Speaker 1: Welcome to this edition of The High Strangers Factor, copyrighted
on the Paranormal UK Radio Network. I'm Steve Ward along
with Andie Mercer and Susie Bastile. A High Strangest Factor
was created by Andy Mercer and myself about five years ago.
Susie has joined the show with the old timers a
little more recently and we have had a wide variety
of guests covering all aspects of the unexplained and the paranormal. Today,
we will be talking to a longtime friend of mine
who will be revealed shortly. But of course you've already
seen the banner, so you know who he is. Uh.
Andy and Susie, welcome back to the show. Hello, Hello,
and let's let's do a little Susie. Now, you're you
don't have a presence on Facebook anymore? Is that correct?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I'm very mysterious lately.
Speaker 1: Okay, so maybe we should just call you by your
name Susie. That all you know, Uh, mysterious females just
have one name that works for me.
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But but where can now you? You do have some
websites uh to do with your work about pug Wedges
and the uh the Bridgewater triangle.
Speaker 3: Yep, puckes dot blogspot dot com. There's also a contact
form if anyone has Puck questions or exciting and then
I'm the Puck Whisper on YouTube. No recent videos, but
we actually have some some planned for a comeback when
it is not field work season and I'm not outside
in my free time.
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe you could come back as a horror host
or something like that.
Speaker 3: You never know what I'm going to pop up as.
Speaker 1: Again, very good and Andy, Please tell us what's going
on with your publishing company.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm still working on the next book at the moment.
It's taken a bit longer than I thought. I have
to go for a process of turning the word document
into in design layout so it can be printed. And
because the one I'm working on is in English, Greek,
Latin and Hebrew, every time I transfer to in design
it completely MUXI collapsed, and having to reformat the whole
thing every time I go along, which is delaying things
somewhatch is a bit of a pain. So I hopefully
had to work out really now basically, but I'll be
probably middle septeen related for it finally comes out.
Speaker 4: That was very well, must have met.
Speaker 5: Had some issues regarding posting to America which you may
have heard about, which thankfully seemed to be resolving themselves.
Is a great news because a lot of my customers
are in It would have been a pain in the
backside for me, but it's been resolved. It seems that
I'm being raw male sort of something else, so that's
getting back on track. But it's been a bit of
a funny week having to sort of look into all
these changes have been going on, so that's kept me
rather busy. But otherwise, yeah, things have been pretty good here.
Speaker 1: So do you have a command with different languages?
Speaker 5: Well, not especially, no, thanks, I have a friend who
does speak Greek, which is helping. It's more of a
case of transposing the text. It's going from one format
to another to reformat it correctly. So it's a it's
an old, very old text I'm reproduced and that's been
out of print for a long time, which has some
significant elements to I meantioned last time that I have
played a major role sort of occult circles. So it's
just a case of getting that transference and lay up
correct because it is going from a four size down
to what's called royal size.
Speaker 4: It means to be reformatted, which.
Speaker 5: I quite enjoyed doing normally when it's just all the
English text, But this one's taking a lot more work.
Speaker 4: The night envisions.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I've got a bit of a graph
of a feud language, nothing special, so I couldn't translate
stuff directly.
Speaker 3: I've been learning a new language while I've been off
being mysterious. Oh yes, that Narrogansetts, which is a tribe
in Rhode Island.
Speaker 4: So okay, next over what I've not heard of it before?
Speaker 1: Are you good enough in that language where you could
order something through a drive through window?
Speaker 3: They? I don't think i'd get the food I wanted
if I tried to drive through.
Speaker 1: Well, Bill, it's a damn good thing. I'm here to
bounce out to this intellectual crew here, Otherwise, you know,
we would be out of touch with people. I'm here
for the comic relief and the eye candy. One more
questions for Andy, what your Do you still have your
dark ambient music?
Speaker 4: We absolutely yes.
Speaker 5: Dark Mysterium on YouTube are still putting together other people's
music into long tracks and compose of my own stuff.
I've not done my to it for quite a while,
to be honest, you that I've relaunched the Panel the
UK Radio Network's YouTube channels. It's now called the Panel
the UK Network, leaving up the YouTube that the radio
bit because I have other things on them as well
now and that's.
Speaker 4: Been quite a bit of time up. You've been putting
on some of the.
Speaker 5: Old Cryptic file videos, you remember that, the kind of
top new top five star clips. I've been doing some
of those, putting those onto its channels come to life
quite nicely at the home.
Speaker 4: You've got quite a few new subscribers, which is good.
So that's kept me quite busy.
Speaker 1: I remember the very creepy one with a face that
when when when you have your videos up, I don't.
I'm not thinking, oh ai c g I. It's a
real damn thing.
Speaker 5: Everything I put around. But I am freezey convinced is genuine.
Anything that looks even baby fake or flawed. I don't
bother using it. Of course people argue they're all fake,
of course, but pretty much convinced most of those are believable.
Some of them are things called by accidents and are
investigation scenes, and you always kind of con to the
investigation team before and to discuss.
Speaker 4: You know what, you know what he's what, is it
real and just double check.
Speaker 5: So I'm reasonally confident that they are real, but you
never know, of course, is the internet leeds doing as
it could be completely nonsense.
Speaker 1: Well that night I slept up the covers over my
face and held my bed to the floor, just because
that's what I did after I saw The Exorcist and
one one more thing. You produce other shows besides this
one still on the UK Paranormal Radio.
Speaker 5: Oh yes, absolutely eyes so you know they seen of
the raw audio and ed up and add music. I'm
doing about four shows and we've had a couple of
people have gone a bit quiet for a while, but
of happens in the summer. People kind of decided to
go out and do other things rather than record their
YouTube or very good shows. But yeah, a few old
ones have come back and had a break. So yeah,
Will got quite a few shows on the network. Still
it's pretty good.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let's introduce our guests. Bill Conkoleski has been
the stake director of the Michigan chapter of the Mutual
UFO Network since two thousand and four. Lifetime of his
own UFO and Abduction Encounters. He spent the last three
decades actively investigating these otherworldly phenomena, trying to make some
sense of the bizarre events that have happened to him personally.
What he's discovered confronting these coasic mysteries is that reality
is far stranger than he could have ever imagined. Ton
Koaliski is the author of the autobiographical books Experiencer Raised
in Two Worlds in its sequel Experiencer II, Two Worlds Collide.
His personal abduction experiences have been chronicled in the sci
fi documentary Abduction Diaries, streaming documentary Abducted by Aliens, UFO
Encounters of the Fourth Kind, television series Alien Conspiracy, They
Are Here, and the ABC News special UFOs Seeing Is Believing.
He has also served as consultant to Netflix's Unsolved Mysteries,
the History channels Hangar one and UFO Hunters, National Geographics Channel,
The Truth Behind, as well as the science channels Uncovering
Aliens and Close Encounters Bill Welcome to the High Strangers Factor.
Speaker 2: Oh thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: Great great to see you again. Let's now I can't
remember when I joined Michigan New Fund I do remember
having one of those blue cards with twenty eleven on it,
so it's it's been at least been that long. And
back in the good old days, we you would, you know,
before COVID and all that nonsense, we would congregate. I guess.
It was a suburb of Flint, Michigan. Yeah, yeah, at
place called Walley's Restaurant, and it was really you would
have your your training meeting, training meetings in the beginning,
and then people would show up and you know you
you'd pay your dues or whatever, and you always they
always had a great spread, a great brunch, and the
one of the most you always had a speaker, a
good speaker set up in quite a variety. But we
would sit around for what an hour or two over
a brunch, and you get to hear people's experiences. I
mean I didn't have much to experience except I had
read a lot of stuff and I could interject a
lot of things and pretend like I was intelligent. But
it was just such a good time. Now do you
still do you have something like that set up still
for Michigan.
Speaker 6: Be find Yeah, we certainly do. Things are a bit
more diverse now in a variety of different types of meetings.
But when COVID hit, Walley's actually closed right before COVID hit,
and then they never reopened and during after COVID, and
in fact the building has been demolished now it's not
even there any longer. But we have moved to Frankenmuth
and so, but we have our Franken Mouffon meetings now
and then a couple of the meetings during the colder
months we have it via Zoom because during COVID all
of our meetings were by zoom and some people prefer that,
some people prefer to meet in person, so we sort
of split the difference. And then in every September this year,
September twenty sixth and twenty seventh, we meet in Houghton
Lake for the UFO Contact Conference. Our meeting is embedded
in that conference. And in fact, next year in May,
we're doing something a little special for our meeting.
