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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dana Valley coming

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at you with yet another twenty twenty four twenty twenty

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five NBA season look ahead. We are onto the Orlando

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Magic and I'm lucky enough to be joined by a

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first time guest, Vazan Amir. We have talked for a

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couple of years now. He's been on the Magic beat.

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He covers the Orlando Magic for The sixth Man Show.

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You can find his Twitter handle and link to his

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Twitter assuming it is up and running, which we hope

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that it will be in the podcast and YouTube description,

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and he will shout it out at the end of

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the episode, like we always force our.

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Speaker 2: Guests to do.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get into all things Orlando Magic. This is

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really excited I Like I said, I've known him for

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a while. He's really really good at what he does.

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Does some film breakdowns, highlights, analyzes a whole bunch of stuff.

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So go check him out if you haven't already. His

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stuff's at the sixth Man Show and they're wildly popular

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Orlando podcast slash outlet. I've listened to many of their

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podcast episodes. With that though, I'll start rambling. Let's bring

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on fiaz On so we could talk about the twenty

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twenty four twenty twenty five Orlando Brazon. Thank you so

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much for coming on for the first time. How the

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heck are you doing.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing well.

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Speaker 4: How about yourself?

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Speaker 2: I am doing well.

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Speaker 1: I'm ready to pick your brain about a team who's offseason.

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Speaker 2: I kind of like flip flopped on pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was ready for the fireworks after

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KCP was poached on basically the first night we were

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hosting Bleacher Reports Free Agency Live show, and so Grant

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and I were we were ready for like the Orlando

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Magic to do capslock stuff, and then that ended up

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being the extent of their stuff. So I'm excited to

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get into this team with you. Did you want to

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give since this is your first time, any little background

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just about yourself, how you got into covering the Magic?

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Speaker 2: How long you've been doing it now? I know it's

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been a couple of seasons.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So I started December twenty twenty two, just before

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the team went on their six game win streak, and yeah,

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before that, I was covering the Hornets for Swarm and Sting,

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and then I was covering a different affiliation Before that

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which I don't really want to get into right now.

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But fortunately I've known Dan throughout the entire process before

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I joined the Six Man Show, and we've stayed pretty

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connected afterwards as well. So I appreciate you bringing me.

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Speaker 2: On, oh, but happy to get the chance to talk

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to you about this team.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, you've been killing it with them, so

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you're I always appreciate your threads on Twitter, so made

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that account. As we record this, it's suspended, which it

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happens to It happens to everybody, So screw FIBA is

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basically the moral of this story.

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Speaker 2: So I wanted to start with you here.

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Speaker 1: I think we have to look at what are you're

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just you know, looking at the off season in some

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what are your thoughts on it and kind of what

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it says about their their overall direction for this team.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so I'll start by out aligning my thoughts on KCP.

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I mean, as a former two time champion of me,

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he not only championship pedigree, but I mean, I think

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one other thing we have to mention is he fits

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Orlando's mold to a team. I mean, he's a prototypical

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three and D guard who fits seamlessly within Jamal Mosley's scheme,

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but he's also not a ball dominant player, so during

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his stops in LA and Denver, he's been surrounded by

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other star studded players in Lebron, James, Nikola, Jokic, and

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I've always appreciated his ability to compliment those guys by

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spacing the four and also like generating efficient looks off

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a ball screen or dribble handoff. And I know, like

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we all like to make fun of Orlando's offensive structure

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just because of how broken and deteriorated it is, but

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they do have a few commonalities within Denver's scheme that

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I think KCP, once he's inserted into, is going to

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make this offense less dry. I mean he's I believe

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he connected on forty point two percent of his off

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movement dribble and dolphs last season, which off the Dome

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I believe is good for the eighteenth best mark among

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the seventy seven players who took seventy five of them.

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And his ability as a movement shooter pairs really nicely

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with one of Orlando's favorite tactics, a dribble handoff play

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they like to run called Chicago Action.

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Speaker 3: Typically, they usually.

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Speaker 5: Run it with Wendell at the five, but due to

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his injury concerns this past season, they ran it.

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Speaker 3: Most frequently with Mo and Goga.

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Speaker 5: So they'll have sugs in the corner and he'll receive

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a pin down screen for Palo on the wing, and

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then he'll receive a DHO from either whoever's at the

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center spot at that point, whether that's Goga, Mo or

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wen Dell, and then he'll come around the top of

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the key and shoot that three. But unfortunately for the Magic,

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their lack of movement shooting in minimal space, they're only

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able to generate one may.

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Speaker 4: Three from that play of theirs.

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Speaker 5: So you enter KCP into that play, and I believe

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that you suddenly opened up a new, sheer variety of

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options in that Magic playbook in itself, and then you

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can get funky and creative from there. And I think,

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just I know, I only said one example, but that

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in itself should make this bottom chiered offense harder to

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decipher a come playoff time.

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Speaker 2: Were you?

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean there's I don't think there's an

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argument against CACPS fit on this team. I mean, even

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it's it's like an embarrassment of riches thing defensively to

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where he was fringe. He made one of my all

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defense teams last year, he did not make all defense overall.

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He was fringe all defense. And now you add that

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to a defense that was already second in point slot

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per possession, and when you look at the sheer breadth

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of assignments that he was covering in Denver. Now he

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gets to play next to Jailen Suggs. It makes his

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job easier, or it'll make Jalen Suggs's job even easier

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to where if he wants to know, go after even

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more turnovers away from the ball because cacp's on the court,

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so there's a lot of dynamic things they could do there.

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Were you surprised at although, especially given just by the

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way the other thing we have to shut out with

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KCP is that its next level gamesmanship. To me, I'm

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assuming this was part of the equation that you own

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Denver's draft pick and then you poach one of their

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most important players.

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Speaker 2: That's just smart business right there, objectively.

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Speaker 1: But were you surprised at all that this team didn't

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also go the route of I'm not saying when after

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someone super splashy, but like Okay, we didn't add any

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type of real offensive organizer this season.

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Speaker 2: Does that one work? Like I said, were you surprised?

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Speaker 1: But too, does it say anything about their I guess

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plans or level of confidence in not just you know,

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Anthony Black or Cole Anthony, but Jalen Suggs and Pawel

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Banco and Franz Wagner.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think most of all, it asserts their level of

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confidence in Anthony Black. And I was going to get

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into this later, but I think one of the biggest

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storylines I guess I'm following this season is Anthony Black's

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assertion as a lead facilitator in that eventual and Jim

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Suggs in a star role. I'll start with ad I

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think with the loss of Joe Engles, who assumed that

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last season as the offensive hub between him and Mo

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Volgner's two man game, I want to see if ab

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can inherit that responsibility off the bench in a lead

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creator role, and the idea of having a surefire point

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guard around to set the table has become the default

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I think around the league. But I think one of

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the most common misconceptions is making plays isn't the same thing.

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Speaker 4: As running a team.

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Speaker 5: I know that's been an emphasis for AB, and through

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a pair of Summer league games this past season, I

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thought he did a much better job of manipulating the defense.

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He's reading the helpside defenders a lot better than he

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was a season ago, and he's finding players a step

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late or step two slow before.

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Speaker 4: He's making those high level reads.

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Speaker 5: So I think all that combined with the fact that

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both he and Jan Suggs saw pretty much near non

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existent usage from within their offensive playbook. Specifically AB, I

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mean Jim almost he did less than the bare minimum

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and helping create offensive pathways for him even his big

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Dallas out offensive outburst. Most of ab scoring in that

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game came from having defend for himself versus having his

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number called within set plays. So I think adapting to

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the speed of the pro game is already a major

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struggle at first, and then you add seeing limited playing time,

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being thrust into the starting role and then being primarily

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utilized to defend the opponent, the opposing team's best guard,

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and then just not be awarded within set plays within

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the flow of an already like we mentioned, pretty bare

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and offensive playbook. It's rough, and I know on paper

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he played sixty nine games in his rookie season, but

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he only saw double digit in fifty fifty of those games.

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I believe in what a point guard needs most is time, patience,

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the water and sunlight of chances to fail, and then

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the structure and the opportunity to grow, because if you

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go back in time, Gion Suggs didn't have the greatest

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rookie season of all time, and now you can see

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that Orlando's presenting confidence and Sugs to take over that

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league guard role. And then I want to see if

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ab can be able to do that off the bench

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as well.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that they're going to have the time

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and space for Anthony Black to do that?

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Speaker 4: Though?

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Speaker 1: When you look at a team that and it's a

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very interesting storyline to focus on just because they have

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immediate aspirations, like they have time, just because Powell's not

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on his next contract yet even frond size his extension,

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but that doesn't kick in. This team is young, but

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like you made it to the playoffs, and progress of

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course isn't linear, but like the idea is, it's not

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win more games or make it further in the playoffs

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the last season, but it's have a better product at

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the end of everything, and there's a tug of war

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there where it's giving Anthony blackmore runway to run things

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on the offensive end that will go a long way,

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and maybe they have enough spacing around him now where

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they might even feel more comfortable with him doing it

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when you also are a team that's like you're supposed

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to be in the playoff conversation in the East, and

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I think some people even probably have them penciled in

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like the top five or top four just based off

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their defensive ceiling alone. How hard is it to juggle

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this idea that, oh, we want this sophomore to continue

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to develop like at one of the most important, like

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functional positions in the league. But hey, we also don't

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necessarily have the stomach for the growing pains to just like, oh,

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if he's out there and has a really bad game,

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can can we you know, are we built to overcome

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that and let that ride?

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Speaker 5: I don't think it necessarily is It doesn't necessarily have

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to be Anthony Black at the one and then give

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him the ball and everyone just get out of the

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way and let him creates a lot.

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Speaker 3: He's a six seven six ' eight guard.

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Speaker 5: He's a big guard, and there's a lot of things

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that he can do on the floor that doesn't necessarily

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equate to him having.

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Speaker 4: The ball in his hands.

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Speaker 5: I mean, in that Cleveland matchup in the playoffs, Orlando

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ran inverted screens for Paalabankia nine times. It didn't score

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a single point in Game one through their inverted screen set.

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I mean you put Anthony Black, and Anthony Black did

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a really good job of pairing with Palo bank Caro

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and weaponizing his ability as a screener in those inverted

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screen sets.

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Speaker 3: In specific, that.

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Speaker 4: Game against New York.

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Speaker 5: At home in Orlando and no guard on the Magic

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came close to sniffing more than one hundred screen assists.

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So if you want to put Anthony Black as a

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primary screener for Palo using his size, I think that

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in itself frees up a lot for Polo And one

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of the most common ways that he was able to

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do that this season, which we didn't really see a

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lot of because of his staggering minutes whether he was

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playing or not playing, was the Magic were very successful

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when ab was screening for Palo via wed screens or

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pin in screens. So he's going to I believe he's

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going to be a critical He's going to be critical

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for their potential playoff success if they want to advance

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and compete in the second round this season, whether that

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be the ball in his hands or other variations of

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him being involved in the offense and not just being

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thrust in the corner like he was last season saying hey,

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if you get the ball, just shoot it.

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Speaker 1: Do you trust though, because that will be part of

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his role in certain sets. Do you trust like the

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jumper to come along enough to where he's not I

254
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think people sometimes confuse shooting and floor spacing to where

255
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like floor spacing is you could be like, not so

256
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great shooter, but defenses respect you. And I think when

257
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you go back and look at it, Anty blackshot well

258
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from three last year, but it was on a negligible

259
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number of attempts, and you look at the way a

260
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lot of those were defended or the situations they came in,

261
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I wouldn't call it necessarily like capslock floor spacing.

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Speaker 2: How do you feel about sort of development of his.

263
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Speaker 1: Because that's going to be whether he's on the ball

264
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off the ball, like the jumper is going to be

265
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something that needs to be a trustworthy weapon in his arsenal.

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Speaker 5: I yeah, I expect the three point attempts not only

267
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for Anthony Black, but for everyone else to increase. But

268
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I know that the I know that, so I know

269
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the Magic. I believe there there were twenty seven to

270
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three point attempts. But when we'll talk about three point

271
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at times, I don't want you to just chuck up

272
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shots for the sole purpose of increasing those attempts.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: One of my biggest coaching s is coaches refusals to

275
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draw plays for certain players. I know we haven't touched

276
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on Gary Harris today yet, but throughout the playoffs as

277
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a veteran, he shot seven for twenty two, seven for

278
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twenty two. As a starter whose sole purpose for being

279
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on the Magic was to provide three and D.

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Speaker 3: He provided the D and No.

281
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Speaker 5: Three and not one of those plays was a drawn

282
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up play for him.

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Speaker 4: In those twenty two attempts.

284
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Speaker 5: I mean, he's not coming off of veer screen. He's

285
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not coming off a twist, a punch, strong curl, Oklahoma

286
00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,360
Finland double drag. All his attempts, every single one of them,

287
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were a result of kickouts. And so going back to

288
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your point, not only for Anthony Black, for the entire team.

289
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I want the attempts to increase, but I want more

290
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,399
of an emphasis to be drawn on drawing up plays

291
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,799
to create advantages and space for shooters, not just that

292
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,639
them in the corner and then having them receive the

293
00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:05,919
ball off kickouts. It's just not It just hasn't worked,

294
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,120
and I don't believe it's gonna work the more you

295
00:14:08,159 --> 00:14:08,519
do it.

