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Speaker 6: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 6: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 6: written about them. Gaesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK every
Speaker 6: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 6: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 6: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 4: On January seventh, nineteen ninety four, residents of the Berkshire
Speaker 4: Hills woke up to a typical snowy winter day in
Speaker 4: the majestic woods of western Massachusetts. The quaint New England towns,
Speaker 4: that idyllic scenery, and the people who lived there could
Speaker 4: have stepped out of a Norman Rockwell painting as an
Speaker 4: imaginable evil converged on them, appalled that would be cast
Speaker 4: over the region and its inhabitants for years to follow.
Speaker 4: That day, a trial was beginning for a college student
Speaker 4: who celebrated his eighteenth birthday by purchasing an assault rifle,
Speaker 4: then opening fire on campus, killing two and wounding four others. Elsewhere,
Speaker 4: two young girls were accosted in the changing room at
Speaker 4: the local pool. Another young girl narrowly escaped being abducted
Speaker 4: at dunpoint on her way to school, her quick thinking
Speaker 4: resulting later in profound repercussions. Regarding the case of a
Speaker 4: young boy who vanished from a strip mall, baffling law enforcement,
Speaker 4: his body discovered three years earlier by deer hunters in
Speaker 4: a remote wooded area two hundred miles away. All these
Speaker 4: events appeared unrelated, but it seemed to police agencies and
Speaker 4: local residents that the world had suddenly gone mad. After all,
Speaker 4: they told each other, these things don't happen here. In chilling,
Speaker 4: dramatic narrative, Hidden Demons, Evil Visits a small New England
Speaker 4: Town by Marjorie Metzger details these events and reveals a
Speaker 4: savage serial killer who lurked in the shadows, but the
Speaker 4: bravery of a father and daughter and the remarkable work
Speaker 4: of law enforcement officers would turn the table. The book
Speaker 4: that we're featuring this evening is Hidden Demons. Evil Visits
Speaker 4: a Small New England Town with my special guest author,
Speaker 4: Marjorie B. Metzger. Welcome to the program, and thank you
Speaker 4: for this interview. Marjorie B.
Speaker 2: Metzger, Hi Dan, thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, and congratulations on this extraordinary book,
Speaker 4: Hidden Demons. Let's talk about right away, just briefly, how
Speaker 4: you came to be the author and why you wanted
Speaker 4: to be the author of this book, Hidden Demons.
Speaker 2: This is the first book that I have written. I
Speaker 2: am not a writer by training. I'm a social worker
Speaker 2: and mediator retired from that. But I was friendly with
Speaker 2: the police officer and his daughter that are mentioned in
Speaker 2: the book that I see as heroes. A number of
Speaker 2: years ago they told me about the January seventh, nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety four when each of them nay have a criminal
Speaker 2: and it was quite a unique story that this was
Speaker 2: a father and daughter event that they both rap somebody
Speaker 2: on the same debt. So years later, when I was
Speaker 2: retired and I had a little time on my hands,
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, this is really an interesting story
Speaker 2: and I'd like the world to know about it. And
Speaker 2: that's when I decided to write the book Color Audience.
Speaker 4: About Berkshire County, you'd say Massachusetts population around one hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty thousand and thirty towns in two cities, specifically
Speaker 4: a magnet, a beautiful magnet for the ultra wealthy, and
Speaker 4: one of those cities is Pittsfield, about forty to fifty thousand.
Speaker 4: Tell us a little bit more about Berkshire County before
Speaker 4: we talk about January seventh, nineteen ninety four. As you
Speaker 4: mentioned at the Reed Middle School and around just before
Speaker 4: seven am.
Speaker 2: Berkshire County is located extreme western part of Massachusetts. It
Speaker 2: is right over the line from New York State. It
Speaker 2: has a lot of natural beauty. There are lakes hills,
Speaker 2: there's skiing, there's a lot of family recreational stuff, and
Speaker 2: it is the mecca of cultural activities. In the summertime,
Speaker 2: there's Tanglewood, which is a summer home of the Boston
Speaker 2: Symphony Orchestra. There are three theater groups, there's Shakespeare and Company,
Speaker 2: there's Jacob's Pillow Dance Festival. There's just more things than
Speaker 2: anybody could possibly do in the summertime, so it's really
Speaker 2: a wonderful place. And in the winter time we have
Speaker 2: ski areas, so people come up to ski and in
Speaker 2: the fall people come to see the beautiful foliage. So
Speaker 2: it is really a lovely place and it has always
Speaker 2: been known as a wonderful place to raise children because
Speaker 2: it's not heavily trafficked and it's just got a lot
Speaker 2: of natural beauty with lakes, a lot of hiking. You
Speaker 2: can do a lot of outdoor activities, and it's really
Speaker 2: a wholesome place for children to grow up in families.
Speaker 4: Now, in contrast to this idyllic scenario you portrayed unwary seventh,
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four to Reed Middle School around six fifty five.
Speaker 4: You write that A William Mullett noticed a truck near
Speaker 4: where he was working. Just tell us what he saw
Speaker 4: and what he later reported to police.
Speaker 2: He was bringing his son to school, dropping him off,
Speaker 2: and it was not an unusual thing for him to do,
Speaker 2: but he noticed that there was a truck lurking by
Speaker 2: the side of the school and he was a little suspicious.
Speaker 2: He asked his son if he had ever seen this
Speaker 2: truck before or the man in it. So I said no,
Speaker 2: he had never seen him before. As soon as the
Speaker 2: man noticed that they were looking at him, he just
Speaker 2: sort of hid his face and then drove off. It
Speaker 2: looked a little suspicious the way he got nervous. It
Speaker 2: seemed that he got nervous when somebody noticed him.
Speaker 4: There was another groundskeeper at the Berkshire Hilton around seven am,
Speaker 4: and he was a guy Harris was shoveling snow on
Speaker 4: the sidewalk. What did he witness?
Speaker 2: What did he see? Well, first let me tell you
Speaker 2: about how this progressed. This man in the truck apparently
Speaker 2: had been coming south on Route seven. Root seven is
Speaker 2: the road that runs the whole length of Massachusetts and
Speaker 2: it runs between Williamstown and Pittsfield. So this man was
Speaker 2: coming south. Apparently he stopped at Reed Middle School, then
Speaker 2: made a left, continuing south until he came to the
Speaker 2: center of Pittsfield. At that time, he was in the
Speaker 2: area of just the exact center of town. At that time,
Speaker 2: there was a rotary where north, south, East, and West
Speaker 2: streets all came together, so it was exactly the center
Speaker 2: of town. So it's early in the morning and he's
Speaker 2: driving his truck up West Street and he goes past
Speaker 2: what was then Berkshire Hilton and he's driving very slowly.
