Speaker 1: Welcome to destiny.
Speaker 2: Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning, My twenty six is
Speaker 2: not a year to be written off. It's one of
Speaker 2: those rare pivotal moments in the astrology where the sky
Speaker 2: stops whispering and starts screaming at us loudly. If we're
Speaker 2: talking reality shifting conjunctions with historic implications and eclipses that
Speaker 2: close a big karmic chapter in one area of your life,
Speaker 2: only to begin shifting your destiny in a completely new way.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty five was a year of big cosmic shifts,
Speaker 2: with all of the outer planets and the lunar nodes
Speaker 2: changing science. It was a year of major disruption, marked
Speaker 2: by pivotal endings and nebulous new beginnings. And while the
Speaker 2: astrology of twenty twenty six does bring much needed support
Speaker 2: and momentum while nudging this storyline along, it also reroutes
Speaker 2: the entire plot. If you've been patiently waiting for a
Speaker 2: year that actually moves the needle in your healing, your purpose,
Speaker 2: your relationships, your spiritual growth, and your role within the collective,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six is that year.
Speaker 1: Well. At the beginning of the new year, twenty twenty six,
Speaker 1: and typically we're looking at ways of understanding what we
Speaker 1: can look forward to in the year. Those of us
Speaker 1: who are into divination toreu ruins and in this case astrology,
Speaker 1: we are learning what to expect and we're listening to
Speaker 1: I should say, that's astrology with Heather. She's a very
Speaker 1: popular YouTube astrologer who's giving us kind of a global
Speaker 1: look at what the how the year will unfold, and
Speaker 1: how to go about, you know, doing your thing to
Speaker 1: be as successful. And that's the theme today is astrology, trends, personality,
Speaker 1: character types, and how the stars of the constellations influence us. Hey,
Speaker 1: this is clip your host of Destiny, and today we're
Speaker 1: looking at how our ancestors used astrology, and not just
Speaker 1: that the discovery of a new or perhaps old astrology
Speaker 1: that was handed down from likely an unknown civilization. This
Speaker 1: goes as far back as the ruins of Goebecley Tepee
Speaker 1: and Turkey, where they've found evidence of many of the
Speaker 1: zodiac signs on the t pillars. And also when we
Speaker 1: go to Egypt at the Dinderra Temple known as the
Speaker 1: Hathorpe Temple, there's a very famous astrological roof that was
Speaker 1: used for skygazing connections, but that has the astrology, has
Speaker 1: the astrological figures carved into it, and so that's a big,
Speaker 1: big piece of data that our ancestors were using astrology
Speaker 1: for not only individual use, but also for greater prognostication,
Speaker 1: in other words, predicting how wars were going to be fought,
Speaker 1: the best time to go to war, the best time
Speaker 1: to plant your crops, the best time to get married,
Speaker 1: the best time to have children. I've mentioned it many times.
Speaker 1: With the astrology that was used in Mesoamerica, most notably
Speaker 1: by the Maya, was highly sophisticated and they would use
Speaker 1: it for predicting and I think even some prophecy on
Speaker 1: what to expect in the year to come and how
Speaker 1: people would fare. And also and my teacher who mus Men,
Speaker 1: mentioned this many times. They actually were able to help people,
Speaker 1: i should say, show people how to conceive, how to
Speaker 1: conceive children, the best time to make, the best month,
Speaker 1: weekday that you could have children, and the outcome from
Speaker 1: those couplings. So we don't use astrology in quite the
Speaker 1: same manner anymore, And of course our current science doesn't
Speaker 1: believe it in anything having to do with astrology at all.
Speaker 1: But we know the Maya, we know the Dynastic Egyptians,
Speaker 1: we know the Sumerians, Babylonians, Chinese and other and the
Speaker 1: Hindu the Vedic systems. They used astrology with great accuracy
Speaker 1: and really helped people understand how the year would unfold.
Speaker 1: So that's what our program is today. And I want
Speaker 1: to also mention that my guest today is Graham Phillips.
Speaker 1: We haven't had Grandma probably a good year and a half.
Speaker 1: We have him on when he has right. When he writes,
Speaker 1: he writes a great deal. But this new work is
Speaker 1: fascinating simply because it connects, as I mentioned earlier, with
Speaker 1: go Beckley Tepi. He has developed and found what he
Speaker 1: calls the Mesoamerican Zodiac, and this is something that no
Speaker 1: one has really heard of before, but it is really
Speaker 1: an eye opener because it relates to a much earlier people.
Speaker 1: So today's program is the original Zodiac, and my guest
Speaker 1: is Graham Phillips. I've been talking about Chattanooga whiskey now
Speaker 1: for a few months, and I tell you, I just
Speaker 1: can't get enough of it. The ninety one, which is
Speaker 1: my favorite. It's like dark chocolate to every other bourbon's
Speaker 1: milk chocolate. It uses roasted caramel malt and toasted honey
Speaker 1: malt and custom toasted and charred oak barrows. The oak
Speaker 1: barrels really give it an amazing flavor and the results
Speaker 1: are a much richer, more complex bourbon. And the ninety
Speaker 1: one is now available in one point five liter bottles
Speaker 1: in select states. If you can't get it in your area,
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Speaker 1: Chattanooga Whiskey is a small distillery in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and
Speaker 1: their whiskey is outstanding. Again Chattanooga Whiskey this holiday, pick
Speaker 1: up a bottle of their ninety one. I swear by it.
Speaker 1: It's the best burbon I've ever tasted. Chatnooga Whiskey dot com.
Speaker 1: This is the beginning of the year, which means is
Speaker 1: that we want to look at the year from I
Speaker 1: like to call it divination. And those are ruins, and
Speaker 1: those are Toro, and I also believe that the zodiac,
Speaker 1: which is astrology, is a part of that. We're featuring
Speaker 1: a new book by Graham Phillips. It's called The Original Zodiac.
Speaker 1: What Ancient Astrology Reveals about You. And it's fun to
Speaker 1: talk about astrology in general because it's predictive in some
Speaker 1: ways and also well, as we'll learn today, gives us
Speaker 1: a sense of individual personalities and character development. But if
Speaker 1: you're not familiar with Graham, Graham is a brilliant writer
Speaker 1: when it comes to King Arthur. In fact, if you
Speaker 1: look at his Facebook page, he's always looking and hoping
Speaker 1: for a big dig somewhere and we can unveil where
Speaker 1: King Arthur was buried. But it's also very popular and
Speaker 1: has discussed and written extensively about the Templar Knights. Graham,
Speaker 1: welcome back to Destiny. What was the I mean this
Speaker 1: is a departure for you. When did you get involved
Speaker 1: with the astrology? Let's talk about that for a man.
Speaker 3: Well, as you say, most of my books have all
Speaker 3: been about researching historical mysteries and going back. This whole
Speaker 3: thing started back in the mid nineteen nineties, so thirty
Speaker 3: years ago, and I was doing a book then about
Speaker 3: the life of Alexander the Great. Now he ended up
Speaker 3: dying in Babylon, which was the largest city in the
Speaker 3: world at the time, in what's now Iraq, And I
Speaker 3: was reading various accounts of his life that were written
Speaker 3: by his scribes at the time, and I came across
Speaker 3: I think I found quite fascinating. It was the Greeks
Speaker 3: who pretty much invented the zodiac we now know and love,
Speaker 3: with Scorpio and Aquarius and Ares and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: The Greeks who are the ones who desired I did
Speaker 3: it into these twelve signs. But Alexander, when he was
Speaker 3: in Greece was getting his astrologers and he was right
Speaker 3: into it to predict what might happen to him in
Speaker 3: these coming campaigns. And he says, his scribes say that
Speaker 3: the astrologers in Babylon were saying, oh, no, no, it's
Speaker 3: not twelve signs, We've got eighteen. Now. It didn't say anymore.
Speaker 3: They just said it was you know, Alexander wouldn't have this.
Speaker 3: But I thought, well, they don't refer more to this.
