WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.000 Now one of your pudding. I got a string going 2 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:06.120 on here, something just because my dog. Something killed your dog. 3 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:08.960 My dog. We're flying through the air over the tree. 4 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:13.640 I don't know how it did it, Okay, Damn, I'm 5 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:16.120 really confused. All I saw was my dog coming over 6 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:17.800 the fence and he was dead. And once you hit 7 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:19.679 the ground like, I didn't see any cars. All I 8 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:38.320 saw was my dog coming over the fence. Sat, what 9 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:42.960 are you putting? We got some wonder or something crawling 10 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:51.759 around out here? Did you see what it was? Or 11 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:54.159 was it was? Standing enough? I'm out here looking through 12 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:55.920 the window now and I don't see anything. I don't 13 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:03.880 want to go outside. Jesus Quice, you better hello, hit 14 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.439 theboddy out here on Quen. I'm out there. I thought 15 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:08.959 of a bench about tex forty nine. I don't know 16 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.920 easy ann out there? Yeah, I'm walking right head uh. 17 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:17.959 Chapter thirty seven Strange Encounters. Not all encounters fit neatly 18 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.599 into categories. Some of the most compelling stories I documented 19 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:26.040 were also the strangest accounts that went beyond simple sightings 20 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:29.959 that suggested these creatures had abilities and behaviors we couldn't 21 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.000 begin to explain. From the mountains of North Carolina, my 22 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:37.519 own backyard. I interviewed a man named Walter Price, who'd 23 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:40.920 had an experience that still gave me chills. I was 24 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:44.959 camping alone in the Nantahala. Walter said his voice was steady, 25 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:49.439 but I could hear the tension underneath. October of twenty sixteen. 26 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:52.840 I'd been out for three days, hadn't seen another person 27 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:56.560 the whole time. That was the point. I wanted solitude, 28 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.560 wanted to get away from everything. What happened the third night? 29 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:04.439 I woke up around two in the morning. Don't know 30 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:08.719 what woke me. No sound, no movement, just this feeling 31 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:13.120 like something had changed. I lay there in my tent listening, 32 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.560 and that's when I realized the forest had gone completely silent. 33 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:22.800 No insects, no owls, nothing. What did you do? I 34 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.639 unzipped the tent flap and looked out. The moon was 35 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:29.199 up almost full, so I could see pretty well, and 36 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:31.759 standing about thirty feet from my tent, right at the 37 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:36.039 edge of the trees, was a creature, huge, seven feet 38 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:41.479 tall maybe more, just standing there watching me. What did 39 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:45.879 it do? Nothing? At first, we just stared at each other. 40 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:48.960 I was too scared to move, too scared to breathe, 41 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:54.599 and then Walter stopped started again. Then something happened that 42 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:59.000 I can't explain. I started seeing things, images in my head, 43 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:01.719 like some someone was showing me a movie, except it 44 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:06.120 was playing behind my eyes. What kind of images? The forest, 45 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:08.840 but not the way it is now, the way it 46 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:13.439 was before, before the roads, before the logging, before any 47 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:16.599 of it. I saw trees that were hundreds of feet tall. 48 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:21.560 I saw animals. I didn't recognize, huge things, like nothing 49 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:26.400 that exists today, and I saw them, the creatures, dozens 50 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:29.800 of them, living in those ancient woods, part of an 51 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:33.800 ecosystem we've destroyed. You're saying the creature showed you this. 52 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:37.479 I'm saying I saw it. Whether it showed me or 53 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:40.639 I imagined it, I don't know. But it felt real, 54 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:43.879 more real than the ten I was sitting in, more 55 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.159 real than anything I'd experienced before. It was like I 56 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:50.960 was there in that ancient forest, seeing through eyes that 57 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:55.039 weren't my own. How long did it last? I don't know, 58 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:59.560 seconds maybe, or hours. Time didn't work right while it 59 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.599 was happening. When it stopped, the creature was gone, the 60 