Speaker 1: This is Pod Popular Podcast for the People, The Great
Speaker 1: Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate.
Speaker 2: The Great Love Debate.
Speaker 1: It's a great Love to bab Hi again.
Speaker 2: Everyone, It's Brian how We welcome to the Great Love Debate,
Speaker 2: the world's number one dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: I am back here in the very fine studios of
Speaker 2: Pod Popular Podcasts for the People. I am the one
Speaker 2: in Palm Beach Gardens, which is very lovely. I don't
Speaker 2: come to this one a month enough, but tis the
Speaker 2: season here and it's it's it's game on in Palm
Speaker 2: Beach Gardens. At the beginning of the show, every time
Speaker 2: I do the show, I say the words dating and relationship.
Speaker 2: In some ways dating should rely to relationship. They do
Speaker 2: have their own sort of universes that they exist in.
Speaker 2: So one of the things that we hear, especially at
Speaker 2: our live shows, is that dating has gotten more difficult.
Speaker 2: And you could make that argument in some ways, there's
Speaker 2: some things that have made it difficult.
Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, dating is easier, and.
Speaker 2: A lot of ways dating is how it always was.
Speaker 2: Guy girl sniffing around each other, have a drink and
Speaker 2: hope to make out in the parking lot like. It
Speaker 2: really hasn't evolved a lot from that. The mechanism and
Speaker 2: how we get there was ever. Relationships, though, I believe,
Speaker 2: have gotten more difficult, and there's a lot of reasons
Speaker 2: for that, And because I am only semi competent at
Speaker 2: laying out those reasons, I brought in a couple of
Speaker 2: pros here today. You're going to help us a little
Speaker 2: bit with the dating side, but a lot of the
Speaker 2: relationship side, what we're doing right, what we're doing wrong,
Speaker 2: And a big part of this is about why things
Speaker 2: have changed to make relationships difficult. They are the hosts
Speaker 2: of the Slightly Saying podcast. I think they're mostly sane,
Speaker 2: and so the part that is not quite saying is
Speaker 2: the entertaining part. Here. They brought their own pillows to
Speaker 2: sit in the chair. It's very luxurious.
Speaker 1: Doctor Christy and doctor Laura. How are you two doctors
Speaker 1: in the house.
Speaker 3: Hello, Brian, how are you?
Speaker 4: Good morning, Brian. It's so good to be here.
Speaker 2: I've made this point before on this show, and I've
Speaker 2: heard you make this point before that this idea of
Speaker 2: trying to fall fall in love with somebody and make
Speaker 2: them your soulmate and spend fifty years happily ever after
Speaker 2: together is in the in the you know, sort of
Speaker 2: concept of time, like a blink of an eye. In
Speaker 2: terms of time, we're maybe two hundred, three hundred years
Speaker 2: into that.
Speaker 1: Life expectancy used to.
Speaker 2: Be, you know, thirty, you'd you'd meet, you'd farm, you'd breed,
Speaker 2: you'd die, and that was it. And then it I
Speaker 2: think it evolved into families. Swapping a guy or a
Speaker 2: girl for each other might have been a trade.
Speaker 1: We'll call it matchmaking in a way, but a little
Speaker 1: bit it was like a a it was a legal thing.
Speaker 2: And then somewhere on the line despite if you want
Speaker 2: to go back to you know, Anthony Klaypatrick and Romeo
Speaker 2: and Juliet and all those if you if you want
Speaker 2: to come into to now only in you know, the
Speaker 2: wedding vows were only written through or four hundred years ago.
Speaker 2: This idea of like we're going to meet, we're gonna
Speaker 2: fall in love, we're gonna and the world has changed tremendously.
Speaker 2: Life expectancy has changed. You're around with your kids a
Speaker 2: lot longer, financial responsibilities In the last twenty years, obviously,
Speaker 2: gender roles have shifted and all of that leads to
Speaker 2: communication breakdown, confidence breakdown, but sometimes in a breakdown of
Speaker 2: a relationship that might not have happened in sixteen twenty
Speaker 2: two that reasonable setup.
Speaker 4: Definitely, definitely yep.
Speaker 1: So why do you Let's let's start with the premise.
Speaker 2: The premise is, I think relationships are more difficult because
Speaker 2: life is more complicated than it used to be. You
Speaker 2: kind of knew what you had to do as the guy.
Speaker 2: You knew what you had to do as the girl.
Speaker 2: You're together for certain reasons, not that long, and it
Speaker 2: worked out very Rarely were two people together for sixty years,
Speaker 2: happy and monogamously.
Speaker 1: And now you involve all of the things.
Speaker 2: Even if we want to get into the last ten years,
Speaker 2: where you're talking about women working more outside of the
Speaker 2: house and then you have to deal with childcare and
Speaker 2: you have to do that, there's pressure and exhaustion and
Speaker 2: financial responsibilities and a lot of things that lead to fights, anger, resentment,
Speaker 2: lack of communication, all those things that I don't think
Speaker 2: bode well to making things last.
Speaker 1: So I think, well, I know this is your job.
Speaker 2: People coming to this all the time, and are you
Speaker 2: just like that's just the way it is, or're living
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four and you don't like it, go
Speaker 2: back to the fifteen hundreds.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Oh, I think that's a complicated.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 4: First, first of all, I can say full disclosure, I'm
Speaker 4: dating Christy is not.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm married. Yes.
Speaker 4: So there's the first hand knowledge and then there's the
Speaker 4: intellectual book knowledge. I think the intellectual book knowledge says
Speaker 4: one thing. But being out there in the dating world,
Speaker 4: I will say it's a shit show. It is. It is, absolutely,
Speaker 4: it has changed, not necessarily for the better.
