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Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekan Yana Show.
Well this is going to be a different one. What's
going on?
Speaker 3: Burdo, Hey, what's up, man. I don't know what I'm
getting my self into here, but yeah, it's gonna be
a different one.
Speaker 1: Well, if dark Enlightenment comes along in uh in fifteen
or twenty minutes, yeah, things could get really wild, really quick.
So yeah, and and as just on this happened by providence.
I'm releasing that. I'm releasing this on May seventh.
Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, okay, everybody better turn the TV on.
Speaker 1: I guess is that the verse?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It's gonna it's it's gonna take here's
a I'm gonna do some predicting. It's gonna take a
few days. I think that's a safe bet. It's gonna
take a few days. Yeah, I mean, I don't really
think that they actually know. I don't think anybody actually knows.
Every time I see a list of possible popes, it's
two or three different guys. Every time. People have no
idea this time, which everybody knew Francis was going to
be the pope last time. I think Benedict wasn't so sure,
but John Paul was very sure also, So half of
the time, at least in the modern you get people
who were all very sure of and then now nobody
is sure of who it will be, and so yeah,
I guess today is the day where the conclave begins,
but things will only start heating up as the Vatican
insiders start getting tidbits, probably the following day. Yeah, so
that's the conclave. It should be one hundred and thirty
five electors, maybe one hundred and thirty four. Bet you
dipped out, which everybody expected because of the he was
involved in some banking scandal. So he's out, and there
may be one cardinal who's not going to attend, So
you have like one hundred and thirty three. Eighty percent
of them were appointed by Pope Francis. Then this is
where everybody gets to in the conversation. Well, that's pretty stacked.
It is stacked. It's not historically, in particular, very stacked.
Francis is appointed I think two more cardinals per year
of his papacy than the next top guy, which was
if I'm not mistaken, it was Benedict. So it's not
a huge amount of difference in the years. But he
has eighty percent of the cardinalship, and so that's the
field of play, and everybody is wondering, well, who among
these men will become the pope. There's basically three factions,
three major factions that exist.
Speaker 1: This is about so mirror This is so mirroring the election,
the election and wondering who's going to you know, Trump
has like three factions of elites around him. Biden has
put in eighty percent of the freaking judges. I mean,
this is this is.
Speaker 3: It's totally political. Yeah, ye, completely political. It's not the
only time in history it's been very political, but it
is very political right now. So, uh, Francis has the
largest block predictably, about half of all of the cardinals.
There a couple of different Vaticans and Sounders have done
their indexes of how they think they'll vote. Of course,
all of this is speculative, but Pope Francis's vision is
very pastoral and ecumenical and geoe geo politically focused on
the periphery. That's a friendly way to put it. So
he he's got about half of the cardinals who are
just ready to vote for the next guy. Francis two.
And then you have a second faction that makes them
about a fifth of the cardinalship, which wants to kind
of keep the Curia out of scandals. I would call
that the centrist faction. They're one of their primary concerns
is ensuring that some of the hallmark moments of Francis's papacy,
the vagueness, lack of communication. They're kind of hoping maybe
we can put a lid on that gets someone who's
a little bit clearer in their doctrines. And then you
have just a very small third traditionalist faction, you know,
the liturgical restorationists. They want the doctrinal clarity. But that
is the full breakdown, and you need they're going to
need eighty six to ninety votes for one cardinal in
order to have that election. It's going to be a
two thirds majority. And so I don't know, there's a
lot of names that have been going around, so I
figured I would do my typical deep dive into some
of the names. I figured this would be a topic
everybody wanted to know about. So anyway, that's the breakdown
of the how the election is going to work in
very short.
Speaker 1: Yeah, who oh, I don't want you to make predictions
yet and go through everything, and we can let you
figure out who you think which faction is going to
win out. I mean, do you think all right here
let me let me ask you this, do you think
that there is any influence that anybody is going to
take into consideration the fact that like what they's what
they've been saying about how priests have been ordained in
the last ten years or overwhelm conservative Is it too
early for that? Do we need another couple papacies?
Speaker 3: So the only people who really have any effects of
the cardinals, and so until that flips, I don't think so.
We sort of based on public opinions, all these guys are.
They're cardinals, so they they're constantly talking to the media
that that centrist group that you're seeing that is really
the that is really the model that's moving towards a
handshake between that center and the youth, most of the
youth in terms of the young clergy, the priests who
are coming up. The influence is that they could possibly
have on the papacy won't come if I have to guess,
for at least another two papacies. The average papacy length
is fourteen years in the modern since nineteen hundred, so
twenty eight years from now you can start to see
that changes. People start getting put into the places of
archbishops and cardinalships. But it's very difficult because our church,
it doesn't operate on the time scales of empires or
democratic republics. It really operates on a completely separate and
very long term time scale. So it could be for
all I know, it could be one hundred years until
there is a bend back into a conservative approach. It
really all depends on the geopolitics and how the Church
is pressed from the outside. And so the quickest possibility
is that a lot of that conservative youth, a lot
of the clergy who have the chance, are coming from
South America, which has a burgeoning right wing priestly movement,
and then Asia. These are the two countries probably with them.
By Asia, I mean like South Asia, like India in particular,
there's a lot of conservatives coming out of there. But
in terms of Europe.
Speaker 1: I've met some very extremely conservative Indians, Indian priests and
Filipinos also. I still don't want them to be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I the the the Western Europeans who have for
the majority of the Church's history made up I mean
Italians have have made up the bulk of the popes
in history. But as far as Western Europeans go, do
you know the Sonodal way. Do you know? Do you
know what the Sonoda way is? Should I explain that ahead?
It's so, this a Nodal way is a conference, an
ongoing conference that was begun I think in twenty thirteen,
and the subjects of the conference were a lot of
very challenging things like the celibacy among priests, contraceptives, how
the church vieuse homosexuality. A lot of these public conversations
were being held basically because it was kind of a
hand extended out by the Holy See to Germany, where
there are a huge number of priests and bishops. I
think that the top guys called Botsker or something like that.
This is an extremely progressive, leftist group of priests this
region and so and Germany has the most clout besides
Italy of any Catholic country in Europe in terms of
the money they bring into the church, in terms into
the visibility of the church. And so there was kind
of a handshake that was done to allow the priests
the bishops to speak more freely on their views of
how the church was changing in Germany in particular, this
was a hand extended to the German Church and what
it indicated was is that Europe traditionally the place we
got our popes from is nowhere near where cardinals would
feel comfortable bringing people in. I don't expect there to
be many more cardinals from the Frances Bloc. I didn't
expect there to be too many more cardinal appointments from
that area for a while. Of course, if we start
to see that, then we know the way the church
is going. So the chances increasingly, the chances of there
being a year European pope, I think unless it's an Italian,
tend to dwindle. I think the Italians have a kind
of a perennially good opportunity of becoming the pope. They
always make up a huge number of the cardinalship, Like
I think there's sixty Italians right now, something crazy like that.
And this is after the kind of DEI push. I
don't mean that in quite as disrespectful a way as
people normally say it. All these guys are highly qualified
for the job, speak multiple languages, have multiple degrees. But yeah,
they definitely opened it up to the parts of the
world that are becoming Catholic quicker, which is South Asia,
Southeast Asia, Latin America, Africa. So I don't unless it's
an Italian. I don't see a grand possibility of there
being a German or a French or an English. I
just don't see it as possible. Just to kind of
address that particular desire that a lot of people have,
you're gonna have to become comfortable with the idea of
an extremely stern Sri Lankan for a little while. And
just remember that that's where Thomas went after he left
the Holy Land. He went there anyway, that's that, that's
the the chance of that.
Speaker 1: Do you think that he really thinks they would pick
a Sri Lankan or someone like that.
Speaker 3: No, I don't around. I'll go I'll go into who
I think is not electable. The Sri Lankan that I
had in mind is Cardinal Malcolm ron Jief he ish.
Speaker 1: I think he owns doesn't he work at the gas station?
Speaker 2: By me? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think he helped get back into America if I
had the guess, Yeah, he's at the upper age limit
for a new pope. He's seventy seven. It's at best
he could be transitional, but he does not command a
very strong voting bloc. He is one of the church's
great champions of the old Latin mass. He's been vocally oppositional,
in particular to female altar servers in the Archdiocees banned
them completely, very anti globalist, very clear along the doctrinal lines.
And he's probably the most the major voice for South
Asia's Catholic conservative population. I mean, if if a guy
like that was elected, it would be an unprecedented change
away for this. This is this is Malcolm ron ron Je.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting. I wonder what his opinion is on
Islam because the two Indian priests I've known in the
past couple of years, they would go out of their
way crap on Islam in the middle of a homily
on a Tuesday Mass.
Speaker 3: He is to answer your question, he's extremely vocally challenging
towards Islam. But okay, so what about.
Speaker 1: What about that other polytheistic religion.
Speaker 3: We'll get to that, don't you worry. Okay, We'll got
Oh you mean Hinduism not a people, Oh no, no, no, no,
I'm talking about the other one. There could be a bunch.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the one that's in that little Middle
Eastern country that causes so many problems.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll get to that. All right, we'll get to that.
