Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bubo.
Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and
Speaker 2: read it five star.
Speaker 1: And meon Righteous on us today and listening watching them
Speaker 1: always keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman
Speaker 1: and James Bubo Fay. Greetings everyone, This is Matt Pruitt.
Speaker 1: Just wanted to hop on and give you a quick
Speaker 1: introduction to the episode that you're about to hear. You know,
Speaker 1: over the years that we've been doing these Q and
Speaker 1: A episodes, we've gotten a lot of submissions from people
Speaker 1: asking for book recommendations, you know, required reading, essential reading,
Speaker 1: things of that nature. And so in October of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, Cliff, Bobo and myself recorded in an episode
Speaker 1: for our members only podcast, Beyond, Bigfoot and Beyond, dedicated
Speaker 1: to some of our favorite books about the Sasquatch and
Speaker 1: other really to topics. When I was compiling the questions
Speaker 1: for the January twenty twenty five Q and A episode,
Speaker 1: we had quite a few more requests for book recommendations,
Speaker 1: so I thought it'd be a good idea to take
Speaker 1: the members only episode that we recorded back in October
Speaker 1: twenty three and release that here on the main feed,
Speaker 1: so you're going to hear a member's only episode being
Speaker 1: released here on our main podcast feed for the first time.
Speaker 1: And we also compiled a list of all the books
Speaker 1: that are mentioned in this episode. So if you click
Speaker 1: the link in the show notes to our Patreon to
Speaker 1: the membership section, you'll see that post available there if
Speaker 1: you want to see all the books listed in one place,
Speaker 1: so you don't have to write them down if you're
Speaker 1: driving or traveling or anything of that nature. So hope
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode that we originally recorded for our members,
Speaker 1: and hope you find the recommendations useful. So we're thinking
Speaker 1: that maybe we could just wrap about some of our
Speaker 1: favorite Sasquatch related books because we're still getting so many
Speaker 1: questions about what books would we recommend to people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: remember we talked about like the Klobo's Book Club, which
Speaker 1: we will do deep dives in the future on specific books,
Speaker 1: but maybe for now we just talk about our top
Speaker 1: three or top five recommendations that you would offer to
Speaker 1: people those sorts of things.
Speaker 2: Okay, cool, Well, what would you recommend We've already started recording.
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, there's a wide range people. People that have
Speaker 3: like a extensive Bigfoot libraries of their own personal books.
Speaker 3: And then there's people that just kind of are fans
Speaker 3: of the show that don't really have any So I
Speaker 3: guess who we start with.
Speaker 2: That well, I'd say, just yeah, just choose one, I think.
Speaker 2: And because you know, there's been people, there are people
Speaker 2: who have been into this thing for a while, and
Speaker 2: maybe they haven't read the book you're mentioning because they
Speaker 2: a different book got them going.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I think, you know, I think, well,
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're a reader, I mean, if you
Speaker 3: should read one book, i'd say prove it the phenomenal
Speaker 3: Sasquash if you want to really kind of go through it.
Speaker 3: And I enjoyed the historical I love the historical parts
Speaker 3: of it. And I think if you start with Sanderson,
Speaker 3: you know, back in sixty one, nineteen sixty one, I
Speaker 3: think that's a great place to start.
Speaker 2: It is. But I don't like his writing style. You don't, no, no,
Speaker 2: I don't like it. It's a little archaic and weird
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 3: I kind of like that about it.
Speaker 2: I like the book, don't get me wrong. It has
Speaker 2: a lot of great information in it, but that's not
Speaker 2: it doesn't flow easily from the page to my brain.
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. And a lot of the
Speaker 1: language is sort of archaic because you know, we were
Speaker 1: still in like the figurative dark ages of understanding of
Speaker 1: apes and hominoid evolution, and a lot of the fossils
Speaker 1: that are relevant hadn't even been found yet, and so
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that are a bit outdated
Speaker 1: in terms of the unfolding discovery of the history of
Speaker 1: pre human ancestors and human relatives. But yeah, I would
Speaker 1: that is one of my top five for sure.
Speaker 3: But it gives you an idea like what people were
Speaker 3: like when you read the next books, like this is
Speaker 3: what they're like, this is the first thing they went
Speaker 3: off of. You know, it kind of just gives you.
Speaker 3: It lets you into the mindset of the people of
Speaker 3: the time and when you factor and how would they
Speaker 3: do about what you just the things you just mentioned,
Speaker 3: how little was done in Garston nowadays, Like how the
Speaker 3: thought process that came to their conclusions and stuff is
Speaker 3: I think pretty fascinating.
Speaker 1: Oh, I would agree with that. I think it's good
Speaker 1: to visit after maybe, I mean, to me, I would
Speaker 1: always recommend starting with greens, apes among Us. That would
Speaker 1: be the first ultimate first book.
Speaker 2: See, I don't even know if I would agree with that. Well,
Speaker 2: you were wrong, Cliff, Well, I could very well be wrong.
Speaker 2: But here perfect here. But here's my complaint about it.
Speaker 2: I love the first half or more of it, but
Speaker 2: by the time you're getting two thirds of the way through,
Speaker 2: it comes down. Apes among Us turns into the thing
Speaker 2: on February ninth, nineteen seventy four, so and so and
Speaker 2: wherever Kentucky and saw one run across the road. Bubba,
Speaker 2: it was brown. And then the next paragraph is a
Speaker 2: different rattling of statistics. You know, it kind of runs.
Speaker 2: At some point, it seems to me that Apes among
Speaker 2: Us and I love the book. It's a great book.
Speaker 2: I'm not bashing it. But if I have a complaint
Speaker 2: about it, which I kind of do, it turns into
Speaker 2: a rattling of this happened, this happened, this happen, and
Speaker 2: it kind of loses the narrative thread that I felt
Speaker 2: that really held it together for the first part of
Speaker 2: the book. Yeah, yeah, I mean, am I raw? I mean,
Speaker 2: like you agree with But what about you, Matt. I
Speaker 2: know that you're that's a that's your number one go
Speaker 2: to book. Am I off base on that? Or what
Speaker 2: are your opinion? What's your opinion on that?
Speaker 1: I think he does a really good job. First of all,
Speaker 1: he's such a reliable narrator, and he has a much
Speaker 1: more accessible writing style than most because he was an
Speaker 1: Ivy League educated journalist and so he was a great writer,
Speaker 1: and he had sort of an editorial mind as a writer,
Speaker 1: which is probably extremely helpful, you know, for writing a
Speaker 1: book as big as that is. I like the way
Speaker 1: it's broken out, you know, it does become sort of
Speaker 1: a presentation of various cases, especially because essentially you have
Speaker 1: those beginning portions where he's like introducing the subject, talking
Speaker 1: about the historical record, and then his sort of entry
Speaker 1: through the centennial Sasquatch, Hunt, Bluff Creek, the classics Patterson.
