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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Inside Edition examines Jeffrey Dahmer. In nineteen seventy eight,

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<v Speaker 1>a killing spree began that continued for more than thirteen

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<v Speaker 1>years and left seventeen men dead. The man behind them

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<v Speaker 1>became known as the Milwaukee Monster. Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety one and was eventually convicted in sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>of those gruesome murders and sentenced to life in prison.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety three, Dahmer granted Inside Edition a jailhouse interview.

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<v Speaker 1>Take a look.

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<v Speaker 2>I desensitize myself to it.

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<v Speaker 3>I I.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I went to great Links.

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<v Speaker 4>He is pure evil, but you'd never know it by

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<v Speaker 4>looking at him. But when you hear him, that's an

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<v Speaker 4>the story. His killing field was Milwaukee, and he got

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<v Speaker 4>away with murder for more than a decade. But how

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<v Speaker 4>could any of this happen? For the first time ever,

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<v Speaker 4>Nancy Glass is here inside the World of Jeffrey Dahmer.

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<v Speaker 5>Bill.

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<v Speaker 3>When I sat down opposite Jeffrey Dahmer for this interview,

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<v Speaker 3>I wondered what he would tell me, how hard it

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<v Speaker 3>would be to get him to discuss his horrific crimes.

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<v Speaker 3>What I found was that he was very forthcoming. He

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<v Speaker 3>volunteered details that may be difficult to hear. I began

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<v Speaker 3>by asking what he wanted from the men he picked up.

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<v Speaker 6>I had these obsessive desires and thoughts, wanting to control

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<v Speaker 6>them to I don't know how to put it, possess

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<v Speaker 6>them permanently. And that's why you killed them right right,

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<v Speaker 6>Not because I was angry with them, not because I

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<v Speaker 6>hated them, but because I wanted to keep them with me.

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<v Speaker 6>And as my obsession grew, I was saving body parts

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<v Speaker 6>such as skulls and skeletons.

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<v Speaker 3>Jeffrey Dahmer is recalling his monstrous past. Almost two years ago,

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<v Speaker 3>in this little apartment in Milwaukee, police discovered the grisly

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<v Speaker 3>remnants of one of the most horrible crime sprees in

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<v Speaker 3>American history. Jeffrey Dahmer, an unassuming chocolate factory worker, would

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<v Speaker 3>eventually confess that he had seduced, murdered, and dismembered seventeen

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<v Speaker 3>young men. He even ate some of his victim's body parts.

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<v Speaker 3>He instantly became the center of worldwide media attention, a

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<v Speaker 3>serial killer unmasked. There were protests and press conferences in

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<v Speaker 3>Milwaukee as people tried to understand how this could have

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<v Speaker 3>happened in their midst How did Jeffrey Dahmer get away

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<v Speaker 3>with murder after murder for thirteen years? How did a

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<v Speaker 3>boy born into a hardworking, middle class family turn into

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<v Speaker 3>the worst kind of monster imaginable? In this exclusive interview,

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<v Speaker 3>we put those questions to Jeffrey Dahmer himself. We met

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<v Speaker 3>with him at the maximum security prison where he is

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<v Speaker 3>serving his sentence of nine hundred and ninety nine years.

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<v Speaker 3>For the first time, he talks about his crimes and

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<v Speaker 3>gives us a chilling look inside the mind of a

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<v Speaker 3>serial killer.

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<v Speaker 6>It's a process. It doesn't happen overnight. When you depersonalize

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<v Speaker 6>another person and view them as just an object, an

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<v Speaker 6>object for pleasure, instead of a living, breathing human being,

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<v Speaker 6>it seems to make it easier to do things you

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<v Speaker 6>shouldn't do.

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<v Speaker 3>The reason why Jeffrey Dahmer was able to get away

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<v Speaker 3>with his crimes was because of just what you are

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<v Speaker 3>seeing here. Jeffrey Dahmer is intelligent and articulate. That is

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<v Speaker 3>what makes him so frightening. But if you listen carefully

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<v Speaker 3>to his words throughout this interview, you realize it is

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<v Speaker 3>a thin disguise. You do sound, though, like the kind

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<v Speaker 3>of person who could have said to himself, this is wrong,

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<v Speaker 3>I must stop.

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<v Speaker 6>I always knew that it was wrong, but after the

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<v Speaker 6>first the first killing was not planned. I was coming

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<v Speaker 6>back from the shopping mall back in seventy eight. I

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<v Speaker 6>had had fantasies about picking up a hitchhiker and taking

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<v Speaker 6>him back to the house and having complete control and

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<v Speaker 6>dominance over him.

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<v Speaker 3>The hitchhiker's name was Stephen Hicks.

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<v Speaker 7>He was just eighteen.

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<v Speaker 3>Jeffrey Dahmer took him to his parents' house. There he

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<v Speaker 3>strangled with a bar belt. He dismembered the body and

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<v Speaker 3>hid it in a drain pipe. It was Jeffrey Dahmer

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<v Speaker 3>who gave those details to the police in his confession.

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<v Speaker 6>No one had a clue as to what was happening

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<v Speaker 6>for over a decade.

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<v Speaker 3>During that time, Jeffrey Dahmer joined the army and was

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<v Speaker 3>sent to Germany. He was eventually discharged for a drinking

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<v Speaker 3>problem and returned to Ohio. Nine years after Stephen hicks murder,

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<v Speaker 3>the killing began again. What happened to you in the

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<v Speaker 3>nine years in between, that you were able to stop,

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<v Speaker 3>that you were able to control yourself.

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<v Speaker 6>Just wasn't an opportunity to fully express what I wanted

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<v Speaker 6>to do. There was just not the physical opportunity to

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<v Speaker 6>do it then. And I started when I moved to

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<v Speaker 6>Milwaukee in eighty one. I started reading pornography, going to

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<v Speaker 6>the bookstores. Eventually that led to frequenting the gay bars,

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<v Speaker 6>and then I one time I brought this young man

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<v Speaker 6>back to the hotel room the Ambassador Hotel, was just

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<v Speaker 6>planning on drugging him and spending the night with him.

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<v Speaker 6>Had no intention of hurting him. When I woke up

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<v Speaker 6>in the morning, he had a broken rib. Here I

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<v Speaker 6>was heavily bruised. Apparently I had beaten him to death

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<v Speaker 6>with my fists. And you have no memory, no memory

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<v Speaker 6>of it. But that's what started the whole spree all

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<v Speaker 6>over again.

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<v Speaker 3>Dahmer says he snuck the corpse of his victim, Stephen Toomey,

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<v Speaker 3>out of his hotel room in a suitcase. Then he

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<v Speaker 3>took it to his grandmother's house, where he cut up

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<v Speaker 3>the body and put it in plastic garbage bags. When

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<v Speaker 3>you killed the man afterwards, were you repulsed?

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<v Speaker 8>Were you upset? No?