But okay, you don't want to Sri Lankan. Fine, But
how about Cardinal Christoph Schanborn. You're German and Austrian in fact, Well,
he is a very progressive pastor. He's unlike to be
voted in, but his name was going around. He does
not have a very clear base. So he's very much
against the ordination of female deacons. But he's very much
in favor of divorced and remarried couple's remarriage. So he's
got some weird opinions. He's very progressive on LGBTQ issues,
of course, you know, not very good and so he
he's out. So there's a German for you. He's kind
of out. Now let's do an African. Let's do the
number one African, Cardinal Robert Sarrah. That's not gonna happens.
Speaker 1: Old, I'll that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3: He's seventy nine years old. He was associated for a
long time with the Dicastery for Divine Worship, but he
had a very tense, openly tense relationship with Francis over
priestly celibacy and the Latin mass. So there's not a
chance he's getting in all right. The majority of electors
are not in his camp, and having a kind of
open tension with the previous pope is just not That's
not going to work.
Speaker 2: So he's out.
Speaker 1: I don't want him in there for other reasons, but
go on.
Speaker 3: So I'll give you another German Luxemburgish. Actually i'll give
you a Luxemburgish option. Jean Claude Holleric Cardinals. Jean Claude
Holleriic sixty eight years old, so he's in an ideal
age range. But he's an extremely progressive key figure in
the Synod on cinidality, which is related to what I
was talking about before the sonodal way, he has openly
suggested the Church needs to rethink its teachings on homosexuality,
which he says are currently wrong, and he wants quote
a fundamental revision of the doctrine. This is the Noyd pick.
If you're a true Vatican conspiracy theorist, this is the
guy that you want to be picked to confirm your
theory the most. This is the guy. Holleric has downplayed
his chances there. He has said there are many cardinals
who are far more qualified, which essentially just means I'm
gonna let me keep focusing on Germany. Put someone else
in there, so his chances are fairly slim. I think.
So that's that. How about an American, you want an
American option?
Speaker 1: What kind of American is he?
Speaker 3: New Jersey.
Speaker 1: Italian?
Speaker 3: I don't know. Irish Cardinal Joseph Tobin, he's the Archbishop
of New Jersey. Also progressive, very close ally. Pope francis
very much pastoral, socially conscious. Scott basically the same kind
of views on all the issues that all the other
progressives have. He's a tremendously large man. There is kind
of an unspoken rule against electing popes from the United States.
So the chance is zero. The chance will always be
zero anybody in the United States.
Speaker 1: Hey, look, the city of London has their first Lord
Mayor who's an American. You never know what could happen.
Speaker 3: It is possible, it is possible. Finally, let me give
you another one who will not be elected. Cardinal Pierre
Bautista Pizza Bala. Everybody loves Pierre Bautista Pizza Bala because
he's become increasingly popular as the Jerusalem patriarch. He was
only made a cardinal two years ago, maybe even it
was last year, so it's very unlikely that he'll be elected.
He's good on all the issues. I'm sure he would
be even better on a lot of the issues if
he was given the opportunity. And I think a guy
like this will be excellent in the next conclave, which
is likely to be fifteen twenty years from now. He's sixty,
so he could be seventy two in a reasonable amount
of time for the following conclave, depending on who comes in.
So it's possible, but it's not likely now he's too young.
The issue that he is really good on, you know,
that issue that is not an issue that the church
is going to be tackling anytime soon, as evidenced by
other than the condemnations, as evidenced by most of the church,
that besides condemnation, there isn't a lot of action diplomatically
that's going to be taken on this.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I would think that if or already there
is probably push from a certain group that he would
not become pope. And plus if he became pope, I
think a lot of people, a lot of people would
have problems with that because he could possibly be Pope
for twenty five or thirty years.
Speaker 3: The thing is, though, that there's Nataniello in particular, has
been very disrespectful to Pope Francis, very very disrespectful to
the church and these guys at this level. You know,
there's no Catholic apac right, so when their guy and
these guys love Francis, Francis think if the church, if
the church continues in the progressive way, Francis will become
mythologogized to something like a Leo. I mean, he was
a true champion for pastoralists, even not leftist pastoralists, which
I don't think he gets enough credit for. He is
a champion of the pastoral generation, and they're just I
don't imagine the disrespect combined with the fact that the
cardinalship the church really doesn't rely on a lot of
outside money, if you know what I mean that. I
do think that increasingly you're gonna see from the progressive wing,
which isn't too unexpected, more opposition in that subject matter.
It was Francis who appointed Peer Pizzavallah to that position,
I mean just a year and a half ago, during
the middle of everything going on. So he knew what
he was doing. He made him a cardinal. I mean,
so he knew what he was doing. And I think
that that kind of trend actually is going to continue
no matter how left the pilot's bend towards. I actually
do think that'll continue.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: So you're basically rolling out everyone who won't get there.
Speaker 3: Do you have a middle group? I have the ones
I think who have a chance, and I have the
one who I think will become the pope. So I'll
give you my list of who I think has a chance,
and then I'll just say who I think gets it.
So there. Firstly, there is Cardinal Matteo Zoopi. He's an Italian.
He is the Archbishop of Bologna, and he is known
for his piece work. He was Francis's peace envoy. He
was known for brokering peace mediations and contracts in Mozambique.
That's kind of where he's known from. And he's also
known a as a member, a key member of the
son A Gedio community, the son of Gudio community. I mean,
there's a lot of ways one could express what that
organization is, but for the convenience of your listeners, I'll
say the Sonagdeo community was one of the key groups
that it was responsible for organizing migrant corridors into Europe
through Ethiopia. So that's the kind of thing that he's
up to. As far as liturgy goes, he is a traditionalist,
friendly progressive. He is more friendly towards the traditional Latin
mass than Francis was. He actually performed traditional Latin masses
in Italy, where it has a very different connotation than
it does in the United States, and Francis not only
didn't have a problem with him doing it, he promoted
him a number of times. They performed a traditional Latin
Mass in the Pantheon and it was a huge event
and people were wondering if Zupy was going to get
in trouble for this huge event, and there's nothing. Francis
was fine with it, and then he promoted him a bunch.
So that's a kind of a weird thing. You almost
never see traditional old mass support among this faction, but
he is I would call him center left politically, but
he is a strong advocate for the migrants. He is
a peace envoy in Ukraine and as far as I
looked into the issues, he just wants to get the
peace done, which is fine with me. And he's pastorally
been very open on woman's ordination into religious dialogue with Islam.
And he's got a very globalist outlook. Out of the
list of all the guys that I have, he's the
only one who talked about Fidukia simplicans. He made some
statements about it like, well, this is a very very
challenging document and we're gonna have to take a lot
of time to think about how to apply it. So
he wasn't all in on Fidukia Sipplicons either. He's made
some good statements about Israel Gaza, and then he made
some very curious ones. He's repeatedly refused to call it
a genocide that came out of nowhere. I remember the
conversation where he was like, it's not a genocide, and
then he condemned anti Semitism, I think, in the same conversation.
So he's Italian, and he's got a lot of pastoral
charisma and closely tied to Francis, which could be a
liability for the conservatives, but I think he's got it.
So that's zupy zupe I say Zoopi is Francis too.
He would be the most direct transition into a continuation
of a pastorally. Francis like papacy the chances that I
give him. What do you think.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that there are so many who
are the open border fagots who are like, okay with
the Latin Mass. It's kind of weird.
Speaker 3: You mean in America, Well, I mean no of the one.
Well that's true in America too, I think, yeah, yeah,
it's yeah. They The thing is, I think these guys
they view especially because he's Italian, I think the way
they view the traditional Latin Mass is different than the
way that Americans do in that you know, there's lots
of different kinds of liturgies. The next guy we'll talk
about is from the Philippines. There is a particular like
liturgical addition to the Novas Ordo which is specifically for Filipinos,
So it has Filipino hymnals in it, stuff like that.
And so I think the way that a lot of
the Italian progressive or otherwise view the traditional Latin Mass
is an ethnic liturgy in the same way that.
Speaker 1: The American Filipino and do Americans just see it as reactionary.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I can't say that about all Americans, but
it's pretty clear. I think to everybody that the Latin Mass,
the Latin Mass is an environment, not as a mass.
The mass is perfectly good. The Latin Mass is an
environment attracts people who are basically on their way to
leaving the church. And there's a lot of people in
the Latin Mass who are not interested in anything like that,
of course, but it is a pipeline in the same
way there's like online you know, converts to Catholicism or Orthodoxy.
There's a particular kind of culture that's not the same
as what's expressed on the ground or in the churches.
It's very much the same kind of situation. So I
don't think that I think in America when you when
an American says I go to traditional Latin Mass, it
means I don't approve of the Holy See. I don't
approve the way the Holy Sea is going. And this
mass is an expression of a kind of authenticity I
feel I can't get from the Novus Ordo, which true
or otherwise. The Holy See looks at that and kind
of realizes that this is a schism in the making
and I'm not going to say it's fair, because it's
not fair because when you look at the synod on sinidality,
when you look at the German Sonoda way, the kinds
of things that the Germans have done in opposition to
the Holy See are dramatically more bold and dramatically more
arrogant than what American traditionalists have said and done. But
that's just the way the cookie crumbles right now. I'm
just trying to explain what the relationship is. It's not
to say I like it.
Speaker 2: Okay, go on, all.
Speaker 3: Right, Next guy, Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagel. I think it's Tagel,
I don't know, from the Philippines. A video is going
around of him singing John Legend's Imagine to defend the guy.