Speaker 2: Is you were you were married, that was so you
Speaker 2: were out there in your when was your single time.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say how old you are now, but
Speaker 2: in your twenties were dating?
Speaker 3: I was dating?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was dating in my twenties.
Speaker 2: And now you're back out there post divorce. What is
Speaker 2: changed to you?
Speaker 4: First of all, expectations have changed, apps have changed, there's
Speaker 4: have changed everything. There is more confusion about who does what, yes,
Speaker 4: for sure, yes, who initiates the first contact, who does
Speaker 4: the calling? Listen and snapchat and all of those things
Speaker 4: have made it so much more complicated. We read into
Speaker 4: everything he left me undelivered, he doesn't like me.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe he's busy. We didn't used to have to.
Speaker 2: We didn't know even twenty years ago. That wasn't a
Speaker 2: thing that led.
Speaker 4: To my score like a snap score. Well, listen, he
Speaker 4: didn't answer me, but his snapscore is going up, which
Speaker 4: means he's snapping somebody else besides me.
Speaker 3: What the hell is a snap staying exactly stay married?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, but that he left me on.
Speaker 2: These were adding technology into this, adding an angst and
Speaker 2: worry over this.
Speaker 1: I agree with you on that the who does what?
Speaker 1: And whatever?
Speaker 2: I talk about this to death since the very first
Speaker 2: time we started this show. Is that the blurring of
Speaker 2: the traditional gender roles. Oh, is a wonderful thing in
Speaker 2: every aspect of society except for dating, because it has
Speaker 2: left two or three generations of people having to change
Speaker 2: the way they went about everything right in the middle
Speaker 2: of the ocean.
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's got a better.
Speaker 2: Chance to work if it's if it's still the way
Speaker 2: most people over thirty started doing this. He asked her out,
Speaker 2: he pays, he picks you up.
Speaker 1: I can't pick you up anymore.
Speaker 4: You might be a serial killer.
Speaker 1: We were serial killers in the nineties, and you let
Speaker 1: us pick us up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just you didn't watch as much, like we
Speaker 3: couldn't google it and.
Speaker 2: You didn't watch Date Live. Right, But you bring that up.
Speaker 2: You know more now about anybody you go out with,
Speaker 2: if you do your homework, than you ever did thirty
Speaker 2: years ago.
Speaker 4: So maybe I'm unsafe I don't google people.
Speaker 2: Well maybe, but thirty years ago he had a pen
Speaker 2: and a napkin at two o'clock in the morning, you
Speaker 2: took your number and you're like, you have to pick
Speaker 2: me up.
Speaker 1: You have to pick me up. It was like required.
Speaker 1: Now you're like, I don't.
Speaker 2: Want him to see where I live. Well, if he's
Speaker 2: a psycho, he's gonna find out where you live. And
Speaker 2: if he's a psycho, he's probably gonna hide it for
Speaker 2: five dates or thirty days or whatever. It's fear based dating,
Speaker 2: which I talked about a lot of my last podcast
Speaker 2: and got a ton of feedback on that. But it's
Speaker 2: about communication, commerce breakdown and you take these things into
Speaker 2: the relationships. Once you get into the relationships, I think
Speaker 2: then it's like.
Speaker 1: Who does this? Who does that?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: How do you split the ink? You know, two working people,
Speaker 1: we're gonna buy? How does this work? You know?
Speaker 2: I wonder very successful people who are very wealthy and
Speaker 2: they get together, like like Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck,
Speaker 2: how do they handle like just buying a piece of property,
Speaker 2: went to buy a house?
Speaker 1: Like I got this one? Like how does that conversation
Speaker 1: even go?
Speaker 2: Are they both donating into a third party trust which
Speaker 2: they probably are a bunch of lawyers and stuff. That's
Speaker 2: not the most romantic way to do things either.
Speaker 4: Neither is a prenup. But all the time no.
Speaker 3: But I think what you're talking about is we do
Speaker 3: well with My personal opinion is we do well with
Speaker 3: clean lines, meaning this is you, this is that, this
Speaker 3: is your role as housewife. I'm not trying to say clearly,
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean I was trained to be a
Speaker 3: professional and not be a house wife or a house mom.
Speaker 3: But I agree with you. It confused. It was the
Speaker 3: start of the confusion of Okay, if you work, and
Speaker 3: you work, who's now responsible for picking up the kids?
Speaker 3: Who takes the trash out? Do you pay for this?
Speaker 3: Do you pay for the mortgage? Do you pay for
Speaker 3: the car?
Speaker 2: And because say what you want And I'm not a dad,
Speaker 2: so I'm just guessing at this. It's always going to
Speaker 2: be way harder on the mom. It is, yes, the
Speaker 2: mom has a shoulders a big part of the logistical
Speaker 2: and emotional burden of the children they is. And sometimes
Speaker 2: then that negatively affects the wildly insecure husband man because
Speaker 2: he's not getting the attention that he needs from her,
Speaker 2: because she's just exhausted from chasing around four year old
Speaker 2: all day long. And that is something that you're not
Speaker 2: prepared for because back when you were just dating, it
Speaker 2: was mostly about fun because the stakes were lower.
Speaker 1: We laughed, and we went on this trip and we got.
Speaker 2: Drunk, and we had looked at our look at our
Speaker 2: matching Halloween costumes and whatever. And then you morph into
Speaker 2: this different phase of life which really has nothing to
Speaker 2: do with what got you together in the first place.
Speaker 4: I was just having this conversation with a couple yesterday.
Speaker 4: I think the danger to any relationship is complacency. You
Speaker 4: gotta if you started off as friends, right, you should
Speaker 4: be treating each other as friends throughout the course of
Speaker 4: the relationship. So it shouldn't be your job as garbage.
