WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.319 The Coca Cola Company, cure of Doctor Pepper and Pepsi 2 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.799 co are bringing consumers more choices with less sugar than 3 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:10.679 ever before, from sparkling, flavored and bottled waters to zero 4 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:14.720 sugar sports drinks, teas and sodas. Consumers are taking advantage 5 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:18.399 of these choices. In fact, nearly sixty percent of beverages 6 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:22.399 sold contains zero sugar. To learn more of visit balanceus 7 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:23.079 dot org. 8 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:30.399 Okay, round two, name something that's not boring laundry, a 9 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:33.000 book club, computer solitaire. 10 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:40.159 Huh oh, Sorry, we were looking for Chumbuck Casino to chum. 11 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:43.079 That's right, Chumbucasino dot com as over one hundred casino 12 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:45.439 style games joined today and play for free for your 13 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:47.320 chance to redeem some serious prizes. 14 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:53.079 Chum Chumbucasino dot com eighty plus start the conditions of 15 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:54.000 blue website retails. 16 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:57.439 Hello, it is Ryan, and we could all use an 17 00:00:57.479 --> 00:00:59.719 extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we just to 18 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:02.679 make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, 19 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:05.439 counting or steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. That 20 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:07.959 is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino. 21 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:11.400 Chumpbuck Casino has all your favorite social casino style games. 22 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:15.560 You can play for free anytime anywhere with daily bonuses. 23 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:18.120 That's your brighten your day lowe actually a lot, So 24 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:21.519 sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. That's Chumbuck 25 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:22.439 Casino dot com. 26 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:25.000 No necessary d where everyboy lost in terms and conditions 27 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:25.200 of eating. 28 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:28.200 Plus with the Lucky land slots, you can get lucky 29 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:29.560 just about anywhere. 30 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:33.280 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 31 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:35.239 weather's fine, but we're just gonna circle up here a 32 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:38.519 while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. It's 33 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:41.159 just these cash prizes add up quick. So I suggest 34 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:43.200 you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and 35 00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:44.319 start getting lucky. 36 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.079 Play for free at Lucky landslats dot com. Are you 37 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:51.799 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void We're prohibited by Law 38 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:55.519 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 39 00:01:56.120 --> 00:02:08.639 Radio, you are now listening to True Murder, the most 40 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:12.039 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 41 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:18.319 have written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. 42 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:23.039 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 43 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:27.240 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 44 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:31.199 your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 45 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:46.520 Good Evening. This episode of True Murder is brought to 46 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:52.639 you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the easiest way to create 47 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:56.960 a beautiful website, blog, or online store for you and 48 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:02.719 your ideas. Start a free trile today, no credit card required. 49 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:09.560 Experience Squarespace at squarespace dot com and enter offer code 50 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:17.400 true Murder for a ten percent discount. Doctor Catherine Ramslin 51 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:22.000 wades through the heavy fogs surrounding the Mooor's murders, a 52 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:26.360 series of high profile child killings committed by Scottish sadist 53 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:31.759 Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. Kim Creswell turns the stomach 54 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:36.039 with her unbelievable account of the atrocities committed by Fred 55 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:40.919 and Rosemary West. Carol Ann Davis looks at one of 56 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:45.120 the greatest abuses of police power in English history, the 57 00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:49.120 entrapment of Colin Stagg for the nineteen ninety two ripper 58 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:55.439 style murder of blonde beauty Rachel Nickel on Wimbledon Callman. Meanwhile, 59 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:58.479 the real killer, Robert Knapper, was already confined to broad 60 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.680 Muir Asylum for the nineteen ninety three of vis serration 61 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:05.800 murder of Samantha Bisit and the rape and deadly suffocation 62 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:10.120 of her infant daughter. To top it all off, Edgar 63 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:15.159 Award winning author Burl Bear makes his Serial Killer Quarterly debut, 64 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.639 lending his highly original voice to an intriguing re examination 65 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:22.879 of the murders ascribed to Yorkshire ripper Peter Sutcliffe and 66 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:29.040 the phenomena of homicidal fame. Robert J. Houshelsky, Aaron Elliott 67 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:33.240 and Kim Cresswell also look at three comparably notorious historical 68 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:37.079 London slayers in their pieces on Creepy Old John Christi, 69 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:42.120 Acid Bath Vampire John jor Hate, George Hay and Jack 70 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:49.240 the Ripper suspect and bride poisoner George Smith. The subject 71 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:54.120 of our this evening's episode is serial Killer Quarterly with 72 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:58.720 my special guests, journalist and author and publisher Lee Miller. 