Speaker 1: But then it does sort of move into these regional
Speaker 1: breakouts of reports that have occurred. So there's you know,
Speaker 1: like the Mississippi water Web, Wolli Booger is, the Canadian scene,
Speaker 1: Eastern action. But once he gets through that, then it
Speaker 1: shifts back into like, all right, there's a chapter about footprints,
Speaker 1: where are the bones, screams in the night, you know, vocals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the statistical analysis that stuff is cool, but in
Speaker 2: the middle there, I think it gets trapped in this quagmire.
Speaker 2: You know it does.
Speaker 1: But I think for a lot of people who are
Speaker 1: new ish to the subject, it's really enlightening for them
Speaker 1: to see the number of people across North America that
Speaker 1: were reporting these things even in the mid twentieth century
Speaker 1: and all the things that we think of now, because
Speaker 1: it's really easy to get stuck in modern times. And
Speaker 1: I did this with Sanderson's book too, where things would
Speaker 1: sort of emerge out of reports that seemed new to me,
Speaker 1: and then I would revisit Sanderson and go, oh, he
Speaker 1: picked up on that same pattern in sixty one, where
Speaker 1: you see, oh Green picked up on this same pattern
Speaker 1: in the late sixties or early seventies. And so that's
Speaker 1: sort of a reinforcing thing to think that the some
Speaker 1: of the things that feel like newer discoveries, like twenty
Speaker 1: first century discoveries, were actually present even back then, which
Speaker 1: strengthens the case for the reality of the subject.
Speaker 2: Right right now. If I had to modify this at all, see,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go to apes among us first, I would
Speaker 2: go to the best of Sasquatch Bigfoot, which of course
Speaker 2: is a compilation of John's three other books that those
Speaker 2: smaller pamphlet books. I find those to be more readable
Speaker 2: and digestible. And the fact that they were all put
Speaker 2: together into one book by Hancock House Press, The Best
Speaker 2: of Sasquatch Bigfoot, I think that would be my go
Speaker 2: to John Green book for the newbie, because that covers
Speaker 2: a lot of the historic stuff, the foundational things in
Speaker 2: Bluff Creek and British Columbia, the stuff the early things
Speaker 2: that John everybody else looked into. But and of course
Speaker 2: Apes among Us is the next step after that. See,
Speaker 2: I would have gone to Best of Sasquatch Bigfoot first
Speaker 2: for that reason, because at that point Apes among Us
Speaker 2: build upon best of you know these other books. You know,
Speaker 2: you're the Sasquatch, and then the other ones that are
Speaker 2: escaping me right now you know what they are.
Speaker 1: No, that's a great point.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 1: I started. The first book I read was Crets's book,
Speaker 1: and so it was very because I hadn't studied any
Speaker 1: like evolutionary biology or anthropology at that point, and so
Speaker 1: it was very difficult because I just that was like
Speaker 1: first contact with a lot of those terms. And I
Speaker 1: still love that book, and I revisited a lot, and
Speaker 1: so Green's was more like, I'm following a reliable narrator
Speaker 1: who's walking me through this whole world that is the
Speaker 1: Sasquatch subject. And so yeah, I do think that's a
Speaker 1: great point though, that the best of Bigfoot Sasquatch would
Speaker 1: be a great one. Another great one is Chris Murphy's
Speaker 1: Either Meet the Sasquatch or the second edition Know the Sasquatch,
Speaker 1: because there's just so much. There's a lot of information there,
Speaker 1: but you will never find a better collection of images.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the perfect coffee table book on Sasquatch. Honestly beautiful,
Speaker 2: glossy book. The pictures are all in color, or at
Speaker 2: least the ones that were taken in color originally are
Speaker 2: all in color, because there's certainly black and white photographs
Speaker 2: in there. And it's big, it's glossy, it's very very visual.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of but despite the fact that it's
Speaker 2: very visual pact full of pictures, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: really great informational texts in there as well. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: they have the text and the information combined with the photographs.
Speaker 2: It's a really powerful thing. It's just fantastic and and
Speaker 2: a lot of people may not remember, but there it
Speaker 2: was originally published I think with the like a leather
Speaker 2: bound cover or something like that. Really yeah, and it
Speaker 2: was also in a hardback. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: guys have the hardback version or not. I have an
Speaker 2: autographed hard cover by and you know John Green and
Speaker 2: Steinberg and Murphy, they all autographed that one that was
Speaker 2: the original one. But I couldn't have. I believe that
Speaker 2: there was a leather bound edition as well.
Speaker 3: Oh I did have that. I think I still have it.
Speaker 2: You should, I hope. So it's probably worth quite a bit.
Speaker 3: I think I paid one hundred and fifty for it.
Speaker 2: You know, you have a hell of a book collection, Boves,
Speaker 2: You really do. Steven Stroyford, who the owner of the
Speaker 2: establishment that was once so it's called big Foot Books,
Speaker 2: said you were his best customer there for a long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I spent four grand in there in one year.
Speaker 2: Geez geez, Well what was some of the walkaways you got?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 2: What would would you walk away with?
Speaker 3: Just like first edition stuff like rare stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this all goes in You're safe, right, Yeah?
Speaker 3: I had more, but I gave him I gave him
Speaker 3: away his presence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're kind of like that. You're generous to a
Speaker 2: fault if I don't say so myself. Yeah, but you
Speaker 2: mentioned Krantz's book, that Krantz's book was really influential upon me.
Speaker 2: It wasn't the first big Foot book I ran across.
Speaker 2: I think one of John Green's, one of the paperback ones.
Speaker 2: I don't remember which one on the Track of the
Speaker 2: Sasquatch or You're the Track Sasquatch or something like that.
Speaker 2: Those may have been amongst the first, because I remember
Speaker 2: looking through the college library that I often mentioned is
Speaker 2: what kind of got me into this, And I think
Speaker 2: I ran across thows and oh this is kind of interesting,
Speaker 2: and kind of started leafing through it, you know, the
Speaker 2: or the Sasquatch file. That's the last one I finally
Speaker 2: came to me. It was kind of like looking at
Speaker 2: those and oh, this is interesting, and then I ran
Speaker 2: across it was either Mysterious Monsters on Trial or no, no,
Speaker 2: is that right? Mysterious Monsters on Trial? That's right, like
Speaker 2: monster man like okay, the other yeah, another m word
Speaker 2: man like Monsters on Trial? Or was it there was
Speaker 2: one called Sasquatch and that's always called at a yellow cover.
Speaker 2: I think A Mrcotic was his name. He was one
Speaker 2: of the It was a compilation of journal articles written
Speaker 2: by scientists. Yeah, and Krantz was a co editor on
Speaker 2: one of those, I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he submitted some of those papers. So yeah, there's
Speaker 1: the big compendiums. Yeah, or the scientists look at the
Speaker 1: sasquatch one and two man like monsters on trial and
Speaker 1: then the sasquatch and other hominidsmids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my baptism into the science of bigfoot.
