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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host,

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and I'm really looking forward to the guests this evening.

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I met him out in Dallas this summer at the

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Moufon event, and I thought he was a great speaker,

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and he really digs right into all the Texas UFO cases.

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So I'm really glad to have him. I'm glad to

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be here actually on election night, so you can and

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us people that is, you can escape for a little

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while you're a election anxiety. So here we are, and

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as people that know me here, I don't talk about

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politics on this show, and I'm glad not to. I

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need to escape from it too. So anyway we are here.

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Speaker 2: On this night.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the amount of traffic people are

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going to be watching it live.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully it's the.

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Speaker 1: Same as usual, maybe more, we'll see. But the blog

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this week actually pertains to one of the topics we're

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going to be talking about. Charles Lear wrote a blog

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this week and it is called a pro that's ap

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ro mof on in the cash Lander case, which those

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of you who have been watching my show for a

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long time, you know that I was one of the

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very few people to get Colby Landram on this show here,

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and that was some time ago, and it was a

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pretty good interview. As far as I know, I've reached

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out to him a number of times and he's not

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doing any podcasts or anything as far as I know.

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Let's see merchandise, so we have some people ordering the

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T shirts I help you, and you know, take a look.

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It's over at podcastufo dot com where our blogs are

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and other information, and you'll see the merchandise there and

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it's reasonably cost a podcast Ufo merchandise, So check that

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out when you can. And all want to thank everyone

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that helps out with the show. There's so many people.

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I'll just name a couple of the Donna Donna Is

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helps as the producer and does a lot of work

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out behind the scenes. I have all these people that

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have been helping a long time, Palmer Brock, Peggy Phil

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who's been helping me for a long time. There's so

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many people again, and I'm hoping I'm not missing anyone

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right now. Of course, Charles Lear helps out with these

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great blogs with information every single week, and anyway I

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think and I want to thank all those too. Right now,

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all you listening and all the people that support the show.

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Thank you so much. And here we are ready to

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bring in our guests.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Daniel, greeting, Save Martin. It's great to be able

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to finally be here with you. I know, we talked

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about this for a few months now, and it's awesome

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to be on the show with you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, it was quite quite difficult because you're

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a you're a drummer and a teacher, and you have

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you very busy schedule. So yeah, but I'm honored to

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have you on, and I really love the interaction you

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had when you were doing your talks. I thought you,

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you know, you know the topic extremely well and really

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reacted well with the audience as well. So anyway, glad

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you here. I'm surprised, I actually I was just saying

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this ahead of the show. I'm surprised I don't see

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you on a lot of TV programs because you're just

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so well versed in this.

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Speaker 3: Well. Thanks, you know. I had a great time with

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the events. It was a great opportunity to have it

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here in my hometown area, the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex,

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and you know, an awesome opportunity to kind of shed

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light on some of the lesser note and historical cases

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here in the Lone Star State. When it comes to multimedia,

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when it comes to all these different shows that are

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on network television and all that, it's interesting. I don't

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keep up with a whole lot these days, but it's

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not something that pops up a whole lot anymore. I

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would get a few pitches every once in a while,

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and it would be for some new and you know,

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interesting concept. But what it seems like, I think that

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most network television is interested in is the you know,

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a shared formula that seems to you know, be rehashing

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a lot of the old shows. And maybe there's nothing

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wrong with that necessarily, but it's something that becomes redundant

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after a while. I find that of an addition to

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my day job, which is, as you mentioned, a a

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private music teacher and a drummer. I am already busy

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enough with that, but I think that, you know, for

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the leisure time that I have, i'd really try to

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stay dedicated to research projects. And while I don't mind

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making appearances at events like we were at a few

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months ago, and I think it's important to help generate

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awareness in the community, not necessarily to advocate a particular

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you know, stance on believing certain things or anything really,

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but more than just bringing to attention some of the

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interesting parts of our history or you know, modern things

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that are going on in a way that can help

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us just understand from all angles. And so when it

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comes to the shows, I think they're curious, you know,

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as far as what they can do to stir the

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minds of interesting concepts. But at the same time, a

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lot of it becomes very much edited in post production,

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as you know, and ends up being taken out of

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context sometimes. So I'm not opposed to it, but it

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hasn't been something that's been at the top of my

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priorities lately. But it's a great way for people to

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become aware of topics that they otherwise might not be

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familiar with, or uns they go out of their way

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or someone else tells them about it. It's great to see.

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And I have a lot of friends that regularly appear

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on various programs as well, so that's cool to see

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them too.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, So I got to talk quickly about the

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yellow fant in the room, so I speak it's just

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because I've been getting a lot of email about two subjects.

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One is on Netflix recently dropped The Manhattan Alien the

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Abduction with Linda Napoleonos.

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Speaker 2: I believe that's how you.

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Speaker 1: Say your name something like that. So a lot of

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people wanted me to weigh in on that.

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Speaker 2: So to speak.

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Speaker 1: But I did watch. I did watch all the episodes

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on that. I don't know how popular my opinion is

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going to be. People are asking me about that, but

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I get really and a lot of people do not

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like my opinion of Bob Lazaire either. But when I

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see something that is absolutely there's deception scene that it

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makes me wonder about the whole case.

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Speaker 2: That's just the way. That's the way my nature is.

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Speaker 1: And for instance, when you see this supposed witnesses handwriting,

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and I do a lot of handwriting analysis for authenticating

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documents and things like that, and I'm telling you, the

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handwriting between Linda and the witnesses or at least two

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of them that they showed line up perfectly like it

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would be her handwriting. I got to tell you, So

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that makes me really wonder about that case. That being said,

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we'll put that. I will tell you it's a great production.

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It's very well done. Check it out on Netflix when

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you can, and it's the Manhattan Alien abductions.

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Speaker 2: The name of that.

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Speaker 1: The second one that people are contacting me. I'm sorry

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if you're taking the time on this, Daniel, but I

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thought it would be better to address this. The second

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one a lot of people are contacting me on is

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the image that lou Elizondo show during a Philadelphia presentation,

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and it's really just a reflection on I'm really surprised

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that he didn't vet this more carefully. It's a reflection

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of a light basically like a chandelier or a floor

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lamp or something on a window. And I've actually done

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a video on that reflections how they can. There's a

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famous one you see all the time in nineteen fifty

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I think it is in Massachusetts at like a Navy

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station or something like that, where you see these lights

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in a triangle formation. That's lights inside the building itself

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reflecting on the window, and that it's easily mistaken. But

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I just thought I was surprised that he mistaken mistakenly

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used that. And we'll just call it a mistake because

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I don't think there was any ill intentions at all.

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We'll just call it a mistake. But I thought i'd

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address it. I don't know if you want to chime

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in on any of that, but.

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Speaker 3: I'll just say that I think it's important to pay

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attention to the media being released, you know, and it's

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something that whether you like you mentioned, you know, whether

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you have a particular view on it or not, I

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think it's just good to be aware of what material

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is out, what's being promoted. And of course, with this

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recent issue with Elizondo, I'll actually be seeing him here

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in a few weeks. He's coming to Dallas on the twentieth,

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and I'll wonder if that's actually still in his presentation.

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I guess we'll find out. But I did see about that.

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You know, are very opinionated online and all I know,

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and there's a whole show that could be done about

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this situation. But I just do remember seeing that he

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made a response basically giving hats off to the internet

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of people who managed to figure this out. And I'm

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just thinking, wasn't he claiming to be the director of

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a program that investigated UFOs for the government and he's

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so it's very curious to think like this is something

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that has actually happened. But you know, here we are,

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And yeah, you know, it's still an ongoing book tour.

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As far as I'm concerned, he is going to be

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here and giving a similar presentation, So I'll just have

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to gauge what he does then, and you know, hopefully

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it gives me a different perspective in person.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm surprised, you know, in his tweet, I'm

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sure you saw that where he basically is apologizing and

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he's talking about how quickly that people found you know

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what it was. John Greenwald, I think is possibly the

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one that actually may have uncovered at that as a

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Facebook post. But he claims that, you know, someone from

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the government had given him this, and if that is true,

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then that also makes you wonder. This seems like someone

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trying to you know, discredit him. Possibly, I don't know,

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you know, that's I have an open mind about the

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whole thing. But you know, I mean, if he indeed

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trusted someone because of that image, then he's got to

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really question who it is he's trusting. Oh, definitely, no, yeah,

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but interesting. So let's uh, I want to ask you,

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what what do you think? I mean, there's so many

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great cases.

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Speaker 2: I was looking at all.

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Speaker 1: These cases in Texas so many great ones. What is

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your go to favorite? I'll's get here oft Oh.

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Speaker 3: Wow, Well, I think for most people who've ever followed

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along that's kept up with anything that I've been involved with,

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it's it's easy to just say Aurora. But there's a

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lot of reasons why I think it's it's something that,

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more than just the UFO case, is a fun part

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of history to look into. But aside from that, for

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you know, ones that I think really matter as far

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as what we can tangibly do, and not that there's

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nothing that can be done about Aurora, but I would

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say that, you know, one like the Stephenville case, a

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much more modern and very highly credible case, one that

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would sometimes be called a flap, you know, in some

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circumstances where you have a number of people witnessed an

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object tracked on radar, the military had a response to

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having F sixteen's pursuing or in proximity of the object,

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Law of morsement, move on, investigators, all this stuff, you know.

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So I think that this is a helpful way that

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we can see that it's a well documented case. Number

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of people in the town Stephenville, Texas, in the beginning

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of twenty two thousand and eight, and people still describe

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seeing things, and I think that there are maneuvers, military maneuvers.

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I see things, you know, where I live, far away

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from Stephenville in the Naval Reserve that those epics teams

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came from, is not too far from where I live

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and work. But I would say that it's important to

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keep in mind that this is a very possibly rare

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instance where people describe seing UFOs all the time, and

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in Texas, and it's hard to keep track of a

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lot of that. I have a network, a group that

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basically is just a networking hub. It's not necessarily an

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investigative group, but it's called the Texas UFO Network where

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people can share about things, and there's so much that happens.

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And I think just with things like Starlink satellites and

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Falcon launches and things like this, we have more. We

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have an influx of UFO reports in general, just because

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people well and I think, for a while, not be

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able to understand exactly what they're seeing. And because of

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those instances, I think there's a lot more noise, But

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it doesn't mean that they're not important to look into

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or to be able to look forward to the appropriate parties.

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But I would say that with something like Stephenville, the

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Stephenville UFO incident, there's been a number of media productions made,

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either documentary based or online podcasts and things that people

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have talked about. And this is what's really cool as well.

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If you want to show that picture, you're welcome to.

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This is myself and a buddy, a colleague of mine,

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Chase Howard. We went to the first ever and maybe

249
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only ever, what they call the et Festiveville last year.

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The Chamber of Commerce or merchants in the downtown areas

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is held on the Historic Square. They decided to put

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together an event that sort of commemorates a bit of

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their weirder history that for a while no one really

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wanted much attention for in the town. I think Dublin Dr.

255
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Pepper actually did some promotional things and merchandise around that time,

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which is sort of a rare coveted set of items

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these days. But I would say that what's cool to

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see is that the people, in some form of a

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visual them have actually welcomed the idea of embracing this

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as a community. Maybe not all together in a particular view,

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but just to say, hey, let's get together about something interesting,

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and so they invited me to come out and to

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give a presentation on Texas UFOs. But also they had

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other family friendly activities. So I think it's great when

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there are festival related events because it's something that garners

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the attention of a bit more of a family environment

267
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rather than the serious toned researchers and conferences, which is awesome.

268
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That's all great too, but they're not really as narrowed

269
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into the UFO research as maybe they are in the

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ability to kind of put together local community events. So

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I'm all for that. I think it's great to see

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and it's helpful to bring people again into better form

273
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of awareness when it comes to these subjects in the

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history of some of these local areas to a lot

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of these people who live in these locations around the

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state or are moving in and from wherever, and they

277
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don't know that this has some interesting history. And I

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just kind of going back into the original question of

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what do I think Other than Aurora, which we can

280
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dive into, I think that Stevenville as a modern case

281
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really deals with some of the more important aspects of

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a UFO investigation. Altogether. Again with the hard evidence. People

283
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always ask where's the hard data. There might be some

284
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photographs that people took, but you have citizens, law enforcement official,

285
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people in town all describing perceiving an aircraft of some

286
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sort or some kind of objects, you know, whether it

287
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was flying or people perceive it to be using some propulsion,

288
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whatever forms of interpretation there are of this object. It's

289
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not just people. This was tracked on radar. You have

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the F sixteen's. It was said that up to ten

291
00:15:32,759 --> 00:15:36,120
or more of sixteen's were out in pursuit or in

292
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some form of rendouvou and you know, accordance with this

293
00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:44,200
object flying from horizon to horizon, sometimes called the flying Walmart.

294
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It was an enormous object, mild wide craft or something perhaps,

295
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And so it makes us wonder, you know, people always wonder,

296
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are these hours or theirs or whoever? You know, And

297
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so it's very curious that with all the things that

298
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have come out since two thousand and eight. Remember this

299
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is after, you know, a lot of the buzzs in

300
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the last several years have been about the tic TAC.

301
00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:05,519
This is even after the tic TAC event in two

302
00:16:05,559 --> 00:16:07,679
thousand and four, and it's just at the time, that

303
00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:10,559
was never made aware by you know, the news or anything.

304
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,039
And so when two thousand and eight came around and

305
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,000
this became an incident, Ken Cherry, who at the time

306
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was with Moufon, came forward with a press release and

307
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he went on Larry King and he actually was asked

308
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to resign from Moufon because it caused quite a stir

309
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,159
the information of the case was being released without chain

310
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,320
of command. There's a lot of controversy about that, but

311
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I would just say that the important thing is that

312
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,799
you had a lot of eyes on this, a lot

313
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of people from within the town, a lot of people

314
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:40,960
coming outside, and it was a pretty extensively investigated situation

315
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,480
that Ken did eventually have a book come out, and

316
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,360
I did bring some literatures for anyone who's literature buff,

317
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,240
I'm a huge fan of books and things. So he

318
00:16:50,279 --> 00:16:53,919
came out this one as a fictional, fictionalized version so

319
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,440
that he could include things that he wouldn't normally be

320
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,240
able to say otherwise. So I thought that was pretty

321
00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,879
clever of Ken. I worked with him for a number

322
00:16:59,879 --> 00:17:02,799
of years and so he is probably the go to

323
00:17:02,919 --> 00:17:04,920
person when it comes to the stephen Ville UFO case

324
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,319
and I would just say, you know, from the full

325
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,599
spectrum of historical events being this is probably one of

326
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,839
the most modern ones, not just in Texas but overall

327
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:17,519
in the world, probably as far as recent cases are concerned,

328
00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:20,960
that has a lot of this substance to it, and

329
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,799
I think the radar tracking is really important. So, you know,

330
00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:26,759
in two thousand and eight, that was the big headlines

331
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:29,079
and that's what actually got me interested in looking around

332
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,720
here in my local area to find if there were

333
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,559
any groups so or anyone that really knew about that situation.

