WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:35.960 Weird Being Way Media. 2 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:47.320 Hello and welcome to the Film Youmentaries podcast. This is 3 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:50.079 Jamie Benning, your host. I'm going to cut to the 4 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:52.479 chase here. I'm a bit jet lagged, just got back 5 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:56.200 from a job in Las Vegas. Not as glamorous as 6 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:59.920 it sounds. Vegas isn't great, honestly, so in this episode, 7 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.159 I'm chatting with model maker Jim Davidson, whose career spans 8 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:05.480 some of the most iconic practical effects work in the 9 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:09.439 late twentieth century, from Terminator to and Batman Returns through 10 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:12.959 to Titanic and beyond. Jim was right there in the 11 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:15.400 thick of it, working with the Scotach Brothers during what 12 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:18.760 was arguably the peak and the turning point of large 13 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:22.599 scale miniature effects. We get into his early fascination with dinosaurs, 14 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:25.799 discovering the work of Ray Harry Housen, and that moment 15 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:27.719 of seeing Star Wars when he was twelve years old 16 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.359 that made him realize that maybe this could actually be 17 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.120 a career for him. From there, it's a brilliant story 18 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:37.959 of chance, meetings, graft and as usual, being exactly in 19 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:40.319 the right place at the right time. We also talk 20 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:42.319 about the nuts and bolts of the work, including the 21 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:47.400 unforgettable nuclear Nightmare sequence in terminated too. How those miniatures 22 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:50.120 were built, destroyed, and reset, and when it was like 23 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:52.959 working in a small, tight knit crew where everybody knew 24 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:55.879 their role. And then there's the shift, the arrival of 25 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:59.079 CGI and what felt like watching the industry change almost 26 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:02.959 overnight after Park and Jim's very personal decision not to 27 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:06.920 follow that path. It's a really honest, thoughtful conversation about 28 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:09.400 craft timing and what it means to have lived through 29 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:11.879 that golden era of practical effects. If you enjoy what 30 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:14.000 I do here as usual, I want to support it. 31 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:16.520 You can head over to patreon dot com forward slash 32 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:19.759 Jamie Benning. I'm still aiming for two hundred patrons this year, 33 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:23.039 so if you fancy chipping in, that would be hugely appreciated. 34 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:25.479 So here's my interview with Jim Davidson and I'll be 35 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:46.120 back at the end for a bit more jabbering on. So, Jim, 36 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:49.360 what was your childhood like? Did you find yourself kind 37 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.439 of building models as a kid and were you practically minded? 38 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:54.520 Did your parents have that kind of mindset as well? 39 00:02:56.599 --> 00:03:00.439 No, my parents didn't, but I grew up I was 40 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:04.280 a TV kid. I grew up throughout the nineteen seventies, 41 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:08.280 born in sixty five, but my childhood and was throughout 42 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:14.919 the seventies and yeah, growing up with TV at that 43 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:20.039 time period. And my first love as a kid was dinosaurs. 44 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.560 Of course when I was like, you know, four years 45 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:26.560 but by the time I was three, I was into dinosaurs. 46 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:32.240 And then as a kid growing up on TV, anything 47 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:36.199 anything that had any dinosaurs in it related to it, 48 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:38.400 I was I'd be glued to the set and then 49 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:39.280 that evolved. 50 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:43.360 I wonder what it is, sorry to interrupt that, just no, 51 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:47.080 it is about dinosaurs, because is it something to do 52 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:52.159 with kind of beginning to understand scale? I wonder because 53 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:54.360 you know, Phil Tip it was into that was his 54 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:56.680 first love. One of my first things dinosaurs. 55 00:03:56.879 --> 00:04:01.759 It's like dinosaurs are the are the introduction of the 56 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:05.439 concept of of of monsters. I think. I think it's 57 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:09.759 a kid's first actual like like what a monster would 58 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.000 when you hear the term monster, and you know, because 59 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:16.560 the growing up on the Monster movies too as a kid, 60 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:21.079 that didn't come until you know, later on, but you know, 61 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:24.319 it was all about the science. I don't know if 62 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:29.319 dinosaurs were on an upswing in the seventies or but 63 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:31.759 I just remember there was so much of it on TV, 64 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.759 you know, the movie of you know, the fifties, sixties 65 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:39.639 and and that were all the fantasy films relating to 66 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:43.000 dinosaurs and stuff. And it was just that