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:07.400 forest sounds were back, and I was sitting in my tent, shaking, 61 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:10.840 trying to understand what had just happened to me. Have 62 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:14.919 you had any experiences since? No, but I think about 63 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.680 it every day. I see those images when I close 64 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:22.399 my eyes, the ancient forest, the creatures, the world that 65 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:26.439 used to be Walter's voice grew quiet. I think it 66 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:29.480 was trying to tell me something, show me what we've lost, 67 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:33.399 what we're still losing, Like a warning or a plea, 68 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:37.920 like it wanted me to understand. From Oregon, I interviewed 69 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:40.879 a woman named Jennifer Blackwood who'd had an encounter that 70 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:44.560 challenged everything I thought I knew about these creatures. I 71 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:47.360 was hiking in the Cascades with my daughter. Jennifer said 72 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:50.079 she was eight at the time. We were on a 73 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:57.759 popular trail, nothing remote, nothing, dangerous, families everywhere. What happened, Emma, 74 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:01.879 my daughter wandered off just for a minute while I 75 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:05.279 was checking my phone. When I looked up, she was gone. 76 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:09.240 I panicked, started calling her name, running down the trail. 77 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:13.079 Other hikers helped me search. We couldn't find her anywhere. 78 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:17.560 How long was she missing? About forty five minutes, the 79 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:21.000 longest forty five minutes of my life. I was convinced 80 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:24.319 something terrible had happened. We were about to call search 81 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.040 and rescue when she walked out of the trees, calm 82 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:30.759 as could be, like, nothing was wrong. Where had she been? 83 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:33.959 That's what I asked her, and what she told me. 84 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:38.000 Jennifer's voice caught. She said she'd been playing with a big, 85 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.720 furry man. She said he'd found her crying in the 86 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:44.040 woods and stayed with her, keeping her company, showing her 87 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:47.120 animals and plants. When she was ready to come back, 88 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:49.000 he'd brought her to the edge of the trees and 89 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:52.839 pointed her toward the trail. Did she describe this creature? 90 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:56.680 She said he was tall, taller than daddy and my 91 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:59.680 husband is six foot two. She said he was covered 92 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.920 in bread fur and had kind eyes. She said he 93 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:06.079 smelled bad but was very gentle, and that he made 94 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:10.639 sound she didn't understand, but somehow knew meant don't be afraid. 95 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:14.120 Did you believe her? I wanted to think she'd imagined 96 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:17.879 it a child's fantasy, a way of coping with being lost, 97 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:21.480 But there were things she couldn't have known. She described 98 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:26.560 the smell, that specific, unmistakable smell that everyone reports. She 99 00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:29.360 described the way he walked, the length of his arms, 100 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:33.199 details that match accounts from witnesses around the world. And 101 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:36.560 she had hair on her jacket, long reddish brown hair 102 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:40.160 that didn't match any animal. We could identify what happened 103 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.360 to the hair. I kept it, had it analyzed by 104 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.720 a friend who works in a lab. The results were inconclusive. 105 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:50.519 They couldn't identify what species it came from. Not bear, 106 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:56.480 not human, not any known primate, just unknown. How has 107 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:59.800 this affected your daughter? She's not afraid of the woods. 108 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:02.759 Most kids who get lost, they develop a fear of 109 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:07.519 being alone in nature. Not Emma. She loves hiking, loves camping, 110 00:07:07.959 --> 00:07:10.839 talks about her friends sometimes when she thinks I'm not listening. 111 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:16.839 She's not traumatized. If anything, she's grateful, like she understands 112 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:20.959 something the rest of us don't. These strange encounters suggested 113 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:25.279 something profound. The creatures weren't simply animals hiding in the wilderness. 