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We're prohibited to my 23 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:05.200 long eighteen plus terms and conditioned plice Let's host Radio. 24 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.879 You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking 25 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:18.000 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 26 00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:25.359 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 27 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:29.079 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 28 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:33.719 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 29 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:36.560 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 30 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:48.519 Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 31 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.200 program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime 32 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.319 History and the authors that have written about them. A 33 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.319 week after my interview with Dan Fanning discussing her book 34 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:01.840 Mummy's Little Girl before the Casey Anthony murder trial had commenced. 35 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.239 It is very rare to have a book published before 36 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:07.439 a trial has taken place, and it seemed to Diane 37 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:10.240 and myself certain that Casey Anthony would be convicted of 38 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:14.319 murdering Kayley. Now that the verdict is in and Casey acquitted, 39 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:17.319 Diane will join me again to discuss the incredible case 40 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:20.439 and give us her analysis of the entire trial. So 41 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:23.439 my special guest this evening is Diane Fanning. The Casey 42 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:29.560 Anthony murder trial Analysis and we will have Diane on 43 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:42.360 right now. Hello Dan, Hello Diane, Hello Diane. 44 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:45.439 Hello Dan. Can you can't hear me? 45 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:50.159 Yes, I can. I've just connected with you. So welcome 46 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:52.759 back to the Welcome back to the program, and thank 47 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:56.360 you very much screen this interview. It's going to be ga, 48 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:02.280 thank you very much. Last week, as I had mentioned 49 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:06.639 in my email, I replayed our interview, which was quite 50 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:10.520 interesting given the verdict about your book Mommy's Little Girl, 51 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:13.560 about the Casey Anthony case, and like I mentioned in 52 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:18.599 the introduction, it is fairly unusual or quite rare to 53 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:22.120 have a book written before a trial has been concluded. 54 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:27.120 And when I reviewed the interview, I found it very interesting. 55 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:30.639 We went on both of us. We were certain that 56 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:34.120 Casey Anthony would be convicted, and now the verdict is 57 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:38.680 in and she has been acquitted. So I've a lot 58 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:40.800 of fans of the program asked, why don't you have 59 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:43.680 Diane Fanning on again and let's talk about the case 60 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:48.960 once again. So here we are, and so we can 61 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:52.639 give us the analysis of the case. We won't go 62 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:56.680 into reviewing too much of because unless someone has left 63 00:03:56.719 --> 00:03:59.199 the planet for the last little while, they have heard 64 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:04.240 in great detail about the verdict and her acquittal. Now, 65 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:10.159 just let us know, did you attend the trial yourself personally? 66 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.800 No, I watched the trial online or on TV every. 67 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:23.360 Day right now for our audience, and I didn't follow 68 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:26.160 it so much. I got sort of a review of 69 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:29.600 it each day. There was a couple news or a 70 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.240 couple sites that sent me reviews of what had happened 71 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:34.920 at the trial each day, so I read most of 72 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:39.040 those for our audience. Tell us, I think, because of 73 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:43.199 course this is very important. Tell us about Jose Biaz 74 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:52.000 and Cheney Mason. Tell us about the legal team first off. 75 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:56.480 For Casey Anthony, tell us who those people were, and 76 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.360 just give us a little bit of background, because obviously 77 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:02.240 she had a good defense team. 78 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:10.040 Well, Chady Mason was very experienced, and he had a 79 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:14.720 good reputation as a defense attorney for people safe and 80 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:20.879 criminal charges prior to this case. He didn't play the 81 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:26.879 primary role though during the trial. He did some of 82 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:31.800 the closing argument and he did do some of the questioning. 83 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:36.680 But even though he was the most experienced one, he 84 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.240 was not the one to do it. It was jose Bias, who, 85 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:44.160 after graduating from law school, spent years trying to pass 86 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:48.879 the bar and ran two of the Kini businesses into 87 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:54.639 the ground while he was trying to become practicing attorney, 88 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:58.800 and he's been practicing for about three years when he 89 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:02.920 took One Anthony as a client in two thousand and eight. 