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<v Speaker 6>It the time, it was almost addictive. It was almost

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<v Speaker 6>a surge of energy. I wouldn't have to worry about.

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<v Speaker 2>Any of their needs or anything. I just had complete

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<v Speaker 2>control of the situation.

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<v Speaker 3>But Jeffrey Dahmer was out of control. The urge to

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<v Speaker 3>kill had overpowered him. As police later learned, he wasn't

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<v Speaker 3>satisfied with his victim's death. He wanted more. Why did

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<v Speaker 3>you photograph them?

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<v Speaker 6>It was my way of remembering their appearance, their physical beauty.

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<v Speaker 6>I also wanted to keep.

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<v Speaker 2>Something.

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<v Speaker 6>If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at

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<v Speaker 6>least I felt that I could keep their skeletons. And

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<v Speaker 6>I even went so far as planning on up an

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<v Speaker 6>altar with the ten different skulls and skeletons.

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<v Speaker 8>And what was the purpose of the altar going to be?

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<v Speaker 2>As a sort of memorial a point where I could

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. It's so bizarre and strange.

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<v Speaker 6>It's hard to describe a place where I could collect

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<v Speaker 6>my thoughts.

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<v Speaker 2>And feed my obsession.

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<v Speaker 3>When the bodies were still in your apartment, there was

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<v Speaker 3>no time when you would see them and say, this

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<v Speaker 3>is grotesque, what have I done?

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<v Speaker 6>There were times, There were times, but the compulsive obsession

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<v Speaker 6>with doing what I was doing overpowered any feelings of revulsion.

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<v Speaker 3>This man, with a quiet, almost shy demeanor, became a

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<v Speaker 3>master manipulator who was able to strangers he met at

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<v Speaker 3>gay bars to his apartment. He was even able to

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<v Speaker 3>calm the police into returning a fourteen year old boy

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<v Speaker 3>to him after neighbors called nine to one one upset

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<v Speaker 3>that the child was in the street naked and bleeding.

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<v Speaker 3>Dahmer convinced the police that he and the boy were

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<v Speaker 3>simply having a lover's quarrel.

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<v Speaker 1>And they untoxicated boyfriend of another boyfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>How was this child was?

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<v Speaker 3>After the police left, Jeffrey Dahmer murdered that boy. Conorrac

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<v Speaker 3>synthes some phone. This man says he had a near

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<v Speaker 3>fatal encounter with Jeffrey Dahmer.

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<v Speaker 2>You want to take some picture of my back?

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<v Speaker 8>He hear me with a robber hammer on my neck.

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<v Speaker 3>He was lucky to escape because by then the killing

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<v Speaker 3>had become almost routine. Before you went out to pick

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<v Speaker 3>up the man, was there any kind of ritual you

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<v Speaker 3>went through.

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<v Speaker 6>I go to the nightclubs, drink, watch the uh the strip,

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<v Speaker 6>tea shows, and if I didn't meet anyone at the bars,

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<v Speaker 6>I'd go to the bath clubs and meet someone there,

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<v Speaker 6>offer them money, and we'd go back to the apartment.

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<v Speaker 2>Have a few drinks.

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<v Speaker 6>I'd have the sleeping pill mixture already prepared, a person

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<v Speaker 6>would drink it, fall asleep, and that's when they would

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<v Speaker 6>be strangled.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break, there was more to Jeffrey Dahmer's murder ritual.

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<v Speaker 1>A specific movie would often get him going. We'll hear

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<v Speaker 1>more from Dahmer himself. Stay with us, Welcome back to

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<v Speaker 1>Inside Edition examines Jeffrey Dahmer. Before the Break, we heard

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<v Speaker 1>Dahmer talk about the ritual he went through before each killing.

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<v Speaker 1>There was another part to this, and it might surprise you.

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<v Speaker 3>Watching the movie Exorcist three was also part of his ritual.

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<v Speaker 3>It put him in the mood for murder.

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<v Speaker 2>I felt so hopelessly.

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<v Speaker 6>Evil and perverted that that I actually derives a sort

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<v Speaker 6>of pleasure from watching that tape.

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<v Speaker 8>Did you like feeling evil?

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<v Speaker 2>No? No, I didn't.

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<v Speaker 6>But I tried to overcome the thoughts and it worked

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<v Speaker 6>for a while, but eventually I gave in.

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<v Speaker 3>While Jeffrey Dahmer may say things today that make it

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<v Speaker 3>seem like he understands what went on in his mind,

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<v Speaker 3>he does not. All he can do is tell you

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<v Speaker 3>what happened, but he cannot stop whatever it is that

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<v Speaker 3>drove him to kill in the first place. Do you

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<v Speaker 3>still feel those same urges? Do you still feel that compulsion,

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<v Speaker 3>that obsession.

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<v Speaker 6>I wish I could say that it just left completely,

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<v Speaker 6>but no, there are times when I still still do

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<v Speaker 6>have the old compulsions.

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<v Speaker 3>Jeffrey Dahmer says as time went on, his mind became

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<v Speaker 3>more and more warped, and yet he was clever enough

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<v Speaker 3>to continue to elude police and lure young men to

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<v Speaker 3>his apartment. We should warn you the details are very graphic.

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<v Speaker 6>I started having these obsessive thoughts when I was about

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<v Speaker 6>fifteen and sixteen, and they got worse and worse.

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<v Speaker 8>What were your fantasies about?

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<v Speaker 6>They were sexual fantasies of control, power, complete dominance.

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<v Speaker 2>They became reality.

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<v Speaker 8>Was there pleasure in that fantasy?

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<v Speaker 6>There was excitement, fear, pleasure all mixed together.

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<v Speaker 3>Jeffrey Dahmer fulfilled his fantasies, murdering and dismembering seventeen young men.

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<v Speaker 3>In time, his desires became more extreme, his deeds more grotesque.

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<v Speaker 3>Listen to him talk about the most unnatural things in

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<v Speaker 3>the most matter of fact of ways. That's when you

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<v Speaker 3>realize that none of it has touched him.

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<v Speaker 6>I was branching out. That's when the cannibalism started, eating

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<v Speaker 6>of the heart and the arm muscle. It was a

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<v Speaker 6>way of making me feel that they were a part

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<v Speaker 6>of me. At first, it was just curiosity, and then

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<v Speaker 6>it became compulsive. Then I tried to keep the person

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<v Speaker 6>alive by inducing a zombie like state by injecting first

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<v Speaker 6>dilute acid solution into their brain hot water, and it

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<v Speaker 6>never did completely work.

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<v Speaker 8>Could someone like you be stopped? Could you be helped?

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<v Speaker 2>No? I was.

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<v Speaker 6>I was dead set on going with this compulsion. It

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<v Speaker 6>was the only thing that gave me any any satisfaction.

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<v Speaker 3>He became so warped by his evil impulses that he

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<v Speaker 3>even took a victim's head with him to work at

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<v Speaker 3>the Ambrosia Chocolate factory.