Speaker 3: I would like to look into it and see what
Speaker 3: these eighteen signs were. And that is how it started
Speaker 3: and from the point of actually knowing there was an
Speaker 3: eighteen signs sodieat that seems to have preceded the Greek
Speaker 3: twelve sign one. To finding out what these signs actually
Speaker 3: were and how they were interpreted has taken thirty years.
Speaker 1: Amazing. Talk a little bit about why you believe the
Speaker 1: Greeks were the discoverers. I asked question because I've been
Speaker 1: to Middle East many times and at Half Temple and Dindera,
Speaker 1: there's a very famous ceiling that the French removed and
Speaker 1: brought to Paris, and you can see this original zodiac constellations,
Speaker 1: and I would think that that's much older than the
Speaker 1: Greeks the early So I don't know if it's Old
Speaker 1: Middle or New York Kingdom Egyptians who created the ceiling.
Speaker 1: But how do you, speculator, how do you provide us
Speaker 1: information that the Greeks were the ones who invented astrology.
Speaker 3: Now, the Greeks didn't invent the zodiac. They created the
Speaker 3: twelve sign one we have today. Oh, Theydia, I think
Speaker 3: it's about eighteen sixteen signs or something. There are other
Speaker 3: signs earlier than the Greeks. The Mayans had a I
Speaker 3: think it was a forty signed zodiac or something. The
Speaker 3: Indians had one that was pretty old, you know, at
Speaker 3: again and no, what it is is the one we notice, prays.
Speaker 3: It is probably easy if I explain for those who
Speaker 3: don't know what exactly the zodiac is.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: There are stars everywhere, and they're divided up by astronomers
Speaker 3: today into eighty eight signs, but they're all over the place.
Speaker 3: The zodiac twelve signs are just once in a particular
Speaker 3: band around the Sun, and they are the band in
Speaker 3: which the Earth, the Moon, and the planets appear to
Speaker 3: orbit the Sun. In fact, they orbit it in a
Speaker 3: roughly flat plane. So consequently we've seen from Earth the Moon,
Speaker 3: the stars, etc. Are only ever in one of these
Speaker 3: twelve constellations, not in the others. They're never in the
Speaker 3: constellation of O'Brian, for example, or the Big Dipper. They're
Speaker 3: only in the twelve constellations of the zodiac. Now, the ancients,
Speaker 3: the Greeks and like other people who divided it separately,
Speaker 3: believe that at certain times when planets or the sun
Speaker 3: were in certain positions in the zodiac as seen from Earth,
Speaker 3: meant different things. And the Greeks what they said, is
Speaker 3: when the sun is in a particular zodiac sign, that
Speaker 3: means one thing, and when it's moves the next it
Speaker 3: means something else. And how they divided the zodiac up
Speaker 3: was into twelve roughly equal segments to correspond with their
Speaker 3: months that began. Their new year began on March of
Speaker 3: twenty first at the spring equinox, and then they had
Speaker 3: a roughly equal twelve months from then. And okay, let's
Speaker 3: say the sign aries, for example, you look at that.
Speaker 3: It doesn't look anything like a RAM. I know that
Speaker 3: when you see these star charts, they'll draw around and
Speaker 3: they'll use some of the stars to actually fit where
Speaker 3: its ears are or whatever. But the RAM sign aries
Speaker 3: is just a basically a squiggly line. If you join
Speaker 3: the stars up and there's not much. None of the
Speaker 3: other stars look very much like they're supposed to be. Now.
Speaker 3: The way the Greeks worked out what the star sign
Speaker 3: what each other. They'd named the months after these creatures.
Speaker 3: They'd named them after aries. The ram, they'd named enough
Speaker 3: of scorpion, the scorpion, scorpy of the scorpion, and so forth.
Speaker 3: And the reason they'd chose those particular signs is because
Speaker 3: the people who were born at that time of the
Speaker 3: year when the sun was in that particular constellation, seemed
Speaker 3: to share characteristics in common. For example, people who were
Speaker 3: born in aries seemed to be have ram like characteristics.
Speaker 3: They barged their head, there were good leaders, lion leo,
Speaker 3: brave people, scorpions, people with a sting in the tail.
Speaker 3: They created these months named after characteristics people born at
Speaker 3: that time of the year seemed to share, and then
Speaker 3: said right, well, we'll just make stars formed roughly into
Speaker 3: that particular shape. So that's how it came about. Other civilizations,
Speaker 3: like the Egyptians you mentioned, had different signs, like, for example,
Speaker 3: what we now call scorpio was seen by the Egyptians
Speaker 3: as two turtles. The Mayon saw that same sign what's
Speaker 3: now scorpio as a snake. So how each is different.
Speaker 3: But the one that we have today was inherited from
Speaker 3: the Greeks.
Speaker 1: Okay, so before we get into this what you call
Speaker 1: Mesopotamian zodiac with eighteen signs, I want to talk about energy.
Speaker 1: It is my I study the Mayan astroto astrology and
Speaker 1: astronomy and their cosmological focus. They believe everything has energy.
Speaker 1: I want you to talk a little bit about the
Speaker 1: influence of planetary systems or cosmological influences on people. That's
Speaker 1: an energetic influence, isn't It isn't what you call that
Speaker 1: energy from a planet's what do you call it? The
Speaker 1: gravity of the planet, the constellational's influence on a person.
Speaker 1: I want you to talk a little bit about the energy,
Speaker 1: because no one talks about the energetic influence on zodiac
Speaker 1: science on a person, which creates all these characteristics.
Speaker 3: Well, it seems, I mean, it's only literally now that
Speaker 3: we have scientific evidence to back up the fact that
Speaker 3: people are born at a certain time of the year
Speaker 3: do have characteristics in common. Now people might say, Okay,
Speaker 3: the stars are so far away, they're light years of
Speaker 3: the way, they can't affect personality and characteristics because you're
Speaker 3: born then. And the planets, how are they doing it? Well,
Speaker 3: it seems that research that was done at Tel Aviv
Speaker 3: University just a couple of years ago by a team
Speaker 3: of scientists looking into cellular biology. They've found that when
Speaker 3: like animals that are born at different times of the year,
Speaker 3: or plants or anything throughout the year, they change like,
Speaker 3: for example, in the winter, they need to have more fur,
Speaker 3: they need to change the color of the fur. Like
Speaker 3: squirrels or foxes, they need that. Other times to the
Speaker 3: year is the time that they mate and so on. Now,
Speaker 3: going back to when before we were humans, even going
Speaker 3: back to our remote ancestors, the seasons affected us. So now,
Speaker 3: according to the research it's been done at Tel Aviv,
Speaker 3: they now know that throughout the year, hormones change in
Speaker 3: our bodies. It may not actually do much to us
Speaker 3: on the surface of things, but it affects the growth
Speaker 3: of an embryo. So a woman who is pregnant for
Speaker 3: nine months during a certain period has different biological reactions,
Speaker 3: different hormone effects than somebody who's somebody who's pregnant at
Speaker 3: a different times. In other words, people are born at
Speaker 3: the same time, have they've gone through a period of
Speaker 3: gestation in the womb of the same time as somebody else,
Speaker 3: so they've got all the same hormones affecting them. Somebody
Speaker 3: a month later has got slightly different hormones. And this,
Speaker 3: the Tel Aviv scientists said, could very well affect how
Speaker 3: people who are born then may actually appear, sometimes their features,
Speaker 3: their characteristics, their likes dislikes, and it could really have
Speaker 3: an effect. So this is the first actual, historic, actual
Speaker 3: scientific evidence that certainly when you're born in the year
Speaker 3: natal astrologiers they call it can actually work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you call it chronobiology, which I thought was a
Speaker 1: fantastic term, having to do a hormone distribution throughout the
Speaker 1: different parts of the year. And this is a big deal.
Speaker 1: And this also helps with the evidence does astrology work.