114 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:30.319 They had intelligence, perhaps even compassion. They could communicate in 115 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:34.480 ways we didn't understand. They had a history, a culture, 116 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:37.759 a perspective on the world that we were only beginning 117 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:41.959 to glimpse. And they were watching us, not as predators 118 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:47.199 watch prey, but as neighbors watch neighbors, keeping track, staying aware, 119 00:07:47.800 --> 00:07:52.160 waiting for something. What that something was I still didn't know, 120 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:56.839 but I was getting closer to understanding. Chapter thirty eight, 121 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:01.360 The hoaxers and the true believers. The podcast meant dealing 122 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.560 with people who wanted to deceive me. Some were obvious, 123 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:09.319 the attention seekers, the compulsive liars, the people who'd fabricated 124 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:13.759 encounters for reasons I couldn't fathom. But others were more sophisticated, 125 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:18.879 more dangerous, people who'd created elaborate hoaxes, complete with fake 126 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:23.040 evidence and rehearsed stories, hoping to discredit the entire field. 127 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:27.279 By getting exposed, I learned to spot them. The details 128 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:30.480 that were too perfect, the willingness to show evidence before 129 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:34.600 being asked, the stories that hit every expected beat without 130 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:38.960 any of the messiness that characterized real encounters. But sometimes 131 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.480 even I was fooled. The Thompson case nearly destroyed my credibility. 132 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:48.039 Gerald Thompson was a retired biology professor from California who 133 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.840 reached out with what seemed like the most compelling evidence 134 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:55.799 I'd ever encountered. He had photographs, clear, detailed photographs of 135 00:08:55.799 --> 00:09:00.080 a creature in the forest. He had hair samples, footprint casts, 136 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:05.120 audio recordings of vocalizations. He had documentation going back years, 137 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:10.240 carefully compiled with scientific rigor. I interviewed him twice before 138 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:14.559 the episode aired. His story was consistent, his credentials were real, 139 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:18.519 and his evidence was extraordinary. I was convinced I'd found 140 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:21.919 the smoking gun proof so solid that even the skeptics 141 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:25.000 would have to pay attention. The episode went live on 142 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:29.120 a Friday. By Monday, it had all fallen apart. A 143 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:32.399 group of researchers in California had been tracking Thompson for years, 144 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:37.919 documenting his increasingly elaborate hoaxes. The photographs were clever fakes 145 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:42.320 a suit he'd designed himself, worn by a friend. The 146 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.639 hair samples were from a black bear, treated with chemicals 147 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:49.159 to alter their appearance. The footprint casts were made from 148 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:52.759 wooden molds he'd carved in his workshop. It was all fake, 149 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:56.559 every piece of it. I pulled the episode immediately and 150 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:01.000 recorded a retraction, but the damage was done. Skeptics pointed 151 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:03.440 to the Thompson case as proof that I was credulous, 152 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.840 that the entire podcast was built on wishful thinking and 153 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:12.399 poor judgment. Downloads dropped, sponsors pulled out the community, fractured, 154 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.360 with some members defending me and others accusing me of 155 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:18.440 betraying their trust. It was the lowest point of my 156 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:22.039 podcasting career. Daniel found me in the studio at three 157 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:25.360 in the morning, staring at my computer screen, reading the 158 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:28.919 comments that tore apart everything I'd built. Come to bed, 159 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:33.759 he said, I can't. I ruined everything. You made a mistake. 160 00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:37.240 That's not the same as ruining everything. I gave a 161 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.679 platform to a hoaxer. I validated his lies. Every genuine 162 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:44.360 witness who's ever trusted me, I made them look like 163 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:49.039 fools by association. Daniel sat down beside me. You know 164 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:51.519 what I see when I look at those comments. I 165 00:10:51.559 --> 00:10:54.679 see people who care, people who are angry because this 166 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.360 matters to them. That's not a sign of failure. That's 167 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:01.559 a sign that you've built something worth caring about. But 168 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:06.960 you caught the mistake, you admitted it publicly. You took responsibility. 169 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:10.960 That's more than most people would do. And the genuine witnesses, 170 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.080 the hundreds of people whose stories you've shared, they're still real. 171 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:19.519 Thompson's lives don't change their truth. I wanted to argue, 172 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:23.080 wanted to wallow in the failure but Daniel was right. 