Speaker 1: I'll defend John Legend or John Lennon.
Speaker 3: John Lennon, John Lennon. He was singing Imagine to karaoke,
but it was apparently a version of the song that
didn't have any of the bad references towards how you know,
Heaven's not real. It was just kind of the chorus
or something is modified. And also he is Filipino, so
you kind of expect them to do karaoke, so it
may just be a different kind of thing. Anyway, He's
the most prominent Asian prelate, at least in the Francis block.
I would say Cardinal Zen is also a prominence, but
maybe we'll talk about him in the next set. Not
not because of him, but he's got a relationship to
my third choice. But before we get to him. Tagel
is often called the Asian Francis. So you have Francis
too in Zupie, and you have the Asian Francis in Tagel.
He is firmly progressive, though not as much as Zupi.
In my study, Vatigan two inspired very dilogical, mercy centric
pastoral style, has a very inculturated liturgy. I can't even
begin to pronounce what it's called, but I described it already.
He's never done a Latin Mass. He does this inculturated
liturgy that is the novas Orto. But it has Filipino
elements to it. Nothing like folk religious or anything like that.
Just again hymns the language. Stuff like that. As far
as politics and diplomacy go, no big surprise. Huge advocate
for migrants refugees scolded Europe numerous times, which is totally
in line with what all of them do, aligns with
that global liberal agenda on climate change and world poverty.
And he was involved in the Vatican China relations deal,
which was very controversial. I'll talk about that soon. So
he's socially, I would say he's more conservative than Zoopi,
but pastorally he's very gentle. So he's for instance, he's
lamented about the harsh language that people have towards homosexuals.
He is a very strong proponent for cinidality in general,
stronger than Francis was, I think. And he's had a
lot of inter religious dialogue, especially with Islam and in
the Philippines obviously they have a big problem with Islamic terrorism,
and he's had a unpredictably I thought he would have
a strong opinion on it, but he's had an unpredictably
weak public opinion on Islamic terror and the potential for
it in the Islamic community. So I'm surprised by that
this guy. So basically his benefit is that he's Francis
but Asian. So the cardinalship really is going to be
determining between Zoope and Tagel. Do they want Francis or
do they want Asian Francis, and out of those two,
I'm leaning they want Francis to not Asian Francis. I mean,
the Asian block is not the smallest block, but the
Latin Americans will probably vote for a European and probably
the Africans will too, if I had to guess anyway,
that's Tagel. Tagel would be a clear sign that the
Church has fully turned its gaze towards the global South,
which has been in the works for about eighty years now,
so it wouldn't be too unexpected if it ended up happening. Anyway,
That's Tagel.
Speaker 2: Who do we have next?
Speaker 3: We have Paroline, Cardinal Pietro Paroline. This is the elite
theory pick in my opinion. He is a career Vatican diplomat.
He was the secret the Secretary of State under the Pope.
He was in the Pope's Council. The Pope Francis created
a Council of Cardinals. His Inner nine Paroline is the
most recent addition to it. He's of the Right Age.
I think he's seventy doctrinally fairly orthodox, but very wary
of the Latin mass in America. Basically very similar to
Francis' opinion of the Latin Mass in America, which is
the opinion I expressed already. He was the chief architect
of the very controversial Vatican China deal. Have you do
you do you know about the Vatican China Deal?
Speaker 1: No, I don't explain it to everyone.
Speaker 3: Do you know about the the investitures of the investiture
crisis is something that happened in Europe and it was
basically the appointment of bishops by the state before the
approval of the Church. So that's going on in China.
It's going on in China like every day. They're doing
this every day. They just I think they just brought
six more bishops in since France's past, so they are
The Chinese are predictably really testing the boundaries because they
know they have all the leverage, which is why a
lot of people view Parolene's Vatican deal as a total
failure because it doesn't really there's no real bargaining chips
on the part of the Vatican and the Cardinal Zen,
who I think will be a saint. But by the
time all things are said and done, Cardinals Zen a
Hong Kong cardinal. He's currently still under arrest for challenging
the Chinese Communist Party and protecting Chinese Catholics. They just
let him out on bail so he could participate in
this whole thing, And it's just sad to see the
guy hobbling along with his cane. This true hero of
the church and the guy that opposed him greatly is
probably going to be the guy who's the next pope,
which is Parolin. Now that's Paroline's done a lot of
really great diplomatic acts in the past for the Church.
US Cuba was a huge success for him, but the
China thing is really a black stain. I think it
was a terrible deal. I think it's something that he
needs to walk back. I don't know if he will,
but luckily he is firmly pro life, pro traditional marriage.
He called the Irish vote for to make legal homosexual
marriages a defeat for humanity. He's fully supportive of Francis's
line on communion for the divorced and remarried. It's a
very similar line, which is to say, there's a lot
of paperwork that has to be done and nullments have
to be done. It's a lot less liberal than some
of the more progressive opinions on this. He has a
very diplomatic dialogue style overall totally unmatched in terms of
governance experience. He knows the Curia very well, probably the
only cardinal who everybody knows him personally within the College.
He's also Italian, which is great for that cardinalship, and
he's politically fairly neutral. I think this would be the
most likely election. Again, if you're an elite theorist, you
can see why. I mean, this is the guy with
the power even during Francis's papacy. Obviously Francis at any
time could lift a finger and say stop, and Parolene
had to stop. But Paroline was really the gray eminence
of the last papacy, knows everybody, has a lot of power,
pulls a lot of strings behind the scene, never really
upsets very many people besides Cardinals Zen and the Chinese Catholics.
So I think this is the safest bet is Paralleine
and now, really those are the top three, Pete, those
are the top three. I think Paroline will get elected
not because he controls the largest block, but I think
he'll get elected because he will split the Francis block.
When Francis and the Francis Block is trying to choose
between Zoopy and Tagel, which is basically Italians versus the
global South voting in there. I don't think either of
them will be able to shift any of the Conservatives
or any of Paroline's centrist voters, and eventually they're just
going to have to fall in line to a kind
of compromise candidate, which will be paralleine. That is my analysis.
Obviously I could totally be wrong, we could be totally surprised,
but that is the bulk of it. Now. We could
talk about the other options, but I just want to
get your thoughts on it first.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean it's all politics.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one hundred percent politics.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the you know, the person who, and this is
almost what at this point, it's more like a caucus
in an election.
Speaker 3: Well there are blocks, Yeah, there are ideological blocks.
Speaker 1: So whoever can get the blocks to collapse into each other,
they get what they want.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And unlike in a democratic system where there is
at least that facade that comes in terms of you know,
a democratic vote, the guy who, it's still a popularity contest,
but it's because it's so much smaller. The guy who
can kind of whip everybody into voting, which I think
is Parallene. He's going to be the guy, and I
think they look at his age and they go, you
know what, he might only be around for another eight
to ten years. So it's good enough for us to
kind of stabilize after Francis's transformative regime, to kind of
have a guy who will kind of carry things on
slowly get the church out of the news. Honestly, as
a Catholic in terms of what is possible, I think
Parolene is our best chance because I kind of agree
we kind of have to get out of the news.
We really have to get out of the news. And
the Catholic Church in America has to go on unopposed
and needs to pick up the slack because the Holy
See is not interested in it. And I think that's
how we have to move forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's not going to be I mean,
there could be by divine intervention, there could be a
revolutionary kind of you know, move of some sort, but
it just doesn't seem like that's what's going to happen.
You know, as as we get closer to the end
of an age and we're starting another age than basically
everything sick, everything is weakened. And you know, you could
see that I'm pretty much every church is, you know.
And I love my Orthodox friends, but even they even
they have to admit the church they go to is
the base church because they all know an Orthodox church
it's not based, you know, And they all know that
the I forget what they call their guy in Chicago
was running and telling everybody to get the jab, you know,
in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. So yeah, all
all of these churches are sick at this point, and
it's just going to take a radical kind of move,
a radical kind of shift in consciousness in order for
this to take take on a more traditional bent, or
it's going to evolve into something completely different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it could be either. It's it's we are the
churches in this this period of time that the church
is in right now is very progressive, and the church
will come out of it and will become very conservative again,
and then it will probably oscillate as it has throughout history.
It will continue too. And I think that's the main
point for a lot of Catholics. You have to remember,
is that you exist in a very short period of
time and of church's very long history. There is a
cosmic trust the plan to a lot of this, but
it doesn't mean you have to be satisfied with any
of it. I have to say I'm really not particularly
satisfied with any of the possible options. You know, there's
also a Cardinal Peter Erdo. I think that's how you
pronounce it, my Hungarian friends, I'm probably got that wrong,
so I forgive me. But you know, he's considered the
most theologically conservative, and by that people mean that he
has Benedict the sixteenth theology, which is not particularly conservative.
So I think he's being propped up as the conservative option,
and I just don't even I don't even see that there.
So I see a lot of people winding themselves up
into thinking that a theological conservative has an opportunity here,
and I just I think that's kind of you're just
winding yourself up for nothing.
Speaker 2: You there, d E Yeah, I am.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, great time for you to to step in
bird dark Enlightenment and you can call them d D Bird.