90 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:08.720 And I really thought all throughout the trial that he 91 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:15.839 did a poor job in cross examining witnesses. I thought 92 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:20.399 he wasn't much better in his direct questioning either. He 93 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:25.240 seemed to get suffused at times, and he let information 94 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:28.480 in that you wondered why he even asked the question, 95 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.279 Like he asked his scientists, well, did you find any 96 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:37.759 evidence of marijuana in the air? And they said yes. Now, 97 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:42.120 why he wanted to portray his client as someone who 98 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.120 used an illegal substance, I'm not sure. I mean, that 99 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:49.720 really did not make a whole lot of sense. Another 100 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:54.000 blunder he made was a judge had ruled that George 101 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:58.800 Anthony's suicide note would not be admitted as evidence, but 102 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:04.560 then uh Bias mocked the grief of George Anthony so 103 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:08.839 much that the judge overturned his own decision and decided 104 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.639 to admit it to evidence. And it was a very really, 105 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:15.959 a very moving expression of the emotion he was going 106 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.759 through at the time, so I, you know, I thought 107 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:24.160 that that really would nail the verdict. But unfortunately, it 108 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:29.720 seems what had happened is that Jose Bias in his 109 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:38.199 opening statements, claimed that he would offer evidence to prove that, uh, 110 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:43.439 that Kaylee actually was victim of an accidental drowning, and 111 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:48.920 that George Anthony was the one who disposed of the body, 112 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:53.920 and that the utility worker Roy Kronk, who found the 113 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:58.800 body actually had found it much earlier, taken possession of 114 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:01.680 the body and put it in the spot where he 115 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:06.800 found it. And to make matters worse, on top of that, 116 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:13.120 he said that Lee Anthony and George Anthony had incestuous 117 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:18.000 relations with Casey Anthony, and he was very graphic about 118 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:22.000 what went on between George and Casey. And he said 119 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:26.279 all these things to be proven at trials. Not one 120 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:30.920 word of what he said was proven at trial. And 121 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:33.279 it got down to the only way he could have 122 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:38.360 proven it was to put Casey on the witness stand 123 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:43.159 to deliver the corroborating testimony, and he never did that. 124 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:48.080 In most cases, when something like that happens, the jury 125 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:52.120 will hold that against the attorney that made the false 126 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:55.679 promises in the first place. But instead of doing that, 127 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:59.600 this jury that the jurors who have spoken said, well, 128 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:04.440 we were very suspicious of George and so we couldn't 129 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:06.320 be sure if he had something to do with it 130 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:09.480 or not. Now that's really bizarre because there was no 131 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.639 evidence connecting George to the murder at all. 132 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:17.039 Yeah, and for what I didn't know beforehand was that 133 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:20.639 George Anthony was a former police officer. 134 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:25.000 Yes, when he lived in Ohio, he worked for the 135 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:29.799 Sheriff's department up there, and he actually liked doing that work, 136 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:34.200 and Cindy there wanted him to make more money and 137 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:36.840 encouraged him to get out of that job. 138 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:43.039 So the defense opened with the allegation of Casey being 139 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:48.559 sexually abused and then put forth the theory with again 140 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:52.360 without providing any foundation to this, that there was some 141 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.639 sort of accident in a pool and then the father 142 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:59.519 had something to do. So in your mind, once you 143 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:04.080 heard that that the early statements and the strategy that 144 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:09.639 Biez was putting forth, you thought, jes this really isn't 145 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:13.200 going to work out for the defense With this kind 146 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:17.759 of convoluted and very strange sort of strategy to begin 147 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:18.559 the trial. 148 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:21.320 The only way I thought it could have worked was 149 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.919 if they put Casey on the stand, which seemed highly 150 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:28.519 unlikely because she had a whole lot of vulnerability because 151 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.279 of all the lies she told. And in the end 152 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.879 she was convicted of lying to law enforcement. But you know, 153 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:39.720 I do not think the jury really understood what they 154 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:43.799 were doing. And to me, the thing that indicates it 155 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:46.360 the most is the fact that they did not find 156 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:50.080 her guilty of the child abuse charge. Now, I think 157 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:55.360 if you asked any mother out there, if you knew 158 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.879 that a child something bad had happened to a child, 159 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.360 or that a child was missing for thirty one days, 160 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.200 would you called and you didn't report it or say 161 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:09.559 anything to anybody? Would you call that child abuse? I 162 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:14.679 think every single mother would say yes, right. So to me, 163 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:19.519 that was so obvious, and the defense even admitted that 164 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:24.679 she did that, and yet they didn't convict her on that. 165 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.639 I mean, one of the juries even said, well, we 166 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:32.759 could not judge her based on her behavior. Well, yes 167 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:36.879 you can. That's what circumstantial evidence is about in a 168 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:41.159 lot of cases. I mean, murderers do not send out 169 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:45.879 invitations to the climinet going to commit so often you 170 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.279 don't have anybody that sees the actual act, You can 171 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:54.519 only judge that the act happened by how the perpetrator 172 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:59.000 behaves before and afterwards. 