Speaker 4: My job is garbage. If you walk past the garbage,
Speaker 4: take the freaking garbage out. Just take it out.
Speaker 3: But again, the expectations. The expectations are confusing to people,
Speaker 3: especially if you were raised in a household that was
Speaker 3: traditional and now your own household is not necessarily quote
Speaker 3: unquote traditional. You're really confused.
Speaker 2: My mother was not allowed to work, and I think
Speaker 2: she and that too. I think she's like, I could
Speaker 2: have had a second act in life. My father was like, no,
Speaker 2: this is your role very traditional. I saw, you know
Speaker 2: the prose of that. As a son, you had your
Speaker 2: mother around, do whatever you wanted. But there's also part
Speaker 2: of her wasn't living her full life. And you get
Speaker 2: together at twenty thirty forty, And I've said this a
Speaker 2: million times, like I didn't know who I.
Speaker 1: Was at thirty.
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to know who you are, and I was supposed.
Speaker 1: To commit that you're going to grow along with me.
Speaker 2: I was at this event last night and this woman,
Speaker 2: she was in her fifties, and she was complaining about dating,
Speaker 2: and she's like, you need to accept me.
Speaker 1: As I am. I'm like, why are you as you? Are?
Speaker 1: You just finished? Are you? Like locked? Nothing is going
Speaker 1: to change about you.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. That's bs when someone say when.
Speaker 2: Somebody says that that's your excuse, they didn't appreciate me
Speaker 2: for who I am.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't take me as I am.
Speaker 2: You should every date encounter, neew relationship should change you,
Speaker 2: hopefully positively, that you're taking something forward and you're not
Speaker 2: so set in your ways because all you know is
Speaker 2: what did not work out.
Speaker 4: This is like the angry female that is and the
Speaker 4: angry male, which is destroying dating. I have to just
Speaker 4: say it is destroying dating because you have people who
Speaker 4: are coming in with that attitude which I'm rigid. Take
Speaker 4: me as I am.
Speaker 3: This is it.
Speaker 4: You don't like me, screw off. Sorry, you're not getting
Speaker 4: any dates.
Speaker 2: You're just not the Yeah, I agree, and this whole
Speaker 2: you know, the men are not perfect by handy means.
Speaker 2: Neither are the women, I agree, But there are I
Speaker 2: think more men out there trying to do the work,
Speaker 2: trying to be curious, trying to ask the questions, trying.
Speaker 1: To learn her than ever before.
Speaker 4: Out.
Speaker 3: No, well, look, I think because our roles have changed
Speaker 3: a lot, the room for growth is more on that side.
Speaker 3: So yeah, there's a little bit more effort being seen.
Speaker 1: You see couples, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she does. I'm the individual side are men.
Speaker 2: So you've been doing this you know, it's that's why
Speaker 2: the boyfriend girls and they come in. Are the men
Speaker 2: more amenable to coming in or they all seem like
Speaker 2: they're kicking and screaming like fifteen years ago, Like are
Speaker 2: they making the appointments?
Speaker 1: Like no, you tell me no, No, I've done that.
Speaker 1: I'm an involved man. I've made an appointment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've already said several things that show that you're evolved.
Speaker 4: I mean, even the fact that you recognize that children
Speaker 4: can put a big burden on.
Speaker 2: Right, But I didn't always And it's hard, especially people
Speaker 2: now they get divorced and they try and date again,
Speaker 2: and you've got two sets of bull's eyes with two
Speaker 2: sets of families and two sets of ex's and all that.
Speaker 2: That is a lot more complicated now. But I think
Speaker 2: you know, the rise of the independent woman is complicated
Speaker 2: because if you want to be empowered and take ownership
Speaker 2: of that, you cannot blame the men for every single thing.
Speaker 1: Not to date this podcast too much.
Speaker 2: I always want to not bring any news, but everything's
Speaker 2: got to be evergreen. So as we record this, it's
Speaker 2: the day after the twenty twenty four Oscar nominations came out. Okay,
Speaker 2: Barbie which I did a whole episode about about how
Speaker 2: I loved Barbie's Grave.
Speaker 1: It was very empowered.
Speaker 2: Whatever got by any reasonable standard, lauded by the Academy.
Speaker 2: It got eight nominations. And all I see is that
Speaker 2: Ryan Gosling got nominated and Margot Robbie did not, and
Speaker 2: Greta Gerwig just not did not. First of all, Greta
Speaker 2: Gurry got three nominations, you just didn't get nominated in
Speaker 2: Director Director. Yeah, and Margot Robbie got nominated as producer
Speaker 2: for Best Picture. If I said to Margot Robbie, what
Speaker 2: do you want to be the business woman who put
Speaker 2: this billion dollar movie together?
Speaker 1: Or you want to.
Speaker 2: Acting nomination, which you've already got before. And Greta Gerwig
Speaker 2: also already gotten a nomination before as a director, she
Speaker 2: got for Lady Bird, like five years ago. You can't
Speaker 2: tell me that it was. It's suddenly more sexist now
Speaker 2: than two tenty seventeen. It's like, didn't we learn anything
Speaker 2: from Barbie? And so this ramps up a dialogue that
Speaker 2: is unnecessary. You know, it's unnecessary. There's a million real
Speaker 2: examples of the patriarchy and how women are at trade Fairwebber.
Speaker 2: This is not one of them, but because it's low
Speaker 2: hanging fruit and it's pop culture, and it seems very
Speaker 2: aplus B equal C.
Speaker 1: This dialogue is all over the internet.
