1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: The mistake that we make when we think of the 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,599 Mandela effect is that in some ways we maybe see 3 00:00:05,599 --> 00:00:08,400 it as something that is a problem or something that 4 00:00:08,599 --> 00:00:11,519 is a kind of weakness of the human psyche. But 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,439 if you take it from a symbolic perspective, it's actually 6 00:00:14,439 --> 00:00:16,960 the very opposite. This is, in some ways the strength 7 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,879 of human psyche is to remember patterns and to want 8 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:26,120 to stick things to the greater pattern, so that you 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,519 have this sense that the world is meaningful and that 10 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,600 the world has coherence. 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: This is Jonathan. 12 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:58,759 Speaker 1: Peshel, Welcome to the symbolic world. The past decade or so, 13 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,280 people have been talking more more about what they call 14 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:07,040 the Mandela effect. This effect was coined by someone in 15 00:01:07,359 --> 00:01:10,519 two thousand and nine who realized that she had false 16 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,159 memories about Nelson Mandela was certain that he had died 17 00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:18,079 in prison, and although he never died in prison, obviously 18 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,040 he left prison and became the president, and so she 19 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,239 coined it the Mandela effect. And what it is really 20 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,799 is that we realize that many people, not just us, 21 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,519 have false memories of certain details of the world, and 22 00:01:32,599 --> 00:01:35,719 that for some reason, we all have the same false memory. 23 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,000 Some famous examples, of course, include the monopoly Man, who 24 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,239 people remember having a monocle, although he doesn't have a monocle. 25 00:01:43,719 --> 00:01:47,079 There's the Fruit of the Loom logo that is a 26 00:01:47,079 --> 00:01:50,640 bunch of fruits together, but people remember having a cornucopia 27 00:01:50,719 --> 00:01:55,640 behind the fruits. And the other one that's quite famous 28 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,560 is the Berenstein Bears and how the Berenstein Bears people 29 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,200 think that Berenstein is written at the end with the 30 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,200 ei n, where in fact it's Berenstein with ai n 31 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,159 at the end, and everybody kind of remembers. And you know, 32 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:12,120 it's funny because I myself, when I started to learn 33 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,719 about this, realize that I also remembered things in the 34 00:02:14,719 --> 00:02:17,960 way that the Mandela effect remembered them. That is, I 35 00:02:18,159 --> 00:02:21,199 had Bensteinbar's books when I was young, and I always 36 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,560 thought that it was written ei N. I always you know, 37 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,759 if you ask me, is there a cornucopia in the 38 00:02:26,759 --> 00:02:28,680 Fruit of the Loom logo, I would have told you yes. 39 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,479 And the same with the monopoly Man. Now what's interesting 40 00:02:32,599 --> 00:02:36,520 is that, there, of course, have been the wildest theories 41 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,520 about the Mandela effect, you know, one of which is 42 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,159 the idea of a glitch and the matrix, the idea 43 00:02:43,199 --> 00:02:46,120 that we live in a simulation, and that there's mistakes 44 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,800 in the simulation, and for that reason things change and 45 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,280 you don't realize, and then somehow what people remember and 46 00:02:53,319 --> 00:02:57,280 the actual reality of the world are not the same. 47 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 3: You know. 48 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,759 Speaker 1: People talk about how, you know, maybe it's time traveling, 49 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,680 some kind of time travel thing that changed the past 50 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,199 or something like that, and you know, some kind of 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,680 wild science fiction like explanation for it. But you know, 52 00:03:11,759 --> 00:03:14,879 of course, psychologists explain this in the more reasonable manner, 53 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,240 which is that the way that we remember things, the 54 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,680 manner by which we tend to remember, is a kind 55 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,400 of compression agent. You know, our mind likes to remember 56 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,479 things in a certain way, things that make more sense, 57 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:33,599 in a kind of narrative fashion, a way that is 58 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,639 easier to remember, and also gets fused with other memories together, 59 00:03:39,159 --> 00:03:43,080 including for example, people commenting on it, people parrotying it later. 60 00:03:43,479 --> 00:03:47,400 You know. So the famous example, of course of Darth Vader, 61 00:03:47,479 --> 00:03:49,360 who in the Empire strikes back. 62 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 2: We remember him saying Luke, I am your father. 63 00:03:52,199 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: When in fact he doesn't say that, he says, no, 64 00:03:54,599 --> 00:03:57,719 I am your father. Now, what the psychologist will say 65 00:03:57,759 --> 00:04:00,280 is that, you know, the there's a contraction you know, 66 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:02,479 you remember Luke, I am your father, rather than no, 67 00:04:02,719 --> 00:04:04,840 I am your father, because no I am your father. 