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It allows me to basically put out an episode every

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going to accelerate. I think sometimes you see that I'm

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Head on over to Freeman Beyond the Wall dot com,

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekan Yana Show.

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Well this is going to be a different one. What's

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going on?

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Speaker 3: Burdo, Hey, what's up, man. I don't know what I'm

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getting my self into here, but yeah, it's gonna be

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a different one.

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Speaker 1: Well, if dark Enlightenment comes along in uh in fifteen

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or twenty minutes, yeah, things could get really wild, really quick.

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So yeah, and and as just on this happened by providence.

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I'm releasing that. I'm releasing this on May seventh.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, okay, everybody better turn the TV on.

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Speaker 1: I guess is that the verse?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It's gonna it's it's gonna take here's

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a I'm gonna do some predicting. It's gonna take a

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few days. I think that's a safe bet. It's gonna

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take a few days. Yeah, I mean, I don't really

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think that they actually know. I don't think anybody actually knows.

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Every time I see a list of possible popes, it's

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two or three different guys. Every time. People have no

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idea this time, which everybody knew Francis was going to

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be the pope last time. I think Benedict wasn't so sure,

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but John Paul was very sure also, So half of

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the time, at least in the modern you get people

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who were all very sure of and then now nobody

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is sure of who it will be, and so yeah,

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I guess today is the day where the conclave begins,

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but things will only start heating up as the Vatican

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insiders start getting tidbits, probably the following day. Yeah, so

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that's the conclave. It should be one hundred and thirty

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five electors, maybe one hundred and thirty four. Bet you

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dipped out, which everybody expected because of the he was

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involved in some banking scandal. So he's out, and there

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may be one cardinal who's not going to attend, So

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you have like one hundred and thirty three. Eighty percent

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of them were appointed by Pope Francis. Then this is

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where everybody gets to in the conversation. Well, that's pretty stacked.

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It is stacked. It's not historically, in particular, very stacked.

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Francis is appointed I think two more cardinals per year

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of his papacy than the next top guy, which was

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if I'm not mistaken, it was Benedict. So it's not

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a huge amount of difference in the years. But he

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has eighty percent of the cardinalship, and so that's the

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field of play, and everybody is wondering, well, who among

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these men will become the pope. There's basically three factions,

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three major factions that exist.

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Speaker 1: This is about so mirror This is so mirroring the election,

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the election and wondering who's going to you know, Trump

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has like three factions of elites around him. Biden has

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put in eighty percent of the freaking judges. I mean,

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this is this is.

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Speaker 3: It's totally political. Yeah, ye, completely political. It's not the

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only time in history it's been very political, but it

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is very political right now. So, uh, Francis has the

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largest block predictably, about half of all of the cardinals.

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There a couple of different Vaticans and Sounders have done

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their indexes of how they think they'll vote. Of course,

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all of this is speculative, but Pope Francis's vision is

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very pastoral and ecumenical and geoe geo politically focused on

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the periphery. That's a friendly way to put it. So

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he he's got about half of the cardinals who are

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just ready to vote for the next guy. Francis two.

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And then you have a second faction that makes them

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about a fifth of the cardinalship, which wants to kind

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of keep the Curia out of scandals. I would call

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that the centrist faction. They're one of their primary concerns

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is ensuring that some of the hallmark moments of Francis's papacy,

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the vagueness, lack of communication. They're kind of hoping maybe

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we can put a lid on that gets someone who's

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a little bit clearer in their doctrines. And then you

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have just a very small third traditionalist faction, you know,

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the liturgical restorationists. They want the doctrinal clarity. But that

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is the full breakdown, and you need they're going to

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need eighty six to ninety votes for one cardinal in

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order to have that election. It's going to be a

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two thirds majority. And so I don't know, there's a

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lot of names that have been going around, so I

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figured I would do my typical deep dive into some

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of the names. I figured this would be a topic

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everybody wanted to know about. So anyway, that's the breakdown

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of the how the election is going to work in

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very short.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, who oh, I don't want you to make predictions

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yet and go through everything, and we can let you

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figure out who you think which faction is going to

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win out. I mean, do you think all right here

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let me let me ask you this, do you think

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that there is any influence that anybody is going to

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take into consideration the fact that like what they's what

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they've been saying about how priests have been ordained in

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the last ten years or overwhelm conservative Is it too

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early for that? Do we need another couple papacies?

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Speaker 3: So the only people who really have any effects of

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the cardinals, and so until that flips, I don't think so.

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We sort of based on public opinions, all these guys are.

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They're cardinals, so they they're constantly talking to the media

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that that centrist group that you're seeing that is really

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the that is really the model that's moving towards a

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handshake between that center and the youth, most of the

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youth in terms of the young clergy, the priests who

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are coming up. The influence is that they could possibly

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have on the papacy won't come if I have to guess,

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for at least another two papacies. The average papacy length

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is fourteen years in the modern since nineteen hundred, so

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twenty eight years from now you can start to see

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that changes. People start getting put into the places of

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archbishops and cardinalships. But it's very difficult because our church,

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it doesn't operate on the time scales of empires or

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democratic republics. It really operates on a completely separate and

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very long term time scale. So it could be for

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all I know, it could be one hundred years until

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there is a bend back into a conservative approach. It

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really all depends on the geopolitics and how the Church

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is pressed from the outside. And so the quickest possibility

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is that a lot of that conservative youth, a lot

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of the clergy who have the chance, are coming from

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South America, which has a burgeoning right wing priestly movement,

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and then Asia. These are the two countries probably with them.

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By Asia, I mean like South Asia, like India in particular,

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there's a lot of conservatives coming out of there. But

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in terms of Europe.

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Speaker 1: I've met some very extremely conservative Indians, Indian priests and

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Filipinos also. I still don't want them to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I the the the Western Europeans who have for

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the majority of the Church's history made up I mean

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Italians have have made up the bulk of the popes

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in history. But as far as Western Europeans go, do

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you know the Sonodal way. Do you know? Do you

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know what the Sonoda way is? Should I explain that ahead?

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It's so, this a Nodal way is a conference, an

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ongoing conference that was begun I think in twenty thirteen,

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and the subjects of the conference were a lot of

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very challenging things like the celibacy among priests, contraceptives, how

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the church vieuse homosexuality. A lot of these public conversations

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were being held basically because it was kind of a

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hand extended out by the Holy See to Germany, where

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there are a huge number of priests and bishops. I

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think that the top guys called Botsker or something like that.

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This is an extremely progressive, leftist group of priests this

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region and so and Germany has the most clout besides

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Italy of any Catholic country in Europe in terms of

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the money they bring into the church, in terms into

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the visibility of the church. And so there was kind

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of a handshake that was done to allow the priests

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the bishops to speak more freely on their views of

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how the church was changing in Germany in particular, this

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was a hand extended to the German Church and what

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it indicated was is that Europe traditionally the place we

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got our popes from is nowhere near where cardinals would

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feel comfortable bringing people in. I don't expect there to

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be many more cardinals from the Frances Bloc. I didn't

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expect there to be too many more cardinal appointments from

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that area for a while. Of course, if we start

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to see that, then we know the way the church

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is going. So the chances increasingly, the chances of there

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being a year European pope, I think unless it's an Italian,

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tend to dwindle. I think the Italians have a kind

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of a perennially good opportunity of becoming the pope. They

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always make up a huge number of the cardinalship, Like

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I think there's sixty Italians right now, something crazy like that.

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And this is after the kind of DEI push. I

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don't mean that in quite as disrespectful a way as

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people normally say it. All these guys are highly qualified

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for the job, speak multiple languages, have multiple degrees. But yeah,

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they definitely opened it up to the parts of the

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world that are becoming Catholic quicker, which is South Asia,

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Southeast Asia, Latin America, Africa. So I don't unless it's

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an Italian. I don't see a grand possibility of there

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being a German or a French or an English. I

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just don't see it as possible. Just to kind of

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address that particular desire that a lot of people have,

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you're gonna have to become comfortable with the idea of

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an extremely stern Sri Lankan for a little while. And

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just remember that that's where Thomas went after he left

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the Holy Land. He went there anyway, that's that, that's

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the the chance of that.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that he really thinks they would pick

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a Sri Lankan or someone like that.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't around. I'll go I'll go into who

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I think is not electable. The Sri Lankan that I

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had in mind is Cardinal Malcolm ron Jief he ish.

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Speaker 1: I think he owns doesn't he work at the gas station?

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Speaker 2: By me? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I think he helped get back into America if I

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had the guess, Yeah, he's at the upper age limit

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for a new pope. He's seventy seven. It's at best

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he could be transitional, but he does not command a

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very strong voting bloc. He is one of the church's

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great champions of the old Latin mass. He's been vocally oppositional,

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in particular to female altar servers in the Archdiocees banned

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them completely, very anti globalist, very clear along the doctrinal lines.

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And he's probably the most the major voice for South

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Asia's Catholic conservative population. I mean, if if a guy

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like that was elected, it would be an unprecedented change

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away for this. This is this is Malcolm ron ron Je.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting. I wonder what his opinion is on

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Islam because the two Indian priests I've known in the

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past couple of years, they would go out of their

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way crap on Islam in the middle of a homily

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on a Tuesday Mass.

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Speaker 3: He is to answer your question, he's extremely vocally challenging

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towards Islam. But okay, so what about.

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Speaker 1: What about that other polytheistic religion.

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Speaker 3: We'll get to that, don't you worry. Okay, We'll got

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Oh you mean Hinduism not a people, Oh no, no, no, no,

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I'm talking about the other one. There could be a bunch.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about the one that's in that little Middle

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Eastern country that causes so many problems.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll get to that. All right, we'll get to that.

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But okay, you don't want to Sri Lankan. Fine, But

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how about Cardinal Christoph Schanborn. You're German and Austrian in fact, Well,

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he is a very progressive pastor. He's unlike to be

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voted in, but his name was going around. He does

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not have a very clear base. So he's very much

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against the ordination of female deacons. But he's very much

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in favor of divorced and remarried couple's remarriage. So he's

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got some weird opinions. He's very progressive on LGBTQ issues,

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of course, you know, not very good and so he

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he's out. So there's a German for you. He's kind

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of out. Now let's do an African. Let's do the

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number one African, Cardinal Robert Sarrah. That's not gonna happens.

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Speaker 1: Old, I'll that's not gonna happen.

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Speaker 3: He's seventy nine years old. He was associated for a

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long time with the Dicastery for Divine Worship, but he

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had a very tense, openly tense relationship with Francis over

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priestly celibacy and the Latin mass. So there's not a

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chance he's getting in all right. The majority of electors

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are not in his camp, and having a kind of

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open tension with the previous pope is just not That's

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not going to work.

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Speaker 2: So he's out.

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Speaker 1: I don't want him in there for other reasons, but

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go on.

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Speaker 3: So I'll give you another German Luxemburgish. Actually i'll give

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you a Luxemburgish option. Jean Claude Holleric Cardinals. Jean Claude

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Holleriic sixty eight years old, so he's in an ideal

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age range. But he's an extremely progressive key figure in

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the Synod on cinidality, which is related to what I

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was talking about before the sonodal way, he has openly

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suggested the Church needs to rethink its teachings on homosexuality,

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which he says are currently wrong, and he wants quote

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a fundamental revision of the doctrine. This is the Noyd pick.

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If you're a true Vatican conspiracy theorist, this is the

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guy that you want to be picked to confirm your

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theory the most. This is the guy. Holleric has downplayed

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his chances there. He has said there are many cardinals

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who are far more qualified, which essentially just means I'm

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gonna let me keep focusing on Germany. Put someone else

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in there, so his chances are fairly slim. I think.

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So that's that. How about an American, you want an

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American option?

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Speaker 1: What kind of American is he?

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Speaker 3: New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: Italian?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Irish Cardinal Joseph Tobin, he's the Archbishop

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of New Jersey. Also progressive, very close ally. Pope francis

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very much pastoral, socially conscious. Scott basically the same kind

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of views on all the issues that all the other

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progressives have. He's a tremendously large man. There is kind

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of an unspoken rule against electing popes from the United States.

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So the chance is zero. The chance will always be

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zero anybody in the United States.

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Speaker 1: Hey, look, the city of London has their first Lord

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Mayor who's an American. You never know what could happen.

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Speaker 3: It is possible, it is possible. Finally, let me give

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you another one who will not be elected. Cardinal Pierre

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Bautista Pizza Bala. Everybody loves Pierre Bautista Pizza Bala because

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he's become increasingly popular as the Jerusalem patriarch. He was

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only made a cardinal two years ago, maybe even it

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was last year, so it's very unlikely that he'll be elected.

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He's good on all the issues. I'm sure he would

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be even better on a lot of the issues if

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he was given the opportunity. And I think a guy

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like this will be excellent in the next conclave, which

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is likely to be fifteen twenty years from now. He's sixty,

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so he could be seventy two in a reasonable amount

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of time for the following conclave, depending on who comes in.

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So it's possible, but it's not likely now he's too young.

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The issue that he is really good on, you know,

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that issue that is not an issue that the church

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is going to be tackling anytime soon, as evidenced by

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other than the condemnations, as evidenced by most of the church,

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that besides condemnation, there isn't a lot of action diplomatically

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that's going to be taken on this.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I would think that if or already there

305
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is probably push from a certain group that he would

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not become pope. And plus if he became pope, I

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think a lot of people, a lot of people would

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have problems with that because he could possibly be Pope

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for twenty five or thirty years.

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Speaker 3: The thing is, though, that there's Nataniello in particular, has

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been very disrespectful to Pope Francis, very very disrespectful to

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the church and these guys at this level. You know,

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there's no Catholic apac right, so when their guy and

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these guys love Francis, Francis think if the church, if

315
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the church continues in the progressive way, Francis will become

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mythologogized to something like a Leo. I mean, he was

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a true champion for pastoralists, even not leftist pastoralists, which

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I don't think he gets enough credit for. He is

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a champion of the pastoral generation, and they're just I

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don't imagine the disrespect combined with the fact that the

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cardinalship the church really doesn't rely on a lot of

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outside money, if you know what I mean that. I

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do think that increasingly you're gonna see from the progressive wing,

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which isn't too unexpected, more opposition in that subject matter.

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It was Francis who appointed Peer Pizzavallah to that position,

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I mean just a year and a half ago, during

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the middle of everything going on. So he knew what

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he was doing. He made him a cardinal. I mean,

329
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so he knew what he was doing. And I think

330
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that that kind of trend actually is going to continue

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no matter how left the pilot's bend towards. I actually

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do think that'll continue.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: So you're basically rolling out everyone who won't get there.