Speaker 1: I want you to talk a little bit about the
Speaker 1: fact that, and you talk about this in your book,
Speaker 1: it's not wu wu It's an actual fact that our ancestors,
Speaker 1: the ancients aligned and understood that there are certain physical
Speaker 1: attributes of being born in a certain time of year,
Speaker 1: and that these planets and star systems can affect us.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I mean going back to how we found
Speaker 3: out what particular signs for damp police eighteen signs Adiak,
Speaker 3: how it actually be he does seem to work. The
Speaker 3: Greeks at Alexander's time mentioned this eighteen signed zodiac. It
Speaker 3: took quite a long time to do research to find
Speaker 3: out anything about it. But there's a kind of four
Speaker 3: thousand year old inscribed tablets in the British Museum that
Speaker 3: was found in ancient Babylon in the ancient Babylonian Empire.
Speaker 3: That tells us that there were eighteen signs. It tells
Speaker 3: us what times of the year they correspond to, but
Speaker 3: it doesn't tell us what the creatures were that were
Speaker 3: represented as these things in the zodiac. And it wasn't
Speaker 3: until two thy and ten when they started to excavate
Speaker 3: kbecley Tepe in eastern Turkey, which is a northern part
Speaker 3: of Mesopotamia, as was that they found inscribed stones there
Speaker 3: with the animals on it that represented these eighteen signs. Now,
Speaker 3: the problem is still nobody actually knew how each of
Speaker 3: these signs would be interpreted. So I thought, well, okay,
Speaker 3: it seems to be let's say the first sign was
Speaker 3: the spider. That seems to have been for people born
Speaker 3: between March twenty first and April ninth. So I gathered, well,
Speaker 3: if it's sort of like the Greek one, it characteristics
Speaker 3: people born, then are going to have that share it
Speaker 3: with the creature? Then obviously a spider. It creates a web.
Speaker 3: It's creative, it's always the ancient sign of creativity. It's
Speaker 3: also a loner. It doesn't swarm around with other spiders
Speaker 3: like bees or ants or something like that it lives
Speaker 3: on its own. So maybe people and that particular sign
Speaker 3: are going to be solitary people. They're going to be
Speaker 3: perhaps people who are considered to be artistic and creative.
Speaker 3: But okay, how do I discover more? I thought, well,
Speaker 3: the only way because there's no ancient writings survived that
Speaker 3: tell us how they work this out. I thought, well,
Speaker 3: the only way is to do if it works, it works,
Speaker 3: and to do a survey of people born in each
Speaker 3: sign to see if they share characteristics. Are they athletic,
Speaker 3: are they artistic? Are they intellectual?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: And so on. But I started to do this and thought,
Speaker 3: this is going to take forever. No enough people, I
Speaker 3: mean the Greeks and these other people that worked, you know,
Speaker 3: the Mayans, the people of India, the Egyptians would have
Speaker 3: spent years, generations writing down these things and observing these
Speaker 3: ideas and gradually coming up with what the signs were.
Speaker 3: And I thought was impossible. So I put it off
Speaker 3: until a couple of years ago. I thought, God, there
Speaker 3: is a way of doing it. Ai. So I literally
Speaker 3: went and chatted ept or whatever the equivalent I was
Speaker 3: using back then. I said, give me two hundred people
Speaker 3: born famous people born between this date and that date.
Speaker 3: They're there. Oh, give me a list of those who
Speaker 3: are artists, those who are sports people, those who have
Speaker 3: got this in common that and it was able to
Speaker 3: work it out within seconds from the.
Speaker 1: Whole My god.
Speaker 3: And that's how I was and what I found was
Speaker 3: absolutely astonishing, was based on this biggest survey that probably
Speaker 3: had ever been conducted until that point on people's personality,
Speaker 3: traits and characteristics in common in each sign over each
Speaker 3: time of the year. I mean, I don't think anybody
Speaker 3: had done this before. Any survey earlier than this had
Speaker 3: never had so many people involved in it. It really
Speaker 3: did seem to show that people had similar characteristics in common.
Speaker 3: And now only in the last couple of years there's
Speaker 3: a possibility scientifically as to why this might be the case.
Speaker 3: And that's the research that were done in Tel Aviv.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you real quickly, because you did bring
Speaker 1: up the British Museum, and we've had various people on
Speaker 1: that work at the British Museum. You're saying that you
Speaker 1: did discover some cuneiforms, which are the stone tablets, but
Speaker 1: they were just very vague in their description.
Speaker 3: Of the vague they basically mentioned what each of these.
Speaker 3: For example, the first signs I mentioned was the spider.
Speaker 3: They just had talked about that particular sign being called
Speaker 3: the brush. Now everybody thought that would be something the hair,
Speaker 3: but in early in early Sumerian, which is the first
Speaker 3: civilization to invent uniform the spider was known as the
Speaker 3: desert brush because it goes along quickly and it kicks
Speaker 3: up dust. So it was things like that, And they
Speaker 3: all the other particular creatures had they were given the
Speaker 3: names of gods. The gods that read. Each of the
Speaker 3: gods of the of the mess pertainments obviously was represented
Speaker 3: by animals in similar way that the lot of the
Speaker 3: Egyptian gods have have got animal heads, like the jackal
Speaker 3: headed god, a new bits and so on. But we
Speaker 3: didn't actually know, like, for example, there was one called
Speaker 3: pai yon Bong. I think that's how they pronounce it.
Speaker 3: I really would.
Speaker 1: I was changed.
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody does know. They can only work
Speaker 3: out roughly. Nobody knew. Well, I certainly didn't back then
Speaker 3: that that was a swan, or at least a god
Speaker 3: that was represented by a swan, And it wasn't. And
Speaker 3: so I've got all these representations and names of gods
Speaker 3: and sort of characteristics of these gods from these cuneiform things,
Speaker 3: but nothing actually said what animals would represent, only that
Speaker 3: animals represented them, but not what they were apart from
Speaker 3: a couple, which was the vulture and the snake. But
Speaker 3: other than that, we just didn't know until the discovery
Speaker 3: of Gobechy Teppe of all these carved animals. I mean,
Speaker 3: for those who don't know, Beckley Teppe is sort of
Speaker 3: like stone enge, except that hasn't got the lentil stones
Speaker 3: around the top of the arches, and it's like imagine
Speaker 3: once something like that, but a number of stone enges
Speaker 3: down in the ground so that the top half is
Speaker 3: visible and the tops of the stones in a kind
Speaker 3: of t shape. And there are a lot of these,
Speaker 3: and they were built around ten thousand years ago, and
Speaker 3: they are marvelous carvings, way before anybody else was carving
Speaker 3: things like this, and the animals really do look like
Speaker 3: the animals they're supposed to be. And the only reason
Speaker 3: it was preserved for so long is that when the
Speaker 3: people of Godecti Tepi moved away, probably because of climate
Speaker 3: change it got drier, they actually buried all these stone circles,
Speaker 3: so they survived and nobody knew they were there until recently.
Speaker 3: And when we saw what these particular animals were and
Speaker 3: their relation to each other drawn on stones in the circle,
Speaker 3: it became fairly obvious that they were connected in some way,
Speaker 3: at least with these ancient descriptions of the zodiac in
Speaker 3: cuneiform from ancient Mesopotamia. And that's how it was all
Speaker 3: put together.
Speaker 1: Wonderful, would you say, I mean, Gourbetti Teppe is a
Speaker 1: fairly recent discovery. Well, let's say ten years ago. That's
Speaker 1: when the Schmidt was releasing the data. We're going to
Speaker 1: take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to
Speaker 1: identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today,
Speaker 1: Graham Phillips, presenting his newest release, The Original Zodiac. Will
Speaker 1: be right back. My guest today is Graham Phillips. He's
Speaker 1: written a new book on ancient astrology, known as the
Speaker 1: Original Zodiac. What ancient astrology reveals about you, and what
Speaker 1: he has discovered is what he terms Mesopotamian astrology with
Speaker 1: eighteen zodiac signs. Did you make a connection with the
Speaker 1: Babylonians that they were the ones that were using the
Speaker 1: eighteen signed zodiac and then jump into the people of
Speaker 1: the Templar, not the Templars. I can't think of the
Speaker 1: name of the people who are part of go back
Speaker 1: to Tappy, but you know who I'm talking about, so
Speaker 1: that you're identifying them. But would you say that you
Speaker 1: call it the Mesopotamian zodiac, would you say that that's
Speaker 1: where you kind of made a aha moment with the
Speaker 1: Babylonians using the eighteen sign.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Basically, in the middle of Mesopotamia was an ancient
Speaker 3: area known as the Fertile Crescent. It's not really much
Speaker 3: of a crescent, it's more of a straight line, but
Speaker 3: it was a fertile area around the rivers Euphrates and
Speaker 3: the River Tigress, and it went from what's now the
Speaker 3: Gulf of the very southern part of what is now
Speaker 3: Iraq right up north and it ended in what's now
Speaker 3: eastern Turkey. But Beckley is at the top of that.
