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<v Speaker 1>Hello, Richard. How are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very well, Richard, how are you?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm good, I'm good.

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<v Speaker 1>Now listen, there's tragedy has befallen us because Callum isn't here.

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<v Speaker 2>He's dead.

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<v Speaker 1>No worse than that. He's on his way to up

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<v Speaker 1>the A one to Scotland. He is currently going up.

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<v Speaker 1>I've just come off the phone with him and he's

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<v Speaker 1>in his car heading north, probably listening to garage and

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<v Speaker 1>Rave because he's down with the kids and he's on

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<v Speaker 1>his way up north and he's going to be photographing

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<v Speaker 1>and talking with a lady who paints beautiful paintings with

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<v Speaker 1>a pheasant feather. So he's going off up there. Is

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<v Speaker 1>it a good enough excuse to miss our guests? I

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<v Speaker 1>think the jury's out.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the dedication is in the room here, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, exactly exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Professionalism.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know that's middle name, Richard, Professionalism, prido. That is as

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<v Speaker 1>you're known as. Although admittedly, of course I didn't go

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<v Speaker 1>to the shooting show. I was doing other things so

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<v Speaker 1>which you two did.

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<v Speaker 2>We barely went to the shooting show. We just ran around,

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<v Speaker 2>got in trouble and got kicked off stands. Mostly and

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<v Speaker 2>didn't get invited to parties.

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<v Speaker 1>I listened to that. You know, I think probably you

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<v Speaker 1>know you didn't miss me that much, except for the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that occasionally my celebrity hedge layer of fame does

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<v Speaker 1>open the doors to occasional drinks parties to people who

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<v Speaker 1>have like my bill hooks, which is well and who.

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<v Speaker 2>They like the angle of your bill hook.

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<v Speaker 3>Well exactly exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Although I haven't been using my billhook much of late today,

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<v Speaker 1>I have been planting.

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<v Speaker 2>Hedges and we've had a family outing, haven't you a.

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<v Speaker 3>Complete family outing? Yes, it was.

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<v Speaker 4>It was.

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<v Speaker 1>We not only had my lovely wife Claire helping, but

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<v Speaker 1>we also had my son Charlie, who's on half term,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the three of us plus Gilby we got

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<v Speaker 1>planting today because it's a funny old thing, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean we about November time, not long after the

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<v Speaker 1>budget we started really quite flapping because we lost two

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<v Speaker 1>very big and one smaller contract for hedge laying because

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<v Speaker 1>the government and its infinite wisdomen has decided to freeze

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<v Speaker 1>the capital works grunts under Country Science Stewardship, which meant

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<v Speaker 1>that a lot of work which we were supposed to

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<v Speaker 1>be doing suddenly stopped and we went, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 1>we have got no income coming. And so I rang

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<v Speaker 1>around some of the farmers who we'd planned work for

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<v Speaker 1>in the future, who had different schemes. And it's remarkable,

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<v Speaker 1>And that's one of those humbling things when you realize

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<v Speaker 1>that actually a you, yourself are valued and also your

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<v Speaker 1>work is valued. Is that these farmers went, okay, we

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<v Speaker 1>can shift some things about. You come and do this,

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<v Speaker 1>you come and get that, And all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>we've now got thirty three days left of the hedging season,

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<v Speaker 1>and we've got thirty eight days work, which try.

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<v Speaker 2>And fit it so working weekends then.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, So therefore there was a complete family outing to

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<v Speaker 1>try and get a load of hedge planting finished for

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<v Speaker 1>one of these said generous farmers who employ us and say, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>come on, go and get this done.

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<v Speaker 3>So, yes, that's what I've been up to.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, I'll be quick with mine because we've got more

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<v Speaker 2>important things to do this week. But I was doing

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<v Speaker 2>TV stuff today briefly. So if you're a TV company

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<v Speaker 2>doing a show and you come to North Wales in spring,

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<v Speaker 2>you decide you're going to do foraging. So it's a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a toss up as to whether we go

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<v Speaker 2>into a woodland or whether we go out on the coast.

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<v Speaker 2>And this time it was on the coast, So it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to be on ITV's Coast and Country. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's ITV Whales's version of Country File. Okay, So I

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<v Speaker 2>went out there and it was basically me standing on

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<v Speaker 2>a beach while media people faft and someone near very

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<v Speaker 2>nearly dropped a incredibly expensive gimbal and camera and broadcast

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<v Speaker 2>rig into the sea water.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh dear, it wasn't your fault, was it.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it wasn't my fault.

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<v Speaker 5>No.

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<v Speaker 2>I just watched and then trying to convert them into

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<v Speaker 2>the idea that you can eat limpets. Really, so this

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<v Speaker 2>is this is the thing. Limpits are a bit like

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<v Speaker 2>game meat. If you cook them correctly, they're actually quite good. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>but you've got most people just boil them and then

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<v Speaker 2>they go, well that tastes like eating a pencil rubber. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but no, there's ways to do it. But for another episode,

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<v Speaker 2>let's do something more important show.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, let's do that.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have our monthly and soon to become we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to have guess more often because we think that

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<v Speaker 1>they're exciting.

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<v Speaker 2>Now we've got more guests than months.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, exactly, that's exactly.

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<v Speaker 4>So.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I've got a free called Chris who is a thatcher,

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<v Speaker 1>and he and I are being world founding together a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>And I also wrote an article about him being a thatcher.

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<v Speaker 1>And I went up on the scaffolding as he was

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<v Speaker 1>doing this thatching. And people come and watch me hedge laying,

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<v Speaker 1>and they get what I do after about fifteen minutes

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<v Speaker 1>of watching, and they think I could probably do that,

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<v Speaker 1>to be honest, and then they ever go and they

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<v Speaker 1>make a bit of a faff of it, and it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't work very well. But to be perfect, I was

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<v Speaker 1>hedge laying is a little bit smoking mirrors.

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<v Speaker 3>It's quiteey to do.

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<v Speaker 1>I sat next to Chris up on this scaffolding and

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<v Speaker 1>watched him. I was what six feet away from where

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<v Speaker 1>he's working, and I watched it work at math one.

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<v Speaker 1>I have no idea how on earth you did that?

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<v Speaker 1>And I stood next to you. It's like a really

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<v Speaker 1>good magician.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>He also happens to have a twin brother called Andy,

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<v Speaker 1>who is not only the younger brother, he's the better

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<v Speaker 1>looking brother, and he's the clever brother. So I thought,

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<v Speaker 1>could we get Chris on and talk about thatching. No,

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<v Speaker 1>because we don't want to know about Chris, because basically

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what he does. It's far too technical.

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<v Speaker 1>So instead I thought, I'm going to get Andy, his

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<v Speaker 1>younger and better looking brother on, because he not only

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<v Speaker 1>understands the thatching gig, having been from this amazing family

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<v Speaker 1>of thatchers, but secondly, he very wisely stopped being a

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<v Speaker 1>Thatcher and he went and joined the army, went into

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<v Speaker 1>the Royal Engineers, which are the only acceptable corps in

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<v Speaker 1>the British Army, because my father was a sapper as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and he went off and did some proper soldiering in places.

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<v Speaker 1>And then he left the army and he went into academia,

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<v Speaker 1>and he suddenly drifted.

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<v Speaker 3>Back to.

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<v Speaker 1>His roots. I guess, and we are too day, Richard

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<v Speaker 1>going to be talking to Andy Dodson, who I think

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<v Speaker 1>is probably the only doctor of reads. Andy Dodson, Hello,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to country.

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<v Speaker 4>Slide, Hi, Richard and Richard. The Doctor's not quite there yet,

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<v Speaker 4>a couple of years left to push, but it's getting

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<v Speaker 4>there slowly a bit. Surely it'll happen one day. Say

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<v Speaker 4>that enough?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, look, do you know you're you're closer to being

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<v Speaker 1>a doctor than our current minister. What's it called is

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<v Speaker 1>for being a solicitor or our Chancellor of the Exchequer

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<v Speaker 1>is to being an economist.

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<v Speaker 2>So therefore, yeah, I've just looked at your CV and

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<v Speaker 2>actually it all seems to be true. So that makes

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<v Speaker 2>you a cut ahead of half of the cabinet at

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<v Speaker 2>the moment.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, yes, quite so, Now andy, why have we got

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<v Speaker 1>you on? And I tell you one of the things

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm fascinated about is as a wildfowler, I spend

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of time in reading beds, and as a

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<v Speaker 1>person who lives in rural Suffolk, I know that the

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<v Speaker 1>water read is something that a lot of our houses

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<v Speaker 1>are factory that I live in a seventeenth century house,

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<v Speaker 1>and once upon a time this was thatched. You can

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<v Speaker 1>tell why the pitch of the roof. Your brother told

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<v Speaker 1>me that, and it's now got tiles on. So tell

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<v Speaker 1>me reads. What are their importance too?

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<v Speaker 3>Well? Houses, I guess.

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<v Speaker 4>So obviously, going back quite a bit, architecture wise, people

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<v Speaker 4>would use whatever material was local to them, and it

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<v Speaker 4>will vary quite a bit. But so you go up

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<v Speaker 4>to Scotland for example, you get the buildings which are

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<v Speaker 4>thatched with heaber, but they're not like I said, you

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<v Speaker 4>come down to Suffolk, Norfolk, et cetera. The traditional material

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<v Speaker 4>used was read for the most part, and then back

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<v Speaker 4>in the eighties or nineties, I can't remember precisely when

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<v Speaker 4>it was changing planning law.

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<v Speaker 1>Like for likes.

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<v Speaker 4>So where you've got listed buildings, what goes off must

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<v Speaker 4>go back on again. So if you've got a read

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<v Speaker 4>property like what yours probably used to be, I guess

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<v Speaker 4>Richard Freeds goes off, it's got to come back on again.

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<v Speaker 4>So therefore the supply, just from a thatching perspective, read

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<v Speaker 4>is important because we need that material to be able

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<v Speaker 4>to keep up with our built environment, heritage and meet

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<v Speaker 4>current planning requirements. And that is on the simplest terms,

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<v Speaker 4>that's why it's important for buildings.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, then, now, am I right in saying that water

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<v Speaker 1>read is a lot longer lasting than straw.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, that is definitely the case. So straw and cone read,

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<v Speaker 4>which you'll tend to find down more down my neckerwards

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<v Speaker 4>in the in the southwest. You looking at somewhere in

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<v Speaker 4>the region about twenty to twenty five years read depending

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<v Speaker 4>on the environment's orientation, house and all the rest of

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<v Speaker 4>it fifty sixty years. My brother has stripped off read

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<v Speaker 4>which has been over over one hundred years old and

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<v Speaker 4>literally just been What will happen is the thatch will

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<v Speaker 4>come up, It will assess the or she will assess

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<v Speaker 4>the roof. Does it all need to come off? Yale?

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<v Speaker 4>If not, the top layer kind of come off and

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<v Speaker 4>you can just keep on overlayering and overlaying it. If

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<v Speaker 4>you look at what my brother's just put up on

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<v Speaker 4>LinkedIn today, there's a really really excellent example of that,

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<v Speaker 4>where that she's just been overlaid and overlaid and overlaid,

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<v Speaker 4>and you get like the meter's worth a thatch. The

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<v Speaker 4>rafters would have failed completely completely snapped, but it will

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<v Speaker 4>be self supporting enough to it's kind of hold its

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<v Speaker 4>own ways up, which is quite incredible. Really.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I saw that post earlier on and it was

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<v Speaker 2>I was thinking, that is how much of that what

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<v Speaker 2>is apparent to structural form is actually the read itself

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<v Speaker 2>is the thatch, and how much is what Like on

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<v Speaker 2>my house, it's all all Welsh slate tiles, so it

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<v Speaker 2>has to be a really strong ridgeboard to support all

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<v Speaker 2>that you know is the read is self supporting. It

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<v Speaker 2>is architecturally stable to a point.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, to a certain degree. I mean the plus side.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, if it's just like a foot worth of

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<v Speaker 4>that load wise, it's not that horrendous. Obviously, the thicker

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<v Speaker 4>it gets, it all kind of last. And there's a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of fudge factor built into kind of rafter design and

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<v Speaker 4>all the rest of it, so it will kind of

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<v Speaker 4>it'll last. But if you look at some of those

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<v Speaker 4>photos and those those ash pole raft is held together

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<v Speaker 4>with their cobwebs and a bit of wishful for thinking,

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<v Speaker 4>really there wasn't much left of them. It was a

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<v Speaker 4>bit so I was like, I looked at it, I

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<v Speaker 4>was like, oh, my life.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I wouldn't want to be crawling around on that route.

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<v Speaker 2>I was about to say, yeah, no.

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<v Speaker 4>And Chris did come a cropper a few years back

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<v Speaker 4>because of the opinion of a year of a certain

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<v Speaker 4>building control officer and said, oh, they'll be fine, and

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<v Speaker 4>my brother said, no, it's not going to last. And

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<v Speaker 4>one did actually well and back and bright in the face,

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<v Speaker 4>and there's a few interesting conversations which went on after that.

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<v Speaker 1>I can imagine one of the things that I'm interested

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<v Speaker 1>with when it comes to water read and stuff like

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<v Speaker 1>this is this is something that your brother highlighted to

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<v Speaker 1>me a few years ago, is that much like thatching straw,

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<v Speaker 1>there is a massive shortage in this country. So we

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<v Speaker 1>here in East Anglia in particular, you know we should

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<v Speaker 1>be and as you said, we now have to we'd

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<v Speaker 1>like for like, so do this where is our reed

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<v Speaker 1>coming from? Because we're not cutting it here, are we?

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<v Speaker 4>So a certain amount is you can go back as

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<v Speaker 4>far as the nineteen twenties. There was an identified shortage

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<v Speaker 4>back then, so but then it started to come more

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<v Speaker 4>to the four in the nineteen sixties with the Rural

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<v Speaker 4>Industry's Bureau raised that this was an increase in problem.

