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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I heard a wonderful story of when you

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<v Speaker 1>were six years old and you started breaking the rules

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<v Speaker 1>even then. So you were six years old and you

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<v Speaker 1>were invited by your cousin to a birthday party, but

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<v Speaker 1>there was only there were two problems with that. One

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<v Speaker 1>you were grounded, and two it was on the other

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<v Speaker 1>side of town. So can you explain, tell, tell the

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<v Speaker 1>audience how you got there?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, I mean this was when I was six,

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<v Speaker 2>so the memory is a little fuzzy at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>But as I recall, yeah, I was grounded for some reason.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know why, but I think I felt that

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<v Speaker 2>was unjust and and I really wanted to go to

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<v Speaker 2>this party. My cousin's party, who was five, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>is a kid's party. So I at first I was

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<v Speaker 2>going to take my bike. But then and I told

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<v Speaker 2>my mom this, which is a mistake, and she's she

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<v Speaker 2>told me some story about how you needed a license

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<v Speaker 2>for a bike and the police would stop me. So

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't harmstead sure if she was that was true

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<v Speaker 2>or not, but I thought i'd better walk just in case.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, just I sort of thought I knew the way,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was clear across town. So I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>it was ten or twelve miles away. It's really really

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<v Speaker 2>quite far further than I realized, actually, And so I

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<v Speaker 2>just started walking to my cousin's house and he took

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<v Speaker 2>me about four hours. And just as my mom was

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<v Speaker 2>leaving that party with my brother and sister, she saw

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<v Speaker 2>me walking down the road and freaked out. And then

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<v Speaker 2>I saw I saw she saw me. So I then

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<v Speaker 2>sprint into my cousin's house and I was just about

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<v Speaker 2>two blocks away, and then climbed a tree and refused

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<v Speaker 2>to come down.

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<v Speaker 1>So the first of many rule briefing adventurest mask. So

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<v Speaker 1>by the time you were twelve, you're already an entrepreneur

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<v Speaker 1>and making a profit. I understand you earned five hundred

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<v Speaker 1>dollars equivalent and rand for creating a video game. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you tell us about that and what the inspiration wash?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sure, So I when I was about ten, I

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<v Speaker 2>walked into a computer store in South Africa and saw

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<v Speaker 2>an actual computer. I previously had some some early sort

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<v Speaker 2>of precursors to to the Atari system, and then I

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<v Speaker 2>got the Atari system, which I'm sure a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people here have played. And and but then so you

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<v Speaker 2>can actually have a computer where you can make your

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<v Speaker 2>own games. And it was a Commodore VIC twenty. So

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<v Speaker 2>I was the first computer I bought, and I got

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<v Speaker 2>some books on how to teach yourself programming, and.

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<v Speaker 3>This was like the coolest thing I'd ever seen.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was just like, this is super awesome, and

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<v Speaker 2>uh so start programming games and and then selling games

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<v Speaker 2>in order to actually buy more games. So a bit

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<v Speaker 2>a bit of a circular thing. So and more games

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<v Speaker 2>and better computers and that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 4>Right, So the money wasn't the end goal for you.

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<v Speaker 4>It was more a means to an end.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, basically I'd spend money on yeah, better, better computers

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<v Speaker 2>and dungeons and Dragons, modules and things like that, nerd

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<v Speaker 2>Master three thousand, basically.

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<v Speaker 1>So I understand at that time you were heavily into comics.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm curious to know. Did you love iron Man, the

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<v Speaker 4>comic Iron iron Man?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Did you ever imagine that you would be the inspiration

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<v Speaker 1>for the movie version?

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<v Speaker 3>I did not? That was that was that was pretty

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<v Speaker 3>That was pretty much. I would say Zerups, I would

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<v Speaker 3>have said, zerups, and.

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<v Speaker 4>Chance, what kind of kid? Were you? Kid?

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<v Speaker 1>You can you look back and see yourself where you

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<v Speaker 1>Were you a bit of a lunar kid bookie?

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<v Speaker 3>I certainly I wasn't that much of a loaner, at

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<v Speaker 3>least not willingly so.

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<v Speaker 2>But but I certainly was quite I was very very bookish.

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<v Speaker 2>I was reading all the time. So I was either reading,

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<v Speaker 2>working on my computer, reading comics, playing Dungeon Dragons, that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 4>I understand.

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<v Speaker 1>Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, that wonderful book by Douglas Adams.

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<v Speaker 4>That was a that was a key book for you.

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<v Speaker 4>What was it about that book that that fired your imagination?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>So I guess when I was in the around twelve

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<v Speaker 2>or thirteen, a head company existential crisis, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>reading various books on trying to figure out the meaning

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<v Speaker 2>of life and or like what does it all mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Because it's seeming quite meaningless.

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<v Speaker 3>And then.

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<v Speaker 2>We haven't have like some books by Nietzs and Schopenhauer

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<v Speaker 2>in the house, which you should not read at age

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<v Speaker 2>fourteen is bad, it's really negative. So so, but but

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<v Speaker 2>then I read the Hitchhack's Guy the Galaxy, which was

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<v Speaker 2>like quite positive, I think, and and it sort of

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<v Speaker 2>highlighted the an important point, which is that a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of times the question is harder than the answer, and

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<v Speaker 2>if you can properly phrase the question, then the answer

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<v Speaker 2>is the easy part.

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<v Speaker 3>And so.

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<v Speaker 2>The if to the agree that we can better understand

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<v Speaker 2>the universe, then we better know what questions to ask.

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<v Speaker 2>And then whatever the question is that most approx approximates,

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<v Speaker 2>what's the meaning of life? You know that that's that's

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<v Speaker 2>the question we could ultimately get closer to understanding. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I thought, well, to the agree that we can

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<v Speaker 2>expand the scope and scale of consciousness and knowledge human knowledge,

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<v Speaker 2>then that would be a good thing.

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<v Speaker 4>Wow, So you're having these deep thoughts of what age

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<v Speaker 4>ten fourteen?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sort of in the puberty, I guess there's right,

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<v Speaker 2>thirteen thirteen through fifteen probably the most traumatic years.

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<v Speaker 1>And so by the time you were seventeen, were you

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<v Speaker 1>were ready? You were actually left right? I assume you

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<v Speaker 1>hatched the plan earlier when you were around fifty fourteen fifteen.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't hatch the plan earlier. Actually I tried to

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<v Speaker 2>hatch several plans which they did not hatch.

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<v Speaker 1>But by seventeen you were on a plane from South Africa.

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<v Speaker 1>You had enough of South Africa, you were ready to

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<v Speaker 1>seek new pastures.

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<v Speaker 4>Now, why was.

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<v Speaker 1>It the United States was your destination? Why not Europe

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<v Speaker 1>or somewhere else in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, just whenever I'd read about cool technology, you would

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<v Speaker 2>tend to be in the United States, you know, or

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<v Speaker 2>more broadly North America or including Canada. So I kind

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<v Speaker 2>of wanted to be where the cutting edge of technic

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<v Speaker 2>algi was.

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<v Speaker 3>And of course within the.

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<v Speaker 2>United States, Silicon Valley is is the it is where

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<v Speaker 2>the heart of things is. So although the time I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't know where to looking value wise, it sounded like

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<v Speaker 2>some mythical place. So yes, I wanted to come to

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<v Speaker 2>the to the US. I try to convince my my

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<v Speaker 2>mother or father, who were divorced, if either one of

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<v Speaker 2>them would move.

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<v Speaker 3>To the United States, then I could then I could

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<v Speaker 3>get there.

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<v Speaker 2>At one point I convinced my father, but then he

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<v Speaker 2>renegged unfortunately, but you.

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<v Speaker 4>Had him convinced and then he changed.

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<v Speaker 3>You did say yes, and then and then he changed

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<v Speaker 3>his mind. Why, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess he was sort of he was fairly established.

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<v Speaker 2>He's an engineer, and he's sort of established in South Africa.

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<v Speaker 2>Didn't want to have to go through that again in

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<v Speaker 2>another country, right, So you got.

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<v Speaker 4>On that plane all by yourself at seventeen.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah, so I actually got My mother was born

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<v Speaker 2>in Canada, and actually her father was a American, but

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<v Speaker 2>unfortunately she didn't get her American citizenship, so then that

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<v Speaker 2>broke the link and I couldn't get my American citizenship.

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<v Speaker 2>But she was born in Canada, so I could get

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<v Speaker 2>I actually pulled up the forms for her and got

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<v Speaker 2>her Canadian passport and me too. And then as soon

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<v Speaker 2>as within three weeks of my getting my Canadian passport,

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<v Speaker 2>I was in Canada, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you ended up at University of Pennsylvania. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I was in physics and business.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I was in Canada for a few years

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<v Speaker 2>at Queen's University, got a scholarship to go down to

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<v Speaker 2>University of Pennsylvania because one of the downsides of coming

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<v Speaker 2>to University of North America was that my parents said

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<v Speaker 2>they would not pay for college if it was or

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<v Speaker 2>my father said he would not pay for college unless

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<v Speaker 2>it was in South Africa. So it was either so

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<v Speaker 2>I could have free college in Sotoca or find some

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<v Speaker 2>way to pay it here. And fortunately I got a

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<v Speaker 2>scholarship at Yupan and and so did did he business

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<v Speaker 2>underdual undergraduate business and at Upaen Wharton, And it.

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<v Speaker 1>Was there that you came up with this idea of

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<v Speaker 1>three main areas that you felt were most important to humanity.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you describe how you came upon them? Was it

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<v Speaker 1>just one day or the flash of inspiration? These are

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<v Speaker 1>the three areas that are important and I want to

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<v Speaker 1>concentrate on or how did that? How did that inspiration

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<v Speaker 1>come to you?

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<v Speaker 3>Now?

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<v Speaker 2>I think I was thinking about it for a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of years, and during sort of freshman and sophomore year

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<v Speaker 2>at Queens and then also at Yupan, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>trying to think what would most influence the future?

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, you know, were the problems that that we have

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<v Speaker 3>to solve?

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<v Speaker 2>And and I actually talked a lot to friends and

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<v Speaker 2>my housemates and that kind of thing, and dates, which

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<v Speaker 2>is not maybe not the best thing. Yeah, I actually

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<v Speaker 2>met met a woman at I dated briefly in college

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<v Speaker 2>even now it works at Scientific American as a writer.

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<v Speaker 2>And uh and and she she related that anecdote that

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<v Speaker 2>uh we were on a date.

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<v Speaker 3>I was all I was talking about was electric cars.

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<v Speaker 3>That was not a bit a winning conversation.

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<v Speaker 4>So it was a bit of a monologue.

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<v Speaker 3>Was it? Yeah, she said, she said.

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<v Speaker 2>The first question I asked her was do you ever

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<v Speaker 2>think about electric cars?

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<v Speaker 4>So you'll learn from that. That wasn't the best shot

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<v Speaker 4>out life.

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<v Speaker 3>It wasn't wasn't great. It has recently it's been more effective.

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<v Speaker 1>There you go, that's wonderful. Well, we'll get on to

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<v Speaker 1>Tesla soon, but I want to I want to go

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<v Speaker 1>from from University of Pennsylvania. You ended up in Silicon

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<v Speaker 1>Valley and you've described Silicon Valley as Darwinian.

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<v Speaker 4>Can you talk about what it.

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<v Speaker 3>Was the most positive sense? Really?

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<v Speaker 1>Can you elaborate on what that means and why it

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<v Speaker 1>had to be Silicon Valley? What what drew you to

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<v Speaker 1>Silicon Valley?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, uh, well, I was at I was at penn

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<v Speaker 2>and there was a professor who who was chairman of

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<v Speaker 2>a company in Silicon Valley that was working on advanced

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<v Speaker 2>capacitors for use in electric cars, potentially for use in

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<v Speaker 2>electric cars. As it turns out there they're way too expensive.