335
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Speaker 3: Do you have a middle group? I have the ones

336
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I think who have a chance, and I have the

337
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one who I think will become the pope. So I'll

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give you my list of who I think has a chance,

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and then I'll just say who I think gets it.

340
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So there. Firstly, there is Cardinal Matteo Zoopi. He's an Italian.

341
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He is the Archbishop of Bologna, and he is known

342
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for his piece work. He was Francis's peace envoy. He

343
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was known for brokering peace mediations and contracts in Mozambique.

344
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That's kind of where he's known from. And he's also

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known a as a member, a key member of the

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son A Gedio community, the son of Gudio community. I mean,

347
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there's a lot of ways one could express what that

348
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organization is, but for the convenience of your listeners, I'll

349
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say the Sonagdeo community was one of the key groups

350
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that it was responsible for organizing migrant corridors into Europe

351
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through Ethiopia. So that's the kind of thing that he's

352
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up to. As far as liturgy goes, he is a traditionalist,

353
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friendly progressive. He is more friendly towards the traditional Latin

354
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mass than Francis was. He actually performed traditional Latin masses

355
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in Italy, where it has a very different connotation than

356
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it does in the United States, and Francis not only

357
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didn't have a problem with him doing it, he promoted

358
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him a number of times. They performed a traditional Latin

359
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Mass in the Pantheon and it was a huge event

360
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and people were wondering if Zupy was going to get

361
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in trouble for this huge event, and there's nothing. Francis

362
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,519
was fine with it, and then he promoted him a bunch.

363
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So that's a kind of a weird thing. You almost

364
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never see traditional old mass support among this faction, but

365
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:19,279
he is I would call him center left politically, but

366
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he is a strong advocate for the migrants. He is

367
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a peace envoy in Ukraine and as far as I

368
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looked into the issues, he just wants to get the

369
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peace done, which is fine with me. And he's pastorally

370
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:45,319
been very open on woman's ordination into religious dialogue with Islam.

371
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And he's got a very globalist outlook. Out of the

372
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list of all the guys that I have, he's the

373
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only one who talked about Fidukia simplicans. He made some

374
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statements about it like, well, this is a very very

375
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challenging document and we're gonna have to take a lot

376
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,240
of time to think about how to apply it. So

377
00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:10,480
he wasn't all in on Fidukia Sipplicons either. He's made

378
00:27:10,519 --> 00:27:16,960
some good statements about Israel Gaza, and then he made

379
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,240
some very curious ones. He's repeatedly refused to call it

380
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:25,400
a genocide that came out of nowhere. I remember the

381
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,359
conversation where he was like, it's not a genocide, and

382
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,440
then he condemned anti Semitism, I think, in the same conversation.

383
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:39,039
So he's Italian, and he's got a lot of pastoral

384
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,880
charisma and closely tied to Francis, which could be a

385
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,319
liability for the conservatives, but I think he's got it.

386
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,079
So that's zupy zupe I say Zoopi is Francis too.

387
00:27:49,799 --> 00:27:54,079
He would be the most direct transition into a continuation

388
00:27:54,759 --> 00:28:01,319
of a pastorally. Francis like papacy the chances that I

389
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,920
give him. What do you think.

390
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that there are so many who

391
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,359
are the open border fagots who are like, okay with

392
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,880
the Latin Mass. It's kind of weird.

393
00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 3: You mean in America, Well, I mean no of the one.

394
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,960
Well that's true in America too, I think, yeah, yeah,

395
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,440
it's yeah. They The thing is, I think these guys

396
00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:29,799
they view especially because he's Italian, I think the way

397
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,599
they view the traditional Latin Mass is different than the

398
00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:35,799
way that Americans do in that you know, there's lots

399
00:28:35,799 --> 00:28:37,839
of different kinds of liturgies. The next guy we'll talk

400
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,480
about is from the Philippines. There is a particular like

401
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:52,000
liturgical addition to the Novas Ordo which is specifically for Filipinos,

402
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,839
So it has Filipino hymnals in it, stuff like that.

403
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,200
And so I think the way that a lot of

404
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,319
the Italian progressive or otherwise view the traditional Latin Mass

405
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,200
is an ethnic liturgy in the same way that.

406
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:13,039
Speaker 1: The American Filipino and do Americans just see it as reactionary.

407
00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:16,759
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I can't say that about all Americans, but

408
00:29:16,839 --> 00:29:20,119
it's pretty clear. I think to everybody that the Latin Mass,

409
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,720
the Latin Mass is an environment, not as a mass.

410
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,200
The mass is perfectly good. The Latin Mass is an

411
00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:28,960
environment attracts people who are basically on their way to

412
00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:31,839
leaving the church. And there's a lot of people in

413
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,920
the Latin Mass who are not interested in anything like that,

414
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,839
of course, but it is a pipeline in the same

415
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,640
way there's like online you know, converts to Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

416
00:29:41,839 --> 00:29:44,480
There's a particular kind of culture that's not the same

417
00:29:44,519 --> 00:29:48,160
as what's expressed on the ground or in the churches.

418
00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:51,960
It's very much the same kind of situation. So I

419
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,400
don't think that I think in America when you when

420
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,839
an American says I go to traditional Latin Mass, it

421
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:04,079
means I don't approve of the Holy See. I don't

422
00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:06,680
approve the way the Holy Sea is going. And this

423
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,279
mass is an expression of a kind of authenticity I

424
00:30:09,319 --> 00:30:12,279
feel I can't get from the Novus Ordo, which true

425
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,720
or otherwise. The Holy See looks at that and kind

426
00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:20,000
of realizes that this is a schism in the making

427
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,279
and I'm not going to say it's fair, because it's

428
00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:25,000
not fair because when you look at the synod on sinidality,

429
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,160
when you look at the German Sonoda way, the kinds

430
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,680
of things that the Germans have done in opposition to

431
00:30:31,839 --> 00:30:37,400
the Holy See are dramatically more bold and dramatically more

432
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,640
arrogant than what American traditionalists have said and done. But

433
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,039
that's just the way the cookie crumbles right now. I'm

434
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:48,559
just trying to explain what the relationship is. It's not

435
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:49,799
to say I like it.

436
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: Okay, go on, all.

437
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,319
Speaker 3: Right, Next guy, Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagel. I think it's Tagel,

438
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,160
I don't know, from the Philippines. A video is going

439
00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:10,000
around of him singing John Legend's Imagine to defend the guy.

440
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: I'll defend John Legend or John Lennon.

441
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 3: John Lennon, John Lennon. He was singing Imagine to karaoke,

442
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,599
but it was apparently a version of the song that

443
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,640
didn't have any of the bad references towards how you know,

444
00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:31,720
Heaven's not real. It was just kind of the chorus

445
00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:38,079
or something is modified. And also he is Filipino, so

446
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,880
you kind of expect them to do karaoke, so it

447
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:47,160
may just be a different kind of thing. Anyway, He's

448
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,799
the most prominent Asian prelate, at least in the Francis block.

449
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:55,680
I would say Cardinal Zen is also a prominence, but

450
00:31:55,799 --> 00:31:59,079
maybe we'll talk about him in the next set. Not

451
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:01,440
not because of him, but he's got a relationship to

452
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,920
my third choice. But before we get to him. Tagel

453
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,960
is often called the Asian Francis. So you have Francis

454
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,720
too in Zupie, and you have the Asian Francis in Tagel.

455
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,039
He is firmly progressive, though not as much as Zupi.

456
00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:23,400
In my study, Vatigan two inspired very dilogical, mercy centric

457
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:29,960
pastoral style, has a very inculturated liturgy. I can't even

458
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,720
begin to pronounce what it's called, but I described it already.

459
00:32:33,759 --> 00:32:37,759
He's never done a Latin Mass. He does this inculturated

460
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,240
liturgy that is the novas Orto. But it has Filipino

461
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:45,000
elements to it. Nothing like folk religious or anything like that.

462
00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:49,279
Just again hymns the language. Stuff like that. As far

463
00:32:49,319 --> 00:32:52,799
as politics and diplomacy go, no big surprise. Huge advocate

464
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:58,680
for migrants refugees scolded Europe numerous times, which is totally

465
00:32:58,759 --> 00:33:01,240
in line with what all of them do, aligns with

466
00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:06,279
that global liberal agenda on climate change and world poverty.

467
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:11,160
And he was involved in the Vatican China relations deal,

468
00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:15,559
which was very controversial. I'll talk about that soon. So

469
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,599
he's socially, I would say he's more conservative than Zoopi,

470
00:33:19,279 --> 00:33:26,839
but pastorally he's very gentle. So he's for instance, he's

471
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,599
lamented about the harsh language that people have towards homosexuals.

472
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,559
He is a very strong proponent for cinidality in general,

473
00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:41,000
stronger than Francis was, I think. And he's had a

474
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,319
lot of inter religious dialogue, especially with Islam and in

475
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:50,000
the Philippines obviously they have a big problem with Islamic terrorism,

476
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,599
and he's had a unpredictably I thought he would have

477
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:56,240
a strong opinion on it, but he's had an unpredictably

478
00:33:56,319 --> 00:34:02,880
weak public opinion on Islamic terror and the potential for

479
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,000
it in the Islamic community. So I'm surprised by that

480
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,000
this guy. So basically his benefit is that he's Francis

481
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,599
but Asian. So the cardinalship really is going to be

482
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:17,400
determining between Zoope and Tagel. Do they want Francis or

483
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,599
do they want Asian Francis, and out of those two,

484
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:25,320
I'm leaning they want Francis to not Asian Francis. I mean,

485
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,920
the Asian block is not the smallest block, but the

486
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,559
Latin Americans will probably vote for a European and probably

487
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,320
the Africans will too, if I had to guess anyway,

488
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:46,199
that's Tagel. Tagel would be a clear sign that the

489
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,639
Church has fully turned its gaze towards the global South,

490
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,719
which has been in the works for about eighty years now,

491
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,639
so it wouldn't be too unexpected if it ended up happening. Anyway,

492
00:34:57,679 --> 00:34:58,280
That's Tagel.

493
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 2: Who do we have next?

494
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:12,559
Speaker 3: We have Paroline, Cardinal Pietro Paroline. This is the elite

495
00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:16,760
theory pick in my opinion. He is a career Vatican diplomat.

496
00:35:17,519 --> 00:35:20,440
He was the secret the Secretary of State under the Pope.

497
00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:24,679
He was in the Pope's Council. The Pope Francis created

498
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,199
a Council of Cardinals. His Inner nine Paroline is the

499
00:35:28,199 --> 00:35:32,679
most recent addition to it. He's of the Right Age.

500
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:38,880
I think he's seventy doctrinally fairly orthodox, but very wary

501
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,880
of the Latin mass in America. Basically very similar to

502
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,360
Francis' opinion of the Latin Mass in America, which is

503
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,199
the opinion I expressed already. He was the chief architect

504
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,960
of the very controversial Vatican China deal. Have you do

505
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,760
you do you know about the Vatican China Deal?

506
00:35:55,519 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: No, I don't explain it to everyone.

507
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 3: Do you know about the the investitures of the investiture

508
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,079
crisis is something that happened in Europe and it was

509
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:09,639
basically the appointment of bishops by the state before the

510
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:12,639
approval of the Church. So that's going on in China.

511
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,800
It's going on in China like every day. They're doing

512
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,199
this every day. They just I think they just brought

513
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,480
six more bishops in since France's past, so they are

514
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,880
The Chinese are predictably really testing the boundaries because they

515
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,280
know they have all the leverage, which is why a

516
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,159
lot of people view Parolene's Vatican deal as a total

517
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,719
failure because it doesn't really there's no real bargaining chips

518
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,760
on the part of the Vatican and the Cardinal Zen,

519
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,559
who I think will be a saint. But by the

520
00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:46,599
time all things are said and done, Cardinals Zen a

521
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,639
Hong Kong cardinal. He's currently still under arrest for challenging

522
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:58,800
the Chinese Communist Party and protecting Chinese Catholics. They just

523
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,119
let him out on bail so he could participate in

524
00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:04,159
this whole thing, And it's just sad to see the

525
00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:06,800
guy hobbling along with his cane. This true hero of

526
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,599
the church and the guy that opposed him greatly is

527
00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:12,400
probably going to be the guy who's the next pope,

528
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,599
which is Parolin. Now that's Paroline's done a lot of

529
00:37:15,679 --> 00:37:20,320
really great diplomatic acts in the past for the Church.

530
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,360
US Cuba was a huge success for him, but the

531
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,320
China thing is really a black stain. I think it

532
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,559
was a terrible deal. I think it's something that he

533
00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:31,000
needs to walk back. I don't know if he will,

534
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,400
but luckily he is firmly pro life, pro traditional marriage.

535
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,840
He called the Irish vote for to make legal homosexual

536
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,039
marriages a defeat for humanity. He's fully supportive of Francis's

537
00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:49,199
line on communion for the divorced and remarried. It's a

538
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,320
very similar line, which is to say, there's a lot

539
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,039
of paperwork that has to be done and nullments have

540
00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:56,360
to be done. It's a lot less liberal than some

541
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,000
of the more progressive opinions on this. He has a

542
00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:05,360
very diplomatic dialogue style overall totally unmatched in terms of

543
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,199
governance experience. He knows the Curia very well, probably the

544
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:15,119
only cardinal who everybody knows him personally within the College.

545
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,639
He's also Italian, which is great for that cardinalship, and

546
00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:25,199
he's politically fairly neutral. I think this would be the

547
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,920
most likely election. Again, if you're an elite theorist, you

548
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,639
can see why. I mean, this is the guy with

549
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:38,039
the power even during Francis's papacy. Obviously Francis at any

550
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:41,039
time could lift a finger and say stop, and Parolene

551
00:38:41,079 --> 00:38:45,400
had to stop. But Paroline was really the gray eminence

552
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:49,920
of the last papacy, knows everybody, has a lot of power,

553
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,519
pulls a lot of strings behind the scene, never really

554
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:56,760
upsets very many people besides Cardinals Zen and the Chinese Catholics.

555
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,960
So I think this is the safest bet is Paralleine

556
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:05,920
and now, really those are the top three, Pete, those

557
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,760
are the top three. I think Paroline will get elected

558
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,000
not because he controls the largest block, but I think

559
00:39:14,039 --> 00:39:17,320
he'll get elected because he will split the Francis block.

560
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,880
When Francis and the Francis Block is trying to choose

561
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,239
between Zoopy and Tagel, which is basically Italians versus the

562
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,320
global South voting in there. I don't think either of

563
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,000
them will be able to shift any of the Conservatives

564
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,679
or any of Paroline's centrist voters, and eventually they're just

565
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,280
going to have to fall in line to a kind

566
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,440
of compromise candidate, which will be paralleine. That is my analysis.