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<v Speaker 4>And then as kind of times have changed and you've

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<v Speaker 4>got in the latter half of the twentieth century, there

247
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<v Speaker 4>was so much wetland drainage and the view is we've

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<v Speaker 4>probably lost up to about fifty percent of our reed

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<v Speaker 4>beds in the second half of the year the century.

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<v Speaker 4>So there's an immediate supply issue there because there's not

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<v Speaker 4>enough of it. And then when you add to that

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<v Speaker 4>the decline in the number of reed cutters and there's

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<v Speaker 4>some really good research carried out a couple of years

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<v Speaker 4>back by a lovely lady called Hannah Millet, who has

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<v Speaker 4>just done a master's in architecture, and she identified there's

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<v Speaker 4>only about thirty five reed cutters and that's including part

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<v Speaker 4>time and semi retired and the whole the UK, including

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<v Speaker 4>Northern Ireland. That's obviously a bit of a problem. So

259
00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:10.799
<v Speaker 4>now depending on whose figures you use supply the usage

260
00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:15.960
<v Speaker 4>you're looking at, estimates of UK grown read about between

261
00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:20.399
<v Speaker 4>ten two two and a half three percent and the

262
00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:25.960
<v Speaker 4>rest is all imported, which has got an absolutely bonkers

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<v Speaker 4>of math.

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00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Where's it coming from? Then, andy all over.

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<v Speaker 4>The globe, so there's quite despite there's quite a lot

266
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.720
<v Speaker 4>which comes over from Poland and Ukraine and certainly from

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<v Speaker 4>my dad when he started getting deliveries back in the nineties.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that was where it was coming from. Was

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<v Speaker 4>that once the island Iron Cerson came down and opened

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<v Speaker 4>up like Eastern Europe, that's it's just going to became

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<v Speaker 4>a watch So Poland, Hungary, Ukraine, Turkey and ridiculously as

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<v Speaker 4>far away as China where it has to be driven

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<v Speaker 4>a thousand miles from the reedbeds to the port and

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<v Speaker 4>then shipped over, which is well. I think one of

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<v Speaker 4>the best things about thatch in regards to whether you're

276
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<v Speaker 4>using straw come red read is it really it should

277
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<v Speaker 4>be a carbon neutral roofing material because the materials obviously

278
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:26.559
<v Speaker 4>biody gradible. Pretty much everything which goes on can be recycled.

279
00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:30.360
<v Speaker 4>But then you've had this huge carbon footprint onto it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's bonkers.

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<v Speaker 2>You've got to think of people are driving around the

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<v Speaker 2>Bucolic English countryside looking at all these wonderful thatch roofs

283
00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:42.360
<v Speaker 2>thinking oh, there we have an ancient local material doing

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<v Speaker 2>it in the natural way. They don't realize that it's

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<v Speaker 2>got more carbon in that process than shipping timber in

286
00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:50.200
<v Speaker 2>from Canada or something like that.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's it's not good. I know that the globe

288
00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:00.600
<v Speaker 4>theater is it's down to be re thatched re thatch

289
00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:04.919
<v Speaker 4>in the eighties, but for some reason there was a

290
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:10.279
<v Speaker 4>decision made to spray on this supposedly fire proof retardant

291
00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:16.039
<v Speaker 4>material on it, which given the fact that well, any

292
00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:20.039
<v Speaker 4>thatching material, the idea is that it automatically sheds moisture.

293
00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.200
<v Speaker 4>So it's a bit of a waste of time anyhow,

294
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<v Speaker 4>But it absolutely trashed the roof completely, and really you've

295
00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:29.919
<v Speaker 4>got now what, thirty years out of a roof which

296
00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:33.799
<v Speaker 4>would have lasted fifty sixty plus. And they have actually

297
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:36.919
<v Speaker 4>kind of put aside a bunch of Norfolk reed to

298
00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.279
<v Speaker 4>re thatch this, which is really good that you're getting

299
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.679
<v Speaker 4>UK grown reed to kind of go back on such

300
00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:44.399
<v Speaker 4>an iconic structure.

301
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:48.159
<v Speaker 1>So they will actually be doing it. So therefore the

302
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:53.360
<v Speaker 1>problem we have, by the sound of it, is the surprise, surprise,

303
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:57.080
<v Speaker 1>we've got habitat loss, so we've got fifty loss of that,

304
00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:01.080
<v Speaker 1>but there aren't the reed cut But am I correct

305
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:04.240
<v Speaker 1>in saying that? Also there are other hands at work

306
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:08.759
<v Speaker 1>who are almost trying to stop read from being cut

307
00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:13.079
<v Speaker 1>because it is perceived now that this sort of management

308
00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:18.400
<v Speaker 1>is somehow bad for nature and bad for wildlife.

309
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:19.440
<v Speaker 3>Is that right?

310
00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:25.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? So the most iconic bird which people kind of

311
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.079
<v Speaker 4>think about when it comes to reedbed is the bitten

312
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.880
<v Speaker 4>and bitten population up and down, up and down, right

313
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:39.880
<v Speaker 4>up until we get to nineteen ninety seven and you'd

314
00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:43.400
<v Speaker 4>only got eleven booming males left. Now, a couple of

315
00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:47.240
<v Speaker 4>years beforehand, you've got the UK bio Diversity Action Plan

316
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:51.200
<v Speaker 4>came out and you read this, and there's this one

317
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:55.079
<v Speaker 4>term which comes out constantly, which is called fabable management.

318
00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:59.880
<v Speaker 4>But if you look at a bit of interpretation favorable management.

319
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.720
<v Speaker 4>Despite the fact, you know you've got march harriers, bearded tipps,

320
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:06.799
<v Speaker 4>et cetera, which all rely and like seven hundred or

321
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:10.400
<v Speaker 4>so species of invertebrate which are which rely on on

322
00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:16.920
<v Speaker 4>reedbed for their habitat, the management is purely based on that,

323
00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:23.039
<v Speaker 4>on kind of supporting the bitten and then from there

324
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.480
<v Speaker 4>the habitat kind of pans have kind of come out

325
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.519
<v Speaker 4>from a couple of case studies which were done in

326
00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:33.039
<v Speaker 4>ninety six, and there've been a little bit of other

327
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.720
<v Speaker 4>research here and there where it's thrown out some quite

328
00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.440
<v Speaker 4>these figures which people have kind of absolutely kind of

329
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.200
<v Speaker 4>hanging themselves out to dry and like this is it.

330
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.720
<v Speaker 4>So if you think back to the show a few

331
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<v Speaker 4>years a couple of years back, which talked about oxy

332
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:52.559
<v Speaker 4>coostin use and when they kind of pushed that out

333
00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:55.000
<v Speaker 4>in Americans and oh, this study said it's not addictive,

334
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:57.960
<v Speaker 4>and ever it was so limited it was bombers. This

335
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.599
<v Speaker 4>has been the case with reed bed. Basically that there's

336
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:03.480
<v Speaker 4>a couple of figures which have been banded around, which

337
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.319
<v Speaker 4>basically the first one is you can leave if you

338
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:09.279
<v Speaker 4>can cut up to thirty percent of it and it

339
00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:12.920
<v Speaker 4>will be fine. And then the other one is that

340
00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:18.359
<v Speaker 4>you need up to twenty hectare or twenty hectares upwards

341
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:24.680
<v Speaker 4>of reed bed for bittens to be successful. But then

342
00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:28.519
<v Speaker 4>there's always a butt. Okay, we've now gone from what

343
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:32.920
<v Speaker 4>eleven booming males in ninety seven and we're we're around

344
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:36.920
<v Speaker 4>about two hundred and thirty four two hundred and forty

345
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.279
<v Speaker 4>something along those kind of lines that the last count.

346
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:47.680
<v Speaker 4>So clearly within the UK there's only about fifty large

347
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.920
<v Speaker 4>scale reed beds. There's only really been two which have

348
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:53.759
<v Speaker 4>been large scale, which have been created over the last

349
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.319
<v Speaker 4>couple of over the last ten to fifteen years. You've

350
00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:58.279
<v Speaker 4>got one in Lake and he just down the road

351
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:02.000
<v Speaker 4>from you in Suffolk, one in Sandy which is just

352
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.920
<v Speaker 4>down from Saint Nits in Bedfordshire, and there hasn't really

353
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:11.359
<v Speaker 4>been much like kind of growth. But despite that, bitter

354
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.799
<v Speaker 4>numbers have gone through the roof. So you would question

355
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:19.599
<v Speaker 4>or do they actually need this this twenty hectares because

356
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:21.759
<v Speaker 4>if you think if that was the case, well would

357
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:24.720
<v Speaker 4>have stayed at a flat there would be no growth.

358
00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:30.119
<v Speaker 2>No, no, how much was studying, how much was supposition

359
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.480
<v Speaker 2>and position they wanted to stay out.

360
00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:35.559
<v Speaker 4>To be fair, I did email one of the one

361
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:39.079
<v Speaker 4>of the researchers who did some of this, and he said, okay, yeah,

362
00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:41.920
<v Speaker 4>I said, you know what, there's some quite limited numbers

363
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:46.440
<v Speaker 4>here and basically said, you know, completely fair point. If

364
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:49.359
<v Speaker 4>you got things back to school, but a long time ago,

365
00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:52.039
<v Speaker 4>if you're doing a science experience, you would typically have

366
00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:54.519
<v Speaker 4>like a control thing and then you would do all

367
00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:58.119
<v Speaker 4>your variables. Well there wasn't You didn't have the bitter

368
00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:01.759
<v Speaker 4>population or the kind of the rebeds kind of being

369
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:04.799
<v Speaker 4>properly managed to have the range of variables. So the

370
00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:08.160
<v Speaker 4>modeling was quite limited. And he did quite say, your

371
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.200
<v Speaker 4>hands up, it's very limited, and really what could do

372
00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:18.160
<v Speaker 4>with happening now that we have Bitten's occupying Give me

373
00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:22.279
<v Speaker 4>a second look at my We've now got had like

374
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:27.839
<v Speaker 4>a twenty twenty seven percent population increase and they've gone

375
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:33.400
<v Speaker 4>from seven sites to one hundred and three, of which

376
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:38.200
<v Speaker 4>only twenty three percent of the bitten population common like

377
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.759
<v Speaker 4>a triple s. I you think, really do we need

378
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.079
<v Speaker 4>all these protections? If you look at what some of

379
00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.400
<v Speaker 4>the other research which has happened over in Holland, they said,

380
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:49.480
<v Speaker 4>oh you can. There's not really a huge amount of

381
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:53.400
<v Speaker 4>difference if you leave you up to fifteen percent just

382
00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:56.200
<v Speaker 4>kind of leave around the edges. There does need to

383
00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.200
<v Speaker 4>be some element of policing. I completely get that, and

384
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.240
<v Speaker 4>I don't I would never for one second say let's

385
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:06.319
<v Speaker 4>go crazy and cut down every single piece of reed,

386
00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:09.440
<v Speaker 4>which we could, but I think there certainly could be

387
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:12.720
<v Speaker 4>a more happy medium.

388
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:16.359
<v Speaker 2>Struck with the cutting of the reeds. I'm thinking about

389
00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:19.599
<v Speaker 2>coppice woodland and saying coppicing hazel so I know how

390
00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:22.880
<v Speaker 2>to you've got one single hazel tree, I know how

391
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.200
<v Speaker 2>to take that and turn that into several and then

392
00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:27.400
<v Speaker 2>how often I can come back to that and get

393
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:29.680
<v Speaker 2>the same crop again and again in some kind of

394
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.000
<v Speaker 2>predictable manner. Is it the same with reed beds? Is

395
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:35.279
<v Speaker 2>it that you cut here and then three years later,

396
00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:38.400
<v Speaker 2>five years later, seven years later you can come back,

397
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:40.720
<v Speaker 2>or do you have to start against somewhere else?

398
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:43.440
<v Speaker 4>It really does depend on what your what you want

399
00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:46.680
<v Speaker 4>to use it for is the so it depends. I

400
00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:49.480
<v Speaker 4>appreciate that's a very very academic answer, but it really

401
00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:56.079
<v Speaker 4>does depend no, so ideally for thatching, what you are

402
00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.759
<v Speaker 4>after is something called single whale, so.

403
00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:07.519
<v Speaker 2>Whale as in the fishish fish shaped.

404
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:12.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yes, so that's the correct that is the correct term.

405
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:17.039
<v Speaker 4>But basically it's cut on an annual basis, and you

406
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:19.480
<v Speaker 4>can get double whale, which is cut every two years.

407
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:23.319
<v Speaker 4>Now the reason why that just typically won't They don't

408
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:26.480
<v Speaker 4>like double whale as much because the reader has been

409
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:30.759
<v Speaker 4>dead for longer, the stems aren't too strong, et cetera,

410
00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:36.480
<v Speaker 4>So preferably you would clean it out. I mean, you

411
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:40.440
<v Speaker 4>do get like a variety of different management techniques depending

412
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:42.720
<v Speaker 4>on what you want to load of what you want

413
00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:45.559
<v Speaker 4>to do with it. You can get management cuts which

414
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:48.279
<v Speaker 4>are every seven years. But if you want to bring

415
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:53.759
<v Speaker 4>a reed bed back into kind of commercial use, if

416
00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:56.680
<v Speaker 4>it's been left to kind of do its own thing

417
00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.440
<v Speaker 4>for five seven years or so, you'll need to go

418
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:04.200
<v Speaker 4>through it will be like a full clear out. You

419
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.400
<v Speaker 4>will probably have to do a shallow burn and burning

420
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:10.599
<v Speaker 4>it nepsepter technique, which will because what happens reeds grow

421
00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:16.160
<v Speaker 4>pretty quickly come November, start to die. All the kind

422
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:18.599
<v Speaker 4>of litter drops down and it gets all clagged up

423
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:22.759
<v Speaker 4>and with the clag reeds will then kind of go up.