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<v Speaker 2>But I thought, well, this is this is really awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>Because then I asked if I could get a summer

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<v Speaker 2>job because it was in Silicon Valley and working on

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<v Speaker 2>technology for electric cars. I thought well, that's that's pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much as good as it gets. So I got a

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<v Speaker 2>summer job here was in Los Gatos, actually at Pinnacle

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<v Speaker 2>Research doing electrolytic electric pastors, which were but they had

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<v Speaker 2>the problem was that they used a ruthenium tanglum marks

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<v Speaker 2>side and there was I think only a few tons

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<v Speaker 2>of ruthenium mind in the world, so not very scalable,

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<v Speaker 2>and that you know, they'd sell it to you by

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of millogram, so you know that's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a problem.

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<v Speaker 3>But I had a pretty high energy density.

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<v Speaker 2>It's sort of roughly equivalent to a lad Asto battery,

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<v Speaker 2>which for a capacitor is huge.

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<v Speaker 4>But you ended up then after that at Stanford.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So then I thought, well, Stanford is in Silicon Valley,

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<v Speaker 2>sort of epicenter, and so that's where I wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>come to Stanford, Berkeley and Stanford sort of Sunnier.

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<v Speaker 3>So I like to that's going.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew, I understand you were at Stanford University for

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<v Speaker 1>a whole two days before you decided, no, it's time

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to do my first startup.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I figured, well, so this is a summer of ninety

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<v Speaker 2>five and and I've been working on some Internet software.

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<v Speaker 2>So because the three things I though would depict the

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<v Speaker 2>world with internet, sustainable energy, and uh space exploration, making

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<v Speaker 2>life multiplanetary so the but but on the Internet thing,

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<v Speaker 2>I just couldn't figure out how to make enough money

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<v Speaker 2>to feed myself, you know, because like if I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>make make money, then I would like run out of

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<v Speaker 2>food and eye. So that was that was not good.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah, literally, So whereas you know, if I was

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<v Speaker 2>a student, then I could be teaching assistant and do

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<v Speaker 2>do various things and and and do research on electricicle

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<v Speaker 2>tech technologies.

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<v Speaker 3>That that was my default plan.

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<v Speaker 2>But but then I also thought that if I if

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<v Speaker 2>I did a PhD a Stanford, then I could I

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<v Speaker 2>would spend several years watching the Internet go through this

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<v Speaker 2>incredibly rapid growth base, and that would be really difficult

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<v Speaker 2>to handle. Like it's like you really wanted to be

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<v Speaker 2>doing something.

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<v Speaker 3>Growing.

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<v Speaker 2>It sort of really seemed like things were going to

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<v Speaker 2>take off. Although nobody had made any money on the

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<v Speaker 2>Internet at the time. In ninety five, there was really

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<v Speaker 2>nobody was making any money on the Internet, and in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>even on sand Hill Road, people like watch the Internet.

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<v Speaker 3>They were amazingly.

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<v Speaker 2>When we try to get funding for a company, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was November or something of ninety five

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<v Speaker 2>there about October November. More than half of the bench

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<v Speaker 2>capitalists we met with did not know what the internet.

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<v Speaker 3>Was and had not used it.

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<v Speaker 4>That's amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, literally, it's like, isn't that They're literally asking, isn't

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<v Speaker 2>that something that the government and universities used?

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<v Speaker 3>Like uh for now you know. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But then then Netscape went public in late ninety five

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was. And then after that, even though

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of bench capitals still didn't understand it and

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<v Speaker 2>still hadn't used it, they somebody had made money on it.

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<v Speaker 4>So now that it was on the radar.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so when we went to get funding the second

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<v Speaker 2>time we try to get funding, everyone was interested.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 4>So this company was zip two, that's.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, and terrible name.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah. What what was the reason for that name?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we were just incredibly stupid at the time. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's the main reason for that name. And because

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<v Speaker 2>we got some ad agency because we thought, well, we

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<v Speaker 2>don't know anything about names, so we'll get some ad

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<v Speaker 2>agencies to suggest a bunch of options, and then Zip

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<v Speaker 2>too seemed.

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<v Speaker 3>Kind of speedy. I don't know, what the hell, Why

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<v Speaker 3>the hell we chose that stupid name and it has

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<v Speaker 3>a digit, It's like, why would you pick it? Because

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<v Speaker 3>it could be zip t O, could be a zip

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<v Speaker 3>t w O, it could be zip t o O.

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<v Speaker 2>So like people like literally spelled the name every variation,

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<v Speaker 2>which is bad if you go to U r L

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<v Speaker 2>and you don't have the other ones. So so ZIP

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<v Speaker 2>two started off as basically, like I said, we're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to figure out how to how to make enough money

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<v Speaker 2>to exist as a company. And so since there wasn't

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00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:05.879
<v Speaker 2>really any advertising money being made, we thought we could

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<v Speaker 2>help existing companies get online bring their stuff online. So

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00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.360
<v Speaker 2>we developed software that helped bring love the newspapers and

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<v Speaker 2>media companies online because a lot of them just didn't

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<v Speaker 2>They also didn't know what the Internet was customers, and

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<v Speaker 2>even the ones that were aware of the Internet didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have a software team. So they were very good at

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<v Speaker 2>developing functionality. And so we had as investors and customers

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<v Speaker 2>the New York Times company night Ritter or Hearst, and

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<v Speaker 2>so we were able to get them to pay us

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<v Speaker 2>to develop software for them to bring them online, so

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<v Speaker 2>online publishing stuff, and we did maps and directions and

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<v Speaker 2>yellow pages and white pages and various other things, and

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<v Speaker 2>were developed quite sophisticated technology actually, but it wasn't actually

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<v Speaker 2>being employed super well by the media companies, Like we

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<v Speaker 2>would suggest ways to use it and then it would

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<v Speaker 2>not be used as effectively as it could be.

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<v Speaker 3>It was very frustrating, right, Whether you.

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00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Did sell that company successfully to Compac, yeah, right, and

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<v Speaker 1>that allowed you to go on and create egg dot com.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right, yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So the Compact had had ulta vista, so I thought,

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00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.119
<v Speaker 2>was combined Altivist and a bunch of other technology companies

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<v Speaker 2>and see if that would if that would work, which

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<v Speaker 2>it did not, but but nonetheless they they they were

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<v Speaker 2>pretty nice guys and bought the company and and that

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<v Speaker 2>gave me the capital to to do another company. And

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<v Speaker 2>I want, I want to do another company and the Internet,

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<v Speaker 2>because I thought we don't really reached the potential that

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<v Speaker 2>we could have with with zip too, because we had

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<v Speaker 2>really sophisticated software. I mean, our software was sort of

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<v Speaker 2>at least comparable to what Yahoo or Excite or others had.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, I mean I thought in some ways it

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00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:59.799
<v Speaker 2>was better, so but it wasn't because it was all

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<v Speaker 2>for through these partners. It wasn't getting properly used. So

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00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:06.839
<v Speaker 2>I thought, well, I want to do something that could

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00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:11.920
<v Speaker 2>be more more significant contributor contribution to the Internet. And

340
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<v Speaker 2>so the initial thought was with financial services.

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<v Speaker 3>Because money is digital, it's low bandwidth.

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<v Speaker 2>At the time, there was you know, most people were

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<v Speaker 2>on modems, still on modems.

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<v Speaker 3>And because this was late ninety eight early ninety nine,

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<v Speaker 3>So this was x.

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<v Speaker 1>Dot Com was a precursor to PayPal. Basically you merged

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00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:36.920
<v Speaker 1>with Confinity and it became PayPal, major success.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it worked out better than we expected.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so yeah, Confinity. So initially Confinity and x com

350
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.680
<v Speaker 2>started out from slightly different directions and it converged to

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00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.839
<v Speaker 2>the same point with With x the thought was to

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<v Speaker 2>create integrated seat of financial services, so you could go

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<v Speaker 2>to one place into all of your financial anything.

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00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:03.759
<v Speaker 3>And and then as.

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<v Speaker 2>A feature, we had the ability to transfer money or

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00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:09.880
<v Speaker 2>securities or anything simply by entering unique identifier, so like

357
00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:11.160
<v Speaker 2>a you.

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00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:13.680
<v Speaker 3>Know, email address or phone number or something like that.

359
00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.839
<v Speaker 2>And when we were demo the system, the hard stuff,

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00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.759
<v Speaker 2>which was the integration of all the financial services, people

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00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:24.920
<v Speaker 2>would not be interested in, but they'd be really interested

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<v Speaker 2>in it. In being able to transfer money using an

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<v Speaker 2>email address. You know, that was actually quite easy, and

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00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:32.000
<v Speaker 2>so we focused our energy on that.

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00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:33.440
<v Speaker 3>And although it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Easy in principle, what gets really hard is adding security

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<v Speaker 2>whiles still keeping it easy to use. That so because

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00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:45.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like the Willie Loman quote, like why

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00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:47.519
<v Speaker 2>do people why do you rob banks? Because that's where

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00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:49.599
<v Speaker 2>the money is, So why do people rob PayPal for

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<v Speaker 2>the same reason?

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<v Speaker 3>And and so you can, you can dial.

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<v Speaker 2>Up the security to a really high level, but then

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to make it very hard to use. And

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<v Speaker 2>and so the that that was that was one of

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<v Speaker 2>the toughest things we wrestled with. And then Confinity originally

377
00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:10.319
<v Speaker 2>started as kind of software for Palm pilots and then

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<v Speaker 2>they had a demonstration application with stability to beam money

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00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:15.839
<v Speaker 2>from one pomp pilot to another using the infrared port.

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00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:19.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah people remember that one. Yes, that was big at

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<v Speaker 2>one point. And then they had a website sort of

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<v Speaker 2>parallel to that were you because once you'd beamed the

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<v Speaker 2>infrared tokens, you had to slow then synchronize your pomp

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<v Speaker 2>pilot and do the transfer via the website. So but

385
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<v Speaker 2>then people went that interested in the pomp pilot stuff,

386
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<v Speaker 2>but they were interested in the website, so we kind

387
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.079
<v Speaker 2>of converged to the same point and we're quite close together.

388
00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:51.319
<v Speaker 2>So we started to merge the companies and in I

389
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:55.200
<v Speaker 2>think January or so two thousand, it was very turbulent

390
00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:01.279
<v Speaker 2>period and if the the growth in the company was

391
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:05.240
<v Speaker 2>was pretty pretty crazy. When we had at the end

392
00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:09.119
<v Speaker 2>of the first sort of four or five weeks, we

393
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:10.519
<v Speaker 2>had one hundred thousand customers.

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00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:15.279
<v Speaker 1>It's incredible. Did you anticipate that when you started that?

395
00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:20.079
<v Speaker 3>Definitely did not. And it wasn't all good because.

396
00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:24.559
<v Speaker 2>We had some bugs in the software, and you know,

397
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:29.640
<v Speaker 2>even if the bug only occurs one in a thousand times,

398
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.480
<v Speaker 2>still I never heard one hundred.

399
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:33.960
<v Speaker 3>Very angry customers like where my money?

400
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:38.599
<v Speaker 2>That would be you know, reasonable and reasonable concern that

401
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:43.279
<v Speaker 2>people that have. And then we had customer service on

402
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:47.200
<v Speaker 2>University and Avenue in Palo Alto. There were five people,

403
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:53.559
<v Speaker 2>so when something went wrong customer service phones would basically explode,

404
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.160
<v Speaker 2>and so we had many challenges. And then the various

405
00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:00.279
<v Speaker 2>financial regulatory agencies were trying to shut us down. VI's

406
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.240
<v Speaker 2>in Massacot trying to shut us down. EBA was trying

407
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.480
<v Speaker 2>to shut us down. FTC was trying to shut us down.

408
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:07.799
<v Speaker 2>There were a lot of battles there.

409
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:11.559
<v Speaker 1>Wow, it is quite incredible with all that adversity you

410
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.519
<v Speaker 1>conquered and you came out with Yeah, that was one

411
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:16.880
<v Speaker 1>hundred million, right.

412
00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:19.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was a close call. We definitely, I mean,

413
00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:22.119
<v Speaker 3>came very close to dying there in two and two

414
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:22.680
<v Speaker 3>thousand and one.

415
00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:26.119
<v Speaker 1>And what was the reason for that success? What would

416
00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:28.039
<v Speaker 1>you put it down to in that case? How did

417
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:28.720
<v Speaker 1>you overcome?

418
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:32.240
<v Speaker 3>Uh?

