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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I heard a wonderful story of when you

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were six years old and you started breaking the rules

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even then. So you were six years old and you

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were invited by your cousin to a birthday party, but

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there was only there were two problems with that. One

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you were grounded, and two it was on the other

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side of town. So can you explain, tell, tell the

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audience how you got there?

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, I mean this was when I was six,

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so the memory is a little fuzzy at this point.

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But as I recall, yeah, I was grounded for some reason.

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I don't know why, but I think I felt that

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was unjust and and I really wanted to go to

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this party. My cousin's party, who was five, you know,

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is a kid's party. So I at first I was

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going to take my bike. But then and I told

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my mom this, which is a mistake, and she's she

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told me some story about how you needed a license

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for a bike and the police would stop me. So

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I wasn't harmstead sure if she was that was true

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or not, but I thought i'd better walk just in case.

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So yeah, just I sort of thought I knew the way,

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but it was clear across town. So I don't know

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it was ten or twelve miles away. It's really really

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quite far further than I realized, actually, And so I

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just started walking to my cousin's house and he took

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me about four hours. And just as my mom was

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leaving that party with my brother and sister, she saw

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me walking down the road and freaked out. And then

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I saw I saw she saw me. So I then

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sprint into my cousin's house and I was just about

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two blocks away, and then climbed a tree and refused

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to come down.

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Speaker 1: So the first of many rule briefing adventurest mask. So

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by the time you were twelve, you're already an entrepreneur

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and making a profit. I understand you earned five hundred

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dollars equivalent and rand for creating a video game. Can

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you tell us about that and what the inspiration wash?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, So I when I was about ten, I

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walked into a computer store in South Africa and saw

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an actual computer. I previously had some some early sort

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of precursors to to the Atari system, and then I

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got the Atari system, which I'm sure a lot of

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people here have played. And and but then so you

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can actually have a computer where you can make your

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own games. And it was a Commodore VIC twenty. So

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I was the first computer I bought, and I got

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some books on how to teach yourself programming, and.

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Speaker 3: This was like the coolest thing I'd ever seen.

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Speaker 2: So I was just like, this is super awesome, and

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uh so start programming games and and then selling games

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in order to actually buy more games. So a bit

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a bit of a circular thing. So and more games

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and better computers and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 4: Right, So the money wasn't the end goal for you.

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It was more a means to an end.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, basically I'd spend money on yeah, better, better computers

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and dungeons and Dragons, modules and things like that, nerd

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Master three thousand, basically.

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Speaker 1: So I understand at that time you were heavily into comics.

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Speaker 4: I'm curious to know. Did you love iron Man, the

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comic Iron iron Man?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Did you ever imagine that you would be the inspiration

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for the movie version?

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Speaker 3: I did not? That was that was that was pretty

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That was pretty much. I would say Zerups, I would

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have said, zerups, and.

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Speaker 4: Chance, what kind of kid? Were you? Kid?

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Speaker 1: You can you look back and see yourself where you

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Were you a bit of a lunar kid bookie?

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Speaker 3: I certainly I wasn't that much of a loaner, at

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least not willingly so.

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Speaker 2: But but I certainly was quite I was very very bookish.

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I was reading all the time. So I was either reading,

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working on my computer, reading comics, playing Dungeon Dragons, that

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kind of thing.

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Speaker 4: I understand.

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Speaker 1: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, that wonderful book by Douglas Adams.

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Speaker 4: That was a that was a key book for you.

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What was it about that book that that fired your imagination?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So I guess when I was in the around twelve

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or thirteen, a head company existential crisis, and I was

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reading various books on trying to figure out the meaning

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of life and or like what does it all mean?

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Because it's seeming quite meaningless.

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Speaker 3: And then.

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Speaker 2: We haven't have like some books by Nietzs and Schopenhauer

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in the house, which you should not read at age

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fourteen is bad, it's really negative. So so, but but

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then I read the Hitchhack's Guy the Galaxy, which was

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like quite positive, I think, and and it sort of

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highlighted the an important point, which is that a lot

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of times the question is harder than the answer, and

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if you can properly phrase the question, then the answer

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is the easy part.

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Speaker 3: And so.

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Speaker 2: The if to the agree that we can better understand

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the universe, then we better know what questions to ask.

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And then whatever the question is that most approx approximates,

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what's the meaning of life? You know that that's that's

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the question we could ultimately get closer to understanding. And

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so I thought, well, to the agree that we can

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expand the scope and scale of consciousness and knowledge human knowledge,

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then that would be a good thing.

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Speaker 4: Wow, So you're having these deep thoughts of what age

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ten fourteen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of in the puberty, I guess there's right,

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thirteen thirteen through fifteen probably the most traumatic years.

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Speaker 1: And so by the time you were seventeen, were you

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were ready? You were actually left right? I assume you

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hatched the plan earlier when you were around fifty fourteen fifteen.

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Speaker 2: I didn't hatch the plan earlier. Actually I tried to

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hatch several plans which they did not hatch.

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Speaker 1: But by seventeen you were on a plane from South Africa.

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You had enough of South Africa, you were ready to

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seek new pastures.

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Speaker 4: Now, why was.

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Speaker 1: It the United States was your destination? Why not Europe

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or somewhere else in the world.

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Speaker 2: Well, just whenever I'd read about cool technology, you would

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tend to be in the United States, you know, or

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more broadly North America or including Canada. So I kind

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of wanted to be where the cutting edge of technic

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algi was.

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Speaker 3: And of course within the.

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Speaker 2: United States, Silicon Valley is is the it is where

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the heart of things is. So although the time I

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didn't know where to looking value wise, it sounded like

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some mythical place. So yes, I wanted to come to

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the to the US. I try to convince my my

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mother or father, who were divorced, if either one of

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them would move.

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Speaker 3: To the United States, then I could then I could

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get there.

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Speaker 2: At one point I convinced my father, but then he

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renegged unfortunately, but you.

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Speaker 4: Had him convinced and then he changed.

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Speaker 3: You did say yes, and then and then he changed

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his mind. Why, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I guess he was sort of he was fairly established.

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He's an engineer, and he's sort of established in South Africa.

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Didn't want to have to go through that again in

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another country, right, So you got.

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Speaker 4: On that plane all by yourself at seventeen.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, so I actually got My mother was born

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in Canada, and actually her father was a American, but

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unfortunately she didn't get her American citizenship, so then that

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broke the link and I couldn't get my American citizenship.

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But she was born in Canada, so I could get

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I actually pulled up the forms for her and got

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her Canadian passport and me too. And then as soon

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as within three weeks of my getting my Canadian passport,

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I was in Canada, right.

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Speaker 1: And then you ended up at University of Pennsylvania. Yeah,

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I was in physics and business.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was in Canada for a few years

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at Queen's University, got a scholarship to go down to

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University of Pennsylvania because one of the downsides of coming

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to University of North America was that my parents said

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they would not pay for college if it was or

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my father said he would not pay for college unless

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it was in South Africa. So it was either so

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I could have free college in Sotoca or find some

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way to pay it here. And fortunately I got a

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scholarship at Yupan and and so did did he business

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underdual undergraduate business and at Upaen Wharton, And it.

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Speaker 1: Was there that you came up with this idea of

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three main areas that you felt were most important to humanity.

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Can you describe how you came upon them? Was it

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just one day or the flash of inspiration? These are

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the three areas that are important and I want to

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concentrate on or how did that? How did that inspiration

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come to you?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 2: I think I was thinking about it for a couple

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of years, and during sort of freshman and sophomore year

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at Queens and then also at Yupan, and I was

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trying to think what would most influence the future?

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Speaker 3: Uh, you know, were the problems that that we have

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to solve?

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Speaker 2: And and I actually talked a lot to friends and

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my housemates and that kind of thing, and dates, which

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is not maybe not the best thing. Yeah, I actually

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met met a woman at I dated briefly in college

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even now it works at Scientific American as a writer.

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And uh and and she she related that anecdote that

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uh we were on a date.

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Speaker 3: I was all I was talking about was electric cars.

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That was not a bit a winning conversation.

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Speaker 4: So it was a bit of a monologue.

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Speaker 3: Was it? Yeah, she said, she said.

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Speaker 2: The first question I asked her was do you ever

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think about electric cars?

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Speaker 4: So you'll learn from that. That wasn't the best shot

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out life.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't wasn't great. It has recently it's been more effective.

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Speaker 1: There you go, that's wonderful. Well, we'll get on to

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Tesla soon, but I want to I want to go

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from from University of Pennsylvania. You ended up in Silicon

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Valley and you've described Silicon Valley as Darwinian.

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Speaker 4: Can you talk about what it.

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Speaker 3: Was the most positive sense? Really?

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Speaker 1: Can you elaborate on what that means and why it

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had to be Silicon Valley? What what drew you to

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Silicon Valley?

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Speaker 2: Well, uh, well, I was at I was at penn

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and there was a professor who who was chairman of

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a company in Silicon Valley that was working on advanced

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capacitors for use in electric cars, potentially for use in

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electric cars. As it turns out there they're way too expensive.

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But I thought, well, this is this is really awesome.

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Because then I asked if I could get a summer

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job because it was in Silicon Valley and working on

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technology for electric cars. I thought well, that's that's pretty

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much as good as it gets. So I got a

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summer job here was in Los Gatos, actually at Pinnacle

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Research doing electrolytic electric pastors, which were but they had

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the problem was that they used a ruthenium tanglum marks

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side and there was I think only a few tons

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of ruthenium mind in the world, so not very scalable,

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and that you know, they'd sell it to you by

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the sort of millogram, so you know that's you know,

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there's a problem.