334
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,640
And then the next year I started to connect with

335
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,519
different people, and a little bit after that I found EPIC,

336
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,480
which was the group that Kin cherryformed after being involved

337
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,200
with MUFON and it was the Extraordinary Phenomena Investigations Council

338
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,319
with Jim Marsh and that's how I met him as well.

339
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,160
So I got involved with that group with Ken and

340
00:17:54,279 --> 00:17:56,480
Jim and a lot of other great people who are

341
00:17:56,519 --> 00:17:59,880
still friends, and it looked at things more than just UFO,

342
00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:02,559
which I thought was very interesting because I am fascinated

343
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,680
as you and many of the watchers and listeners are.

344
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,839
You know, the unexplained is just so fascinating that there's

345
00:18:08,839 --> 00:18:10,400
a lot of different aspects to what you can go

346
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,319
down and go down the rabbit hole of any of

347
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,000
these different things. And I've taken the time to look

348
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,200
into a lot. I really find uphology historically, and you know,

349
00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:23,000
the current things going on interesting from just the phenomenon

350
00:18:23,759 --> 00:18:26,680
all the different types of UFO phenomena that there are,

351
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,319
as well as the cultural aspects. Is settying that as well.

352
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:36,039
Speaker 1: Right, Right, So while we're on Stephenville there the Bush

353
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,920
Ranch was involved in this, right, I mean, am I

354
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,000
am I getting them mixed up? Or is this one

355
00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:44,519
where the Bush Ranch? Uh, there was a flyover close

356
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to right?

357
00:18:45,319 --> 00:18:49,039
Speaker 3: That's actually it and it makes people consider that, you know,

358
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with the president President Bush at the time, you know,

359
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you have this area that's not too far away and

360
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,160
if there's something flying over, you know. I think the

361
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,720
most relatable thing we've seen recently are these ideas of

362
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,119
the China by balloons and things. Well, you know, this

363
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,240
is happening, and they're not alien space ships or whatever.

364
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,440
Other ideas of like you know, nominalists phenomena are if

365
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,279
they're just adversarial nations or any rogue nations or any

366
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,799
any nation as an announced or declared that they're in airspace.

367
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,799
That is a I mean, in the most technical sense

368
00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:27,240
of the tournament's a threat to national security. And you know,

369
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,759
whether it's actually a threat or not physically or however else,

370
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:34,359
you know, that's that's essentially what it becomes looked at

371
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,640
on the radar. Whenever you have something that's an enormous

372
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,839
possibly a craft lying over potentially near where the president lives,

373
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,480
that should sound quite a few alarms. And I think that,

374
00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:48,720
you know, with the recent ideas of like the spy

375
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:53,000
balloons not being nearly as I mean, the media sensation

376
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:54,680
kind of took off a little bit, but then no

377
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,480
one's heart anything. No one's had any follow up with

378
00:19:56,519 --> 00:20:00,480
the objects that were over like Alaska or Canada. There's

379
00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:02,440
I mean maybe there has been, but I mean new

380
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,599
stories have their fifteen minutes of fame and they go

381
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,119
on to the next biggest thing. And there's a lot

382
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,519
that could be said about that, but I'll just mention that, yes,

383
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:12,759
you're you're correct. At the Bush Crawford Ranch, that whole

384
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,799
farm area in Texas is an enormous stretch of land.

385
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,720
So to be able to go from as they describe

386
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,920
horizon to horizon effortlessly and sort of blot out the sky.

387
00:20:23,519 --> 00:20:26,480
That's pretty startling considering, you know, if we do have

388
00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:28,759
and obviously people do suspect if you keep up with

389
00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:32,119
any of this, you know these ideas, is that people

390
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,599
suspect that we do in secret or in parallel to

391
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,599
like the publicly or even military technologies, that we have

392
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,039
pretty advanced things that could you know, do some incredible things.

393
00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:45,160
And it makes us wonder. Not too far away, especially

394
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,319
right near the where the Naval Joint Air Base send

395
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,400
out those depsixteens, we have Lockheed Martin and skunk Works

396
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,680
right here in the Fort Worth area. And you know,

397
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,160
I'm not going to make any grandiose claims, but it's

398
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,759
no secret that this private corporation, you know, Lockheed, is

399
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,440
basically buying or selling to the highest bidder and there

400
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,880
in contracts with probably defense defense contractors. And it makes

401
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,400
us wonder, you know, are there really interesting things going

402
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,680
on that they're making or working on or have been

403
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,200
that haven't seen the light of day and years or decades.

404
00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:23,599
So you know, some of these things we know have happened.

405
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,119
The SR seventy one, the stealth bomber, stealth fighter all

406
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,319
these ideas are something that we're once secretive and now

407
00:21:31,319 --> 00:21:33,640
we're seeing it like air shows and things like that,

408
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,920
and so we haven't had a lot of those things

409
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,240
come out lately in a way that unless you really

410
00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:40,960
like an aviation buff and you keep up with that

411
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:42,680
and go to the air shows. I mean, I saw

412
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,720
the Blue Angels coming back into town. So that's that's

413
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,400
just one of the staples we see. But you know,

414
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,279
we're not seeing any black Triangles and making the debut

415
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,799
at like you know, local air shows yet anyway, So

416
00:21:53,839 --> 00:21:55,880
it would be cool if maybe some of these things

417
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,680
are actually going to be released, like, yeah, we've had

418
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,920
this for a while. Although that's a huge can of worms,

419
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,640
but I would say that if if something's flying over

420
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,960
that's not ours in a sense of like you know,

421
00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:09,160
the US and someone else, then yeah, that should be

422
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,599
you know, utmost attention on any security that can actually

423
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,039
track that. And so a lot of people did I

424
00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:19,400
think that you have. I think Peter Davenport did some

425
00:22:20,319 --> 00:22:24,400
reporting and found that the track that was on radar,

426
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,079
and so that's considered hard evidence in a lot of ways,

427
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:29,319
and I think that it's just one of those things

428
00:22:29,319 --> 00:22:31,200
where if this was going on. You have someone else

429
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,279
who's looking out to fly over the president, it's a

430
00:22:34,319 --> 00:22:36,440
pretty big deal. And if it's not, if it's someone

431
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,920
here that you know is working on this thing's in secret,

432
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,480
that's that's incredible. It would be weird to think that

433
00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:44,680
there aren't actually I think, you know, this might not

434
00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:46,240
be a popular opinion, but I would say it would

435
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,440
actually be weird to think that there aren't super secret

436
00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:51,039
programs out there that can do incredible things that are

437
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:53,920
often misidentified as UFOs. It would be like a huge

438
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,240
waste of money and opportunity. If that hasn't been happening

439
00:22:57,279 --> 00:23:00,680
for years, it's odd that to think it's not. But anyway, Yeah,

440
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,039
so I think that that's another interesting element to that

441
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:07,400
that case is that it was near Crawford Ranch, Bush

442
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:08,240
and family lived.

443
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you mentioned this is I don't want to

444
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,039
go way off track or whatever, but this was me

445
00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:17,920
filming this. I was actually underneath the spy balloon when

446
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,359
it was shot. I mean, it's just it was just

447
00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:23,599
very ironic that it happened to be there. But the

448
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,519
thing I wanted to say that, and we'll get right

449
00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:29,799
back to your topic, but I still think it was

450
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,559
very weird that they had those two shootdowns right away

451
00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:36,680
right after that, and then you don't hear about anything else.

452
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,559
I mean, that's that's bizarre and really not, like you said,

453
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,279
not much talk about it really, so.

454
00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, strange. I would say that, you know, despite the

455
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,960
intention of whatever actually did cause that to happen, events

456
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,799
like that can be and there's a lot that could

457
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:55,680
be said about this with tons of different things and

458
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,480
go down this whole rabbit hole. But I would say

459
00:23:57,519 --> 00:24:01,000
that sometimes events can be taken advantage and exploited for

460
00:24:01,039 --> 00:24:06,000
the purpose of political, military, commercial, or whatever game and

461
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,920
be spun into something different. So maybe this is a

462
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,039
product of that. I don't know, but it's yeah. I mean,

463
00:24:11,079 --> 00:24:12,759
it's interesting to see that that was kind of back

464
00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,559
to back and then there's nothing. But I would just

465
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,559
use those as a sort of analogy to relate that

466
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,200
people forget about that. I mean, those were technically UFO sightings,

467
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,519
and we I think we're able to in some way

468
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,000
deduct that, Okay, these seem to be like spy balloons

469
00:24:28,039 --> 00:24:31,039
and maybe this is where they originated and whatever's going on.

470
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,440
So a lot of people like that we're seeing just

471
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,759
like what you showed and they can't readily identify that,

472
00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:39,680
so people often forget that UFO A often gets conflated

473
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,440
with alien space ship. But it's a subjective terms. It's

474
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,200
an individually subjective term that each person can relate to differently,

475
00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:48,960
because two or more people can see the same thing

476
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,400
and not know what they're looking at. One person might,

477
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,599
but it's just one of those things that we often think,

478
00:24:53,599 --> 00:24:57,200
a UFO must mean it's et, you know, and that's

479
00:24:57,319 --> 00:25:00,960
really what it is. But really it's tough because when

480
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,000
it I think, when we continue to see things in

481
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:07,079
modern times, it's easier to now relate it to drones,

482
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:12,400
spy technologies, satellites, you know, whereas like back when these

483
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,359
things weren't either commercially available or as big of a

484
00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:19,200
you know, an issue, it's easier to say, okay, well

485
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,519
it must be otherworldly or something. You know, so you

486
00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:22,160
see a lot of.

487
00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 2: That right right.

488
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: Here's how every once in a while, I'll pop maybe

489
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,920
a question here. Yeah, this isn't actually a question, but

490
00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:32,640
Christopher is saying, haven't seen separately to fifty to two

491
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,359
hundred foot circular hard just now lights over Houston in

492
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,839
nineteen ninety one. In twenty nineteen he's basically wondering if

493
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,400
you heard of other sightings as such, like a disc

494
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,440
of no lights.

495
00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think that one of the first things

496
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,920
I would say to do. Obviously, there are various reporting

497
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,759
agencies you're welcome to. You know, we can continue to

498
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,400
continue the discussion on Texas ufhone network because that's a

499
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,160
great way for people to find out, oh I saw

500
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,640
this too, or now that I wants to sharing. You know,

501
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,920
we can figure this out. And I think that even

502
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,920
with the other databases available, it's helpful to know that

503
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,960
there are resources. When it comes to those dates. Nothing

504
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,240
really stands out as far as what you describes a

505
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,680
large disc like that. There very well could be some reports.

506
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,720
But the other thing is a lot of people don't

507
00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:23,759
report sidings. They just either you know, keep it to

508
00:26:23,839 --> 00:26:26,119
themselves or maybe share it with a few people. So

509
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:28,440
I think that to come forward like that is it

510
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:30,480
takes a lot of courage, and it's tough to share

511
00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:34,559
about something that either isn't really very popular or people

512
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:37,039
get ridiculed for. So yeah, i'd say that we can

513
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,599
check the databases. MOFON has a database, and there are

514
00:26:40,599 --> 00:26:45,000
other old historical organizations that do have files, So I

515
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,079
would say that it would be good to see, you know,

516
00:26:47,079 --> 00:26:50,079
if we can find any relation between those dates and

517
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,960
the locations of Houston. There's the Houston UFO network as well,

518
00:26:54,519 --> 00:26:56,200
and people do try to figure out like what they

519
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,680
can do in the community to help, you know, there

520
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:00,720
are any other witnesses.

521
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,279
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, interesting.

522
00:27:03,599 --> 00:27:07,839
Speaker 1: Now, when I was out in Texas and I asked

523
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:13,160
the audience this summer how many people think they saw

524
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,079
a UFO, there was quite a few hands that went up.

525
00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:18,400
I'm telling you, it looked like I would have to

526
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,799
guess at least seventy five or one hundred people put

527
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:24,240
their hands up that they thought they saw a UFO.

528
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,599
And when I asked the next question, which was how

529
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,880
many of you reported it, it was like three hands. So,

530
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,319
and I think that's probably across the board. I know,

531
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,880
when I had my sighting in two thousand and seven,

532
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:37,920
I did not report it.

533
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,599
Speaker 2: I didn't even know there was a place to report them,

534
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:41,119
you know.

535
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's when you're out there in

536
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,359
the public, you have no idea there's a mofon or

537
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,160
anything like that, and I call the police department and

538
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,680
there's from what I understand, they generally will tell you

539
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,160
you can report it at either you know, Peter Davenport's.

540
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,279
Speaker 2: Or a mofon, you know what I mean.

541
00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:02,079
Speaker 1: But anyway, you know, I would like to talk about

542
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,279
if it's okay with you, we can jump into the

543
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,160
Aurora one, because that one is really fascinating, and I

544
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,119
know there's a lot there's some controversy about the gravesite,

545
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,160
and and I know the town will not let there

546
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,200
be a you know, the body exzoomed or anything like that,

547
00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:21,319
or do they even know exactly where it is.

548
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,519
Speaker 3: There's a lot to that, and I just I want

549
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:28,039
to take an opportunity because Aurora is a pretty extensive,

550
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,839
historically documented legend. I would say in many ways, I

551
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,640
try to look at it, and I'm more broad since

552
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,480
than just the UFO case, although that is a really

553
00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:40,359
interesting part of how it's been interpreted interpreted throughout the years.

