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<v Speaker 1>Because all of the beliefs that lead to negative thoughts,

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<v Speaker 1>that manifest negative aspects in your life, they're all nonsense.

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<v Speaker 1>They're all unnecessary. And you have the power to release

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<v Speaker 1>them all. So probably not going to happen all in

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<v Speaker 1>one session. And that's why I emphasize every single week,

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<v Speaker 1>please listen to these sessions on repeat every day as

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<v Speaker 1>many times as you can. And I know that so

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<v Speaker 1>many of you have emailed me or messaged me and

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<v Speaker 1>said that you've listened repeatedly. And every time you're listening,

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<v Speaker 1>More and more stuff will clear. So please definitely take

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<v Speaker 1>advantage of that.

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<v Speaker 2>What was the voice of Liana Shanti? Up to this

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<v Speaker 2>point in the series, we have spent a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>time looking at the structure of Liana Shanti's digital world.

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<v Speaker 2>We have heard from former students and ex-community members about

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<v Speaker 2>how they found her. And in interview after interview, a

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<v Speaker 2>pattern has emerged. As explained in previous episodes, some clips

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<v Speaker 2>may be repeated throughout the series for context and clarity.

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<v Speaker 2>Here is Jennifer, an ex-student, who spent two years inside

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<v Speaker 2>Liana Shanti's community.

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<v Speaker 3>In my 20s, I developed an autoimmune condition. And then

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<v Speaker 3>during the pandemic in 2020, I was laid off from

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<v Speaker 3>my job. I... was really burnt out, depression and anxiety,

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<v Speaker 3>and I realized I have a lot of trauma, a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of childhood trauma and adult trauma that is leading

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<v Speaker 3>me to this place of burnout. The solution still felt

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<v Speaker 3>really elusive, and that's when I discovered Leanna on Instagram.

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<v Speaker 2>And here is Tammy, another former student.

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<v Speaker 4>I had some health issues that I was working through.

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<v Speaker 4>And I came to her through a mutual friend. There

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<v Speaker 4>are so many kernels of truth littered throughout this practice

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<v Speaker 4>that I'm truly grateful for. Unfortunately, the kernels of truth

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<v Speaker 4>also led to darker pathways.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a pattern former community members and ex-students describe repeatedly.

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<v Speaker 2>A period of vulnerability. A search for answers. and a

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<v Speaker 2>first encounter with content that seemed to speak directly to

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<v Speaker 2>where they were. In the accounts of those who eventually left,

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<v Speaker 2>that content evolved. What began as wellness advice, plant-based eating, juicing,

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<v Speaker 2>and spiritual practice became, in the words of former students,

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<v Speaker 2>something more absolute, a framework that seemed to explain everything.

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<v Speaker 2>And at the centre of that framework were two courses,

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<v Speaker 2>Mother Wound and Father Wound. Mother Wound and Father Wound

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<v Speaker 2>are audio programs sold through Liana Shanti's digital platform. They

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<v Speaker 2>run for several hours and are designed, according to Liana

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<v Speaker 2>Shanti's own instructions, to be listened to on repeat, sometimes daily.

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<v Speaker 2>Zach is a former family member of an ex-community member.

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<v Speaker 2>When his then-wife became deeply involved in Liana Shanti's community,

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<v Speaker 2>he decided to take both the Mother Wound and Father

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<v Speaker 2>Wound courses himself to understand what she was listening to.

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<v Speaker 2>Here is how he describes what those courses contained.

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<v Speaker 5>The mother wounds, it's like a two, three hour program.

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<v Speaker 5>I was listening to a lot because that's what you

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<v Speaker 5>had to do. And you had to write down lots

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<v Speaker 5>of things about your mother and your lifestyle. In the program,

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<v Speaker 5>it made my mom sound like a narcissist. I was like, wow,

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<v Speaker 5>I'm driving in my car, I'm listening to these programs.

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<v Speaker 5>I started cutting my mom off.

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<v Speaker 2>Zach then describes the overall logic of the course progression.

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<v Speaker 5>The mother wounds teaches you your mom's a bad mom,

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<v Speaker 5>cut your mom off. Your dad's a bad dad, cut

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<v Speaker 5>your dad off. Narcissist course, your husband, your boyfriend, everybody

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<v Speaker 5>around you, your family, friends, your growing children are narcissists

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<v Speaker 5>and they're evil. And that's what teaches you.

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<v Speaker 2>And here is Jack, whose own daughter Lisa became involved

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<v Speaker 2>in the community. describing watching those courses enter his family.

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<v Speaker 6>And that's where I think Leanna starts to chime in.

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<v Speaker 6>Here's a free course, listen to it 24-7. And then

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<v Speaker 6>she starts saying, oh, I have this mother wound, a

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<v Speaker 6>father wound. Then it escalated from there. That's what we saw.

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<v Speaker 2>In interview after interview, former students and their family members

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<v Speaker 2>describe the same trajectory, starting with a free taster, then

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<v Speaker 2>purchasing mother wound, then father wound, then the narcissism course.

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<v Speaker 2>And as that progression unfolded, the people around them, their partners,

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<v Speaker 2>their parents, their siblings, began appearing in a different light,

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<v Speaker 2>a darker one. That is the context for this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Because behind every framework, every theory, and every accusation, there

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<v Speaker 2>are people. Today we are stepping back from analysis and

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<v Speaker 2>we are letting the family speak. Two parents, Jack and Anne,

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<v Speaker 2>and a sister, Kristen, the people who watched Someone They

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<v Speaker 2>Love change and then disappear. I'm your host, Casey. This

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<v Speaker 2>is episode four of the Insta Scammer, and this is

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<v Speaker 2>the story of Lisa. First of all, we are going

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<v Speaker 2>to hear from Jack, Lisa's father. This is what Jack

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<v Speaker 2>had to say when I asked him to tell me

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit about Lisa growing up.

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<v Speaker 6>I mean, she was a happy kid. She had a

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<v Speaker 6>good life. She was very smart, very intelligent. Many friends.

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<v Speaker 6>She read a lot. She traveled a lot. It was great.

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<v Speaker 6>It was just great. I was stunned and blown away

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<v Speaker 6>by this. Just blown away.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is what Lisa's mother, Anne, had to say

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<v Speaker 2>about her memories of Lisa as a child.

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<v Speaker 7>She was a beautiful, caring, loving daughter. Like he said,

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<v Speaker 7>she was our travel buddy. She went all over the place.

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<v Speaker 7>She grew up in a wonderful family. We had a

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<v Speaker 7>great life.

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<v Speaker 2>And here is Lisa's sister, Kristen, talking about what she

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<v Speaker 2>thinks about when she thinks of her sister, Lisa.

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<v Speaker 8>So my sister, she's more introverted, but she's absolutely phenomenal

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<v Speaker 8>in social settings. She's beautiful. She's charismatic. She's smart. She

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<v Speaker 8>could talk about anything. We didn't have a lot of

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<v Speaker 8>relationship when we were children. I desperately wanted a sister.

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<v Speaker 8>And I finally got her. Best gift ever. But I

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<v Speaker 8>was nine years old. So there's a big gap. By

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<v Speaker 8>that point, I was, you know, approaching preteens. And then

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<v Speaker 8>by the time I was a teenager, she was the

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<v Speaker 8>annoying kid that was messing with my makeup. and going

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<v Speaker 8>through my clothes and, you know, get out of my room.

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<v Speaker 8>And then by the time I was in my late

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<v Speaker 8>20s and she was in her late teens, now we

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<v Speaker 8>were more peers. Now we started to really connect, not

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<v Speaker 8>just as sisters, but as friends. And she became one

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<v Speaker 8>of my best friends. She came to visit in 2009.

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<v Speaker 8>I had just moved into my house and I had

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<v Speaker 8>an entire itinerary planned. So we went out salsa dancing

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<v Speaker 8>one night and we ate Mexican food and we went

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<v Speaker 8>out to see my friend's band perform. And we had

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<v Speaker 8>a girls night where we made a whole bunch of

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<v Speaker 8>hors d'oeuvres and I invited my friends over and we

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<v Speaker 8>were all hanging out. Yeah, it was just, it was

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<v Speaker 8>a great time.

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<v Speaker 2>By this point in time, I'd been told by Jack

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<v Speaker 2>and Anne about the time Lisa married her husband, Joe.

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<v Speaker 2>And I asked them to give us some insight into

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<v Speaker 2>into their wedding day.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, it was beautiful. It was great.

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<v Speaker 8>It was in a restaurant, an Italian restaurant in Queens,

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<v Speaker 8>New York.

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<v Speaker 5>It was really nice.

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<v Speaker 8>He walked her down the aisle. My sister married them.

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<v Speaker 6>She did.

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<v Speaker 8>They both looked great.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, and we all, in the pictures, you could

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<v Speaker 6>see the family together and happy. It's just, it's hard to, like,

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<v Speaker 6>We've been dealing with this for almost three years now.

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<v Speaker 7>Three?

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<v Speaker 6>Or four years.

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<v Speaker 7>Christmas of 2020 was the last time we saw them.

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<v Speaker 6>She cooked dinner for us.

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<v Speaker 8>She did cook dinner.

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<v Speaker 6>And it was beautiful.

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<v Speaker 8>They left us a note.

