Speaker 1: Hey, hey, welcome to part two of the Shell Lake Massacre.
Speaker 1: I'm Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim.
Speaker 2: A true crime podcast. Good morning. The following podcast and
Speaker 2: Jean's grabbing content and material intended more mature audience. Listener
Speaker 2: discretion is advice. Welcome back, Welcome to part two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you left us all hanging.
Speaker 2: I did. The first part was a little bit like
Speaker 2: a lot of information overload. So if you guys made
Speaker 2: it through the first part, good on you. If you
Speaker 2: haven't listened to it, you gotta listen to it. There's
Speaker 2: so much there.
Speaker 1: It was information overload, but it like had you on
Speaker 1: the oh, the edge of your seat.
Speaker 2: Definitely, sir, you gotta listen to it before you hear this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you left us right at this is like
Speaker 1: I need to know.
Speaker 2: Let's go right at the exact edge where it all
Speaker 2: takes place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where he's who was it the Pete something Peterson.
Speaker 2: The Peterson family's home. But who was the dude Victor
Speaker 2: Ernest Hoffman, Not that.
Speaker 1: Dude the duty ran into into the house.
Speaker 2: The dad that's James Peterson, James James and the Peterson
Speaker 2: family home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was looking for the James, Looking for the James.
Speaker 2: Why did you do Italian hands when you said looking
Speaker 2: for the James. Hey in the looking for the James,
Speaker 2: you know James b I don't know what just fell right, Wow, okay,
Speaker 2: that's interesting. I've never seen you do Italian hands before.
Speaker 1: Oh now, yeah, I'm keeping things real.
Speaker 2: I wonder if that's going to be like a reoccurring thing. Now,
Speaker 2: I'm going to watch out for.
Speaker 1: Those for my Italian an.
Speaker 2: You're looking for the James, I'm looking for the Italian hands.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, no chit chen.
Speaker 1: We want to know.
Speaker 2: So just a real quick recap where we left off.
Speaker 2: Victor was going through all his mental health stuff, got
Speaker 2: out of the hospital and he's still having those urges,
Speaker 2: and he ended up at the farmhouse of the Peterson family.
Speaker 2: So I'll read the last couple of sentences again of
Speaker 2: the last episode, just to refresh your mind yet. Okay,
Speaker 2: So when he entered the house, he recognized the kitchen,
Speaker 2: but he had seen it before in a dream.
Speaker 1: It was just wild.
Speaker 2: But that thought was cut short as he was greeted
Speaker 2: by the shouting of a man saying, who is it?
Speaker 2: I totally lost my spot.
Speaker 1: This is the James, This is the James.
Speaker 2: Inside the house was the family known as the Peterson's,
Speaker 2: and a man who was speaking was the father James Peterson, Like, what.
Speaker 1: The fuck are you doing to my house? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like two in the morning and someone walks
Speaker 2: into your house. I wouldn't, James, I'm a heavy sleeper.
Speaker 2: But if there's a noise, you know, sh it's gonna
Speaker 2: get real.
Speaker 1: We've gone over the right.
Speaker 2: You're there bolting down the stairs, ready to fight anybody,
Speaker 2: So James repeated himself, and when he saw the gun
Speaker 2: in Victor's hands, he jumped up, ready to come forward
Speaker 2: towards Victor and defend his family. Oh definitely, pants, I would.
Speaker 2: I probably would have already have shipped my pants just
Speaker 2: having someone come in my house at two am. I'd
Speaker 2: be like, who's there?
Speaker 1: So that's terrifying.
Speaker 2: Oh definitely. So he is ready to defend his family,
Speaker 2: and in that moment, as James stood up to come
Speaker 2: towards Victor, Victor swung the gun towards James and pulled
Speaker 2: the trigger. Yikes, shot and wounded. James kept coming forward
Speaker 2: towards Victor.
Speaker 1: Oh badass of the day badass of.
Speaker 2: The day right here. Definitely, he was definitely going forth
Speaker 2: to protect his family all costs. So props on you, James,
Speaker 2: you're the man.