554
00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:42,720
But to really preface the Aurra story, I just want

555
00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:46,119
to shed light on a lesser known case that deals

556
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,160
with citing well before the even the Great Airship Mystery,

557
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,400
to kind of give some context to the idea that

558
00:28:52,519 --> 00:28:56,039
UFOs in the sense asart as what we call them,

559
00:28:56,079 --> 00:28:57,720
are not a new phenomenon. I think a lot of

560
00:28:57,759 --> 00:28:59,920
people and your your viewership is probably familiar with this,

561
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:03,480
but I want to just call to light the Denison

562
00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:08,039
saucer case, which there should be a visual of as well,

563
00:29:08,039 --> 00:29:10,519
and just want to mention that because what's important about

564
00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:14,440
understanding aurora is that it's not an isolated event, whether

565
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:20,599
it's historically proven or disproven. The idea that these airships

566
00:29:20,599 --> 00:29:24,079
as they call them, were sort of, you know, the

567
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,960
latest incarnation of UFOs, of just some aerial phenomenon, but

568
00:29:28,119 --> 00:29:33,119
predating even that by some nineteen years, is this idea

569
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,759
of In the Denison Daily News that was reported that

570
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:42,359
a farmer in North Texas, north of Dallas named John

571
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,240
Martin described seeing an object that was moving and it

572
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:48,440
was a light, and he said that it first looked

573
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,599
like it was the size of an orange in the sky,

574
00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:53,039
and then it came closer and it was looked like

575
00:29:53,079 --> 00:29:55,720
a saucer. And I think it's so interesting that he

576
00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:59,680
used that terminology of a saucer in eighteen seventy eight

577
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:04,039
north of Dallas, when, of course you have years later

578
00:30:04,119 --> 00:30:09,839
Kenneth Arnold describing seeing crescent shape objects that moved like saucers,

579
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,039
and that was kind of taken out of context and

580
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:16,480
the media. And now we have the term flying saucer,

581
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,160
which has been you know, an umbrella term for a

582
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,680
lot of this since the fifties, you know. So I

583
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,240
think that there's so much that happens that goes off

584
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,559
the radar in most people's for of you just because

585
00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:33,240
we forget the language of terminology, the nomenclature changes, and

586
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:36,640
so we forget how to research historical cases because we know,

587
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:40,480
you start losing the term UFO before the fifties, it's

588
00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:44,119
just not relevant or present in society. So and looking

589
00:30:44,119 --> 00:30:47,920
into these historical cases like Aurora, it starts being brought

590
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,640
back into the modern scope of things with the the

591
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,759
renaming UFO and attachment to the story. So what's cool

592
00:30:56,839 --> 00:30:58,119
is again that you know, we can kind of claim

593
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,440
stake to the use of that term saucer here in

594
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,440
Texas well before the whole you know, flying saucer craze

595
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,599
of the fifties and onward. And then you know, like

596
00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:09,680
you mentioned, you know, this is a you know, one

597
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,559
of those things that it's helpful to see that as

598
00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:14,480
it comes to the end of the eighteen hundreds, in

599
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,039
the nineteenth century, you have the what we call the

600
00:31:18,119 --> 00:31:20,599
Great Airship Mystery, and this is a series of events

601
00:31:20,599 --> 00:31:24,880
going from eighteen in ninety six into ninety seven, especially

602
00:31:25,079 --> 00:31:28,720
in the height of April eighteen ninety seven, there are

603
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:31,759
newspapers throughout California, the Midwest and in other states that

604
00:31:31,799 --> 00:31:37,680
are describing the airship, sometimes as a singular phenomenon or

605
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,440
as various crafts. And it's really important to also know

606
00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:45,839
that historically, even contemporary airships weren't even built in a

607
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,400
way that was what was being described until the late

608
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:54,440
eighteen into eighteen ninety seven into November, David Schwartz made

609
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,319
the first hard frame dirigible airship, and then of course

610
00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:01,880
eighteen ninety eight eight ninety nine a lot more was

611
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,480
actually being made, and then of course in nineteen oh

612
00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:08,559
three you've got the Flyer by the Wright Brothers. So

613
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:12,759
it's not something that actually was all instantaneous as far

614
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:15,799
as historically documented. Now, it's not to say that you

615
00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:18,759
didn't have people who were inventors. There actually is a

616
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:22,480
lot of interesting speculation about various elite scientists, inventors, and

617
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:27,319
groups of wealthy people who were putting together interesting schematics

618
00:32:27,359 --> 00:32:31,160
to form flying contraptions. Whether there were more air balloon

619
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,880
like or blimp like or dirigible or airship. There's ideas

620
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,640
that basically incorporate some of these interesting artistics schematics by

621
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,880
a guy named Charles deil Shaw who had these interesting

622
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,480
drawings that were found in these books in a dumpster

623
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:51,480
in Houston, Texas. Interestingly enough, so this is all something

624
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:54,519
that people wonder are these just forms of art being

625
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:57,240
like an artistic creation or is it like real schematics

626
00:32:57,279 --> 00:33:00,559
by this group the Sonora Aero Club that were creating

627
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,759
airships in the late eighteen hundreds that no one even

628
00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:06,400
knew about until like way later on. So I do

629
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,319
think that there probably were inventors working on it, like

630
00:33:09,359 --> 00:33:11,440
the Wright brothers, but they were the ones who got

631
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,240
sort of the claim to fame once their flyer really

632
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,119
took off and literally, you know, and made the headline.

633
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,680
So I think that sometimes we just remember what's documented.

634
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,359
We have a tendency to forget as a society. Some

635
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,240
of the things that get lost that either aren't kept

636
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,039
in the public domain or gets thrown out. So it's

637
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:31,640
hard to say about some of the ephemera that could

638
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,599
describe these things that they are authentic and if it's really,

639
00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:39,160
you know, pointing to the idea that maybe the airships

640
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,839
were inventors and not just you know, as the Aurora

641
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,839
story suggests, not an inhabitant of this world. So I

642
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,279
think that in the context of the Great Airship Mystery,

643
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:52,200
a lot of people get the impression that the Aurora

644
00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:55,400
story was the first ever documented UFO, and not only that,

645
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,200
the first ever documented crash. And I think that, you know,

646
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,359
most of those things could be debate and say, well, technically, no,

647
00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:05,640
you have a crash described in Nebraska in eighteen eighty four.

648
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,000
But also it is of UFOs in general. We just

649
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,119
don't call them UFOs. They were airships and then they

650
00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:15,159
were meteorological wonders and all kinds of other things that

651
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,639
people call them, dating wellback for the eighteen hundreds too.

652
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,719
But when it does come to Aurora, I think it's

653
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,880
important how it stands out as probably now these days

654
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,679
the most notable of the airship stories, because not only

655
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:29,760
do you deal with someone who had seen something, and

656
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,960
that picture you showed of the Dallas Morning News actually

657
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,719
shows on the fifth page over a dozen other airship stories.

658
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,320
Aurora was just there in the middle of the fifth page,

659
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,559
and you have one from Merkel, Texas that describes it

660
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,639
an anchor being let down and then cut off, and

661
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:50,039
the town kept it there and you know, in the

662
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:53,280
public square for a while, and other people would hear

663
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,239
singing from the airship, and the crew would come down

664
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,679
and land and ask for supplies. Typically he's dealt with

665
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:04,320
human aperiod occupants, the captain perhaps, but nothing too otherworldly

666
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,920
for the most part. So when Aurora decided to, you know,

667
00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:11,559
either come up with the story or something did happen

668
00:35:11,679 --> 00:35:15,639
or whatever actually did happen. The way that it made

669
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,320
the news was because of a writer there, a cotton

670
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,199
trader named S. E. Hayden, which often gets misspelled in

671
00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:26,079
almost every book and article that came out about this.

672
00:35:28,039 --> 00:35:31,079
He wrote an article called a Windmill Demolishes It, and

673
00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:34,480
essentially the idea is that an airship came down from

674
00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:38,199
the south, crashed into the tower of Judge Proctor's windmill

675
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,880
on a farm, and because of the explosion, it scattered

676
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,960
debrief for acres, and the metal from the explosion, which

677
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,320
seemed to be the contents of the ship, was silvery

678
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:56,159
and aluminum soft to the touch, and the farmers there,

679
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,719
the Proctors, along with apparently other townsfolk came to the

680
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,800
wreckage to gather specimens of what it says was strange metal,

681
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,159
and that the occupant, which was said to have been

682
00:36:08,199 --> 00:36:11,320
the only one on board of the airship, was found.

683
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,039
At least the remains were badly disfigured, but enough of

684
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:18,480
the original was recovered to determine, according to what was

685
00:36:18,519 --> 00:36:22,119
claimed to be the authority on astronomy later found historically,

686
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,719
a blacksmith named TJ. Wems said that it was of

687
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,840
his opinion that he was an inhabitant of the planet Mars,

688
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,440
and that based upon the remains that he was quote

689
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,719
not an inhabitant of this world. And that's a very

690
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,400
sensational claim. At the time, people you know, don't realize

691
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,519
that science fiction and stories about otherworldly life was around,

692
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,800
just not obviously in the same mediums. There were no

693
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,840
movies or anything, but even things like War of the

694
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,960
World's hd Wells that came out the next year, the

695
00:36:53,039 --> 00:36:58,719
idea of Martians invading. So it's not impossible that people there,

696
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,639
if this idea that you know, other worldly beings was

697
00:37:03,679 --> 00:37:06,360
somehow in their literature and they were able to get

698
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,159
a hold of it, they could learn that, okay, this

699
00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:10,000
is an idea of being discussed, and it's kind of

700
00:37:10,119 --> 00:37:14,679
culturally relevant. So the story itself didn't really get any

701
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,400
attention for a long time, but it does also include

702
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,400
that the otherworldly pilot was given a funeral the next

703
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,840
day or says tomorrow. Now, a lot of people there's

704
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,000
a lot of misconception. I learned about this case from

705
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:33,639
our friend, the late and great Jim Mars, who lived nearby,

706
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,760
who took me out to the cemetery. He would tell

707
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,639
me about his time there that in the seventies there

708
00:37:39,639 --> 00:37:43,119
would be an uproar in this story resurfacing into the

709
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:47,199
public and getting media attention in the local newspapers and

710
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,880
investigative groups like Muffon, which at the time was headed

711
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,159
by Bill Case who was also the aviation writer for

712
00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:58,199
the Dallas Morning Dallas Times. Harold, you also have people

713
00:37:58,199 --> 00:38:01,800
like Hayden Hughes from the International UFO Bureau up in

714
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,360
Oklahoma who came down and the idea essentially at the

715
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,159
time was that these people thought enough of this case

716
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,559
of a UFO case as they interpreted it, to be

717
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:14,920
able to look into potentially finding legal means to exhume

718
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,400
the supposed grave in which the alleged alien has been buried,

719
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,280
and that you can see there's a picture provided to

720
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,880
me by Jim Mars of what has been called the

721
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,039
original headstone. Now, whether that actually is a stone that

722
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:31,199
was there the whole time, or was put in place,

723
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:34,119
or was marking a real alien grave, or it's just

724
00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:40,159
someone's mischief that was there at least in the early seventies.

725
00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:43,920
Whether it goes back is contested, but it's hard to see.

726
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,119
Jim thought enough about this little stone that it was

727
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:50,559
in his mind broken off and broken in half by

728
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:53,719
treasure hunters and people coming out, and that this strange

729
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,280
shape you can see on that picture shows that there

730
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,119
was what he thought was half of the ship. If

731
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:02,159
you put the other side together, it was a full,

732
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,639
you know, oblong sort of cigar or disc shaped object

733
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:10,320
with portpoles. And that seems very imaginative, and you know,

734
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,920
he's Jim is always creative, and I love that. But

735
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,719
you know, this stone actually went missing in June of

736
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,159
nineteen seventy three. Soon after there was a cemetary watch

737
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,480
put up because of these groups wanting to exhume the body.

738
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:27,000
That's the number one thing people ask about the Aurora cases.

739
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,599
Why don't they just put this to rest and go

740
00:39:28,679 --> 00:39:31,239
dig it up once and for all, And of course

741
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,199
how clever it is to think of that idea, But

742
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,039
fifty years ago people were really serious about trying to

743
00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:40,320
do that and to no avail. So it's still an

744
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,960
ongoing thing that you know, there's no one allowed to

745
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,199
go and dig it up. But they are also worried

746
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,440
because there was a spotted fever at the time and

747
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,800
they didn't want to bring that back potentially, So the

748
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,519
idea of this grave site not being known is really

749
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:56,320
not the case. People say no one knows where it

750
00:39:56,599 --> 00:40:00,320
really is buried. Well, as far as that location, that

751
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,639
is definitely known, whether there's something there or not that

752
00:40:03,679 --> 00:40:06,159
can be looked into as well. But the idea that

753
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,000
the missing headstone is gone and no one knows where

754
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,280
that spot really was, that's not true. It's very easily accessible.

755
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,199
It can very well be determined even by some of

756
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,000
the things that are out there, and the latest sort

757
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,960
of investigations that have been done really found kind of

758
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,519
the exact area where that's alleged to house or host

759
00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:32,519
some small child sized grape. So throughout the years it

760
00:40:32,639 --> 00:40:35,199
was not really as far as the Aurora story I

761
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,719
referred to as a legend. It really didn't get any

762
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,239
attention from the time it came out all the way

763
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,320
to the late sixties, and then local newspaper writers started

764
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,480
getting into it. Someone from England came out for the

765
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:52,719
Flying Saucer Review newsletter and investigated it. William driscoll on

766
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,079
behalf of doctor j Allen Heinech, came out to investigate it.

767
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,599
A scientist from a local technical college, and sixties stix

768
00:40:59,639 --> 00:41:02,639
came out to investigate it. It was interesting. It was

769
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,239
interested interesting to a number of people who were, you know,

770
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:10,119
credentialed enough to go and with what they had at

771
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:12,679
the time to actually do a field investigation to try

772
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,360
to determine, like if there was really anything to it.

773
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,239
All of them basically said there's not anything that they

774
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,199
could find. They couldn't find a windmill, the metal that

775
00:41:19,199 --> 00:41:21,960
they found was too contemporary. And then later on in

776
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,719
the seventies. So I just want to mention that it's

777
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,039
interesting to see, like Jay Allen Heinich of you know,

778
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,360
euthological lore, and you know, all these things that people

779
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,360
refer to being in Blue Book and Air Force's investigation

780
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,559
in UFOs and going on to form QFOS. It's interesting

781
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:43,480
to see even someone like Heinick was interested in the

782
00:41:43,559 --> 00:41:47,159
Aurora story, and you know, Jacques Lala, his contemporary, came

783
00:41:47,199 --> 00:41:50,440
out and investigated it as well. A lot of people

784
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,880
have been there to look into seeing that there's any

785
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:56,239
tangible evidence. So in the seventies, because of all that

786
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,239
people came, they did find metal. A physicist at the

787
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,039
local North Texas State University at the time now U

788
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:07,119
and T University of North Texas school I went to

789
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:09,679
for a little while. There was a physicist and other

790
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,159
people there that were interested in studying metal that was found.