Speaker 3: Babylon's in the middle. But so, okay, the first civilization
Speaker 3: that we know of people who built cities and things
Speaker 3: are the Sumerians. They came from southern Mesopotamia. Now, they
Speaker 3: started building cities and became and seemed to have invented
Speaker 3: writing around five thousand, three hundred years ago, exactly the
Speaker 3: same time as the Egyptians started doing it in a
Speaker 3: completely different way. They didn't share the same writing system,
Speaker 3: they didn't build in the same way, they didn't have
Speaker 3: their art isn't anyway like the same as each other.
Speaker 3: And at the same time. Again, all the way over
Speaker 3: in India, in what well now what's part of Pakistan,
Speaker 3: the Indus civilization around the Indus Valley.
Speaker 4: They started doing it being building cities, developed writing and
Speaker 4: their own form of art exactly the same time, but
Speaker 4: totally dissimilar from the other two.
Speaker 3: Now there's a big mystery. What suddenly inspired three completely
Speaker 3: different civilizations for the first time ever to start building things,
Speaker 3: develop writing, and start making all these amazing carvings. It's
Speaker 3: a mystery.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now, returning to Mesopotamia, but they had earlier people before
Speaker 3: they started building cities in southern Mesopotamia, and they they
Speaker 3: used clay tablets to draw on, so they had some
Speaker 3: early form of communication drawing on these tablets, and they
Speaker 3: depicted the stars and things like this, and they also
Speaker 3: seemed to draw maps and so on, much before anybody
Speaker 3: else was doing it. In India or Egypt. So it
Speaker 3: goes way back, and it seems the further north that
Speaker 3: you go in Mesopotamia you've got earlier discoveries right up
Speaker 3: through into Turkey. Now I began to think, before they
Speaker 3: discovered Gebecley Tepe, this is back in the late nineties,
Speaker 3: I thought, I reckon, there's got to be some earlier civilizer.
Speaker 3: There's something earlier up there that all these people came from.
Speaker 3: And I thought they would be fairly primitive. But when
Speaker 3: g Beckley Teppe was discovered, it shown to have been
Speaker 3: as advanced as anything else. I mean, it's certainly as
Speaker 3: advanced a stone Enge that's only five thousand years old.
Speaker 1: For they had a cosmology, definitely, Yeah, and they had
Speaker 1: a cosmology.
Speaker 3: They're carving put things on stones that nobody else was
Speaker 3: doing for thousands of years. Well, it can't have been isolated.
Speaker 3: They've got to have come from somewhere. They've got to
Speaker 3: have learned how to cut stones. We know, for example,
Speaker 3: with stone Enge, that they were doing that over a
Speaker 3: good few centuries before building that kind of smaller stone
Speaker 3: circles until they could eventually do Stonehenge. We know that
Speaker 3: they gradually develop different forms of pottery, and they were
Speaker 3: learning to fire pottery in a better way, and that
Speaker 3: we could see the progression. But there's nothing like that
Speaker 3: at Kabekley Tepe. It suddenly seems to be a kind
Speaker 3: of culture that's thousands of years in advance of what
Speaker 3: it should be, and there's nothing around there that sort
Speaker 3: of shows how they got to that point. And then
Speaker 3: if he continued to go north, it's not much further
Speaker 3: north than that, and you've got the Black Sea now
Speaker 3: that is now, I mean, a huge great lake if
Speaker 3: you like, which is bigger than all the Great Lakes combined.
Speaker 3: That's until around about ten thousand years ago, was a
Speaker 3: low lying area and it was separated from the Mediterranean
Speaker 3: by a big spur of rocks, like a mountain chain,
Speaker 3: if you like. But then as the ice melted after
Speaker 3: the end of the Ice Age and sea levels rose,
Speaker 3: eventually the sea poured over the top of this thing,
Speaker 3: and there was like an almighty waterfall, hundreds of times
Speaker 3: larger than the Niagara Falls that poured into this area.
Speaker 3: And over a period of years the whole thing was flooded.
Speaker 3: And that is believed to be by many people. The
Speaker 3: story behind Noah's flood in the Bible. Now, it's very
Speaker 3: likely that the original civilization that had developed how to
Speaker 3: build things like the Beckley Teppe had come from what's
Speaker 3: now at the bottom of the Dead Sea. So it's
Speaker 3: basically a lot of civilization I think we're talking about
Speaker 3: that may have event originally come up with these ideas.
Speaker 1: Yeah. What I like about your book, Graham, is that
Speaker 1: you are not able to find how they define the
Speaker 1: signs of the eighteen symbols. You were able to basically
Speaker 1: you reinterpreted them and you gave them your own personality
Speaker 1: and characters, as you call them. One of the things
Speaker 1: I want to ask you is why would they take
Speaker 1: have eighteen? Of course the Maya you say, there's many
Speaker 1: more than eighteen, But the Maya are also a conundrum
Speaker 1: in terms of development. We really don't know a lot
Speaker 1: about them. But why would we go from eighteen to twelve?
Speaker 1: Was as simple as it was, It just simplifying the
Speaker 1: whole process. Do you think what's you're thinking on that?
Speaker 3: Well, these signs is now we just considered a zodiac
Speaker 3: signs to be something to do with When we read
Speaker 3: in the paper, we find what our sign is much
Speaker 3: likely to happen to us. Yeah, we want to read
Speaker 3: our sun side to find out what we like or
Speaker 3: what have, who we're going to marry or something. But
Speaker 3: these particular signs back in ancient Greece, and we know
Speaker 3: this because they've recorded it where they're months of the year.
Speaker 3: So remember I said it started at March twenty first,
Speaker 3: that's when the zodiac starts. Now, the first sign of
Speaker 3: the zodiac starts around March twenty first, at beginning of
Speaker 3: the ancient Greek new year, at the beginning of the
Speaker 3: growing season, at the equinox, when day and night of
Speaker 3: equal length in March, and they had twelve because before that,
Speaker 3: before Hellenistic Greece, in Ancient Greece, they used to have
Speaker 3: the months, as the name suggest is, moons, their moons
Speaker 3: in the year, and that are approximately twelve moons every year.
Speaker 3: In fact, there's more like twelve and a half, so
Speaker 3: some years have thirteen moons in them, from new moon
Speaker 3: to new moon or full moon to full moon and
Speaker 3: some so basically, if you end up starting like a
Speaker 3: lot of the ancient cultures did, starting the ah, starting
Speaker 3: the new year on the first full moon after the
Speaker 3: spring equinox. In other words, it could be at the
Speaker 3: beginning of April. It could be the end of March.
Speaker 3: You have a full moon, or sometimes in some cultures
Speaker 3: it's a new moon to the next new moon. So
Speaker 3: you start with a full moon the first that the
Speaker 3: first full moon after the twenty first of March, so
Speaker 3: you then have the first month is to the next
Speaker 3: four moon and the next one where you're going to
Speaker 3: get sometimes twelve in a year. Sometimes you're going to
Speaker 3: get twelve and a half because it's the moon to
Speaker 3: go from all for more these twenty eight days, well
Speaker 3: twelve twenty eight days doesn't fit another that is thirteen,
Speaker 3: so you got like twelve and a half, and it
Speaker 3: was very awkward. Keep changing the calendar every year, and
Speaker 3: we've still got something that spills over from the ancient calendar.