type of 67 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:48.199 thing that I gravitated towards as a kid, which was 68 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:52.279 my first like real fascination. Uh. And then the and 69 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:54.720 then the you know, in bookstores. I always I grew 70 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:59.480 up on books, and just seeing dinosaur books as a 71 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:02.480 kid just fascinated me. The dinosaur just looking at them, 72 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:05.120 the way they looked. They just looked alien, you know, 73 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:09.040 they just looked like these are huge monsters, but they 74 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.279 were actually here. And that was the fascination as a 75 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:16.439 little kid. And then that of course evolved into the 76 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.800 other interests that followed with that type of fascination of 77 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:24.319 creatures and monsters and fantasy, and you know, because they 78 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.839 seemed like such fantasy, you know, and fantasy. I was 79 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:29.279 drawn the fantasy always. 80 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:33.959 Yeah, did you ever have like model kids then when 81 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:37.399 you were a kid, were you the stuff? 82 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:42.800 And the For me in my childhood, it was Monogram 83 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.319 and Ravel were the two big Oh and of course 84 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.560 the Aurora, my first Model Kids were the Aurora dinosaur 85 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:55.959 kids go figure. They came out nearly seventies. They were 86 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.959 the square box once, not the long box Auroras. But 87 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:03.720 oh yeah, model kids were uh one of the first 88 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:07.079 avenues ventured down that. You know, how can I get 89 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:11.120 involved in dinosaurs or you know that kind of thing? 90 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.759 So yeah, oh yeah, it evolved to model kits and 91 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:18.439 discovering model building and the love of that. And as 92 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:22.959 a child, it was I was always into making stuff, 93 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:30.040 and I was very uh uh always into art. I 94 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.000 was always into drawing. I was That was the first 95 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.959 thing I ever got into, you know, creatively, was drawing 96 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:39.240 as a kid, drawing out of my you know, drawing 97 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:41.839 dinosaurs and then drawing out of comic books and that 98 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:44.600 kind of stuff, and you know, just but that's how 99 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.680 that's how the my creative process started, was withdrawing. 100 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:52.040 Yeah, so how do we leap from a kid who 101 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:55.160 likes to draw and build dinosaur models to ending up 102 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:56.560 in the movie industry? 103 00:06:57.399 --> 00:07:00.560 Oh? Man, that's a there's a lot that happened there. 104 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:04.519 Yeah, did you understand that there was such a thing 105 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:07.319 as a job of working in the industry? Like, when 106 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:08.959 did that happen for you? Was that teenagers. 107 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:15.439 Now, the my obsession with special effects, just the art 108 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:19.240 of special effects for whether it be TV or movies, 109 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:28.720 just cinematic visual effects. That fascination started with of course 110 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:34.120 Ray Harryhausen for me, Yeah, and it was his stop 111 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:41.279 motion that I was That was the obsession that that's 112 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:46.879 what ignited, you know, my love from that point on. 113 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:52.720 My love of visual effects just began there. And and 114 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:58.519 so the Harry Housen discovery after finding out the first 115 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:01.439 thing I ever saw was one million years BC. That 116 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:04.199 I is where I fell in love with visual effects. 117 00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:09.720 When I saw raised dinosaur stuff, that just it just 118 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:12.800 it literally became an obsession with me. I had to 119 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:15.439 find out how that was done, and I wanted to 120 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.480 do that. I wanted to learn to do that. To me, 121 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:20.360 that was the coolest thing I had ever seen in 122 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:22.519 my life, you know, up to that point of being 123 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:25.439 you know, like eight years old. And of course, in 124 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:28.519 finding out who this guy was through you know, searching 125 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:32.440 in books and magazines at the time, I found out 126 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:34.919 his name. All right, so there's one guy that does 127 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:40.399 this stuff. And then at that age I was thinking, 128 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:44.080 is this something that anyone can get into? Is this 129 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:48.480 could this be like an actual job for you know, 130 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:52.120 for someone, or is this just a guy that you 131 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:55.360 know was in the studio working and just yeah, we 132 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:57.840 need this magic to happen. Did anybody in here know 133 00:08:57.840 --> 00:08:59.159 how to do that kind of stuff? And one guy 134 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:01.720 