567
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,000
Obviously I could totally be wrong, we could be totally surprised,

568
00:39:44,039 --> 00:39:47,000
but that is the bulk of it. Now. We could

569
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,840
talk about the other options, but I just want to

570
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,480
get your thoughts on it first.

571
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean it's all politics.

572
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one hundred percent politics.

573
00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

574
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 1: So the you know, the person who, and this is

575
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,000
almost what at this point, it's more like a caucus

576
00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:07,800
in an election.

577
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,159
Speaker 3: Well there are blocks, Yeah, there are ideological blocks.

578
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: So whoever can get the blocks to collapse into each other,

579
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,239
they get what they want.

580
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, And unlike in a democratic system where there is

581
00:40:26,159 --> 00:40:29,320
at least that facade that comes in terms of you know,

582
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:34,480
a democratic vote, the guy who, it's still a popularity contest,

583
00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:37,079
but it's because it's so much smaller. The guy who

584
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:40,039
can kind of whip everybody into voting, which I think

585
00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:43,519
is Parallene. He's going to be the guy, and I

586
00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:45,239
think they look at his age and they go, you

587
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,519
know what, he might only be around for another eight

588
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:50,360
to ten years. So it's good enough for us to

589
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:56,800
kind of stabilize after Francis's transformative regime, to kind of

590
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,400
have a guy who will kind of carry things on

591
00:40:58,519 --> 00:41:02,039
slowly get the church out of the news. Honestly, as

592
00:41:02,039 --> 00:41:05,679
a Catholic in terms of what is possible, I think

593
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,719
Parolene is our best chance because I kind of agree

594
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,320
we kind of have to get out of the news.

595
00:41:11,639 --> 00:41:13,599
We really have to get out of the news. And

596
00:41:13,639 --> 00:41:17,719
the Catholic Church in America has to go on unopposed

597
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,920
and needs to pick up the slack because the Holy

598
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,639
See is not interested in it. And I think that's

599
00:41:22,639 --> 00:41:26,480
how we have to move forward.

600
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's not going to be I mean,

601
00:41:31,199 --> 00:41:35,000
there could be by divine intervention, there could be a

602
00:41:35,039 --> 00:41:40,320
revolutionary kind of you know, move of some sort, but

603
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,719
it just doesn't seem like that's what's going to happen.

604
00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:48,920
You know, as as we get closer to the end

605
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:55,440
of an age and we're starting another age than basically

606
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,960
everything sick, everything is weakened. And you know, you could

607
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,360
see that I'm pretty much every church is, you know.

608
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,800
And I love my Orthodox friends, but even they even

609
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,880
they have to admit the church they go to is

610
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,840
the base church because they all know an Orthodox church

611
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,480
it's not based, you know, And they all know that

612
00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:18,960
the I forget what they call their guy in Chicago

613
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,000
was running and telling everybody to get the jab, you know,

614
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:26,440
in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. So yeah, all

615
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,440
all of these churches are sick at this point, and

616
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:35,679
it's just going to take a radical kind of move,

617
00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:40,960
a radical kind of shift in consciousness in order for

618
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:47,199
this to take take on a more traditional bent, or

619
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,360
it's going to evolve into something completely different.

620
00:42:52,679 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it could be either. It's it's we are the

621
00:42:58,119 --> 00:43:00,519
churches in this this period of time that the church

622
00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:06,360
is in right now is very progressive, and the church

623
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,719
will come out of it and will become very conservative again,

624
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,679
and then it will probably oscillate as it has throughout history.

625
00:43:12,679 --> 00:43:15,400
It will continue too. And I think that's the main

626
00:43:15,519 --> 00:43:17,360
point for a lot of Catholics. You have to remember,

627
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,119
is that you exist in a very short period of

628
00:43:20,119 --> 00:43:24,719
time and of church's very long history. There is a

629
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,519
cosmic trust the plan to a lot of this, but

630
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:29,280
it doesn't mean you have to be satisfied with any

631
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,440
of it. I have to say I'm really not particularly

632
00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:35,119
satisfied with any of the possible options. You know, there's

633
00:43:35,159 --> 00:43:38,079
also a Cardinal Peter Erdo. I think that's how you

634
00:43:38,119 --> 00:43:42,119
pronounce it, my Hungarian friends, I'm probably got that wrong,

635
00:43:42,199 --> 00:43:46,199
so I forgive me. But you know, he's considered the

636
00:43:47,199 --> 00:43:52,159
most theologically conservative, and by that people mean that he

637
00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:58,440
has Benedict the sixteenth theology, which is not particularly conservative.

638
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:02,519
So I think he's being propped up as the conservative option,

639
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,000
and I just don't even I don't even see that there.

640
00:44:06,039 --> 00:44:08,239
So I see a lot of people winding themselves up

641
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,559
into thinking that a theological conservative has an opportunity here,

642
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:15,320
and I just I think that's kind of you're just

643
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,000
winding yourself up for nothing.

644
00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:22,599
Speaker 2: You there, d E Yeah, I am.

645
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,559
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, great time for you to to step in

646
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,199
bird dark Enlightenment and you can call them d D Bird.

647
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 3: Oh, nice to meet you.

648
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 2: I love the show timely that is one of my favorites.

649
00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,119
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, hell yeah.

650
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 2: It's precisely as serious as our times deserve.

651
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad this one, as we've done it so far,

652
00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:52,280
didn't go too serious. It's I kind of realized halfway

653
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,719
through doing the research for this there was a kind of, uh,

654
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,480
it's so over feeling as I got further and further

655
00:45:01,519 --> 00:45:04,159
into the list of them. Yeah.

656
00:45:04,159 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 2: I talked to him briefly on my show.

657
00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 3: And who did you have? Who were your the ones

658
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:11,480
you covered?

659
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:19,599
Speaker 2: Tagley? Of course, Prolyn the Muller's not that great. I mean,

660
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,360
you know, like this is the thing that people need

661
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,480
to understand is is the whole institution is rotten from

662
00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:32,280
top to bottom with people who who think that you know,

663
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,159
like like yesterday's radicals are somehow these arch conservatives. It's

664
00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:41,159
like no, no, Like Bennedic sixteenth was a parade at

665
00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:45,960
the Council in a suit and tie. You know, Mueller talk.

666
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 3: I like Benedict, but there's a lot of myth making

667
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,840
about that, a lot of fond looking back as though

668
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,199
it wasn't an extension of John Paul the.

669
00:45:54,159 --> 00:45:58,760
Speaker 2: Second Right, And and you know, Benedict talked about the

670
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,000
abuse crisis, but he didn't do Anything's head of CDF right,

671
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:05,239
like you know, like who made macer a cardinal jump

672
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,239
all the second? Who made Brigoglio cardinal jump all the second? Who?

673
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:13,239
You know, like the the entire and too you know,

674
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:19,280
state my position. I'm I'm firmly convinced that that Brigoglia

675
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,079
was never a pope. That either either between the invalidity

676
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:30,440
of of Benedict's resignation and or the canvassing ahead of

677
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,679
time per University of Domini gregis by jump all the

678
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:41,280
second occurring excommunications for all people involved, like somehow Brigolia

679
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,920
was never a pulp. I'm not a nineteen fifty eight

680
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,920
said a contest. I have some sympathies in that direction,

681
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:52,599
but the idea that like Perilin is like somehow or

682
00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:54,920
zoopis like Catholic and we need to respect that. And

683
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,320
then like no, these guys like they put it on

684
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,079
my own show, Like if you think women deacons are okay,

685
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,760
you're not in a position to be pulp because you're

686
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,000
not Catholic. You're not even really.

687
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 3: Yes that that was explicitly Zoopi's possession.

688
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 2: Right right, which is why I brought him up real

689
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,400
likely and you can go into and you know, like

690
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,599
Turksan's not that great, right.

691
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:23,159
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I have Turks in here as my fifth

692
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,400
most likely. I think he's like the weird candidate if

693
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:27,840
there's something weird goes.

694
00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:32,639
Speaker 2: On, right, you know, Toggley is sitting there like in

695
00:47:32,679 --> 00:47:33,800
a golf shirt singing.

696
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 3: Imagine yeah yeah, like what did I say.

697
00:47:39,079 --> 00:47:39,119
Speaker 2: That?

698
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:40,639
Speaker 3: When it is brutal, like.

699
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 2: You know, oh my gosh, like to have some self respect, Matt,

700
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,199
you know, and there's just not It's.

701
00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 3: What Filipinos do. They like karaoke though, That's what.

702
00:47:55,159 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 2: And I understand that as a Filipino, he's genetically uh

703
00:47:59,159 --> 00:47:59,880
loves karaoke.

704
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 3: They love karaoke, Yeah, they love it.

705
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. But you know, like you're a cardinal prince of

706
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:10,519
the church, like I am absolutely absolutely certain that you know,

707
00:48:10,559 --> 00:48:15,719
whoever rents karaoke machines can be told, Hey, the cardinal

708
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,480
Archbishop of Manila wants a karaoke machine. Take the job,

709
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:28,960
and he'd like when installed in his episcopal palace. Don't

710
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,480
tell anybody, and here's an extra thousand bucks for you, Like,

711
00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:35,119
just have some sense of self respect as opposed to

712
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:37,960
like showing him a Gulf shirt and doing like your

713
00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:47,320
best like uh, like early, what was that show where

714
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:52,039
all the singing was terrible to start, like a American idol, Yeah, America,

715
00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:55,400
like your best American idol impression, Like right, just no

716
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,039
self respect. It's just like, you know, I don't I

717
00:48:58,039 --> 00:49:00,519
don't like do things I'm really bad at in public

718
00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:03,960
republic assumption because I have enough self respect for my

719
00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:06,719
for myself and others that I that I don't like

720
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,079
deliberately go and make a fool myself just because it

721
00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:12,800
would be funny, you know, So.

722
00:49:13,159 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 3: It is it is worth mentioning. I forgot. I neglected

723
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,960
to say this in uh going through the five who

724
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,719
I chose, but none of them I think they are

725
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,639
all secular priests. I don't think any of them are

726
00:49:25,679 --> 00:49:30,400
a part of any religious orders. But uh, Tagel, how

727
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:35,840
are you saying it? That's what I thought, Yeah, okay,

728
00:49:36,159 --> 00:49:40,000
Uh tog Ley, it was educated by Jesuits, and I

729
00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:41,800
knew that, and I kind of had the sense of

730
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,519
that when I saw the golf shirt, I was like,

731
00:49:44,599 --> 00:49:47,119
that has to be there has to be some Jesuit

732
00:49:47,159 --> 00:49:48,639
influence in there, and indeed it is.

733
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: It's yeah, of course, right, because because that's how you

734
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,360
really know someone serious with the faith is that they

735
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:59,119
that they try to be pastor Bob with the golf shirt.

736
00:49:59,199 --> 00:50:02,079
It's like, no, actually, I'd rather you just wore a

737
00:50:02,159 --> 00:50:07,440
cassock and like, I don't want you to be my.

738
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,119
Speaker 3: Buddy Jesuits love those golf shirts. I don't know where

739
00:50:11,159 --> 00:50:14,920
that comes from. They really do. That's their leisure where.

740
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, very strange, It is very strange. Like I think

741
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:22,519
you're right, I don't. I don't think it's possible that

742
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:28,119
there's this you know, we're oh, just we're one second

743
00:50:28,119 --> 00:50:30,599
away from you know, like a Benedict the seventeenth or

744
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,000
you know, God forbid, like a Leo the or a

745
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:37,480
pie Is the fourteenth or something like that. That's not

746
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:39,400
happening right now?

747
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 3: Is it what we need?

748
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:46,079
Speaker 2: Yes? Is is there? Right? The only place of the

749
00:50:46,119 --> 00:50:49,320
church is growing, right is the traditionalist movement, because that's

750
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,639
if you think about it for any length of time,

751
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:57,440
like more than ten minutes. Right, the whole premise of

752
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,599
liberalism qua liberalism is a rejection of the Catholic Church,

753
00:51:02,679 --> 00:51:07,599
whether it's Rousseau or John Locke or any of these people. Right,

754
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,039
the heart of liberalism is a rejection of the Church.

755
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,360
And so you can't like combine matter and antimatter and hope

756
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:23,159
that it like all works out. You just can't. And

757
00:51:23,199 --> 00:51:29,719
the sooner people realize this that the more you know, viable,

758
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,920
the church is going to be, you know, Benefice the

759
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,840
sixteenth was not wrong when he said, like the church

760
00:51:35,519 --> 00:51:39,960
is going to shrink, because even you know in America,

761
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:45,239
where things are supposedly you know, the most conservative you know,

762
00:51:45,639 --> 00:51:51,079
church going country in the traditional West. Yeah, the majority

763
00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:55,159
of people like who are in Catholic pies are pro

764
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,199
game marriage quote unquote right like they're they're pro there.

765
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:03,559
They don't believe in the presence in the Eucharist. They have

766
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,320
basically christological errors, levels of understanding of the creed.

767
00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the and the American churches is happy to

768
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:15,000
kind of write instruct people to not ask questions like

769
00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:18,559
that and write like you can have your strange beliefs,

770
00:52:18,639 --> 00:52:20,400
just just get you into the church. Don't tell them.

771
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 2: Don't even tell me, right, or like Australia, you know,

772
00:52:25,519 --> 00:52:29,880
like they threw pelle and jail over nonsense, right like

773
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:34,119
they threw right you know. So so it's the oh,

774
00:52:34,199 --> 00:52:36,840
these other these other countries are going to be you know,

775
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:47,480
pro more pro Christian, Like, no, no, they're not. They're

776
00:52:47,559 --> 00:52:53,639
just not it's it's not going to happen, and the

777
00:52:53,639 --> 00:52:56,039
the oh, the third world is going to say this,

778
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:02,559
like they they're worse off. They're so syncretist, they're barely

779
00:53:02,639 --> 00:53:09,480
even Christians in many cases. You know, the African bishops

780
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,239
will be like, we're not doing producer supergans because queers.

781
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,559
But also we need to revisit the whole polygamy question, like.

782
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:21,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Well it's almost seems like cinidelity

783
00:53:21,679 --> 00:53:22,280
is assured.

784
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and and well, I mean truth be told, right,

785
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,599
if sinidelity is the thing, why not just have national

786
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:34,760
churches and be orthodox. I mean, I mean, like obviously

787
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,679
I'm not but and I'm not going to but but

788
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,280
like you just destroyed any argument for like the primacy

789
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,159
of Peter and the one Church, and you know, like

790
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:45,199
you just.