419
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I think we had a really talented

420
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:37.880
<v Speaker 2>group of people at PayPal, and a lot of those

421
00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:45.160
<v Speaker 2>people have actually gone on to start many other companies. Yes, know, YouTube, LinkedIn, Yelp, yammer.

422
00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:48.440
<v Speaker 2>It's like quite a long list actually.

423
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:54.119
<v Speaker 1>So for you personally, there you were with several hundred million.

424
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:57.279
<v Speaker 1>Were you not tempted just to go on by an island?

425
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:03.079
<v Speaker 1>What was it the drul of you when I'm getting

426
00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:05.480
<v Speaker 1>at because I know you didn't. Sure what I'm getting

427
00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:08.559
<v Speaker 1>at is, why were you so driven to jump into

428
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:12.720
<v Speaker 1>the next thing? Well, I was Did you take any

429
00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:13.279
<v Speaker 1>time off?

430
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:18.519
<v Speaker 2>I did take a bit of time off because after

431
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.680
<v Speaker 2>a PayPal I did reasonably welcome PayPal. It was largest

432
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:25.960
<v Speaker 2>sholder in the company. So and we were required for

433
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:29.079
<v Speaker 2>about a billion and a half in stock, and then

434
00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:35.480
<v Speaker 2>the stock doubled, so.

435
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:34.960
<v Speaker 3>So you know, it did reasonably reason well.

436
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:38.480
<v Speaker 2>But the idea of like lying on the beach as

437
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.400
<v Speaker 2>my main thing, it just sounds like the worst. That

438
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:46.039
<v Speaker 2>sounds horrible to me because I would go bonkers. I

439
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:50.079
<v Speaker 2>would have you know, I would have to be on

440
00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:57.920
<v Speaker 2>serious drugs. I mean, right exactly. I mean it's just

441
00:23:58.480 --> 00:23:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I'd be super duper bored.

442
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:05.720
<v Speaker 3>So that I mean I like, I like high intensity.

443
00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:08.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean I like going to beach for a short

444
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:11.319
<v Speaker 2>period of time, but not much longer than like, you know,

445
00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:12.480
<v Speaker 2>a few days or something like that.

446
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:14.880
<v Speaker 4>Right, So let's talk about the scenes of SpaceX.

447
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:18.240
<v Speaker 1>I understand it started not as the idea of it,

448
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:20.880
<v Speaker 1>let's let's start a rocket ship company.

449
00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:23.559
<v Speaker 4>You had a philanthropic idea.

450
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.039
<v Speaker 1>You were really surprised when you find out that NASA

451
00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:28.960
<v Speaker 1>didn't have any plans to go to Mars, and you

452
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.920
<v Speaker 1>came up with this idea of let's put a greenhouse

453
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:36.839
<v Speaker 1>on Mars. So can you explain how that whole idea

454
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.519
<v Speaker 1>came into being for SpaceX?

455
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:41.599
<v Speaker 3>Sure?

456
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, so when I was thinking of like what I

457
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.640
<v Speaker 2>thought would would affect the world, as a student. It

458
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:50.519
<v Speaker 2>wasn't really from the standpoint of those are the things

459
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:51.279
<v Speaker 2>I'll get involved in.

460
00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:53.119
<v Speaker 3>It was kind of more in the abstract, these are the.

461
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Things I think will happen that will affect the world,

462
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:58.319
<v Speaker 2>but but not that I will be involved in them.

463
00:24:58.480 --> 00:24:59.359
<v Speaker 3>As it turns out I have.

464
00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:03.720
<v Speaker 2>But uh, I always thought that we would make much

465
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:08.960
<v Speaker 2>more progress than space and it just it just didn't happen.

466
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:14.640
<v Speaker 2>It was it was really disappointing. So, uh yeah, I was.

467
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:19.599
<v Speaker 2>I was was really quite bothered by it. So you know,

468
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:23.000
<v Speaker 2>when when we went to the Moon, we were supposed

469
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:24.640
<v Speaker 2>to have a base on the Moon, We're supposed to

470
00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:28.160
<v Speaker 2>send people to Mars and that stuff just it just

471
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:32.880
<v Speaker 2>didn't happen. We went backwards, we got the Space Shuttle,

472
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:34.759
<v Speaker 2>but the Space Shuttle could only go to low with orbit,

473
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.319
<v Speaker 2>where Saturn five could go to the Moon. Now Space

474
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Shuttle is gone, and so that just seemed like a

475
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:41.839
<v Speaker 2>really bad thing.

476
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:49.440
<v Speaker 3>So I thought, well, maybe it was a question of

477
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:53.799
<v Speaker 3>of they're not being enough attention or will to do this.

478
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.559
<v Speaker 3>But this, this was was this was a wrong assumption.

479
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:00.240
<v Speaker 3>So I.

480
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:04.599
<v Speaker 2>So, but that's that's the reason for the greenhouse idea.

481
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:08.599
<v Speaker 2>It was the thought was if, if, if it could

482
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:11.680
<v Speaker 2>be sort of a small philanthropic mission to Mars. You know,

483
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:14.279
<v Speaker 2>so I wasn't I was expecting to lose all all the.

484
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 3>Money that I invested in that. But if we could

485
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:22.000
<v Speaker 3>send a small greenhouse to the surface of Mars with

486
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:24.880
<v Speaker 3>with seeds and India hydrated nutrient jail and you hydrated

487
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:28.200
<v Speaker 3>upon landing, and you'd have this great shot of you know,

488
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.200
<v Speaker 3>little greenhouse with with little green plants with on on

489
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:35.279
<v Speaker 3>a red background. I thought that would get people excited.

490
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:38.799
<v Speaker 4>You literally imagined a photograph inspiring.

491
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:40.960
<v Speaker 3>And you got to sort of imagine the money shot,

492
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:41.440
<v Speaker 3>if you will.

493
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.519
<v Speaker 2>So so yeah, I think I think, you know, green

494
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:50.200
<v Speaker 2>plants and the red background would be bad. And and

495
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:54.160
<v Speaker 2>people tend to get interested and excited about precedents and superlatives.

496
00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:56.400
<v Speaker 2>So this would be the furthest that life's ever traveled,

497
00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:59.880
<v Speaker 2>the first life on Mars as far as we know.

498
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.599
<v Speaker 3>And and I thought, well, maybe that would result in

499
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:09.319
<v Speaker 3>in a bigger budget for NASA, and and and then

500
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.240
<v Speaker 3>we could sort of resume the journey. That was the

501
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:12.920
<v Speaker 3>basic idea.

502
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:16.720
<v Speaker 2>And I spent several months on this actually and went

503
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:21.359
<v Speaker 2>to Russia three times because I was able to figure

504
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:23.440
<v Speaker 2>out how to get the cost of the spacecraft low

505
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:27.319
<v Speaker 2>and the communications and the the greenhouse and all that

506
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:32.680
<v Speaker 2>to a reasonable number, reasonable meaning several million dollars.

507
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.079
<v Speaker 4>And you have did you actually physically draw the greenhouse

508
00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:37.880
<v Speaker 4>of how you manage that?

509
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Actually, I hope we've got that somewhere.

510
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:42.039
<v Speaker 4>That'd be amazing to see.

511
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:46.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it looks pretty goofy in retrospect,

512
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:49.359
<v Speaker 2>but but that's the that's the idea that we had,

513
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:53.119
<v Speaker 2>and it's so and I spent several hundred thousand dollars

514
00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:57.079
<v Speaker 2>just kind of getting the design worked out and engaging

515
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:02.759
<v Speaker 2>some companies to come up with the design specifications for

516
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:08.200
<v Speaker 2>the subsystems. And then but it then came to buying

517
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:11.319
<v Speaker 2>the rocket, and the problem was that the cost of

518
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:16.400
<v Speaker 2>rockets is really high. And the lowest cost rocket in

519
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:22.720
<v Speaker 2>the US at the time was the Delta too, Bowing's Delta.

520
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:24.680
<v Speaker 3>Two, and that would have.

521
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Been about fifty million dollars. Yeah, and then you still

522
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:31.559
<v Speaker 2>need to have it like an upper stage from WHI

523
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.799
<v Speaker 2>so probably sixty million all in. And that was and

524
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:37.200
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to do two of these missions because I

525
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.279
<v Speaker 2>thought if but it just did just one and it

526
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.240
<v Speaker 2>didn't work, then that could have it like the opposite

527
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:45.480
<v Speaker 2>of effect, Like, look how dumb it is to.

528
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:46.720
<v Speaker 3>Do to drite?

529
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:48.960
<v Speaker 4>Did all this money down the drill or an idiot?

530
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:52.359
<v Speaker 2>So so I wanted to do too, and I just

531
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.480
<v Speaker 2>didn't have enough money to do two complete missions.

532
00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:58.759
<v Speaker 4>So you had a budget of about one hundred million

533
00:28:59.000 --> 00:28:59.680
<v Speaker 4>something like that.

534
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, I was hoping it would be less than that,

535
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:05.440
<v Speaker 2>but but not more than I mean not more than that.

536
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.519
<v Speaker 2>But then, yeah, I guess roughly on that order was

537
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.240
<v Speaker 2>about most of be I mean I couldn't I couldn't

538
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:16.119
<v Speaker 2>spend much more than that.

539
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:22.480
<v Speaker 4>So the Russians didn't help you out.

540
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:25.480
<v Speaker 3>Had three three quite interesting trips to Russia to try

541
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:29.440
<v Speaker 3>to negotiate purchase of to Russian ICBMs.

542
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:35.119
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and did they think you would evil intent?

543
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:37.200
<v Speaker 3>No, they just thought I was crazy.

544
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:42.519
<v Speaker 2>But I mean that's not good either if you're buying ICBMs,

545
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:46.319
<v Speaker 2>but minus the nuke, I mean I think that would

546
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:46.960
<v Speaker 2>have been a lot more.

547
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.960
<v Speaker 3>So you didn't talk, Luke, No, I mean I didn't.

548
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:54.119
<v Speaker 3>I got slightly got the feeling that that was on

549
00:29:54.160 --> 00:30:00.440
<v Speaker 3>the table if which which was a very alarming.

550
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:06.240
<v Speaker 2>But but yeah, that was that was those are very

551
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:12.759
<v Speaker 2>weird meetings with the Russian military and whatnot. I mean

552
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:14.279
<v Speaker 2>I think that they thought I was a bit crazy,

553
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:16.279
<v Speaker 2>but then they thought that they read about paypals.

554
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:17.039
<v Speaker 3>Okay, it was crazy.

555
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.319
<v Speaker 4>He's got money, he did something right.

556
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well and more importantly I could pay him right. Yes,

557
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.720
<v Speaker 2>So that's that's really I mean there. Yeah, it was

558
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:31.240
<v Speaker 2>remarkably capitalist. Was was my impression of the Russians.

559
00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:33.839
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, right, I have heard that before.

560
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:36.920
<v Speaker 1>So tell me how what was the turning point from

561
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:39.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, talking with the Russians and then deciding, Okay,

562
00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:41.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to do this, I'm going to set up

563
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:41.839
<v Speaker 1>a company.

564
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:43.359
<v Speaker 4>What was that turning point for you?

565
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:46.359
<v Speaker 3>Well, I guess I.

566
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:51.720
<v Speaker 2>Had I came conclusion that my initial premise was was wrong,

567
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.960
<v Speaker 2>that in fact, the there's there's a great deal of

568
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.440
<v Speaker 2>will uh you know that there there's there's not such

569
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:06.359
<v Speaker 2>a shortage, but people don't think there's a way, and

570
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.680
<v Speaker 2>and that if people thought there was there was a way,

571
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:11.680
<v Speaker 2>or at least something that wouldn't break the federal budget,

572
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:16.599
<v Speaker 2>then that then people would support it, which in retrospect

573
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:21.519
<v Speaker 2>I think is actually kind of obvious. Because the United

574
00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:23.079
<v Speaker 2>States is a distillation of.

575
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.759
<v Speaker 3>The human spirit of exploration. People came here from other places.

576
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:31.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's you know, there's no nation, there's no

577
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:33.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's no nation that that's more a nation.