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Speaker 3: But I had a pretty high energy density.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of roughly equivalent to a lad Asto battery,

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which for a capacitor is huge.

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Speaker 4: But you ended up then after that at Stanford.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So then I thought, well, Stanford is in Silicon Valley,

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sort of epicenter, and so that's where I wanted to

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come to Stanford, Berkeley and Stanford sort of Sunnier.

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Speaker 3: So I like to that's going.

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Speaker 1: I knew, I understand you were at Stanford University for

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a whole two days before you decided, no, it's time

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I'm going to do my first startup.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I figured, well, so this is a summer of ninety

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five and and I've been working on some Internet software.

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So because the three things I though would depict the

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world with internet, sustainable energy, and uh space exploration, making

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life multiplanetary so the but but on the Internet thing,

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I just couldn't figure out how to make enough money

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to feed myself, you know, because like if I didn't

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make make money, then I would like run out of

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food and eye. So that was that was not good.

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Uh yeah, literally, So whereas you know, if I was

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a student, then I could be teaching assistant and do

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do various things and and and do research on electricicle

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tech technologies.

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Speaker 3: That that was my default plan.

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Speaker 2: But but then I also thought that if I if

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I did a PhD a Stanford, then I could I

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would spend several years watching the Internet go through this

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incredibly rapid growth base, and that would be really difficult

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to handle. Like it's like you really wanted to be

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doing something.

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Speaker 3: Growing.

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Speaker 2: It sort of really seemed like things were going to

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take off. Although nobody had made any money on the

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Internet at the time. In ninety five, there was really

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nobody was making any money on the Internet, and in fact,

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even on sand Hill Road, people like watch the Internet.

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Speaker 3: They were amazingly.

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Speaker 2: When we try to get funding for a company, and

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I think it was November or something of ninety five

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there about October November. More than half of the bench

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capitalists we met with did not know what the internet.

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Speaker 3: Was and had not used it.

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Speaker 4: That's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, literally, it's like, isn't that They're literally asking, isn't

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that something that the government and universities used?

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Speaker 3: Like uh for now you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But then then Netscape went public in late ninety five

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I think it was. And then after that, even though

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a lot of bench capitals still didn't understand it and

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still hadn't used it, they somebody had made money on it.

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Speaker 4: So now that it was on the radar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so when we went to get funding the second

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time we try to get funding, everyone was interested.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: So this company was zip two, that's.

284
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Speaker 3: Right, and terrible name.

285
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Speaker 4: Yeah. What what was the reason for that name?

286
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Speaker 2: Well, we were just incredibly stupid at the time. I

287
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think that's the main reason for that name. And because

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we got some ad agency because we thought, well, we

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don't know anything about names, so we'll get some ad

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agencies to suggest a bunch of options, and then Zip

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too seemed.

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Speaker 3: Kind of speedy. I don't know, what the hell, Why

293
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the hell we chose that stupid name and it has

294
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a digit, It's like, why would you pick it? Because

295
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it could be zip t O, could be a zip

296
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t w O, it could be zip t o O.

297
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Speaker 2: So like people like literally spelled the name every variation,

298
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which is bad if you go to U r L

299
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and you don't have the other ones. So so ZIP

300
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two started off as basically, like I said, we're trying

301
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to figure out how to how to make enough money

302
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to exist as a company. And so since there wasn't

303
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really any advertising money being made, we thought we could

304
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help existing companies get online bring their stuff online. So

305
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we developed software that helped bring love the newspapers and

306
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media companies online because a lot of them just didn't

307
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They also didn't know what the Internet was customers, and

308
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even the ones that were aware of the Internet didn't

309
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have a software team. So they were very good at

310
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developing functionality. And so we had as investors and customers

311
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the New York Times company night Ritter or Hearst, and

312
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so we were able to get them to pay us

313
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to develop software for them to bring them online, so

314
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online publishing stuff, and we did maps and directions and

315
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yellow pages and white pages and various other things, and

316
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were developed quite sophisticated technology actually, but it wasn't actually

317
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being employed super well by the media companies, Like we

318
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would suggest ways to use it and then it would

319
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not be used as effectively as it could be.

320
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Speaker 3: It was very frustrating, right, Whether you.

321
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:12,000
Speaker 1: Did sell that company successfully to Compac, yeah, right, and

322
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that allowed you to go on and create egg dot com.

323
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Speaker 3: That's right, yeah, exactly.

324
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Speaker 2: So the Compact had had ulta vista, so I thought,

325
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was combined Altivist and a bunch of other technology companies

326
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and see if that would if that would work, which

327
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it did not, but but nonetheless they they they were

328
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pretty nice guys and bought the company and and that

329
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gave me the capital to to do another company. And

330
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I want, I want to do another company and the Internet,

331
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because I thought we don't really reached the potential that

332
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we could have with with zip too, because we had

333
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really sophisticated software. I mean, our software was sort of

334
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at least comparable to what Yahoo or Excite or others had.

335
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In fact, I mean I thought in some ways it

336
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was better, so but it wasn't because it was all

337
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for through these partners. It wasn't getting properly used. So

338
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I thought, well, I want to do something that could

339
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be more more significant contributor contribution to the Internet. And

340
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so the initial thought was with financial services.

341
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Speaker 3: Because money is digital, it's low bandwidth.

342
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Speaker 2: At the time, there was you know, most people were

343
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on modems, still on modems.

344
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Speaker 3: And because this was late ninety eight early ninety nine,

345
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So this was x.

346
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Speaker 1: Dot Com was a precursor to PayPal. Basically you merged

347
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with Confinity and it became PayPal, major success.

348
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it worked out better than we expected.

349
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, Confinity. So initially Confinity and x com

350
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started out from slightly different directions and it converged to

351
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the same point with With x the thought was to

352
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create integrated seat of financial services, so you could go

353
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to one place into all of your financial anything.

354
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Speaker 3: And and then as.

355
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Speaker 2: A feature, we had the ability to transfer money or

356
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securities or anything simply by entering unique identifier, so like

357
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a you.

358
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Speaker 3: Know, email address or phone number or something like that.

359
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,839
Speaker 2: And when we were demo the system, the hard stuff,

360
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which was the integration of all the financial services, people

361
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would not be interested in, but they'd be really interested

362
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in it. In being able to transfer money using an

363
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email address. You know, that was actually quite easy, and

364
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so we focused our energy on that.

365
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Speaker 3: And although it's.

366
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Speaker 2: Easy in principle, what gets really hard is adding security

367
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whiles still keeping it easy to use. That so because

368
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you know, it's like the Willie Loman quote, like why

369
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do people why do you rob banks? Because that's where

370
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the money is, So why do people rob PayPal for

371
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the same reason?

372
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Speaker 3: And and so you can, you can dial.

373
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Speaker 2: Up the security to a really high level, but then

374
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you're going to make it very hard to use. And

375
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and so the that that was that was one of

376
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the toughest things we wrestled with. And then Confinity originally

377
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started as kind of software for Palm pilots and then

378
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they had a demonstration application with stability to beam money

379
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from one pomp pilot to another using the infrared port.

380
00:20:16,079 --> 00:20:19,759
Yeah people remember that one. Yes, that was big at

381
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one point. And then they had a website sort of

382
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parallel to that were you because once you'd beamed the

383
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infrared tokens, you had to slow then synchronize your pomp

384
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pilot and do the transfer via the website. So but

385
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,200
then people went that interested in the pomp pilot stuff,

386
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,880
but they were interested in the website, so we kind

387
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of converged to the same point and we're quite close together.

388
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So we started to merge the companies and in I

389
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,200
think January or so two thousand, it was very turbulent

390
00:20:55,279 --> 00:21:01,279
period and if the the growth in the company was

391
00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:05,240
was pretty pretty crazy. When we had at the end

392
00:21:05,319 --> 00:21:09,119
of the first sort of four or five weeks, we

393
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had one hundred thousand customers.

394
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Speaker 1: It's incredible. Did you anticipate that when you started that?

395
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Speaker 3: Definitely did not. And it wasn't all good because.

396
00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:24,559
Speaker 2: We had some bugs in the software, and you know,

397
00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:29,640
even if the bug only occurs one in a thousand times,

398
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,480
still I never heard one hundred.

399
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 3: Very angry customers like where my money?

400
00:21:34,079 --> 00:21:38,599
Speaker 2: That would be you know, reasonable and reasonable concern that

401
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,279
people that have. And then we had customer service on

402
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,200
University and Avenue in Palo Alto. There were five people,

403
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:53,559
so when something went wrong customer service phones would basically explode,

404
00:21:53,759 --> 00:21:57,160
and so we had many challenges. And then the various

405
00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:00,279
financial regulatory agencies were trying to shut us down. VI's

406
00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:02,240
in Massacot trying to shut us down. EBA was trying

407
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:05,480
to shut us down. FTC was trying to shut us down.

408
00:22:06,599 --> 00:22:07,799
There were a lot of battles there.

409
00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:11,559
Speaker 1: Wow, it is quite incredible with all that adversity you

410
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,519
conquered and you came out with Yeah, that was one

411
00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:16,880
hundred million, right.

412
00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a close call. We definitely, I mean,

413
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,119
came very close to dying there in two and two

414
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:22,680
thousand and one.

415
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 1: And what was the reason for that success? What would

416
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,039
you put it down to in that case? How did

417
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:28,720
you overcome?

418
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 3: Uh?

419
00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:34,319
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think we had a really talented

420
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,880
group of people at PayPal, and a lot of those

421
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:45,160
people have actually gone on to start many other companies. Yes, know, YouTube, LinkedIn, Yelp, yammer.

422
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,440
It's like quite a long list actually.

423
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 1: So for you personally, there you were with several hundred million.