68 00:04:04,879 --> 00:04:07,960 If you isolate it, it doesn't hold. It doesn't have 69 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,199 the narrative strength of saying the name of the person, 70 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,199 because the no makes it a little segment in a conversation, 71 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,480 whereas when you say, Luke, I am your father, then 72 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,319 all of a sudden it has a kind of completeness 73 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,759 to it that makes it easier to remember, you know. 74 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,040 And the same for all the other ones. For example, 75 00:04:25,079 --> 00:04:27,800 if you think of the monopoly man, the monopoly man 76 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,920 having a monocle just conforms to ideas of a kind 77 00:04:31,959 --> 00:04:36,720 of nineteenth century fop, you know, elite rich man. For example, 78 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,600 the Planter's peanut logo has a monocle and it also 79 00:04:39,639 --> 00:04:41,480 has a top hat and a cane in a similar 80 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,879 way as the monopoly man. And so these these images 81 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,759 get fused, and then when you recall something, they kind 82 00:04:48,759 --> 00:04:52,759 of get fused together. Now, of course, I think this 83 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,560 is a much better explanation, But what's missing in the 84 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,040 psychologics explanation is of course what we could call the 85 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,839 symbolic Take the symbolic approach, and this is the one 86 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,040 that I want to kind of delve into with you 87 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:06,759 right now. 88 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 3: Greeting's friends, cosmographers, fellow symbolists. This is Joshua from Eighth 89 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,839 Day Books, inviting you to join me and studying a 90 00:05:15,879 --> 00:05:20,920 remarkable cosmic coincidence. Why is it that writers, philosophers, and 91 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,040 prophets from many times and places have all told us 92 00:05:25,399 --> 00:05:29,839 that contemplating the night sky makes our own souls similarly 93 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:34,560 more beautiful and more ordered. Hebrew and Hindu, Greek and Chinese. 94 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,920 They've all told us that looking up is the same 95 00:05:39,319 --> 00:05:42,360 as looking in, and that we are as much citizens 96 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,000 of the sky as we are of earth. In February, 97 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,959 we will be looking at Pythagorean folk tales, biblical wisdom, literature, 98 00:05:51,399 --> 00:05:55,519 and contemporary novelists to ask these questions. It'll be a 99 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,279 challenging course, but not technical. I teach medieval philosophy and 100 00:06:00,319 --> 00:06:04,000 Renaissance literature, and I'm condensing a year's worth of information 101 00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:08,360 into a few wonderfilled hours. Please join me for some Plato, 102 00:06:08,519 --> 00:06:12,439 some poetry, and some practical skygazing, all to help us 103 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,839 pursue the art of imitating Heaven. See you very soon. 104 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: I have talked about this several times, which is the 105 00:06:30,519 --> 00:06:33,879 way that legends accumulate around characters, the way that legends 106 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:39,040 accumulate around important characters, and how the way we remember 107 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,279 things tends to snap to the pattern is the way 108 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,480 that I talk about it, which is that one of 109 00:06:45,519 --> 00:06:49,000 the things that psychologists don't necessarily dive into is why 110 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,759 is it that certain images are easier to remember? Why 111 00:06:52,959 --> 00:06:55,720 is it that certain images will be the ones that 112 00:06:56,079 --> 00:07:00,959 we tend to move towards. How is it that the 113 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:06,839 specific element of something gets connected to a bigger image 114 00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:10,959 that contains their the lower elements. And so, for example, 115 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,000 if you think of the you know, the the image 116 00:07:14,079 --> 00:07:18,759 or the kind of image of a nineteenth century elite man. 117 00:07:19,279 --> 00:07:21,839 You know, this is a mythological image in our culture. 118 00:07:21,879 --> 00:07:24,120 It's kind of like a like a cowboy, you know, 119 00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:28,959 is a mythological image in our culture. And there are others, 120 00:07:29,399 --> 00:07:31,639 you know, let's say a gangster would be another one. 121 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,480 There are many contemporary mythological figures. And the way that 122 00:07:36,519 --> 00:07:39,199 we come to these figures is of course through you know, 123 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:44,360 there are instantiations of it, and so you have different instantiations. 124 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,519 Speaker 2: Of cowboy, and then our mind. 125 00:07:45,519 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: What it does is that it snaps it to a 126 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,319 common pattern and then what will happen is, of course 127 00:07:51,319 --> 00:07:55,279 there'll be caricatures of that, so you'll have movie versions, 128 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,759 comic book versions. For example, when I grew up, there 129 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,160 was a famous cow boy called Lucky Luke, and he 130 00:08:02,279 --> 00:08:05,519 was it's a Belgian comic book. It was there was 131 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,160 some traction for it in the United States, what is 132 00:08:08,199 --> 00:08:12,040 mostly popular in Canada and in Europe, and Lucky Luke 133 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,759 was everything A cowboy was like everything that you can imagine. 