Speaker 2: Now it was a very snowy morning, and you know,
Speaker 2: people around here know how to drive in the snow.
Speaker 2: But as the man that was working at the hilton
Speaker 2: realized this truck was going unusually slow, and the man
Speaker 2: went around the corner, came back around, and he did
Speaker 2: the same thing again. Now it just looked a little
Speaker 2: suspicious to him, and he got, you know, just noted
Speaker 2: it and in the back of his mind that it
Speaker 2: just looked a little suspicious, and he went ahead. Was
Speaker 2: clear across the street. From that, a man named Ken
Speaker 2: Card was got up early. He took his wife to
Speaker 2: work because he didn't want her driving in the snow,
Speaker 2: and he was snow plowing the sidewalk. Now, the sidewalk
Speaker 2: went from where the bank was on the corner it
Speaker 2: was also housed the District Attorney's office and down the
Speaker 2: sidewalk down West Street past KB Toy headquarters. So at
Speaker 2: that time he wanted just to get it cleared before
Speaker 2: everybody came into work. So that's the setting of what
Speaker 2: was happening early in the morning.
Speaker 4: You right, that at around seven am, Rebecca or they
Speaker 4: called her Becky Savarice. She's a seventh grader and she
Speaker 4: was twelve years old and lived with her single mom,
Speaker 4: Christine Pioli. Each morning, Rebecca would make the one mile
Speaker 4: trek to the middle school through downtown Pittsfield with her
Speaker 4: backpack and her earplugs in her walkman at that time,
Speaker 4: and she'd make this daily walk. So what happens along
Speaker 4: the way.
Speaker 2: Well, she's doing her normal route. She's walking. If you
Speaker 2: couldn't just picture this, it's a main road, it's West Street.
Speaker 2: She goes past the Big Supermarket, which is the big
Speaker 2: wy she'd passed the Salvation Army. Then the big why.
Speaker 2: She's going up the hill past KB Toys and she
Speaker 2: sees this man that you know, she doesn't really pay
Speaker 2: attention to him, but he looks, as she said, a
Speaker 2: little nerdy. And the next thing she knows, the man
Speaker 2: is standing beside her with a gun in her ribs,
Speaker 2: and he has a shirt over his hand to cover
Speaker 2: the gun, and he tells her to keep walking. I
Speaker 2: want you to walk up to the corner with me,
Speaker 2: and I want you to get in the truck. So
Speaker 2: first she thought he was kidding, and then she realized
Speaker 2: that this was no joke and her mother had always
Speaker 2: told her. Because her mother knew she was walking by
Speaker 2: herself to school, she said, if you ever approached by
Speaker 2: a stranger, do anything you can to get away. Scream,
Speaker 2: kick by, do anything. So Rebecca instinctively, and I don't
Speaker 2: know how she thought to do this under these circumstances,
Speaker 2: she faked an asthma attack and she said to the man,
Speaker 2: could I just sit down for a second. And just
Speaker 2: in the second that she went down, just a little bit,
Speaker 2: she was able to free her arms from the backpack
Speaker 2: that apparently he was holding, and she took off running.
Speaker 2: Ken Cart was still out snow blowing. She ran up
Speaker 2: to him and he took her in and they immediately
Speaker 2: called the police. But what this man that tried to
Speaker 2: abduct her did not realize that there was somebody parked
Speaker 2: at the light and he saw the whole thing. At first,
Speaker 2: he thought it was just a father and daughter having
Speaker 2: an argument, but when he saw the girl break away,
Speaker 2: he knew something wasn't right. So he looked at this
Speaker 2: man and saw the man's face and got in his
Speaker 2: truck and he realized that somebody saw him and what
Speaker 2: he did, which really made this a person that saw
Speaker 2: the incident suspicious. He drove on this man's right and
Speaker 2: went through two red lights, and the guy said he
Speaker 2: knew something then that something was really wrong, so he
Speaker 2: said he tried to chase the guy. The light turned
Speaker 2: and he couldn't continue to follow him, So then he
Speaker 2: was looking to call the police, and he found a
Speaker 2: police officer that was nearby, and at the same time
Speaker 2: that Ken Carr was calling into the police station, this
Speaker 2: police officer was also calling in, so the police station
Speaker 2: knew something was really going on when they got two
Speaker 2: calls about the same incident.
Speaker 4: Now you say that they got an identic kit to
Speaker 4: me composite drawing, and so they got Rebecca and they
Speaker 4: were very surprised, and to say the least, they were
Speaker 4: very surprised by her demeanor and her composure. In fact,
Speaker 4: when they found some corroborating evidence to her story, they
Speaker 4: were amazed. Actually, thanksplain well.
Speaker 2: The police officer who was identifying her and had a
Speaker 2: lot of experience working with children, and her reaction to
Speaker 2: all this just seemed very different from anything he had
Speaker 2: experienced before. I think that the adrenaline sort of had
Speaker 2: kicked in, but she was smiling, she was it hadn't
Speaker 2: fully hit her yet apparently, And when he found out
Speaker 2: in fact that this really did happen to the girl,
Speaker 2: he was quite surprised by the way she was reacting.
Speaker 2: But once he got her talking and he was able
Speaker 2: to get much more detail as to what actually did
Speaker 2: take place. Once she gave him her story about what happened,
Speaker 2: they called in somebody from the district attorney's office to
Speaker 2: come and do a composite. In those days, they had
Speaker 2: what they called an identic kit, and the police officers
Speaker 2: called it mister potato head because what they would do
Speaker 2: was they take different parts like the eyes and put
Speaker 2: them together, put the nose together, and they work from
Speaker 2: the top down. They'd start with the hair and then
Speaker 2: they do the eyes and nose, the noun. And Rebecca
Speaker 2: was very composed and was very very helpful in putting
Speaker 2: this together. So the whole time that she was with
Speaker 2: the police, she was a stellar witness to what was
Speaker 2: going on, telling her story and helping to draw up
Speaker 2: a composite.