296
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Speaker 1: Do you think that could maybe be a function of

297
00:14:12,279 --> 00:14:16,600
their lack of trust in the actual like offensive accessories

298
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:18,519
on this team to where it's the way to generate

299
00:14:19,399 --> 00:14:21,759
good spacing around And I'm just gonna use this guy

300
00:14:21,759 --> 00:14:23,240
as an example because he's the most mort player on

301
00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:24,799
the team, but like when you go back and look

302
00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:27,399
at just like Palo Bang Hero drives and how much

303
00:14:27,399 --> 00:14:29,080
spit were like when he's in like how much space

304
00:14:29,159 --> 00:14:32,360
this dude does not have to operate? You do organically

305
00:14:32,399 --> 00:14:35,240
kind of stretch defenses by having guys in the corners,

306
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,080
and if you don't trust players to either run or

307
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,799
execute the more complicated stuff, and look, they're dealing with

308
00:14:40,799 --> 00:14:42,399
a young team. You know, we're talking about Anthony Black,

309
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,799
Bilon Suggs just finished up year three. So if you're

310
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not necessarily trusting those guys in those actions that you're

311
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,879
outlining it, Like, do you think that that had to

312
00:14:51,879 --> 00:14:54,399
do with a level of concern and we're not even concerned,

313
00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:56,200
but like we're still trying to feel out like what

314
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,480
these young guys are going to be able to do?

315
00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:59,840
Or do you really think that it was just kind

316
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,039
of like this functional cop out a little bit that

317
00:15:02,039 --> 00:15:04,960
there should have been more complicated stuff being run.

318
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's more of a functional cop out

319
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,159
than the alternative. And some of it, like from a

320
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,759
half court perspective that the team just wasn't like you said,

321
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,240
they just weren't running many complex plays to alter the

322
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,879
defensive structure. Opposing teams are basing because everyone coming into

323
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,919
the night new we're gonna switch to Blitz, Pilo and

324
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,639
Franz and everyone else on the corners. If they're gonna

325
00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:28,679
beat us, they're gonna beat us. We're gonna live with that.

326
00:15:29,399 --> 00:15:33,000
But I think in a bird's eye view, I mean

327
00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:38,639
the loss of their primary offensive play color Nativots came

328
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,360
just a few weeks before the season that started, and

329
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,240
he accepted a head coaching gig for the Phoenix Mercury

330
00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:49,919
with not a lot of time to replace to replace him,

331
00:15:49,919 --> 00:15:53,120
and Jesse Murmis took over the play calling duties and

332
00:15:53,159 --> 00:15:56,840
it didn't necessarily bore with leading and it led to

333
00:15:56,879 --> 00:15:58,960
a lot of clunk. I mean, they don't have many

334
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,759
secondary ball hands either, so someone who can create their

335
00:16:02,759 --> 00:16:05,360
shot off to dribble aside from Cole Palo Franz and

336
00:16:05,399 --> 00:16:08,399
to a degree jail in so if and when their

337
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,240
primary action didn't work, you were just left with like

338
00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:15,879
you mentioned at Palo Bank hero Iso, which was another

339
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,200
direct result of his poor efficiency. And then I think

340
00:16:20,759 --> 00:16:24,679
ab Jet and the addition of KCP helps in that

341
00:16:24,759 --> 00:16:27,720
regard as because I believe all three of those guys

342
00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:30,960
are connective passers and having more guys on the floor

343
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,320
who can create advantages and provide relief options is just

344
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,519
good for an offense that has been non existent for

345
00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:39,200
We're going on about two seasons now.

346
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:43,399
Speaker 1: So Franz Vagner gets the max with the language that

347
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,360
could take it to a thirty percent max up in

348
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,399
the twenty five percent max. I want to start there

349
00:16:48,519 --> 00:16:51,200
with him. Are you want to use the work at all?

350
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,600
Surprised like they didn't even wait for it to get

351
00:16:53,639 --> 00:16:55,360
to restrict the freegiency. It doesn't seem like there's any

352
00:16:55,399 --> 00:16:58,519
hard negotiating going on just based off what we've seen

353
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,720
from him. Did you view him, if you like, as

354
00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:05,039
a no brainer max guy, and especially one where it's

355
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,640
I know we frame it as well, teams welcome to

356
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,319
pay these guys. Let's say he does make all MBA

357
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,839
and the contract gets elevated to the thirty percent in

358
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,880
deory you as a team, you're happy to pay that

359
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,680
because the leap that he just had. But like part

360
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,720
of the negotiation process and why restrictive free agencies exists

361
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,359
is well, like, couldn't you have just gotten this deal

362
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,319
done at the bare minimum without that language in there,

363
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:25,599
so that if he did have that type of leap,

364
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:26,759
you're like, oh, we still have this guy out a

365
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:29,279
twenty five percent max, So I'll throw I'll start it

366
00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:31,720
with this to throw my take out there, I would

367
00:17:31,759 --> 00:17:34,880
have made him wait just because functionally, I know they're

368
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,720
not going to be a cap space team moving forward,

369
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,039
but you still would have had more flexibility. And I

370
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,920
just don't know that he has shown enough for me

371
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,440
to say this guy was a no brainer opening of

372
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,640
the offseason.

373
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,440
Speaker 2: Like, let's give him. I think he's a fantastic player.

374
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:48,559
Speaker 1: If you go back and look at some of the

375
00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:50,720
stuff I said about him defensively coming out of the draft,

376
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,119
look like a fucking idiot. So I recognize that Franz

377
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,640
Vaughner is a fantastic basketball player. I just found it.

378
00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,720
I think the word is probably interesting fascinating that this

379
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,960
was done so quickly without it seems like any sort

380
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,160
of just what we need, like they have decided that

381
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:08,599
he is our just number two guy.

382
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:09,519
Speaker 2: That's how I view it.

383
00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's how I viewed it as well.

384
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,200
And I think the reason why I don't have any

385
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,319
inside information when I say this, I think one of

386
00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:20,640
the reasons why it came so quickly is just to

387
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,279
showcase Paula bank Caro and this new generation of Magic

388
00:18:24,319 --> 00:18:25,960
team that hey, we're not going to operate how we

389
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,359
did in the past with the other guys, and the

390
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,680
Magic have the best young forward combination of the league

391
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,000
and Fontin Polo. So the writing for me was on

392
00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:36,720
the wall that this contract was coming. He's one of

393
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,319
their cornerstone players. The contract reflects it, and the team

394
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,559
is being constructed around both forwards, playmaking and versatility. He's

395
00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:47,400
also one of four other players in Magic history to

396
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,559
eclipse four thousand points before their twenty third birthday. He

397
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,839
joins the lead company and Tracy McGrady, Penny Hardaway, and

398
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,119
Shaquille O'Neal. If his three point shooting bounces back, in

399
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,079
addition to what he already provides as a driver and

400
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,160
a playmaker who is extremely young in his showcase, the

401
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,880
ability to complement your all star, I think it's a

402
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:07,440
no brainer.

403
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,799
Speaker 1: What do you make of the actual jump shot, the

404
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:13,279
stuff by and large, the counters that he has inside

405
00:19:13,279 --> 00:19:15,559
the arc. He's like at this combination of force in finesse,

406
00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:18,480
he's terrific to watch. His year over year three point

407
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,440
percentage has declined. He has peaked on his jump shot percentage.

408
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,240
I think it like an effective field goal rate of

409
00:19:23,319 --> 00:19:26,039
fifty point six or something that was in his sophomore season,

410
00:19:26,079 --> 00:19:28,799
not last year. What do you make of that? Do

411
00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:30,279
you notice anything mechanically?

412
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:30,559
Speaker 2: Is it?

413
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,440
Speaker 1: Oh, this dude has played a lot of basketball over

414
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:33,799
the past couple of years. When you look at all

415
00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:36,519
the FEBA games. Is it also a function of Because

416
00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:38,359
we'll bring this up with and I want to use

417
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,839
an excuse, but it's a reasoning I use for palace efficiency.

418
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,200
Is look at the space in which he's working, and

419
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,559
look at the defensive attention he's commanding. If you had

420
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,200
to just boil it down though to one factor, like

421
00:19:49,519 --> 00:19:51,559
what is the driving force for that? And is this

422
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,319
something that it has to be something worth monitoring? But

423
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,160
is it all concerning when you kind of look at

424
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,279
how the year over year efficiency is gone before?

425
00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 5: I answer was whenever we're talking about shooting mechanics, I

426
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,319
always like to ask, like people who don't watch the

427
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,160
team as closely as I do, because I feel like

428
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,240
once you watch a team so closely, you just become

429
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:14,039
you just kind of that form just becomes second nature

430
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,000
to watching. So when you watch Funds, do you feel

431
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:19,519
like his mechanics are off by any sense?

432
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: I won't pretend to be a jump shot expert. I

433
00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:24,400
will say a cadence at which he takes it. It

434
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,119
does And I don't know if this is a mental thing,

435
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,279
but sometimes it feels like it slows down, and I

436
00:20:29,319 --> 00:20:30,559
don't know if it has to do with the action

437
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,000
that the jumper is coming out of or the circumstances

438
00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:35,400
under which he's taking it. That's the only kind of

439
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,759
thing I've noticed. Then it does feel like there might

440
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:40,960
be stretches where the shots are like, I don't even

441
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,839
know how to describe them. I don't want to say

442
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,240
so off, but it's almost is this Is this a

443
00:20:45,279 --> 00:20:48,279
function of tired legs? And is that because he's played

444
00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:51,039
so much basketball? Is it because what he's maybe doing

445
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:52,680
defensively or the stuff that he has to do when

446
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,000
he's actually on the ball. So I to honestly why

447
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,880
I'm asking you, because I find it's so curious that

448
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,039
a player I view is as talented as him when

449
00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:01,039
you kind of look at the progres of and again,

450
00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:04,599
he had like a pretty efficient season on his inside

451
00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:05,200
the arc jumpers.

452
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 2: I believe as a sophomore.

453
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember I'm misremembering which campaign it was, but

454
00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:10,640
just a player at his level, you would expect to

455
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,519
see like kind of more year over year improvement from

456
00:21:13,599 --> 00:21:16,119
And I just don't know whether it's him or whether

457
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,000
it's the environment in which the Magic have placed him

458
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:20,359
these past few years.

459
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

460
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,319
Speaker 5: So he's always had an unconventional hip degree and shoulder

461
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,039
to knee to tow alignment. I actually went, I actually

462
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:34,720
spoke to a shooting coach from un T. I spoke

463
00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:38,000
to multiple shooting coaches and I showed them Franz's clips,

464
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:40,440
and what I got was at his knee at his

465
00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:43,720
release motion or roughly at ninety three degrees, and his

466
00:21:43,799 --> 00:21:45,799
hip degree lines up at a one hundred and twenty

467
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:47,279
two degrees, And.

468
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 3: What they told me was, typically.

469
00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 5: You're taught to ideally be a ninety ninety degree angle

470
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,559
to allow yourself the most balanced. So when he brings

471
00:21:55,599 --> 00:21:58,240
the ball up to his stet point and releases through,

472
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,720
he's recently lost his arc from his rookie season and

473
00:22:02,759 --> 00:22:05,440
the shot has like kind of translated to almost looking

474
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,599
like a laser to where it has almost little to

475
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,160
no arc, but it kind of like variations of it.

476
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,400
But it was so noticeable over the course of the

477
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,200
season that Franz worked alongside shooting coach Jeremiah Boswell to

478
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:22,680
improve his arc, and they actually came up with the

479
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:26,000
verbiage called tickle the stars, meaning when he would release,

480
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,079
he wanted France to release a to the point where

481
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,319
he was the shot would tickle the stars it would

482
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:38,640
be so high, and I understand the Orlando Magic spacing

483
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:39,799
might be a result of that.

484
00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 3: So I went back and I.

485
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 5: Looked at his Olympics percentages, and since the conclusion of

486
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,279
the season in India Olympics. He converted only seven of

487
00:22:49,319 --> 00:22:52,400
his thirty five to three point attempts in playing for

488
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,440
Germany in the four freebay games they played in the

489
00:22:56,599 --> 00:23:01,440
men's twenty twenty four Olympics, which sits at twenty now.

490
00:23:01,519 --> 00:23:05,319
As bad as that number is, he did average five

491
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,519
point eight attempts in the Olympics, which kind of alleviates

492
00:23:09,559 --> 00:23:12,920
my concerns to agree, because it showcases the confidence he

493
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,960
has in his shot, unlike Markel folks who won't even

494
00:23:17,319 --> 00:23:20,559
attempt to take a three point shot despite how open

495
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:23,680
he is. So I would say my concern level at

496
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,839
this point is a result more of he's.

497
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 4: Just played so much basketball.

498
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 5: Do you go back to last summer they played your

499
00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:35,480
basket and they got gold, and then you go through

500
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,960
a gruling You go through a grueling season, and then

501
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,440
you play a playoff game, and then you have a

502
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,720
few weeks off before you're back in a training camp

503
00:23:43,759 --> 00:23:46,359
for Germany, and then you're competing in.

504
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,759
Speaker 3: This grueling friendly games.

505
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 5: You got multiple friendly games that start in July and

506
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,880
then all the way until almost just a tip of August,

507
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:01,119
you're competing and you're competing for the Olympic for your country.