Speaker 2: We're having three speakers.
Speaker 6: It's going to be in Troy, Michigan, right off of
the Expressway I seventy five, and it's going to be
Jack Bouchong, who was the radar operator from the Big
March eighth, nineteen ninety four event in Michigan, Ray Schumansky,
who's going to be talking about the nineteen sixty six
flap in Michigan, the swamp gas flap. And then also
Nicolelon who's an experiencer.
Speaker 1: So I remember I spoke at that first Houghton Lake
meeting with you and several other speakers way back in
the old days. Also you mentioned the swamp gas sightings.
That was probably the one of the things that sparked
my interest when I was in junior high. And as
you guys probably know, I've talked about it many times
about in March of sixty six, there was a wave
of sightings not just in Michigan but in the Midwest,
and that's when doctor Heinek came down when he was
still attached to Project Blue Book, and suggested that some
of the sightings might be a swamp gas. So, Bill,
you had a was it twenty sixteen, you had a
swamp gas conference? Well, actually in the same let's see,
it was next to the Weber Inn.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah it was, and ever oh, go ahead, yeah.
Speaker 6: So it was the fiftieth anniversary of the big nineteen
sixty sixth wave, and we wanted a time in as
close as possible to March, which was the biggest month
here in Michigan. March fourteenth was an Arbor's Big Day
with over one hundred witnesses between three am and seven
am one night over the campus.
Speaker 2: And so ann Arbor was where we had the conference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that was pretty cool. And the uh
it was ten years after those sightings that doctor Heineck
spoke at a new found symposed him at the Webber
Inn and which I u which I was thrilled because
I didn't have any money. I was sharing rent and
an apartment and I was able to drive to this
great UFO conference and I got to see uh well
obviously doctor Heineck. Even I even still have that recording
somewhere in my archives. And Ray Stanford was there, another
great UFO investigator that we just lost. I actually, did
you meet Gray Barker when you were when you when
he was there? No, okay, I actually cross paths with
Gray Barker in the lobby. Of course, they wouldn't let
him speak because he was too weird and controversial. But
it was great because I had a friend of mine
had met him, and I sort of cornered him and
asked him a bunch of questions. It is uh in
his army had a stack full of Srian, the latest
Soserian publication with vegetable Man on the cover. So and
I got one. I got a freequent. But anyway, so
much for reminiscing. I guess I'm not sure where to start.
But since you have chronicled some of your own personal experiences,
was it the having those experiences? Is that that what
started you on your path or your interest in this realm?
Or were you interested seemingly independently And this just came
along side.
Speaker 6: What I was like to say, is that UFOs had
an interest in me before I had an interest in them.
My very first memory at age two is a little
gray guy coming in my room staring at me in
my crib and freaking out and having my mom just,
you know, not even come. So she just kept saying,
go to sleep, go to sleep, And it was the
being was just there for a few moments and then
walked out of the room, and then they returned when
I was age four, and I had experiences age seven
to nine, and you know, really my whole life. So
now over fifty years of remembered experiences and when I
had one particular encounter when I was a senior in
high school, I was with two friends. We were in
Sterling Heights, Michigan, February, so the sky was dark and
the three of us were in his chavette Me and
my two friends while we were parked outside another friend's
house waiting for her to get home from work. A
blue ball of light about the size of a car,
about the height of two telephone poles, slowly drifted over
the sky above us. Then a white ball of light
came in, ping pound all over the sky, and that disappeared.
And then a red ball of light appeared in the
middle of the sky, grew dou about the size of
a full moon, so very large right, and then shrank
and disappeared, and we were dumbfounded.
Speaker 2: We didn't know who to tell.
Speaker 6: One of my friends said, well, maybe we should tell
the police, like, good luck. You know, we're three high
school seniors. Let's go tell the police. We saw you
a vote, And and so my other friend says, well,
maybe we should tell Selfridge International Guard Base, which was
also quite close. And I said, okay, so you're not
going to tell the police. But you want to tell
a military And so we didn't know who to tell
until when I was in college. A friend of mine
I told her the story and she said, hey, you
know there's this place in Chicago called the Center for
UFO Studies.
Speaker 2: You should go tell them. So on a trip out.
Speaker 6: There that I was going to take anyway, I stopped
in and met doctor Mark Rodeger and I told him
my story and he said, oh, that's very interesting. Did
you tell your state moofon chapter? And that was the
first time I'd ever heard the word moufon And this
was nineteen ninety three, and so I'm like, okay, what's
that whatever. He gave me the name of the state
director at the time, a woman by name a Shirley Coin.
I came back to Michigan, rang her up, told her
my story. I was really impressive how receptive she was
to what I had to say.
Speaker 2: And then I said, okay, actually.
Speaker 6: I have some more stories, and soon I was over
at Shirley's house quite a bit after that, unloading everything
that had happened to me in my life up that point.
And so that's how I got onboarded, if you will,
into move on. And since this was ninety three. It
wouldn't be long before the March eighth, nineteen ninety four
event hit, and I started thinking, like, oh, my gosh,
is it always going to be like this? Like March eighth,
nineteen ninety four on the west side of the state,
there were over three hundred witnesses in one night to
this array of UFOs over by Lake Michigan, And so
I was all excited. And of course nothing quite matched
that in the thirty years whatever since. But I mean,
we still get a lot of great sightings on a
regular basis. But so, yeah, yeah, the contact phenomena has
always been my focus because it's been my life. Another experienceer,
Sandy Nichols, once asked me, you know, did I ever
wish that none of this had ever happened? And I
said to him, you know, I'm like, I wouldn't recognize myself.
I wouldn't I wouldn't you know, I would be a
completely different person. And once you get into you know,
once you confront this, once you accept it into your
life as real, you just can't put it down.
Speaker 2: You carry it with you everywhere.
Speaker 6: It's not even if when it's in the back of
my mind it's the foundational reality of what.
Speaker 2: My life has become.
Speaker 6: And I don't think I could ever just say, man,
I'm not interested in this subject anymore, because the phenomena
would continue to exist.
Speaker 2: In my life even if I chose to ignore it.
Speaker 6: And you know, I always say that there's what two
big mysteries in life, right is there are we alone
in the universe? And what happens when we die? And
why not spend your time looking into one of those mysteries?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I have more questions, but Andy and
Susie please feel free to step down.
Speaker 4: Question which didn't soundary, but why do you think you Bill?
Why you so?
Speaker 6: I think the question that should be asked, maybe as
a first question in a lot of questions like that,
is how many people is this happening too? And whenever
you crunch in numbers as strange as this is, it
comes out to the millions, like this has happened to
millions of people, and and so then I'm not necessarily
one of a tiny handful of people. I'm one of
several million people that have had some variety of the
have of this happened to me? For me, it runs
in my mom's side of the family. I kind of
look at this as kind of like a disease in
a weird, abstract way. There's a few different ways you
can catch it. In my situation, it's genetic and because
it runs a my family.
Speaker 2: But you could.
Speaker 6: Also have it if you say, marry somebody who has
these types of experiences, or you're best friends with somebody
who has these type of experiences. There's a good chance
at some point, somewhere, somehow it's going to happen, and
you're going to be there, and it's going to happen
to you as well. And once it happens to you,
once it tends to cling to you, and you tend
to have more of these types of situations even when
that other person is no longer around, and the other way.
And I can verify this by two examples of people
I know quite closely. They had experiences. They're both frequent
flyers like I am. And when they moved out of
their homes, the homeowners who bought their places reached out
to them and said, I'm having a lot of weird
things happen in this house.
Speaker 2: Do you know anything about this? Did any of this
happen to you?
Speaker 6: So I think there's kind of a stickiness to property
to like you. Again, you could catch it genetically, you
could catch it from somebody else, or you could catch.
Speaker 2: It from being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Speaker 3: In your experience from all the people that you've spoken with.
Do people tend to understand what's happening to them right
away or do they maybe mistake it for other things
like a poltergeist or a haunting or things like that
at first.
Speaker 6: Well, you know, it all depends on the type of
experience that you have. But for sure, a friend of
mine and Steve's, the late Chris Bailey, we used to
have this thing that we would do about once a year.