424
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.279
<v Speaker 4>They'll start growing up weird angles and stuff like that.

425
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.240
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's not straight, it's not good for what

426
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.079
<v Speaker 4>you want for that jing, so you kind of go in.

427
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:32.720
<v Speaker 4>You then burn it all out and then you can

428
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:38.799
<v Speaker 4>kind of start from scratch. But for the for those

429
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:42.079
<v Speaker 4>who are kind of more into the environmental stuff, I mean,

430
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:48.319
<v Speaker 4>they're talking like, you know, ten fifteen plus years, which

431
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.920
<v Speaker 4>is really not ideal because and does fly in the

432
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:55.400
<v Speaker 4>face of the management evidence because reed bed will naturally

433
00:24:55.440 --> 00:25:00.799
<v Speaker 4>want to see to to car and scrubland. Okay, so

434
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:03.559
<v Speaker 4>I'll automatically start getting all these trees and stuff like

435
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:10.440
<v Speaker 4>that in there. You then are offering purchase for predating

436
00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:15.079
<v Speaker 4>birds as well. And also as you get more and more,

437
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.960
<v Speaker 4>little will build up in the actual in the base

438
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.440
<v Speaker 4>of the bed itself, it will start to dry out.

439
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:24.400
<v Speaker 4>So if you leave it and leave it and leave

440
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:27.559
<v Speaker 4>it will just end up with this overgrown, dried out mess,

441
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:30.279
<v Speaker 4>which is not really much used to anybody.

442
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:32.000
<v Speaker 3>So hold the front page.

443
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:35.720
<v Speaker 1>You aren't going to rewhile the reed bed if you

444
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:36.920
<v Speaker 1>want to go and have it.

445
00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:38.480
<v Speaker 3>No.

446
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Now this is interesting because I spoke to the chap

447
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:48.160
<v Speaker 1>who cuts the reeds down at Hadisko Islands.

448
00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:51.680
<v Speaker 2>You actually spoke to the fellow who cut the reed.

449
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:54.440
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to the fellow who cut the reed rather

450
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.359
<v Speaker 1>than the hay. Yeah, yes, that's a niche reference. It

451
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:01.680
<v Speaker 1>is a very niche reference, especially seeing as he is

452
00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:03.759
<v Speaker 1>the one of the greatest Suffolk writers.

453
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:04.720
<v Speaker 3>God bless him.

454
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, I spoke to the guy who cuts the reeds

455
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:12.759
<v Speaker 1>at Hadisko Island and he was saying that basically it's

456
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:18.359
<v Speaker 1>almost it's a god forsaken job now because he's not

457
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:23.720
<v Speaker 1>allowed to burn the stubble anymore, and he's got some

458
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:28.240
<v Speaker 1>sort of fungus or or rot that's in the base

459
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:30.039
<v Speaker 1>of this thing. Because people say, oh, you've got to

460
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.119
<v Speaker 1>keep it for so long, and then when he cuts it,

461
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.039
<v Speaker 1>it's not very popular with the thatchers, because as you've

462
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:40.599
<v Speaker 1>already said, it's it's basically weakened. But secondly, he said

463
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:44.279
<v Speaker 1>that the regrowth is that if you almost stubble burn it,

464
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.200
<v Speaker 1>it clears out this fungusy type thing he was saying about,

465
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.359
<v Speaker 1>sort of almost like a rust, and he said, and

466
00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:54.200
<v Speaker 1>then it will freshen it all up. But he's not

467
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:57.079
<v Speaker 1>allowed to do that. I mean is that right, is

468
00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:01.920
<v Speaker 1>a sort of a stubble burning is part of read management.

469
00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:04.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and I think you can do deep burn as well.

470
00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:07.400
<v Speaker 4>It's not just a shallow burn. You can go all

471
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:12.079
<v Speaker 4>the way through. And these are kind of approved techniques.

472
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.119
<v Speaker 4>I'm not quite coming out with stuff out of kind

473
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.640
<v Speaker 4>of back of a fag packet and said this this,

474
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:21.359
<v Speaker 4>and this has been kind of approved way back from

475
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:25.599
<v Speaker 4>nineteen ninety six by a book which is actually produced

476
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.720
<v Speaker 4>by the RSPB called Bringing read Beds to Life. So

477
00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:33.799
<v Speaker 4>it is kind of I would say, when I've been

478
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.839
<v Speaker 4>doing my research, is part of my PhD, there is

479
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:40.880
<v Speaker 4>quite a you do get to find this kind of

480
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.400
<v Speaker 4>conflict of information where your people one personal say this

481
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:50.319
<v Speaker 4>and one personal say that. And you do have certain individuals,

482
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:55.720
<v Speaker 4>because of the position which they're in, one of authority,

483
00:27:56.119 --> 00:27:58.440
<v Speaker 4>that they all just kind of make decisions which kind

484
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:03.480
<v Speaker 4>of completely flies the face of the policies which their

485
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.680
<v Speaker 4>own organizations promote. I mean, it is kind of well

486
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:12.200
<v Speaker 4>documented that commercial management of rebeds is not kind of

487
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:16.359
<v Speaker 4>polar opposite to what you're going to need to do

488
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:19.920
<v Speaker 4>to support the environment and the habitat and the bitters

489
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:21.359
<v Speaker 4>and all the rest of it. It's the case of

490
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:27.240
<v Speaker 4>sensibly doing it. But yeah, you're just unfortunately you've got

491
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:32.960
<v Speaker 4>some very very entrenched positions because of because obviously, yeah,

492
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.519
<v Speaker 4>you can understand where people we've lost so much REBD

493
00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:38.160
<v Speaker 4>over the last fifty years. You can, I do kind

494
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:41.160
<v Speaker 4>of get where they're coming from, and they don't want

495
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:46.680
<v Speaker 4>kind of unfettered, unrestricted draining and clear it out again

496
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.920
<v Speaker 4>and turn it into purely for food.

497
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it's a bit like it's a bit like risk management.

498
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:56.519
<v Speaker 2>If you're somebody whose whole job is I don't know,

499
00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.440
<v Speaker 2>fire safety or something like that, or you know, shark attacks.

500
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:02.680
<v Speaker 2>If you're a architects specialists, you say, then the most

501
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:04.799
<v Speaker 2>important thing you should ever do is never go in

502
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:06.960
<v Speaker 2>the water, because you won't get attacked by sharks. Then

503
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:11.279
<v Speaker 2>if your whole thing is reducing the carbon release of

504
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.920
<v Speaker 2>one particular thing, then you're going to be hyper focused

505
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:17.160
<v Speaker 2>on that and not pragmatic management at a wider scale.

506
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:20.720
<v Speaker 2>And I always think this with radical conservation and things

507
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.799
<v Speaker 2>like you know, rewarding or just destroying an entire industry

508
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:27.039
<v Speaker 2>or destroying an entire practice is radical that you should

509
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.759
<v Speaker 2>if you're the one proposing the radical intervention or the

510
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>radical solution. It should the onus should be on you

511
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.400
<v Speaker 2>to prove that that's going to work, not on the

512
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:43.079
<v Speaker 2>existing practice to prove that that, well, the existing practice

513
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:45.519
<v Speaker 2>already has data, the existing practice we already know. Do

514
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:47.359
<v Speaker 2>more of this, less of this, this tends to happen.

515
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:49.920
<v Speaker 2>We can do this instead, we can swap this technique

516
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:52.480
<v Speaker 2>out for that. You already have that to work with,

517
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:55.319
<v Speaker 2>whereas the radical just stop or just turn it over

518
00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:00.200
<v Speaker 2>to something else. Is it's unfair that that should be

519
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:05.759
<v Speaker 2>given immediate priority rather than allowing the process to change itself.

520
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:07.960
<v Speaker 2>That was a really poorly explained thing, Richard.

521
00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:10.880
<v Speaker 1>No, I think I tell what I'm going to put

522
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:15.319
<v Speaker 1>it into a different way. I have just done some

523
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.359
<v Speaker 1>science which will please Andy because he's now an academic,

524
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:20.480
<v Speaker 1>he's no longer a sapper.

525
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, I like this bit yet.

526
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:23.680
<v Speaker 3>Right, So we've.

527
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Done some science which is basically along the lines of

528
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.279
<v Speaker 1>what you're looking at. Is that we now know because

529
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.519
<v Speaker 1>well we yo calls have known for long, long while.

530
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.680
<v Speaker 1>The hedges that you lay is an important part of

531
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:43.240
<v Speaker 1>the rotational management of and the GWCT did some research

532
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:46.799
<v Speaker 1>which said, yes, definitely they are batting above their average.

533
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:48.599
<v Speaker 1>If you lay a hedge in rotator as part of

534
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:52.880
<v Speaker 1>the rotational management of it that they are batting above

535
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:57.519
<v Speaker 1>their average for biodiversity. Now Here in East Aglia, we

536
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:02.319
<v Speaker 1>don't have a lot of livestock, so therefore what we

537
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:06.119
<v Speaker 1>tend to do is that we go to the default setting,

538
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:09.559
<v Speaker 1>which is, oh, I'm going to go and make this

539
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:12.359
<v Speaker 1>quite pretty laid hedge, which is a Midland bullock style.

540
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:15.240
<v Speaker 1>So there's got lots of steaks, lots of binders, and

541
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:17.960
<v Speaker 1>there you go. Isn't that lovely? Everyone looks pretty, seven

542
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:21.319
<v Speaker 1>goes brilliant, It looks like you've done something, and the

543
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:25.240
<v Speaker 1>human brain goes it looks pretty and it looks attractive,

544
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:26.799
<v Speaker 1>so therefore it must be good.

545
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:29.680
<v Speaker 3>Right now. That's all and good.

546
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:34.279
<v Speaker 1>But unfortunately, as Richard testify, is that our coppice woods

547
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:37.079
<v Speaker 1>are in a parlor state here, so therefore we haven't

548
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:41.480
<v Speaker 1>got a huge amount of easily accessible coppice steaks for

549
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:45.480
<v Speaker 1>very few coppiet binders. But also more importantly is the

550
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:49.680
<v Speaker 1>style of Midland bullock style. Hedgelaying is a Midland style

551
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:53.359
<v Speaker 1>and it was supposed to go and stop bullocks from

552
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:54.720
<v Speaker 1>moving from one field.

553
00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:54.799
<v Speaker 3>To the other.

554
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, you don't need to hedge lay wheat on either side.

555
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:03.680
<v Speaker 1>I tell you what, blackgrass isn't going to stop, and

556
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:05.559
<v Speaker 1>that's the only thing that's going to go, and it's

557
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.880
<v Speaker 1>going to go back around not much More's no straying

558
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:12.000
<v Speaker 1>oil seed rape here, not on my watch. So therefore

559
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:16.200
<v Speaker 1>what we did at the Barkers, who are one of

560
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.960
<v Speaker 1>the wonderful farmers in our High Suffolk farm cluster. We've

561
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:24.680
<v Speaker 1>got a test field where we've done different styles of

562
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.240
<v Speaker 1>hedgerow management, and one of which we've just done is

563
00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:33.319
<v Speaker 1>that we laid in steak and bind bound and we've

564
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:35.160
<v Speaker 1>also then next to it, done what we'd call a

565
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:38.279
<v Speaker 1>conservation style, which has got very few steaks in. It's

566
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:42.079
<v Speaker 1>just crooked in place. It's laid a lot lower. Esthetically,

567
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:46.440
<v Speaker 1>it's not half as pretty as what the Midland bullock

568
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.319
<v Speaker 1>style is, the middle and Bullock styles. I sort of thing,

569
00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:50.880
<v Speaker 1>oh yes, I'm going to get three thousand likes on

570
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:53.519
<v Speaker 1>X with that one. If I go and show one

571
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:57.720
<v Speaker 1>of my conservation laid ones, there's about seventy three people go.

572
00:32:57.880 --> 00:32:59.519
<v Speaker 1>I like that because then what they're looking at the

573
00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:01.799
<v Speaker 1>rest of them, what have you done if you run

574
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:03.319
<v Speaker 1>a tractor over it or something.

575
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:04.960
<v Speaker 2>It looks like a linear brush pile.

576
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:05.799
<v Speaker 3>Yes, exactly.

577
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:09.039
<v Speaker 1>But what we're trying to actually say is that in

578
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:14.400
<v Speaker 1>this setting that the esthetics matter bugger all in my mind,

579
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:17.559
<v Speaker 1>and actually it's going to do achieve just the same

580
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:22.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of thing. So I guess what you were almost

581
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.799
<v Speaker 1>trying to say here, or what I'm putting to you, Andy,

582
00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:28.759
<v Speaker 1>is that the management of.

583
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:33.279
<v Speaker 3>Reads so that we get a.

584
00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:38.759
<v Speaker 1>Usable product from it, that it's also possible that this

585
00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:42.519
<v Speaker 1>is a very good thing for conservation, a bit like

586
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:46.160
<v Speaker 1>laying a heedge in conservation style or coppasing a wood

587
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.079
<v Speaker 1>so that you are going to get rejuvenation of stools.

588
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Is that basically almost what you're trying to prove with

589
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:53.000
<v Speaker 1>your PhD.

590
00:33:53.599 --> 00:34:00.319
<v Speaker 4>Yes, absolutely, that is commercial management very much is and

591
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:07.599
<v Speaker 4>will promote when it's unsensibly. Okay, we'll promote wildlife absolutely

592
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:10.760
<v Speaker 4>because I said if you if you just leave it

593
00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:13.440
<v Speaker 4>and leave it and leave it, you know you're going

594
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.159
<v Speaker 4>to lose the habitat. It is as simple as that.