in the back, oh, yeah, okay, you're hired. You know, 135 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:05.320 I didn't know how that went. You know, how did 136 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:07.600 they find this guy? Where did this guy come from? 137 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:09.799 How do you learn to do something like this has 138 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:13.399 come out of nowhere and create magic like this that inspired, 139 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:16.519 you know, a kid like me, And I knew there 140 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:19.200 were others kids because all my other friends, my childhood 141 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.519 friend would see these movies and they were enamored by it, 142 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:27.320 but not to the level that I was. So that 143 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:31.000 became an obsession just in learning about visual effects at 144 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.960 that point. But at no point did it ever seemed 145 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:41.960 like a viable job or an industry until I turned 146 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:45.879 twelve years old and I saw Star Wars for the 147 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:53.679 first time. And you know, seeing Star Wars when it 148 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:59.840 opened as a twelve year old, that was Ray Harryhausen's 149 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:03.720 star you know, King Kong was Ray Harryhouse and Star Wars, 150 00:10:04.039 --> 00:10:08.240 So I understood how that how seeing something like that 151 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:13.480 could impress you. You know, I'm digressing on that, but 152 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.519 sometimes I'll ramble on. You can cut this part out, 153 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:24.960 Oh good, good, but but stay back on track. Yeah, 154 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:25.799 kind of. 155 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:30.840 Like being a twelve year old, because that film kind 156 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.360 of dropped out of you know. 157 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:41.679 I that's something that that I wish I could convey 158 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:47.600 to someone that will never experience that. You know, I'll 159 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:50.799 never I'll never forget it. I'll never forget the and 160 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:56.639 the you know, packed theater and hearing the entire audience 161 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:03.679 simultaneously respond verbally and throughout the whole movie and cheering 162 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:07.919 at appropriate times, booing the I mean it was like 163 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:11.559 you were watching it was like a vaudeville theater, you know, 164 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:14.919 seeing a live performance and you're booing and hissing and 165 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:19.840 cheering out loud. You know that you just don't get 166 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:23.679 that anymore in theaters. And it was just, Yeah, it 167 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:26.879 was a magical experience see in that movie, in that 168 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:33.720 kind of you know, public uh arena that just you 169 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:36.799 just can't Yeah. I wish I could. 170 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:39.120 I wish the ball it up and sell it. 171 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:41.559 I wish they I wish they'd real I heard that 172 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:44.279 they're gonna might be re releasing Get in theaters for 173 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:48.480 its anniversary next year. I heard that, and boy if 174 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:52.200 they do, and I hope it's the original you know, 175 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:55.000 seventy seven release and not the not the. 176 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.000 I believe it is is. 177 00:11:58.840 --> 00:11:59.679 Yeah, well that's. 178 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:02.879 Believe is because that's what we're celebrating, right, fifty years 179 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:05.759 of that original film. And wo what I'd love to see. 180 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:09.399 A year you know, like the year that changed the world. 181 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:12.840 Yeah, I mean, and it's about so many going. 182 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.759 Oh, I'm just gonna say, think about this half of 183 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.440 my the first half of my childhood there Star Wars 184 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:25.240 didn't exist. So can you imagine childhood not know before 185 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:28.159 any knowledge of anything Star Wars? 186 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:30.759 No, Yeah, but then I was I was born in 187 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:34.039 I was born in seventy six gyms, So Star Wars 188 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:36.720 has been there all my conscious life, you know. 189 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:40.279 I had the That's what I mean, Yeah, time before. 190 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:46.879 It's that. That's why seeing that movie. People see it 191 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:49.120 today and they think, well, god, it's it's yeah, it's 192 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:51.519 a rough looking film in spots, you know, it's it's 193 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:56.080 not like a cinematic great achievement, you know, like I 194 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:59.039 mean revolutionary for the visual effects, of course, but I 195 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:02.039 mean just the story. It was just you know Flash 196 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:07.960 Gordon in Wild West, in Space, you know, Rescue the Princess, 197 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:11.279 Damsel in Distress, you know, Say Young the Young Adventure. 