Speaker 3: Oh, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2: I love the show timely that is one of my favorites.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 2: It's precisely as serious as our times deserve.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad this one, as we've done it so far,
didn't go too serious. It's I kind of realized halfway
through doing the research for this there was a kind of, uh,
it's so over feeling as I got further and further
into the list of them. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I talked to him briefly on my show.
Speaker 3: And who did you have? Who were your the ones
you covered?
Speaker 2: Tagley? Of course, Prolyn the Muller's not that great. I mean,
you know, like this is the thing that people need
to understand is is the whole institution is rotten from
top to bottom with people who who think that you know,
like like yesterday's radicals are somehow these arch conservatives. It's
like no, no, Like Bennedic sixteenth was a parade at
the Council in a suit and tie. You know, Mueller talk.
Speaker 3: I like Benedict, but there's a lot of myth making
about that, a lot of fond looking back as though
it wasn't an extension of John Paul the.
Speaker 2: Second Right, And and you know, Benedict talked about the
abuse crisis, but he didn't do Anything's head of CDF right,
like you know, like who made macer a cardinal jump
all the second? Who made Brigoglio cardinal jump all the second? Who?
You know, like the the entire and too you know,
state my position. I'm I'm firmly convinced that that Brigoglia
was never a pope. That either either between the invalidity
of of Benedict's resignation and or the canvassing ahead of
time per University of Domini gregis by jump all the
second occurring excommunications for all people involved, like somehow Brigolia
was never a pulp. I'm not a nineteen fifty eight
said a contest. I have some sympathies in that direction,
but the idea that like Perilin is like somehow or
zoopis like Catholic and we need to respect that. And
then like no, these guys like they put it on
my own show, Like if you think women deacons are okay,
you're not in a position to be pulp because you're
not Catholic. You're not even really.
Speaker 3: Yes that that was explicitly Zoopi's possession.
Speaker 2: Right right, which is why I brought him up real
likely and you can go into and you know, like
Turksan's not that great, right.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I have Turks in here as my fifth
most likely. I think he's like the weird candidate if
there's something weird goes.
Speaker 2: On, right, you know, Toggley is sitting there like in
a golf shirt singing.
Speaker 3: Imagine yeah yeah, like what did I say.
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 3: When it is brutal, like.
Speaker 2: You know, oh my gosh, like to have some self respect, Matt,
you know, and there's just not It's.
Speaker 3: What Filipinos do. They like karaoke though, That's what.
Speaker 2: And I understand that as a Filipino, he's genetically uh
loves karaoke.
Speaker 3: They love karaoke, Yeah, they love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But you know, like you're a cardinal prince of
the church, like I am absolutely absolutely certain that you know,
whoever rents karaoke machines can be told, Hey, the cardinal
Archbishop of Manila wants a karaoke machine. Take the job,
and he'd like when installed in his episcopal palace. Don't
tell anybody, and here's an extra thousand bucks for you, Like,
just have some sense of self respect as opposed to
like showing him a Gulf shirt and doing like your
best like uh, like early, what was that show where
all the singing was terrible to start, like a American idol, Yeah, America,
like your best American idol impression, Like right, just no
self respect. It's just like, you know, I don't I
don't like do things I'm really bad at in public
republic assumption because I have enough self respect for my
for myself and others that I that I don't like
deliberately go and make a fool myself just because it
would be funny, you know, So.
Speaker 3: It is it is worth mentioning. I forgot. I neglected
to say this in uh going through the five who
I chose, but none of them I think they are
all secular priests. I don't think any of them are
a part of any religious orders. But uh, Tagel, how
are you saying it? That's what I thought, Yeah, okay,
Uh tog Ley, it was educated by Jesuits, and I
knew that, and I kind of had the sense of
that when I saw the golf shirt, I was like,
that has to be there has to be some Jesuit
influence in there, and indeed it is.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, of course, right, because because that's how you
really know someone serious with the faith is that they
that they try to be pastor Bob with the golf shirt.
It's like, no, actually, I'd rather you just wore a
cassock and like, I don't want you to be my.
Speaker 3: Buddy Jesuits love those golf shirts. I don't know where
that comes from. They really do. That's their leisure where.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very strange, It is very strange. Like I think
you're right, I don't. I don't think it's possible that
there's this you know, we're oh, just we're one second
away from you know, like a Benedict the seventeenth or
you know, God forbid, like a Leo the or a
pie Is the fourteenth or something like that. That's not
happening right now?
Speaker 3: Is it what we need?
Speaker 2: Yes? Is is there? Right? The only place of the
church is growing, right is the traditionalist movement, because that's
if you think about it for any length of time,
like more than ten minutes. Right, the whole premise of
liberalism qua liberalism is a rejection of the Catholic Church,
whether it's Rousseau or John Locke or any of these people. Right,
the heart of liberalism is a rejection of the Church.
And so you can't like combine matter and antimatter and hope
that it like all works out. You just can't. And
the sooner people realize this that the more you know, viable,
the church is going to be, you know, Benefice the
sixteenth was not wrong when he said, like the church
is going to shrink, because even you know in America,
where things are supposedly you know, the most conservative you know,
church going country in the traditional West. Yeah, the majority
of people like who are in Catholic pies are pro
game marriage quote unquote right like they're they're pro there.
They don't believe in the presence in the Eucharist. They have
basically christological errors, levels of understanding of the creed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the and the American churches is happy to
kind of write instruct people to not ask questions like
that and write like you can have your strange beliefs,
just just get you into the church. Don't tell them.
Speaker 2: Don't even tell me, right, or like Australia, you know,
like they threw pelle and jail over nonsense, right like
they threw right you know. So so it's the oh,
these other these other countries are going to be you know,
pro more pro Christian, Like, no, no, they're not. They're
just not it's it's not going to happen, and the
the oh, the third world is going to say this,
like they they're worse off. They're so syncretist, they're barely
even Christians in many cases. You know, the African bishops
will be like, we're not doing producer supergans because queers.
But also we need to revisit the whole polygamy question, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Well it's almost seems like cinidelity
is assured.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and and well, I mean truth be told, right,
if sinidelity is the thing, why not just have national
churches and be orthodox. I mean, I mean, like obviously
I'm not but and I'm not going to but but
like you just destroyed any argument for like the primacy
of Peter and the one Church, and you know, like
you just.
Speaker 3: Not Well, it's another reason why I think Paroline has
a good chance, as that kind of thing would be
totally detrimental to the power structure of the church. And
I do just see Paroline as being that option. I mean,
he's very much against the snideality thing, whereas Toglay is
very much in favor of it. I believe Zoopi is too,
So I know the Francis Block has indicated support for
some level of sinidality, but I imagine that there's going
to be something to pull back otherwise. I think that
question you just asked is what every Catholic is, certainly
in America, is going to have to ask themselves, is like,
what really what is the difference here? Then?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? I mean, like if you're going to ban
the liturgy that actually says like, hey, we believe this
stuff and we want our children to believe it, and
like this is not just you know, father Bob playing
his guitar. If you're going to ban the Old Mass,
and then you're going to say, well, the structure of
that you're is wrong, and you're not gonna like you
you're not, and you're going to go after people who
actually try and do what the Shu teaches, like why
are you here still?
Speaker 3: Right? You know?
Speaker 2: And and that's the that's ultimately the choice. Right. And unfortunately,
because conservatives you know or well who was a great
writer in many ways, right, if there's hope that lies
in the proles, no, conservatives have no revolution or potential
at all. They'll just like keep eating shit because the
institution told them to, because they they they have. They
don't think hard. Like if they're told like Mass is
this good thing that's going to be high culture, they'll
be like okay. If they're told like Mass is going
to be these you know, guitar stuff, they'll be like okay,
and they'll just go along. Look at look at you,
look at twenty twenty, like like they just yeah, we're
gonna blatantly steal the election and lock you all inside.
Your house is over like a bad cold that we
put right. Oh okay, yeah, I guess, uh that's that's fine. Yeah,
So how how are these people going to you know,
like actually save anything. They just went along with the
destruction of the church. You know, baptismince down ninety marriage
is down ninety percent. You know, like, show me when
indication in the church outside of the traditionalist movement that's
actually going places.
Speaker 3: It's just not I really do think that the church
has turned its size away from the West for I mean,
for better or worse. That it's it's just turned its
eyes totally away from the West. I mean you agree with.
Speaker 2: That, yeah, oh of course, yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I mean in the sense that it's
not just that things are ineffective in the United States.
Things are going very well in other countries and other
regions in Africa, the spread of the faith is going
very well. So I don't I just don't, you know
what I mean, I don't understand why the church has
turned its sides away from the West. Is it the
problems that we have just can't be confronted. Is Americanism
so deeply entrenched they just are willing to build up
to a schism. I don't what do you think?
Speaker 2: I think that there's been a defactive schism for at
least twenty years, Like the amount of time, like I
was deeply deeply involved in many you know, like pro
JP two things, and the amount of American bishops who
just was like, yeah, that's nice, but you know, we're
going to be we're going to be pro contraception in
this diocese, or we're going to be pro abortion in
this diocese, or we're going to be you know, communists
or whatever. So that's just how it goes, you know.
I think that I think that the church thinks that
without that, like there's this tension that they can hold
on to, that they can hold onto both wings be
you know, for lack of a bet from the apostate
left wing and the and the you know, genuine believer
wing in the West, and that they'll continue to fund
things and that they'll have this upswell of believers from
the Third world. But you know, Brazil used to be
the biggest Catholic country in the world in terms of.