424
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,279
Were you not tempted just to go on by an island?

425
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,079
What was it the drul of you when I'm getting

426
00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:05,480
at because I know you didn't. Sure what I'm getting

427
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,559
at is, why were you so driven to jump into

428
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:12,720
the next thing? Well, I was Did you take any

429
00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:13,279
time off?

430
00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:18,519
Speaker 2: I did take a bit of time off because after

431
00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:22,680
a PayPal I did reasonably welcome PayPal. It was largest

432
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,960
sholder in the company. So and we were required for

433
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,079
about a billion and a half in stock, and then

434
00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:35,480
the stock doubled, so.

435
00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 3: So you know, it did reasonably reason well.

436
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 2: But the idea of like lying on the beach as

437
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:41,400
my main thing, it just sounds like the worst. That

438
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,039
sounds horrible to me because I would go bonkers. I

439
00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:50,079
would have you know, I would have to be on

440
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:57,920
serious drugs. I mean, right exactly. I mean it's just

441
00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,960
I'd be super duper bored.

442
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 3: So that I mean I like, I like high intensity.

443
00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:08,319
Speaker 2: I mean I like going to beach for a short

444
00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:11,319
period of time, but not much longer than like, you know,

445
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:12,480
a few days or something like that.

446
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 4: Right, So let's talk about the scenes of SpaceX.

447
00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: I understand it started not as the idea of it,

448
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,880
let's let's start a rocket ship company.

449
00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:23,559
Speaker 4: You had a philanthropic idea.

450
00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:26,039
Speaker 1: You were really surprised when you find out that NASA

451
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,960
didn't have any plans to go to Mars, and you

452
00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:31,920
came up with this idea of let's put a greenhouse

453
00:24:32,039 --> 00:24:36,839
on Mars. So can you explain how that whole idea

454
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,519
came into being for SpaceX?

455
00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:41,599
Speaker 3: Sure?

456
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,079
Speaker 2: Well, so when I was thinking of like what I

457
00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:48,640
thought would would affect the world, as a student. It

458
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,519
wasn't really from the standpoint of those are the things

459
00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:51,279
I'll get involved in.

460
00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 3: It was kind of more in the abstract, these are the.

461
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:55,519
Speaker 2: Things I think will happen that will affect the world,

462
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:58,319
but but not that I will be involved in them.

463
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 3: As it turns out I have.

464
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: But uh, I always thought that we would make much

465
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,960
more progress than space and it just it just didn't happen.

466
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,640
It was it was really disappointing. So, uh yeah, I was.

467
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:19,599
I was was really quite bothered by it. So you know,

468
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,000
when when we went to the Moon, we were supposed

469
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:24,640
to have a base on the Moon, We're supposed to

470
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,160
send people to Mars and that stuff just it just

471
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,880
didn't happen. We went backwards, we got the Space Shuttle,

472
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,759
but the Space Shuttle could only go to low with orbit,

473
00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:37,319
where Saturn five could go to the Moon. Now Space

474
00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:40,440
Shuttle is gone, and so that just seemed like a

475
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:41,839
really bad thing.

476
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 3: So I thought, well, maybe it was a question of

477
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,799
of they're not being enough attention or will to do this.

478
00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:57,559
But this, this was was this was a wrong assumption.

479
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,240
So I.

480
00:26:01,559 --> 00:26:04,599
Speaker 2: So, but that's that's the reason for the greenhouse idea.

481
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,599
It was the thought was if, if, if it could

482
00:26:08,599 --> 00:26:11,680
be sort of a small philanthropic mission to Mars. You know,

483
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,279
so I wasn't I was expecting to lose all all the.

484
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:19,039
Speaker 3: Money that I invested in that. But if we could

485
00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:22,000
send a small greenhouse to the surface of Mars with

486
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,880
with seeds and India hydrated nutrient jail and you hydrated

487
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,200
upon landing, and you'd have this great shot of you know,

488
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,200
little greenhouse with with little green plants with on on

489
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,279
a red background. I thought that would get people excited.

490
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,799
Speaker 4: You literally imagined a photograph inspiring.

491
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 3: And you got to sort of imagine the money shot,

492
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:41,440
if you will.

493
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,519
Speaker 2: So so yeah, I think I think, you know, green

494
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:50,200
plants and the red background would be bad. And and

495
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,160
people tend to get interested and excited about precedents and superlatives.

496
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,400
So this would be the furthest that life's ever traveled,

497
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,880
the first life on Mars as far as we know.

498
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,599
Speaker 3: And and I thought, well, maybe that would result in

499
00:27:04,319 --> 00:27:09,319
in a bigger budget for NASA, and and and then

500
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,240
we could sort of resume the journey. That was the

501
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:12,920
basic idea.

502
00:27:13,279 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: And I spent several months on this actually and went

503
00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:21,359
to Russia three times because I was able to figure

504
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,440
out how to get the cost of the spacecraft low

505
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,319
and the communications and the the greenhouse and all that

506
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,680
to a reasonable number, reasonable meaning several million dollars.

507
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,079
Speaker 4: And you have did you actually physically draw the greenhouse

508
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:37,880
of how you manage that?

509
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah? Actually, I hope we've got that somewhere.

510
00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:42,039
Speaker 4: That'd be amazing to see.

511
00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:46,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it looks pretty goofy in retrospect,

512
00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:49,359
but but that's the that's the idea that we had,

513
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,119
and it's so and I spent several hundred thousand dollars

514
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,079
just kind of getting the design worked out and engaging

515
00:27:58,079 --> 00:28:02,759
some companies to come up with the design specifications for

516
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:08,200
the subsystems. And then but it then came to buying

517
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,319
the rocket, and the problem was that the cost of

518
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,400
rockets is really high. And the lowest cost rocket in

519
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:22,720
the US at the time was the Delta too, Bowing's Delta.

520
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 3: Two, and that would have.

521
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 2: Been about fifty million dollars. Yeah, and then you still

522
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,559
need to have it like an upper stage from WHI

523
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,799
so probably sixty million all in. And that was and

524
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:37,200
I wanted to do two of these missions because I

525
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,279
thought if but it just did just one and it

526
00:28:40,319 --> 00:28:43,240
didn't work, then that could have it like the opposite

527
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,480
of effect, Like, look how dumb it is to.

528
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 3: Do to drite?

529
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 4: Did all this money down the drill or an idiot?

530
00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:52,359
Speaker 2: So so I wanted to do too, and I just

531
00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:56,480
didn't have enough money to do two complete missions.

532
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,759
Speaker 4: So you had a budget of about one hundred million

533
00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:59,680
something like that.

534
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: Well, I was hoping it would be less than that,

535
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:05,440
but but not more than I mean not more than that.

536
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,519
But then, yeah, I guess roughly on that order was

537
00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:15,240
about most of be I mean I couldn't I couldn't

538
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:16,119
spend much more than that.

539
00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 4: So the Russians didn't help you out.

540
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: Had three three quite interesting trips to Russia to try

541
00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:29,440
to negotiate purchase of to Russian ICBMs.

542
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, and did they think you would evil intent?

543
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 3: No, they just thought I was crazy.

544
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,519
Speaker 2: But I mean that's not good either if you're buying ICBMs,

545
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,319
but minus the nuke, I mean I think that would

546
00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:46,960
have been a lot more.

547
00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: So you didn't talk, Luke, No, I mean I didn't.

548
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,119
I got slightly got the feeling that that was on

549
00:29:54,160 --> 00:30:00,440
the table if which which was a very alarming.

550
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: But but yeah, that was that was those are very

551
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:12,759
weird meetings with the Russian military and whatnot. I mean

552
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:14,279
I think that they thought I was a bit crazy,

553
00:30:14,319 --> 00:30:16,279
but then they thought that they read about paypals.

554
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,039
Speaker 3: Okay, it was crazy.

555
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:20,319
Speaker 4: He's got money, he did something right.

556
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, well and more importantly I could pay him right. Yes,

557
00:30:24,119 --> 00:30:26,720
So that's that's really I mean there. Yeah, it was

558
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,240
remarkably capitalist. Was was my impression of the Russians.

559
00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:33,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, I have heard that before.

560
00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: So tell me how what was the turning point from

561
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,480
you know, talking with the Russians and then deciding, Okay,

562
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,359
I'm going to do this, I'm going to set up

563
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:41,839
a company.

564
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,359
Speaker 4: What was that turning point for you?

565
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:46,359
Speaker 3: Well, I guess I.

566
00:30:47,839 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: Had I came conclusion that my initial premise was was wrong,

567
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,960
that in fact, the there's there's a great deal of

568
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,440
will uh you know that there there's there's not such

569
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,359
a shortage, but people don't think there's a way, and

570
00:31:06,359 --> 00:31:08,680
and that if people thought there was there was a way,

571
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,680
or at least something that wouldn't break the federal budget,

572
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,599
then that then people would support it, which in retrospect

573
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,519
I think is actually kind of obvious. Because the United

574
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:23,079
States is a distillation of.

575
00:31:23,039 --> 00:31:26,759
Speaker 3: The human spirit of exploration. People came here from other places.

576
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,559
Speaker 2: I mean, it's you know, there's no nation, there's no

577
00:31:31,599 --> 00:31:33,440
I mean, there's no nation that that's more a nation.

578
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,039
Speaker 3: Of explorers in the United United States. But but people

579
00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:38,200
need to believe that it's possible. And it's that it's

580
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,400
not you know, it's they're not to give up like

581
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,839
healthcare or something important. You know, it's just it's gonna

582
00:31:43,839 --> 00:31:45,799
be that that that's that's important.