Speaker 1: That's impressive.
Speaker 2: So by now the small farmhouse filled with the Peterson
Speaker 2: family was fully awake and in terror. Gunshots and loud
Speaker 2: noises going like crazy, I could imagine. So James managed
Speaker 2: to get to Victor and grab him by the neck,
Speaker 2: but he could only last so long because Victor began
Speaker 2: to shoot multiple times he unloaded. He shot James a
Speaker 2: total of eleven times.
Speaker 1: Wow, shit, before.
Speaker 2: He collapsed to the floor.
Speaker 1: That is that's a lot of times.
Speaker 2: That's horrific. And of course, like his wife is just
Speaker 2: right there as well, watching this, and the kids are
Speaker 2: now screaming.
Speaker 1: It's the vision that that is just terrifying. It's awful.
Speaker 2: Okay, get this though an interview with Victor afterwards. This
Speaker 2: is something he said in the interview or it might
Speaker 2: have been, sorry, not an interview, but like with the
Speaker 2: in the hospital interview sort of thing. Okay, So it's
Speaker 2: a direct quote from him. If he had talked quiet
Speaker 2: and told me I was wrong, it would have all
Speaker 2: been right. He could have helped me and I wouldn't
Speaker 2: have killed him, but he tried to stop me.
Speaker 1: The James dude, he's saying that, James, you should have
Speaker 1: just like talked softly to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you think he came he came forward to
Speaker 2: try and physically stop.
Speaker 1: Him breaking in his house was a gun, yes, but
Speaker 1: like I don't even know if that would have stopped him. Really,
Speaker 1: he had already had this super urge. Well, yes, and no,
Speaker 1: and no one would be no one would do that.
Speaker 2: Well, I agree, no one would do that. The first
Speaker 2: instinct is defend, right exactly. You know, you're most likely
Speaker 2: not gonna be like it's okay, put the gun down.
Speaker 2: You know, we're to help. Like, that's not someone's initial reaction.
Speaker 1: I guess that'd be a nice reaction to.
Speaker 2: But by that statement there, Victor, he's like, that's a
Speaker 2: call out for him.
Speaker 1: It's really sad.
Speaker 2: He just he's looking for someone to help.
Speaker 1: Him and no one's helping him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, James wasn't there to help him. He was there
Speaker 2: to defend his family. Yeah, that's not what or what
Speaker 2: Victor wanted. So James died because of that choice, which
Speaker 2: is the choice of us.
Speaker 1: Will make oh yeah, even more like ninety nine point.
Speaker 2: Nine note nine point ninety ninety nine repeater.
Speaker 1: Exactly, So dang, that's sad the shit.
Speaker 2: After James laid on the floor, Victor stepped farther into
Speaker 2: the house and to him he had no pity for
Speaker 2: the family. Another quote, I was a little scared when
Speaker 2: I shot him, but I wasn't sorry. To Victor, the
Speaker 2: Peterson's looked like quote unquote pigs. He was disgusted when
Speaker 2: he looked at them and had no respect for them.
Speaker 1: And were they almost like devil like then?
Speaker 2: Looking most likely?
Speaker 1: Yes, He described the devil as a pig.
Speaker 2: Yep. So two young girls hid under their covers in
Speaker 2: bed and shouted, please don't shoot. I don't want to die.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Victor didn't stop though he already murdered, so why stop now?
Speaker 2: He pulled the trigger and then pulled the trigger again.
Speaker 2: Now during all this, like I said, the mother of
Speaker 2: the family, Evelyn Peterson, she was there watching James try
Speaker 2: and fight off Victor.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, she.
Speaker 2: Was trying to escape. She was trying to climb out
Speaker 2: the window, and she was holding their baby.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, because I was like, what the frick O
Speaker 1: get your kids?
