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<v Speaker 1>By Billy cunning in the Great American Joonaan you and

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<v Speaker 1>I now is doctor Lastmi Somarco Himna County Corner and

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Samarco. Welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show. And

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, doctor can you tell the American people

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<v Speaker 1>your preliminary findings and what caused the death of Ryan

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<v Speaker 1>Hinton on May first of this year?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Willie, thanks for having me on the show. Just

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I had the press conference to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>that the facts were given accurately to the public. So

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<v Speaker 2>he had a soft tissue wound to the left forearm

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<v Speaker 2>and entrance wound and exit wound. Then he had the

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<v Speaker 2>lethal wound was to the side left lateral which is

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<v Speaker 2>the side of the chest, and that did deflect and

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<v Speaker 2>injure one of the ribs and then went travel through

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<v Speaker 2>the left ventricle and exited near the sternum.

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<v Speaker 1>So as far as the may I use the term

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<v Speaker 1>kill shot, can you a relative to the left armpit?

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<v Speaker 1>How many inches below the left armpit did the bullet

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<v Speaker 1>enter and what part of the body did it exit?

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<v Speaker 2>It didn't, I mean, it's not interesting. So if if

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<v Speaker 2>you were wearing a if he had been wearing a

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<v Speaker 2>bra like a woman would, it would be bralined basically,

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<v Speaker 2>and it exited by the sternum.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there any indication at this point whether there were

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<v Speaker 1>three shots fired or two that hit the body.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great question. What we do is describe entrance

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<v Speaker 2>and exit wounds, and so there are actually three entrance wounds.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason we don't make a comment about whether it's

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<v Speaker 2>the same bullet or not is we don't know. But

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<v Speaker 2>it is possible that the left form and left lateral

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<v Speaker 2>chest wound could have been caused by the same bullet.

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<v Speaker 2>That is possible.

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<v Speaker 1>The videotape shows Ryan Hinton running, so if the arm

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<v Speaker 1>was in the downward position and the right arm in

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<v Speaker 1>the upward position as he was running, it's possible the

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<v Speaker 1>bullet would have entered the forearm as he was running,

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<v Speaker 1>and that same bullet as the one that went through

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<v Speaker 1>the chest and exit out the startam. Is that correct? That?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? The left form, Yes, that is correct. It's possible.

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<v Speaker 1>What was that bullet recovered?

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, there are only small pieces of it that

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<v Speaker 2>were recovered. But no.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, he also made the comment, at least at the

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<v Speaker 1>news conference in the media that you received the grand

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<v Speaker 1>jury subpoena from the Prosecutor's office. It was the first

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<v Speaker 1>time in thirteen years that has happened. Why is that unusual?

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<v Speaker 2>I well, I mean, you got me. I mean, this

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<v Speaker 2>is the first time I've ever gotten one, So I

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<v Speaker 2>don't I was unaware. In fact, I kind of asked

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<v Speaker 2>the some of the more experienced people that had retired

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<v Speaker 2>from that office in the past, has that ever happened

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<v Speaker 2>in Hamilton County? And one of them, who had been

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<v Speaker 2>there over forty years, said no. So I was not

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with that happening and why, And so I asked

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<v Speaker 2>that question, and like I said, I had to. I

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<v Speaker 2>canceled it. But it was basically, in my mind, a

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<v Speaker 2>postponement because I just needed to gather the facts and

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<v Speaker 2>information and find out, you know, what was needed and

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<v Speaker 2>what needed to happen. And once I got all my

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<v Speaker 2>ducks in a row to understand what the implications were

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<v Speaker 2>of the Grand jurisipoena, and then I and then I

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<v Speaker 2>also found out that some of the preliminary autopsy findings

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<v Speaker 2>were being provided in a public way, not from my office,

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<v Speaker 2>but other offices, and I felt it was important that

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<v Speaker 2>the public here from our office because as you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean over thirteen years, I have been tried. I

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<v Speaker 2>have tried to be as transparent as possible with the public,