508
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 4: So I want, I.

509
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 5: Want to say that that's what that is. But give

510
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,880
me another season before I'm really able to tell you

511
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,079
exactly what's going on. But yeah, twenty percent after whatever

512
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,279
he shot in the regular season, it's pretty barren and

513
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,039
his shot arc hasn't looked any better in the Olympics

514
00:24:20,039 --> 00:24:20,480
as well.

515
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: Jalen Suggs also extension aege, Well, do you think he

516
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,200
gets an extension? And is there like, if you're running

517
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,039
the organization, what is the walkaway number of the number

518
00:24:32,039 --> 00:24:33,599
that you look at Jalen Suggs, you look at his

519
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,680
potential and that you would be comfortable giving him.

520
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 5: I can't speak to a number i'd be willing to

521
00:24:39,759 --> 00:24:45,039
give him, but I do believe why one expected.

522
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 4: Him to get paid.

523
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 5: I mean, throughout his tenure in Orlando, he routinely went

524
00:24:50,279 --> 00:24:52,279
out of his way to state his love and affection

525
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,680
for the fan base in the city, as well as

526
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,559
his desire to remain in the.

527
00:24:56,519 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 4: Blue and White.

528
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,839
Speaker 5: I can't speak to where those conversations, those contract conversations

529
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,440
are at the moment, but if Jeff Weltman's desire is

530
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,319
to see where a full season of Suggs running the

531
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,119
team from a point guard perspective and being the answer

532
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,279
to Palla Banker of the needs of having a facilitator

533
00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:16,920
around him more, I don't have a problem with the

534
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,279
Magic waiting it out in that sense until the following

535
00:25:20,319 --> 00:25:23,240
season to lock him in. So that's kind of where

536
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,079
I stand with the Suggs contract at this point. But

537
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,079
I do believe a deal will get done, whether that

538
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,680
be by the deadline in October or next season.

539
00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:36,559
Speaker 2: Hopefully it doesn't happen before this episode comes out.

540
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,279
Speaker 1: I'll say so he's improved as a shooter, obviously. I

541
00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:44,640
don't think his passing improvement. It's not like super complicated stuff,

542
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,839
but I definitely think that he's improved some of his

543
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,759
live dribble stuff, some his open floor stuff.

544
00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:52,319
Speaker 2: What does the next Frontier look like for a jail

545
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,000
On Suggs.

546
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I'll speak to the passing for a second.

547
00:25:58,039 --> 00:26:01,440
I mean, when he took over the point guard role

548
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:04,880
for Markel fall to me as I watched him progress

549
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:10,359
in that role, he progressed as a passer. And now

550
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,799
it's not some insane passing ability, but he got much

551
00:26:13,839 --> 00:26:16,599
better at using his eyes as he got much better

552
00:26:16,599 --> 00:26:21,359
at weaponizing his eyes. Over the course of the season,

553
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,440
he showed no fear in attacking zones and blitzes. I

554
00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:27,400
remember a play against the Chicago Bulls where Andre Drummond

555
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,319
and Kobe White switched to blitz pollow near the free

556
00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:33,920
throw line extended, and I'm watching Jalen Suggs using his

557
00:26:34,079 --> 00:26:37,680
vision before the ball even reaches him to scan the

558
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,960
defense off ball. And once Polo passed him the ball

559
00:26:42,039 --> 00:26:45,000
out of that switch to blitz, instead of letting an

560
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:47,799
open three rip off the catch, which nine out of

561
00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:50,599
ten players would have done in that situation, he threw

562
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,079
a dark mid air to the low post for an

563
00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:56,519
immediate pay touch for Mae Wagner, which I found very

564
00:26:56,559 --> 00:26:59,759
impressive in I believe him to be more of a

565
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:04,240
quarterback on the court than an actual half court point

566
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,200
guard who can get you in and out of sets.

567
00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: But I think that ask whether you thought you had

568
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:10,640
that in him, because I think that's the part of

569
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,240
his game. I look at and I'm like, if he

570
00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:15,400
could do that, it's it's honestly, it's called.

571
00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: Course altering for both him and the franchise.

572
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:18,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

573
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 5: No, I think he's more of a transition point guard

574
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,279
and quarterback on the court type of deal. But I

575
00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:31,039
think the biggest kind of frontier for him is you

576
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,960
mentioned it earlier, but he no longer has to be

577
00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:37,119
Orlando's primary defensive anchoring. You have KCP now allowing you

578
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,359
to defend twos now versus last year in the playoffs,

579
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,200
where you're having to defend Donovan Mitchell, who's coming off

580
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,480
double drags with both Jared Allen and Evan Mobley as

581
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,200
a screener is wearing you out as you navigate around

582
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,279
those screens for a rear view contest. And I went

583
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:57,720
back and I actually looked it as subsist stats by quarter,

584
00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:00,440
because I do believe this is a real thing that

585
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,680
I want him to improve at. In the first quarter,

586
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,400
he was the second leading scorer for the Magic with

587
00:28:06,519 --> 00:28:09,480
three hundred and twenty three points, and coming out of

588
00:28:09,519 --> 00:28:12,039
halftime he was the top three score for the Magic

589
00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:15,079
at three hundred and seven points. But in quarter number

590
00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:20,200
two and quarter number four, where his motor kind of

591
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,079
kind of runs low because.

592
00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 4: Of all the.

593
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 5: Defensive chaos he's causing, he only scored one hundred and

594
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,039
seventy six points all season. In the second quarter, which

595
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:33,920
puts him at fourth and in the fourth quarter he

596
00:28:34,599 --> 00:28:37,799
total one thirty one points, which would put him below

597
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,000
Cole Anthony and Mo Wagner at fifth in the closing quarter.

598
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:44,960
So I believe in those quarters where you feel the

599
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:47,480
mileage you can take a bit of you can have

600
00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:49,079
him take a bit of a back seat as a

601
00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:52,960
defensive pest and provide help if you're a nonspacer, just

602
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,559
his ability to be in that kind of context, and

603
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,599
take some of the regular season milea jeosh off of

604
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,680
him because you have an all defensive caliber veteran guard

605
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,359
alongside you to take on those assignments and quarter number

606
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,359
two and four so you're able to provide more of

607
00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:12,440
a lift offensively with the ball will be a smooth

608
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,960
transition for him and the remainder of the offense.

609
00:29:16,119 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: Paula Bankero is I'm sure you're where of this is

610
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:23,279
somewhat divisive figure when we're talking from the national perspective,

611
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,400
where this podcast stance is mostly he is hashtag that dude.

612
00:29:27,559 --> 00:29:29,240
But I think a lot of people kind of glomb

613
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:32,079
on to his efficiency through the first couple of years

614
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:33,680
of his career and they're like, oh, look at his

615
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,079
true shooting percentage, and he's never shot better than thirty

616
00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:40,279
four percent from three. What is the rebuke? We've made

617
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:42,680
a rebuke to it? What is your your brute?

618
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:45,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is your response to it?

619
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 5: Like?

620
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: Is it really is?

621
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: You want to use the word simple, but like, look

622
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,920
at the types of shots he's taking. Look at the

623
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,720
defensive attention he's commanding. Look at the level of responsibility

624
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:54,880
he has shouldered on the offensive and not just as

625
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,319
a shot maker and score, but just like the primary

626
00:29:57,319 --> 00:30:00,519
ball handler and facilitator and driver of the off because

627
00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:02,240
of the players that have been in place around him.

628
00:30:02,279 --> 00:30:05,039
And then I also don't know how you watch the playoffs.

629
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,960
Granted it was you know, he's only there for seven games,

630
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,519
but it's his first taste of playoff basketball, and he's

631
00:30:11,559 --> 00:30:14,640
just an absolute monster, averaging twenty seven points, four assists,

632
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,440
shooting forty percent on three from three on real volume.

633
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,039
Speaker 2: I just I think I'm more.

634
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: So asking like, is there any justification behind like the

635
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:25,480
concern about his You can look at the free throws

636
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,200
and say, okay, be nice for he made those at

637
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,599
a higher clip, But I don't know how you look

638
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,359
at the circumstances under which he has played his first

639
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,039
two seasons and I'm not saying throw it out the window,

640
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:38,039
but kind of understand why his efficiency is where it is.

641
00:30:39,079 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, all what you said, plus the fact that

642
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,920
in his sophomore season he was in the top ten

643
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,160
of most doubled players in isolation and in those instances,

644
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:51,039
I mean, he usually does a good job of hitting

645
00:30:51,079 --> 00:30:53,759
the gaps. I've never watched him and I felt like

646
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:56,359
he isn't hitting the gaps if the team is switching

647
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:57,200
against him or.

648
00:30:57,519 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: Ducking under him.

649
00:30:58,799 --> 00:31:01,319
Speaker 5: I've been pretty okay with how quickly he's pulling up,

650
00:31:01,759 --> 00:31:04,200
and when he isn't pulling up, he's firing one hand

651
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:09,920
court passes, cross court passes Withion Williams. Zion Williamson draped

652
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,519
all over him to an open Gary Harris in the corner,

653
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,480
only to watch Gary brick that wide open three pointer.

654
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:20,640
So as the season grew, I believe that both Jamal

655
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,799
Mosley and Paulo Bancaro got better in that regard. Following

656
00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:26,960
the All Star Break, there was a stretch of games

657
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,240
against the Raptors and the Kings where the two guard

658
00:31:30,319 --> 00:31:33,200
whether that was Gary Harris, but he was injured for

659
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,680
a little bit, so Cale Houston took that role. They

660
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,160
would set a flex screen for Powlow to come off,

661
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,640
flipping the sides of the block that he was on

662
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,680
immediately nearest near the nearest wing defender whoever that would be,

663
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,839
would switch to blitz Pallow and that would result in

664
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:55,599
Pollo immediately open passing to an open Franz Wagner or

665
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,319
Jalenes Suggs for automatic three pointers. So I think having

666
00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:02,839
a station there and moving perimeter threat alongside the first

667
00:32:02,839 --> 00:32:06,599
time All Star is invaluable. With the addition of KCP

668
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,759
drafting De Silva hopefully Jet Howard getting into season, just

669
00:32:11,799 --> 00:32:15,400
giving him more reliable targets and an extra step defenses

670
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,039
have to process before thinking about, yeah, let's blitz this

671
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:22,920
guy without having it to be a direct causation of Yeah,

672
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,759
every time we want to get Paolo open, we got

673
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:26,440
to draw plays routinely for this guy.

674
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be interested like the data on how many

675
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,480
times he needs to give the ball up to then

676
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:32,839
go out, Like if he's getting the ball on the

677
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,039
elbow in the post and then there's like the doubles

678
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:36,960
already there, he has to kick it back out then

679
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,559
go up and set a screen to get the ball

680
00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:41,839
back in a somewhat advantageous situation. It feels like he

681
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,079
might be among the league leaders, and like the amount

682
00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:46,039
of times that that is needed to happen, and you

683
00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:48,000
don't want you know, I was gonna ask you, like,

684
00:32:48,039 --> 00:32:49,880
what does the next frontier look like for him? And

685
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,799
there's a bunch of things you could focus on. It

686
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,799
might be a questionable what does the next frontier look

687
00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:55,680
like for the Magic to where maybe he doesn't always

688
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,359
have to work so hard to get his points?

689
00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:02,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, No, Like I said, I think you surround

690
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,319
him with the invaluable addition of like I said, KCP

691
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:09,599
drafting this of a hopefully jer Howard getting minutes this season,

692
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:13,000
just giving him more reliable targets and extra step defenses

693
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:16,000
after process, like I said before, we're thinking about let's

694
00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:16,680
blit this guy.

695
00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 4: But I think going back.

696
00:33:18,119 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 5: To your point about what the next frontier looks like

697
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:26,640
for Polo, Polo's so awesome that I think the next

698
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,440
frontier for him has to do more with off like

699
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:35,079
more more mechanically and structurally. I want, I want his

700
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,680
comfort with the feel of the game and his relationship

701
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,079
with Jamal Moseley.

702
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:39,759
Speaker 4: To to evolve.

703
00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:43,359
Speaker 5: I think I saw both those things grow exponentially throughout

704
00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:46,920
the season, and it carried over into the playoffs. I

705
00:33:47,079 --> 00:33:49,640
remember watching a play while Franz was shooting free throws

706
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:50,480
against the Cavs.

707
00:33:51,359 --> 00:33:52,599
Speaker 4: I believe it was Game five.

708
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 5: Moseley called for white stock from from the sideline and

709
00:33:56,279 --> 00:34:00,079
from uh Polo. Banko quickly motioned over to him and

710
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,000
was like, I don't want to run white stack right now.

711
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:06,200
I want you to give me the Isaacacorro matchup in

712
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:12,360
isolation and just let me go to work. And behold,

713
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,559
he went to score three consecutive times with a Coro

714
00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:19,239
as his defender, two of which were fading away jumpers.