198 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:14.639 You know, it's its age old story. It was nothing 199 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:18.039 new story wise. What made that film so, what made 200 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.759 that film so revolutionary at the time was the aesthetic 201 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:25.519 quality was unlike anything ever seen before it and visually 202 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:31.120 in a movie. And that included the art direction, It 203 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:35.480 included the costumes, you know, the whole aesthetic look of 204 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:39.360 the entire film. The fact that the fact that everything 205 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:43.559 was dirty and greasy and oily and dark and like 206 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:47.639 it wasn't gleamy, shiny, reflective, No, it was the opposite. 207 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:50.879 And it was just something so unique. It was just 208 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:56.879 so unique beyond anything that looking looking aesthetically and that's 209 00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:59.120 what made it so That's what made it so popular 210 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:01.039 and what made it so I'm breaking in my opinion, 211 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:03.759 was the ass of visual not the story. 212 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:08.120 Yeah, and those designs are so iconic, aren't they. Like 213 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:10.759 I can imagine you as a twelve year old coming 214 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.360 back and you can immediately have a go at drawing 215 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:16.879 the characters and the spaceships. 216 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.720 Oh oh yeah, Well again, it was all about the 217 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.720 look of everything. The look of the spaceships. Oh my god, 218 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:26.200 there were so many different kinds of kinds of just 219 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:34.120 these overwhelmingly detailed, amazingly realistic looking spaceships that you know, 220 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:36.600 just yeah, it was. And the way that they flew it, 221 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:38.120 it was. It was the way that you got to 222 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:41.120 see these ships fly for the first time. It wasn't 223 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:44.519 just you know, gliding across on a you know, on 224 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:45.720 a wire. 225 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:47.679 And yeah yeah. 226 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:50.320 Or or or just having the camera push on a 227 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:53.120 dolly against the model back and forth, like they didn't 228 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.639 Star Trek. Star Trek had motion control, but it was 229 00:14:55.720 --> 00:14:59.399 manual motion control. It was again I pushed dolly or 230 00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:06.080 or they had they had crank that they even rotated 231 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:08.080 the big Enterprise on a little a guy was down 232 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:10.120 there on a little crank crank in it during some 233 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:14.399 of the shots with it turning, you know, and so yeah, 234 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:18.440 the effects in Star Wars just made it not only 235 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.519 what the movie became and what the whole thing became. 236 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.559 But at the same time, when I left the theater 237 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:28.399 for the first time, walking out to the parking lot 238 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:33.600 back with my mom, I'll never forget that moment because 239 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:37.360 I said, I told her, said, Mom, all that stuff 240 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:40.120 you saw in that movie all the spaceships and the 241 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:42.960 aliens and all the you know, the amazing world. Everything 242 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.279 you saw in that movie. That's what I want to do. 243 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.919 I want to do that with my life. And she 244 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:51.000 was like, oh, that's a nice little thing to think. 245 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:53.759 That's good, you know, good, Yeah, that's good, and she 246 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.480 supported me from that point on, but she never really 247 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:59.519 took it seriously early on. Of course, twelve year old kid, 248 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:02.639 you know, it's like a twelve year old kids, you know, 249 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:05.960 watching his first pro baseball game of going, yeah, I'm 250 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:07.600 going to I want to be a pro athlete. You know, 251 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:08.879 I grew up okay. 252 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:11.519 Yeah, but nobody knew that there was a career possibility 253 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.919 there at that time. Really, I mean exactly those early 254 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.240 I lemmas. But for the next generation that were your 255 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.519 imagination is sparked now. I mean, what a perfect age 256 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:24.200 to see that movie and and all that stuff to come. 257 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:28.720 I was just going to say, at that point was 258 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:32.799 when because I saw the popularity of what it all 259 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:38.039 did and what was happening, and that was when I realized, Okay, 260 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.200 this is a viable industry now. And I knew at 261 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.000 the age of twelve that okay, this is this is 262 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:47.399 going to spread and it's going to get big, and 263 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.440 it's going to create an industry. And I was like, yeah, 264 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:53.360 it's given enough time. And and that's when I just 265 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:57.519 started following movies at that point. You know, it's all 266 00:16:57.559 --> 00:16:59.759 of the same kind of genre films. And then of 267 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.120 course what followed every film after that, there was like 268 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:08.440 every year there