791
00:53:45,199 --> 00:53:49,039
Speaker 3: Not Well, it's another reason why I think Paroline has

792
00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:50,960
a good chance, as that kind of thing would be

793
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,480
totally detrimental to the power structure of the church. And

794
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:58,079
I do just see Paroline as being that option. I mean,

795
00:53:58,119 --> 00:54:02,360
he's very much against the snideality thing, whereas Toglay is

796
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,440
very much in favor of it. I believe Zoopi is too,

797
00:54:04,519 --> 00:54:10,519
So I know the Francis Block has indicated support for

798
00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:17,039
some level of sinidality, but I imagine that there's going

799
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:18,800
to be something to pull back otherwise. I think that

800
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,760
question you just asked is what every Catholic is, certainly

801
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,760
in America, is going to have to ask themselves, is like,

802
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:26,840
what really what is the difference here? Then?

803
00:54:27,559 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? I mean, like if you're going to ban

804
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:35,880
the liturgy that actually says like, hey, we believe this

805
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,519
stuff and we want our children to believe it, and

806
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,800
like this is not just you know, father Bob playing

807
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,639
his guitar. If you're going to ban the Old Mass,

808
00:54:50,039 --> 00:54:51,800
and then you're going to say, well, the structure of

809
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,719
that you're is wrong, and you're not gonna like you

810
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,639
you're not, and you're going to go after people who

811
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:01,719
actually try and do what the Shu teaches, like why

812
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:03,119
are you here still?

813
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:05,079
Speaker 3: Right? You know?

814
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 2: And and that's the that's ultimately the choice. Right. And unfortunately,

815
00:55:12,679 --> 00:55:16,880
because conservatives you know or well who was a great

816
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,079
writer in many ways, right, if there's hope that lies

817
00:55:19,119 --> 00:55:22,280
in the proles, no, conservatives have no revolution or potential

818
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,440
at all. They'll just like keep eating shit because the

819
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:30,840
institution told them to, because they they they have. They

820
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:35,280
don't think hard. Like if they're told like Mass is

821
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,920
this good thing that's going to be high culture, they'll

822
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,159
be like okay. If they're told like Mass is going

823
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,360
to be these you know, guitar stuff, they'll be like okay,

824
00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:47,480
and they'll just go along. Look at look at you,

825
00:55:47,639 --> 00:55:51,760
look at twenty twenty, like like they just yeah, we're

826
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,880
gonna blatantly steal the election and lock you all inside.

827
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,960
Your house is over like a bad cold that we

828
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:02,360
put right. Oh okay, yeah, I guess, uh that's that's fine. Yeah,

829
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,079
So how how are these people going to you know,

830
00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:09,159
like actually save anything. They just went along with the

831
00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:13,800
destruction of the church. You know, baptismince down ninety marriage

832
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:19,079
is down ninety percent. You know, like, show me when

833
00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:21,480
indication in the church outside of the traditionalist movement that's

834
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,960
actually going places.

835
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 3: It's just not I really do think that the church

836
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,800
has turned its size away from the West for I mean,

837
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,320
for better or worse. That it's it's just turned its

838
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,639
eyes totally away from the West. I mean you agree with.

839
00:56:36,599 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 2: That, yeah, oh of course, yeah.

840
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:40,760
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I mean in the sense that it's

841
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,679
not just that things are ineffective in the United States.

842
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,360
Things are going very well in other countries and other

843
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,639
regions in Africa, the spread of the faith is going

844
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,039
very well. So I don't I just don't, you know

845
00:56:54,119 --> 00:56:57,639
what I mean, I don't understand why the church has

846
00:56:57,639 --> 00:57:00,280
turned its sides away from the West. Is it the

847
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,679
problems that we have just can't be confronted. Is Americanism

848
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:08,039
so deeply entrenched they just are willing to build up

849
00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:10,960
to a schism. I don't what do you think?

850
00:57:11,679 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 2: I think that there's been a defactive schism for at

851
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,079
least twenty years, Like the amount of time, like I

852
00:57:18,239 --> 00:57:21,000
was deeply deeply involved in many you know, like pro

853
00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:24,960
JP two things, and the amount of American bishops who

854
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,000
just was like, yeah, that's nice, but you know, we're

855
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,480
going to be we're going to be pro contraception in

856
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,320
this diocese, or we're going to be pro abortion in

857
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,360
this diocese, or we're going to be you know, communists

858
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:42,519
or whatever. So that's just how it goes, you know.

859
00:57:44,039 --> 00:57:48,480
I think that I think that the church thinks that

860
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:55,559
without that, like there's this tension that they can hold

861
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:58,559
on to, that they can hold onto both wings be

862
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,039
you know, for lack of a bet from the apostate

863
00:58:01,119 --> 00:58:04,719
left wing and the and the you know, genuine believer

864
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,039
wing in the West, and that they'll continue to fund

865
00:58:08,079 --> 00:58:12,840
things and that they'll have this upswell of believers from

866
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,880
the Third world. But you know, Brazil used to be

867
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,800
the biggest Catholic country in the world in terms of.

868
00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:23,039
Speaker 3: Population, and it's not anymore.

869
00:58:23,719 --> 00:58:27,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, because frankly, you know, their worlds are kind

870
00:58:27,519 --> 00:58:32,519
of stupid, and the Catholic theology is complicated, and when

871
00:58:32,519 --> 00:58:36,039
they're told, you know, like that Islam is growing fast

872
00:58:36,039 --> 00:58:39,320
in those countries, you know, low church Protestantism, which is

873
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,119
frankly kind of stupid. I mean, Pete will tell you

874
00:58:42,199 --> 00:58:42,760
all about it.

875
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:47,159
Speaker 1: Look getting me in trouble.

876
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,119
Speaker 3: Well, I think that, yeah, I think that's I mean,

877
00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:54,840
that's kind of built into the system as there's going

878
00:58:54,880 --> 00:59:00,519
to be some kind of low church proliferation. That's and

879
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:05,039
really that's not even my personal concern. You know, it's

880
00:59:05,039 --> 00:59:07,239
not good for the church, but it's not really even

881
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,519
my personal concern. I just sort of wonder because we

882
00:59:11,559 --> 00:59:14,960
have an we have our quote unquote national Church in

883
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,320
the United States, we have our bishops, we have our archbishops.

884
00:59:19,719 --> 00:59:21,639
I think the eye the eyes have to turn back

885
00:59:21,679 --> 00:59:25,440
towards that. I think as far as the Holy Sea goes,

886
00:59:25,639 --> 00:59:27,039
this is going to be like this. I was telling

887
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:29,239
people for like, this could be the one hundred years

888
00:59:29,639 --> 00:59:33,320
of this style before there's any significant change in the

889
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,280
move away from pastoralism or anything of the sort of.

890
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:38,880
And this could be one hundred years. So it doesn't

891
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:44,239
even seem like there's a great reason to Oh yeah, well,

892
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,360
can I say engage with the Holy see you know

893
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,760
what I mean? No, not not to not to stand

894
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:55,480
in opposition to it, but you know it's you're not excommunicated,

895
00:59:55,599 --> 00:59:59,920
you're not in penalty of sin. Go do your sack

896
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,840
and be the best Catholic you cannot. I think the

897
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,960
promise is still there for the individual, but so as

898
01:00:06,039 --> 01:00:08,880
to not scandalize anybody away from the church. But the

899
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,679
challenges to the structure of the church are there. They're

900
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,679
very real, and they are there, and so coordination will suffer.

901
01:00:15,719 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, And I think that the most important thing

902
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,719
people can do is just I mean it doubled down on.

903
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,079
I was not around for the for how bad things

904
01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:28,280
got in the seventies and eighties in the trad move

905
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,920
right like where there we are, you know, masses in

906
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,920
hotel ballrooms and that kind of thing. I got to

907
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,480
know some of those people as I as I got

908
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:40,480
older that I've talked to them, and we're just going

909
01:00:40,559 --> 01:00:43,719
to have to build for the long haul outside of it.

910
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,400
And that just that sounds like a really non Catholic

911
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,119
thing to say. But if you if you want to

912
01:00:51,159 --> 01:00:53,400
preserve it the faith, which is the most important thing,

913
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,199
right the first law of the church's salvation of souls.

914
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,599
If you want to actually save souls, if you want

915
01:00:58,599 --> 01:01:02,840
to actually you know, take the baptism promises you make

916
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,440
when your children are baptized. Seriously, you're going to have

917
01:01:06,559 --> 01:01:08,880
to do what people are doing now. You're going to

918
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,920
have to homeschool them, educate them out outside of the parish.

919
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:16,719
You know CCD program where people will tell you that

920
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:19,000
women priests are coming in a day and they're okay,

921
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:20,800
and you know, it's.

922
01:01:20,599 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 3: Just plenty of good homeschool curriculums approved by the Holy See,

923
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,239
by the way, and I mean they are good, solid,

924
01:01:26,679 --> 01:01:28,480
yeah curriculums.

925
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to use those. And you're going

926
01:01:31,119 --> 01:01:33,320
to have to you know, you're going to have to

927
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:38,440
be wherever you choose to hang your hat ecclesiastically, whether

928
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:42,599
it's look at diasis in parish or local adult mass

929
01:01:42,639 --> 01:01:44,920
or with society or whatever, You're going to have to

930
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,960
be very deliberate about where and how you go about

931
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,800
saving your soul. And you just aren't gonna be able

932
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,599
to count on anybody in a pointing hat because the

933
01:01:54,599 --> 01:01:59,320
guy in the pointing hat cares about not getting heat

934
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:05,119
from Rome, cares about you know, getting his government checks,

935
01:02:07,079 --> 01:02:11,000
or you know, actively just doesn't care. Because in nineteen

936
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,320
seventy eight, if you wanted to be a man in

937
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:16,679
address and saying Broadway show tunes and dressed fabulous, you

938
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,920
had to enter the you know that priesthood. And so

939
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:24,920
that's that's what happened. Right now we can say that

940
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:30,159
those guys are getting old now, but you know, all

941
01:02:30,159 --> 01:02:33,679
these j JP two types thought that, you know, the

942
01:02:33,679 --> 01:02:37,360
biological soution was imminent and no, no, look at what

943
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:44,199
happened with Francis, Like, there are way more of the

944
01:02:44,199 --> 01:02:50,360
the people who are more pro liberalism in the church

945
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,360
than you thought. And even the people that you thought

946
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,920
are conservative aren't all that conservative. Look a look at

947
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,960
the Showanborn for instance, right, he was the editor of

948
01:02:59,079 --> 01:03:04,800
the Better than Any four Catechism, and you know, he's

949
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:07,960
like just a liberal company man now, right, because that's

950
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,760
what he always was. Because Jompo the second was a

951
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,400
modern conservative, you know, who tried to try to move

952
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,719
the council. Uh and and so he wrote that, I

953
01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:17,039
don't know.

954
01:03:17,079 --> 01:03:21,599
Speaker 3: I think at an individual level, you've got to uh,

955
01:03:21,639 --> 01:03:24,360
you've got you've got to I don't know. I here,

956
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,119
So I'll put it this way. I don't think that

957
01:03:28,239 --> 01:03:32,440
this kind of trend is inevitable. I think this is

958
01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:36,000
very much an element of the culture war, and that

959
01:03:36,119 --> 01:03:40,199
at some point it will change, totally change. But I

960
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,199
I I don't know how you feel about that.

961
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 2: I think I think if it changed, changes because there's

962
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:49,360
just no more culture where to fight, and it will

963
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:54,159
be obvious that that, you know, conservatives decisively lost, right.

964
01:03:54,199 --> 01:04:05,000
I mean that's yeah, that's just not right. You have

965
01:04:05,039 --> 01:04:08,639
to fight it in order for it to or you

966
01:04:08,679 --> 01:04:10,480
have to understand that you're actually going to fight in

967
01:04:10,599 --> 01:04:13,400
order for the cultural word a thing to be real.

968
01:04:13,639 --> 01:04:18,280
And for the vast majority of you know, so called

969
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:23,599
right wing Catholics they don't even understand that like that,

970
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:29,880
you know, Joseph Tobin does not care if your children

971
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:33,599
go to hell or not. Like he just doesn't nighty night,

972
01:04:33,679 --> 01:04:37,280
baby Tobin does not care if your children pass on

973
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:42,760
the faith to your grandchildren. Right, These are not these

974
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:50,360
are not people that are going to really really go

975
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,360
to the mat to try and save a Christian culture

976
01:04:53,400 --> 01:05:01,199
that they don't really believe in. And that describes of

977
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:09,559
the papability you talked about, right, Yeah, you know Zoopy

978
01:05:09,639 --> 01:05:26,360
at least Tagley at least you know who was uh

979
01:05:28,119 --> 01:05:35,599
uh not Ardo Perilyin, Right like Perilin hates the Latins.

980
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:40,920
He really doesn't care whether or not your your grandchildren

981
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,400
remain in the faith or not. Doesn't matter to him,

982
01:05:44,559 --> 01:05:50,400
right you know, then Victor Manuel Fernandez, the head of

983
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:54,199
the CDF, right the Holy Office, is not really super

984
01:05:54,199 --> 01:06:00,920
interested in whether or not your children remain Catholic because

985
01:06:01,159 --> 01:06:03,519
he helped draft the stuff that said all religious lead

986
01:06:03,519 --> 01:06:10,280
to God. So right, like, it's not something that most

987
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,440
of these guys care about. They care about meeting their budgets.

988
01:06:14,519 --> 01:06:19,679
And you know, political influence.

989
01:06:21,239 --> 01:06:29,039
Speaker 1: For the most part, you know, we talk about you know,

990
01:06:29,119 --> 01:06:32,239
Burnham wrote that boat the book The Managerial Revolution in

991
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,800
nineteen forty talking about managerialism. All you really needed to

992
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:37,920
do was study the church.

993
01:06:39,719 --> 01:06:43,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in fact, the real problem is is that

994
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:49,880
Vatican One didn't define I mean, if I define the

995
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,079
upper limits of people and falliability, but it didn't define

996
01:06:53,119 --> 01:06:59,280
the lower end of the envelope of papal authority. And

997
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:01,880
what it effective he did is turned every bishop into

998
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,599
a like McDonald's branch manager or franchise manager of the sacraments.