791
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,039
And the only thing that was found that seemed a

792
00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:19,840
little bit odd about this metal that wasn't bordinary was

793
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,559
that it had high concentrations of aluminum and zinc and

794
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:26,840
some iron, but had no magnetic properties, which was extremely unusual,

795
00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:30,320
and that it would have been hard to have access

796
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,559
to this type of aluminum before the nineteen thirties or nineteen.

797
00:42:34,039 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: Very expensive, very expensive too. I mean any production of

798
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:43,559
aluminum early on was extremely expensive, like almost like gold.

799
00:42:43,639 --> 00:42:45,480
That's what I've heard now. I don't know if that's

800
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,840
you know, this is going way back before the internet.

801
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 2: I remember reading something about that, but.

802
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: Just real quickly they've had, you know, the way this

803
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,559
thing is supposedly caught on fire and everything. I know,

804
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,679
you know, all the way back in the Civil War,

805
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:06,719
the Union had balloons and they have these hydrogen machines

806
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,000
that they used to fill up with hydrogen. Of course,

807
00:43:09,039 --> 00:43:13,159
hydrogen is extremely flammable and these things, you know, would

808
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:16,760
blow up, and you know, I mean, there was that problem,

809
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:21,119
and they did mention it was a fiery, very fiery crash,

810
00:43:21,159 --> 00:43:24,000
and it makes you really wonder what made it a

811
00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:26,519
fiery crash and could it have been hydrogen.

812
00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a great point. You know, a

813
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,639
lot of people like the obviously the sensational explanation of

814
00:43:33,679 --> 00:43:35,800
it having being an alien and a lot of the

815
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,559
newspapers used that as a headline in the seventies. It

816
00:43:38,599 --> 00:43:41,599
was like National News next. And this is part of

817
00:43:41,679 --> 00:43:44,239
the research project I've been working on is essentially to

818
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,519
document all ways in which the Aurora legend has been

819
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:50,960
portrayed in all multimedia formats over the last century. And

820
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,880
I've found it's extremely overwhelming because it's it's next to

821
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,119
Roswell and some of those other big names as one

822
00:43:56,119 --> 00:44:00,440
of the most publicized events of an other worldly encounter seventies,

823
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:04,320
especially seventy three. It's all over all over the States

824
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,559
and some newspaper published by the Associative Press, the United

825
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:11,480
Press International, and here as you can see, Jim Mars

826
00:44:11,559 --> 00:44:13,800
even is writing about it. For as he was a

827
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,239
writer for the local newspaper, the Fort Worth Star Telegram,

828
00:44:17,119 --> 00:44:19,039
before he was ever a really well known author of

829
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,400
some of his best selling books. And so it's really

830
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,639
cool to see he was interested in helping to you know,

831
00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:27,000
look into this way back in the seventies before people

832
00:44:27,079 --> 00:44:30,719
knew him as this you know, established journalist, which is great,

833
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,440
and because of him, he's how I'm familiar with any

834
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:34,840
of this stuff. So a lot of what I'm doing

835
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,960
is in honor of our great buddy Jim Mars, and

836
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,679
you know things to him. It's it's important that you

837
00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:44,760
can see that people are doing like what you're helping

838
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,800
to establish with you know, this journalistic work. It's like

839
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,440
a work of anthropology in some way, we're able to

840
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,320
connect with all these amazing people who have stories, contribution

841
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,079
and points of data to contribute to the community and

842
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:00,280
the greater society at whole. Jim was very much in

843
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,800
tune with a lot of that. He challenged the status

844
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,760
quo of tackling difficult journalism topics even back in the seventies,

845
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,320
and it was something that was controversial. So, you know,

846
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:10,760
I just want to give a shout out to my

847
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,320
buddy from Mars, of course, and I would just say

848
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,079
that's really important to keep in mind that, you know,

849
00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:16,679
even though I really looked up to him, I don't

850
00:45:16,679 --> 00:45:18,800
put him on a pedestal. I think he even looking

851
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,800
at some of the stuff he got wrong often, and

852
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,599
I thought that was okay because he was willing to

853
00:45:23,679 --> 00:45:25,360
kind of say, oh, right, you know, I'm just doing

854
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,159
what I can. If I can't document it, and if

855
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:29,559
I can learn from something, that's great. And so I've

856
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:32,039
been able to find some things that helped to be

857
00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:37,079
reassuring of that that quality of investigating, even in this

858
00:45:37,159 --> 00:45:39,840
journey of Aurora, because there's so much that gets mistaken,

859
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,880
that gets taken out of context, that's erroneous and often

860
00:45:45,199 --> 00:45:49,199
misattributed to wrong dates, wrong you know people. So I

861
00:45:49,199 --> 00:45:50,480
would just say that, you know, when it comes to

862
00:45:50,559 --> 00:45:56,480
Aurora in the seventies, it became an extremely sensational news item.

863
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,519
Mufon did actually find it compelling enough that the charred

864
00:46:00,559 --> 00:46:06,000
remains of the multen state of metal and the charred

865
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,159
and burnt stones and limestone and materials that we're finding.

866
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,400
It was convincing enough to John Schusler of Moufon and

867
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,960
Walt Andris and people like Bill Case and eventually others

868
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,320
that something did actually happen that creates an extreme amount

869
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,760
of heat, probably which can be inferred as an explosion.

870
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,280
Just as you were pointing out, Martin, and I think

871
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,000
it's important to consider what are the alternatives. Were there

872
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,039
actually ships that use some kind of compressed air or

873
00:46:33,079 --> 00:46:35,880
some gas that would have been explosive, because it sounds

874
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,199
like if this is all really what happened as far

875
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,360
as the explosion, then maybe there was something out there

876
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,440
that exploded. Maybe some of the debris wasn't otherworldly, but

877
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:46,800
was of some interesting construction or a contraption that the

878
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:53,159
inventor whoever was piloting this potential craft whose met their demise.

879
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,760
If you look at some unfortunately, you know, when people

880
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,360
are in unfortunate situations and they get really mingled, bodies

881
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,559
are hard to identify, and so maybe they found the

882
00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:06,039
remains that didn't seem to be you know all that

883
00:47:06,639 --> 00:47:08,880
human appearing, but who knows. So I think that that's

884
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,079
an interesting component. It puts it in that other worldly

885
00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:15,840
category other than just sort of a terrestrial, cryptic kind

886
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,760
of creation. So I think that's really important to keep

887
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,840
that in mind. That, yeah, maybe, and even talking to

888
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,719
some of the old timers there in Aurora, it's really

889
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,039
interesting to see that their perspective is that some of

890
00:47:26,039 --> 00:47:27,599
them think that, oh, it's not that it was a

891
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:29,960
hoax and it didn't happen, but it just couldn't. There's

892
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,840
no way that it could have been an alien spaceship

893
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,039
from what other place and time and space because they

894
00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:38,360
were told it was a two engine powered motor with

895
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,400
gasoline and that it just broke down or something. So

896
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,039
I've heard some really outlandish ideas that weren't necessarily debunking it,

897
00:47:45,079 --> 00:47:47,760
but we're taking it out of the category of extraterrestrial.

898
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,000
So those are great points, and I think it's important

899
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:51,760
to keep it in mind that there are some alternative

900
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:53,960
considerations to the Aurora story.

901
00:47:54,679 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, here's the thing about that. My

902
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:02,199
thoughts about that is it seems to me that if

903
00:48:02,199 --> 00:48:06,920
it was an inventor, say, you would think that he

904
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,920
would have connections enough to know that he was missing,

905
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,880
and that you know that there was a fiery crash,

906
00:48:14,159 --> 00:48:17,079
and you know someone would be coming to claim, you know,

907
00:48:17,119 --> 00:48:19,559
the body, you would think, because it couldn't go to

908
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,880
that very far. A craft I wouldn't imagine could go

909
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,840
more than what I'm just guessing, but you know, ten

910
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,320
miles would be a big stretch for something like that

911
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,320
to go. So, I mean, if that's what indeed happened,

912
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,239
I'm just surprised no one ever came forward and to

913
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,159
claim the body or claim that they knew the person.

914
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 3: You know.

915
00:48:38,519 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's another mystery.

916
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 3: It's a challenge to find any of the potential remains

917
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,760
of any of the alleged airship stories, not just aroar

918
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,440
of it, like the the hundreds of airship reports nationwide.

919
00:48:51,519 --> 00:48:53,840
You know, if any number of them, let's say all

920
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,239
of them were hoaxes, but one percent or half of

921
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,239
one percent, then that means that there could still potentially

922
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,800
be like someone's you know, antique airship out in a

923
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,440
shed or a barn or you know, crash somewhere. So

924
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,760
I'm hopeful in a weird way, I guess, but I'm

925
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,880
hopeful that maybe there actually are remains yet to be found,

926
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,400
and that's like an archaeological gold mine. Obviously that would

927
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,679
totally rewrite modern aviation history, even in the simplest terms

928
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:20,199
to think that, okay, well maybe the right brothers weren't

929
00:49:20,199 --> 00:49:21,760
there there first. But you know, there's a lot of

930
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,159
ideas about how discovery is not instantaneous and the by

931
00:49:26,199 --> 00:49:28,199
way of declaration, and that we have to make sure

932
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,760
that there's the correct process in which things can get reviewed,

933
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,800
established in journals, and then you know, be publicized through media.

934
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,679
But things are changing now, you know, now that we

935
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,679
have instantaneous ability to live stream, a lot of these

936
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,639
types of things make news a lot quicker. And so

937
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,159
it is curious to think, okay, if this had a

938
00:49:47,199 --> 00:49:49,840
person perish, or all these other stories talked about a

939
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,559
crew that someone like you said would have enough connections

940
00:49:52,559 --> 00:49:54,480
to note that would have been this person or that.

941
00:49:54,559 --> 00:49:59,039
So there are ideas of the telegraph community on the

942
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,320
railways having concocted the story, and I think that it's

943
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,679
really interesting to see that maybe that could account for

944
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,000
some of it, but I don't know if it was

945
00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:09,599
all of it, you know, So some ideas have been

946
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:12,360
discussed as far as where these airship stories originate. But

947
00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:16,159
it's difficult because the only other person, one of the

948
00:50:16,199 --> 00:50:21,480
other big names as far as paranormal unexplained mysteries, you know,

949
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,920
anomalist things are more, particularly fourteen phenomenon, was Charles Ford.

950
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,599
He wrote new Lands in nineteen twenty in twenty two,

951
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,320
and he was one of the first people ever to

952
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,800
investigate the reports of the airships from twenty years earlier.

953
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,119
And he wasn't considered a UFO investigator, but it's exactly

954
00:50:40,119 --> 00:50:41,920
what he was doing at a time when no one

955
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,920
else was really looking into those at the time, even

956
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,320
then historical reports. So he didn't say anything about Aurora directly,

957
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,039
but he does say that there could be data to

958
00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:51,280
suggest that there are what he referred to as extra

959
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,119
mundane voyagers during the month of April and eighteen ninety seven.

960
00:50:55,199 --> 00:50:58,320
So I think it's pretty cool. But throughout that, you know,

961
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,760
you know, the thirties, there's not a lot going on.

962
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,920
Apparently there are reports of people seeing things out in

963
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,559
the Gulf of Mexico, but I wouldn't say that just

964
00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:09,280
as a sort of honorable mention the cool idea. Of course,

965
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,199
a lot of people. Roswell's a household name. Most people

966
00:51:12,199 --> 00:51:14,079
who keep up with this know about it. But even

967
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:16,760
if you don't, you kind of relate Roswell to the

968
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,440
idea of UFOs or other worldly visitors or something to

969
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,400
that effect. And I would just make a mention that

970
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,320
those famous pictures or maybe infamous pictures of what looks

971
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,519
like people holding up ten boil or aluminum oil, those

972
00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:31,760
pictures of Jesse Marcel and General Roger Amy were taken

973
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,840
in Fort Worth for a public media shoot to really

974
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,719
kind of dissuade the public from there being any real

975
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,039
concern about flying saucers and that those were actually just

976
00:51:43,519 --> 00:51:46,920
parts of, you know, a weather balloon, and whether that

977
00:51:47,039 --> 00:51:48,960
was really the case or not that guy in the

978
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:53,199
picture there, and these are housed at the Roswell's International

979
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,320
UFO Museum and Research Center. But it's pretty cool to

980
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,320
see that they have them. I've seen them here at

981
00:51:59,519 --> 00:52:02,719
the local campus at University of Texas and Arlington has

982
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,719
these copies or the originals, the negatives, and Jesse Marcel

983
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,360
there came out later saying whoever he was holding he

984
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,679
did not think was the original material he originally saw,

985
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,440
and that the original material was not made on this earth,

986
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,280
and that's just his claim. A lot of people contest

987
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,159
to that, but I would say that, you know, it's

988
00:52:19,199 --> 00:52:22,480
interesting that all of that, the story of Roswell, how

989
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:25,199
big that is. Those pictures that helped to really give

990
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:29,199
it some context and some kind of reference point. We're

991
00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:31,480
taken here in Fort Worth, Texas and like my hometown area,

992
00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:33,199
so it's kind of any thing that happened in forty

993
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,360
seven interesting.

994
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,519
Speaker 1: I wanted to show you something here and we were

995
00:52:38,519 --> 00:52:42,360
talking about airships earlier, and check this out.

996
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 2: This was the Simeon.

997
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: Perkins diary of October twelfth, seventeen ninety six, basically talking

998
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:54,119
about witnessing a ship up in the air with figures

999
00:52:54,159 --> 00:52:58,159
on it. And I'm not sure if this talks about

1000
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,840
lights coming down or not, but I mean so, I mean,

1001
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,519
you know, we think of the airships as what you

1002
00:53:03,519 --> 00:53:05,719
you know, were saying in the late eighteen hundreds, but

1003
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,840
there were other accounts you know, that pop up now

1004
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,280
and then. I just thought that was interesting. Anyone can

1005
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,480
find that online. Simeon Perkins Diary.

1006
00:53:14,559 --> 00:53:16,760
Speaker 2: Very cool. Yeah, it's great.

1007
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 1: So we are we're only five minutes away from closing

1008
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,199
off of KGRA, so we didn't really have any time

1009
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:26,880
to you know, have any call ins, but I'd like

1010
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,559
to continue on if that's okay with you, and just

1011
00:53:30,599 --> 00:53:33,239
to let the people at KGr know, I have a

1012
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,960
large Scranton on next week, we'll be back with him.

1013
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,840
It's up in the air whether I'm going to be

1014
00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:41,159
going to Washington, d C.

1015
00:53:41,679 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 2: For the hearing.

1016
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,079
Speaker 1: If it does happen, sounds like it will be happening

1017
00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:46,519
on the thirteenth.