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<v Speaker 2>I kept the.

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<v Speaker 6>Mummified head and skull of one of the victims in

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<v Speaker 6>a carrying case in my locker at work.

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<v Speaker 8>Were you almost flaunting it?

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<v Speaker 6>Yes, But that's how strong the compulsion was, That's how

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<v Speaker 6>bizarre the desire was. I wanted to keep something of

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<v Speaker 6>the person with me.

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<v Speaker 3>Jeffrey Dahmer exhibited some disturbing behavior early on. He began

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<v Speaker 3>drinking as a teenager, dropped out of college, was arrested

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<v Speaker 3>for indecent exposure, disorderly conduct, and fondling a thirteen year

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<v Speaker 3>old boy. Tragically, one of his murder victims would be

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<v Speaker 3>that boy's brother. Do you know what started it? Was

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<v Speaker 3>there any kind of incident that you can remember.

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<v Speaker 2>To this day.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't know what started it. And the person to

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<v Speaker 6>blame is sitting right across from you. That's the only person.

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<v Speaker 6>Not parents, not society, not pornography. I mean, those are

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<v Speaker 6>just excuses.

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<v Speaker 3>His Macarb thirteen year crime spray finally ended when this man,

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<v Speaker 3>Tracy Edwards, brought the police to the infamous apartment. Like

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<v Speaker 3>the others, he had gone there with the promise of money.

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<v Speaker 9>He was listening to my heart because at a point

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<v Speaker 9>he told me he was going to eat my heart.

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<v Speaker 2>At that point I hit him and Iran.

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<v Speaker 3>What was the turning point for you that made you

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<v Speaker 3>suddenly realize that you had done something terribly wrong, something

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<v Speaker 3>you should be sorry for.

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<v Speaker 6>It was the night of the arrest. I have no

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<v Speaker 6>memory of what happened during the six hours before the

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<v Speaker 6>last victim ran out of the apartment. They heard a

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<v Speaker 6>knock on the door and the police were there with

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<v Speaker 6>the last victim. They asked me where the key was

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<v Speaker 6>to the handcuffs. I my mind was in a haze.

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<v Speaker 6>I sort of pointed to the bedroom and that's where

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<v Speaker 6>they found the pictures, and then they yelled cuff them.

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<v Speaker 6>I was handcuffed, and it was just the realization that

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<v Speaker 6>there was no point in trying to hide hide my

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<v Speaker 6>actions anymore. The best route was to help the police

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<v Speaker 6>identify all the victims and just make a complete confession.

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<v Speaker 3>When it was revealed that most of the victims were

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<v Speaker 3>black or homosexual people, the meal were incensed. Many felt

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<v Speaker 3>that was why he went after them and why the

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<v Speaker 3>police didn't seem to care when their families reported them missing.

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<v Speaker 3>Ten of your seventeen victims were black. Were they racially motivated?

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<v Speaker 6>It was not racially motivated. It was not a sexual preference.

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<v Speaker 6>It was just to find an obsession with the best

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<v Speaker 6>looking young man I could find.

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<v Speaker 3>While you just heard him say that his sexual preference

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<v Speaker 3>had nothing to do with the killings, he has not

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<v Speaker 3>come to terms with his homosexuality.

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<v Speaker 2>Never understood it.

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<v Speaker 6>There was no use trying to fight it because I

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<v Speaker 6>couldn't rid myself of it. It was it was too

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<v Speaker 6>powerful and persistent.

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<v Speaker 8>Do you dislike it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, It's caused.

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<v Speaker 6>A lot of problems for me, a lot of conflicts

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<v Speaker 6>and unanswered questions.

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<v Speaker 3>The conflicts remain with him, and so do his compulsions,

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<v Speaker 3>but in prison, he finally cannot act on his savage desires.

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<v Speaker 3>You were out on the street, now, would you still

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<v Speaker 3>be committing the crimes?

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<v Speaker 6>Probably if this hadn't happened, There's no doubt I probably

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<v Speaker 6>would be.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't think of anything that would have stopped me.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up after the break. Some rarely seen footage from

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<v Speaker 1>this interview stay with us.

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<v Speaker 10>It's Jeffrey Dahmer, the serial killer and cannibal who Saga

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<v Speaker 10>of Evil has been given new life in the hit

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<v Speaker 10>Netflix series Monster.

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<v Speaker 8>I'm going to ask you some questions that are tough.

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<v Speaker 10>It is never before seen video from the Inside Edition archives.

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<v Speaker 10>He's clearly nervous. His hands won't stay still as he

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<v Speaker 10>prepares for the exclusive nineteen ninety three interviews. What questions

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<v Speaker 10>A new generation is learning about his horrifying crimes through

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<v Speaker 10>the number one Netflix series.

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<v Speaker 11>What appears to be a psychopathic mass Morko Clear.

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<v Speaker 10>This world exclusive interview took place inside the maximum security

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<v Speaker 10>prison in Wisconsin, where he was serving nine hundred and

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<v Speaker 10>ninety nine years. He was escorted by three prison guards.

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<v Speaker 10>One officer held each arm as he was taken in

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<v Speaker 10>handcuffs into an elevator. Nobody was taking any chances with

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<v Speaker 10>the most notorious killer in America. Dahmer was thirty three

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<v Speaker 10>when he told Nancy Glass about his twisted motive for

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<v Speaker 10>killing seventeen men.

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<v Speaker 6>Not because I was angry with them, not because I

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<v Speaker 6>hated them, but because I wanted to keep them with me.

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<v Speaker 6>And as my obsession grew, I was saving body parts

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<v Speaker 6>such as skulls and skeletons, and eventually I did turn

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<v Speaker 6>to cannibalism.

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<v Speaker 10>He described how he picked up his victims in gay

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<v Speaker 10>bars and brought them home.

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<v Speaker 6>I'd have the sleeping pill mixture already prepared, a person

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<v Speaker 6>would drink it, fall asleep, and that's when they would

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<v Speaker 6>be strangled.

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<v Speaker 10>And he made a startling admission about the evil urges

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<v Speaker 10>that propelled him to kill.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you still feel those same urges? Do you still

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<v Speaker 3>feel that compulsion, that obsession?

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<v Speaker 6>I wish I could say that it just left completely.

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<v Speaker 6>But no, there are times when I still do, still

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<v Speaker 6>do have the old compulsions.

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<v Speaker 10>A creature of the night. He said he slept most

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<v Speaker 10>of the day in prison. During the interview, he asked

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<v Speaker 10>for several breaks.

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<v Speaker 2>Can we cut the film here for him?

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<v Speaker 12>Sure?

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<v Speaker 10>Dahmer was murdered by another prison inmate just a year

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<v Speaker 10>and ten months after this interview. A form of justice,

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<v Speaker 10>he said, he deserved.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I deserve. I deserve death.

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<v Speaker 1>Dahmer was beaten to death by another inmate while they

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<v Speaker 1>were on cleaning duty.