Speaker 2: I think I might have like perused through some of
Speaker 2: the sighting reports in the John Green book, But when
Speaker 2: I started reading those cover to cover multiple times, that
Speaker 2: really struck me. That really really struck me, as like,
Speaker 2: holy crap, these things are real. You're kidding me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I revisit those a lot, and you know, I reference
Speaker 1: those in writing the book too. And I'm the Krantz
Speaker 1: book too. I love It just wasn't the best first
Speaker 1: contact for a kid from North Georgia, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: I suppose you really read down there.
Speaker 1: Well, it was sort of like a calling to Okay,
Speaker 1: well I need to learn these things. And I rose
Speaker 1: to the challenge of trying to be more equip more
Speaker 1: well equipped to make sense of everything. So those sorts
Speaker 1: of like, that's why I really enjoyed challenging reads or
Speaker 1: technical reads, because it's an opportunity to learn. But in
Speaker 1: terms of yeah, I think I came to it expecting
Speaker 1: a different thing that I eventually found in apes among
Speaker 1: us I had.
Speaker 2: I still have my weather beaten copy of the Krantz Book.
Speaker 2: I would take that to Bluff Creek every time I went,
Speaker 2: starting in nineteen ninety three or four whenever that I
Speaker 2: think was four, and when I started going, Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was nineteen ninety four when I started going to Bluff Creek. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I just beat the crap.
Speaker 3: Out of that book.
Speaker 2: It's like missing a cover, I think maybe the title,
Speaker 2: page two. Just that poor book has been all over
Speaker 2: the place with me. I used to take it and
Speaker 2: read it on the trips, read it at night, read it.
Speaker 2: And I probably have read that book, The Krantz Book,
Speaker 2: probably no less than thirty times, wow, and probably much
Speaker 2: closer to fifty because I would just plow through that
Speaker 2: thing once or twice a year. You know, I've been
Speaker 2: doing this for twenty nine years now. So like assuming
Speaker 2: that in the early days, if I'd read that book
Speaker 2: three or four times in a year, or in certain
Speaker 2: chapters more than others, by the way, maybe I wouldn't
Speaker 2: do it cover to cover. I've been through that an
Speaker 2: awful lot, an awful lot. It's very very influential upon me.
Speaker 2: It has as flaws, of course, but it was very
Speaker 2: very influential upon me realizing that, like, oh, yeah, you
Speaker 2: can do stuff. Because I've always been interested in amateur science.
Speaker 2: I'm an amateur astronomer. I've got a pretty good telescope,
Speaker 2: for example, and I love that. I'm certainly an amateur
Speaker 2: marine biologist, which is hence my love of fishing in general.
Speaker 2: And I saw that there was a niche, there was
Speaker 2: a place for amateurs here to contribute, because frankly, the
Speaker 2: academics aren't carrying their weight. They aren't doing what they're
Speaker 2: supposed to be doing, which is following their curiosity to
Speaker 2: the extent they find answers. Therefore it's up to us.
Speaker 2: And when I started reading about the science that was
Speaker 2: being done, it's, oh, my gosh, what an opportunity here,
Speaker 2: What an opportunity to possibly contribute just a little tiny
Speaker 2: bit for the good of a subject that is larger
Speaker 2: than me. Oh. Absolutely, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and
Speaker 2: Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after
Speaker 2: these messages.
Speaker 1: And you know, I love both of Bennernagle's books. The
Speaker 1: first one's almost impossible to find now, you know. I
Speaker 1: got a copy many years ago and always try to
Speaker 1: find a second one. But it's tricky because when they
Speaker 1: do pop up, they go for so much money. But
Speaker 1: his second book, The Discovery of the Sasquatch, is probably
Speaker 1: my personal favorite book ever written on the subject.
Speaker 2: It's almost like a survey of the philosophy of science
Speaker 2: itself in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very conceptual, very philosophical, but he does present
Speaker 1: a lot of factual information to be derived from reports
Speaker 1: and from the physical evidence, and so it's sort of
Speaker 1: the blending of both of those sort of worlds of
Speaker 1: the hard evidence, let's say, combined with the anecdotal evidence
Speaker 1: and eye witness testimony, but various philosophies of science. And
Speaker 1: he makes just such a great case about how could
Speaker 1: these things be real and yet unrecognized? And I think
Speaker 1: that book's an incredible contribution. I wish they would put
Speaker 1: it in a Kindle format so more people could access it.
Speaker 1: Leela Hodgechik's Ford is an excellent essay too. I mean
Speaker 1: that Ford alone is awesome, you know. I wish that
Speaker 1: would get digitized and put on the internet as a
Speaker 1: standalone document for people to read. But his first book's
Speaker 1: amazing too, which is The Sasquatch North America's Grade eight.
Speaker 1: But it's very, very difficult to find. But readers could
Speaker 1: get the Discovery of the Sasquatch from Amazon still, but
Speaker 1: hopefully they'll put those in digital format. The problem with
Speaker 1: a lot of the Sasquatch classics. Now, those two Vender
Speaker 1: Noogles books were published through a company called Beachcomber, so
Speaker 1: I don't know what their process is like.
Speaker 2: I think that was the Bendernaggles thing. I think they
Speaker 2: kind of self published.
Speaker 3: It, yeah, I said him and his wife.
Speaker 1: Because Hancock House, what they've done for most of their
Speaker 1: titles is to scan and upload the books as PDF images.
Speaker 1: So usually if you're in an ebook format, it's a
Speaker 1: text file so you can search within it, which is amazing,
Speaker 1: or you can highlight notes and export those or just
Speaker 1: go to your highlighted sections. But literally, if you get
Speaker 1: apes among us or Krantz's book on kindle or ebook format.
Speaker 1: There are image files of the pages, so they're very
Speaker 1: you can't highlight notes, you can't they're not searchable, which
Speaker 1: is a little frustrated because that's part of the benefit
Speaker 1: of reading the e book versions. So maybe they'll do
Speaker 1: something about that at some point in the future. But
Speaker 1: I would definitely if I had to pick one for
Speaker 1: me that was a personal favorite, it would without a
Speaker 1: doubt be the discovery of the Sasquatch.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, if we're talking about bender Augel and Krantz,
Speaker 2: we have to talk about Meldrum's book. Absolutely, Yeah, Meldrum's book.
Speaker 2: It is just fantastic. It's the number one book I
Speaker 2: recommend to people. I mean, I'm clearly a Krantz sites,
Speaker 2: you know, like if you're I always I think I
Speaker 2: might may have said this before, but if you're looking
Speaker 2: at the four horsemen, I think most people kind of
Speaker 2: fall in line behind one of them, and I definitely
Speaker 2: find fall in line behind Krantz, and Meldrum is the
Speaker 2: next in line in that same line.