73 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:01.560 Welcome back to program, and thank you very much for 74 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:03.519 agreeing to this interview, Lee Miller. 75 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:07.560 It is always a pleasure to have a conversation, whether 76 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:10.560 it's on air or off air with you. Dan Sebanski, 77 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:12.879 Thank you well. 78 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.879 Thank you very much, Lee, Thank you for this first off. 79 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:24.399 Congratulations on a fantastic magazine Serial Killer Quarterly. I want 80 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:28.600 to ask this question, what was the genesis of Grinning 81 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:33.079 Man Press, publisher of this and Serial Killer Quarterly? Tell 82 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:38.319 us what was the genesis of this? Tell us where 83 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.079 the idea came from, why, and tell us about it. 84 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:46.959 Well, I suppose I had just finished writing my second book, 85 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.800 which I had published through a conventional publisher, which is 86 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:55.759 Dunder and Press out of Toronto, and those the books 87 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.240 through selling. Well, I wasn't seeing the kind of returns 88 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:00.879 on it that I really wanted to, and I was 89 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:04.639 this whole idea of having a profession as a writer 90 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:09.160 it seems kind of untenable in the modern age. I'd 91 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:11.639 always been brought up and told that I had, you know, 92 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:14.360 great ability with writing, and so I just thought, you know, 93 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:16.279 as a little kid, hey, you know, this is going 94 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:19.920 to be my future doing this. And it's not that 95 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:23.519 I've been unsuccessful in it. I've had two books published 96 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:26.560 and they're on the shelves of chapters right now. But 97 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:30.480 the returns that you get from it, as you probably know, Dan, 98 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:35.720 they're just so low. So I started to I started 99 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:40.439 to As I was trying to advertise my book online, 100 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:43.120 I was meeting up with other people who were doing 101 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:47.319 this self publishing and doing ebooks, and I'd always stayed 102 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:50.160 away from this ebook thing. To me, books were like 103 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:52.519 a precious thing that I wanted to hold. I was 104 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.000 I'm sick of looking at a screen. I like the 105 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:56.959 fibrius feel of a book in my hand, So it 106 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:00.879 always sort of just ignored that part of it. What 107 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:05.720 happened is I got involved in another project, which, for 108 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:08.839 reasons I won't go into it didn't pan out, where 109 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:11.680 I was going to be part of an ebook anthology, 110 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:14.800 and through that I met all these people who were 111 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:18.079 I found out that were doing really a lot better 112 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:24.759 than myself selling e books and on the topic of 113 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:28.399 true crime, that is. And so I started to think, well, 114 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:31.879 wouldn't it be cool if I could put out this, 115 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:34.959 you know, a magazine, because people are doing e books, 116 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.120 but I'm not seeing e magazines, and I would love 117 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:41.560 it if there was like a high quality detective magazine 118 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.120 type product that we could put out. Now, something was 119 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:48.040 a little bit more class than the sort of pulp 120 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:52.399 semi porn stuff that used to be printed back in 121 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:55.040 you know, the seventies, sixties, fifties, that kind of thing. 122 00:07:55.959 --> 00:08:00.279 And so I just started looking into this possibility. I 123 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:03.600 told a friend about the idea. He actually writes for it, 124 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:09.079 Aaron Elliott, and he said that sounds like a terrific idea. 125 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.519 I'd be happy to finance it. And said, okay, well 126 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:14.959 that's falling into place. I'll just reach out to a 127 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:19.959 couple of friends because I'm a criminologist too, so I 128 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.000 know a few people. So I first spoke with Katherine Ramsland. 