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<v Speaker 2>with the media, and also as factual as we can.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it's important that the media and the

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<v Speaker 2>public here from me or somebody in my office what

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<v Speaker 2>the findings are so that we can accurately provide that

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<v Speaker 2>information and answer questions.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a report from Ken Kober, who's had of

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<v Speaker 1>the FOP that he said on this air that the

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<v Speaker 1>anton was shot from the front and the bullets began

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<v Speaker 1>exited from the front of his chest to the back

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<v Speaker 1>of the chest. Is it fair to say your findings

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<v Speaker 1>did not support that?

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<v Speaker 2>That's correct. Our findings did not support that.

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<v Speaker 1>Now there's a reporting also from other sides, the Cochrane

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<v Speaker 1>Law firm. I had on mister Wright from the Cochrane

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<v Speaker 1>Law firm. He said he was shot in the back.

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<v Speaker 1>Did your findings find that to be inaccurate?

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<v Speaker 2>The lethal wound was from the left side of the chest.

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<v Speaker 1>Could the bullet have come from the back? In other words,

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<v Speaker 1>when the officer fired that bullet?

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<v Speaker 2>Did not No, because the entrance wound was left lateral

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<v Speaker 2>chest and it exited near the sternum, which is the

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<v Speaker 2>front of the chest right, So not that one.

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<v Speaker 1>All right. So in a sense, the head of the

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<v Speaker 1>police union may be wrong, and the Cochrane law firm

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<v Speaker 1>may also be wrong. If one says it was a

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<v Speaker 1>front surnam to back and the law firm says it

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<v Speaker 1>was from the back. Both those indications, if what I

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<v Speaker 1>said is accurate, both of them are wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>When it comes to the lethal wound. That is correct.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, when you mentioned your own counsel, there was some

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<v Speaker 1>reference that your news conference ane and a half that

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<v Speaker 1>you're getting your own counsel. I think the guy's name.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to give out his name if it's

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<v Speaker 1>a matter. But by statute, the coroner's office as lawyer

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<v Speaker 1>is Countie Pillage, the county prosecutor. And why would you

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<v Speaker 1>need your own counsel?

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<v Speaker 2>I consulted somebody to give us some advice because the

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<v Speaker 2>grand jury subpoena that was served was served by the

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<v Speaker 2>prosecutor's office, and in discussing with the prosecutor's office the

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<v Speaker 2>grand jury subpoena and other information that I requested, they

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<v Speaker 2>said that I would They advised that I would need

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<v Speaker 2>to obtain independent council because that represented a conflict of

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<v Speaker 2>interest for the prosecutor, and.

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<v Speaker 1>You're relying upon the advice not of the prosecutor Countie Pillage,

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<v Speaker 1>but on this independent attorney to proceed how to proceed?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that correct as far as the press conference was concerned.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay. At this point, has there been a second

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<v Speaker 1>autopsy requested by the Cochrane Law firm.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, Actually I was aware. I was made aware about

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<v Speaker 2>a week ago or a week and a half ago

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<v Speaker 2>that that had already been.

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<v Speaker 1>Performed, okay, And that's why the body was released for

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<v Speaker 1>burial on Saturday.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the body was released for burial when we were done,

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<v Speaker 2>So we don't we don't hold the body back if

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<v Speaker 2>we're done with what we need to do. We want

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<v Speaker 2>the family to have the option to as always with

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<v Speaker 2>any case, as soon as we're done doing what we

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<v Speaker 2>need to do for our portion of investigation, we release

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<v Speaker 2>the body to the family so that they can say

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<v Speaker 2>goodbye to their loved ones and take the appropriate measures

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<v Speaker 2>to to make that happen. So we do that as

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<v Speaker 2>quickly as we can for anybody. And what happens to

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<v Speaker 2>the body once they received the body at the funeral

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<v Speaker 2>home is up to the family, and if the family chose,

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<v Speaker 2>along with their attorney to have a second autopsy done

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<v Speaker 2>at that time, that's that's their choice to make.