Speaker 1: Indeed, I'm a greenient.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: In fact, the second edition, the second edition of Krantz's
Speaker 2: book acknowledges doctor and Belgrium, because in the first edition
Speaker 2: Jeff wasn't on the scene yet. He wrote that in
Speaker 2: probably ninety one or ninety two. I think he published
Speaker 2: in ninety one or ninety two, so he's writing it
Speaker 2: in the late eighties early nineties. And the second edition
Speaker 2: he had a little addendum there and he mentions Jeff
Speaker 2: is on the scene now and a trained an atomist
Speaker 2: looking at these things, and he acknowledges that doctor Meldrum's
Speaker 2: recognition of the mid tarsal break. And of course if
Speaker 2: you read Krantz's book, if you go back and read
Speaker 2: those early chapters on footprints in Krantz's book, he does
Speaker 2: acknowledge it as well, but he doesn't come to the
Speaker 2: name of it. He doesn't do the mid tarsal joints.
Speaker 2: He doesn't talk about pressure ridges and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: He does talk about I think the words are something
Speaker 2: like again I don't have the book in front of me,
Speaker 2: but the word is something like considerable flexibility in the
Speaker 2: mid part of the foot I believe is what he said,
Speaker 2: something to that effect. So he does recognize it, and
Speaker 2: he does give Krantz gave himself on a little pat
Speaker 2: on his back in that little chapter where he talks
Speaker 2: about chef in his work. But yeah, Meldrum's book built
Speaker 2: upon what Krantz had done and expanded upon it. And
Speaker 2: for what it's worth, Rumor is Jeff's writing another book
Speaker 2: that will be released around the same time as Doug
Speaker 2: Hizek's Legend meets Science documentary rumors happened. Yeah, well, if
Speaker 2: it's out there, good. I mean I knew it was happening,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know if it was officially mentioned or
Speaker 2: not yet. Yes, no, Yeah, So I'm looking on that
Speaker 2: because looking forward to that, because doctor Meldrim will certainly
Speaker 2: build upon his own work because his book is I
Speaker 2: mean it's not dated to the point of being useless,
Speaker 2: but what it was it published in two thousand and
Speaker 2: six or two thousand and eight. Yeah, that's you know,
Speaker 2: it's twenty twenty three right now. That's kind of a
Speaker 2: long time ago, and so much has happened, and there
Speaker 2: have been so many advances in science and various disciplines
Speaker 2: that come to bear on this topic. So I'm very
Speaker 2: much looking forward to doctor Meldrim's next book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those would be my five required reading to me.
Speaker 1: If you read these five books you would have a
Speaker 1: very thorough education. The ones we talked about Sanderson Green's
Speaker 1: Apes among us, Krantz, Meldrim and Bitner novels Discovery the Sasquatch.
Speaker 1: And then there's other books I love, you know, those
Speaker 1: sort of narrative journeys that aren't necessarily a deep dive
Speaker 1: into the subject, but are sort of again, sort of
Speaker 1: following a narrator who's seeing the subject in a broad
Speaker 1: view through their own particular lens. We already talked about.
Speaker 1: I absolutely love John Zada's book In the Valleys and
Speaker 1: the Noble Beyond. And I know we all loved Robert
Speaker 1: Piles Where Bigfoot Walks. That's another great one in that category.
Speaker 2: Did you see the movie?
Speaker 1: I still haven't watched the movie because we did that
Speaker 1: interview with him and hearing about you know, he wasn't lamenting,
Speaker 1: but hearing the differences between the way he was represented
Speaker 1: in the film and the way they toured with the
Speaker 1: timeline of his life sort of turned me off a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 3: Dude, he ruined Bob Pile in that movie. He'd been
Speaker 3: able to look the biggest kop See.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm worried. Didn't they also make him look
Speaker 1: like like totally inept in the outdoors.
Speaker 3: Yeah, total, totally totally clueless, like just a door. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and Bob is anything but man, he did
Speaker 2: that solo trip across s Gipfard Pinchow. You don't do
Speaker 2: a solo trip if you're some loser in the woods.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So listeners, if you haven't listened to the Bob
Speaker 1: Pyle episode that we did around the time. We also
Speaker 1: did an interview with the director of that film. But
Speaker 1: you know, I do enjoy those books too, because they're
Speaker 1: just very well written. So it's not necessarily going to
Speaker 1: give you an education on the Sasquatch, but they're very
Speaker 1: enjoyable reads, especially John's Agis book. Like, I just really
Speaker 1: thought that was a beautiful book, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I think a valuable mention. I don't think it's
Speaker 2: one of in my top five or anything, but definite
Speaker 2: worthy of mention, especially for people our age, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, but was my age, and of course you
Speaker 2: two met, you're a little younger than us, but still
Speaker 2: legend of Boggy Creek has affected all of us in
Speaker 2: various ways, right, I mean, that was some of my
Speaker 2: earliest memories of the Bigfoot thing, and it's been just
Speaker 2: a profound effect upon my life in so many ways,
Speaker 2: to the point where when I met Keith Crabtree, the
Speaker 2: guy in the suit, like like I teared up, like
Speaker 2: I was so moved by meeting the dude in the suit.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: That got thrown through the door.
Speaker 2: We bet Oh yeah, that guy. I also teered up.
Speaker 2: Then I got his autograph, like I got both all
Speaker 2: these they're up in the museum. They mean so much
Speaker 2: to me. So Lyle Blackburn's the Piece of boll Eu
Speaker 2: Creek has to be.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that's a great one.
Speaker 2: It's because it resonated so strongly with with my youth,
Speaker 2: you know, in this that sort of way.
Speaker 3: And you know, a little book I love is The Yawi.
Speaker 1: That is one of my favorite mystery eight books of
Speaker 1: all time, the two thousand and six Yawi. I'm still
Speaker 1: reading the Yawi File. You know. It is just sort
Speaker 1: of a not to detegrate it, but it is just
Speaker 1: a compinium of reports, whereas the original book that they wrote,
Speaker 1: the Yawi in two thousand and six. It's just that
Speaker 1: is absolutely one of my favorite books on the subject
Speaker 1: of mystery as historically speaking. One of the most amazing
Speaker 1: collections of information that I've seen that suffers from and
Speaker 1: I don't know if this person listens, but if you listen,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but suffers from. I think one of the
Speaker 1: worst titles was there was a book that was released
Speaker 1: a few years ago called Far Out Shaggy Funky Mind.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah, that guy Daniel Green Green, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: Daniel Green. There you go.
Speaker 1: Man. There's so much incredible information and it's a compendium
Speaker 1: of personal correspondences, print media articles, happenings, newsletters, bulletins, all
Speaker 1: just a tremendous amount of information from the end of
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine until the very beginning of nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1: So it really covers the nineteen seventies. And so the
Speaker 1: title is sort of a nod to terminology of pop
Speaker 1: culture in the seventies. But I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people have missed that book because the title is so goofy.