578
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:36.039
<v Speaker 3>Of explorers in the United United States. But but people

579
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.200
<v Speaker 3>need to believe that it's possible. And it's that it's

580
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.400
<v Speaker 3>not you know, it's they're not to give up like

581
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:43.839
<v Speaker 3>healthcare or something important. You know, it's just it's gonna

582
00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:45.799
<v Speaker 3>be that that that's that's important.

583
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.759
<v Speaker 2>So so I thought, okay, well, then it's not a

584
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:50.759
<v Speaker 2>question of will, it's it's a question of showing that

585
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:54.960
<v Speaker 2>there's a way. And and the and I started reading

586
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:57.400
<v Speaker 2>quite a bit about rockets to try to understand why

587
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:02.160
<v Speaker 2>they're so so freaking expensive. You know, it's just something

588
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:06.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, where does the sixty million dollars go for

589
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:09.960
<v Speaker 2>the delta too? And that's subsequently, now delta two I

590
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:12.079
<v Speaker 2>think is one hundred, one hundred million dollars or something

591
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:17.440
<v Speaker 2>even some crazy number. And delta two is I mean,

592
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.599
<v Speaker 2>if that's a relatively small rocket. So if you go

593
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:22.359
<v Speaker 2>to like a really you know, one of the bigger rockets,

594
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:27.599
<v Speaker 2>it's anywhere from two hundred to four million dollars anyway,

595
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.359
<v Speaker 2>So so I came conclusion that there wasn't really a

596
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:34.319
<v Speaker 2>good reason for rockets to be so expensive, and and

597
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.279
<v Speaker 2>and that there could be a lot less and even

598
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:42.359
<v Speaker 2>in inexpendable format, they could be less and uh and

599
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:46.440
<v Speaker 2>and that in if one could make them reusable like airplanes,

600
00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:51.400
<v Speaker 2>then the cost of rocketree would would drop dramatically. Costs

601
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:55.119
<v Speaker 2>of space travel wuld drop dramatically because the the cost

602
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:58.519
<v Speaker 2>of the fuel was maybe anywhere from point to two

603
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:03.000
<v Speaker 2>point five percent of the cost of the rocket. You know,

604
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:04.559
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of like a plane. I mean, how much

605
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.680
<v Speaker 2>is the cost of the fuel and the plane versus

606
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.359
<v Speaker 2>the plane itself. It's at least a too or of

607
00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:13.880
<v Speaker 2>mag two difference. But nobody had really been able to

608
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:14.240
<v Speaker 2>make a.

609
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:18.599
<v Speaker 3>Reasonable rocket work so that that But so I thought,

610
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:20.720
<v Speaker 3>okay that if we can do that, then that would

611
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:24.519
<v Speaker 3>that would really be the key breakthrough for space travel, right,

612
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.799
<v Speaker 3>But you also said that therefore we have not succeeded

613
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:28.839
<v Speaker 3>point You've.

614
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:31.880
<v Speaker 1>Also said that failure was the most likely I would come.

615
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:34.519
<v Speaker 1>Can you talk about failure in that sense and in

616
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.720
<v Speaker 1>a broader sense of being an entrepreneur and innovator? Why

617
00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:40.279
<v Speaker 1>is failure so important?

618
00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:44.440
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, I think I think failure is bad.

619
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:45.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't think it's good.

620
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:50.720
<v Speaker 2>But if if something is important enough, then you you

621
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:54.119
<v Speaker 2>do it even though the risk of failure is high.

622
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:57.799
<v Speaker 2>And and so I think my advice if somebody once

623
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.400
<v Speaker 2>you start a company is they should bearn that the

624
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:03.119
<v Speaker 2>most likely outcome is is that it's not going to work,

625
00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:07.759
<v Speaker 2>and they should reconcile themselves to that strong possibility.

626
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:10.039
<v Speaker 3>And they should only do it if they feel that

627
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:14.079
<v Speaker 3>they're they're they're really compelled to do it, you know,

628
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:19.880
<v Speaker 3>because it's it's it's gonna The way starting company works

629
00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:22.480
<v Speaker 3>is like usually the beginning, it's the very beginning, it's

630
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:26.320
<v Speaker 3>kind of fun, and then it's really hellish for for

631
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:27.960
<v Speaker 3>a number of years.

632
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:29.920
<v Speaker 4>You're talked about chewing glass.

633
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's there's a friend of mine who's successful entrepreneur

634
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.000
<v Speaker 2>and started actually his career around the same time as

635
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:42.360
<v Speaker 2>I did. And he has a good, good, good phrase.

636
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:46.079
<v Speaker 2>Name is Billy. He said, yeah, you're starting a company

637
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.480
<v Speaker 2>is like eating glass and staring into the abyss. And

638
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:55.840
<v Speaker 2>and you agree with that generally true, Yeah, and and

639
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.639
<v Speaker 2>and and if you don't eat the glass, you're not

640
00:34:57.639 --> 00:34:58.559
<v Speaker 2>going to be successful.

641
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:04.639
<v Speaker 4>That's tough medicine. Medicine. So let's move along.

642
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.760
<v Speaker 1>We're going to get down into innovation and motivation shortly,

643
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:11.840
<v Speaker 1>but I want to just go through your whole business

644
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:17.039
<v Speaker 1>career first. So shortly after funding SpaceX, you then got

645
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:20.639
<v Speaker 1>interested in electric vehicles. And I understand you watched the

646
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:23.920
<v Speaker 1>vigils for the death of the EV one when they

647
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:28.400
<v Speaker 1>were all smashed. Talk about that and why you felt,

648
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:33.760
<v Speaker 1>even after founding SpaceX, I have to get involved with Tesla.

649
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:40.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I said, like myntioned electric vehicles goes back

650
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:44.199
<v Speaker 2>a long time too, you know, goes back twenty scene.

651
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:45.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly.

652
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:48.840
<v Speaker 2>And in fact, the original reason I came to Silking

653
00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:52.679
<v Speaker 2>Value was to work on electric vehicle energy storage technology.

654
00:35:54.639 --> 00:36:00.000
<v Speaker 2>And I thought that that the big car companies would

655
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.719
<v Speaker 2>developed electric cars because.

656
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:05.519
<v Speaker 3>Obviously the right move and and and and I thought.

657
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:10.880
<v Speaker 2>That was indicated when General Motives and uh TO announced

658
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:14.840
<v Speaker 2>their General Motives doing the e V one, the electric

659
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:19.760
<v Speaker 2>vehicle one Turner did the Electric GRABH for the original one,

660
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.400
<v Speaker 2>and they made those announcements and then and they prot

661
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:24.239
<v Speaker 2>those to market, and I thought, okay, well, this is

662
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:24.880
<v Speaker 2>this is great.

663
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:27.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we're gonna have electric cars.

664
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:30.119
<v Speaker 2>GM is gonna obviously do the EV two and three,

665
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:31.960
<v Speaker 2>and then you know, they just get keep.

666
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:35.559
<v Speaker 3>Getting better and everything would be cool and uh.

667
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:40.559
<v Speaker 2>And then when when California relaxed its regulations on electric cars,

668
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.039
<v Speaker 2>GM recalled all of the e V one'es uh and

669
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:49.559
<v Speaker 2>crushed them into little cubes, you know, which is seem

670
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:56.679
<v Speaker 2>kind of nutty. So in fact, uh, the people didn't

671
00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:00.400
<v Speaker 2>want their ev ones recalled, and in fact they tried,

672
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:02.760
<v Speaker 2>if they tried court orders to stop the cars from

673
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.480
<v Speaker 2>being recalled, they held a candle lit vigil.

674
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:11.280
<v Speaker 3>Okay, at the yard where the cars were crushed. I did,

675
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:12.280
<v Speaker 3>I did not.

676
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:17.360
<v Speaker 2>I did not, Well, certainly, I mean it's it's crazy

677
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 2>if I mean, when is the last time you heard

678
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:24.360
<v Speaker 2>about any company customers holding a candle lit vigil for

679
00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:25.599
<v Speaker 2>the demise of that that.

680
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:28.920
<v Speaker 3>Product, particularly a GM product.

681
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:35.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I mean, what bigger wake up call do

682
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.480
<v Speaker 2>you need? It's like, it's like, hello, the customers are

683
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:39.480
<v Speaker 2>really upset about this.

684
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:44.840
<v Speaker 3>They were really preferred if it didn't get recalled, so

685
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:46.679
<v Speaker 3>so that that that kind of blew my mind. So

686
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:48.039
<v Speaker 3>it was like wow, okay.

687
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:52.920
<v Speaker 2>And then and then we had the advent of lit

688
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:56.800
<v Speaker 2>them on batteries, which really helped helps the It makes

689
00:37:57.760 --> 00:37:59.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's that's one of the key things for

690
00:37:59.119 --> 00:37:59.840
<v Speaker 2>making electric cars.

691
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:01.679
<v Speaker 3>It's still nothing. And so.

692
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:07.199
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and three actually had lunch with one

693
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:09.039
<v Speaker 2>of the other co founders of the company, JB. Strabel,

694
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:13.360
<v Speaker 2>who was actually working I think on like a hydrogen

695
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:21.679
<v Speaker 2>aeroplane or something, and he mentioned to me the T

696
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:26.199
<v Speaker 2>zero car that was done by AC propulsion. A propulsion

697
00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:28.679
<v Speaker 2>I think consisted of guys, some of whom had actually

698
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.679
<v Speaker 2>been on the EV one program, and they took a

699
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:36.800
<v Speaker 2>gasoline sports car kind of a kit car, and outfitted

700
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:44.800
<v Speaker 2>it with with lithiumon batteries considered consumer grade cells, and

701
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:50.119
<v Speaker 2>they created a car which is which is essentially the

702
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:55.480
<v Speaker 2>pre coursor of the roadster. And and in fact it

703
00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:59.639
<v Speaker 2>had very similar specifications, so sub zero a sub four

704
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:03.440
<v Speaker 2>second sero to sixty miles an hour turn, fifty mile

705
00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:07.719
<v Speaker 2>range and also two seater sort of sports car. But

706
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:10.280
<v Speaker 2>it had but it was quite primitive. It didn't have

707
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:14.679
<v Speaker 2>a roof one thing at all. And in fact, I

708
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:18.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know if it had doors, but it didn't have

709
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:21.119
<v Speaker 2>any safety systems, no airbags, It wasn't home alligated, so

710
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:23.199
<v Speaker 2>you couldn't sell it.

711
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:25.840
<v Speaker 3>So in order to sell a car.

712
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:27.440
<v Speaker 2>In order to create a commercial version of the car,

713
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:31.320
<v Speaker 2>something that a manufacturer could produce and sell people, there

714
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:31.480
<v Speaker 2>was a.

715
00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:32.840
<v Speaker 3>Favoit of work that was required.

716
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:36.559
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, I kept trying to get AC Propulsion to

717
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:40.320
<v Speaker 2>commercialize the T zero and I said, look, I'm gonna

718
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:44.079
<v Speaker 2>I'll fund the whole effort. You know, you really need

719
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:47.320
<v Speaker 2>to do this, and they just they just sort of

720
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:48.239
<v Speaker 2>refused to do it.

721
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:51.800
<v Speaker 3>They didn't want to do it. They wanted to make.

722
00:39:51.639 --> 00:39:55.920
<v Speaker 2>A I think the it's what's that they want to

723
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:59.440
<v Speaker 2>make like an electric sign, which in principle sounds good,

724
00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:02.880
<v Speaker 2>except that would cost seventy five thousand dollars and nobody

725
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:08.400
<v Speaker 2>wants to buy seventy five thousand dollars on, and and

726
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:10.960
<v Speaker 2>the technology just was not ready that there was just

727
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:12.079
<v Speaker 2>no way to.

728
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:16.559
<v Speaker 3>Make a good value for money proposition.

729
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:21.920
<v Speaker 1>What was it that compelled you to say I have

730
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:24.960
<v Speaker 1>to be CEO here and lead this company? Why not say,

731
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:27.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'll help you JB get this get this ruling?

732
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:31.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, I really didn't want to be CEO of two

733
00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:35.800
<v Speaker 2>companies if I tried really hard not to be actually,

734
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:41.840
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, so anyway, so ACR Repulsion finally said Okay.