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<v Speaker 7>This was the most beautiful Christmas we had together. They

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<v Speaker 7>just enjoyed themselves. We did puzzles and we just hung

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<v Speaker 7>out the whole weekend. It was wonderful. And that was

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<v Speaker 7>the last time. I have a picture of her feeding

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<v Speaker 7>the dogs. on the floor with lights on her head.

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<v Speaker 7>And that's the last that I have.

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<v Speaker 2>I then asked Kristen when she first noticed some changes

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<v Speaker 2>in Lisa's behavior.

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<v Speaker 8>So I think everyone kind of went through some of

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<v Speaker 8>their own unique struggles back in 2020. And my sister

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<v Speaker 8>and I were not exempt from that. So she was

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<v Speaker 8>living in Maine at the time. And they fully embraced

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<v Speaker 8>the mask mandates, the staying at home. She ended up

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<v Speaker 8>spending most of that time isolated in an apartment in

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<v Speaker 8>a rather remote area of Maine. They went to the

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<v Speaker 8>beach one day and they were kicked off the beach.

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<v Speaker 8>They were not permitted to walk on the beach during

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<v Speaker 8>the pandemic, even though no one else was there. And

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<v Speaker 8>I live in North Carolina. You barely knew that the

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<v Speaker 8>pandemic was going on. As soon as they came down in,

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<v Speaker 8>I want to say it was late August or early

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<v Speaker 8>September of 2020. We were getting sunshine and going for

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<v Speaker 8>walks and going to restaurants. And it was so uplifting

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<v Speaker 8>and so wonderful. But despite the reprieve from Maine, I

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<v Speaker 8>think it really affected Lisa. And she was always looking

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<v Speaker 8>for ways to improve herself. But once she came down

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<v Speaker 8>and moved to North Carolina, one of the things that

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<v Speaker 8>I was observing was that everything she pursued was online.

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<v Speaker 8>Meaning her grocery shopping, her clothing shopping, her clients were

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<v Speaker 8>only online relationships. All of her self-help, her books, her podcasts,

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<v Speaker 8>her music, everything was online. And It began to concern

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<v Speaker 8>me because it seemed like she only wanted to live

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<v Speaker 8>in her apartment in an online life. And I don't

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<v Speaker 8>know if there was some like agoraphobia going on or

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<v Speaker 8>maybe it was just a habit and where she was

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<v Speaker 8>very comfortable. When she was talking about being on a

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<v Speaker 8>path and trying to more deeply understand relationships and where

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<v Speaker 8>she was and her own thinking, all the answers she

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<v Speaker 8>was pursuing online, I told her, you need to stop

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<v Speaker 8>pursuing all of these things to fix yourself and fit

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<v Speaker 8>into this mold. And you need to just start living.

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<v Speaker 8>You and Joe, you know, go buy a house. Go

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<v Speaker 8>have some kids. You know, you're in your 30s. Part

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<v Speaker 8>of the reason why you feel unfulfilled and you feel

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<v Speaker 8>a little lost is because you're in limbo. And you're

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<v Speaker 8>not going to find the answers in a course. You're

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<v Speaker 8>not going to find the answers in a book. You're

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<v Speaker 8>not going to find the answers from some person you're following.

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<v Speaker 8>And she was a little upset by that. But it

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<v Speaker 8>was true.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't know if it was Joe or Lisa who

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<v Speaker 6>found Liana. And I guess they got the free course.

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<v Speaker 6>And then from there... They fell into it. They fell

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<v Speaker 6>into it.

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<v Speaker 8>They were isolating themselves.

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<v Speaker 6>And I believe what it was, was when they started

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<v Speaker 6>changing their diet... Absolutely. You know, they were drinking her juices.

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<v Speaker 8>No meat.

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<v Speaker 6>No meat. And I learned that they were doing these

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<v Speaker 6>coffee enemas, but you have to have food, you know?

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<v Speaker 6>So we felt it was draining them.

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<v Speaker 8>Just draining the brain.

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<v Speaker 6>Draining the body. And that's where I think Leanna starts

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<v Speaker 6>to chime in. Here's a free course. Listen to it 24-7.

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<v Speaker 6>And then she starts saying, oh, I have this mother wound,

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<v Speaker 6>a father wound. And then it escalated from there. That's

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<v Speaker 6>what we saw. From what I'm hearing, the stories that

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<v Speaker 6>you've been putting out and other people, it's almost the

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<v Speaker 6>same scenario.

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<v Speaker 8>When she was in Maine, some women that she worked

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<v Speaker 8>with did a program called that I believe had the

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<v Speaker 8>same name, Mother Wound. She kept talking about a healing journey.

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<v Speaker 8>And she had talked to me about a program called

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<v Speaker 8>Mother Wound. Now, I thought she was just talking about

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<v Speaker 8>the same one that she had done before. And she

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<v Speaker 8>began encouraging me to do it. And I was not interested.

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<v Speaker 8>I could tell she was kind of offended by that.

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<v Speaker 8>She was hurt. I really think that she thought this

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<v Speaker 8>was a journey that we were going to take part

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<v Speaker 8>in together. But I wasn't feeling it. We were always

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<v Speaker 8>sharing stuff on Instagram. Like, oh, you should follow this person.

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<v Speaker 8>You should follow that person. And I believe that one

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<v Speaker 8>of the pages that she really wanted me to look

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<v Speaker 8>at was Leona Shanti's. And I do believe I followed her.

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<v Speaker 8>One of the talking points that Lisa really brought up

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<v Speaker 8>with me was that she was very Christ-centric, which I'm

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<v Speaker 8>a Christian, and that she was very, like, anti-pornography. And

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<v Speaker 8>I was like, oh, that's cool. All right. Yeah. So

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<v Speaker 8>I followed her. I remember her also saying, like, she's very, like,

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<v Speaker 8>anti-New Age, you know, just really focused on, like, the

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<v Speaker 8>truths of Jesus Christ. I'm like, all right, great. Sounds

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<v Speaker 8>good to me. But after things turned and I went

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<v Speaker 8>back and looked at this woman's page, I was like,

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<v Speaker 8>wait a minute. All of this is new age. I

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<v Speaker 8>remember I didn't tell her. I didn't want to offend her.

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<v Speaker 8>Because I thought, well, you know, if it's helping her,

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<v Speaker 8>if it's beneficial to her, I'm not going to judge her.

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<v Speaker 8>I think it's great. Those are kind of the conglomeration

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<v Speaker 8>of the first memories I have of the Liana Shanti stuff.

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<v Speaker 8>I think that it started out with the diet.

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<v Speaker 7>And during that period of time, they're listening to Liana

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<v Speaker 7>Shante's courses. Before you know it, they were sucked in.

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<v Speaker 7>She's still listening to this woman 24-7. She has to

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<v Speaker 7>be in order to stay in this state of mind.

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<v Speaker 2>What you are about to hear next isn't a single

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<v Speaker 2>isolated marital conflict. Across multiple interviews, some of which we

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<v Speaker 2>will hear in later episodes, several people describe a similar

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<v Speaker 2>dynamic coming out of the Liana Shanti community. A partner

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<v Speaker 2>gets pulled deeper into the teachings, and the relationship begins

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<v Speaker 2>to hinge on whether the other person will do the

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<v Speaker 2>work too. These are personal accounts, and we can't independently

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<v Speaker 2>verify every detail, But the pattern they describe is eerily consistent,

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<v Speaker 2>even across interviews with people who have never crossed paths

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<v Speaker 2>and never spoken to each other before.

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<v Speaker 8>I don't want to go too much into things that

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<v Speaker 8>Jo has shared. But basically, from what I understand, when

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<v Speaker 8>she really began to get into the teachings of Liana,

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<v Speaker 8>she had expressed to Jo that she didn't think it

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<v Speaker 8>was going to work. And that if it was going

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<v Speaker 8>to work between them, that he needed to get on

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<v Speaker 8>board and he needed to pursue this healing journey with her.

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<v Speaker 8>Joe was very blindsided by it. You know, they had

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<v Speaker 8>lived in New York for a long time. New York

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<v Speaker 8>is very expensive. Money was tight. And then they're living

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<v Speaker 8>in North Carolina. Things are increasingly more just so affordable.

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<v Speaker 8>They're going out to eat. They're enjoying themselves. And this

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<v Speaker 8>was a whole new world for them. So when Lisa

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<v Speaker 8>was like, yeah, I don't think it's going to work.

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<v Speaker 8>I got to do whatever I need to do to

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<v Speaker 8>save this. And so they did do the whole Liana

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<v Speaker 8>Ashanti thing together. They decided to do the Health Mastery Institute.

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<v Speaker 8>He quit his job. She got rid of her clients.

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<v Speaker 8>He said the sound of Liana's voice became like, he's

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<v Speaker 8>so triggered by it. He's like, I can't. He's like

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<v Speaker 8>the hours upon hours upon hours that we listened to her.

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<v Speaker 8>And Lisa was just eating it up. I don't know

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<v Speaker 8>exactly when it was, but he said he had gotten

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<v Speaker 8>to the point where he was suicidal. He would express

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<v Speaker 8>how hard it was and, you know, his mental state,

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<v Speaker 8>how it was declining. She would accuse him of trying

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<v Speaker 8>to manipulate her instead of empathizing with him. And so

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<v Speaker 8>he just said, I can't do this anymore. And he left.

