Speaker 1: By Billy cunning in the Great American Joonaan you and
Speaker 1: I now is doctor Lastmi Somarco Himna County Corner and
Speaker 1: doctor Samarco. Welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show. And
Speaker 1: first of all, doctor can you tell the American people
Speaker 1: your preliminary findings and what caused the death of Ryan
Speaker 1: Hinton on May first of this year?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Willie, thanks for having me on the show. Just
Speaker 2: you know, I had the press conference to make sure
Speaker 2: that the facts were given accurately to the public. So
Speaker 2: he had a soft tissue wound to the left forearm
Speaker 2: and entrance wound and exit wound. Then he had the
Speaker 2: lethal wound was to the side left lateral which is
Speaker 2: the side of the chest, and that did deflect and
Speaker 2: injure one of the ribs and then went travel through
Speaker 2: the left ventricle and exited near the sternum.
Speaker 1: So as far as the may I use the term
Speaker 1: kill shot, can you a relative to the left armpit?
Speaker 1: How many inches below the left armpit did the bullet
Speaker 1: enter and what part of the body did it exit?
Speaker 2: It didn't, I mean, it's not interesting. So if if
Speaker 2: you were wearing a if he had been wearing a
Speaker 2: bra like a woman would, it would be bralined basically,
Speaker 2: and it exited by the sternum.
Speaker 1: Is there any indication at this point whether there were
Speaker 1: three shots fired or two that hit the body.
Speaker 2: That's a great question. What we do is describe entrance
Speaker 2: and exit wounds, and so there are actually three entrance wounds.
Speaker 2: The reason we don't make a comment about whether it's
Speaker 2: the same bullet or not is we don't know. But
Speaker 2: it is possible that the left form and left lateral
Speaker 2: chest wound could have been caused by the same bullet.
Speaker 2: That is possible.
Speaker 1: The videotape shows Ryan Hinton running, so if the arm
Speaker 1: was in the downward position and the right arm in
Speaker 1: the upward position as he was running, it's possible the
Speaker 1: bullet would have entered the forearm as he was running,
Speaker 1: and that same bullet as the one that went through
Speaker 1: the chest and exit out the startam. Is that correct? That?
Speaker 2: Yeah? The left form, Yes, that is correct. It's possible.
Speaker 1: What was that bullet recovered?
Speaker 2: No, no, there are only small pieces of it that
Speaker 2: were recovered. But no.
Speaker 1: Now, he also made the comment, at least at the
Speaker 1: news conference in the media that you received the grand
Speaker 1: jury subpoena from the Prosecutor's office. It was the first
Speaker 1: time in thirteen years that has happened. Why is that unusual?
Speaker 2: I well, I mean, you got me. I mean, this
Speaker 2: is the first time I've ever gotten one, So I
Speaker 2: don't I was unaware. In fact, I kind of asked
Speaker 2: the some of the more experienced people that had retired
Speaker 2: from that office in the past, has that ever happened
Speaker 2: in Hamilton County? And one of them, who had been
Speaker 2: there over forty years, said no. So I was not
Speaker 2: familiar with that happening and why, And so I asked
Speaker 2: that question, and like I said, I had to. I
Speaker 2: canceled it. But it was basically, in my mind, a
Speaker 2: postponement because I just needed to gather the facts and
Speaker 2: information and find out, you know, what was needed and
Speaker 2: what needed to happen. And once I got all my
Speaker 2: ducks in a row to understand what the implications were
Speaker 2: of the Grand jurisipoena, and then I and then I
Speaker 2: also found out that some of the preliminary autopsy findings
Speaker 2: were being provided in a public way, not from my office,
Speaker 2: but other offices, and I felt it was important that
Speaker 2: the public here from our office because as you know.
Speaker 2: I mean over thirteen years, I have been tried. I
Speaker 2: have tried to be as transparent as possible with the public,
Speaker 2: with the media, and also as factual as we can.
Speaker 2: And I think it's important that the media and the
Speaker 2: public here from me or somebody in my office what
Speaker 2: the findings are so that we can accurately provide that
Speaker 2: information and answer questions.
Speaker 1: There was a report from Ken Kober, who's had of
Speaker 1: the FOP that he said on this air that the
Speaker 1: anton was shot from the front and the bullets began
Speaker 1: exited from the front of his chest to the back
Speaker 1: of the chest. Is it fair to say your findings
Speaker 1: did not support that?
Speaker 2: That's correct. Our findings did not support that.
Speaker 1: Now there's a reporting also from other sides, the Cochrane
Speaker 1: Law firm. I had on mister Wright from the Cochrane
Speaker 1: Law firm. He said he was shot in the back.