Speaker 3: Population, and it's not anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, because frankly, you know, their worlds are kind
of stupid, and the Catholic theology is complicated, and when
they're told, you know, like that Islam is growing fast
in those countries, you know, low church Protestantism, which is
frankly kind of stupid. I mean, Pete will tell you
all about it.
Speaker 1: Look getting me in trouble.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that, yeah, I think that's I mean,
that's kind of built into the system as there's going
to be some kind of low church proliferation. That's and
really that's not even my personal concern. You know, it's
not good for the church, but it's not really even
my personal concern. I just sort of wonder because we
have an we have our quote unquote national Church in
the United States, we have our bishops, we have our archbishops.
I think the eye the eyes have to turn back
towards that. I think as far as the Holy Sea goes,
this is going to be like this. I was telling
people for like, this could be the one hundred years
of this style before there's any significant change in the
move away from pastoralism or anything of the sort of.
And this could be one hundred years. So it doesn't
even seem like there's a great reason to Oh yeah, well,
can I say engage with the Holy see you know
what I mean? No, not not to not to stand
in opposition to it, but you know it's you're not excommunicated,
you're not in penalty of sin. Go do your sack
and be the best Catholic you cannot. I think the
promise is still there for the individual, but so as
to not scandalize anybody away from the church. But the
challenges to the structure of the church are there. They're
very real, and they are there, and so coordination will suffer.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, And I think that the most important thing
people can do is just I mean it doubled down on.
I was not around for the for how bad things
got in the seventies and eighties in the trad move
right like where there we are, you know, masses in
hotel ballrooms and that kind of thing. I got to
know some of those people as I as I got
older that I've talked to them, and we're just going
to have to build for the long haul outside of it.
And that just that sounds like a really non Catholic
thing to say. But if you if you want to
preserve it the faith, which is the most important thing,
right the first law of the church's salvation of souls.
If you want to actually save souls, if you want
to actually you know, take the baptism promises you make
when your children are baptized. Seriously, you're going to have
to do what people are doing now. You're going to
have to homeschool them, educate them out outside of the parish.
You know CCD program where people will tell you that
women priests are coming in a day and they're okay,
and you know, it's.
Speaker 3: Just plenty of good homeschool curriculums approved by the Holy See,
by the way, and I mean they are good, solid,
yeah curriculums.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to use those. And you're going
to have to you know, you're going to have to
be wherever you choose to hang your hat ecclesiastically, whether
it's look at diasis in parish or local adult mass
or with society or whatever, You're going to have to
be very deliberate about where and how you go about
saving your soul. And you just aren't gonna be able
to count on anybody in a pointing hat because the
guy in the pointing hat cares about not getting heat
from Rome, cares about you know, getting his government checks,
or you know, actively just doesn't care. Because in nineteen
seventy eight, if you wanted to be a man in
address and saying Broadway show tunes and dressed fabulous, you
had to enter the you know that priesthood. And so
that's that's what happened. Right now we can say that
those guys are getting old now, but you know, all
these j JP two types thought that, you know, the
biological soution was imminent and no, no, look at what
happened with Francis, Like, there are way more of the
the people who are more pro liberalism in the church
than you thought. And even the people that you thought
are conservative aren't all that conservative. Look a look at
the Showanborn for instance, right, he was the editor of
the Better than Any four Catechism, and you know, he's
like just a liberal company man now, right, because that's
what he always was. Because Jompo the second was a
modern conservative, you know, who tried to try to move
the council. Uh and and so he wrote that, I
don't know.
Speaker 3: I think at an individual level, you've got to uh,
you've got you've got to I don't know. I here,
So I'll put it this way. I don't think that
this kind of trend is inevitable. I think this is
very much an element of the culture war, and that
at some point it will change, totally change. But I
I I don't know how you feel about that.
Speaker 2: I think I think if it changed, changes because there's
just no more culture where to fight, and it will
be obvious that that, you know, conservatives decisively lost, right.
I mean that's yeah, that's just not right. You have
to fight it in order for it to or you
have to understand that you're actually going to fight in
order for the cultural word a thing to be real.
And for the vast majority of you know, so called
right wing Catholics they don't even understand that like that,
you know, Joseph Tobin does not care if your children
go to hell or not. Like he just doesn't nighty night,
baby Tobin does not care if your children pass on
the faith to your grandchildren. Right, These are not these
are not people that are going to really really go
to the mat to try and save a Christian culture
that they don't really believe in. And that describes of
the papability you talked about, right, Yeah, you know Zoopy
at least Tagley at least you know who was uh
uh not Ardo Perilyin, Right like Perilin hates the Latins.
He really doesn't care whether or not your your grandchildren
remain in the faith or not. Doesn't matter to him,
right you know, then Victor Manuel Fernandez, the head of
the CDF, right the Holy Office, is not really super
interested in whether or not your children remain Catholic because
he helped draft the stuff that said all religious lead
to God. So right, like, it's not something that most
of these guys care about. They care about meeting their budgets.
And you know, political influence.
Speaker 1: For the most part, you know, we talk about you know,
Burnham wrote that boat the book The Managerial Revolution in
nineteen forty talking about managerialism. All you really needed to
do was study the church.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in fact, the real problem is is that
Vatican One didn't define I mean, if I define the
upper limits of people and falliability, but it didn't define
the lower end of the envelope of papal authority. And
what it effective he did is turned every bishop into
a like McDonald's branch manager or franchise manager of the sacraments.
I hate, I hate to put it that way, but
but realistically, right, if you can remove Strickland for wanting
to you know, out a genuine concern, right, you can
just remove him from his diocese, Well, then why is he,
like each bishop supreme in his own diocese? Right? Like
apparently not? Apparently he's just the branch manager for you
know so, And most people have to navigate this with
you know, granted, much less knowledge than bird is presented.
This is an outstanding document that the bird produced. No,
but but most of these prelates aren't really much interested
in whether or not, like your grandchildren, baptize their children
or get married at all. Right, And that's increasingly the
thing in the West, It's increasingly the thing all over
the place, right, creating fertility in all over Asia, creating
fertility in Latin America, marriages are down. People just like it,
just double down, double down on your little platoons. And
you know, right because the the Francis part of the
church just isn't having kids. Like you know, if if
trans disabled lesbians with two dogs are like just as welcome,
you know, if all are welcome in this place, then
the people who really genuinely believe it and reject a
lot of this stuff and have you know, whether that's
in the Siya ten through instead of country movements or whatever,
they're the only people who are going to have a future,
you know, the the African stuff. Right they might be
having four or five, six, seven kids right now, but
if you if you expose them to you know, contraception,
buffalo wildlings in PlayStation, they're they're not going they're not
going to keep doing the hard thing of like doing
what the church teaches. They're just not because they haven't
been catechized well enough to understand why it's a problem.
You know, they have the rampant syncretism problem, you know,
and uh, they're they're just going to have a real
problem in the future. And you know, for all that
that Africa might have lots of Catholics, they aren't gonna
have any money. And right now, you know the source
of a source of money for the church is the
United States and Germany.
Speaker 3: Basically, yes, I was gonna say a huge amount of
in Germany. That's the only reason why. Well, that's one
of the major reasons why the Sonoda way was tolerated
to the extent that it was right so openly.
Speaker 2: Right. But not only is that like going away? I
mean in my mind, yeah, that's in my more cynical moments,
I've described the U s c c B As a
property holding management company that has side sidelines in human
trafficking and occasionally dispensing sacraments. But the reason that that's
just not gonna continue is if all the money is
coming from, you know, places where the faith is dying,
maybe maybe, you know, a smaller, poor church might have
a future. But a church with you know, thirteen Italian
cardinals where every one of them has their own cardinal, archbishopric,
palace and all that other stuff like that's not happening. Man.
Speaker 3: It's sad, right, right. It was better when it was
led entirely by Italians. Except for one brief stint that
I can think.
Speaker 2: Of, Yeah. Why why is everyone saying the future of
the church is African? The past of the church is African?
Speaker 3: Right, all right? I saw that one going around on
the time line a bunch.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, of course, right, Like there's the Silians into
the church. What do you need.
Speaker 3: We've always been multicultural.
Speaker 2: What do you mean he's never been an African church.
Speaker 3: Pope Anthony was a Sicilian in the year three hundred
and ten. Yeah, he was the first black pope exactly.
Speaker 2: Just bands just fancy though, you know, I love you, Meds.
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, I think about someone like
Pius the twelfth, who had to deal with the worst
thing like the world has ever seen, and just how
he could he didn't have to choose sides. He could
just be who he could, just be who the Pope
was supposed to be. And I mean that's what eighty
years go. Yeah. Anyone who's ever read his letter to
the Spanish people after the war, after the Spanish Civil
War ends. If you can get through that without crying,
you're a.
Speaker 2: Better man than me. I cry every time, dude.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just goes to show that. Yeah, I was
saying this before you got on here. D Everything is
just sick. Everything is diseased, everything is poisoned. And you know,
there every one of us knows someone who's like, no,
my church is based. I'm like, yeah, but a church
it calls itself the same thing right down the road.
You have to you have to say your church is based.
You have to if you want to talk about a
based church, you have to give an address. You know.