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<v Speaker 8>They did it for close to a year. They had

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<v Speaker 8>moved to Florida because Tampa was on the list of okay,

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<v Speaker 8>safe places. They both lost quite a bit of weight

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<v Speaker 8>from these cleanses and diets. Joe was emaciated, emaciated. I

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<v Speaker 8>believe the first recording she listened to was Mother Wound.

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<v Speaker 8>I know she also listened to Father Wound, a big

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<v Speaker 8>one for her when she also began pointing fingers at people.

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<v Speaker 8>There's a recording about narcissists. Those are the ones that

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<v Speaker 8>stand out to me. And she was listening to them

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<v Speaker 8>over and over and over again, which is something that

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<v Speaker 8>Leanne encourages. She says at the end, you know, put

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<v Speaker 8>them on. Even if you're busy, just listen to it.

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<v Speaker 8>Listen to it two or three more times. you know,

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<v Speaker 8>today and just keep listening to it. In the summer

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<v Speaker 8>of 2021, I was renovating a house. And while I

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<v Speaker 8>was working on the kitchen floor, I decided to listen

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<v Speaker 8>to the one on narcissists. I was a little concerned.

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<v Speaker 8>I had heard a family members that chose to investigate because,

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<v Speaker 8>you know, a family member disappeared and I wanted nothing

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<v Speaker 8>to do with them. And then they got sucked in.

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<v Speaker 8>So I prayed up before listening to it. I was

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<v Speaker 8>kind of shocked. I I listened to it and I

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<v Speaker 8>think to myself, how did my smart, not just smart,

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<v Speaker 8>like brilliant sister, but you know, I suppose if you're

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<v Speaker 8>just in a place and you're open and you listen

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<v Speaker 8>to it enough and very like hypnotic and suggestive language.

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<v Speaker 2>While Jack, Anne and Kristen were trying to reach Lisa,

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<v Speaker 2>the story was playing out on another platform too. On

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<v Speaker 2>Liana Shanti's own Instagram account, Jack was becoming a public figure,

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<v Speaker 2>named fully, discussed and framed for an audience of thousands.

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<v Speaker 2>On one occasion, Liana Shanti posted an Instagram story naming

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<v Speaker 2>Jack's full name directly. It read, Urgent. Please pray for

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<v Speaker 2>the safety of Milana. Jack, Milana's ex-father, is dangerous and

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<v Speaker 2>we believe armed. Police are now involved. I can't give

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<v Speaker 2>any more detail here. I will post his Florida info

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<v Speaker 2>on the EFC website along with additional information. These Satanists

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<v Speaker 2>are very dangerous people. Do not take any of this lightly.

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<v Speaker 2>The source who saw that story has provided this evidence

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<v Speaker 2>to us. On a separate occasion, Liana Shanti posted an

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<v Speaker 2>Instagram story sharing a screenshot of a public Facebook comment

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<v Speaker 2>written by Jack. In her caption she wrote, Thank you

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<v Speaker 2>everyone for sending me tons of screenshots of defamation. A

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<v Speaker 2>lot of these are things I didn't even have. Especially

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<v Speaker 2>where these people contacted you in your DMs privately. Nikki

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<v Speaker 2>just sent me this from Alana's dad, Jack. The comment

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<v Speaker 2>she was calling defamation was this. Jack, writing publicly on Facebook.

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<v Speaker 2>LS is a fraud and divides families for personal gain.

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<v Speaker 2>I know because my daughter and her husband were buyers

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<v Speaker 2>of her programs and put thousands of dollars to her

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<v Speaker 2>and HMI. My son-in-law broke away and begged his wife

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<v Speaker 2>to get out of this cult-like situation, but she refused.

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<v Speaker 2>They make you believe family is the problem and fed

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<v Speaker 2>lies to the point that people start to believe. My

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<v Speaker 2>daughter was loved and now she's gone because of mind-manipulating bullshit.

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<v Speaker 2>Liana Shanti labelled Jack's words defamation. She encouraged her followers

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<v Speaker 2>to send her more of his online activity, and she

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<v Speaker 2>named and described him to an audience that ran into

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<v Speaker 2>the thousands. Across this series, former students and ex-community members

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<v Speaker 2>have described concerns about repetition, suggestion, and what several have

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<v Speaker 2>called a process of confirmation. having their existing beliefs reflected

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<v Speaker 2>back and intensified. An archived version of Liana Shanti's own

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<v Speaker 2>website captured by the Wayback Machine in September 2016 shows

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<v Speaker 2>her writing the following about herself. I have studied NLP

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<v Speaker 2>and also became a hypnotist. I have continued on in

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<v Speaker 2>my studies on both neurogenesis and neuroplasticity and teach courses

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<v Speaker 2>on these subjects. In more recent publicly available recordings, Liana

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<v Speaker 2>Shanti denies this entirely. Here she is in her own words,

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<v Speaker 2>describing her use of neuro-linguistic programming.

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<v Speaker 1>There are plenty of stories of people being subjected to NLP. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>NLP is something I've been accused of doing.

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<v Speaker 8>It's nothing bad. It's neuro-linguistic programming.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't do.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never studied. I... learned about it actually when I

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<v Speaker 1>was in sales, because I was really good at sales

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<v Speaker 1>and people thought I had studied it. And I said, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I never did. And then I looked into it and

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, okay. I can see why people

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<v Speaker 1>think that. So that's just ignorance on their part. Cause

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<v Speaker 1>I never, I never studied. I don't do it. I,

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<v Speaker 1>I do what I do and I'm not ever practicing

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<v Speaker 1>convert hypnotism. I don't, I think she must've meant covert hypnotism.

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<v Speaker 8>I don't do that either.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not a hypnotist and I don't have hypnosis sessions

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<v Speaker 1>with people. People go through my programs and listen to

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<v Speaker 1>my programs and they start to heal. There's a very

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<v Speaker 1>well-known debunked theory called false memory syndrome. That was false

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<v Speaker 1>memory syndrome was a lie concocted by a child molester,

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<v Speaker 1>a man named Peter Freyd, F-R-E-Y-D, if anybody wants to

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<v Speaker 1>look him up. And he claimed that his daughter, who

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<v Speaker 1>was accusing him of raping her as a child, he said,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, this is a false memory.

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<v Speaker 8>This was implanted.

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<v Speaker 1>And after 30 years of trying to get that to

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<v Speaker 1>be accepted, it was never accepted by the American Psychological

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<v Speaker 1>Association or any other diagnostic psychological association.

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<v Speaker 2>When Liana Shanti is confronted with concerns about memory formation

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<v Speaker 2>inside her programs, She often points to something called false

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<v Speaker 2>memory syndrome. She claims it was a debunked theory created

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<v Speaker 2>by a man accused of abuse, and that it was

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<v Speaker 2>never accepted by major psychological associations. But that framing leaves

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<v Speaker 2>out important context. The term false memory syndrome itself was

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<v Speaker 2>never adopted as an official diagnosis. That part is true.

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<v Speaker 2>It does not appear in the DSM. The DSM stands

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<v Speaker 2>for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. It

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<v Speaker 2>is the definitive playbook published by the American Psychiatric Association,

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<v Speaker 2>or APA, used by healthcare and mental health professionals globally

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<v Speaker 2>to diagnose and classify mental health conditions. However, the broader

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<v Speaker 2>science of memory distortion is not controversial. It is well

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<v Speaker 2>established in cognitive psychology that memory is reconstructive and not

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<v Speaker 2>a perfect recording. Suggestion, repetition, authority figures and emotional intensity

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<v Speaker 2>are can all influence how memories are formed, recalled or reframed.

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<v Speaker 2>That does not mean abuse memories are false, it does

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<v Speaker 2>not mean that survivors are mistaken, it means memory is complex.

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<v Speaker 2>Mainstream psychology holds two truths at once. Child abuse is

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<v Speaker 2>very real and tragically common, and human memory is also

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<v Speaker 2>vulnerable to suggestion under certain conditions. Reducing that complexity to

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<v Speaker 2>a moral argument that anyone who questions memory formation is

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<v Speaker 2>defending abusers oversimplifies a nuanced scientific conversation. And in communities

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<v Speaker 2>where authority figures confirm memories without independent evaluation and without

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<v Speaker 2>holding the necessary qualifications, training, and credentials, that nuance becomes

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<v Speaker 2>especially important.

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<v Speaker 8>Lisa would say things like... The body never forgets. So

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<v Speaker 8>she would say, I feel, I would feel uncomfortable around

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<v Speaker 8>certain people. I would have these like flashes of a memory,

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<v Speaker 8>but she couldn't identify who was responsible. Almost like she

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<v Speaker 8>would have a memory of a feeling or a memory

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<v Speaker 8>of a hand or a memory of a pressure or something.

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<v Speaker 2>According to Kristen, when Lisa began to experience what she

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<v Speaker 2>described as fragmentary memories while listening to the recordings, she

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<v Speaker 2>sought guidance from Liana Shanti directly. And in Kristen's account,

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<v Speaker 2>Liana Shanti confirmed those memories, telling Lisa they were real,

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<v Speaker 2>naming who was responsible and telling her there were more.

418
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:34.730
<v Speaker 8>And when she began to experience these things while listening

419
00:27:34.809 --> 00:27:41.720
<v Speaker 8>to the recordings and meditating, she asked, Leanne for confirmation.

420
00:27:42.660 --> 00:27:46.809
<v Speaker 8>And Leanne said, yes, it did happen. And this is

421
00:27:46.849 --> 00:27:50.490
<v Speaker 8>who it happened with. And there were more.