We would get together and I would bring him all
the UFO reports that could potentially actually be ghost sightings
or some other sort of spiritual phenomena, and he would
bring all the ghost sightings that could possibly be U
A Foe related and we would look at each other's
cases from that perspective, from each other's perspective, and yeah,
there was definitely some overlap, Like depending on who the
witness was, they could interpret marginally ambiguous phenomena to be
on one in one lane or the other lane. And
that was always that always really fascinated me. And if
you're having sort of Poltergeis activity, I had Poltergeiss activity
growing up. If you don't have, if you don't know,
if you're not familiar with the content.
Speaker 1: Yep, we've build his winked out on us. We hopefully
hopefully early. And this is this is when you start
when I shouldn't search an objective search.
Speaker 5: It's just interesting, was saying about family connection. I, as
you guys, know, very much into the accults have written
books on the topic, and the ghost something all that.
My adoptive parents as as a child, no interest, no
experience whatsoever. But when I found my birth mother about
ten years ago, very interested in that sort of thing.
Her and my half sister both very interested in the paranorm.
Not done much with it, but they have a strong interest.
So it kind of explains where mine comes from.
Speaker 4: Me.
Speaker 5: No, I didn't spend any time with them growing up,
of course, So yeah, I get the you're just saying,
Bill about the idea about family connection. I'm adopted as
a baby, and my adoptive parents have no interest in
the supernatural. They called nothing the adult. When I met
my birth mother, about ten twelve years ago. Now I
found out she was very interested in supernatural as is
my half sister. So there was a kind of family
connection for me there mine's saying mine's more supernatural ghosts,
she would say, experience. But there was a connection then,
the family of interest. At the same my adoptive parents
had none at all, apart from my discovered not that longer.
My my adoptive father's mother was the wise woman of
the village where she grew up in Wales and the
last century before I was undred. There's a bit of
a witchcraft connection there as well, which I thought was
quite fascinating.
Speaker 4: But sorry, we lost you from home and for your back.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, you know, I get abducted all the time.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but we figured that you know, if you
can talk about it, you will.
Speaker 6: Yeah that My screen just went white and then this
like little message came and said look here to enter
the studio.
Speaker 3: Like okay, as we were talking about, yes.
Speaker 1: Yes, did the message say stop upstaging Steve?
Speaker 6: So anyway, probably not so when I was growing up.
You know, I'm not as old as Steve. But when
I was growing up, this was still before like the
the UFO thing really landed in public like culture close
and I was sick or seven when Close Encounters came out,
and I didn't see that movie in fact too much later.
So while I was having really straight up abduction experiences
as a small child, I didn't know where to put
it because I didn't see anything like this on television
or in books or anything like that. Nothing seemed to
match what was happening to me. And it wasn't until
I had my Communion moment that I was able to
pick up a copy of Whitley Steever's Communion after being
freaked out by seeing the book in a bookstore like
so many people, and I said, oh, well, maybe this
will provide some answers. And what it gave me was
a context to put the phenomena of everything that happened
to me, but didn't really provide answers.
Speaker 3: It just.
Speaker 2: Blown in what had happened to me. And it's really creepy.
Speaker 6: You tell people the ones that you can trust while
you're growing up, you know, I don't know how to
describe it. I'm just going to tell you exactly what happened.
There were these little people with big eyes. I got
this cut on my arm. It's still there, So that's real,
et cetera, et cetera. And then you see something like
that and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm not only
not alone, but this is a bunch of people in
this category. And so that's how I came to sort
of get into that. But it's not to say that
I haven't ghosts, because I've seen a ghost. I've seen
all sorts of Pelter guests, Poulter guys stuff in the house.
Speaker 2: Growing up, I'm the youngest of five.
Speaker 6: I have four older brothers, and my two oldest brothers go,
we go in a strange paranormal encounter contest, and then
the two brothers in between us. So you get my
two older brothers, lots of stuff happened to him, the
next two brothers nothing between them, absolutely zero, and then
it picked up with me again and it was off
to the races. So I always thought that was really
strange that to the brothers somehow got to pass on this.
But yeah, so yeah, it was really deep in my family.
And when I was growing up, my parents said to
my oldest brothers not to talk about anything that happened
with them around me until I was older. They didn't
want to scare me. They didn't want to influence what
was happening to me. But if I were to say anything,
you know, listen whatever, and which is what they did
until I think I was probably about thirteen, where they
started saying, Okay, we're going to share some stuff too,
and I was like, wow, Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 3: And you said it was on your mother's side of
the family.
Speaker 6: Yeah, my mom had some stuff happened to her by
including the house that we grew up in. There was
somebody with a small hand trying to pull her out
of bed, other memories that she shared with us, and
a lot of strange things amongst my cousins.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you all Phoe directly. You full related stuff
and also ghosts stuff.
Speaker 6: It seems to kind of go hand in hand, at
least in my family.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting that it was two and two with
your siblings because you know, genetically, if this did have
some kind of genetic component, if it's inherited, you know,
you're getting an X chromosome from your mother, but she's
got two one from each parent, and there's a fifty
to fifty shot. You know which one are you going
to get? So I mean you have because it's five
five of you, so it's three and two, but it's
about a fifty to fifty chance. So it was just
an interesting statistic there that my nerd brain latched.
Speaker 6: Onto and talking about phenomena that you wouldn't think would
happen together. But somehow does I want to share this
story because I think it might resonate a little bit.
So it was October tenth, twenty ten. I remember the
date specifically because it was ten ten ten. This did
not happen to me, but it was a story that
was shared with me. I don't know if any of
you are familiar with Tina Ronan from Indiana. She was
once part of a group called the Indiana Ghost Trackers.
And Indiana is a state that's right just below Michigan,
and so she was right on the border. And when
they would go to different cemeteries as a ghost hunting
group with their equipment to try to see if they
could pick up something. They one time did a field trip,
which you know, I guess they did occasionally into Michigan
and there was a cemetery that they went to on
that particular night of October.
Speaker 2: Tenth, twenty ten.
Speaker 6: Tina was walking around by herself in the cemetery that night.
There was a large group sort of in the center
of the cemetery trying to see if they could speak
to somebody get some response, and then there were other
groups of people walking around the perimeter of the cemetery.
So Tina says, she looks up in the sky and
she sees three silver discs, three flying saucers in the
sky over the cemetery. And you know, she you know
the irony of it. You go to look for ghosts
and you see UFOs in the cemetery. And as she's
watching them, she says, she starts to see them fade away,
like cloak or whatever.
Speaker 2: They're just disappearing.
Speaker 6: And then at that point she hears a growling at
her feet, and she looks down and she declares to me,
this is the first time I'd ever heard this term.
She says, she sees a puckwadgie and she drew a
sketch of it, and it was this little squat guy
kind of on all fours. And see in Indiana, Michigan,
southwest Michigan, just right over the Indiana border. And so
she and I still have the sketch of it somewhere.
Had I known, I could have provided it. But so anyway,
she's looking at this little thing and sprowling at her,
and then she says it takes off, and she was
very clear about the saying being that thing. And then
so she goes and she wants to tell the rest
of the group, hey, I saw these UFOs. Hey I
saw this puckwadgie. And then as she looks up to
see where they are, she sees this parade of black
phantom like people wiz past her. Shadow people whiz past
her really quickly and head towards the center group. And
she's like, oh no, they're in danger. That was her thought.
And then when she got to them, she said that
the group was unaware that there was anything that was
approaching them or anything. She was the only one who
had seen anything that night, and she got a hat trick.
You know, she saw you know, a UFO cryptid and
a ghost.
Speaker 3: You do get puckwage sightings along with the UFOs of
some sort. Actually, and I'm going to be the first
to bring up Keel.
Speaker 1: Tonight I was on the verge. But you see, Billy
takes squares to see when I'm going to bring up
John Keele.
Speaker 3: Tonight because I was about to bring up the Mockman prophecies.
He actually talks about it. In the Mockman Prophecies. There
were sightings of red lights over the Ohio River, and
then somebody looked across the river and saw an outline
of a little person. And then you know, up here
where I live, we have the Bridgewater Triangle not too
far from me where uh you know, going back, like
pre colonial lore has puckwadges associated with something the tribes
here called type a wonkas, which are like spoof lights
or orbs or like a Will of the Wisp type thing.
But Bridgewater Triangle has a lot of UFO sightings. Now
it's mostly starlink sightings. Unfortunately I've got that that page bookmark.
But yeah, they do seem to go hand in hand.
And actually Bridgewater Triangle has a shadow person cited commonly
with pocologies as well. That's very interesting.