715
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,679
And I think in January, I want to say it

716
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,679
was January seventh against the Hawks. They were in a

717
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,119
tip and knock battle with the Atlanta Hawks with Dejontay

718
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:32,760
Murray at the line, and Powell called seventy seven, which

719
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,519
is Orlando's double drag play for and he didn't call

720
00:34:37,559 --> 00:34:40,400
it for himself. He called it for Caleb Houston with

721
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,360
the team down three, and so was he was willing

722
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,880
to station himself as a screener within that play to

723
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,920
generate an open three in the corner for Houston, who

724
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,159
did convert the shot, which eventually led to Orlando winning

725
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:58,320
and ot over Atlanta. So I think just him and

726
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,599
Jamal Moseley kind of any a better feel for each

727
00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:06,360
other going into year three and going into what I

728
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,480
believe will be another playoff experience will just be good

729
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,360
for him. And I think that's the next frontier for

730
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,400
him more so in a sense of because that that

731
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,239
that space is I do believe is gonna come in.

732
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,039
I can't I couldn't tweet this, but I guess I'll

733
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:27,400
say it. Orlando is pivoting away from their offensive coordinator

734
00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:31,119
Jesse Murmis from last season, and there they've made a

735
00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:35,480
few few promotions from within, so I do believe their

736
00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:37,840
offense will look different next season.

737
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 1: What do you think will be the biggest even like

738
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,800
keeping it the pala, what do you if you had

739
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,239
to predict or I know you've laid out through your hope, Like,

740
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,159
what will then be the biggest difference for how he's used.

741
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 5: I want him to be used as a screener more because.

742
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: Right now in space, like if you have like actual

743
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,960
spacing around him with him as a screener with just

744
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,519
the passing instincts that I've I think he showcased like

745
00:35:59,519 --> 00:36:01,159
even like the lot of gripple stuff from him has

746
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:04,719
been really really good, especially last season. Yeah, I would

747
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,280
be I'll be off for seeing more of that.

748
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

749
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 5: I mean almost every single time that he was he

750
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,000
operated as a screener, whether that was against a I

751
00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:16,840
remember one of the games in against Toronto, he was

752
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,760
having a terrible night. I think he was four for

753
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,480
eleven or four for thirteen or something crazy like that

754
00:36:22,519 --> 00:36:26,400
in the first half, and I remember shutting my computer

755
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,280
off at halftime and saying that, damn, I want them

756
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,599
to use Palo as a screener to alleviate to alleviate

757
00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:36,159
that pressure, because all Toronto was doing was just absolutely

758
00:36:36,159 --> 00:36:39,519
blitzing him and Lo and Behold. To open the second half,

759
00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:42,559
they actually started Joe Ingles at point and they just

760
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,440
ran taking rolls with Poulo as a screener, using Joe

761
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:50,719
Ingles three point shooting as a threat. And I think

762
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,599
given and provided the right offensive structure around powow and

763
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,119
assuming that Jet Howard does see minutes and KCP and

764
00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:06,559
Gary Harris and Jales Suggs all get better and evolve

765
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,320
as three point shooters, and Franz's three point shoter comes

766
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,639
along as well. The heights that Pollow's offensive structure can

767
00:37:14,679 --> 00:37:18,760
go to as a screener alone would be invaluable.

768
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: Do you believe this is more of just a it's

769
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,280
my own agenda. Do you believe in the step back?

770
00:37:26,639 --> 00:37:28,519
Speaker 5: No, I do not believe in a step back at all.

771
00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:34,320
I genuinely, I genuinely despising a step back. And I'll say,

772
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:35,599
I'll tell you the reason.

773
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:36,679
Speaker 4: Why I don't like seeing step back.

774
00:37:37,159 --> 00:37:40,519
Speaker 5: And maybe I'm just having like nightmares from watching what

775
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:43,199
he did against the Kings and the Warriors. There were

776
00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:47,360
two instances this season, and it was down the stretch

777
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,480
where they could have locked up a potential number two seed.

778
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,719
And both times the Magic were down three against the

779
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,119
Kings and the Warriors with about a minute and fifteen

780
00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:00,840
left to go in in the and they're closing in

781
00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:04,880
the final quarter of regulation, and I wanted it was.

782
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:06,719
I actually went back and I watched it take today

783
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,239
because I knew you were going to bring this up.

784
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,119
With sixteen seconds left on the shot clock, he took

785
00:38:11,119 --> 00:38:13,880
a step back three and they didn't run the play

786
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,400
that was being called on the sideline at all. And

787
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,000
he did that multiple times over the course of the season.

788
00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:21,679
Speaker 3: This did. I'm just outlined.

789
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 4: I'm just outlining two for you.

790
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,559
Speaker 5: So I just I just don't enjoy seeing him, specially

791
00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:31,960
take a step back three, especially given the circumstances of

792
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:32,800
those games.

793
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: I think, so my, you cover this team, watch them

794
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:39,320
way more than I do. But my argument again, like

795
00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:41,840
against that would be if he used it as a

796
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,639
crutch to where it felt like he was in high volume,

797
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,760
like kind of leaning on that too much, Like this

798
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,000
isn't James Hardener, Luka Doncic. There's there was that game,

799
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,800
can'tmeraer which game it was against Cleveland, but like it's

800
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,239
in the third quarter, the shot clocks at like seven

801
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,159
or eight, and like you now have this guy he

802
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,000
drains a step back, like with four or five seconds

803
00:38:59,039 --> 00:39:00,599
left on the shot clock from a bit of the break,

804
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,840
like to have that in your arsenal. And it happens

805
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,920
after surveying the floor for a couple of seconds. He's

806
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,679
not making it a dead ball. And if you were

807
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:09,280
also watching, not you watching, Like if we're watching his

808
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,960
other three pointers, it's not like, oh, he's catching it

809
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,679
and then has to like go into his dribble moves.

810
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,159
I like, I believe in it as I think I

811
00:39:16,199 --> 00:39:18,679
believe in it so much because it feels like an

812
00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:20,800
interesting counter or it's like when you look at what

813
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,400
Nicole Jokic does, completely different players will make that clear,

814
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,599
but like he gets the ball these grenades what could

815
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:28,320
be grenades all the time, and he just has the

816
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,840
ability to get to the sombor shuffle or throw off

817
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,519
these ridiculous off balance jump shots that go in and

818
00:39:34,559 --> 00:39:37,119
it's like they're never a crutch, They're never a crux

819
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:38,039
of his game.

820
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: And I don't feel that way with Palo.

821
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: It feels more like, I know, look, the percentages aren't

822
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,079
there just yet he shot like I think he only

823
00:39:45,079 --> 00:39:46,880
made one step the step back I'm actually referencing the

824
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,360
PLAYFFS might have be his only step back of the

825
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,280
series that went in. But like to have that tool,

826
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:53,840
and I think you look at just how comfort how

827
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,400
comfortable he seems getting to it and the space that

828
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,400
he kind of generates on it without too much effort,

829
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,519
and he just has the size to shoot over guys

830
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:04,360
to begin with. I'm just not used to seeing someone

831
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,960
who's not a wing sized, Like there are wings there

832
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,800
are as tall as him, but he's built like a

833
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,960
big like an actual forward and to see someone like

834
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,400
that just get to a step back and looking at

835
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,480
how fluid it looks.

836
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,679
Speaker 2: To me, I just I'm a believer in it. I'm

837
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,199
not saying he needs to take five a game, but

838
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:19,800
I believe.

839
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,679
Speaker 1: My next question for you is, uh, the can we

840
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,480
go through some of the younger guys you already talked

841
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,320
about Anthony Black, so I think there are two more

842
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,800
that stand out, just to see what type of role

843
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,159
you think they might have, her general impressions you have

844
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,519
of their game, and I think we'll believe, We'll believe.

845
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,360
Let's begin with Jet Howard, who just didn't play meaningful

846
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,039
minutes for them last year, spends a lot of the

847
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:43,280
time in Osceola, And I was writing something a couple

848
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:44,719
of months ago where I watched a bunch of what

849
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,559
Jet Howard was doing, and I was like, not, I

850
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:49,679
don't want to say I'm miffed why he wasn't playing

851
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,920
for like the bigger club, but he was doing a

852
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,639
lot of the stuff that it felt like their offense

853
00:40:55,039 --> 00:40:56,880
could have needed and might have opened things up for

854
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,400
everybody else. And so do you see him even with

855
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,880
the infusion of KCP, like getting the opportunity to have

856
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,559
at least a somewhat regular role this season.

857
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 5: So yeah, no, I'll speak on Jet and Da Silva

858
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,719
at once. And like you just alluded to what the

859
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,840
Magic offense needs and what Howard and Dsilva both can

860
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,199
provide go hand in hand as ideal fits. And watching

861
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,000
Tristan in Summer League and Howard throughout his rookie season

862
00:41:21,079 --> 00:41:25,519
at Osceola even when both the biggest thing that stood

863
00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:28,559
out to me about both players was even when both

864
00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:32,639
players aren't doing something, they're still doing something due to

865
00:41:32,679 --> 00:41:35,239
the gravity that they command on the floor in itself.

866
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,960
In Summer League, the Magic utilize stack screen actions and

867
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:43,559
another play called Twist, but within their stack screen set

868
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:48,159
either they ran it twice with Jet on the floor

869
00:41:48,199 --> 00:41:50,559
and Disilva not on the floor, and with Disilva on

870
00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:53,639
the floor and Jet not on the floor, but anyways,

871
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,760
they'd have either guy set the stack screen and then

872
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,559
Jay Scrubb is the ball screener with Ab rejecting the

873
00:42:01,559 --> 00:42:05,239
ball screen, and when Ab would go away from him

874
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,119
multiple times, it would just become a simple rip for

875
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,000
scrub to go to the rim and with one defender

876
00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:15,400
to guard too, and both times when the Magic ran

877
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,519
it against the Cavaliers opening night on Summer League. Both

878
00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:22,679
defenders traveled with the shooter, which was jet or Disilva.

879
00:42:24,119 --> 00:42:27,400
So I think that in itself and then that left

880
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,000
scrub wide open under the rim. I think you pair

881
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:34,559
that with how important Da Silva and je Howard are

882
00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:37,880
as ghost screeners, and is those type of advantages I

883
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,360
imagine that Orlando can bring to the offense to provide

884
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:42,000
it that lift.

885
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:46,119
Speaker 1: So do you think that the Silver specifically, do you

886
00:42:46,159 --> 00:42:49,039
think that he's gonna get any run with the like

887
00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:50,400
there is that and that's that sort of like, well,

888
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,519
if we have to phase out Gary Harris type situation

889
00:42:53,519 --> 00:42:55,199
like it, because you look at his roster, it's deep,

890
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,199
and so you could say, yeah, they'll find minutes for them,

891
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,280
like who are those minutes coming at the expense of.

892
00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:03,199
Speaker 5: So Gary signed an eight million dollar contract and he

893
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:08,719
has a team option, So I believe again, I don't

894
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,760
know what d Silva's minutes are going to look like.

895
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,920
I think if last season is any repertoire of what's

896
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,480
going to happen this season is I would want to

897
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:19,280
say Ostiola, but you also have to understand that he's

898
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:24,320
older than ab and jet So putting Tristan da Silva

899
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:29,199
in Ostiola at twenty three years old, which just I

900
00:43:29,199 --> 00:43:32,039
don't know how that would bold well for the Magic,

901
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,719
But I think what they'll do is they'll play Gary

902
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,159
Harris up until the trade deadline and flip him at

903
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,880
And if they flip him at the deadline, maybe Da

904
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,440
Silva gets phased back in to replace Gary Harris. I

905
00:43:45,559 --> 00:43:47,360
just don't know what that looks like, but I do

906
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,519
believe that Jeed Howard will be in their rotation.

907
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: The good thing about hosting a podcast is I get

908
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,800
to push my own agendas, and one of my biggest

909
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,639
pet peeves with this team for the past couple of

910
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,480
years is I would like them to play faster. They

911
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,639
are very good at really capitalizing off turnovers. You look

912
00:44:02,639 --> 00:44:05,039
at the overall transition frequency. Look at them trying to

913
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:07,800
push off live off live rebounds. I mean he let

914
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,000
alone after makes they I was actually I couldn't even

915
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,840
believe it was this low when I was prepping an

916
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,599
outline for this podcast, that they were twenty ninth in

917
00:44:15,639 --> 00:44:19,159
average offensive possession time, And I think there's it feels

918
00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:21,679
like low hanging fruit to me, even with and I

919
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,079
think the responsibility could fall on a bunch of different people,

920
00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:26,360
Like sometimes Polo feels like he could attack quicker, and

921
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,480
like being semi trends. It doesn't have to be we

922
00:44:28,519 --> 00:44:32,519
get caught up in like pace and like transition frequency

923
00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:35,239
and raw terms. Semi transition stuff is fine with me.

924
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,559
It just feels like when you're gonna go the route

925
00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:40,039
you are, even if you think that Anthony Black can

926
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:42,119
have a bigger role, even if you trust Palo's passing

927
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,440
fronds and general, even if you trust all these guys,

928
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,320
like don't they have.

929
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,679
Speaker 2: The personnel to play faster? Was this like a like

930
00:44:48,679 --> 00:44:49,000
they don't?

931
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:51,639
Speaker 1: It just feels like when you have a deficit in

932
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,960
terms of if you were looking for a proven game manager,

933
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,320
even if you don't want to play that way, like

934
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,440
a way to overcome that while you're trying to figure

935
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,559
out all this other stuff. And you mentioned a lot

936
00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:03,320
of it towards the beginning of the podcast or previously,

937
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,519
of things that they could implement, things that they might implement,

938
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,039
It just feels like that might be one of the

939
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:10,719
forms of low hanging fruit this team should be gobbling

940
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:11,559
up moving forward.