422
00:27:51.809 --> 00:27:53.789
<v Speaker 7>One day she was Lisa and the next day she

423
00:27:53.849 --> 00:27:57.710
<v Speaker 7>was a stranger. I noticed that she was posting things

424
00:27:57.809 --> 00:28:00.670
<v Speaker 7>on her Facebook page that looked strange to me. And

425
00:28:01.690 --> 00:28:04.890
<v Speaker 7>then I watched her starting to lose weight.

426
00:28:06.029 --> 00:28:07.250
<v Speaker 6>She was married at the time.

427
00:28:07.289 --> 00:28:10.390
<v Speaker 7>They still were coming to visit. And then all of

428
00:28:10.470 --> 00:28:14.690
<v Speaker 7>a sudden, out of nowhere, it was, we need some

429
00:28:14.750 --> 00:28:18.710
<v Speaker 7>healing time. We're going through a healing period. And they

430
00:28:18.750 --> 00:28:22.849
<v Speaker 7>kind of just shut us out. And slowly, then the

431
00:28:22.910 --> 00:28:25.119
<v Speaker 7>letters came, cutting us off.

432
00:28:25.859 --> 00:28:28.940
<v Speaker 8>How did you go from that wonderful life to a

433
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:34.759
<v Speaker 8>computer and a mattress? She's not Lisa anymore. When Lisa

434
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.940
<v Speaker 8>wrote me a letter in the beginning of May of 2021,

435
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:43.740
<v Speaker 8>that we weren't going to speak, I just thought she

436
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:46.519
<v Speaker 8>was going through something. And I was like, all right, well,

437
00:28:46.539 --> 00:28:49.039
<v Speaker 8>I'm going to give her her space. And then when

438
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:51.529
<v Speaker 8>my parents came to me in July and said, what's

439
00:28:51.569 --> 00:28:55.869
<v Speaker 8>going on with Lisa and Joe? I thought, oh, man, they,

440
00:28:56.009 --> 00:28:59.109
<v Speaker 8>you know, Lisa and Joe must have told my parents

441
00:28:59.170 --> 00:29:02.390
<v Speaker 8>that they weren't speaking to me. And that must be

442
00:29:02.430 --> 00:29:05.670
<v Speaker 8>what they're talking about. But it was actually that they

443
00:29:05.730 --> 00:29:10.750
<v Speaker 8>wrote my mother and stepfather a letter. when my mother

444
00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:12.789
<v Speaker 8>called me to talk about it, she was like, it's

445
00:29:12.829 --> 00:29:15.349
<v Speaker 8>this Liana Shanti. Is this Liana? And I said, what

446
00:29:15.369 --> 00:29:18.549
<v Speaker 8>are you talking about? And my mother said, it's her,

447
00:29:18.589 --> 00:29:21.430
<v Speaker 8>it's her. And, you know, she was looking at things

448
00:29:21.470 --> 00:29:25.589
<v Speaker 8>that Lisa was posting and she was looking how she

449
00:29:25.630 --> 00:29:29.430
<v Speaker 8>had started a Twitter page. And she specifically said, I'm

450
00:29:29.470 --> 00:29:33.130
<v Speaker 8>just here for Liana Shanti. And that's when we began

451
00:29:33.289 --> 00:29:38.710
<v Speaker 8>putting the pieces together that it wasn't just, I need

452
00:29:38.750 --> 00:29:43.599
<v Speaker 8>some time to heal and consider our family dynamic, but

453
00:29:43.660 --> 00:29:47.079
<v Speaker 8>rather that she was very heavily influenced by someone that

454
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:50.380
<v Speaker 8>she was following. They were disconnecting from us.

455
00:29:50.809 --> 00:29:52.049
<v Speaker 6>Four months, three months, three months.

456
00:29:52.069 --> 00:29:56.049
<v Speaker 8>So it was about a period of, I would say March, April, May, June,

457
00:29:56.430 --> 00:30:00.279
<v Speaker 8>because even June, my birthday, she was like, I hope

458
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.599
<v Speaker 8>you don't mind, but I'm not really sending presents this year.

459
00:30:03.619 --> 00:30:06.259
<v Speaker 8>Happy birthday. That's what I got.

460
00:30:07.460 --> 00:30:10.410
<v Speaker 6>Then it started with, almost a week later, I got

461
00:30:10.450 --> 00:30:11.390
<v Speaker 6>this long letter.

462
00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:11.480
<v Speaker 5>How.

463
00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:17.099
<v Speaker 6>I learned that I was sexually abused by my father. Yeah,

464
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.500
<v Speaker 6>I'm reading this and I'm saying, is this about me?

465
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:25.289
<v Speaker 6>She's saying this? I mean, it was a three-page thing.

466
00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:28.509
<v Speaker 6>I said, and I'm questioning, like, Ann, is she talking

467
00:30:28.529 --> 00:30:31.990
<v Speaker 6>about me? She goes, yeah, I think so. That was

468
00:30:32.029 --> 00:30:34.309
<v Speaker 6>a week later, we got another letter. And then we

469
00:30:34.349 --> 00:30:36.690
<v Speaker 6>learned that Joe's, because we were close to Joe's parents,

470
00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:41.039
<v Speaker 6>they got the same exact letter from Joe. His father

471
00:30:41.059 --> 00:30:44.519
<v Speaker 6>would do anything for him. But the same thing. He

472
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:45.220
<v Speaker 6>was abused.

473
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.980
<v Speaker 2>Before we head into the next section, I need to

474
00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:52.380
<v Speaker 2>give a trigger warning for sensitive content and allegations of

475
00:30:52.460 --> 00:30:55.910
<v Speaker 2>child sexual abuse. Please listen with care and pause the

476
00:30:55.950 --> 00:31:00.490
<v Speaker 2>recording if you need to. By this point, some followers

477
00:31:00.630 --> 00:31:04.069
<v Speaker 2>weren't just changing their diets, routines or belief. They were

478
00:31:04.109 --> 00:31:08.319
<v Speaker 2>being given entirely new names. According to Liana Shanti, these

479
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:13.140
<v Speaker 2>names carried spiritual significance and reflected a person's deeper identity.

480
00:31:14.069 --> 00:31:17.650
<v Speaker 2>But for several former members we spoke to, the practice

481
00:31:17.710 --> 00:31:22.490
<v Speaker 2>represented something else entirely, an increasingly powerful shift away from

482
00:31:22.569 --> 00:31:27.029
<v Speaker 2>who they had been before joining the community. Lisa, who

483
00:31:27.069 --> 00:31:31.250
<v Speaker 2>goes by her new Akashic name Milana Hokulani, has told

484
00:31:31.289 --> 00:31:34.130
<v Speaker 2>her story in two places that are now part of

485
00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:38.599
<v Speaker 2>the public record. on Liana Shanti's own podcast, Deep Throat,

486
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:42.160
<v Speaker 2>and by that I mean Throat Chakra, which she appeared

487
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.720
<v Speaker 2>on voluntarily, and in a legal document she filed herself

488
00:31:45.859 --> 00:31:51.589
<v Speaker 2>with the Hawaii Family Court. On April 14th, 2023, Lisa

489
00:31:51.650 --> 00:31:55.230
<v Speaker 2>filed a petition for an order of protection against her father, Jack,

490
00:31:55.950 --> 00:31:59.710
<v Speaker 2>in the First Circuit Family Court of Hawaii. The petition

491
00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:03.609
<v Speaker 2>was filed under penalty of perjury. In it, she described

492
00:32:03.670 --> 00:32:07.859
<v Speaker 2>her experience as follows. My father groomed and sexually abused

493
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.900
<v Speaker 2>me when I was a child. My most vivid memory

494
00:32:11.019 --> 00:32:13.059
<v Speaker 2>is when he anally raped me when I was six

495
00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:15.369
<v Speaker 2>years old on my parents' bed while my mother was

496
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:18.450
<v Speaker 2>at work. I had stomach pains and trouble using the

497
00:32:18.490 --> 00:32:21.509
<v Speaker 2>bathroom after this, and both of my parents took me

498
00:32:21.569 --> 00:32:25.390
<v Speaker 2>to the hospital to get checked out and given rectal suppositories.

499
00:32:26.809 --> 00:32:31.019
<v Speaker 2>That account, the stomach pains, the hospital visit, the suppositories,

500
00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:34.640
<v Speaker 2>is the same incident Kristen will describe from the outset

501
00:32:34.819 --> 00:32:37.970
<v Speaker 2>in a moment. Here, it is told by Lisa herself

502
00:32:38.190 --> 00:32:42.480
<v Speaker 2>in a sworn legal document. Lisa's petition also describes the

503
00:32:42.500 --> 00:32:48.099
<v Speaker 2>period between 2001 and 2023, stating, I cut off contact

504
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:52.349
<v Speaker 2>with my father in July 2021, and since then he

505
00:32:52.390 --> 00:32:56.029
<v Speaker 2>has cyber-stalked, harassed and bullied me through my social media

506
00:32:56.210 --> 00:33:00.730
<v Speaker 2>and online business. He's also harassed several colleagues and started

507
00:33:00.769 --> 00:33:03.819
<v Speaker 2>an online smear campaign against me and my life coach.

508
00:33:05.289 --> 00:33:08.730
<v Speaker 2>Lisa also described the reason she left Florida for Hawaii.