Speaker 1: Sorry Daniel if you're.
Speaker 2: Listening, because great book. Great book.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I learned so many things that I wasn't previously
Speaker 1: aware of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the seventies, sixties and seventies are like kind
Speaker 2: of the heyday of the Bigfoot thing, when it first
Speaker 2: became public knowledge that these things may be out there.
Speaker 2: It's when, certainly, when I was growing up throughout the
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, I saw the various shlockumentaries and loved them all.
Speaker 2: And that book encapsulates the feel, which is what I
Speaker 2: think he was trying to do with the title. Of course,
Speaker 2: you know, but to see the primary sources in a
Speaker 2: way of the newspaper articles reporting the things that we
Speaker 2: would later read about in other books. I think that
Speaker 2: is a really really great book and certainly one that
Speaker 2: I love thumbing through. It's not a cover to cover
Speaker 2: short of book. It's one that you just pick up
Speaker 2: and like, oh, I remember that. That was cool.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of great regional books too. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have to mention my dear friend Mike May's book
Speaker 1: Valley of the Apes, which is about the nawac's work
Speaker 1: in Area X. It's a great book. I loved reading that.
Speaker 1: You know, I know a lot of those people and
Speaker 1: I've been there many times. But Mike put it into
Speaker 1: a great narrative and also really love I know you
Speaker 1: do too, Raincoast Sasquatch. That's a great book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the better ones. I think it
Speaker 2: really opened my eyes to the ability of these things
Speaker 2: to swim. For example, that's why I first heard of
Speaker 2: reader reports of these things swimming. I think there's been
Speaker 2: a few things here and there. Of course, you know,
Speaker 2: even the Bossburg creature went in out of like Roosevelt,
Speaker 2: which is of course the Columbia River, but it's just
Speaker 2: dammed up at that point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. That book is one of my
Speaker 3: that's top ten for me too.
Speaker 2: You know a book that I read that I just
Speaker 2: love and I do go back to occasionally because if
Speaker 2: we're talking about the history of the subject and whatnot,
Speaker 2: you know, the whole big Foot thing. Yeah, of course, sasquatching.
Speaker 2: That term was coined in the nineteen twenties, and Bigfoot
Speaker 2: kind of came on the scene in nineteen fifty eight
Speaker 2: and stuff. But before that, the world was in this
Speaker 2: like this, this tizzy about the ambomitable snowman, the Yeti
Speaker 2: in general. So when I when I plowed through Tom
Speaker 2: Slick in The Search for the Yeti by Lauren Coleman,
Speaker 2: good book. Yeah, great book. I think it has some
Speaker 2: of the best yeiritten YETI knowledge in written anywhere anywhere
Speaker 2: on that particular part because Lauren is a fantastic what
Speaker 2: was the word I'm looking for, not just author, but
Speaker 2: like his his his perspective of history is fantastic, and
Speaker 2: the fact that he was actually doing stuff back in
Speaker 2: that time too. He was a young man. I think
Speaker 2: at that point he's been looking at this thing for
Speaker 2: seventy years. I think he told me, And there's nobody
Speaker 2: like that in available nowadays. Yeah, so Tom's looking The
Speaker 2: Search for the YETI is a fantastic book because it's
Speaker 2: it's part biography of Tom Slick and then part informational
Speaker 2: about the investigations into the Yetti at that time, which
Speaker 2: dovetailed into the Sasquatch thing that we're all enjoying today.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I read that book probably three times. I thought
Speaker 3: it was great. And you don't link to that though.
Speaker 3: It's a good one, except for the endings of bum
Speaker 3: out is was it? Heinrich Messner?
Speaker 1: The Reinhold Messner Rhinhold.
Speaker 3: Messner, Yes, Yetti book and he kind of he caught
Speaker 3: so much crap. I mean, it's a great book, and
Speaker 3: then he tries to write it off at the end
Speaker 3: as a whistling, upright running bear that he saw like
Speaker 3: so he quit catching crap from all the people about
Speaker 3: saying he saw YETI Yeah.
Speaker 2: That was a super big disappointment because at the beginning
Speaker 2: he was saying, oh, yeah, I was upright, I had
Speaker 2: a lot, but he was describing or yedi or a sasquatch,
Speaker 2: was describing something that could not possibly be a bear
Speaker 2: in anyway, And at the end he goes, yeah, it
Speaker 2: was a bear. So so what are you a bad observer?
Speaker 2: Is that? It like you're just shooting yourself in the
Speaker 2: foot by saying it's like, I wrote all this stuff earlier,
Speaker 2: and I'm either an incompetent observer or a coward for
Speaker 2: changing my mind at the end, very very disappointing to me,
Speaker 2: very disappointing. He's going, oh, clip, just called that guy
Speaker 2: a coward.
Speaker 3: I did, I did. I said all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 3: But I was like, yeah, I was so bung like
Speaker 3: I was a hero. And then all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: I was like, dude, you're being a bach like just
Speaker 3: because you can't stand up by like he saw it,
Speaker 3: he saw it, and stick to your guns. But it
Speaker 3: was still a great book because he's such a badass,
Speaker 3: he's been so through that area. Just his His writing
Speaker 3: about that area was was, you know, pretty pretty compelling.
Speaker 3: It was. It was a good photow to make you
Speaker 3: really want to go there and check it out. Myself.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna see if you guys had favorite
Speaker 1: books that were not about the Sasquatch but directly related
Speaker 1: to it, you know, the analogous Hmmm.
Speaker 3: I don't read much nonfiction. I mean fiction, I don't
Speaker 3: read much fiction.
Speaker 1: No, No, these are not fictional. I mean they're just
Speaker 1: they're about other animals. Like I would recommend all our
Speaker 1: listeners read David Peterson's Ghost Grizzlies, about the potential survival
Speaker 1: of grizzlies in the South San Juans of southern Colorado.
Speaker 1: Any of the Jim Corbett books, especially Man Eaters of Command,
Speaker 1: some of the most riveting nature writing. David Kwalman's Monster
Speaker 1: of God is a fantastic book about belief systems associated
Speaker 1: with certain animals. You know, I referenced some of that
Speaker 1: stuff in my book. And then there's a great writer
Speaker 1: named sim Montgomery who wrote an awesome book called Spell
Speaker 1: of the Tiger. She wrote a book called The Search
Speaker 1: for the Golden Moonbear, which has this sort of like
Speaker 1: cryptozoological angle. I guess because it's the search for this
Speaker 1: as yet sort of undiscovered species of bear, or I
Speaker 1: guess at the time it was somewhat undiscovered or thought
Speaker 1: to have been lost, maybe like a Lazarus species. I
Speaker 1: don't know a lot about it yet, but I'm about
Speaker 1: to dive into it. But the Spell of the Tiger
Speaker 1: was amazing. She went to the Sundarbans, which is like
Speaker 1: the tiger death capital of Asia. There's more people eating
Speaker 1: thereby tigers than anywhere else, and so her writing is fantastic.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to digging into that. But I
Speaker 1: just think there's so many consistencies between a lot of
Speaker 1: these studies and lessons to be learned about how people
Speaker 1: find these other sort of hidden animals are very rare
Speaker 1: animals that are just directly applicable, and it's great fun
Speaker 1: to read those things.