173 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:27.840 He usually was, What do I do now? You keep going, 174 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.399 You improve your vetting process, you learn from the mistake, 175 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:34.159 and you remember why you started this in the first place. 176 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.879 I looked at him, this man who'd stood beside me 177 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:42.000 through everything, who'd never wavered in his support, who believed 178 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:45.320 in me even when I didn't believe in myself. I 179 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:49.960 love you, I said, I know. Now, come to bed tomorrow. 180 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:55.919 You rebuild. The rebuilding took months. I implemented new verification procedures, 181 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:01.279 multiple interviews, background checks, independent analysis of any physical evidence. 182 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:04.519 I brought in consultants to review claims before they went 183 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.879 on air. I created a system of peer review within 184 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:13.399 the community, allowing experienced researchers to flag potential problems. Slowly, 185 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:18.080 the trust returned, the downloads recovered, the sponsors came back, 186 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:22.360 and the podcast emerged stronger than before, with a reputation 187 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.159 for rigor that it hadn't had previously. The Thompson case 188 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.399 had nearly destroyed me. Instead, it made me better. And 189 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:33.840 when the next hoaxer came along, and they did regularly, 190 00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:37.320 I was ready for them. Not everyone who reached out 191 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:40.879 was a hoaxer, of course, most were genuine people with 192 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:45.879 real experiences seeking validation and connection. Some became regulars in 193 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:49.360 the community, contributing their knowledge and supporting others who came 194 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:53.200 after them. One such person was Benjamin crow Feather, a 195 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:56.759 Lakota elder from South Dakota who'd spent his life documenting 196 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:00.360 encounters among the Sioux people. We call them the Big Man, 197 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:04.000 Benjamin said during an interview that lasted nearly three hours. 198 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:07.559 They've been part of our stories since before memory. The 199 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:11.000 elders say. They're guardians of the wild places, protectors of 200 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:14.080 the land and the animals that live there. Have you 201 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:17.919 had personal encounters many times, the first when I was 202 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:21.799 seven years old, the most recent just last month. They 203 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.679 know me. I think they know anyone who pays attention, 204 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:28.480 who respects the old ways, who understands that we share 205 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:32.360 this world with beings we don't fully understand. What have 206 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:36.600 these encounters taught you? Humility? Mostly, we think we're the 207 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:40.200 masters of this world, but we're not. We're just one 208 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:44.279 species among many trying to survive. The Big Man have 209 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:48.000 survived for thousands of years by staying hidden, by adapting, 210 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.679 by understanding things we've forgotten. If we were wise, we'd 211 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:56.399 learn from them. What do you think they want to 212 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:00.200 be left alone, mostly, but also to be acknowledged, to 213 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.480 be respected. They've watched us destroy so much of the 214 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:06.279 world they love. I think they're waiting to see if 215 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:09.399 we'll come to our senses before it's too late. And 216 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.960 if we don't, Benjamin was quiet for a long moment, 217 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:17.600 then they'll outlast us. They've survived ice, ages and extinctions, 218 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.159 and the rise and fall of civilizations. They'll survive whatever 219 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:24.679 we do to ourselves. The question is whether we'll survive 220 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:27.480 with them, or whether we'll just be another species that 221 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:31.240 couldn't adapt. His words stayed with me long after the 222 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.799 interview ended, a reminder of what was at stake, a 223 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:38.440 reminder of why this work mattered. The hoaxers could try 224 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:42.559 to discredit us, the skeptics could deny the evidence, but 225 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.840 the truth remained patient and persistent, waiting to be heard, 226 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:52.200 and I would keep listening. Chapter thirty nine encounters across 227 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.399 the world. The international expansion of the podcast brought stories 228 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:59.799 I never could have anticipated. While the North American encounters 229 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:03.200 were the most numerous reports from other continents added depth 230 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:07.519 and complexity to my understanding, and stay tuned for more 231 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:14.919 sasquatch otaesee, We'll be right back after these messages. These 232 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:20.039 creatures or beings like them existed everywhere on every continent 233 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.879 except Antarctica, in environments ranging from tropical rainforests to frozen tundra. 