WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:03.040 This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:06.080 AM six forty the Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show on demand 3 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:12.359 on the iHeartRadio app KFI AM six forty. You have 4 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:15.199 Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy 5 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:17.600 Walsh Show. You know, I love to talk about the 6 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:20.399 science of love. Not a lot of love in the air, 7 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:23.239 bombs in the air. Instead, we're going to talk about 8 00:00:23.679 --> 00:00:28.199 how what's going on internationally and on our news channels 9 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:34.039 it might be impacting our mental health. Also, should universities 10 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:38.880 be teaching students how to love the science of love? 11 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.119 And later in the show, my take on the new 12 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:45.039 romantic comedy. The material lists some things they got really 13 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.560 right and a few things they didn't get wrong but 14 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:51.719 they forgot. I want to welcome Sam. It's good to 15 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:55.320 see you, Samseyah. I'm usually having rat Wohl there. Yeah, no, 16 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:58.719 I took over. I'm here. Hi, fabulous, Hi, and you 17 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:01.359 have someone working with you. Hi, Nikki, she's not on 18 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:04.640 my good How are you, Nicky. Nice to meet you, 19 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:07.359 to see you look good. Thank you well, thank you. 20 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:08.959 That really means a lot of a woman of a 21 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:12.959 certain age. Heather Brooker. Always good to see you, my dear. Hi, 22 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:15.159 you too happy to be here. You've had a busy 23 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:19.760 couple of days, I'm sure, and you know there's going 24 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:22.519 to be a moment. I swear, No, I don't swear 25 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.359 it's not really going to happen. But I said to myself, 26 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:28.560 you know, I prepared all this wonderful content to talk 27 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:30.519 about on my show, and I bet you I'm going 28 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:32.000 to say, hey, we have to go to the newsroom 29 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:33.640 with Heather Brooker because something's happening. 30 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:35.599 I would not be surprised. 31 00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:37.799 But let's knock on wood just in case. Let's knock 32 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:40.519 on wood. Because I'm a nice, easy Sunday evening, right, 33 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:42.879 and plenty of my listeners want to hear more about 34 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:46.040 the science of love. Let us just as a side note, 35 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:47.840 I want to hear more about what you think about 36 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.439 the materialist. Yes, I'm very excited for that. I went 37 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:52.280 with a group of girlfriends because I had to. So 38 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:55.239 what happened is I got called from all these reporters 39 00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:58.040 like on Newsweek and Yahoo and whatever to comment on it, 40 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:00.519 and I hadn't seen it. So I his friand like 41 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:03.640 watching trailers and reading synopsis and trying to give them 42 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:06.000 some smart sounding things, and then I went to see 43 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:07.799 it and I was like, Oh, there's so much more 44 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:10.240 I could be saying. I'll be saying it a little while. 45 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:12.199 But first we do have to talk about our mental 46 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:18.439 health after the bombing in Iran. First of all, I 47 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:20.520 have a feeling that I like to call not like 48 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:24.479 to call I have to call cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance. 49 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:27.800 I have a great deal of empathy and compassion. And 50 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.560 while I am very patriotic, I am an American in 51 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:33.360 some ways as an immigrant, I feel like I'm more 52 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.280 American than Americans because I actually had to stand up 53 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:38.840 I think George Bush was in charge then, and to 54 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:43.199 swear to you know, raise take up arms for my country. 55 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:45.599 There were words I had to say that you know, 56 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:48.719 many Americans are just born you have to but they 57 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:52.719 don't never have to actually take an oath, and I 58 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:57.560 had to take an oath as to become a patriotic American. 59 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:01.800 I'm also a Canadian, so therefore I have great empathy 60 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:03.840 and compassion for what's been going on in the last 61 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:08.439 six months or so in Canada. And I also have many, 62 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:12.159 many friends who are Persian and In fact, just last 63 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:15.240 week I spoke at the Persian or the Iranian Jewish 64 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:19.439 Iranian Association. Blah blah blah blah. There are a lot 65 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:22.599 of words, but it's a beautiful ballroom, and I met 66 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:25.199 some fabulous women and so many k if I listeners. 