Speaker 2: I don't have any books like that have really grabbed
Speaker 2: me or I can think of off the top of
Speaker 2: my head, But what did come to mind are a
Speaker 2: couple of books by Ian Tattersall. Ian Tattersall, I think
Speaker 2: he's head of the Human Origins department at the Museum
Speaker 2: in New York, the Natural History Museum in New York,
Speaker 2: American Naturalistory Museum in New York. I'm not sure what
Speaker 2: the title I forget is, but he wrote a book,
Speaker 2: the first one I read of him is called Masters
Speaker 2: of the Planet, and basically his premise there is that
Speaker 2: humans are special, not because of our tool use or
Speaker 2: fire or anything like that. It's mostly for symbolic thought,
Speaker 2: being able to put larger ideas into symbols, whether those
Speaker 2: symbols are visual like photographs or pictures or hand signals,
Speaker 2: or if they're auditory, which comes down the language. Because
Speaker 2: if I say, if I say the word I don't
Speaker 2: know tree, those sounds I just made to e like
Speaker 2: that's not a tree, but the idea that that those
Speaker 2: sounds symbolize are translated into our brain as a tree,
Speaker 2: and he was arguing that that perhaps is the origin
Speaker 2: of our humanity. I guess, in some sort of way,
Speaker 2: maybe the kernel of our humanity, for lack of a
Speaker 2: better term. So I really enjoyed that book because it
Speaker 2: as well as my other favorite book by him, which
Speaker 2: is called the Case of the Rickety Cossack. What both
Speaker 2: of these books kind of eventually fall into in case
Speaker 2: of the Rickety Cossack is also in a book by
Speaker 2: Ian Tattersall. What both of these books eventually fall into
Speaker 2: is almost like a brief history of paleoanthropology, which I
Speaker 2: think is a fantastic topic and one that most bigfooters,
Speaker 2: if not all bigfooters, should probably dip their toes into
Speaker 2: a little bit, because not only does a shed light
Speaker 2: upon ourselves as Homo sapiens, but also sasquatches for whatever
Speaker 2: they are. But finding out the history of paleoanthropology through
Speaker 2: these books and what we think we may have learned
Speaker 2: about our ancestors and near relatives directly relates to sasquatches
Speaker 2: in many many ways. It was I think it was
Speaker 2: Masters of the Planet if I remember correctly, that book
Speaker 2: is what kind of sheds some light on this idea
Speaker 2: of mind that sasquatches are probably power scavenging on coyote,
Speaker 2: you know, prey essentially power scavenging. I've mentioned before, is
Speaker 2: this strategy of animals and hyenas do it for humans?
Speaker 2: Did it? We still probably do in some places in
Speaker 2: the world. Australla pithesenes did it where they basically let
Speaker 2: some other animal kill kill the prey, and then we'd
Speaker 2: move in and throw rocks and sticks and try to
Speaker 2: make off with the biggest part we can and then
Speaker 2: let the predator have the rest of the kill. And
Speaker 2: I think sasquatches are doing that. I think that is
Speaker 2: the connection between coyotes and bigfoots for the most part.
Speaker 2: And it was this book Mashes of the Planet where
Speaker 2: I picked up on that idea and started developing it
Speaker 2: and reformulating it for as a sasquatch, molding it into
Speaker 2: what might be ap plicable to our big friends in
Speaker 2: the woods here. And of course the case of the
Speaker 2: Rickety Cossack. That is definitely a kind of a history
Speaker 2: of paleo anthropology written in a narrative sort of way,
Speaker 2: which is really neatly. It's a really great book, and
Speaker 2: it shows you not only how much we've learned, but
Speaker 2: also how little we have to learn from I hear
Speaker 2: people say, oh, evolutions just a theory. Well, that's as
Speaker 2: we're missing so many pieces of it. I mean, evolution
Speaker 2: is a fact period. It's just like the details that
Speaker 2: we're still shaping. There's really no denying it. If you
Speaker 2: win face with the evidence like that, and I hope
Speaker 2: I'm not stepping on anybody's toes, but sorry, it's true.
Speaker 2: And the case of the Rickney Cossacks shows you the
Speaker 2: development of our ideas about ourselves and our origins over time,
Speaker 2: and also some of the relatives that we have in
Speaker 2: common and all that stuff is just so fascinating to me.
Speaker 2: And the way he packaged it and presents it is
Speaker 2: very palatable. It's just it's not exactly it is an
Speaker 2: easy read. It's certainly not a difficult read. It's nothing
Speaker 2: that you know, it's not an archaic language, and it's
Speaker 2: not like his sentence structure is weird and you have
Speaker 2: to get in your head. It's a great reading. Both
Speaker 2: of these are fantastic books.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Have you read David Begans The Real Planet of
Speaker 1: the Apes?
Speaker 2: Oh? I have actually, yeah, I actually have read that
Speaker 2: is my library at home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of my favorite books about ape evolution.
Speaker 1: He makes a really strong argument for the evolution of
Speaker 1: apes predominantly occurring in Eurasia. But it's a fantastic book
Speaker 1: about the Asian apes and the Eurasian apes, apes that
Speaker 1: evolved in parts of Europe as well. But That's one
Speaker 1: of my favorite paleoanthropological books.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 2: There is another book I read and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I think some of his theses that might not bear out,
Speaker 2: but the information I picked up from was really nice.