Speaker 3: It is why Easter changes every year because when the
Speaker 3: Church decided to base what Easter is, they based it
Speaker 3: on based on pagan calendars such as the Anglo Saxons
Speaker 3: that started their years at the first full moon after
Speaker 3: the spring equinox, and that's how Easter is still worked out.
Speaker 3: They have Easter is the first. It has to be
Speaker 3: on a Sunday, the first Sunday following the first full
Speaker 3: moon after the equinox. That's why it changes all the time.
Speaker 3: And that goes way back to how the Greeks used
Speaker 3: to divide up the year. But then somewhere about the
Speaker 3: time of Alexander or that period the Hellenistic Greek color
Speaker 3: chat they turned around and said, because we're conquering off
Speaker 3: the world now, we're going to have to standardize time.
Speaker 3: So they decided to chop the months into roughly the
Speaker 3: same time, so it's either thirty days or thirty one days.
Speaker 3: One's about twenty eight. But they created the months we
Speaker 3: now well we now know as zodiac science. They were
Speaker 3: there months.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now that I know that it.
Speaker 3: Comes about because of something completely different.
Speaker 1: Okay, now that I know that you've been studying this
Speaker 1: for decades, Graham. Today the most widely used astrological focus
Speaker 1: is the Western chart, the Vedic, Hindu chart, and the
Speaker 1: Chinese chart. Would you say in your study, is that
Speaker 1: they have all extracted the majority of their data from
Speaker 1: the Mesopotanian zodiac or are they taking it piecemeal and,
Speaker 1: as you say, developing their own sense of the character
Speaker 1: development on each of them those zodiacs. That's a big question.
Speaker 3: No, But I think that this is only guess work. Well,
Speaker 3: I mean, I know what the Greeks did. I know
Speaker 3: they because it is recorded that they sat down over
Speaker 3: many years and generations and generally worked out that people
Speaker 3: born at certain times shared certain characteristics in common, and
Speaker 3: they made note of them. It took forever. I mean,
Speaker 3: now I could recreate this ancient Zodiah with an ai
Speaker 3: ever recorded. They couldn't do that. It took forever. Now,
Speaker 3: I think that this, and because of the research that's
Speaker 3: now shown that people bought at different times of the
Speaker 3: year really do seem to have characteristics in common. And
Speaker 3: people all swear that, you know, even people who don't
Speaker 3: tend to believe in mystical things will tend to swear
Speaker 3: by their sun sign and say I really am like that,
Speaker 3: or they'll ask you, oh, you sound like a scorpio
Speaker 3: to me, or whatever. And I think that this was
Speaker 3: observed in many places, and I would say the Mayons
Speaker 3: and the Indians and the Egyptians all did something similar. Now,
Speaker 3: why they divided it into eighteen signs? It seems to
Speaker 3: have something to do with the same reason. Do you
Speaker 3: know a circle is divided into three hundred and sixty degrees? Now,
Speaker 3: why three hundred and sixty degrees, why not five hundred?
Speaker 3: This thirty six thing seems to have been very important
Speaker 3: in ancient times. Eighteen is half of thirty six. The
Speaker 3: ancient Egyptians but originally had thirty six signs of their zodiac.
Speaker 3: We don't know exactly know how they all wear until
Speaker 3: that Dendra zodiac came along, and that's got not thirty six.
Speaker 3: That's slightly different. But they eighteen seems to have something
Speaker 3: to do with because that eighteen is half thirty six
Speaker 3: and thirty six is a tenth of three d. In
Speaker 3: other words, it's something to do with the way they
Speaker 3: divided the year up. And I don't quite know what
Speaker 3: it is, because I'm no expert on dividing the years up,
Speaker 3: not other than what I've search to do with the
Speaker 3: Mesopotamian zodiac, some mathematical thing. Anyway, I'm going to pick.
Speaker 1: Your brain in a minute here, Graham on some specifics
Speaker 1: on these different zodiacs in the Mesopotamian calendar. But before
Speaker 1: I do that, were you able to identify the majority
Speaker 1: of the eighteen and gobeck the tepee on the te
Speaker 1: pillars or are you only able to find a handful I.
Speaker 3: Managed to get them all in the end. There's the spider,
Speaker 3: the orerox, which is an early form of an early
Speaker 3: wild cattle, not like a buffalo, the mouflon, which is
Speaker 3: an early wild sheep with massive horns, the vulture, the gazelle,
Speaker 3: the serpent, the crayfish, the lion. You swan.
Speaker 1: I found the crayfish. That was the big one. I
Speaker 1: was wondering because I've never seen a fish on any
Speaker 1: of the pillars.
Speaker 3: You found one, a crayfish. The crayfish is on pillars.
Speaker 3: You can see. It's funny, little leggs. Wow, it's like
Speaker 3: a lobster, a little lobster.
Speaker 1: Oh, crayfish is like a yeah, it's like a lobster.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just Yes, there is a fish there. But
Speaker 3: on the Beckley Teppie things, there isn't. On the stones,
Speaker 3: there isn't a fish, but there's wavy lines that seem
Speaker 3: to represent water sagged lines. So the only reason I
Speaker 3: know it would be a fish rather than just saying
Speaker 3: zig zag lines is because the god or goddess in
Speaker 3: fact that represents that month in the Babylonian Cuneiform tablets
Speaker 3: is represented by a fish, so that seems to be
Speaker 3: what it is. But yeah, no, all the signs are there.
Speaker 3: I mean it starts to say with the spider. If
Speaker 3: you're bought between March the twenty first and April the ninth,
Speaker 3: you're the spider. The spider is a solitary creature with
Speaker 3: the remarkable ability to create an extraordinary web. Likewise, those
Speaker 3: born in this sign are independent and highly creative thinkers.
Speaker 3: That's the way I've written it, based on what I've
Speaker 3: found out. Famous spiders, Joann Sebastian Bart. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of musicians here, Andrew Lloyd Webber, Elton, John, Diana Ross,
Speaker 3: Lady Gaga all born in that sign. It seems to
Speaker 3: be a sign of musicians. That's amazing when you're born.
Speaker 1: I was Swan September.
Speaker 3: I'm a swamp too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I looked it up. Oh you are wonderful. Before
Speaker 1: we hey, I want to ask you the Mesopotamian Zodier.
Speaker 1: So if Gobecley Tippy, if the people who are the
Speaker 1: temple guardians or educators or whatever, we don't really still
Speaker 1: don't really know what Gobecky Teppy was. It was a temple.
Speaker 1: We know that. Uh does that reflect on their understanding
Speaker 1: on planetary constellations and their influence on people. Why would
Speaker 1: they what's your what's your decode for these astrological science
Speaker 1: of Goebecery, Tippy? What does that make you? What is that?
Speaker 1: How does that? How do we reference that? What?
Speaker 3: I would say that if they considered that people were
Speaker 3: born at certain times the year they noticed they may
Speaker 3: have shared characteristics in common, then they would have considered
Speaker 3: that there have been some sort of entity, some kind
Speaker 3: of god or some sort of spirit that was responsible
Speaker 3: for that. And because they were mainly in an agrarian society,
Speaker 3: I mean, they didn't build cities, They lived off the land,
Speaker 3: they would have associated things with the animals that that
Speaker 3: that they were around them. They were a society that
Speaker 3: seems to have been transferring, transforming from a hunter gatherer
Speaker 3: society to people who are farming for the first time.