It's it's not like you're everything is sick at this point.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, everything is sick. And you know, like Periline
is sitting here. You know, he said the Holy sequid
quote continue to educate the population towards a positive view
of mirgareants unquote. Like he's saying that from behind a
wall that's like twenty feet tall, and there's Swiss guards
with halberds everywhere, and and you know, truth be told, right,
And this is this is a big problem that the
church is going to have in the future. And that's
why I do my show. Is like, if you can't
accept the reality of like a population with an IQ
of one hundred going to church versus the population with
an IQ of seventy going to church, You're like, if
you think those are gonna be the same thing. You're
just not dealing with the real world. And you know,
an IQ seventy church is not going to produce theologians.
It's not going to produce it's hardly going to produce priests, right,
You're not gonna have it, Thomas Quantis come out of
a popula that that where you know, literacy is a
stretch for these people. And that's that's just the bare facts.
I'm not trying to black bail anybody or make anyone's
life worse or whatever. But like that, that's just reality.
And as Pete has been fun of saying lately, you know,
you haven't met the average Indian yet, right, Like if
that's you know, that's the if that's the population, that
is you know, the future of the church, like oof, right.
And I've been involved in Catholic stuff for as an adult,
you know, or a young adult for thirty years. And
you know who shows up to clean up the church?
You know it gives money to the church. You know
who does of all the volunteering, Middle aged white guys.
Speaker 3: I was going to old Yeah, older white Catholics.
Speaker 2: Yeah, middle aged white guys. That's who shows up to help.
That's who puts money in money to play it on Sunday.
That's who does most of the work in the pews, right,
It's retired ladies and middle aged guys who, you know,
do what they can. And if the if the entire
population that goes to church is used to receiving benefits
from the church and doesn't expect to put anything into
the church, which is what the calculation of their ices
Los Angeles made, and look at how well that's turned out.
You know, like it's just not going to continue from
a from a purely economic point.
Speaker 3: Of view, Yeah, you are, you are sketching out what
I think. It's pretty much an inevitable I don't know
what you'd call it, a shrinkage towards the diocese, at
least in terms of the attention and the focus. When
when something becomes globalist, when it becomes oriented towards a
global position, there just isn't going to be any liturgical unity.
And so I think we're all going to have to
as Catholics. We hopefully there's some breathing room with the
traditional Latin Mass. But I think liturgy is really going
to be the big topic of the next one hundred
years is what is the difference between liturgy and how
far does can liturgy go before we start to see
something that's just different, a different Mass that's not essentially
the same thing. And I do wonder about I wonder
how much that affects.
Speaker 2: Have you read Work in Human Hands by Father and
I anthan Ina? No? I have not picking up. It's magisterial.
It's a really, really good book. It details all the
problems with the New Mass from from a traditionalist perspective.
And I I, I think that you're there already. You
know what you're gonna see, right, And most people this
is again you know, like I love you conservative you know,
never sort of people. But but you're wrong. And here's
why that is that for you to be right, for
everything to be hunky dory and everything to be uh,
you know, new springtime whatever, the fundamentals have to be there,
and they're not. The New Mass fundamentally changes a bunch
of different stuff. You know, the nature of the Church
to other religions has a completely different orientation towards Muslims
and Jews than the Church did previously. And that's not
working out so great to be honest, right, you know,
for fourteen hundred years, the Spaniards worked like they worked
they were to get their country back from this, you know,
the Muslims for seven hundred years, and all of a sudden,
now like isabellell Peralta is going to jail for being like, hey,
didn't we fight seven hundred years to keep the Moroccans
out of Spain? And now right and the church is,
you know, the church in Germany is like we have
to vote against the AfD, like didn't you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the German church is just not making it out.
It's it's cooked, right, yeah, it's it's beyond cooked. And
I don't know, I don't I don't know. I don't
know about America though, I'm not as sure about the
United States. So I'm very sure about Germany.
Speaker 2: Well, And to the extent the church exists there, it's
it's traditionalists. I mean, it's it's society and tenth and
other traditionalist organizations are are for where there the church
has a future and people have families and people go
to mass like that's that's. It was bad when I
visited there twenty years ago, but and it's only gotten
worse since. But for the conservative diversort of types who
want everything to be okay, in the future, the the
underlying premises have to be correct, but they're not right.
Like I said earlier in the conversation, the fundamental problem
with liberalism is the same as the fundamental with Judaism,
and that is at the heart of both of them
is a rejection of Jesus Christ and a rejection of God.
That whether it's locking liberalism or or what's that rolls right?
You know, I am this mon added space and if
I can get pick anywhere or whatever, well like that,
that just completely destroys the point of families and contingent things.
And you know, the faith that you're given right like
no one, hardly anybody you know, like chooses to be
baptized as a kid, like your parents baptize you when
you're what a week old, you know, or they should,
and you are raised in a Catholic culture. And the
folks that want everything to be good in the future
sure want the foundation, they want they want the building
to stand up, but they want to remove the foundation.
And that's just it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work.
And the difference between you know, a local Democrat politician
and the uh you know, the hardcore like anarchist collectivists
in Spain, which is the weirdest thing to say, like
anarchist collectivists, But that's what they were, you know, uh
is merely a matter of degree. It's not a difference
in kind, like that they don't fundamentally disagree with premises
on on who man is and what what? You know,
what's the point of life? You know that they they
want to be. Uh is how Charles Hay would put
it right, unyoked to any unchosen non deliberately chosen bonds anywhere,
at any time forever. I think Charles Hay would puts
it better than I could ever. But and the Church
Hastics like realize that. And I don't think most of it,
Like even Urdo, who I like most of the time, right,
I don't think he fully grasps it now He's he's
doing the best job of anybody available right now. Of
like no, like Hungarians are Hungarian and that it's right
for them to want to stay Hungarian, And like Victor
Oreon isn't the worst person in the history of the
world for merely wanting, you know, as doing his job
as the Prime Minister of Hungary to promote the interests
of the Hungarian people. But I don't think that.
Speaker 3: You know, and.
Speaker 2: Certainly most of the people in any position of authority,
whether it's the church or the state, like they don't
understand anything. If they did, you know, Timeline Earth would
be getting more phone calls from important people going, hey man,
you know, it's gratifying to know that there are some
important people listening to Pete's programs and stuff like that.
But you know, to quote, you know Cardinal Sara, right,
you know, who's just not going to get in to
be a miracle if he did, right the hour is
late m you know the title of his book, right like,
and you know for most and most of you guys
are old. That's the other thing, like you can see it,
you know, in the just past Canadian elections, right like,
Canadian boomers basically handed their country over to a wirdo
central banker because they were really afraid about confronting Donald Trump.
And you know, American boomers are all out, they're doing
protests about their social security. It's like, you don't understand
how bad things are for everyone under forty or even
under fifty, Like you live in this boomer bubble where like, yeah,
you got divorced once in like nineteen eighty four, and
it messed up your kids for life. But like you
got married to your you know, second wife who's you
know from Thailand in you know, nineteen ninety one, and
you've stayed married since. And you know your house is
paid off and you know, bought it for forty thousand
dollars back or eighty thousand dollars back in nineteen eighty four.
That was worth four point three million. Look at that,
I look at the financial genie is you know, like yeah, right.
Speaker 3: Just by land.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not making any more of it. Actually the
Chinese are, you know, but like, uh, but that's they
don't know, these these old men with money and who
are insulated from everything, right, Like someone drives them. They
get up in the morning and there's like servants who
make them breakfast and help them get dressed, and they
say their private mass and then they go do meetings
and people drive them everywhere or you know, their security
all the time. They've never been like on a street
in Rome surrounded by Africans trying to sell you crap, right.
Speaker 3: Which you'd assumably you think the cardinals might have experienced that.
But at one point or another.
Speaker 2: But no, they don't. They just don't, right that they
don't know. You know. Peter koldwo Apa Turksen born in
nineteen forty eight. You know it's from Ghana. Yeah right,
he has no idea what life is like for the
average person since he got to Rome in the nineties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he is, uh, And he's probably the shining example
of the un guy, the un pope, of which there
are many now yeah right, I mean he's one of
the strangest of them all to me in terms of
a guy who might receive the life probably won't. But
the the variety, it almost feels as though when you're
looking through the palpable candidates, there shouldn't be nearly as
much disagreement on positions as there is. And it's all
the and it's to a ludicrous degree. I mean, the
some are in favor of divorce andary marriage and in
allments for you know, minor reasons for divorces, and then
but they're also only traditional marriages, no homosexual marriages. And
then there are some who are very stern about divorce,
but they would marry homosexuals. It seems like it's I mean,
as I looked through all of the cardinals the various
publicly stated positions, the only unity seems to be the
uniqueness to which one of the cardinals can have a
very liberal opinion. Yeah, it's at least half of them.
Speaker 2: At least half of them, right, So I'm going to
the College of Cardinals report dot com slash where they
stand and like ordaining female deacons, and this is every
cardinal where like everyone who's even slightly Peppa Beile, right,
So this is fifty people as opposed to the more
realistic five that you talked about. But like, why is
there anybody that thinks it's okay? Right, Schumbourne says, it's okay.
This is the guy that I edited. I said edited it.
Then any four cat you.
Speaker 3: Know, right, there's some very and I'm sure we could
go into it. I don't know how much longer we have,
but there's some very clear answers to why it is
that way. It isn't at lost on a lot of us.