Speaker 4: M hm.
Speaker 1: Let me do our station identification here. Just like a
real radio show. You are listening to The High Strangers
Factor a copyrighted on the Paranoble UK Radio network. Today
we are talking to Bill conkole Eski about his experiences
investigations and Michigan upon and by the way, Bill, I
wanted to I misspoke when I say, I asked if
you had met Gray Barker, and then I sat at
the at that symposium. Well, he would have been about
five years old, I think. So I didn't see any
five year old kids wandering around in nineteen seventy six,
right now, Okay, So that's my apologies there. He was
quite a character. But also, and this is when I
was going to bring up John Keel. Very cool that
Susie brought him up first. It takes the pressure off,
you know. But Keel believed that a certain percentage maybe
it was twenty percent of people that were naturally psychic
or the kind of people that would have these kinds
of experiences. And I'm doing this talk on the high
strangest aspects of the locke Ness Monster. And there's a
character named doctor Donald Ulmend an exorcist who exercise or
so he said, the lock Ness Monster. Well, he believed
that due to a lot of sightings and so forth,
that this thing may have been more of more paranormal
or more like an apparition than a flesh and blood
like plesiosaur. But He said that his I don't know
whether it was his mother or grandmother had second sight,
and he believed that people that had second sight were
the ones actually seeing NeSSI and the people like me
that don't have it would would probably not see it.
Do you think there's anything too, like say, in your family,
for example, you and your older brothers are maybe more
psychically sensitive, or is there something completely else going on now?
Speaker 6: I do think there's some of that to that for sure,
And I've heard I've been around the block certainly with
his phenomenon hearing people's stories, and I've heard many stories
where certain people in a group will see something clear
as day, and other people won't see it at all,
And that includes cryptids. Yeah, but I remember the story
of from these two guys that were watching a UFO
trying to get people's attention to look up at it,
and people would look up in the sky and shrug
their shoulders and they're like, can't you totally see the thing?
Speaker 2: We both see it. It's right here and nobody else
could see it.
Speaker 7: And you mention that too with ghosts, Oh, absolutely, very
much the case that people will see something very clearly
before them, and other people will actually know something there.
Speaker 5: I can't see anything. Well, you're you're talking about now,
it's something in built with us, this sort of psychic sense.
And my experience of others suggest the more you do
these things, the more you're involved in these things, the
more it become attuned to what's going on around you.
So if you had experiences from two years old, then
you're absolutely going to be saying so for.
Speaker 4: The most of your life. I deafinitely.
Speaker 5: I mean, I've seen quite a few different phenomena of
the years accorded it for you, but as well, but
I've never had the level of experiences you've been having
the bill at all.
Speaker 6: Yeah, pardon from me talking about all sorts of phenomena
that aren't like aliens, when that's.
Speaker 5: That we are very much to think of these things
are all all one thing, or it's the same one,
whatever it is.
Speaker 1: So now you can go where you want the opportunity
over here.
Speaker 6: So my one real ghost sighting, So there was a
gentleman who lived here in Michigan.
Speaker 2: His name was David K. Wood. Steve would remember.
Speaker 6: Him, and he passed from cancer unfortunately. Gosh, it was
it was like fifteen years ago maybe, and actually I
think it was closer to twenty years now, and I
was good friends with him, and a lot of people
who were good friends with him all had encounters of
when he was passing that they were visited by him.
And in my case, I was laying in bed and
I woke up and there's this shaft of light at
the foot of the bed, and it was there was
no shape to it, it was just shaft of light,
and I heard David's voice. It was he had a
very distinctive voice, and I heard his voice say, whatever
doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and whatever kills you
makes you stronger. And then the light just sort of
faded away and disappeared, and so I thought at that point,
like I'm like, my gosh, David's dead. He didn't actually
pass until the next day. He was in a coma
for about a week his last week of life, and
a mutual friend of ours land he said he also
had visited her, and so, you know, I thought he
was maybe while he was still somewhat tethered going and
you know, on his goodbye to her, saying goodbye to
everybody before he wasn't you know, he didn't have the
passport to come.
Speaker 2: Back any longer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, how having had all these experiences and much
time to think about them, Uh, do you feel that,
like Andy was mentioning, that these things are many of
these things are connected and aren't you know, completely distinct
like ets or or physical nuts and bolts, entities, ghosts
or something different, you know, and so cryptids or something different. Myself,
I tend to think that there's sort of a duality.
I think some of these things, you know, I've gone
back to the idea that some of the beings, the
craft or whatever may actually be physical, but and many
of the other ones are much more in the realm
of Archelian or or something that a Kiel and Jacques
Folly would would describe. So do have you had any
time to kind of process that and you know and
have kind of a general overview of what's going on?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 6: So all right, So first of all, I'll mention two experiences.
I mentioned this I had on my arm that came
when I was seven. I was brought on board, I
was placed in a chair that I couldn't even though
I wasn't strapped to it, I couldn't move from it.
And yeah, they sliced my arm. I don't know why.
That was a very strange thing to do to me.
And you know, over the years, of course, I see
other people with these physical markings that come from their encounters.
So there's very clearly a physical aspect to this besides
me and my friends seeing the UFOs things like that.
And I could think of other physical, very physical examples.
My four year old experience. They came into my room
and they pulled me out of body, and they wanted
to see how I could operate independently apart from my body,
and they seemed to be satisfied, and they popped me
back in my body. I'm giving fairly edited versions of
these accounts, but you can buy my book and learn
both books.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So, so I've had these experiences where I've been out
of body and I've been in body. And I think
my theory is that these beings probably went through uh
evolution up to and beyond our point, and their technology
reached a point where they were able to at some
point whole consciousness out of a physical form and pop
it into something or somebody else. That and I think
that if you follow technology, you know, I would say
some if there is some sort of electro thing, spirit soul,
kind of energy thing in us, running us that at
some point that specific part of us might be.
Speaker 2: Able to be isolated and transferred to somebody else.
Speaker 6: Although in more mentality seekers out there dumping millions into
the you know, the research for it, et cetera. And
so when their society realized that they could do this,
they realize that the body is essentially no more than
a vehicle that they could drive when they needed to.
Speaker 2: And so I think that some of.
Speaker 6: The beings, if that's what you want to call it,
are actually non corporeal. They exist in sort of a
etheric or energy state, which is like just really saying
that they're ghosts, which is they're this psychic energy that
when they need to be physical, they have these drones,
these grays that they pop themselves into, and then they
can interact with us physically when they need to, and
when they don't need to be physical, then they can
communicate with us directly, telepathically, pull us out of body,
things like that.
Speaker 2: And then if they're just.
Speaker 6: Sort of energy and ghosts are and energy and foot
seems to be able to jump in and out of physicality,
you really just have this giant, you know, cosmic etheric
pool that is lowering itself its physical vibration to interact
with us in our dumb stage of evolution before they
go back to their natural state. I just recently read
a book. It's called Angst in the Shadows. It's by
a gentleman by the name of Eric Nansteel, who I've
had the pleasure to meet. He's actually going to be
featured in Ancient Aliens this season, their second episode, so
in about a week, and he posits, based upon his experiences,
that he thinks that the beings, that the Grays are
lacking a soul, like at some point evolutionarily they integrated
so much with technology that the soul just seemed to
slip away from them, and that they're interested in us
because we have souls and.
Speaker 2: They value that.
Speaker 6: So which is kind of the counterpoint to the type
of experiences that I'm having, but shows that really the
jury is still out on what exactly is going on.
But I don't think they're physical by nature. I think
they're just physical when they need to interact.
Speaker 1: With us, and why what's their fascination with us? If
in fact, there's something like a million incidents over time
what the hell are they doing? I mean, don't they
have any other hobbies? What's going on?
Speaker 6: So you know, you know when I when I sort
of try to like ease into the phenomena, float in it,
see what makes sense, not not look at anything critically,
look at data, and just let it sort of all
sink in. I'm one of those people that have come
to the belief that they put us here originally, that
maybe they either picked on some previous form of ape
that was on the planet, or they just outright dropped
us here on Earth, and that we're their creations, and
being their creations, they look after us, they come back
and visit us again, and that there's a foundation to
the phenomena. It's really with them, it's about the reproduction.