941
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:12,119
Speaker 2: Am I wrong?

942
00:45:13,159 --> 00:45:15,159
Speaker 5: No, You're not wrong, And it doesn't make sense for

943
00:45:15,199 --> 00:45:18,599
a team that young to be that slow, So I understand.

944
00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:22,480
So I understand it from that perspective. But like I said,

945
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,320
given how young a lot of the players are, a

946
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,679
lot of the players also haven't fully digested the entire playbook.

947
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,280
And then we've kind of spoken about how the playbook

948
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,760
flipped from it being run from Natibbots to Jesse Myers

949
00:45:37,199 --> 00:45:39,320
kind of just before the season was about to start,

950
00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:42,239
So there would be a lot of times when timeouts

951
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,639
would happen, or even within transition where Browns is putting

952
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:48,880
up his finger and he wants to run pistol, but

953
00:45:49,039 --> 00:45:53,199
Paulo's attacking downhill. So there's there's always been a lot

954
00:45:53,199 --> 00:45:56,159
of like miscommunication because not everyone seems to be on

955
00:45:56,199 --> 00:46:00,320
the same page, because not everyone understands the playbook to

956
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,239
the same degree. So I think given another year kind

957
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,679
of almost bringing back the same entire team aside from

958
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,320
joining those and Markel Faultz and a veteran edition KCP,

959
00:46:12,159 --> 00:46:15,920
I think another year under some structure, under the same offense,

960
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,000
under the same coordinators will bowld well and we'll flip

961
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,159
that twenty ninth into something more digestible.

962
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,079
Speaker 1: We already talked about the three point volume, And I

963
00:46:26,119 --> 00:46:27,679
do agree with you that you shouldn't just get them

964
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,280
up for the sake of getting them up. But I

965
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,079
think we both expect them to take more threes. But

966
00:46:33,199 --> 00:46:35,280
is there a player that you look at their game

967
00:46:35,519 --> 00:46:37,599
or on this roster and we know kcp's gonna infuse

968
00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:38,880
kind of his own type of volume, But is there

969
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,800
a player you look at that was already on the

970
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,559
roster and say, like, they have the talent, they have

971
00:46:43,639 --> 00:46:46,119
the ability to just get up more threes or do

972
00:46:46,119 --> 00:46:47,840
we kind of focus on the primary guys that like

973
00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:49,719
Jales Sucks might have room to go up a little

974
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,000
bit with the way he was shooting the ball and

975
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,440
the way he's kind of used off and on offense

976
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,440
at points, But like should Pallow or Franz, is that

977
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:57,840
something that part of their gamer like, oh, hey, like

978
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,280
those threes probably need to come up.

979
00:46:59,159 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 3: To Yeah, I mentioned earlier.

980
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,599
Speaker 5: I genuinely believe that everyone's three pointers attempts need to

981
00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:10,079
come up. And I think provided with the correct offensive

982
00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:14,440
structure and assuming that it's not going to just be

983
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:17,679
predominantly in transition, we're going to dump it off to

984
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,679
you on a delay or in transition I'm going to

985
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:22,440
drive in the paint and then kick it out to

986
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:27,920
you in the corner. I think all those components pile

987
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,199
up into one will increase the attempts, to make the

988
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,800
three point attempts more digestible, because what are they are

989
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,960
right now? Twenty seventh in volume, and like I said,

990
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:41,800
with the addition of.

991
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 3: Jet Howard.

992
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 5: KCP, I expect the volume to rise in itself.

993
00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:51,199
Speaker 2: You had a weird season.

994
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,559
Speaker 1: I know it was marked by injuries, but there was

995
00:47:52,559 --> 00:47:54,360
like a point and it was funny that people, I

996
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,280
feel like, latched onto this for too long because it

997
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:57,760
was just sort of like a flicker in the matter

998
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,800
schedule where it was always Wendell Carter, You're expendable because

999
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,159
look at what Gogo Batadze is doing and she's like,

1000
00:48:03,159 --> 00:48:03,480
oh good.

1001
00:48:03,639 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 2: But Toadze eventually became.

1002
00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: An afterthought aside from stay healthy. What does he kind

1003
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,320
of need to do to make sure that he doesn't

1004
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,320
Wendell Carter Junior that is fade in the background because

1005
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,400
there's a lot of games where you watch and it

1006
00:48:14,519 --> 00:48:16,159
just like you don't feel him as much. And was that,

1007
00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:18,519
you know, because you've mentioned sort of the offensive playbook

1008
00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:22,360
turnover was that at all, like a byproduct of was like, Okay,

1009
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,039
he's injured and they're kind of already incorporating all these

1010
00:48:25,079 --> 00:48:27,280
new things, and so other people are uncomfortable, but he

1011
00:48:27,559 --> 00:48:30,559
seemed to have. And Wendell Carter Junior is a podcast favorite,

1012
00:48:30,639 --> 00:48:32,880
so I love wend Olcarter Junior. But he had such

1013
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,119
a disjointed season. What is it that you're monitoring to

1014
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,320
like see that he can It does not even improve

1015
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,519
a public to make sure that that doesn't happen again,

1016
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:42,079
where it's that uneven of a year.

1017
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 5: So yeah, he got stymied out of the playbook completely.

1018
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:49,559
You're you're completely right about that. The Magic they ran

1019
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:51,760
a lot of offensive structure around him in twenty twenty

1020
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,760
two with him operating as a hub. I mean, he's

1021
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,400
their best center, and the role he played modeled that

1022
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:01,480
of the Celtics and Chriss Zingis, the Kings and the

1023
00:49:01,559 --> 00:49:05,000
Monte Sabonis, the Nuggets and Nikola Jokic and to an extent,

1024
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:08,119
Draymond Green of the Warriors. All those teams surround their

1025
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:11,719
big men facilitators with shooters and constant motion and cutting actions,

1026
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,559
and what they did a season ago, not this season

1027
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:22,159
was just let Windell operate as the five and a

1028
00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:25,559
lot of delay action in five out structure, and we

1029
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:27,559
didn't see any of that this season, and I think

1030
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:29,840
we've forgotten how vital it is to have a big

1031
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,920
man who can make those quick decisions and find teammates

1032
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,719
making good cuts if the primary goal is to have

1033
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,519
an offensive game plan that prioritizes off ball movement on

1034
00:49:39,559 --> 00:49:44,079
the wings, which Orlando does. But I think this is

1035
00:49:44,119 --> 00:49:46,800
the biggest thing that that is a result. The biggest

1036
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:52,880
toll his health took was it it stimied into his

1037
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,880
lack of aggressiveness on the boards.

1038
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 3: He wasn't being aggressive on.

1039
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 5: The boards after he came back from his injury. He

1040
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,119
wasn't dunky the ball as frequently as he used as

1041
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,000
as he would use to. I remember watching that they

1042
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,760
played the Hornets and he was wide open with I

1043
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:16,920
think vasa yeap with him under the rim, and he

1044
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,079
went for a layup, like a tip and layup instead

1045
00:50:19,079 --> 00:50:23,039
of just pounding it, pounding a dunk over a much

1046
00:50:23,079 --> 00:50:26,760
smaller Charlotte defender, and it resulted in a miss. And

1047
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,679
there's been so many times this past season after he

1048
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,320
came back from his hand injury where he's just watched

1049
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,760
wide open layout attempts instead of just Jimmy with authority,

1050
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,519
and we're not seeing any of those bone crushing screens

1051
00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:44,239
that he used to provide to give Paolo and Fawn space.

1052
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,000
When he sets screens, those defenders just go through like

1053
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:53,000
there's no screen even being attached in front of them.

1054
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,800
You wouldn't even know that there's a seven footer who's

1055
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:01,159
trying to screen with how often smaller guards were able

1056
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:06,400
to just navigate away from his screens, and these a

1057
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,280
lot of times not really the best defenders either. So

1058
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,599
I think a lot of it just has to do

1059
00:51:11,639 --> 00:51:15,480
with health and then just giving him the opportunity to

1060
00:51:15,519 --> 00:51:19,519
earn back that trust, in allowing him the chance to,

1061
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,360
like I said, with those quick decisions that he was

1062
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,719
in twenty twenty two, and find teammates making good cuts,

1063
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:29,320
assuming that their offensive goal is still to prioritize of

1064
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:31,559
ball movement off the wings.

1065
00:51:32,119 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: I think this is more of an overarching question about

1066
00:51:34,519 --> 00:51:37,239
how they'll approach the big man situation specifically, But they

1067
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,800
have a lot of different players and looks they could

1068
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,159
get to. When you look at Wendell Carter Junior having

1069
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,280
Jonathan Isaac, they have Mo Wagner who also like I

1070
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,159
don't know, like once every third game just does something

1071
00:51:48,199 --> 00:51:50,320
where it seems like Mo Wagner should be a superstar

1072
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,360
and not Mo Wagner. They have Gogo Patats on this

1073
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:58,039
roster of course, Like what is the hierarchy in terms

1074
00:51:58,039 --> 00:52:00,719
of importance with this big man structure? A way to like,

1075
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,280
you know, with Wendell Cutter Junior specifically, let's say, like

1076
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,559
does it maybe make more sense to like should you

1077
00:52:05,559 --> 00:52:08,400
be staggering him more from Polo and so like you

1078
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,000
play him so like you can run more of the

1079
00:52:10,039 --> 00:52:11,840
offense through him and maybe that's where he's gonna be

1080
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,599
more at home. And you could take an additional I

1081
00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:15,559
know they went to it at some points last year,

1082
00:52:15,559 --> 00:52:16,679
but like you could take a look at Isaac and

1083
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,440
Wendell Carter Junior and in your front front court it

1084
00:52:19,519 --> 00:52:21,760
is there a look as like a primary lineup that

1085
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,480
you prefer, Like do you view Wendell Cuarter juniors like, well,

1086
00:52:24,519 --> 00:52:26,159
this is like the guy that they need to have

1087
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,719
for their core lineups or you more intrigued by let's

1088
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,800
say having Jonathan Isaac in the front court with with

1089
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,199
Palo Bankerrobu. I find this, and maybe I'm overrating it,

1090
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,159
but I find this to be like a fascinating subplot

1091
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,039
of just like it's not going to necessarily define their future,

1092
00:52:40,039 --> 00:52:42,920
but they have a lot of different options that they

1093
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:44,880
could go to when you're looking at how they structure

1094
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,840
the big man rotation, how they structure the four or

1095
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,800
five in general, and I'm just wondering who you kind

1096
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,360
of view is like or most likely to become like

1097
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,719
the center mainstay. And then, of course, hovering over all this,

1098
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,400
we mentioned Wendell Cutter Junior's health. It's how healthy and

1099
00:52:58,599 --> 00:53:00,559
will Jonathan Isaac be and how many games will he play?

1100
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:03,000
How many minutes can he be shoulder? So maybe I'm

1101
00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:05,440
like the only idiot that finds that sort of interesting,

1102
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,519
but this feels like an intriguing subplot of this magic team.

1103
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 5: So yeah, now the center mainstay is going to be

1104
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,000
Wendell Carr Jr. Regarded that he is able to stay healthy.

1105
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:21,079
But the only time I so, they've been times where

1106
00:53:21,119 --> 00:53:23,840
they have played Johnathan Isaac at the five, and they

1107
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,920
experimented that in the Milwaukee Bucks game to close the season,

1108
00:53:27,079 --> 00:53:31,239
which went really really well for them, And then jamal

1109
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,840
Moley kind of used that in the play in the

1110
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,199
playoffs before he eventually had gone back to Wendell Carr

1111
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,159
Junior just because the Cleveland Cavaliers were just playing off

1112
00:53:40,199 --> 00:53:42,719
of Jonathan Isaac in the corner. And now you're kind

1113
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:48,000
of playing four on five with Isaac just not being

1114
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,360
as big of an offensive weapon as Wendell Carter junr is.

1115
00:53:53,079 --> 00:53:56,719
So I think the hierarchy of the centers kind of

1116
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,199
stays the same with Wendell Carr Junior being your mainstay,

1117
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:04,559
and then you can put j I in at the five.

1118
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,719
I would put j j I in at the five

1119
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,840
and crunch time if you're down by five, I mean,

1120
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,280
if you're up by five and UNI defense, I think

1121
00:54:13,639 --> 00:54:16,199
you can have a lineup of the same four with

1122
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,360
Ji swapping out Dell at the five, and then in

1123
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,039
the result that you're up by five in crunch time,

1124
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:26,280
the starters just remain the same. But then I think

1125
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,119
it's like I said, Wendell and then Mo and then

1126
00:54:30,199 --> 00:54:33,800
Go Go, and then Jonathan Isaac subbing in at the

1127
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:37,280
five in those crunch time closing minutes when they want

1128
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,880
to go to their quote unquote death lineup.

1129
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's the I mean that that makes

1130
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:43,800
a ton of sense.

1131
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,559
Speaker 1: Who do you view though, as just looking at next

1132
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:48,760
season specifically as sort of more important to this team?

1133
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,880
Who is gonna have more of an influence over how

1134
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,239
they're faring? Is it's someone like a Cole Anthony, who

1135
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,679
ever really talked about yet we've met you mentioned tangentially

1136
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,599
like well, the shot making and creation ability is important?