Speaker 3: But to be quite honest, I don't think they could
Speaker 3: have built what they built without some point in the
Speaker 3: past being a much more settled farming type communities. They
Speaker 3: wouldn't have had time to build those things or stay
Speaker 3: in the same place to build those things if there
Speaker 3: were hunter gatherers. So, in other words, everything tied up
Speaker 3: with the forces of nature. I mean, plants are grown
Speaker 3: at certain times, they've planted at certain times, they're reaped
Speaker 3: at certain times. And each of these creatures was probably
Speaker 3: that they saw around them was associated with that time
Speaker 3: of the year. So at the time of the year
Speaker 3: when you've got a wolf or you've got a swallow
Speaker 3: or an eagle or whatever, they would have thought those
Speaker 3: creatures needed to be appeased or I don't think that
Speaker 3: they did sacrifices, but certain rituals or ceremonies would take
Speaker 3: place for that particular creature to look fondly upon them,
Speaker 3: so that crops grew, so that they that the fruit
Speaker 3: worked out right, or so there wasn't the two about
Speaker 3: a frost or or whatever. And I think that's how
Speaker 3: they thought about these creatures. They had a living association
Speaker 3: with the with the stars out there that they thought
Speaker 3: represented these creatures and the creatures around them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very big on that. Your colleague Andrew Collins
Speaker 1: believes that the original people who founded Go Beckley, Teppe, Karahan,
Speaker 1: Teppy and the other Teppees were from a very sophisticated culture.
Speaker 1: He doesn't he doesn't say Atlantis, but he he intimates
Speaker 1: that they were very sophisticated. What do you believe were
Speaker 1: the people?
Speaker 3: Well, as I mentioned before, I think they came from
Speaker 3: what's now at the bottom of the Black Sea. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: since they've had a kind of really advanced sonar and
Speaker 3: and underwater detection equipment that can see the remains of
Speaker 3: what might be down there. I mean it's been down
Speaker 3: there for thousands of years, it's going to have You
Speaker 3: can't just sort of go down in a sub and
Speaker 3: see it. Since I've actually had the sort of things
Speaker 3: that can look down and tell what used to be
Speaker 3: there is the science of an ancient civilization. Then since then,
Speaker 3: it's only been in the last few years it's been
Speaker 3: a war zone because it's right by Ukraine that the
Speaker 3: Russians are and the Ukrainians are fighting over and so
Speaker 3: you're not going to go out there with it. I
Speaker 3: mean you go there at your peril. You're likely to
Speaker 3: get blown up if you try and do a marine
Speaker 3: survey at the bottom of the Black Sea. So we're
Speaker 3: going to have to wait for that war to be
Speaker 3: over and things to calm down before we really know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing. We're going to take a short commercial break
Speaker 1: to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will
Speaker 1: return shortly with my guest today, Graham Phillips, introducing his
Speaker 1: latest book, The Original Zodiac. We'll be right back with you.
Speaker 1: It's the new year, and so we are talking about zodiac,
Speaker 1: the astrology, the horoscope of the world, the ancient world,
Speaker 1: and how our ancestors used astrology, and some hints at
Speaker 1: some sites around the Middle East that have very very
Speaker 1: old evidence of astrology as well. For those of you listening,
Speaker 1: Graham has listed the eighteen different Mesopotamian zodiac, the original Zodiac,
Speaker 1: and he has the actual date range, so you can
Speaker 1: find which zodiac you are. And can you give us
Speaker 1: if I give you, like, pull out three of these
Speaker 1: unusual signs. Can we give a little highlight on the
Speaker 1: personality and the character of the person that reflects Yes, sure, okay,
Speaker 1: let's do. And I'm fascinated by this one position six,
Speaker 1: which is the serpent, which is people born July second
Speaker 1: through July twentieth. What is the character of that person?
Speaker 3: Okay, I've written the movings down there, so I can say,
Speaker 3: you say, with that sort of trying to remember it
Speaker 3: all because.
Speaker 1: Of highlight, Graham, because I know you go very into
Speaker 1: a great deal of death in the book, just to
Speaker 1: give us a highly because I want to go and
Speaker 1: do a handful before we.
Speaker 3: Difference of people who are considered to be to be
Speaker 3: a mine of knowledge. Serpent has always been the sign
Speaker 3: of wisdom in the ancient world, and as the serpent
Speaker 3: has also also been the sign of medicine. Like the
Speaker 3: one with the two serpents around it, serpent is a
Speaker 3: sign of healings. So a lot of people born in
Speaker 3: this sign tend to be people who find professions in
Speaker 3: the doctors, nurses, that sort of thing. There are also
Speaker 3: people who are creative there. They tend to have crea.
Speaker 3: Although they're created, they tend to not go along with
Speaker 3: others and not the sort of people who follow fashions easy.
Speaker 3: They're the kind of people who tend to want to
Speaker 3: make their own fashion and dressing a way, for example,
Speaker 3: that's different to others. That's the that's a simple answer
Speaker 3: to the.
Speaker 1: Sertment, beg you, that was great. Let's do because this
Speaker 1: one's curious to me. The crayfish. These are people who
Speaker 1: are born July twenty first through August tenth.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The crayfish is basically a small lobster and it's people.
Speaker 1: He's seen it.
Speaker 3: I mean I've never eaten one, but they're, you know,
Speaker 3: small lobster looking thing. They were. Kubec Tepi isn't the
Speaker 3: sort of place where you would find things like that now,
Speaker 3: or in that northern part of Mesopotamia or in many parts.
Speaker 3: But it was much much wetter back at the time.
Speaker 3: There was much more rainfall, it was much more It's
Speaker 3: a much more easier place to live than it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ten thousand years ago.
Speaker 3: Ten thousand years ago, and crayfish, based on the archaeological find,
Speaker 3: was a main part of their diet. They must there
Speaker 3: must have been loads of them in the local rivers
Speaker 3: because I mean they're about this big. I mean like
Speaker 3: us eating shrimps now, I suppose, and they were considered
Speaker 3: a food of choice when they were traveling around. They
Speaker 3: could never eat crayfish, so crayfish were et at We
Speaker 3: know this. We don't know exactly what the people at
Speaker 3: with Beckley Teppy were doing, but we know what the
Speaker 3: Babylonians thought about. The early civilizations thought about crayfish. They
Speaker 3: were considered to be royal fish. They were considered to
Speaker 3: be something you only ate at special occasions. People who
Speaker 3: are born in that sign, enjoy themselves. They like to celebrate.
Speaker 3: They tend to be the kind of person who is
Speaker 3: the center of attention. They are extroverted, and they are
Speaker 3: associated with entertainments and laughter and fun. They're there. Doesn't
Speaker 3: mean to say that they're completely fun loving and not serious,
Speaker 3: but they're the kind of people. From the outside point
Speaker 3: of view, they look like the kind of people that
Speaker 3: are enjoying life, and they are good entertainers. They're good
Speaker 3: leaders too, or at least they can inspire people. They're
Speaker 3: good speakers. That's what people are going under the crayfishes.
Speaker 1: Basically, I like this a lot, Grahama. I like what
Speaker 1: you're having to seeing a lot. I want I want
Speaker 1: you to talk a little bit about how the shaman
Speaker 1: at goebecley Teppe would work with these individuals. And I'm
Speaker 1: just assuming they would cast a zodiac or an astrological
Speaker 1: chart for different people. Let's talk about the healing and
Speaker 1: the wellness aspect. If you know someone's character and we're
Speaker 1: talking about hormonal releases and stuff like that, you can
Speaker 1: use that as a form of care healthcare too, can't you.
Speaker 1: Someone who may.
Speaker 3: Be experiencing probably did based on this isn't from Gebeckley
Speaker 3: Tep because there's not enough work being done. Now, there's
Speaker 3: not been enough. G Beckley Teppy is found to know
Speaker 3: exactly how they want to bad this. But getting a
Speaker 3: couple thousand years later than that, there are early stone
Speaker 3: circles found in northern Iraq that have got these creatures.