Speaker 3: Well, I think also you bring in the fact that
Speaker 3: media sometimes we can be sheeps. So we see something
Speaker 3: out that gets posted out there, and they're a business,
Speaker 3: let's post it out there because they're trying to get
Speaker 3: our attention.
Speaker 2: Easy and they do.
Speaker 1: And I noticed, yeah, and.
Speaker 3: We buy into that, and we buy into that very easily.
Speaker 3: And I think that's also some of where it comes from,
Speaker 3: is the misunderstanding of we see it. You know again,
Speaker 3: I'm on the individual therapy side, she's on the family
Speaker 3: and couple side of it. What's happening in reality is
Speaker 3: not what you're seeing in the media, And because people
Speaker 3: have constant access to whatever form of media they want,
Speaker 3: there's information that's being fed about dating and relationships and
Speaker 3: marriage that might not necessarily be true of what's happening
Speaker 3: in reality.
Speaker 4: That's right, all right.
Speaker 2: I want to dive deeper into the therapy side of
Speaker 2: this and the questions that the people are asking. I
Speaker 2: take a quick break, because we have to pay for
Speaker 2: things like therapy around here with.
Speaker 1: Doctor Christy and doctor Laura.
Speaker 2: They are from Slight saying they're a little more than that.
Speaker 2: But we will be back right after this, and I
Speaker 2: know you're gonna hate this question.
Speaker 1: We are back.
Speaker 2: What's the number one thing you deal with? Most of
Speaker 2: the women mostly men fifty to fifty both. If it's
Speaker 2: about a relationship thing, the number one issue.
Speaker 3: Is what expectations and resentment, also lack of spontaneity. And
Speaker 3: I don't think it's necessarily their fault. I think it's
Speaker 3: about the fact that, like you're saying, we have more responsibilities,
Speaker 3: we're scheduled more, and it takes the fun out of stuff.
Speaker 3: We mentioned it in one of our shows, where you
Speaker 3: can't just throw the kids somewhere quickly and say, okay,
Speaker 3: let's go, let's book a flight, will be gone for
Speaker 3: a week. You could do that. You could stay up
Speaker 3: late and drink if you're allowed to do you know,
Speaker 3: if that's okay. Now it's all gosh, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe I should stop because I got to be up.
Speaker 3: The kids are going to be up at six. I
Speaker 3: don't want to feel that way. And it really does
Speaker 3: just put so much pressure on.
Speaker 1: It kills the spark.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fitting it in okay, so we can be spontaneous
Speaker 3: Saturday from a to that's not fun. No, So that's
Speaker 3: what I see on the individual side.
Speaker 2: Really, he can't do this, and yeah, life kills the spark.
Speaker 2: Spark kills. No spark kills the spontaneity. And then spontaneity
Speaker 2: is about excitement. And if the excitement is out of
Speaker 2: your relationship and it becomes routine, that's when I think
Speaker 2: you have to fall back on more conversations that are
Speaker 2: sometimes difficult. But you know, I heard you say on
Speaker 2: one of your podcasts that you should over communicate, ask
Speaker 2: one too many questions versus one too few. Explain that.
Speaker 4: Well, what I'm seeing with couples who have been together
Speaker 4: for a long time, especially is they make too many assumptions.
Speaker 4: They think they know the person, they think they know
Speaker 4: what the reaction is going to be.
Speaker 1: What.
Speaker 4: But but really, if you've been with someone for twenty years,
Speaker 4: you guys have grown right, Yeah, hopefully right, And so
Speaker 4: you can't make an assumption about Oh, I see that
Speaker 4: expression on his face means whatever, I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 4: he's thinking about something about work. Why don't you ask
Speaker 4: him like ask instead of making an assumption that you
Speaker 4: then text him something nasty and now we're often running.
Speaker 2: And you're right, But the challenge is asking in a
Speaker 2: way that isn't accusatory or does not make him feel
Speaker 2: accused us.
Speaker 4: And never use the word why. That is my rule.
Speaker 4: Never use the word why.
Speaker 2: What's the Oh that's good on the king of why?
Speaker 2: What is this substitute?
Speaker 4: If I'm how, I'm curious about how come I'm wondering?
Speaker 4: I notice like why a trigger word for couples. Why
Speaker 4: is a trigger word for everybody. If I set to you, Brian,
Speaker 4: why'd you do that? It almost sounds like it's mom
Speaker 4: getting ready to scold.
Speaker 1: I do that as a boss.
Speaker 2: I do that all the time. I don't want to
Speaker 2: know what happened. I want to know why it happened.
Speaker 2: People don't react well to why. I've tried to eliminate it,
Speaker 2: but that's everything. But if you do it in a
Speaker 2: couple that it's a cue story because a lot of
Speaker 2: times people don't speak up at all until it's too serious.
Speaker 2: If you're constantly trying to learn your partner and I
Speaker 2: drive my partner's crazy by you know, what was your
Speaker 2: favorite subject in school in fourth grade? And they're like,
Speaker 2: what do you care? And I'm like, I just feel
Speaker 2: I love that I do. I want to know where
Speaker 2: you were in different aspects of life. I want to
Speaker 2: how you change. I want to like, I don't think
Speaker 2: you ever stopped learning your partner. Some people just feel
Speaker 2: either that's a part of me that I don't think about,
Speaker 2: it is gone, or it's too intrusive and I don't
Speaker 2: really understand that.
Speaker 4: I love that you said that because I just had
Speaker 4: someone bring that up. They're involved in a relationship with
Speaker 4: a person's like, let's just live in the present. I
Speaker 4: don't want to know anything about you. It may taint
Speaker 4: my opinion of you. And I'm thinking, really like that
Speaker 4: is like big red flag, Like I want to know
Speaker 4: everything about a person, know how you've grown, know where
Speaker 4: you're at now, Like how can you close off a
Speaker 4: whole wall of getting to know someone that shuts down
Speaker 4: your intimacy right there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really am Like can we go see your
Speaker 2: high school or your hometown or where you grow up?