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<v Speaker 13>Coming up.

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<v Speaker 1>The families of dahmer victims speak out about the Netflix

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<v Speaker 1>movie about the killings, saying it triggers horrible memories.

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<v Speaker 14>The number one show on Netflix this weekend was the

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<v Speaker 14>mini series on murderer Jeffrey Dahmer. The film reopened some

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<v Speaker 14>old wounds for some of Dahmer's victims and his Amricogliano reports.

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<v Speaker 14>Some say the impact of the movie is heightened by

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<v Speaker 14>the incredible resemblance between the real life killer and the

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<v Speaker 14>actor proof portrays him.

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<v Speaker 15>It's the face of evil reborn. These are scenes from

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<v Speaker 15>the new Netflix drama about serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer.

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<v Speaker 2>Make Me Do Things I don't want to do.

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<v Speaker 15>Actor Evan Peters plays the infamous cannibal killer. This is

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<v Speaker 15>the actor and this is the monstrous Dahmer. Dahmer, a

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<v Speaker 15>chocolate factory worker, lured unsuspecting young men to his Milwaukee apartment,

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<v Speaker 15>where he drugged and strangled them. He dismembered his victims

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<v Speaker 15>and ate their body parts. Dahmer's bloody history finally came

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<v Speaker 15>to an end when a young man he had targeted

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<v Speaker 15>for death escaped the killer's apartment and alerted cops. Dahmer

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<v Speaker 15>was arrested and confessed to seventeen killings.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew I was sick, were evil.

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<v Speaker 3>We're both at his sentencing.

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<v Speaker 15>The disgust he inspired in one victim's sister irerupted. Inside

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<v Speaker 15>Edition aired a world exclusive interview with Dahmer in nineteen

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<v Speaker 15>ninety three at the maximum security prison where he was

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<v Speaker 15>serving nine hundred and ninety nine years.

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<v Speaker 6>Eating of the heart and the arm muscle. It was

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<v Speaker 6>a way of making me feel that they were a

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<v Speaker 6>part of me.

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<v Speaker 15>Now, the new Netflix series is bringing memories of Dahmer's

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<v Speaker 15>vile deeds flooding back. Preston Davis narrowly escaped death at

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<v Speaker 15>Dahmer's hands when they were in the army together and

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<v Speaker 15>Dahmer sexually assaulted him. Davis, now sixty three, has watched

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<v Speaker 15>the Netflix series.

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<v Speaker 7>How was that for you watching?

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<v Speaker 10>I think they did a good job.

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<v Speaker 16>It didn't trigger me.

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<v Speaker 17>I've gotten better through therapy.

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<v Speaker 10>I felt more sympathy or empathy for the victims' families.

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<v Speaker 15>Billy Joe Capshaw was also sexually assaulted by Dahmer in

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<v Speaker 15>the army.

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<v Speaker 3>Does it bring back all of these horrible memories?

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<v Speaker 13>Yes, it does. I have been through hell because of

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<v Speaker 13>this one person.

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<v Speaker 16>I'm gonna keep the language clean.

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<v Speaker 15>The woman who vented her anger on Dahmer watched the

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<v Speaker 15>show's recreation of that moment and says it felt like

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<v Speaker 15>reliving it all over again. It brought back all the

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<v Speaker 15>emotions I was feeling back then. In our nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 15>three interview, Dahmer made this confession.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no question that I deserved the death penalty.

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<v Speaker 15>In a sense. He got his way. He was bludgeoned

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<v Speaker 15>to death by another He was an inmate in nineteen

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<v Speaker 15>ninety four, but in the Netflix series He Lives Again.

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<v Speaker 14>Dahmer was thirty four years old when he was killed

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<v Speaker 14>in prison.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, The father of Jeffrey Dahmer dies will tell

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<v Speaker 1>you about his complicated feelings regarding his son. The father

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<v Speaker 1>of notorious serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer has died. Reports say

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<v Speaker 1>Lionel Dahmer died in hospice care in Ohio.

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<v Speaker 8>He was eighty seven.

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<v Speaker 1>Lionel was a fierce defender of his son, even after

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<v Speaker 1>his crimes were discovered. He even appeared alongside Jeffrey in

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<v Speaker 1>a jailhouse interview with MSNBC.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the first time you're talking about these things.

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<v Speaker 6>You talk your dad here at great length with a psychiatrist,

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<v Speaker 6>court appointed psychiatrist, psychologist.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, but not with my family. We learned everything at the.

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<v Speaker 6>Trial and then the confessions and that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>After the fact, Lionel and his wife Sharry spoke with

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Phil about some of the disturbing behaviors Jeffrey exhibited

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<v Speaker 1>as a child.

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<v Speaker 10>If your kid is going around collecting dead animals, cutting

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<v Speaker 10>them open and exploring them and that sort of thing, that,

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<v Speaker 10>how do you not know that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well?

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<v Speaker 6>As I said, it's heavily wooded, very rough terrain, and

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<v Speaker 6>there are a lot of hiding places.

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<v Speaker 2>He was extremely secreted.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety four, Lionel published a book titled A

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<v Speaker 1>Father's Story that tried to make sense of his son's crimes.

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<v Speaker 1>That same year, Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in Wisconsin prison

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<v Speaker 1>by a fellow in mate. A report says that Lionel

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<v Speaker 1>Dahmer was still angry about the killing decades after it happened.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, we'll talk with more family members of serial

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<v Speaker 1>killers and here how they dealt with the knowledge of

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<v Speaker 1>the horrific crimes.

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<v Speaker 7>These people were loved ones of serial killers. From twenty

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<v Speaker 7>twenty two, this brave nurse stopped the man who may

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<v Speaker 7>have been America's most prolific serial killer.

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<v Speaker 17>He murdered people right in front of me.

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<v Speaker 7>Amy Lockran worked alongside Charles Collen for a year and

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<v Speaker 7>a half at a hospital in New Jersey. They became

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<v Speaker 7>close friends. She never suspected anything until police confidentially showed

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<v Speaker 7>her evidence that he was injecting patients with legal doses

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<v Speaker 7>of drugs.

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<v Speaker 17>The medications he used were brutal medications. Medications, for instance,

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<v Speaker 17>that are paralytics that you cannot speak, you cannot breathe,

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<v Speaker 17>you cannot fight back, you cannot blink, you can hear everything,

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<v Speaker 17>that's happening.

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<v Speaker 7>Investigators asked Amy to use her friendship with Cullen to

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<v Speaker 7>get him to confess. She told Jim murriy.

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<v Speaker 10>Did you actually wear a wire? To help get him

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<v Speaker 10>to confess?

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<v Speaker 16>I did.

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<v Speaker 7>They suspected Colin's murderous crime. Speed began in the late

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<v Speaker 7>nineteen eighties. Netflix turned Nurse Amy's story into a movie,

433
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.119
<v Speaker 7>The Good Nurse. Jessica Chastain plays Amy, Eddie Redmay plays

434
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:22.960
<v Speaker 7>the serial killer.