was these modernized effects laden films that 269 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:12.319 were always trying to you know, you know, keep up 270 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:16.000 with the Star Wars, keep up with ILM. And then 271 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:20.279 ILM just exploded after you know, it left for Empire 272 00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:24.279 and in the late seventies, and when that all happened, 273 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:29.759 that was when I realized, Okay, I might be able 274 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:33.920 to actually think about doing this for a career. And 275 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.559 ever since that, that was how I looked at life, 276 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:40.400 you know, getting just getting through high school. I just 277 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:43.079 I couldn't wait for school to and I just I 278 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:46.319 was like God, and it was killing me as you know, 279 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:50.480 seeing Star Wars as a twelve year old, and then 280 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:53.720 all these other great effects films that came followed, bang 281 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.200 bang bang after the other. You know, you had Battlestar 282 00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:59.160 Galactic on TV, then you had Star Trek, and then 283 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:02.440 you had aliens at all. It was just affects, Blockbuster, 284 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:04.920 Blade Runner, blah blah blah blah. On down the line, 285 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:08.519 Empire strikes back, and it just kept getting bigger and bigger. 286 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:12.359 And I was not out of high school yet, and 287 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:15.440 I'm like, God, that's killing me. I'm like, I wanted 288 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:17.359 to be up there. I wanted to you know, I 289 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:20.319 wanted to be up there now, you know. Oh, I 290 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.200 just couldn't wait for high school to end. It couldn't 291 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:22.920 end soon enough. 292 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:26.119 So and did you go to film school after that? 293 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:33.400 No? I At that time I thought that the only 294 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:37.720 you know, I was following my you know, my parents' 295 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:41.680 outlook on life at that point, and it was, well, 296 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:44.640 you got to have a college degree to do anything, 297 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:47.319 you know, to make anything of yourself, you know, you 298 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.440 got to have a college degree. M And I was 299 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.000 like and I you know, I was like yeah, but 300 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.119 but and I was always like but, you know, and 301 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.599 it's like, well, I wasn't ready to head up you know, 302 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.359 after high school right away, you know, at that point, 303 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:06.839 so I thought, okay, I'll I'll go into college, uh, 304 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:10.799 you know, and try to get my AA degree. And 305 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.720 then from there I was, oh, maybe I could, you know, 306 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:19.400 transfer to a film school, and that was the general 307 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:21.480 plan at that time. And I was just thinking, it's 308 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:23.519 taking it's going to take forever. It's taken to take 309 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:27.880 away too long. So anyway, I went in eighty four, 310 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:30.480 I went to nineteen eighty four, I went to UH 311 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:35.920 the local college here and UH in the next town over. 312 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:40.319 And the name of the local college is Palamar College 313 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:44.559 Community College, just a you know, and back then it 314 00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:48.640 was it was it's just a tiny little nuts in school, 315 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:51.599 great great school. Though they had a great I'm not 316 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:53.559 dissing the school, but it was. Yeah, it was just 317 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:57.920 a tiny, no name school, community college. But when I 318 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:03.559 went there, that's where I met at my inn to 319 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:08.559 the industry, right. It was through a guy that I 320 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.799 was one of the first classes I took. I was 321 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:15.119 taking a full load, but I also put in, ah 322 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:19.200 just I was taking a sculpture one oh one class, 323 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:22.039 just to like be able to do some art at school. 324 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.680 So I took a sculpture the sculpture class, uh. And 325 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:31.759 first day walking to the class and I met this 326 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:38.039 guy named Robert Stromberg. And I don't know if you've 327 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:44.119 heard of him, but he's now an Oscar winning art director. Yeah, 328 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:50.759 known for Avatar and all that. And so he was 329 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:54.200 in my class that day and he had and he 330 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.000 was talking to this other kid at the time before 331 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:57.799 the class started, and he had he had brought some 332 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:02.200 photos and pictures of some like paintings that he was doing. 