Speaker 2: No, she's she's holding their youngest, their baby. So she
Speaker 2: managed to climb out the window to the back, and
Speaker 2: just as she made it outside, she was shot. Victor
Speaker 2: went outside and ensured she didn't escape. He went back
Speaker 2: inside and continued to shoot everyone. He executed them, all,
Speaker 2: the entire family. He planned on shooting everyone in the
Speaker 2: head so he could cut off their heads and take
Speaker 2: the impaled bullets with them so there wouldn't be evidence
Speaker 2: left behind. However, some stray bullets he didn't bother because
Speaker 2: it's like I didn't get them all in the head.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh.
Speaker 2: Because here's the thing. Twenty two caliber rifles are notorious
Speaker 2: for this. The mafia back in the day would actually
Speaker 2: use twenty two caliber bullets because the bullet is small
Speaker 2: enough that it will enter the skull, but it will
Speaker 2: not exit, so it'll enter and like bounce around inside,
Speaker 2: essentially scrambling the brain.
Speaker 1: Sweet, that's a nice visual. I like that.
Speaker 2: Well, this is a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: That's real going there.
Speaker 2: So theoretically, if he did shoot everyone in the head head,
Speaker 2: their head would contain the evidence.
Speaker 1: But oh okay, but he like missed and she missed and.
Speaker 2: Ship, so that wasn't the case. There's no point. So
Speaker 2: he didn't end up doing that.
Speaker 1: But that was a stream is shit.
Speaker 2: So huh, now where am I here? I lost my spot?
Speaker 1: I still I still hung up on the whole, like
Speaker 1: if he would have spoke softly. I don't believe that shit.
Speaker 2: I mean, who's to say whether it's true or not.
Speaker 2: It's a clear cry for help though, And.
Speaker 1: I have another like firing question here, but I'm want
Speaker 1: to just keep it to myself because you're probably getting there.
Speaker 2: Yes I am.
Speaker 1: I really want to know.
Speaker 2: I know exactly what you're going for. And you remember
Speaker 2: when I warned everyone at the beginning of part one
Speaker 2: that there's a real heavy moment. We're getting to a
Speaker 2: real heavy moment, so Befoe warned. Oh so Victor saw
Speaker 2: and shot everyone, or so he thought. One little girl
Speaker 2: was actually seems, sitting in bed between her two dead siblings.
Speaker 2: She was cowering under the blankets, and that was four
Speaker 2: year old Phyllis Peterson. Victor raised his gun and pointed
Speaker 2: it at Phyllis, but he didn't pull the trigger. He
Speaker 2: actually let her live. He figured she couldn't really identify him,
Speaker 2: being four years old. Okay, right, I guess, And later on.
Speaker 2: He actually did say that she didn't look like a
Speaker 2: pig to him. She had the quote face of an angel.
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty sure that everyone else did look like
Speaker 2: a demon to him, like the pig demon thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if she looked like.
Speaker 1: An angel, she looked like she was being saved or something.
Speaker 2: So he did let her live.
Speaker 1: He didn't shoot her little four year old Phyllis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, little four year old Phyllis. So Victor clearly was
Speaker 2: like thinking about like thinking outside the box. He was
Speaker 2: already prepared to take the heads for the m O.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't want to leave evidence behind, so he
Speaker 2: was already on that. He began walking around and collecting
Speaker 2: bullet shells the cartridges from the shells left over, Okay,
Speaker 2: so he picked up seventeen in total and put them
Speaker 2: in his pocket. He took another jar full of ammunition
Speaker 2: from the house and a total of seven dollars from
Speaker 2: wallets that he found within the house. He left the
Speaker 2: house and planned on driving off, but when he did so,
Speaker 2: he heard something, uh, oh, something crying.
Speaker 1: Dang it.
Speaker 2: It was the baby.
Speaker 1: Dang it.
Speaker 2: The mother Evelyn was holding the baby when she tried
Speaker 2: to escape out the window. But yeah, that was baby Larry.
Speaker 2: Victor didn't want to shoot Larry, but he kind of thought,
Speaker 2: how long would it be until someone found him? A
Speaker 2: few days? Maybe Larry's probably not. Larry's likely to starve
Speaker 2: to death.
Speaker 1: So terrible reasoning.
Speaker 2: Victor didn't want him to suffer. That's that's his reasoning.