435
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:24.480
<v Speaker 2>What he need me to do.

436
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:26.440
<v Speaker 7>Now?

437
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:31.000
<v Speaker 10>The US Charles Collen pleaded guilty to murdering twenty nine people.

438
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:34.319
<v Speaker 10>How many people do you suspect he actually murdered?

439
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:38.880
<v Speaker 17>It's well into the hundreds of How many people he

440
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:44.839
<v Speaker 17>not only tried to kill but probably did murder around

441
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:45.519
<v Speaker 17>four hundred?

442
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:48.880
<v Speaker 10>So how did this monster evade justice for so long?

443
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:53.240
<v Speaker 10>Amy Loughran says Colin moved from hospital to hospital, maintaining

444
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:55.279
<v Speaker 10>his cover as a caring nurse.

445
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:59.160
<v Speaker 7>For much of her life. Sierra Barter had suspicions that

446
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.200
<v Speaker 7>her family history held a monstrous secret. Whatever relatives might

447
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:04.640
<v Speaker 7>have been a serial killer.

448
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:05.279
<v Speaker 3>Here's the reality.

449
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:08.359
<v Speaker 18>Somebody's grandpa was the serial killer?

450
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:09.400
<v Speaker 3>Was it mine?

451
00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:13.000
<v Speaker 18>I don't know, but Somebody's Grandpa was.

452
00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:16.799
<v Speaker 7>Her mission to find answers about her step grandfather was

453
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:20.079
<v Speaker 7>the topic of the documentary series The Truth About Jim,

454
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:21.359
<v Speaker 7>streaming on Max.

455
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:26.319
<v Speaker 18>What I'm trying to understand is like, who was Jim?

456
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:31.559
<v Speaker 19>Started out as normal seeming relationship and it just kept

457
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:32.960
<v Speaker 19>getting more bizarre.

458
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:36.559
<v Speaker 7>Jim Mordecai was a well respected high school teacher in

459
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:40.200
<v Speaker 7>northern California, but to his family, he was a predator

460
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.559
<v Speaker 7>with an alleged history of sexual and physical violence against

461
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:44.720
<v Speaker 7>women and girls.

462
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:47.559
<v Speaker 20>He either was the most charming man you were ever

463
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:50.359
<v Speaker 20>going to meet, or he was your worst nightmare.

464
00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:54.480
<v Speaker 7>While Sierra tried to uncover who Jim Mordechai was, clues

465
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:57.200
<v Speaker 7>led her to believe he may have been the notorious

466
00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:58.119
<v Speaker 7>Zodiac Killer.

467
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.480
<v Speaker 18>Zodiac had like a stalky, athletic build. Jim was very stocky,

468
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:05.559
<v Speaker 18>very athletic. The shoe print they found was a ten

469
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:08.880
<v Speaker 18>and a half. Jim wore size ten and a half.

470
00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:12.519
<v Speaker 7>The Zodiac Killer was never caught, he claimed responsibility for

471
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:16.480
<v Speaker 7>over thirty murders in Northern California in the late nineteen sixties.

472
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.680
<v Speaker 20>The similarities that Sierra was able to find between Jim

473
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:23.240
<v Speaker 20>and the Zodiac killer were locations they often went to

474
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:23.880
<v Speaker 20>the same place.

475
00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:27.680
<v Speaker 7>Director sky Borgmann says that Sierra's journey ultimately leads to

476
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:29.119
<v Speaker 7>some closure for her family.

477
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.359
<v Speaker 20>First and foremost, it's about generational trauma and how three

478
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:36.799
<v Speaker 20>generations of women are dealing with generational trauma, and how

479
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.519
<v Speaker 20>they all feel that Jim could have done more than

480
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:40.480
<v Speaker 20>what they know he did.

481
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.000
<v Speaker 7>Joseph James DiAngelo Junior is known to the world as

482
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.119
<v Speaker 7>the Golden State Killer. In twenty twenty, his brother in

483
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:51.839
<v Speaker 7>law forty years James Huddle, spoke about him to Jim Murray.

484
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:55.160
<v Speaker 10>He was married to your sister, Yes, and you never

485
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:57.039
<v Speaker 10>had an inkling of what he was.

486
00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:04.599
<v Speaker 16>Nope, he kept there to himself, quite certain that no

487
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:06.119
<v Speaker 16>one else in the family knew either.

488
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:09.759
<v Speaker 10>Huddle's sister, Sharon, got married to DiAngelo in nineteen seventy three.

489
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:12.920
<v Speaker 10>The family thought he was quite a catch, handsome, a

490
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.920
<v Speaker 10>respected cop with the Exeter, California Police Department. But looking back,

491
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.400
<v Speaker 10>there were telltale signs that something wasn't right.

492
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.680
<v Speaker 7>For instance, d'angelo's interest in slasher movies like the Texas

493
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:26.720
<v Speaker 7>Jamesaw Massacre.

494
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:31.039
<v Speaker 16>Wow, you know the excitement involved in his face and

495
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:34.000
<v Speaker 16>his clenched teeth at this horrific scene on TV.

496
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:36.799
<v Speaker 10>So when he would watch these horror movies, you saw

497
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:38.200
<v Speaker 10>him get physically excited.

498
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.920
<v Speaker 7>Yes, like a movie villain. D'Angelo would taunt his victims

499
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:51.799
<v Speaker 7>over the phone. D'Angelo has three daughters from his marriage

500
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:52.559
<v Speaker 7>to Huddle's sister.

501
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:55.799
<v Speaker 16>They lost their father in a way, they really did.

502
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:56.960
<v Speaker 13>I mean, he changed.

503
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:02.160
<v Speaker 16>From this wonderful dad to them to this horrible person.

504
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:06.279
<v Speaker 7>D'Angelo confessed to thirteen killings in almost fifty rapes. There

505
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:08.960
<v Speaker 7>were so many victims in their families, authorities had to

506
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:10.519
<v Speaker 7>conduct the hearing in a ballroom.

507
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:13.359
<v Speaker 17>He is the real life version of Hannibal Lecter.

508
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:16.839
<v Speaker 16>The detail just made me just cringe all the more

509
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:21.240
<v Speaker 16>and feel the sorrow I felt for those victims. There's

510
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:21.720
<v Speaker 16>so many.

511
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:24.880
<v Speaker 7>Huddle wrote a book, Killers Keep Secrets, in which he

512
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:28.319
<v Speaker 7>lays bare his family's shock at learning the truth about

513
00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:29.960
<v Speaker 7>the monster in their midst.

514
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 16>I became outraged at what he had done. Sure even

515
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:36.680
<v Speaker 16>more outraged last night when I reviewed the hearing.

516
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:39.240
<v Speaker 7>D'angelo's former fiance spoke out as well.