134 00:08:14,759 --> 00:08:17,279 A cowboy is like close to his horse, really good 135 00:08:17,319 --> 00:08:20,199 at the shooter, he's got the hat, and you know 136 00:08:20,399 --> 00:08:22,519 everything about it. He was almost like a like a 137 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,240 kind of compressed version. But what happens is, of course, 138 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,759 when these compressed versions come out, because they snap so 139 00:08:28,839 --> 00:08:32,120 well to the pattern, they will infect you could say, 140 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,120 what's not In fact, they will affect the way that 141 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:38,559 we remember what cowboy is. It forms a kind of 142 00:08:39,759 --> 00:08:45,519 you know, mythological core. And that is the way that 143 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,279 symbolism functions, is the way that memory functions. If you 144 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,039 think of how it is that a fairy tale becomes 145 00:08:51,039 --> 00:08:54,360 a fairytale over you know, hundreds and hundreds of years, 146 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,639 it's that process is the process by which when we 147 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,440 remember things or we stories, we tend to want to 148 00:09:02,519 --> 00:09:06,519 snap them to a more encompassing or a it's a 149 00:09:06,639 --> 00:09:11,879 more mythologically accurate story. There is a kind of satisfaction 150 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,000 that we search for when we remember things, and some 151 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:21,799 things are not They don't have that nugget that will 152 00:09:21,799 --> 00:09:25,080 make it memorable. And so if you do that over 153 00:09:25,159 --> 00:09:29,120 iterations and iterations, you can imagine why stories would become 154 00:09:29,159 --> 00:09:32,679 more and more mythological with time. How the way to 155 00:09:32,799 --> 00:09:37,039 remember something, and it's very practical. The mistake that we 156 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,440 make when we think of the Mandela effect is that 157 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,200 in some ways we maybe see it as something that 158 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,879 is a problem or something that is a kind of 159 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,039 weakness of the human psyche. But if you take it 160 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,559 from a symbolic perspective, it's actually the very opposite. This is, 161 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,879 in some ways the strength of human psyche is to 162 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,799 remember patterns and to want to stick things to the pattern, 163 00:10:01,159 --> 00:10:03,480 so that you have this sense that the world is 164 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:08,279 meaningful and that the world has has coherence. The truth 165 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,200 is that if you go into the details of any 166 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,879 image you know that is memorable, you'll find that there 167 00:10:14,879 --> 00:10:18,720 are differences in everyone. This might sound ridiculous, but it's 168 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,159 like if you print to two versions of the fruit 169 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,919 of the loom logo, there will be differences between the 170 00:10:24,919 --> 00:10:27,480 fruit of one and the other, right one, maybe the 171 00:10:27,519 --> 00:10:29,440 color might be a little off the other one. The 172 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,039 color might be a little more saturated, you know, maybe 173 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,600 the line is not as thick. And there are different 174 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,919 versions because designers will create different ones. And so if 175 00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:40,039 you look at every single Fruit of the Loom logo 176 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,960 that's ever existed, you'll see that it's changed. Maybe they've 177 00:10:43,039 --> 00:10:45,759 changed some of the fruits, maybe they've adapted a few things, 178 00:10:45,759 --> 00:10:48,399 made it simpler, more complex, whatever, you know. But we 179 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,200 just remember the logo and that is completely normal. And 180 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,200 you know that that's completely normal. So you couldn't function 181 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,440 in the world because you wouldn't be able to see. 182 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,039 You wouldn't be able to see that things are the same. 183 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,360 You would have one glass on another glass and you say, well, 184 00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:03,360 this glass is different from this one, and you wouldn't 185 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,559 be able to notice that they're the same. Class So 186 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,639 the process by which we are able to fuse things 187 00:11:09,639 --> 00:11:13,240 together in higher patterns is a completely natural thing to 188 00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:16,360 do and something that we do all the time. And 189 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:19,360 the fact that someone is shocked because they look at 190 00:11:19,399 --> 00:11:21,480 the fruit of the loom logo, and they realized that 191 00:11:21,519 --> 00:11:26,159 they remembered it with a cornucopia. Realize that you do 192 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,559 this all the time at more minute levels. It's just 193 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,120 that now it's kind of happening at a level that 194 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,840 I can easily point to you. In most people, because 195 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,519 of their level of attention, are able to differentiate the logos. 