509
00:33:09.190 --> 00:33:11.930
<v Speaker 2>She writes that it came to her attention, quote, that

510
00:33:11.970 --> 00:33:15.329
<v Speaker 2>my father had been associating with people connected to violent

511
00:33:15.369 --> 00:33:20.529
<v Speaker 2>kidnappers who help parents deprogram adult children. After January 8th,

512
00:33:20.630 --> 00:33:23.029
<v Speaker 2>my father has even stated online that he's been on

513
00:33:23.069 --> 00:33:25.609
<v Speaker 2>a mission to get me back and that I will

514
00:33:25.650 --> 00:33:29.369
<v Speaker 2>need to be deprogrammed. Then he messaged me on March 11th, 2023.

515
00:33:29.349 --> 00:33:31.670
<v Speaker 2>I just want no contact and to never see him again.

516
00:33:35.740 --> 00:33:39.910
<v Speaker 2>Lisa requested a protective order lasting 30 years. A Honolulu

517
00:33:39.930 --> 00:33:44.009
<v Speaker 2>Police Department officer encouraged her to file. On her relationship

518
00:33:44.049 --> 00:33:47.710
<v Speaker 2>with her father, before the memories began surfacing, Lisa also

519
00:33:47.750 --> 00:33:50.589
<v Speaker 2>spoke on Liana Shanti's own podcast, Deep Throat.

520
00:33:51.769 --> 00:33:56.230
<v Speaker 9>I always felt I couldn't be close to him, like

521
00:33:56.319 --> 00:33:57.279
<v Speaker 9>I was repelled.

522
00:33:57.720 --> 00:33:58.980
<v Speaker 8>There wasn't closeness.

523
00:33:59.019 --> 00:34:03.220
<v Speaker 9>We didn't spend one-on-one time together. Anytime I was alone

524
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:12.579
<v Speaker 9>with him... I felt, like, dressed, like, tight. Like I

525
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:13.400
<v Speaker 9>wasn't relaxed.

526
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.000
<v Speaker 2>On a remark her mother once made.

527
00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:22.469
<v Speaker 9>And when I called my mom out on her drinking

528
00:34:22.750 --> 00:34:25.449
<v Speaker 9>and was trying to kind of tell her how I

529
00:34:25.510 --> 00:34:29.789
<v Speaker 9>felt about things that would come up when she was drinking.

530
00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:31.369
<v Speaker 8>She deflected.

531
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:36.559
<v Speaker 9>And one of the things she said to me was, well,

532
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:37.940
<v Speaker 9>maybe one day.

533
00:34:37.780 --> 00:34:40.050
<v Speaker 8>You'll talk to your father about.

534
00:34:39.929 --> 00:34:40.840
<v Speaker 1>Him and his stuff.

535
00:34:42.710 --> 00:34:44.869
<v Speaker 8>And what does that mean? I didn't probe.

536
00:34:45.809 --> 00:34:47.510
<v Speaker 2>And on the memories themselves.

537
00:34:49.309 --> 00:34:51.969
<v Speaker 9>There are things that have come to the surface that because,

538
00:34:52.429 --> 00:34:53.630
<v Speaker 9>you know, my family.

539
00:34:55.150 --> 00:34:56.590
<v Speaker 8>Knows that, you know.

540
00:34:56.610 --> 00:34:59.730
<v Speaker 9>That basically it's like you're too young. You know, you're

541
00:34:59.750 --> 00:35:03.539
<v Speaker 9>too young to have had these things come to the surface.

542
00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:04.239
<v Speaker 8>There's no way.

543
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:06.679
<v Speaker 9>So it's a way to invalidate me.

544
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:07.500
<v Speaker 1>They know the truth.

545
00:35:07.539 --> 00:35:09.539
<v Speaker 9>They know what they did. They know deep down.

546
00:35:09.989 --> 00:35:11.690
<v Speaker 1>They know what they did. They all know what they did.

547
00:35:11.789 --> 00:35:13.250
<v Speaker 1>Jesus knows what they did. And at the end of

548
00:35:13.269 --> 00:35:18.909
<v Speaker 1>the day, people who are really willing to look and

549
00:35:18.969 --> 00:35:21.929
<v Speaker 1>listen to victims will know what they did too.

550
00:35:23.010 --> 00:35:26.780
<v Speaker 2>Those are Lisa's and Liana Shanti's words. She has shared

551
00:35:26.820 --> 00:35:29.860
<v Speaker 2>them publicly and we report them as she told them.

552
00:35:30.940 --> 00:35:35.329
<v Speaker 2>Jack categorically denies all of Lisa's allegations. He disputes that

553
00:35:35.409 --> 00:35:39.090
<v Speaker 2>any abuse occurred. No criminal charges have ever been filed

554
00:35:39.150 --> 00:35:41.989
<v Speaker 2>against Jack, and there has been no criminal conviction.

555
00:35:43.130 --> 00:35:47.130
<v Speaker 8>I would love to talk about the biggest accusation with Jack.

556
00:35:47.949 --> 00:35:53.260
<v Speaker 8>It is a great illustration of how memories are warped.

557
00:35:54.539 --> 00:36:00.519
<v Speaker 8>Little bit of backstory. Lisa... suffered from pretty severe constipation

558
00:36:00.860 --> 00:36:03.780
<v Speaker 8>when she was very small. I don't even think she

559
00:36:03.820 --> 00:36:07.239
<v Speaker 8>was a year old. And so there were certain things

560
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:09.719
<v Speaker 8>that my mother would do. My mom would sit her

561
00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:12.670
<v Speaker 8>on a little potty in front of Sesame Street and

562
00:36:12.809 --> 00:36:15.510
<v Speaker 8>feed her little snacks on a tray just so she

563
00:36:15.550 --> 00:36:19.150
<v Speaker 8>would relax and sit down and go. And the doctors

564
00:36:19.230 --> 00:36:27.949
<v Speaker 8>prescribed laxatives and she was given suppositories, which I think

565
00:36:28.690 --> 00:36:32.750
<v Speaker 8>The memory of the feeling of the insertion of a

566
00:36:32.809 --> 00:36:40.440
<v Speaker 8>suppository has merged into something that it wasn't. Anyway, so

567
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:44.820
<v Speaker 8>now I'm working nights and he's working days. And he

568
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:47.280
<v Speaker 8>calls me at work one night and he said, Lisa

569
00:36:47.380 --> 00:36:48.900
<v Speaker 8>is doubling over in pain.

570
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:50.059
<v Speaker 6>How old was she?

571
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:54.510
<v Speaker 8>She was around six. So I said, I'll leave work

572
00:36:54.590 --> 00:36:57.750
<v Speaker 8>and I'll meet you at the hospital. So that's what

573
00:36:57.789 --> 00:37:00.719
<v Speaker 8>we did. He took her to the hospital, and I

574
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:04.420
<v Speaker 8>met him there. They're going to see if there's any, like,

575
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:09.260
<v Speaker 8>hardening or obstruction. They may order an abdominal X-ray, which

576
00:37:09.619 --> 00:37:11.559
<v Speaker 8>they will definitely see what's going on.

577
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:16.960
<v Speaker 7>We had her in the pediatrics area, and the doctors

578
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:21.610
<v Speaker 7>came to the conclusion that she was constipated. She wasn't

579
00:37:21.650 --> 00:37:25.989
<v Speaker 7>having appendicitis or anything that we thought maybe could be happening.

580
00:37:27.010 --> 00:37:30.719
<v Speaker 7>And they gave her a suppository and sent us on

581
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:31.159
<v Speaker 7>our way.

582
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:36.940
<v Speaker 8>That's it. That was it. Now, Lisa, now this is

583
00:37:37.019 --> 00:37:42.110
<v Speaker 8>what she has shared online. She states that that afternoon,

584
00:37:43.230 --> 00:37:50.469
<v Speaker 8>Jack sexually assaulted her on our parents' bed. And that

585
00:37:50.829 --> 00:37:54.179
<v Speaker 8>it wasn't just, it wasn't just vaginal. It was anal.

586
00:37:55.300 --> 00:37:59.679
<v Speaker 8>and that she was in excruciating pain due to that assault,

587
00:38:01.059 --> 00:38:05.300
<v Speaker 8>he did take her to the emergency room where they

588
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:14.570
<v Speaker 8>diagnosed it as constipation. They administered a suppository and sent

589
00:38:14.610 --> 00:38:15.030
<v Speaker 8>them home.

590
00:38:17.090 --> 00:38:20.630
<v Speaker 7>If that truly happened, that she thinks she was molested

591
00:38:20.730 --> 00:38:23.530
<v Speaker 7>or something from her father, don't you think that those

592
00:38:23.590 --> 00:38:27.489
<v Speaker 7>physicians would have picked up on that? Child Protective Services

593
00:38:27.530 --> 00:38:28.610
<v Speaker 7>would have been called in.