Speaker 1: That's shit.
Speaker 2: And Victor hated himself for doing it. But he raised
Speaker 2: his gun one last time and he shot baby Larry
Speaker 2: before leaving the Peterson farm behind.
Speaker 1: No, I was so hoping that little babe would be saved. Nope,
Speaker 1: just phyllis. Just phyllis, Which is interesting.
Speaker 2: So he claims he didn't want to shoot Larry. It
Speaker 2: was just a matter of he didn't want it to suffer.
Speaker 2: He didn't want that cat to suffer either. I'm just
Speaker 2: trying to play devil's advocation, I know, but that's no
Speaker 2: I know it's totally dumb, but I mean, there is
Speaker 2: a chance baby Larry could have suffered, so in his mind,
Speaker 2: he's putting baby Larry out of his misery. Yes, he's
Speaker 2: murdering in cold blood. Don't fucking do that, totally Gillius.
Speaker 1: She would have suffered too.
Speaker 2: She's four, she can feed herself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's surrounded by her dead family. That's worse. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: but so see that reasoning. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to argue his thought point. Not that
Speaker 2: I agree with this thought point. I'm just trying to
Speaker 2: get across his thoughts.
Speaker 1: No, just no, just no.
Speaker 2: Thank you for making this easier on me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to tell a story.
Speaker 1: Okay. No, I know where you're going.
Speaker 2: Okay, you good? No, are you like going to cry?
Speaker 1: Actually no, I'm okay, you sure, Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2: I need some tissues for your issues.
Speaker 1: I'm good.
Speaker 2: Okay, moving on, moving on from that. So that morning,
Speaker 2: someone actually arrived at the Peterson farm after Victor had left.
Speaker 1: Well exactly, I didn't think it'd be long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was another farmer by the name of wil
Speaker 2: Drew lang Wildrew was actually supposed to help James on
Speaker 2: the farm by doing some hanging in the fields. So
Speaker 2: it's actually convenient. It's it was scheduled. It's not like
Speaker 2: this is a normal thing.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: The ship that guy saw so as soon as he
Speaker 2: pulled into the driveway and onto the property, he promptly
Speaker 2: began working in the fields. And expecting James to come
Speaker 2: out and greet them and start working with them.
Speaker 1: Oh, he just went right to work. Look at that.
Speaker 2: However, that didn't happen. After a while, In fact, a
Speaker 2: couple hours, James never came out. At about nine am,
Speaker 2: Wildrew went up to the house, you know, thinking James
Speaker 2: slept in. He's gonna buggam or whatever, right and make
Speaker 2: fun of him. You know, you slept in, ha ha.
Speaker 2: The first thing he noticed was the family dog. The
Speaker 2: family dog was just very timid, very scared, not wagging
Speaker 2: its tail nothing. The second thing he noticed the mom
Speaker 2: the usual noise from the house, the hustle and bustle.
Speaker 2: It was strangely quiet, eerily quiet, definitely like this.
Speaker 1: Just silence.
Speaker 2: Gave me chills. Damn, we're good, anyways, I say, anyways
Speaker 2: a lot, don't I do?
Speaker 1: I I don't know.
Speaker 2: Anyways. So he approached the house and he went inside,
Speaker 2: and immediately he saw James laying on the floor covered
Speaker 2: in blood.
Speaker 1: Dang.
Speaker 2: Quickly he drove off right away to go call for help.
Speaker 2: And he had to travel six kilometers actually to do so,
Speaker 2: to go to the closest telephone post. Okay, so you
Speaker 2: can call police. Yeah, immediately RCMP came to the scene,
Speaker 2: and the first thing was, you know, a little survivor,
Speaker 2: four year old Phyllis. She went to go be taken
Speaker 2: care of by her uncle who lived nearby Only Lake
Speaker 2: and I think it was like five kilometers away or
Speaker 2: something like that. And then once she was safe, the
Speaker 2: investigation immediately immediately began.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I feel bad for her.