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<v Speaker 1>As far as this other bullet, I think there was

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<v Speaker 1>a third gun shot, and that slug was found inside

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<v Speaker 1>the body. Can you tell the American people the course

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<v Speaker 1>of that third gun shot that was located beneath the

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<v Speaker 1>base of the skull? Explain that place?

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<v Speaker 2>So that was that travel just beneath the skin, and

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<v Speaker 2>the entrance wound was the right poster a lateral and

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<v Speaker 2>I you know, right poster a lateral portion of the

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<v Speaker 2>chest and adjacent to the right shoulder, So it was

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<v Speaker 2>in that region and it literally traveled right between the

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<v Speaker 2>right I'm sorry, right beneath the skin, and it stayed

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<v Speaker 2>was just beneath the skin. It didn't impact any bones

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<v Speaker 2>at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh. Can you say which of the gunshots were fired first?

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<v Speaker 1>Because when I hear the left side like a woman's

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<v Speaker 1>brawl strap kind of several inches below the armpits. Then

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<v Speaker 1>I hear about this other bullet that hit the right side,

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<v Speaker 1>that indicates to me the body was turning in some sense?

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<v Speaker 1>Am I right about that?

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't tell you what position I mean, I can

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<v Speaker 2>tell you that the that the lethal wound was from

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<v Speaker 2>the left side, so and like literally the side, not

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<v Speaker 2>you know people say was a kind of a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit to the fan, a little bit to the back.

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<v Speaker 2>Note it was directly at the side of the body.

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<v Speaker 2>So that I can tell you as far as which

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<v Speaker 2>one was first and which one was second or third,

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<v Speaker 2>I I couldn't tell you. I mean, I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>which one. And I don't know if somebody can take

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<v Speaker 2>a look at that body camera bodycam footage and tell

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<v Speaker 2>you either, because there, I mean it is and pretty

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<v Speaker 2>fast and it's really blurry, and I don't know about you,

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<v Speaker 2>but I get a little motion sick, and I mean

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<v Speaker 2>even seeing enough as that was like, oh boy, I

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<v Speaker 2>can't watch. So, you know, I think an expert that

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<v Speaker 2>can go frame by frame and maybe isolate some of

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<v Speaker 2>the sound and can do that maybe able to tell.

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<v Speaker 2>But we can't tell which one was first or second.

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<v Speaker 1>So someone would take a laser beam from the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the police officer's weapon and have a straight laser

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<v Speaker 1>beam into the body of Ryan Hinton. The entry room

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<v Speaker 1>that killed him was directly in the side, neither front

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<v Speaker 1>nor back, below the armpit and the left side of

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<v Speaker 1>the chest, and the other wound was in the right

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<v Speaker 1>side of the chest. The boy came to beneath the

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<v Speaker 1>base of the skull and stopped there. That wasn't the

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<v Speaker 1>kill When I hear about base of the skull, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>thinking that's like a kill shot, but you're saying it is.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no. It didn't even enter the skull.

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<v Speaker 2>It was. It was completely just beneath the skin, and

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<v Speaker 2>it was below the skull. I was just trying to

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<v Speaker 2>give a position of where the bullet ended up, because

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<v Speaker 2>we did retrieve.

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<v Speaker 1>That bullet, okay, But as far as the kill shot,

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<v Speaker 1>it was directly in the side. What you would indicate

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<v Speaker 1>that when Ryan Hinton was shot, the officer was to

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<v Speaker 1>the side and not to the front of the back.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the way the bullet traveled. It was directly to

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<v Speaker 2>the side.

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<v Speaker 1>Where does your investigation go from hare, Are you completely

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<v Speaker 1>done at this point?