595
00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:20.440
<v Speaker 4>So I don't get why people think, oh, yeah, just

596
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:23.880
<v Speaker 4>leave it twenty years do conservation cuts? I think one

597
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:26.679
<v Speaker 4>of the issues which you get because where you've got

598
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:31.840
<v Speaker 4>the con stewardship grants. There's no real differentiation between the

599
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:36.800
<v Speaker 4>payments you can get. So there you going through and

600
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.159
<v Speaker 4>doing like a full kind of clear out cut, which

601
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:43.159
<v Speaker 4>you would need to bring a rebed back to kind

602
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:46.400
<v Speaker 4>of commercial managements. Takes a lot of work, it's hard going,

603
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:51.639
<v Speaker 4>but there's no differentiation between that and kind of cutting

604
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:56.119
<v Speaker 4>it properly for to be used for thatching, and the

605
00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:58.119
<v Speaker 4>time and effort which goes into that. So you can

606
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.119
<v Speaker 4>kind of go in with your seegia, Mama, cut it

607
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.639
<v Speaker 4>all back, break it up, burn it, be done with it,

608
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:07.679
<v Speaker 4>don't put it for a microhabitat. There's no difference.

609
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:11.079
<v Speaker 1>I mean, what downside is there? So we're going to

610
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:12.719
<v Speaker 1>go in and we're going to go and manage it. Now,

611
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:15.760
<v Speaker 1>it would be true that when I manage a length

612
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:17.840
<v Speaker 1>of hedge, one of the things that I don't do

613
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:20.440
<v Speaker 1>is I don't lay every single hedge on the farm

614
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:23.760
<v Speaker 1>or indeed in that one field any one time, because

615
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:26.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking about it. I don't want a denude habitat.

616
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:29.920
<v Speaker 1>So there must be a downside of cutting reed down.

617
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:32.519
<v Speaker 1>And I suppose the bitten is the thing because they

618
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:35.760
<v Speaker 1>like thick reeds. But I mean, is there a sort

619
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.119
<v Speaker 1>of an optimal amount. So let's say you've got ten

620
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:42.840
<v Speaker 1>hectares of reed bed and let's make it actually realistic

621
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.880
<v Speaker 1>five hectares of reed bed. What proportion would you say

622
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.320
<v Speaker 1>could should be cut so it is commercially viable, but

623
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:53.199
<v Speaker 1>also the fact that you're not denuding the whole landscape

624
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:55.280
<v Speaker 1>just so we've got lots of thatching store that your

625
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:58.480
<v Speaker 1>brother can go and turn into this witchcraft on top

626
00:35:58.519 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 1>of roofs.

627
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:05.039
<v Speaker 4>So I would estimate that you could take up to

628
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:07.480
<v Speaker 4>fifty percent. And I would say it would depend on

629
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:11.639
<v Speaker 4>where you're cutting, because you do want to leave run

630
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:15.800
<v Speaker 4>the peripheries alone because that's where you're going to get

631
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:18.199
<v Speaker 4>that that's where you're going to get your bits and

632
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:21.039
<v Speaker 4>that's where they want to be. But so you can

633
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:26.039
<v Speaker 4>probably take around about fifty percent ish, Okay, that kind

634
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:30.039
<v Speaker 4>of Again, it's like, and you would understand it be

635
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:32.440
<v Speaker 4>in business minutes, you've got to look at kind of

636
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:35.239
<v Speaker 4>the reed cutter. Is it commercially viable to come and

637
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:40.159
<v Speaker 4>do so you're not going to get guys who are

638
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:44.119
<v Speaker 4>going to drive, you know, five hours to do like

639
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:47.440
<v Speaker 4>half hect air or whatever and get like five hundred bundles.

640
00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:50.320
<v Speaker 4>It's got to be it's got to be sufficient that

641
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:53.119
<v Speaker 4>they're going to get that they're going to get the

642
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:53.960
<v Speaker 4>money's worth.

643
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:55.039
<v Speaker 2>Out of it.

644
00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:59.519
<v Speaker 3>What's the process and for cutting reed beds.

645
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:04.000
<v Speaker 4>Well, timing is key. It's kind of the first thing.

646
00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:08.360
<v Speaker 4>Water control is the biggiest. So typically you'll be looking

647
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:13.119
<v Speaker 4>at cutting any you can cut anywhere really from November,

648
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:19.079
<v Speaker 4>once the glitter's gone up until depending on the how

649
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:24.159
<v Speaker 4>warm winter is around about March April sort of time.

650
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:28.760
<v Speaker 4>And this is down to ground nesting birds. Okay, uh

651
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:33.760
<v Speaker 4>and then will the most reed cutters are not actually

652
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:38.239
<v Speaker 4>reed bed owners, they're contractors exactly the same is shoe.

653
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:38.880
<v Speaker 5>Uh.

654
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:41.400
<v Speaker 4>So'll be told right, I can come in and then

655
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:43.519
<v Speaker 4>it will depend on you. They do have a range

656
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:47.239
<v Speaker 4>of different equipment. You've got some really quite jazzy self

657
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:50.719
<v Speaker 4>propelled kind of on tracks, one which will kind of

658
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:54.159
<v Speaker 4>it will come along, open up, drive along, cut it,

659
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:58.079
<v Speaker 4>sling it in the back. It's absolutely fantastic. Or you've

660
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:03.599
<v Speaker 4>got these these gear cutters. Other brands are available.

661
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.559
<v Speaker 1>No, they might sponsor us. No, they might sponsor us.

662
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:08.119
<v Speaker 1>I don't care.

663
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:09.920
<v Speaker 3>I love to see cutters.

664
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:13.360
<v Speaker 4>They're brilliant, But basically i'd say the easiest way it

665
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:16.000
<v Speaker 4>looks like it looks like an old fashioned rotavates. You've

666
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:19.119
<v Speaker 4>got two handles, you've got a motor in front, and

667
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.519
<v Speaker 4>you've got the he'll go along and he'll cut it.

668
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:26.280
<v Speaker 4>They will have a not tire with it, and apparently

669
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:29.000
<v Speaker 4>that's kind of that is key because then you'll get

670
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:33.239
<v Speaker 4>your your bundles and then you go along your cut

671
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:37.840
<v Speaker 4>however much. You'll then go and stack your your bundles

672
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:41.559
<v Speaker 4>up and they need to be dry. Keeping them again,

673
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:43.639
<v Speaker 4>the water level is key. You do not want to

674
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:46.519
<v Speaker 4>be cutting it wet and dropping it into the wet.

675
00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:50.840
<v Speaker 4>They do need to be kind of dry and having

676
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.760
<v Speaker 4>kind of opened up this way, We've had some important

677
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:57.760
<v Speaker 4>stuff and I've been working for dad on on leave

678
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.079
<v Speaker 4>and whatnot before I join the army. You get like

679
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:03.880
<v Speaker 4>a bale of reed turns up and it's been harvested

680
00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:05.840
<v Speaker 4>when it's wet and you open up and oh god,

681
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:11.519
<v Speaker 4>it stinks and it's absolutely molded to how you can't

682
00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:16.320
<v Speaker 4>use it. It's just going to rot. So yeah, and

683
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:18.960
<v Speaker 4>depending on kind of where you are, so up on

684
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.519
<v Speaker 4>the tay, which is the it's one of the biggest

685
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:25.960
<v Speaker 4>areas of REBD within the UK because it's tidal. They

686
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:28.159
<v Speaker 4>can only cut what they can take off in a day,

687
00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:31.360
<v Speaker 4>because obviously you leave it there, it's just going to

688
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:34.599
<v Speaker 4>end up out in the halfway to the Pharaoh Islands

689
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:39.840
<v Speaker 4>pretty quickly, so which is not ideal. So yeah, and

690
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:42.239
<v Speaker 4>storage is also a bit of a problem because you

691
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:46.159
<v Speaker 4>do need to keep it dry. And again, if you're

692
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:49.760
<v Speaker 4>a rebed, if you're contractor, you don't necessarily have a

693
00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:53.840
<v Speaker 4>huge amount like storage space, so you've got to find that.

694
00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:58.639
<v Speaker 4>And you can imagine ten twenty thousand bundles of reed

695
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:00.320
<v Speaker 4>does take up quite a lot of space.

696
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:03.519
<v Speaker 2>You mentioned tidal that and not actually considered that because

697
00:40:03.559 --> 00:40:06.480
<v Speaker 2>I know all about read all my life's been spent

698
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:09.760
<v Speaker 2>on the western half of the country, so it's it's

699
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:13.199
<v Speaker 2>soule tolerant. It will it will live in brackish water.

700
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:17.400
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I mean I spend huge amounts of times

701
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:22.800
<v Speaker 1>during the World fowling season wedged in the reed beds

702
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:27.440
<v Speaker 1>around Hadisko Island, of which there are a massive sea

703
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:32.960
<v Speaker 1>and we have works parties where we cut rides through

704
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:36.760
<v Speaker 1>so you can get to the river frontage, which is

705
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:44.079
<v Speaker 1>tidal estuary, and it's quite a claustrophobic experience. My my

706
00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:48.400
<v Speaker 1>family are all from Southwold and the hen reed beds

707
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.440
<v Speaker 1>and the raid and reed beds and all those places.

708
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:57.119
<v Speaker 1>They were all working reed beds up until relatively recently.

709
00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:05.079
<v Speaker 1>So clearly reed beds as a working entity are a

710
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:07.880
<v Speaker 1>very long standing thing, aren't they handy?

711
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:12.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? Yeah, And you can obviously kind of look you

712
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:17.079
<v Speaker 4>look only despite what you get the lovely Roman mosaics

713
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.039
<v Speaker 4>and you think, oh it's very nice. It's all child

714
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:21.360
<v Speaker 4>and stuff like that. That's just a little snap shots.

715
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:26.400
<v Speaker 4>So the US read for thousands and thousands of years

716
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:32.119
<v Speaker 4>for for thatching. You can there's kind of ancient or

717
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:36.519
<v Speaker 4>ancient as in kind of Tudor level era law about

718
00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:38.199
<v Speaker 4>how much you can cut and when you can cut.

719
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Believe it or not.

720
00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:44.039
<v Speaker 4>Are from up in Lincolnshire, so yeah, it's really is

721
00:41:44.199 --> 00:41:47.159
<v Speaker 4>kind of it's part of the culture. It's been a

722
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:51.360
<v Speaker 4>working environment for for a long time. And I think

723
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:52.679
<v Speaker 4>kind of one of the things that I want to

724
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:57.920
<v Speaker 4>kind of push is that when people think about sustainability,

725
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.519
<v Speaker 4>you know, if they think about kind of carbon footprints

726
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:04.679
<v Speaker 4>and stuff like that, and ultimately you've got three pillars

727
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:08.679
<v Speaker 4>of sustainability, and they don't think about the impact on

728
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:14.840
<v Speaker 4>the people and the social aspect of this, and what

729
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:20.920
<v Speaker 4>if we carry on kind of down the route which

730
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:23.440
<v Speaker 4>we are at the moment where you know, it's kind

731
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:28.599
<v Speaker 4>of just making life so difficult for our red cutters.

732
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:30.960
<v Speaker 4>We're going to lose them. I said, you're only got

733
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:32.880
<v Speaker 4>thirty five at the moment, and that figure is a

734
00:42:32.920 --> 00:42:35.840
<v Speaker 4>couple of years. Oh so it could be a little

735
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:38.280
<v Speaker 4>bit less, it could be a little bit more, and

736
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:40.360
<v Speaker 4>it will go and we'll just lose past a key

737
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:42.159
<v Speaker 4>part of this our heritage.

738
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:47.639
<v Speaker 2>We interrupt this episode to bring you an advert, not

739
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.239
<v Speaker 2>a paid advert, just one that was sent in by

740
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:51.280
<v Speaker 2>one of our listeners.

741
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:53.079
<v Speaker 4>Hi.

742
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:56.000
<v Speaker 5>My name is David Naggs and I run Arbitrary in

743
00:42:56.039 --> 00:42:59.480
<v Speaker 5>in Here in Durham. We specialize and police approve firearm

744
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:02.039
<v Speaker 5>safety cases, which are a great place to start for

745
00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:05.400
<v Speaker 5>anyone applying for a firearm certificate. We have a private

746
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:08.360
<v Speaker 5>range and shoot any caliber from fifty to three hundred

747
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:12.920
<v Speaker 5>yards with various steel targets and also a programmable running target.

748
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:16.480
<v Speaker 5>We run a mini rifle club and do rifle experience

749
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:20.719
<v Speaker 5>days too. We also offer bespoke training courses for stalking

750
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:25.079
<v Speaker 5>and vermin control, and safety courses for actors and security personnel.

751
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:28.599
<v Speaker 5>So find us on our socials at ARC Firearms Training

752
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:33.119
<v Speaker 5>or drop us an email at ARC Training at Bellshouse

753
00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:35.719
<v Speaker 5>farm dot com. Thank you.

754
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:40.400
<v Speaker 2>If you have a small rural business and you would

755
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:43.840
<v Speaker 2>like to have your advert as I suppose you could

756
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.559
<v Speaker 2>call it read out on the Country Slide podcast, then

757
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:53.519
<v Speaker 2>emailers using the link that's in the show notes. I

758
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:57.679
<v Speaker 2>discovered this thing the other day is at Risk Skills Register.

759
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:02.679
<v Speaker 2>It's such a traditional heritage skills and crafts that are

760
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:07.679
<v Speaker 2>begraded on a website like a protected species almost like that,

761
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:11.519
<v Speaker 2>so it's endangered and extinct and red listed and so on.

762
00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:14.159
<v Speaker 2>And I think reed cutting was on therecause I know

763
00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:17.639
<v Speaker 2>highland thatching with heather thatching is on there as almost.

764
00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:21.480
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, that is rare as tend state that there's

765
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:23.679
<v Speaker 4>not very many people who can do that.