517
00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:43.039
<v Speaker 21>I got out of it. But to be engaged to him, ever,

518
00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:45.759
<v Speaker 21>is I regret.

519
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:49.480
<v Speaker 7>I'll always have Bonnie Caldwell was engaged to Joseph DiAngelo

520
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:51.720
<v Speaker 7>in the early nineteen seventies at eighteen.

521
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:56.319
<v Speaker 21>He was my first long term relationship. I didn't have

522
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:00.880
<v Speaker 21>dating experience. It started off, are you lighthearted?

523
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.519
<v Speaker 7>Jim Murray has more?

524
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:05.640
<v Speaker 10>But Bonnie broke off the engagement when she found out

525
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:08.640
<v Speaker 10>how scary D'Angelo could be. He did not take the

526
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.279
<v Speaker 10>rejection well. He actually tried to abduct her at gunpoint

527
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.200
<v Speaker 10>so he could take her to Nevada and force her

528
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:15.920
<v Speaker 10>to marry him.

529
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:18.480
<v Speaker 21>He said, get dressed, we're going to Reno. We're going

530
00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:22.359
<v Speaker 21>to get married tonight. Now I know that he's more

531
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.559
<v Speaker 21>than capable of using a gun to kill someone.

532
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:29.440
<v Speaker 7>D'angelo's hatred of Bonnie was unmistakable when he launched his

533
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:32.880
<v Speaker 7>monstrous thirteen year long crime spree. One of the victims,

534
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:36.559
<v Speaker 7>says D'Angelo repeatedly sped out, I hate you Bonnie as

535
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:37.160
<v Speaker 7>he raped her.

536
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:38.440
<v Speaker 17>Take your mask off.

537
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:41.200
<v Speaker 7>In court, fifty years after she broke up with him,

538
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:44.839
<v Speaker 7>Bonnie refilled her face. She wasn't allowed to speak since

539
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:48.279
<v Speaker 7>she was technically not a victim of d'angelo's crimes. Her

540
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:53.160
<v Speaker 7>friend D'Angelo rape survivor, Jeane Carlson, Sandler spoke on her behalf.

541
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:56.519
<v Speaker 7>Even a gun pointed at her face could not make

542
00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:57.359
<v Speaker 7>her choose you.

543
00:32:57.920 --> 00:32:59.440
<v Speaker 17>I don't think the man has a soul.

544
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Stay with us. After the break, we'll hear from a

545
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:05.119
<v Speaker 1>woman who was engaged to one of the country's most

546
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:20.720
<v Speaker 1>notorious serial killers and she had no idea.

547
00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:24.680
<v Speaker 7>In twenty seventeen, this woman had no idea that the

548
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:26.799
<v Speaker 7>man she was having an affair with was one of

549
00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:29.160
<v Speaker 7>America's most notorious serial killers.

550
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:33.359
<v Speaker 22>There was always something that sat uneasy with me about him,

551
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:35.559
<v Speaker 22>and I just really couldn't put my finger on it.

552
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:38.119
<v Speaker 7>Holly Udy is still coming to terms with the terrifying

553
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:40.079
<v Speaker 7>trail of death left by the man she was in

554
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:43.599
<v Speaker 7>love with for ten years. Todd koleip He was arrested

555
00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:47.440
<v Speaker 7>in twenty sixteen after a woman he kidnapped was found

556
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:50.000
<v Speaker 7>chained by the neck inside of a storage container on

557
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.279
<v Speaker 7>his property. Hey, we're gonna get you out of there, Okay,

558
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:53.279
<v Speaker 7>it's just disgusting.

559
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:55.839
<v Speaker 22>I mean it was sickening. He gave me a lot

560
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:59.920
<v Speaker 22>of attention and he made me feel like I was important.

561
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:02.279
<v Speaker 7>Holly meant Cole up in two thousand and six and

562
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:05.480
<v Speaker 7>started an affair. She never suspected that he had already

563
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:10.480
<v Speaker 7>murdered four people. Holly actually loaned call Up the money

564
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:14.119
<v Speaker 7>to buy the container. Megan Alexander has more coal.

565
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.000
<v Speaker 11>Help told Holly that he needed the container to store supplies.

566
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:20.199
<v Speaker 11>He had it delivered here to this remote property he

567
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:25.039
<v Speaker 11>owned ninety five acres of mostly dense forest, miles from civilization.

568
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:27.880
<v Speaker 11>He put shelving in it and stalked it with canned

569
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:28.480
<v Speaker 11>food and.

570
00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:29.320
<v Speaker 3>Cases of water.

571
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.519
<v Speaker 11>Holly couldn't have known that he was turning the container

572
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:36.360
<v Speaker 11>she helped him buy into a prison. That container was

573
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.559
<v Speaker 11>way way back there.

574
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:38.000
<v Speaker 9>In the woods.

575
00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:39.320
<v Speaker 22>The container was right here.

576
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 11>I mean that is completely surrounded by woods. You can't

577
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:47.119
<v Speaker 11>hear anything if you're back here. She was completely isolated. Yes,

578
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:51.159
<v Speaker 11>you actually went into the container. Yes, were you suspicious

579
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:52.280
<v Speaker 11>at all when you were in there?

580
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:55.280
<v Speaker 22>No, it was simply storage.

581
00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:56.960
<v Speaker 14>It was all storage.

582
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.159
<v Speaker 11>Did you ever notice anything the way he was arranging it?

583
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:02.320
<v Speaker 11>About what it was going to be used for in

584
00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:02.840
<v Speaker 11>the future.

585
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:03.320
<v Speaker 8>Now.

586
00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:06.920
<v Speaker 7>When cops rescued Kayler Brown in the storage container, she

587
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.840
<v Speaker 7>told him what Colp had done to her boyfriend, Charlie Carver.

588
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.320
<v Speaker 7>Todd Cob Charlie Carver three times in.

589
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:15.320
<v Speaker 3>The chest, wrapped him in a blue tart, put him

590
00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:17.119
<v Speaker 3>in the bucket of the factor.

591
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.880
<v Speaker 7>He says he's dead and buryed. As Kayler rolle to

592
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:23.400
<v Speaker 7>the hospital, she made this stunning statement, some girl named

593
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:25.519
<v Speaker 7>Holly supposedly planning Nickille.

594
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:28.800
<v Speaker 22>My mouth fell open. The first time I heard it,

595
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:31.440
<v Speaker 22>I stopped and I rewind and I listened to it again.

596
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:34.559
<v Speaker 23>Some girl named Holly supposedly planning Nickilling.

597
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:36.719
<v Speaker 22>Yes, she did just say my name. She just said

598
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.679
<v Speaker 22>my name. It's overwhelming looking at it and trying to

599
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:42.480
<v Speaker 22>put myself in Kayla's shoes. I know I wouldn't have survived.

600
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:46.760
<v Speaker 7>I know I wouldn't have. The notorious serial killer known

601
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.320
<v Speaker 7>as BTK is this woman's father.