Speaker 1: I'm just curious. I think a lot of it now.
Speaker 1: If you have some dark memories, it's bad.
Speaker 2: That's He's pretty conversation, Like I would rather not but
Speaker 2: if their response is more like, why what do you care?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, because I it helps me understand everything
Speaker 2: about you and sometimes you know, a lot of big
Speaker 2: part of us is are locked in seven year old
Speaker 2: Brian or whatever, and be able to comprehend that a
Speaker 2: little might let me understand you more.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I also think too, we've become way more
Speaker 3: sensitive to things. We get offense, you know, offended by
Speaker 3: things too easily. Over correction, Yeah, yes, thank you. It
Speaker 3: went from here to there. I hope it goes to
Speaker 3: the middle sometime soon, because that's also where the like
Speaker 3: you brought up, the over communication, that's where I find
Speaker 3: people are hesitant to communicate because they don't want to
Speaker 3: say anything that's going to piss off the partner. And
Speaker 3: I said it before, especially if you care about the relationship.
Speaker 2: So you just are like, well, and I always say, like,
Speaker 2: be happy that they asked the question. Because they ask
Speaker 2: the question, they still care. If they don't ask the
Speaker 2: questions anymore, why did you do this?
Speaker 1: Whatever?
Speaker 2: Like they're checked out and they're gone, and then you're
Speaker 2: in no man's land. So if they're constantly asking questions again,
Speaker 2: not in an accusatory fashion, not like where were you
Speaker 2: last night? Who were you with? Like stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But if they're always trying to learn you your behavior,
Speaker 2: the relationship, what can I do? You know, how can
Speaker 2: I make your day better? That's that's something that I'd
Speaker 2: never said in my life to Like five years ago,
Speaker 2: I heard somebody say it one of our live shows,
Speaker 2: like like, oh, that's good. That is what can I
Speaker 2: do to improve your What can I do for you?
Speaker 1: Right now? I'm like, that's top notch. I need to
Speaker 1: use that.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't think it, And most of the
Speaker 2: time you're gonna get nothing like I'm good, nothing but
Speaker 2: the act of asking and trying because a lot of times,
Speaker 2: and you guys know that once it gets to the
Speaker 2: point where they got to call you and I know
Speaker 2: you can, you're not gonna want This is not good
Speaker 2: for business, it's too late. But there's a lot of
Speaker 2: times when you got to call earlier, you a call
Speaker 2: before you hate them.
Speaker 4: And it's not even hate, because with hate there's still passion.
Speaker 4: Agree with apathy.
Speaker 1: Apathy?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, apathy. If someone doesn't even care, if they've
Speaker 4: totally checked out, that's how you know it's over.
Speaker 1: Can you tell it's over before they can tell it's over,
Speaker 1: You're not. That's not your job.
Speaker 4: No, I can tell it's over. I can tell it's over.
Speaker 1: But then they won't come back if you say it.
Speaker 4: But sometimes I've said to them, look, guys, I think
Speaker 4: it's over. Like you're both communicating that you don't even
Speaker 4: love each other. It's over.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's one of the things. If there is
Speaker 3: a genuine fundamental foundation of love, I've seen people through
Speaker 3: the years go through some shit and evolve and come
Speaker 3: out stronger because they do genuinely love that person.
Speaker 2: And a question that probably comes up with you, guys,
Speaker 2: is well, I don't understand how they could do or
Speaker 2: say that if they love me and they say they
Speaker 2: love me, and those aren't necessarily related things, right, not.
Speaker 3: Equivalent, No, not at all. And I always say the
Speaker 3: opposite of love is hurt, you know, if you love
Speaker 3: someone that much. Unfortunately we do, like it or not,
Speaker 3: we hurt the people that are closest to us. We
Speaker 3: hurt our loved ones they see us raw, whether.
Speaker 4: That's that vulnerability stuff which I.
Speaker 3: Hate that you know me like, I'm no, you know,
Speaker 3: But that's the part where it's so hard for people
Speaker 3: to if you really really love that person to be
Speaker 3: vulnerable to them hurting you and they don't even meet.
Speaker 3: We're all human beings, we've been through shit. We're not perfect.
Speaker 3: We're not perfect, and so it's just a part of
Speaker 3: the process and you have to really forgive one another
Speaker 3: and work through it because it's just it's just a there.
Speaker 3: In my opinion, there's not going to be a relationship
Speaker 3: at least from what I've seen, where it's easy. Sometimes
Speaker 3: people say, if the relationship is easy, that's the one
Speaker 3: that's meant to be. I don't believe that. I don't
Speaker 3: know what your opinion is on it. It's that easy.
Speaker 3: You're not communicating, and that's what I'm saying. So you're
Speaker 3: going to go through some shit and you're going to
Speaker 3: hurt each other, right.
Speaker 2: And sometimes you know, I've been guilty of this too.
Speaker 2: We look to, you know, earlier generations and say like, oh,
Speaker 2: you guys been married eighty five years, what's the secret.
Speaker 1: And why are you so happy?
Speaker 2: It was a different time and maybe if they met now,
Speaker 2: she would be more career oriented. Social media might have
Speaker 2: anything could happen, and however they did things in nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty eight.
Speaker 1: Might not be relevant sixty five years later, you know.
Speaker 4: But eighty five years or however long they're marriage doesn't
Speaker 4: mean it's eighty five happy years. Some people are united
Speaker 4: in their misery, that true.