They're trying to figure out how to make us out
in space, maybe a version of us and some sort
of gray being out in space. Maybe one day that
hybrid race will come and take over the Earth. Maybe
they'll just exist on other planets. But that seems to
be a key point of what they're dabbling in. Why
would somebody who has the freedom of an etheric existence
be so fascinated with a physical existence.
Speaker 2: I don't know because they can maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: One time, did I just interrupt somebody? Okay, uh just
just blurred in? What time you and I were having
a discussion and I told you how how little I
experienced and you told me that sometimes friends of yours
that were in that same situation, if the more time
they spent, you know, in your company, hanging around with you,
sometimes they would begin to have experiences, what psychic experiences
or whatever outside themselves.
Speaker 2: I can think of a handful of people that that's happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you should charge.
Speaker 6: And another thing that I think brings in if we're
just talking about phenomena in general, I don't know anybody
who has really taken the time to hone their skills
as a remote viewer, and I mean really invest themselves
in it. I don't know anybody who hasn't started having
really bonkers stuff happened to them. And that is yeah,
just it's been a universal thing. If somebody says, yeah,
you know, I tried a little bit of remote viewing,
you know, you know whatever I mean, I'm talking about
the people that are are that's their thing. You know,
they always have the strangest stories and yeah, it.
Speaker 3: Would have been nice for you to tell me that
about six months ago.
Speaker 1: So have you been doing remote viewing Susie?
Speaker 3: It was after Oh, you're gonna get his name before
I do, Steve, we interviewed the the the Black Matter,
Bigfoot guy Simeon.
Speaker 1: Oh, doctor Simeon Hine.
Speaker 3: Yes, it was after we we we met him over
on Max that I started, uh toying with that. And
I have to mention again, I'm very envious of Bill's
friend who was looking for ghosts and found a puck wedge,
because I look for puck wedgies and keep finding ghosts.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it has been.
Speaker 3: I I had experiences before, but they've definitely ramped up
since then. I've had a very interesting summer. We'll have
to talk about it, Steve and Andy on another night
because that's probably an hour by itself. But that had
what you just said has been my experience as well.
Speaker 1: So we could Andy, we could interview Susie and uh
we wouldn't have to pay her absolutely, Bill. Joe, Yeah,
don't worry. The check is it's either going to hit
Michigan or Indiana somewhere in the Midwest.
Speaker 2: Don't worry.
Speaker 1: Joe mcmonagall one of the big name military remote viewers
written several books. He told the story one time and
he said he was, and of course he was. He's
a gifted psychic. He was maybe maybe the best remote
viewer next to inco Swan, I don't know. But he's
lying in bed one time and this lizard thing a
few feet tall, were a couple of feet tall, walking
on two legs, walks into his bedroom at the foot
of the bed and is looking at him, and the
cat alerted on it. This thing turned around and went
to the door and went into the bathroom, and the
cat followed it in there, and then apparently it vanished.
And he has no explanation. It was funny because, of course,
you remember Rosemary Ellen Guiley, who we lost a few
years ago. I told that story and she says, oh, yeah,
I was with Joe when he told that. In person.
I'm thinking, oh, you know, I just read about this stuff.
Other people actually know these people, but yeah, they that's true.
And I have dabbled with remote viewing a little bit,
had some minor success. Its fascinated about it when I was,
you know, listening to Art Bell in the old days
on Coast to Coast a m and would just would
love to be able to be good at it or
I could so I could know things. That's what that's
what it is. It's a tool to know things. And
I did some by the way, I won't belabor this,
but I, uh, there was a period of time a
few years ago where I caught myself lucid dreaming several times.
So when I would do that, I would have a
command ready h and I would, you know, would give
that command because I wanted to remote because I heard
that Joe mcmonagall would could remote view when he was
uh lucid dreaming. Of course he had all the skills.
So I would give a command like mars or whatever,
and I'd always feel this, uh this motion. It'd be
dark and I feel like I was going somewhere, and
then I would actually see something would come into view.
And I'm pretty sure it was all out of my
uh careative imagination. But yeah, that was. So have you
have you uh practiced remote viewing uh as a discipline?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I first picked it up. I don't even know
if it's still out there doing it thing, but I imagine
it probably is in some version. I learned off of
Courtney Brown's website, okay, online free course. And then when
I was the far site, yeah, fire sight or or
farsight dot org, I think yeah. And after that I
started accepting targets from people and yeah, I got enough targets,
just just nailed enough targets. Times I was way off,
like nowhere close, right, But I mean the odds of
ever being right once right when you just you know,
here's a bunch of numbers, what is that?
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, it's this sting.
Speaker 6: It is that, and that it convinced me that that
it's valid. And then I started thinking, I'm like, well,
I'm at a point where I invest either invest a
whole lot more into this and get better at it,
or I you know, or I just kind of stopped
because I realized that it's going to be time considered, and.
Speaker 2: I asked myself, you know, what would I do with this?
Speaker 6: And while that question just sort of hung there, I'm like, Okay,
if I can think of a really good reason to
dive into it hardcore, I'll come back to it. But
otherwise I just kind of said, okay, I know it exists.
That's that's good enough for me.
Speaker 1: Right now, you know one of the things that you're
providing with Michigan New Fon. I mean, we've all talked
to people that have had experiences and at one point
they've been completely alone, you know, ordinary people experiencing extraordinary
situations like you have. But and until they know they
have a place they can go to tell other people
about their experiences or to kind of network with others,
they can feel pretty alone. So the having a group
like Michigan New font And I know from sitting there
during those brunches where that there's one lady told me
she was traveling westbound and I ninety four in the
Kalamazoo Portage area that's a really busy area and near
Western Edge Avenue, and she said, all of a sudden,
everything was like she was in a I mean she
was driving daylight. Everything she was in a fog. It
looked looked it was wasn't clear in front of her
or back of her. She didn't know whether to hit
the accelerator or hit the brakes. And then she came
out of it on the freeway driving and it was
like she had missing time on a busy freeway, you know,
and what you know, what if she didn't have a
place or a resource to go to to talk to
other people about that bizarre experience, she might think she
was just losing her mind.
Speaker 6: So I think if she didn't have a place to
go to, like move on, someplace that she was familiar
with that she could go to, that she would be
like ninety nine percent of everybody who has these type
of experiences, they just don't have some place to go to.
What I do maybe about twenty five thirty library talks
every year within again about the phenomena, And when I ask,
people raise their hand how many people have heard of mufan, it's,
you know, out of a group of like forty to
fifty people as it usually is, maybe one or two
have heard of it, really, and so I mean that
that is common people have an interest in the phenomena,
and a lot of people during the Q and a
afterwards they bring up their own personal stories and they've
never heard of a group like this, So that means
they're like the vast majority of people who are having
strange things happen to them never reach out to somebody
they don't know and share their story, even if it
could be a non anonymous or confidential So I think, yeah, this,
you know, weird stuff happens everywhere all the time. And
in fact, you know, I'm going to go even a
little bit further in that when people talk about different
areas that are high encounter areas to high event areas,
that I think that it's just a matter of almost
an art putting an artificial line somewhere around a geographical location,
and that if you expend it, you're still going to
get about the same number of phenomena. And if you
put this like triangle, circle, square, whatever you want anywhere
and you look, you're going to find a ton of
paranormal phenomena. And I know that John Tenny very dup
Belye believes this as well. We definitely concur on this
that you know, within mouf on my the data that
comes in, it really just shows wherever there's more people,
more people report things, and at the phenomena seems to
phenomena in general seems to happen everywhere.
Speaker 3: I've always wondered, is it just that there has been
one person that came forward in an area that made
other people feel more comfortable to share their experiences, and
that's where we kind of get these triangles or hot spots.
It's just because people. One person kind of had thehon
ase to speak about it, and then that made other
people feel comfortable to speak out.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think so, very definitely anytime somebody somehow, and
I never can figure out why some people get on
the news with their sightings when they get on the
news with mediocre sidings at best, when all of these
great sightings somehow never reached the news. But in the
comment section, if you go to the website version of
these stories, in the comment section, there's tons of people
saying that they've had stuff happen to It definitely draws
people out.
Speaker 2: And I think a.
Speaker 6: Very visible example of this in the UFO phenomena. Anyways,
the recent drone flat like New Jersey or whatever, a
couple of people saw drones, somehow made it into the news.