1018
00:53:46,599 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: I was at the last one.

1019
00:53:48,119 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm going to make this one just

1020
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:54,320
because of a situation is kind of conflicting, so I'm

1021
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:55,800
not going to may not be able to make that

1022
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,559
one in particular, but anyway, I just thought i'd say

1023
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,320
goodbye for now to all those people over KGr A Radio,

1024
00:54:02,679 --> 00:54:05,760
and we'll see you next week. I'd like to continue

1025
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,840
on if we can shift gears here. I will check

1026
00:54:09,079 --> 00:54:12,039
to see if there's, you know, any questions that came in, but.

1027
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 2: I'd like to.

1028
00:54:14,199 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: Continue on with another case. I think the Aurorer one

1029
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:23,119
is fascinating. The one question I have how close did

1030
00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:26,599
they ever come to actually exhuoming that body?

1031
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:30,079
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's a really great question, and I

1032
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:32,639
think it's important to resolve some of the mystery of

1033
00:54:32,679 --> 00:54:34,679
the case overall, and I'll just say that kind of

1034
00:54:34,679 --> 00:54:37,239
picking up really quick into the eighties, they made a

1035
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,079
movie is sort of writing the coattails of ET at

1036
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:43,800
the time about a friendly alien movie, and so that

1037
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,960
really didn't do much to help enliven the case. You know,

1038
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,519
in the nineties, it's a fun film. You can watch

1039
00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:50,800
it on YouTube for free. But you know, in the

1040
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,599
nineties they had one hundredth anniversary, so it made some news,

1041
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,760
but it didn't really rile up enough people to try

1042
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,840
to make any real attempt at action. But it wasn't

1043
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,880
until the two thousands that the History Channel got involved.

1044
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,400
John Greenwald you mentioned earlier, actually did his first documentary

1045
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,119
on Aurora. They couldn't get access to the well, but

1046
00:55:11,159 --> 00:55:13,199
they talked about the grave site. But a few years

1047
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,960
later they had a show called the UFO Hunters, and

1048
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,920
the UFO Hunters did go out there. They did unseal

1049
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,360
the well, and this was thanks to Ken Sherry, who

1050
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,400
I mentioned earlier, who helped to get all this worked out.

1051
00:55:25,199 --> 00:55:28,480
They sent pat Uskert down the well and they sent

1052
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:32,039
the other guys over to the grave with ground penetrating radar. Now,

1053
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,440
nothing was found from the well. They did test the water.

1054
00:55:35,519 --> 00:55:38,239
I don't think they found any strong breeding or indication

1055
00:55:38,519 --> 00:55:41,360
of anything anomalous. But what they could find over the

1056
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,960
grave that they could really pinpoint. Based upon that original

1057
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,599
stone and some other things that they used to sort

1058
00:55:47,599 --> 00:55:52,400
of triangulate the location, they basically determined that there is

1059
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,960
a small child sized grave at that location, but they

1060
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,599
were unable to determine the contents of the grave and

1061
00:55:57,639 --> 00:56:00,079
see what it actually was or what was really inside,

1062
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,320
and who knows, if it's a body, could be dust.

1063
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,639
I've been told by people at the historical community there

1064
00:56:05,079 --> 00:56:10,559
that they actually transferred bodies from an older cemetery, and

1065
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:13,639
I've heard that that claim is actually contested as well,

1066
00:56:13,679 --> 00:56:16,639
even by people from the historical community. So there's a

1067
00:56:16,679 --> 00:56:21,000
lot of question marks. But it sounds like the idea

1068
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,960
is that that's probably the closest that's happened. In the seventies,

1069
00:56:25,039 --> 00:56:28,639
it put it halts on any real I mean, people

1070
00:56:28,639 --> 00:56:30,840
were ready to come digging, you know, and then fifty

1071
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,519
years later there hasn't really been much that's happened. There

1072
00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:37,320
has been a large stone marker that was recently moved,

1073
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,639
but the main thing I'd say that helps to kind

1074
00:56:39,639 --> 00:56:42,440
of shed any light about that situation. Is the non

1075
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:46,760
invasive technique of ground penetrating radar or GPR that can

1076
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,119
be used in a lot of ways archaeologically speaking, that

1077
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:54,199
have been a huge innovation in techniques field investigations, and

1078
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,199
so I think that even now it's kind of dated,

1079
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,679
if someone could go there and acquire the APPROBA permissions

1080
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:04,599
to do that now with like modern technology, who knows,

1081
00:57:04,639 --> 00:57:06,880
you could probably find out quite a bit whether there's

1082
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,519
anything really there or not. It would still be a

1083
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,000
worthwhile pursuit, I think historically. So with that, you know,

1084
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,199
I would say that that's probably the closest that anyone's

1085
00:57:16,239 --> 00:57:19,599
really come. But the town we held an event there,

1086
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:25,039
they raised enough funding resources to relabel the town branding,

1087
00:57:25,079 --> 00:57:28,719
They established a whole city monument. It's a really small town.

1088
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:30,480
You drive right through if you didn't know where you're going.

1089
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,760
And unfortunately the person at the time who was involved

1090
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,719
the city, who helped with all of that, it was

1091
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,440
cool that they did that, but they turned out they

1092
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,000
apparently went rogue and turned into a huge criminal and

1093
00:57:41,039 --> 00:57:44,079
still a bunch of like hundreds of thousands of dollars,

1094
00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:47,360
if not like more than a million and that's not cool.

1095
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,920
So they burned down the city hall, you know, destroying

1096
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:53,519
all of the evidence of that. And then the museum

1097
00:57:53,639 --> 00:57:57,039
that would research some of the historical Aurora documents and

1098
00:57:57,039 --> 00:58:00,920
files and city information burned down last year, and so

1099
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,400
really unfortunate, strange fires. I don't know that there's any

1100
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,159
connection between all of that, but it's just unfortunate either way,

1101
00:58:09,199 --> 00:58:10,880
how we lose history. So I'm doing what I can

1102
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,039
to keep track of that. But you know, as far

1103
00:58:13,079 --> 00:58:16,480
as a real investigative effort, you know, hopefully there can

1104
00:58:16,519 --> 00:58:18,239
be more. But I would say for anyone who's interested

1105
00:58:18,239 --> 00:58:20,760
to check out the two thousand and eight episode of

1106
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:27,079
the UFO Hunters. I think it's called The First Contact. Yep, yeah, yeah,

1107
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:28,320
I talked to him about that.

1108
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 2: I remember.

1109
00:58:29,679 --> 00:58:33,159
Speaker 1: But here's here's a question, and I want to go

1110
00:58:33,199 --> 00:58:35,639
into a different one after this. Have you ever interviewed

1111
00:58:36,119 --> 00:58:38,280
I don't know if you know of this particular case

1112
00:58:38,599 --> 00:58:41,440
where there was a huge triangle craft witness overs property.

1113
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 2: Are you familiar with that?

1114
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,679
Speaker 3: There are veryou strangular cases. I mean, if I had

1115
00:58:46,719 --> 00:58:49,320
maybe a little bit more information on that, it doesn't

1116
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,119
sound particularly familiar. Although I do know there have been

1117
00:58:53,199 --> 00:58:57,639
like in sixty five, nineteen sixty five, I think in Damon, Texas,

1118
00:58:58,599 --> 00:59:02,079
or there's one sixty five, but there's one around there

1119
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,320
a Sherman. Perhaps that was an enormous triangular object seen

1120
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:09,480
by law enforcement, and that's probably a different case, but

1121
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,440
that I think just goes to show that people are

1122
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,159
seeing triangular objects. They're not just seeing discs or amorphous lights.

1123
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,599
But apparently there are triangular objects that are seeing and mixes. Again,

1124
00:59:19,639 --> 00:59:21,519
wonder if they are hours there is, what's going on

1125
00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:24,679
with that. I'm not sure about that particularly one, but yeah,

1126
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,800
I'd be glad to find out more if anyone would

1127
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,440
like to, you know, get connected and share about what

1128
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:29,760
they know.

1129
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:37,199
Speaker 1: I wrote him when he first posted that, and someone said,

1130
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,840
isn't that Stephenville But that was a different thing. But anyway,

1131
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:44,880
hopefully he'll he'll post where that was in particular. But

1132
00:59:45,079 --> 00:59:49,079
let's there was a case was in eighteen eighty three,

1133
00:59:49,519 --> 00:59:52,639
also in Texas. Marpha lights.

1134
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is cool. This is a little bit of

1135
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,800
a tangent off from the main a UFO. You could

1136
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,239
tiperary outlook of like mechanical nuts bolts craft. So the

1137
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:05,079
Marpha lights is a mystery light phenomenon that people have

1138
01:00:05,239 --> 01:00:07,920
seen out in the deserts of West Texas, the Chuahuan

1139
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,440
Desert for years. The first documented sighting is in eighteen

1140
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:16,480
eighty three a man named Robert Ellison, and he basically

1141
01:00:16,559 --> 01:00:18,480
shared that he could see these strange lights, but that

1142
01:00:18,519 --> 01:00:20,800
people had already been seeing them for years and thought

1143
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,079
that they were either campfires or some kind of ghost light,

1144
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,239
like a supernatural phenomenon, and people would ride out into

1145
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,360
the desert and try to look for these things. But

1146
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,079
that's the earliest known recording is in eighteen eighty three. Now,

1147
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,159
from two thousand and one until today, there's this viewing

1148
01:00:36,199 --> 01:00:39,280
platform that's been erected. It's looking out at a place

1149
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,519
called Mitchell Flat, which is way out in the desert.

1150
01:00:41,559 --> 01:00:44,760
The light phenomenon that can be viewed or witnessed there

1151
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,079
is not just a singular issue that someone saw once

1152
01:00:47,159 --> 01:00:49,360
in history and that was it, But it's an ongoing

1153
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,880
phenomenon that you can go out there and check out

1154
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:53,960
pretty much any time of the year or the night,

1155
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,039
not during the day, but at night. So what you're

1156
01:00:57,199 --> 01:00:59,519
looking at here is a series of pictures that I

1157
01:00:59,559 --> 01:01:03,599
took with my camcorder. I think this was about five

1158
01:01:03,679 --> 01:01:06,639
or six years ago. The top one top row are

1159
01:01:06,639 --> 01:01:09,199
all four lights moving, and they move all in perfect

1160
01:01:09,199 --> 01:01:12,239
synchronicity with one another. The second row is a group

1161
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,159
of what looked like one light that merged or split

1162
01:01:15,199 --> 01:01:18,360
into two and have a sort of core in the center.

1163
01:01:19,199 --> 01:01:22,360
And the last row is one light over a like

1164
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,679
a exposure of about a minute that seemed to change

1165
01:01:25,679 --> 01:01:28,320
colors or the light frequencies were affecting my camera's ability

1166
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,079
to interpret what it was looking at. So I don't

1167
01:01:31,079 --> 01:01:33,000
know what the Marpha lights are. Some people consider that

1168
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:38,480
they're a natural geophysical phenomenon, perhaps due to Pizzio electricity,

1169
01:01:38,719 --> 01:01:42,280
quartz and the tectonic plating, all these ideas, which are

1170
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,360
pretty cool. And I think that it's not an interactive phenomenon,

1171
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,800
meaning it's probably not an intelligent life form, although that

1172
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,719
would be interesting that has been speculated. But they are

1173
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,679
some kind of light phenomenon that basically shows that there's movement,

1174
01:01:55,679 --> 01:01:57,960
there's a sort of a pattern, and that probably could

1175
01:01:58,159 --> 01:02:00,920
be what helps us understand a little bit more about

1176
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,559
what these mystery lights are that people see not just

1177
01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:06,639
in Marfa but other places around the world. This is

1178
01:02:06,679 --> 01:02:08,840
just one of them and there's also other ideas of

1179
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,840
what's called Bragg Road or Ghost Light Road in north

1180
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,920
of Houston, Texas. I've been to, which is kind of similar.

1181
01:02:14,159 --> 01:02:17,039
But these aren't. These marfl mystery lights are not way

1182
01:02:17,079 --> 01:02:20,400
up in the sky. They're way over the desert, hovering.

1183
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:22,519
You can see the illumination of the ground below. But

1184
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,000
it is in this I'd say important part of including

1185
01:02:26,039 --> 01:02:29,079
this in the talk of UFOs, because you know, it

1186
01:02:29,159 --> 01:02:31,880
just goes to show that UFOs are again not one

1187
01:02:32,119 --> 01:02:37,360
unified objective idea other than there's just something unidentified or unknown,

1188
01:02:37,519 --> 01:02:40,400
so whatever those are are very confusing. There's a historical

1189
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,360
marker out there that talks about and explained phenomenon, and

1190
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,199
this is another marker there that talks about the history

1191
01:02:46,239 --> 01:02:49,519
of the lights. So definitely interesting place to go. It's

1192
01:02:49,559 --> 01:02:51,199
got a twenty four hour rest stop there at the

1193
01:02:51,239 --> 01:02:53,639
viewing area. So I always recommend for anyone who wants

1194
01:02:53,639 --> 01:02:55,519
to see you at UFO go check out the Marpha

1195
01:02:55,599 --> 01:02:56,800
lights any time of year.

1196
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have. I got to do that someday.

1197
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:03,119
Speaker 1: And you know the strangest thing about that is, you know,

1198
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:07,039
well these pictures again, you know, I'm assuming that you

1199
01:03:07,239 --> 01:03:09,719
just pieced all this together, so you know, just to

1200
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,480
give an overall visual. But you said the top lights

1201
01:03:12,719 --> 01:03:16,000
are in formation, and they do they actually move information.

1202
01:03:16,519 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, what I noticed, and this was just for sometimes

1203
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,119
that you have one and then you'd have another one

1204
01:03:21,159 --> 01:03:23,760
pop up and then maybe one another or two more

1205
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:28,000
or more, and they'd all move together sporadically, almost like

1206
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:30,599
a butterfly. And again, this isn't way up in the sky.

1207
01:03:30,679 --> 01:03:33,079
This is just way out in the desert, like on

1208
01:03:33,119 --> 01:03:36,000
the horizon, and it's at night time. And so the

1209
01:03:36,039 --> 01:03:39,920
first one you see of four lights was one photo.

1210
01:03:40,199 --> 01:03:42,599
This is a composite image here of like the different

1211
01:03:43,199 --> 01:03:45,800
lights you know that have been put together in one image.