234 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:29.240 People were reporting encounters with large, bipedal, hair covered beings 235 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:33.519 that defied easy explanation from the mountains of Tibet. I 236 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:36.840 interviewed a monk named Tensen Wongchuk, who lived his entire 237 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:40.399 life in a monastery near the Himalayan snow line. The 238 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:43.600 YETI is not a beast, Tensen said, is English, careful 239 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:47.600 and precise. It is a being, a sentient creature with 240 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:52.240 a soul capable of enlightenment, like any human. Our scriptures 241 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:55.480 speak of them as guardians of the high places, watchers 242 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:59.840 who observe humanity's progress and report to forces beyond our understanding. 243 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.759 Have you encountered them? I have seen them many times. 244 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:07.399 They visit the monastery, sometimes in the depths of winter, 245 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.759 when the snow makes the paths impassable. They watch from 246 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:14.440 the ridges, ensuring we are safe. Once, when I was 247 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.080 a young novice, one came close enough that I could 248 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:21.159 see its eyes. There was wisdom in those eyes, compassion, 249 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:25.440 an understanding of suffering that surpassed even the oldest Lamas. 250 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.480 Do the other monks speak of these encounters, we do 251 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:32.919 not need to speak. We all know the yettier part 252 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.960 of our world have always been part of our world. 253 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.559 To deny their existence would be like denying the mountains themselves. 254 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.120 From the Congo Basin, I spoke with a conservation biologist 255 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.759 named doctor Marie Lukamba, who'd been researching reports of the 256 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:52.320 Nguma monin, a creature described in local traditions as a massive, 257 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.919 hair covered being that lived in the deepest parts of 258 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:59.919 the rainforest. Western science dismisses these reports. Doctor Lukamba said, 259 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.519 they assume the indigenous peoples are superstitious, that they're confusing 260 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:08.559 known animals with mythological beings. But I've interviewed hundreds of 261 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.480 witnesses over the past fifteen years. Their descriptions are consistent, 262 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:17.160 their details are specific. They're not making this up. What 263 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:21.720 have you found? Tracks primarily footprints that don't match any 264 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:25.720 known primate, too large for guerrillas, shaped wrong for chimps, 265 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:30.440 hair samples that can't be identified, audio recordings of vocalizations 266 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:34.119 that don't match any documented species, The evidence is there, 267 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.400 it's just that no one in the scientific establishment wants 268 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:39.920 to look at it. Why do you think that is? 269 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:45.960 Fear mostly fear of ridicule, fear of career damage, fear 270 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.240 of having to admit that the world is stranger than 271 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.079 our models allow. Scientists are supposed to be open minded, 272 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:56.279 but in practice we're as dogmatic as anyone. If something 273 00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:59.920 doesn't fit our paradigm, we ignore it. But you have 274 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.039 haven't ignored it. I can't. I've seen too much. I 275 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.400 know what's out there, even if I can't prove it 276 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:09.880 to the satisfaction of peer reviewers, and I'll keep looking, 277 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:15.920 keep documenting, keep gathering evidence. Someday the truth will be undeniable. 278 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.319 I just hope I'm still around to see it. From 279 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:22.319 the remote highlands of Papua New Guinea, I interviewed a 280 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:25.960 missionary named Father Patrick O'Brien, who'd served in the country 281 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:29.279 for over forty years. The local people call them the 282 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.480 Moo Moo. Father Patrick said they're part of the spiritual 283 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:35.839 landscape here, beings that exist at the boundary between the 284 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:39.960 natural and the supernatural. I was skeptical at first, as 285 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.200 any rational Westerner would be, but I've lived here long 286 00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:47.880 enough to know that my skepticism was misplaced. What convinced you? 287 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:52.119 I saw one in nineteen eighty seven while traveling between 288 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:55.279 villages on foot. It was standing on a ridge above 289 00:18:55.279 --> 00:19:00.519 the trail, watching me. Massive, easily seven feet tall, covered 290 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:05.200 in dark hair. It made no threatening moves, just observed. 