594
00:38:29.130 --> 00:38:31.639
<v Speaker 8>There would have been a record. There would have been

595
00:38:31.659 --> 00:38:37.280
<v Speaker 8>a follow-up. There was nothing. Because it never happened. If

596
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.460
<v Speaker 8>he was your abuser, if he had actually done this,

597
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:43.639
<v Speaker 8>would he take you to the emergency room where his

598
00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:50.280
<v Speaker 8>secrets would be discovered? Now, I called that hospital back in,

599
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:54.880
<v Speaker 8>I think it was 2022. I said, let's just see

600
00:38:54.940 --> 00:39:00.139
<v Speaker 8>if they had the medical records. And unfortunately, they had

601
00:39:00.179 --> 00:39:03.440
<v Speaker 8>gotten rid of them. It was a very unusual number

602
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:06.940
<v Speaker 8>of years that they held on to medical records. And

603
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:11.599
<v Speaker 8>they would have gotten rid of those records, I want

604
00:39:11.619 --> 00:39:14.340
<v Speaker 8>to say, just two or three years before the accusations

605
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:15.360
<v Speaker 8>online came out.

606
00:39:16.489 --> 00:39:20.599
<v Speaker 2>Jack and his family deny these allegations completely. Lisa in

607
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:23.840
<v Speaker 2>her sworn court petition and in her public statements stands

608
00:39:23.900 --> 00:39:27.230
<v Speaker 2>by her account. What we can report as a matter

609
00:39:27.329 --> 00:39:31.059
<v Speaker 2>of verifiable fact is this. No criminal charges have ever

610
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:35.119
<v Speaker 2>been brought against Jack in connection with these allegations. The

611
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:38.500
<v Speaker 2>court that received Lisa's protection petition made no finding on

612
00:39:38.539 --> 00:39:43.949
<v Speaker 2>the merits. The allegations are disputed. And the consequences didn't

613
00:39:44.010 --> 00:39:47.750
<v Speaker 2>stop with one accusation. As contact with the family narrowed,

614
00:39:48.050 --> 00:39:51.500
<v Speaker 2>life kept moving forward. And not everyone was there for it.

615
00:39:52.150 --> 00:39:53.570
<v Speaker 8>Illness. Death.

616
00:39:54.369 --> 00:39:59.699
<v Speaker 2>Milestones missed. Isolation has a cost. Sometimes it's measured in

617
00:39:59.739 --> 00:40:01.719
<v Speaker 2>moments that never come back.

618
00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:05.579
<v Speaker 6>He was close to his grandma and she was getting

619
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:07.800
<v Speaker 6>sick and the last time I posted I was able

620
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:12.119
<v Speaker 6>to message Joe. I said, your grandma is sick and

621
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.000
<v Speaker 6>she's wondering where Joey is. She passed away. He never

622
00:40:15.059 --> 00:40:17.619
<v Speaker 6>saw her. So I bet you that's hurting him now too.

623
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:24.159
<v Speaker 6>And Lisa's brother passed away, my son, my oldest son, December,

624
00:40:24.179 --> 00:40:28.619
<v Speaker 6>right after Christmas. I don't know if she knows. She

625
00:40:28.659 --> 00:40:31.099
<v Speaker 6>might know. I don't know. But Joe didn't know until

626
00:40:31.139 --> 00:40:33.920
<v Speaker 6>he got home that his grandma, that he was close to,

627
00:40:34.820 --> 00:40:35.440
<v Speaker 6>passed away.

628
00:40:36.579 --> 00:40:40.469
<v Speaker 7>Lisa also talked about she was drinking and she was

629
00:40:40.489 --> 00:40:45.570
<v Speaker 7>hooked on drugs, suicidal. She was muted sometime in her

630
00:40:45.610 --> 00:40:46.510
<v Speaker 7>life growing up.

631
00:40:47.190 --> 00:40:50.869
<v Speaker 8>She was never hooked on drugs. She experimented like any

632
00:40:50.949 --> 00:40:52.750
<v Speaker 8>other kid. Never hooked.

633
00:40:53.010 --> 00:40:55.909
<v Speaker 7>When I had the daycare, I had a little girl, Jennifer.

634
00:40:56.789 --> 00:41:03.210
<v Speaker 7>She was not verbal. She had scoliosis. She was born

635
00:41:03.590 --> 00:41:07.250
<v Speaker 7>with many health issues. But she was the happiest little

636
00:41:07.289 --> 00:41:08.449
<v Speaker 7>girl you ever met in your life.

637
00:41:08.570 --> 00:41:11.449
<v Speaker 8>She'd get off that school bus and she'd have her

638
00:41:11.489 --> 00:41:15.739
<v Speaker 8>backpack and she'd laugh. She'd go outside and play. She'd

639
00:41:15.940 --> 00:41:20.380
<v Speaker 8>pick the flowers, but she never spoke. When Lisa came

640
00:41:20.429 --> 00:41:23.400
<v Speaker 8>up with this thing that she was mute, the first

641
00:41:23.460 --> 00:41:28.059
<v Speaker 8>thing that came to my head was, she is using Jennifer.

642
00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:32.530
<v Speaker 8>And Jennifer passed away at 13. All I know is

643
00:41:32.570 --> 00:41:34.650
<v Speaker 8>when Lisa came up with the story that she was

644
00:41:34.750 --> 00:41:39.250
<v Speaker 8>mute at that age, the bell went off in my head.

645
00:41:39.090 --> 00:41:41.469
<v Speaker 7>And I said, she's talking about Jennifer.

646
00:41:41.849 --> 00:41:42.929
<v Speaker 8>She was never mute.

647
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:47.159
<v Speaker 2>According to Anne, those claims don't match the child that

648
00:41:47.340 --> 00:41:51.429
<v Speaker 2>Anne remembers. but in a recorded conversation on Liana Shanti's podcast,

649
00:41:51.469 --> 00:41:56.039
<v Speaker 2>Deep Throat, Lisa walks through her adolescence differently. Not as

650
00:41:56.099 --> 00:42:01.420
<v Speaker 2>scattered teenage struggles, but as symptoms, signs, boxes to be checked.

651
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:04.340
<v Speaker 2>Here is an audio clip from that podcast episode of

652
00:42:04.420 --> 00:42:07.199
<v Speaker 2>Lisa and Liana Shanti discussing this together.

653
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.099
<v Speaker 9>And I showed all the signs, repression, I had the suicidal,

654
00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:16.599
<v Speaker 9>but if I just tick off the boxes, so there

655
00:42:16.659 --> 00:42:22.550
<v Speaker 9>was you know, physical symptoms, tics, the suicide.

656
00:42:22.989 --> 00:42:24.710
<v Speaker 1>You went mute for a summer too, right?

657
00:42:24.750 --> 00:42:28.050
<v Speaker 8>Like a whole summer. Yeah.

658
00:42:28.110 --> 00:42:29.550
<v Speaker 9>Like I get a little bit here and there I

659
00:42:29.550 --> 00:42:32.849
<v Speaker 9>was talking, but you know, I wasn't myself depressed at

660
00:42:32.869 --> 00:42:35.860
<v Speaker 9>high school. Then I, you know, ended up like hooked

661
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:40.710
<v Speaker 9>on weed, the numb, you know, I check off all the,

662
00:42:40.820 --> 00:42:43.380
<v Speaker 9>all those boxes. It's all there, you know, but it's

663
00:42:43.460 --> 00:42:48.840
<v Speaker 9>so normal in my family that, To drink and do drugs.

664
00:42:49.300 --> 00:42:50.940
<v Speaker 9>And I was a participant in it.

665
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:53.079
<v Speaker 8>I was upholding all of it. I was drinking. I

666
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:55.199
<v Speaker 8>was doing the drugs. I was.

667
00:42:58.340 --> 00:43:01.780
<v Speaker 9>Eating the shitty food and trying at certain points to

668
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:04.949
<v Speaker 9>let all that go, but never fully able to do it.

669
00:43:17.269 --> 00:43:21.190
<v Speaker 2>And the allegations didn't stay private. As they were blasted

670
00:43:21.329 --> 00:43:25.469
<v Speaker 2>all over the internet, they expanded into the family business,

671
00:43:26.250 --> 00:43:30.570
<v Speaker 2>into reputations, livelihoods, and decades of work.

672
00:43:31.809 --> 00:43:34.539
<v Speaker 8>So the house that we grew up in was a

673
00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:39.139
<v Speaker 8>high ranch, and the downstairs had an apartment in it.

674
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:42.460
<v Speaker 8>So half of the downstairs was a private apartment, a

675
00:43:42.539 --> 00:43:45.889
<v Speaker 8>legal private apartment. And after a lot of run-ins with

676
00:43:45.929 --> 00:43:50.449
<v Speaker 8>some horrible tenants, my mother decided to pursue her dream

677
00:43:50.750 --> 00:43:54.630
<v Speaker 8>to own a daycare. So Jack, being the carpenter that

678
00:43:54.670 --> 00:43:57.929
<v Speaker 8>he was, he went in and he modified some of

679
00:43:57.969 --> 00:43:59.909
<v Speaker 8>the walls and this and that, and they turned it

680
00:43:59.969 --> 00:44:03.820
<v Speaker 8>into a daycare. I ran a daycare for 25 years.

681
00:44:04.539 --> 00:44:08.139
<v Speaker 8>She tried to smear that. Many, many, many of my

682
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:13.699
<v Speaker 8>clients came forward and said beautiful things about me. And

683
00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:17.619
<v Speaker 8>my business, the children, they all knew that that this

684
00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:20.820
<v Speaker 8>never happened to Lisa. They saw her over the years.