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<v Speaker 2>No, we actually have a couple more lab tests that

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<v Speaker 2>were waiting on just to be complete. And when everything

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<v Speaker 2>is put together, everything we finalized, the death certificate will

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<v Speaker 2>be final, death certificate will be signed and that'll be

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<v Speaker 2>the end of that. So you know, as far as

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<v Speaker 2>what percentage of the investigation do we have left? Probably

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<v Speaker 2>less than ninety percent. Most of it's already been done.

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<v Speaker 2>But we're always complete on looking for as I said

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<v Speaker 2>in the press conference, as a service to Hamilton County

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<v Speaker 2>residence and to the family of the victims, we're pretty

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<v Speaker 2>thorough and looking at all the other parts of the

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<v Speaker 2>body to see if maybe there's some sort of genetic

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<v Speaker 2>disease or something that we need to inform them about,

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<v Speaker 2>or if there were other medical issues that that person had.

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<v Speaker 2>We try and be complete to give them all the information.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you find any illegal drugs in Ryan Hinton's body?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's still toxicology and that's still even though some

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<v Speaker 2>of it's come back, not all of it's comeback.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the part that's comeback indicating he had illegal drugs

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<v Speaker 1>in his body.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I don't want to talk about it right now, Willie,

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<v Speaker 2>because we still have other things pending, and I don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to keep going back and forth on the information.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's just wait until we get everything, okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you discuss that all the gun itself? Was it

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<v Speaker 1>in the right hand of Ryan Hinton? Do you know

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<v Speaker 1>from any of your work whether the gun was in

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<v Speaker 1>the right hand at the time he was shot.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't have any of that information. We you know,

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<v Speaker 2>as far as if you're looking for a gun chat

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<v Speaker 2>resident and whatnot. As I explained in the press conference,

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<v Speaker 2>just the fact that he was shot could cause him

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<v Speaker 2>to have gunshot residue on a skin surface, So that

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be a definitive indicator of whether he had a

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<v Speaker 2>gun in his hand or not. And if you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think you know this already, I mean, the

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<v Speaker 2>presence of gunshot residue doesn't necessarily indicate whether even somebody

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<v Speaker 2>pulled the trigger, right, I mean that there's a certain

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<v Speaker 2>distribution if if a shooter pulls the trigger. But just

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that there may be gunshot residue anywhere on

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<v Speaker 2>the body or clothing doesn't necessarily mean that they pulled it.

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<v Speaker 2>They could just be near somebody that was shooting, or

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<v Speaker 2>you know, within a closer vicinity so that it sprays

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<v Speaker 2>out on them. And you know, and if you're a

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<v Speaker 2>victim that's been shot, of course there's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>gunshot residue. So it's not a good indicator.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you find any nitrade or gunshot resnue on the

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<v Speaker 1>body of Ryan Hinton.

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<v Speaker 2>That's another thing I would have to ask for our

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<v Speaker 2>FONTS guys about or trace evidence guys, because I haven't

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<v Speaker 2>looked into that. I was simply presenting autopsy findings.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, how many feet was Ryan Hinton when he was

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<v Speaker 1>hit by the kill shot from the origination of the shot?

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<v Speaker 1>Was it five feet? Ten feet twenty?

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<v Speaker 2>Would not be able to tell you. That would be

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<v Speaker 2>something that I wouldn't be able to tell you. And

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<v Speaker 2>if the pathologists can can say that, nobody asked him

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<v Speaker 2>that question that I'm aware of, because I wasn't given

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<v Speaker 2>that information.

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<v Speaker 1>So as far as the right hand of Ryan Hinton,

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<v Speaker 1>there was no indication that Ryan Hinton had far at

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<v Speaker 1>any weapon. Is that fair to say?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know that. I don't know what the GSR

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<v Speaker 2>GSR results were on that, Okay?

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<v Speaker 1>And when will you have the toxicology report complete? About?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, hopefully we'll have most of the stuff complete by

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<v Speaker 2>this week, would.

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<v Speaker 1>Say within seven within seven days?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I would think so. Yeah, And I still

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<v Speaker 2>have to I'll still have to check with our Trace

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<v Speaker 2>sevenance section as far as if we did any GSR

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<v Speaker 2>collection and what that shows.