Speaker 4: Right away, you introduced District Attorney Gerard Downing and Berkshire
Speaker 4: County and First Assistant David Capeless. But they're involved in
Speaker 4: a notorious killer's trial and named Waynelow. Before we get
Speaker 4: to that, we have this detective Owen Boyington also introduced,
Speaker 4: and we also have this person named Russell Davis. There
Speaker 4: was a witness that got witness to the abduction but
Speaker 4: also keenly was able to recall three of the numbers
Speaker 4: of the license plate. Didn't know if it was the
Speaker 4: first three or the last three. But from that police
Speaker 4: had a really good lead to investigate, didn't they.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, things just kind of fell into place
Speaker 2: at that time. Russell Davis didn't usually work the night shift,
Speaker 2: but he was filling in right before he left there
Speaker 2: was an emergency and he had his glasses on. He
Speaker 2: was probably exhausted, came out of work and you have
Speaker 2: to imagine, you know, he's in the hospital, there's all
Speaker 2: this going on. It's hot, and then he says, last
Speaker 2: of cold air as he comes out into a Berkshire
Speaker 2: morning where it's snowing. He forgot to take off his glasses,
Speaker 2: so he's driving and when he was stopped at the light,
Speaker 2: fortunately had his glasses on so he could see very clearly.
Speaker 2: He was looking through the rearview mirror when he caught
Speaker 2: three numbers of the license. He probably could have caught
Speaker 2: more if the guy hadn't taken off driving, but he
Speaker 2: was unsure with the mirror image whether it was the
Speaker 2: first three numbers or the last three numbers. But at
Speaker 2: least he was able to give the police three numbers
Speaker 2: of the license.
Speaker 4: Now, from that it leads to some good police work.
Speaker 4: But they look to the neighboring cities of Lanesboro, and
Speaker 4: in Lanesboro they find somebody with the vehicle registered named
Speaker 4: Philip Shaley's. Now tell us who Philip Shally's is and
Speaker 4: what happens with Detective Boyington and detectives or Officer Sorell
Speaker 4: when they go to question them, what did they find
Speaker 4: out from Bill Sally's which is quite a bit of information.
Speaker 2: Well, let's back up, because they didn't finish answering your
Speaker 2: other question. Your other question was about the DA. At
Speaker 2: the time, District Attorney Gerard Downing and his assistant David
Speaker 2: Capelists were handling the biggest case since they had since
Speaker 2: Gerard Downing had taken over as DA. I mean, this
Speaker 2: was really big, the way Low case. It was one
Speaker 2: of the first, not the first campus shootings. Blame Low
Speaker 2: was an eighteen year old. He turned eighteen that day.
Speaker 2: He had had ammunition sent to the door and when
Speaker 2: question about it, he said, oh, it's a Christmas gift
Speaker 2: for my father. Now, he couldn't even rent a car
Speaker 2: because he was only eighteen, So he takes a cab
Speaker 2: from Great Barrington, which is south Pittsfield, probably about a
Speaker 2: half hour south into Pittsfield to a gun shop, buys
Speaker 2: a gun semi automatic, goes back and shoots up the campus.
Speaker 2: So this was the first day of well, actually the
Speaker 2: second day of the trial. First day was jury selection
Speaker 2: and Downing and Caples were surprised that they were able
Speaker 2: to accomplish that one day. So on that Friday, the seventh,
Speaker 2: they had what was called the view. So the jury
Speaker 2: en Maass went down to Simon's Rock College to walk
Speaker 2: the campus and to see where everything took place. When
Speaker 2: they finished it around noontime, they took the jury to
Speaker 2: a nice lunch at the Red Lion in Stockbridge, but
Speaker 2: Capeless Downing had to get back to the offices. They
Speaker 2: really had to prepare for their case on Monday. I mean,
Speaker 2: this was a huge trial. It's taking place in Springfield,
Speaker 2: not in Field. When they get to the office, the
Speaker 2: woman Driscoll, Patty Driscoll, who had done the composite with
Speaker 2: RecA Savarriice, goes into the office and said there was
Speaker 2: an attempt at kidnapping. And at first Downing said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: was she late for school and said no, it really happened.
Speaker 2: There was a witness and it happened. He said, well,
Speaker 2: where did it happen. She walked to the window and
Speaker 2: said right there. So it was right under the DA's office.
Speaker 2: So now the DA not only had this huge case,
Speaker 2: but they had this kidnapping attempt at kidnapping and it
Speaker 2: also happened that Rebecca Savaice was a classmate of Downing's son,
Speaker 2: so it was hitting very close to home for him absolutely.
Speaker 2: And now I will jump to your other part of
Speaker 2: your next question, and that is Phil Shalli's. Phil Shalli's
Speaker 2: was a man who was a car mechanic, an auto mechanic,
Speaker 2: but he was blind. He started in high school and
Speaker 2: he had a disease that was progressive, so he could
Speaker 2: see a little bit then, but as he got older
Speaker 2: he lost his vision. But he was really good with
Speaker 2: cars and he could feel his way around the car.
Speaker 2: And eventually nobody would hire him because he was a risk,
Speaker 2: an insurance risk. So he opened his own garage at
Speaker 2: his home and this man, and it happened to be
Speaker 2: the man that attempted this kidnapping, befriended him. Somebody told
Speaker 2: him that Schalis worked on cars and he had an old,
Speaker 2: broken down van and he needed somebody to work on
Speaker 2: the van. So he went to Challis and they decided
Speaker 2: to kind of trade. He would work on his van
Speaker 2: and this man would help Shallis do tasks around the house.
Speaker 2: He had some heavy work that he was doing on
Speaker 2: the construction on the foundation of his house and this
Speaker 2: man offered to help him and it was a godsend.
Speaker 2: I mean, Shaalis was thrilled to have this guy them
Speaker 2: and he also could drive them around. He could use
Speaker 2: his truck. He could drive them around because Sill couldn't
Speaker 2: drive the truck. So he was thrilled to have the sky.
Speaker 2: But this morning the guy showed up unusually early to
Speaker 2: his house and he parked he had barred Phil's truck
Speaker 2: because his van was being serviced, parked Phils truck in.
Speaker 2: There were two driveways. The lower driveway threw some snow
Speaker 2: on it kind of camouflage it, and then you know,
Speaker 2: went to the other driveway and started shoveling so that
Speaker 2: people could get out. There were other people that lived
Speaker 2: in the house with the challises and they had to
Speaker 2: get to work, so he started shoveling out. It was
Speaker 2: just unusual. Then he showed up at that hour and
Speaker 2: they were wondering what happened, but you know, they didn't
Speaker 2: really think all that much of it.