129 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:26.399 I said, well, what do you think about writing for this? 130 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:32.600 And Catherine Ramsland agreed, great, good start. I asked Michael Newton, yeah, 131 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:35.240 he wanted in too. Okay, this is starting to really 132 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:40.360 go somewhere now. And then I get Harold Scheckter and 133 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:43.120 Kathy Scott and Burrough Bearer, and the next thing I know, 134 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:52.159 I've got this completely fantastic publication and I've got like 135 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:56.120 the next three years planned out for it. So really 136 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:59.639 this was just a little idea had germinating in my 137 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:02.200 mind after seeing the whole e publishing thing and how 138 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:05.639 it was going, and I was astonished by how many 139 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:08.639 people wanted to participate in and the caliber of writers 140 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:11.399 that we got. And so when an opportunity like that 141 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.559 comes up, you don't go. You know, you take it. 142 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:20.639 Now, you talk about you, you were very encouraged by 143 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.080 all these people coming aboard, a very prestigious group. Indeed, 144 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:28.840 Ramsland and Harold Scheckter and Burl Bear, Kathy Scott, Michael 145 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:33.879 Newton like you mentioned, never mind all the other really 146 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:36.320 good authors that are that were on board on this 147 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:37.840 Serial Killer Quarterly as well. 148 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:42.480 Oh yeah, our staff authors are great too. And I 149 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.480 mean if I mentioned everyone that wrote for there's a 150 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.759 terrific writer, I'd just be like doing a grocery list. 151 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:53.399 But yeah, we have a regular contributing staff authors. Robert Koshowski, 152 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:59.399 Kim Creswell, Aaron elliott I contribute a lot, and I 153 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:04.919 mean even it's always consistently good. I don't think we've 154 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:08.120 had a weak article, and if we ever did, I 155 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:11.960 would have rejected it. But yeah, it's it's a terrific group, 156 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:13.720 very proud of what we're doing. 157 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:17.240 Now, that's a good segue, because I want to know 158 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:22.759 what your criteria is for including stories in this series, 159 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.720 because this is from all this true crime stories, from 160 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.759 all the stories involving murder and killers. You have an 161 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:34.399 incredible selection. So tell us what you're personal because you're 162 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:37.559 you and Aaron are involved in selecting this, I would 163 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:42.960 imagine making the final decision. Tell us what the criteria is, 164 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:46.639 what it is that interests you to include these stories 165 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:48.279 in Serial Killer Quarterly. 166 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:51.840 Okay, well, so the editorial stuff is that's basically all me. 167 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.600 Aaron does most of the financing and a bit of 168 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:57.720 the writing. What happens as I start with a theme. 169 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.919 So the themes we did last year and we did 170 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:06.320 five issues, we did so one per quarter plus a 171 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:11.519 bonus Christmas issue, and so I just came up with 172 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:15.519 some themes that I thought would be interesting. So Issue 173 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:18.799 one was twenty first Century psychos and we looked at 174 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:23.720 how serial murderers in the twenty first century and the 175 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.919 kind of changes that we began to note in the 176 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.919 trends in the twenty first century. Then I looked at 177 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:35.039 one Partners in Pain, which is basically team killers unsolved 178 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:39.600 in North America. That's pretty self explanatory. And then Cruel Britannia, 179 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:42.720 an issue on British killers, and then we did their 180 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:45.399 special Christmas issue was just called Body Harvest, and that 181 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.919 was about prolific American killers. So what I do is 182 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:51.519 I start with a theme, and then I realized that 183 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:56.080 I need say two to three feature lane articles. That's 184 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.879 about seven thousand words. And so what I do is 185 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:04.600 and and then after that usually about four smaller articles 186 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:07.600 thirty five hundred words. So what I do is I 187 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:12.039 approached sort of our stable of authors and I say, hey, 188 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:14.639 here's the issues that we've got coming up this year. 189 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:18.120 Here's some potential stories for them. You can always pick 190 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:21.600 your own if you know of another case, and you know, 191 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:26.000 gladly publish that too. But you know, here's some suggestions, 192 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:30.919 and people are the authors are pretty eager to swoop 193 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:34.200 up those cases and to write about them. So that's 194 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.639 sort of how the process works. 195 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:42.519 Okay, once you have that process, now as a unique 196 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:47.840 publishing entity, publishing company will say, somebody is publishing this 197 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:53.919 in this really interesting time. How does that work in 198 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.799 terms of how much assistance do you have, how much editing, 199 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:01.039 how much content editing, how much free rate you give 200 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.759 to these really experienced authors. 