685
00:44:21.110 --> 00:44:22.849
<v Speaker 8>She used to come down and hang out with us

686
00:44:23.750 --> 00:44:29.949
<v Speaker 8>and play. They talk about campaigns. I would hardly think

687
00:44:30.030 --> 00:44:35.289
<v Speaker 8>that people expressing their opinions and looking for like minded

688
00:44:35.369 --> 00:44:39.179
<v Speaker 8>folks is a campaign. However, my sister, what she did

689
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:44.599
<v Speaker 8>was absolutely a campaign. She went public. and created a

690
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:52.010
<v Speaker 8>online form that she was encouraging prior daycare, either the

691
00:44:52.340 --> 00:44:55.070
<v Speaker 8>young people that went there or their parents who had

692
00:44:55.130 --> 00:45:00.570
<v Speaker 8>children go there, to fill out. Because what she was

693
00:45:00.670 --> 00:45:06.349
<v Speaker 8>trying to say was that our mother, not only was

694
00:45:06.389 --> 00:45:10.619
<v Speaker 8>she aware of this imaginary abuse, but that she condoned it.

695
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:17.019
<v Speaker 8>She covered up for my stepfather's indiscretions and that the

696
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:22.400
<v Speaker 8>very bedroom that my sister was allegedly sodomized in was

697
00:45:22.460 --> 00:45:27.940
<v Speaker 8>directly above the daycare. My mother ran that for over

698
00:45:27.940 --> 00:45:34.489
<v Speaker 8>20 years. And during those 20 years, not a single

699
00:45:35.139 --> 00:45:41.250
<v Speaker 8>complaint was ever filed against her for any type of physical, mental, verbal,

700
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:47.739
<v Speaker 8>sexual abuse ever. Nothing but good things to say.

701
00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:51.639
<v Speaker 6>She went to the courthouse and filed a petition of

702
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:54.900
<v Speaker 6>order of protection. That's when I got the letter that

703
00:45:54.940 --> 00:45:57.179
<v Speaker 6>we had a court appearance online. I get up one

704
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.380
<v Speaker 6>Sunday morning, knock on the door, and there's eight cops,

705
00:46:00.699 --> 00:46:04.030
<v Speaker 6>sheriffs all around my house, all ready to draw a gun.

706
00:46:04.050 --> 00:46:06.550
<v Speaker 6>I swear, I was like, what the heck? He goes, well,

707
00:46:06.590 --> 00:46:08.750
<v Speaker 6>I got to serve this letter, you know, order of protection,

708
00:46:08.769 --> 00:46:12.179
<v Speaker 6>you know, to appear in court. And Lisa said, I

709
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:15.159
<v Speaker 6>have guns. So they were all prepared for a shootout,

710
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.219
<v Speaker 6>I guess. You know, we know you have guns in

711
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:19.010
<v Speaker 6>the house. You can either give them to us or

712
00:46:19.030 --> 00:46:20.550
<v Speaker 6>you have to get them off the property until the

713
00:46:20.590 --> 00:46:22.989
<v Speaker 6>case is done. I said, I'll get them off the property.

714
00:46:23.590 --> 00:46:27.550
<v Speaker 6>So we appear online. And now I could see Lisa.

715
00:46:27.849 --> 00:46:29.860
<v Speaker 6>She comes into the courtroom the way we're talking now.

716
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:33.579
<v Speaker 6>And I was like, Oh my God, it doesn't look

717
00:46:33.619 --> 00:46:35.760
<v Speaker 6>like Lisa. So I turned around to the judge, like,

718
00:46:35.780 --> 00:46:38.679
<v Speaker 6>you know, I said, this order of protection for what?

719
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:40.619
<v Speaker 6>And she turns around to Lisa. She goes, well, what

720
00:46:40.659 --> 00:46:43.300
<v Speaker 6>are you doing? Well, I have her blocked on Facebook,

721
00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:46.639
<v Speaker 6>but every now and then I'll friend him, but it

722
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:50.579
<v Speaker 6>takes 24 hours for me to block him again. The

723
00:46:50.619 --> 00:46:53.619
<v Speaker 6>judge goes, you can't do that. So she goes, you

724
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:56.500
<v Speaker 6>have evidence. I said, I got a lot of evidence.

725
00:46:56.659 --> 00:46:59.369
<v Speaker 6>All right, I'm going to postpone the court date. You

726
00:46:59.409 --> 00:47:03.090
<v Speaker 6>gather your evidence. Your father will gather his. The next

727
00:47:03.110 --> 00:47:06.750
<v Speaker 6>time we went to court, Lisa dropped it. So I

728
00:47:06.769 --> 00:47:08.469
<v Speaker 6>had all this evidence ready to give to the judge,

729
00:47:08.550 --> 00:47:12.010
<v Speaker 6>and now I couldn't send it in. We were in court.

730
00:47:12.690 --> 00:47:15.269
<v Speaker 6>I said, I love you, Lisa. And then Lisa throws

731
00:47:15.289 --> 00:47:15.630
<v Speaker 6>her water.

732
00:47:15.650 --> 00:47:15.909
<v Speaker 5>See?

733
00:47:16.150 --> 00:47:18.929
<v Speaker 6>He's stalking, whatever. And the judge goes, I can't do that. Well,

734
00:47:18.989 --> 00:47:20.349
<v Speaker 6>I did, and that was it.

735
00:47:21.230 --> 00:47:25.070
<v Speaker 2>Hawaii Family Court records confirm this. Lisa did file a

736
00:47:25.090 --> 00:47:28.639
<v Speaker 2>petition for an order of protection against her father. filed

737
00:47:28.780 --> 00:47:34.079
<v Speaker 2>April 14th, 2023, filed under penalty of perjury, filed in

738
00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:37.239
<v Speaker 2>her own name, served with the assistance of the Honolulu

739
00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Police Department. But those same court records also show that

740
00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:45.219
<v Speaker 2>12 days later, on April 26th, Lisa filed a motion

741
00:47:45.260 --> 00:47:49.429
<v Speaker 2>to dissolve that petition herself. She wrote to the court, quote,

742
00:47:49.909 --> 00:47:52.449
<v Speaker 2>I must dissolve my request for an order of protection.

743
00:47:52.909 --> 00:47:55.250
<v Speaker 2>When I recently came to Hawaii, this put 6,000 miles

744
00:47:55.269 --> 00:47:58.599
<v Speaker 2>between us. and I'm choosing to find some relief in

745
00:47:58.659 --> 00:48:02.239
<v Speaker 2>that at this time. The court made no finding on

746
00:48:02.260 --> 00:48:05.809
<v Speaker 2>the merits. That protective order was not dismissed by a judge.

747
00:48:06.349 --> 00:48:11.269
<v Speaker 2>It was withdrawn by Lisa. Lisa described that, now she

748
00:48:11.289 --> 00:48:14.690
<v Speaker 2>had put 6,000 miles between herself and her family, she

749
00:48:14.750 --> 00:48:16.949
<v Speaker 2>wanted to try and find some relief in that distance.

750
00:48:17.550 --> 00:48:21.090
<v Speaker 2>But on Lajana Shanti's own podcast platform, the same events

751
00:48:21.150 --> 00:48:22.630
<v Speaker 2>were framed very differently.

752
00:48:23.849 --> 00:48:27.929
<v Speaker 1>So today I have a really amazing woman. This woman

753
00:48:28.210 --> 00:48:32.130
<v Speaker 1>to me is the epitome of everything that Jesus speaks

754
00:48:32.210 --> 00:48:35.139
<v Speaker 1>about when he talks about someone who is brave, someone

755
00:48:35.179 --> 00:48:37.579
<v Speaker 1>who is courageous, someone who is standing in the light

756
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:41.940
<v Speaker 1>of Jesus, someone who is willing to put themselves out

757
00:48:41.980 --> 00:48:46.880
<v Speaker 1>there despite the attacks, despite the slander, and despite an

758
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:51.989
<v Speaker 1>all-out effort by her family to completely quiet and silence her.

759
00:48:52.550 --> 00:48:55.820
<v Speaker 1>and going to great lengths to do that. And she

760
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:59.699
<v Speaker 1>has been thriving. She's an amazing, amazing human being. And

761
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:03.360
<v Speaker 1>unfortunately today, she's coming to us on the podcast from

762
00:49:03.380 --> 00:49:07.460
<v Speaker 1>an undisclosed location because just a couple of days ago,

763
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:13.190
<v Speaker 1>there was a very serious attempt to bring her back

764
00:49:13.230 --> 00:49:15.289
<v Speaker 1>into the family cult. And I can't go into details

765
00:49:15.329 --> 00:49:18.889
<v Speaker 1>about that because it involves legal issues, but we are

766
00:49:18.969 --> 00:49:22.840
<v Speaker 1>literally talking... to her today from an undisclosed location.

767
00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:29.960
<v Speaker 2>After the accusations, the court filings, the podcasts, what remains

768
00:49:30.219 --> 00:49:35.860
<v Speaker 2>is something quieter. A family still speaking into the silence.

769
00:49:37.460 --> 00:49:40.630
<v Speaker 6>I would like to say that we're still here. I

770
00:49:40.670 --> 00:49:42.809
<v Speaker 6>love you very much. I hope everything's well for you,

771
00:49:42.849 --> 00:49:47.239
<v Speaker 6>but at least let's talk about what you're allocating against me.

772
00:49:47.260 --> 00:49:49.590
<v Speaker 6>I mean, you know, let me have my say. It's

773
00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:50.400
<v Speaker 6>only one way.