766
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:27.360
<v Speaker 2>Now we've got It's not my field, it's the neighbors field,

767
00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:29.960
<v Speaker 2>but I've got my eye on it. It's about ten

768
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.920
<v Speaker 2>to fifteen acres of fairly wet clay bottomed flat field.

769
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:38.480
<v Speaker 2>So I wanted to construct a reed bed and make

770
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:40.280
<v Speaker 2>it into a reed bed, and I had access to

771
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:43.719
<v Speaker 2>a huge excavator and unlimited resources could I do it?

772
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.760
<v Speaker 2>And how would I do it? And how long would

773
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:48.199
<v Speaker 2>it take before it was filled with bittens?

774
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:52.679
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, it can be done, and said they are

775
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:55.480
<v Speaker 4>doing it over I said that down in the project

776
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:58.360
<v Speaker 4>over in sandy Is that's been going on for quite

777
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:02.719
<v Speaker 4>some time. It really does. It does depend on what

778
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:05.199
<v Speaker 4>you want to do with it, because if you are

779
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:09.719
<v Speaker 4>looking at it to kind of bringing it into commercial use,

780
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:14.039
<v Speaker 4>you would kind of design it kind of ever societly differently,

781
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:19.559
<v Speaker 4>and water control is kind of is absolutely key. There

782
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:22.760
<v Speaker 4>are different ways of kind of introducing red. You can

783
00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:25.760
<v Speaker 4>literally go through and little and go in literally plant

784
00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:32.039
<v Speaker 4>or the rhine zones in as well. And then obviously

785
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:36.800
<v Speaker 4>it's just times the water supply is kind of it

786
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.599
<v Speaker 4>is a biggie because they do obviously being a wetland,

787
00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:41.320
<v Speaker 4>they do need a lot of water. And this is

788
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:47.599
<v Speaker 4>when they've looked at doing this over in Norfolk. This

789
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:50.119
<v Speaker 4>is kind of a bit of a limiting factor because

790
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:53.079
<v Speaker 4>of randomly enough of supply of water. They'd love to

791
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:56.719
<v Speaker 4>put more, yeah that they'd they'd love to go have

792
00:45:56.840 --> 00:46:00.159
<v Speaker 4>more reedbeds, but it's because and create them from scratch.

793
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:01.880
<v Speaker 3>Because they've drained it too well.

794
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I mean that's I mean, that's that that

795
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:07.519
<v Speaker 1>people could wax lyrical about the Broads and there's nothing

796
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:11.119
<v Speaker 1>that a noise anyone from Suffolk. More, when people called

797
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:15.360
<v Speaker 1>the Broads the Norfolk Broads, because that is to dismiss

798
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:18.280
<v Speaker 1>all the Suffolk bit of the Broads, you know, Bungie

799
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:20.199
<v Speaker 1>and Beccles and and that sort of way.

800
00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:22.719
<v Speaker 2>I honestly didn't know you hadn't me.

801
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:25.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, well, yes, that's why it's called the Broads.

802
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.079
<v Speaker 3>But people called the Norfolk Broads.

803
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:30.000
<v Speaker 1>And I think it's probably I'd blame visit England or

804
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:33.400
<v Speaker 1>something like that, is they wanted to give it. Well.

805
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:35.679
<v Speaker 1>One of the funny things about the Broads is that

806
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:39.760
<v Speaker 1>the largely the reason it actually arrived was by accident.

807
00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:43.079
<v Speaker 1>It's just people were no, it's not natural. They were

808
00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:46.039
<v Speaker 1>just digging bits and bobs out saying, well, there's some pete,

809
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:48.119
<v Speaker 1>or we're going to go and drain that bit there

810
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:49.039
<v Speaker 1>because that's quite handy.

811
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:49.840
<v Speaker 3>We're going to go and work that.

812
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:53.360
<v Speaker 1>And then these mirrors appeared and and you know, like

813
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:57.920
<v Speaker 1>so much of our landscape, it's not natural. Am I

814
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:01.119
<v Speaker 1>right in saying Andy that One of the amazing things

815
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:05.679
<v Speaker 1>about reeds, they're brilliant for filtering nasty stuff.

816
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:13.199
<v Speaker 4>Ye apps, Yeah, they are absolutely fantastic. So they've got

817
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:16.280
<v Speaker 4>they started off kind of looking at this about forty

818
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:19.960
<v Speaker 4>odd years back, where you've got a heathrow randomly enough

819
00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:23.119
<v Speaker 4>where so where they de ice the planes. Obviously there's

820
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:25.280
<v Speaker 4>a lot of glycol that comes off of it, and

821
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:28.000
<v Speaker 4>the last thing you want is that then running off

822
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:31.440
<v Speaker 4>the off onto the apron and kind of filtering down

823
00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:33.840
<v Speaker 4>into the aquafas so that it goes through and it

824
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:37.360
<v Speaker 4>does filter out and you can use it for sewage works.

825
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:41.320
<v Speaker 4>It's quite common for old mining sites as well. We'll

826
00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:45.400
<v Speaker 4>get rid of heavy metals and stuff like that. Disappointingly enough, though,

827
00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:50.000
<v Speaker 4>it's a fantastic medium for filtering out the nasties. But

828
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:55.639
<v Speaker 4>where it absorbs all the gunk, you can't use it.

829
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:59.119
<v Speaker 4>Nobody would be happy to put that on a roof

830
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:03.480
<v Speaker 4>because you don't know because obviously it's got all this

831
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:05.039
<v Speaker 4>stuff in there, and you just don't know how long

832
00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:09.159
<v Speaker 4>it's gonna last. And ultimately, a thatcher is kind of

833
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:12.519
<v Speaker 4>judged by the quality of their work by its longevity,

834
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:15.679
<v Speaker 4>and it's too much of it, it's too much for gamble.

835
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:19.920
<v Speaker 2>I get you that stuff that's planted in mitigation sites

836
00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:22.599
<v Speaker 2>and the new building sites and things. That's a different species,

837
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:22.960
<v Speaker 2>isn't it?

838
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:25.280
<v Speaker 4>No same species?

839
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:30.480
<v Speaker 1>Is it exactly the same fragi Mighties Australis. That's the one, eh,

840
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:35.559
<v Speaker 1>it is the same species. Yes, Latin I hate, but

841
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:37.599
<v Speaker 1>this is one of the few things I can remember

842
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:43.239
<v Speaker 1>is that Fragimities Australis is read. But I used to

843
00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:46.920
<v Speaker 1>use in virtually every single wild fowling piece I ever

844
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:50.400
<v Speaker 1>wrote for the Shooting Times because I quite like this

845
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:54.920
<v Speaker 1>sort of fragi Mighties Australis. I thought it made me

846
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:57.760
<v Speaker 1>sound clever, so I just used it all the time.

847
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:02.119
<v Speaker 1>Is my backdrop of fragimities or ASTs. So sadly we

848
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:06.639
<v Speaker 1>can use it to filter nasty stuff Fragimities Australist, but

849
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.480
<v Speaker 1>we can't use it as thatching straw. So therefore we're

850
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:13.960
<v Speaker 1>almost gonna have to or a thatching material should I say,

851
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:17.920
<v Speaker 1>we can't, So you'd have to grow it specifically with

852
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:21.400
<v Speaker 1>that in mind that it's got to be for wildlife.

853
00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:24.159
<v Speaker 3>But there is also an end of use that's yeah.

854
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:25.440
<v Speaker 4>Water quality is.

855
00:49:26.920 --> 00:49:27.400
<v Speaker 3>It's key.

856
00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:30.679
<v Speaker 4>You do not want the night rates okay in there,

857
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:32.760
<v Speaker 4>and that's to be fair that's exactly the same with

858
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:36.199
<v Speaker 4>their with straw. You do not want a bunch of

859
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:39.159
<v Speaker 4>nitrates in there because it will just start kind of.

860
00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:43.480
<v Speaker 4>It's just yeah, it doesn't do it any good to

861
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:44.280
<v Speaker 4>put it moildly.

862
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Because one of the things happening in the valley here

863
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:51.119
<v Speaker 2>is someone is talking about setting up a farm cluster.

864
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.760
<v Speaker 2>But for natural flood management, yeah, because I have everything

865
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:56.760
<v Speaker 2>out here is either the bit the flood comes from

866
00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:59.440
<v Speaker 2>or the bit where the flood sits. It's either all.

867
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:01.599
<v Speaker 2>And one of the things we were looking at was

868
00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:03.679
<v Speaker 2>sort of reed beds and things like that, because it's

869
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:07.679
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily natural flood management, but it is. It's catchment

870
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:10.519
<v Speaker 2>for slurry r enough because you can't get everyone to

871
00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:12.559
<v Speaker 2>join the cluster, but they are spreading slurry and they

872
00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:16.440
<v Speaker 2>are doing it in one hundreds and thousands of gallons

873
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:19.239
<v Speaker 2>on huge, huge areas when there's nothing on the ground

874
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:21.239
<v Speaker 2>to take it up. So it's just washing straight back

875
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:23.599
<v Speaker 2>down into the water course. So if we can collect it,

876
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:26.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't get it to catch somewhere other than the

877
00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:29.719
<v Speaker 2>base of a hedge. It's not gonna be great for

878
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:32.119
<v Speaker 2>it's not gonna be great for read bed for thatching,

879
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:33.800
<v Speaker 2>but no one's got a thatch roof around here.

880
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:37.320
<v Speaker 4>The plus side is that reed bed regardless kind of

881
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:42.840
<v Speaker 4>whether it's used for thatching or not, you will still

882
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.000
<v Speaker 4>get the benefit from the species which will.

883
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Choose to live there accidentally do some good.

884
00:50:48.920 --> 00:50:51.599
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yeah, so there will be some kind of Yeah,

885
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:53.559
<v Speaker 4>you can't use for thatching, but there will definitely be

886
00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:56.599
<v Speaker 4>some form of benefit from it if they're not. Reason

887
00:50:56.639 --> 00:50:59.480
<v Speaker 4>you're preventing all the nasties going into the hedges and

888
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:06.400
<v Speaker 4>stuff like that. It's another habitat which you're providing different species,

889
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:07.559
<v Speaker 4>just not for that you.

890
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:12.039
<v Speaker 1>One of the things I'm interested in is you're saying

891
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:15.320
<v Speaker 1>there's thirty five reed cutters left.

892
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:15.960
<v Speaker 3>Now.

893
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:19.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm a bit of an evangelist as a hedge layer,

894
00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:22.960
<v Speaker 1>and so not only do I go and use social

895
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:25.280
<v Speaker 1>media to show what we're doing, but I go off

896
00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:29.320
<v Speaker 1>and I give talks to young farmers clubs, and I

897
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:31.840
<v Speaker 1>go and do things at the Suffolk Show and various

898
00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:34.760
<v Speaker 1>shows around the place, sort of saying not so much

899
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:37.519
<v Speaker 1>look at the beauty of my craft, but more the

900
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:43.440
<v Speaker 1>fact that make hedgerows interesting to people, so therefore they

901
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:47.920
<v Speaker 1>might want to go and perhaps get involved because I think.

902
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.440
<v Speaker 3>We're told by the previous.

903
00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:55.079
<v Speaker 1>Government and this government's adopted it, that there's going to

904
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:59.280
<v Speaker 1>be one hundred and forty five thousand miles of new

905
00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:02.639
<v Speaker 1>hedgerow that are going to be planted in this country

906
00:52:03.880 --> 00:52:07.119
<v Speaker 1>by twenty thirty, which is going to happen because as

907
00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:10.639
<v Speaker 1>when we spoke with Harry Hoblin, who actually grows the plants,

908
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:14.920
<v Speaker 1>saying ain't going to happen. But also my worry is

909
00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:19.239
<v Speaker 1>that we haven't got the infrastructure aid to plant them

910
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:21.800
<v Speaker 1>and then be going forward. We haven't got the individuals

911
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:24.440
<v Speaker 1>who are going to manage those hedgerows well, so therefore

912
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:27.239
<v Speaker 1>they actually maximize their potential. We are going to have

913
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:30.440
<v Speaker 1>lots of lines of lollipops clad in plastic, which will

914
00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:33.599
<v Speaker 1>either wither and die or just be pretty crap because

915
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:38.400
<v Speaker 1>they'll just be like little lollipops. If we're going to

916
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:42.920
<v Speaker 1>get better and more rebeds about, we're going to need

917
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:46.480
<v Speaker 1>to dovetail that with more reed cutters. How do we

918
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:48.760
<v Speaker 1>go about doing it? Do you mean, what's a bit

919
00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:50.639
<v Speaker 1>chicken in the egg? Who do we need first more

920
00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:51.960
<v Speaker 1>rebeds or more reedcutters?

921
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:56.360
<v Speaker 4>A bit of both really, because having spoken as very

922
00:52:56.519 --> 00:53:02.000
<v Speaker 4>knowledgeable guy called Richard Starling. I think he's now semi retired,

923
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:04.880
<v Speaker 4>but he's kind of the fonts of all knowledge when

924
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:10.280
<v Speaker 4>it comes to kind of training up recutters. So the

925
00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:14.440
<v Speaker 4>obviously recutters. Typically it's like a one or two man band,

926
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:18.639
<v Speaker 4>so you know when you're not. It's like with any businessman.

927
00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:21.159
<v Speaker 4>I can imagine when you're training somebody up as a

928
00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:23.559
<v Speaker 4>hedge cutter, as a hedge layer, for example, when you're

929
00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:28.039
<v Speaker 4>not laying hedge, obviously you're losing time and kind of capability.

930
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:32.639
<v Speaker 4>So ideally their kind of recommendation is that there are

931
00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:35.239
<v Speaker 4>some grant. They have trained a few people up over

932
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:38.960
<v Speaker 4>the last ten or fifteen years, this guy called Paul

933
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:43.599
<v Speaker 4>ed Eldridge and Rowan or I can't remember his surname

934
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:45.880
<v Speaker 4>off the top of my head now, which is really annoying.