1212
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,360
But the top row of four lights was all seen

1213
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,239
at once, and they all moved in the one way

1214
01:03:51,239 --> 01:03:53,079
eventually fade away. It just fade all the way back

1215
01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:57,159
to one. The best explanation for them, essentially is that

1216
01:03:57,199 --> 01:04:02,440
they've been able to determine because process of duplication or

1217
01:04:02,639 --> 01:04:04,719
through repetition. You know, you have to be able to

1218
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:09,320
document something and be able to demonstrably show that it

1219
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:13,079
can be repeated in a scientific experiment. So one of

1220
01:04:13,119 --> 01:04:15,320
the challenges is that the only thing that they can

1221
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:18,639
that scientific investigations have done to show this is that

1222
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,480
basically car headlights have been seen and have been misinterpreted

1223
01:04:23,559 --> 01:04:26,199
as what we call the Marpha lights. But apparently they've

1224
01:04:26,199 --> 01:04:30,480
been seen since before there were even cars or highways.

1225
01:04:30,519 --> 01:04:33,360
So something is out there, and whether it's a tangible

1226
01:04:34,519 --> 01:04:39,559
form or entity, or it's a products a causality of

1227
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:43,599
some you know, issued geomagnetically or physically, whatever it is.

1228
01:04:44,119 --> 01:04:46,360
There's a pretty cool book, number of books, but this

1229
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,360
is one of them called The Mysteries of the Marphal

1230
01:04:48,559 --> 01:04:52,599
Lights Revealed, another good book about the investigations done, and

1231
01:04:52,639 --> 01:04:56,760
it's just a number of the important investigative parts about that.

1232
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,599
How you know, some people do refer to it as

1233
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:02,519
you know, geophysical and some people think that maybe they

1234
01:05:02,559 --> 01:05:05,360
are like beings that have been there forever or something.

1235
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:08,519
So ideas like that float around, but you know, that

1236
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:11,280
is one of the ongoing mysteries that you can go

1237
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:13,679
and check out anytime. Marfa, Texas.

1238
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,719
Speaker 1: Now it comes to mind brown mountain lights. I don't

1239
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,880
know if you've heard of them. That's in Virginia, I believe,

1240
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,599
I can't remember exactly where that is. I think it

1241
01:05:23,679 --> 01:05:27,159
is a West Virginia, there's a brown Mountain lights and

1242
01:05:27,239 --> 01:05:31,280
I've had someone that had a film of that on

1243
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,320
this show. And you know, I believe you said there

1244
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,599
was a high copper content. You're talking about quartz. It

1245
01:05:37,639 --> 01:05:40,159
seems like it's associated a lot of times with some

1246
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,880
type of mineral or geological type of situation. And there's

1247
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:49,719
also in the Bridgewater Triangle, the Hackamack Swamp, I think

1248
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,280
it's called something like that, that they see these lights

1249
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,519
and they have seen them, you know, in the nineteenth

1250
01:05:55,599 --> 01:05:59,199
century as well. So really it's really quite interesting and

1251
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,000
makes you know, most likely all these are natural but

1252
01:06:02,159 --> 01:06:04,519
very strange phenomena.

1253
01:06:04,639 --> 01:06:07,519
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think either way, whether they are what

1254
01:06:07,559 --> 01:06:10,079
we could say is naturally or like terrestrial based or not,

1255
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,519
there's still a lot we can learn. And that's great,

1256
01:06:12,559 --> 01:06:14,480
even if it's not always going to end up being

1257
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:16,960
alien space or something. I think it's important to also

1258
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,440
keep that in mind, is that we can still learn

1259
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:20,159
a lot.

1260
01:06:20,599 --> 01:06:23,039
Speaker 1: Right, And so what I'd like to do is if

1261
01:06:23,079 --> 01:06:25,480
we keep talking just a little bit longer, I don't know,

1262
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,400
maybe another half hour or fifteen minutes to half an hour,

1263
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,440
but I'd like to talk about two cases.

1264
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,239
Speaker 2: That I have an interest in.

1265
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 1: One of them, of course, is a cash landrum and the

1266
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,800
other one is the Lubuk Lubbock Lubbock I always say it.

1267
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 2: Wrong, Yeah, no, the Lublic lights. Which one would you

1268
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:45,719
like to talk about first.

1269
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:48,159
Speaker 3: Well, we can get into the lights first, Lubbock lights.

1270
01:06:48,199 --> 01:06:50,440
I think that one's important to just mention because of

1271
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,599
very similar to some of the ideas of the more

1272
01:06:54,719 --> 01:06:57,320
notable UFO cases out there. One we mentioned earlier the

1273
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:01,360
Stephenville some people say the Stephenville Lights or Steve Blifo.

1274
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,559
This was documented. This is a series of photographs taken

1275
01:07:05,599 --> 01:07:10,079
by not just scientists but professors there at the Technical

1276
01:07:10,119 --> 01:07:13,719
college of the time now it's Texas Tech. And this

1277
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:16,440
was seen by multiple people leading up to this. This

1278
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:20,519
is an interesting idea that is proposed that these lights,

1279
01:07:20,519 --> 01:07:23,039
as you can see, are individual lights that maybe came

1280
01:07:23,079 --> 01:07:25,920
together to form a massive delta or V shaped craft.

1281
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:30,119
And so the idea that was put forward by some

1282
01:07:30,199 --> 01:07:34,079
of the other alternative considerations with that these were plovers

1283
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:38,119
or plover birds reflecting lights off of the newly installed

1284
01:07:38,119 --> 01:07:42,280
street lamps nearby in town. And this was also used

1285
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:46,039
as a way to investigate some of the early government

1286
01:07:46,119 --> 01:07:50,920
military efforts. It was something that Rupe Belt wrote about

1287
01:07:51,199 --> 01:07:54,559
in his book. It's actually one of the cover photographs

1288
01:07:54,559 --> 01:07:59,320
for the Historic UFO book by Edward Rupolt. And Project

1289
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,840
Blue Book is as a big proponent of this case,

1290
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,719
and you know, it was something that I think they

1291
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,079
thought highly enough was that we've got it, just like

1292
01:08:06,239 --> 01:08:08,559
the whole Stephenville issue. If we've got something this big

1293
01:08:08,599 --> 01:08:12,199
flying over a major city, something needs to be checked into.

1294
01:08:12,719 --> 01:08:15,000
So that's an interesting idea that in nineteen fifty one

1295
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:21,199
there's this enormous craft potentially or plover birds if you like,

1296
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:26,399
flying over enough, getting enough attention to warrant the official

1297
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,920
investigation of the government. And if you want a fun

1298
01:08:30,039 --> 01:08:33,800
recreation of this, you can watch episode three of season

1299
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,439
one of Project Blue Book, the fictionalized version on the

1300
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:40,760
History Channel that is all about the Leviric lights incident.

1301
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,479
So it's you know, it's a fictionalized version of the show.

1302
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,359
Some people can't stand that about it, but you know,

1303
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:48,840
have someone and watch this episode about the lubric lights

1304
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,159
on the Project Blue Book show. And so it's a

1305
01:08:53,199 --> 01:08:56,880
pretty interesting episode in UFO history from Texas.

1306
01:08:57,239 --> 01:08:59,159
Speaker 2: Now, let me ask you this, what are these arrows?

1307
01:08:59,199 --> 01:09:01,600
Speaker 1: And by the way all these images are going to

1308
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,920
be for you that's listening in audio. All of these

1309
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,039
images are in the show notes. You can check them

1310
01:09:07,039 --> 01:09:09,239
out if you'd like, and there's always a link to

1311
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:11,880
the show notes on the audio podcast. So what is

1312
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,159
the arrow in all these images? One or two arrows?

1313
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 3: I think they seem to indicate separate or individual lights

1314
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,239
that were witnessed nearby but weren't part of the main

1315
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:24,880
formation as it seems, and that's to be used to

1316
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,319
point out I think that the idea of these moving

1317
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:32,760
objects were not all uniform, but they or that they

1318
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,840
weren't all a unified object, but they actually all had

1319
01:09:36,159 --> 01:09:38,840
some independence, and I think that's just to point out

1320
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:44,279
the notable independent ones from the main core group that

1321
01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:47,000
show movement, because you can see the ways that these

1322
01:09:47,279 --> 01:09:51,439
main lights work together is pretty even. Then you know,

1323
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,199
if you go from top left to top right, bottom

1324
01:09:54,279 --> 01:09:57,399
left to bottom right, they seem to move in a

1325
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:03,199
way that is separating them in giving the impression of motion.

1326
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:07,600
So this is a really fantastic photograph considering that how

1327
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:11,560
hard it is to find even modern legitimate photographs of UFO.

1328
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:16,119
Is there any unknown objects? Extremely impressive for nineteen fifty one.

1329
01:10:16,199 --> 01:10:17,640
I'd say, right.

1330
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,760
Speaker 1: Now, you talk about the witnesses, and there are from

1331
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:26,319
that tech school, and it seems to me that they

1332
01:10:26,359 --> 01:10:30,520
would know the difference between birds flying and you know,

1333
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,680
birds above even if they are being reflected, they could

1334
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:35,720
see that they're you know, flapping, that you would be

1335
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:37,680
able to see some type of movement that would be

1336
01:10:38,319 --> 01:10:44,239
you know, indicative of birds in flight. I'm just this

1337
01:10:44,319 --> 01:10:46,760
is all speculation because I don't know, but it just

1338
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,159
seems to me that they would be intelligent enough to say, oh,

1339
01:10:49,239 --> 01:10:50,479
that's you know, just birds.

1340
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:52,560
Speaker 2: But they actually took pictures of.

1341
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:55,039
Speaker 1: What they were seeing, so they must have believed it

1342
01:10:55,119 --> 01:10:59,199
was you know, more of just the reflections, you know.

1343
01:10:59,279 --> 01:11:02,760
I mean, is there in the witness accounts are they

1344
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:07,319
talking about they look like actually like lights themselves.

1345
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that it seems to be described as

1346
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:17,119
individual orb like lights that seem to form a shape.

1347
01:11:18,239 --> 01:11:21,079
It's hard to say that anyone really did see a

1348
01:11:21,199 --> 01:11:23,960
bird in the sense that it was obviously a bird,

1349
01:11:25,199 --> 01:11:29,199
but I think it's really interesting to consider that. As

1350
01:11:29,239 --> 01:11:31,279
you mentioned, it's one of the challenges we face. I

1351
01:11:31,279 --> 01:11:34,199
think as a society, it's ingrained with us to have

1352
01:11:34,239 --> 01:11:38,920
a plea to authority. Argument of authority is essentially that, well,

1353
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:42,920
if they are scientists and they are professors at a university,

1354
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:46,600
then they should have the know how and the authority

1355
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,159
of the discipline to be able to make that determination.

1356
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:53,920
Argument for authority sometimes gets the best of us, because

1357
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:57,520
you know, it could be that there were some birds seen,

1358
01:11:58,199 --> 01:12:01,920
but it could be that there was a genuine phenomenon

1359
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:04,319
that was witnessed that was nothing to do with birds.

1360
01:12:04,399 --> 01:12:06,760
So I think it's challenging us in some way to

1361
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:11,079
know that even experts, and I'm not saying UFO experts,

1362
01:12:11,119 --> 01:12:16,159
I'm saying scientific experts and their respective disciplines are sometimes

1363
01:12:16,199 --> 01:12:19,800
wrong and sometimes don't get things correct despite their background

1364
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:23,880
or their skills. It's important to remember that. So I

1365
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,000
don't know, I would say that just this being one

1366
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,520
of the most notable UFO photographs helps to establish it

1367
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,920
as giving it a face, so to speak, in this

1368
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:36,560
whole field and study, because without something like that, it

1369
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:42,720
really just becomes an account based upon testimony, and not

1370
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:47,119
just worded testimony that's been transcribed. But here is a

1371
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:51,439
physical representation of what people saw, and again enough so

1372
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:54,640
to give it consideration beyond just a few folks in

1373
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:58,239
town thought they might have seen birds to warrant official

1374
01:12:58,279 --> 01:13:01,720
investigation from the government out and say, what's going on

1375
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:04,920
in this you know, strange way out of nowhere Texas

1376
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:09,119
town that obviously birds are not has enough happening to

1377
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:13,359
get the federal side of things involved. So I think

1378
01:13:13,399 --> 01:13:16,319
that it could be that maybe some people did see birds.

1379
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,640
I don't know that that accounts for the totality of

1380
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:22,439
the Lubbic Lights incident, but it has actually had an

1381
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:24,560
impact on their town. They don't have a big festival

1382
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,760
or anything, but there's a publication called the Lubbic Lights

1383
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:30,239
that actually is proud to say that we're named this

1384
01:13:30,319 --> 01:13:33,079
because of our incident from fifty one, and they just

1385
01:13:33,119 --> 01:13:36,239
posted something about that, which I've shared on some social

1386
01:13:36,239 --> 01:13:37,600
media and stuff. But it's cool to see that, you know,

1387
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:40,520
people are embracing of this. It wasn't something I think

1388
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:46,239
people took as a an omen of invasion, like. It

1389
01:13:46,319 --> 01:13:49,279
wasn't a negatively interpreted event that I think had an

1390
01:13:49,319 --> 01:13:51,600
effect on the town in a bad way. But it

1391
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:54,920
did obviously put Lubbock on the map for the UFO

1392
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:59,039
crowd to remember the historic incident, you know, from all

1393
01:13:59,039 --> 01:14:02,600
these years back. At this point, these photographs really stand

1394
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,119
I think the test of time to show that people

1395
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:07,439
have been trying to capture something like this, whether it

1396
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:10,760
shows movement, it shows objects, whether it shows birds or not.

1397
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:14,439
It's really important to see that people have tried to

1398
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:16,479
make the effort of doing what we now think is

1399
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:18,960
sort of like a you know, a modern attempt at

1400
01:14:19,119 --> 01:14:21,399
investigating UFOs. This has been happening for well over half

1401
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:22,319
a century at this point.

1402
01:14:23,159 --> 01:14:25,159
Speaker 1: You know, it seems to me this would be very

1403
01:14:25,399 --> 01:14:29,199
easily provable if you have the exact location where that

1404
01:14:29,279 --> 01:14:33,560
picture was taken, to repeat it even right after, you know,

1405
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,720
if they were actually plovers flying. You know, so this

1406
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:42,399
is right, Lubbick is right near the shore shoreline, is it?

1407
01:14:42,399 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 3: It's definitely. It's all all the way out in West Texas.

1408
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:48,199
It's like probably five hours from me here in the

1409
01:14:48,279 --> 01:14:50,880
Dallas for what we're there, so not near the ocean

1410
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:51,800
or water at all.

1411
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:54,600
Speaker 2: So why would plovers be there?