201 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:10.559 Well, I do the editing, and depending on the author, 202 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:16.240 or I mean, sometimes I get the varying qualities of articles. 203 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.240 I mean, they're always good fundamentally, but sometimes I have 204 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.399 to restructure sentences a little bit just to make them 205 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:27.279 more readable, or you know, sometimes this is basic editing 206 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:29.480 I do with all kinds of stuff. You get someone 207 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:31.519 that will start a sentence with the word he four 208 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:34.080 times in a row, and I don't care what the 209 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:38.480 person's credentials are at that point. That is wrong objectively 210 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:43.159 to me. So yeah, I'm changing it. But generally some 211 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.759 authors I have to addit more than others, but I 212 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:53.000 always get something that's fundamentally good from them. The process 213 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:55.799 moves too quickly for me to really ask for their 214 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:59.480 permission to change up what they've done. But then again, 215 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:05.480 it's always cosmetic the editing process. I don't change ideas, 216 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:07.440 and in fact that that's one. The one thing I'll 217 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:09.799 say that I'm so proud of about this magazine and 218 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.759 that I love is that it's almost like a conduit 219 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:18.559 for free expression. That is almost the ethos of Grinning 220 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.519 Man Breast as a company. It's like, you can tell 221 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:24.039 it however you want to, as long as it's good. 222 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.360 So as someone who's read the magazine, you'll will have 223 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:32.240 noticed the tone of say Burl Bearers article on Peter 224 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:39.799 Sutcliffe is much different than say Catherine Ramslin's tone in 225 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:45.080 the Ian Brady and Myra Hinley one. But that it's 226 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:48.440 the allowing of people to use their own voices to 227 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:53.720 look at this topic, this phenomena of serial murder from 228 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:57.200 just as many angles as possible. You know, I like 229 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.360 to think if it is just kind of free speech. 230 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:06.159 Yes, they do have a lot of character injected into 231 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.559 the stories, and you can really see that in in 232 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:12.679 you know, relatively short stories, not what they're accustomed to 233 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.519 in seeing that over an entire books. So that's quite 234 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:19.720 interesting that their character is really predominant in these articles. 235 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:23.440 I wanted to also ask you, there's a lot of 236 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:28.919 type of murder stories and just like this program, which 237 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:32.440 is the most shocking killers in true crime history, what 238 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:37.639 is essentially the tone more so the tone of the 239 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:38.840 stories that you do pick. 240 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.919 Well, sorry, I'm going to need a little bit more 241 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:52.159 than that. When you say tone, well, what I. 242 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:55.000 Say may is more maybe the emphasis. Like I said, 243 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:58.759 what I said is that this program, ideally, I think 244 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:03.200 the audience actually appreciates those stories that are more shocking 245 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:08.320 in nature. So what I'm asking is that I maybe 246 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:11.320 it's a rhetorical question, I thought in that I see 247 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.600 that that is the overall Again, maybe tone is not 248 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.120 the appropriate term, but the. 249 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:23.519 Overall criteria sort of yeah, yeah, more so than yeah, 250 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:28.159 you know what, we don't really Maybe it's because they 251 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:32.279 come across as shocking because they're so effectively written. And 252 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:34.600 I believe that when you write about this topic it 253 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.759 should shock people. I believe if you write about it 254 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:42.679 a nesterial way, that you're essentially lying because this is 255 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:46.759 the I mean, these are shocking behaviors, this's this horrific stuff. So, 256 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:52.639 I mean, good writing is going to horrify people. But 257 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.679 there is say, in the second issue that we did 258 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:58.919 Partners in Pain. For some reason, I found that there 259 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:01.120 is a lot of a lot of these killers that 260 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:04.920 kill in groups tend to be sexual say this, like 261 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:09.400 the torture element really comes out. And when I initially 262 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:12.880 had the authors select the stories that they wanted to 263 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:14.880 do for that, I took a look at the list 264 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.279 and I went, this is too much, like it's too 265 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:21.440 much of the same thing. It's just torture, torture, torture, torture, torture. 