173 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:03.320 Now, the the presiding judge was Judge Belvin Perry, so 174 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:08.480 let's talk about his performance during this as well, and 175 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:12.519 also the prosecution, because there's three parties involved in this. 176 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:16.639 So tell us what your impression was of the prosecution 177 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:21.919 and their strategy and their conduct. Will say, get near 178 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:24.159 the beginning of the trial, what did you think of 179 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:26.840 the prosecution and what they put forth in their early 180 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:32.559 statements and their choice of witnesses and just how they 181 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.360 started the trial. What did you think in terms of 182 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:38.960 were you confident that the prosecution was good and was 183 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:41.919 handling this appropriately well? 184 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.799 For starters, Dan, I got so many emails from people 185 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:51.639 that said, it sounds like the prosecution is using your 186 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:54.480 book as the outline for the presentation of their case. 187 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:57.799 So based on that, it would be difficult for me 188 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.759 to criticize how they laid out their case. I thought 189 00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:04.639 they did excellent job. And when it came to time 190 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:08.440 for the defense side of the case and they got 191 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:13.399 to cross examined, I think that Jeff Ashton did textbook 192 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.840 cross examination I mean, you could teach people how to 193 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:19.240 cross examined by the way he did it. He took 194 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.960 witnesses for the defense who started out setting one thing 195 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.080 and turned them around till they were agreeing with him. 196 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:31.879 You rarely see that in a courtroom. That was extraordinary 197 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:37.279 work by the prosecution. Perhaps, if I could criticize anything 198 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:41.720 they did, I think maybe they should have put on 199 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:47.120 more rebuttal witnesses. But I think that probably, like me, 200 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:53.840 they thought the allegations, the unproven allegations by Bias, were 201 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:58.279 not anything to even worry about, because Bias presented no 202 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:04.120 evidence to support them, and so because of that, they 203 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:08.360 didn't put on rebuttal witnesses to cameract that because technically 204 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.480 what a lawyer says in an opening statement on either 205 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:14.720 side is not evidence, and it is not supposed to 206 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:18.879 be considered evidence by the jury. But this jury seemed 207 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:23.759 to do that. And in my mind, watching a lot 208 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:26.000 of other trials and the length of time it takes, 209 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:31.000 they didn't spend enough time reviewing documents, and one of 210 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:33.879 the jurors in fact, said, we didn't think we needed 211 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:38.799 to review the documents. Well, that's the documents are as 212 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:41.960 much a part of the evidence in the case as 213 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.440 things that come out of people's mouths in this trial, 214 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:48.200 and they did not give enough time to go through 215 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:53.240 and do that. And you know, I just don't understand 216 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.519 what they were thinking. And there's something else too that 217 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:00.000 really bothers me, because all the jurors who have spoken 218 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:04.759 couldn't have said that there was not one person on 219 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:10.879 that jury who thought she was innocent. Now, you know, 220 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.519 I'm a strong believer in civil disobedience, and in this case, 221 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:19.080 what that means to me is if I do not 222 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:22.639 think someone is innocent, and I think they are culpable 223 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:25.639 for the crime, and if I think that put the 224 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.559 prosecution didn't prove it, but still believe that person is guilty, 225 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:31.799 I'm going to hang that jury. I'm not going to 226 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.480 let someone walk away on a murder charge just because 227 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.600 something else should have been done in the courtroom. I'm 228 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:41.840 going to give them another chance. And yet that seems 229 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:44.720 to be what the jury was thinking, and that no 230 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.240 one had a strong enough sense of doing the right thing, 231 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.559 or a strong enough conscience or a strong enough understanding 232 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:56.000 to realize they could have done this is disturbing. 