Speaker 2: Or they know how to navigate, or they know how
Speaker 2: to put a face on for the world. I saw
Speaker 2: a couple He's dead. I'll say it one time. I'll
Speaker 2: say now, Regisphilbin and his wife. They were sitting at
Speaker 2: a brunch and they're sitting at the same side of
Speaker 2: the table, and they're each reading a newspaper. And I
Speaker 2: was trying to figure out, do they hate each other
Speaker 2: so they're both married in their paper. Are they're married
Speaker 2: to their newspaper and not communicating, or are they so
Speaker 2: comfortable with each other that this was.
Speaker 1: Their sharing time doing the same thing, you know. And
Speaker 1: I was like, I couldn't ask them.
Speaker 2: And I was like, that's such a fascinating could go
Speaker 2: either way depending on how I was feeling to interpret that.
Speaker 2: My first instinct was bad, and then it was good,
Speaker 2: and then I'm like, huh, this is complicated.
Speaker 1: And so that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: We look at other people and other couples and other
Speaker 2: situations and you really have no idea versus what's going
Speaker 2: on beyond the snapshot.
Speaker 3: And that's what I would say too. I think we
Speaker 3: have to throw away other people's expectations of how our
Speaker 3: relationships should be. Friends are great when you're growing through
Speaker 3: stuff in your relationship, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: they're not the one living in your house and away
Speaker 3: they're typically going to have your back. You have to
Speaker 3: decide for yourself you're willing to deal with because you
Speaker 3: love that person and what you're not. I don't even
Speaker 3: think we can tell that that person. Once they give
Speaker 3: us that those parameters, we can say, well, here's what
Speaker 3: I recommend to be effective in that. Because we're seeing
Speaker 3: on also media the way other people are living their lives,
Speaker 3: we think that something is wrong with our relationship. I've
Speaker 3: seen it all. I've seen so many different variations of
Speaker 3: what a relationship could be. And as long as it's
Speaker 3: according to the parameters that you and your partner or
Speaker 3: partners or whatever you know, are setting forth, okay, screw
Speaker 3: what everybody else says about your relationship.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I'm always against these people who make
Speaker 2: these checklists. People make these checklists of like I need
Speaker 2: these five or six things that I'm good. There's a
Speaker 2: list of a thousand things that might make it not good.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a very short list of this is
Speaker 2: what I want. Well, I'm like, okay, what about these
Speaker 2: thousand things? Oh, I'm thought about those those are very
Speaker 2: specific or whatever. You have to just kind of ride
Speaker 2: a wave of a relationship and really trying to improve
Speaker 2: your confidence in what you're doing in this situation and
Speaker 2: your ability to communicate and your communication and your ability
Speaker 2: to stem it off before it gets too late, because
Speaker 2: once it gets to that whatever the word you want
Speaker 2: to use is no not anger. What was the word
Speaker 2: to use before epathy?
Speaker 1: Apathy?
Speaker 2: That I don't care anymore? And then you're just sharing
Speaker 2: space and you've gone not just from husband wife to
Speaker 2: mom and dad, you've gone from future divorces when the
Speaker 2: kids are out of the house. That's a tough way
Speaker 2: to spend two five, seven, ten years, you know.
Speaker 3: M Yes, And I think even when couples fight or partners,
Speaker 3: whatever term you want to it's your life. Use whatever
Speaker 3: term you want to do with your life. I don't
Speaker 3: really care Matthew mcconnie, and I can't remember is his
Speaker 3: wife's name Camilla?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: Camilla Elvis.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they came out and they said, look, it's we
Speaker 3: love each other. That means we're going to get hurt
Speaker 3: by each other. Sometimes people fight, Okay, as long as
Speaker 3: you just remember the quiet niceties that show the person
Speaker 3: you're still in the relationship together, even if you're in
Speaker 3: a moment where you may not like each other that much.
Speaker 3: Like he she always makes I think it's she always
Speaker 3: makes his tea. So even if they've had a fight
Speaker 3: in the morning, they still make sure that that's the
Speaker 3: thing and then they can go their own way. But
Speaker 3: that's at least the signal also for couples I find
Speaker 3: is okay, right, everybody sometimes has to go to their
Speaker 3: corners to stay effective. But still certain things you can
Speaker 3: say to show I'm still in this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you fundamentally. I did a whole episode
Speaker 2: about this last year. Me the five things that I need,
Speaker 2: they're all words from my partner I need, good morning,
Speaker 2: good night, I'm sorry, thank you, and I love you.
Speaker 2: And I talked about how what I needed on that
Speaker 2: list has changed over the last like ten years, like
Speaker 2: I love Houston, yoube first, because I didn't think I
Speaker 2: had enough of that in my life. And then a change.
Speaker 2: I need thank you, I need appreciation. Now I need
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, because that one takes the most. That's the
Speaker 2: most meaningful thing to me if somebody recognizes in some way.
Speaker 2: And these are very simple concepts, so it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: if I can't get the bare minimum of those things
Speaker 2: like good morning and good night, seem reasonable. But some
Speaker 2: people are like, I shouldn't have to change.
Speaker 1: My behavior because of your needs. Ouch yeah ouch.
Speaker 2: But some people are like that, like I'm not I'm
Speaker 2: get up late and I'm tired. I don't like to
Speaker 2: say good morning like whatever you you know, so you
Speaker 2: have to sort of marry that too, like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: is there another way that I can get whatever that
Speaker 2: word symbolized, Because it's not about the word, it's about
Speaker 2: the recognition of you're a part of my day in
Speaker 2: my life, and I'm going to say something to acknowledge that.