Speaker 2: And I forget who wrote it. I can look it
Speaker 2: up real fast. But it's called The Red Ape. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I forget. It's basically about orangutans. And this is when
Speaker 2: I was. I wanted to find out more stuff about
Speaker 2: gigantipithes scenes and I knew that they were closely related
Speaker 2: to orangutans, so I wanted to read about those and
Speaker 2: see what was up with that sort of stuff. The
Speaker 2: Read Ape. Jeffrey Schwartz is the author of that one,
Speaker 2: And after reading that book, I was just enamored by
Speaker 2: orangutans and I could see that, you know, okay, maybe
Speaker 2: they are somehow related to the Sasquatches in some sort
Speaker 2: of way. Maybe you know, the Sasquatch Giganto connection is
Speaker 2: of the real deal because of the behaviors and the
Speaker 2: intelligence level and whatnot of orangutans, because they seem to be,
Speaker 2: depending on how one measures it, the smartest of the apes,
Speaker 2: and just so fascinating in so many ways, and the
Speaker 2: small details of their anatomy that they go into. It's
Speaker 2: a really great read. Now, I happen to mention that
Speaker 2: one time the doctor Meldrum, because we've been camping together
Speaker 2: a few times, and around the campfire we start this
Speaker 2: is the direction of conversation very often human evolution and
Speaker 2: apes and all that sort of stuff, because I've got
Speaker 2: so many questions and he loves to talk about it,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's a rousing campfire discussion, and he goes, oh,
Speaker 2: I wrote a review of that one time, an unfavorable review,
Speaker 2: and I said, oh, my god. So but nonetheless, and again,
Speaker 2: I think it was probably because there was some argument
Speaker 2: or least suggestion in the book that perhaps humans are
Speaker 2: more closely related to orangutans than we might suspect, or
Speaker 2: that then the current evidence points to because of some
Speaker 2: sort of anatomical detail in the cranium or the skull
Speaker 2: or actually the roof of the mouth somehow, where the
Speaker 2: sinus is going at this particular place, and no other
Speaker 2: ape species but humans and orangutans have this. I don't know.
Speaker 2: The anatomy of it was a little bit above my head,
Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure, that's probably what you've had some
Speaker 2: disagreement with.
Speaker 1: So I need to read that book. I have not
Speaker 1: read that one. That sounds like a very interesting book,
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. Well, I've got a copy of it.
Speaker 2: You know, if you when you're out for squatch Fest,
Speaker 2: I can lend your mind if you want.
Speaker 1: Well, if it's on candle, I'll by. I really love
Speaker 1: reading on Kendle because I can read anytime anywhere, Like
Speaker 1: I've probably got two hundred and fifty books on my
Speaker 1: Kindle app. And the other thing is I do a
Speaker 1: lot of reading at night because like when we go
Speaker 1: to bed, I'm usually not very sleepy, so I'll get
Speaker 1: like an hour hour and a half of reading in
Speaker 1: before I actually fall asleep. And I don't need a
Speaker 1: light because it's on the phone, you know. So that's
Speaker 1: kind of nice.
Speaker 2: But I don't like reading on my phone or my tablet.
Speaker 2: I'd like to have something in my hands.
Speaker 1: I love the Kindle, like I said, because you can
Speaker 1: highlight portions you know that you find particularly useful or meaningful,
Speaker 1: and then it saves all your highlights and then when
Speaker 1: you're done with the book, you can export it.
Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can just email it to yourself and like, oh,
Speaker 1: here's all the high lights with references, so I can go, oh,
Speaker 1: here's all the portions of that book I found particularly meaningful.
Speaker 1: And then if I ever open up the book again,
Speaker 1: I can just go straight to my highlights and go
Speaker 1: back to those portions of the book when I reread
Speaker 1: it or something like that. But it's just it's super
Speaker 1: convenient that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see the convenient part of it, But
Speaker 2: there's something about the smell of a book I can't get.
Speaker 2: I can't let lousive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if something comes out new, I'll buy it on
Speaker 1: Kindles so I can have it like the second it
Speaker 1: comes out. But physical books, I love used bookstores because
Speaker 1: you know, like if I'm on Amazon, it's because I'm
Speaker 1: looking for something specific, like oh, I heard so and
Speaker 1: so just release such and such today, I'll go buy
Speaker 1: it at the bookstore. I'm like, I'm going to look
Speaker 1: at every title in you know, the Natural Sciences, and
Speaker 1: if something jumps out at me that I've never seen
Speaker 1: or never heard of or that sounds relevant. That's how
Speaker 1: I discover things is through the used bookstore. So most
Speaker 1: of the stuff like I'll order new books if it's
Speaker 1: not available in kindel format. But like, I've got tons
Speaker 1: of books, but most of them I get it used bookstore.
Speaker 1: It drives my wife because I have to go into
Speaker 1: every used bookstore that we encounter on the road because
Speaker 1: I'm like, you never know what you're gonna find. And
Speaker 1: you know, I found assigned Krantz book in Juno, Alaska. Oh,
Speaker 1: I found a signed first edition of Jane Goodall's in
Speaker 1: the Shadow of Man for a dollar. I guess they
Speaker 1: didn't they didn't know it was And so I went
Speaker 1: to my favorite bookstore in Nashville the other day and
Speaker 1: I found a signed copy of Ghost Grizzlies, which already had,
Speaker 1: but it was only three bucks, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'll get a second copy of Ghost Grizzlies because it's
Speaker 1: signed to like Bob and Irma whoever they are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but if you're ever at a bookstore used bookstore and
Speaker 1: you see a book, you already have check the inside
Speaker 1: cover before you go, Oh, I don't need that. I
Speaker 1: already have a copy because it's it's happened to me
Speaker 1: multiple times now.
Speaker 3: So you don't find those old big foot books like
Speaker 3: that anymore. That everyone goes on eBay, looks at the price.
Speaker 3: Now they go, oh, I can check up the price
Speaker 3: of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. All the cool used big Foot books I got
Speaker 1: were in weird places. I mean I found Dehindon's book
Speaker 1: in North Georgia, which I thought was kind of an
Speaker 1: odd place. I found several cool green John Green books
Speaker 1: in Montana and Wyoming. And then when I moved to Washington,
Speaker 1: I worked next door to a used bookstore and I
Speaker 1: introduced myself to the guy and I was like, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, here's what I do. And he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: if we get these in all the time. If anything
Speaker 1: comes in, I will just put it aside because I said, look,
Speaker 1: if I don't have it, I'll buy it. And he
Speaker 1: never got one in in the three years that I
Speaker 1: lived there. I used to go to Pike's Place. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a cool used bookstore there. Never saw Bigfoot books.
Speaker 1: So people don't let those things go very easily.
Speaker 2: Minty Scott Minton a good friend of mine. He's the
Speaker 2: guy with the record store in Sandy and actually he
Speaker 2: got customers from her podcast. Somebody came in and came
Speaker 2: to the museum and they were going to go to
Speaker 2: the Scott's Record Store next because they heard us talking
Speaker 2: about it on the podcast. How cool is that?
Speaker 3: That's cool? Yeah.
Speaker 2: He goes to the Sandy Library because we live in
Speaker 2: Sandy's and so does See. He goes to the Sandy
Speaker 2: Library all the time because they often sell use books.