Now other people were saying that they saw drones. And
then anytime anybody saw something they didn't know what it was,
be it a plane or a shooting star or whatever,
they were calling it a drone and suddenly drone, grown, drone, drone, drone,
and it's the story blew up and blew up and
blew up. And then much like the balloon story from
a couple of years prior. He just disappeared as suddenly
as it sprang up. You had all of these elected
officials saying that the federal government owed them an explanation,
stories of these drones, if you will, flying over military bases,
affecting you know, the FAA's duties, and all sorts of
stuff like that, and then just nobody talked about it.
Just all went away overnight. But yeah, that's a case
of where somebody talks about something and then soon everybody's
talking about it.
Speaker 1: You mentioned John Tinney, a great, really good guy, fascinating guy,
great lecturer and author. He told the story. He lives
in Royal Oak, Michigan, to the suburb next to the
one I grew up in, and one time he was
on the streets. It's in daylight downtown Royal Oak. He
looks up and he sees an object, a metallic object
in the sky, and he's trying to get other people's
attention to look at it, and nobody cares or they
don't see it or whatever. But he looks down the
street and he sees a young girl looking up and
she's focused on it. So there's like two people in
this crowd of people that can see this thing and
care about it. So it was just bizarre the way
that these things sort of I don't know, revealed themselves
to certain people. How do you feel these days that
FON Euphon's always been pretty good handling basic reports and
cataloging them. But do they pay much attention, I mean,
the general organization to the high strangest aspects of some
of these things.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 6: So the way that when I joined Moufon in ninety three,
Shirley Coin was not only the Michigan State director, she
was also the director of abduction investigations for move On and.
Speaker 2: The group sort of.
Speaker 6: When she left it took a while before them to
get some solid traction again. And then Kathy Martin was
the name of the woman started up the Abduction Research Team,
which then became the Experiencer Research Team, which became the
Experience or.
Speaker 2: Resource Team, and now the ERT.
Speaker 6: It has several investigators that are dedicated to looking at
contact cases and cases that aren't just straightforward UFOs and
so as as a member of the group, I can't
say I'm a.
Speaker 2: Veteran investigator of it.
Speaker 6: The the stuff that takes up a lot of my
time is often outside actually move On's scope. But looking
at a lot of these cases that come in, yeah,
they're all over the place there, I mean they're somebody.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: People will report demons and just all sorts of other
strange phenomena, and and we do our best to to
try to look into the at least the UFO or
contact aspect of it. But people report all sorts of
other things, and I mean there our charge is to
investigate UFO sighting, so we try not to get too
far from that. I remember when this was before Zoom.
It was on a conference call a couple like nearly
twenty years ago. Jan Harzen, the international director at the time,
said okay, we got to stop looking into bigfoot sightings.
Speaker 2: We're not a bigfoot group, we're a UFO group.
Speaker 6: And so somebody said on the call, well, what if
a bigfoot's being seen in the same area as UFOs
And he's like, well, that's simple.
Speaker 2: We investigate the UFOs.
Speaker 6: The bigfoot stuff goes to the bigfoot people, and someone says, well,
what if somebody sees the UFO and a bigfoot at
the same time. He's like, well, then great, we investigate
the UFO, they investigate Bigfoot. And then someone else says, well,
what if somebody sees Bigfoot coming off of a UFO,
And Jan again says he's like, He's like, well, of course,
we investigate the UFO, they investigate Bigfoot, And so that's
when I jumped in. I said, well, isn't this technically
an entity coming off a craft? So what you're saying
is that we investigate alien sidings, but they better not
have long hair.
Speaker 3: And that's like say, like me being a detective and saying,
I'm going to investigate this drug deal and ignore that
body that was clearly murdered.
Speaker 1: Over in the corner.
Speaker 3: Like the evidence that goes together sometimes you can't separate it.
Speaker 1: That's true, it could have been a domestic dispute.
Speaker 6: So like it reminds me of Also the Kinross incident
nineteen fifty three happened in over Lake Superior here in Michigan.
The was a UFO was spotted on radar over the
Sioux Locks. They scrambled an F eighty nine Scorpion jet,
which pursued it out over Lake Superior. They watched on
radars as the jet and the object intersected and then both.
Speaker 2: Dis appeared forever. They never found the plane.
Speaker 6: So Project Blue Book came in and asked, oh, what
did the UFO look like? And they're like, we only
saw it on our radar. And so they said, well
then we're just going to.
Speaker 2: Say you had a faulty radar.
Speaker 6: They're like, well, what about those pilots that went down
or whatever happened to them over the lake.
Speaker 2: And they're like, what's that got to do with your
faulty radar? If nobody saw it, all you have is
this radar.
Speaker 6: And and so the accident report from the Air Force
claimed that the pilots probably went down due to piland vertigo,
and they don't include the UFO spotted on the radar.
So you have the UFO report saying faulty radar. Yeah,
the accident report saying is probably vertigo and not mentioning
what was seen on the radar.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Didn't did John Chitty follow that case? And yeah, he
finally got the widow the back pay of her husband
disappeared and correct me if I'm wrong. I think he Yeah,
there's a a stone or a marker in a cemetery
or about that incident, and it says something to the
fact that gives his name. Uh, he died defending the
Earth from extraterrestrials or something like that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was Felix Mankla, the guy who was actually
the pilot. Robert Wilson was the other person in the plane.
And yeah, so Don in Louisiana, they have a little
memorial erected to him, and it said that he died
intercepting a UFO over the water. It wasn't as dramatic
as you put it. I like your story better, but.
Speaker 1: Well, it was so cool that he, after all these decades,
he was instrumental in getting that woman her the money
that she deserved from her husband being in the military.
So he tells the story much better than than you
and I do. But yes, yeah, he's he's quite an
interesting gentleman. Andy, SU's any any other further questions, I know,
And he's looking at the clock on the wall and
he no.
Speaker 4: But now, just I mean, I've got something fall again. Now.
Speaker 5: Of course, your own first experiences, I found them actually fascinating.
Listening to another broadcast earlier today, my question is how
do you stay sane?
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, I've known Bill for quite
a while He's a very easygoing, chilled out guy, and
he appears to be very sane to me.
Speaker 2: Record, that's all. You need.
Speaker 5: A few accounts that kind of thing before about this
sort of thing, because I mean him have to bear
to offload a lot of this stuff to people. I mean,
I'm alled psychotherapist, so I can understand sort of workers
of the mind with extraordinary experiences. I mean I have
had clients in the past who've had extraordinary experiences you know.
I mean don't just mean sort of their life to this,
I mean really real panel experiences to do for these
to talk about, to talk to people about it.
Speaker 6: So well, me, I got three things to pull from
what you had just said there, starting with the most
recent thing. There are a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists
who take an interest in this phenomena and will attend
meetings from reach out to me directly. Sometimes will attend
experience or get togethers that sort of thing, and without
asking them.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't say do you think I'm normal?
I seem normal?
Speaker 6: You know, well, they they sometimes volunteer that an interesting
thing that I did several years ago. I've well, for
one of the TV shows I was on I did
the Minnesota Multi Phasic Personality Index. I think that's what
the ICE stands for, and it was a personality test whatever.
It said that I'm not fantasy prone, but I have
encountered some degree of PTSD. Another time, there was an
experiment done by some doctors at a hospital in Detroit
where they wanted me to stay three nights in the
hospital all wired up to see if there was anything
funky with my sleep pattern. They were looking at that
as a possible reason for people claiming these sort of things,
and they they found enough abductees' experiencers to rub together
to have a test group, and then they also had
a control group. I don't know how many people were
in each group whatever, so I just knew I slept
there for three nights, and then afterwards, during the personal
debrief I got, they said that I kind of blew
their experiment because I had a better sleep pattern than
not only the rest of the experiencers but also the
control group.
Speaker 2: I had the best sleep out.
Speaker 6: Of anybody on either side of it, which which kind
of amused me. But so yeah, they you know, they
you know they they're in the group. You know I
share fully and you know I've gotten that sort of
informal approval that I'm just not nuts. But you know, anyway,
the other thing I think is interesting about it was that, gosh,
I'm trying to think of the other two things.
Speaker 2: That you brought up. Oh oh yeah, so about being
about being?
Speaker 6: You know how I handle this because this is a lot,
This is a handful, and when you go out looking
for information on it, you have a lot of people
with their own pet theories about what's going on, and
a lot of times it doesn't speak to you at all. Like,
for example, when people talk about the galactic counsel or
arcurians and things like that, I'm like, I have no
idea what you're talking about. This does not resonate with
me at all.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's just there's these perspectives and.