233 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:02.279 Well, some I you know, I wasn't there and I 234 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:05.799 haven't reviewed the statement by the judge at the end, 235 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:09.679 but I known in the cases that I've reviewed that 236 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:13.440 it is important for the judge to assess how the 237 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:16.600 case has played out in front of the jury, and 238 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.720 then he has the opportunity to say, you know, this 239 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.039 is what you should look at, this is what you 240 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:24.879 should look at. Like you were talking about the documents, 241 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:29.639 tell us about which documents specifically you thought that the 242 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:33.879 jury should have looked at very very closely and scrutinized 243 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:34.519 and didn't. 244 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:41.080 Two years before the trial, I sat down and reviewed 245 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:46.600 the autopsy report, and I reviewed the forensic reports of 246 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:51.600 the scene where the body was found. And in reviewing 247 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:57.039 that material, it became very obvious to me that the 248 00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:02.679 murder weapon was the duct tape. And I still believe 249 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.640 the murder weapon was the duct tape. And you know, 250 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:12.440 I can't help but think that anyone else reviewing that material, 251 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:16.039 at least out of twelve people, someone should have come 252 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.880 to that same conclusion. You know, it's not that far fetched. 253 00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:23.119 I thought of it. I was not the only person 254 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:26.119 that thought of it. And then later that's what the 255 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:30.720 prosecution presented. It was clearly obvious to. 256 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:35.160 Me how important was the fact that there was no 257 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:37.759 DNA found on the duct tape. 258 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:40.359 I think it was important to the jury, but it 259 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:44.440 should not have been because there was testimony about that 260 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:48.559 duct tape, and DNA decomposes just like the rest of 261 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:52.799 our body does, and there was so much decomposition in 262 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:58.039 the heat, in the flooding from the hurricane in that 263 00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:59.559 spot where her body was left. 264 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:03.119 Hello, it is Ryan and we could all use an 265 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:05.400 extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we, just to 266 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:08.319 make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, 267 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:11.079 counting or steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. 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The 289 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:10.200 organic material in it, that cotton fiber in it had 290 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:15.319 all decomposed, So how could and that's inside the duct tape, 291 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:18.440 so how could anything on the outside of the duct 292 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:23.680 tape had survive for testing? You know that a lot 293 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:28.359 of times you'll find jurors, and usually it's not all 294 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:31.279 of them, but you'll find somebody hanging a jury because 295 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:34.480 they either want an eyewitness, or they want a confession, 296 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:39.200 or they want DNA evidence. Well, you know, it just 297 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.640 doesn't happen with the DNA. I mean often, I mean 298 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:46.759 this is not CSI is not real world, right, And then, 299 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.799 as I said earlier, with murders, often you don't have 300 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:53.200 an eyewitness because it is not a public event, it's 301 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:59.599 something hidden and private. And in most cases and then 302 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:05.359 find and a confession. Well, you know, when you've got 303 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.000 someone sitting there accused of murder who is a malignant narcissist, 304 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:12.920 you will never get them to admit that they did 305 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:14.359 something wrong. Never. 306 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:19.960 Well, another thing that I found that I thought the 307 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:26.240 jury used to Casey Anthony's advantage was that there was 308 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.279 no by the time you say the decomposition, there was 309 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:34.240 no conclusive cause of death. Now, however, what did the jury, 310 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:39.079 how did the jury react or pardon me? What was 311 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:43.759 the prosecution's witness and how effective were they when they 312 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:49.880 tried to put Casey at the place where the body 313 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:52.599 was found, Like for those that don't know, the body 314 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:58.319 was found near the Anthony, George and Cindy's property. Now, 315 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:01.359 was there any evidence brought forward or at least some 316 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:07.640 suggestion that Casey had ample opportunity to be able to 317 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:11.079 be able to bury that body near that property or 318 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:11.640 was there. 319 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.960 They had they had the self teller things, they knew 320 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:19.599 where she was in every minutes, she where she was going. 321 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:26.640 And I do not What was perplexing to me is 322 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:32.160 I do not understand how there could be evidence presented 323 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:37.519 in the courtroom of a murderer, and the jury is 324 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:42.079 still wondering about whether maybe it was an accidental drowning 325 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.839 for which no evidence was presented. The only thing was 326 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:51.720 what was said by jose Biased in his opening statement. 