Speaker 3: Some of these creatures carved on these stones, not to
Speaker 3: the extent and not as good as Quebecu Tepe, because
Speaker 3: they seem to have been going backwards in a kind
Speaker 3: of technological sense, until suddenly they jumped forward ahead with
Speaker 3: the Samarians over a few thousand years later. But based
Speaker 3: on some of these finds, what's happened is that they've found,
Speaker 3: for example, near Ninivah, the ancient city of Ninevah, which
Speaker 3: is in what's now northern Iraq. In there but before
Speaker 3: ninev was built as a city, these little stone circles
Speaker 3: have got these. Near each of the stones they find
Speaker 3: bones and they're the bones of the animals associated with
Speaker 3: each of these signs. So for example, they find the
Speaker 3: bones of swans which no longer live in that area
Speaker 3: it's far too dry now, buried beneath a stone which
Speaker 3: seems to be in the area that would align with
Speaker 3: that particular zodiac on the on the twenty first of March,
Speaker 3: the ancient New year, as I was talking about. So okay,
Speaker 3: so they were putting bones of the animals next to
Speaker 3: all these, burying the animals in little graves in a circle.
Speaker 3: But outside of that, they've found pottery that inside it
Speaker 3: that when the archaeologists are able to analyze what's there,
Speaker 3: they've found pottery that has substances in it which certainly
Speaker 3: wouldn't be for eating. And they're not sort of something
Speaker 3: you would have for a loosergenical purposes to have visions.
Speaker 3: They're things that are used for healing, things that are analgesic,
Speaker 3: things that can cure things like ringworm in the ancient world,
Speaker 3: aren't used as of vapor chest rubs. In other words,
Speaker 3: each of these plants also seems to have been associated
Speaker 3: with each of these signs. So there's a whole lot
Speaker 3: to be discovered to do with these ancient medicine. They thought, well,
Speaker 3: people born at a certain time of the year, they'll
Speaker 3: respond better to this medicine than that. But we don't know.
Speaker 3: Only it's only tantanizing glimpses of what went on. But
Speaker 3: it's fascinating and they were knowing. They did this way
Speaker 3: before the first civilizations were built that we know of.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a huge, huge advantage for healing. If
Speaker 1: you really know that the person's physiological makeup and what
Speaker 1: influences these hormones, which are huge parts of the body,
Speaker 1: that's a gigantic leap in research and discovery.
Speaker 3: Well, it's more than just looking at people and saying, ah,
Speaker 3: they look a bit like a ram. They may behave
Speaker 3: a little bit like a lion. They are No, they
Speaker 3: obviously there's a lot of psychology going on here. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of physiology, medicine, and no. I mean, and
Speaker 3: this I think maybe at that can't no proof, But
Speaker 3: to my mind it is the remnants of some earlier
Speaker 3: civilization that maybe what's at the bottom of the Black Sea.
Speaker 3: I can't see what else it would be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great idea. Do you think that the Chinese,
Speaker 1: the Hindu which are the Indians, the Greeks and so forth,
Speaker 1: the Maya got a blueprint for the basics of astrology
Speaker 1: and then kept developing it to a high degree.
Speaker 3: It's difficult to tell because when I was mentioned those
Speaker 3: three civilizations that started off at the same time Egypt,
Speaker 3: in Africa, Mesopotament with the Sumerians, and then way over
Speaker 3: in India with the Indians, varily civilization at the same time.
Speaker 3: There's evidence, although it hasn't been thoroughly investigated, that it
Speaker 3: was a pre Olbic civilization. In Center from America, they
Speaker 3: were building pyramids, not out of stone, but out of
Speaker 3: you know, out of earth, and then covering the outsides
Speaker 3: with kind of slabs if you like, to make it
Speaker 3: look for the whole world as if you'd built the
Speaker 3: Bitimen out of stone. They there's evidence that they were
Speaker 3: doing that about the same time, and then something happened.
Speaker 3: It's not known quite what, but this civilization kind of
Speaker 3: reached a bit of a dead end, and it wasn't
Speaker 3: for a few hundred, few thousand year no bar half
Speaker 3: a century later, that the old Mechs actually got going.
Speaker 3: So it doesn't it seems all over the world, in
Speaker 3: places that were completely separated from each other, they all
Speaker 3: started building the same thing, early forms of writing, building
Speaker 3: stuff that they'd never done before. Civilization has got going
Speaker 3: something unless you believe that spacemen came down and did it,
Speaker 3: which obviously a lot of people do. I mean, they
Speaker 3: keep having me on it for some reason or other
Speaker 3: to normally what I do is talk about the historical
Speaker 3: things I've discovered, like King Arthur and Excalaba seems to
Speaker 3: have been real. And then they have Georgio saying it's
Speaker 3: a Reagan. It's a Reagan, fair enough, But anyway, unless
Speaker 3: it's Aliens, then somehow there's got to be a connection
Speaker 3: between these people. And is that something to do with
Speaker 3: what was at the bottom of the Black Sea. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, I know that was much earlier on.
Speaker 3: There might be another part of this civilization that was
Speaker 3: now that maybe now at the bottom of the Black Sea,
Speaker 3: that must have spread somewhere else. People like Graham Hancock
Speaker 3: say there was a early civilization that spread out and
Speaker 3: still all these.
Speaker 1: Might be so yeah, Hancock's you know the way gods
Speaker 1: Quetza Quarol and so forth, educating the Meserle American people.
Speaker 1: And then you see people in China and people in Europe,
Speaker 1: people in Austria. It's hard to know. It's hard to know.
Speaker 1: This book is fascinating. The original zodiac, what ancient astrology
Speaker 1: reveals about you. As we close, Graham and we've brought
Speaker 1: this up in the very beginning. Can we look at
Speaker 1: continents like the US or the UK, or Australia or
Speaker 1: whatever and do some predictions using this Mesopotamian zodiac as
Speaker 1: to how the year is going to unfold.
Speaker 3: Well, basically, I won't going to the whole detyls of
Speaker 3: value work. They just explain it because we're running out
Speaker 3: of time. The symbol that appears to be full this coming.
Speaker 3: That are two main signs that are important for the
Speaker 3: coming year. This is twenty seventy six. Yeah, over this year.
Speaker 3: The first is the is the vulture. Now, vultures as animals,
Speaker 3: they basically pick up carcasses and they push each other
Speaker 3: out of the way, and they sort of grab what
Speaker 3: they want. They don't go hunting for their own, so
Speaker 3: they're grabbing stuff here, there, and there, and for the
Speaker 3: world as a whole, it is a time when people
Speaker 3: start grabbing other people's possessions. It's almost as if, say
Speaker 3: a leader of a country decides to grab another country's possessions.
Speaker 3: I think that's just happened with what President Trump has
Speaker 3: done in You've already got this going on in Russia
Speaker 3: with Putin trying to grab other places like Ukraine. I
Speaker 3: know that China certainly has got interest in taking over
Speaker 3: in Taiwan. So this is going to be something that
Speaker 3: could be happening this year. Because it's influenced by the vulture,
Speaker 3: there's a secondary influence. It's almost like a lunar influence.
Speaker 3: But I haven't gone into all that, but the lunar
Speaker 3: influence is the one and that basically tells you what
Speaker 3: to do about the negative part of the vulture in
Speaker 3: this particular year, and that is the swan is a
Speaker 3: creature that is gaily, is graceful in the air, graceful
Speaker 3: in the water, but waddles about on the land and
Speaker 3: it has to get into the water or take off
Speaker 3: before it can really do what it's supposed to do.
Speaker 3: So it's really a case of people should be working together.
Speaker 3: Those who aren't being grabbed by somebody else should stick together,
Speaker 3: and they should work in harmony like a swan flying
Speaker 3: in the air. Another thing that the swan represents is
Speaker 3: nature itself and its association with water. And it may
Speaker 3: be that people should start taking a bit more notice
Speaker 3: of climate change and things like that that a lot
Speaker 3: of people don't want to know about at all.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that fantastic climate change this uh grabbing.
Speaker 1: The vulture effect is much in play right now. Obviously,
Speaker 1: is there anything else on a subtle level, let's talk
Speaker 1: about health wise, because I'm curious what a larger entity
Speaker 1: of humans are going to be dealing with health wise
Speaker 1: this year. Do you have any sense on that? Yeah?