602
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:53.039
<v Speaker 5>I had to cut him off. It hurts. I love

603
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:53.639
<v Speaker 5>my dad.

604
00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:55.840
<v Speaker 3>I don't know that other person.

605
00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:59.360
<v Speaker 7>In twenty twenty two, Carrie Rawson said her father, Dennis Raider,

606
00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:02.960
<v Speaker 7>were tormenting her from behind bars by getting his groupies

607
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:06.000
<v Speaker 7>to Harasser for cutting off all contact with them. She

608
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:08.199
<v Speaker 7>spoke to Anne Maricogliano, do you.

609
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:11.960
<v Speaker 15>Know if your father directed his followers to cyberstalk you?

610
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:18.119
<v Speaker 5>I do, because they sent me Instagram and Twitter messages

611
00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:20.679
<v Speaker 5>and emails and said I'm in contact with your dad.

612
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:21.719
<v Speaker 5>I'm on the phone with him.

613
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:22.760
<v Speaker 13>He's this nice.

614
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:25.079
<v Speaker 5>Guy, so I want nothing to do with any of it.

615
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:27.960
<v Speaker 7>One text someone sent her said, your dad really wants

616
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:31.920
<v Speaker 7>to hear from you terribly. He's desperate. Another said, your

617
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.000
<v Speaker 7>dad would love a letter. He truly loves you so much.

618
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:37.679
<v Speaker 7>Raider was convicted in two thousand and five of killing

619
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:42.039
<v Speaker 7>ten people during his seventeen year reign of terror in Wichita, Kansas.

620
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:43.639
<v Speaker 22>People call me a monster.

621
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:44.639
<v Speaker 11>I guess I am sure.

622
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:48.199
<v Speaker 5>I don't know if they understand that, Like if somehow

623
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:50.880
<v Speaker 5>my dad got out of prison, you know, he would

624
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:53.360
<v Speaker 5>stop and possibly want to murder them.

625
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:57.039
<v Speaker 7>In twenty twenty three, the family of the accused Gilgo

626
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.599
<v Speaker 7>Beach killer got comfort from a woman who knows hand

627
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:01.599
<v Speaker 7>what they were going through.

628
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:03.639
<v Speaker 19>I'm the daughter of the Happy Face Killer.

629
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:08.159
<v Speaker 7>Melissa Moore's father is Keith Jesperson, the notorious happy Face Killer.

630
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:10.559
<v Speaker 7>He was called that because of the smiley face he

631
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:13.760
<v Speaker 7>drew on taunting letters to cops. He murdered eight women

632
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:17.679
<v Speaker 7>in the nineteen nineties. After architect Rex Huerman was charged

633
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.119
<v Speaker 7>with murdering three women, Melissa Morri's sense of compassion led

634
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.679
<v Speaker 7>her to set up a Goalfundme page for the Hereman

635
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:27.719
<v Speaker 7>family that led to an extraordinary encounter. I'll get together

636
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:29.519
<v Speaker 7>at the family's home on Long Island.

637
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:33.360
<v Speaker 19>I just embraced her and gave her a hug, stroked

638
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:35.519
<v Speaker 19>her hair and said it's all going to be okay.

639
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:39.239
<v Speaker 7>More tels Allison Hall. She also met Huerman's two grown children.

640
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:41.440
<v Speaker 11>You went in the home and then you sat on

641
00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:42.920
<v Speaker 11>the porch with the three of them.

642
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:45.960
<v Speaker 19>Yeah, it was very relaxing in the sense that there's

643
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:49.079
<v Speaker 19>no reporters. The one thing that I'm very proud of, though,

644
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:52.000
<v Speaker 19>is that I was able to offer some relief in

645
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:54.480
<v Speaker 19>this hellish circumstance.

646
00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:57.000
<v Speaker 3>What advice did you give them when you met with them.

647
00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:59.239
<v Speaker 19>I have lots of advice, but the one thing that

648
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.360
<v Speaker 19>I would hope for them is that they would leave

649
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:04.960
<v Speaker 19>the home and not attend the trial. And I'm actually

650
00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:09.199
<v Speaker 19>really impressed with how the family is coping under the circumstances.

651
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.840
<v Speaker 19>They're dissecting their lives. I mean, who wouldn't be dissecting

652
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:15.639
<v Speaker 19>their life when you find out that your husband's accused

653
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:16.559
<v Speaker 19>of serial murder.

654
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:19.239
<v Speaker 7>Although authorities say the wife and children were ignorant of

655
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.960
<v Speaker 7>the crimes, Huerman was charged with. The lawyer who represents

656
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:26.039
<v Speaker 7>some Gelgo Beach victims wasn't conviensed.

657
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.159
<v Speaker 12>She should be considered a suspect and not just a

658
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:33.840
<v Speaker 12>bystander or someone who's been victimized by a husband.

659
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.559
<v Speaker 17>There are some people who think she must have known.

660
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:38.119
<v Speaker 3>What do you think about that?

661
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:41.320
<v Speaker 19>Well, I wouldn't put my name on a GoFundMe if

662
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:44.960
<v Speaker 19>I believe she was complicit in any way. The biggest

663
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.320
<v Speaker 19>thing that I think is the cause of suffering for

664
00:38:48.519 --> 00:38:52.519
<v Speaker 19>family members of serial killers or perpetrators is that question,

665
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:55.440
<v Speaker 19>how did you not know? Or did you know?

666
00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:58.920
<v Speaker 7>Huerman has been charged with three counts of first degree

667
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:02.800
<v Speaker 7>murderunts of second degree murder. As of May of twenty

668
00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:06.159
<v Speaker 7>twenty four, his case is still in court. These are

669
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:08.960
<v Speaker 7>personal letters from some of the most monstrous people in

670
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:10.679
<v Speaker 7>American history, and they.

671
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:12.679
<v Speaker 23>Got into like the guts the blood.

672
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:17.519
<v Speaker 7>For over twenty years, Barbara Dixtein corresponded with the notorious killers.

673
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:20.599
<v Speaker 23>The only person I was a little leery of and

674
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:25.159
<v Speaker 23>still am was Manton. He has plenty of followers.

675
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:28.039
<v Speaker 7>This scribble is the handiwork of Charles Manson.

676
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:31.320
<v Speaker 23>Hey, Barb, what's up? How's the weather in New York?

677
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:34.079
<v Speaker 23>And then you would go into you know, pigs fly.

678
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:36.400
<v Speaker 23>His letters never made any sense.

679
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:39.440
<v Speaker 7>To gain their trust, Dixtein took on certain roles.

680
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:42.719
<v Speaker 23>He's wishing me a happy New Year, and he's telling

681
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:45.719
<v Speaker 23>me don't be stingy with your body.

682
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:49.039
<v Speaker 7>Barbara pretended to be a stripper while communicating with Richard

683
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.159
<v Speaker 7>de Mairis, California's notorious nightstalker.

