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Speaker 1: We've been talking a lot about AI on the show.

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Speaker 2: Last week, we did we did our experiment with Souno

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dot com where we made some tracks, and apparently it

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is even easier than I could have imagined.

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Speaker 3: Too easy, stupid easy. Yeah, like really really too easy.

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If you didn't hear the show last week, seriously, go

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back and listen to it. Yeah, we didn't give it

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a ton, just some basic info and it actually spit

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out some decent music. And it's concerning because how do

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you know that's AI? Right, Like, you need AI to

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find out that it's AI, and then what music did

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they use to learn that? You're right? Yeah, nothing coming

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out of AI. Didn't have a human On the other end,

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they're they're taking all of the art, all of the

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creations from music genres across the spectrum, from artists everywhere,

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throwing that in a computer and having it spit It's

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to me, it's still using other people's work. So that's

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my my. There has to be a way to tell

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the difference between real human creativity and AI.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you go back and listen to last week's show,

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you can check out some of the tracks that we created,

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just with a simple prompt and what it was able

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to spit out. Suno dot Com is a service and

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they're actually they're free. The free version of the service

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is pretty generous. They give you, you know, you can make

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ten songs a month, which might not sound like a lot,

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but some of these services, you know, they they try

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to get you into a free trial and get you

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hooked on it so then you'll be willing to pay

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for it every month.

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Speaker 1: But what Suno does is.

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Speaker 2: The free option that they offer is actually pretty good.

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But if you want to hear, so you can hear.

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What we did live on the air was something we'd

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wanted to get to for a while, just kind of

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an experiment of creating tracks using one of these AI services,

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and we created several and and of course I did

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put the the mc hammer distracts because of course my

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long running feud with mc hammer going back six years now,

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long time listeners, we'll know the six years now. Yes

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we did, uh, I did the po. We ended up

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making four distracts using Souno dot com and I did

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post them all on YouTube as well, so in your

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face Hammer, it's yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: So people did an article recently about Celine Dion uh huh,

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So the AI is crossing all gendres as far as

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what it's doing. But apparently Selene Dion did an Instagram

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post this past Friday. Just yesterday calling out AI and

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saying that her voice has been allegedly used in an

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unsanctioned way that she did not approve of. That it

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sounds like it's her giving a performance, But it's not

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pretty upsetting when you can consider the fact that, I mean,

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for one thing, she's an amazing artist, but this woman

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is going through enough right now without this on top

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of it all. I mean, look, can we just say that,

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because I'm really this upset me to see, of all people,

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you've got to go after somebody who's literally fighting for

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their life. That's pretty down and low and disgusting if

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you ask me, but to quota it said, It has

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come to our attention that unsanctioned AI generated music purporting

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to contain Celine Dion's musical performances and names and likenesses

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excuse me and name and Likeness is currently circulating online

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and across various digital service providers. Please be advised that

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these recordings are fake and not approved, and are not

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songs from her official discography.

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Speaker 2: So we should clarify this because I think I understand

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you know, I only had a chance to glance at

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this before, but I so because my first thought was, well,

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how do you prove that her copyrighted work has been

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used to train these AI models? And then I realized

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that's not exactly what's happening here, right, people are creating

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AI versions and claiming it is her.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay, yeah, this.

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Speaker 3: Is actually they're putting stuff out saying it's her, yeah,

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and it's it's not by any you know, so this

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so she just got blindsided by this.

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Speaker 2: Well you know what this reminds me of. And this

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was over a year ago, I think now that we

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talked about it, somebody created on YouTube they posted an

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AI version of a brand new George Carlin album. Yes,

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remember we talked about that, and and that was interesting.

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We actually played a little bit of it. We played

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the very beginning of it on the show because I'd

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already listened to it, so I knew where the first

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swear was, so I knew how far, how far into

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it I could play because I wanted to give people

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an idea of what it sounded like and very real sound.