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<v Speaker 1>That's its gunshot RESIDU is GSR correct. Yeah, yeah, we

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Simarco, thank you. I have I not asked you

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<v Speaker 1>a question I should have.

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<v Speaker 2>That's your job, Willy, a great job. But you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>I do want to say something, you know, because I

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<v Speaker 2>think you and I have discussed this before. I think

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<v Speaker 2>the events of the last few days really make it

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<v Speaker 2>apparent why it's so important for corners to be independently

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<v Speaker 2>elected in the great state of Ohio. I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 2>exactly these kinds of situations where you want your corner

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<v Speaker 2>to be independently elected and empowered to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>speak to the people and give them provide the factual

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<v Speaker 2>information to the people.

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<v Speaker 1>This is relatable. It's about a month ago the House

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<v Speaker 1>of Representatives and Columbus passed a bill that eliminated the

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<v Speaker 1>county corners offices put them under the auspices of county commissioner.

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<v Speaker 1>And everyone I've spoken to about that said, don't do it.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is a perfect example as why not to

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<v Speaker 1>do it. You don't represent the prosecutor, you don't represent

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<v Speaker 1>county commissioners, you represent an independent body elected by the

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<v Speaker 1>people directly. Is that the point you're.

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<v Speaker 2>Making, That's exactly the point I'm making. And that's why

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<v Speaker 2>I asked everybody to Senator Bill Bluffing has authored an

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<v Speaker 2>amendment to remove that language and keep the corners elected

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<v Speaker 2>in the state of Ohio, and he's putting that in

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<v Speaker 2>front of the Senate for their vote, and I encourage

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<v Speaker 2>everybody to get in touch with their state senators to

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<v Speaker 2>please find on that or to support his amendment.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, doctor Somarco, thank you. And you waited to

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<v Speaker 1>have it. You got independent lawyer advice and to proceed,

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<v Speaker 1>and you're proceeding, I guess over the objection of the

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<v Speaker 1>county prosecutor. Is that fair to.

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<v Speaker 2>Say, well, I'm proceeding after I've been given advice that

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<v Speaker 2>I can proceed. And I think it's important for our

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<v Speaker 2>public to have the information from our office, directly from

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<v Speaker 2>our office.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't work for nobody but the American people.

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<v Speaker 2>I work for the people of Hamilton County.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor lastmis Marco, thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>WILLI all right, let's continue. Wow, so we'll see what happens.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm holding these statements of Cincinnati police saying that this

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<v Speaker 1>was justified shooting, which I certainly believe is the case,

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<v Speaker 1>but it appears not to be the case that the

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<v Speaker 1>officer shot Ryan Hinton directly in front of him in

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<v Speaker 1>the chest, starting him to the back. It appears likely

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<v Speaker 1>at this point that Ryan Hinton did not have in

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<v Speaker 1>his right hand the so called nine millimeter. The picture

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<v Speaker 1>has shown it appeared he did not have it. But

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<v Speaker 1>let's see what develops later. It's still, to my way,

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<v Speaker 1>a justified shooting. And in fact, the county prosecutor, County

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<v Speaker 1>Pillage said on Friday with me on the air, that

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<v Speaker 1>she has seen nothing to indicate that it was a

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<v Speaker 1>bad shooting. And she has seen all the videotape available.

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<v Speaker 1>There's only one, by the way, only the officer doing

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<v Speaker 1>the shooting bodycam. It's the only one available. And Connie

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<v Speaker 1>Pillage said on Friday she's seen nothing to indicate that

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<v Speaker 1>a crime was committed by the police. And I assume

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<v Speaker 1>she's sticking with that because she has seen the videotape.

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<v Speaker 1>Now she is the autopsy results which seemed to indicate

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<v Speaker 1>that Ryan Hinton was shot from the side and not

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<v Speaker 1>the front or the back. From the side. Let's continue.

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Cunningham, News Radio seven hundred WLW