935
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:49.519
<v Speaker 4>But they were trained up for a grant and you'll

936
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:51.599
<v Speaker 4>kind of do like boat license because obviously you need

937
00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:52.920
<v Speaker 4>your boat a boat to kind of get in and

938
00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:56.559
<v Speaker 4>off the off the beds like chainsaw and that kind

939
00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:58.519
<v Speaker 4>of stuff. And really they do need to come in

940
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:04.519
<v Speaker 4>as somebody who is self employed. But you need it's

941
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:06.039
<v Speaker 4>the chicken and egg. You need the training and you

942
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:08.480
<v Speaker 4>need somebody who is you could idea do with like

943
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:12.840
<v Speaker 4>a couple of years at least of working alongside and

944
00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:17.440
<v Speaker 4>experienced cutter, so that most of the problems which you

945
00:54:17.480 --> 00:54:22.000
<v Speaker 4>would then which would likely come across, particularly in like

946
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:25.639
<v Speaker 4>terms of mechanical issues where where you get you can

947
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:31.360
<v Speaker 4>deal with. But it's and then but it's very seasonal.

948
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:36.719
<v Speaker 4>So what do you do past April? When you when

949
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:40.519
<v Speaker 4>you when you can't cut and you can do that

950
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:43.719
<v Speaker 4>there is kind of like general REBD management and wetland

951
00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:47.840
<v Speaker 4>management which you can do, uh, but obviously it's quite limited.

952
00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:51.639
<v Speaker 4>I mean, but when I was was working with Dad,

953
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:54.280
<v Speaker 4>and this is going back quite a long long time now,

954
00:54:54.719 --> 00:55:02.960
<v Speaker 4>but sedge was your traditional Richmond cereal and you'd be

955
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:06.000
<v Speaker 4>able to cut sedge in summer and you were cut

956
00:55:06.039 --> 00:55:10.159
<v Speaker 4>reading winter. But now sedge is pretty rare. This is

957
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:12.760
<v Speaker 4>either there's not very many people use it. It's certainly

958
00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:14.039
<v Speaker 4>not as commonly used now.

959
00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Instead yes they.

960
00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:21.679
<v Speaker 4>So again you've kind of lost this kind of opportunity

961
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:25.280
<v Speaker 4>where somebody you've got somebody could be doing something else

962
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:28.800
<v Speaker 4>to produce thatchy material over the summer period. So it's

963
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:32.280
<v Speaker 4>really kind of difficult, which is why you do get

964
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:33.960
<v Speaker 4>quite a few part time cutters as well.

965
00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:37.079
<v Speaker 2>This is a bit like the coppering quandary because it's

966
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:39.360
<v Speaker 2>the same sort of thing. If you're harvesting a natural material,

967
00:55:39.719 --> 00:55:44.360
<v Speaker 2>you've kind of got this this enforced period of dormancy

968
00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:46.760
<v Speaker 2>for your work. When everything's growing. You're just sat there

969
00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:49.199
<v Speaker 2>twiddling your thumbs waiting for stuff to grow again, which

970
00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:51.719
<v Speaker 2>is absolutely fine when that was your winter work when

971
00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:53.960
<v Speaker 2>you were a farm laborer and you were doing something

972
00:55:53.960 --> 00:55:55.719
<v Speaker 2>else and then you were plowing, and then you were harvesting,

973
00:55:55.719 --> 00:55:58.199
<v Speaker 2>and then you were back coppering or hedge laying or whatever.

974
00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:03.199
<v Speaker 2>But this, that kind of seasonal work doesn't if you've

975
00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:05.119
<v Speaker 2>now got to dedicate your own entire life to it,

976
00:56:05.239 --> 00:56:07.920
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't make sense on the spreadsheet, does it? Or

977
00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:08.639
<v Speaker 2>in the bank?

978
00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:13.119
<v Speaker 4>Well, yeah, financially it's financially it's yeah, it's hard going.

979
00:56:13.239 --> 00:56:18.440
<v Speaker 4>I mean, the price of reed did jump up significantly

980
00:56:18.840 --> 00:56:24.280
<v Speaker 4>when Putin invaded Ukraine. It kind of went jumped up

981
00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:26.679
<v Speaker 4>to about seven pounds of bundle. It has kind of

982
00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:29.360
<v Speaker 4>calmed down a bit now, but it's still there wasn't

983
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:31.920
<v Speaker 4>really a huge amount of price gain for there over

984
00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:38.079
<v Speaker 4>the previous twenty years or so, despite obviously inflation and

985
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:42.119
<v Speaker 4>everything like that. It's you don't see too many reed cutters,

986
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:45.079
<v Speaker 4>like cutting around in ferraris.

987
00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:49.159
<v Speaker 3>No hedge layers. I mean, you've hit the nail on

988
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:50.039
<v Speaker 3>the head there, Richard.

989
00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:52.480
<v Speaker 1>To be perfectly frank, is that one of the reasons

990
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:57.840
<v Speaker 1>we can't honestly take an apprentice or two we would

991
00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:02.199
<v Speaker 1>need two apprentices to actually make it work, is because

992
00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:07.719
<v Speaker 1>we start hedge laying in September and then we will

993
00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:12.119
<v Speaker 1>finish on the last day of March. Because exactly the

994
00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:16.719
<v Speaker 1>same reason as you've said, Andy, is the nesting birds.

995
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:19.519
<v Speaker 1>You know, with what is hardly much point us go

996
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:22.440
<v Speaker 1>and say, what wonderful conservationists. We are almost suddenly going

997
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:25.840
<v Speaker 1>and laying the thing that the yellow hammer's trying to

998
00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:29.280
<v Speaker 1>nest it. So therefore, you know, we only have a

999
00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:31.599
<v Speaker 1>certain amount of time that we can fit, you know,

1000
00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:36.679
<v Speaker 1>our work in. So it's difficult because I suppose because

1001
00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:42.119
<v Speaker 1>it's a seasonal apprenticeship. Apprenticeships don't work with seasonality, and

1002
00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:46.519
<v Speaker 1>I think so much of these co proper conservation jobs.

1003
00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:49.639
<v Speaker 1>You're doing a lot of the intensive stuff where you've

1004
00:57:49.639 --> 00:57:52.079
<v Speaker 1>got to go and learn a skill do the hard

1005
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:56.920
<v Speaker 1>graft is a winter job because as Richard's correctly said

1006
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:00.159
<v Speaker 1>that used to be done on the farm and it

1007
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:03.199
<v Speaker 1>was the winter work which had been done. So, for example,

1008
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:06.440
<v Speaker 1>back to the hades to go reed beds is the

1009
00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:09.280
<v Speaker 1>reed cutter there. He was the marshman, so he had

1010
00:58:09.320 --> 00:58:12.920
<v Speaker 1>his cattle grazing out on the grazing marshes, and so

1011
00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:15.880
<v Speaker 1>therefore he was moving them about, and then he went

1012
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:18.960
<v Speaker 1>off and he was cutting reeds in the winter when

1013
00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:22.480
<v Speaker 1>he had bought his cattle in undercover, and that was

1014
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:27.039
<v Speaker 1>his winter work. You can't build a modern apprenticeship around that.

1015
00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:29.599
<v Speaker 1>Have you got a solution that you're trying to almost

1016
00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:33.519
<v Speaker 1>think around that? Andy with you with your studies.

1017
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:39.039
<v Speaker 4>It's not something I've looked at specifically. I do know

1018
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:44.280
<v Speaker 4>it's kind of it is kind of a documented issue,

1019
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:47.199
<v Speaker 4>and it's it's a real chicken and egg situation. We've

1020
00:58:47.239 --> 00:58:50.239
<v Speaker 4>got a well, we need the reed beds available to cut.

1021
00:58:50.679 --> 00:58:55.159
<v Speaker 4>At the same time, you know, it's getting people in

1022
00:58:55.639 --> 00:58:57.760
<v Speaker 4>to do it. I mean, it's hard work. I'm perhaps

1023
00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:01.519
<v Speaker 4>whether it's I'm a soft week. I went out a

1024
00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:05.119
<v Speaker 4>couple of years last year and I had a few

1025
00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:09.639
<v Speaker 4>hours with Paul and Row and I was watching what

1026
00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:13.960
<v Speaker 4>they were doing they're cutting a bed up near ludden

1027
00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:17.800
<v Speaker 4>and kind of get and it's hard going. I mean

1028
00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:21.800
<v Speaker 4>even behind one of the seas it's still kind of

1029
00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:24.559
<v Speaker 4>where you get the water. Deer well, they love trapesing

1030
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:28.719
<v Speaker 4>through the reed beds. They trample everything down, so you're

1031
00:59:28.719 --> 00:59:32.320
<v Speaker 4>going to push that through. And then once you've cut

1032
00:59:32.639 --> 00:59:37.400
<v Speaker 4>the reed, an r foot broad bundle will typically be

1033
00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:42.559
<v Speaker 4>about two or three foot in diameter, and if it's

1034
00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:45.760
<v Speaker 4>slightly where it's heavy, you start lugging them around. It's

1035
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:52.000
<v Speaker 4>hard going, it's not you know, it's a physically demanding job.

1036
00:59:53.199 --> 00:59:57.960
<v Speaker 1>One of the biggest challenges and pities I think is

1037
00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:01.079
<v Speaker 1>that I have got the thing somewhere I haven't gotten

1038
01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:06.920
<v Speaker 1>to hand. But I think it's around British universities currently run.

1039
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:13.280
<v Speaker 1>There are eighty eight different courses being run to produce ecologists,

1040
01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:18.960
<v Speaker 1>with something like eight thousand graduates coming out each year

1041
01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:24.159
<v Speaker 1>going for around eight hundred jobs. Now, these are all

1042
01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:28.559
<v Speaker 1>people who are clearly engaged with the natural world. They

1043
01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:33.320
<v Speaker 1>clearly love wildlife in different shapes of form. They've got

1044
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:39.440
<v Speaker 1>specific loves and I think there are so few jobs though,

1045
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:43.039
<v Speaker 1>like you say, as a reed cutter, you would be

1046
01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:46.679
<v Speaker 1>you know, you come from a line of what is

1047
01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:48.920
<v Speaker 1>it your fourth fifth generation Thatcher?

1048
01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:51.599
<v Speaker 4>Your yes, well now with my nephew it's five.

1049
01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so five generations of Thatchers. You decided to go

1050
01:00:56.119 --> 01:00:59.079
<v Speaker 1>and look at the raw material, you know, with a

1051
01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:06.480
<v Speaker 1>scientie an academics eye, and that knowledge though that you

1052
01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:11.800
<v Speaker 1>had because you have that core of being a practitioner

1053
01:01:11.920 --> 01:01:15.719
<v Speaker 1>first and then became an academic second, and also your

1054
01:01:16.039 --> 01:01:19.559
<v Speaker 1>rall engineers background made you understand how structures work. I mean,

1055
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:22.280
<v Speaker 1>that's really quite the golden ticket. And I often think

1056
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:25.679
<v Speaker 1>about what a pity that so many of these young,

1057
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:30.639
<v Speaker 1>very keen ecologists are coming out get thoroughly disillusioned. Half

1058
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:33.559
<v Speaker 1>the time, they end up working for less than minimum

1059
01:01:33.599 --> 01:01:35.599
<v Speaker 1>wage because they end up working for a charity that

1060
01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:39.280
<v Speaker 1>they know that there's fifty applicants for every single role

1061
01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:42.800
<v Speaker 1>that comes up. Why aren't we encouraging them to be

1062
01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:46.719
<v Speaker 1>the next generation of reed cutters, the next generation of

1063
01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:50.199
<v Speaker 1>hedge layers, the next generation of coppices who were all

1064
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:54.599
<v Speaker 1>missing these individuals, you know, because, like I say, the

1065
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:57.159
<v Speaker 1>one thing everyone would like to have more reed beds. Well,

1066
01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:01.440
<v Speaker 1>you've just explained a bed is only going to be

1067
01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:05.559
<v Speaker 1>really punching above its weight for the environment, not only

1068
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:08.440
<v Speaker 1>for wildlife, but also for carbon and all those things,

1069
01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:10.239
<v Speaker 1>because we haven't got to bring them on the slow

1070
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:13.880
<v Speaker 1>boat to China. If we started to go and manage that,

1071
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:17.960
<v Speaker 1>if we had more recutters coming from that ecologist mindset,

1072
01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:21.880
<v Speaker 1>it would be such a great thing. But it seems

1073
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:24.400
<v Speaker 1>to be that we're just obsessed we've got to produce

1074
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:29.440
<v Speaker 1>yet more academics, rather than we've got to produce more practitioners.

1075
01:02:29.480 --> 01:02:31.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you've been an academic for how.

1076
01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:36.480
<v Speaker 4>Long now, Andy, just shy of eight years?

1077
01:02:36.880 --> 01:02:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So do you think that there is a slight

1078
01:02:40.159 --> 01:02:44.960
<v Speaker 1>problem in your new world that we're lacking people with

1079
01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:50.840
<v Speaker 1>monkey shovel hands like ours, because that seems to me, Yes,

1080
01:02:51.320 --> 01:02:53.519
<v Speaker 1>it seems to me. A problem, if you ask me,

1081
01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:55.079
<v Speaker 1>is that we've got lots of people, We've got lots

1082
01:02:55.119 --> 01:02:58.840
<v Speaker 1>of know how, but they haven't done the hard yards

1083
01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:02.239
<v Speaker 1>like you have before or they became academics. Do you

1084
01:03:02.360 --> 01:03:05.559
<v Speaker 1>share my embittered mindset?

1085
01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:07.280
<v Speaker 2>That was a manifesto?