999
01:07:07,079 --> 01:07:09,199
I hate, I hate to put it that way, but

1000
01:07:09,199 --> 01:07:15,119
but realistically, right, if you can remove Strickland for wanting

1001
01:07:15,199 --> 01:07:19,440
to you know, out a genuine concern, right, you can

1002
01:07:19,639 --> 01:07:23,119
just remove him from his diocese, Well, then why is he,

1003
01:07:23,719 --> 01:07:27,079
like each bishop supreme in his own diocese? Right? Like

1004
01:07:27,159 --> 01:07:31,480
apparently not? Apparently he's just the branch manager for you

1005
01:07:31,519 --> 01:07:42,840
know so, And most people have to navigate this with

1006
01:07:43,119 --> 01:07:45,559
you know, granted, much less knowledge than bird is presented.

1007
01:07:45,599 --> 01:07:50,400
This is an outstanding document that the bird produced. No,

1008
01:07:50,639 --> 01:07:55,519
but but most of these prelates aren't really much interested

1009
01:07:55,559 --> 01:08:06,400
in whether or not, like your grandchildren, baptize their children

1010
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,400
or get married at all. Right, And that's increasingly the

1011
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,599
thing in the West, It's increasingly the thing all over

1012
01:08:12,639 --> 01:08:20,159
the place, right, creating fertility in all over Asia, creating

1013
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:25,159
fertility in Latin America, marriages are down. People just like it,

1014
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,560
just double down, double down on your little platoons. And

1015
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:37,319
you know, right because the the Francis part of the

1016
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:43,039
church just isn't having kids. Like you know, if if

1017
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:51,720
trans disabled lesbians with two dogs are like just as welcome,

1018
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:55,239
you know, if all are welcome in this place, then

1019
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:03,079
the people who really genuinely believe it and reject a

1020
01:09:03,079 --> 01:09:06,960
lot of this stuff and have you know, whether that's

1021
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,800
in the Siya ten through instead of country movements or whatever,

1022
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:12,840
they're the only people who are going to have a future,

1023
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:20,800
you know, the the African stuff. Right they might be

1024
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,560
having four or five, six, seven kids right now, but

1025
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,359
if you if you expose them to you know, contraception,

1026
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:33,560
buffalo wildlings in PlayStation, they're they're not going they're not

1027
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:37,159
going to keep doing the hard thing of like doing

1028
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:40,960
what the church teaches. They're just not because they haven't

1029
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:46,279
been catechized well enough to understand why it's a problem.

1030
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:51,399
You know, they have the rampant syncretism problem, you know,

1031
01:09:53,159 --> 01:10:01,520
and uh, they're they're just going to have a real

1032
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,159
problem in the future. And you know, for all that

1033
01:10:04,159 --> 01:10:06,359
that Africa might have lots of Catholics, they aren't gonna

1034
01:10:06,359 --> 01:10:10,680
have any money. And right now, you know the source

1035
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:16,239
of a source of money for the church is the

1036
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:18,079
United States and Germany.

1037
01:10:18,199 --> 01:10:20,199
Speaker 3: Basically, yes, I was gonna say a huge amount of

1038
01:10:20,199 --> 01:10:23,319
in Germany. That's the only reason why. Well, that's one

1039
01:10:23,319 --> 01:10:25,840
of the major reasons why the Sonoda way was tolerated

1040
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:29,000
to the extent that it was right so openly.

1041
01:10:30,159 --> 01:10:35,279
Speaker 2: Right. But not only is that like going away? I

1042
01:10:35,319 --> 01:10:39,720
mean in my mind, yeah, that's in my more cynical moments,

1043
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:41,319
I've described the U s c c B As a

1044
01:10:41,399 --> 01:10:45,840
property holding management company that has side sidelines in human

1045
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:53,159
trafficking and occasionally dispensing sacraments. But the reason that that's

1046
01:10:53,199 --> 01:11:01,800
just not gonna continue is if all the money is

1047
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:06,079
coming from, you know, places where the faith is dying,

1048
01:11:08,239 --> 01:11:11,239
maybe maybe, you know, a smaller, poor church might have

1049
01:11:11,279 --> 01:11:16,199
a future. But a church with you know, thirteen Italian

1050
01:11:16,239 --> 01:11:19,079
cardinals where every one of them has their own cardinal, archbishopric,

1051
01:11:19,239 --> 01:11:22,039
palace and all that other stuff like that's not happening. Man.

1052
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:30,560
Speaker 3: It's sad, right, right. It was better when it was

1053
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:36,479
led entirely by Italians. Except for one brief stint that

1054
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:37,199
I can think.

1055
01:11:37,039 --> 01:11:42,239
Speaker 2: Of, Yeah. Why why is everyone saying the future of

1056
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:44,439
the church is African? The past of the church is African?

1057
01:11:45,359 --> 01:11:52,359
Speaker 3: Right, all right? I saw that one going around on

1058
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:53,439
the time line a bunch.

1059
01:11:56,119 --> 01:12:00,399
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, of course, right, Like there's the Silians into

1060
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:01,800
the church. What do you need.

1061
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,359
Speaker 3: We've always been multicultural.

1062
01:12:08,079 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 2: What do you mean he's never been an African church.

1063
01:12:14,239 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 3: Pope Anthony was a Sicilian in the year three hundred

1064
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:23,399
and ten. Yeah, he was the first black pope exactly.

1065
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,680
Speaker 2: Just bands just fancy though, you know, I love you, Meds.

1066
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, I think about someone like

1067
01:12:34,079 --> 01:12:39,640
Pius the twelfth, who had to deal with the worst

1068
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:44,720
thing like the world has ever seen, and just how

1069
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:51,960
he could he didn't have to choose sides. He could

1070
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,479
just be who he could, just be who the Pope

1071
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:59,600
was supposed to be. And I mean that's what eighty

1072
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,680
years go. Yeah. Anyone who's ever read his letter to

1073
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:07,760
the Spanish people after the war, after the Spanish Civil

1074
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:09,760
War ends. If you can get through that without crying,

1075
01:13:10,119 --> 01:13:10,479
you're a.

1076
01:13:10,399 --> 01:13:14,319
Speaker 2: Better man than me. I cry every time, dude.

1077
01:13:15,119 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just goes to show that. Yeah, I was

1078
01:13:19,039 --> 01:13:23,840
saying this before you got on here. D Everything is

1079
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:30,079
just sick. Everything is diseased, everything is poisoned. And you know,

1080
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,760
there every one of us knows someone who's like, no,

1081
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:37,479
my church is based. I'm like, yeah, but a church

1082
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:40,520
it calls itself the same thing right down the road.

1083
01:13:41,079 --> 01:13:43,560
You have to you have to say your church is based.

1084
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:45,079
You have to if you want to talk about a

1085
01:13:45,119 --> 01:13:48,800
based church, you have to give an address. You know.

1086
01:13:49,119 --> 01:13:55,520
It's it's not like you're everything is sick at this point.

1087
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, everything is sick. And you know, like Periline

1088
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:03,239
is sitting here. You know, he said the Holy sequid

1089
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:06,039
quote continue to educate the population towards a positive view

1090
01:14:06,079 --> 01:14:09,039
of mirgareants unquote. Like he's saying that from behind a

1091
01:14:09,119 --> 01:14:11,600
wall that's like twenty feet tall, and there's Swiss guards

1092
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:19,319
with halberds everywhere, and and you know, truth be told, right,

1093
01:14:19,399 --> 01:14:21,800
And this is this is a big problem that the

1094
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:25,079
church is going to have in the future. And that's

1095
01:14:25,079 --> 01:14:28,119
why I do my show. Is like, if you can't

1096
01:14:28,359 --> 01:14:32,279
accept the reality of like a population with an IQ

1097
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,960
of one hundred going to church versus the population with

1098
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:39,159
an IQ of seventy going to church, You're like, if

1099
01:14:39,199 --> 01:14:42,439
you think those are gonna be the same thing. You're

1100
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:48,680
just not dealing with the real world. And you know,

1101
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:52,199
an IQ seventy church is not going to produce theologians.

1102
01:14:52,359 --> 01:14:55,439
It's not going to produce it's hardly going to produce priests, right,

1103
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,479
You're not gonna have it, Thomas Quantis come out of

1104
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:07,600
a popula that that where you know, literacy is a

1105
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:16,520
stretch for these people. And that's that's just the bare facts.

1106
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:19,840
I'm not trying to black bail anybody or make anyone's

1107
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:23,479
life worse or whatever. But like that, that's just reality.

1108
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:27,399
And as Pete has been fun of saying lately, you know,

1109
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:32,000
you haven't met the average Indian yet, right, Like if

1110
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:38,079
that's you know, that's the if that's the population, that

1111
01:15:39,399 --> 01:15:43,840
is you know, the future of the church, like oof, right.

1112
01:15:45,279 --> 01:15:49,359
And I've been involved in Catholic stuff for as an adult,

1113
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:53,880
you know, or a young adult for thirty years. And

1114
01:15:55,279 --> 01:15:56,880
you know who shows up to clean up the church?

1115
01:15:59,199 --> 01:16:00,760
You know it gives money to the church. You know

1116
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:04,520
who does of all the volunteering, Middle aged white guys.

1117
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 3: I was going to old Yeah, older white Catholics.

1118
01:16:08,039 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, middle aged white guys. That's who shows up to help.

1119
01:16:12,039 --> 01:16:14,920
That's who puts money in money to play it on Sunday.

1120
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:23,680
That's who does most of the work in the pews, right,

1121
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:26,359
It's retired ladies and middle aged guys who, you know,

1122
01:16:27,039 --> 01:16:31,359
do what they can. And if the if the entire

1123
01:16:31,399 --> 01:16:34,439
population that goes to church is used to receiving benefits

1124
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:37,359
from the church and doesn't expect to put anything into

1125
01:16:37,359 --> 01:16:40,880
the church, which is what the calculation of their ices

1126
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:43,399
Los Angeles made, and look at how well that's turned out.

1127
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:49,800
You know, like it's just not going to continue from

1128
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:51,479
a from a purely economic point.

1129
01:16:51,279 --> 01:16:59,279
Speaker 3: Of view, Yeah, you are, you are sketching out what

1130
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:06,239
I think. It's pretty much an inevitable I don't know

1131
01:17:06,279 --> 01:17:12,600
what you'd call it, a shrinkage towards the diocese, at

1132
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:16,439
least in terms of the attention and the focus. When

1133
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:21,520
when something becomes globalist, when it becomes oriented towards a

1134
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:29,880
global position, there just isn't going to be any liturgical unity.

1135
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:35,359
And so I think we're all going to have to

1136
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:41,520
as Catholics. We hopefully there's some breathing room with the

1137
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:45,000
traditional Latin Mass. But I think liturgy is really going

1138
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:47,279
to be the big topic of the next one hundred

1139
01:17:47,359 --> 01:17:49,800
years is what is the difference between liturgy and how

1140
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:52,680
far does can liturgy go before we start to see

1141
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:57,560
something that's just different, a different Mass that's not essentially

1142
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:01,760
the same thing. And I do wonder about I wonder

1143
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:02,680
how much that affects.

1144
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,560
Speaker 2: Have you read Work in Human Hands by Father and

1145
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:11,520
I anthan Ina? No? I have not picking up. It's magisterial.

1146
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:13,720
It's a really, really good book. It details all the

1147
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:16,680
problems with the New Mass from from a traditionalist perspective.

1148
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:21,960
And I I, I think that you're there already. You

1149
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:28,880
know what you're gonna see, right, And most people this

1150
01:18:29,039 --> 01:18:32,319
is again you know, like I love you conservative you know,

1151
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:36,479
never sort of people. But but you're wrong. And here's

1152
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:45,640
why that is that for you to be right, for

1153
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:49,720
everything to be hunky dory and everything to be uh,

1154
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:58,119
you know, new springtime whatever, the fundamentals have to be there,

1155
01:18:58,239 --> 01:19:06,920
and they're not. The New Mass fundamentally changes a bunch

1156
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:13,000
of different stuff. You know, the nature of the Church

1157
01:19:13,079 --> 01:19:20,720
to other religions has a completely different orientation towards Muslims

1158
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:24,840
and Jews than the Church did previously. And that's not

1159
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:30,880
working out so great to be honest, right, you know,

1160
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:34,600
for fourteen hundred years, the Spaniards worked like they worked

1161
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:37,920
they were to get their country back from this, you know,

1162
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:40,039
the Muslims for seven hundred years, and all of a sudden,

1163
01:19:40,039 --> 01:19:42,960
now like isabellell Peralta is going to jail for being like, hey,

1164
01:19:43,239 --> 01:19:46,319
didn't we fight seven hundred years to keep the Moroccans

1165
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:50,159
out of Spain? And now right and the church is,

1166
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:52,800
you know, the church in Germany is like we have

1167
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:57,880
to vote against the AfD, like didn't you?

1168
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:00,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, the German church is just not making it out.

1169
01:20:01,039 --> 01:20:05,479
It's it's cooked, right, yeah, it's it's beyond cooked. And

1170
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:08,119
I don't know, I don't I don't know. I don't

1171
01:20:08,119 --> 01:20:11,000
know about America though, I'm not as sure about the

1172
01:20:11,119 --> 01:20:13,600
United States. So I'm very sure about Germany.

1173
01:20:14,319 --> 01:20:16,159
Speaker 2: Well, And to the extent the church exists there, it's

1174
01:20:16,159 --> 01:20:19,159
it's traditionalists. I mean, it's it's society and tenth and

1175
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:24,359
other traditionalist organizations are are for where there the church

1176
01:20:24,399 --> 01:20:26,039
has a future and people have families and people go

1177
01:20:26,119 --> 01:20:29,800
to mass like that's that's. It was bad when I

1178
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:35,079
visited there twenty years ago, but and it's only gotten

1179
01:20:35,079 --> 01:20:39,159
worse since. But for the conservative diversort of types who

1180
01:20:39,199 --> 01:20:46,640
want everything to be okay, in the future, the the

1181
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:52,319
underlying premises have to be correct, but they're not right.

1182
01:20:52,399 --> 01:20:56,279
Like I said earlier in the conversation, the fundamental problem

1183
01:20:56,359 --> 01:21:00,720
with liberalism is the same as the fundamental with Judaism,

1184
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:02,960
and that is at the heart of both of them

1185
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:09,920
is a rejection of Jesus Christ and a rejection of God.

1186
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:21,840
That whether it's locking liberalism or or what's that rolls right?

1187
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:25,960
You know, I am this mon added space and if

1188
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,800
I can get pick anywhere or whatever, well like that,

1189
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:34,720
that just completely destroys the point of families and contingent things.

1190
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:36,840
And you know, the faith that you're given right like

1191
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:39,239
no one, hardly anybody you know, like chooses to be

1192
01:21:39,319 --> 01:21:42,880
baptized as a kid, like your parents baptize you when

1193
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:46,119
you're what a week old, you know, or they should,

1194
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:57,079
and you are raised in a Catholic culture. And the

1195
01:21:57,119 --> 01:22:00,000
folks that want everything to be good in the future

1196
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:07,479
sure want the foundation, they want they want the building

1197
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:09,319
to stand up, but they want to remove the foundation.