67 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:26.879 They came up to me and said, oh my god, 68 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:31.599 I love your show. It was really wonderful. My therapist 69 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:37.360 of twenty seven years on and off is Persian. When 70 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.319 I hear a Persian accent, because you know, therapy is 71 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:43.439 kind of like reparenting. It is like hearing my mother talk. 72 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:46.840 You know, I have this warm affinity and I asked her, 73 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:49.520 you know, does she have relatives over there? She worried, 74 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:52.439 and she said, everybody in my country is my brother 75 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.560 and sister. And that is how I feel about Canadians too, 76 00:03:55.599 --> 00:03:57.800 and that is how I feel about Americans. So this 77 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:02.319 is why I'm experiencing cognitive dissonance, and that is the 78 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:06.360 ability to hold opposing feelings at the same time in 79 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:09.879 your head. You see, many people feel like they can't 80 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:12.919 stand the feeling of being on the fence and not knowing, 81 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:17.120 so they grab one feeling and hold it tight and 82 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:21.759 literally reject the other. Feeling when it's okay to feel 83 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:27.000 it all. And even when war isn't in our backyard, 84 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:31.439 it can certainly be alive in our minds. It can 85 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:36.160 quietly impact our mental health. So when the news broke 86 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:41.879 last night about the bombing in Iran, many Americans and 87 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.720 definitely including me, turned to our phones. We were scrolling, refreshing, 88 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:48.680 we were doomed, scrolling. Even this morning, I was up 89 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:52.480 there going. I kept saying, Julio, my husband. He's on 90 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:56.959 with Farreed Zakaria and CBS. Margaret Brenner, by the way, 91 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.120 she's so official. I love her. I love her. She 92 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.120 had Marco Rubio, and he was trying to not answer 93 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:04.360 our questions, and I kept saying, go to Fox, see 94 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:05.759 what they're saying, see what they're saying. I want to 95 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:08.399 see it. I need to see every side of a 96 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:11.759 question and a situation. I really think of myself as 97 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:14.399 you know, I hate saying right or left or centralist, 98 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:16.800 none of that. I think of myself as a curious 99 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:20.759 mind who wants as many different facts and opinions as 100 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:23.600 I can get a hold of. So anyway, there was 101 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:26.160 a lot of scrolling, refreshing, doom scrolling, turning, on TV's 102 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:30.680 turning channels, et cetera. According to the American Psychological Association, 103 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:35.079 about seventy percent of US adults report that news in 104 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:39.160 general causes them significant stress. In the case of war, 105 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.399 even far away wars, that stress can manifest in very 106 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:46.319 real ways. It can impact your sleep, It can increase 107 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:51.519 your anxiety, your irritability. If you are susceptible depression, it 108 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.839 can bring on feelings of depression. For people who have 109 00:05:54.959 --> 00:06:00.680 had past trauma, this can reactivate post traumatic stress symptoms. 110 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:01.079 Right. 111 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:05.720 The word for it is vicarious trauma. 112 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:06.399 Right. 113 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:11.240 It's where you feel traumatized, but not by the direct experience, 114 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.959 but by witnessing or hearing the suffering of others. And 115 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:17.879 I'm telling you, with this twenty four hour media coverage 116 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:21.240 and all the social media clips and all people arguing 117 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:24.680 back and forth with their opinions, it's no wonder that 118 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:29.079 our nervous systems cannot find peace today. Before I came 119 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:31.680 to work, I was feeling tired because I took a 120 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.480 killer studio MDR class. If you have never taken Studio MDR. 121 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:37.360 They don't pay me to say anything. I'm just saying 122 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:40.160 it's the best workout on the planet. But you're exhausted afterwards. 123 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:44.160 I laid down, and my heart rate in a laying 124 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:45.920 down position. I don't know if you know, the average 125 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:48.160 heart rate of a human at rash should be between 126 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.600 sixty and seventy beats a minute. I'm in pretty good shape. 127 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:52.879 I wake up in the morning, minds around fifty five. 128 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:56.000 I like that. I laid down and it was seventy 129 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:58.680 eight seventy eight, so I took a whole bunch of 130 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:01.959 deep breaths. I got it down to sixty eight. The 131 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:04.639 funny little aside, I was watching my Apple Watch. It 132 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:06.639 was taking my heart. Right as I was doing my 133 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:09.879 deep breathing, I thought about Julio, and I thought about 134 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:12.439 how much I love him, and it's shot back up again. 