583
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,759
Speaker 2: So so I thought, okay, well, then it's not a

584
00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:50,759
question of will, it's it's a question of showing that

585
00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:54,960
there's a way. And and the and I started reading

586
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,400
quite a bit about rockets to try to understand why

587
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,160
they're so so freaking expensive. You know, it's just something

588
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,680
you know, where does the sixty million dollars go for

589
00:32:06,839 --> 00:32:09,960
the delta too? And that's subsequently, now delta two I

590
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,079
think is one hundred, one hundred million dollars or something

591
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:17,440
even some crazy number. And delta two is I mean,

592
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,599
if that's a relatively small rocket. So if you go

593
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,359
to like a really you know, one of the bigger rockets,

594
00:32:22,359 --> 00:32:27,599
it's anywhere from two hundred to four million dollars anyway,

595
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,359
So so I came conclusion that there wasn't really a

596
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:34,319
good reason for rockets to be so expensive, and and

597
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:37,279
and that there could be a lot less and even

598
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:42,359
in inexpendable format, they could be less and uh and

599
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:46,440
and that in if one could make them reusable like airplanes,

600
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,400
then the cost of rocketree would would drop dramatically. Costs

601
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:55,119
of space travel wuld drop dramatically because the the cost

602
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,519
of the fuel was maybe anywhere from point to two

603
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:03,000
point five percent of the cost of the rocket. You know,

604
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,559
it's kind of like a plane. I mean, how much

605
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,680
is the cost of the fuel and the plane versus

606
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,359
the plane itself. It's at least a too or of

607
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,880
mag two difference. But nobody had really been able to

608
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:14,240
make a.

609
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,599
Speaker 3: Reasonable rocket work so that that But so I thought,

610
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,720
okay that if we can do that, then that would

611
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,519
that would really be the key breakthrough for space travel, right,

612
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:26,799
But you also said that therefore we have not succeeded

613
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:28,839
point You've.

614
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: Also said that failure was the most likely I would come.

615
00:33:32,039 --> 00:33:34,519
Can you talk about failure in that sense and in

616
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:38,720
a broader sense of being an entrepreneur and innovator? Why

617
00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:40,279
is failure so important?

618
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think I think failure is bad.

619
00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:45,880
I don't think it's good.

620
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: But if if something is important enough, then you you

621
00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:54,119
do it even though the risk of failure is high.

622
00:33:54,599 --> 00:33:57,799
And and so I think my advice if somebody once

623
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,400
you start a company is they should bearn that the

624
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,119
most likely outcome is is that it's not going to work,

625
00:34:03,759 --> 00:34:07,759
and they should reconcile themselves to that strong possibility.

626
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,039
Speaker 3: And they should only do it if they feel that

627
00:34:10,119 --> 00:34:14,079
they're they're they're really compelled to do it, you know,

628
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,880
because it's it's it's gonna The way starting company works

629
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,480
is like usually the beginning, it's the very beginning, it's

630
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:26,320
kind of fun, and then it's really hellish for for

631
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:27,960
a number of years.

632
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 4: You're talked about chewing glass.

633
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's a friend of mine who's successful entrepreneur

634
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,000
and started actually his career around the same time as

635
00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:42,360
I did. And he has a good, good, good phrase.

636
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,079
Name is Billy. He said, yeah, you're starting a company

637
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,480
is like eating glass and staring into the abyss. And

638
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,840
and you agree with that generally true, Yeah, and and

639
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,639
and and if you don't eat the glass, you're not

640
00:34:57,639 --> 00:34:58,559
going to be successful.

641
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:04,639
Speaker 4: That's tough medicine. Medicine. So let's move along.

642
00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 1: We're going to get down into innovation and motivation shortly,

643
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,840
but I want to just go through your whole business

644
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:17,039
career first. So shortly after funding SpaceX, you then got

645
00:35:17,039 --> 00:35:20,639
interested in electric vehicles. And I understand you watched the

646
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,920
vigils for the death of the EV one when they

647
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,400
were all smashed. Talk about that and why you felt,

648
00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:33,760
even after founding SpaceX, I have to get involved with Tesla.

649
00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I said, like myntioned electric vehicles goes back

650
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,199
a long time too, you know, goes back twenty scene.

651
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

652
00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 2: And in fact, the original reason I came to Silking

653
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,679
Value was to work on electric vehicle energy storage technology.

654
00:35:54,639 --> 00:36:00,000
And I thought that that the big car companies would

655
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,719
developed electric cars because.

656
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,519
Speaker 3: Obviously the right move and and and and I thought.

657
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: That was indicated when General Motives and uh TO announced

658
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,840
their General Motives doing the e V one, the electric

659
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,760
vehicle one Turner did the Electric GRABH for the original one,

660
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,400
and they made those announcements and then and they prot

661
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,239
those to market, and I thought, okay, well, this is

662
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:24,880
this is great.

663
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna have electric cars.

664
00:36:27,559 --> 00:36:30,119
Speaker 2: GM is gonna obviously do the EV two and three,

665
00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:31,960
and then you know, they just get keep.

666
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,559
Speaker 3: Getting better and everything would be cool and uh.

667
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:40,559
Speaker 2: And then when when California relaxed its regulations on electric cars,

668
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,039
GM recalled all of the e V one'es uh and

669
00:36:46,159 --> 00:36:49,559
crushed them into little cubes, you know, which is seem

670
00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:56,679
kind of nutty. So in fact, uh, the people didn't

671
00:36:56,679 --> 00:37:00,400
want their ev ones recalled, and in fact they tried,

672
00:37:00,519 --> 00:37:02,760
if they tried court orders to stop the cars from

673
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,480
being recalled, they held a candle lit vigil.

674
00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 3: Okay, at the yard where the cars were crushed. I did,

675
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:12,280
I did not.

676
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: I did not, Well, certainly, I mean it's it's crazy

677
00:37:17,559 --> 00:37:20,639
if I mean, when is the last time you heard

678
00:37:20,639 --> 00:37:24,360
about any company customers holding a candle lit vigil for

679
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,599
the demise of that that.

680
00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 3: Product, particularly a GM product.

681
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, what bigger wake up call do

682
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,480
you need? It's like, it's like, hello, the customers are

683
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,480
really upset about this.

684
00:37:40,679 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 3: They were really preferred if it didn't get recalled, so

685
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,679
so that that that kind of blew my mind. So

686
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,039
it was like wow, okay.

687
00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: And then and then we had the advent of lit

688
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,800
them on batteries, which really helped helps the It makes

689
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,079
you know, that's that's one of the key things for

690
00:37:59,119 --> 00:37:59,840
making electric cars.

691
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:01,679
Speaker 3: It's still nothing. And so.

692
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,199
Speaker 2: In two thousand and three actually had lunch with one

693
00:38:07,199 --> 00:38:09,039
of the other co founders of the company, JB. Strabel,

694
00:38:09,159 --> 00:38:13,360
who was actually working I think on like a hydrogen

695
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:21,679
aeroplane or something, and he mentioned to me the T

696
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,199
zero car that was done by AC propulsion. A propulsion

697
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,679
I think consisted of guys, some of whom had actually

698
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,679
been on the EV one program, and they took a

699
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,800
gasoline sports car kind of a kit car, and outfitted

700
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:44,800
it with with lithiumon batteries considered consumer grade cells, and

701
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:50,119
they created a car which is which is essentially the

702
00:38:50,119 --> 00:38:55,480
pre coursor of the roadster. And and in fact it

703
00:38:55,519 --> 00:38:59,639
had very similar specifications, so sub zero a sub four

704
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,440
second sero to sixty miles an hour turn, fifty mile

705
00:39:03,559 --> 00:39:07,719
range and also two seater sort of sports car. But

706
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,280
it had but it was quite primitive. It didn't have

707
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,679
a roof one thing at all. And in fact, I

708
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,000
don't know if it had doors, but it didn't have

709
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,119
any safety systems, no airbags, It wasn't home alligated, so

710
00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:23,199
you couldn't sell it.

711
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 3: So in order to sell a car.

712
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: In order to create a commercial version of the car,

713
00:39:27,519 --> 00:39:31,320
something that a manufacturer could produce and sell people, there

714
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:31,480
was a.

715
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 3: Favoit of work that was required.

716
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,559
Speaker 2: But anyway, I kept trying to get AC Propulsion to

717
00:39:36,679 --> 00:39:40,320
commercialize the T zero and I said, look, I'm gonna

718
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,079
I'll fund the whole effort. You know, you really need

719
00:39:44,119 --> 00:39:47,320
to do this, and they just they just sort of

720
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:48,239
refused to do it.

721
00:39:49,199 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 3: They didn't want to do it. They wanted to make.

722
00:39:51,639 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: A I think the it's what's that they want to

723
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,440
make like an electric sign, which in principle sounds good,

724
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,880
except that would cost seventy five thousand dollars and nobody

725
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:08,400
wants to buy seventy five thousand dollars on, and and

726
00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:10,960
the technology just was not ready that there was just

727
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,079
no way to.

728
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,559
Speaker 3: Make a good value for money proposition.

729
00:40:19,639 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: What was it that compelled you to say I have

730
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,960
to be CEO here and lead this company? Why not say,

731
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,840
you know, I'll help you JB get this get this ruling?

732
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 2: Well, I really didn't want to be CEO of two

733
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,800
companies if I tried really hard not to be actually,

734
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,840
And yeah, so anyway, so ACR Repulsion finally said Okay.