1198
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:15,640
And that's just it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work.

1199
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:21,760
And the difference between you know, a local Democrat politician

1200
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:32,039
and the uh you know, the hardcore like anarchist collectivists

1201
01:22:32,079 --> 01:22:34,319
in Spain, which is the weirdest thing to say, like

1202
01:22:34,359 --> 01:22:37,920
anarchist collectivists, But that's what they were, you know, uh

1203
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:42,239
is merely a matter of degree. It's not a difference

1204
01:22:42,279 --> 01:22:47,000
in kind, like that they don't fundamentally disagree with premises

1205
01:22:49,159 --> 01:22:53,119
on on who man is and what what? You know,

1206
01:22:53,159 --> 01:22:57,520
what's the point of life? You know that they they

1207
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:01,359
want to be. Uh is how Charles Hay would put

1208
01:23:01,399 --> 01:23:08,039
it right, unyoked to any unchosen non deliberately chosen bonds anywhere,

1209
01:23:08,119 --> 01:23:11,720
at any time forever. I think Charles Hay would puts

1210
01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:17,000
it better than I could ever. But and the Church

1211
01:23:17,079 --> 01:23:21,760
Hastics like realize that. And I don't think most of it,

1212
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:25,760
Like even Urdo, who I like most of the time, right,

1213
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,079
I don't think he fully grasps it now He's he's

1214
01:23:30,079 --> 01:23:32,319
doing the best job of anybody available right now. Of

1215
01:23:32,399 --> 01:23:36,199
like no, like Hungarians are Hungarian and that it's right

1216
01:23:36,239 --> 01:23:40,119
for them to want to stay Hungarian, And like Victor

1217
01:23:40,119 --> 01:23:41,800
Oreon isn't the worst person in the history of the

1218
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:44,159
world for merely wanting, you know, as doing his job

1219
01:23:44,279 --> 01:23:47,079
as the Prime Minister of Hungary to promote the interests

1220
01:23:47,079 --> 01:23:52,119
of the Hungarian people. But I don't think that.

1221
01:23:54,279 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 3: You know, and.

1222
01:23:58,279 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 2: Certainly most of the people in any position of authority,

1223
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:09,239
whether it's the church or the state, like they don't

1224
01:24:09,279 --> 01:24:15,840
understand anything. If they did, you know, Timeline Earth would

1225
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:18,760
be getting more phone calls from important people going, hey man,

1226
01:24:22,039 --> 01:24:24,399
you know, it's gratifying to know that there are some

1227
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:28,159
important people listening to Pete's programs and stuff like that.

1228
01:24:28,279 --> 01:24:32,840
But you know, to quote, you know Cardinal Sara, right,

1229
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:35,359
you know, who's just not going to get in to

1230
01:24:35,439 --> 01:24:38,279
be a miracle if he did, right the hour is

1231
01:24:38,359 --> 01:24:43,920
late m you know the title of his book, right like,

1232
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:52,760
and you know for most and most of you guys

1233
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:55,479
are old. That's the other thing, like you can see it,

1234
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,000
you know, in the just past Canadian elections, right like,

1235
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:01,920
Canadian boomers basically handed their country over to a wirdo

1236
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:05,439
central banker because they were really afraid about confronting Donald Trump.

1237
01:25:06,239 --> 01:25:09,239
And you know, American boomers are all out, they're doing

1238
01:25:09,279 --> 01:25:13,920
protests about their social security. It's like, you don't understand

1239
01:25:14,119 --> 01:25:18,760
how bad things are for everyone under forty or even

1240
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:24,520
under fifty, Like you live in this boomer bubble where like, yeah,

1241
01:25:25,239 --> 01:25:30,720
you got divorced once in like nineteen eighty four, and

1242
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:33,239
it messed up your kids for life. But like you

1243
01:25:33,319 --> 01:25:37,399
got married to your you know, second wife who's you

1244
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:41,359
know from Thailand in you know, nineteen ninety one, and

1245
01:25:41,399 --> 01:25:45,760
you've stayed married since. And you know your house is

1246
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:51,199
paid off and you know, bought it for forty thousand

1247
01:25:51,239 --> 01:25:54,840
dollars back or eighty thousand dollars back in nineteen eighty four.

1248
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:58,479
That was worth four point three million. Look at that,

1249
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:03,479
I look at the financial genie is you know, like yeah, right.

1250
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 3: Just by land.

1251
01:26:06,199 --> 01:26:09,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not making any more of it. Actually the

1252
01:26:09,359 --> 01:26:18,159
Chinese are, you know, but like, uh, but that's they

1253
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:25,960
don't know, these these old men with money and who

1254
01:26:25,960 --> 01:26:30,920
are insulated from everything, right, Like someone drives them. They

1255
01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:34,279
get up in the morning and there's like servants who

1256
01:26:34,319 --> 01:26:37,399
make them breakfast and help them get dressed, and they

1257
01:26:37,399 --> 01:26:40,520
say their private mass and then they go do meetings

1258
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:45,760
and people drive them everywhere or you know, their security

1259
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:51,680
all the time. They've never been like on a street

1260
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:59,720
in Rome surrounded by Africans trying to sell you crap, right.

1261
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:03,319
Speaker 3: Which you'd assumably you think the cardinals might have experienced that.

1262
01:27:04,159 --> 01:27:05,359
But at one point or another.

1263
01:27:07,359 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 2: But no, they don't. They just don't, right that they

1264
01:27:11,119 --> 01:27:16,880
don't know. You know. Peter koldwo Apa Turksen born in

1265
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:21,239
nineteen forty eight. You know it's from Ghana. Yeah right,

1266
01:27:22,079 --> 01:27:26,920
he has no idea what life is like for the

1267
01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:32,760
average person since he got to Rome in the nineties.

1268
01:27:36,079 --> 01:27:41,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, he is, uh, And he's probably the shining example

1269
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:46,640
of the un guy, the un pope, of which there

1270
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:54,720
are many now yeah right, I mean he's one of

1271
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:57,800
the strangest of them all to me in terms of

1272
01:27:58,039 --> 01:28:01,119
a guy who might receive the life probably won't. But

1273
01:28:01,359 --> 01:28:06,439
the the variety, it almost feels as though when you're

1274
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:12,279
looking through the palpable candidates, there shouldn't be nearly as

1275
01:28:12,359 --> 01:28:18,640
much disagreement on positions as there is. And it's all

1276
01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:21,960
the and it's to a ludicrous degree. I mean, the

1277
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,439
some are in favor of divorce andary marriage and in

1278
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:28,039
allments for you know, minor reasons for divorces, and then

1279
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:33,479
but they're also only traditional marriages, no homosexual marriages. And

1280
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:36,479
then there are some who are very stern about divorce,

1281
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:41,239
but they would marry homosexuals. It seems like it's I mean,

1282
01:28:41,279 --> 01:28:43,560
as I looked through all of the cardinals the various

1283
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:48,880
publicly stated positions, the only unity seems to be the

1284
01:28:49,119 --> 01:28:51,600
uniqueness to which one of the cardinals can have a

1285
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:55,920
very liberal opinion. Yeah, it's at least half of them.

1286
01:28:56,239 --> 01:28:59,640
Speaker 2: At least half of them, right, So I'm going to

1287
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:03,479
the College of Cardinals report dot com slash where they

1288
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:12,000
stand and like ordaining female deacons, and this is every

1289
01:29:12,079 --> 01:29:14,800
cardinal where like everyone who's even slightly Peppa Beile, right,

1290
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:16,520
So this is fifty people as opposed to the more

1291
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:21,079
realistic five that you talked about. But like, why is

1292
01:29:21,119 --> 01:29:25,840
there anybody that thinks it's okay? Right, Schumbourne says, it's okay.

1293
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:27,960
This is the guy that I edited. I said edited it.

1294
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:30,119
Then any four cat you.

1295
01:29:30,079 --> 01:29:32,760
Speaker 3: Know, right, there's some very and I'm sure we could

1296
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:34,399
go into it. I don't know how much longer we have,

1297
01:29:34,439 --> 01:29:36,800
but there's some very clear answers to why it is

1298
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:40,239
that way. It isn't at lost on a lot of us.

1299
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:46,560
You know why it is that way. There's a massive infiltration. Yeah, so,

1300
01:29:47,039 --> 01:29:48,800
I mean you already talked about it really so.

1301
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:59,800
Speaker 2: Right, and I mean I'm prepared, and that's why I do.

1302
01:30:00,079 --> 01:30:02,720
I do in terms of my show. It's very Catholic focused,

1303
01:30:03,319 --> 01:30:08,000
very religion focused, like we're we're going back to the catacombs, man,

1304
01:30:08,359 --> 01:30:14,239
Like that's that's that's what's happening. And yeah, and you

1305
01:30:14,279 --> 01:30:17,880
know worse way too, because it's one thing for like,

1306
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:21,159
you know, pagan Rome in the year two hundred, right,

1307
01:30:22,159 --> 01:30:29,560
was a bad place, but like Romans had virtues that

1308
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:32,800
they honored just because they had to in order to

1309
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:35,319
survive in the world. Right, you had to be brave,

1310
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:37,079
to be honest, I thought it was there.

1311
01:30:37,279 --> 01:30:39,680
Speaker 1: I thought it was their paganism that made them brave

1312
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:47,199
and and all that. That's what I kept hearing that Twitter,

1313
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:49,199
That's what I keep hearing on Twitter.

1314
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:55,760
Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, well Twitter theologians are notoriously unreliable. But like, right,

1315
01:30:56,319 --> 01:30:58,359
you know, let's say what you will about the Vikings, right,

1316
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:01,000
but you know, it was the first of the nine

1317
01:31:01,079 --> 01:31:02,960
virtues that the Vikings went out, Like yeah, they might

1318
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:07,119
have been like horrible like slavers and rapists and murderers

1319
01:31:07,159 --> 01:31:09,600
and stuff, but they had virtues like you have to

1320
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:11,439
you know, like hey, let's get this little tiny boat

1321
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:12,640
and then go across the North Sea.

1322
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 3: You know. One of the objections is there was never

1323
01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:19,560
a Viking pope, so I could tolerate it, right, But

1324
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:24,199
we're getting some modern Viking, we're getting some modern Vikings,

1325
01:31:24,199 --> 01:31:25,319
so we're getting very close.

1326
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, but the problem is is that in those societies,

1327
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:38,239
whatever they might have had before they became Christian, to

1328
01:31:38,359 --> 01:31:41,880
have once been a Christian society and decisively rejected christ

1329
01:31:42,039 --> 01:31:47,000
makes you so much worse as a society than a

1330
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:52,159
society that never like like had had never had it

1331
01:31:52,239 --> 01:31:55,880
and just kind of lived because you naturally had virtues

1332
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:57,640
just to just to have to survive. You had to

1333
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:00,960
be thrifty, you had to be you know, you had

1334
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:02,800
to be brave, you had had to fight, you had

1335
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:04,960
to do all these other things that like just to survive.

1336
01:32:05,399 --> 01:32:08,760
And the problem we have now, right is that, you know,

1337
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:12,439
in this post increasingly pros Christian hostile society that you know,

1338
01:32:12,479 --> 01:32:15,640
hates Christianity. There's a lot of people who are kind

1339
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,600
of dumb, and they have this idea that like Christianity

1340
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:20,960
is the thing stopping people from living this you know,

1341
01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:29,239
luxury space communism. And they're perfectly happy, you know, like

1342
01:32:29,279 --> 01:32:32,359
if we just kill all the Christians, everything will be better,

1343
01:32:32,399 --> 01:32:35,079
And they genuinely believe that, and they they're not shy

1344
01:32:35,119 --> 01:32:37,720
about seeking state power to do things like that. And

1345
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:40,880
the problem that it's going to result in that is

1346
01:32:41,239 --> 01:32:42,600
a lot of people were going to double down this

1347
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:45,439
sort of thing. It's going to get worse. You know,

1348
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:52,039
the Christian society. The guy that you know, it's your office,

1349
01:32:52,079 --> 01:32:55,000
who's a solid guy, and he shows up to work

1350
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:58,079
and he does a good job. You know, who's thirty five,

1351
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:01,439
he probably goes you know, more often than not, that

1352
01:33:01,479 --> 01:33:06,600
guy goes to church. And as you as you destroy

1353
01:33:06,720 --> 01:33:11,520
the functioning parts of society, things don't get better if

1354
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,359
like no one gets married and kids are just kind

1355
01:33:14,359 --> 01:33:19,479
of raised by however, right, right, turning, turning all of

1356
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:23,880
America into the ghetto is not a recipe for success

1357
01:33:24,199 --> 01:33:29,520
where marriages don't really happen, and you know, relationships are

1358
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:36,319
very tenuous and don't last, right, you know, kids need

1359
01:33:36,359 --> 01:33:40,319
a dad all their lives, and this notion that you're

1360
01:33:40,359 --> 01:33:42,479
going to live in a society that that functions well,

1361
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:46,960
you know, in a post Christian environment is just it's

1362
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:51,640
just not true. And thankfully, i mean thanks to the

1363
01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:56,479
shows like this and you know, just the chaos the

1364
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:58,840
last few years more and when people are realizing that

1365
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:04,039
and why they're why so many young men are like

1366
01:34:04,119 --> 01:34:10,560
returning to church and finding and being strident. So so

1367
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,520
that's good. But in the meantime, right, just don't don't

1368
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:14,800
count any institutional hope.

1369
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, when when you talk about the catacombs that the

1370
01:34:19,159 --> 01:34:23,720
online catacombs are really where a lot of this tradition

1371
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:30,640
is being captain propitiated. I mean discords and and DM

1372
01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:34,920
channels and telegrams, we really are and the the catacombs

1373
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:36,039
when you put it like that.

1374
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 2: Right, I mean like I can't. I should be able

1375
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:45,159
to walk up to my pastor or my bishop and

1376
01:34:45,199 --> 01:34:48,760
be like, hello, I'm the world same as you know, intellectual.

1377
01:34:49,159 --> 01:34:50,800
I can say that because I have like a fan

1378
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:55,159
in Australia and a fan in England, so right, like

1379
01:34:55,159 --> 01:34:57,279
like I got a buddy in South Africa, so like

1380
01:34:57,399 --> 01:35:01,479
you know, I'm it's global, right, Yeah, so I global.