You know why it is that way. There's a massive infiltration. Yeah, so,
I mean you already talked about it really so.
Speaker 2: Right, and I mean I'm prepared, and that's why I do.
I do in terms of my show. It's very Catholic focused,
very religion focused, like we're we're going back to the catacombs, man,
Like that's that's that's what's happening. And yeah, and you
know worse way too, because it's one thing for like,
you know, pagan Rome in the year two hundred, right,
was a bad place, but like Romans had virtues that
they honored just because they had to in order to
survive in the world. Right, you had to be brave,
to be honest, I thought it was there.
Speaker 1: I thought it was their paganism that made them brave
and and all that. That's what I kept hearing that Twitter,
That's what I keep hearing on Twitter.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, well Twitter theologians are notoriously unreliable. But like, right,
you know, let's say what you will about the Vikings, right,
but you know, it was the first of the nine
virtues that the Vikings went out, Like yeah, they might
have been like horrible like slavers and rapists and murderers
and stuff, but they had virtues like you have to
you know, like hey, let's get this little tiny boat
and then go across the North Sea.
Speaker 3: You know. One of the objections is there was never
a Viking pope, so I could tolerate it, right, But
we're getting some modern Viking, we're getting some modern Vikings,
so we're getting very close.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, but the problem is is that in those societies,
whatever they might have had before they became Christian, to
have once been a Christian society and decisively rejected christ
makes you so much worse as a society than a
society that never like like had had never had it
and just kind of lived because you naturally had virtues
just to just to have to survive. You had to
be thrifty, you had to be you know, you had
to be brave, you had had to fight, you had
to do all these other things that like just to survive.
And the problem we have now, right is that, you know,
in this post increasingly pros Christian hostile society that you know,
hates Christianity. There's a lot of people who are kind
of dumb, and they have this idea that like Christianity
is the thing stopping people from living this you know,
luxury space communism. And they're perfectly happy, you know, like
if we just kill all the Christians, everything will be better,
And they genuinely believe that, and they they're not shy
about seeking state power to do things like that. And
the problem that it's going to result in that is
a lot of people were going to double down this
sort of thing. It's going to get worse. You know,
the Christian society. The guy that you know, it's your office,
who's a solid guy, and he shows up to work
and he does a good job. You know, who's thirty five,
he probably goes you know, more often than not, that
guy goes to church. And as you as you destroy
the functioning parts of society, things don't get better if
like no one gets married and kids are just kind
of raised by however, right, right, turning, turning all of
America into the ghetto is not a recipe for success
where marriages don't really happen, and you know, relationships are
very tenuous and don't last, right, you know, kids need
a dad all their lives, and this notion that you're
going to live in a society that that functions well,
you know, in a post Christian environment is just it's
just not true. And thankfully, i mean thanks to the
shows like this and you know, just the chaos the
last few years more and when people are realizing that
and why they're why so many young men are like
returning to church and finding and being strident. So so
that's good. But in the meantime, right, just don't don't
count any institutional hope.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when when you talk about the catacombs that the
online catacombs are really where a lot of this tradition
is being captain propitiated. I mean discords and and DM
channels and telegrams, we really are and the the catacombs
when you put it like that.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean like I can't. I should be able
to walk up to my pastor or my bishop and
be like, hello, I'm the world same as you know, intellectual.
I can say that because I have like a fan
in Australia and a fan in England, so right, like
like I got a buddy in South Africa, so like
you know, I'm it's global, right, Yeah, so I global.
But like no, like how many how many you know,
people who actually know what's going on in the world
are frozen out of a structure of authority because you know,
it's bird, Like I know you as bird, I respect
you as bird. You can't go to your pastor be like, Hi,
I'm bird. From timeline Earth. Then you need you need
to sit down and listen to me. Right, that should happen,
but it doesn't.
Speaker 3: I have a pretty base pastor. The problem is that
he's Cuban. It's otherwise, it's fine.
Speaker 1: I told I told Birdo this before before you got on.
The two most based priests I've met since I've been here,
well except for the one that does the LTM that
I go to or both Indians. They're both from India
and they're like old school. They act like old school
Irish priests. Like sure, like they'll look at you like
you're an idiot. If you say something, you say something
stupid and if you get into confession and you confess
something that, I mean, they'll it's not like, oh just
do this, You're going to get a lecture. What happened
to that? Yeah, I can't we have like can't we
have someone in the like can't we have someone who
was born in the West.
Speaker 3: I really do think of there's a global sorting that
really needs to be at least let me talk in
the terms of the United States, not to confuse the issue,
but in the United States there really needs to be
a sorting more intentional choices on certain communities where there
are uh, these more traditional Catholic structures.
Speaker 2: I really.
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean, I think I'm fairly sure on
your opinion. Mine at least is I do think you
can get a good priest, and I think you can
get a good bishop. And it's I don't know how
dark the near future is. At least what level of
hope can one hold that just by the nature of
so many young American priests, people re entering the priesthood,
not just the religion itself, but the priesthood, they do
hold more conservative views, do they not? I mean, at
least is a stepping stone at least is this kind
of a stepping stone?
Speaker 2: They do? But like how many of them have said
anything right, like this is the sure Yeah. The problem
is that they get institutional capture. And you would have thought,
and I've been I don't know how long you've been
Catholic or if you like left the church and camp
back or whatever, but I've been in the trenches for
thirty years. And there were a bunch of people who
were like around Benedict and Jump all the second time,
who were like, we're you know, we're going to take
it back and everything that's gonna get better. Well, twelve
years of Francis shows you that there's a lot of
people who just want you know, there's a lot of
people who just want the promotion and just want like
they will go from you know, look at shown Born right,
like you know, went from ninety four catechism to being
like female deacons are great, what you're like, so you know,
and a lot of people get you know, removed from
seminary for being too based, and a lot and and
and you just can't count on like an institution that's
fundamentally not set up correctly or in the hands of enemies, right,
m hm, there's a lot of these are you can't
counter it, like like I'm sorry, I can't count on CNN.
Why there might be some cool people at see Ann
probably are, but like do you trust seeing in supporting.
Speaker 3: You count on them? No? Yeah, of course, because.
Speaker 2: They don't have anything right, which is why you know
Timeline Earth is the number one news switch for the
entire nation?
Speaker 3: Is that true? When you can count on us and
you can count on us.
Speaker 2: Right exactly, you know. But but that's but that's the
nature of the beast that we're dealing with is like
you might have the Oh, I agree, and people need
to deal. People just need to know what time it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree. No, I totally agree with that absolutly.
There has to be a recognition of the kind of
situation the American catholic is going to be in, and
that a lot of the people who are going around
are very nominal in their Catholicism, and that really is
not You can't you just can't. I agree, You just
can't count on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean anyone who if you've gone to
a Protestant charge for any period of timing time, it's
the same thing. Most of those people are nominally Christian too.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this is a problem. That's this. Yeah, I
think anyone who's honest, who isn't attending a former i
hop current church, anybody who's honest can reflect on the
fact that their church, their congregation is declining and that
the doctrinal solidity has really slipped over the years. And
all of the churches, I mean it's only over the
past thirty to forty years that homosexuality has run its
way through all of the high churches, I mean all
of them. This is a fairly new so I do.
I think it's very difficult to take anybody seriously who's saying, well,
my church hasn't experienced a major decline. I just don't
you know, it seems like this is a global problem,
not just a Catholic problem.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a problem everywhere with everything. You know. I mean,
if I know you're friend of Petson, have been for
a long time, have listened to you mine probably a
dozen shows on here, you know it goes it's a
political problem, it's to social problem, it's a religious problem,
it's a society wide problem and everything. And this is
one of those things that you know, like the pernicious
doctrines of Americanism, right, like there is no separation church
and state. There's no such thing as a secular society,
right everyone, every society has their religion. Just you know,
go to the middle of town square, drop a hard
r and see what people say. It's the same thing
as if you'd you know, blasphemed in pureit New England
in you know, sixteen forty five.
Speaker 3: I you know, Americanism being so prolific in the United States,
and it's many forms, even to the point where it's
Americanists who don't actually agree politically on very much. There's
just so many expressions of it. It does make you
wonder is the treatment in the United States, which seems
to be kind of to just avert the eyes and
let things go their course. It's interesting how that's occurring. Well,
at the same time, the treatment of Germany is the
way that it is this very capitulatory willingness to allow
to go along. Meanwhile in our country, have bishops were
being yanked out of their chairs. It's just it's very
unusual the treatment of one versus the other.
Speaker 2: Well, that's because Germany's under occupation, right, like if the
Germans started getting too strappy, certain people in you know
usaid or you know, let's not get ourselves. Also, the
CIA has you know the CIA, and in nineteen forty
seven or so, someone realized that, wait a minute, that
the Vatican has one of the best intelligence networks in
the world, you know, and someone quickly does.
Speaker 3: It's so based. I wish that it worked for our needs,
because that's so awesome. I just wish did it work
for our needs. It sucks. There's such a huge apparatus there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something that we've something that we've talked about is,
you know, the left, the left patronage networks are just
a default our patronage net We don't have patritage networks.
We have canceling networks where you know, if you if
you if you say something to right wing quote unquote
too right wing, oh, you get canceled by the quote
unquote right wing.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, don't be woke.
