WEBVTT

1
00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Get ready for.

2
00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:17.359
<v Speaker 2>December five, twenty twenty four, allegedly according to that thing

3
00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:20.440
<v Speaker 2>we call a calendar, And this is the o'celly effect.

4
00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:23.239
<v Speaker 2>Of course, you already know that because you found the show.

5
00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:26.879
<v Speaker 2>If you were listening to me live, you'd be hearing

6
00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:29.280
<v Speaker 2>me just after eight pm Eastern time, and what we

7
00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:31.640
<v Speaker 2>used to call America and all that good stuff on

8
00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:36.000
<v Speaker 2>a Thursday or a Thursday. But guess what, you're probably

9
00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:38.479
<v Speaker 2>hearing the podcast no matter how you're coming to the show.

10
00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:41.640
<v Speaker 2>Welcome to it, And I obviously would love for you

11
00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:44.880
<v Speaker 2>to come by and visit the site at ochelly dot com,

12
00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.600
<v Speaker 2>be cause most of you catch it through your various podcatchers,

13
00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:50.960
<v Speaker 2>dajore and all that. So anyway, put it all aside.

14
00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.240
<v Speaker 2>I've got something completely different tonight. Is chucking to talk

15
00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:56.799
<v Speaker 2>JFK stuff some more. No, I think I'm kind of

16
00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:59.280
<v Speaker 2>done with that for now. Unless you guys call up

17
00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:01.640
<v Speaker 2>on the Friday show and insist on talking about it,

18
00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:04.920
<v Speaker 2>We're going to put it aside for now. Although I

19
00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:07.719
<v Speaker 2>had an interesting meeting that I'll discuss with you guys

20
00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:10.640
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow night. But I had the meeting today. I have

21
00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:14.719
<v Speaker 2>to kind of process it mentally, However, this does connect

22
00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:19.439
<v Speaker 2>to my recent activities. I was at Lancer and obviously,

23
00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:21.879
<v Speaker 2>and I've been talking about it all well week and

24
00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:25.280
<v Speaker 2>a half since i've been back, about right something like that. Anyway,

25
00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:28.079
<v Speaker 2>whatever it is, as we get toward Christmas and everybody's

26
00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:31.400
<v Speaker 2>sitting JFK burnout, I thought it would be great to

27
00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:35.439
<v Speaker 2>change things up. I met a guy who happened to

28
00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:39.319
<v Speaker 2>be hanging around with Mike Swanson at the conference. I

29
00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:41.599
<v Speaker 2>think it was a Sunday night. I think it was Sunday,

30
00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:44.760
<v Speaker 2>might have been Saturday. Who knows. My days bled together

31
00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.599
<v Speaker 2>because I was the MC and I was also responsible

32
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:50.120
<v Speaker 2>for a bunch of other stuff at the conference, so

33
00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:53.760
<v Speaker 2>it was what it was. But anyway, at the hotel

34
00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.359
<v Speaker 2>bar there, it comes up that this guy wrote a

35
00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:02.840
<v Speaker 2>book on Jack Nicholson. Yes, that Jack Nicholson, the actor, right,

36
00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:07.159
<v Speaker 2>and gee, I'm interested in him and his movies for short.

37
00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:10.560
<v Speaker 2>It's classic stuff and Nicholson's a legend and all that

38
00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.599
<v Speaker 2>good stuff. I don't know too many people who've decided

39
00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.800
<v Speaker 2>to write books about a guy like that. Plus I'm

40
00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:21.479
<v Speaker 2>from New Jersey. Nicholson has some connections to Jersey. Just

41
00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:25.360
<v Speaker 2>saying so you know that that automatically piques my interest.

42
00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:30.439
<v Speaker 2>But also he's done podcasts about Stanley Kubrick. Maybe we'll

43
00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:34.120
<v Speaker 2>get into both of these things in the next hour. Okay,

44
00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:36.759
<v Speaker 2>So Scott Edwards, how are you doing tonight?

45
00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:39.159
<v Speaker 3>Sir? Very good? How are you, Chuck?

46
00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:42.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm okay, And I want to mention the title of

47
00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:45.719
<v Speaker 2>that book. It's a Quintessential Jack, I think, is the

48
00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.280
<v Speaker 2>main title. And let's just take a look at the

49
00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:52.080
<v Speaker 2>cover real fast, because I know I just went through

50
00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.680
<v Speaker 2>the links. I was just at it on Amazon, and

51
00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:58.360
<v Speaker 2>believe me, if you check the show notes, you'll find

52
00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:00.240
<v Speaker 2>the links to go get the book. Plus it's the

53
00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:05.560
<v Speaker 2>publisher's website and all that. Yeah, Quintessential Jack. All right,

54
00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:09.159
<v Speaker 2>So Quintessential Jack. The art of Jack Nicholson on screen

55
00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:12.719
<v Speaker 2>there you go, title en subtitle, and it's a light

56
00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:15.240
<v Speaker 2>blue book with a picture of Jack Rinning on it.

57
00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:18.240
<v Speaker 2>By the way, So Scott, you know, first it was

58
00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:20.080
<v Speaker 2>nice to meet you at Lancer. I want to say,

59
00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:23.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, a cool guy to hang out with, even

60
00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:24.560
<v Speaker 2>if you didn't have a reason for me to bring

61
00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:29.439
<v Speaker 2>you on the show. But you do, Jack Nicholson, what

62
00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:32.319
<v Speaker 2>possessed you? Because I note there's a lot of guys

63
00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:34.960
<v Speaker 2>who are named Scott Edwards who had written books. But

64
00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:37.520
<v Speaker 2>this looks like your only book, is that true?

65
00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:42.159
<v Speaker 3>That's correct. It took about ten years of work and

66
00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:44.759
<v Speaker 3>so I was pretty tired. I was done with it,

67
00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:49.080
<v Speaker 3>and since then I've been promoting it and doing talks

68
00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.159
<v Speaker 3>and things like that. So that's the only one. That

69
00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:54.199
<v Speaker 3>may be the only one ever, it may not be,

70
00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:59.719
<v Speaker 3>we'll see. But I've been a student of film since

71
00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:02.400
<v Speaker 3>I as a kid, and then when in college that

72
00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:05.520
<v Speaker 3>was one of the subjects I studied, and since then

73
00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:10.360
<v Speaker 3>have been attending film festivals and other events that would

74
00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:14.520
<v Speaker 3>get one next to some of the players who worked

75
00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:19.600
<v Speaker 3>with Nicholson and other people like Stanley Kubrick. And it

76
00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:23.439
<v Speaker 3>just came to me. Since I'm a copywriter for advertising

77
00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.920
<v Speaker 3>agency here in Canton, Ohio called innes Majority, that is

78
00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.040
<v Speaker 3>my career. There's your day job, that's my day job.

79
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:37.000
<v Speaker 3>And then so I write all the time. Wanted to

80
00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:41.120
<v Speaker 3>do something that would be more permanent and decided to

81
00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:45.120
<v Speaker 3>do a book on some aspect of film, and Jack

82
00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:48.000
<v Speaker 3>Nicholson was just a subject that came into me. I thought, oh,

83
00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:50.519
<v Speaker 3>that's that's pretty good, because he's had a long career.

84
00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:55.360
<v Speaker 3>It's enough to cover he's been working. Oh, he had

85
00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:58.680
<v Speaker 3>about a fifty year career, about seventy five roles. What

86
00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:01.720
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people don't know. He also had six

87
00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:05.639
<v Speaker 3>screenplays that were produced as films and he directed three films.

88
00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Ah, now those are things that are unknown. I mean

89
00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:11.120
<v Speaker 2>the first thing out of anybody's mouth. My whole life

90
00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:14.920
<v Speaker 2>with Jack Nicholson pretty much is what Easy Rider right.

91
00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:18.160
<v Speaker 2>And people start talking about that, But is that where

92
00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:19.920
<v Speaker 2>we should begin the discussion or not.

93
00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:23.879
<v Speaker 3>That was his big break. He was actually going to

94
00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:27.439
<v Speaker 3>quit the business. He had been in the film industry

95
00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:34.360
<v Speaker 3>for ten years, started working with Roger Corman, who does

96
00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:37.439
<v Speaker 3>all those cheapy films. But the good thing about it

97
00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:39.319
<v Speaker 3>that those who work on it is they get the

98
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:44.639
<v Speaker 3>chance to learn how to make films and get some credits,

99
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:46.639
<v Speaker 3>which is really important when you're starting to get into

100
00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.279
<v Speaker 3>the industry. And he worked with Corman, had a pretty

101
00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:53.439
<v Speaker 3>good start, and then things didn't go all that well

102
00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:58.279
<v Speaker 3>as far as his career, and actually he gave himself

103
00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:02.959
<v Speaker 3>one last year and that's what Easy Rider hit. It

104
00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:06.160
<v Speaker 3>was a complete fluke he'd been working for you know,

105
00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:09.040
<v Speaker 3>to think about if you're in your particular career, and

106
00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:11.879
<v Speaker 3>after ten years, not only haven't you made it, but

107
00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:14.279
<v Speaker 3>things that are actually have gotten kind of worse.

108
00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:19.600
<v Speaker 2>Right, well, and look working with Corman. And by the way,

109
00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:24.079
<v Speaker 2>that's a common thread there between Kubrick and Nicholson, right,

110
00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:28.639
<v Speaker 2>because didn't Kubrick get his start also with Corman? Or

111
00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:29.879
<v Speaker 2>am I mistaken about that?

112
00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:32.279
<v Speaker 3>He did? Not? Francis for Copola?

113
00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Did Coppola? That's who it was. I knew it was

114
00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:37.879
<v Speaker 2>one of the big filmmakers, and I'm trying to think

115
00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:41.199
<v Speaker 2>which one was. It was Coppola, right, And he would

116
00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.480
<v Speaker 2>direct films that were done in a couple of days,

117
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.759
<v Speaker 2>that were done on a next to nothing budget, and

118
00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.680
<v Speaker 2>those kind of films are where Nicholson started.

119
00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:55.759
<v Speaker 3>That's right. He also was working at the regular studio

120
00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:03.160
<v Speaker 3>system MGAMI started there, working their cartoon department, delivering cells

121
00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:08.879
<v Speaker 3>from one building to another. And so he was working

122
00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:12.800
<v Speaker 3>in these Corman films along with people like Bruce Dern,

123
00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:17.160
<v Speaker 3>and there was this group of people who wanted to

124
00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:22.680
<v Speaker 3>get a chance, Copla being one, and that's how they

125
00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:27.240
<v Speaker 3>were able to get some credits and do some decent work.

126
00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:30.800
<v Speaker 3>Because even though Roger Corman worked often on a shoestring,

127
00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:34.959
<v Speaker 3>and he would have a habit of making two films

128
00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.680
<v Speaker 3>together so that he could use the same suite of actors,

129
00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:43.839
<v Speaker 3>the same sets, and economize that way. But it wasn't

130
00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:46.920
<v Speaker 3>the case where the films themselves were terrible. They were

131
00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.480
<v Speaker 3>still good films. It just happened to be low budget,

132
00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:54.759
<v Speaker 3>and so really the actors and directors saw there was

133
00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:58.120
<v Speaker 3>a tremendous opportunity. Ron Howard was another one who started

134
00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:02.399
<v Speaker 3>as a director with Roger, and Jonathan Demi was another.

135
00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:07.439
<v Speaker 3>And you know, many actors worked in his system, and

136
00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:13.160
<v Speaker 3>they they always later on thanked Corman as being essential

137
00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:14.360
<v Speaker 3>to their careers well.

138
00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:18.759
<v Speaker 2>And Corman metastasizes because you know, even I I was

139
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:23.959
<v Speaker 2>listening to some reruns of the Talking Sopranos podcast right where,

140
00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:25.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're talking about a TV show that was

141
00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:28.240
<v Speaker 2>actually produced in New Jersey, in case you haven't noticed,

142
00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I got a little thing for things from New Jersey

143
00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:34.639
<v Speaker 2>because that's where I'm from. You know, I even followed

144
00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Kevin Smith's career quite you know, carefully for a while

145
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:42.720
<v Speaker 2>there and all that. But the reality is that you know,

146
00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:46.720
<v Speaker 2>Corman metastasizes into everything. It's like a lot of the

147
00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.039
<v Speaker 2>people that started with him on those very low budget affairs.

148
00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.799
<v Speaker 2>You know, legends grew from that. There's allegedly one movie

149
00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:58.240
<v Speaker 2>was directed and put out all in the space of

150
00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:02.519
<v Speaker 2>like a couple of days on a bet apparently. And yeah,

151
00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:05.960
<v Speaker 2>he was well known for sharing the props, the actors,

152
00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:10.519
<v Speaker 2>all kinds of stuff, everything, but the story itself shared

153
00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.799
<v Speaker 2>from film to film in order to economize.

154
00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:16.720
<v Speaker 3>And I don't think we've seen I mean too many.

155
00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:21.200
<v Speaker 2>There's a couple of Hollywood legends like this, right, but

156
00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:25.159
<v Speaker 2>not too many when we get more close to like now,

157
00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:29.480
<v Speaker 2>like not going into that time period where Nicholson's starting, right,

158
00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.320
<v Speaker 2>because wasn't it about you know, bigger productions. I don't

159
00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:36.759
<v Speaker 2>think indie films and smaller films like that had even

160
00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:38.159
<v Speaker 2>been getting a chance.

161
00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:38.639
<v Speaker 3>Around this time.

162
00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Or am I reading it wrong because I'm not a

163
00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:43.759
<v Speaker 2>film a storian at all. I'm a casual observer. I'm

164
00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.879
<v Speaker 2>more of a you know, I know about the media, news,

165
00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:50.399
<v Speaker 2>media's history. I know a little bit about television history,

166
00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.440
<v Speaker 2>but when it comes down to films, honestly, a lot

167
00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:56.759
<v Speaker 2>of it I just have a vague understanding of. So

168
00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:02.000
<v Speaker 2>was it really one of the last sort of ecano

169
00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:06.679
<v Speaker 2>things to come around before the independent developments and the

170
00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:08.919
<v Speaker 2>technology changed, you know, in recent years.

171
00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:11.559
<v Speaker 3>In a way, yes, in a way, it was the

172
00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:13.440
<v Speaker 3>start of the independent system.

173
00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:14.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay.

174
00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:20.559
<v Speaker 3>Roger was an independent production company, and his films would

175
00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:26.399
<v Speaker 3>often be say driving movies or the second film on

176
00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:29.879
<v Speaker 3>a double feature, that kind of thing. But there's still

177
00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:35.639
<v Speaker 3>money in that. And his autobiography was how to make

178
00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:39.120
<v Speaker 3>I forget how many movies, it said, but and never

179
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.120
<v Speaker 3>lose a dime, right, And that's where he was smart about.

180
00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:47.000
<v Speaker 3>But the movies didn't look cheap. They weren't terrible like

181
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:51.240
<v Speaker 3>you know a lot of independent filmmakers where you say,

182
00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:54.159
<v Speaker 3>like ed Wood or something, the movies are actually terrible.

183
00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:58.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Well Edwood's stuff is so terrible it's hilarious.

184
00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:00.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, Plan nine from out Space is

185
00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:04.320
<v Speaker 2>obviously legendary, but I mean everything he did it was

186
00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:08.279
<v Speaker 2>just this, you know, terribly like it doesn't matter, just

187
00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:10.240
<v Speaker 2>just make it look sort of like it's what it's

188
00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:14.240
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be. I mean, shower curtains and cardboard handles

189
00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:18.480
<v Speaker 2>and all kinds of weird stuff. Ed Wood is is

190
00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:20.879
<v Speaker 2>like a comedy built into every one of his little

191
00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.519
<v Speaker 2>sci fi ventures or whatever. Well there was a cross

192
00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:28.360
<v Speaker 2>dressing thing he did too, But anyway, ed Wood is

193
00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:30.519
<v Speaker 2>an example of somebody doing a cheap and you know

194
00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:35.519
<v Speaker 2>it's cheap, uh, you know, funny stuff. I mean, I

195
00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:38.799
<v Speaker 2>love the story about Bela Lagosi and the last you

196
00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:42.279
<v Speaker 2>know in quotes film he appears in where He's got

197
00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:45.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, some of this loose footage that's pretty much meaningless,

198
00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:48.840
<v Speaker 2>and then he folds it together with the dentist, right, yeah,

199
00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:52.879
<v Speaker 2>I mean those kind of things. I mean, of course

200
00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.960
<v Speaker 2>I learned about that, I think in the nineties, but

201
00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:59.639
<v Speaker 2>it was it was an amazing cult thing to get

202
00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:01.759
<v Speaker 2>a whole of a copy of Plan nine from Outer

203
00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:05.759
<v Speaker 2>Space in the VHS days. But you bring up drive ins,

204
00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:09.600
<v Speaker 2>and I think because look, I was born in nineteen

205
00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:14.279
<v Speaker 2>seventy two, so I'm pretty sure my generation got the

206
00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:18.799
<v Speaker 2>last legs of the drive in movie theater experience, like

207
00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.519
<v Speaker 2>we got to see it go away, We got to

208
00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:25.879
<v Speaker 2>see the very last gasps from that sort of thing.

209
00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:29.320
<v Speaker 2>But I love that. And you couldn't project crap like

210
00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:33.039
<v Speaker 2>ed Wood on a you know, on a giant screen

211
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.440
<v Speaker 2>like that with a playground in front of it and

212
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:37.720
<v Speaker 2>get away with it. I don't think people would stand

213
00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:40.120
<v Speaker 2>for it. You know, when I was a kid in

214
00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:43.519
<v Speaker 2>the seventies and the early eighties, I don't think people

215
00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:46.559
<v Speaker 2>would have stood for it, especially because you know, at

216
00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:50.000
<v Speaker 2>a certain point we got Star Wars on a giant

217
00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.440
<v Speaker 2>drive in screen. How are you going to put Plan

218
00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:55.720
<v Speaker 2>nine from Outer Space, you know, alongside of Star Wars

219
00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:59.519
<v Speaker 2>or you know, or something else that has such a

220
00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:04.320
<v Speaker 2>a thematic and cinematic effect, like The Godfather, which has

221
00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:07.480
<v Speaker 2>that unique look. Like if you tune into The Godfather

222
00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:10.519
<v Speaker 2>right now on a cable channel or on a streaming service,

223
00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:15.600
<v Speaker 2>you can almost recognize it immediately because of the cinematic

224
00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:21.200
<v Speaker 2>style that Coppola used, because of the cinematography, the way

225
00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:24.440
<v Speaker 2>the film looks, the way it's kind of dated, even

226
00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:27.000
<v Speaker 2>though it was being shot brand new. You know, he

227
00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:31.799
<v Speaker 2>gave an aged look to the film at certain times

228
00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:34.639
<v Speaker 2>and everything else. You put that up on a screen,

229
00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:36.440
<v Speaker 2>and then you were to slap like an ed Wood

230
00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:38.759
<v Speaker 2>feature up there, it would have been a horror show.

231
00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:41.000
<v Speaker 2>People would have left, you know. I mean they did

232
00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:44.240
<v Speaker 2>put out things like Kentucky Fried Movie and Creep Show

233
00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:47.320
<v Speaker 2>too during this time period, which were kind of funny

234
00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:50.039
<v Speaker 2>and you know, more low budget affairs than these other things.

235
00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:54.879
<v Speaker 2>But what about that, I mean the drive in movie experience.

236
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.759
<v Speaker 2>Even when they talk about Easy Rider, I hear film

237
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.799
<v Speaker 2>historians kind of reminist is about that time period with

238
00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.000
<v Speaker 2>the drive in theater. So I mean, it's definitely a

239
00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:10.240
<v Speaker 2>different era when Nicholson gets his big break right right now.

240
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:14.159
<v Speaker 3>During that period, there were a lot of genre type

241
00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:19.720
<v Speaker 3>films made by these lower budget producers like Roger Corman

242
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:25.080
<v Speaker 3>you would have, and biker exploitation films was a category

243
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:30.320
<v Speaker 3>of film that was popular at that time. Easy Rider

244
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:34.480
<v Speaker 3>could have easily been just another one of them, but

245
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.480
<v Speaker 3>instead there was something seen in it that was special.

246
00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:42.600
<v Speaker 3>It was one awards at the Con Film Festival that year,

247
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.759
<v Speaker 3>and that's really what broke it is the news about

248
00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:49.440
<v Speaker 3>that and Dennis Hopper also being pulled out as being

249
00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:56.279
<v Speaker 3>first director at CON. So it really fell into that

250
00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:02.279
<v Speaker 3>bike exploitation category. Somehow broke out there was something special

251
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:06.399
<v Speaker 3>about it, and it was probably just as much chance

252
00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:09.559
<v Speaker 3>as anything else because there were other good biker movies

253
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:14.240
<v Speaker 3>at the time, and some of them had some notable

254
00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:17.639
<v Speaker 3>names in it, like The Wild Angels with Peter Fonda

255
00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:21.639
<v Speaker 3>and Nancy Sinatra, so they were not just crappily put

256
00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:26.559
<v Speaker 3>together things. They were lower budgets. Certainly, you remember the

257
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:34.240
<v Speaker 3>was it Billy Jack? Remember that series? So you had

258
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.879
<v Speaker 3>you know there. They were popular and when you had

259
00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.919
<v Speaker 3>driving and double features, you had to fill those features.

260
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:46.559
<v Speaker 3>And these were good production values. The thing about Roger

261
00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.360
<v Speaker 3>Horman that was in contrast to some of the other

262
00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:53.919
<v Speaker 3>cheaper ones is did it looked cheap? But he had enough.

263
00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:57.639
<v Speaker 3>He was smart enough, and he was really well educated

264
00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:01.799
<v Speaker 3>in economics, and he would find a way to get

265
00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:05.960
<v Speaker 3>something that had been used in another film and was

266
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.639
<v Speaker 3>about to be torn down and use it right before that.

267
00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:15.000
<v Speaker 3>So when you see those Edgar Allan Poe films that

268
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:17.200
<v Speaker 3>he had a tendency to make back then with Vincent

269
00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:21.240
<v Speaker 3>Price he'd do too, and other films with Boris Karloff.

270
00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.159
<v Speaker 3>He would do two films back to back on that

271
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.039
<v Speaker 3>same set and be able to burn the thing down

272
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:32.440
<v Speaker 3>in order to have this really insane kind of ending.

273
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:34.840
<v Speaker 3>But they were going to tear it down anyway, so

274
00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:37.399
<v Speaker 3>he might as well burn it down and make it

275
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:41.159
<v Speaker 3>look like it's a big part of the film.

276
00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:43.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, there you go, and you're talking about like the

277
00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Black Cat and the Fall of the House of Usher, Right,

278
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean the ones that are named after, you know,

279
00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:51.519
<v Speaker 2>some of the most best known Edgar Allen Poe titles

280
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:55.399
<v Speaker 2>that they turned into these weird kind of movies.

281
00:16:56.440 --> 00:16:59.159
<v Speaker 3>Right, And Nicholson was in one of those, called The Raven.

282
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.960
<v Speaker 3>Didn't have much to do with the story itself. What

283
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.119
<v Speaker 3>Roger tended to do is use the bare bones of

284
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:11.160
<v Speaker 3>what was in the original stories and create something that

285
00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.799
<v Speaker 3>had the advantage of using the Poe name because it's

286
00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:19.359
<v Speaker 3>in the public domain of chorus being from eighteen hundreds,

287
00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:25.880
<v Speaker 3>and putting together these ensemble pieces with people like Vincent

288
00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:29.400
<v Speaker 3>Price or Us Carl Off, Peter Lourie and so on.

289
00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Right, And I mean, let's see now, around the same

290
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:39.000
<v Speaker 2>time period, even that weird compilation movie Black Sabbath, which

291
00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:42.440
<v Speaker 2>the band wound up naming itself after, came out and

292
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:45.799
<v Speaker 2>it sort of looked like one of those films as well,

293
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, similar to the stuff that you should find

294
00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:53.640
<v Speaker 2>on the again the old VHS shelf with the likes

295
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:55.359
<v Speaker 2>of the Black Cat and The Fall of the House

296
00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:58.720
<v Speaker 2>of Usher and all that. But yeah, I mean, did

297
00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:01.599
<v Speaker 2>you ever see the movie Black Sabba by the way, Yes,

298
00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:01.960
<v Speaker 2>I did.

299
00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:08.279
<v Speaker 3>Some of those European films are also really great. Black

300
00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:15.039
<v Speaker 3>Sunday with Barbara not Barbara Shelley, I can't think for

301
00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.720
<v Speaker 3>her name off hand, but early there was a period

302
00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:22.759
<v Speaker 3>in the early sixties where people like Roger Corman and

303
00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:27.640
<v Speaker 3>some English and European directors put out some great stuff

304
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:32.119
<v Speaker 3>that would be considered genre films horror films, but had

305
00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:38.559
<v Speaker 3>really excellent production values and come across really well. Even today.

306
00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:40.559
<v Speaker 3>They're not really dated, right.

307
00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:43.240
<v Speaker 2>And this is before the age of the slasher film,

308
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.640
<v Speaker 2>when you know Black Christmas and Halloween come in the

309
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:49.599
<v Speaker 2>later seventies. This is you know, a decade before that,

310
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.119
<v Speaker 2>and more right.

311
00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:54.519
<v Speaker 3>You know, gothic type films they.

312
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Were, Yeah, they were more gothic than they wore horror. Right,

313
00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.480
<v Speaker 2>It was like sort of semi creepy again, more like

314
00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Edgar Allen Poe's writing. Indeed, even if it didn't follow

315
00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:08.319
<v Speaker 2>the story as composed to say as opposed to say,

316
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.680
<v Speaker 2>you know what Clyde Barker winds up doing in the eighties.

317
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:15.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, his horror stuff was much more messy, much

318
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:19.519
<v Speaker 2>more graphic. You know, the weird things going on in

319
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:22.599
<v Speaker 2>some of these other films were just sort of creepy.

320
00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:27.039
<v Speaker 2>And odd, you know, dark and dingy and all that,

321
00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:30.680
<v Speaker 2>but really it was an art that was lost though

322
00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.880
<v Speaker 2>it seems like, right, I mean, coming into the seventies

323
00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.839
<v Speaker 2>when there's a lot of cheap genres including you you

324
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.480
<v Speaker 2>mentioned biker exploitation, Well what about black exploitation films? Right,

325
00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:45.559
<v Speaker 2>those things were also made on a fairly cheap budget,

326
00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:47.599
<v Speaker 2>and they pumped out a bunch of those as well,

327
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:49.880
<v Speaker 2>you know in the seventies, right.

328
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:53.640
<v Speaker 3>Right, that correct, that was a big genre during that

329
00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:57.599
<v Speaker 3>period of time. And then it came back when Quentin

330
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:03.960
<v Speaker 3>Tarantino did the film with Pam Greer and based on

331
00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:06.920
<v Speaker 3>the Foxy Brown character and that kind of thing, right

332
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:08.400
<v Speaker 3>called Jackie Brown.

333
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:12.519
<v Speaker 2>Jackie Brown. But he was introducing those elements constantly back

334
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:15.519
<v Speaker 2>into along with you know, I'm gonna make you laugh here,

335
00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:17.880
<v Speaker 2>along with his constant need to show you a foot fetish,

336
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.400
<v Speaker 2>he was showing you, you know, some of the the

337
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.759
<v Speaker 2>blaxploitation stuff and stylistically also showing you some of the

338
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:29.200
<v Speaker 2>things that came with the Bruce Lee films even because

339
00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.240
<v Speaker 2>that's he was definitely wearing his influences on his sleeve.

340
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:35.359
<v Speaker 2>But let's get back to Nicholson, because he gets his

341
00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:38.480
<v Speaker 2>launch with Easy Rider, what is the next stage in

342
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.720
<v Speaker 2>his career? Right, that's his big break? But then what

343
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.119
<v Speaker 2>happens to him? Because you know, again it seemed like

344
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:47.920
<v Speaker 2>when I was a kid, it went from Easy Rider

345
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.519
<v Speaker 2>to here's the latest thing that Jack is doing, or hey,

346
00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:56.799
<v Speaker 2>don't forget about what do you call it? The you know,

347
00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:02.359
<v Speaker 2>the the the Stephen King movie right where he's the

348
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.279
<v Speaker 2>proprietor at the hotel and all that stuff, and that's

349
00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:07.079
<v Speaker 2>a whole other experience.

350
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:09.640
<v Speaker 3>Right, the shining And that was in nineteen eighty. But

351
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:13.039
<v Speaker 3>the thing that happened after Easy Rider, Easy Writer broke him.

352
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.880
<v Speaker 3>That was his breakthrough. And then he became a star

353
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:22.680
<v Speaker 3>in his following movie, which was Five Easy Pieces made

354
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.920
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen seventy, and that was part of an ongoing

355
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:31.960
<v Speaker 3>collaboration with the director called Bob Rafelson, who got his

356
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:38.640
<v Speaker 3>start creating the series The Monkeys and the actually Monkey

357
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:43.640
<v Speaker 3>money financed Easy Rider. That was the production company to

358
00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:46.839
<v Speaker 3>put Easy Rider together, and then they went on to

359
00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:52.680
<v Speaker 3>do Five Easy Pieces where Nicholson played opposite Karen Black

360
00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.680
<v Speaker 3>and she was also nominated for Academy Award as was

361
00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:01.680
<v Speaker 3>Jack for Five Easy Pieces. Him a star that film

362
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:06.240
<v Speaker 3>at the time, the Academy Awards was a big deal,

363
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.720
<v Speaker 3>and leading up to it, the famous scene, the diner

364
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:14.200
<v Speaker 3>scene where he's trying to order something off the menu

365
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:16.559
<v Speaker 3>and the waitress is not allowing him to do so,

366
00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:18.880
<v Speaker 3>and at the end of it he clears all the

367
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:23.480
<v Speaker 3>stuff off the table. That scene was on every newscast

368
00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:27.039
<v Speaker 3>leading up the Academy Awards. If you never saw the movie,

369
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:31.039
<v Speaker 3>you would have seen that scene fifty times in that

370
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:35.319
<v Speaker 3>couple weeks leading up to the Oscars. And that was

371
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:41.119
<v Speaker 3>that film, and after that he was in demand and

372
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.480
<v Speaker 3>just kept having hit after hit, although no matter what

373
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:49.880
<v Speaker 3>period of his career after that, he still made films

374
00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:54.039
<v Speaker 3>that probably a lot of people never heard of nor saw,

375
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:57.440
<v Speaker 3>but are definitely worth viewing. And that was part of

376
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:01.079
<v Speaker 3>the impetus for me to do this book. It's set

377
00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:06.680
<v Speaker 3>up in a way that each chapter is organized by,

378
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:10.519
<v Speaker 3>say a type of genre or a type of character,

379
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.960
<v Speaker 3>and you could read that chapter and then look at

380
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.880
<v Speaker 3>the three to six films that are discussed in that chapter,

381
00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:24.880
<v Speaker 3>and it could just be doing it by random. And

382
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.039
<v Speaker 3>there is a chapter, for instance, about what we were

383
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:34.279
<v Speaker 3>just Discussinger Corman years called the School of Roger and

384
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:38.680
<v Speaker 3>There's another chapter called Hippies and Hogs and Horses. That's

385
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:42.640
<v Speaker 3>all the Westerns and the biker movies and that kind

386
00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:46.680
<v Speaker 3>of thing. There's one devoted to rom coms later in

387
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:51.160
<v Speaker 3>his career. That's what he was doing. And so that's

388
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.960
<v Speaker 3>the way that the book works. It's organized in the

389
00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:00.200
<v Speaker 3>fashion that the reader could use it as a viewing guide.

390
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:04.279
<v Speaker 3>Pick a chapter that's about a character that they you

391
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:07.519
<v Speaker 3>happen to like, you like westerns, Okay, read that chapter,

392
00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:10.400
<v Speaker 3>doesn't matter what order you do it after you get

393
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.960
<v Speaker 3>out of the introductory chapter, and just look at those films.

394
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.519
<v Speaker 3>But I would say to anybody you think you know

395
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:19.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm not going to say you think you know Jack,

396
00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:20.839
<v Speaker 3>you know where I'm going to go with that, But

397
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:24.319
<v Speaker 3>you don't a lot of films out there that are

398
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:28.200
<v Speaker 3>really worth seeing. You've never even heard of even toward

399
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:29.000
<v Speaker 3>the end of his career.

400
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:33.039
<v Speaker 2>M Well, you know, like I said, a lot of

401
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:36.440
<v Speaker 2>people point to these seminal kind of you know, big

402
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.960
<v Speaker 2>hits or cult hits one way or another, like they

403
00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:45.000
<v Speaker 2>might mention Chinatown or you know, different stuff like this.

404
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.799
<v Speaker 2>But I'm just taking a look myself as I'm speaking

405
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.000
<v Speaker 2>to you. You know, it's some of his filmography, right,

406
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:54.880
<v Speaker 2>He did a couple of these biker films that looks

407
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:59.400
<v Speaker 2>like to me, you know, outside of Easy Rider. Before

408
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Easy Rider. Right.

409
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:05.799
<v Speaker 3>One was called Hell's Angels on Wheels, used the actual

410
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:11.279
<v Speaker 3>Oakland Hell's Angels motorcycle club with who was probably the

411
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:13.519
<v Speaker 3>most famous of the Hell's Angels at the time. It

412
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:17.119
<v Speaker 3>was Sunny Barger, who was my first interview subject for

413
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:22.319
<v Speaker 3>the book, and Nicholson was just another to him. Oh,

414
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:24.720
<v Speaker 3>I thought he was another biker. He knew what he

415
00:25:24.759 --> 00:25:26.720
<v Speaker 3>was doing, right, I.

416
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.319
<v Speaker 2>Mean, and then you end up with like say Chinatown

417
00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:34.599
<v Speaker 2>and even a weird appearance in the movie Tommy, right, yeah, God,

418
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:35.640
<v Speaker 2>and tell people about that.

419
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:42.480
<v Speaker 3>He actually was replacing Oliver Reed, the English actor who

420
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:46.559
<v Speaker 3>turned out couldn't sing. So Tommy was a musical of course,

421
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:50.759
<v Speaker 3>based on the Who's album, and they had Who in

422
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:55.000
<v Speaker 3>it along with some other professional singers Tina Turner, Elton

423
00:25:55.079 --> 00:26:01.000
<v Speaker 3>John and others, but actors were also singing and Oliver

424
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:06.799
<v Speaker 3>couldn't cut it, replaced by Nicholson, and the director Ken

425
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:10.079
<v Speaker 3>Russell was thinking, oh, this guy, he's not a singer either,

426
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.480
<v Speaker 3>But it turned out he was able to avail himself

427
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:16.720
<v Speaker 3>very well and do a good job on the vocals

428
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:20.920
<v Speaker 3>and surprised Ken Russell and others.

429
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:24.759
<v Speaker 2>Right now, you know, way after the breaking out moment

430
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and everything else. I mean, literally two decades later he

431
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:32.599
<v Speaker 2>HiT's a patch of films that are extremely memorable for me. Again,

432
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.920
<v Speaker 2>I told you I'm a gen xer, right, so you

433
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:39.759
<v Speaker 2>know his role in the Witches of Eastwick and Broadcast

434
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:44.880
<v Speaker 2>News and Batman, right, and then in ninety two A

435
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Few Good Men, And you know, that's one of the

436
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:50.559
<v Speaker 2>most qu at least for fifteen years at least was

437
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:55.039
<v Speaker 2>one of the most quoted movies around, right, everybody still today,

438
00:26:55.039 --> 00:27:00.240
<v Speaker 2>people you can't handle the truth, right, so you know.

439
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:03.079
<v Speaker 3>And I spoke to a few people who worked on

440
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.480
<v Speaker 3>that film, and I heard the same story a couple

441
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:09.200
<v Speaker 3>of times, so I'm definitely going to believe it. And

442
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:14.640
<v Speaker 3>Keifer Sullivan Sutherland was one and while he was another.

443
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.079
<v Speaker 3>And the story was that when they were doing the

444
00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:23.640
<v Speaker 3>table read, which you've seen depicted in TV shows and stuff,

445
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:27.319
<v Speaker 3>all the actors get together. It's called that because they're

446
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:33.279
<v Speaker 3>reading around a table and they usually kind of take

447
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:35.960
<v Speaker 3>it a little easy, even though they're learning their role

448
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:39.759
<v Speaker 3>and they're doing it as if they're shooting the scene.

449
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.720
<v Speaker 3>But what was described to me was that Nicholson when

450
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:49.319
<v Speaker 3>he came in, he did his that scene, for instance,

451
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.640
<v Speaker 3>most famous scene in the courtroom, he did it like

452
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:57.440
<v Speaker 3>it did in the movie. And they said everybody took

453
00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:01.160
<v Speaker 3>notice and it wasn't making it easy when they were

454
00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:05.039
<v Speaker 3>doing the table read. He set the standard. And they

455
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:07.720
<v Speaker 3>also said Tom Cruise, Tom Cruise looked like he was

456
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.440
<v Speaker 3>about to craft his pants because here he was being

457
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:14.240
<v Speaker 3>made to look like, you know, he was slumming it.

458
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:17.880
<v Speaker 3>So everybody had to step it up to reach the

459
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:21.680
<v Speaker 3>level that Nicholson was committing, even at the level of

460
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:27.720
<v Speaker 3>the table read right, because of his intensity, you know.

461
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:31.960
<v Speaker 2>And by the way back to the Shining there, there's

462
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.400
<v Speaker 2>an intense movie altogether that Nicholson is the centerpiece on.

463
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:39.920
<v Speaker 2>And like I said, you know, if that's like nineteen

464
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.160
<v Speaker 2>eighty right, I'm a little kid back then, but that

465
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:47.119
<v Speaker 2>movie was super intense for me because of the weird,

466
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:51.759
<v Speaker 2>creepy aspects of it, all amped up mainly by Nicholson's

467
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:55.039
<v Speaker 2>you know behavior. And of course we've seen that quoted

468
00:28:55.079 --> 00:29:01.680
<v Speaker 2>and repeated everywhere from The Simpsons onto you know, various entries,

469
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:05.640
<v Speaker 2>right you know, the here's Johnny thing, the uh, I

470
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:08.599
<v Speaker 2>don't know if you've probably seen the Simpsons thing, no beer,

471
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:12.640
<v Speaker 2>no whatever, mix Homer blah blah blah. But that's all about,

472
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:16.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, no, no rest and relaxation. Whatever it was

473
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:18.680
<v Speaker 2>he was saying about himself when he was typing that

474
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.480
<v Speaker 2>over and over again, right like he was so believable

475
00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:27.200
<v Speaker 2>in that role. And uh, you know, and people of

476
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:29.519
<v Speaker 2>course mimicked the whole thing with him, with the acts

477
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.039
<v Speaker 2>and chasing his family. And I mean, obviously if you've

478
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.759
<v Speaker 2>never seen these films, you have to. But I'm just

479
00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:38.400
<v Speaker 2>pointing to some of the highlights for me as as

480
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:43.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, as a viewer, how does a guy like

481
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:48.200
<v Speaker 2>this actually have these like small explosions. It seems like

482
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:53.680
<v Speaker 2>because throughout this very long career he's either getting massive

483
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:58.160
<v Speaker 2>critical acclaim or big box office or he's part of

484
00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:01.119
<v Speaker 2>a big box office thing. I mean, he's the joker

485
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:05.559
<v Speaker 2>in Batman, and nobody can say that he didn't play

486
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:09.799
<v Speaker 2>a unique joker, you know. Among I mean, I do

487
00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:13.480
<v Speaker 2>prefer what happened later, that's for sure. But for a

488
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:18.240
<v Speaker 2>guy trying to bend the comic book into reality, and

489
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:21.079
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was weird when they selected Jack Nicholson,

490
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:25.559
<v Speaker 2>but you know, he pulled that off in a uniquely

491
00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Nicholson way. I mean, I don't even know what to

492
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:33.720
<v Speaker 2>say about the man's range right everywhere from being a

493
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:39.519
<v Speaker 2>psycho to being well another kind of psycho, right to

494
00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:42.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, being an easygoing character. Matter of fact, I

495
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:44.599
<v Speaker 2>think there was even a movie I once saw where

496
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:49.000
<v Speaker 2>he was kind of a mob boss. But anyway, it

497
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.279
<v Speaker 2>just it goes all over the map. The guy's diverse

498
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:59.359
<v Speaker 2>and consistently huge, long career. I mean, is that really

499
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:01.519
<v Speaker 2>what made you say? I got to lay out this

500
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:04.880
<v Speaker 2>book and give people a real roadmap from beginning to

501
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:06.279
<v Speaker 2>end with his career.

502
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:10.240
<v Speaker 3>That's a big part of it, because, like you say,

503
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:14.200
<v Speaker 3>you look at the list and it's amazing the ones

504
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:18.920
<v Speaker 3>that you've seen and recognize as characters, how much different

505
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.880
<v Speaker 3>they can be, the range of character that he's playing,

506
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:25.759
<v Speaker 3>and in retrospect, it's interesting he brought up The Shining.

507
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.920
<v Speaker 3>When The Shining came out, it was a hit with audiences,

508
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:36.920
<v Speaker 3>but was land baseded by critics and most people definitely

509
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:42.759
<v Speaker 3>jumped on Nicholson's performance as being over the top and

510
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:48.400
<v Speaker 3>totally ridiculous. Now in retrospect, it's considered one of the

511
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:53.799
<v Speaker 3>top rated horror films, and he is an essential part

512
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:58.640
<v Speaker 3>of that, of course, playing the main character. But at

513
00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:02.359
<v Speaker 3>the time it was Jack is just playing Jack. He's

514
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:06.920
<v Speaker 3>taking the money. And really that was the key to

515
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:11.000
<v Speaker 3>the role, is how he pushed himself to be that

516
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:17.720
<v Speaker 3>guy who was really becoming unhinged. And I don't know,

517
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.039
<v Speaker 3>I mean, how could you not be you say, over

518
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.240
<v Speaker 3>the time, Well, what's over the top when somebody's lost

519
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:22.799
<v Speaker 3>their mind.

520
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, see, that's the thing. I believed he was a

521
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:28.480
<v Speaker 2>guy who lost his mind. As a kid, I'm looking

522
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:31.480
<v Speaker 2>at him thinking to myself, this isn't you know, overacting

523
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:34.799
<v Speaker 2>or anything. I got sucked into it. I mean the

524
00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:37.720
<v Speaker 2>atmosphere of the movie did that too, But Nicholson as

525
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:39.400
<v Speaker 2>the character. I mean a lot of people point to

526
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:42.319
<v Speaker 2>Shelley Winter and how she was reacting, and people have

527
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.799
<v Speaker 2>said that, you know, people were making her nuts off

528
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.839
<v Speaker 2>off camera, so that she reacted that way and everything else.

529
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:52.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't think Nicholson needed all that, although probably he

530
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:57.599
<v Speaker 2>was being prodded along too during that filming. But nonetheless,

531
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, incredible range and I just now remember where

532
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:02.960
<v Speaker 2>he's a mob boss it's in a movie called The Departed,

533
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:08.759
<v Speaker 2>a totally different kind of character. Again, I don't remember

534
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:12.200
<v Speaker 2>how successful They Departed was exactly, but I think it

535
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:16.839
<v Speaker 2>was fairly successful with critics. Not necessarily that he was

536
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:20.480
<v Speaker 2>the main character, but he was a consistent character throughout

537
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:22.559
<v Speaker 2>the movie, right, right.

538
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:28.480
<v Speaker 3>And actually the character is based on Whitey Bulger, who

539
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:34.480
<v Speaker 3>was that guy who disappeared who was a mobster in

540
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.680
<v Speaker 3>Boston and he disappeared for I don't know, twenty five

541
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:39.000
<v Speaker 3>years something like that.

542
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Irish gangster that they based the movie Black

543
00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Mass on. Yeah, and he.

544
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:48.319
<v Speaker 3>Was finally found. I think it's San Diego or something

545
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:51.839
<v Speaker 3>like that. And one of the funny things is he

546
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:56.200
<v Speaker 3>was seen going to see that Departed because somebody says, hey,

547
00:33:56.359 --> 00:34:00.119
<v Speaker 3>isn't that guy who's been missing for twenty five years? Well.

548
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.720
<v Speaker 2>The other funny part about that, of course, is that, uh,

549
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:05.839
<v Speaker 2>you know, when when all the stuff came out, the

550
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:09.000
<v Speaker 2>guy was like cooperating, but he was cooperating to basically

551
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:14.840
<v Speaker 2>eliminate his criminal enemies, right, and Boston based Irish gangster,

552
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, or I should say, uh, New England based

553
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:23.719
<v Speaker 2>uh gangster Irish though, fascinating and uh, what is it.

554
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Johnny Depp is in both of those, right is he in? Uh?

555
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:30.960
<v Speaker 3>No, he was in that other film. Uh that was

556
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:36.480
<v Speaker 3>bored obviously about Whitey Bulger by name. Yeah, that's it, right, Uh,

557
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:41.199
<v Speaker 3>the Departed Wash Wahlberg.

558
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:45.039
<v Speaker 2>And right Wahlberg and uh and the other way. The

559
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.400
<v Speaker 2>thing was that that thing read as a dark comedy

560
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.360
<v Speaker 2>to me. Uh, I don't know what you thought of it,

561
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:52.679
<v Speaker 2>but and I don't know how they classified it, you know,

562
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.840
<v Speaker 2>film wise, but to me, it almost seemed like a

563
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:57.639
<v Speaker 2>dark comedy. And Nicholson's a big part of that. I

564
00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:59.840
<v Speaker 2>find a lot of what he's doing in that movie

565
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:02.960
<v Speaker 2>to be yeah, darkly comedic.

566
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:08.320
<v Speaker 3>Right. That was his contribution to that. And I don't

567
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:11.159
<v Speaker 3>think that even the director knew that was going to happen.

568
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:13.639
<v Speaker 3>There was a scene where he pulls a gun in

569
00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:18.400
<v Speaker 3>the diner, and that was not in the script. He

570
00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:23.559
<v Speaker 3>decided that the day earlier it wasn't intense enough and

571
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:26.000
<v Speaker 3>he wasn't getting the reaction from I think it was

572
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.360
<v Speaker 3>DiCaprio and the scene, and so he just pulls his

573
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.559
<v Speaker 3>gun out and everybody's looking at h. I really, WHOA.

574
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:35.679
<v Speaker 3>This is a whole other level. And that's the kind

575
00:35:35.719 --> 00:35:39.199
<v Speaker 3>of thing that he would do. He considers himself a

576
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:47.039
<v Speaker 3>method actor, and his costume and knowledge about the era

577
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:50.559
<v Speaker 3>the movie where it is, what was happening at that time,

578
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:53.360
<v Speaker 3>what the characters are like, if there were real people,

579
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:56.360
<v Speaker 3>what they were like, what they sounded like, what they

580
00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:59.719
<v Speaker 3>dressed like. And one of the things that I heard

581
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:02.159
<v Speaker 3>from all the people that I interviewed who had worked

582
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:07.119
<v Speaker 3>with him is his commitment to research and finding out

583
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:12.679
<v Speaker 3>as much as possible and then going for it. That

584
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:16.199
<v Speaker 3>he never pulls any punches or go in and do

585
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:19.679
<v Speaker 3>whatever it takes to make that scene special or to

586
00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:24.599
<v Speaker 3>make that character memorable. And that combination of the hard

587
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:30.320
<v Speaker 3>work in preparation and the intensity in giving the performance

588
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:34.760
<v Speaker 3>has been very successful for him. And that diversity of

589
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.800
<v Speaker 3>kind of roles that you talk about when you say, well,

590
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.360
<v Speaker 3>here's a pretty good year for you. For instance, how

591
00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:45.039
<v Speaker 3>about it one year I do Chinatown and I do

592
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:49.639
<v Speaker 3>One Flow over the Cuckoo's Nest. That's a pretty good year.

593
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.119
<v Speaker 2>See I didn't even mention One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest,

594
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:54.199
<v Speaker 2>but I was about to go there and start jumping

595
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:57.320
<v Speaker 2>around because there's another one of these movies that I'm

596
00:36:57.360 --> 00:36:59.639
<v Speaker 2>not so certain how big of a box office thing

597
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:04.079
<v Speaker 2>it was, but it became like a huge standard, right.

598
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:06.559
<v Speaker 2>It was one of those movies that it's like they

599
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:10.440
<v Speaker 2>started marking other movies by it. And he's had various

600
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:14.199
<v Speaker 2>time periods where I know, the critics loved him. Then

601
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:16.280
<v Speaker 2>he had other time periods where they didn't love him

602
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:20.039
<v Speaker 2>so much. But he consistently performs one way or another,

603
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:22.480
<v Speaker 2>which I find interesting. I mean, if you look at

604
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:25.840
<v Speaker 2>the string from eighty one to eighty five, right, I

605
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:28.800
<v Speaker 2>remember very carefully. Now, maybe they weren't into The Postman

606
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:32.519
<v Speaker 2>Always Rings twice, but Red's was a big thing with

607
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:35.880
<v Speaker 2>the critics, and in terms of endearment was huge with

608
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:40.280
<v Speaker 2>the critics, and I enjoyed Pritzy's honor. Now, I don't know,

609
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:43.159
<v Speaker 2>maybe that wasn't as big with the critics, but it

610
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.199
<v Speaker 2>seems to me as though he's got a time period

611
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.679
<v Speaker 2>where there's almost a off again and on again romance

612
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:53.000
<v Speaker 2>with film critics, right, where sometimes he's great and other

613
00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:56.760
<v Speaker 2>times he's, you know, ridiculous, but you let it sit

614
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:59.599
<v Speaker 2>for a little while, and the critics are proven wrong

615
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:02.639
<v Speaker 2>on the ridiculous angle every time. I mean, even going

616
00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:06.000
<v Speaker 2>back to the Shining nowadays, nobody would argue with you

617
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:10.119
<v Speaker 2>that Nicholson did anything wrong right in that.

618
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.039
<v Speaker 3>Movie except for Stephen King.

619
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, Stephen King doesn't like it right, right.

620
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:19.440
<v Speaker 3>He didn't like it, and he was against Nicholson. And

621
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:22.280
<v Speaker 3>the longer from the production of the movie, the more

622
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:25.400
<v Speaker 3>he would make a big deal out of it. And

623
00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:27.840
<v Speaker 3>I think a lot of it's for show. And as

624
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:31.039
<v Speaker 3>the saying is, he takes the money. It probably has

625
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:33.480
<v Speaker 3>made him more money than any single thing that he's done.

626
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:41.119
<v Speaker 3>Is that particular film. They did a terrible TV movie

627
00:38:41.239 --> 00:38:45.719
<v Speaker 3>that King was involved in because he always had Oh well,

628
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:48.199
<v Speaker 3>I didn't like the way it was. I didn't like Nicholson,

629
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:51.000
<v Speaker 3>so he did his own version and it was horrible.

630
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:57.719
<v Speaker 3>It's unwatchable. It's humorous in spots, right, So Stephen King

631
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:00.920
<v Speaker 3>probably should stick to the writing part and not being

632
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:02.039
<v Speaker 3>the film critic part.

633
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely. And I'll tell you something else. I don't

634
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.719
<v Speaker 2>take anything Stephen King takes seriously after he did eleven

635
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:11.719
<v Speaker 2>twenty two sixty three. So, uh that that is a

636
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:15.920
<v Speaker 2>ridiculous one. Oh my goodness, Well good on you. I mean,

637
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.800
<v Speaker 2>unless you want to watch something about time travel. Uh,

638
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:20.559
<v Speaker 2>And if you want to watch time travel in the

639
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:24.199
<v Speaker 2>jfk Assassination. I suggest you go and look at the

640
00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:28.199
<v Speaker 2>eighties or whatever rebooted Twilight Zone they did on it,

641
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:31.280
<v Speaker 2>because that is more entertaining than Stephen King's movie and

642
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:33.760
<v Speaker 2>won't take up as much of your day. Uh, because

643
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:35.480
<v Speaker 2>they made a little series out of that, I think

644
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:39.480
<v Speaker 2>for Hulu or whatever. But it was almost unwatchable to me.

645
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:42.480
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, the book is almost unreadable. And

646
00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:45.840
<v Speaker 2>it's not because they're just blaming Oswald. It's just it's

647
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:50.800
<v Speaker 2>just a pointless waste of time. So there's my critics

648
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:55.199
<v Speaker 2>criticism for the day. But and he's still still active.

649
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:59.559
<v Speaker 2>It looks like to me he's producing stuff. And if

650
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:03.360
<v Speaker 2>you others right, I mean, how far since your book

651
00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:06.159
<v Speaker 2>was published a few years ago, you had to have

652
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:09.199
<v Speaker 2>ended off what around twenty seventeen.

653
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:14.000
<v Speaker 3>Yes, but he hasn't worked since then. He's last film

654
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:19.320
<v Speaker 3>was really as a favor. It was a rom com

655
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:22.599
<v Speaker 3>and he played a small role in it called how

656
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:26.400
<v Speaker 3>Do You Know? It had Owen Wilson and the Reese Witherspoon.

657
00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:29.840
<v Speaker 3>I thought it was terrible, but I was obligated to

658
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:32.480
<v Speaker 3>watch it, you know, three or four times, because that's

659
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:35.360
<v Speaker 3>part of the process of doing the book, but he

660
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:40.440
<v Speaker 3>hasn't worked since then. He never said he retired. I

661
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:44.800
<v Speaker 3>think because and this is only a guess on my part,

662
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:50.239
<v Speaker 3>that just wanted to with dignity stop working but not

663
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:53.119
<v Speaker 3>bring attention to himself and says, you know, I'm going

664
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:57.840
<v Speaker 3>on on my last tour, you know, like the rock

665
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:02.320
<v Speaker 3>stars do with They're Never ending fur. Yeah, he just

666
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:04.400
<v Speaker 3>bowed out quietly. Yeah.

667
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.519
<v Speaker 2>The Rolling Stones I think was it nineteen eighty nine

668
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:09.920
<v Speaker 2>or something, we're supposed to start their final tour. I

669
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:13.760
<v Speaker 2>think they'll be on tour this year again or maybe next.

670
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:16.679
<v Speaker 2>We'll see if they you know, if two or three

671
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:20.239
<v Speaker 2>of them survive. I think they're gonna try. It just

672
00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:23.800
<v Speaker 2>is the way it is. But what's fascinating is there's

673
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:26.199
<v Speaker 2>something called Blue Champagne coming up. I don't know if

674
00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:28.280
<v Speaker 2>you know anything about that. It says that he's the

675
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:31.519
<v Speaker 2>producer for it, and I mean I know zero about it.

676
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:34.960
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, a couple other things where he gets some

677
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:39.960
<v Speaker 2>special thanks in Jill and Jack and supermnch and what's

678
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.000
<v Speaker 2>that sound on my head? It's just a thanks from

679
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:47.079
<v Speaker 2>the director, I guess in a short right.

680
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:52.840
<v Speaker 3>But he hasn't actually worked since I know, twenty early

681
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:56.320
<v Speaker 3>twenty ten something like that, right, right.

682
00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:59.320
<v Speaker 2>And I mean with the retrospectives of Chinatown. I mean

683
00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:02.719
<v Speaker 2>there's some new archibal footage out there, but maybe but

684
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:07.400
<v Speaker 2>outside of that, yeah, I mean, but still long, very

685
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:11.400
<v Speaker 2>long career. So let me transition into the other thing

686
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:12.000
<v Speaker 2>I wanted.

687
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:14.280
<v Speaker 3>To talk to you about, though, because.

688
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:17.239
<v Speaker 2>Listeners to my show are well familiar with the idea

689
00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:20.159
<v Speaker 2>that you know, Stanley Kubrick is the guy who faked

690
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:24.880
<v Speaker 2>the moon landing footage. This kind of thing. Now, I

691
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:26.920
<v Speaker 2>don't discuss that on my show.

692
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:31.199
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Yeah, let's keep it that way. Yeah, there are

693
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:35.039
<v Speaker 3>two there are two things about Kubrick that I would

694
00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:38.480
<v Speaker 3>wish people would just get tired of bringing up. That's

695
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:40.920
<v Speaker 3>one of them, okay. And the other one is how

696
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:46.119
<v Speaker 3>Kubrick supposedly contributed to the mental illness of Shelley Duvau

697
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:50.719
<v Speaker 3>after doing the Shining, which is easily debunked because after

698
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:54.000
<v Speaker 3>that she continued to work and even a few years

699
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:58.880
<v Speaker 3>after that created it was an executive producer was the

700
00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:03.639
<v Speaker 3>one of the writers and host and actors on an

701
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:07.960
<v Speaker 3>HBO series, Fairytale Theater, which ran for about four or

702
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:13.320
<v Speaker 3>five seasons. This was after she supposedly was ruined by Kubrick.

703
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:19.679
<v Speaker 3>So I think even a logical looking at the situation

704
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:23.360
<v Speaker 3>would say, well, maybe that's not the case. How could

705
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:27.599
<v Speaker 3>you create a series and be the main creative force

706
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:31.679
<v Speaker 3>behind it when you've been ruined by the director four

707
00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:32.480
<v Speaker 3>years earlier.

708
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:37.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I do believe that he might have done

709
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:40.480
<v Speaker 2>things to increase the tension, maybe gotten or exhausted, and

710
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:42.960
<v Speaker 2>maybe if you talked to her right after filming The Shining,

711
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:47.480
<v Speaker 2>you might have thought that he contributed to her problems, but.

712
00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:51.880
<v Speaker 3>She would that part is true. And there's a documentary

713
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:56.519
<v Speaker 3>that Kubrick's daughter actually put together on The Shining, and

714
00:43:56.599 --> 00:44:00.400
<v Speaker 3>you could see that Kubrick is actually put shoing at

715
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:03.559
<v Speaker 3>her pretty hard and not being all that nice to her.

716
00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:09.199
<v Speaker 3>But every interview she ever did for the subject of

717
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:13.440
<v Speaker 3>Stanley Kuber came up, she always said that she was

718
00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:16.840
<v Speaker 3>glad she worked on it, and that it was though

719
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:19.559
<v Speaker 3>very tough, because she had to cry all the time

720
00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:22.440
<v Speaker 3>and be scared all the time in the film, So

721
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:27.639
<v Speaker 3>it was physically taxing every day to be in hysterics.

722
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.639
<v Speaker 3>Isn't that easy to do? And if you try doing it,

723
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:34.719
<v Speaker 3>you eventually become that way. So temporarily. She was probably

724
00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:39.480
<v Speaker 3>negatively impacted by it. But in every interview I've ever

725
00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:43.800
<v Speaker 3>seen or heard about, she always talked about Kubrick in

726
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:46.159
<v Speaker 3>a positive way and said, yeah, it was tough on me,

727
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:49.840
<v Speaker 3>but I was always glad I did it right.

728
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.519
<v Speaker 2>And the thing is, look, if The Shining was released

729
00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:56.719
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty, a five year run from eighty two

730
00:44:56.760 --> 00:45:00.960
<v Speaker 2>to eighty seven of a fairytale theater you're talking about,

731
00:45:01.320 --> 00:45:03.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, they did some basic stuff, the frog prints,

732
00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:07.280
<v Speaker 2>this kind of thing. You know, would she have been

733
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:11.360
<v Speaker 2>capable of participating in that production. Probably not if she

734
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:14.440
<v Speaker 2>was really in that bad of shape. So she did

735
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.880
<v Speaker 2>continue to work, and I know she had other roles too.

736
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:18.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm not going to go pull up her

737
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:21.679
<v Speaker 2>IMDb right now, but you know, okay, so those are

738
00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:24.960
<v Speaker 2>the two things that you'd like people to stop saying,

739
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:29.920
<v Speaker 2>right Well, could you just give me one of the

740
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:35.440
<v Speaker 2>best reasons why the Kubrick faking the footage and all

741
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:37.760
<v Speaker 2>that makes no sense? Could you just do me that

742
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:42.559
<v Speaker 2>favor so I have that to keep with my listeners.

743
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:45.760
<v Speaker 3>For one thing, you wouldn't need a Stanley Kubrick to

744
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:49.840
<v Speaker 3>do that. Oh you would need is some something that

745
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:55.280
<v Speaker 3>technically would make that possible. He's a great director of

746
00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:59.519
<v Speaker 3>narrative drama. You don't need that to do that job.

747
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:04.480
<v Speaker 3>Have anybody who has technical prowess and the amount of

748
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.440
<v Speaker 3>money that it would take to build a stage set

749
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:12.840
<v Speaker 3>that looks realistic and technicians to pull off shooting it.

750
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.960
<v Speaker 3>You don't need a great director to do that. So

751
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:19.039
<v Speaker 3>where that came from. I know there's little stippets of

752
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:24.159
<v Speaker 3>things like the sweater that Danny Lloyd is playing wearing

753
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:26.400
<v Speaker 3>in the Shining where it's got a Power eleven on

754
00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:29.920
<v Speaker 3>it that's supposed to be a clue. But like a

755
00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:33.840
<v Speaker 3>lot of those, Paul is dead clues, I think Paul's alive.

756
00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:34.760
<v Speaker 3>I'm pretty sure.

757
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, that's another weird thing where they you know,

758
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:41.840
<v Speaker 2>this guy was replaced by somebody. There was a car accident,

759
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:45.960
<v Speaker 2>oh man, you know, and at the end of the day,

760
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:48.039
<v Speaker 2>I almost want to know what the point of it is.

761
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.199
<v Speaker 2>You know, if the moon landing was faked, like you said,

762
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.320
<v Speaker 2>you wouldn't need Stanley Kubrick, but you would need a

763
00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:54.599
<v Speaker 2>good visual effects guy.

764
00:46:55.400 --> 00:46:59.159
<v Speaker 3>Right right now, there's a book devoted to this that

765
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:02.360
<v Speaker 3>debunks everything, all the all the things that people bring

766
00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:05.519
<v Speaker 3>up and say, oh, this is the proof and the

767
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:08.639
<v Speaker 3>why is the flag not moving? And all this other stuff.

768
00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:12.960
<v Speaker 3>There's a book by a guy named Philip Platt P

769
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:17.880
<v Speaker 3>L a T. T. And it's about this debunking the hoax,

770
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:22.320
<v Speaker 3>and we used to look at that and he dresses

771
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:27.920
<v Speaker 3>everything with great logic and says, no, you know, it's

772
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:30.880
<v Speaker 3>different because there's no atmosphere. You know, there a lot

773
00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:35.960
<v Speaker 3>of things that somebody who's smart enough, who isn't somebody

774
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:40.000
<v Speaker 3>who just likes making up crap because it sounds interesting.

775
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:43.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how it became a big deal, you know,

776
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:46.119
<v Speaker 3>it was I had heard it and then it just

777
00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:51.039
<v Speaker 3>never died. But my thought about the final the final

778
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:55.960
<v Speaker 3>point made on this particular subject was you might have

779
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:59.960
<v Speaker 3>seen this footage, but buzz Aldron, who was the same

780
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:03.480
<v Speaker 3>guys stepped on the moon, right and it's still alive.

781
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.519
<v Speaker 3>He was being followed by some jerk off for the camera,

782
00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:14.079
<v Speaker 3>endlessly being harangued about this prove that you're on the moon.

783
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:19.280
<v Speaker 3>So one point he turns around and he's, you know,

784
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:22.320
<v Speaker 3>eighty two years old at the time, and this guy's

785
00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:25.679
<v Speaker 3>in the prime of his life. He's taller than buzz

786
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:29.400
<v Speaker 3>Old Buzz turns around, slugs the guy knocks him out

787
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:35.800
<v Speaker 3>and walks away. That's the ultimate answer to that particular question. Yeah,

788
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.519
<v Speaker 3>I do do a buzz alder, and that.

789
00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:42.239
<v Speaker 2>Guy does a podcast now by the way, and continues

790
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:47.280
<v Speaker 2>on with he does, and it just you know, people

791
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:50.679
<v Speaker 2>ask me about what about this? Oh my god, I

792
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:53.440
<v Speaker 2>it's one of those things I just shake my head at,

793
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:58.519
<v Speaker 2>you know. But anyway, what inspired the work on the

794
00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:01.320
<v Speaker 2>podcast though about? I mean, there's a lot of people

795
00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:04.239
<v Speaker 2>who've done stuff about that, but you've also done the

796
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:07.960
<v Speaker 2>participated in this podcast. What happened there with you?

797
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:11.960
<v Speaker 3>Well, I've always been on a couple episodes of it.

798
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.840
<v Speaker 3>There are over seventy episodes of the podcast called Kubrick's

799
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:22.960
<v Speaker 3>Universe the Late Yeah Kubricks Universe, and it's any podcasting

800
00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:26.039
<v Speaker 3>way that you choose to get yours, as well as

801
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:31.400
<v Speaker 3>on YouTube. The latest edition was a chat with Shelley

802
00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:36.079
<v Speaker 3>Duval that they put together and were able to the

803
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:39.000
<v Speaker 3>sound quality of it wasn't great at the time, but

804
00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:45.960
<v Speaker 3>there's been advancements and another overused turn ai Or allowed

805
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:49.159
<v Speaker 3>people to work on that interview and get it so

806
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:52.559
<v Speaker 3>you could hear Shelley's comments during that that was the

807
00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:56.519
<v Speaker 3>latest edition, and like I said, there've been over seventy.

808
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:01.639
<v Speaker 3>There's a segment of a series of shows that have

809
00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:07.519
<v Speaker 3>been devoted to each of the thirteen films that Kubrick directed.

810
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:12.119
<v Speaker 3>Four of those have been put out and the remainder

811
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:15.320
<v Speaker 3>of them have yet to be had the post production

812
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:18.440
<v Speaker 3>done on them, and so they'll be out. So my

813
00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:21.519
<v Speaker 3>only participation thus far has been in those first couple.

814
00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:24.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm on the other ones. But the way it works

815
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:29.639
<v Speaker 3>is it's a group of people were either been a

816
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:34.360
<v Speaker 3>part of the industry. There's a film critic, they're authors

817
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:38.880
<v Speaker 3>on film, but also people are students of Stanley Kubrick's

818
00:50:38.920 --> 00:50:42.559
<v Speaker 3>work get together once a week as part of something

819
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:49.119
<v Speaker 3>called Stanley Kubrick Appreciation Society, and we have a topic

820
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:54.679
<v Speaker 3>each week and go over it. And sometimes it's reading

821
00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:59.719
<v Speaker 3>together a book about making a bis Wade shut. Sometimes

822
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:05.280
<v Speaker 3>it's the it will be we'll watch a documentary together

823
00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:10.920
<v Speaker 3>and comment on that, take breaks, and the part of

824
00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:13.039
<v Speaker 3>the history of this is that we did in an

825
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:17.519
<v Speaker 3>episode each on the thirteen films. So I'm not really

826
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:21.199
<v Speaker 3>involved in the podcast itself other than being part of

827
00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:25.239
<v Speaker 3>the discussion of the round robin discussion that became a

828
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:28.800
<v Speaker 3>couple of these thus far. But every week. You know,

829
00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:33.400
<v Speaker 3>it's really great to talk with people who have a

830
00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:36.760
<v Speaker 3>really intense interest in the same subject. And you know

831
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:40.360
<v Speaker 3>this for having been involved and JFK. Lancer and some

832
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:44.239
<v Speaker 3>of the in your show, that there's really something great

833
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:48.320
<v Speaker 3>about people coming together who have a lot of knowledge

834
00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:53.440
<v Speaker 3>about a particular subject and respect one another's opinions so

835
00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:57.280
<v Speaker 3>that we when we get together, it's by zoom and

836
00:51:57.320 --> 00:52:03.239
<v Speaker 3>there might be anywhere between seven to twelve people on

837
00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:07.320
<v Speaker 3>a particular week having these get togethers and discussions for

838
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:11.239
<v Speaker 3>about an hour half each week, and we learn from

839
00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:15.280
<v Speaker 3>one another. Everybody's got a different insight. Somebody spoke with

840
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.039
<v Speaker 3>somebody who knew this, somebody read this book, somebody saw

841
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:23.320
<v Speaker 3>this documentary, and it's really great to see how it's

842
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:29.920
<v Speaker 3>a complementary process where all these people take a turn

843
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:33.800
<v Speaker 3>and talk about their particular insight and then that I'll

844
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:36.719
<v Speaker 3>bring a thought from somebody else. So well, now that

845
00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:40.679
<v Speaker 3>you mention this, there's that, and it's tremendously enjoyable. I'm

846
00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:45.119
<v Speaker 3>glad that I really stumbled upon it, and I'm glad

847
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:48.199
<v Speaker 3>that I'm part of it. Just about every week this

848
00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:52.159
<v Speaker 3>discussion and some of which have turned into podcasts.

849
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Right well, I'll tell you if we tried that in

850
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:57.599
<v Speaker 2>JFK Land, though, you can never put seven of us together.

851
00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:00.880
<v Speaker 3>Because real yeah, light with each other.

852
00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:04.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm wondering about, you know, the coverage of Eyes Wide

853
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Shut though, because there again is something else that used

854
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:10.880
<v Speaker 2>to come up in what was alternative media a lot

855
00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:14.519
<v Speaker 2>because of its you know, connection to the the elites,

856
00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:18.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, and this kind of thing. There's been a

857
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:22.519
<v Speaker 2>bit of a metamorphosis in conspiracy culture, i will call it.

858
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:25.639
<v Speaker 2>Over the past few years. Things have changed a lot.

859
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:28.920
<v Speaker 2>And you know, it might have been that they were

860
00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:31.400
<v Speaker 2>discussing this is what you know, rich people do and

861
00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:36.119
<v Speaker 2>the sex parties and all that kind of stuff. You know,

862
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:39.079
<v Speaker 2>did you guys do an episode on that yet or

863
00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:41.000
<v Speaker 2>is that coming in the future. Do you know?

864
00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:45.320
<v Speaker 3>We've just we've discussed Eyes Wide Shut actually over the

865
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:51.920
<v Speaker 3>last few months, pardon me, and we're doing a group watch. Well,

866
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:55.199
<v Speaker 3>we take a couple of scenes and then discuss the scenes.

867
00:53:55.239 --> 00:53:57.440
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it is a Christmas movie after all, so

868
00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:00.960
<v Speaker 3>it's that time of year to really joy Eyes Wide

869
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:05.280
<v Speaker 3>Shut as part of your family viewing. And so we'll

870
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:07.480
<v Speaker 3>be discussing that, and one of the aspects, as you

871
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:12.400
<v Speaker 3>bring up, is the social stratification different levels that we

872
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:16.480
<v Speaker 3>really don't think of as being part of the way

873
00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:19.400
<v Speaker 3>things are in the US and think of that, we think, oh,

874
00:54:19.480 --> 00:54:22.280
<v Speaker 3>that's something that people in England are like and people

875
00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:24.719
<v Speaker 3>in India. But we do have that. And in the

876
00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:28.559
<v Speaker 3>film the doctor played by he lives in the upper

877
00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:31.760
<v Speaker 3>west side of Central Park, so he obviously has a

878
00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:32.400
<v Speaker 3>lot of money.

879
00:54:32.679 --> 00:54:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, have to live there. I mean, I

880
00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:36.119
<v Speaker 2>lived in New York City, but I lived on the

881
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:39.679
<v Speaker 2>Lower east Side and was lucky to have landed there.

882
00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:43.000
<v Speaker 2>But the upper west side, forget it. You're talking about

883
00:54:43.159 --> 00:54:46.440
<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of cash to own something over there

884
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:49.679
<v Speaker 2>or to even rent it. Yeah. Good.

885
00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:54.320
<v Speaker 3>And even though that's the case, he's the doctor of

886
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:56.880
<v Speaker 3>people who are at a higher level than he is,

887
00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:04.199
<v Speaker 3>represented by the Sydney Pollack character. So he who is

888
00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:09.320
<v Speaker 3>I think a venture capitalist or something like that. So

889
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:12.960
<v Speaker 3>Tom Cruise is at a high level compared to you

890
00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:18.559
<v Speaker 3>and I, but the Polla character is higher level social

891
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:23.199
<v Speaker 3>stratification than Cruise is. And then the people at the party,

892
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:27.920
<v Speaker 3>one of whom is the Sydney Pollack character, are those

893
00:55:28.039 --> 00:55:30.960
<v Speaker 3>at yet another high level, which is the people who

894
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:35.280
<v Speaker 3>run everything. So that's what you're talking about where people

895
00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:38.159
<v Speaker 3>are thinking about, say the illuminati and that sort of thing.

896
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:43.039
<v Speaker 3>And that's certainly a valid interpretation of what's going on

897
00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:47.519
<v Speaker 3>there because in the scene in the pool room where

898
00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:52.559
<v Speaker 3>Sidney Pollack is warning the Tom Cruise character, you don't

899
00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:55.360
<v Speaker 3>know what you're up against. If you knew who these

900
00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:58.400
<v Speaker 3>people were, you wouldn't be able to sleep well at night.

901
00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:02.440
<v Speaker 3>And that's his way of saying, you know, these are

902
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:08.440
<v Speaker 3>presidents and prime ministers and people who run corporations and

903
00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:12.679
<v Speaker 3>so on, and those are the people who are there, right,

904
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:16.239
<v Speaker 3>and that's what they do. And as you see in

905
00:56:16.239 --> 00:56:21.840
<v Speaker 3>the movie, you know, some people get killed and then

906
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:25.880
<v Speaker 3>they're forgotten. Well you get away with that sort of

907
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:27.039
<v Speaker 3>thing if you're at that level.

908
00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Well see, and there you go. There is the privilege

909
00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:34.559
<v Speaker 2>that you get at different levels of the strata, right.

910
00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:38.280
<v Speaker 2>And that's an interesting thing that I mean, was that

911
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:44.639
<v Speaker 2>Kubrick's intent with this to really give people a metaphorical

912
00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:47.400
<v Speaker 2>glance at it? Or do you think he was going

913
00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:50.400
<v Speaker 2>for a literal glance? I mean, what are your thoughts

914
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:50.599
<v Speaker 2>on it?

915
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:55.800
<v Speaker 3>I think that that's definitely part of one of the

916
00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:58.360
<v Speaker 3>subtexts of the film, and it's not the first time

917
00:56:58.360 --> 00:57:01.880
<v Speaker 3>he's taken on that kind of subject. Has a Glory,

918
00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:04.039
<v Speaker 3>for instance, which happens to be my favorite of the

919
00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:08.679
<v Speaker 3>Kubrick films, had that as an essential feature, which was

920
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:12.079
<v Speaker 3>if you've ever seen the films that takes place during

921
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:17.000
<v Speaker 3>World War One in France, and you have the generals

922
00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:19.960
<v Speaker 3>all living in this opulence set up in this palace,

923
00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:22.800
<v Speaker 3>and then you cut to the scenes of the people

924
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:25.960
<v Speaker 3>who are really doing the work in the fox holes

925
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:31.119
<v Speaker 3>and they're living, in a literal sense, in mud, whereas

926
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:34.000
<v Speaker 3>these people are living in these palaces and there's this

927
00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:38.760
<v Speaker 3>real contrast between how clean and big and it's all marble,

928
00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:42.239
<v Speaker 3>and they have the best food and everything looks like,

929
00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:46.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, like a wonderland basically, and then the people

930
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:50.760
<v Speaker 3>in the who are fighting the war are living terribly

931
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:57.039
<v Speaker 3>and they're just being sacrificed day after day worthlessly. Well.

932
00:57:57.079 --> 00:57:59.440
<v Speaker 2>I think there was a lot of nuances and statements

933
00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:02.760
<v Speaker 2>in a film that you know, some people often ignore,

934
00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:06.400
<v Speaker 2>which I feel like it's two films and one which

935
00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:10.559
<v Speaker 2>is full metal Jacket. You know, I wonder if you

936
00:58:10.599 --> 00:58:13.079
<v Speaker 2>have any views on that because to me that was

937
00:58:13.599 --> 00:58:17.639
<v Speaker 2>that is my favorite Kubrick film, by the way, because

938
00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:20.159
<v Speaker 2>it speaks to a lot of the things that that

939
00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:23.679
<v Speaker 2>I believe are relevant and have carried through well beyond

940
00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:28.079
<v Speaker 2>the period that he's representing there, which is obviously the

941
00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:32.199
<v Speaker 2>Vietnam War and all that. And I feel a personal

942
00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:34.559
<v Speaker 2>connection to some of the stuff going on in that film.

943
00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:38.719
<v Speaker 2>But he's got various statements going on there, you know

944
00:58:38.840 --> 00:58:41.159
<v Speaker 2>in my mind? What do you have any thoughts on

945
00:58:41.199 --> 00:58:42.039
<v Speaker 2>Full Metal Jacket?

946
00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:47.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's an interesting film. I don't hope you've seen

947
00:58:47.480 --> 00:58:52.519
<v Speaker 3>any of the part of me analysis film is done

948
00:58:52.519 --> 00:58:57.119
<v Speaker 3>by a guy named Rob Ager. He's done a lot

949
00:58:57.159 --> 00:59:00.920
<v Speaker 3>of Kubrick and other work, and he does a lot

950
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:03.039
<v Speaker 3>of them are free on YouTube to see, but he

951
00:59:03.079 --> 00:59:06.239
<v Speaker 3>also sells them on a site, and he does a

952
00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:11.320
<v Speaker 3>good deal of analysis on Full Metal Jacket and the

953
00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:17.800
<v Speaker 3>two film part. One of the theories is that the Pile character,

954
00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:22.320
<v Speaker 3>the guy who offs himself in the bathroom, that he

955
00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:29.440
<v Speaker 3>is he becomes or is represented by the animal mother

956
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:34.079
<v Speaker 3>character in the second half, the guy played by Adam Baldwin,

957
00:59:35.480 --> 00:59:40.079
<v Speaker 3>and that that character represents what Pile could have become

958
00:59:40.239 --> 00:59:44.159
<v Speaker 3>if he continued to commit himself because he was becoming

959
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:47.880
<v Speaker 3>a better soldier, he was catching on, but by that

960
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:51.079
<v Speaker 3>time he had been ruined. And so part of the

961
00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:55.199
<v Speaker 3>theory is that he's really almost like a reincarnation of

962
00:59:55.239 --> 01:00:00.320
<v Speaker 3>the Pile character in the second half. Okay, a lot

963
01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:04.000
<v Speaker 3>of interesting things going on in that film. Yeah, And

964
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:08.920
<v Speaker 3>people sometimes take the second half and go, oh, it's

965
01:00:08.920 --> 01:00:11.719
<v Speaker 3>not that hot, But really, when you really think about

966
01:00:11.719 --> 01:00:15.199
<v Speaker 3>what's going on there and what's happening to these characters

967
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:18.239
<v Speaker 3>who've become attached to in the first half, it is

968
01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:22.440
<v Speaker 3>harrowing and quite interesting. I'm not sure why people write

969
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:23.920
<v Speaker 3>it off so frequently.

970
01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I don't know how they could write

971
01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:28.760
<v Speaker 2>off the second half, considering we got to follow the

972
01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Joker character from boot Camp into you know, a position

973
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:36.599
<v Speaker 2>where he's running around, you know, being a journalist. But

974
01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:39.159
<v Speaker 2>then he winds up doing that whole thing where he

975
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:42.840
<v Speaker 2>executes the sniper. Who is this you know, lone little girl,

976
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, the way I interpret it there, who's just

977
01:00:46.320 --> 01:00:48.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, hiding among the ruins of a place that

978
01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:52.400
<v Speaker 2>once was probably populated and everything else. I mean, there

979
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:55.599
<v Speaker 2>is a lot of statements going on there. When he

980
01:00:55.760 --> 01:00:57.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, turns around and she's saying shoot me and

981
01:00:57.960 --> 01:00:59.159
<v Speaker 2>he does it.

982
01:00:59.400 --> 01:00:59.639
<v Speaker 3>Right.

983
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:02.920
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot happening in that film. I don't see

984
01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:05.119
<v Speaker 2>how you can disconnect the two, but it does feel

985
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:08.719
<v Speaker 2>like two films in one nonetheless, right.

986
01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:11.960
<v Speaker 3>And I think that's intentional to have it be a

987
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:17.880
<v Speaker 3>different flavor. But people always say, or very often say, hey,

988
01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:20.039
<v Speaker 3>I love the first half and the second half not

989
01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:22.599
<v Speaker 3>so much. But I think you have to have that

990
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:25.039
<v Speaker 3>other half in order for the first half to work.

991
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:27.760
<v Speaker 3>You have to see where they go. You see in

992
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:30.920
<v Speaker 3>all this training, you see what it does to them, Well,

993
01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:33.679
<v Speaker 3>how do they handle the situations they're in later? You

994
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:37.519
<v Speaker 3>have to get that part of the story and this

995
01:01:38.119 --> 01:01:41.519
<v Speaker 3>idea of looking at things in an alternative way, like

996
01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:46.159
<v Speaker 3>you talk about as doing this process. When we're doing

997
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:51.440
<v Speaker 3>analysis of the films in the Stanley Kubrick Appreciation Society

998
01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:55.599
<v Speaker 3>and when we did the particular podcast that's not released

999
01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:59.639
<v Speaker 3>yet on Full Metal Jacket. Before we recorded that week,

1000
01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:03.480
<v Speaker 3>I had seen and this was just totally out of nowhere,

1001
01:02:03.559 --> 01:02:08.039
<v Speaker 3>and it made me think about the film differently in

1002
01:02:08.039 --> 01:02:11.679
<v Speaker 3>a very strange way that I had just all of

1003
01:02:11.719 --> 01:02:16.400
<v Speaker 3>a sudden, somebody posted an article on social media about

1004
01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:21.760
<v Speaker 3>the use of music by Kubrick, and you remember the

1005
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.079
<v Speaker 3>end of Doctor Stranger. Loved this ironic ending. We're having

1006
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:29.559
<v Speaker 3>all the blasts going off and we hear the song

1007
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:34.360
<v Speaker 3>We'll Meet Again by Vera Lynn at the end of

1008
01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:39.360
<v Speaker 3>Full Metal Jacket. The song being used is the theme

1009
01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:44.119
<v Speaker 3>of the original Mickey Mouse Club and what we're seeing

1010
01:02:44.119 --> 01:02:48.639
<v Speaker 3>when that happens is we're seeing the platoon return during

1011
01:02:48.679 --> 01:02:53.239
<v Speaker 3>the evening. Everything's on fire and it's a very interesting

1012
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:57.639
<v Speaker 3>and eerie effect. Well, in this article, there happened to

1013
01:02:57.679 --> 01:03:01.440
<v Speaker 3>be a still photo from that scene, and I had

1014
01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:04.360
<v Speaker 3>this thought that and I have to say, it hit

1015
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:09.079
<v Speaker 3>me so intensely that when I discussed it during the podcast,

1016
01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:14.480
<v Speaker 3>I actually broke down because of how emotionally it grabbed me.

1017
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:18.599
<v Speaker 3>Was that My interpretation of it was that if you

1018
01:03:18.639 --> 01:03:21.239
<v Speaker 3>look at that image, if you remember, since you say

1019
01:03:21.239 --> 01:03:25.039
<v Speaker 3>it's your favorite Kubrick movie, you've seen enough to know

1020
01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:29.599
<v Speaker 3>what I'm talking about. The soldiers are all in silhouette,

1021
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:31.920
<v Speaker 3>you don't see them, and they're singing.

1022
01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:34.000
<v Speaker 2>And that fire is all in the background, like you said,

1023
01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:37.159
<v Speaker 2>and they start to sing the Mickey Mouse theme like

1024
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:41.000
<v Speaker 2>as they're walking right, this is the scene you're talking about.

1025
01:03:41.440 --> 01:03:45.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, And when I saw it as a still image,

1026
01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:48.559
<v Speaker 3>I interpreted in my mind in a totally different way

1027
01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:51.800
<v Speaker 3>than having seen it in the movie many times, and

1028
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:58.880
<v Speaker 3>it hit me, oh, they're ghosts because the sniper took

1029
01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:03.679
<v Speaker 3>everybody out except a couple, and you saw what you know,

1030
01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:06.159
<v Speaker 3>then he had to take out the sniper. Well, it's

1031
01:04:06.159 --> 01:04:09.559
<v Speaker 3>still daylight at that point, it's still hours left before

1032
01:04:09.639 --> 01:04:13.079
<v Speaker 3>this scene happens. Well, I'm looking and going none of

1033
01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:19.440
<v Speaker 3>them made it their ghost and they returned to their

1034
01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:23.639
<v Speaker 3>most idealized state of their young lives, which was when

1035
01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:27.760
<v Speaker 3>there were little kids rushing home to watch The Mickey

1036
01:04:27.760 --> 01:04:31.559
<v Speaker 3>Mouse Club. So that's the afterlife.

1037
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:35.840
<v Speaker 2>That's That is a heavy thought that I never ever

1038
01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:36.880
<v Speaker 2>had before.

1039
01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:42.039
<v Speaker 3>So I'm not saying that there was any intention on

1040
01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:45.599
<v Speaker 3>the on Kubrick's part to do this. This is merely

1041
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:47.800
<v Speaker 3>something that came into my head as a way of

1042
01:04:47.920 --> 01:04:50.719
<v Speaker 3>viewing it. But when you look at it and think

1043
01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:54.880
<v Speaker 3>of it in those terms, it actually makes a eerie

1044
01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:58.239
<v Speaker 3>kind of sense, which is what he says. None of

1045
01:04:58.239 --> 01:05:03.119
<v Speaker 3>them made it. They all were killed and their ghosts

1046
01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:05.480
<v Speaker 3>now and he did that. You know, the Shining was

1047
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:10.039
<v Speaker 3>a ghost story and it's ultimate and that's why you're

1048
01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:12.159
<v Speaker 3>seeing them the way they are, where you're not seeing

1049
01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:12.639
<v Speaker 3>them as.

1050
01:05:12.519 --> 01:05:17.840
<v Speaker 2>People, or perhaps they're traveling, you know, among the fire

1051
01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:20.760
<v Speaker 2>because they're going to a greater fire. It's all over,

1052
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:23.599
<v Speaker 2>and now it's time to you know, might as well

1053
01:05:23.599 --> 01:05:26.440
<v Speaker 2>sing Mickey Mouse on your way to Hell. I mean

1054
01:05:26.920 --> 01:05:29.679
<v Speaker 2>that that is the only thing. I remember having that

1055
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.360
<v Speaker 2>thought at one point, like with the fires all around,

1056
01:05:32.800 --> 01:05:34.760
<v Speaker 2>But then I thought maybe it was a statement about

1057
01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:37.639
<v Speaker 2>the devastation. I mean, there's a lot of ways to

1058
01:05:37.679 --> 01:05:38.199
<v Speaker 2>look at.

1059
01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:41.840
<v Speaker 3>This, Yeah, And that's one of the great things that's

1060
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:47.920
<v Speaker 3>interesting about Kubrick's films. There's always something there. And he

1061
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:51.199
<v Speaker 3>never got to the point where he would do interviews

1062
01:05:51.320 --> 01:05:54.159
<v Speaker 3>and explain. People would ask, well, what's the meaning of

1063
01:05:54.199 --> 01:05:56.519
<v Speaker 3>the end of two thousand and one and all that

1064
01:05:56.559 --> 01:06:00.360
<v Speaker 3>sort of thing, right, and he would, I mean, not

1065
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:03.079
<v Speaker 3>too many interviews to begin with. But then what he

1066
01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:08.639
<v Speaker 3>did he would avoid getting that specific because he thought

1067
01:06:08.639 --> 01:06:11.679
<v Speaker 3>that it would ruin it and not be as interesting

1068
01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:16.960
<v Speaker 3>if the viewer wasn't putting themselves and their own thoughts

1069
01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:21.159
<v Speaker 3>into it. He actually encourages that wants that, or you're

1070
01:06:21.199 --> 01:06:24.480
<v Speaker 3>making your own interpretation and you're an active part of

1071
01:06:24.519 --> 01:06:27.159
<v Speaker 3>the process rather than going, well, you know at the

1072
01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:30.280
<v Speaker 3>end of the movie meant it's not as interesting, it's

1073
01:06:30.280 --> 01:06:34.079
<v Speaker 3>not as intriguing. You wouldn't be talking about it fifty

1074
01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:39.159
<v Speaker 3>years later, for two thousand and one or nineteen eighty

1075
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:42.039
<v Speaker 3>was shine. He wouldn't be talking about these things if

1076
01:06:42.079 --> 01:06:45.480
<v Speaker 3>they were so obvious, and if he had gone out

1077
01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:49.559
<v Speaker 3>explained everything or written a book about his films or whatever.

1078
01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:51.800
<v Speaker 3>And he never did any of those things right.

1079
01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:54.360
<v Speaker 2>And for the same reason, I think that David Chase

1080
01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:57.400
<v Speaker 2>doesn't give you the answer to what actually happened at

1081
01:06:57.400 --> 01:07:00.559
<v Speaker 2>the end of The Sopranos still right, what is it

1082
01:07:00.599 --> 01:07:04.639
<v Speaker 2>fifteen years later and he's not answering that question. Why

1083
01:07:04.760 --> 01:07:07.760
<v Speaker 2>because people are still discussing it and interpreting it. Is

1084
01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:10.000
<v Speaker 2>that you know, he didn't hear the shot, so he's dead,

1085
01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:13.559
<v Speaker 2>just like you discussed in a previous episode, etc. I

1086
01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:17.039
<v Speaker 2>know it's comparing TV to film, but I feel like

1087
01:07:17.079 --> 01:07:20.000
<v Speaker 2>it's almost the same thing where I'm not going to

1088
01:07:20.039 --> 01:07:22.119
<v Speaker 2>give him the answers, let them get him on their

1089
01:07:22.119 --> 01:07:26.000
<v Speaker 2>own and let them figure it out. And meanwhile people

1090
01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:29.440
<v Speaker 2>will keep discussing it and rediscovering it and having to

1091
01:07:29.559 --> 01:07:32.239
<v Speaker 2>examine it and go over it and that might be

1092
01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:34.760
<v Speaker 2>what it's all about. So I want to thank you

1093
01:07:34.760 --> 01:07:36.679
<v Speaker 2>because he spent more than an hour with me. And

1094
01:07:36.719 --> 01:07:40.320
<v Speaker 2>again you're the author of the book Quintessential Jack The

1095
01:07:40.480 --> 01:07:44.599
<v Speaker 2>Art of Jack Nicholson on Screen Scott Edwards. And I'm

1096
01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:48.320
<v Speaker 2>also going to give you a link to a Facebook page,

1097
01:07:48.119 --> 01:07:51.800
<v Speaker 2>the publisher's page on this and the Amazon link to

1098
01:07:51.840 --> 01:07:55.159
<v Speaker 2>go buy it, unless you have another preferred link you

1099
01:07:55.159 --> 01:07:57.079
<v Speaker 2>could send me that for them to buy it from.

1100
01:07:57.719 --> 01:08:04.000
<v Speaker 3>The publisher is the best vet because it's actually on

1101
01:08:04.159 --> 01:08:09.159
<v Speaker 3>sale twenty percent off everything at the publisher's site through

1102
01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:13.679
<v Speaker 3>the end of the year, and it's just the code

1103
01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:17.880
<v Speaker 3>is Holiday twenty four and you get that twenty percent.

1104
01:08:18.159 --> 01:08:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Great, okay, So you know what, I'll drop the Amazon

1105
01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:24.640
<v Speaker 2>link and Holiday twenty four all together as one word,

1106
01:08:24.760 --> 01:08:27.439
<v Speaker 2>right is the okay holiday.

1107
01:08:27.680 --> 01:08:29.520
<v Speaker 3>They show it on the site too, so even if

1108
01:08:29.520 --> 01:08:31.560
<v Speaker 3>you don't remember it, it's easy to find.

1109
01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh excellent, So you can get a discount if you

1110
01:08:33.800 --> 01:08:37.079
<v Speaker 2>go to the publisher's website and by Quintessential Jack The

1111
01:08:37.199 --> 01:08:40.319
<v Speaker 2>Art of Jack Nicholson on Screen by Scott Edwards. And

1112
01:08:40.359 --> 01:08:44.279
<v Speaker 2>again chance meeting at Lancer and I have a feeling

1113
01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:48.880
<v Speaker 2>that I might want you to return and answer some questions,

1114
01:08:48.920 --> 01:08:52.760
<v Speaker 2>maybe from some listeners, et cetera. There's somebody in the

1115
01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:55.760
<v Speaker 2>chat room mentioning that they liked the Billy Jack thing.

1116
01:08:55.800 --> 01:08:57.479
<v Speaker 2>I think that was back when we were talking about

1117
01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:02.680
<v Speaker 2>the biker movies. Let's see, Kubrick may have only advised

1118
01:09:02.720 --> 01:09:07.560
<v Speaker 2>on the apollo op. Okay, Well, look, you can take

1119
01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:12.159
<v Speaker 2>it anyway you want, but I don't believe that Stanley

1120
01:09:12.239 --> 01:09:14.720
<v Speaker 2>Kubrick gave us that footage. I'll tell you that much

1121
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:18.239
<v Speaker 2>with absolute certainty. But he did give us a lot

1122
01:09:18.279 --> 01:09:22.479
<v Speaker 2>of films, and Jack Nicholson gave us a lot of characters,

1123
01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:25.880
<v Speaker 2>and Scott Edwards gave us a lot to think about.

1124
01:09:26.560 --> 01:10:26.760
<v Speaker 1>So there you go, Revelation through conversation.

1125
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:29.439
<v Speaker 2>If you've expressed my caller schools there anyone else who

1126
01:10:29.439 --> 01:10:30.880
<v Speaker 2>happens to get on the air of Jelly dot com,

1127
01:10:30.920 --> 01:10:33.399
<v Speaker 2>do not necessarily reflect views little Lly dot com or

1128
01:10:33.479 --> 01:10:35.600
<v Speaker 2>check Go Chilly, and we are not responsible for any

1129
01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:36.760
<v Speaker 2>stupidity which might ensued.

1130
01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Revelation through conversation.

1131
01:10:39.520 --> 01:10:40.279
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead call it.

1132
01:10:40.680 --> 01:10:42.920
<v Speaker 4>Just sit in the truth about the JAFA assassination.

1133
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, what do you want to know? Dy Baker's

1134
01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:49.520
<v Speaker 2>wild claim Oswald girlfriends you knew Ruby and Barry answer weapons. Really,

1135
01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:51.640
<v Speaker 2>I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It

1136
01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:52.720
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make me a wagon.

1137
01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:55.560
<v Speaker 1>But okay, Oswald was on the bility and I'm trying

1138
01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:57.119
<v Speaker 1>to prevent the murder of John Kennedy.

1139
01:10:57.159 --> 01:10:59.159
<v Speaker 5>Come on now has a real effort on the day

1140
01:10:59.199 --> 01:10:59.960
<v Speaker 5>of assassination.

1141
01:11:01.279 --> 01:11:05.319
<v Speaker 2>Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her

1142
01:11:05.359 --> 01:11:08.239
<v Speaker 2>own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy

1143
01:11:08.279 --> 01:11:11.760
<v Speaker 2>of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words

1144
01:11:11.800 --> 01:11:14.640
<v Speaker 2>and the known evidence in the case to get at

1145
01:11:14.760 --> 01:11:18.199
<v Speaker 2>well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith

1146
01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Ary Baker in her own words from the author himself,

1147
01:11:21.680 --> 01:11:24.760
<v Speaker 2>signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at

1148
01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:28.920
<v Speaker 2>k I A S JFK at aol dot com. It's

1149
01:11:28.960 --> 01:11:32.359
<v Speaker 2>a fun book and it actually dissects the many, many

1150
01:11:32.439 --> 01:11:36.199
<v Speaker 2>fantastic claims Judith very Baker in her own words.

1151
01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:39.560
<v Speaker 6>Thank you information O Chili dot com.

1152
01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:42.119
<v Speaker 7>Yo yo. This Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action

1153
01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:45.920
<v Speaker 7>podcast presented by Wall Street Window, and you are listening

1154
01:11:45.960 --> 01:11:50.920
<v Speaker 7>to the o'chill effect revelation through conversation in.

1155
01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:56.279
<v Speaker 4>Denial, Secret Wars with air stripes and Tanks by Larry Hancock.

1156
01:11:57.079 --> 01:12:00.840
<v Speaker 4>Secret wars became a staple of US coverts and are

1157
01:12:00.880 --> 01:12:05.319
<v Speaker 4>still happening today. Larryhancock's book In Denial rips the cover

1158
01:12:05.479 --> 01:12:06.880
<v Speaker 4>off many of them.

1159
01:12:06.680 --> 01:12:07.640
<v Speaker 3>Using new files.

1160
01:12:07.640 --> 01:12:10.039
<v Speaker 8>It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no

1161
01:12:10.119 --> 01:12:13.119
<v Speaker 8>one has ever written about before. It shows why it

1162
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:16.079
<v Speaker 8>really failed and why the United States did not learn

1163
01:12:16.119 --> 01:12:19.119
<v Speaker 8>from it. It also shows why other countries today are

1164
01:12:19.159 --> 01:12:22.840
<v Speaker 8>doing secret operations with more success. This is the book

1165
01:12:22.840 --> 01:12:26.279
<v Speaker 8>that puts what some want to deny into the light.

1166
01:12:26.680 --> 01:12:31.800
<v Speaker 8>In Denial, Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhncock.

1167
01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:36.680
<v Speaker 8>For more information, go to Larry hyphen Hancock dot com.

1168
01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:40.239
<v Speaker 8>Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com.

1169
01:12:40.279 --> 01:12:41.920
<v Speaker 8>In digital or physical force?

1170
01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:44.920
<v Speaker 6>Do you like history? Real history that you were never

1171
01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:49.479
<v Speaker 6>taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in

1172
01:12:49.640 --> 01:12:53.640
<v Speaker 6>nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with

1173
01:12:53.800 --> 01:12:58.119
<v Speaker 6>new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to

1174
01:12:58.239 --> 01:13:01.760
<v Speaker 6>events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War

1175
01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:06.720
<v Speaker 6>Nuclear Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty

1176
01:13:06.760 --> 01:13:10.880
<v Speaker 6>five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at

1177
01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:16.159
<v Speaker 6>Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson.

1178
01:13:16.239 --> 01:13:19.439
<v Speaker 5>The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national

1179
01:13:19.479 --> 01:13:22.479
<v Speaker 5>transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in

1180
01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:25.960
<v Speaker 5>the context of the times, and reveals never before published

1181
01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:29.680
<v Speaker 5>information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not

1182
01:13:29.720 --> 01:13:32.319
<v Speaker 5>have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred

1183
01:13:32.399 --> 01:13:35.760
<v Speaker 5>years ago. His assassination took place in the context of

1184
01:13:35.800 --> 01:13:38.760
<v Speaker 5>the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.

1185
01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:42.399
<v Speaker 5>Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic.

1186
01:13:42.760 --> 01:13:45.800
<v Speaker 5>In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower.

1187
01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:49.680
<v Speaker 5>Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba,

1188
01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:51.960
<v Speaker 5>but knew that there were short range missiles on the

1189
01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:55.119
<v Speaker 5>island arn't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy

1190
01:13:55.239 --> 01:13:58.079
<v Speaker 5>because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have

1191
01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:01.159
<v Speaker 5>led to a Third World War, and they wanted to

1192
01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:04.479
<v Speaker 5>go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson

1193
01:14:04.760 --> 01:14:07.520
<v Speaker 5>reveals why, and we'll show you what President Kennedy was

1194
01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:11.399
<v Speaker 5>up against. For more information, the War State dot com.

1195
01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:13.479
<v Speaker 3>This is James Corbin at corpor Report dot com and

1196
01:14:13.520 --> 01:14:15.960
<v Speaker 3>you're listening to the ocell Affected dot.

1197
01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:19.520
<v Speaker 7>Com Nuclear Holocaust, Know what uranium is right think called

1198
01:14:19.560 --> 01:14:21.640
<v Speaker 7>nuclear weapons and other things.

1199
01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Like the dot com Radio Network

1200
01:14:26.680 --> 01:14:28.920
<v Speaker 3>Dot com Radio Network