Speaker 4: Now you talk about Detective Boyington and Officer Sorell coming
Speaker 4: to the address, there's other people there. There's Sarah and
Speaker 4: Eleanor and a man named Chester forfa and he also
Speaker 4: uses Chester's or Chet's vehicles sometimes as well. But the
Speaker 4: police ask Bill and the family if anybody's used the vehicle,
Speaker 4: so they tell him about lewis Land, don't they.
Speaker 2: After this incident with the kidnapping, all the detectors were
Speaker 2: called in early before they're shift, and they're all sent
Speaker 2: out to different quadrants of Pittsfield to try to locate
Speaker 2: this truck. So Owen had one section of Pittsfield. He
Speaker 2: didn't find anything. He scoured it and they were all
Speaker 2: scouring their quadrants of the city and he just said,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe I should go over to Lanesboro. He
Speaker 2: doesn't know why he thought he should go there, but
Speaker 2: he just said it was, you know, he just thought
Speaker 2: he'd try it. So he got permission to go. And
Speaker 2: as he's driving over, he goes past one of the
Speaker 2: lakes and the snow is coming down. It's almost blinding
Speaker 2: at this point, it's almost white out conditions. So he
Speaker 2: goes over, you know, past the lake, makes a left
Speaker 2: on to Root seven North Street and now he's in Lanesboro.
Speaker 2: He's crossed over. But when he went into a different town,
Speaker 2: he had to go to the police station as he's
Speaker 2: going there. There's a street called Summer Street, which is
Speaker 2: quite steep, and he looks up and he just thinks,
Speaker 2: you know, in this weather, somebody's coming down. I don't
Speaker 2: think they're going to be able to stop, and somebody
Speaker 2: might get hurt, and they might just go right into
Speaker 2: Route seven and hit somebody. So then it goes on
Speaker 2: and probably about one hundred yards past that street, he
Speaker 2: turns into the driveway of the police station in Lanesboro
Speaker 2: and he tells Currell that he's into you know. He
Speaker 2: gives them a composite drawing. Sorell says, I've already gone out.
Speaker 2: I got the beyond the alert for this, and I
Speaker 2: didn't see that truck anywhere. I went to the mall.
Speaker 2: There's nothing in's parking lot there. I've gone around. So
Speaker 2: Boyington says, well, he's turning around. He says he's going
Speaker 2: to go back to Pittsfield. Well, as he turns around
Speaker 2: to go south again, he doesn't know what made him
Speaker 2: look up that street, Summer Street, that he had looked
Speaker 2: up before. And he's not even on that side of
Speaker 2: the road, he's on the opposite side. He looks up
Speaker 2: and pulls sudden he sees his truck sticking out of
Speaker 2: the house, the second house up on this hill, so
Speaker 2: he decides to pull into this street. Now, in those
Speaker 2: days they didn't have front wheel drive, the real drive,
Speaker 2: so for him to get up this rather steep hill,
Speaker 2: he was fish tailing and it was not easy. But
Speaker 2: he sees this truck parked in the driveway and it's
Speaker 2: the black or dark blue. They couldn't really tell the
Speaker 2: difference at that point, and it had three upper license
Speaker 2: plate numbers that he knew of that they were looking for.
Speaker 2: So he turns around. Of course, he can't do anything
Speaker 2: because he's not in his jurisdiction. So he went back
Speaker 2: and got Surrell and together they went to the Challice's house,
Speaker 2: knocked on the door, and as they opened the door,
Speaker 2: he sees this guy sitting there and he looks quite
Speaker 2: a bit like the composite drawing. So they asked, you know,
Speaker 2: was anybody using the truck. So the guy says, yeah,
Speaker 2: I used the truck this morning and I came down,
Speaker 2: but I came directly here from North Adams, and you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't go to Pittsfield. I came directly here. So
Speaker 2: he said, well, do you mind coming out and talking
Speaker 2: to me. So he stepped outside, and Boyington just asked
Speaker 2: the right questions. He said, you know, I've lived here
Speaker 2: my whole life, and Sorel's been here forever, and we
Speaker 2: haven't seen you before. Are you from here? And the
Speaker 2: man says no, I'm from Upstate New York and says
Speaker 2: where he's from in Upstate New York. And then he
Speaker 2: says where do you work? He says, well, I'm not
Speaker 2: working now, but I used to work at the Pittsfield
Speaker 2: Cinema Center. All of a sudden, a light bulb goes
Speaker 2: off in Boyington's head and he says, this is it.
Speaker 2: This is it. Three years before this boy was murdered
Speaker 2: in Pittsfield, Well, he was abducted in Pittsfield. This body
Speaker 2: was found two hundred miles away in upstate New York.
Speaker 2: And this happened to me. Where this man grew up
Speaker 2: and the last place he was seen was at the
Speaker 2: cinema center, and this is where this man worked. And
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, Owen said, this is it. For
Speaker 2: three years, the murder of Jimmy Bernardo was a mystery.
Speaker 2: They had no clues, and it's not for lack of trying.
Speaker 2: I mean they probably interviewed three thousand people. They had
Speaker 2: files and files of information that they had checked into
Speaker 2: and nothing panned out. And all of a sudden, oh,
Speaker 2: and put it together and said, I think this man
Speaker 2: not only tried to ob doctor Becka Savarice, but I
Speaker 2: think he killed Jimmy Bernardo. So they got right on
Speaker 2: it and called the Pittsfield Police Department said I think
Speaker 2: we got Jimmy's killer. Get over here, We've got to
Speaker 2: get this guy.
Speaker 4: They also had found this Jimmy Bernardo's bicycle and also
Speaker 4: his body. Eventually, yes, if you don't mind, what was
Speaker 4: the condition this body was found? What were some of
Speaker 4: the horrific particulars.
Speaker 2: Well, he was found without his clothes on. He was
Speaker 2: found strangled. Was first he was strangled and then he
Speaker 2: was hung. They had to rope around his neck, and
Speaker 2: he tied him up to a tree so that if
Speaker 2: he didn't do the job completely strangling him, the hanging
Speaker 2: part would have done the trick. And he took his
Speaker 2: clothes off with his kid so that if even that
Speaker 2: didn't work, he would die of exposure.
Speaker 4: There is a massive search ensued that you write and
Speaker 4: the shock waves go through the community, and also that
Speaker 4: there's a couple of detectives that have the unenvybl job
Speaker 4: of contacting the parents of Jimmy Bernardo.