327 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.119 She Now, the defense doesn't have to prove anything, but 328 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:58.480 if they promised to prove something, they should be doing that, 329 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:04.559 and they shouldn't be saying, we will do anything for 330 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.839 the defendive rights of our client, no matter if it 331 00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:13.279 violates the rights of everyone else, and they drug anyone 332 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:17.799 and everyone through the mud they could possibly drag you know, 333 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:24.039 I think it was just highly unethical to say the 334 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:27.599 things that was said about George and Lee Anthony and 335 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:28.720 Roy Klok. 336 00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:32.559 Because they had no proof. 337 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:36.920 The only thing they had was the lives of the 338 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:38.880 client that they admitted was a liar. 339 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:46.200 Right now, how did the defense counter the testimony of 340 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:52.680 George and Cindy and the testimony about the dead body 341 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:55.839 smell from the car when they first took possession of 342 00:22:55.960 --> 00:23:00.400 the car and which got this whole case going. How 343 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:02.440 did they deal with that? How did the defense deal 344 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:02.759 with that? 345 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:06.519 Well, one of the things where they put sinding up 346 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:08.880 on the stand who said that the stain was in 347 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.240 the car when they bought it, and that you know, 348 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:16.480 she didn't really say it was a dead body. She 349 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.279 really it shed smell there. They also put up this 350 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:26.880 other witness from Nebraska who had done some experiments with 351 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:33.440 a pig in the trunk of a car in Nebraska 352 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:40.680 and tried to draw conclusions from that and a body 353 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:47.640 in a flooded area in the heat of Florida. And yet, 354 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:52.240 you know, the as the prosecution put it, the pig 355 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:54.640 was not in a blanket. You know, they asked me 356 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:57.799 Whiting to put the pig in a blanket, which brought 357 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:01.559 a lot of laughs, but really didn't undermined that much 358 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.480 because Kayley's body was wrapped in a blanket, in two 359 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:09.559 different garbage bags, and then in a waterproof canvas bag. 360 00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:13.400 But still at the end of that guy's testimony, he 361 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:18.440 was saying that the garbage could have caused that smell, 362 00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:23.039 and so the prosecution got out the garbage and the 363 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:25.400 guy actually looked at it instead of looking at pictures 364 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.359 and said and reversed himself and agreed with the prosecution 365 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.920 when it was over. So none of the witnesses were 366 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.720 really effective. They had a botanist who got up there 367 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:43.000 and said that the vines that had grown through the 368 00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:46.680 eye sockets of the skull could have done so in 369 00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:51.839 two weeks, which boggles the imagination. By the time prosecution 370 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:55.440 was through with her, she was saying, well, that would 371 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.559 have been the absolute minimum. It could have taken as 372 00:24:57.640 --> 00:24:58.599 much as six months. 373 00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:03.119 Right, Well, that's not negage that testimony. 374 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.400 Yeah, and that happened over and over again. 375 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:07.079 I do not. 376 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:13.759 I do not understand this journey at all. I don't 377 00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:16.599 want to think a lot of people online have said 378 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:18.480 that all they wanted to do is to get home. 379 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.759 One of the jurors had a crucification schedule for Thursday, 380 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:24.440 so they took the easy way out in the quittor 381 00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:27.119 so they wouldn't have to If they convicted her first 382 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:29.960 degree murder, they would have had to have a penalty phase. 383 00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:32.599 It'll be days before they went home. I don't want 384 00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:35.920 to believe that they were that selfish. I really don't, 385 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:38.240 But I don't understand what they did. 386 00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:43.559 Now tell us about the aggravated manslaughter. There was some 387 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:47.359 talk that there could have been an agreement if the 388 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:51.640 verdict was going to go a certain way. Obviously, Florida's 389 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:56.279 a death penalty state, says capital crime. So tell us 390 00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:00.920 what you know about this possible aggravated manslaughter and what 391 00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:03.480 that would have meant in terms of time. 392 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.559 Well, they if they if they had considered, uh, the 393 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:15.759 aggravated manslaughter, which I didn't know why they didn't convict 394 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:20.319 her on that at the minimum. But the aggravated manslaughter 395 00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:25.640 basically was based on a belief that that she did 396 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:29.720 not premeditate this murder. It sort of just kind of 397 00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.240 happened to the spur of the moment she started wanting 398 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:35.799 to quiet the child and things got out of control, 399 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:42.319 and then she disposed of the body. But they didn't 400 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:44.759 find her guilty of that either. I mean, it's it's 401 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:46.200