, and making your

880
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,320
stand somewhere else takes away their power.

881
01:03:57,519 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I think it's going to be interesting

882
01:04:00,039 --> 01:04:03,960
thing depending on how much Trump and Elon are able

883
01:04:04,039 --> 01:04:10,519
to turn off that tap of water, how much that's

884
01:04:10,519 --> 01:04:15,280
going to trickle into local and state level politics, because

885
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,960
my personal theory is one reason that Democrats have been

886
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,840
so effective politically is so much of this money was

887
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,800
being laundered. It freed It freed them up to do

888
01:04:28,039 --> 01:04:31,199
far more because the vast majority of this money was

889
01:04:31,239 --> 01:04:37,559
being laundered back to liberal organizations. And if they're losing

890
01:04:38,239 --> 01:04:44,239
hundreds of billions of dollars, you know, they're either gonna

891
01:04:44,239 --> 01:04:45,679
have to you know, they're gonna have to spend more

892
01:04:45,719 --> 01:04:48,480
money to get that tap turned back on. But if

893
01:04:48,519 --> 01:04:50,840
they can't get that tap turned back on, for a

894
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,960
number of years. I wonder how much we're going to

895
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,840
see that at the state level in terms of nonsense

896
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,559
messaging and so much else they won't be able to finance.

897
01:05:02,159 --> 01:05:06,000
But but you know, interesting aside on just how the

898
01:05:06,039 --> 01:05:07,920
next four years is going to play out.

899
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've already started hearing out of Birmingham here. Montgomery's

900
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:18,039
our capital, but but Birmingham is the biggest is the

901
01:05:18,039 --> 01:05:24,559
big city people complaining their you know, oh this Trump

902
01:05:24,599 --> 01:05:27,440
has shut down this thing and this is what was

903
01:05:28,159 --> 01:05:33,239
financing this here. And I'm like, I'll get a violin

904
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,920
for you. Yeah, I mean I don't care. I don't

905
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,079
care you. I can just look at the look at

906
01:05:40,079 --> 01:05:42,199
the messaging you're putting out there, and I know that

907
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:47,239
I want you weakened. So yeah, yeah, hopefully they are

908
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:53,159
getting something done. But really, the I think people don't

909
01:05:53,360 --> 01:06:02,519
understand that the health issue is how important that is.

910
01:06:02,639 --> 01:06:07,400
I mean, you're just if you're if you're not healthy,

911
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,480
if you don't have access to it, at least have

912
01:06:09,599 --> 01:06:11,239
access to healthy food. If you want to have a

913
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:17,760
choice between garbage and something, that sure give people that choice.

914
01:06:18,199 --> 01:06:20,360
Just like if people want the choice and taken vaccines

915
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,440
or whatever, give them that choice, but there should be

916
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:26,400
there should be a choice. And if that's all we're

917
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,960
given is a choice between one and two, I'll take it.

918
01:06:30,039 --> 01:06:32,280
And I don't think I don't think a lot of people,

919
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,400
even even on you know, the even the extreme right,

920
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:41,000
realize just exactly how important that is to the future

921
01:06:41,039 --> 01:06:41,639
going forward.

922
01:06:41,679 --> 01:06:45,559
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, Well, you know, just one interesting piece

923
01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:49,400
of information. You know, men who are overway to have

924
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:54,960
poor diets have far lower testosterone levels. This is something

925
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:59,960
all over the media the past ten years. How men

926
01:07:00,159 --> 01:07:06,280
testosterone levels in America have just been plummeting average test

927
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:09,039
sauscer and levels. And at the same time, when you

928
01:07:09,079 --> 01:07:15,880
look at research on how male hormone health affects their

929
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:21,280
political patterns. You know, if we could find a way

930
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:28,039
to sneak TRT into the entire nation's water supply before

931
01:07:28,159 --> 01:07:33,039
midterm elections, we probably have the entire country go Republican.

932
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:39,679
Like you know, there's you know, your health impacts your politics.

933
01:07:40,159 --> 01:07:44,639
Like a weak man who has not cared for his

934
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:50,679
body well and not managed his money well. Once protected

935
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:56,039
from those choices, and that protection comes in the form

936
01:07:56,239 --> 01:08:01,800
of government imposed no you can own guns and government

937
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:08,840
police and government insurance, whereas a man who stewarts his life, well,

938
01:08:10,599 --> 01:08:12,880
he wants to be protected from the government. So you

939
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:16,840
kind of see this. You know, there's this nature of

940
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:21,199
one group of people want to government to protect them

941
01:08:21,199 --> 01:08:25,079
from themselves, and one group of people want protected from

942
01:08:25,159 --> 01:08:30,520
the government because they're able to protect themselves. And that

943
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,039
dynamic is a very you know, dangerous one we now

944
01:08:34,039 --> 01:08:37,079
have in our country where we have such a large

945
01:08:37,119 --> 01:08:42,520
class of people who don't want to live. They don't

946
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,159
want to reap what they've been sewing. They don't want

947
01:08:45,159 --> 01:08:47,840
to live with their decisions. They don't want to admit

948
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,760
I should have got up off the couch, I should

949
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,760
have quit drinking beer, I should not have been eating

950
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:58,520
out of a clown head four days a week. And

951
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,800
everybody knows these things are bad. Like you don't need

952
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:07,199
somebody up on a television it. You know, it always

953
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:13,159
amazes me. You know, nobody wakes up obese overnight. It

954
01:09:13,199 --> 01:09:20,680
always amazes me the human capability to purposely ignore warning signs.

955
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,399
You know, when the first time you have to let

956
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:31,000
out another notch in your belt, and that alone is like,

957
01:09:31,319 --> 01:09:36,000
you know, when I noticed that. For me, I'm just like, no, dude,

958
01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:38,640
let's cookies. Let you know, more time on the assaulting,

959
01:09:39,239 --> 01:09:42,159
but the second notch. But then when you can no

960
01:09:42,239 --> 01:09:47,359
longer see your toes, like, isn't that a five alarm

961
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:51,239
fire to you? And so partly too, we did. We

962
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:58,000
need to recover a robust idea of being personally responsible

963
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:04,159
and accountable. No longer passing the buck, no longer blaming mom, dad,

964
01:10:04,319 --> 01:10:06,680
my third grade teacher, this, that and the other, but no,

965
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,840
like I'm responsible for these things.

966
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:13,239
Speaker 1: I can't think of a better message to end it on.

967
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:18,600
So tell everybody where they can find your work, you're writing, whatever,

968
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:20,680
whatever you want to plug right now, go right ahead

969
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:20,960
and do it.

970
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Joel and I do a conference called Rogue Food.

971
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,239
We're doing one in Florida two weeks from today actually,

972
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,800
so we'd love to have you join us for that event.

973
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,680
It's going to have real food meals, outdoor workouts in

974
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,560
between teaching and other sessions. And then I'm on I'm

975
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:43,039
on X. I think my handles like resists is fertile,

976
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,399
so short for resistance is fertile, which is kind of

977
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,720
my my personal life slogan. And then I'm on Facebook

978
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:55,880
when I'm not under ban, which is pretty often on Facebook.

979
01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:02,199
Speaker 1: So yeah, well I appreciate it. I appreciate everything, and

980
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,319
have you back on sometime soon. Yeah, I thank you.

981
01:11:05,319 --> 01:11:07,319
Speaker 2: Great to meet you. I've heard great things about the

982
01:11:07,319 --> 01:11:09,079
work you're doing, so I appreciate you having me.

983
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:12,199
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, John, thank you very much.