196 00:11:38,639 --> 00:11:42,600 You know, when I was young, I studied stamp collecting 197 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,600 with my uncle, who is like he was like a 198 00:11:45,639 --> 00:11:51,039 world class stamp collector. And my uncle, what he was 199 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,279 trying to help me do was to notice the most 200 00:11:55,320 --> 00:12:00,480 minute differences between stamps, and so we were learning colors 201 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,519 that we're so subtle that most people can't see the 202 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,200 difference between them, but they do exist. If you move 203 00:12:07,399 --> 00:12:10,799 down into levels of attention that are more precise, and 204 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,279 you're able to notice difference at very very subtle levels, 205 00:12:14,279 --> 00:12:17,000 if you train yourself to do that. But imagine that 206 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,639 this process by which we're able to either distinguish or 207 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,799 not distinguish difference happens at every single level of reality. 208 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,679 And so your mind says, the fruit of the loom 209 00:12:27,759 --> 00:12:31,519 let logo is in the same category as the cornucopia, 210 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,519 and therefore joins it together. So that you see it 211 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,320 as the same, in the same way that you can 212 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,159 look at two stamps and you see them as the same. 213 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,879 But an expert at stamp collecting is able to make 214 00:12:42,919 --> 00:12:45,879 the minute differences. Okay, So this is something that is 215 00:12:45,919 --> 00:12:49,720 actually very useful for the human person to do, and 216 00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:54,559 it's something that we shouldn't think that it's a necessarily 217 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,480 a mistake. It can be a mistake when it causes problems. 218 00:12:59,759 --> 00:13:02,320 You know, the way that we remember things and the 219 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,919 way that we that say carry them forward is always 220 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,200 based on purpose. And so you know, if if there 221 00:13:10,279 --> 00:13:13,879 was some reason in your life to differentiate the fruit 222 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:17,799 of the loom logo from a cornucopia, then that would 223 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,240 be useful for you to be able to tell the difference. 224 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,840 You know. And it's the same like if you if 225 00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:27,399 you for some reason had to differentiate the the monopoly 226 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,759 man from the planters a logo, then that, you know, 227 00:13:30,799 --> 00:13:32,799 then you would be able to tell the difference. And 228 00:13:32,879 --> 00:13:35,240 if you point to it, then people will see the difference. 229 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,519 But until you point to it and you say, look 230 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,399 at this, at how different it is, your mind does 231 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,720 what it does and will connect things together in patterns 232 00:13:44,159 --> 00:13:49,039 in in a way that is more related to a 233 00:13:49,159 --> 00:13:52,399 kind of coherence of the world and maintaining a coherence 234 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:53,639 of the world. And so. 235 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,159 Speaker 2: You know what's. 236 00:13:56,399 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: Fascinating about that is when people talk about out you know, 237 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,559 this idea that this would be an kind of proof 238 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:11,799 for simulation theory. You know, simulation theory is really a 239 00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:16,240 large mistake. You know, the reason why it's a mistake 240 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:21,639 is that there is no baseline reality that doesn't mean anything. 241 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,639 The idea that there would be some kind of baseline 242 00:14:24,679 --> 00:14:29,360 reality that doesn't have layers of representation on top of 243 00:14:29,399 --> 00:14:34,360 them is ridiculous. That doesn't exist. All levels of reality 244 00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:39,399 that we can encounter through consciousness have layers of representation 245 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:42,080 in the sense that they have a need for analogy 246 00:14:42,519 --> 00:14:47,120 and of connecting things together and create and functioning in patterns. 247 00:14:47,399 --> 00:14:52,279 And therefore the way that people of course perceive certain 248 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,080 things that would lead them to believing in this idea 249 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,240 of levels of simulation, they're usually just the way that 250 00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:03,000 consciousness can functions, and they're usually related to just how language, 251 00:15:03,919 --> 00:15:08,159 you know, condenses and how patterns of image making condenses 252 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:13,080 reality together towards patterns. You don't have to imagine a 253 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,720 science fiction like like huge science fiction version of like 254 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,720 aliens that created a simulation. Uh, and we are you know, 255 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:26,600 we live inside simulation, and that maybe there are different 256 00:15:26,679 --> 00:15:29,039 like there are levels and levels of simulations. 257 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,919 Speaker 2: What that type of theory is pointing to. 258 00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: Is actually the layers and layers of pattern making that. 259 00:15:37,879 --> 00:15:38,879 Speaker 2: That exists in the world. 