Speaker 1: Did your findings find that to be inaccurate?
Speaker 2: The lethal wound was from the left side of the chest.
Speaker 1: Could the bullet have come from the back? In other words,
Speaker 1: when the officer fired that bullet?
Speaker 2: Did not No, because the entrance wound was left lateral
Speaker 2: chest and it exited near the sternum, which is the
Speaker 2: front of the chest right, So not that one.
Speaker 1: All right. So in a sense, the head of the
Speaker 1: police union may be wrong, and the Cochrane law firm
Speaker 1: may also be wrong. If one says it was a
Speaker 1: front surnam to back and the law firm says it
Speaker 1: was from the back. Both those indications, if what I
Speaker 1: said is accurate, both of them are wrong.
Speaker 2: When it comes to the lethal wound. That is correct.
Speaker 1: Now, when you mentioned your own counsel, there was some
Speaker 1: reference that your news conference ane and a half that
Speaker 1: you're getting your own counsel. I think the guy's name.
Speaker 1: I don't want to give out his name if it's
Speaker 1: a matter. But by statute, the coroner's office as lawyer
Speaker 1: is Countie Pillage, the county prosecutor. And why would you
Speaker 1: need your own counsel?
Speaker 2: I consulted somebody to give us some advice because the
Speaker 2: grand jury subpoena that was served was served by the
Speaker 2: prosecutor's office, and in discussing with the prosecutor's office the
Speaker 2: grand jury subpoena and other information that I requested, they
Speaker 2: said that I would They advised that I would need
Speaker 2: to obtain independent council because that represented a conflict of
Speaker 2: interest for the prosecutor, and.
Speaker 1: You're relying upon the advice not of the prosecutor Countie Pillage,
Speaker 1: but on this independent attorney to proceed how to proceed?
Speaker 2: Is that correct as far as the press conference was concerned.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay. At this point, has there been a second
Speaker 1: autopsy requested by the Cochrane Law firm.
Speaker 2: Yes, Actually I was aware. I was made aware about
Speaker 2: a week ago or a week and a half ago
Speaker 2: that that had already been.
Speaker 1: Performed, okay, And that's why the body was released for
Speaker 1: burial on Saturday.
Speaker 2: Well, the body was released for burial when we were done,
Speaker 2: So we don't we don't hold the body back if
Speaker 2: we're done with what we need to do. We want
Speaker 2: the family to have the option to as always with
Speaker 2: any case, as soon as we're done doing what we
Speaker 2: need to do for our portion of investigation, we release
Speaker 2: the body to the family so that they can say
Speaker 2: goodbye to their loved ones and take the appropriate measures
Speaker 2: to to make that happen. So we do that as
Speaker 2: quickly as we can for anybody. And what happens to
Speaker 2: the body once they received the body at the funeral
Speaker 2: home is up to the family, and if the family chose,
Speaker 2: along with their attorney to have a second autopsy done
Speaker 2: at that time, that's that's their choice to make.
Speaker 1: As far as this other bullet, I think there was
Speaker 1: a third gun shot, and that slug was found inside
Speaker 1: the body. Can you tell the American people the course
Speaker 1: of that third gun shot that was located beneath the
Speaker 1: base of the skull? Explain that place?
Speaker 2: So that was that travel just beneath the skin, and
Speaker 2: the entrance wound was the right poster a lateral and
Speaker 2: I you know, right poster a lateral portion of the
Speaker 2: chest and adjacent to the right shoulder, So it was
Speaker 2: in that region and it literally traveled right between the
Speaker 2: right I'm sorry, right beneath the skin, and it stayed
Speaker 2: was just beneath the skin. It didn't impact any bones
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: Uh. Can you say which of the gunshots were fired first?
Speaker 1: Because when I hear the left side like a woman's
Speaker 1: brawl strap kind of several inches below the armpits. Then
Speaker 1: I hear about this other bullet that hit the right side,
Speaker 1: that indicates to me the body was turning in some sense?
Speaker 1: Am I right about that?
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you what position I mean, I can
Speaker 2: tell you that the that the lethal wound was from
Speaker 2: the left side, so and like literally the side, not
Speaker 2: you know people say was a kind of a little
Speaker 2: bit to the fan, a little bit to the back.
Speaker 2: Note it was directly at the side of the body.
Speaker 2: So that I can tell you as far as which
Speaker 2: one was first and which one was second or third,
Speaker 2: I I couldn't tell you. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 2: which one. And I don't know if somebody can take
Speaker 2: a look at that body camera bodycam footage and tell
Speaker 2: you either, because there, I mean it is and pretty
Speaker 2: fast and it's really blurry, and I don't know about you,
Speaker 2: but I get a little motion sick, and I mean
Speaker 2: even seeing enough as that was like, oh boy, I
Speaker 2: can't watch. So, you know, I think an expert that
Speaker 2: can go frame by frame and maybe isolate some of
Speaker 2: the sound and can do that maybe able to tell.