1381
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:07,119
But like no, like how many how many you know,

1382
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:09,479
people who actually know what's going on in the world

1383
01:35:10,319 --> 01:35:14,159
are frozen out of a structure of authority because you know,

1384
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:17,760
it's bird, Like I know you as bird, I respect

1385
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:20,039
you as bird. You can't go to your pastor be like, Hi,

1386
01:35:20,199 --> 01:35:22,640
I'm bird. From timeline Earth. Then you need you need

1387
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:25,399
to sit down and listen to me. Right, that should happen,

1388
01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:26,840
but it doesn't.

1389
01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:30,239
Speaker 3: I have a pretty base pastor. The problem is that

1390
01:35:30,279 --> 01:35:37,600
he's Cuban. It's otherwise, it's fine.

1391
01:35:36,279 --> 01:35:41,560
Speaker 1: I told I told Birdo this before before you got on.

1392
01:35:42,079 --> 01:35:44,800
The two most based priests I've met since I've been here,

1393
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:47,159
well except for the one that does the LTM that

1394
01:35:47,239 --> 01:35:52,760
I go to or both Indians. They're both from India

1395
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:57,079
and they're like old school. They act like old school

1396
01:35:57,119 --> 01:36:03,479
Irish priests. Like sure, like they'll look at you like

1397
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:06,319
you're an idiot. If you say something, you say something

1398
01:36:06,359 --> 01:36:09,159
stupid and if you get into confession and you confess

1399
01:36:09,199 --> 01:36:13,520
something that, I mean, they'll it's not like, oh just

1400
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:17,800
do this, You're going to get a lecture. What happened

1401
01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:20,319
to that? Yeah, I can't we have like can't we

1402
01:36:20,359 --> 01:36:22,279
have someone in the like can't we have someone who

1403
01:36:22,359 --> 01:36:23,520
was born in the West.

1404
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:27,920
Speaker 3: I really do think of there's a global sorting that

1405
01:36:28,359 --> 01:36:30,199
really needs to be at least let me talk in

1406
01:36:30,239 --> 01:36:32,560
the terms of the United States, not to confuse the issue,

1407
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:35,039
but in the United States there really needs to be

1408
01:36:35,119 --> 01:36:39,720
a sorting more intentional choices on certain communities where there

1409
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:43,079
are uh, these more traditional Catholic structures.

1410
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:44,520
Speaker 2: I really.

1411
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:48,359
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean, I think I'm fairly sure on

1412
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:54,560
your opinion. Mine at least is I do think you

1413
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:57,640
can get a good priest, and I think you can

1414
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:01,640
get a good bishop. And it's I don't know how

1415
01:37:04,079 --> 01:37:07,840
dark the near future is. At least what level of

1416
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:11,520
hope can one hold that just by the nature of

1417
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:16,800
so many young American priests, people re entering the priesthood,

1418
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:22,199
not just the religion itself, but the priesthood, they do

1419
01:37:22,279 --> 01:37:25,800
hold more conservative views, do they not? I mean, at

1420
01:37:25,880 --> 01:37:28,159
least is a stepping stone at least is this kind

1421
01:37:28,159 --> 01:37:29,079
of a stepping stone?

1422
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:32,520
Speaker 2: They do? But like how many of them have said

1423
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:35,479
anything right, like this is the sure Yeah. The problem

1424
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:38,439
is that they get institutional capture. And you would have thought,

1425
01:37:38,479 --> 01:37:40,039
and I've been I don't know how long you've been

1426
01:37:40,079 --> 01:37:41,960
Catholic or if you like left the church and camp

1427
01:37:41,960 --> 01:37:44,720
back or whatever, but I've been in the trenches for

1428
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:47,439
thirty years. And there were a bunch of people who

1429
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:50,600
were like around Benedict and Jump all the second time,

1430
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:54,199
who were like, we're you know, we're going to take

1431
01:37:54,199 --> 01:37:55,880
it back and everything that's gonna get better. Well, twelve

1432
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:57,560
years of Francis shows you that there's a lot of

1433
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:00,760
people who just want you know, there's a lot of

1434
01:38:00,760 --> 01:38:04,079
people who just want the promotion and just want like

1435
01:38:04,079 --> 01:38:06,399
they will go from you know, look at shown Born right,

1436
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:09,239
like you know, went from ninety four catechism to being

1437
01:38:09,279 --> 01:38:14,199
like female deacons are great, what you're like, so you know,

1438
01:38:14,920 --> 01:38:17,399
and a lot of people get you know, removed from

1439
01:38:17,399 --> 01:38:20,800
seminary for being too based, and a lot and and

1440
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:25,000
and you just can't count on like an institution that's

1441
01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:30,840
fundamentally not set up correctly or in the hands of enemies, right,

1442
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:35,560
m hm, there's a lot of these are you can't

1443
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:38,039
counter it, like like I'm sorry, I can't count on CNN.

1444
01:38:38,159 --> 01:38:40,159
Why there might be some cool people at see Ann

1445
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:45,079
probably are, but like do you trust seeing in supporting.

1446
01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:47,680
Speaker 3: You count on them? No? Yeah, of course, because.

1447
01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 2: They don't have anything right, which is why you know

1448
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:52,520
Timeline Earth is the number one news switch for the

1449
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:53,079
entire nation?

1450
01:38:53,199 --> 01:38:56,159
Speaker 3: Is that true? When you can count on us and

1451
01:38:56,239 --> 01:38:57,399
you can count on us.

1452
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:00,800
Speaker 2: Right exactly, you know. But but that's but that's the

1453
01:39:01,119 --> 01:39:02,840
nature of the beast that we're dealing with is like

1454
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:05,720
you might have the Oh, I agree, and people need

1455
01:39:05,720 --> 01:39:07,439
to deal. People just need to know what time it is.

1456
01:39:08,439 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree. No, I totally agree with that absolutly.

1457
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:13,439
There has to be a recognition of the kind of

1458
01:39:13,439 --> 01:39:16,439
situation the American catholic is going to be in, and

1459
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:17,960
that a lot of the people who are going around

1460
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:20,680
are very nominal in their Catholicism, and that really is

1461
01:39:20,720 --> 01:39:24,039
not You can't you just can't. I agree, You just

1462
01:39:24,039 --> 01:39:24,920
can't count on that.

1463
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean anyone who if you've gone to

1464
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:33,159
a Protestant charge for any period of timing time, it's

1465
01:39:33,199 --> 01:39:36,840
the same thing. Most of those people are nominally Christian too.

1466
01:39:38,319 --> 01:39:43,399
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this is a problem. That's this. Yeah, I

1467
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:48,880
think anyone who's honest, who isn't attending a former i

1468
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:53,720
hop current church, anybody who's honest can reflect on the

1469
01:39:53,720 --> 01:40:01,000
fact that their church, their congregation is declining and that

1470
01:40:01,079 --> 01:40:05,039
the doctrinal solidity has really slipped over the years. And

1471
01:40:05,279 --> 01:40:07,680
all of the churches, I mean it's only over the

1472
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:12,319
past thirty to forty years that homosexuality has run its

1473
01:40:12,319 --> 01:40:15,119
way through all of the high churches, I mean all

1474
01:40:15,159 --> 01:40:20,520
of them. This is a fairly new so I do.

1475
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:24,800
I think it's very difficult to take anybody seriously who's saying, well,

1476
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:30,439
my church hasn't experienced a major decline. I just don't

1477
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:33,720
you know, it seems like this is a global problem,

1478
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:39,439
not just a Catholic problem.

1479
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:43,159
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a problem everywhere with everything. You know. I mean,

1480
01:40:43,439 --> 01:40:45,479
if I know you're friend of Petson, have been for

1481
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:47,960
a long time, have listened to you mine probably a

1482
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:52,880
dozen shows on here, you know it goes it's a

1483
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:55,239
political problem, it's to social problem, it's a religious problem,

1484
01:40:55,279 --> 01:40:58,960
it's a society wide problem and everything. And this is

1485
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:01,680
one of those things that you know, like the pernicious

1486
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:07,439
doctrines of Americanism, right, like there is no separation church

1487
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:10,479
and state. There's no such thing as a secular society,

1488
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:17,760
right everyone, every society has their religion. Just you know,

1489
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:22,319
go to the middle of town square, drop a hard

1490
01:41:22,439 --> 01:41:25,720
r and see what people say. It's the same thing

1491
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:28,840
as if you'd you know, blasphemed in pureit New England

1492
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:31,800
in you know, sixteen forty five.

1493
01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:37,239
Speaker 3: I you know, Americanism being so prolific in the United States,

1494
01:41:37,319 --> 01:41:40,039
and it's many forms, even to the point where it's

1495
01:41:40,079 --> 01:41:43,760
Americanists who don't actually agree politically on very much. There's

1496
01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:46,199
just so many expressions of it. It does make you

1497
01:41:46,279 --> 01:41:49,560
wonder is the treatment in the United States, which seems

1498
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:51,279
to be kind of to just avert the eyes and

1499
01:41:51,359 --> 01:41:55,079
let things go their course. It's interesting how that's occurring. Well,

1500
01:41:55,159 --> 01:41:57,279
at the same time, the treatment of Germany is the

1501
01:41:57,279 --> 01:42:01,800
way that it is this very capitulatory willingness to allow

1502
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:04,800
to go along. Meanwhile in our country, have bishops were

1503
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:08,199
being yanked out of their chairs. It's just it's very

1504
01:42:08,279 --> 01:42:10,439
unusual the treatment of one versus the other.

1505
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:16,520
Speaker 2: Well, that's because Germany's under occupation, right, like if the

1506
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:20,279
Germans started getting too strappy, certain people in you know

1507
01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:24,479
usaid or you know, let's not get ourselves. Also, the

1508
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:33,279
CIA has you know the CIA, and in nineteen forty

1509
01:42:33,359 --> 01:42:36,159
seven or so, someone realized that, wait a minute, that

1510
01:42:36,239 --> 01:42:40,600
the Vatican has one of the best intelligence networks in

1511
01:42:40,640 --> 01:42:45,359
the world, you know, and someone quickly does.

1512
01:42:45,279 --> 01:42:47,760
Speaker 3: It's so based. I wish that it worked for our needs,

1513
01:42:48,279 --> 01:42:50,760
because that's so awesome. I just wish did it work

1514
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:56,000
for our needs. It sucks. There's such a huge apparatus there.

1515
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:02,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something that we've something that we've talked about is,

1516
01:43:03,159 --> 01:43:06,359
you know, the left, the left patronage networks are just

1517
01:43:06,399 --> 01:43:11,159
a default our patronage net We don't have patritage networks.

1518
01:43:11,199 --> 01:43:15,000
We have canceling networks where you know, if you if

1519
01:43:15,039 --> 01:43:17,960
you if you say something to right wing quote unquote

1520
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:21,560
too right wing, oh, you get canceled by the quote

1521
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:22,399
unquote right wing.

1522
01:43:23,279 --> 01:43:25,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, don't be woke.

1523
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:30,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, James Lindsay has taken seriously by people. Meanwhile, like

1524
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:33,000
Pika Nerns has to ask for money, speaking of which

1525
01:43:33,039 --> 01:43:34,319
you know, if you've been to be on the wall,

1526
01:43:34,359 --> 01:43:38,359
slash support like kick him bucks, kick him so many

1527
01:43:38,359 --> 01:43:40,720
bucks for he can afford to pay me. And Bird,

1528
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:44,119
that's how much money you should kick Pete is so

1529
01:43:44,239 --> 01:43:44,680
much fun.

1530
01:43:45,319 --> 01:43:48,439
Speaker 1: And go to the Timeline Earth Patreon. I'm a Patreon

1531
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:52,800
supporter of Timeline Earth. And it's not because i've known Bird.

1532
01:43:53,079 --> 01:43:55,439
Bird's probably the first person who actually knew my real

1533
01:43:55,560 --> 01:44:03,199
name anybody when I started podcasting. But imagine my shock. Yeah,

1534
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:10,960
it's like, what what the hell's that last name? But yeah,

1535
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:13,760
I'm a patron supporter because I think Timeline Earth is

1536
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:16,760
like the funniest, the funniest show that you know goes

1537
01:44:16,920 --> 01:44:18,600
live every Wednesday.

1538
01:44:18,840 --> 01:44:23,119
Speaker 3: See I'm even except it except this Wednesday where we

1539
01:44:23,119 --> 01:44:25,800
we did chose not to go live in rejection of

1540
01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:27,399
our audience's expectations.

1541
01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:31,680
Speaker 1: Yes, true, well, but that that doesn't mean you can't

1542
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:32,479
catch the audience.

1543
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:36,199
Speaker 2: Can't can't catch the replay, which which you should do.

1544
01:44:36,359 --> 01:44:38,640
And you should go to Timeline Earth and subscribe to

1545
01:44:38,640 --> 01:44:42,319
the r s S feed as I do, and and

1546
01:44:42,399 --> 01:44:45,760
uh and give it a good review and and you know, okay,

1547
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:47,840
tongue for me and cheek whatever. But like this is

1548
01:44:47,880 --> 01:44:51,119
why they win. This is why someone like Crystal of

1549
01:44:51,199 --> 01:44:54,560
Crystal Showbourne can can go from being someone who you know,

1550
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:56,359
was the guy who was trusted to edit the ninety

1551
01:44:56,399 --> 01:44:59,600
four Catechism to a guy who supports female deacons because

1552
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:01,840
the patrin and his network steered him that way for

1553
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:05,159
the lasting And there is no there is no right

1554
01:45:05,199 --> 01:45:08,880
wing patronage network. There is no you know, the right

1555
01:45:08,880 --> 01:45:11,760
wing seminarians have like they they got to go get

1556
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:15,039
jobs and McDonald's to pay off their student loans. Whereas

1557
01:45:15,079 --> 01:45:18,119
you know the guy who's like, hey, I'm a friend

1558
01:45:18,159 --> 01:45:19,800
of Bill A. Dodds and I want to get into

1559
01:45:19,840 --> 01:45:23,479
seminary to like ruin things, like someone will show up

1560
01:45:23,479 --> 01:45:26,479
with their money, like hey, you need you know, like

1561
01:45:26,479 --> 01:45:28,840
like and you know, the Saint Allan Mafia is a thing,

1562
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:32,520
like they really have. They really did pay people tens

1563
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:34,800
of millions of dollars to do bad stuff, right, and

1564
01:45:34,840 --> 01:45:40,000
they the you know Mittel Slovini like like face jail

1565
01:45:40,039 --> 01:45:43,079
time because like the Vatican along with the Italian government

1566
01:45:43,159 --> 01:45:45,319
was like smuggling migrants into Europe.