266 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.799 And so I actually wrote to a couple of them, 267 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:28.039 and the authors are all very cool too with my 268 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:30.799 editorial choices, and I want to thank them all for that. 269 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.960 While I have this podium and I wrote to a 270 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:37.799 couple of them. I said, look, would you mind if 271 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.920 we shifted that story over to another issue, because I've 272 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:46.359 just got way too much torture in this one. You know, 273 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:50.279 Let's do something else. Let's do someone who kills in 274 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.799 an act focused way for money, to switch things up 275 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.279 a bit, and let's do a necrophilia case. And so 276 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.160 I'd say that what we try to avoid is going 277 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:07.359 for the same kinds of crimes. Yeah, that's that's so. 278 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:10.319 Even though the issue will have an overall theme such 279 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:13.640 as twenty first century psychos or Unsolved in North America 280 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:16.880 or Cruel Britannia, within those issues you will find a 281 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:23.640 whole myriad of different types of serial killers. Really, the 282 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.799 criteria is, you know a serial killer that fits into 283 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:31.720 that overall theme of the issue. Right. 284 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.640 What I introduced in the synopsis is basically a lot 285 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:41.079 of well the information from one of your issues, which 286 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:46.559 is Cruel Britannia and very much I want to go 287 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:50.079 through some of the titles of because really we don't 288 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:53.640 have much time to discuss any of these cases in 289 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:55.960 depth at all, and don't want to leave anything away 290 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.359 because these stories are incredible and if you think you've 291 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:02.359 read like I have a lot of these stories. I 292 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.759 thought I had read the definitive story on this, and 293 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:12.880 to my great surprise and interest, I found incredible information 294 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.079 that I hadn't read before, which is always fascinating to 295 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:18.880 a guy like me thinks he's read at all. So 296 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:23.200 tell us a little bit about cruel Britannia and what 297 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.240 you found. And before we talk about your Jack the 298 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:31.839 Ripper tour in London, So tell us about cruel Britannia. 299 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:36.079 Why you felt it was important to talk about crimes 300 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:38.960 in Great Britain. So tell us about that. 301 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.440 First of all, there's a personal element in that for me, 302 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:47.519 and that I was born in England and immigrated to Canada, 303 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:51.240 and so I would always my parents would always pick 304 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:56.960 up the British newspapers, and I would become familiar with 305 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:01.079 some really horrific cases that were going on over there, 306 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:05.000 which just didn't make headlines really or did weren't like 307 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.079 a big deal in North America. But those were sort 308 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:13.480 of stories that were They became part of my lexicon, 309 00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:16.640 and so I knew there was a lot of really 310 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:21.839 incredible serial killer stories coming from the British Isles, and 311 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:27.279 I wanted to tell those so, and also there's this 312 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:32.599 true crime in the UK and it's just there's such 313 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:35.880 a market for it. It's like there's almost like murder 314 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:40.200 obsessed over there, even the fictional program that programs that 315 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:42.759 come out almost and definitely have something to do with 316 00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:46.160 homicide a lot of the time. So between those two factors, 317 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.480 I thought, yeah, let's do a British issue. Plus we 318 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:51.400 got to admit that title is pretty cool, right, Cruel Britannia. 319 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.720 So between all those factors I was I was like, yeah, 320 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.880 let's do up one of these, and being kind of 321 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:04.400 a walking serial killer encyclopedia, I just went to the 322 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.480 authors and I said, hey, look, here's all these cool cases. 323 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:08.960 Take your pick. 324 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:11.359 Yeah. 325 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:14.720 Well, before we start, too, I want to mention that 326 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:19.559 the photos that you've chosen for this magazine are fantastic, 327 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:22.880 and especially like I'm just a fan of black and 328 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:26.680 white photos. You just add to the eerinus and to 329 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:31.039 the photos themselves, but just tell us what, again, you 330 00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:35.960 had a different you had a different idea in the 331 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:38.279 kind of photos you selected, in the kind of again 332 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:40.880 maybe I'm misusing the word, the kind of tone of 333 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:45.119 those photos that you would include in your in your issues. 