291 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:08.440 When I reached for my camera, it disappeared into the bush. 292 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:12.599 I've never seen anything move that fast. How did the 293 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:16.240 local people react when you told them? They weren't surprised. 294 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:19.440 They told me I'd been blessed that the Mumu had 295 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.519 chosen to reveal itself to me. They said it meant 296 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:25.400 I was meant to stay, to be part of their community. 297 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:30.759 And I have forty years now. I'll die here among 298 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:33.920 people who understand things about the world that my seminary 299 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:38.920 training never prepared me for. From the vast forests of Siberia, 300 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.680 I connected with a researcher named doctor Igor Ivanov, who'd 301 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.599 been studying the almasty Russia's version of Bigfoot for over 302 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:51.960 fifty years. The Soviet government suppressed our research, doctor Ivanov said, 303 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.400 his voice crackling through the poor connection. They didn't want 304 00:19:55.440 --> 00:20:00.480 evidence of unknown primates. It contradicted the materialist ideology, but 305 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.839 we continued in secret. We documented hundreds of encounters. We 306 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.559 collected evidence that would have revolutionized our understanding of evolution. 307 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:13.599 What happened to that evidence? Some was destroyed, Some was 308 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:17.200 buried in archives that no one can access. Some I've 309 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:22.359 preserved myself at great personal risk. When the Soviet Union collapsed, 310 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:25.079 I thought the truth would finally come out. But the 311 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:28.680 new Russia has its own reasons for suppression. The powerful 312 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:32.440 don't want people asking questions they can't answer. What do 313 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:35.359 you believe these creatures are? I believe they are a 314 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:41.440 relict population of hominids, perhaps Neanderthals, perhaps something older. They've 315 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:44.680 survived in the remote places of the world, avoiding detection 316 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:48.160 through intelligence and caution. They are our cousins, in a sense, 317 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.480 branches of the same evolutionary tree that diverged long ago. 318 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.640 Do you think they'll ever be officially recognized in my lifetime? 319 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:02.400 Probably not, But the evidence is mounting. The witnesses are speaking. 320 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:06.839 Someday the scientific establishment will have no choice but to 321 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:10.039 acknowledge what people like us have known for decades. The 322 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.759 almisty are real. They've always been real, and no amount 323 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:17.960 of denial can change that. The international interviews painted a 324 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.400 picture of a global phenomenon. These creatures, whatever they were, 325 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:26.799 wherever they lived, were part of the human experience. Every 326 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.960 culture had stories about them, every remote region had witnesses. 327 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:36.359 The details varied, but the core remained the same, large, bipedal, 328 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:40.000 intelligent beings that had shared this planet with humanity for millennia. 329 00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:45.359 We weren't alone, We'd never been alone, and perhaps, if 330 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.440 we were wise, we could learn to coexist with these 331 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:53.279 ancient neighbors before it was too late. Chapter forty. Daniel's 332 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:57.400 quiet strength through all of it, the growth, the setbacks, 333 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:02.240 the triumphs and failures, remained my anchor. He'd found his 334 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:05.559 rhythm at Mountain Pies, rising through the ranks from assistant 335 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:09.519 manager to general manager within two years. The Hartley family 336 00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:12.200 had come to rely on him, trusting him to run 337 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.960 the restaurant while they focused on expansion plans for a 338 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:18.759 second location. I never thought I'd be passionate about pizza, 339 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.039 he told me one evening as we sat on the 340 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:25.160 porch watching the sunset. But there's something satisfying about it 341 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:29.000 making something with your hands that brings people joy. No 342 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:35.039 existential threats, no government conspiracies, just dough and sauce and cheese. 