Speaker 2: And he found an old copy of a Bontable Snowman
Speaker 2: legend comes to life back there with a new cover
Speaker 2: adit by lovingly put on by the librarian there and
Speaker 2: with a laminated cover and all this sort of stuff,
Speaker 2: and got it for like a dollar or something like that,
Speaker 2: and and he was he picked it and he goes,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, what is this? And the library says,
Speaker 2: I knew somebody would love that one. Yeah. I picked
Speaker 2: Upman's I think it was Weevelman's said that his book
Speaker 2: on sea serpents. I got one of those at the
Speaker 2: library sale one time too. Another fantastic resource for use books. Yeah,
Speaker 2: stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 2: Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: You know, you know we're we're forgetting Is I still
Speaker 3: love the Locals by Tom Powell? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tom, Tom? Yeahs as paranormal as Tom has eventually
Speaker 2: ended up That book was was groundbreaking in its time,
Speaker 2: and I think it may have been the first book
Speaker 2: to mention this idea of habituation.
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 2: I think it was the first that wasn't really out
Speaker 2: there until Tom started writing about the Jay Halis project,
Speaker 2: which was a BFRO project back in around two thousand,
Speaker 2: a very successful project that frankly didn't get the its
Speaker 2: credit because Tom, through the benefactor Richard Hucklebridge, who's still
Speaker 2: out there kicking somewhere southern California somewhere, they bought all
Speaker 2: this fancy IR night vision camera stuff that is archaic
Speaker 2: by today's standards. They set that stuff up and lo
Speaker 2: and behold, they actually got really really poor quality photographs
Speaker 2: of a Sasquatch. I think it's the first time that
Speaker 2: has ever happened with night vision and stuff. And we
Speaker 2: have a whole display devoted to that those photographs. There's
Speaker 2: two photographs that they got. We have a whole display
Speaker 2: in the NABC devoted to that, including the original equipment
Speaker 2: they used to get it.
Speaker 1: Oh, another book, I have to mention, I can't believe
Speaker 1: I've forgot it. It's just my other favorite mystery A
Speaker 1: worldwide book is Gregory Forth's Images of the Wild Man
Speaker 1: in Southeast.
Speaker 3: So that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 1: That book is so and it's unfortunate that that was
Speaker 1: published through the University Press because you know, he's got
Speaker 1: his new sort of popular nonfiction book between Ape and
Speaker 1: Human but his prior book in two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: Images of the Wild Man in Southeast Asia, is amazing.
Speaker 1: But even brand new, it's at University Press prices, so
Speaker 1: it's like sixty dollars and even the kindle version is
Speaker 1: around the same price, which is fairly ridiculous, but that's
Speaker 1: what you see all University Press books set up. But
Speaker 1: it is absolutely worth reading. It's extremely well written. That's
Speaker 1: one of my favorites.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you know it's a great great resources chat,
Speaker 3: our men's historical Bigfoot, all the he's got like eighteen
Speaker 3: hundred Newtrap articles pre nineteen seventy I think or something
Speaker 3: like that, and there you don't talk about it's like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a great book.
Speaker 3: It's like, was it like twelve hundred pages or something.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's thick.
Speaker 2: It's pretty great. We have some displays in the museum,
Speaker 2: but I don't go like full bor on those because well,
Speaker 2: people have done it better, you know, Like why would
Speaker 2: I put out like a handful of a newspaper articles
Speaker 2: for people to see when there's entire books devote it
Speaker 2: to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you guys ever read Jean Paul Debonat's The
Speaker 1: Asian wild Man?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I could remember the other's name.
Speaker 2: We have it on We have it on the shelves
Speaker 2: here in the museum. Actually, oh, very cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just have the kindle version. I've never found
Speaker 1: a physical copy, but maybe when I'm out there for
Speaker 1: squadh Fast, I'll pick up one since you have it
Speaker 1: on the shelf, because I love that book. That was
Speaker 1: a really well written book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can spend the lifetime talking about this, but
Speaker 2: you know it is coming to the end of our
Speaker 2: hour here.
Speaker 3: I forget. I'm forgetting. I know, I'm forgetting like probably
Speaker 3: two books that I really like that I'm spacing.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, maybe that's a good topic for a
Speaker 2: future one. Then it's just what when don't we hop
Speaker 2: on and that we can focus on a couple different books.
Speaker 3: We hit the big ones.
Speaker 2: I think we did. I think we hit most of
Speaker 2: the big ones. I'm sure there's some that we're forgetting,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I like Roger Patty. I think that's
Speaker 2: a must read. For example. Yeah, Ken Garrethart's book on
Speaker 2: Sasquatch or Bigfoot there is one of the best ones
Speaker 2: written recently. That's a fantastic overview of the subject in general.
Speaker 2: There's all then, as far as the regional stuff goes,
Speaker 2: the British Columbia stuff that features Bob Timmins in the
Speaker 2: cover that was put together by Chris Murphy, or Steinberg's books,
Speaker 2: there's just so many that we can mention and go
Speaker 2: deeply into.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the doc in West Virginia, Rush Jones, he's like his,
Speaker 3: like I enjoy his.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just too many books to go into. But
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe a future episode, if our listeners
Speaker 2: would like to hear us go on about this sort
Speaker 2: of stuff, we can go maybe do a deep dive
Speaker 2: into a handful of these, you know, that might be
Speaker 2: a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a great first meeting of Clubo's Book Club.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to call it Monster Piece Theater, except
Speaker 2: that the Sesame Street already grab that one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can guess what you guys want to hear.
Speaker 3: You can just let us know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's any thing about being members. You have
Speaker 2: direct access to us. Essentially, you can write on Patreon.
Speaker 2: Matt Prut reads every single thing and he pokes us
Speaker 2: about us like, hey, this is an idea, or that
Speaker 2: this person said this, this person said that. We get
Speaker 2: emails that were sent by you guys to the thing.
Speaker 2: When Matt says, oh, the guys would love it, he
Speaker 2: sends it to us. We get the information that you
Speaker 2: give us, So I want to encourage all of our
Speaker 2: members to give us more information. This is your podcast.
Speaker 2: You know, we are here specifically for you, and so
Speaker 2: what can we do for you? How can we best
Speaker 2: serve you? We are always looking for ideas because we're
Speaker 2: four years in Man, it's hard to scramble for new
Speaker 2: stuff every single week. But we're doing it, and I
Speaker 2: think we're doing it pretty well. But we could always
Speaker 2: use some help, and we might as well get help
Speaker 2: from the people who care about the podcast more than
Speaker 2: anyone except for perhaps us three and that's you. Guys
Speaker 2: are members. We thank you for everything that they've been doing,
Speaker 2: and we can certainly use a little bit more help.
Speaker 2: By what's your idea? What would you like to have
Speaker 2: us talk about what topic do you think we should do,
Speaker 2: what guests should we have on anything like that. We
Speaker 2: may not do your ideas, but we will listen and
Speaker 2: consider every single one.
Speaker 3: Well, I guess sit then for us this week.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much members. We really do appreciate it.
Speaker 3: All right, folks. Well that's another episode of Beyond, Bigfoot
Speaker 3: and Beyond, and so y'all till next week. Keep it beyond, Squatchy, thanks.
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