684
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:56.440
<v Speaker 23>If he was sitting here next to me. Okay, we'll

685
00:39:56.519 --> 00:39:57.679
<v Speaker 23>leave that part out.

686
00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:00.360
<v Speaker 21>That it bothered you to then be writing to them

687
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:01.079
<v Speaker 21>and corresponding.

688
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.320
<v Speaker 7>Of course, her late husband, Richie was also involved in

689
00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:07.519
<v Speaker 7>her efforts. He pretended to be gay to elicit letters

690
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:11.360
<v Speaker 7>from cannibal killer Jeffrey Dahmer. He also convinced Susan Smith,

691
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:14.639
<v Speaker 7>the South Carolina mom convicted a murdering two sons in

692
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.159
<v Speaker 7>nineteen ninety four, that he was in love with her.

693
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:22.239
<v Speaker 23>Susan Smith totally loved my husband. She actually thought if

694
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:24.440
<v Speaker 23>she got a prison that my husband was going to

695
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:24.920
<v Speaker 23>marry him.

696
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:28.920
<v Speaker 7>Her husband even had one special pinpal, the so called

697
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:31.000
<v Speaker 7>son of Sam David Berkowitz.

698
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:36.000
<v Speaker 23>Out of every serial killer that we ever collected from

699
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:40.719
<v Speaker 23>the one that my husband had a friendship with, and

700
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:43.119
<v Speaker 23>I mean a real friendship where he went to visit

701
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:44.880
<v Speaker 23>him was Burkowitz.

702
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:48.760
<v Speaker 7>The letters were featured on the podcast Killer's Vault, hosted

703
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:50.960
<v Speaker 7>by law and order actress Elizabeth Rome.

704
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:53.320
<v Speaker 9>I think we're going to be surprised at how intimate

705
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:57.039
<v Speaker 9>and personal these letters are, and really how graphic and horrible,

706
00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.199
<v Speaker 9>because the friendships that were built with Barbara Ritchie over

707
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:02.280
<v Speaker 9>these decades was authentic.

708
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:06.880
<v Speaker 7>Actor Eric Roberts narrated the chilling letters.

709
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:12.000
<v Speaker 24>When I've played these kinds of people who are dangerous,

710
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:16.360
<v Speaker 24>I've always played them where they don't you believe they're

711
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:20.480
<v Speaker 24>bad guys. Now what I learned through this process, these

712
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:24.280
<v Speaker 24>guys know they're bad guys and they're proud of it.

713
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Coming up, as the country is obsessed with serial killers

714
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.719
<v Speaker 1>in movies and podcasts, we ask if there are actually

715
00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:45.199
<v Speaker 1>fewer serial killers today.

716
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:51.559
<v Speaker 13>America has been frightened and fascinated by serial killers for decades.

717
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:56.840
<v Speaker 13>Dramas and documentaries about serial killers are binge watching hits

718
00:41:56.880 --> 00:42:01.679
<v Speaker 13>Ted Bundy, son of Sam Jeffrey. They're names that will

719
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:05.920
<v Speaker 13>live in infamy. Once hundreds of serial killers were thought

720
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:08.840
<v Speaker 13>to be active in the United States, but today many

721
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:12.960
<v Speaker 13>researchers believe there are just a handful. One reason. The

722
00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:18.039
<v Speaker 13>presence of surveillance cameras and phone tracking technology is also

723
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:21.199
<v Speaker 13>helping cops catch killers before they kill again.

724
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:24.079
<v Speaker 25>It is much more difficult to hide if you are

725
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:26.599
<v Speaker 25>a serial killer today than in the nineteen sixties and

726
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:27.440
<v Speaker 25>nineteen seventies.

727
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:31.800
<v Speaker 13>Joni Johnstone is a forensic psychologist and author of serial

728
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:35.599
<v Speaker 13>Killers one hundred and one questions True crime fans asked,

729
00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:38.280
<v Speaker 13>why do you think the number of serial killers has

730
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:38.920
<v Speaker 13>gone down?

731
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:41.119
<v Speaker 25>There's a couple of different reasons that really come into

732
00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:44.360
<v Speaker 25>play here. One is the lack of available victims. So

733
00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:46.440
<v Speaker 25>I grew up in the seventies when it really was

734
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:49.039
<v Speaker 25>true that your parents would say come home before it

735
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:52.840
<v Speaker 25>gets dark, and so we're out out and about unsupervised

736
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.360
<v Speaker 25>for lengthy amounts of time. I think very few parents

737
00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:58.920
<v Speaker 25>today would have that same philosophy. It was very common

738
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:01.519
<v Speaker 25>in the seventies and early eighties from people to hitchhike,

739
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:04.119
<v Speaker 25>and we know how vulnerable people are when they get

740
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:05.159
<v Speaker 25>in somebody else's car.

741
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:08.719
<v Speaker 13>Brian Cooberger, the defendant in the murders of four University

742
00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:12.880
<v Speaker 13>of Idaho's students, was arrested in seven weeks using advanced

743
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:16.599
<v Speaker 13>DNA and tracking technology. Is he the type of killer

744
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:18.119
<v Speaker 13>who would have killed again.

745
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:20.960
<v Speaker 25>There's little doubt in my mind that with the amount

746
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.719
<v Speaker 25>of premeditation that he put into this, that he would

747
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:25.159
<v Speaker 25>have killed again if he'd gotten away with it.

748
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:28.239
<v Speaker 13>Meanwhile, it's been revealed that the wife of the accused

749
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:32.079
<v Speaker 13>Gilgo Beach serial killer has cancer, but her health insurance

750
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:33.880
<v Speaker 13>came from her husband's business.

751
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:35.239
<v Speaker 9>She has breast cancer.

752
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:37.119
<v Speaker 10>She also has skin cancer.

753
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:39.840
<v Speaker 16>She's presently under a course of treatment that's going to

754
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:41.599
<v Speaker 16>continue for the next twelve to eighteen months.

755
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:44.440
<v Speaker 10>Her health insurance is due to expire in the next sixty.

756
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:47.119
<v Speaker 13>Days, but an attorney for some of the victims families

757
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.519
<v Speaker 13>say she deserves no sympathy.

758
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:54.079
<v Speaker 12>She should be considered a suspect and not just a

759
00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:58.400
<v Speaker 12>bystander or someone who's been victimized by a husband. Remember,

760
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:03.320
<v Speaker 12>she's been there with him steadily for twenty seven years.

761
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.239
<v Speaker 14>Police say they don't believe Rex Huerman's wife was involved

762
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:10.519
<v Speaker 14>in the killings. Meantime, Huerman and Brian Coburger both have

763
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:11.719
<v Speaker 14>pled not guilty.

764
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Those are cases we will continue to follow. Thank you

765
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:19.559
<v Speaker 1>for watching Inside Edition Examines. Jeffrey Dahmer, stay with us.

766
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:22.119
<v Speaker 1>There's so much more from inside edition to come,