774
00:49:50.420 --> 00:49:51.980
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, exactly.

775
00:49:52.340 --> 00:49:55.219
<v Speaker 6>I even mentioned to Leanna, you know, posted on there

776
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:56.579
<v Speaker 6>and all that, you know, to get it out there.

777
00:49:56.900 --> 00:49:59.599
<v Speaker 6>Let's do a podcast. I know it'll never happen, but

778
00:49:59.619 --> 00:50:02.059
<v Speaker 6>why don't you get me on there with Lisa and

779
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:04.519
<v Speaker 6>let's do a podcast. You can ask me anything you

780
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:08.329
<v Speaker 6>want because if somebody molested somebody, they would hide from it.

781
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:10.610
<v Speaker 6>They would not be out in the public. You know,

782
00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:12.179
<v Speaker 6>I got nothing to hide.

783
00:50:12.780 --> 00:50:14.960
<v Speaker 7>And I hope to God somewhere along the way she

784
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.139
<v Speaker 7>comes out of this. We'll always be here, but it'll

785
00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:22.719
<v Speaker 7>never be the same, unfortunately. I just hope God is

786
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:23.599
<v Speaker 7>watching over her.

787
00:50:24.980 --> 00:50:28.610
<v Speaker 6>I just wish I could hold you or see you

788
00:50:28.619 --> 00:50:31.469
<v Speaker 6>before I die. I'm not that young anymore. That's the

789
00:50:31.610 --> 00:50:35.230
<v Speaker 6>one thing I want to see. That's what I want.

790
00:50:35.250 --> 00:50:37.730
<v Speaker 6>I just want her back into my life. It's going

791
00:50:37.750 --> 00:50:40.840
<v Speaker 6>to be different. I mean, but we're here to help anything.

792
00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:43.679
<v Speaker 8>Well, I think some of the best advice that I

793
00:50:43.699 --> 00:50:50.170
<v Speaker 8>received was remember that they are victims. That has been

794
00:50:50.489 --> 00:50:56.570
<v Speaker 8>helpful because you want to retaliate. You want to be angry.

795
00:50:57.550 --> 00:51:00.400
<v Speaker 8>Moving forward, I would like for her to just feel free,

796
00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:04.440
<v Speaker 8>like pursue, be joyful, be happy. Because I think ultimately

797
00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:07.719
<v Speaker 8>if she is pursuing something, And she does feel free

798
00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:11.840
<v Speaker 8>and she doesn't feel under threat that she is more

799
00:51:11.940 --> 00:51:16.059
<v Speaker 8>likely to come to the truth. You know, it's very

800
00:51:16.139 --> 00:51:18.699
<v Speaker 8>easy if someone's in a fearful state to manipulate them.

801
00:51:20.190 --> 00:51:23.730
<v Speaker 8>So nobody's pursuing her. We just want the best for her. And,

802
00:51:23.869 --> 00:51:28.429
<v Speaker 8>you know, yeah, we're probably still going to say Liana

803
00:51:28.469 --> 00:51:32.050
<v Speaker 8>Shanti is not someone that anyone should be following or

804
00:51:32.110 --> 00:51:37.170
<v Speaker 8>listening to because we've seen the destructive patterns. If you

805
00:51:37.190 --> 00:51:39.789
<v Speaker 8>want to speak your truth, we're going to speak ours.

806
00:51:40.989 --> 00:51:45.199
<v Speaker 8>It's so encouraging looking at Joe. Because he's come out

807
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:47.739
<v Speaker 8>of it and he and it took some time, but

808
00:51:47.780 --> 00:51:54.760
<v Speaker 8>he's healed physically, financially, mentally, spiritually, familially, like his family.

809
00:51:55.099 --> 00:52:00.360
<v Speaker 8>They're great. Like he's in a wonderful place. And. You

810
00:52:00.409 --> 00:52:03.110
<v Speaker 8>know that to the point that you said as well,

811
00:52:03.170 --> 00:52:05.789
<v Speaker 8>that like you don't have that closure, like if someone dies.

812
00:52:07.309 --> 00:52:09.949
<v Speaker 8>That's that. But to know that they are somewhat close. So,

813
00:52:09.949 --> 00:52:12.670
<v Speaker 8>you know, that's something he and I have talked about

814
00:52:12.750 --> 00:52:15.110
<v Speaker 8>as well. It's just to sit down and talk with her.

815
00:52:16.250 --> 00:52:21.150
<v Speaker 8>And to know that she's there. But you can't. It's weird.

816
00:52:21.590 --> 00:52:27.170
<v Speaker 8>It's really strange. But I am hopeful. One day. We've

817
00:52:27.210 --> 00:52:30.659
<v Speaker 8>spoke to Joe when he got out at the beginning.

818
00:52:31.480 --> 00:52:34.500
<v Speaker 8>But he's got to get on with his life.

819
00:52:35.239 --> 00:52:35.340
<v Speaker 3>And.

820
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:38.559
<v Speaker 8>You can't keep reminding him and pulling this stuff out

821
00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:42.079
<v Speaker 8>of the closet. He's young. He's half our age. He

822
00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:44.260
<v Speaker 8>has his whole life ahead of him. He finally got

823
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:47.739
<v Speaker 8>a good job. He found himself a nice girlfriend. He's

824
00:52:47.780 --> 00:52:50.199
<v Speaker 8>got to get on. But I have to say, we

825
00:52:50.219 --> 00:52:53.070
<v Speaker 8>didn't only lose a daughter. We lost a wonderful son-in-law.

826
00:52:53.090 --> 00:52:56.489
<v Speaker 8>When's the last time she went out to dinner? When's

827
00:52:56.510 --> 00:52:58.570
<v Speaker 8>the last time she took a walk on a beach?

828
00:52:58.789 --> 00:53:02.150
<v Speaker 8>When's the last time she went shopping? She orders everything

829
00:53:02.190 --> 00:53:05.159
<v Speaker 8>to be delivered to her door. She doesn't go out there.

830
00:53:05.659 --> 00:53:07.869
<v Speaker 8>She was completely isolated. Joe said it.

831
00:53:08.190 --> 00:53:09.989
<v Speaker 7>He said the only thing we ever did was walk

832
00:53:10.010 --> 00:53:12.190
<v Speaker 7>around the property at the condo they were living in.

833
00:53:12.489 --> 00:53:17.989
<v Speaker 8>They never went out. I can sit here and sometimes

834
00:53:18.070 --> 00:53:20.750
<v Speaker 8>imagine the door, knock at the door, and I open it,

835
00:53:20.769 --> 00:53:21.289
<v Speaker 8>and it's hard.

836
00:53:22.710 --> 00:53:24.130
<v Speaker 6>But... I don't know.

837
00:53:24.570 --> 00:53:27.750
<v Speaker 8>Would that ever happen? In my lifetime?

838
00:53:27.769 --> 00:53:28.639
<v Speaker 6>I don't know.

839
00:53:29.239 --> 00:53:33.260
<v Speaker 8>I don't know. That's the hardest part, I think. We're

840
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:33.840
<v Speaker 8>not young.

841
00:53:36.260 --> 00:53:40.860
<v Speaker 2>Isolation doesn't always look like a locked room. Sometimes it

842
00:53:40.900 --> 00:53:45.219
<v Speaker 2>looks like delivery boxes at the front door. Sometimes it

843
00:53:45.260 --> 00:53:52.769
<v Speaker 2>looks like silence stretching across birthdays, funerals, years. For this family,

844
00:53:52.869 --> 00:53:57.510
<v Speaker 2>the fracture isn't abstract. It's the space between a father

845
00:53:57.909 --> 00:54:03.670
<v Speaker 2>and his daughter. A mother and her daughter. An older

846
00:54:03.730 --> 00:54:08.789
<v Speaker 2>sister and and her younger sibling. And the hardest part

847
00:54:09.329 --> 00:54:13.510
<v Speaker 2>isn't what Lisa has said, it's what hasn't been said.

848
00:54:15.210 --> 00:54:19.429
<v Speaker 2>But for some families, waiting wasn't the only option.

849
00:54:19.449 --> 00:54:24.469
<v Speaker 5>I see everything burning down around me. Because I had

850
00:54:24.510 --> 00:54:27.949
<v Speaker 5>to stay undercover, I could not reveal what I know.

851
00:54:28.989 --> 00:54:32.489
<v Speaker 5>I can't tell my children, I can't tell my in-laws

852
00:54:32.699 --> 00:54:37.539
<v Speaker 5>what I know. I'm asking my in-laws for help. And

853
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:40.199
<v Speaker 5>at all this time, they're telling me the totally opposite

854
00:54:40.219 --> 00:54:42.260
<v Speaker 5>than what I'm seeing inside the group. So I see

855
00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:44.710
<v Speaker 5>my whole life, my whole world burning down.

856
00:54:45.670 --> 00:54:48.429
<v Speaker 2>In the next episode of The Insta Scammer, we hear

857
00:54:48.489 --> 00:54:51.769
<v Speaker 2>how some family members decided to take a different approach,

858
00:54:52.630 --> 00:54:56.949
<v Speaker 2>stepping anonymously inside the community to understand what was happening

859
00:54:56.989 --> 00:55:00.739
<v Speaker 2>to their loved ones from within. Join us next time

860
00:55:01.059 --> 00:55:03.500
<v Speaker 2>for episode five of The Insta Scammer.