Speaker 2: Yes, now, picture of this community, a lot of people
Speaker 2: know everybody else. Was a small community, a lot of
Speaker 2: people have children that age, and it was not lost
Speaker 2: on the police officers. It was so tragic, so sad,
Speaker 2: and these police officers who had been working with Jimmy's
Speaker 2: family felt that they had to get over there and
Speaker 2: tell the parents, break the news to their parents, to
Speaker 2: his parents before they read it in the newspaper or
Speaker 2: heard it on the news, and they said it was
Speaker 2: the hardest thing they ever had to do.
Speaker 3: You talked that.
Speaker 4: Now. Lewis Lent is in custody. January seventh, nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 4: Captain Frank Pace is head a criminal investigation. He is
Speaker 4: saying you right, that he's heading to Pittsfield, but there's
Speaker 4: a blizzard. While Detective Owen Boyington is waiting for these
Speaker 4: people to arrive, he decides to start the interrogation by himself.
Speaker 2: Tell us what those results are, Okay, Boyington, Lent was
Speaker 2: not under arrest yet, and he hadn't been read as rights.
Speaker 2: All they wanted to do was keep them talking until
Speaker 2: the New York police got there, and they had to
Speaker 2: deal with Becca Savaice. That was definitely a Massachusetts case.
Speaker 2: The Jimmy Bernardo case was Massachusetts and New York state
Speaker 2: because he was found dead in New York even though
Speaker 2: he was abducted in Massachusetts. So Owen's job was basically
Speaker 2: just to keep this guy talking until the New York
Speaker 2: police got there. And he hadn't read of his rights
Speaker 2: yet because he wasn't accused of anything yet and he
Speaker 2: wasn't asking him questions about Respecca Savaice. The thought was
Speaker 2: if they could keep went talking, he would get comfortable there.
Speaker 2: And they figured the more he talked that the more
Speaker 2: they would get out of him, and they wanted to
Speaker 2: feel very comfortable there, So that's what Owen was taking.
Speaker 2: He was just talking to him about everything. But finally,
Speaker 2: after a few hours he said to his boss, I
Speaker 2: can't stand this bullshit anymore. I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2: Can I start questioning him? And he said, yeah, go ahead,
Speaker 2: But at this point Lent had already lied. He had lied.
Speaker 2: When Captain Boyer came in and said, do you have
Speaker 2: a firearm identification card and he said, yes, I do.
Speaker 2: And he looked at it and he said, do you
Speaker 2: have a gun? He says, no, I don't have any guns.
Speaker 2: I don't have any guns. But he had the fire
Speaker 2: identification card. And as lawyer was walking out, he muttered
Speaker 2: under his Beth, you're never going to see this again.
Speaker 2: And Lent heard that and he just shut up. I
Speaker 2: think he knew. I think he thought he could talk
Speaker 2: his way out of it up to this point, but
Speaker 2: I think he was beginning to see that he was
Speaker 2: in real trouble. So Boynton got him dinner and then
Speaker 2: ran him his rights and began to question him, although
Speaker 2: we really didn't get anything out of it. And then
Speaker 2: once they arrested him, they had to do the fingerprinting
Speaker 2: and the photo ID, so they took him out and
Speaker 2: they did all the things that they needed to do
Speaker 2: when they arrest somebody.
Speaker 4: So based on Rebecca's identification, successful identification of him, and
Speaker 4: she was shaken up. You write that unlike what we'd
Speaker 4: see in TV, where she would be separated from him
Speaker 4: with a plate of glass and he wouldn't be able
Speaker 4: to see her, she was in the same room as him.
Speaker 4: To identify him, wasn't she well.
Speaker 2: Before she actually had to do the physical identification of him,
Speaker 2: They showed a photos they mixed his photo in with
Speaker 2: other people, and she picked him out, and Russell Davis
Speaker 2: had come back to the police station he did the
Speaker 2: same thing. They both picked out the same person, but
Speaker 2: they were a little unsure because he looked a little
Speaker 2: different in the picture than the one they had seen
Speaker 2: him with his hat on and his coat on and that,
Speaker 2: and they couldn't give one hundred percent identification. They also
Speaker 2: took both of them out to fill Shallice's house to
Speaker 2: identify the truck, and because there was snow on the truck,
Speaker 2: they both said, yes, it looks like the truck. They
Speaker 2: couldn't give an absolute positive ID of it. So when
Speaker 2: they came back, they figured really the only way they
Speaker 2: could get a positive ID was to do a lineup.
Speaker 2: So they went out. Police officers went out and they
Speaker 2: went to bars, they went everywhere else to get people
Speaker 2: that looked somewhat like Lewis Lyn and they did a lineup,
Speaker 2: and this I think was the first time they had
Speaker 2: done that, and they had to do it in a haulway.
Speaker 2: So they took Rebecca to another room, and I think
Speaker 2: this was Detective Bowler who was with her at the time.
Speaker 2: He prepped her for this and he told her what
Speaker 2: to expect. He told her that he would give her
Speaker 2: a sheet of paper and she was to mark down
Speaker 2: the number of the person if she saw that person
Speaker 2: on that paper. And as she walked in, that's when
Speaker 2: it really hit her. She saw the guy and she
Speaker 2: just that's it. That's him. And lawyer said okay, and
Speaker 2: then all the men had to say something. They each
Speaker 2: took their turn and they said something like get in
Speaker 2: the truck and I want hurt you. I don't remember
Speaker 2: exactly what they said, but they all have to say
Speaker 2: the same thing, so she could hear the voice, but
Speaker 2: she was sure that it was Lewis Lent from that lineup.
Speaker 2: But this really shook up the kid for the first time.
Speaker 2: He saw how noticeably shaken up she was. And while
Speaker 2: there was nervous too. He didn't know what was going
Speaker 2: to happen. He didn't know if she was going to
Speaker 2: be able to identify her. It was going to be
Speaker 2: a waste. But that kind of clinched it.
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Speaker 4: m r dr zip recruiter the smartest way to hire. Now, Marjorie,
Speaker 4: we were talking about that Lewis Lent Junior is now arrested.
Speaker 4: Shockwaves through the community. It surprises and shocks the people
Speaker 4: that know him, fill Shally's and his family, but other
Speaker 4: people that just can't believe that this person, this mild mannered,
Speaker 4: helpful christian, has been charged with these offenses. Tell us
Speaker 4: how police and prosecutors proceed well.
Speaker 2: Of course they interview a lot of people that they're
Speaker 2: interviewing a lot of people, but they just keep him talking.