1137
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,599
Or Jonathan I they played two very different positions, but

1138
00:55:01,639 --> 00:55:03,440
his guys who are most likely coming off the bench,

1139
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:05,440
like who of you was kind of more mission critical

1140
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:06,880
to this team's success right now.

1141
00:55:07,679 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 5: I think given the addition of k TVs. Cola Pope

1142
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:17,519
and the offensive web what he brings offensively, I would

1143
00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:20,559
say Jonathan Isaac is more of a weapon for Orlando.

1144
00:55:23,039 --> 00:55:26,960
Then Cole Anthony isn't funny enough to bring up Cole Anthony.

1145
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,480
He fits Orlando like a sore thumb. I mean, this

1146
00:55:29,559 --> 00:55:34,360
team is employed by people listed at six ' five

1147
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,920
and over and multiple players who can be involved in

1148
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,360
pick and rolls, switching to blitz boxing in one and

1149
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:47,840
all kinds of defenses that defensive coordinators salivate for. And

1150
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:49,800
then you have Cole Anthony who's listed at six to

1151
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,920
three and was having was getting played off the floor

1152
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:59,199
against the Cleveland Cavaliers because JB. Bickerstaff kept targeting him

1153
00:55:59,199 --> 00:56:01,639
in picking rolls, both he and Joe ingles.

1154
00:56:03,039 --> 00:56:04,599
Speaker 1: Uh. I mean if that is true, though, then so

1155
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,360
not the If it's true that Jayi is more important,

1156
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,320
it feels like this, you know, I kind of wondered

1157
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:10,599
if and they could certainly do is to I.

1158
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:12,159
Speaker 2: Mean, nig a dude on offense and defense.

1159
00:56:12,159 --> 00:56:15,079
Speaker 1: But like in my head, I'm like anti Black can

1160
00:56:15,079 --> 00:56:16,880
be viewed as kind of like the secondary wing and

1161
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,000
now kind of like your view of col Anthony and

1162
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:20,880
even kind of the offense at larger if he's like, well,

1163
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,639
like no, col Anthony might just be like a lot

1164
00:56:22,639 --> 00:56:25,159
more important than I thought he was going to be

1165
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,360
this upcoming season to what they're trying to do. So

1166
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,119
what is a strength of this team that we have

1167
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:33,239
not talked about yet that maybe you think flies under

1168
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:33,639
the radar?

1169
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 5: Ooh. I wouldn't say that's it's not being talked about enough.

1170
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,079
But I haven't heard Jamal Moseley's name mentioned within the

1171
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:45,800
addition of Contavious Colo Pope. And the reason I say

1172
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,519
that is the league essentially allowed one of the best

1173
00:56:49,559 --> 00:56:53,320
defensive minds in the league to now add another infinity

1174
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,679
stone to his death lineup as he continues to stash

1175
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,000
the best defensive players in the league with Jill and Suggs,

1176
00:57:00,199 --> 00:57:03,039
CACP and Jonathan Isaac, who I think a lot of

1177
00:57:03,079 --> 00:57:07,800
people believe is another all defensive name, given he can

1178
00:57:08,119 --> 00:57:11,639
remain healthy for the sixty five game requirement, and thinking

1179
00:57:11,639 --> 00:57:15,559
out loud about all the defenses that Orlando can run

1180
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,360
to mess up opposing offenses game plans with the personnel

1181
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:20,440
is just so fun.

1182
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: What do you view as the so moving on to

1183
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,599
like the weaknesses portion of this, what do you or

1184
00:57:28,599 --> 00:57:30,880
the bigger need? It'd be nice if they could get

1185
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,559
this wrapped into one player. But is it kind of

1186
00:57:32,719 --> 00:57:36,039
just like that prime not even primary, but like that

1187
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:38,880
for general element or is it like the someone who

1188
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,639
can make shots not just from the outside, but like

1189
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,320
create those shots for themselves as well.

1190
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:46,119
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1191
00:57:46,599 --> 00:57:50,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, I want their biggest need and their biggest weakness

1192
00:57:50,599 --> 00:57:54,559
last season was when a play breaks down, whether that

1193
00:57:54,679 --> 00:57:58,559
be Paleo Franz or whether that's a play being run

1194
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:04,559
in the timeouts and one of the players is completely

1195
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:07,199
messing up that play. How can I make something of

1196
00:58:07,239 --> 00:58:10,599
that play? Because, like I said, they they just never

1197
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:15,199
had a secondary ball handler, someone who can create their

1198
00:58:15,199 --> 00:58:18,719
shot off the dribble, and we don't know if Jet

1199
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:19,840
Howard can be that guy.

1200
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 3: I believe KCP can be that guy.

1201
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,239
Speaker 5: Cole Anthony has done it to a degree. Jon Suggs

1202
00:58:26,239 --> 00:58:29,159
has done it. But I think you need to have

1203
00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:32,519
someone in that kind of third sense after Polo and

1204
00:58:32,599 --> 00:58:36,599
Franz if and when the primary action doesn't work, to

1205
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,639
leave you with something so you're not left with the

1206
00:58:38,679 --> 00:58:42,239
Pollo or a Franz isolation with the shot clock winding down,

1207
00:58:42,559 --> 00:58:45,119
which was another direct result, like I said earlier, of

1208
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:49,679
Polos efficiency, because when a play breaks down, everyone's just

1209
00:58:49,679 --> 00:58:51,239
giving it to Pollow and saying, hey, can you just

1210
00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:54,840
bail us out real quick? So I think that's what

1211
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:59,480
they need and that's what ab Jet and KCP will provide.

1212
00:58:59,519 --> 00:59:02,599
And I think aside from that, just having a lot

1213
00:59:02,639 --> 00:59:05,360
of connective passers and having more guys on the floor

1214
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,480
who just understand where to be and when to be

1215
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:12,039
when a play breaks down is just so vital to

1216
00:59:12,079 --> 00:59:13,440
this team's offensive success.

1217
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,639
Speaker 1: Do you think that this team, let's say that the

1218
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,960
solve isn't on the roster it's not happening by midyear.

1219
00:59:21,239 --> 00:59:24,400
Do you think that they are operating on a timeline

1220
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:26,639
that would I don't want to use the word mandate,

1221
00:59:26,679 --> 00:59:30,519
but suggest that they'll be aggressive to pursue said upgrade

1222
00:59:30,599 --> 00:59:33,719
or upgrades or whatever like at the deadline, because like

1223
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,480
we met I mentioned at the top of this podcast,

1224
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:37,840
they're I guess not a rare team. There's been other

1225
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,239
teams in this situation, but like their core is young,

1226
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,679
but like they are up against the mediate expectations because

1227
00:59:43,679 --> 00:59:46,199
of how many games and how well they played last

1228
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,079
year and because you know, I think a lot of

1229
00:59:48,119 --> 00:59:51,159
people with Oklahoma City when they were pushing for them

1230
00:59:51,159 --> 00:59:52,440
to make moves that was well, we need to see

1231
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,400
like what their weaknesses are once they get to the playoffs,

1232
00:59:55,599 --> 00:59:57,679
and it's like, okay, Oklahoma City saw that and then

1233
00:59:57,719 --> 01:00:00,800
addressed it. Orlando maybe got they're a little bit quicker,

1234
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,840
like it was Paalo second season, but it was they

1235
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:06,239
kind of struggled against the Calves the exact ways that

1236
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,320
we expected them to struggle in that setting. And so

1237
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,559
it feels like they have that information and if the

1238
01:00:12,639 --> 01:00:14,000
roster doesn't resolve it.

1239
01:00:14,039 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 2: In the addition of case he doesn't help it enough.

1240
01:00:16,719 --> 01:00:19,159
Speaker 1: Would you think that that's something they would seriously look

1241
01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:21,440
And I'm not talking about like waiting for the buyout

1242
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,079
market or making some sort of just throwaway trade. But

1243
01:00:24,119 --> 01:00:26,559
do you think that this organization has a high enough

1244
01:00:26,679 --> 01:00:31,639
view of itself internally in the in the immediate to

1245
01:00:32,159 --> 01:00:36,280
be looking for a consequential upgrade if it needs it,

1246
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,239
or is that no, They're gonna let this play out again.

1247
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,119
They're more likely to make any seismic or bigger time

1248
01:00:42,199 --> 01:00:44,400
changes over the offseason of twenty twenty five.

1249
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,079
Speaker 5: So I do believe that they will be aggressive given

1250
01:00:50,239 --> 01:00:53,360
given the player presents itself. So, like I said, the

1251
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,119
team has gotten where they are through several years of

1252
01:00:56,119 --> 01:01:00,400
calculated decisions, albeit small or large, that have given Orlando

1253
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,440
of the optionality that the team has had recently. So,

1254
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:05,880
like I said, like you said, there was no more

1255
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,079
enjoyable stage in a team's live cycle than where the

1256
01:01:09,119 --> 01:01:12,840
Magic were this past season. But this front office has

1257
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:18,199
continued to approach things very cautiously. However, I do believe

1258
01:01:18,239 --> 01:01:21,519
they pulled the trigger when the right time presents itself.

1259
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,920
I just don't believe laying out all the chips for

1260
01:01:25,159 --> 01:01:30,800
an aging Paul George Tias Jones, Klay Thompson can be

1261
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:35,159
characterized as a quote unquote lack of aggressiveness. And I'm

1262
01:01:35,159 --> 01:01:37,639
not saying that that's what you said, but given that

1263
01:01:37,719 --> 01:01:40,679
they have Gary and Moe on those team options, I

1264
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,119
wouldn't be shocked to see those two get dumped at

1265
01:01:44,119 --> 01:01:46,039
the trade deadline to land a.

1266
01:01:46,039 --> 01:01:48,159
Speaker 3: Bigger fish, to help land them a bigger fish.

1267
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,119
Speaker 5: But I think just that player, whoever that player is,

1268
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,639
just needs to prevent them present themselves.

1269
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,159
Speaker 3: And like I said, it takes.

1270
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 5: Two to tango in trades now, so now player's got

1271
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,880
to present themselves. He's got to want to go to Orlando,

1272
01:02:04,159 --> 01:02:06,760
and Orlando's got to be willing to fish out the

1273
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,440
pieces to acquire that player.

1274
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,639
Speaker 1: I think they need to be even more open minded

1275
01:02:11,639 --> 01:02:14,119
than that, because if the players under contract for multiple years,

1276
01:02:14,159 --> 01:02:15,599
I don't care if they want to be in Orlando

1277
01:02:15,679 --> 01:02:17,320
or not. Like you come there and you sway them

1278
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,119
by winning basketball games. We've seen it done before. And

1279
01:02:20,159 --> 01:02:22,519
I think the other thing with them, and this is

1280
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,519
it's a magic. Fans have given me pushback for how

1281
01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:27,719
hard I've been on the fact that they weren't more

1282
01:02:27,719 --> 01:02:30,280
aggressive in doing something like that. Yet the reason that

1283
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,360
I'm so forward is one I think that they're good

1284
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:33,719
enough to where even if you want to look at

1285
01:02:33,719 --> 01:02:35,360
the lay of the land and say, I don't know

1286
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:36,760
if we want to go all in yet, like we're

1287
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:38,639
kind of waiting for these other contenders to fall off

1288
01:02:38,679 --> 01:02:41,440
a little bit. The thing that really starts out is

1289
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,800
like they don't need one specific player to wear. It's like,

1290
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:46,679
just like if it was a team where it's like

1291
01:02:46,719 --> 01:02:48,960
you need LaMelo ball for to make the difference that

1292
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:50,639
you needed to make. And it's no like if they

1293
01:02:50,679 --> 01:02:53,199
got a Malcolm Brogden, it could be an Afrey Simon's,

1294
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,480
it could be a Colin Sexton, it could have been

1295
01:02:55,719 --> 01:02:58,159
a Tias Jones in free agency, although he wouldn't have

1296
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,199
I don't think fit with sort of their on a

1297
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,920
flexibility motif. Maybe they're waiting on an opportunity that we

1298
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,159
just haven't discussed yet where it's like, oh, does bog

1299
01:03:06,199 --> 01:03:08,760
Don Bogdanovic become available, or does it you know, Darius

1300
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,039
Garland or Kobe White, even Kobe White be great for

1301
01:03:11,079 --> 01:03:14,840
this team. They can go so many different levels of player,

1302
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,400
like you don't even need to get into the specific

1303
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,519
names to be like it doesn't. It could be if

1304
01:03:18,559 --> 01:03:20,400
it's a star that fits okay, great sure, or someone

1305
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,039
who has that ceiling, but it could also just be

1306
01:03:22,199 --> 01:03:25,000
like maybe like on another team, like maybe this guy

1307
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,159
wants up being our six or seventh most important player,

1308
01:03:27,199 --> 01:03:30,119
but like getting someone who does that stuff that you're

1309
01:03:30,119 --> 01:03:32,920
outlaying it makes such a huge difference for this team

1310
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,360
because they're so good in all these other respects.

1311
01:03:37,519 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I no, I agree with that. But the pushback.