Speaker 2: Phyllis. Actually, she doesn't remember much, but she does remember
Speaker 2: when she's being carried out of the house that the
Speaker 2: officer carrying her was just crying. Really, she said that
Speaker 2: she remembers him crying as he was carrying Oh.
Speaker 1: That sad. They probably knew the family.
Speaker 2: Most likely. I mean it's a very tight knit community
Speaker 2: around here. Everyone knows everybody.
Speaker 1: That almost makes me want to cry. So she's probably
Speaker 1: still alive.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah she is. Oh wow, Yeah, she's alive. Huh.
Speaker 2: So multiple police dogs were brought in. Dozens of officers
Speaker 2: combed the scene, bushlines, the farm, They searched nearby houses.
Speaker 2: Search parties of up to two hundred and fifty people
Speaker 2: were ready to go on a moment's notice. As for clues,
Speaker 2: the main sources of evidence that was left behind that
Speaker 2: they had to go on. Were five twenty two caliber
Speaker 2: cartridge shells that were left behind.
Speaker 1: Oh I missed some, he.
Speaker 2: Missed some, and a couple bloody footprints that were on
Speaker 2: the kitchen floor.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so his foot his.
Speaker 2: Shoeprint shoeprints that did not match any of the shoes
Speaker 2: or any of the families. You know, fucked up, he
Speaker 2: fucked up. So the house, however, ho what okay? So
Speaker 2: the house, however, did give a small idea of what
Speaker 2: kind of person who potentially could have done this. That
Speaker 2: sentence was written weird when I first read, it didn't.
Speaker 1: Make sense that before.
Speaker 2: So the house wasn't ransacked, which means it's not like
Speaker 2: a robbery, right.
Speaker 1: Right, he tall, I can't even speak. Store seven bucks out.
Speaker 2: Of wallets, you know, and like a jar off the
Speaker 2: fridge or something right now.
Speaker 1: And he also stole some bullets or something to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the jar full of ammunition. So it was like,
Speaker 2: it's not ransacked. They weren't stealing you know, jewelry.
Speaker 1: Or anything like that.
Speaker 2: It was just a couple of dollars dollars out of wallets,
Speaker 2: that's it. Yeah, there is no signs of sexual assault,
Speaker 2: so that's not a motive. The Peterson's had no known enemies.
Speaker 2: Everyone in the area knows each other and is nice
Speaker 2: and friendly, and it seems like it was a single perpetrator.
Speaker 2: So they thought perhaps this was random and the killer
Speaker 2: just happened onto their farm.
Speaker 1: This was like from somewhere else or something. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what kind of person would commit that? What
Speaker 2: kind of individual would commit a random, gruesome act is
Speaker 2: the sort of question they were asking. Maybe someone who
Speaker 2: has a history of violence, or maybe a mental.
Speaker 1: Illness, mental health.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're already right on the trail of Victor.
Speaker 1: Dang, that didn't take long.
Speaker 2: Ah, not at all. I spelt Victor's name wrong here
Speaker 2: I put Vitter so Vitter. Victor lived approximately sixty five
Speaker 2: kilometers away from the Peterson's farm, Okay, I.
Speaker 1: Was going to ask at one point how far they
Speaker 1: were away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's it's another small community sixty five kilometers away.
Speaker 2: But with such a shocking case, you know, we're travel
Speaker 2: seriously fast. And Victor began to think he might actually
Speaker 2: be caught. I mean, we're talking about this, so clearly
Speaker 2: he did. But we'll get under that. Maybe our CNP
Speaker 2: would do like ballistic testing on his gun and they
Speaker 2: would find that way, and he actually went to go
Speaker 2: do some like he went to fire off like a
Speaker 2: major amount of shells in his gun to try and
Speaker 2: change the rifling inside his barrel. Because each barrel has
Speaker 2: basically a fingerprint, is how it is. There's a spiral
Speaker 2: carved inside the barrel to help the bullet fly like
Speaker 2: a football. Okay, and each spiral is slightly different. It's
Speaker 2: never going to be the same. They can carve it the.