1412
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:58,159
Speaker 1: You know, they're shorebirds, that's right, unless there's a water,

1413
01:14:58,239 --> 01:14:59,159
a body of water.

1414
01:14:59,199 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 2: They could be another b.

1415
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's the challenge of why's it seems

1416
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,960
so maybe ridiculous that the official explanation was the closest

1417
01:15:09,319 --> 01:15:12,640
type of explanation that made any sense to people who

1418
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:14,840
had say in the matter, was that these must have

1419
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:18,640
been birds reflecting the lights that were newly installed in

1420
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,000
town like two miles away. So it doesn't really hold up.

1421
01:15:22,079 --> 01:15:24,520
But it's it's just a difficult type of thing that,

1422
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,039
you know, it's hard. I think since could be made

1423
01:15:28,039 --> 01:15:31,760
out of that being people seeing birds, but it seems

1424
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:34,159
like a stretch to me. But maybe you know, so

1425
01:15:34,239 --> 01:15:37,319
I think that it's important to see how Yeah, it's

1426
01:15:37,359 --> 01:15:41,199
it's definitely landlocked, it's nowhere near the water, and it's

1427
01:15:41,399 --> 01:15:44,159
it's not just seen by some people out in their backyard.

1428
01:15:44,159 --> 01:15:47,840
It's seen by people in town, people in the community, academics,

1429
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,319
you know, and they thought enough of it to try

1430
01:15:50,319 --> 01:15:52,520
to document it by taking pictures and being ready to

1431
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:54,760
do that because it was over a series of nights

1432
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:56,560
and so it's not just a one time thing.

1433
01:15:57,560 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 2: Oh how about that? Wow?

1434
01:15:59,239 --> 01:16:02,239
Speaker 1: Okay, Well that's to me. I always thought that was

1435
01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:03,199
an interesting one.

1436
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:04,680
Speaker 2: And so many you know, I.

1437
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:09,039
Speaker 1: Mean, Texas is so huge, you know, I mean, it's

1438
01:16:09,159 --> 01:16:12,359
just such a vast amount of land. Like you said,

1439
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,479
that's five hours from you. But you know, to travel

1440
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:17,640
from one if you were traveling to each corner of

1441
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:18,039
the state.

1442
01:16:18,359 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 2: There was a.

1443
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: Friend that I had back in the seventies when he

1444
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:24,760
was in high school. He did a report. I think

1445
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:27,279
he said every at that time, every single person in

1446
01:16:27,319 --> 01:16:30,760
the world could fit three to an acre or something

1447
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,560
in Texas. It was something ridiculous. I mean, that's how

1448
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:38,239
much land there is there, which is so vast, and

1449
01:16:38,279 --> 01:16:40,159
I know when I've driven across it, it seems like

1450
01:16:40,199 --> 01:16:45,199
it takes forever. Cash Landrum nineteen eighty This is a

1451
01:16:45,319 --> 01:16:50,680
really to me. You know, my thoughts already is that

1452
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:54,119
it was a government experiment gone wrong. That's that's kind

1453
01:16:54,119 --> 01:16:55,840
of the bottom line of what I think it is.

1454
01:16:56,119 --> 01:16:58,239
But I want to know what you think about the

1455
01:16:58,279 --> 01:16:58,720
whole thing.

1456
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:03,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's when you asked earlier, what's like

1457
01:17:03,399 --> 01:17:05,199
the one case that stands out to me, It's hard

1458
01:17:05,319 --> 01:17:07,239
not to say this one. And I think the reason

1459
01:17:07,319 --> 01:17:12,399
why is because it pinpoints several issues about the UFO

1460
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:17,560
subject and UFO culture that I think is a difficult

1461
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,399
area to focus in on, Because people want things to

1462
01:17:20,399 --> 01:17:22,520
be more exotic than they actually are. People want there

1463
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,239
to be alien spaceships, people want there to be alien

1464
01:17:25,279 --> 01:17:27,840
beings and all this, and I think the very well

1465
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,640
could be. I don't try to make any assertions or

1466
01:17:31,279 --> 01:17:34,479
bold claims that I are, you know, way outside of

1467
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:37,119
my ability to make those determinations. I think it's all interesting,

1468
01:17:37,359 --> 01:17:40,079
and I think that there are some challenges with certain cases.

1469
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:42,479
The thing about the Cash Landom case, I would say

1470
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:44,800
the Definitive book that's been put out by John Schuster

1471
01:17:45,239 --> 01:17:49,600
has some pretty cool artwork that shows what these three

1472
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:55,720
people witnessed in December of nineteen eighty. What you have

1473
01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:01,319
happened basically December twenty ninth. You have been Cash, Vicky

1474
01:18:01,399 --> 01:18:04,319
Landrum and her grandson Kolby Lantrum driving down an old

1475
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,680
country road. They were trying to find some places to

1476
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:10,720
play bingo and maybe eat, and after a night of

1477
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,880
looking around for things to do, they eventually were riding

1478
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:17,000
back on one of these old country roads and they

1479
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:22,159
started hearing and seeing several helicopters, and this got their

1480
01:18:22,159 --> 01:18:27,039
attention because amongst these helicopters was a strange square or

1481
01:18:27,079 --> 01:18:30,520
diamond shaped object that seemed to be emitting light and

1482
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:35,720
getting lower and lower. This whole convoy was very confusing

1483
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:40,800
because they counted up to nearly two dozen black some

1484
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:45,439
of them double rotors, Chinook helicopters, military helicopters, all surrounding

1485
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:49,479
this strange, glowing diamond shaped object which started, unfortunately to

1486
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:51,920
go down, seeming to be in distress, shooting an emitting

1487
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,119
light or fire flames down into the road in front

1488
01:18:55,119 --> 01:18:58,000
of them, causing them to have to stop. And this

1489
01:18:58,199 --> 01:19:04,279
was a pretty incredible thing to observe for them because

1490
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:08,079
the grandson at the time, Colby, asked his grandmother, Vicky,

1491
01:19:09,279 --> 01:19:11,880
what is that up there in the sky, and to

1492
01:19:12,359 --> 01:19:15,640
a la any concern or fear, she had told him

1493
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:20,760
that's Jesus, this is the Second Coming, And unfortunately that

1494
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:24,800
wasn't the case at all. It's very tragic what happened

1495
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:29,159
to them. Betty ended up getting out of the car

1496
01:19:29,239 --> 01:19:31,960
and Vicky kind of got out, and so they're seeing

1497
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:37,239
this giant craft, this object shooting emitting light down below,

1498
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:40,439
burning and scorching the road. They could feel this immense

1499
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:43,479
heat searing them actually to the point that they get

1500
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:45,960
back in the car and one of them put their

1501
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:49,479
hands on the dash and it melted into the dash

1502
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:56,680
with an imprint. And eventually this whole entourage took off

1503
01:19:56,720 --> 01:20:01,840
and kept on going and they made it safely back home. Unfortunately,

1504
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,840
their hair started falling out, they had they had blisters

1505
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:09,199
all over their body, terribly sick, throwing up and we're

1506
01:20:10,119 --> 01:20:14,680
not doing very well. And they attempted to sue the

1507
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:19,079
Air Force because they were under the impression that this

1508
01:20:19,279 --> 01:20:23,119
was some kind of experimental craft that was being used

1509
01:20:23,159 --> 01:20:28,079
maybe in you know, secret or something that affected them

1510
01:20:28,119 --> 01:20:30,279
and made them unwell, and it seemed that they had

1511
01:20:30,319 --> 01:20:34,279
obvious and very bad signs of radiation poisoning. They didn't

1512
01:20:34,319 --> 01:20:37,279
die immediately from this, but it affected their lives greatly.

1513
01:20:38,119 --> 01:20:39,359
And I want to give you a shout out, Marek,

1514
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:42,640
because you actually have had Colby Landrum, who was now

1515
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:46,319
an adult, one of the one of the few appearances

1516
01:20:46,359 --> 01:20:49,239
he's ever made in his adult life, to tell about

1517
01:20:49,239 --> 01:20:53,720
this historic yet tragic event. And I think it's really

1518
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:57,359
important that we we can note that you've done that

1519
01:20:57,399 --> 01:21:00,000
to be able to share with this. It's incredibly difficult

1520
01:21:00,199 --> 01:21:02,239
for anyone to come forward about this. And I would

1521
01:21:02,279 --> 01:21:03,920
say that it's also important to note that they in

1522
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,239
no way ever insinuated that they thought this was an

1523
01:21:06,279 --> 01:21:10,560
alien or extraterrestrial craft or technology, but at every chance

1524
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:12,600
that they could. They tried to hold the government and

1525
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:18,000
military accountable, which very likely never happened. There are some

1526
01:21:18,119 --> 01:21:21,960
people who find some challenges with the story. I think

1527
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:26,840
it's very unfortunate what happened to these people. Colby Landrum

1528
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,840
is the only living witness and victim I would say,

1529
01:21:30,039 --> 01:21:32,680
of the incident at this point. This took place north

1530
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:37,399
of Houston, in an area now called Huffman in Montgomery County.

1531
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:42,960
And it's not something that has a historical marker. But

1532
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:45,960
the picture that you pulled up first is actually a

1533
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:48,920
photograph I took two and a half years ago of

1534
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:52,960
the original location. It's been redone. One of the interesting

1535
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,119
things about what John Schusler of Muffawn describes and their

1536
01:21:56,119 --> 01:21:59,840
investigation is that a clandestine cleanup crew came over and

1537
01:22:00,199 --> 01:22:03,560
did the road almost immediately, but there was apparently a

1538
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:06,239
black spot. I got this location from a witness who

1539
01:22:06,279 --> 01:22:08,640
said they lived there, they knew what happened while they

1540
01:22:09,279 --> 01:22:12,960
were there. While it happened in a dark circle was

1541
01:22:13,039 --> 01:22:15,479
left on the road, and so that all apparently has

1542
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:18,199
been redone several times now. It's been a number of years,

1543
01:22:18,359 --> 01:22:21,960
forty years. And I should also note that the curious

1544
01:22:22,039 --> 01:22:24,319
thing about this case, maybe there's not any directly as

1545
01:22:24,359 --> 01:22:28,439
soon as that half a world away over in Suffolk,

1546
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:35,039
England Rundalsham Forest, you have the Rundalstrom Forest UFO incident

1547
01:22:35,079 --> 01:22:38,359
happening basically at the same exact time December of twenty

1548
01:22:38,399 --> 01:22:42,520
sixth seven, twenty eighth and twenty ninth, and you know,

1549
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:44,279
the last day is probably one of the more notable

1550
01:22:44,359 --> 01:22:48,399
days for that. So it's interesting, you know, the rendalsm

1551
01:22:49,319 --> 01:22:53,640
UFO incident is the most notable UK or England UFO story,

1552
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:57,720
and in both instances you have people in close proximity

1553
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:01,920
to an unknown object and being affected by it physically,

1554
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:03,920
or that they are claimed to have been affected by it,

1555
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:06,720
And so I don't know that there's any direct connection

1556
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:08,840
to that, but I would say that, you know, the

1557
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,159
one in Texas I think is very unfortunate because they

1558
01:23:12,199 --> 01:23:15,319
never that to my knowledge, received any medical aid that was,

1559
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:19,359
you know, from anyone being held accountable for this. But

1560
01:23:19,399 --> 01:23:22,439
I also wonder, you know, when else would you ever

1561
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:27,479
see twenty three helicopters all at once, Maybe an air show,

1562
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:34,079
maybe a maneuver or demonstration or wargame scenario being conducted.

1563
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:38,000
But it's very rare that anyone sees that many helicopters

1564
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:44,039
on any basis. So to my outlook on that is

1565
01:23:44,079 --> 01:23:47,479
to also wonder were those people affected, Did those people

1566
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:49,520
and those helicopters know what they were even doing or

1567
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:51,680
what they were next to, or that we'll ever hear

1568
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:55,319
from any of them coming forward about this. Now, there

1569
01:23:55,359 --> 01:23:57,399
have been people who've come forward to say, well, yeah,

1570
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:00,239
that's objects, you know, like Richard Dody claims that this

1571
01:24:00,279 --> 01:24:03,880
object came from Area fifty one. Now he can claim

1572
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,600
that he can also say anything. And it's also difficult

1573
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:10,800
to really pin down whether you can trust someone like that.

1574
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:14,359
And I've talked to him, I've interviewed him face to face,

1575
01:24:14,399 --> 01:24:17,039
and I think that you know, people get the wrong

1576
01:24:17,039 --> 01:24:19,800
impression about guilty by association. If you talk to this

1577
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:23,359
person in eupology, then you're suddenly you've lost all integrity.

1578
01:24:23,359 --> 01:24:25,079
And I think that that's really I mean, I get

1579
01:24:25,079 --> 01:24:27,439
it in some part of me thinks that that's all nonsense,

1580
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:29,520
because if you're doing something to talk to people, it

1581
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:33,520
doesn't necessarily equal advocacy. I don't think that it's necessarily

1582
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:35,600
that you people you know, like you have anyone on

1583
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:37,800
your show doesn't immediately mean that you're in agreement with

1584
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,359
them or that you believe everything they are sharing. Right.

1585
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:42,680
So it's one of those things where you know, I've

1586
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:45,560
met Doty, have talked to him. He says that this

1587
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,920
object came from every fifty one. I don't know about that.

1588
01:24:49,159 --> 01:24:51,279
I think that's a wild claim that there's no way

1589
01:24:51,319 --> 01:24:55,039
to prove that at all. It's very interesting. I think

1590
01:24:55,119 --> 01:24:57,560
that it very well could be an object from a

1591
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:00,560
nearby facility, perhaps even from here in Texas. There are

1592
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:05,039
apparently a number of secretive underground it or military installations

1593
01:25:05,039 --> 01:25:08,640
here in Texas that could easily get a number of

1594
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:11,760
those helicopters out up in the air in a very

1595
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:15,800
short amount of time, specifically for a circumstance like this. Now,

1596
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:18,159
the weird thing about it is we don't know if

1597
01:25:18,159 --> 01:25:21,880
those helicopters were already there, were there in pursuit of

1598
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:24,680
the objects as it was potentially going down, if they

1599
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:27,600
were escorting it. A lot of speculation. So I think

1600
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:29,640
that my outlook on it is that I think that

1601
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:35,600
it's an experimental or maybe a craft that was having

1602
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:38,439
some distress, and if there were pilots in there, that's

1603
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:41,239
really unfortunate because you know, if we're talking about two

1604
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,960
people passers by two or three really that got affected

1605
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:48,119
by this from cars view away, like imagine that the

1606
01:25:48,159 --> 01:25:51,600
pilots inside. It's hard to say, you know, and I

1607
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:54,680
don't want to wildly speculate on anything really, but I

1608
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:56,439
would say that it's important to keep in mind that

1609
01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:58,479
there are a lot of challenging factors about the Cash

1610
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:02,680
Lange and that make us that should make us reconsider

1611
01:26:03,039 --> 01:26:06,880
some of those positions that we hold close to our heart.