Speaker 2: That weekend, he didn't have any an attorney at that point,
Speaker 2: and he was just lying and lying and lying the
Speaker 2: first day, anything to just avoid the situation. The next
Speaker 2: morning when they came in, he said to them, you know,
Speaker 2: that girl looked so frightened, and I just wondered why
Speaker 2: she was so frightened. And you know, I have like
Speaker 2: sometimes I have this other side of me. It's like
Speaker 2: another personality and I blank out, and I don't know
Speaker 2: what's happening to me. I don't know what I've done.
Speaker 2: So it's his evil other side of them called Steve,
Speaker 2: and he says it's another personality. So now he's saying
Speaker 2: he's got a split personality and that it was the
Speaker 2: split personality that did it. That he knew nothing of
Speaker 2: what was going on, but he said that girl looked
Speaker 2: toughly scared, and I had to wonder why she looked
Speaker 2: so scared when she saw me, And then she did
Speaker 2: look a little familiar to me, So you know, this
Speaker 2: is what he's doing. At first, and then as by
Speaker 2: the next morning, Massachusetts and New York had to decide
Speaker 2: who is going to do what they had to deal
Speaker 2: with in Rebecca Savaurice case, I mean, that was most
Speaker 2: recent and present that had to be dealt with, but
Speaker 2: they also New York was dying to get to this
Speaker 2: Jimmy Bernardo thing, so they decided that Massachusetts would only
Speaker 2: question him about Becca Savareice and New York had questioned
Speaker 2: him about Jimmy bernarda So he talked to Massachusetts police
Speaker 2: officers and then when he came to the New York officers,
Speaker 2: because they really couldn't talk to him the night before,
Speaker 2: there was just too much going on. He started to
Speaker 2: open up and he was caught in some of his lies.
Speaker 2: First of all, they found a receipt where he had
Speaker 2: purchased a gun, so he couldn't dismiss that. He couldn't
Speaker 2: lie that one away. I mean, there was a receipt
Speaker 2: for the gun. So then when they started trapping him
Speaker 2: in some of his lies, he started talking and he
Speaker 2: said that he confessed to Jimmy Bernardo. He told the
Speaker 2: whole story in gory detail, which I have in the book,
Speaker 2: and I was lucky enough to get that information from
Speaker 2: the records from the DA's office. And it's really chilling
Speaker 2: how he did it and his attitude about it. I mean,
Speaker 2: you have to realize that this guy was a psychopath
Speaker 2: and it didn't really bother him, but he didn't if
Speaker 2: he had to do it, you know, it was just
Speaker 2: he had no choice, but he had to kill this kid.
Speaker 4: Now he also keeps talking not only about Jimmy Bernardo,
Speaker 4: but there's someone else who's been suspected of being involved
Speaker 4: with as well. Sarah and Wood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a shock to everybody because they were
Speaker 2: just focusing on Jimmy Bernardo and all of a sudden, Oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, there's also Sarah Anne Wood. Now Sarah
Speaker 2: Ann Wood was a sweet little twelve year old. The father,
Speaker 2: my father was a minister in a tiny little town
Speaker 2: in upstate New York, and Upstate New York was often
Speaker 2: where he would just drive around and check things out,
Speaker 2: you know, just look for somebody that was a good target.
Speaker 2: And for him, a good target was somebody it looked vulnerable,
Speaker 2: and he was always out prowling. And this little girl
Speaker 2: was by herself. The chain of her bike had come off,
Speaker 2: so she's walking her bike on a lonely road where
Speaker 2: there's nobody else around. It wasn't far from the church
Speaker 2: and from her home. She didn't have far to go.
Speaker 2: But he pulled up ahead and he grabbed the girl,
Speaker 2: threw her in his truck and that was the end
Speaker 2: of it. He threw her bike by the side of
Speaker 2: the road and just took off and that was the end.
Speaker 2: So nobody had any idea of what had happened to
Speaker 2: Sarah Anne. I mean, they were all out scouting all
Speaker 2: over the place, but he just took off with her,
Speaker 2: and it was mystery until he confessed. I mean, they
Speaker 2: didn't even put it together that he was the one,
Speaker 2: and he confessed to it.
Speaker 4: He also told of his sort of awareness of forensic
Speaker 4: evidence and the destruction of it, so he was very
Speaker 4: aware of what law enforcement will be looking for and
Speaker 4: destroyed evidence subsequently.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm glad you mentioned that, because here we
Speaker 2: have a guy who slipped under the radar for a
Speaker 2: long time. He was kind of a nebishy looking guy,
Speaker 2: but I would think of somebody as being really dangerous
Speaker 2: me just like, you know, a kind of a floppy underachiever.
Speaker 2: Bobby didn't think he was too bright, but he had
Speaker 2: a pretty sharp criminal mind. He knew how to cover
Speaker 2: up his tracks, and he was very focused on what
Speaker 2: he was doing, and I think for a long time
Speaker 2: he was getting better and better at it. And I
Speaker 2: think also he was getting bolder and bolder because he
Speaker 2: hadn't been caught. And also I think that his urges
Speaker 2: were escalating. So I think that, you know, the more
Speaker 2: he did, the more hungry he had for doing more
Speaker 2: and more and more. And I think that his undoing
Speaker 2: was when he tried to abduct somebody right in the
Speaker 2: middle of downtown Pittsfield, and he didn't know who he
Speaker 2: was dealing with, and this girl out smarted him. Now,
Speaker 2: had he tried to bring up her on an isolated road,
Speaker 2: she probably would not have gotten away. But this was
Speaker 2: right in the middle of town and there are other
Speaker 2: people around. So you know, for all the times that
Speaker 2: he had gotten away with things, he was just getting
Speaker 2: bolder and bolder, And I guess he thought that he
Speaker 2: could get away with it, and probably when he was
Speaker 2: first taken into custody, he probably thought he could talk
Speaker 2: his way out of it. But by this point, you know,
Speaker 2: there was just no getting around it.
Speaker 4: You include letters from him reaching out to people once
Speaker 4: he's in custody, so it shows that he's quite an
Speaker 4: intelligent and articulate guy. He's a smart guy. Now with
Speaker 4: the police, they he had to have these confessions, these dramatic,
Speaker 4: graphic confessions. He's pretending to help out because he came
Speaker 4: forward with this information. How about the idea where he'll
Speaker 4: show where those bodies are? What about that?