333 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.400 He was one to work on his sculpture stuff, but 334 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:06.440 he brought some paintings that he wanted to show the 335 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.559 tea shirt and so he shows me. I walked over 336 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:13.079 and we introduced each other. He should what'd you bring 337 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:15.279 and shows me his artwork and I was like, Wow, 338 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.160 this guy's got some great painting, doing some wild stuff. 339 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:20.279 And then that's when he told me, yeah, I want 340 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:22.000 to get into matt painting. I want to be a 341 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.319 mad artist. And I immediately knew what that was and 342 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:27.880 I was like, are you kidding me? And he goes, yeah, 343 00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:30.599 you know what that is, and I go yeah, the 344 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.559 special effects with the painting on glass, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 345 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:38.480 And right there we clicked. And he had also had 346 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.720 some photos with him that he brought from where his 347 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.880 dad had taken him to Ilm on a visit. And 348 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:52.119 this was during Dragon Slayer, huh, and the stuff and 349 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:55.759 Robert had brought some photos, some polaroids of him holding 350 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:59.960 the Chris Whales Vermouth thrashs puppet, Wow the hand puppet, 351 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:06.039 and other photos of the setups and stuff. And he 352 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:12.319 got to visit there because of his dad. Robert Stromberg's 353 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:19.039 dad was William Stromberg, who is known for writing and 354 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:25.200 directing the Crater Lake Monster movie from nineteen seventy seven, 355 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:31.480 which was the first gig, the professional gig that Phil 356 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:34.400 tipp had ever got to work on. Or no, I'm sorry, 357 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:38.680 he had done some work for Bill on that, but 358 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:41.839 Bill Stromberg is the guy that gave Phil Tippett his 359 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:47.519 start on a little personal project when Phil was in 360 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:52.279 high school. So Phil had an end with Bill Stromberg. 361 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.839 So that's their connection through how Robert got to go 362 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:58.599 to ILM and then I just happened to meet him 363 00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:04.440 in this art class by chance, pure insane chance, and 364 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:11.400 we immediately became friends. And about a year later Rob 365 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:18.039 went up to start working on he was helping out. 366 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:20.880 He started, he started the bottom level and he and 367 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:23.319 his dad got him in with a guy named Tony 368 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:29.319 Dublin and David Stipes, and one of Rob's first jobs 369 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:36.000 was working on that TV show V The Final Battle, Yeah, 370 00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:39.839 the second part of the V series. So anyway, Rob 371 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:43.359 went up ahead of me and I stayed back. I 372 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:46.279 went to one more year of college and then I 373 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:49.680 was working a job and carlsbad doing I was a 374 00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:56.519 fabricutter and I was like, I was twenty two at 375 00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:01.880 this time. And Robert called me up one day and said, hey, man, 376 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:07.920 I just got hired on to beat this little budget 377 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:13.400 filmmaker's art director and had all the effects for him, 378 00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:14.960 and he goes, do you want in? 379 00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:19.400 I was like, you thought about it for two seconds. 380 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:22.640 I was like, I've been waiting for this my whole life. 381 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:25.359 And so that day I quit my job that I 382 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:29.559 had and went up to LA the next day and 383 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:33.559 met Rob at the studio and started working on this 384 00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:36.759 project that the very first gig I ever worked on 385 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:41.720 was this film called Empire of the Dark and it 386 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:46.519 was made by this guy named Steve Barquette, and it 387 00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:48.920 was his the last film he ever made, and he 388 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:52.000 was only known for making two films. And the first 389 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:58.279 film that this guy made, Steve Barquette, back in the 390 00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:06.079 early eighties was with the working with Jim Danforth and 391 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:11.200 Robert Dennis Cotack doing all the effects for him. So 392 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:17.960 this guy Steve Barquette gave with his first film, he 393 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.680 gave the scow Tack brothers their start in the industry. 394 00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:26.279 That's where they got started from. And then his next 395 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:30.680 film is the film that gave me and Robert Stromberg 396 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:38.000 our first career you know thing in the industry. And 397 00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:41.680 then and I mentioned the other film first with the 398 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:48.880 Scotax because then because of that Steve Barquette, nothing film, 399 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.440 that's what would have That's what later led on to 400 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:54.720 me getting hired on with the SCO Tax for the 401 00:25:54.759 --> 00:25:57.480