735
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:45.840
<v Speaker 2>I actually told ac Repulsion, look, if you're not going

736
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:47.679
<v Speaker 2>to do this, I'm going to create a company to

737
00:40:48.039 --> 00:40:50.840
<v Speaker 2>do this. And they said, well, there's some other guys

738
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:54.719
<v Speaker 2>who are also interested in doing that, and you guys

739
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:59.360
<v Speaker 2>should combine efforts and and create a company. And that's

740
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:06.440
<v Speaker 2>basically how Tails came together. And uh and then we

741
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:12.679
<v Speaker 2>had like a lot of drama and uh but I

742
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:16.159
<v Speaker 2>mean I had since I was the you know, I

743
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:19.000
<v Speaker 2>provided like ninety five percent of the money, so I

744
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:21.000
<v Speaker 2>could have been the CEO of from day one. But

745
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:26.079
<v Speaker 2>I really you know, that CEO of two startups at

746
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:30.199
<v Speaker 2>the same time was not appealing and.

747
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:30.920
<v Speaker 3>Shouldn't be a feling.

748
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.559
<v Speaker 2>By the way, if anyone's thinking that's a good idea,

749
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:33.760
<v Speaker 2>it's really terrible idea.

750
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:38.400
<v Speaker 1>But then again, you know, going back to your trajectory here,

751
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:41.199
<v Speaker 1>not only did you take ON two, you took on three.

752
00:41:41.719 --> 00:41:46.639
<v Speaker 1>You had an epiphany at Burning Man, I understand, and decided.

753
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:55.440
<v Speaker 3>Not necessarily what you should pursue, and you came up

754
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:56.159
<v Speaker 3>with the idea.

755
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's uh, well, you know, the solar is kind

756
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:04.800
<v Speaker 2>of part of the whole sustainable energy thing. So sustainable

757
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:08.559
<v Speaker 2>energy you have to have sustainable means of producing and

758
00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:13.719
<v Speaker 2>consuming energy. And so even if you have electric cars,

759
00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:16.079
<v Speaker 2>you have to have the other side of the equation, say,

760
00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:19.679
<v Speaker 2>how do you produce energy in a sustainable way? And

761
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.559
<v Speaker 2>I think solar is the obvious primary means of sustainable

762
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:24.480
<v Speaker 2>energy generation.

763
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:27.440
<v Speaker 3>In fact, the Earth is almost entirely sole power today.

764
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:32.800
<v Speaker 2>That the only reason we're not a frozen ice bowl

765
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.199
<v Speaker 2>at three degrees Calvin is because of the Sun. And

766
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:41.840
<v Speaker 2>the Sun is responsible for all precipitation, It's responsible for

767
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:43.920
<v Speaker 2>the vast majority of the ecosystem.

768
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:45.920
<v Speaker 3>Apart from sort of chemotrophs the bond of the ocean.

769
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:53.199
<v Speaker 2>So there's just a tiny amount of energy that people

770
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:54.800
<v Speaker 2>that people.

771
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:57.199
<v Speaker 3>Consume to power civilization.

772
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:59.400
<v Speaker 2>It's actually a very tiny amount of energy relative to

773
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:01.840
<v Speaker 2>the amount of nage that the Sun sends in our

774
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:06.719
<v Speaker 2>general direction. And so in order to deal with that,

775
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:09.159
<v Speaker 2>we couldn't in fact, how the entire world was still

776
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:10.199
<v Speaker 2>of power quite easily.

777
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:13.360
<v Speaker 3>This is maybe not super obvious to people, but so was.

778
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.119
<v Speaker 4>That the epiphany you had at Burning Man? Was it?

779
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:17.679
<v Speaker 3>I knew that long and long. I knew that in college,

780
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:18.400
<v Speaker 3>But what what.

781
00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:22.400
<v Speaker 1>Was the key vision that came to you at Burning Man?

782
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:25.079
<v Speaker 1>We all want to imagine.

783
00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:26.800
<v Speaker 4>There vision that.

784
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:32.760
<v Speaker 3>Uh no, it was it was more the the.

785
00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:38.800
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't say it was a particular perphony. It was

786
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:44.119
<v Speaker 2>more that I was at Burning Man with with with.

787
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:45.039
<v Speaker 3>My cousins or to my cousins.

788
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:51.039
<v Speaker 2>Uh, Peter, he are awesome guys, and they and they

789
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:52.880
<v Speaker 2>were sort of trying to think what should they do

790
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:55.199
<v Speaker 2>after there.

791
00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:57.280
<v Speaker 3>After their first startup.

792
00:43:57.320 --> 00:44:01.000
<v Speaker 2>So they did company called ever Dream, which did large

793
00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:03.800
<v Speaker 2>scale management of computers. So if you've got like sixty

794
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:05.880
<v Speaker 2>thousand computers, it's kind of hard to manage them. So

795
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:09.239
<v Speaker 2>they wrote they created software that enables companies to do that,

796
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and that company actually got sold to Dell.

797
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:16.360
<v Speaker 4>So they were looking for a new venture, looking for

798
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:17.079
<v Speaker 4>your ideas.

799
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, I wouldn't say the initially looking for my ideas,

800
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:20.639
<v Speaker 2>but I actually was trying to convince them that they

801
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.039
<v Speaker 2>should do solou and.

802
00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:27.119
<v Speaker 3>Because I just thought I just thought it was an.

803
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Area that needed people like them here, really good got entrepreneurs.

804
00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:40.599
<v Speaker 2>So and since I was like somewhat over committed, I thought, yeah,

805
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:42.679
<v Speaker 2>I thought well, and I said like, look, if if

806
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:46.960
<v Speaker 2>you guys will do a solo company, I'll find you

807
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:51.559
<v Speaker 2>fight all the funny and you know whatever, guidance, I can,

808
00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:54.840
<v Speaker 2>I will help, I can provide, I do that. And

809
00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:58.119
<v Speaker 2>that's and I thought it was really important that there'd

810
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:03.199
<v Speaker 2>be you know, good entrepreneurs like them in in sol

811
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:06.599
<v Speaker 2>solar because it just wasn't wasn't doing very well as

812
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 2>an industry. So and I thought people were kind of

813
00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:16.840
<v Speaker 2>focusing on not the they weren't focusing on the right problem.

814
00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:22.000
<v Speaker 2>The I already sort of thought that the the panel

815
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:25.239
<v Speaker 2>was the problem, but actually it's it's not. It's it's

816
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:27.760
<v Speaker 2>a problem, but it's not. It's not the it's not

817
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:33.320
<v Speaker 2>the most important problem. It's the and and the panel

818
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:35.559
<v Speaker 2>is somewhat commoditized at this point, so it's you know,

819
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:39.440
<v Speaker 2>making standard efficiency solar panels is about as hard as

820
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:41.880
<v Speaker 2>making drywall. It's really easy. In fact, that's the drivewall

821
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:47.039
<v Speaker 2>is probably harder and bit But what what is a

822
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:49.840
<v Speaker 2>thorny problem is trying to figure out how to get

823
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:55.119
<v Speaker 2>solar on tens of thousands, eventually hundreds of thousands of

824
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:55.679
<v Speaker 2>roof tops.

825
00:45:55.960 --> 00:45:57.360
<v Speaker 4>The logistics part.

826
00:45:57.880 --> 00:45:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's kind of like you've got to re

827
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:04.719
<v Speaker 2>roof millions of buildings, right, and then figure out how

828
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:08.079
<v Speaker 2>the great interconnects work and then manage all those systems. Like,

829
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:10.360
<v Speaker 2>so if you've got hundreds of thousands or maybe millions

830
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:14.440
<v Speaker 2>of systems, eventually you've got to manage all these distributed systems.

831
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:18.440
<v Speaker 2>You have this really complex distributed utility effectively, which I

832
00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:22.079
<v Speaker 2>think actually plays to to their strengths in creating their

833
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:26.760
<v Speaker 2>price strength in creating really scalable software for managing you know,

834
00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:30.440
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of thousands of computers in a distributed.

835
00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:34.639
<v Speaker 3>Fashion ice right, And that's that's kind of what they did.

836
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:36.079
<v Speaker 3>And then it's an awesome job.

837
00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:38.360
<v Speaker 2>It was just like I basically would show up at

838
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:40.159
<v Speaker 2>the board meetings to hear, what's the good.

839
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:42.239
<v Speaker 3>News this time? You know, it's like, really, you know,

840
00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:42.920
<v Speaker 3>we had like.

841
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Maybe a couple of bad news board meetings, well late

842
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:47.960
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and eight, there were some bad news board

843
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:51.639
<v Speaker 2>board meetings, but for the most part, apart from a

844
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:55.400
<v Speaker 2>few a few times when the macroeconomic conditions were really terrible,

845
00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:59.800
<v Speaker 2>they just did an amazing job with you know, almost

846
00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:00.559
<v Speaker 2>no help for me.

847
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:03.199
<v Speaker 4>So you've been able to leave in their good hands.

848
00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:07.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that is the vast majority of the credit

849
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:08.519
<v Speaker 2>for for success in that company.

850
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:09.159
<v Speaker 4>Awesome.

851
00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:11.599
<v Speaker 1>So I'd like to move on to innovation and motivation.

852
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.679
<v Speaker 1>There's been a lot of talk lately about the fact

853
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:18.320
<v Speaker 1>that innovation is leveling off. We're not making the dramatic

854
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.760
<v Speaker 1>increases or improvements and innovation like we did when the

855
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:22.800
<v Speaker 1>plane was invented.

856
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:23.920
<v Speaker 4>You do you agree with that?

857
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:26.320
<v Speaker 2>And No, I don't agree with that. I don't think

858
00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:31.719
<v Speaker 2>that's true. I think we've we've seen well, and I'm

859
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:34.400
<v Speaker 2>not sure what time period that is exactly, but we've

860
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:40.320
<v Speaker 2>seen huge improvements in the Internet and new new things.

861
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, in recent years, Twitter and Facebook

862
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:46.360
<v Speaker 2>being being pretty huge when people kind of thought the

863
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:52.159
<v Speaker 2>Internet was done. And you know, I think that there

864
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:54.559
<v Speaker 2>are some of the things that we're doing, like like

865
00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:56.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, electric cars or a new thing.

866
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:03.920
<v Speaker 3>And I do think this is pretty significant breakthroughs.

867
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:07.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, in genomics, we're getting better and better at

868
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:10.960
<v Speaker 2>decoding genomes and and being able to write genetics. I

869
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:13.480
<v Speaker 2>think that's going to be a huge, huge area. I

870
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:16.880
<v Speaker 2>think there's likely going to be some breakthroughs in artificial intelligence.

871
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:22.599
<v Speaker 2>And I suspect we will even see the flying car.

872
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:25.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, Is that is that going to be an

873
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:29.199
<v Speaker 1>ill and Musk production. No, you're gonna let someone else

874
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:29.440
<v Speaker 1>do that.

875
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:34.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Well, I think someone else. I think someone else

876
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:36.880
<v Speaker 3>is doing that, all right, Okay.

877
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:40.519
<v Speaker 1>That's another conversation. Do you feel the government is standing

878
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:41.880
<v Speaker 1>in the way of innovation at all?

879
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:45.280
<v Speaker 3>Well, sometimes the government.

880
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't think the government tends to stand the way

881
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:50.360
<v Speaker 2>of innovation, but sometimes it can overregulate industries to the

882
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:54.440
<v Speaker 2>point where innovation becomes very difficult, right, I mean in

883
00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:58.199
<v Speaker 2>the the order industry used to be a great hotbed

884
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:01.000
<v Speaker 2>of innovation at the beginning of the twentieth century, but

885
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:05.159
<v Speaker 2>but now there's so many regulations that are intended to

886
00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:09.840
<v Speaker 2>protect consumers. I mean, the body of regulation for cars

887
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:13.559
<v Speaker 2>could like full you know this room. It's just crazy

888
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:16.519
<v Speaker 2>how much regulation there is that down to like what

889
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:21.920
<v Speaker 2>the headlamps are supposed to be like, and the they

890
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:23.719
<v Speaker 2>even specify the use some of the elements of the

891
00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:27.119
<v Speaker 2>user in her face on the dashboard, which and some

892
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:31.800
<v Speaker 2>of these are completely anachronistic because they're they're relating back

893
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:33.880
<v Speaker 2>to the days when you had like a little light

894
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:38.199
<v Speaker 2>that would illuminate an image, so like we have to

895
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:41.960
<v Speaker 2>reserve space on the instrument panel of the models for

896
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:42.800
<v Speaker 2>where all of the.