1312
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 5: Of why I believe they won't go out and get

1313
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:47,880
a player is because the front office has come out

1314
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,079
and said multiple times that they don't want specialists, and

1315
01:03:50,159 --> 01:03:52,559
a lot of the players that you listed are specially

1316
01:03:52,639 --> 01:03:56,960
like Bote Bogdan. Bogdanovic is a specialist. He specializes in

1317
01:03:57,039 --> 01:03:59,960
three point shooting, and understandably it is a need for

1318
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:00,920
the Orlando Magic.

1319
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 1: I mean, that's underselling both Don Bardanovic quite a bit,

1320
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:07,719
and like if you consider bogd on Bardona, I'm saying

1321
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,119
about the Magic, not you. They consider Boke Doun Bardanovic

1322
01:04:10,159 --> 01:04:10,800
a specialist.

1323
01:04:12,159 --> 01:04:13,599
Speaker 2: I don't believe.

1324
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,719
Speaker 5: That in the regards of the defensive caliber that they

1325
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,840
have on their team. I mean, Cole Anthony's a microwave

1326
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,679
scorer and he can't defend. No, I'm not saying Cole

1327
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,440
is better than Bogdanovitch or Bogdanovics is better than Cole,

1328
01:04:24,519 --> 01:04:27,360
But a lot of the times, even when Cole had

1329
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,599
it going very rarely did we see.

1330
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 4: Him close games.

1331
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 3: I mean he would have.

1332
01:04:32,199 --> 01:04:38,039
Speaker 5: There were games where I thought that he he should

1333
01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:40,000
have been gifted the opportunity to close the game, and

1334
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,239
he just wasn't, just because he would get eviscerated and

1335
01:04:43,239 --> 01:04:45,360
pick and rolls and saw that in the playoffs on

1336
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,400
them in the regular season. So I think Jamal Moseley's

1337
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,639
biggest fear is to acquire a player who doesn't fit

1338
01:04:52,719 --> 01:04:56,760
his defensive identity. So I think a lot of the

1339
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,280
pushback of why they're not going out and getting a

1340
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,599
and Thenfernie Simons is due to that regard.

1341
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,679
Speaker 2: I just you're built to insulate one player like that.

1342
01:05:08,719 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 3: I agree with you.

1343
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,039
Speaker 5: I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. I'm saying, at

1344
01:05:12,079 --> 01:05:14,159
some point in your life cycle, you have to give

1345
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:18,280
up some defense to acquire offense to help your.

1346
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 4: Offense.

1347
01:05:20,599 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 3: But we just don't.

1348
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,559
Speaker 5: I've never found I haven't seen the willingness to do so,

1349
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:30,000
and like I said, if they play Jet Howard, if

1350
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,840
they played Tristan de Silva, if they play KCP, it'll

1351
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,840
be a step in the right direction. But I think

1352
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,000
they believe they hit the jackpop by landing KCP, who's

1353
01:05:40,039 --> 01:05:42,320
a three and D guy. Like I said at the

1354
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,360
top of the podcast, he fits their prototypical three and

1355
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:49,039
D guy kind of wing. But they just don't seem

1356
01:05:49,079 --> 01:05:51,679
to be in a position where they're willing to give

1357
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:56,320
up defense for offense. And that's a big reason why

1358
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:59,760
we saw Jet Howard in Ostola his entire rookie season,

1359
01:06:00,239 --> 01:06:03,159
and it's come to a point where every single time

1360
01:06:03,159 --> 01:06:05,719
that he speaks to the media, he never talks about

1361
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,280
offense anymore. He only talks about defense.

1362
01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:11,119
Speaker 2: So smart, that's good gamesmanship by him.

1363
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good games have been shipped by him.

1364
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:17,679
Speaker 5: But Jamal Mosy's entire identity has become defensive oriented. So

1365
01:06:17,719 --> 01:06:19,920
if you're not willing to play defense, if you don't

1366
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:23,239
want to play defense, if you cannot play defense, you will.

1367
01:06:23,039 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 4: Not be in Orlando.

1368
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:28,159
Speaker 5: And there's just been no evidence given to me where

1369
01:06:28,199 --> 01:06:30,519
I can sit here and tell you otherwise, which is

1370
01:06:30,599 --> 01:06:33,760
why I'm saying that I just don't believe that that's

1371
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:35,639
going to happen under Jamal Moseley.

1372
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 2: Are you ready to answer the cookie cutter portion of

1373
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:39,519
this podcast?

1374
01:06:40,239 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 4: I'm ready.

1375
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:45,039
Speaker 1: What does this team's top ten rotation look like at

1376
01:06:45,079 --> 01:06:45,679
full strength?

1377
01:06:45,679 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 5: For you? So I think we can pencil in the

1378
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:50,960
starting line of being Jalen Sug's at the point guard

1379
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:55,800
KCP being at the two Browns at the three, Hollow

1380
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,960
at the four, when a healthy Wendell at the five,

1381
01:07:00,719 --> 01:07:04,280
and then I think your bench is consumed of Jonathan Isaac,

1382
01:07:05,719 --> 01:07:10,880
Anthony Block, Cole, Anthony, Jet.

1383
01:07:10,639 --> 01:07:13,559
Speaker 4: Howard, Ooh, and Mo Voger.

1384
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:19,039
Speaker 1: I like that you think that or that Jet Howard

1385
01:07:19,079 --> 01:07:20,400
is going to get like a real opportunity.

1386
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 2: I think that's a smart move by them because.

1387
01:07:22,239 --> 01:07:24,119
Speaker 1: I would have had like because it will be coming

1388
01:07:24,119 --> 01:07:26,039
at the like the expense of some vets minutes. But

1389
01:07:26,039 --> 01:07:27,480
I think you're at the point where it's right you

1390
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,400
made the moves that you made. If you want to

1391
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,480
see if you have somebody who's going to address what

1392
01:07:31,559 --> 01:07:35,599
you need internally, and I guess if he's focusing on defense,

1393
01:07:35,639 --> 01:07:37,559
and you don't want to compromise that anyway, like you

1394
01:07:37,639 --> 01:07:40,360
have to roll the dice and give him real reps,

1395
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:42,920
and it's better to find out like sooner rather than later.

1396
01:07:43,039 --> 01:07:45,280
So I actually hope you're right. I would have had

1397
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,440
Gary Harris penciled into that spot just because of the

1398
01:07:47,519 --> 01:07:50,800
veteran sort of like going the diplomatic root of it all.

1399
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:52,920
But I the approach you're taking is the one that

1400
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:54,119
I would one hundred percent agree with.

1401
01:07:54,519 --> 01:07:58,239
Speaker 5: The reason I said Jet over Gary Harris is a

1402
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:00,559
couple of reasons, number one being I think people don't

1403
01:08:00,599 --> 01:08:03,559
understand that after this season, Jet only has one more

1404
01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:07,519
season until he's due for his rookie contract extension. And

1405
01:08:08,119 --> 01:08:12,440
if I'm Jet Howard's agent and he doesn't get any

1406
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,280
minutes this season, that's gonna be a real problem to me,

1407
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,159
because there's just no way an Asian is just going

1408
01:08:18,239 --> 01:08:21,720
to sit there and just allow a lottery pick to

1409
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:25,920
not play two seasons going into his rookie contract extension

1410
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,720
that third season. And then we're also coming off of

1411
01:08:30,119 --> 01:08:35,560
Gary Harris shooting seven for twenty two in the playoffs,

1412
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:39,600
and like I mentioned, of those plays, Jamal Moley never

1413
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:42,319
drew up a single play for Gary Harris. He didn't

1414
01:08:42,359 --> 01:08:44,000
come like I said, he didn't come off of beer.

1415
01:08:45,159 --> 01:08:49,359
Just know all his attempts were as a result of kickoffs, kickouts,

1416
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:53,479
and the defense that he provided was really the only

1417
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:55,479
reason that he was kept in the lineup on top

1418
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:58,079
of his veteran presence in the playoffs. So I think

1419
01:08:58,119 --> 01:09:01,560
if we're going to start this season, Brush, I do

1420
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:05,079
believe that I'd phased if they phase out Gary Harris's

1421
01:09:06,279 --> 01:09:09,640
minutes to give Jet Howard an opportunity and if that

1422
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:14,439
defense isn't all that, and if that defensive Jet Howard

1423
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:18,199
isn't willing to play defense, if he's getting targeted and

1424
01:09:18,199 --> 01:09:20,960
pick and rolls. I do believe that Gary Harris finds

1425
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:23,720
his way back into the rotation. But to start off

1426
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,359
the season, I'd like to see Jet Howard be given

1427
01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:32,079
that rotational minutes and have him give him, give him

1428
01:09:32,079 --> 01:09:35,760
every opportunity to succeed until he's given you nowhere to

1429
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:38,119
go but back to Gary Harris. I just don't believe

1430
01:09:38,119 --> 01:09:41,239
you can go to Gary Harris and then go back

1431
01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:43,439
go to Jet Howard and then go back to Gary Harris.

1432
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:47,000
I'd rather be seamless. You start, you start with Jet Howard,

1433
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,319
and then you go back to Gary Harris. And then

1434
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,680
if Jet Howard wants to say anything. If his agent

1435
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:53,960
wants to say anything, you say, hey, we started the

1436
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,319
season with Jah Howard. We gave him the chance to

1437
01:09:56,399 --> 01:09:58,640
have rotational minutes. We gave him a whole season in

1438
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,039
Osceola to develop his defense.

1439
01:10:01,319 --> 01:10:02,159
Speaker 3: He played summerly.

1440
01:10:02,279 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 5: We liked what he saw. He came back in he

1441
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,359
earned the right to be given those rotational minutes, and

1442
01:10:07,399 --> 01:10:10,960
he was just getting targeted and picking rolls defensively. Despite

1443
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,000
what he offers us offensively, we just can't continue to

1444
01:10:14,039 --> 01:10:16,239
move forward with him, so we wanted to go back

1445
01:10:16,279 --> 01:10:17,199
to Gary Irris.

1446
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: Well, it's also for that, you know, you mentioned the

1447
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,000
jet Howard like in the age and stuff. It's also

1448
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:23,079
for the magics benefit, just to know, like we have

1449
01:10:23,199 --> 01:10:25,439
this information, this works, it doesn't work, and let's make

1450
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,920
the decision from there. What is your It's obviously to

1451
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:31,800
some extent matchup dependent, but what should be the go

1452
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,600
to We're the most used crunch time unit for this team.

1453
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 3: Oh.

1454
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:40,600
Speaker 5: I think their most used closing lineup last season was

1455
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:42,600
the same starting lineup with Dell at the five and

1456
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:45,199
Suggs and Harris at the one and two, with Pollow

1457
01:10:45,239 --> 01:10:47,800
and Funds at the three and four. I certainly don't

1458
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,920
expect that to be the case this season, but I

1459
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:52,359
think it's situational.

1460
01:10:53,239 --> 01:10:54,359
Speaker 3: Are you in crunch.

1461
01:10:54,079 --> 01:10:56,159
Speaker 5: Time and you're up by five or down by five?

1462
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:00,239
Like I said, if up by five, I didn't dude

1463
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,239
j I in at the five and slap out Dell

1464
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:06,520
and being down by five and I need more offense,

1465
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,520
I would just result back to the starting lineup with

1466
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:14,840
Jalen Suggs, KCP, Polo Franz and Dell just due to

1467
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:18,000
the sole purpose that Dell provides more offensively than Johnson

1468
01:11:18,039 --> 01:11:18,640
Isaac does.

1469
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,119
Speaker 1: Do you think if you're looking for this team to

1470
01:11:23,119 --> 01:11:24,760
play a little bit faster though, do you think Isaac

1471
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,159
would fit that motif better than like looking at the

1472
01:11:27,159 --> 01:11:29,239
offensive and I know when Dells a more dynamic player,

1473
01:11:29,279 --> 01:11:31,680
but if you're trying to, you know, erase a deficit

1474
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:34,920
in a small amount of time, does he prohibit you

1475
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,640
from playing maybe as fast as you want that team

1476
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:38,800
to play in those situations.

1477
01:11:39,319 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 3: No, when when Dell isn't slow, he doesn't know.

1478
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:45,920
Speaker 1: I don't like he's a plotter, but like j I

1479
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,119
still has sort of that different, like that different element

1480
01:11:49,199 --> 01:11:49,479
to it.

1481
01:11:50,039 --> 01:11:51,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, he definitely.

1482
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 5: Does have a different element element to it. I won't

1483
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,800
I won't. I won't counter counter you on that. I

1484
01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:00,399
just think that given what we saw of how we

1485
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:02,359
looked at the five against Cleve, like I said, I

1486
01:12:02,399 --> 01:12:04,319
think it's matchup dependent as well. Like if you're playing

1487
01:12:04,319 --> 01:12:07,760
a Cleveland team and you're down by five, or like

1488
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:09,720
I said, you're up by five, I wouldn't want Jonathan

1489
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:13,399
Isaac playing against Evan Mobley and Dared Allen. I would

1490
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,359
rather just have Wendell and then I would have Ji

1491
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,439
to counteract that twin tower alignment that they have in Cleveland,

1492
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:24,279
and then have it be with Sugs KCP or SUGS

1493
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:27,920
Frands at shooting guard and Pallow and then Ji at

1494
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:31,079
the four and Wendell at the five. But in a

1495
01:12:31,159 --> 01:12:35,159
normal circumstance where a team like you're not playing Cleveland

1496
01:12:35,159 --> 01:12:38,760
where they have two bigs, I would have Ji at

1497
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:40,640
the five and swap.