135 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.639 Not because he brings me stress, but I think love 136 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:18.720 does make your heart go bit or bad or even 137 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:22.240 five years later. Anyway. We need to do this for 138 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:25.439 our mental health. We need to limit our exposure. We 139 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:28.800 need to turn off all those AutoPlay videos as much 140 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.319 as possible. I mentioned earlier as I was briefly on 141 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:35.000 the Chris Merrill Show, we have to learn to name 142 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:38.120 our feelings. When you can give your feelings a name, 143 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:41.720 it takes away the power. And also instead of saying 144 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:47.920 I am mad, say I'm feeling mad. Big difference. One 145 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:50.879 is your whole identity and the other is huh, that's 146 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:53.680 a feeling, it's a messenger. Wonder what I should do 147 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:56.279 with that? Right? How can I not turn that into 148 00:07:56.319 --> 00:08:00.120 negative behavior? Hey, there are things you can do that 149 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:04.680 are good that will relieve your stress. Donate to humanitarian organizations, 150 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:07.399 Write to your elected officials if you have an opinion, 151 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:12.759 attend a piece for vigil, do something that helps other people. 152 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:20.839 And like I did today, use some grounding practices deep breathing, nature, walks, prayer, 153 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:26.920 hugging your loved ones, hugging your pets. Right, so, even 154 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:30.600 though the bombs are falling thousands of miles away, I 155 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:34.679 know those shockwaves can ripple through all of our minds. 156 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:37.759 I want you to be gentle with yourself this week 157 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:42.919 and everyone in your family. Forgive people stress. Response isn't weakness, Okay, 158 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.600 it's really a sign of empathy. When we come back, 159 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:52.279 we're going to have one of my mentors and role models, 160 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.879 doctor Kevin Vulcan from California State University, Channel Islands. He's 161 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:00.799 got some things to say about how war. He actually 162 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:06.360 teaches a course on Nazi psychology, but how war actually 163 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:10.799 helps leaders gain more love and more power. Let's talk 164 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:13.159 about this phenomenon and a few other things before we 165 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:15.919 come back. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh 166 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:19.559 Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on 167 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:24.679 the iHeartRadio app KFI AM six forty. You've got Doctor 168 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:26.879 Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. 169 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:29.159 As we continue to talk a little bit about our 170 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:32.759 mental health in the face of the bombing in Iran, 171 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:35.519 I wanted to invite on the show someone who I 172 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:37.799 consider to be a mentor and someone who I really respect. 173 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:42.360 You've heard him before, psychology professor doctor Kevin Vulcan from 174 00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:46.000 California State University, Channel Islands. Hi, doctor Kevin, how are. 175 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:49.200 You, Hi, Wendy, how are you doing good? 176 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:54.639 I know you teach some things about leaders, the psychology 177 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:58.600 of leaders and how followers follow them. We were talking earlier, 178 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.879 and you have a particular take on what's going on 179 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:06.240 and how it can actually help the leaders of both countries. 180 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:07.120 Can you explain that. 181 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:12.039 Well? I think you know, from a psychology point of view, 182 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:16.759 you know there's certain psychological patterns that tend to play 183 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:18.919 out over and over and over again anytime we have 184 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.080 conflicts like this, and these things have been going on 185 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:24.360 for a long time, especially with Iran and the United 186 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:27.480 States and Iran and Israel, and I think knowing those 187 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:29.960 and being aware of those can be something that can 188 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:30.559 be helpful. 189 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:32.879 And what are the things that have been going. 190 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:36.320 On, Well, there's a lot of you know, again, there's 191 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:39.000 a lot of external things in the world, actual real 192 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.240 life things that are out in the real world that 193 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.440 are you know, important concerns and things people should be 194 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:47.200 thinking about. And people have varying opinions on those kinds 195 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:49.480 of things. You know, whether we should have bombed Iran 196 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:51.399 or that we shouldn't have, or was this the right 197 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:52.960 time to do it, or should we have waited and 198 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.679 tried diplomacy. Those are all real world concerns. But from 199 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:58.559 the point of view of psychology, you know, we have 200 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:01.039 a lot of things that we call and say ecology projection, 201 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:02.720 