Speaker 1: Sad they can. Actually, that's how they pinpoint.
Speaker 2: They can identify guns basically by the slight differences.
Speaker 1: Also, if you shoot it, the more it could change that.
Speaker 2: Well, he went he wanted to go shoot it off
Speaker 2: a couple hundred times so that bullets are rubbing along
Speaker 2: that so maybe it would change change right, Or maybe
Speaker 2: even file down the firing pin a little bit so
Speaker 2: that the pin mark, because it's a small hammer that
Speaker 2: hits the back of the cartridge to cause a little
Speaker 2: explosion that pushes the the bullet out. So he was
Speaker 2: gonna file the pin a little bit different shapes. When
Speaker 2: they match the cartridge shells, the pin looks different. He
Speaker 2: went to go do that, but his brother actually had
Speaker 2: taken his gun off to another farm, so he didn't
Speaker 2: even have his gun. He couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: Oh that is actually kind of smart, it is.
Speaker 2: I wonder if people actually do that like nowadays or anything.
Speaker 2: I don't think people these days are that smart. I
Speaker 2: think farm people like farm people are smart. They have ingenuity,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that's funny.
Speaker 2: Not that today's people are dumb. It's just it's a
Speaker 2: lot easier for us, so we don't tend to think.
Speaker 1: I feel like they don't have a such like or
Speaker 1: common sense isn't as common nowadays.
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, it's enginuity. It's street smarts versus smarts.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So so he went to go do that, but he couldn't.
Speaker 2: What actually happened was a neighbor actually gave him away.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, how four days after the massacre, a neighbor
Speaker 3: contacted the RCMP and told them about Victor and his
Speaker 3: recent release.
Speaker 2: From the hospital, which just so fit the type of
Speaker 2: person they were looking for. They quickly paid him a visit,
Speaker 2: and when they did, on his doorstep, just so happened
Speaker 2: to be a pair of boots that sat there, matching
Speaker 2: the bloody prints to the crime scene.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, he done, he done.
Speaker 2: He was quickly taken into custody and questioned, I mean
Speaker 2: rightfully so. And it didn't take him long to actually
Speaker 2: start confessing to it either.
Speaker 1: Oh really, hey, they broke.
Speaker 2: Him quick, only about ten minutes. Oh like real quick.
Speaker 1: Real quick. He confessed well because he didn't actually want
Speaker 1: to do it. I think he didn't.
Speaker 2: He didn't, and I mean I can't imagine he would
Speaker 2: have much mental strength with all the battles he's gone through. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So he confessed everything, the shooting of each family member,
Speaker 2: his twenty two caliber gun that he used that was
Speaker 2: later matched to the retrieved cartridges and bullets, the voices
Speaker 2: in his heads that told his head heads, the voices
Speaker 2: in his head that told him to do it. There
Speaker 2: we go. I got that sentence, So there you go.
Speaker 2: But Victor also confessed to another thing. He confessed he
Speaker 2: was done killing. He knew he wouldn't do it again.
Speaker 2: It was almost like it was over. Something had lifted
Speaker 2: from him and he was free of the urges to kill.
Speaker 1: Okay, which was probably like such a nice feeling.
Speaker 2: For him, probably, but I mean that was quite whoa.
Speaker 2: I just me all over again. Oh my god, that
Speaker 2: was quite the cost. Sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Face too, was like, you're almost like terrified.
Speaker 2: It was like I had like a voice crack and
Speaker 2: a frog in my throat at the same time. It
Speaker 2: was weird. Oh oh that was good.
Speaker 1: I wish that they could see your face.
Speaker 2: Hi, Welcome to the Krusty Berger. My bad guys. Sorry,
Speaker 2: that was okay? At what cost? Did you know? Have
Speaker 2: that relief? Relief fat for him? So yeah so. RCMP
Speaker 2: actually later confessed that Victor, if he had disposed of
Speaker 2: his boots and altered his rifle like he planned, most
Speaker 2: likely would have gotten away with the murder. Why how
Speaker 2: could they have pinned it to him if he didn't confess.