Speaker 2: Early on people will be like, well, that's wildly insecure
Speaker 2: of you, probably, but we're in a relationship, so you know,
Speaker 2: I got to look at it that way.
Speaker 1: Does that makes sense?
Speaker 3: And doctor, where do you think about differentiation of self
Speaker 3: in relationships?
Speaker 4: Because sometimes what's the couple, what's the individual.
Speaker 3: Exactly that you don't have to do everything together and
Speaker 3: if you don't, that doesn't mean something's wrong.
Speaker 1: Well, I heard you guys talk about this on a
Speaker 1: prior concast.
Speaker 2: But a lot of couples who are completely happy and
Speaker 2: madly in love just don't sleep in the same bed.
Speaker 3: The sleep divorsa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you got to sleep in the same bed,
Speaker 2: tough it out. But some very happy people are like, listen,
Speaker 2: he's not a good sleeper, she's not a good sleeper,
Speaker 2: or a different pattern. She kicks me, he snores whatever,
Speaker 2: and the other. You know, sixteen hours in the day,
Speaker 2: we're not sleeping, we're madly in love.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's got a good chance to work. As anything else.
Speaker 2: Prior generations, a lot of them slept in the same bed,
Speaker 2: in different beds, different rooms, different everything, right.
Speaker 4: I mean, I have my own opinion about that. I
Speaker 4: think what makes what I talked to couples about is Look,
Speaker 4: the one thing that makes you guys different from friends
Speaker 4: on the street is at your intimate together.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: You share a bed together, right, so, and never mind
Speaker 4: what's going on in the bed, do you share the
Speaker 4: bed together? Yeah? So, ending your day in starting your
Speaker 4: day with that person's already sets them apart. As you're my.
Speaker 2: Special person too, I completely agree with you.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are.
Speaker 2: Like, well, it's not that important to us, Okay. They
Speaker 2: then have to find another way to match the intimacy
Speaker 2: of eight hours hopefully a night in a you know,
Speaker 2: forty eight inch space together. Whether even if you're not
Speaker 2: cuddling or touching or whatever like that matters to me.
Speaker 2: That matters, But I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like if you put it. I think we also
Speaker 3: said too, if you make the priority throughout the rest
Speaker 3: of the day instead of putting all the weight on
Speaker 3: that time in the room because the kids are now
Speaker 3: asleep or whatever else is going on, you know, you
Speaker 3: finally put the work down and now can turn into
Speaker 3: personal life. It may or may not have less weight
Speaker 3: that sleeping concept, but again, it all goes for me,
Speaker 3: It all goes down to what weight that has on
Speaker 3: how much does that mean to their relationship?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I as we record this, we're pretty
Speaker 2: close to Valentine's Day and a lot of people ask
Speaker 2: my opinion on Valentine's Day, and I'm like, if you
Speaker 2: do the other three hundred and sixty four days pretty well,
Speaker 2: you probably don't need Valentine's Day, And then people say
Speaker 2: to me like, well, no, it's special to get something
Speaker 2: on Valentine's Say, I'm like, would you rather get flowers
Speaker 2: on February fourteenth or August second?
Speaker 1: Just because? And I'm like, I just want to.
Speaker 2: It's no reason here's the flowers or I'm supposed to
Speaker 2: do this.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people don't agree with that.
Speaker 2: They're like, you don't understand and the way I could
Speaker 2: be wrong and everybody's different, but I'm like, I'd rather
Speaker 2: do it because I want to, not because I'm supposed to.
Speaker 4: And that's where the communication piece comes in. But you know,
Speaker 4: what people forget and what I structure for people is
Speaker 4: that there's there's you, there's me, and then there's the
Speaker 4: relationship as its own entity. And so we have to
Speaker 4: care for that relationship as if it's like that third
Speaker 4: person in the relationship. If you're not coming up with
Speaker 4: ways to nurture that and grow that, your individual needs
Speaker 4: are to pull you guys apart.
Speaker 3: And like you said, one of the coolest things you
Speaker 3: did say on that episode was the two of your
Speaker 3: co CEOs, and that helps to say you're both important,
Speaker 3: you both hold weight.
Speaker 2: Right and you are you know, go head to the house.
Speaker 2: But being able to define the roles again. As we
Speaker 2: move into twenty four and beyond, things are a little
Speaker 2: more complicated, especially you have two working parents and as
Speaker 2: something as simple as like you know, who takes out
Speaker 2: the garbage should be him, but you.
Speaker 1: Know who to use the dishwasher should be the kids.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of things, but these are
Speaker 2: discussions that you have to. You know, there are still
Speaker 2: a lot of women today and not to judge relationships,
Speaker 2: who get an allowance and then they're like, I don't
Speaker 2: have access to the money. How do I even get divorced?
Speaker 2: How do I even go seek help? How do I
Speaker 2: even do anything with my two hundred dollars a week?
Speaker 2: You know that's disturbing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's still a thing.
Speaker 2: And I think if you established trust early on and
Speaker 2: communicate and then like this is important to me, you
Speaker 2: brought the prenup earlier, Like I would never make somebody
Speaker 2: easy for me to say I don't have one hundred
Speaker 2: million dollars, but sign up because I'm like, this is
Speaker 2: part of the gamble. I want to know that you
Speaker 2: to know that I'm all in and if this doesn't work,
Speaker 2: I crap out and this lose.
Speaker 1: Is that important? Again, I don't know a hundred million
Speaker 1: dollars and a bunch of lawyers.
Speaker 3: So No, it's true, like you're saying, there's financial stressors,
Speaker 3: kid stressors, work stressors, ime stressors, to time. There's not
Speaker 3: enough time, like we said actually in our recording earlier,
Speaker 3: and you're trying to manage all of that. In life,
Speaker 3: it's just hard. It's hard, and shit happens all the time,
Speaker 3: you know, Like I say, life is a four letter
Speaker 3: word and it's just hard.