Speaker 3: If again, it's the creature that every every year has
Speaker 3: got a couple of the signs associated with it. One
Speaker 3: is considered the sun, the other is considered the moon,
Speaker 3: and the sun sign, as I say, is the vulture,
Speaker 3: and the moon sign on this particular occasion is the swan. Now,
Speaker 3: if you attach that to medical matters on a worldly scale,
Speaker 3: the vulture is something it feeds on carrion, and it's
Speaker 3: not In other words, it doesn't hunt its own prey.
Speaker 3: It waits for something else to order it to die off.
Speaker 3: In other words, there's not enough productivity going on now.
Speaker 3: This suggests that there could be illnesses that come about
Speaker 3: in places that are not able to feed themselves properly.
Speaker 3: In other words, that could be outbreaks of things in
Speaker 3: third third world countries. There's nothing with those particular signs.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not saying this is absolutely right. This
Speaker 3: is simply what would seem to have been believed by
Speaker 3: the ancient Mesopotamians that it's not a sign there's going
Speaker 3: to be another pandemic or something like that, but basically
Speaker 3: it's a year that it's going to be more political
Speaker 3: upheavals than anything to do with diseases or pandemics. The swan,
Speaker 3: the moon sign of the swan, suggests that things could
Speaker 3: go a lot better this year than people expect, because
Speaker 3: remember the swan, If you just saw it waddling around
Speaker 3: on the ground, you'd think that stupid creature can't do anything.
Speaker 3: You see it flying and it can fly miles, it
Speaker 3: can fly forever, and you see it swimming. Right, It
Speaker 3: means that people have basically got a chance to get
Speaker 3: out of this mess, and this year is going to
Speaker 3: offer opportunities for the world to start going back onto
Speaker 3: a more even kill than it's been recently.
Speaker 1: Wow, Graham Phillips, a pleasure having you on the program.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you as we conclude this use
Speaker 1: of AI, I thought was wonderful to hear you talk
Speaker 1: about giving you an idea of what's going on. Do
Speaker 1: you see AI beginning to decipher ancient Sumerian cuneiforms, or
Speaker 1: aid in our understanding of earlier civilizations. I haven't heard
Speaker 1: any really good. You're the first person I've really heard
Speaker 1: was able to use it with any sense of quality.
Speaker 1: But I haven't heard anything pop as it have coming
Speaker 1: out from the archaeological community.
Speaker 3: No, they won't because the thing is that the way
Speaker 3: archaeologists do things is they dig in the ground, they
Speaker 3: find what's there, and they interpret it. They're scientists, they
Speaker 3: know their stuff. Historians they find ancient manuscripts, they determine
Speaker 3: what they mean and what it's all about. You get
Speaker 3: people who studied folklore who learn all about local traditions
Speaker 3: and things, and people study anthropology. Now, each of these
Speaker 3: guys are so completely focused on their thing they have
Speaker 3: to be to be able to do it. They focus
Speaker 3: so much they don't see what's going on through. The
Speaker 3: archaeologist doesn't see what the historian's doing, and vice versa,
Speaker 3: and they don't see what the folklare is of the
Speaker 3: anthropology is doing that. The Internet and it's the AI
Speaker 3: that can see everything. It's astonishing and how quickly it does.
Speaker 3: It can bring all this stuff together in one piece
Speaker 3: and say, right then, it's up to me, for example,
Speaker 3: researching it to sort that stuff out and say, ah,
Speaker 3: that ties up with that. And I'm not going to
Speaker 3: ask the AI. I'll say, how there's been pottery found
Speaker 3: in Mesopotamia dating from around seven thousand BC. Has there
Speaker 3: been anything found elsewhere in the world dating for that
Speaker 3: time that's similar to this. You've got your answer. Archaeologists
Speaker 3: and historians aren't going to use this. I can because
Speaker 3: I take an overall perspective and I think I'm one
Speaker 3: of the first people doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that the original Zoria just came out.
Speaker 1: For those of you who listening, you can get a
Speaker 1: copy of it on Amazon. Graham give us your website
Speaker 1: and how people can follow up and learn more about
Speaker 1: your work.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, my website is Graham Phillips dot net, dot
Speaker 3: com dot net, Graham Philips dot net. And on the
Speaker 3: first page there you will see all my books are
Speaker 3: about over the years, and you can just click on them, like,
Speaker 3: for example, the book I've just been talking about, and
Speaker 3: then there's a good few pages explaining what it's all about. Also,
Speaker 3: there's the links to my facebooks, my Facebook pages, and
Speaker 3: my a, my youe channel and everything else. So Graham
Speaker 3: Phillips dot net.
Speaker 1: Right, are you fairly active on YouTube, aren't you?
Speaker 3: You're doing Oh yeah, yeah on YouTube a lot, Yes,
Speaker 3: I do. I've got three I've got I've got a
Speaker 3: group called Questing, which I'm getting lots of people to
Speaker 3: join about trying to sort of do some amateurs sort
Speaker 3: of history on archaeological investigations and solving clues and looking
Speaker 3: for artifacts. I've got my own page which for my
Speaker 3: own account, which is people who know me, and then
Speaker 3: I've got a page. I think I've got about twenty
Speaker 3: five twenty something thousand followers on that. I haven't been
Speaker 3: doing that for that long, and I put up all
Speaker 3: the latest You mentioned that I was putting up a
Speaker 3: lot about King Arthur and doing archaeological digs. That's where
Speaker 3: I've put all the latest news on research that I've
Speaker 3: been doing. Yeah, so just putting us look for Graham
Speaker 3: Phillips author, I think. But there's link to that on
Speaker 3: the first page of my website. Anyway.
Speaker 1: Excellent, Hey Graham, this is fun. It was great having
Speaker 1: you on the program, and much success on this new book.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Indeed, all eighteen signs are in this book and I'll
Speaker 1: mention that he goes into great detail, and this is
Speaker 1: eighty five percent of the book, great detail on each
Speaker 1: of these Mesopotamian zodiac signs, from Spider, which has number one,
Speaker 1: all the way down to Fox, which is eighteen. And
Speaker 1: it's easy to find your date your zodiac because it
Speaker 1: has the date ranges. As an example, the vulture is
Speaker 1: May twenty second through June tenth, the gazelle is June
Speaker 1: eleventh through July one, the Serpent is July second through
Speaker 1: July twentieth, and so forth and so on, and it's
Speaker 1: we're really well done. And if you follow along, you
Speaker 1: read the book, which by the way, you can get
Speaker 1: on Amazon, came out about six sixty days ago, no yeah,
Speaker 1: to October, and if you go to the website he
Speaker 1: follows it up with other details on the interpretation. Now
Speaker 1: what is I don't know. I think it's not so
Speaker 1: much challenging to hear that he believes that go Beckley
Speaker 1: Tippy has evidence of this. I think that it's probably
Speaker 1: a good hypothesis to say that these eighteen these eighteen
Speaker 1: horoscopes are at Gobecy Tippy, at Carahan Tippy because they
Speaker 1: are observational, their design is observational temples. There's various cuts
Speaker 1: in the stone for light to pass through. They're made
Speaker 1: to see their sunset, the sunrise, and the sociices and
Speaker 1: the and you know, different times of year. So very
Speaker 1: very likely that this is not a high apothesis, that
Speaker 1: he's really got something here. And this is a good
Speaker 1: book to look at if you're into the ancients and
Speaker 1: what they were interested in. Eighteen zodiac numbers. You know,
Speaker 1: he said something else too, I thought was interesting. He
Speaker 1: mentioned more than eighteen were used by the Maya and
Speaker 1: that's something I got to check out the original zodiac.
Speaker 1: What ancient astrology reveals about you just came out and
Speaker 1: get it on Amazon. Hey, the new year has started.
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Speaker 1: Come out and join us. All right, that's it for
Speaker 1: this program. I want I think my guest today Graham Phillips,
Speaker 1: coming to us from south of from London, England. As
Speaker 1: always the team of Geltour, Mark Foster Infeya Bravar you
Speaker 1: guys rock Happy New Year, Happy twenty and twenty, Happy
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Let's look forward to a good year,
Speaker 1: all right. Take care and be well, and we'll talk
Speaker 1: to you next time.