Speaker 2: If he didn't confess, didn't have his boots and didn't
Speaker 2: have the rifle to match, they had nothing else to
Speaker 2: to pin him to it.
Speaker 1: There's nothing huh interesting.
Speaker 2: And when they were actually taking him away, like the
Speaker 2: cops were actually pulling him away, what actually gave his
Speaker 2: boots away too was Victor was trying to like, oh,
Speaker 2: just give me one minut I'm just gonna just burn
Speaker 2: these old boots, sort of like he was trying to
Speaker 2: get rid of the boots there like then and there,
Speaker 2: and that's what caught the attention of the boots to
Speaker 2: the RCMP. Last minute, he tried to ditch the boots, but.
Speaker 1: It yeah, oh gosh, it's surprising that he didn't. It's
Speaker 1: earlier really.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean he had four days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what was he doing in those four days?
Speaker 2: One thing though, Victor did have to say, remember because
Speaker 2: I was saying how it's like almost like he had
Speaker 2: a cry for help before with that thing. Yeah, here's
Speaker 2: another quote from him. If I had had someone to
Speaker 2: talk to, I wouldn't have committed murder. It's a direct
Speaker 2: quote from Victory.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we had talked about that, which just my
Speaker 1: head almost hurt a little to me.
Speaker 2: Is definitely pointing to the hospital with only releasing him
Speaker 2: with in two months, like are you insane?
Speaker 1: Well, and it doesn't really sound like they helped him
Speaker 1: much there, like he needed like a counselor and stuff.
Speaker 2: And like, well, and he tried to talk about it
Speaker 2: and they're just like, no, it's in your head. And
Speaker 2: he realized that the more he talked about it, the
Speaker 2: longer he'd be there to avail.
Speaker 1: Like it's just is he still alive. Are we getting there?
Speaker 2: We're getting there.
Speaker 1: I'm getting there, okay. Sorry.
Speaker 2: So after this, when he was convicted, he was immediately
Speaker 2: placed in hospital and he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.
Speaker 2: He was found not guilty of his crimes by reason
Speaker 2: of insanity okay. In February of nineteen sixty eight. He
Speaker 2: was placed in custody of physicians, where he spent his
Speaker 2: time in an Ontario based institution until December two thousand
Speaker 2: and one, when he was granted supervised access to select
Speaker 2: towns in Ontario.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And the hospital was only required to inform the local
Speaker 2: police of Victor's police So there's only the police they
Speaker 2: had to talk to you, like, oh, by the way,
Speaker 2: he's going out today, That's all they had to do.
Speaker 2: This is very reminiscent of the story the beheading on
Speaker 2: the Greyhound bus.
Speaker 1: Well, he Victor didn't go and change his name. Well
Speaker 1: Victor for some reason, I feel worse for Victor.
Speaker 2: Victor were telling it from his perspective is probably why. Maybe,
Speaker 2: but Victor never really got released. It was like day passes, right,
Speaker 2: Victor got okay, So let me.
Speaker 1: Write that I need to say, like I still feel
Speaker 1: bad as shit for that other family. It's awful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what happened to them? Like whole So yeah, when
Speaker 2: he was he was granted supervised access to select towns,
Speaker 2: so it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Even oh okay and even never like a loan and stuff.
Speaker 2: No, so that did like stir up controversy, and I
Speaker 2: mean rightfully. So, yeah, we have this he did.
Speaker 1: He destroyed a family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have this mass murderer just the day passes one, two, three, four, five, Uh,
Speaker 2: a little more than that. We're going to get to
Speaker 2: the exact number and names here in a moment. So
Speaker 2: Victor did actually end up passing away in custody on
Speaker 2: May twenty first of two thousand and four. Okay, and
Speaker 2: the victims of the massacre are James Peterson, age forty seven.
Speaker 2: They all have the last name Peterson, so I'll just
Speaker 2: say the first names. So James forty seven, Evelyn forty two,
Speaker 2: Jeane seventeen, Mary thirteen, Dorothy eleven, Pearl nine, William five,
Speaker 2: Colin was two, and Larry was one. Holy shit, So
Speaker 2: a family of nine lost their lives that night.