343 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:39.000 You don't miss the excitement. I miss some things, the 344 00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:42.559 sense of purpose, the feeling that what we were doing mattered. 345 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.480 But I don't miss the fear. I don't miss wondering 346 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:47.880 if tonight was the night someone would come for us. 347 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:51.079 He took my hand. I get to come home to 348 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.640 you every day. I get to sleep without nightmares. That's 349 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:58.079 worth more than excitement. I'm sorry for putting you through 350 00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:02.119 all that. Don't be I chose this. I chose you, 351 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:06.119 and I'd make the same choice again every time he 352 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:10.599 squeezed my hand. Besides, the podcast is doing important work, 353 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.880 changing lives, changing the world. I'm proud to be part 354 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:19.079 of it, even from the sidelines. You're not on the sidelines. 355 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:23.000 You're what keeps me going. Well, then I guess we're 356 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:27.720 both doing important work. Daniel's steadiness manifested in a thousand 357 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.559 small ways. He was the one who reminded me to 358 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.480 eat when I got lost in research, the one who 359 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.319 insisted I take breaks, go for walks, remember that there 360 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:40.839 was a world beyond the studio and the screen. The 361 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:42.559 one who held me when the weight of what I'd 362 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:45.880 learned became too heavy to carry alone. He was also 363 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.960 the one who kept me honest. You're getting too close 364 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:52.240 to this interview, he'd say. Sometimes, reading over my notes, 365 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:55.640 you want to believe them, but the story doesn't add up. 366 00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:00.359 Or this one's real, I can feel it. Don't let 367 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.839 your skepticism get in the way. He had good instincts, 368 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:08.279 better than mine. Sometimes he could sense authenticity in ways 369 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.039 that my analytical mind missed. He understood people in a 370 00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:15.559 way that I, with my law enforcement background, often didn't. 371 00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:19.559 You see criminals and victims, he explained, once, I see 372 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:24.359 humans flawed, complicated, trying to make sense of experiences that 373 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:27.240 don't fit the world they thought they knew. It's the 374 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.279 same whether they're telling the truth or lying. They're all 375 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:34.400 just people doing the best they can. One evening, Daniel 376 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:37.559 came home with news that surprised me. The Hartleys want 377 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.119 to open a second location, he said, and they want 378 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:44.920 me to run it. That's great, congratulations. There's a catch. 379 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.880 The location they're considering is in Ashville, about an hour away. 380 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:53.519 I felt a chill. You'd be commuting, That's what I 381 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:56.079 told them. I'd need to think about an hour each 382 00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:59.799 way is a lot. But the opportunity. He shook his head. 383 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:02.640 It's a chance to build something from the ground up, 384 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.880 to have real ownership, even without the title. What do 385 00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:09.759 you want to do? I don't know. Part of me 386 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:12.839 wants to stay here, close to you, close to what 387 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:15.599 we've built. Part of me wants to take the leap, 388 00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:19.480 see what I'm capable of. He looked at me, what 389 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:23.000 do you think? I thought about it, about the hours 390 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:26.559 we'd lose to driving, about the evenings he'd come home exhausted, 391 00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:30.319 about the strain it might put on our relationship. But 392 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:32.400 I also thought about his face when he talked about 393 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:37.079 the restaurant, the pride, the purpose, the joy of creating 394 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.279 something meaningful. I think you should do it, I said. 395 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:43.720 I think you'd regret it if you didn't, even if 396 00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:46.960 it means seeing less of each other. We've survived worse. 397 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:52.000 We'll figure it out. Daniel's eyes glistened. I love you. 398 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:55.480 You know that. I know. Now, go call the Hartleys 399 00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:58.440 before you talk yourself out of it. He kissed me 400 00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:01.839 and reached for his phone, and I watched him, this 401 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.279