897
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:46.320
<v Speaker 3>The indicators like that a car would have. You know,

898
00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:48.119
<v Speaker 3>you've got like these little lights like.

899
00:49:49.719 --> 00:49:50.079
<v Speaker 4>Or whatever.

900
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like all these little little things, there's like a

901
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:54.320
<v Speaker 2>whole bunch of them, and we can't have anything else

902
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:57.559
<v Speaker 2>in that space, like a, well, how would if we

903
00:49:57.639 --> 00:49:59.599
<v Speaker 2>have one space and render a different graphic.

904
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:02.320
<v Speaker 3>Oh no, because people are expecting to see him that space.

905
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:04.159
<v Speaker 3>Like nobody is expecting to see him that space.

906
00:50:06.199 --> 00:50:08.599
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so you feel you can argue with these regulations,

907
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:10.599
<v Speaker 4>you just have to Well you.

908
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:15.159
<v Speaker 3>Can argue with them, but not with great success, and

909
00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:17.800
<v Speaker 3>you can't actually get these things changed. But it takes ages.

910
00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:21.840
<v Speaker 3>Like one of the things we're trying.

911
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:24.719
<v Speaker 2>To get is like like why should you have side

912
00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:28.079
<v Speaker 2>mirrors if you can have say little video cameras, tiny

913
00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:32.400
<v Speaker 2>video cameras and have them display an image inside the car,

914
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:35.920
<v Speaker 2>But there are all these regulations saying you have to

915
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:38.360
<v Speaker 2>have side mers And I went and met with the

916
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Secretary of Transport, like can you change this regulation? Still

917
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:46.920
<v Speaker 2>nothing has happened. That was like two years ago, you know.

918
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:48.920
<v Speaker 4>So you're banging your head against a wall here in

919
00:50:48.920 --> 00:50:49.360
<v Speaker 4>a little bit.

920
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:51.360
<v Speaker 3>It's not easy to get these regulations changed.

921
00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:51.960
<v Speaker 4>So talking to.

922
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Government, President Obama is obviously trying to do what he can.

923
00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:59.039
<v Speaker 1>If you had five minutes with President Obama, what would

924
00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:04.880
<v Speaker 1>you advise him for one, stimulating the economy and entrepreneurship

925
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:08.320
<v Speaker 1>and creating jobs. Is there one thing that if you

926
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:12.079
<v Speaker 1>could successfully get through that would be a big stimulus

927
00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:12.559
<v Speaker 1>to think?

928
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:19.400
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think actually, I think the reality of being

929
00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:22.559
<v Speaker 3>president is that you're actually like the captain of a

930
00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:28.559
<v Speaker 3>very huge ship and have a small rudder because because obviously,

931
00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.440
<v Speaker 3>if I mean, if there was a button that a

932
00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:33.199
<v Speaker 3>president could push that said economic prosperity, you'd be like,

933
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:34.639
<v Speaker 3>they're hitting that button real fast.

934
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Imagine the speed of light by how fast they mentioned

935
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:40.039
<v Speaker 2>they press that button, because that would be that's called it,

936
00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:46.039
<v Speaker 2>like the reelection button. So so so I'm not sure

937
00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:51.000
<v Speaker 2>how much president can really do. But but I think

938
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:56.360
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, I'm generally a fan of like

939
00:51:56.639 --> 00:52:01.559
<v Speaker 2>minimal government interference in the economy, Like the government should

940
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:04.119
<v Speaker 2>be kind of a like the referee but not the player,

941
00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:07.239
<v Speaker 2>and there should be too many referees.

942
00:52:09.159 --> 00:52:09.719
<v Speaker 3>But but but.

943
00:52:12.199 --> 00:52:15.719
<v Speaker 2>There is an exception, which is when there's uh an

944
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:20.119
<v Speaker 2>unpriced externality, such as the CO two capacity of the

945
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:23.159
<v Speaker 2>oceans and atmosphere. So when you have an unpriced externality,

946
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:25.480
<v Speaker 2>then the normal market mechanisms do not work, and then

947
00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:29.480
<v Speaker 2>govern is government's role to to intervene in a way

948
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:33.079
<v Speaker 2>that's sensible. And the best word intervene is to is

949
00:52:33.159 --> 00:52:36.480
<v Speaker 2>to put it is to assign a proper price to

950
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:40.119
<v Speaker 2>whatever the common good is that's being consumed.

951
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:43.760
<v Speaker 4>And then I know you're saying there should be a

952
00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:44.519
<v Speaker 4>tax on gas.

953
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:46.159
<v Speaker 3>They should be attack on carbon.

954
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:49.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, if if the bad thing is carbon accumulation

955
00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:51.679
<v Speaker 2>in the atmosphere, then there needs to be at taxed

956
00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:55.199
<v Speaker 2>on on that, and then we can that will and

957
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:57.440
<v Speaker 2>then you can get rid of all subsidies and all

958
00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:02.960
<v Speaker 2>everything else. And it seems like logical that you should

959
00:53:03.039 --> 00:53:05.480
<v Speaker 2>tax things that are most likely to be bad rather

960
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.440
<v Speaker 2>than you know, like that's why we tax cigarettes and

961
00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:12.840
<v Speaker 2>alcohol because those those are probably bad for you. Certainly

962
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:22.280
<v Speaker 2>cigarettes are and so so yeah, so you want to

963
00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:24.079
<v Speaker 2>err on the side of taxing things that are probably

964
00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:27.320
<v Speaker 2>bad and and not tax things that are that are good.

965
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:32.079
<v Speaker 2>And so I think, given that there is a need

966
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:36.719
<v Speaker 2>to gather tax for the you know, to pay for

967
00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:40.400
<v Speaker 2>the federal government, we should shift the tax burden too too.

968
00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:44.679
<v Speaker 3>Bad things, and then adjust that that tax of that bad.

969
00:53:44.599 --> 00:53:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Thing according to whatever's going to result in the behavior

970
00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:50.840
<v Speaker 2>that we think is beneficial for the future. I mean,

971
00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:53.239
<v Speaker 2>I think currently that you know what we're doing right now,

972
00:53:53.320 --> 00:53:56.519
<v Speaker 2>which is mining and burning trillions of tons of hydrocarbons

973
00:53:56.920 --> 00:53:59.760
<v Speaker 2>that that used to be buried very deep underground, and

974
00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:01.599
<v Speaker 2>now we're seeking them in the atmosphere and running this

975
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:03.639
<v Speaker 2>crazy chemical experiment on the atmosphere.

976
00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:07.079
<v Speaker 3>And then you've got the oil and gas companies.

977
00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:11.239
<v Speaker 2>Which have ungodly amounts of money, and you can't expect

978
00:54:11.239 --> 00:54:12.639
<v Speaker 2>them to just roll over and die like.

979
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:16.639
<v Speaker 3>They don't do that. So actually what they're much preferred to.

980
00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Do is spend you know, enormous amounts of money lobbying

981
00:54:20.719 --> 00:54:23.880
<v Speaker 2>and running focused ad campaigns and that kind of thing.

982
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:28.400
<v Speaker 3>To preserve their situation. You know, it's a lot. It's

983
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:30.960
<v Speaker 3>a lot like tobacco companies in the old days. I mean,

984
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:31.719
<v Speaker 3>they used to run these.

985
00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:33.559
<v Speaker 2>Ads with doctors, like a guy with a doctor, you know,

986
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:37.440
<v Speaker 2>whether the pretending he's a doctor, you know, essentially applying

987
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:40.599
<v Speaker 2>that smoking is good for you, and like having pregnant

988
00:54:40.639 --> 00:54:42.400
<v Speaker 2>mothers on ads smoking.

989
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:46.400
<v Speaker 1>You have a message for the climate change skeptics and

990
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:50.800
<v Speaker 1>and the big oil people.

991
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:53.480
<v Speaker 3>Well supports climate change skeptic. I mean, like I'm you know,

992
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:54.880
<v Speaker 3>I like to.

993
00:54:55.159 --> 00:54:57.119
<v Speaker 2>I believe in the scientific method, and one should be

994
00:54:57.519 --> 00:54:59.800
<v Speaker 2>one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general.

995
00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:04.239
<v Speaker 2>And you know, if you're first things from a scientific standpoint,

996
00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:07.559
<v Speaker 2>you always look at things probabilistically, not definitively. And so

997
00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.079
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of times if somebody is a

998
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:11.920
<v Speaker 2>skeptic in the science community, what they're really saying is

999
00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:14.079
<v Speaker 2>that they're not sure that it's one hundred percent certain

1000
00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:16.079
<v Speaker 2>that that this is the case. But that's that's that's

1001
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:20.519
<v Speaker 2>not the point. The point is that is looking from

1002
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:23.119
<v Speaker 2>the other side, So what do you think the percentage

1003
00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:28.360
<v Speaker 2>chance is of this being catastrophic for some meaningful percentage

1004
00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:29.360
<v Speaker 2>of those population?

1005
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:33.679
<v Speaker 3>Is it greater than one percent? Is it even one percent?

1006
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:37.760
<v Speaker 3>If it is even one percent, why are we running

1007
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:38.400
<v Speaker 3>this experiment?

1008
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:41.559
<v Speaker 4>Called it a Russian roulette. We're playing Russian roulette with

1009
00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:42.119
<v Speaker 4>the atmosphere.

1010
00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:44.159
<v Speaker 2>We're playing Russian roulette. And then and and as each

1011
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:46.119
<v Speaker 2>year goes by, we're learning more rounds in the chamber.

1012
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:48.559
<v Speaker 3>It's not it's not wise.

1013
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:54.199
<v Speaker 2>So so that's and and what makes it super insane

1014
00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:57.760
<v Speaker 2>is that we're going to run out of oil anyway.

1015
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Like It's not like there's some infinite oil supply, We're

1016
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:04.039
<v Speaker 2>going to run out of it, so we know we

1017
00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:08.400
<v Speaker 2>have to get to a sustainable means of of transportation

1018
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:13.159
<v Speaker 2>no matter what, So why even run the experiment?

1019
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:15.599
<v Speaker 3>So Will's dumbest experiment.

1020
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:26.039
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so let's move on.

1021
00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:30.280
<v Speaker 1>To focus on Silicon Valley. Steve Jobs is it wasn't?

1022
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Is a wonderful Silicon Valley icon. Is he someone that

1023
00:56:33.880 --> 00:56:36.800
<v Speaker 1>you've admired and what have you learned from Steve's life

1024
00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:37.280
<v Speaker 1>and work?

1025
00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, certainly someone I've admired. Well, I did try to

1026
00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:45.199
<v Speaker 2>talk to him once at a party, and it was

1027
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:49.599
<v Speaker 2>super rude to me. But I don't think it was me.

1028
00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:52.960
<v Speaker 4>I think it's you know, I think you weren't the first, the.

1029
00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:58.679
<v Speaker 2>First, no, but but yeah, and I was actually there

1030
00:56:58.679 --> 00:57:00.239
<v Speaker 2>with like Larry Page's an old friend of them. I've

1031
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:02.559
<v Speaker 2>known Larry since before he got venture funding for Google.

1032
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:04.719
<v Speaker 2>And Larry was the guy that introduced me to Steve Jobs.

1033
00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:06.519
<v Speaker 2>So it's not as like I'm going like entugging on

1034
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:10.440
<v Speaker 2>his coat, like, you know, please talk to me. But

1035
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:14.960
<v Speaker 2>it was introduced by Larry Page. Is not bad, but

1036
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:17.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean he obviously he was an incredible guy and

1037
00:57:17.239 --> 00:57:21.719
<v Speaker 2>made fantastic products. That that, you know, and I know

1038
00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:25.199
<v Speaker 2>there was like a certain the guy had a certain

1039
00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:27.280
<v Speaker 2>magic about him, you know, just sort of that was

1040
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:29.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of that was really inspiring. So I mean, I

1041
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:31.199
<v Speaker 2>think that's that's really great.