Speaker 1: Okay, so like nine people lost their lives, but it
Speaker 1: was a family of ten.
Speaker 2: It was actually a family of eleven. The Peterson's oldest daughter,
Speaker 2: Kathy Peterson Kathy Peterson Hill, who had actually been married.
Speaker 2: She was about twenty at the time, and she was
Speaker 2: living in British Columbia, a small logging town. Apparently very
Speaker 2: well might have been Prince George. I didn't look it up.
Speaker 2: So she moved back to the Peterson farm after this
Speaker 2: incident to take custody of her youngest sister and take
Speaker 2: care of the farm.
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, so.
Speaker 2: That's where Phillis grew up. And that is the case
Speaker 2: of the Shell Lake massacre.
Speaker 1: I had no idea it was nine. That's insane.
Speaker 2: Nine family members. I'm losing my voice a little bit
Speaker 2: right now. I think you are, Yeah, getting a little
Speaker 2: bit raspy.
Speaker 1: You Okay, I'm good.
Speaker 2: I just need something to drink.
Speaker 1: You need some water, okay. Yeah. Honestly, just like when
Speaker 1: we were going through the case, I didn't I had
Speaker 1: no idea. I thought it was five or so.
Speaker 2: No, it's nine in total. And he just executed them
Speaker 2: all wow in the.
Speaker 1: Farmhouse nuts And did he ever like get better at
Speaker 1: all or no? Like I wonder like all his time
Speaker 1: that he spent in the facility, if he changed it
Speaker 1: all or how got the help he needed.
Speaker 2: This is such an in depth story, especially when it
Speaker 2: comes to like his mental state. I'm sure that there's
Speaker 2: some information on that out there. I just I dug
Speaker 2: so deep already I didn't get into the aftermath on
Speaker 2: his state.
Speaker 1: Well, it's good that he got because it's not the
Speaker 1: same as the Greyhound one because the Greyhound one, like
Speaker 1: was pretty much like a free man. He never really
Speaker 1: became a free man.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's for sure. But it's the part where
Speaker 2: it's similar in my perspective anyways, is he was granted
Speaker 2: these day passes where it's not really known to the public.
Speaker 1: Even yeah, that he's out and about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have this person who committed such a
Speaker 2: horrendous crime just you know, shopping next to year at Walmart.
Speaker 2: So it's like, oh, the the watermelons ripe, I don't know,
Speaker 2: want me to pop a twenty two caliber in it
Speaker 2: and see if it is like fun?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding, you could just be making small talk
Speaker 1: with the Yeah, mass murder in the grocery store.
Speaker 2: Holy shit. So that's where the similarities are. And I
Speaker 2: think the biggest issue lays with how hospitals really treat
Speaker 2: people and patients who have these disorders and issues, and.
Speaker 1: Because by the sounds of it, this case could have
Speaker 1: been prevented.
Speaker 2: Really Oh yeah, definitely, I definitely need water.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, why don't we just wrap this up because
Speaker 1: Ben has some survival something just.
Speaker 2: For context for everyone, because we are filming the first
Speaker 2: part and second part back to back, back to back,
Speaker 2: and all I had so far was a little glass
Speaker 2: of juice from from coal, which was delicious, but it
Speaker 2: was just it wasn't enough to keep my voice.
Speaker 1: You have water, but we didn't. But anyway, that was awesome.
Speaker 1: It's cool that it's a two parter.
Speaker 2: That's not awesome. That was a horrific case, would mean awesome.
Speaker 1: Okay, awesome that like you, you did an awesome job. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you, well done. Oh the case was ship yeah
Speaker 1: it was, but you presented it well. It was a
Speaker 1: good listen, well done, thank you, and now you can
Speaker 1: go and have some water. I also want a piece
Speaker 1: of pie.
Speaker 2: Oh we do have pie. We have pie, and then
Speaker 2: we can go to bed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go. Okay, thanks really listening and stay
Speaker 1: wicked