Speaker 2: Yeah, James Lindsay has taken seriously by people. Meanwhile, like
Pika Nerns has to ask for money, speaking of which
you know, if you've been to be on the wall,
slash support like kick him bucks, kick him so many
bucks for he can afford to pay me. And Bird,
that's how much money you should kick Pete is so
much fun.
Speaker 1: And go to the Timeline Earth Patreon. I'm a Patreon
supporter of Timeline Earth. And it's not because i've known Bird.
Bird's probably the first person who actually knew my real
name anybody when I started podcasting. But imagine my shock. Yeah,
it's like, what what the hell's that last name? But yeah,
I'm a patron supporter because I think Timeline Earth is
like the funniest, the funniest show that you know goes
live every Wednesday.
Speaker 3: See I'm even except it except this Wednesday where we
we did chose not to go live in rejection of
our audience's expectations.
Speaker 1: Yes, true, well, but that that doesn't mean you can't
catch the audience.
Speaker 2: Can't can't catch the replay, which which you should do.
And you should go to Timeline Earth and subscribe to
the r s S feed as I do, and and
uh and give it a good review and and you know, okay,
tongue for me and cheek whatever. But like this is
why they win. This is why someone like Crystal of
Crystal Showbourne can can go from being someone who you know,
was the guy who was trusted to edit the ninety
four Catechism to a guy who supports female deacons because
the patrin and his network steered him that way for
the lasting And there is no there is no right
wing patronage network. There is no you know, the right
wing seminarians have like they they got to go get
jobs and McDonald's to pay off their student loans. Whereas
you know the guy who's like, hey, I'm a friend
of Bill A. Dodds and I want to get into
seminary to like ruin things, like someone will show up
with their money, like hey, you need you know, like
like and you know, the Saint Allan Mafia is a thing,
like they really have. They really did pay people tens
of millions of dollars to do bad stuff, right, and
they the you know Mittel Slovini like like face jail
time because like the Vatican along with the Italian government
was like smuggling migrants into Europe.
Speaker 3: Right, Like, yeah, he had and he had many disputes
with Zoopie. I don't know if you recall you had, right,
what is that one dispute that they had. I had
to write it down because I found it such aline
earth kind of subject. Oh they had a here, let
me see if I can find it, it's worth recanting.
So Mateo Salvini has a Yeah, like you said, there
was a public war of words. And then I don't know,
did you ever hear about the tortolino of the welcome?
Speaker 2: Uh? No, please elaborate.
Speaker 3: So they were hosting the Feast of Saint Petronas, which
they do every year, and this time they wanted to
welcome Muslims and to eat alongside them the traditional tortolino
that they would make for it had pork, and instead
they build and created and build a tortellino of the
welcome which had chicken in it, so that the Muslims
could enjoy the feast of Saint Petronius right next to
the Catholics. And Salvini was mocking it in the news,
and it was just a big thing. And I read
that and I cringed so hard. I I just can't.
Speaker 2: Well, unnecessary. But those people now understand is that uh
is was a Zoopie that did it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Zoopie.
Speaker 2: Right, those people have now accepted that that in their
minds and in a very real way. Right, that Zoopie
has accepted demi status and that that the public culture
of Italy should conform to them. Yes, Like, no, actually
that is not the way things should go. It's it's
it's like the land acknowledgment crap in Australia or the
United States, where like we are on unseated Navajo land.
Like no, the Navajo seeded this when they got their
asses kicked in the war.
Speaker 3: But we thought the German land acknowledgments were very funny
if you saw those going around recently.
Speaker 2: I'm not on Twitter, so I don't see a lot
of stuff.
Speaker 3: The Germans were land acknowledging, and they were just naming
all of the tribes of people who became the German. Right,
that's pretty awesome, it actually was. It's an unexpectedly based
German moment.
Speaker 2: Good for them, But like, like, okay, so eminence, if
being Italian means if being Muslim and rejecting uh mortadella
and rejecting and rejecting Torriso and rejecting all of these foods,
that are what everyone thinks of when they think of Italian, right,
because they're all pork, They're all pork sausage. It's all pork, right, Yeah,
if that's if that's just as okay as being Italian?
What's the fucking point of being Italian?
Speaker 3: What's the point of becoming Catholic?
Speaker 2: Right? Like, what's the point of being Catholic? Right? Like,
didn't didn't the Normans fight like a two hundred year
ward to keep to get the get the Muslims out
of Sicily, Like, wasn't you know, thank.
Speaker 3: You, thank you, sir Roger for saving Colabria kind.
Speaker 2: Of well, I mean.
Speaker 3: He did his past was it?
Speaker 2: Was it saving it for Christen numbers saving it for
the tank, you know, the how it bills? I uh,
you know, fifty to fifty. But that's a separate discussion.
And for those of you interested to tell you check
out check out the Norman Centuries podcast. It's about ten
years old, really really cool. But no, like if if
it's okay to do chicken totalini instead of like, then
why why celebrate SAME's names mont to Morrow's in Spain?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 3: You know? What?
Speaker 2: Why do all of these things? How many borders were there,
you know, who were martyred by the Turks? How many
people died in defensive creer? Like, what's the point of laponto?
Speaker 3: If?
Speaker 2: Like right, if if we can.
Speaker 3: Just if you if you if your if your culture
insists on uh, the inclusiveness of changing an assent food
so that another completely different group can join into it.
You don't. You don't have a culture, at least in
that one instance. You have no culture anymore. You now
have a global culture. That's what that is. You just
sell your own culture down the river.
Speaker 2: Right Yeah, and not only you sold your own culture
down the river, but but you've totally destroyed any rationale
someone might have for adopting your culture. Right, like, bacon
double cheeseburgers are in fact the proof that Christianity is
a true faith because Muslims can eat the beef, Jews
canny cheeseburgers, and Hindus can't. Yet right like, right like,
it is proof that America and Christianity are perfect and
good because bacon double cheeseburgers are awesome and if you
don't eat them, there's something wrong with you. True right
with beer, truth nuke right, because you know Muslims won't
drink the beer, the Mormons won't drink the beer like obviously,
obviously these things are better and you should you should
give up whatever your heathen ways are that prevent you
from eating and enjoying bacon double cheeseburgers. You should think
really long and hard about the fact that, like you're
denied them by your whatever ridiculous religion you're part of,
whether it's Judaism or Islam or Mormonism or Hinduism or whatever,
and understand that like you are depriving yourself of one
of the true goods of the universe in not having
bacon double cheeseburgers. And right, that's what a civilization that
believes in itself.
Speaker 3: And then you should go back to your own contrary.
Speaker 2: Yes, and bring the gospel and yes.
Speaker 3: After you become yeah, exactly, and you still have to
go back, and we want you to go back, and
we want you to make it the place you came
from good and better.
Speaker 2: Right by becoming Catholic and evangelizing both the Gospel of
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3: And raising your own IQs. Raise your IQs would be great. Yes,
we can and trust you with things that would be great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3: There you go, I'll type that up, I'll send it
to the Pope's office. I'll type that up there and
maybe they'll effectuate some of.
Speaker 2: That that that would be fantastic. I wish you, I
wish you many successes. But that's the sort of thing, right,
And just one last thing before we go, because it's
that That's why I mean shows a tamil Er, we're
peat show or my show. That's why we're not allowed
on TV. So support us, please, you know. That's that's why.
And because we have the self confidence to say that
baking double cheese peckers are better than than not and
and so you should eat them and and believe.
Speaker 3: In in your own country, eat them in your own contrary. Yes,
we'll bring in fact, we'll ship them to you.
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, burtout tell people where they can, where
they can supports. There was no natural I had no
natural kind of segue there, you.
Speaker 3: Know what, That's fine, that's fine. Yeah, Timeline Earth. Go
over to the Patreon. Every Sunday a new episode of
Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon Pause presents Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon
comes out, where we track the most extensive, greatest conspiracy
theory of all that ancient Babylonian mystery religions have infected
every element of modern institutional power and what they are
steering us towards. And after an episode like today, I'm
sure a lot of people are going to want to
listen to more of that. So yeah, go over to
the Timeline Earth Patreon.
Speaker 1: Well maybe maybe a lot will be reminded, what the
hell was the name of that book that like claimed
that like the whole Catholic Church came out of Babylon.
Speaker 3: That was? What was that book? What I'm talking about
I have to like in my notes. But yeah, there's
a bunch of them, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they love doing that, and I would I
would say for people who have a lot of questions,
even about Christianity itself, go listen to doctor Matthew Rafael
Johnson talk about just exactly how Greek Jerusalem was at
the time of Jesus. Yeah, thats thecapolists, right, like that's
where Gesus was from.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I got the well. I can be
found once a month on thut Cram Synicot right here
on the peaking in his show. I can be found
elsewhere on my telegram channel and my own show of
Fundamental Principle, which is mostly religious focused. But please take
a look at that if you're so inclined. Uh, And
like I said, please please please. I know I say
this all the time. Please support the people that don't
lie to you, which, you know, five bucks, mind, I
seem like a lot to you, but but it's a
lot to us. So you know, kick some kick some
kick a couple bucks into pizza, pizza guitar case. I
think he does a pretty good good job singing for everybody.
So thank you very much for having me against her.
Of course, all right, gentlemen, thank you, thank you.