1612
01:26:07,279 --> 01:26:09,840
Like you know, maybe you know some of all these

1613
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:11,680
things are et or they're not or whatever it is.

1614
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:13,920
I think that's important to realize that some people are

1615
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:17,159
being physically affected and not for the better, and that

1616
01:26:17,239 --> 01:26:21,239
these you know, Cash and Landrum, all of them never

1617
01:26:21,319 --> 01:26:24,119
assumed this was an alien spaceship, and they tried to

1618
01:26:24,239 --> 01:26:27,680
rightfully sue the Air Force because that's the only people

1619
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:30,479
that they could consider could have been responsible, and that

1620
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:33,199
they couldn't. It didn't work, They couldn't sue them. It

1621
01:26:33,239 --> 01:26:35,760
never turned out in their favor, and they just said

1622
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:38,760
that they were never accountable. So in the event that

1623
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,560
you really trusted that answer that it wasn't really the

1624
01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:44,720
Air Force, that's almost even more wild to think that, Well,

1625
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:47,199
then who who really was it? Right, because it wasn't

1626
01:26:47,199 --> 01:26:49,359
the Air Force or maybe any other known branch of

1627
01:26:49,399 --> 01:26:50,880
the military, and they're not going to come out and

1628
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:52,840
be like, wow, well we were doing testing in the area.

1629
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,039
You know, there's never any accountability been made by any

1630
01:26:57,079 --> 01:27:01,199
government military about that. It makes it really kind of

1631
01:27:01,279 --> 01:27:05,399
an eye opener to consider, well, we haven't seen this

1632
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:07,439
pop up in an air show, and maybe there's a

1633
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,720
good reason. Maybe these experimental things weren't working out and

1634
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:12,960
that's one got out of hand, or who knows. So

1635
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:15,800
that's funny. It was it was a you know, nuclear

1636
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:17,319
propulsion or whatever it's going on.

1637
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:20,720
Speaker 1: The nuclear propulsion idea makes a lot of sense, and

1638
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:23,239
I know they were working with Stanton Freeman talked about,

1639
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:26,640
you know, him being involved in looking into that at

1640
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:29,880
some point maybe in Los Alamos or Westinghouse or somewhere.

1641
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:31,279
Speaker 2: I can't remember where it was.

1642
01:27:31,279 --> 01:27:34,720
Speaker 1: Where he said he actually was, you know, they were

1643
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:39,159
talking about nuclear propulsion back in the sixties, I thought,

1644
01:27:39,199 --> 01:27:42,119
he said, but on one of my shows he talked

1645
01:27:42,119 --> 01:27:42,600
about it.

1646
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,239
Speaker 2: But anyway, yeah, I.

1647
01:27:45,239 --> 01:27:47,399
Speaker 1: Mean for them to dig up the road and everything,

1648
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:51,000
and it sounds it sounds like radiation to me, you know,

1649
01:27:51,079 --> 01:27:53,560
with what they were suffering from and all that and

1650
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:58,880
crazy and this is a you know, someone saying that

1651
01:27:59,079 --> 01:28:03,520
Richard Doty claimed that cash landerm case was not military

1652
01:28:04,039 --> 01:28:05,359
testing nuclear power craft.

1653
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:07,800
Speaker 2: So I don't know where that.

1654
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: Comes from, Roger, I'm not really sure, but you know,

1655
01:28:12,239 --> 01:28:14,479
what to believe, Like, it's kind of hard to believe,

1656
01:28:15,079 --> 01:28:18,199
you know, Ricktody what he's saying. You know, he's on

1657
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:20,840
He's getting a lot of press these days, and I

1658
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:25,279
just don't know what to think about the integrity of

1659
01:28:25,279 --> 01:28:25,760
what he says.

1660
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:26,239
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1661
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:28,640
Speaker 3: I would just say that, I mean, I've definitely heard

1662
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:30,760
him say that. I don't know if it's true or not.

1663
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:32,439
I don't think there's a way to prove that it's true.

1664
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:35,039
I'm not necessarily saying that I believe that. I just

1665
01:28:35,119 --> 01:28:37,600
I would say that it's interesting when people can chime in,

1666
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,359
if you have a foothold in the eufology community and

1667
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:45,439
you chime in on a case that's historic that no

1668
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:47,319
one's really around. I mean, like you said, no one's

1669
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:50,680
COBE's not out there on shows's not at events and conferences.

1670
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:52,760
He actually probably wants nothing to do with any of

1671
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:54,560
this stuff, which right, you know, it makes a lot

1672
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:56,920
of sense. But you know, it's easy to comment on

1673
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,960
a case about a very sensational concept that you can't

1674
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:05,359
corroborate at all. It's sensational and maybe that's the intention.

1675
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:07,119
And I don't know, but I would say that it's

1676
01:29:07,159 --> 01:29:10,479
important to just know that people have chimed in about

1677
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,680
things like the Cash Lantern case and much more recent

1678
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:16,640
times in an attempt to either say it's this or that,

1679
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:19,640
And you know, I think it's important to just not

1680
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:23,439
lose track that these are important cases now forty years

1681
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:27,319
ago that really should make us reconsider some of the

1682
01:29:27,319 --> 01:29:29,960
things that we've seen and heard. And again, it's just

1683
01:29:30,119 --> 01:29:33,800
interesting that it coincides with the Rendalsian Force case as well.

1684
01:29:35,199 --> 01:29:36,800
Speaker 1: I think I'd like to end the show with this

1685
01:29:37,119 --> 01:29:39,439
last question for both of us. I'm not sure how

1686
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:41,840
I'm going to answer it, but Terrence, we're actually not

1687
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:43,439
going to be talking about the Rendalstrom Force.

1688
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:44,680
Speaker 2: Thank you for that question though.

1689
01:29:45,039 --> 01:29:49,640
Speaker 1: So one more question for us both, what is what

1690
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:51,920
do we hope to see.

1691
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 2: Happening by the end of twenty twenty four. Well, you

1692
01:29:59,039 --> 01:29:59,560
go first.

1693
01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:03,279
Speaker 3: I just think, you know, I'll just say this in closing,

1694
01:30:03,319 --> 01:30:04,960
I just want to give a shout out really quick

1695
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:07,279
to a lot of people have taken the time to

1696
01:30:07,359 --> 01:30:10,720
put some research together about Texas UFOs. We could go

1697
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:12,800
on for hours. I'll just and anyone can go and

1698
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:16,159
posies later on Close Encounters in the Texas kind by

1699
01:30:16,159 --> 01:30:21,199
my buddy Mitchell Whittington. Newer book Lone Star Saucers by

1700
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:25,159
another friend of mine Nate Riddle. Pretty cool catalogue and

1701
01:30:25,159 --> 01:30:27,520
then of course one of the best better ones I

1702
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:30,279
would say out there at Texas uf HO tales my

1703
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:34,560
cock and about Eric as well. And so I think

1704
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:36,279
it's really important to see that this is a you know,

1705
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:39,600
been documented for a long time, and that what is

1706
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:42,039
important about the historical cases that it can give us

1707
01:30:42,039 --> 01:30:45,439
some reference to what's happening now. I am not a

1708
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:48,720
big proponent of the disclosure movement, and I'm not saying

1709
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:50,760
that I am in disagreement with it, but I think

1710
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:53,520
that it's it's a bit of a pipe dream for

1711
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:55,920
a lot of people who think that the next fixed

1712
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:57,600
thing is that that there's going to come out and

1713
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:01,479
say they're here. And as as interesting as that would be,

1714
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:05,760
I actually tend to consider that I'm hopeful that there

1715
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:11,479
are some very serious people, you know, anthropologists and people

1716
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:17,600
who are in the appropriate disciplines to manage navigating the

1717
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:22,680
subsequent release of information pertaining to something that would eventually

1718
01:31:23,279 --> 01:31:27,399
have to be revealed in the extent that people think disclosure.

1719
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:30,560
Is this thing going to happen like all at once.

1720
01:31:31,079 --> 01:31:33,439
Why I say that is because all these things that

1721
01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:35,720
have happened over the last few years, there's a lot

1722
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:38,479
in the media that's never been discussed before, a lot

1723
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:41,159
in government and in Congress that's happening that's never really

1724
01:31:41,199 --> 01:31:43,920
happened in this way, it's important to keep eyes on

1725
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:46,760
this topic and issue. It's important to also, I think,

1726
01:31:47,319 --> 01:31:51,439
not necessarily just be persuaded by what looks and sounds good,

1727
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:55,880
because there's a lot of fraternization, there's a lot of unfortunate,

1728
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:58,319
a lot of drama when it comes to the research

1729
01:31:58,359 --> 01:32:00,760
in the community of people. I think it's important to

1730
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:03,319
also see that there are motives and agendas at play

1731
01:32:03,359 --> 01:32:07,159
by various parties with various interests. I think that when

1732
01:32:07,159 --> 01:32:09,920
it comes to what's happening in government, we should all

1733
01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:12,640
pay attention. We don't necessarily have to say that, you know,

1734
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:14,560
we believe or have to go with what's being said.

1735
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:16,479
We should just make sure we're at least aware of

1736
01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:19,359
the current events and issues taking place, like the recent

1737
01:32:20,119 --> 01:32:23,359
upcoming hearings going on and just like a little over

1738
01:32:23,359 --> 01:32:25,119
a week, I think, and that's important to know that,

1739
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:27,520
you know, we can at least see what was happening,

1740
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:32,279
whether there's any real motion or momentum to this or not.

1741
01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:34,840
I think it's really something that we have to think

1742
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:37,479
about in a different way than suddenly they're just going

1743
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:40,399
to announce things happening. And I would just say overall,

1744
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:44,479
in my perspective, I'm hopeful that things will continue to

1745
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:48,720
develop in a way that is encouraging of steps in

1746
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:53,800
society towards embracing and being open minded to learning more

1747
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:58,039
about the world and beyond of what we live with,

1748
01:32:58,479 --> 01:33:01,840
you know, here together and then what could potentially be beyond

1749
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:03,439
our world in a way that helps us open our

1750
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:06,079
mind to the possibility that normally are we not alone.

1751
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:09,960
But hopefully that'll make us come closer together as humans,

1752
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:13,399
as humanity, and in a way that's going to be helpful,

1753
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:16,640
you know, in uniting us rather than dividing us. And

1754
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:18,680
I think it's going to be a tough set of

1755
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:21,800
hurdles to go through. But I do think that, you know,

1756
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:28,079
with small steps of releasing information regarding not just you know,

1757
01:33:28,359 --> 01:33:33,399
revealed or previously concealed information, like people want the government

1758
01:33:33,439 --> 01:33:35,199
to come clean, I don't know that that's ever going

1759
01:33:35,279 --> 01:33:39,319
to happen in my view. Disclosure is this idea that

1760
01:33:39,359 --> 01:33:41,680
the government's going to come out and say, Okay, sorry, guys,

1761
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:44,880
we've been lying all you know for almost a century

1762
01:33:45,239 --> 01:33:48,680
or more maybe and we're sorry and this is actually

1763
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:50,439
what's going on. I don't think that's ever going to happen.

1764
01:33:50,439 --> 01:33:53,000
I don't think there's any accountability ever going to happen.

1765
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:54,560
I mean, we could still see that same thing with

1766
01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:56,960
JFK and all this. I would say, though, what an

1767
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:00,239
alternative route would be is to be hopeful that there

1768
01:34:00,279 --> 01:34:03,399
are people in place that have the ability and resources

1769
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:10,119
to integrate these concepts and smaller increments or adjustable increments

1770
01:34:10,119 --> 01:34:13,319
that develop with potential findings that are going to be

1771
01:34:13,359 --> 01:34:16,479
current and relevant rather than historic in a way that

1772
01:34:16,680 --> 01:34:19,359
you can maybe lend credence to looking back at other

1773
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:22,520
historic instances that might change our outlook all together. So anyway,

1774
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:24,840
I would just say that let's pay attention, what's going on.

1775
01:34:25,039 --> 01:34:28,439
Let's keep our minds open to the possibilities, and we

1776
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:31,039
don't have to necessarily fall into one category another. We're

1777
01:34:31,039 --> 01:34:33,880
all doing what we can not everyone's on the same page,

1778
01:34:33,880 --> 01:34:35,800
and I don't think that that's ever going to happen,

1779
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:37,760
but we can at least know that, you know, the

1780
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:39,760
more we are learning about our place in the universe,

1781
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:41,960
it will help bring us together. And I'm hopeful that

1782
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:44,199
we can be able to have more compassion towards one

1783
01:34:44,239 --> 01:34:45,079
another because of that.

1784
01:34:46,319 --> 01:34:48,439
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, what he said, that's what I'll have to say.

1785
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:53,279
That was perfectly said. Thank you so much, and yeah,

1786
01:34:53,319 --> 01:34:56,479
what else could I hope for? But also for something

1787
01:34:56,520 --> 01:35:00,000
to bring us together, you know, and we could really

1788
01:35:00,199 --> 01:35:03,800
use that these days. And I really appreciate it. It's

1789
01:35:04,079 --> 01:35:07,520
it was you did not let me down. It's you

1790
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:10,680
did this show wonderfully, just like I thought you would be.

1791
01:35:11,039 --> 01:35:12,720
Speaker 2: And it's been a real pleasure having you on.

1792
01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:16,760
Speaker 1: And I want to remind everyone. You can go to

1793
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:19,439
the text in this program and you can see the

1794
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:22,199
what's the name of the Texas what's it called again?

1795
01:35:22,279 --> 01:35:26,079
Speaker 3: The webs Texas UFO Network, and you can also check

1796
01:35:26,079 --> 01:35:27,840
out a lot of the media and things I've been

1797
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:30,039
involved with on the Vortex as well.

1798
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:33,479
Speaker 2: Excellent. Thank you so much, it's been a real pleasure.

1799
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:36,399
Speaker 3: Thanks Martin, appreciate it's.

1800
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:38,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, take care all right everyone. So we'll be back

1801
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:41,319
next week as I said, with Larde Scranton, and remember

1802
01:35:41,359 --> 01:36:03,439
to keep your eyes to the sky. Thank you to everything,