Speaker 6: They try to, you know, say, oh, you know this
is this is what's happening to you. I'm like, nope,
you know, you haven't. You haven't experienced what I experienced.
But since it's happened to me since my very first
memory in life, it's always been with me. This is
foundational to who I am. People who have these type
of experiences for the first time later in life, say
they're in their twenties, thirties, forties, whatever, and they have
their first encounter. It could be just devastating to them,
especially if they haven't thought about the subject, especially if
they've chosen to dismiss this subject and they have something
that says, you know, all of your life, you've built
this story and then flu it's gone, and now you
have to accept this as reality and rethink the way
you've thought about everything your entire life. But as a kid,
you know, incrementally, I'm integrating my encounters with my life,
and so again after fifty years, it's it's that's what
it is. And also it means I've been talking about
my stuff publicly since nineteen ninety nine, so I've had
a lot of opportunity.
Speaker 2: Just it's cathartic.
Speaker 6: Say it over and over and over again, and it
becomes easier every time. I was once on a podcast,
it was out of England, so I don't know if
this is a big podcast or what or the women
that run the show are known. I forget their names,
but two women were the hosts of the show and
they invited me to be on as a guest, and
so they're like, so you know, what do you do?
And I said, well, I'm State Director of Michigan MOFON
and they're like, move on.
Speaker 2: What's that?
Speaker 6: So I'm like, okay, I'm either brought on a show
because of mofon or because of my personal stuff in
a nutshell, and so I'm like, okay, don't know about mofon.
Here's stuff about mofon, blah blah blah. And then they're like, oh,
have you ever seen a UFO yourself? I'm like, so
they don't know about move On and they don't know
about my experiences, but they invited me on their show.
I'm like and and and I'm like why did they
invite me on?
Speaker 2: So anyway, so I start talking.
Speaker 6: About my abductions and after however, several minutes, one of
the women said, your stories are very fascinating, but I
can't see as I believe you.
Speaker 2: And this is the first. This never happens to me.
Speaker 6: Nobody ever just comes out and says that, let alone
on a podcast. And so I'm like, oh, that's a first.
And so I mean, people may or may not believe it,
but to be that blunt is different for me.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, English people were supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Yes upper lip, but they gave them a lot of crap.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: So after she said that, you know, I don't believe you.
And and she says, and the reason I don't believe
you is because when you tell your story, you're not
breaking up emotionally as you tell it. There's no sort
of emotional underpinning. Like I'm just like, you know, revealing,
Oh my gosh. And then they took me, uh, you know,
and so and so, and you know, I'm like, well,
I mean, you look at Travis Walton, who now has
been who I mean, his story literally happened fifty years ago.
Speaker 2: He's been telling his story for fifty years.
Speaker 6: And and so now I mean, like how many how
many times has he told that story?
Speaker 2: He's not going to break up every single time he
tells it. Oh, I was just close to having a
cat on screen too. You can do it. Come on, Ouigi,
come on, Oigi, it's your turn. It's your turn.
Speaker 1: Three cats.
Speaker 2: We got a cat, Tricky.
Speaker 1: How many cats?
Speaker 2: Bill got two?
Speaker 6: Mario and Luigi the kids named him.
Speaker 1: Susie has two. I have six, But that's another story.
But anyway, go go ahead, continue with the podcast with
the ladies that didn't believe you.
Speaker 2: That you know, and so I don't think it just
wrapped up at that point. I don't know.
Speaker 6: This was several years ago and I didn't get a
recording of it, so and like I said, I don't
remember their names. But yeah, it was definitely one of
the weirdest ones. I just could never figure out why
they invited me in the first place.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny because it's it's trauma in general, right,
Like you can be at different points in how you've
dealt with the trauma and how you've processed it. But I, well,
I haven't had your experiences. I have someone went to
prison for attempted murder for something that happen and to me,
I'll just say the summarize. But I have had people
say the exact same thing to me about it and say, like,
you're not showing emotion at all right now when you're
telling this story. So I don't think that happening. I'm like,
I've got court records, you know, but that it is
some people's reactions if you don't get emotional, they think
you're lying the expectations.
Speaker 5: It's a certain way. It's dictated that you must. It's
like you have to react the way they think you're
supposed to react if.
Speaker 3: You don't, and it's never right whatever you do.
Speaker 5: Ridiculous as a therapists and all sorts of nazis stories
from clients who've been very calm and acted and explaining
it because they have talked about it before. You know,
you don't have the bustinances every time explains something traumatic.
Speaker 6: So I have a just a follow up to that
if we have time. I don't know how we're going.
Speaker 2: But so this was about fifteen years ago. I was invited.
Speaker 6: To be a part of a pilot where they the
idea for the show was a half hour show. I
think it was half hour where they would have two
abductees every show. And so the production company flew me
out to New York and I was I was supposed
to be regressed on the show, which I've been regressed before,
and I be regressed, and I'm so, you know, this
is fine, you know, it was an honor to be
I never knew who the other person they selected was.
They weren't there at the time, but so when I
was there when we were about to film, like who's
the person that's supposed to regress me. And this one
guy says, you know, I'm the one that's going to
regress you. I'm like, okay, cool, I'm like, what what
background do you have with this phenomena? And he says,
I have no background with this phenomena. That makes me so,
you know, impartial. I'm like, okay, sure, that's fine. I said,
you know that, just you know know that I'm probably
gonna be okay. But if you continue to do this,
you know, and he's like, no, I worked with veterans.
Speaker 2: I've got this. I'm like okay.
Speaker 6: So we go and I sit on the couch, and
all of the other times I've ever been regressed, you know,
you ease back and you slowly relieve the tension and
you'd sort of drift into the state of regression.
Speaker 2: This guy did it a little bit different.
Speaker 6: I was he I was sitting on the couch and
then they were filming and he's like, all right, they're
gonna you know, he's gonna regress, you know.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, I'm sitting up here. This is different.
Speaker 6: And and he's like and he puts out his palm
and he's like, put your hand in my head in
my palm, so I did, and then he like threw
me back into the couch and he yelled a sleep
and I'm like, that's.
Speaker 2: Because it's like a typical joke show or something.
Speaker 6: And I'm like he, I mean that was his technique,
like grab my head, throw me in the couch, and
yell sleep.
Speaker 5: Like the therapy as well. It is a technique. It's
got a particular name which I've forgotten, but it doesn't
work with a lot of people. It's one of those
it's a shock tactic one that he can work his
some but you need the good old fashioned gradual progression.
Relaxation is far more effective than that.
Speaker 1: I hope he wasn't doing that the combat veterans, But
go ahead, and I get.
Speaker 6: A text, so so here's the thing. So then I
start going over some of the stuff that happened to me.
Now I can't really say that anything new came out
of it, but I was just you know, hitting the
greatest hits, so to speak. And then they they they
paused it. The production crew. We lunch and they came
back and they said, all right, we're going to need
you to cry, and I'm like, cry, like, yeah, when
we when we regrets you, when you tell your story,
we need if if if you you know, if you're
professional actor, whatever, you know, just bring those tears.
Speaker 2: If not, do your best. I'm like, I don't think
I could cry.
Speaker 6: And at that point, they just were very distant and
they they knew that we were never going to get
I was never going to give.
Speaker 2: Them what they wanted.
Speaker 6: And and then the show never aired as far as
I know, And yeah, that's just really strange.
Speaker 2: They needed me to cry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I said, that seems to be rampant in uh.
Another somebody I know that I won't mention his name.
He was in one of the well known uh uh
so called reality uh paranormal shows some years ago and
he came out of the house and they told him, oh, okay,
now you have to have to say there's a demon
in that house. And he said, but there is no
demon in that house. And so they argued back and
forth and they cut him out of the show. So that, unfortunately,
is something that happens quite a bit.
Speaker 4: I think I.
Speaker 3: Should get a job on one of those shows because
I can make people cry.
Speaker 1: And I don't doubt her either.
Speaker 6: I actually do a presentation on the mishaps I've had
with television. There's so many. Another one, National Geographic flew
me out to Roswell interviewed me in the Roswell Museum,
and then after about three hours, the director said that
they wouldn't be able to use my material because they
were actually bringing me on to be the strange kookie
guy on the show and that I didn't Yeah, I
wasn't cookie enough for them. He's like, the way he
put it was, he goes, So here's the thing. He goes,
I believe you. He goes, I didn't know what to
think about this. He goes, I don't really know a
lot about this, but he goes, I believe that these
things that you say happen to you, happen to you,
and that's why we can't use you.