Speaker 2: But we can't tell which one was first or second.
Speaker 1: So someone would take a laser beam from the end
Speaker 1: of the police officer's weapon and have a straight laser
Speaker 1: beam into the body of Ryan Hinton. The entry room
Speaker 1: that killed him was directly in the side, neither front
Speaker 1: nor back, below the armpit and the left side of
Speaker 1: the chest, and the other wound was in the right
Speaker 1: side of the chest. The boy came to beneath the
Speaker 1: base of the skull and stopped there. That wasn't the
Speaker 1: kill When I hear about base of the skull, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking that's like a kill shot, but you're saying it is.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. It didn't even enter the skull.
Speaker 2: It was. It was completely just beneath the skin, and
Speaker 2: it was below the skull. I was just trying to
Speaker 2: give a position of where the bullet ended up, because
Speaker 2: we did retrieve.
Speaker 1: That bullet, okay, But as far as the kill shot,
Speaker 1: it was directly in the side. What you would indicate
Speaker 1: that when Ryan Hinton was shot, the officer was to
Speaker 1: the side and not to the front of the back.
Speaker 2: That's the way the bullet traveled. It was directly to
Speaker 2: the side.
Speaker 1: Where does your investigation go from hare, Are you completely
Speaker 1: done at this point?
Speaker 2: No, we actually have a couple more lab tests that
Speaker 2: were waiting on just to be complete. And when everything
Speaker 2: is put together, everything we finalized, the death certificate will
Speaker 2: be final, death certificate will be signed and that'll be
Speaker 2: the end of that. So you know, as far as
Speaker 2: what percentage of the investigation do we have left? Probably
Speaker 2: less than ninety percent. Most of it's already been done.
Speaker 2: But we're always complete on looking for as I said
Speaker 2: in the press conference, as a service to Hamilton County
Speaker 2: residence and to the family of the victims, we're pretty
Speaker 2: thorough and looking at all the other parts of the
Speaker 2: body to see if maybe there's some sort of genetic
Speaker 2: disease or something that we need to inform them about,
Speaker 2: or if there were other medical issues that that person had.
Speaker 2: We try and be complete to give them all the information.
Speaker 1: Did you find any illegal drugs in Ryan Hinton's body?
Speaker 2: Well, that's still toxicology and that's still even though some
Speaker 2: of it's come back, not all of it's comeback.
Speaker 1: Is the part that's comeback indicating he had illegal drugs
Speaker 1: in his body.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to talk about it right now, Willie,
Speaker 2: because we still have other things pending, and I don't
Speaker 2: want to keep going back and forth on the information.
Speaker 2: Let's just wait until we get everything, okay.
Speaker 1: Can you discuss that all the gun itself? Was it
Speaker 1: in the right hand of Ryan Hinton? Do you know
Speaker 1: from any of your work whether the gun was in
Speaker 1: the right hand at the time he was shot.
Speaker 2: We don't have any of that information. We you know,
Speaker 2: as far as if you're looking for a gun chat
Speaker 2: resident and whatnot. As I explained in the press conference,
Speaker 2: just the fact that he was shot could cause him
Speaker 2: to have gunshot residue on a skin surface, So that
Speaker 2: wouldn't be a definitive indicator of whether he had a
Speaker 2: gun in his hand or not. And if you know,
Speaker 2: and I think you know this already, I mean, the
Speaker 2: presence of gunshot residue doesn't necessarily indicate whether even somebody
Speaker 2: pulled the trigger, right, I mean that there's a certain
Speaker 2: distribution if if a shooter pulls the trigger. But just
Speaker 2: the fact that there may be gunshot residue anywhere on
Speaker 2: the body or clothing doesn't necessarily mean that they pulled it.
Speaker 2: They could just be near somebody that was shooting, or
Speaker 2: you know, within a closer vicinity so that it sprays
Speaker 2: out on them. And you know, and if you're a
Speaker 2: victim that's been shot, of course there's going to be
Speaker 2: gunshot residue. So it's not a good indicator.
Speaker 1: Did you find any nitrade or gunshot resnue on the
Speaker 1: body of Ryan Hinton.
Speaker 2: That's another thing I would have to ask for our
Speaker 2: FONTS guys about or trace evidence guys, because I haven't
Speaker 2: looked into that. I was simply presenting autopsy findings.
Speaker 1: Now, how many feet was Ryan Hinton when he was
Speaker 1: hit by the kill shot from the origination of the shot?