1086
01:03:09.880 --> 01:03:14.039
<v Speaker 4>It's it's difficult because education is very much a public

1087
01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:16.800
<v Speaker 4>good and there's all kinds of research out there about

1088
01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:20.639
<v Speaker 4>kind of whid the benefits of going to university earning

1089
01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:23.280
<v Speaker 4>and all the rest of it. But the same time,

1090
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:28.960
<v Speaker 4>I do recognize it in certain sectors. The grad market

1091
01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:34.000
<v Speaker 4>is flooded, and it's so I do look at people,

1092
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:36.079
<v Speaker 4>like I said, you know, who are leaving with some

1093
01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:39.360
<v Speaker 4>really really fantastic qualifications and a lot of passion about

1094
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:42.880
<v Speaker 4>there with their subject, but there's just not the roles

1095
01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:48.920
<v Speaker 4>there for them, and that's really really hard.

1096
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:51.119
<v Speaker 2>I was talking to somebody up here the other week

1097
01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:53.719
<v Speaker 2>about something quite similar to this, and I'm not going

1098
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:56.800
<v Speaker 2>to say who they are, but they're they're working in

1099
01:03:56.880 --> 01:03:59.639
<v Speaker 2>a university up here in North Wales and doing a

1100
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:04.480
<v Speaker 2>similar sort of role. And their take was that if

1101
01:04:04.519 --> 01:04:06.360
<v Speaker 2>they can get hold of that student, they can get

1102
01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:10.000
<v Speaker 2>hold of that sixteen, seventeen, eighteen year old and say, okay,

1103
01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:12.480
<v Speaker 2>these are the options as they see the market now,

1104
01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:15.920
<v Speaker 2>these are the options for work training, vocational training and

1105
01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:18.320
<v Speaker 2>so on. They can give that person more options. The

1106
01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:23.320
<v Speaker 2>problem sometimes comes that they're being asked. They're at sixth

1107
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:26.639
<v Speaker 2>form or something like that, and they're asking a teacher

1108
01:04:27.239 --> 01:04:30.239
<v Speaker 2>what you should do for work, and a teacher says,

1109
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:32.480
<v Speaker 2>we should go to university. And when you go to university,

1110
01:04:32.559 --> 01:04:34.920
<v Speaker 2>the only thing related to nature available to you is

1111
01:04:35.800 --> 01:04:39.840
<v Speaker 2>zoology or ecology basically, or countryside management, but then that

1112
01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:43.000
<v Speaker 2>tends to skew back towards other things. So there aren't

1113
01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:44.679
<v Speaker 2>many options there to be able to go off and

1114
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:47.440
<v Speaker 2>do your thing. And unless you don't get to speak

1115
01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:49.880
<v Speaker 2>to somebody who actually knows about the vocational side of it,

1116
01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:52.840
<v Speaker 2>then you might just you might get stuck in that

1117
01:04:53.199 --> 01:04:55.880
<v Speaker 2>degree path and then it costs so much now as well.

1118
01:04:56.320 --> 01:05:01.360
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yeah, I'm my oldest and he's about to do

1119
01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:03.960
<v Speaker 4>his A levels or finish his A levels this year,

1120
01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:08.039
<v Speaker 4>and he's a little bit uncertain as to what he

1121
01:05:08.199 --> 01:05:10.679
<v Speaker 4>wants to do. And I've said, you know, I'm not

1122
01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:13.840
<v Speaker 4>going to hound you and say go to university just

1123
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:19.880
<v Speaker 4>for the sake of it, because it's it's so flipping expensive,

1124
01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:21.079
<v Speaker 4>and you do really if you're going to go to

1125
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:23.719
<v Speaker 4>university now, I think you do really need to have

1126
01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:26.800
<v Speaker 4>an idea about where about kind of where you see

1127
01:05:26.840 --> 01:05:29.039
<v Speaker 4>yourself and kind of the you know, and how it's

1128
01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:32.039
<v Speaker 4>going to three years of university and how many thousand

1129
01:05:32.079 --> 01:05:35.079
<v Speaker 4>pounds that's going to cost thirty some things. Oh yeah,

1130
01:05:35.119 --> 01:05:36.760
<v Speaker 4>and then plus you're living and all the rest of it.

1131
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:40.519
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's where that's going to lead you for

1132
01:05:40.519 --> 01:05:41.199
<v Speaker 4>your career path.

1133
01:05:41.719 --> 01:05:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because because a you rise of becoming a senior

1134
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:48.880
<v Speaker 2>acologist at a consultancy or something like that, you're still

1135
01:05:48.960 --> 01:05:52.159
<v Speaker 2>only earning in the high thirties low forties. I think

1136
01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:53.480
<v Speaker 2>at the moment, depending on where you are.

1137
01:05:53.519 --> 01:05:55.079
<v Speaker 3>You might as well be a hedge lager because even

1138
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:55.960
<v Speaker 3>I can earn more than that.

1139
01:05:57.760 --> 01:06:01.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I know, Yeah, I mean I think where you've

1140
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:07.280
<v Speaker 4>got changes in legislation kind of requirements for biodiversity net

1141
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:12.800
<v Speaker 4>gain with large developments, where you're looking at kind of

1142
01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:16.000
<v Speaker 4>the requirements around environmental impact to set what's going to

1143
01:06:16.039 --> 01:06:20.039
<v Speaker 4>come in from construction, I think potentially there is going

1144
01:06:20.079 --> 01:06:22.280
<v Speaker 4>to be more of a market out there. They just

1145
01:06:22.360 --> 01:06:25.159
<v Speaker 4>need I think potentially people do need to think I'm

1146
01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:27.320
<v Speaker 4>not just going to go work for like a Metland

1147
01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:29.639
<v Speaker 4>Trust whatever. Do you think I could go work for

1148
01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:31.519
<v Speaker 4>I'm not going to start dropping names, but I could

1149
01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:34.719
<v Speaker 4>go work for this organization? Is this organization and be

1150
01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:36.480
<v Speaker 4>in like an ecologist's role.

1151
01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:37.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1152
01:06:37.519 --> 01:06:40.000
<v Speaker 4>They don't necessarily understand that those opportunities are out there.

1153
01:06:40.159 --> 01:06:41.159
<v Speaker 3>Can I ask a question?

1154
01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:46.239
<v Speaker 1>Then, Andy, So you are going to be the one

1155
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:50.360
<v Speaker 1>of the few, if not only doctor of reeds and

1156
01:06:50.480 --> 01:06:53.760
<v Speaker 1>I think you must get a card made up saying

1157
01:06:54.239 --> 01:07:01.320
<v Speaker 1>and superhero comics. Yes, doctor read right if you had,

1158
01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:04.280
<v Speaker 1>because when you become a doctor, you know, once you've

1159
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:09.079
<v Speaker 1>you'd become doctor Dodson, you suddenly people go, oh, well,

1160
01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:15.079
<v Speaker 1>that's very important if you had a manifest though two Firstly,

1161
01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:19.199
<v Speaker 1>we need more reed beds, but secondly we need more

1162
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:23.639
<v Speaker 1>working reed beds. And thirdly we need knowledgeable people who

1163
01:07:23.719 --> 01:07:27.320
<v Speaker 1>are going to manage them with both a mind that

1164
01:07:27.400 --> 01:07:31.920
<v Speaker 1>they're a working environment but they're also a home to wildlife.

1165
01:07:32.440 --> 01:07:37.519
<v Speaker 1>What's going to be your couple of takeaway points that

1166
01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:40.639
<v Speaker 1>we as a society in this country could do without

1167
01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:43.679
<v Speaker 1>it costing too much money. What can we do to

1168
01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:48.119
<v Speaker 1>actually achieve those three things? More working and people's look

1169
01:07:48.159 --> 01:07:50.119
<v Speaker 1>after them. What do you think we should do?

1170
01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:55.079
<v Speaker 4>The first thing, which is going to be absolutely critical

1171
01:07:55.320 --> 01:07:59.119
<v Speaker 4>is the data, and that will be an up to

1172
01:07:59.199 --> 01:08:03.519
<v Speaker 4>date analysis of reed beds as a habitat for protected

1173
01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:10.320
<v Speaker 4>species with a variety of different management patterns undertaken over

1174
01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:13.280
<v Speaker 4>a prolonged period, so five years or so, so we

1175
01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:15.920
<v Speaker 4>have a data set then rather than something which is

1176
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:18.399
<v Speaker 4>done over a couple of years with a very limited

1177
01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:20.800
<v Speaker 4>data sex that's kind of where everything's based on there,

1178
01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:24.479
<v Speaker 4>and then from there we can then say, okay, we

1179
01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:28.760
<v Speaker 4>know that we can leave you know, thirty of the

1180
01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:33.960
<v Speaker 4>reedbed in this particular cutting pattern. Forming omesaic will still

1181
01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:37.039
<v Speaker 4>provide the habitat which we want for our wildlife to

1182
01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:41.479
<v Speaker 4>prosper to thrive. But at the same time that that

1183
01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:45.000
<v Speaker 4>is kind of that that would be my absolute number

1184
01:08:45.079 --> 01:08:50.199
<v Speaker 4>one priority. Get that data out there, and then once

1185
01:08:50.239 --> 01:08:51.800
<v Speaker 4>we've got the data out there, we can that that

1186
01:08:51.960 --> 01:08:53.960
<v Speaker 4>is then going to I think it's going to be

1187
01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:59.199
<v Speaker 4>an education piece on the part of for certain kind

1188
01:08:59.239 --> 01:09:03.840
<v Speaker 4>of sect Uh. It is frustrating because there are people

1189
01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:07.279
<v Speaker 4>within the RSPB, within the Wetland Trust who are really

1190
01:09:07.399 --> 01:09:10.800
<v Speaker 4>pro commercial management. There's done as a site just down

1191
01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:15.760
<v Speaker 4>the road well up from you outside on the way

1192
01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:18.479
<v Speaker 4>to Newmarket. It's tripless. I they want to turn it

1193
01:09:18.520 --> 01:09:21.920
<v Speaker 4>into back into commercial rebed management, which I think is

1194
01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:26.439
<v Speaker 4>absolutely amazing, and it needs that education piece, that dissemination

1195
01:09:27.279 --> 01:09:34.800
<v Speaker 4>that commercial cutting is not that the this absolute calamity

1196
01:09:35.720 --> 01:09:40.600
<v Speaker 4>which certain people would have us believe, so that the

1197
01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:44.119
<v Speaker 4>magic wand change in mindset, please okay and I and

1198
01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:47.960
<v Speaker 4>change the culture. But that how you I think that

1199
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:52.319
<v Speaker 4>would what that would take again, would be several years

1200
01:09:52.439 --> 01:09:55.920
<v Speaker 4>of it being done in practice and for the figures

1201
01:09:55.960 --> 01:09:59.520
<v Speaker 4>to demonstrate Yeah you would. I would like to hope

1202
01:09:59.560 --> 01:10:03.479
<v Speaker 4>you would still will see that increase in bitter numbers.

1203
01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:08.319
<v Speaker 4>Oh wow, actually this can happen. And then I would

1204
01:10:08.319 --> 01:10:10.560
<v Speaker 4>also say, you know when I speak to like Rowan

1205
01:10:10.640 --> 01:10:13.119
<v Speaker 4>and Paul and guys like that, and they talk about

1206
01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:16.399
<v Speaker 4>their kind of experiences out on the marsh is cutting

1207
01:10:17.439 --> 01:10:20.640
<v Speaker 4>and again you know, seeing all the different wildlife kind

1208
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:23.840
<v Speaker 4>of up close personal for the certain for like the

1209
01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:27.920
<v Speaker 4>ecologies who do find that really kind of interesting saying yeah,

1210
01:10:28.119 --> 01:10:30.239
<v Speaker 4>this is an opportunity where you can create an ideal

1211
01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:32.319
<v Speaker 4>habitat for them and going to get people.

1212
01:10:32.079 --> 01:10:36.479
<v Speaker 1>In Okay, I've got a means here of doing that

1213
01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:40.000
<v Speaker 1>because I get exactly what you're saying. And one of

1214
01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:43.039
<v Speaker 1>the things but in you know, the last decade I've

1215
01:10:43.119 --> 01:10:47.239
<v Speaker 1>been this evangelist is that we can have our cake

1216
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:49.319
<v Speaker 1>and eat it is that you you know, we can

1217
01:10:49.439 --> 01:10:54.399
<v Speaker 1>manage hedgerows and we know that it does it better

1218
01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:58.720
<v Speaker 1>for them. And it's now getting to a point where

1219
01:10:58.880 --> 01:11:02.399
<v Speaker 1>even some of the absolute keyboard warriors who used to

1220
01:11:02.600 --> 01:11:06.680
<v Speaker 1>infest Twitter as it used to be called and that

1221
01:11:07.079 --> 01:11:09.920
<v Speaker 1>they're actually shut in their gobs. Now about that, you

1222
01:11:10.119 --> 01:11:15.039
<v Speaker 1>need to get the physical so that the data, I

1223
01:11:15.199 --> 01:11:17.079
<v Speaker 1>think is huge and important, but you almost need to

1224
01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:20.880
<v Speaker 1>get the what's it called the social buy in that

1225
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:26.439
<v Speaker 1>something being managed is not necessarily a terrible thing. And

1226
01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:31.319
<v Speaker 1>Rewilding did a terrible disservice because it gave sucker to

1227
01:11:31.479 --> 01:11:33.479
<v Speaker 1>these people that you could if you just left it

1228
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:36.079
<v Speaker 1>alone and ran away, that it was somehow going to

1229
01:11:36.119 --> 01:11:39.640
<v Speaker 1>be better. We've got a friend of ours, friend of

1230
01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:44.359
<v Speaker 1>the show called Tarquin Millington Drake who takes people up

1231
01:11:44.479 --> 01:11:47.600
<v Speaker 1>to Grousemor's and says, look, when you manage a more

1232
01:11:47.720 --> 01:11:51.439
<v Speaker 1>properly and you aren't tearing the ass out of it

1233
01:11:51.560 --> 01:11:55.640
<v Speaker 1>by trying to shoot ten gazillion brace every single year,

1234
01:11:56.439 --> 01:11:59.319
<v Speaker 1>but you're still managing it in a traditional way. Look

1235
01:11:59.359 --> 01:12:01.800
<v Speaker 1>at the wildlie. Come and look at it yourself. I

1236
01:12:01.960 --> 01:12:05.079
<v Speaker 1>think once you've got some of that data, then you

1237
01:12:05.239 --> 01:12:08.199
<v Speaker 1>need to talk to people like Richard and I who

1238
01:12:08.239 --> 01:12:12.319
<v Speaker 1>are in the media, and get some of those people

1239
01:12:12.399 --> 01:12:15.079
<v Speaker 1>and take them out into rebeds and say, look, they're here,

1240
01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:18.600
<v Speaker 1>this is being managed, and isn't it great. There's a

1241
01:12:18.760 --> 01:12:20.840
<v Speaker 1>tick in the box because we're not having to import

1242
01:12:20.920 --> 01:12:23.319
<v Speaker 1>this bloody stuff halfway round the world.