Speaker 3: And yeah, your hair is too neat. You have to
mess it up.
Speaker 1: And it helps if you diet two different colors.
Speaker 2: Mhm wow.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe maybe we should have you back, Bill and
you can kind of do a version of that talk
about the TV mishaps, because that would be well, it
would be entertaining and also it would be it's typically
go ahead.
Speaker 2: Now, I'm just and That's what I've said to the
tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 1: If so many people buy into all this, and you know,
most of us will watch it, watch some of them
for entertainment purposes, but there's that one part of our
brain that's going, Okay, you know what's staged here and
what's nonsense. Of course, some go all the way, like
Mountain Monsters, and there's not a shred of truth to that.
I'll tell you my little story. I was here in
Point Pleasant taking people's photographs by the Mothman statue and
answering questions inside the building. Some people came by and
one of them was related to John Tice, who played
Trapper in the Mountain Monsters TV show, and that person said,
how yep, they filmed it all on his property, and
you know, we were just laughing about some of the
episodes and the things they would make up, like the
Bigfoots teaming up with the Chupicabres in West Virginia. So
but anyway, it was was pretty pretty funny to hear
that from this person about all the just the way
they staged it. And then on the other hand, people
that just bought it with the line and snicker.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this woman at work once asked me. She's like,
she's like, how can I get my son to stop
watching these big foot shows?
Speaker 2: That was a great question.
Speaker 6: But speaking of the Mountain Monster show, I think that's
a show that I remember several years ago I found
I could trigger Fred Saluga by mentioning the name of
a TV show.
Speaker 2: I think that was a show. Yeah, that probably mentioned
like that show is terrible.
Speaker 1: Because at the Creature Weekend a few years ago, Uh,
they invited John Tice, I mean and and the guy,
and uh they they knew that Bruce Harrington knew that
he was that was all fake and everything, but just
just for fun. And then the next year he invited
all the Mountain Monster guys there. I think been at
the Mothman Festival a few times. Great guys, they stay
in character and uh, it's uh. I grew to love
the show the first time I watched their their Mothman
episode for about twenty minutes and I said, what is
this crap? They're not even not even getting the folk
floor right. And then I got it. I said, oh,
it's a mockumentary. They're just having fun. So after that
I was able to enjoy it. Hmm.
Speaker 2: Now Fred's great.
Speaker 6: I haven't talked to that guy, uncle Fred in so
many years.
Speaker 1: Well, I see him at the Butler. You can do
the Butler, their their weekend to speak and.
Speaker 2: Yeah a few times, Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: See Fred once in a while, and sometimes you'll show
up at the Mothman Festival. So so you'll have to
come down to Point Pleasant. But if you do, let
me know ahead of time, because right now my house
looks like a UFO crash site. So but I've got
to get it straight because a buddy of mine's coming
down from Tridelphia. He was here last year, so he
can't even get in the bedroom right now, there's too
many boxes. But anyway, it'd be great, great to have
you down to Point Pleasant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was there a couple of years ago.
Speaker 6: I stopped in the museum and you know, did the
photo shoot with the statue and the whole nine errands.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, well now you can. You can enjoy Mothman Black
Light Mini Gulf upstairs over the Point Pleasant Trading Company.
The graphics are phenomenal. You can do the escape room.
We have a MothNet escape room, which I refused to do.
If I fail, I'll never live it down and so
it's really, uh, it really has grown. But have you
ever been to the festival.
Speaker 6: No, you know, it's always fallen on something else that's
going on here in Michigan. And for the past several
years that was the same weekend as the UFO Contact,
although that's now now Contact is the twenty sixth, twenty
seventh this year, so not the same weekend. But still
I spent so much capital going to also of stuff
already this year that it's just one conference too many.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Well it's crazy crowded, so I tell people you
have to come off season as well so you can
get into the museum and move around a little bit.
But so, ladies and gentlemen, shall we close up the episode? Yeah, okay, Bill,
tell us how people can contact you all about Michigan
Upon and your books.
Speaker 2: Okay, for move I'll start with Mofon.
Speaker 6: Moufon is one UFO investigative group that will actually investigate
your siting when you report it to them. So please
go to moufon dot com if you see a UFO
and if you are interested investigating UFOs, there's no better
place to go than move On to learn how to
become a Field Investigator. Also at moufon dot com. If
you happen to be in Michigan, am im ufon dot
Org is our state site and basically it's a UFO lodge.
Many states have them, so maybe check out your own
state to see what they offer. And I do have
two books, Experiencer Race in Two Worlds, which is about
my first twenty years of life, growing up with this
phenomena in my life, and then I have a Experience
or Two Two Worlds Clyde, which is about the next
five years of my life, very intense period.
Speaker 2: Of my life.
Speaker 6: And I have enough material for a third book, but
that'll probably be down the road a little bit before
I put that out. I'm on Facebook, so please hit
me up there. I have a website Experiencer dot me,
so Experiencer dot e, which I don't update as often
as I should, but I'm an easy target if you
need want to reach out to me, especially if you
have abduction encounters.
Speaker 2: I'd love to powell about that with you.
Speaker 1: Excellent, Well, Bill, I really appreciate you coming on the show,
Susie Andy. Any closing words.
Speaker 5: No, it's not actually fascinating talking to you. I sends
you a friend request, and we're already friends, so that
you know.
Speaker 1: And of course Susie and.
Speaker 3: I just like to say, if you'd like to pass
along that pack draw feel free.
Speaker 1: Oh I tell him? Tell him again.
Speaker 3: Where he can do that, Well, he can just ask
you for my email, but anyone else can go toospot
dot com.
Speaker 1: Yes, and remember you cannot find Susie on Facebook because
she often hides in the shadows.
Speaker 3: And all of my hate mail goes to Steve Ward,
who is always available.
Speaker 1: On And I can't tell you how much I enjoy it.
I reply, it's just I'm if I'm Susie and I
really get them angry, you know, Okay.
Speaker 2: Can I can?
Speaker 1: I just see?
Speaker 2: This one is really great?
Speaker 1: So John Lee, Oh, okay, John Lee is the guy
that's coming down to visit during Mothmath. Go ahead.
Speaker 6: So so John Lee and Steve they had this great banter.
Wherever you can catch them together in the same place
on social media, it's a real treat to watch you
and John Pope jabs at each other. And I thought
this was my all time favorite. Back when Steve was
still in Michigan, Steve put out He's like, hey, I'm
thinking about putting together like a weird Michigan tour, and
John responded, yeah, and the tour is Steve.
Speaker 1: Yes, Well, John and I are a bit twisted and
somehow there's some kind of strange harmonic that goes on
there that people have not been able to figure out.
Speaker 4: But very good.
Speaker 1: Yes, so watch for that on Facebook. And of course, Susie,
you can't see you on Facebook. You can't see all
my my my equips, my my humor, my my, my
deep thoughts. I guess I'll just have to send you
an email perfect.
Speaker 3: I will not be shamed back onto Facebook. But nice try.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well I tried it all right. The High Strangers
Factor was created by Steve Ward and Andy Mercer and
it's got You writed on the Paranormal UK Radio Network.
Irene Alan block, Mark Johnson and Andy Mercer helm the
network and he is also producer of this show and
others on Paranormal UK Radio. He has also composed the
closing theme for the show, and Brian Zeller composed the
opening theme for The High Strangest Factor. Susie Fastial provided
the streamyr connection so you can actually hear us. You
can also hear me weekly on mcmloney's Military X files
on the same network and many other platforms. As I
mentioned earlier, I'm going to be the MC at the
Mockman Festival coming up the twentieth and twenty first of September,
and I also will be speaking at two pm Sunday
on the High Strangious Aspects of a lot Nest Monster.
Two pm Sunday is what everybody's driving home, so maybe
maybe they'll broadcast it. I don't know, uh. And I'm
also going to be the next weekend out in Van Meter,
Iowa at the Van Meter Visitor Festival as an mc
if I. After being exhausted and taking down all the creatures,
I'm putting up in the tt area for the Mothman
hay Ride. And I am Steve Wards, your uncle host
here on the high Strangest Factor displaced Michigander deep in
the Ohio Valley, standing watch on the same road that
Mothman chased cars in the mid sixties. Andy, Susie and
I will see you all again in a fortnight. Take
care