735
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,840
I actually told ac Repulsion, look, if you're not going

736
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,679
to do this, I'm going to create a company to

737
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:50,840
do this. And they said, well, there's some other guys

738
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,719
who are also interested in doing that, and you guys

739
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,360
should combine efforts and and create a company. And that's

740
00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:06,440
basically how Tails came together. And uh and then we

741
00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:12,679
had like a lot of drama and uh but I

742
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,159
mean I had since I was the you know, I

743
00:41:16,199 --> 00:41:19,000
provided like ninety five percent of the money, so I

744
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:21,000
could have been the CEO of from day one. But

745
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:26,079
I really you know, that CEO of two startups at

746
00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:30,199
the same time was not appealing and.

747
00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 3: Shouldn't be a feling.

748
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,559
Speaker 2: By the way, if anyone's thinking that's a good idea,

749
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:33,760
it's really terrible idea.

750
00:41:34,119 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: But then again, you know, going back to your trajectory here,

751
00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:41,199
not only did you take ON two, you took on three.

752
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,639
You had an epiphany at Burning Man, I understand, and decided.

753
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 3: Not necessarily what you should pursue, and you came up

754
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:56,159
with the idea.

755
00:41:57,199 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, well, you know, the solar is kind

756
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,800
of part of the whole sustainable energy thing. So sustainable

757
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,559
energy you have to have sustainable means of producing and

758
00:42:08,599 --> 00:42:13,719
consuming energy. And so even if you have electric cars,

759
00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:16,079
you have to have the other side of the equation, say,

760
00:42:16,159 --> 00:42:19,679
how do you produce energy in a sustainable way? And

761
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,559
I think solar is the obvious primary means of sustainable

762
00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:24,480
energy generation.

763
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: In fact, the Earth is almost entirely sole power today.

764
00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 2: That the only reason we're not a frozen ice bowl

765
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,199
at three degrees Calvin is because of the Sun. And

766
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,840
the Sun is responsible for all precipitation, It's responsible for

767
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,920
the vast majority of the ecosystem.

768
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 3: Apart from sort of chemotrophs the bond of the ocean.

769
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:53,199
Speaker 2: So there's just a tiny amount of energy that people

770
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:54,800
that people.

771
00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:57,199
Speaker 3: Consume to power civilization.

772
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 2: It's actually a very tiny amount of energy relative to

773
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,840
the amount of nage that the Sun sends in our

774
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,719
general direction. And so in order to deal with that,

775
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,159
we couldn't in fact, how the entire world was still

776
00:43:09,199 --> 00:43:10,199
of power quite easily.

777
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 3: This is maybe not super obvious to people, but so was.

778
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,119
Speaker 4: That the epiphany you had at Burning Man? Was it?

779
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,679
Speaker 3: I knew that long and long. I knew that in college,

780
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:18,400
But what what.

781
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: Was the key vision that came to you at Burning Man?

782
00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:25,079
We all want to imagine.

783
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 4: There vision that.

784
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 3: Uh no, it was it was more the the.

785
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it was a particular perphony. It was

786
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:44,119
more that I was at Burning Man with with with.

787
00:43:43,639 --> 00:43:45,039
Speaker 3: My cousins or to my cousins.

788
00:43:45,199 --> 00:43:51,039
Speaker 2: Uh, Peter, he are awesome guys, and they and they

789
00:43:51,039 --> 00:43:52,880
were sort of trying to think what should they do

790
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,199
after there.

791
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 3: After their first startup.

792
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: So they did company called ever Dream, which did large

793
00:44:01,039 --> 00:44:03,800
scale management of computers. So if you've got like sixty

794
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,880
thousand computers, it's kind of hard to manage them. So

795
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,239
they wrote they created software that enables companies to do that,

796
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:11,920
and that company actually got sold to Dell.

797
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 4: So they were looking for a new venture, looking for

798
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:17,079
your ideas.

799
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't say the initially looking for my ideas,

800
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,639
but I actually was trying to convince them that they

801
00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:24,039
should do solou and.

802
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,119
Speaker 3: Because I just thought I just thought it was an.

803
00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: Area that needed people like them here, really good got entrepreneurs.

804
00:44:32,199 --> 00:44:40,599
So and since I was like somewhat over committed, I thought, yeah,

805
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,679
I thought well, and I said like, look, if if

806
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,960
you guys will do a solo company, I'll find you

807
00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:51,559
fight all the funny and you know whatever, guidance, I can,

808
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,840
I will help, I can provide, I do that. And

809
00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:58,119
that's and I thought it was really important that there'd

810
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:03,199
be you know, good entrepreneurs like them in in sol

811
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,599
solar because it just wasn't wasn't doing very well as

812
00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:11,679
an industry. So and I thought people were kind of

813
00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:16,840
focusing on not the they weren't focusing on the right problem.

814
00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:22,000
The I already sort of thought that the the panel

815
00:45:22,119 --> 00:45:25,239
was the problem, but actually it's it's not. It's it's

816
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,760
a problem, but it's not. It's not the it's not

817
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:33,320
the most important problem. It's the and and the panel

818
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,559
is somewhat commoditized at this point, so it's you know,

819
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,440
making standard efficiency solar panels is about as hard as

820
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,880
making drywall. It's really easy. In fact, that's the drivewall

821
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:47,039
is probably harder and bit But what what is a

822
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:49,840
thorny problem is trying to figure out how to get

823
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,119
solar on tens of thousands, eventually hundreds of thousands of

824
00:45:55,159 --> 00:45:55,679
roof tops.

825
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 4: The logistics part.

826
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's kind of like you've got to re

827
00:45:59,679 --> 00:46:04,719
roof millions of buildings, right, and then figure out how

828
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,079
the great interconnects work and then manage all those systems. Like,

829
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,360
so if you've got hundreds of thousands or maybe millions

830
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,440
of systems, eventually you've got to manage all these distributed systems.

831
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,440
You have this really complex distributed utility effectively, which I

832
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,079
think actually plays to to their strengths in creating their

833
00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:26,760
price strength in creating really scalable software for managing you know,

834
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,440
hundreds of thousands of computers in a distributed.

835
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,639
Speaker 3: Fashion ice right, And that's that's kind of what they did.

836
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,079
And then it's an awesome job.

837
00:46:36,119 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 2: It was just like I basically would show up at

838
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,159
the board meetings to hear, what's the good.

839
00:46:40,039 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 3: News this time? You know, it's like, really, you know,

840
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:42,920
we had like.

841
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: Maybe a couple of bad news board meetings, well late

842
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:47,960
two thousand and eight, there were some bad news board

843
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,639
board meetings, but for the most part, apart from a

844
00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:55,400
few a few times when the macroeconomic conditions were really terrible,

845
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,800
they just did an amazing job with you know, almost

846
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:00,559
no help for me.

847
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,199
Speaker 4: So you've been able to leave in their good hands.

848
00:47:03,599 --> 00:47:07,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that is the vast majority of the credit

849
00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:08,519
for for success in that company.

850
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:09,159
Speaker 4: Awesome.

851
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,599
Speaker 1: So I'd like to move on to innovation and motivation.

852
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,679
There's been a lot of talk lately about the fact

853
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,320
that innovation is leveling off. We're not making the dramatic

854
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,760
increases or improvements and innovation like we did when the

855
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:22,800
plane was invented.

856
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 4: You do you agree with that?

857
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 2: And No, I don't agree with that. I don't think

858
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:31,719
that's true. I think we've we've seen well, and I'm

859
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,400
not sure what time period that is exactly, but we've

860
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:40,320
seen huge improvements in the Internet and new new things.

861
00:47:41,679 --> 00:47:44,400
I mean, you know, in recent years, Twitter and Facebook

862
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,360
being being pretty huge when people kind of thought the

863
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:52,159
Internet was done. And you know, I think that there

864
00:47:52,199 --> 00:47:54,559
are some of the things that we're doing, like like

865
00:47:54,679 --> 00:47:56,840
you know, electric cars or a new thing.

866
00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 3: And I do think this is pretty significant breakthroughs.

867
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 2: I mean, in genomics, we're getting better and better at

868
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,960
decoding genomes and and being able to write genetics. I

869
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,480
think that's going to be a huge, huge area. I

870
00:48:13,519 --> 00:48:16,880
think there's likely going to be some breakthroughs in artificial intelligence.

871
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,599
And I suspect we will even see the flying car.

872
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: All right, Is that is that going to be an

873
00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:29,199
ill and Musk production. No, you're gonna let someone else

874
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:29,440
do that.

875
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I think someone else. I think someone else

876
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,880
is doing that, all right, Okay.

877
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,519
Speaker 1: That's another conversation. Do you feel the government is standing

878
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:41,880
in the way of innovation at all?

879
00:48:43,519 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 3: Well, sometimes the government.

880
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:47,559
Speaker 2: I don't think the government tends to stand the way

881
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:50,360
of innovation, but sometimes it can overregulate industries to the

882
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,440
point where innovation becomes very difficult, right, I mean in

883
00:48:54,559 --> 00:48:58,199
the the order industry used to be a great hotbed

884
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,000
of innovation at the beginning of the twentieth century, but

885
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,159
but now there's so many regulations that are intended to

886
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:09,840
protect consumers. I mean, the body of regulation for cars

887
00:49:10,119 --> 00:49:13,559
could like full you know this room. It's just crazy

888
00:49:13,639 --> 00:49:16,519
how much regulation there is that down to like what

889
00:49:16,639 --> 00:49:21,920
the headlamps are supposed to be like, and the they

890
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,719
even specify the use some of the elements of the

891
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,119
user in her face on the dashboard, which and some

892
00:49:27,199 --> 00:49:31,800
of these are completely anachronistic because they're they're relating back

893
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,880
to the days when you had like a little light

894
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,199
that would illuminate an image, so like we have to

895
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,960
reserve space on the instrument panel of the models for

896
00:49:42,119 --> 00:49:42,800
where all of the.