334 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.839 Exactly yeah, I'm glad you noticed that the ethos has 335 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:54.480 always been we're not making something that is visual murder porn, 336 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.759 nor would I want the writing to be like that either. 337 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.759 When you look back at those old true detective magazines, 338 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:10.119 they're basically women scantily clad with fearful looks on their 339 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.559 faces being pushed into a trunk by a dominant male, 340 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:19.240 which in itself is I don't know, I'm not really 341 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:24.920 big on censorship, but it's certainly I don't think it's 342 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.880 not something I think it's good, especially when children are 343 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:31.799 reading it. And unfortunately, as we know, there are a 344 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:38.079 lot of serial killers. Their first introduction to females, to 345 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:43.640 sexuality and scantily clad or semi nude female form or 346 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:48.599 sexualized female was in this context through these detective magazines. 347 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.240 And the last thing I wanted to be doing with 348 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.640 this magazine is creating a whole new generation of Ted Bundy's. 349 00:22:57.079 --> 00:22:59.240 At the same time, you don't want to make something 350 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.839 that's like an act journal, just something boring that doesn't 351 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:07.440 that doesn't convey the horror. So what I said to 352 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:12.440 the William Cook who does the covers, and to Northbound Creations, 353 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:14.279 who are the graphic designers. I said, I want to 354 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:19.759 go for a tone here which implies things more and 355 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:25.200 is not so much sexual as it is eerie and horrific. 356 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.119 And I think if you, if you, if your listeners 357 00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:32.880 check out the covers around magazines, they'll probably see what 358 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:35.799 we've accomplished in that regard. 359 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:40.920 Yes, and I'm more appreciative too that the trend in 360 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.160 true crime books and all books in general are to 361 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:48.880 use stock images, and I think as opposed to the 362 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.799 way true crime books used to do with the victims 363 00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:54.599 and the killer and other images on the cover, I 364 00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:58.119 think there are some really cool true crime book covers 365 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:01.000 and I think this is more in in keeping with 366 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.200 really some great photographs, but keeping like you say that 367 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.440 the class and certainly not reverting to any kind of 368 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.680 anybody to label murder, porn or anything that would be 369 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.039 considered tasteless. This is I think I'm a very in 370 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.440 agreement with you. This is very classy and some really 371 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:23.559 profound photographs in this that are included. So now let's 372 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:27.359 also talk about let's talk about the actual characters that 373 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:31.279 are in Cruel Britannia itself and some characters I've never 374 00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:37.000 read about. And Arion Elliott writes about George John George. 375 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.079 Now am I mispronouncing this is? Is it Hay? Or Hey? 376 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:43.160 I believe it's Hey. That's the way I've always said it. 377 00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:47.960 Yeah, okay, Now what you have is I'll just read 378 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.039 what you have, and I really think it's interesting the 379 00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:54.759 little captions that you have underneath these stories to introduce 380 00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:57.559 them for somebody that's interested in these articles. 381 00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:00.160 And so it says, I've got a little rule for that, 382 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.799 no more than twenty five words. So sometimes it sounds 383 00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.480 almost like a tabloid. But that anyways, a little tidbit 384 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:08.359 for you. There, go ahead. 385 00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:13.119 Sorry, Yes, it's a dapper con artist Lure's friends and 386 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:17.319 business associates to their deaths in his London basement warehouse, 387 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:23.920 rendering their bodies into goo in acid baths. And that's 388 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.519 George John George. 389 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:25.759 Eight. 390 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:31.319 Hey, so tell us you tell us a little bit 391 00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:34.799 about John George Hay and why you included him in 392 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.400 this series. 393 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:42.240 John George Hay is interesting in that he's mostly known 394 00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:47.759 for being a vampire because he claimed that he drank 395 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:51.640 the blood of his victims, and so he got a 396 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.880 lot of notoriety over that, and authors wrote about it 397 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:59.759 without ever really questioning it. The truth seems to be 398 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.039 more or that he realized that if he said that, 399 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.920 it would play into an insanity defense. There is no 400 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.680 evidence at all that he did do it. He even 401 00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:14.680