Speaker 2: He was not about to do that, but what he
Speaker 2: did do and they thought he was cooperating on Sunday. Now,
Speaker 2: this all started on Friday. By Sunday when he confessed
Speaker 2: to Sarahan would the people from her part of the
Speaker 2: DA from her fart in New York that came right over,
Speaker 2: and this was night already on Sunday night. He gives
Speaker 2: them a map in the Adirondecks where her body was,
Speaker 2: and they wanted to take him right away to go
Speaker 2: help find the body, and Di Downing. Da Downing said,
Speaker 2: there's no way we're letting them out of our custody,
Speaker 2: because once he's out of our custody, I don't think
Speaker 2: we're going to get him back. And we need to
Speaker 2: do the Jimmy Bernardo case here. We need to do
Speaker 2: the Rebecca Zavarice case here. And I will explain to
Speaker 2: you a little bit later why he was so insistent
Speaker 2: that it happened in Massachusetts. So he gave them this
Speaker 2: crude map of wearing the Adirondecks he had buried Sarah
Speaker 2: Anne Wood and her parents were very hopeful that at
Speaker 2: least they would be able to give their daughter a
Speaker 2: proper burial. They lost any hope of ever seeing their
Speaker 2: daughter again, which was of course totally devastating. So it
Speaker 2: was there was a huge amount of snow in the Adirondecks.
Speaker 2: The temperatures were below zero. It was horrible. And for
Speaker 2: weeks they dug and they searched, and they had almost
Speaker 2: like it was a dig, an archaeological dig. They were
Speaker 2: so careful looking for remnants of this child and nothing,
Speaker 2: nothing came up. And finally they had to give up.
Speaker 2: And Reverend Wood and his wife were insistent that they
Speaker 2: wanted Lent to come and help. I don't think they
Speaker 2: realized who they were dealing with. I don't think that
Speaker 2: these god sharing people realize that there were people who
Speaker 2: had no conscience. This man would not help them in
Speaker 2: any way. So they became very angry with the A
Speaker 2: Downing for not cooperating with them in every way to
Speaker 2: find Sarah's body. But Downey knew that this guy was
Speaker 2: not going to give up anything, and he really had
Speaker 2: to prosecute when in Massachusetts. And I'll explain to you
Speaker 2: why for a couple of reasons. In New York State,
Speaker 2: as soon as somebody's arrested, they have to have counsel
Speaker 2: attached to them. With Lent, he did not have counsel
Speaker 2: attached to him for that weekend. There was no he
Speaker 2: assigned him, and he didn't ask for an attorney. Now
Speaker 2: if he were tried in New York, that would have
Speaker 2: been thrown out right away because he didn't have an
Speaker 2: attorney with him. Another thing was that he would have
Speaker 2: been charged for second degree murder in New York state,
Speaker 2: and he could be charged for first degree murder in Massachusetts,
Speaker 2: and first degree murder he would get life and no
Speaker 2: chance of parole in New York. If he were found guilty,
Speaker 2: he would get twenty five years with a chance of parole.
Speaker 2: And Downing was not about to let this guy ever
Speaker 2: get out again because he was just dangerous.
Speaker 4: Now you set up the reason and for the prosecution
Speaker 4: to stay in Massachusetts. They also, in their numerous searches,
Speaker 4: search his former apartments, including the one in North Adams,
Speaker 4: and they find some very very interesting evidence there. And
Speaker 4: they also speak to a co renter or his nephew
Speaker 4: that lived with him at one time, and so they
Speaker 4: came up with this. They were told of this master place,
Speaker 4: tell us about this master plan and some of the
Speaker 4: evidence that they found, especially at this apartment.
Speaker 2: His nephew step nephew came to live with him. This
Speaker 2: kid his parents were divorced and he was hanging around
Speaker 2: with the wrong kind of kids. He was sixteen years old,
Speaker 2: and his mother said that he had to She couldn't
Speaker 2: keep him there, so he chose to go live with
Speaker 2: Uncle Lou. And yeah, every thought Uncle Lou was a
Speaker 2: good guy, so he sent him to live with them.
Speaker 2: And the apartment was adequate size for the two of them.
Speaker 2: Was a three bedroom apartment in a duplex, kind of
Speaker 2: in a Rundown area, a run down apartment but served
Speaker 2: its purpose. And Lou worked nights. He worked at the
Speaker 2: cinema center of Knights, So this kid really was on
Speaker 2: his own a lot, you know, he had free reign.
Speaker 2: His friends came over and whatever, and when Lou was home,
Speaker 2: he usually locked himself in his bedroom, so they didn't
Speaker 2: know what was going on in there, and they couldn't
Speaker 2: even imagine. Then some Knights Lou wouldn't even come home.
Speaker 2: Some nights he would, you know, sometimes he'd come out
Speaker 2: and be friendly with the kids, and sometimes he would
Speaker 2: yell at them, just you know, kind of lose his temper.
Speaker 2: He could be just all of a sudden, his mood
Speaker 2: could change like that. But he had a padlock on
Speaker 2: his door. He did not want anybody in there because
Speaker 2: he had a building project. He told this little friend
Speaker 2: of his that he was building an aquarium, and he
Speaker 2: told Phil Shelley's he was going to grow marijuana there.
Speaker 2: But really what he was doing he partitioned off his
Speaker 2: bedroom and he was building these slams that he was
Speaker 2: going to use as beds to He was going to
Speaker 2: abduct young girls and he was going to store them
Speaker 2: in this room and take them out whenever he wanted
Speaker 2: to have sex with them. So that was his master plan.
Speaker 2: So he was in the process of building this dungeon
Speaker 2: in that was part of his room, soundproofing the walls,
Speaker 2: and you know, he had every intention of going out
Speaker 2: and finding people that he could take as his sex slaves,
Speaker 2: young girls, because all he wanted was girls between the
Speaker 2: ages of twelve and seventeen. Once they were past that age,
Speaker 2: they were not attracted to him anymore. And he also
Speaker 2: didn't I mean he wasn't didn't say he was going
Speaker 2: to kidnap boys. But if young boys turned him on,
Speaker 2: I mean Jimmy Bernardo did, and I'm sure there were others.
Speaker 2: You know, he would have sex with them, but they
Speaker 2: were just quickies and that was not in his master
Speaker 2: plan to have them and his slaves. Those in his room, you're.
Speaker 4: Right about February second, nineteen ninety four. There's a or
Speaker 4: there's a there's task forces contacted. So the task force
Speaker 4: is set up because there are similar murders that fit
Speaker 4: the description and similar age and similar geography, location, either
Speaker 4: where he had been or just in the vicinity of
Speaker 4: these crimes that he's already charged for. So tell us
Speaker 4: a little bit about this task force that's set up.