897
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 3: The indicators like that a car would have. You know,

898
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,119
you've got like these little lights like.

899
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:50,079
Speaker 4: Or whatever.

900
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, like all these little little things, there's like a

901
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,320
whole bunch of them, and we can't have anything else

902
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,559
in that space, like a, well, how would if we

903
00:49:57,639 --> 00:49:59,599
have one space and render a different graphic.

904
00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 3: Oh no, because people are expecting to see him that space.

905
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,159
Like nobody is expecting to see him that space.

906
00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:08,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you feel you can argue with these regulations,

907
00:50:08,639 --> 00:50:10,599
you just have to Well you.

908
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:15,159
Speaker 3: Can argue with them, but not with great success, and

909
00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:17,800
you can't actually get these things changed. But it takes ages.

910
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,840
Like one of the things we're trying.

911
00:50:21,599 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 2: To get is like like why should you have side

912
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,079
mirrors if you can have say little video cameras, tiny

913
00:50:28,159 --> 00:50:32,400
video cameras and have them display an image inside the car,

914
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:35,920
But there are all these regulations saying you have to

915
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,360
have side mers And I went and met with the

916
00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:43,320
Secretary of Transport, like can you change this regulation? Still

917
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,920
nothing has happened. That was like two years ago, you know.

918
00:50:47,039 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 4: So you're banging your head against a wall here in

919
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:49,360
a little bit.

920
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 3: It's not easy to get these regulations changed.

921
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 4: So talking to.

922
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 1: Government, President Obama is obviously trying to do what he can.

923
00:50:56,159 --> 00:50:59,039
If you had five minutes with President Obama, what would

924
00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:04,880
you advise him for one, stimulating the economy and entrepreneurship

925
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,320
and creating jobs. Is there one thing that if you

926
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,079
could successfully get through that would be a big stimulus

927
00:51:12,159 --> 00:51:12,559
to think?

928
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 3: Well, I think actually, I think the reality of being

929
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,559
president is that you're actually like the captain of a

930
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:28,559
very huge ship and have a small rudder because because obviously,

931
00:51:28,679 --> 00:51:30,440
if I mean, if there was a button that a

932
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:33,199
president could push that said economic prosperity, you'd be like,

933
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:34,639
they're hitting that button real fast.

934
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 2: Imagine the speed of light by how fast they mentioned

935
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,039
they press that button, because that would be that's called it,

936
00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:46,039
like the reelection button. So so so I'm not sure

937
00:51:46,039 --> 00:51:51,000
how much president can really do. But but I think

938
00:51:51,039 --> 00:51:56,360
I think, you know, I'm generally a fan of like

939
00:51:56,639 --> 00:52:01,559
minimal government interference in the economy, Like the government should

940
00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:04,119
be kind of a like the referee but not the player,

941
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,239
and there should be too many referees.

942
00:52:09,159 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 3: But but but.

943
00:52:12,199 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 2: There is an exception, which is when there's uh an

944
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:20,119
unpriced externality, such as the CO two capacity of the

945
00:52:20,159 --> 00:52:23,159
oceans and atmosphere. So when you have an unpriced externality,

946
00:52:23,199 --> 00:52:25,480
then the normal market mechanisms do not work, and then

947
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:29,480
govern is government's role to to intervene in a way

948
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:33,079
that's sensible. And the best word intervene is to is

949
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:36,480
to put it is to assign a proper price to

950
00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:40,119
whatever the common good is that's being consumed.

951
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 4: And then I know you're saying there should be a

952
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:44,519
tax on gas.

953
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,159
Speaker 3: They should be attack on carbon.

954
00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:49,519
Speaker 2: You know, if if the bad thing is carbon accumulation

955
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:51,679
in the atmosphere, then there needs to be at taxed

956
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,199
on on that, and then we can that will and

957
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,440
then you can get rid of all subsidies and all

958
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:02,960
everything else. And it seems like logical that you should

959
00:53:03,039 --> 00:53:05,480
tax things that are most likely to be bad rather

960
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:08,440
than you know, like that's why we tax cigarettes and

961
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,840
alcohol because those those are probably bad for you. Certainly

962
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:22,280
cigarettes are and so so yeah, so you want to

963
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:24,079
err on the side of taxing things that are probably

964
00:53:24,159 --> 00:53:27,320
bad and and not tax things that are that are good.

965
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,079
And so I think, given that there is a need

966
00:53:32,159 --> 00:53:36,719
to gather tax for the you know, to pay for

967
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,400
the federal government, we should shift the tax burden too too.

968
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:44,679
Speaker 3: Bad things, and then adjust that that tax of that bad.

969
00:53:44,599 --> 00:53:48,519
Speaker 2: Thing according to whatever's going to result in the behavior

970
00:53:48,559 --> 00:53:50,840
that we think is beneficial for the future. I mean,

971
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,239
I think currently that you know what we're doing right now,

972
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,519
which is mining and burning trillions of tons of hydrocarbons

973
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,760
that that used to be buried very deep underground, and

974
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,599
now we're seeking them in the atmosphere and running this

975
00:54:01,679 --> 00:54:03,639
crazy chemical experiment on the atmosphere.

976
00:54:05,159 --> 00:54:07,079
Speaker 3: And then you've got the oil and gas companies.

977
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: Which have ungodly amounts of money, and you can't expect

978
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:12,639
them to just roll over and die like.

979
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,639
Speaker 3: They don't do that. So actually what they're much preferred to.

980
00:54:16,639 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: Do is spend you know, enormous amounts of money lobbying

981
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,880
and running focused ad campaigns and that kind of thing.

982
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 3: To preserve their situation. You know, it's a lot. It's

983
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,960
a lot like tobacco companies in the old days. I mean,

984
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:31,719
they used to run these.

985
00:54:31,599 --> 00:54:33,559
Speaker 2: Ads with doctors, like a guy with a doctor, you know,

986
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:37,440
whether the pretending he's a doctor, you know, essentially applying

987
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,599
that smoking is good for you, and like having pregnant

988
00:54:40,639 --> 00:54:42,400
mothers on ads smoking.

989
00:54:43,559 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: You have a message for the climate change skeptics and

990
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,800
and the big oil people.

991
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 3: Well supports climate change skeptic. I mean, like I'm you know,

992
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:54,880
I like to.

993
00:54:55,159 --> 00:54:57,119
Speaker 2: I believe in the scientific method, and one should be

994
00:54:57,519 --> 00:54:59,800
one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general.

995
00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:04,239
And you know, if you're first things from a scientific standpoint,

996
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,559
you always look at things probabilistically, not definitively. And so

997
00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:10,079
I think a lot of times if somebody is a

998
00:55:10,079 --> 00:55:11,920
skeptic in the science community, what they're really saying is

999
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,079
that they're not sure that it's one hundred percent certain

1000
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,079
that that this is the case. But that's that's that's

1001
00:55:16,119 --> 00:55:20,519
not the point. The point is that is looking from

1002
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:23,119
the other side, So what do you think the percentage

1003
00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:28,360
chance is of this being catastrophic for some meaningful percentage

1004
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:29,360
of those population?

1005
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,679
Speaker 3: Is it greater than one percent? Is it even one percent?

1006
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,760
If it is even one percent, why are we running

1007
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:38,400
this experiment?

1008
00:55:39,159 --> 00:55:41,559
Speaker 4: Called it a Russian roulette. We're playing Russian roulette with

1009
00:55:41,599 --> 00:55:42,119
the atmosphere.

1010
00:55:42,119 --> 00:55:44,159
Speaker 2: We're playing Russian roulette. And then and and as each

1011
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,119
year goes by, we're learning more rounds in the chamber.

1012
00:55:47,519 --> 00:55:48,559
Speaker 3: It's not it's not wise.

1013
00:55:51,039 --> 00:55:54,199
Speaker 2: So so that's and and what makes it super insane

1014
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,760
is that we're going to run out of oil anyway.

1015
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,920
Like It's not like there's some infinite oil supply, We're

1016
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,039
going to run out of it, so we know we

1017
00:56:04,159 --> 00:56:08,400
have to get to a sustainable means of of transportation

1018
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,159
no matter what, So why even run the experiment?

1019
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:15,599
Speaker 3: So Will's dumbest experiment.

1020
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:26,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, so let's move on.

1021
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 1: To focus on Silicon Valley. Steve Jobs is it wasn't?

1022
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,800
Is a wonderful Silicon Valley icon. Is he someone that

1023
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,800
you've admired and what have you learned from Steve's life

1024
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:37,280
and work?

1025
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 2: Well, certainly someone I've admired. Well, I did try to

1026
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:45,199
talk to him once at a party, and it was

1027
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,599
super rude to me. But I don't think it was me.

1028
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 4: I think it's you know, I think you weren't the first, the.

1029
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:58,679
Speaker 2: First, no, but but yeah, and I was actually there

1030
00:56:58,679 --> 00:57:00,239
with like Larry Page's an old friend of them. I've

1031
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,559
known Larry since before he got venture funding for Google.

1032
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:04,719
And Larry was the guy that introduced me to Steve Jobs.

1033
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,519
So it's not as like I'm going like entugging on

1034
00:57:06,599 --> 00:57:10,440
his coat, like, you know, please talk to me. But

1035
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,960
it was introduced by Larry Page. Is not bad, but

1036
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,000
I mean he obviously he was an incredible guy and

1037
00:57:17,239 --> 00:57:21,719
made fantastic products. That that, you know, and I know

1038
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,199
there was like a certain the guy had a certain

1039
00:57:25,239 --> 00:57:27,280
magic about him, you know, just sort of that was

1040
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,920
kind of that was really inspiring. So I mean, I

1041
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,199
think that's that's really great.