1567
01:45:45,119 --> 01:45:48,520
Speaker 3: Right, Like, yeah, he had and he had many disputes

1568
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:54,399
with Zoopie. I don't know if you recall you had, right,

1569
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:57,880
what is that one dispute that they had. I had

1570
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:00,479
to write it down because I found it such aline

1571
01:46:00,520 --> 01:46:05,079
earth kind of subject. Oh they had a here, let

1572
01:46:05,159 --> 01:46:07,319
me see if I can find it, it's worth recanting.

1573
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:11,319
So Mateo Salvini has a Yeah, like you said, there

1574
01:46:11,359 --> 01:46:15,159
was a public war of words. And then I don't know,

1575
01:46:15,199 --> 01:46:18,119
did you ever hear about the tortolino of the welcome?

1576
01:46:19,319 --> 01:46:20,720
Speaker 2: Uh? No, please elaborate.

1577
01:46:21,479 --> 01:46:27,600
Speaker 3: So they were hosting the Feast of Saint Petronas, which

1578
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:30,119
they do every year, and this time they wanted to

1579
01:46:31,119 --> 01:46:36,039
welcome Muslims and to eat alongside them the traditional tortolino

1580
01:46:36,159 --> 01:46:39,039
that they would make for it had pork, and instead

1581
01:46:39,079 --> 01:46:42,720
they build and created and build a tortellino of the

1582
01:46:42,760 --> 01:46:45,880
welcome which had chicken in it, so that the Muslims

1583
01:46:45,920 --> 01:46:49,399
could enjoy the feast of Saint Petronius right next to

1584
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:52,840
the Catholics. And Salvini was mocking it in the news,

1585
01:46:54,439 --> 01:46:56,119
and it was just a big thing. And I read

1586
01:46:56,119 --> 01:46:59,479
that and I cringed so hard. I I just can't.

1587
01:46:59,279 --> 01:47:07,640
Speaker 2: Well, unnecessary. But those people now understand is that uh

1588
01:47:08,479 --> 01:47:09,680
is was a Zoopie that did it.

1589
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:10,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, Zoopie.

1590
01:47:11,159 --> 01:47:15,279
Speaker 2: Right, those people have now accepted that that in their

1591
01:47:15,319 --> 01:47:19,439
minds and in a very real way. Right, that Zoopie

1592
01:47:19,439 --> 01:47:23,279
has accepted demi status and that that the public culture

1593
01:47:23,279 --> 01:47:27,279
of Italy should conform to them. Yes, Like, no, actually

1594
01:47:27,439 --> 01:47:29,800
that is not the way things should go. It's it's

1595
01:47:29,880 --> 01:47:32,920
it's like the land acknowledgment crap in Australia or the

1596
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:36,720
United States, where like we are on unseated Navajo land.

1597
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:40,600
Like no, the Navajo seeded this when they got their

1598
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:41,760
asses kicked in the war.

1599
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:45,159
Speaker 3: But we thought the German land acknowledgments were very funny

1600
01:47:45,159 --> 01:47:47,039
if you saw those going around recently.

1601
01:47:47,960 --> 01:47:49,520
Speaker 2: I'm not on Twitter, so I don't see a lot

1602
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:49,920
of stuff.

1603
01:47:50,319 --> 01:47:53,880
Speaker 3: The Germans were land acknowledging, and they were just naming

1604
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:56,680
all of the tribes of people who became the German. Right,

1605
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:01,880
that's pretty awesome, it actually was. It's an unexpectedly based

1606
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:02,680
German moment.

1607
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:10,840
Speaker 2: Good for them, But like, like, okay, so eminence, if

1608
01:48:12,399 --> 01:48:22,399
being Italian means if being Muslim and rejecting uh mortadella

1609
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:28,960
and rejecting and rejecting Torriso and rejecting all of these foods,

1610
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:32,039
that are what everyone thinks of when they think of Italian, right,

1611
01:48:32,039 --> 01:48:37,319
because they're all pork, They're all pork sausage. It's all pork, right, Yeah,

1612
01:48:37,359 --> 01:48:41,039
if that's if that's just as okay as being Italian?

1613
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:45,680
What's the fucking point of being Italian?

1614
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:48,119
Speaker 3: What's the point of becoming Catholic?

1615
01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:50,359
Speaker 2: Right? Like, what's the point of being Catholic? Right? Like,

1616
01:48:50,439 --> 01:48:53,760
didn't didn't the Normans fight like a two hundred year

1617
01:48:53,800 --> 01:48:56,439
ward to keep to get the get the Muslims out

1618
01:48:56,479 --> 01:48:59,640
of Sicily, Like, wasn't you know, thank.

1619
01:48:59,560 --> 01:49:04,000
Speaker 3: You, thank you, sir Roger for saving Colabria kind.

1620
01:49:03,800 --> 01:49:05,399
Speaker 2: Of well, I mean.

1621
01:49:07,279 --> 01:49:10,600
Speaker 3: He did his past was it?

1622
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:12,640
Speaker 2: Was it saving it for Christen numbers saving it for

1623
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:16,079
the tank, you know, the how it bills? I uh,

1624
01:49:16,199 --> 01:49:19,000
you know, fifty to fifty. But that's a separate discussion.

1625
01:49:19,039 --> 01:49:21,239
And for those of you interested to tell you check

1626
01:49:21,279 --> 01:49:23,920
out check out the Norman Centuries podcast. It's about ten

1627
01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:29,880
years old, really really cool. But no, like if if

1628
01:49:30,199 --> 01:49:33,720
it's okay to do chicken totalini instead of like, then

1629
01:49:34,840 --> 01:49:39,159
why why celebrate SAME's names mont to Morrow's in Spain?

1630
01:49:40,239 --> 01:49:40,279
Speaker 3: What?

1631
01:49:40,479 --> 01:49:40,680
Speaker 2: Why?

1632
01:49:40,840 --> 01:49:41,159
Speaker 3: You know? What?

1633
01:49:41,159 --> 01:49:43,720
Speaker 2: Why do all of these things? How many borders were there,

1634
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:46,680
you know, who were martyred by the Turks? How many

1635
01:49:46,680 --> 01:49:49,520
people died in defensive creer? Like, what's the point of laponto?

1636
01:49:50,319 --> 01:49:50,520
Speaker 3: If?

1637
01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:52,560
Speaker 2: Like right, if if we can.

1638
01:49:52,479 --> 01:49:54,760
Speaker 3: Just if you if you if your if your culture

1639
01:49:54,840 --> 01:50:00,640
insists on uh, the inclusiveness of changing an assent food

1640
01:50:01,199 --> 01:50:03,560
so that another completely different group can join into it.

1641
01:50:03,600 --> 01:50:05,319
You don't. You don't have a culture, at least in

1642
01:50:05,359 --> 01:50:08,880
that one instance. You have no culture anymore. You now

1643
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:12,960
have a global culture. That's what that is. You just

1644
01:50:13,359 --> 01:50:15,279
sell your own culture down the river.

1645
01:50:16,359 --> 01:50:18,479
Speaker 2: Right Yeah, and not only you sold your own culture

1646
01:50:18,520 --> 01:50:22,079
down the river, but but you've totally destroyed any rationale

1647
01:50:22,199 --> 01:50:28,760
someone might have for adopting your culture. Right, like, bacon

1648
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:33,159
double cheeseburgers are in fact the proof that Christianity is

1649
01:50:33,159 --> 01:50:36,319
a true faith because Muslims can eat the beef, Jews

1650
01:50:36,359 --> 01:50:42,960
canny cheeseburgers, and Hindus can't. Yet right like, right like,

1651
01:50:43,319 --> 01:50:46,399
it is proof that America and Christianity are perfect and

1652
01:50:46,840 --> 01:50:49,560
good because bacon double cheeseburgers are awesome and if you

1653
01:50:49,560 --> 01:50:53,800
don't eat them, there's something wrong with you. True right

1654
01:50:54,479 --> 01:50:58,640
with beer, truth nuke right, because you know Muslims won't

1655
01:50:58,680 --> 01:51:00,760
drink the beer, the Mormons won't drink the beer like obviously,

1656
01:51:02,439 --> 01:51:05,199
obviously these things are better and you should you should

1657
01:51:05,199 --> 01:51:07,439
give up whatever your heathen ways are that prevent you

1658
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:10,680
from eating and enjoying bacon double cheeseburgers. You should think

1659
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:13,119
really long and hard about the fact that, like you're

1660
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:16,640
denied them by your whatever ridiculous religion you're part of,

1661
01:51:16,680 --> 01:51:23,039
whether it's Judaism or Islam or Mormonism or Hinduism or whatever,

1662
01:51:23,359 --> 01:51:26,520
and understand that like you are depriving yourself of one

1663
01:51:26,560 --> 01:51:29,199
of the true goods of the universe in not having

1664
01:51:29,199 --> 01:51:35,520
bacon double cheeseburgers. And right, that's what a civilization that

1665
01:51:35,560 --> 01:51:36,640
believes in itself.

1666
01:51:36,359 --> 01:51:39,319
Speaker 3: And then you should go back to your own contrary.

1667
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:41,680
Speaker 2: Yes, and bring the gospel and yes.

1668
01:51:41,399 --> 01:51:44,880
Speaker 3: After you become yeah, exactly, and you still have to

1669
01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:46,880
go back, and we want you to go back, and

1670
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:48,199
we want you to make it the place you came

1671
01:51:48,239 --> 01:51:49,560
from good and better.

1672
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:53,119
Speaker 2: Right by becoming Catholic and evangelizing both the Gospel of

1673
01:51:53,199 --> 01:51:53,920
Jesus Christ.

1674
01:51:53,800 --> 01:51:57,520
Speaker 3: And raising your own IQs. Raise your IQs would be great. Yes,

1675
01:51:57,640 --> 01:52:01,840
we can and trust you with things that would be great.

1676
01:52:02,239 --> 01:52:04,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.

1677
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:07,920
Speaker 3: There you go, I'll type that up, I'll send it

1678
01:52:07,960 --> 01:52:10,840
to the Pope's office. I'll type that up there and

1679
01:52:10,880 --> 01:52:12,439
maybe they'll effectuate some of.

1680
01:52:12,399 --> 01:52:15,680
Speaker 2: That that that would be fantastic. I wish you, I

1681
01:52:15,680 --> 01:52:22,239
wish you many successes. But that's the sort of thing, right,

1682
01:52:22,239 --> 01:52:28,000
And just one last thing before we go, because it's

1683
01:52:28,039 --> 01:52:34,920
that That's why I mean shows a tamil Er, we're

1684
01:52:34,920 --> 01:52:37,800
peat show or my show. That's why we're not allowed

1685
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:42,760
on TV. So support us, please, you know. That's that's why.

1686
01:52:43,119 --> 01:52:45,640
And because we have the self confidence to say that

1687
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:48,079
baking double cheese peckers are better than than not and

1688
01:52:48,079 --> 01:52:50,159
and so you should eat them and and believe.

1689
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:52,880
Speaker 3: In in your own country, eat them in your own contrary. Yes,

1690
01:52:52,960 --> 01:52:54,920
we'll bring in fact, we'll ship them to you.

1691
01:52:56,399 --> 01:53:03,039
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, burtout tell people where they can, where

1692
01:53:03,079 --> 01:53:08,399
they can supports. There was no natural I had no

1693
01:53:08,640 --> 01:53:13,000
natural kind of segue there, you.

1694
01:53:12,960 --> 01:53:17,079
Speaker 3: Know what, That's fine, that's fine. Yeah, Timeline Earth. Go

1695
01:53:17,119 --> 01:53:20,760
over to the Patreon. Every Sunday a new episode of

1696
01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:24,760
Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon Pause presents Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon

1697
01:53:24,840 --> 01:53:28,720
comes out, where we track the most extensive, greatest conspiracy

1698
01:53:28,760 --> 01:53:33,239
theory of all that ancient Babylonian mystery religions have infected

1699
01:53:33,279 --> 01:53:38,119
every element of modern institutional power and what they are

1700
01:53:38,159 --> 01:53:41,159
steering us towards. And after an episode like today, I'm

1701
01:53:41,159 --> 01:53:42,319
sure a lot of people are going to want to

1702
01:53:42,359 --> 01:53:43,840
listen to more of that. So yeah, go over to

1703
01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:45,079
the Timeline Earth Patreon.

1704
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:50,960
Speaker 1: Well maybe maybe a lot will be reminded, what the

1705
01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:53,079
hell was the name of that book that like claimed

1706
01:53:53,079 --> 01:53:55,640
that like the whole Catholic Church came out of Babylon.

1707
01:53:55,880 --> 01:53:59,960
Speaker 3: That was? What was that book? What I'm talking about

1708
01:54:00,319 --> 01:54:02,720
I have to like in my notes. But yeah, there's

1709
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:04,239
a bunch of them, but yeah.

1710
01:54:04,479 --> 01:54:10,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they love doing that, and I would I

1711
01:54:10,159 --> 01:54:12,399
would say for people who have a lot of questions,

1712
01:54:12,479 --> 01:54:15,920
even about Christianity itself, go listen to doctor Matthew Rafael

1713
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:21,479
Johnson talk about just exactly how Greek Jerusalem was at

1714
01:54:21,479 --> 01:54:26,960
the time of Jesus. Yeah, thats thecapolists, right, like that's

1715
01:54:26,960 --> 01:54:28,560
where Gesus was from.

1716
01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:34,880
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I got the well. I can be

1717
01:54:34,960 --> 01:54:38,159
found once a month on thut Cram Synicot right here

1718
01:54:38,159 --> 01:54:40,359
on the peaking in his show. I can be found

1719
01:54:40,359 --> 01:54:43,800
elsewhere on my telegram channel and my own show of

1720
01:54:44,039 --> 01:54:48,439
Fundamental Principle, which is mostly religious focused. But please take

1721
01:54:48,439 --> 01:54:51,239
a look at that if you're so inclined. Uh, And

1722
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:54,359
like I said, please please please. I know I say

1723
01:54:54,399 --> 01:54:57,239
this all the time. Please support the people that don't

1724
01:54:57,239 --> 01:54:59,399
lie to you, which, you know, five bucks, mind, I

1725
01:54:59,439 --> 01:55:01,279
seem like a lot to you, but but it's a

1726
01:55:01,319 --> 01:55:03,399
lot to us. So you know, kick some kick some

1727
01:55:04,840 --> 01:55:07,680
kick a couple bucks into pizza, pizza guitar case. I

1728
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:10,159
think he does a pretty good good job singing for everybody.

1729
01:55:10,199 --> 01:55:12,000
So thank you very much for having me against her.

1730
01:55:13,079 --> 01:55:16,000
Of course, all right, gentlemen, thank you, thank you.