260 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: Now, whether or not we live in some kind of simulation, 261 00:15:42,799 --> 00:15:44,600 it's kind of like in the matrix, it doesn't really 262 00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:47,559 matter like that, whether or not there would have been 263 00:15:47,639 --> 00:15:51,519 some alien race in the past that have created a 264 00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:56,600 simulation in which we live, some very very powerful technological Uh. 265 00:15:57,159 --> 00:16:01,120 These kinds of questions are are so useless, you know, 266 00:16:01,159 --> 00:16:03,320 and they don't really help you navigate the world. They 267 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,159 don't help you kind of live in the world. But 268 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,159 if you kind of understand rather, you know, this idea 269 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,600 of a kind of levels of representation and levels of 270 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:18,519 contraction that exists in the world, symbolic contractions, then it's 271 00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:20,639 much more useful. 272 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,159 Speaker 2: Than the simulation theory. 273 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: So, you know, a good way of thinking about this 274 00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:29,519 is to kind of think of this idea of the 275 00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:35,000 hero's journey, you know, the famous Joseph Campbell schema for 276 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,039 a story where the hero leaves his home and then 277 00:16:38,159 --> 00:16:40,799 goes out on an adventure and then returns to his home. 278 00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:45,519 That image of you know, I tried to tend to 279 00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:48,840 contract it even more. Which it's just procession and return. 280 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,240 That is, All stories are procession and return. All stories 281 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,080 are leaving a certain state, moving into a state of 282 00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:03,639 or being challenged, or moving into a state of confusion 283 00:17:03,799 --> 00:17:08,039 or uncertainty where the place where you were gets undone 284 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,680 and then then something new or some new state is 285 00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:17,559 brought about. Now every story has that pattern, like every 286 00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:21,880 single one everything, not only every single story, every single sentence, 287 00:17:22,279 --> 00:17:26,079 every single breath that you take. You know, it's basically 288 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,480 like the structure of reality. It's a metaphysical structure of 289 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,279 moving from the one into the many, and then from 290 00:17:32,319 --> 00:17:35,480 the many into the one. It's a it's it's a cosmic, 291 00:17:35,519 --> 00:17:40,440 cosmic principle. And so the thing is that every single 292 00:17:40,519 --> 00:17:43,839 thing is a version of that, and everything, every single 293 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,200 thing will tend to click towards that. And then there 294 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,880 are instantiations of different levels of that and different types 295 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,000 of that, different versions of that at at lower levels 296 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:59,640 of representation as we look at the world, and those versions, 297 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,359 like the different types of instantiations of that are usually 298 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:09,039 related to particular circumstances, related to particular purposes, and that 299 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,519 is that is completely fine, but it's also okay to 300 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,279 kind of see all of these as a version of 301 00:18:16,319 --> 00:18:18,880 the higher one. And so, now, what does this have 302 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,880 to do with the Mandel effect. Now, it's the same. 303 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,880 So the way in which for example, ancient cultures came 304 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,200 to the image of the cornucopia, you know, very intuitively, 305 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,839 is kind of like the way that ancient people came 306 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,960 to the image of fairy tales. That is, there's a 307 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,720 there's a kind of snapping to a pattern. There's something 308 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,079 about the relationship, and it's intuitive. We don't totally can 309 00:18:42,279 --> 00:18:46,039 even know maybe know rationally what it is. There's something 310 00:18:46,079 --> 00:18:49,279 about the idea of a horn and fruit that are 311 00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:52,960 coming out of that horn that is related to the 312 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,680 point of the horn right moving opening up into many 313 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,680 and the seed, you know, becoming the fruit, the one 314 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,400 becoming the many. There's a kind of very powerful ontological 315 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,039 pattern that the cornucopia captured right from there to there. 316 00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:14,440 And so then if you create underwear, especially underwear for boys, 317 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,480 that is related to this image of fruit of the loom, 318 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,359 you know, fruit of the fruit of the body, you 319 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,799 could say that is bringing about an image of fertility, 320 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,000 an image of how the seed becomes the fruit and 321 00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:35,160 you wear it around your waists. There's a kind of 322 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,400 very deep fertility image in terms of what fruit of 323 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,400 the loom means. All of that comes together and then 324 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,480 will connect the logo of the company to the mythological image. 