1042
00:57:31,559 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 4: Is there is there that magic that you try and emulate?

1043
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 3: Uh No, I think Steve Jobs is way cooler than

1044
00:57:38,159 --> 00:57:38,599
than I am.

1045
00:57:38,719 --> 00:57:42,199
Speaker 4: So okay, So.

1046
00:57:42,239 --> 00:57:45,079
Speaker 1: I'd like to get inside your head a little bit

1047
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,599
about you know, when you come up with an idea,

1048
00:57:48,119 --> 00:57:50,239
do you doodle it, you know, in a pad of

1049
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,760
paper or do you get your iPad out and and

1050
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,280
take notes? I mean, when you come up with something new,

1051
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,840
you know, and new rocket design or whatever it is,

1052
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,320
how does that manifest itself?

1053
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:03,679
Speaker 4: Could we see you being creative?

1054
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,679
Speaker 2: I mean it's more cliche, but it's happens a lot

1055
00:58:07,719 --> 00:58:11,039
in the shower. I don't know what it is about showers.

1056
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 3: Exactly. Get the camera like, no, I'm just I do

1057
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:24,000
I just kind of stand there in the shower.

1058
00:58:25,639 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 4: Do you have long showers?

1059
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 3: Sounds wrong, but yeah I do. There's no running men

1060
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:44,199
epiphanies if that those are those are huge. So yeah,

1061
00:58:44,679 --> 00:58:47,519
I think that's yeah.

1062
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:51,239
Speaker 2: And and and then there there are sometimes like late

1063
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,480
at nights if I've been thinking about something, then I

1064
00:58:53,519 --> 00:58:54,639
can't sleep and I'll be.

1065
00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 3: Up for you know, for several hours.

1066
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 2: I think about sort of sitting around the house and

1067
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:07,159
thinking about things, and occasionally I'll sketch something or send

1068
00:59:07,239 --> 00:59:08,840
myself an email or something like that.

1069
00:59:09,519 --> 00:59:10,519
Speaker 3: Right, so we have a.

1070
00:59:10,559 --> 00:59:14,599
Speaker 4: Question from the audience. Who inspires you or do you

1071
00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:15,400
have a mentor?

1072
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 3: Well, I don't have a mentor per se, although I

1073
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:20,880
try to.

1074
00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: I try to get feedback from as many people as possible,

1075
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,440
and so I have I have like friends, and I

1076
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,079
asked them to you know, what they think of this,

1077
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,760
that and the other thing. And you know, as mentioned,

1078
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,119
you know, Larry's a good Larry Page is a good

1079
00:59:38,119 --> 00:59:43,079
friend of mine, value his advice a lot, and have

1080
00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:46,280
many other good friends. And so so I think it's

1081
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:50,000
good to solicit feedback, and particularly negative feedback actually because

1082
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,320
you know, obviously people aren't don't love the idea of

1083
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:53,440
giving you negative feedback.

1084
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 3: Let's listen. It's like some you know, on on on

1085
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:58,280
flogs they do that.

1086
00:59:59,599 --> 01:00:01,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, Hi, do you deal with negative feedback?

1087
01:00:01,599 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: Because you've got some tough criticism, especially with SpaceX, you

1088
01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:11,360
had incumbents like Neil Armstrong even speaking out and saying

1089
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,239
this is wrong. We don't want you know, commercial companies

1090
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,920
in space. It's not a place for commerce.

1091
01:00:18,519 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 3: So how did you deal with that?

1092
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 4: And how do you deal with me there in general?

1093
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:22,760
Because you've had a lot.

1094
01:00:23,519 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was kind of troubling because you know, growing up,

1095
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,599
Neil Laanstow is kind of a hero, so it's like

1096
01:00:28,719 --> 01:00:29,639
this kind of sucks too.

1097
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, the back, that's a bit of a blow. Yeah.

1098
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:37,159
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I think in his case, he

1099
01:00:37,239 --> 01:00:40,760
was somewhat manipulated, you know, by other interests. I don't

1100
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:42,519
think he caught White knew what he was saying in

1101
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:44,440
those in those congressional hearings.

1102
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, okay, and.

1103
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 1: Talk about you know, it's one thing to have these

1104
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,679
wonderful ideas in the shower of burning Man, but there's

1105
01:00:55,679 --> 01:01:00,519
another thing to build, motivate and retain a team of

1106
01:01:00,679 --> 01:01:03,800
excellent people. Can you talk about some tips and some

1107
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:06,039
things you've learned that obviously.

1108
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 4: Work for you?

1109
01:01:07,679 --> 01:01:10,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean, think about a company. A company

1110
01:01:10,599 --> 01:01:12,880
is a group of people that are organized to create

1111
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,119
a product or service. That's a sort of company is

1112
01:01:16,599 --> 01:01:20,599
So in order to create such a thing, you have

1113
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:25,440
to convince others to join you in your effort, and

1114
01:01:26,599 --> 01:01:29,159
and and so they have to be convinced that that

1115
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,840
that it's a sensible thing, that it's like that there's

1116
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,639
at least some some good, some reasonable chance of success,

1117
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,559
and if there is success, that the reward will be

1118
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:40,320
commensurate with the effort involved.

1119
01:01:42,519 --> 01:01:44,519
Speaker 3: And you know.

1120
01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 2: So, So I think that's getting people to believe in

1121
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:53,159
what you're doing, uh, and in in you is is important.

1122
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,239
So in the beginning there will be there will be

1123
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,639
a few people who do who believe in you or

1124
01:02:03,159 --> 01:02:06,800
what you're doing. And but then over time, as you

1125
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,679
may progress, that the evidence will build and more and

1126
01:02:10,719 --> 01:02:14,079
more people will believe in what you're doing. So I

1127
01:02:14,159 --> 01:02:16,519
think it's a good idea when creating a company too,

1128
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,800
to create a tab a demonstration or you know, if

1129
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,639
it's a product, to have like a good mackup, or

1130
01:02:24,679 --> 01:02:27,039
if it's even if it's if it's software, to have

1131
01:02:27,159 --> 01:02:30,079
good demo ware or to be able to sketch something

1132
01:02:30,199 --> 01:02:33,519
so people can really envision what it's about. Like that,

1133
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:35,840
that's try to get to that point as soon as

1134
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,599
possible and then iterate to make it as as real

1135
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:41,119
as possible as fast as possible.

1136
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, if that makes sense. Good.

1137
01:02:46,159 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're running your CEO of two companies, your

1138
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,119
chairman of Solar City, talk about time management.

1139
01:02:52,199 --> 01:02:53,719
Speaker 4: How on earth do you do this?

1140
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:56,039
Speaker 3: Well?

1141
01:02:56,079 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 4: Do you get any sleep?

1142
01:02:59,039 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 3: Sometimes?

1143
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 2: Not enough sleep is really great because because if I

1144
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:04,639
find if I don't get enough sleep.

1145
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,599
Speaker 3: Then I'm quite grumpy. I mean, obviously I think most

1146
01:03:08,639 --> 01:03:09,199
people that way.

1147
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 2: And and also like I try to sort of figure

1148
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,599
out what's the right amount of sleep because I found

1149
01:03:16,639 --> 01:03:19,880
I could have I could drop at a certain threshold

1150
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:21,920
a sleep and although I'd be awake more hours and

1151
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,880
I could sustain it, I would get less done because.

1152
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 3: Mental acuity would be affected.

1153
01:03:30,519 --> 01:03:32,679
Speaker 2: So I found generally the right number for me is

1154
01:03:32,719 --> 01:03:35,199
around six to six and a half hours on average

1155
01:03:35,239 --> 01:03:35,599
for night.

1156
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 4: That's not too bad. And any other tips on average?

1157
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:45,599
Speaker 1: Any other tips on just managing to run two companies simultaneously.

1158
01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:47,400
I mean, do you do you find I mean, I

1159
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,840
know you're up here on Monday Tuesday? Is it all

1160
01:03:50,159 --> 01:03:53,679
Tesla when you're up in Silicon Valley and all SpaceX

1161
01:03:54,159 --> 01:03:54,960
Wednesday Thursday.

1162
01:03:56,599 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 3: Having a sort of.

1163
01:04:00,159 --> 01:04:02,599
Speaker 2: Having a smartphone is incredibly helpful because that means you

1164
01:04:02,639 --> 01:04:05,800
can do email during inter social periods like if you're.

1165
01:04:05,639 --> 01:04:07,559
Speaker 3: In a car, you're walking in the bathroom, everywhere.

1166
01:04:08,039 --> 01:04:13,559
Speaker 2: You can do email practically when you're awake, and so

1167
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,480
that's really helpful to have email for SpaceX and Tesla

1168
01:04:17,599 --> 01:04:19,400
integrated on my phone.

1169
01:04:21,679 --> 01:04:26,679
Speaker 3: And then and then interest, you have to apply a

1170
01:04:26,719 --> 01:04:29,840
lot of hours to actual working, actually working. So the

1171
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:31,639
way I generally do it is I'll be.

1172
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 2: Working at SpaceX on Monday and then Monday night, flight

1173
01:04:38,119 --> 01:04:44,000
to the area, spend Tuesday and Wednesday at the Barrier,

1174
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,400
then at Tesla, and then fly back on Wednesday night, spend.

1175
01:04:48,159 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 3: Thursday and Friday at SpaceX.

1176
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,719
Speaker 2: In the last several months, then I would fly back

1177
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:58,360
here on a Saturday and either spend Saturday and Sunday

1178
01:04:58,639 --> 01:05:04,000
at Tesla or spend Saturday at Tesla and Sunday at SpaceX.