where we take all the things that we don't like 202 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:06.120 about ourselves and we project them onto the other guy 203 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:08.240 or the other group, and the other group does the 204 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:11.679 same thing to us simultaneously, and then we have ourselves 205 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:15.120 mutually projecting these negative things on each other, and that 206 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:17.600 allows us to you humanize the other, to make the 207 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:22.200 other group somehow, you know, a target for violence, those 208 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:24.679 kind of things. And I think, you know, given the 209 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.039 history of Iran and America, there's a lot of that 210 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:28.519 going on. There's certainly a lot of that going on 211 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:32.240 with Israel and Iran and other places as well. And 212 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:34.720 I think one thing to be on the outlook for, 213 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.799 looking out for is the idea of, you know, how, 214 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:40.399 you know, to pull back those projections. Can we look 215 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:44.919 at the situation going on without projecting our bad stuff, 216 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:46.799 things that we don't like about ourselves on to the 217 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:50.039 other person. And this is the job that I think diplomats, 218 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:53.000 you know, have to take on. And this is very 219 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.279 hard because the diplomats act from a kind of rational 220 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.120 actor model. You know. 221 00:11:57.519 --> 00:11:59.440 I want to interrupt you to help, but to give 222 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:03.399 people like firm example, you're talking about projection, and I'm 223 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.480 hearing the theory of Carl Jung's shadow. When I was 224 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:11.120 an undergrad in psychology, our teacher had a really great 225 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:13.080 little exercise. So I'm going to teach you about Carl 226 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:14.639 Jung's shadow today and what I want you to do 227 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:16.279 is take out a piece of paper, and I want 228 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:19.759 you to write the name of somebody who you absolutely despise, 229 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:22.720 somebody you completely hate. It might be a coworker, a friend, 230 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.799 a family member, but somebody you hate. And then I 231 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:27.159 want you to list all the things you hate about them. 232 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:29.799 And then once we've done that, she said, now I'd 233 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:32.360 like you to erase the name at the top of 234 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:35.639 the page and write your own name in, because that's 235 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:36.399 your shadow. 236 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:40.279 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's a good exercise. 237 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:40.639 Yeah. 238 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:44.799 And in union psychology to call it a shadow in, 239 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:47.440 you know, in other psychology you might call it a projection, 240 00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:49.840 or it could be a negative projection. Can also be 241 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:53.200 a positive projection too, right, But then you get these 242 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:55.720 kind of dynamics going on. I think one thing for 243 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:58.360 diplomats is to not think of things rationally. If we 244 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.399 do this, they'll do this, but also to own their 245 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.799 own projection, to own their own shadow, you know, and 246 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:07.399 then go into the then go into the negotiation. That's 247 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:09.399 very difficult to do. And this is where I think 248 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:14.279 psychologists have a role to play in international relations and negotiations. 249 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:16.799 I wish when they got together with the Iranians, and 250 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:19.320 the Israelis and the Americans and then whoever else is 251 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:22.519 spoken at. My wish would be they would have somebody 252 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:25.960 who had some psychological training in the room with them 253 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:27.759 to help with this kind of stuff. 254 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:29.799 Yeah, and you say they should become aware of their 255 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:32.120 own shadow. But the truth is, if you have what 256 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:36.159 it takes to become a national leader, you probably don't 257 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:39.039 have a lot of insight because it is the narcissism 258 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.960 and the alligator skin that helps you get there. Right. 