1042
00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:33.960
<v Speaker 4>Is there is there that magic that you try and emulate?

1043
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:37.960
<v Speaker 3>Uh No, I think Steve Jobs is way cooler than

1044
00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:38.599
<v Speaker 3>than I am.

1045
00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:42.199
<v Speaker 4>So okay, So.

1046
00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:45.079
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to get inside your head a little bit

1047
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:47.599
<v Speaker 1>about you know, when you come up with an idea,

1048
00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:50.239
<v Speaker 1>do you doodle it, you know, in a pad of

1049
00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:53.760
<v Speaker 1>paper or do you get your iPad out and and

1050
00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:56.280
<v Speaker 1>take notes? I mean, when you come up with something new,

1051
00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:58.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, and new rocket design or whatever it is,

1052
00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:01.320
<v Speaker 1>how does that manifest itself?

1053
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:03.679
<v Speaker 4>Could we see you being creative?

1054
00:58:05.320 --> 00:58:07.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's more cliche, but it's happens a lot

1055
00:58:07.719 --> 00:58:11.039
<v Speaker 2>in the shower. I don't know what it is about showers.

1056
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Exactly. Get the camera like, no, I'm just I do

1057
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:24.000
<v Speaker 3>I just kind of stand there in the shower.

1058
00:58:25.639 --> 00:58:26.760
<v Speaker 4>Do you have long showers?

1059
00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:38.320
<v Speaker 3>Sounds wrong, but yeah I do. There's no running men

1060
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:44.199
<v Speaker 3>epiphanies if that those are those are huge. So yeah,

1061
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:47.519
<v Speaker 3>I think that's yeah.

1062
00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:51.239
<v Speaker 2>And and and then there there are sometimes like late

1063
00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:53.480
<v Speaker 2>at nights if I've been thinking about something, then I

1064
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:54.639
<v Speaker 2>can't sleep and I'll be.

1065
00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:57.480
<v Speaker 3>Up for you know, for several hours.

1066
00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:00.920
<v Speaker 2>I think about sort of sitting around the house and

1067
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:07.159
<v Speaker 2>thinking about things, and occasionally I'll sketch something or send

1068
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:08.840
<v Speaker 2>myself an email or something like that.

1069
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:10.519
<v Speaker 3>Right, so we have a.

1070
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:14.599
<v Speaker 4>Question from the audience. Who inspires you or do you

1071
00:59:14.679 --> 00:59:15.400
<v Speaker 4>have a mentor?

1072
00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:20.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, I don't have a mentor per se, although I

1073
00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:20.880
<v Speaker 3>try to.

1074
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:23.800
<v Speaker 2>I try to get feedback from as many people as possible,

1075
00:59:25.880 --> 00:59:28.440
<v Speaker 2>and so I have I have like friends, and I

1076
00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:31.079
<v Speaker 2>asked them to you know, what they think of this,

1077
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:35.760
<v Speaker 2>that and the other thing. And you know, as mentioned,

1078
00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:38.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, Larry's a good Larry Page is a good

1079
00:59:38.119 --> 00:59:43.079
<v Speaker 2>friend of mine, value his advice a lot, and have

1080
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.280
<v Speaker 2>many other good friends. And so so I think it's

1081
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:50.000
<v Speaker 2>good to solicit feedback, and particularly negative feedback actually because

1082
00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:52.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, obviously people aren't don't love the idea of

1083
00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:53.440
<v Speaker 2>giving you negative feedback.

1084
00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:56.800
<v Speaker 3>Let's listen. It's like some you know, on on on

1085
00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:58.280
<v Speaker 3>flogs they do that.

1086
00:59:59.599 --> 01:00:01.559
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Hi, do you deal with negative feedback?

1087
01:00:01.599 --> 01:00:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Because you've got some tough criticism, especially with SpaceX, you

1088
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:11.360
<v Speaker 1>had incumbents like Neil Armstrong even speaking out and saying

1089
01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:15.239
<v Speaker 1>this is wrong. We don't want you know, commercial companies

1090
01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:17.920
<v Speaker 1>in space. It's not a place for commerce.

1091
01:00:18.519 --> 01:00:19.760
<v Speaker 3>So how did you deal with that?

1092
01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:21.840
<v Speaker 4>And how do you deal with me there in general?

1093
01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:22.760
<v Speaker 4>Because you've had a lot.

1094
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was kind of troubling because you know, growing up,

1095
01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:28.599
<v Speaker 2>Neil Laanstow is kind of a hero, so it's like

1096
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:29.639
<v Speaker 2>this kind of sucks too.

1097
01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:33.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the back, that's a bit of a blow. Yeah.

1098
01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:37.159
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I mean I think in his case, he

1099
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:40.760
<v Speaker 2>was somewhat manipulated, you know, by other interests. I don't

1100
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:42.519
<v Speaker 2>think he caught White knew what he was saying in

1101
01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:44.440
<v Speaker 2>those in those congressional hearings.

1102
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:48.320
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, okay, and.

1103
01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Talk about you know, it's one thing to have these

1104
01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:55.679
<v Speaker 1>wonderful ideas in the shower of burning Man, but there's

1105
01:00:55.679 --> 01:01:00.519
<v Speaker 1>another thing to build, motivate and retain a team of

1106
01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:03.800
<v Speaker 1>excellent people. Can you talk about some tips and some

1107
01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:06.039
<v Speaker 1>things you've learned that obviously.

1108
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:06.400
<v Speaker 4>Work for you?

1109
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:10.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, I mean, think about a company. A company

1110
01:01:10.599 --> 01:01:12.880
<v Speaker 2>is a group of people that are organized to create

1111
01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:16.119
<v Speaker 2>a product or service. That's a sort of company is

1112
01:01:16.599 --> 01:01:20.599
<v Speaker 2>So in order to create such a thing, you have

1113
01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:25.440
<v Speaker 2>to convince others to join you in your effort, and

1114
01:01:26.599 --> 01:01:29.159
<v Speaker 2>and and so they have to be convinced that that

1115
01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:31.840
<v Speaker 2>that it's a sensible thing, that it's like that there's

1116
01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:34.639
<v Speaker 2>at least some some good, some reasonable chance of success,

1117
01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:38.559
<v Speaker 2>and if there is success, that the reward will be

1118
01:01:38.840 --> 01:01:40.320
<v Speaker 2>commensurate with the effort involved.

1119
01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:44.519
<v Speaker 3>And you know.

1120
01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:49.400
<v Speaker 2>So, So I think that's getting people to believe in

1121
01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:53.159
<v Speaker 2>what you're doing, uh, and in in you is is important.

1122
01:01:55.840 --> 01:01:59.239
<v Speaker 2>So in the beginning there will be there will be

1123
01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:02.639
<v Speaker 2>a few people who do who believe in you or

1124
01:02:03.159 --> 01:02:06.800
<v Speaker 2>what you're doing. And but then over time, as you

1125
01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:10.679
<v Speaker 2>may progress, that the evidence will build and more and

1126
01:02:10.719 --> 01:02:14.079
<v Speaker 2>more people will believe in what you're doing. So I

1127
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:16.519
<v Speaker 2>think it's a good idea when creating a company too,

1128
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:21.800
<v Speaker 2>to create a tab a demonstration or you know, if

1129
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:24.639
<v Speaker 2>it's a product, to have like a good mackup, or

1130
01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:27.039
<v Speaker 2>if it's even if it's if it's software, to have

1131
01:02:27.159 --> 01:02:30.079
<v Speaker 2>good demo ware or to be able to sketch something

1132
01:02:30.199 --> 01:02:33.519
<v Speaker 2>so people can really envision what it's about. Like that,

1133
01:02:33.639 --> 01:02:35.840
<v Speaker 2>that's try to get to that point as soon as

1134
01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:39.599
<v Speaker 2>possible and then iterate to make it as as real

1135
01:02:39.639 --> 01:02:41.119
<v Speaker 2>as possible as fast as possible.

1136
01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:46.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, if that makes sense. Good.

1137
01:02:46.159 --> 01:02:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So you're running your CEO of two companies, your

1138
01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:52.119
<v Speaker 1>chairman of Solar City, talk about time management.

1139
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:53.719
<v Speaker 4>How on earth do you do this?

1140
01:02:55.880 --> 01:02:56.039
<v Speaker 3>Well?

1141
01:02:56.079 --> 01:02:56.960
<v Speaker 4>Do you get any sleep?

1142
01:02:59.039 --> 01:02:59.400
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes?

1143
01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Not enough sleep is really great because because if I

1144
01:03:03.320 --> 01:03:04.639
<v Speaker 2>find if I don't get enough sleep.

1145
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:08.599
<v Speaker 3>Then I'm quite grumpy. I mean, obviously I think most

1146
01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:09.199
<v Speaker 3>people that way.

1147
01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:13.760
<v Speaker 2>And and also like I try to sort of figure

1148
01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:16.599
<v Speaker 2>out what's the right amount of sleep because I found

1149
01:03:16.639 --> 01:03:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I could have I could drop at a certain threshold

1150
01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:21.920
<v Speaker 2>a sleep and although I'd be awake more hours and

1151
01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:24.880
<v Speaker 2>I could sustain it, I would get less done because.

1152
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:29.000
<v Speaker 3>Mental acuity would be affected.

1153
01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:32.679
<v Speaker 2>So I found generally the right number for me is

1154
01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:35.199
<v Speaker 2>around six to six and a half hours on average

1155
01:03:35.239 --> 01:03:35.599
<v Speaker 2>for night.

1156
01:03:36.760 --> 01:03:40.440
<v Speaker 4>That's not too bad. And any other tips on average?

1157
01:03:41.199 --> 01:03:45.599
<v Speaker 1>Any other tips on just managing to run two companies simultaneously.

1158
01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:47.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, do you do you find I mean, I

1159
01:03:47.480 --> 01:03:49.840
<v Speaker 1>know you're up here on Monday Tuesday? Is it all

1160
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:53.679
<v Speaker 1>Tesla when you're up in Silicon Valley and all SpaceX

1161
01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:54.960
<v Speaker 1>Wednesday Thursday.

1162
01:03:56.599 --> 01:03:58.320
<v Speaker 3>Having a sort of.

1163
01:04:00.159 --> 01:04:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Having a smartphone is incredibly helpful because that means you

1164
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:05.800
<v Speaker 2>can do email during inter social periods like if you're.

1165
01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:07.559
<v Speaker 3>In a car, you're walking in the bathroom, everywhere.

1166
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:13.559
<v Speaker 2>You can do email practically when you're awake, and so

1167
01:04:13.840 --> 01:04:17.480
<v Speaker 2>that's really helpful to have email for SpaceX and Tesla

1168
01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:19.400
<v Speaker 2>integrated on my phone.

1169
01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:26.679
<v Speaker 3>And then and then interest, you have to apply a

1170
01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:29.840
<v Speaker 3>lot of hours to actual working, actually working. So the

1171
01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:31.639
<v Speaker 3>way I generally do it is I'll be.

1172
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Working at SpaceX on Monday and then Monday night, flight

1173
01:04:38.119 --> 01:04:44.000
<v Speaker 2>to the area, spend Tuesday and Wednesday at the Barrier,

1174
01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:48.400
<v Speaker 2>then at Tesla, and then fly back on Wednesday night, spend.

1175
01:04:48.159 --> 01:04:50.480
<v Speaker 3>Thursday and Friday at SpaceX.

1176
01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:54.719
<v Speaker 2>In the last several months, then I would fly back

1177
01:04:54.800 --> 01:04:58.360
<v Speaker 2>here on a Saturday and either spend Saturday and Sunday

1178
01:04:58.639 --> 01:05:04.000
<v Speaker 2>at Tesla or spend Saturday at Tesla and Sunday at SpaceX.

1179
01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:07.960
<v Speaker 4>And where and where do the boys fit in? You

1180
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:08.920
<v Speaker 4>have five sons?

1181
01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:10.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1182
01:05:11.079 --> 01:05:13.039
<v Speaker 4>What did they tag along with dad on some of these?