1179
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:07,960
Speaker 4: And where and where do the boys fit in? You

1180
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:08,920
have five sons?

1181
01:05:10,519 --> 01:05:10,719
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1182
01:05:11,079 --> 01:05:13,039
Speaker 4: What did they tag along with dad on some of these?

1183
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,199
Speaker 3: They? I do drag them along in a lot of things.

1184
01:05:15,239 --> 01:05:18,679
Actually they're remarkably unimpressed by.

1185
01:05:21,519 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 2: I wish they would be sort of more interested, But

1186
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,280
I mean they're only the twins are eight in the

1187
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,719
triplets for six, so maybe they'll get more more interested later.

1188
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 1: But do you see one day grooming one of them

1189
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,639
or several of them to take over your companies?

1190
01:05:35,599 --> 01:05:38,199
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think if if they're inclined to,

1191
01:05:39,639 --> 01:05:41,719
I mean, if they're really interested in working at Tesla

1192
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:42,880
or SpaceX.

1193
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 3: Then I, you know, help them do that.

1194
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,159
Speaker 2: I'm not sure i'd want to necessarily try to insert

1195
01:05:49,199 --> 01:05:51,760
them into the CEO role at some point.

1196
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:52,079
Speaker 3: You know.

1197
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 2: It's kind of like if if if the rest of

1198
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:59,000
the team and the board kind of felt that they

1199
01:05:59,039 --> 01:06:01,400
were the right person, then that would be that would

1200
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:05,239
be fine. But I wouldn't want people to feel like

1201
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:09,679
I kind of, you know, installed you know, my kid there,

1202
01:06:10,719 --> 01:06:12,039
And I don't think that would be good for either

1203
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:19,360
the companies or the kid, really, but I have I

1204
01:06:20,199 --> 01:06:21,840
was actually at more point of a school thought that,

1205
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:25,400
you know, it's best to give away kind of ninety

1206
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:29,280
nine percent or more of one's assets, kind of like

1207
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:30,800
the Buffet school of thought.

1208
01:06:31,079 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 3: And I'm still mostly of that incline in that direction.

1209
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 2: But after seeing what happened with Ford and GM and Chrysler,

1210
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:43,360
where GM and Chrysler went went bankrupt but Ford did not,

1211
01:06:43,719 --> 01:06:47,239
and Ford seemed to make better long term choices than

1212
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,199
the other two companies, and that's in part because of

1213
01:06:50,239 --> 01:06:53,280
the influence of the Ford family. And I thought, well, okay,

1214
01:06:53,599 --> 01:06:57,800
there may be some merit in having some longer term

1215
01:06:57,880 --> 01:06:59,800
family ownership, at least at least a portion of it.

1216
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:04,639
So it's it acts as a positive influence. Uh, I mean,

1217
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:06,960
this is still something I'm thinking about, but acting as

1218
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,159
a positive influence in the long terms that the company

1219
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:10,199
kind of does.

1220
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 3: There's proper long term things. And like I'm you know,

1221
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,320
look at what happened also in Silicon Valley with with

1222
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:22,440
HP and I think it's quite quite quite sad, and

1223
01:07:24,199 --> 01:07:26,800
and that that that to some degrees because there was.

1224
01:07:28,639 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 2: Much diminished, uh, influenced by the Hewlett and Packard families.

1225
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:39,960
I think they should have prevailed in in their you

1226
01:07:40,039 --> 01:07:42,880
know where they were opposed to the merger that took

1227
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,519
place at one point, and I think they were right.

1228
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 4: Actually, I'm keeping and looking to the future for SpaceX.

1229
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:52,039
Is there an I P O plan for this year?

1230
01:07:52,599 --> 01:07:57,119
Speaker 3: No, there's no idea of plan. Let's say, running a

1231
01:07:57,159 --> 01:08:01,800
public company does does have a strong so you're not

1232
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:02,440
in a hurry.

1233
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:09,199
Speaker 2: No, I mean, in the case of Tesla and SpaceX,

1234
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,239
we had to raise capital, and and we had kind

1235
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:17,159
of complex equity structure that needed to be resolved by

1236
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:23,279
by going public, and and so so I thought we

1237
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:25,359
kind of needed to do that in those two cases.

1238
01:08:26,039 --> 01:08:28,119
We don't have to do that in SpaceX. I think

1239
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:30,920
there's a good chance well, at some point in the future.

1240
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:36,199
But but SpaceX's objectives are super long term, and the

1241
01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:39,760
market is is not. So I'm a bit worried that

1242
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:41,920
if we did go public, certainly if we're in public

1243
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:46,359
too soon, that that market pressure would force us to

1244
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:50,479
do a short term things and abandoned kind of long

1245
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:51,199
term projects.

1246
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:54,119
Speaker 3: Right, very long term.

1247
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 1: Yes, that's an important one. So you do have other

1248
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,720
projects on the back burner. You've talked about the hyper loop,

1249
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,399
a way of getting people from downtown LA to downtown

1250
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:07,000
San Francisco on under half an hour, and the electric

1251
01:09:07,159 --> 01:09:11,560
supersonic airplane. Yeah, which of those two are bubbling up

1252
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,199
that we might hear more about in their future.

1253
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,399
Speaker 3: Well, I did promise that I'd.

1254
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 2: Do some paper on the on the hyperloop idea, and

1255
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,039
things got a little a little hectic towards the end

1256
01:09:26,119 --> 01:09:30,000
last year because it had I had these I committed

1257
01:09:30,039 --> 01:09:33,000
to to make these milestones at Tesla to to the

1258
01:09:33,079 --> 01:09:37,560
public markets, and I had to stay true to that obligation,

1259
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:43,000
which required just just an insane level of work and attention.

1260
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 3: And uh.

1261
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 2: And then we also had the Solar City i PO,

1262
01:09:47,239 --> 01:09:50,399
which was a very difficult i PO to get done.

1263
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:54,039
And that IPIO occurred just by the skin of its teeth,

1264
01:09:54,039 --> 01:09:56,520
and there was so so such a tough one.

1265
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 4: We you just determined it had to be in December.

1266
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:05,079
Speaker 2: Well, if it wasn't in December, it would mean pushing

1267
01:10:05,119 --> 01:10:10,680
it out, you know, quite a bit. And and the

1268
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,520
problem is that we'd already pushed it out quite a bit.

1269
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:14,079
So if we didn't go public, we'd have to do

1270
01:10:14,119 --> 01:10:14,760
a private.

1271
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:19,520
Speaker 3: Round and then and it just the whole thing wouldn't

1272
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:21,920
feel right. You know. It's like you're sitting at the

1273
01:10:22,199 --> 01:10:25,439
it's like your spirit, you know, at the at the altar,

1274
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,079
and you don't do the do the wedding.

1275
01:10:28,119 --> 01:10:32,159
Speaker 2: It's like it's a bit awkward, to say the least.

1276
01:10:33,399 --> 01:10:35,800
So we really needed, we really needed to do it.

1277
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,680
And and and I think if we hadn't done if

1278
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:41,199
you would have looked at it as a failure, and

1279
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,600
it would have been good because there's just been too

1280
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,239
many failures in the solar or too many not enough

1281
01:10:47,279 --> 01:10:48,880
success let's say in the solar arena.

1282
01:10:49,279 --> 01:10:51,520
Speaker 3: They needed to be sort of, we need to choke

1283
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:52,319
up with success and.

1284
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:56,279
Speaker 4: A rare piece of sunshine for the solar ironically, for.

1285
01:10:56,279 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 3: A solar industry does not have a lot of that.

1286
01:10:58,319 --> 01:11:01,079
Speaker 1: Yes, so is time on for only for the last question.

1287
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:03,600
You've come a long way since you were that six

1288
01:11:04,079 --> 01:11:08,640
year old little boy breaking the rules. You turn forty

1289
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:12,199
two this year, right, what is on the cards? Or

1290
01:11:12,239 --> 01:11:14,960
do you where do you see yourself in ten years time,

1291
01:11:15,359 --> 01:11:18,439
twenty years time, forty years time? Because you famously said

1292
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:22,319
you want to die on Mars just not unimpact.

1293
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 3: Right exactly?

1294
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:27,640
Speaker 4: Tell us about that dream?

1295
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:33,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I actually ask by journalists do you want

1296
01:11:33,359 --> 01:11:35,479
to die on Wis and I said yes, but wait,

1297
01:11:36,039 --> 01:11:37,279
no impact just too clear.

1298
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:46,520
Speaker 3: This is that's one of the possibilities. So yeah, so, uh,

1299
01:11:47,279 --> 01:11:47,880
I guess.

1300
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:51,239
Speaker 2: I mean I'd like to be able to go to

1301
01:11:51,359 --> 01:11:56,720
Mars while I'm so able to manage the journey regionally.

1302
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 3: Well, so I think, like, I don't have to be

1303
01:11:58,520 --> 01:11:59,920
like seventy five and go to Mas.

1304
01:12:00,039 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 4: You don't take your zimmer frame with you, right, you know, it.

1305
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 2: Could be, at least in the beginning, could be, you know,

1306
01:12:07,399 --> 01:12:11,680
mildly arduous. So I wanted to, I'd like to, I'd

1307
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:12,199
like to get there.

1308
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, ideally in my fifties that

1309
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:18,039
would be. That'll be kind of cool.

1310
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 4: So you see that happening, and then well.

1311
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I aspire to make that happen. And I

1312
01:12:24,079 --> 01:12:30,199
can see the potential for that happening. And I'm not

1313
01:12:30,319 --> 01:12:33,880
saying it will happen, but I think it can happen.

1314
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:38,960
I'll try to make it happen, right, ladies and gentlemen,