259 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:45.039 So, yes, yes, there aren't. 260 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:48.120 Many empathetic leaders, even though their job is to protect us. 261 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:49.159 It's interesting, huh. 262 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:53.759 Well, some narcissists, not all, but some narcissists, you know, 263 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:57.200 they they are very good at projecting their negative stuff 264 00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:58.799 on other people. And then what they do is they 265 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.840 can they can rally the people around this stuff. And 266 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:04.919 you know, in in in the book that I just 267 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:07.679 wrote on human aggression, war and genocide, you know, we 268 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:12.080 talk about two things chosen glories and chosen traumas and 269 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:14.759 show glories where you have some kind of national thing, 270 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:16.799 we did this great thing. You know, a good example 271 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:19.080 would be landing on the moon something like that. You know, 272 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:21.320 we did just great things in nation. We all rally 273 00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:23.399 around that, and then the other thing would be some 274 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:26.159 kind of trauma that's happened. You know, we got bombed 275 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.480 or you know, a good example in America's nine to eleven, 276 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:30.960 you know, and we all rallied around that, and it 277 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.360 brought us all together. And a lot of times, leaders, 278 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:37.639 especially in arcisistic leaders will will will use these things 279 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:40.159 to rally people now, especially when they're having a little 280 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:42.600 bit of trouble. So one way you could look at 281 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.480 and maybe I'm you know, I'm speculating here to tell 282 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:46.879 you with a grain of salt. But one way you 283 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:48.720 could look at the Uranian thing is, you know, I'm 284 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:51.240 I'm running the United States, I'm the president. You know, 285 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.320 my polls are not doing very well. I'm done some 286 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.720 deeply unpopular policies with regard to immigration, and you know, 287 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:01.480 you know, disappear ring people et cetera, et cetera, who 288 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:04.320 aren't illegal immigrants, all this kind of stuff going on. 289 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:06.679 And you know, but if I start a war with Iran, 290 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:09.120 now I've done this great thing. We've had this great 291 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.879 military victory, and this is a chosen glory, right, we 292 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:15.399 can all rally around the chosen glory. Then my guess 293 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.759 is what will happen and then just speculating again, Iran 294 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.360 does some kind of retaliation. Americans are killed, and now 295 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:25.519 the leader uses that to rally people around the chosen trauma. 296 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:29.519 And I think, unfortunately that is something that I would 297 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:32.879 guess there's a very big possibility of that happening. And 298 00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:34.960 you'll see if that does happen, that it will be 299 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:38.480 an attempt to rally everybody around the chosen trauma. The 300 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.279 chosen traumas are more powerful than the chosen glories. 301 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.120 Oh yeah, I think of nine to eleven. Now, it 302 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:46.080 brought us all together over this trauma, right, we didn't 303 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:46.559 choose it. 304 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:49.519 And yeah, yep, and it rallies people together. And then 305 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:52.200 guess what everybody forgets about the immigration policies and the 306 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.759 other things that are deeply popular, you know, with the 307 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:57.759 American public right now. And you know, that's one way 308 00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:59.480 you can look at this, and you know, you know, 309 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:02.279 if you look back in history, you know, starting wars 310 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:04.919 has been a way that you know, presidents and other 311 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.559 leaders have used to deal with these kinds of you know, 312 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.240 deeply unpopular you know, times when the population isn't like them, 313 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:15.039 or the economy's gone bad go out and start a war, 314 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.559 and it's you know, you can ramp up production, you 315 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.679 can help the economy, you know. So you know, if 316 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:22.519 you're a little paranoid like I can be some time, 317 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:24.320 you start thinking about these kind of things, you know, 318 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:26.279 this is a you know, you've got a crisis, say 319 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:27.840 you go out and start a war, and that seems 320 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.000 to take care of it. The problem that we have, 321 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.279 we saw this with the Bush administration in the Iraq War, 322 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.039 is that it doesn't work very well in the Middle East. 323 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:38.320 These strategies have not worked very well in the Middle East, 324 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:42.720 and people who have gotten involved in wars I think 325 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.600 I think a lot of the conflicts are are very historical. 326 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:50.399 They they they they They've been around for a long time, 327 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:53.200 you know, I mean, you know, back to Biblical times 328 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:54.440 if you want to go back to that far, but 329 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:57.360 certainly back to when the British were involved. And yeah, 330 00:16:57.399 --> 00:16:59.799 you can you can trace back bad things in the 331 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:02.320 world role usually where the British were around. You can 332 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:04.079 chase a lot of stuff in the Middle East back 333 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:06.279 to the British and you know, it's been going on 334 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:09.079 for a long time, and you know, these are deeply 335 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.440 intrinsed things. You know, you have lots of you know, 336 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.079 religion is involved with it. You know, the a lot 337 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.319 of these are existential questions for the Israelis, existential question 338 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.960 you know, of their own existence and their right to 339 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:23.039 exist and have their own homeland and these kinds of things. 