Speaker 2: Well, let's have lived in different places. He was originally
Speaker 2: from upstate, New York and then moved down to Florida
Speaker 2: because his father was down there in some of his relatives,
Speaker 2: So we lived there and he would go back and
Speaker 2: forth from Florida to New York State and anywhere in between.
Speaker 2: So he had covered a lot of territory, and they
Speaker 2: reached out to people and they said, you know, if
Speaker 2: you have cases, just let us know. The task force
Speaker 2: was set up to take calls because people were calling
Speaker 2: from all over thinking that maybe he had been the
Speaker 2: one that had perpetrated other crimes along the way that
Speaker 2: were unsolved. So there were so many calls coming in
Speaker 2: that they had to set up a task force, and
Speaker 2: the Pittsfield Police Department was overwhelmed they couldn't handle it
Speaker 2: because they had their regular business to do. So they
Speaker 2: had the New York State Police come in and they
Speaker 2: had mass Usett State Police. Now there were a lot
Speaker 2: of New York State Police that could come, but there
Speaker 2: weren't that many Massachusetts State Police because they had to
Speaker 2: be in Springfield for the Wayne Low trial. So at
Speaker 2: that point, Police Chief Gerald Lee called up the head
Speaker 2: of the Massachusetts State Police and said, we need more
Speaker 2: people here, and they saw that this was really a
Speaker 2: big case and sent a lot of people and they
Speaker 2: set up so at this point they had Pittsfield Police,
Speaker 2: Massachusetts State Police, New York State Police, and then they
Speaker 2: called in the FBI. So this task force their job
Speaker 2: was to take every call and every inquiry, every piece
Speaker 2: of evidence, and put it in some usable form. And
Speaker 2: this was really the first time that this information was computerized.
Speaker 2: And this is what the task force did, and this
Speaker 2: is what it was so remarkable. This was the first
Speaker 2: time this was ever done, and it became the prototype
Speaker 2: for how the FBI would go about working on serial killers.
Speaker 2: They set up a computerized system so that any time
Speaker 2: if somebody pull up and say, you know, we had
Speaker 2: something happen here, at such and such a time. Was
Speaker 2: lewis Lett in this area at this time? And they
Speaker 2: could say either yes he was or no, he wasn't there,
Speaker 2: he was some where else at the time. So it
Speaker 2: was it was organizing all this and the phone was
Speaker 2: just ringing off. There were just thousands of calls coming in.
Speaker 4: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a
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Speaker 4: Needless to say, this well established and operating uniquely and
Speaker 4: very very effectively, led to no results in the six months,
Speaker 4: and it was quietly disbanded. And so we get to
Speaker 4: the prosecution of Rebecca Savarys, and we talk about in
Speaker 4: January seventh, nineteen ninety four of the trials. This was
Speaker 4: a vigorous defense was employed in the pre trial hearings
Speaker 4: and then February fourteenth, nineteen ninety four, he was indicted
Speaker 4: for kidnapping and murder of Jimmy Bernardo. Tell us about
Speaker 4: what happens in these trials, how they proceed and why.
Speaker 2: Well, he got very good defense attorneys. They were appointed
Speaker 2: by the state, but there was so much evidence against
Speaker 2: Lent that the only way they could really try to
Speaker 2: defend it was on technicalities, and these lawyers really dug deep,
Speaker 2: and I have to give them credit. They thought of
Speaker 2: almost every angle you could possibly think of for this,
Speaker 2: you know, to help the Skuy's defense. And fortunately justice
Speaker 2: went out and he was convicted from Rebecca Savaie, So
Speaker 2: that put him away for a while, so they knew
Speaker 2: that they had, you know, they didn't have to worry
Speaker 2: about him for a while. But down he wanted to
Speaker 2: nail him for the Jimmy Bernardo case because he was
Speaker 2: just terrified of this guy getting out and did not
Speaker 2: want this guy ever to see the lighted day again.
Speaker 2: So they had The prosecution did an excellent job, I
Speaker 2: mean every term, So I have to say both the
Speaker 2: defense and the prosecution were excellent attorneys and they all
Speaker 2: did a wonderful job.
Speaker 4: And on both sides, what about Sarah and Wood and
Speaker 4: that confession, and you write about that. Confessions, despite what
Speaker 4: people might think, are not enough for convictions alone, are they?
Speaker 2: No, it's not nearly enough. And eyewitnesses are not nearly
Speaker 2: enough because you can have several eyewitnesses looking at the
Speaker 2: same thing and you'll get totally different accounts of what happened.
Speaker 2: So that's why the task force was so important at
Speaker 2: this point to really gather information that was solid to
Speaker 2: use in court. And that's what they were able to do.
Speaker 2: They were able to get rock solid testimony and accounts
Speaker 2: that was very helpful for the prosecution.
Speaker 4: That he was sentenced and he is secured with life
Speaker 4: without parole in Massachusetts. What is the status of the
Speaker 4: cases that are unsolved as of right now?
Speaker 2: It's still an open case. There's a task force mostly
Speaker 2: from retired law enforcement people, and I think it's an
Speaker 2: unofficial task force. They had worked with the FBI also
Speaker 2: at the beginning, and they're looking into other things. They
Speaker 2: would not talk to me. They did not want other
Speaker 2: people talking to me. They told people not to talk
Speaker 2: to me, and I had to respect that for whatever reason.
Speaker 2: They had their reasons for not wanting to or not
Speaker 2: being able to talk to me. So I'm assuming that
Speaker 2: part of it is to try to find some of
Speaker 2: the bodies, and there might be other cases that they're
Speaker 2: working on that I don't know about, and nobody the
Speaker 2: public doesn't know about it. That's their thing that they're
Speaker 2: working on.
Speaker 4: I want to thank you for coming on and talking
Speaker 4: about Hidden Demons Evil visits a small New England town.
Speaker 4: For those that might want to take a look, this
Speaker 4: is a wild Blue Press release. Do you have a
Speaker 4: website or do any social media?
Speaker 2: I'm on Facebook.
Speaker 4: Marjorie Metzger, author, Absolutely thank you so much. Hidden Demons
Speaker 4: Evil visits a small New England town. Marjorie beat Metzger,
Speaker 4: thank you so much for this interview and you have
Speaker 4: a great evening. Good night.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Dan, thank you,