Speaker 2: So the number one piece of advice or the thing
Speaker 2: you say most commonly to people who come see you,
Speaker 2: is there one thing that you're like almost everybody I
Speaker 2: have to tell them to remember to do this.
Speaker 1: Is there one thing? Or is that too vague?
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to let doctor lor go first because
Speaker 3: she's the expert in this stuff.
Speaker 4: Complacency, don't get complacent. Don't get complacent. As soon as
Speaker 4: you guys take advantage of each other, it's over.
Speaker 2: And how do you identify complacency?
Speaker 4: How do you Complacency is when you're not putting in
Speaker 4: the effort, when you are making the assumption that things
Speaker 4: are just going to roll along as they always do
Speaker 4: without making the effort to show your partner that they
Speaker 4: are special to you. They hold a different role than
Speaker 4: just the average Joe in Starbucks.
Speaker 2: So you have to take a regular sort of temperature
Speaker 2: of yourself like this is.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely, that's good. And stop with the tit for tat,
Speaker 4: stop keeping school.
Speaker 1: Well you do that work.
Speaker 2: I know it'll never work.
Speaker 3: I would say, just throw out the expectations that other
Speaker 3: people put on your relationship. It's your life. Live it
Speaker 3: according to your and your partner's terms, because anything works
Speaker 3: these days. And that's the other thing I say too,
Speaker 3: is great, fantastic. We hopefully you do have friends that
Speaker 3: you can share all the trials and tribulation of your
Speaker 3: relationships with. At the same time, you're the one that,
Speaker 3: again that's living in that house. You have to decide
Speaker 3: what's going to work for you and what's not going
Speaker 3: to work for you, because you're always going to find
Speaker 3: someone that's going to judge it. That's just the way
Speaker 3: the world is, where we can be very judgy about
Speaker 3: what we think. This couple's happy, that couple is married.
Speaker 3: I've also known people who live according to their own
Speaker 3: labels too, meaning you could use the term married and
Speaker 3: not legally be married. It's a mentality. It's not just
Speaker 3: a legal thing. It's a mentality thing too. And if
Speaker 3: you and your partner are okay with that, go with it.
Speaker 1: That's a good point.
Speaker 2: All right, you're married, you are dating. So we play
Speaker 2: something called worst date or first date. So you have
Speaker 2: to either give us and this could go back to
Speaker 2: the old days. To go back to now, either the
Speaker 2: worst date you've ever had or the best first date
Speaker 2: you've ever had.
Speaker 4: Your choice, Oh god, I have to do the worst person.
Speaker 3: That was the funner one, probable because there's.
Speaker 4: So many of them. There's a book coming out about it.
Speaker 4: My mother keeps saying, I need to write a book
Speaker 4: about this. Probably going out on a date with someone
Speaker 4: and him letting me know that he was using the
Speaker 4: date as a way to find out whether he was
Speaker 4: really bisexual or not.
Speaker 2: Oh no, like he wanted professional help he knew what
Speaker 2: you did, or he wanted to know if he was attracted.
Speaker 4: He wanted both a little bit of both.
Speaker 2: Like, okay, pressure on a girl, it's a lot of pressure.
Speaker 4: Yeah, look at Christy, she's like, holy hell, how would
Speaker 4: not handle that?
Speaker 3: No, it didn't look.
Speaker 1: Oh, I've never heard We've asked this hundreds of times.
Speaker 1: I've never heard that.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's that's a show stopped.
Speaker 2: And what was the and well, what was the outcome?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 4: The outcome was that he was bisexual, but not with me.
Speaker 4: Not with me?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, you're the best?
Speaker 1: Do you want to play? It's been too long since
Speaker 1: id It's the only.
Speaker 3: Thing I'm going to share is a funny story that uh,
Speaker 3: one of a client said a long time ago about
Speaker 3: the fact that you know, went on a date, went
Speaker 3: back to the house. He came in. She immediately said,
Speaker 3: are you guys going to take care? Are you going
Speaker 3: to take care of us? Meeting me and the meeting
Speaker 3: her and the dogs. And he was just like, okay,
Speaker 3: time to go. Yep, time to go. So that might
Speaker 3: not have been a successful date. You don't Maybe everybody
Speaker 3: just take your time, get you know, all right, it's okay.
Speaker 4: Breathe a little bit.
Speaker 1: This was fun.
Speaker 2: I feel saner and smarter. Tell everybody where they can
Speaker 2: find you and your podcast.
Speaker 4: All right, so we are the slightly same podcast on Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 4: wherever you download your podcast. We are on YouTube. Get
Speaker 4: all the visual of doctor Christy cracking up.
Speaker 3: I can't hold it together on sh it's really funny.
Speaker 4: So we are on YouTube and please email us at
Speaker 4: Slightly Same Podcast at gmail dot com for questions, comments,
Speaker 4: and overall good wishes.
Speaker 2: Yeah good, You guys are awesome as far as us
Speaker 2: as always, please like, share, follow, and review this podcast
Speaker 2: and review the Slightly Sane Podcast all this time later.
Speaker 2: Your reviews mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem. Shoot
Speaker 2: us an email Great Loovedebate at gmail dot com for
Speaker 2: question thoughts, concerns, breakup stories, or things you want me
Speaker 2: to pass along to the good doctors because, as always
Speaker 2: at the Great Love Debate, we never stop making love.
Speaker 1: See you next time The Great Love Debate. It's a
Speaker 1: Great Love debate.
Speaker 2: De Great Love Debate.
Speaker 3: It's a Great Love Debate.