Speaker 1: Was it five feet? Ten feet twenty?
Speaker 2: Would not be able to tell you. That would be
Speaker 2: something that I wouldn't be able to tell you. And
Speaker 2: if the pathologists can can say that, nobody asked him
Speaker 2: that question that I'm aware of, because I wasn't given
Speaker 2: that information.
Speaker 1: So as far as the right hand of Ryan Hinton,
Speaker 1: there was no indication that Ryan Hinton had far at
Speaker 1: any weapon. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I don't know what the GSR
Speaker 2: GSR results were on that, Okay?
Speaker 1: And when will you have the toxicology report complete? About?
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully we'll have most of the stuff complete by
Speaker 2: this week, would.
Speaker 1: Say within seven within seven days?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would think so. Yeah, And I still
Speaker 2: have to I'll still have to check with our Trace
Speaker 2: sevenance section as far as if we did any GSR
Speaker 2: collection and what that shows.
Speaker 1: That's its gunshot RESIDU is GSR correct. Yeah, yeah, we
Speaker 1: doctor Simarco, thank you. I have I not asked you
Speaker 1: a question I should have.
Speaker 2: That's your job, Willy, a great job. But you know what,
Speaker 2: I do want to say something, you know, because I
Speaker 2: think you and I have discussed this before. I think
Speaker 2: the events of the last few days really make it
Speaker 2: apparent why it's so important for corners to be independently
Speaker 2: elected in the great state of Ohio. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: exactly these kinds of situations where you want your corner
Speaker 2: to be independently elected and empowered to be able to
Speaker 2: speak to the people and give them provide the factual
Speaker 2: information to the people.
Speaker 1: This is relatable. It's about a month ago the House
Speaker 1: of Representatives and Columbus passed a bill that eliminated the
Speaker 1: county corners offices put them under the auspices of county commissioner.
Speaker 1: And everyone I've spoken to about that said, don't do it.
Speaker 1: And this is a perfect example as why not to
Speaker 1: do it. You don't represent the prosecutor, you don't represent
Speaker 1: county commissioners, you represent an independent body elected by the
Speaker 1: people directly. Is that the point you're.
Speaker 2: Making, That's exactly the point I'm making. And that's why
Speaker 2: I asked everybody to Senator Bill Bluffing has authored an
Speaker 2: amendment to remove that language and keep the corners elected
Speaker 2: in the state of Ohio, and he's putting that in
Speaker 2: front of the Senate for their vote, and I encourage
Speaker 2: everybody to get in touch with their state senators to
Speaker 2: please find on that or to support his amendment.
Speaker 1: All right, doctor Somarco, thank you. And you waited to
Speaker 1: have it. You got independent lawyer advice and to proceed,
Speaker 1: and you're proceeding, I guess over the objection of the
Speaker 1: county prosecutor. Is that fair to.
Speaker 2: Say, well, I'm proceeding after I've been given advice that
Speaker 2: I can proceed. And I think it's important for our
Speaker 2: public to have the information from our office, directly from
Speaker 2: our office.
Speaker 1: You don't work for nobody but the American people.
Speaker 2: I work for the people of Hamilton County.
Speaker 1: Doctor lastmis Marco, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: WILLI all right, let's continue. Wow, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1: I'm holding these statements of Cincinnati police saying that this
Speaker 1: was justified shooting, which I certainly believe is the case,
Speaker 1: but it appears not to be the case that the
Speaker 1: officer shot Ryan Hinton directly in front of him in
Speaker 1: the chest, starting him to the back. It appears likely
Speaker 1: at this point that Ryan Hinton did not have in
Speaker 1: his right hand the so called nine millimeter. The picture
Speaker 1: has shown it appeared he did not have it. But
Speaker 1: let's see what develops later. It's still, to my way,
Speaker 1: a justified shooting. And in fact, the county prosecutor, County
Speaker 1: Pillage said on Friday with me on the air, that
Speaker 1: she has seen nothing to indicate that it was a
Speaker 1: bad shooting. And she has seen all the videotape available.
Speaker 1: There's only one, by the way, only the officer doing
Speaker 1: the shooting bodycam. It's the only one available. And Connie
Speaker 1: Pillage said on Friday she's seen nothing to indicate that
Speaker 1: a crime was committed by the police. And I assume
Speaker 1: she's sticking with that because she has seen the videotape.
Speaker 1: Now she is the autopsy results which seemed to indicate
Speaker 1: that Ryan Hinton was shot from the side and not
Speaker 1: the front or the back. From the side. Let's continue.
Speaker 1: Bill Cunningham, News Radio seven hundred WLW