325 00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:50,559 And it's completely normal that you connect it to the 326 00:19:50,599 --> 00:19:55,000 mythological image because the mythological image the weight was arrived at, 327 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,240 was through this kind of you know, this ontological pruning. 328 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,400 That is, we don't even know how the story how 329 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,599 that image came about, but after centuries of it kind 330 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,160 of refining itself and. 331 00:20:07,079 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 2: Existing in in the in. 332 00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:15,039 Speaker 1: Our society, it has a very very deep mythological undertone. 333 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:15,279 Speaker 2: Right. 334 00:20:15,319 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: It captures the reality of the relationship between one and many, 335 00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:25,920 between seed and fruit, between you know, fertility and children, 336 00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:32,839 and then ultimately in underwear obviously, between the relationship between 337 00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:36,960 underwear and reproduction, fertility and all that. And it does 338 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,519 it in a way obviously that's not gross or that 339 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:44,759 isn't you know, that's that's not explicitly sexual, but has 340 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,079 all of that kind of contain So it's not surprising 341 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,680 that when you engage with this type of imagery that 342 00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:55,920 you would you know, that you would end up connecting 343 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,799 with the mythological version of what it is that you're 344 00:20:59,839 --> 00:21:03,160 in stantiating, you know. And sometimes obviously it's not as 345 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,519 it is not as deep as the cornucopia. For example, 346 00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:10,720 in the Berensteinberr's it's like, we've seen all the names 347 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,599 that end in in' written E I N all our life, 348 00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:17,599 and I've never in my life seen a name that 349 00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:21,160 ends a I N. And therefore, if I'm going to 350 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,759 remember that, then I'm going to snap it to the 351 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,039 pattern more, you know, more easily. And it's the same 352 00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:30,200 with some of the more kind of gross versions of 353 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:34,720 the of the Mandela effect. But some of them, like 354 00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:36,880 I said, the Fruit of the Loom one for example, 355 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,240 have actually a very kind of deep mythological aspect to them, 356 00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:45,000 and that are showing you the way in which you know, 357 00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:48,160 we remember things and how first of all it's not arbitrary, 358 00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:51,640 and second of all it's towards purposes. And third of all, 359 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,200 they're at the top of the memory chain, you know, 360 00:21:55,799 --> 00:22:00,839 is something that is universal and is kind of intuiting 361 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:01,920 the deep. 362 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,039 Speaker 2: Ontological structure of the world, and so hopefully this was 363 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,599 useful on a thought about the Mandel effect. 364 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,519 Speaker 1: Maybe you can share this video with the people that 365 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:14,559 go into alternative versions of history, that love to think about, 366 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,880 that love to talk about the fact of living in 367 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,319 a simulation, and hopefully people can see that. 368 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 2: You know, although maybe we live in a simulation, I 369 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,119 don't know. It doesn't really matter to me. 370 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: It's more useful to kind of understand these layers of 371 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,000 representation as being part of how it is that human 372 00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,960 consciousness functions in the world. How remember how we form 373 00:22:34,039 --> 00:22:37,000 language and how we form images. So thanks everybody for 374 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:39,480 your attention and I'll talk to you very soon. 375 00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 2: Byebye. 376 00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: If you enjoy these videos and podcasts, please go to 377 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,880 the Symbolic World dot com website and see how you 378 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,079 can support what we're doing. 379 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 2: There are multiple subscriber tiers with perks. 380 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: There are apparel in books to purchase, So go to 381 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,240 the Symbolic World dot com and thank you for your support.