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It did sound very real, and not only that, I

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ended up listening to the entire hour. It actually was

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funny too, Like it wasn't like, okay, it sounded like

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his voice, but the jokes were really lame. Like I

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actually laughed listening to that special Which is part of

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why some people at the time were a little bit

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skeptical and probably still are that because the people who

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created it claimed that it was entirely AI generated, but

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some people listened to it and said, hmm, yeah, the

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voice maybe, but some of those jokes, there's no way

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those were written by AI. Those were inserted by who

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ever made it, but who knows. But yeah, you can make.

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Speaker 3: Very realistic That's something that anybody can really say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can make very realistic work with it.

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Speaker 3: That's smart of what you give it. So if you

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fed everything to it of George Carlin, I actually don't

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doubt that it could write George Carlin jokes because it

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would have learned from that. You know, it's a computer.

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What you feed it, Yeah, right, all the bigga ones

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and zeros.

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Speaker 2: But humor is Humor is different though. That's why I'm

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also I'm one of the people who is skeptical but

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who knows.

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Speaker 1: We'll probably never know the truth.

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Speaker 3: I got you, Yeah, but I mean in April of

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last year, there were over two hundred artists that got

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together and created an Artist Writes Alliance, and they sign letters.

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And we're trying to get people to pay attention in

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saying that you know that they want they want laws

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to protect them, and they want AI developers to have

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some freaking morals, I think, and not steal from them,

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because it really is. It's stealing somebody else's are you're

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stealing theon Celene Dion's voice. That's so wrong. It's more

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wrong by because of who they chose to pick on

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as somebody who's literally fighting for their If you don't know,

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Selene Dion has what's called stiff person syndrome. That's why

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she can't perform anymore. It only does so on very

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very rare occasions. It's extraordinarily painful. She suffers immense, just

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chronic every day suffering that you cannot even imagine. And

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that's who they pick. They steal her voice, put music

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out there, claim it's her trying to make money off

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of her.

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Speaker 2: Well, also want to make a clear distinction in here

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again going back to what's really happening in this instance,

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because you know, we've had a lot of conversations about uh,

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generative AI, these large learning models. You know, they suck

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up all this information and all this art, all this

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creativity and then spit out what they spit out. And

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we've we've had conversations debating about whether that's okay or not.

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But this is different in that this because this is

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not there's no there's no ambiguity here, because this is

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fraud if you're creating something, because you can take the

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AI completely out of it. Let's let's say it's just

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somebody who does a really good impression of Selene Deon

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recording a song and then claiming that it is Selene Deon.

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Speaker 1: That's out that's outright fraud.

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Speaker 2: If you create something and then and then and you

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claim it's something that it's not, that's that's fraud. That

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is there's no ambiguity there.

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Speaker 3: But the only differences in this instance, because it's AI,

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they can make it sound just like her. It's not

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just kind of like it's just like you know, because

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computers can imitate everything, right, and these and what the

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Artist Rights Alliance is trying to do is protect each other.

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So when I'm talking about over two hundred, like really

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big names signed onto this, like Billie Irish and and

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She's imagine dragons, Sheryl Crow, Stevie Wonder, a whole lot

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of people, and they they're from their perspective. And I

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want to give this quote because I think it's a

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great quote. They said quote, Unfortunately, some platforms and developers

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are employing AI to sabotage creativity and undermined artists, songwriters,

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musicians and rights holders. And I think that that's a

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very very perfect statement. It is sabotaging their creativity. It's

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theft and fraud to steal somebody else's labors turn it

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into whatever you want to turn it into. You know

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that it's and you know what, Artists have enough problems

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these days making money off their own music. I mean

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talk about that before. What they make less than what

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is it.

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Speaker 1: Whatever Spotify off right, Yeah, it's not even.

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Speaker 3: In the old days, you printed an album you made

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your money off of in part apples sales, album sales,

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and then touring. These days you're making more of your

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money off of touring because you can't make as much

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money off of album sales.

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Speaker 2: Although although what a lot of people don't realize is

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it's kind of it's it's it's uh. In terms of

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trying to earn revenue from streaming, it's kind of a

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worse version of what was already the model, in the

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sense that you never really made that.