1498
01:12:40,399 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 4: Them out with Dell.

1499
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: What's a weird or funky or just off beat lineup

1500
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,199
you would like to see this team try?

1501
01:12:50,199 --> 01:12:52,640
Speaker 5: Normally, I would come in here and say give me

1502
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:56,199
all the defense, like gim me Jones, suggs KCP, Franz,

1503
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,359
Johnathan Isaac and then Wendell and like we can just

1504
01:12:59,399 --> 01:13:02,239
bench Powoll because j I and Wendell are better defenders

1505
01:13:02,279 --> 01:13:06,199
than him. But given Orlando's offensive structure, give me all

1506
01:13:06,319 --> 01:13:11,800
shooters in this case. If we can't, let's go let's

1507
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:16,840
go Jet Howard at point guard. At shooting guard. We

1508
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:20,560
can go Gary Harris, a small ford, we can go

1509
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,560
ca CP, a power forward, we can go Tristan da Silva,

1510
01:13:25,239 --> 01:13:26,920
and then at center we can go Windell.

1511
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:30,119
Speaker 3: I want to get real.

1512
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:33,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of youth in there too,

1513
01:13:33,279 --> 01:13:36,760
because you have Jet Howard and Tristan de Silva in there.

1514
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:38,520
Speaker 2: I'd love to see it.

1515
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 1: I would lean towards five out as well, but I

1516
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:43,279
would like take a different element to it, like give

1517
01:13:43,319 --> 01:13:46,319
me Paalo at the five, surround him with I'm gonna

1518
01:13:46,319 --> 01:13:48,760
trust Sugs is shooting, so I'm gonna play him with

1519
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:52,359
KCP and Jet Howard. So we're opening up the magic

1520
01:13:52,399 --> 01:13:53,319
defensively there.

1521
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 3: So what we're doing.

1522
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:57,319
Speaker 5: Is we're doing Foba foba polo where Steve Kerr was

1523
01:13:57,359 --> 01:13:58,439
having him play at the five.

1524
01:13:59,079 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, a palo, But I think that I mean with

1525
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:04,600
Sugs on the court in KCP, like I think the

1526
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:05,840
defense probably ends up being better.

1527
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:07,279
Speaker 2: I guess you could quite and I don't know.

1528
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: Palette five is not something I ever think needs to

1529
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:11,520
become a crutch, But I think that dude could pretty

1530
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:13,439
much do anything. I have such a high opinion of him.

1531
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:15,600
I don't know how i'd finished the lineup that just

1532
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:16,479
put the Silva in there.

1533
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:18,520
Speaker 2: I'm putting two youngsters in here, so it'll never happen,

1534
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:23,199
but throw him in there. But you're not small, so it's.

1535
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:27,520
Speaker 1: Like you palette the five KCP and Suggs, go with

1536
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,760
the Silva, and then throw Jet Howard in there. So

1537
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:32,520
it's like that's your quote unquote small ball lineup, but

1538
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:35,039
you're not really that small, so it's the.

1539
01:14:35,039 --> 01:14:37,640
Speaker 5: Same lineup as mine. But you took out Polo. Well

1540
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,720
we're putting in Polo, except for it's instead of Windell.

1541
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1542
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:44,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you can probably talk me into like Caleb

1543
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:46,479
Houston instead of the Silva, or maybe.

1544
01:14:47,279 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 3: I forgot about Caleb Houston.

1545
01:14:50,359 --> 01:14:52,199
Speaker 1: I mean, like, if I really cared about that, I

1546
01:14:52,239 --> 01:14:55,039
just don't know if I trust Cole Anthony enough. Gary

1547
01:14:55,079 --> 01:14:56,760
Harris has been all over the place the past few years.

1548
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:58,600
It looked like he was having a renaissance in Orlando

1549
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:02,039
and that as you mentioned, the playoffs happened. Yeah, the

1550
01:15:02,039 --> 01:15:04,279
fifth one is oddly tough. I mean it should let's

1551
01:15:04,319 --> 01:15:06,239
be honest, it should be Franz and so like, if

1552
01:15:06,279 --> 01:15:08,600
you trust in Franz is a jumper there, it's okay,

1553
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:10,079
make him the fifth. We'll give me Pala with the

1554
01:15:10,079 --> 01:15:14,159
five with Franz, Jet Howard, KCP and Jael and Suggs.

1555
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:18,760
But I like, I you know, I'm thirsty to see

1556
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:20,880
like better floor balance from this team, and so that

1557
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,079
lineup definitely gives you it.

1558
01:15:23,319 --> 01:15:24,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just don't see it.

1559
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 5: I don't see anywhere well either of these lineups will

1560
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:28,560
ever be portrayed.

1561
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 2: At the same time, it's all point of this exercise.

1562
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:31,199
We're allowed to have fun.

1563
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,520
Speaker 1: I'll harp on it too much. So as we're recording this,

1564
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,760
they're over under is set at forty seven and a half.

1565
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:40,039
Are you taking the over the under on that? And

1566
01:15:40,119 --> 01:15:42,119
how many wins do you ultimately see them getting? Where

1567
01:15:42,119 --> 01:15:43,880
do you see them landing in the Eastern Conference that

1568
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:44,880
whole spiel.

1569
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:49,680
Speaker 4: You said forty seven and a half, as they're over.

1570
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:57,279
Speaker 1: Under correct as of August nineteenth.

1571
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:56,239
Speaker 3: I'll take the over.

1572
01:15:57,279 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 5: I'll take the over I'll put them at exactly fifty

1573
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:06,159
one wins. I think that's uh, that's a.

1574
01:16:05,359 --> 01:16:06,560
Speaker 3: Three game improvement from.

1575
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:09,239
Speaker 2: Last season, I believe, Yeah, three win improvement.

1576
01:16:09,319 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 1: Which we talked about this with this team, not me

1577
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:14,520
and you, Grant and I talked about it when we

1578
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,920
were doing like sort of better or worse exercise.

1579
01:16:17,199 --> 01:16:18,239
Speaker 2: They're like the quintessential.

1580
01:16:18,239 --> 01:16:20,079
Speaker 1: We have to remember progress isn't linear, so that I

1581
01:16:20,079 --> 01:16:21,880
think we both picked them to win more games anyway,

1582
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:24,880
but like they could win forty six and just still

1583
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,039
be better equipped to win in the playoffs. But their

1584
01:16:28,079 --> 01:16:30,960
over unders like fascinating because I think, look, if Cleveland's healthier,

1585
01:16:31,239 --> 01:16:33,680
if Indiana doesn't deal with a Tyree's injury of the Knicks,

1586
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:36,760
you have presumably a better slash healthier version of the Sixers.

1587
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:40,439
The Celtics are gonna be right there. I don't trust

1588
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,039
the Heat still, So it's just they're they're like in

1589
01:16:43,079 --> 01:16:44,920
that gaggle of just like there are six teams I

1590
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:47,239
feel like in the East where you could see any outcome,

1591
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,720
or I guess five because Boston just feels like pennsil

1592
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,039
limit for the top. But there's those five teams that

1593
01:16:52,079 --> 01:16:53,800
you could talk me into any order in this, Like

1594
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:55,439
if you told me the Magic had the two seed,

1595
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:58,000
I'd be like, Okay, Like I'm not gonna flinch at that.

1596
01:16:58,039 --> 01:16:59,880
I'm not going to predict it, but I'm not gonna flinch.

1597
01:17:00,079 --> 01:17:02,640
You told me that's what happened. So this team, certainly,

1598
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:06,199
I think has a high immediate ceiling. I'll just be

1599
01:17:06,239 --> 01:17:08,279
curious to see how it all kind of translates and

1600
01:17:08,319 --> 01:17:11,840
whether they have develop enough, have done enough, and will

1601
01:17:12,039 --> 01:17:14,800
run enough stuff to like they need to materially improve

1602
01:17:15,119 --> 01:17:17,039
this offensive attack. I think that, like, if you're gonna

1603
01:17:17,119 --> 01:17:19,880
enter fifty win territory and they do that without like

1604
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:23,760
a like a league average ish offense at bare minimum,

1605
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:25,560
that would be absolutely shocking to me.

1606
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:29,000
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, I think the Magic are at a point where,

1607
01:17:29,159 --> 01:17:31,640
even if they were to dip the all forty seven wins,

1608
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,600
I wouldn't necessarily view them as a worst team from

1609
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:37,840
last season because, like you said, like there's a lot

1610
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:40,359
of variations that go into why you've won less games

1611
01:17:40,359 --> 01:17:43,479
than you did the season before. The Magic We're dealt

1612
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:45,880
with a lot of injury luck a lot of time.

1613
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:50,399
There were multiple times there's a batch of games they

1614
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:53,760
never played the Miami Heat at full strength. Ever, Jimmy

1615
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,439
Butler missed two games, bam at a Bio missed another game,

1616
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,119
and then when they played the Bucks, one time they

1617
01:18:00,159 --> 01:18:05,039
were without Giannis, another time the team was without Damian Lillard,

1618
01:18:05,239 --> 01:18:10,000
Joel Andbii's health is also a common question for the

1619
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:12,800
Philadelphia seventy six ers. So, like I said, I think

1620
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:15,039
the Magic are at a stage in their life cycle

1621
01:18:15,039 --> 01:18:17,279
where if they were to be one, two, three, four,

1622
01:18:17,359 --> 01:18:19,279
five or six, and just as long as they avoid

1623
01:18:19,319 --> 01:18:24,600
the play in I wouldn't necessarily delineate this season's success

1624
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:29,279
despite lesser wins as a worse season, because once you

1625
01:18:29,319 --> 01:18:31,760
start the playoffs you're on a clean slate again and

1626
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:37,199
the team is structured to I believe advanced in the

1627
01:18:37,199 --> 01:18:40,159
first round easier than they were the season prior to.

1628
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:42,520
So as long as they can get to the playoffs

1629
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:46,800
and avoid the plan, I don't necessarily think that having.

1630
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,800
Speaker 4: Fifty to fifty one, fifty two, fifty three, fifty four

1631
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:49,479
to fifty.

1632
01:18:49,239 --> 01:18:55,359
Speaker 5: Five wins necessarily will will come will make me come

1633
01:18:55,399 --> 01:18:57,359
back next season and say, oh, hey, the Orlanto Magic

1634
01:18:57,359 --> 01:18:59,600
were just so much better. I think progress for the

1635
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:03,039
Orlanta Magic is can you get past the first round,

1636
01:19:03,199 --> 01:19:05,039
and can you put up a fight in the second round,

1637
01:19:05,319 --> 01:19:07,159
and what does that flight fight look like? And who

1638
01:19:07,199 --> 01:19:09,760
did you lose to in the second round? And who

1639
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:11,319
did you beat in the first round to get to.

1640
01:19:11,279 --> 01:19:11,920
Speaker 4: The second round.

1641
01:19:12,079 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 5: I think that's the kind of life cycle that we're

1642
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:15,600
in at this point.

1643
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:19,600
Speaker 1: Is there anything out else or anyone else on this

1644
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:21,600
team about this team that I didn't ask you about,

1645
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:23,239
We didn't talk about that. You think we need to

1646
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:29,159
discuss before I let you skidaddle? Nope, dope, you just

1647
01:19:29,159 --> 01:19:31,960
made it through. Your first appearance on Hardware Knox was

1648
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:33,000
on how do you How do you feel?

1649
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:37,600
Speaker 3: I feel good? I feel good. This was also my

1650
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:39,680
second podcast I've ever done.

1651
01:19:40,199 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 2: I still find that wild.

1652
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,319
Speaker 1: We Gotta tell the we Gotta Tell more podcasts invite

1653
01:19:45,359 --> 01:19:47,720
you on the Twitter handles on screen in the podcast

1654
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:50,680
you hube description and speaking of that, can you just

1655
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:52,800
tell our listeners where they can find you and all

1656
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:54,800
the content that you're putting out?

1657
01:19:55,199 --> 01:19:57,680
Speaker 5: Well, I'm hoping, I'm praying that you can still find

1658
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:00,439
me on Twitter X whatever it's called. My acount was

1659
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:04,439
suspended you to FIVA regulations on Twitter. If you're listening

1660
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:07,039
to this podcast, Elon. If you're listening to this podcast,

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01:20:07,159 --> 01:20:12,399
please unsuspend me from Twitter. If not, I'm gonna just

1662
01:20:12,399 --> 01:20:15,000
have to create a new account. I don't know what

1663
01:20:15,039 --> 01:20:18,159
that's gonna look like at this point, but if you

1664
01:20:18,199 --> 01:20:21,800
are on Twitter and my account is active, my account

1665
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,800
is listed on the bottom right fawz a N and

1666
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,039
you are underscore, you can find my work at the

1667
01:20:27,079 --> 01:20:32,199
six Man Show dot com. Go hit on my guys,

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01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:34,359
I work for the six Man Show podcast.

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01:20:35,039 --> 01:20:37,279
Speaker 4: Go hit them apollow as well and you can find

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01:20:37,279 --> 01:20:37,760
all my work.

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01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and rest is sure. I'll be

1672
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:44,039
passing you again in the future, so thanks for your timing.

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01:20:44,079 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 4: Inside Man appreciate you. Dan