1183
01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:15.199
<v Speaker 3>They? I do drag them along in a lot of things.

1184
01:05:15.239 --> 01:05:18.679
<v Speaker 3>Actually they're remarkably unimpressed by.

1185
01:05:21.519 --> 01:05:23.360
<v Speaker 2>I wish they would be sort of more interested, But

1186
01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:25.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean they're only the twins are eight in the

1187
01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:28.719
<v Speaker 2>triplets for six, so maybe they'll get more more interested later.

1188
01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:31.320
<v Speaker 1>But do you see one day grooming one of them

1189
01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:34.639
<v Speaker 1>or several of them to take over your companies?

1190
01:05:35.599 --> 01:05:38.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, I think if if they're inclined to,

1191
01:05:39.639 --> 01:05:41.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if they're really interested in working at Tesla

1192
01:05:41.840 --> 01:05:42.880
<v Speaker 2>or SpaceX.

1193
01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:44.760
<v Speaker 3>Then I, you know, help them do that.

1194
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:49.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure i'd want to necessarily try to insert

1195
01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:51.760
<v Speaker 2>them into the CEO role at some point.

1196
01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:52.079
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1197
01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:56.360
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of like if if if the rest of

1198
01:05:56.360 --> 01:05:59.000
<v Speaker 2>the team and the board kind of felt that they

1199
01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:01.400
<v Speaker 2>were the right person, then that would be that would

1200
01:06:01.400 --> 01:06:05.239
<v Speaker 2>be fine. But I wouldn't want people to feel like

1201
01:06:05.480 --> 01:06:09.679
<v Speaker 2>I kind of, you know, installed you know, my kid there,

1202
01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:12.039
<v Speaker 2>And I don't think that would be good for either

1203
01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:19.360
<v Speaker 2>the companies or the kid, really, but I have I

1204
01:06:20.199 --> 01:06:21.840
<v Speaker 2>was actually at more point of a school thought that,

1205
01:06:23.800 --> 01:06:25.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's best to give away kind of ninety

1206
01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:29.280
<v Speaker 2>nine percent or more of one's assets, kind of like

1207
01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:30.800
<v Speaker 2>the Buffet school of thought.

1208
01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:34.880
<v Speaker 3>And I'm still mostly of that incline in that direction.

1209
01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:38.880
<v Speaker 2>But after seeing what happened with Ford and GM and Chrysler,

1210
01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:43.360
<v Speaker 2>where GM and Chrysler went went bankrupt but Ford did not,

1211
01:06:43.719 --> 01:06:47.239
<v Speaker 2>and Ford seemed to make better long term choices than

1212
01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:50.199
<v Speaker 2>the other two companies, and that's in part because of

1213
01:06:50.239 --> 01:06:53.280
<v Speaker 2>the influence of the Ford family. And I thought, well, okay,

1214
01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:57.800
<v Speaker 2>there may be some merit in having some longer term

1215
01:06:57.880 --> 01:06:59.800
<v Speaker 2>family ownership, at least at least a portion of it.

1216
01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:04.639
<v Speaker 2>So it's it acts as a positive influence. Uh, I mean,

1217
01:07:04.840 --> 01:07:06.960
<v Speaker 2>this is still something I'm thinking about, but acting as

1218
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:09.159
<v Speaker 2>a positive influence in the long terms that the company

1219
01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:10.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of does.

1220
01:07:10.760 --> 01:07:15.320
<v Speaker 3>There's proper long term things. And like I'm you know,

1221
01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:18.320
<v Speaker 3>look at what happened also in Silicon Valley with with

1222
01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:22.440
<v Speaker 3>HP and I think it's quite quite quite sad, and

1223
01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:26.800
<v Speaker 3>and that that that to some degrees because there was.

1224
01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Much diminished, uh, influenced by the Hewlett and Packard families.

1225
01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:39.960
<v Speaker 2>I think they should have prevailed in in their you

1226
01:07:40.039 --> 01:07:42.880
<v Speaker 2>know where they were opposed to the merger that took

1227
01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:45.519
<v Speaker 2>place at one point, and I think they were right.

1228
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:49.960
<v Speaker 4>Actually, I'm keeping and looking to the future for SpaceX.

1229
01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:52.039
<v Speaker 4>Is there an I P O plan for this year?

1230
01:07:52.599 --> 01:07:57.119
<v Speaker 3>No, there's no idea of plan. Let's say, running a

1231
01:07:57.159 --> 01:08:01.800
<v Speaker 3>public company does does have a strong so you're not

1232
01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:02.440
<v Speaker 3>in a hurry.

1233
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:09.199
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean, in the case of Tesla and SpaceX,

1234
01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:14.239
<v Speaker 2>we had to raise capital, and and we had kind

1235
01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:17.159
<v Speaker 2>of complex equity structure that needed to be resolved by

1236
01:08:17.640 --> 01:08:23.279
<v Speaker 2>by going public, and and so so I thought we

1237
01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:25.359
<v Speaker 2>kind of needed to do that in those two cases.

1238
01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:28.119
<v Speaker 2>We don't have to do that in SpaceX. I think

1239
01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:30.920
<v Speaker 2>there's a good chance well, at some point in the future.

1240
01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:36.199
<v Speaker 2>But but SpaceX's objectives are super long term, and the

1241
01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:39.760
<v Speaker 2>market is is not. So I'm a bit worried that

1242
01:08:39.800 --> 01:08:41.920
<v Speaker 2>if we did go public, certainly if we're in public

1243
01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:46.359
<v Speaker 2>too soon, that that market pressure would force us to

1244
01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:50.479
<v Speaker 2>do a short term things and abandoned kind of long

1245
01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:51.199
<v Speaker 2>term projects.

1246
01:08:52.720 --> 01:08:54.119
<v Speaker 3>Right, very long term.

1247
01:08:54.359 --> 01:08:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that's an important one. So you do have other

1248
01:08:56.880 --> 01:08:59.720
<v Speaker 1>projects on the back burner. You've talked about the hyper loop,

1249
01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:04.399
<v Speaker 1>a way of getting people from downtown LA to downtown

1250
01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:07.000
<v Speaker 1>San Francisco on under half an hour, and the electric

1251
01:09:07.159 --> 01:09:11.560
<v Speaker 1>supersonic airplane. Yeah, which of those two are bubbling up

1252
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:14.199
<v Speaker 1>that we might hear more about in their future.

1253
01:09:14.800 --> 01:09:17.399
<v Speaker 3>Well, I did promise that I'd.

1254
01:09:18.680 --> 01:09:22.760
<v Speaker 2>Do some paper on the on the hyperloop idea, and

1255
01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:26.039
<v Speaker 2>things got a little a little hectic towards the end

1256
01:09:26.119 --> 01:09:30.000
<v Speaker 2>last year because it had I had these I committed

1257
01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:33.000
<v Speaker 2>to to make these milestones at Tesla to to the

1258
01:09:33.079 --> 01:09:37.560
<v Speaker 2>public markets, and I had to stay true to that obligation,

1259
01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:43.000
<v Speaker 2>which required just just an insane level of work and attention.

1260
01:09:44.479 --> 01:09:44.880
<v Speaker 3>And uh.

1261
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:46.760
<v Speaker 2>And then we also had the Solar City i PO,

1262
01:09:47.239 --> 01:09:50.399
<v Speaker 2>which was a very difficult i PO to get done.

1263
01:09:51.319 --> 01:09:54.039
<v Speaker 2>And that IPIO occurred just by the skin of its teeth,

1264
01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:56.520
<v Speaker 2>and there was so so such a tough one.

1265
01:09:56.720 --> 01:09:58.760
<v Speaker 4>We you just determined it had to be in December.

1266
01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:05.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, if it wasn't in December, it would mean pushing

1267
01:10:05.119 --> 01:10:10.680
<v Speaker 2>it out, you know, quite a bit. And and the

1268
01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:12.520
<v Speaker 2>problem is that we'd already pushed it out quite a bit.

1269
01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:14.079
<v Speaker 2>So if we didn't go public, we'd have to do

1270
01:10:14.119 --> 01:10:14.760
<v Speaker 2>a private.

1271
01:10:14.600 --> 01:10:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Round and then and it just the whole thing wouldn't

1272
01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:21.920
<v Speaker 3>feel right. You know. It's like you're sitting at the

1273
01:10:22.199 --> 01:10:25.439
<v Speaker 3>it's like your spirit, you know, at the at the altar,

1274
01:10:25.720 --> 01:10:28.079
<v Speaker 3>and you don't do the do the wedding.

1275
01:10:28.119 --> 01:10:32.159
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's a bit awkward, to say the least.

1276
01:10:33.399 --> 01:10:35.800
<v Speaker 2>So we really needed, we really needed to do it.

1277
01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:39.680
<v Speaker 2>And and and I think if we hadn't done if

1278
01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:41.199
<v Speaker 2>you would have looked at it as a failure, and

1279
01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:44.600
<v Speaker 2>it would have been good because there's just been too

1280
01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:47.239
<v Speaker 2>many failures in the solar or too many not enough

1281
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:48.880
<v Speaker 2>success let's say in the solar arena.

1282
01:10:49.279 --> 01:10:51.520
<v Speaker 3>They needed to be sort of, we need to choke

1283
01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:52.319
<v Speaker 3>up with success and.

1284
01:10:52.680 --> 01:10:56.279
<v Speaker 4>A rare piece of sunshine for the solar ironically, for.

1285
01:10:56.279 --> 01:10:57.800
<v Speaker 3>A solar industry does not have a lot of that.

1286
01:10:58.319 --> 01:11:01.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes, so is time on for only for the last question.

1287
01:11:01.640 --> 01:11:03.600
<v Speaker 1>You've come a long way since you were that six

1288
01:11:04.079 --> 01:11:08.640
<v Speaker 1>year old little boy breaking the rules. You turn forty

1289
01:11:08.680 --> 01:11:12.199
<v Speaker 1>two this year, right, what is on the cards? Or

1290
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:14.960
<v Speaker 1>do you where do you see yourself in ten years time,

1291
01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:18.439
<v Speaker 1>twenty years time, forty years time? Because you famously said

1292
01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:22.319
<v Speaker 1>you want to die on Mars just not unimpact.

1293
01:11:21.920 --> 01:11:25.760
<v Speaker 3>Right exactly?

1294
01:11:26.479 --> 01:11:27.640
<v Speaker 4>Tell us about that dream?

1295
01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:33.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I actually ask by journalists do you want

1296
01:11:33.359 --> 01:11:35.479
<v Speaker 2>to die on Wis and I said yes, but wait,

1297
01:11:36.039 --> 01:11:37.279
<v Speaker 2>no impact just too clear.

1298
01:11:37.920 --> 01:11:46.520
<v Speaker 3>This is that's one of the possibilities. So yeah, so, uh,

1299
01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:47.880
<v Speaker 3>I guess.

1300
01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:51.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean I'd like to be able to go to

1301
01:11:51.359 --> 01:11:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Mars while I'm so able to manage the journey regionally.

1302
01:11:56.760 --> 01:11:58.479
<v Speaker 3>Well, so I think, like, I don't have to be

1303
01:11:58.520 --> 01:11:59.920
<v Speaker 3>like seventy five and go to Mas.

1304
01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:04.479
<v Speaker 4>You don't take your zimmer frame with you, right, you know, it.

1305
01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Could be, at least in the beginning, could be, you know,

1306
01:12:07.399 --> 01:12:11.680
<v Speaker 2>mildly arduous. So I wanted to, I'd like to, I'd

1307
01:12:11.720 --> 01:12:12.199
<v Speaker 2>like to get there.

1308
01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:16.439
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I mean, ideally in my fifties that

1309
01:12:16.439 --> 01:12:18.039
<v Speaker 3>would be. That'll be kind of cool.

1310
01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:20.800
<v Speaker 4>So you see that happening, and then well.

1311
01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:23.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I aspire to make that happen. And I

1312
01:12:24.079 --> 01:12:30.199
<v Speaker 2>can see the potential for that happening. And I'm not

1313
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:33.880
<v Speaker 2>saying it will happen, but I think it can happen.

1314
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I'll try to make it happen, right, ladies and gentlemen,