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Speaker 1: Much off of album sales. This is something people don't know.

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Speaker 2: And I've given this example before, but I remember when

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I was a kid when I first started to realize,

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because I was fascinated by all you know, all this stuff.

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When I mean AI, we didn't have yet. But when

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I was a kid, I was always very interested in

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the music industry and how it works. And I remember

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reading an interview with meat Loaf and he was talking

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about Back Out of Hell and of course, which by

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now is probably sold and it might be it may

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have surpassed one hundred million at this point, but he

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was talking about how he didn't really make that much money,

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like he said, you know, he got like a quarter

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a quarter, like twenty five cents a quarter per unit sold.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you know, And but that's that's not unusual.

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Speaker 3: Although music didn't get in music how to be transferred

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from one person or another in an album. Yeah, for

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at a cassette. You couldn't just electronically, but it.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't but it wasn't as much. That's why I like

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sometimes every once in a while you'll hear very successful.

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I remember Kurt Cobain, you know, uh, of course he

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took himself away from us very young. But I remember

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when Nirvana first got really big. He made he made

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a comment in an interview about you know, people think

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because we're famous, we're rich, and it's it doesn't work

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that way. He said, you'd be surprised how broke we are.

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And TLC we've talked about that a great example. They

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were triple platinum and broke. The money has always been

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in touring, the big money, and now even touring is

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is as that has become more cost prohibitive. Now the

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money really is in merch and and of course licensing.

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You know, if you license your music, say to a

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for a film or a TV series or something, then

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you can make a lot of money. There's always been

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a lot of money in licensing and that persists.

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Speaker 3: But whatny do you think they make in licensing, Like

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when you're a venue having a license to be able

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to have an artist come in and play certain songs

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venues can't have can only have certain music that they're

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license for. Do they get the artists make money off

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of that or are you really something that Well, yeah,

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it doesn't get them much.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't get them much.

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Speaker 2: I mean those performing rights organizations like as CAP and BMI. Yeah,

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they're supposed to make sure that you get paid. But

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but but for that it's it's yeah, we're not we're

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talking about yeah, Spotify money.

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Speaker 3: The bottom line, it's really hard for artists to be

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able to make money. So they have AI ripping off

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artists voices or you know, creating songs that they didn't

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even sing. Yeah, this is this is not good and

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I I mean, I do believe and I do agree

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with that. I do believe that it does. They are

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correct in saying it's sabotage and creativity. It's stealing creativity.

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It's stealing the life's blood of an artist. You know,

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whatever I put on a piece of canvas came out

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of my me, right.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: You think about when I think about it that way,

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it's like a musician's song is their baby, that's their soul.

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You know what it actually brings up is. I know

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it's slightly off, but when with Wren the artist, Wren

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the rapper Rent he used a piece of music, he

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spent like tune of dollars to buy it, and Kujo

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another rapper or something had ownership over that piece, and

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when he saw Wren made so much money, he went

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and tried to sue him for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what a Yeah, we never really talked about it

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on the show, but yeah, that turned into quite a mess.

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Speaker 3: Oh but the But if you want to hear a

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really great disk track, you got to listen to Wren's

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disk track on Kuja.

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Speaker 2: But that wasn't even even an AI situation. It was

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over a sample was created.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this was trying and in in the disk track

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and what he would say and what Ren would say

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off airs. He's trying to steal my creativity. He's trying

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to steal my creat That song was so personable and

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so much of his own soul and life blood in there.

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To have somebody come along and say that's not your creativity,

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it's mine. From this two second whatever that he bought

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and paid for to use this it's just a sound bite,

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it's just a clip, not the whole song. It didn't,

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you know, it's nothing like that. It's just a particular

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looping sound. Yeah, And he bought and paid for it correctly.

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And this guy, you know, I want money, right, I

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see you making money. I want that money. Trying but

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he Wren said the same thing. You're trying to steal

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my creativity, my creation, and that it so if you

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look at it in all these different situations, it's it is.

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It's stealing the very soul, lifeblood of an artist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah,