WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:04.240 Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris, Lorenzo and Lorenzo. 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:06.839 On this episode, we're continuing the discussion that we started 3 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:09.880 two weeks ago on the four common leadership Problems and 4 00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:13.720 their Solutions article by Sam at Ayemi. We posted the 5 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:16.440 article in the podcast description for the last two weeks. 6 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:19.920 On this episode, we're gonna talk about the third of 7 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:23.199 fourth of the four items in that article when it 8 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:25.640 comes to, you know, the problems that leaders have a 9 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.719 responsibility to solve when they're happening on their teams. This 10 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:31.039 particular issue that we're going to talk about today is 11 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:33.640 when your team is playing politics. And I think this 12 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:36.920 is different than the previous to you know, the last 13 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:38.679 week we talked about when your team is consumed by 14 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:41.520 negativity on the on the first episode, we talked about 15 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:43.439 what happens when your team isn't listening to each other, 16 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:46.200 you know, the when your team is playing politics. To me, 17 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:48.960 that's a little bit different. I had a leader once 18 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.920 tell me that they believed that there was no such 19 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:56.799 thing as an office or a team without politics, and 20 00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:59.960 and what he meant by that was just in talking 21 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:04.840 about the relationships that exist between people and the the 22 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:09.159 the power structure that is involved, not by where the 23 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:13.799 organization promotes people and assigns people job responsibilities and roles, 24 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:16.239 but that the but the power that we give each 25 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:19.879 other in terms of the social and emotional relationships that 26 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.239 we have within the office. And you know, there will 27 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:25.959 always be people who are you know, known for this 28 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:28.719 or known for that. You know, the guy, the guy 29 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:30.840 that does this, the girl that does this in the office, 30 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:34.760 and that that will always happen. And that person once, 31 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.599 you know, said that that was the definition of politics, 32 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:41.280 and I don't think he's wrong. But in the context 33 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:44.680 of this article, politics is clearly being defined as a 34 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:48.680 as an always negative thing that that you know, kind 35 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:52.480 of comes with a deep seated feeling that things are 36 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:56.519 being done unfairly, or that that that there's different rules 37 00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:59.920 for different people, or that people aren't being treated equal 38 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:02.719 by their by their leaders, by their coworkers. So there's 39 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:04.799 a lot more to it than just kind of like ooh, 40 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:07.640 how do I navigate these relationships? It can be a 41 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.240 serious problem on teams when when it's uh, when it 42 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:11.520 rises to the negative level. 43 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:15.520 Yeah, I think, you know, there's absolutely my belief as 44 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:18.599 well that like the politics, politics exist everywhere, because really 45 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:21.039 what you're talking about is like the relationships that you 46 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:25.280 have with individuals, and then as those relationships mature across 47 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:29.319 multiple individuals, you're going to have people that see the 48 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:31.759 world and see the work similarly, and you're going to 49 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:33.439 have people that see the world and see the work 50 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:36.199 in different ways. And because of that, you're going to 51 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:39.719 have these natural kind of spaces that people will play 52 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:44.599 within where they start to think about like how they 53 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:46.800 would do the work, how they would lead the work, 54 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:50.000 what's the right way uh to make things happen, what's 55 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:53.360 the right way or in their own mind to to 56 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.599 be able to accomplish the task that's at hand. And 57 00:02:56.719 --> 00:03:01.280 the reality is that, like over time, if you don't 58 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:04.120 address those things when you see them, if you don't 59 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:09.400 talk constantly about the value of seeing the work differently, 60 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:13.840 of seeing the world differently, if you allow those teams 61 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:19.599 to either divide themselves because of maybe competition, or if 62 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:22.000 you have teams that work in a way where this 63 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:24.319 team has to accomplish this before this team can do that, 64 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:26.599 before this can even can do that, then you also 65 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:29.319 have that feeling of like, well, it's we always do 66 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:31.240 it the right way, it's they do it the wrong way, 67 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:35.240 or if you have teams where somebody's responsible for getting 68 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:38.280 the work done, but somebody's responsible differently for the budget, 69 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:40.840 and then they kind of collide a little bit. Like 70 00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:44.400 these things naturally are going to happen within your teams 71 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:48.039 when you have multiple people working together. I think to 72 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.680 your point, though, the kicker is that it becomes that 73 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:54.960 negative politics when it starts to have an impact on 74 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:58.639 either like the productivity of what everybody's working on and 75 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:03.520 or there starts to be a really kind of negative 76 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:07.919 feeling about the relationships amongst the you know, different groups 77 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:10.879 within the team, and or it becomes like in the 78 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:12.560 I guess the way to test it immediately is like 79 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.919 somebody new comes in, right like like like what does 80 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:20.560 that look like? Are are our teams talking positive about 81 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:24.000 the other teams? Our teams you know, uh, kind of 82 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.279 saying like hey, if if you're if you do this work, 83 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:27.959 you got to come over here, or we're the ones 84 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:29.319 who see it this way, or they're the ones who 85 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:30.600 see it that, you know what I mean? Like that's 86 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:34.839 really the best time to understand like where the politics 87 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:38.040 are within your teams is like what happens with the 88 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.040 new person and how do they perceive things and how 89 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.120 are they welcomed or how are they you know, kind 90 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.000 of almost asked immediately to figure out, you know, how 91 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:49.839 they want to do the work and which type of 92 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:52.240 group they should be with, and like that to me 93 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:56.519 is where when the politics become very negative. These are 94 00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:58.120 some of the things that you see when that happens. 95 00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:01.600 Yeah, I agree, but on the same token, uh, you know, 96 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.680 I've seen that kind of thing happen where it is 97 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:07.160 all in good fun and there is no negativity, you know, 98 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:09.519 this whole like kind of pick a side thing almost 99 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:11.560 like almost like a you know, a fan of a 100 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:14.000 sports team versus another sports team, like, oh, you know, 101 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:15.800 if you're if you're you might get you know, see, 102 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:18.319 you get invited over to a super Bowl party and 103 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.839 you don't inherently like one team or the other. You're 104 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:22.800 into it for a good game. And you get there 105 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:24.839 and half the people there are wearing one jersey and 106 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:26.519 half people that are wearing another jersey. They're all looking 107 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:28.519 at you like, all right, all right, Lorenzo, what what 108 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:31.079 side are you on? You know you're not You're not 109 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:32.360 about to be kicked out of the party, you know, 110 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:34.519 it's all in good fun. Like there's there's there are 111 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:37.079 examples of what you're talking about where it can be 112 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.399 kind of like a almost like a way of welcoming 113 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:45.079 somebody to a team is a way to judge you 114 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:47.759 put them in a situation where you are asking them 115 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:50.759 to take a side and you're trying to see whether 116 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:53.839 or not they want to be one of you. You know, 117 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:56.160 you're it's a test. It's a test to see does 118 00:05:56.199 --> 00:06:00.120 this person want to assimilate into our group culture or 119 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:04.279 whatever that is. And that isn't inherently a problem as 120 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:08.079 long as the group culture is one of welcoming and 121 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:13.399 acceptance and and you know, one where the the the 122 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:17.519 in versus out is not based on anything that is 123 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.519 that a person can't control, but based on like, oh, 124 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:22.319 what music do you like? Or what kind of this 125 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:24.399 do you like? Those kind of things can be a 126 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:28.319 way to form camaraderie and bonds between people. But again, 127 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.040 it's a very fine line, and it can and it 128 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.000 can go off the deep end into a negative area 129 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:34.839 if it's if it's not done right or if it's 130 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:38.199 left unchecked. You know, when I think about playing politics 131 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:41.199 going into the negative, there are kind of two examples 132 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:44.519 I can think of where where where kind of like 133 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:48.680 the same the same things happening. One would result in 134 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:53.040 not a problem, whereas whereas another situation it would result 135 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:56.240 in a problem. One is if the person who is 136 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:59.439 supposedly playing politics is in is in a position of power. 137 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:03.519 So it's one thing to have politics between people on 138 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:07.160 a team who are peers. It's another thing when it's 139 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:09.639 when the perception is that the leader is playing politics. 140 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:12.480 Because if I'm not the leader and I think my 141 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:16.160 leader is playing politics, well, now that person is playing 142 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:18.560 a game that I can't compete in because they have 143 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:22.360 they have power over my role, maybe my my annual review. 144 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:24.759 If I'm if I'm feeling like I have to do 145 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:29.360 things differently because of almost trying to manage the the 146 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:32.839 emotional or political expectations of the leader as opposed to 147 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:35.839 just managing my job description and what's what's expected of 148 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:39.160 me by the organization. That is a problem when when 149 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:41.720 what's happening by the leader. And then the second is, 150 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.600 you know, we all know the difference between the person 151 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:47.879 in high school who had a lot of power because 152 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:49.600 they were the bully and the person who had a 153 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:53.480 lot of power in high school because the people there 154 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:56.040 gave them that power, like they were the They might have 155 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:58.360 been like a jock or like the head cheerleader, but 156 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:01.439 they were so nice. They just were they They wanted 157 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:03.480 to be nice to everybody, They wanted to be friends 158 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:05.199 with everybody, and they just had to kind of have 159 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:08.879 that gravitational pull that some people have, and that power 160 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:10.959 is given to them by people, which means it can 161 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:15.759 be taken by people. And those situations are ones that 162 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:19.360 can be difficult because I think in a lot of organizations, 163 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:21.639 if you have somebody like that on a team who 164 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.800 just kind of has this natural gravitational pull because of 165 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:27.759 how kind they are and how accepting they are and 166 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:30.879 how well they treat other people, there can be an 167 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:36.159 inherent kind of negative belief from others that that person 168 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.320 almost has something that they don't have, Like what like 169 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:41.559 I want to be the person who has that, but 170 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.120 I don't know how to do that. I can't do that, 171 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:45.639 I can't compete. And if I can't compete, now that 172 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:49.440 therefore that person is, you know, it's a negative element 173 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:51.799 on the team that that person is here with that 174 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:54.879 power that we've all granted them because I haven't granted 175 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:57.159 them that power. I haven't decided to do that. It's 176 00:08:57.200 --> 00:08:58.879 the other people on the team we have. And now 177 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.120 I feel like I'm having to place subordinate to this 178 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:04.080 person who doesn't have a title, but who now has 179 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:06.679 this this kind of political power granted them by the team. 180 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:08.399 Yeah, well, I think what you just said there there 181 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:11.919 is like that that's the difference between like power and politics, 182 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:14.080 is right. It's not that they have the power, it's 183 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:16.759 what do they do with it? And are they either 184 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:19.799 opening the door for others? Are they using that to 185 00:09:19.879 --> 00:09:23.679 bring people along? Are they using that to create spaces 186 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:28.000 for people to feel heard and seen and welcome. So again, 187 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:32.279 like I think in and then to your earlier example 188 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:36.080 about like kind of picking a side from a positive standpoint, 189 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:38.480 like from a jersey. For me, that's still something that 190 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:40.200 I would be conscious of because there should also be 191 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:41.559 an option of like you don't even have to wear 192 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:42.000 a jersey. 193 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:44.120 Mm, Like like if you're truly. 194 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:48.360 Talking about like inclusive, non political picking a side type 195 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:50.559 of thing, it's like you're you should just be welcome 196 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:52.360 to go to the party, right and then and then 197 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.679 the choice is yours the minute that a team says 198 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:58.360 you should make a choice or you need to make 199 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:00.679 a choice. Again, Like that's when you're starting to see 200 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:03.720 some of that behavior that again can can be done 201 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:06.679 in a positive way, but more than likely the whole 202 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:10.600 idea is like, but on behalf of everybody here, what 203 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:13.240 you choose to do, how you choose to represent, which 204 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.840 jersey you want to wear or not wear, whatever, Like 205 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.639 that's totally fine, we welcome all. So like that that's 206 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.879 where I think seeing those things is helpful when you're 207 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:25.720 thinking about the game of the politics and then to 208 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:28.639 your point about the kind of the authority or the 209 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.279 power structure element. When I hear like leaders playing politics, 210 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:36.320 I immediately think of two things. At number one is 211 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:42.279 that they're not being truthful and an authentic about what's 212 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:44.679 going on or what the strategies are or why we 213 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:47.120 have to do things, because I immediately like they're being 214 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:49.600 a politician. Yeah, like like they're they're just telling you 215 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:50.519 what they want to. 216 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:53.399 Hear spin right exactly, using the information to try to 217 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:55.639 get what they want in a way of like doling 218 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:56.720 it out in the right. 219 00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:59.000 Way totally, and it's it's in authentic and people can 220 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:00.960 see through it. So I think if we are doing politics. 221 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:02.799 That's what number one that I see. Number two then 222 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:07.159 is favoritism. That's the other part of leadership politics, which 223 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.480 is it's clear that this leader likes either this team 224 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.639 or this individual or this way of working, and they 225 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:20.559 lean strategies towards that style or that way, and then 226 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:22.480 it's kind of like you know, so again like that's 227 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:24.720 kind of what I see from a leadership politics standpoint 228 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:29.279 when it comes to the teams back and forth. I 229 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:33.639 think that's where as a leader, when you see that 230 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:37.240 there is some elements where you do want teams to 231 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:42.720 have a certain kind of like I don't know, maybe 232 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:48.080 excitement or pride for the work that that team is doing. 233 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:51.799 You do want some of that to happen. What you 234 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:55.240 have to be really conscious of is celebrating even more 235 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:58.720 so when you see those teams work together, bring each 236 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.840 other in, make an adjustment based upon the perspective of 237 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.480 somebody else, Like when you see the things that create 238 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:10.559 real great collaboration and a greater sense of team, you 239 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:14.279 really have to celebrate those things to bring down I 240 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:16.919 think the levels of politics that again are always going 241 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:20.200 to exist, but put put them in a space where 242 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:26.120 they're not leading the larger team into a negative space, 243 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:29.200 or they're not creating a lack of productivity, they're not 244 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:33.240 creating a space where people don't feel welcome or included 245 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:34.840 in the work that your larger team is doing. 246 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:36.720 Right for sure, you know, back to the first thing 247 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:39.559 you were saying around you know, like the Jersey example, 248 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:44.919 You're right, it's only it's only choice if the choices 249 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:48.200 aren't defined for you. It's the illusion of choice. If 250 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.919 someone's saying to you, Oh, Lorenzo, the choice is totally 251 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:54.960 yours between A and B. The choice could be it's 252 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:57.320 only really your choice if the choice is between A, B, 253 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:01.679 C and fourteen. Right, you get to define the choices 254 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.399 if the choice is truly yours, which is again, you know, 255 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:06.600 not participating at all if you don't want to, if 256 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:08.679 it's not something you feel that you feel like you 257 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:10.159 need to need to pick a side on it that 258 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:13.480 you feel truly, you know, passionate about when it comes to, 259 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:17.639 you know, the leadership kind of responsibility in this. I 260 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:20.200 think this is where the rubber meets the road on 261 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:23.240 this top, on this conversation, because on the one hand, 262 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:26.840 you know, we agree that there's a certain element of 263 00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:30.039 this that can be positive on a team in terms 264 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:32.840 of the camaraderie that exists, if it's an inclusive environment, 265 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:36.039 if people are if it's kind of wielded the right way, 266 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:41.879 but it can very quickly derail into the negative even 267 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.279 though the intent wasn't to do so. Like the intent 268 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.360 could be totally positive, but it goes into the negative 269 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:50.240 if it's kind of left unchecked. And I think you're right. 270 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:55.120 The only way for a leader to effectively do this 271 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:58.159 without stamping out the good things right Like it's it's 272 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:01.519 like when you my five year is, you know, going 273 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:03.600 to change the world someday, but right now she's driving 274 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:05.519 me crazy, right And I could make it so she 275 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:07.399 doesn't drive me crazy, but then she won't change the 276 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:09.240 world someday. We all know that kind of that kind 277 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.240 of conundrum as a parent that we that we deal with. 278 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:12.639 I think it's the same thing I think when a 279 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:16.480 when a leader is looking at the positive elements of 280 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.720 this on a team that bring a team together, you 281 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.360 can make it so it never turns negative from a 282 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:27.200 political standpoint by just stamping out that behavior altogether, But 283 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.440 then you've lost some of the positive that can come 284 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:32.600 from when a team is truly cohesive. And high performing 285 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:35.320 and working together. And so as a leader, how do 286 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:38.360 you do this? How do you allow this to happen? 287 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:40.480 How do you allow it to kind of people to 288 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:43.480 have the leeway to see what can be done when 289 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:45.679 a team truly cares about each other, when a team 290 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:47.879 is inclusive, when they when they bring each other along 291 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:50.919 without you know, while also having kind of like the 292 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.279 spidy sense feelers up for looking for certain elements that 293 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:57.519 might be go, Okay, that didn't feel right. I'm not 294 00:14:57.519 --> 00:14:59.120 going to jump in yet, but I need to keep 295 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:02.000 my eye on this because if I see it happen again, 296 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:03.919 then that means it wasn't the fluke, and I need 297 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:05.679 to address it right away. You know, Like there're these 298 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:08.000 those elements that have to happen, and I think that's 299 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:11.440 important to discuss, like what what do leaders look for 300 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:14.240 and what rises to the level of all right, we 301 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:15.600 can't do this absolutely. 302 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.120 And with that it brings us this episodes Women at Hack. 303 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:19.919 But first a few words from our sponsors. 304 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:22.320 All right, for this episode of one minute Hackers, I 305 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:24.120 want you to do if you're a leader of people 306 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.039 or a leader of leaders and you're trying to kind 307 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:28.600 of keep your eyes open and your ears open for 308 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.399 things that rise to the level of you feeling like, Okay, 309 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.200 you know what this this camaraderie, this this kind of 310 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.159 team element, this this positivity that I'm seeing on the team, 311 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.440 it possibly is rising to the level of politics in 312 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:46.399 a in a negative way. What you should be looking 313 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.120 for are things that that I kind of liken to 314 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:52.399 the field goal kicker losing the game. You know kind 315 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.240 of situation. You know, when we all know the situation 316 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:57.919 of the field goal kicker that loses the game because 317 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.240 they didn't make that last field goal in the closing 318 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.279 seconds of the game, and everybody blames that kicker. But 319 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.039 if we are being perfectly honest here, there were hundreds 320 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:07.960 of other things that happened in that game that caused 321 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:10.519 that team to lose, even though in that moment we 322 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.000 think about it as, oh, it's it's all on the 323 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:15.639 hands of this one person. When you see this on 324 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:17.759 your team, what that looks like is, you know, the 325 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.480 team is getting together and they start to shirk responsibility 326 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:22.720 of what they can't get done because of somebody else 327 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.000 that's on the outside. So, oh, we would have made 328 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:28.440 our sales targets if the marketing materials were good, you know, 329 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:30.879 we would have made our sales targets. If you know 330 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:35.000 something else, you know, some other element of a person 331 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:37.960 or a team that's the on the outside that can 332 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.559 be scapegoaded or blamed for the issues that are that 333 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:43.960 are happening on the team, as opposed to the team 334 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:47.159 members actually taking ownership of it and thinking about the 335 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:49.399 things they can do to solve the problem, even if 336 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:52.600 it means getting involved. It's like, Okay, maybe the marketing 337 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.320 materials aren't good, but there's a difference between we would 338 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.559 have made our targets but the marketing materials suck, or 339 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:01.039 we would have made our target. It's next month, We'll 340 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:03.000 do a better job of partnering with the marketing team 341 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.400 to make sure they understand our needs so that when so, 342 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:07.920 the materials that come out are are better suited to 343 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.160 what our customers are looking for. As opposed to it, 344 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:13.279 it's it's the ownership, it's I are we is the 345 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:15.759 power that we have. Are we using it to take 346 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:17.680 ownership of our problems? Or are we using it to 347 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.920 shirk the problems onto somebody else so that we don't 348 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.119 have to so that we can avoid responsibility for the 349 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:24.200 things that we need to take care of. And it's 350 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:25.880 those kind of elements you have to look for as 351 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:29.039 a leader when you're deciding whether or not what's happening 352 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:31.279 or the discussion is rising to the level that you 353 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:33.799 need to kind of jump in and stamp something down, 354 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:35.799 or if it's a kind of a healthy element on 355 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:36.119 the team. 356 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:39.240 Yeah, and again, it's going to happen, and it's going 357 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:43.519 to happen quite frequently and very often. And you know, 358 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:47.279 having people feel certain ways about each other, or teams 359 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:51.079 versus teams, or like, like it's human nature. There's elements 360 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:54.359 to it people, you know, especially on teams where people 361 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.599 want to be successful. You know, they're they're they're measuring 362 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.400 their own work. They're measuring it. Sometimes it's a of 363 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.240 the larger work. But like you're going to have these moments, 364 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.799 and I think to your point, as a leader, it's 365 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:07.920 just being conscious and listening for it and seeing it 366 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.160 and like when is it becoming too much? When when 367 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.559 if we moved on from saying like, hey, we own this, 368 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:17.160 we can work on this, here's our strategies, here's where 369 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.640 we have maybe some hurdles or some bumps in the road, 370 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.000 versus we can't do this because of this person. We 371 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.640 can't get this done because of this team, if you know, 372 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.400 like like it's when when all of the solutions turn 373 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:34.640 into other people or other teams, that's when you kind 374 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.039 of have to get your your you know, you have 375 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:39.119 to move to action as a leader and go have 376 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:41.440 some influence and have some conversations and dig through it. 377 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:43.319 But this is like a lot of this can also 378 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:46.960 be you know, somewhat minimized by again having the right 379 00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:51.759 people's in the rooms, having conversations where you're creating spacefook collaboration, 380 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:56.400 talking through things when they come up, you know, between 381 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.880 individuals sometimes or when you see that there's a kind 382 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:02.839 of an initial rub that's going on. If you just 383 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.440 give it to the team and say, you guys, figure 384 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.559 it out and get back to me when it's done, Like, 385 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.839 that's not helpful, right, right, Like these are things that 386 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:11.960 as a leader you have to catch on to and 387 00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:15.759 make adjustments to and address in the moment to let 388 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:18.759 the team know collectively, like we're not going to do 389 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.960 this to each other, and we're not going to you know, 390 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.160 we all have different layers and different elements of responsibility 391 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:27.720 to get the work done, but we have to work 392 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.480 together to make sure that it's done the right way 393 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:31.519 and the best way possible. 394 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.240 Right. If I go back to the example about the 395 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:36.720 sales targets not being hit because of the marketing team, 396 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:39.720 think about, in the context of what you were saying 397 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:42.240 Lorenzo on having the right people in the room, what 398 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:45.119 if on every sales meeting there were two or three 399 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.240 people from the marketing team in the meeting. There would 400 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.240 I would venture guests to say that under those circumstances, 401 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.400