340 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.880 Then you have you know light likewise, you know Palestinians 341 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:29.160 and other people, and so I think, you know, Americans, 342 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.640 we don't understand the psychology of what's going on in 343 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:34.759 the Middle East very well. And I think we get 344 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:37.640 into these things thinking, you know, like an American, like 345 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:40.319 irrational American, and then we realize there's a lot of 346 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.240 stuff below the surface that we haven't dealt with. 347 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.359 In fact, we have a very short period of time left, 348 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.039 doctor Vulcan. But I do want to ask you this, 349 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:51.559 what role does religiosity pay in play in aggression? You know, 350 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:53.720 it's one thing if you're fighting over land or fighting 351 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:58.279 over resources like oil, But when someone has a religious conviction, 352 00:17:58.400 --> 00:17:59.519 how does that change the game. 353 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:06.240 My bias is that I think leaders will used religion 354 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:09.599 to rally people around and to use it as a 355 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.720 kind of a point of identity that we identify as 356 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.799 a certain religion. Therefore, if somebody says something against our religion, 357 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:16.960 we need to go out and get them. We again 358 00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:19.559 project onto them. I think if you talk about just 359 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:23.400 religious people in general, like just regular people, civilians living 360 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:26.279 in whatever country, everybody just you know, it's kind of 361 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.359 like the same. Everybody wants, you know, the best for 362 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:31.119 their family. They want to raise their family, want to 363 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:33.160 be comfortable, they want to be able to have a 364 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:38.200 spiritual dimension of their life. So I separate that kind 365 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:40.640 of religion from the religion that the leaders use to 366 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:44.519 rally people to get them their negative projections onto other people. 367 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:47.400 And so that's how I'm seeing religion, how it plays 368 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.000 out as a form of getting people to put their 369 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.480 negative projections on another group. And I don't think that's 370 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:55.039 especially healthy, and I don't think that's especially what most 371 00:18:55.079 --> 00:19:00.519 religions actually advocate. If you actually read Christianity, read Islam, it's. 372 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:05.680 All about love and family and caring. Yes, doctor Kevin 373 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:08.720 will can thank you so much from psychology professor from 374 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:12.759 California State University, Channel Islands. We'll keep close to you 375 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:15.119 in the next few weeks as things transpire because you 376 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:17.720 always have so much insight. Thank you very much for 377 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:18.640 being with us. 378 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:20.680 Thank you, Wendy. Always good to talk to you. 379 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.240 Coming up next, I'd like to turn things if we can, 380 00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:27.079 to the science of love. I did go to see 381 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:30.279 the movie The Materialist this week. It's the latest romantic 382 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.880 comedy and I've got some things to say about it. 383 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:35.200 Let's talk about it when we come back. 384 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.839 You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI 385 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:42.279 AM six forty. 386 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.599 KFI AM six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. 387 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:48.480 This is the. 388 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:51.759 Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. I want to remind everybody. I'm 389 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:55.160 a psychology professor at cal State Channel Islands, and I 390 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:58.880 am obsessed with the science of love. I've written three 391 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:02.680 books on relationship. I'm actually deep into my fourth book 392 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:06.759 writing it right now. I wrote a dissertation on attachment theory, 393 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.839 and I am obsessed with the science of love. So 394 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.359 when a romantic comedy comes out and reporters are calling 395 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:16.400 me wanting me to comment on it, I have to 396 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:19.799 see it. You should see it too. It's cute, Okay, 397 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.599 It's called The Materialist and it's in theaters right now. 398 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.039 So the story is very simple. A New York City matchmaker, 399 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:29.720 she herself is kind of emotionally guarded. She's looking at 400 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.119 her clients as pieces of meat, in the sense of 401 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.200