1243
01:12:24.239 --> 01:12:25.199
<v Speaker 3>But also.

1244
01:12:26.359 --> 01:12:29.039
<v Speaker 1>Isn't it wonderful because we've got all this wildlife here

1245
01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:32.359
<v Speaker 1>and it's providing employment for these people who are doing

1246
01:12:32.439 --> 01:12:35.399
<v Speaker 1>that a great traditional British skill. And so I think,

1247
01:12:35.560 --> 01:12:39.119
<v Speaker 1>once you've got your PhD, and once you've got some

1248
01:12:39.239 --> 01:12:41.680
<v Speaker 1>of that data that you're after, which I know you're

1249
01:12:41.720 --> 01:12:44.359
<v Speaker 1>on the case with, come back to us and we

1250
01:12:44.560 --> 01:12:47.640
<v Speaker 1>will try and do the same thing what Tarquin's doing

1251
01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:50.720
<v Speaker 1>up on the moors, which I understand nothing about is

1252
01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:53.399
<v Speaker 1>all too hilly, you know. And you and I are

1253
01:12:53.479 --> 01:12:57.840
<v Speaker 1>from down south in the east, and our ears go

1254
01:12:58.039 --> 01:13:01.199
<v Speaker 1>pop if we stand on a mole hill, and what

1255
01:13:01.359 --> 01:13:03.720
<v Speaker 1>we ought to do is the same thing here in

1256
01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:06.600
<v Speaker 1>the East Anglian reed beds or the reed beds, and

1257
01:13:06.680 --> 01:13:09.279
<v Speaker 1>go and say look there, you go find fault with

1258
01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:09.920
<v Speaker 1>this if you can.

1259
01:13:10.359 --> 01:13:13.239
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, I look at when I'm I grew

1260
01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:14.800
<v Speaker 4>up and came to Shoan now kind of living down

1261
01:13:14.840 --> 01:13:18.279
<v Speaker 4>in the southwest Edge, and I'll go down to say

1262
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:20.840
<v Speaker 4>hengersprey Head, and I look at kind of the state

1263
01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:22.840
<v Speaker 4>of some of the reed beds down there, which is

1264
01:13:22.880 --> 01:13:26.439
<v Speaker 4>not looked after a bit of a mess really and

1265
01:13:26.479 --> 01:13:28.720
<v Speaker 4>I think, you know, you go down Like I was

1266
01:13:28.880 --> 01:13:32.239
<v Speaker 4>watching what pull and h and roalm we're doing. I

1267
01:13:32.319 --> 01:13:36.159
<v Speaker 4>was like, this could be that's really saying I drive

1268
01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:39.399
<v Speaker 4>past up and look at the opportunity, like this could

1269
01:13:39.439 --> 01:13:43.880
<v Speaker 4>be something really really good here where it kind of

1270
01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:50.199
<v Speaker 4>meets a UK kind of need for material, for homegrown material,

1271
01:13:50.520 --> 01:13:54.479
<v Speaker 4>whilst at the same time kind of providing, you know,

1272
01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:57.880
<v Speaker 4>allowing kind of wildlife to thrive. And that's kind of

1273
01:13:57.920 --> 01:14:01.680
<v Speaker 4>what I you know, yeah, appreciate you you understanding it

1274
01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:03.760
<v Speaker 4>can be both staid have cake eat it?

1275
01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think that is literally our challenge then, Richard,

1276
01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:13.640
<v Speaker 1>that we have done it. We have got that, We've

1277
01:14:13.720 --> 01:14:16.479
<v Speaker 1>got exactly what country Slide is all about. Is it's

1278
01:14:16.520 --> 01:14:21.640
<v Speaker 1>a working countryside that is providing employment for people and

1279
01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:26.119
<v Speaker 1>providing natural capital for wildlife.

1280
01:14:26.359 --> 01:14:33.600
<v Speaker 3>There we are, that's it done, mission statement, job done.

1281
01:14:34.399 --> 01:14:34.960
<v Speaker 4>Well what was that?

1282
01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:36.600
<v Speaker 2>What was that thing? That bush was standing on the

1283
01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:40.840
<v Speaker 2>aircraft carrier saying mission accomplished? Oh we need we aircraft

1284
01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:42.439
<v Speaker 2>carrier off the broads.

1285
01:14:42.640 --> 01:14:43.560
<v Speaker 3>Well you see.

1286
01:14:44.319 --> 01:14:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Well the problem is, of course, is that Andy and

1287
01:14:46.600 --> 01:14:48.880
<v Speaker 1>his former life was actually in the military. You were

1288
01:14:48.920 --> 01:14:50.079
<v Speaker 1>out in Iraq, weren't you.

1289
01:14:50.640 --> 01:14:54.600
<v Speaker 4>No, I dodged, I dodged Iraq, I did. I did

1290
01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:58.359
<v Speaker 4>two tours of Cossi by three in Afghanistan instead wide

1291
01:14:58.399 --> 01:15:01.680
<v Speaker 4>delights because you all the wetland up in the Chateau

1292
01:15:01.720 --> 01:15:04.840
<v Speaker 4>Arab and yeah, and you had all the drainage, which

1293
01:15:04.920 --> 01:15:08.199
<v Speaker 4>is done by Sadam the same post ninety one because

1294
01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:12.760
<v Speaker 4>in a similar manner to what Herold did and King

1295
01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:16.359
<v Speaker 4>Alfred could have hide him from the Normans and the

1296
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:20.520
<v Speaker 4>Vikings kind of uh yeah, they went off into the

1297
01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:22.960
<v Speaker 4>inter marshals and kind of Adam was like, don't like this,

1298
01:15:23.119 --> 01:15:24.680
<v Speaker 4>can't access it, started draining it.

1299
01:15:25.159 --> 01:15:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Ah, there you go. So that's another reason not to

1300
01:15:28.359 --> 01:15:30.199
<v Speaker 1>like him, not just the fact that he was an

1301
01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:34.760
<v Speaker 1>absolute genocidal mania. Look at what he did to the

1302
01:15:34.920 --> 01:15:36.119
<v Speaker 1>bloody reed beds.

1303
01:15:37.239 --> 01:15:39.840
<v Speaker 2>The case against Adam is saying is just really mounting up,

1304
01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:40.479
<v Speaker 2>as you know what.

1305
01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:47.439
<v Speaker 1>Someone ought to do something about him any day now, Yes, exactly,

1306
01:15:47.680 --> 01:15:50.960
<v Speaker 1>don't worry. Probably tears on the case, I'm sure, yes,

1307
01:15:51.039 --> 01:15:51.760
<v Speaker 1>once he's first.

1308
01:15:53.880 --> 01:15:57.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it is quite topical because you know, we traditionally

1309
01:15:57.439 --> 01:16:00.479
<v Speaker 4>we did get quite traditionally from the nineties, get a

1310
01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:06.399
<v Speaker 4>lot of read from Ukraine and then I'm not kind

1311
01:16:06.399 --> 01:16:09.800
<v Speaker 4>of an expert on kind of Ukrainian legislation and stuff

1312
01:16:09.840 --> 01:16:11.680
<v Speaker 4>like that. But when I've kind of looked at our

1313
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:14.359
<v Speaker 4>government website and thought, I wonder if there's any kind

1314
01:16:14.359 --> 01:16:18.159
<v Speaker 4>of exclusions so similar to when we had conscription and

1315
01:16:18.199 --> 01:16:23.239
<v Speaker 4>then national service kind of post kind of World War

1316
01:16:23.359 --> 01:16:26.920
<v Speaker 4>two and whatnot, are there any kind of exemptions for

1317
01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:31.359
<v Speaker 4>kind of agricultural works and whatnot, And there's nothing as

1318
01:16:31.439 --> 01:16:33.600
<v Speaker 4>far as I'm aware. It's like, you know, if you

1319
01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:38.039
<v Speaker 4>are in the you know, the age bracket, you know

1320
01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:41.520
<v Speaker 4>you're you're serving. So then all of a sudden, the

1321
01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:45.239
<v Speaker 4>young people who could be recutters and now have it

1322
01:16:45.359 --> 01:16:49.760
<v Speaker 4>unfortunately having to deal with we're pooting. But apparently, according

1323
01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:54.319
<v Speaker 4>to a certain permanent maniac, they deserved it. And it's

1324
01:16:54.359 --> 01:16:55.640
<v Speaker 4>a bit to be invaded.

1325
01:16:57.880 --> 01:17:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Talking to a Polish mate about this, he was his

1326
01:17:00.880 --> 01:17:04.720
<v Speaker 2>cousin's Ukrainian and they were they were saying that there's

1327
01:17:04.720 --> 01:17:07.920
<v Speaker 2>going to be this loss of physical skill for so

1328
01:17:08.079 --> 01:17:11.199
<v Speaker 2>many things in agriculture in Ukraine, because when you look

1329
01:17:11.239 --> 01:17:12.840
<v Speaker 2>at the age group of people who've gone out to

1330
01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:15.960
<v Speaker 2>fight and who've died, the sort of what you've got

1331
01:17:16.079 --> 01:17:18.840
<v Speaker 2>now is the middle bit's been taken and you've got

1332
01:17:18.920 --> 01:17:21.680
<v Speaker 2>the old people who know how to do the things,

1333
01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:24.560
<v Speaker 2>but they aren't physically capable of doing that thing on

1334
01:17:24.640 --> 01:17:27.159
<v Speaker 2>the land anymore. Or people who are young who've got

1335
01:17:27.199 --> 01:17:30.239
<v Speaker 2>the land and they've inherited the machinery, they haven't got

1336
01:17:30.319 --> 01:17:33.960
<v Speaker 2>the lived experience of knowing what happens in this field

1337
01:17:34.079 --> 01:17:35.439
<v Speaker 2>and that harvest and so on.

1338
01:17:35.720 --> 01:17:37.960
<v Speaker 4>That's how my great grandad got into that. She was

1339
01:17:38.039 --> 01:17:41.000
<v Speaker 4>kind of post World War One. He joined up in

1340
01:17:41.119 --> 01:17:46.039
<v Speaker 4>nineteen fourteen, very fortunate survived, so passiondaw went over to

1341
01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:49.359
<v Speaker 4>Padoua in Italy, and he was in his twenties when

1342
01:17:49.399 --> 01:17:53.000
<v Speaker 4>he joined up, so he wasn't exactly a spring chicken

1343
01:17:53.119 --> 01:17:56.640
<v Speaker 4>like eighteen nineteen years old. When in nineteen eighteen and

1344
01:17:56.760 --> 01:17:59.319
<v Speaker 4>he'd kind of had enough of just being a farm

1345
01:17:59.399 --> 01:18:02.159
<v Speaker 4>labor and obvious where you've got so much loss of life.

1346
01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:04.880
<v Speaker 4>He managed to get himself a job as as a

1347
01:18:04.960 --> 01:18:08.279
<v Speaker 4>training statue, which I don't think normally somebody would have

1348
01:18:08.359 --> 01:18:11.439
<v Speaker 4>been willing to take on a guy and kind of

1349
01:18:11.479 --> 01:18:13.560
<v Speaker 4>at the mid to late twenties normally in that kind

1350
01:18:13.600 --> 01:18:13.920
<v Speaker 4>of role.

1351
01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:18.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's it's a bizarre time.

1352
01:18:18.800 --> 01:18:21.880
<v Speaker 1>After that, I'll tell you a funny thing, right, because

1353
01:18:21.880 --> 01:18:23.720
<v Speaker 1>we ought to start thinking about wrapping this up. But

1354
01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:29.199
<v Speaker 1>this is about Ukrainian refugees. My son Charlie. He had

1355
01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:33.000
<v Speaker 1>a little friend called Gleb who came over.

1356
01:18:34.479 --> 01:18:35.640
<v Speaker 2>This type of duck, isn't it.

1357
01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:37.239
<v Speaker 3>That's a grebe.

1358
01:18:38.239 --> 01:18:41.960
<v Speaker 1>This is Gleb and him and his mum were refugees

1359
01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:46.439
<v Speaker 1>and they were up on the Belarusian border was where

1360
01:18:46.520 --> 01:18:49.840
<v Speaker 1>they came from. And they came to the UK and

1361
01:18:49.960 --> 01:18:53.880
<v Speaker 1>he was given a place free of charge by where

1362
01:18:53.920 --> 01:18:57.279
<v Speaker 1>my son was at prep school, and very very generous

1363
01:18:57.319 --> 01:18:57.600
<v Speaker 1>of him.

1364
01:18:57.680 --> 01:18:59.520
<v Speaker 3>And he was a lovely guy, Gleb.

1365
01:19:00.039 --> 01:19:02.439
<v Speaker 1>Do you think he suddenly come from this war zone

1366
01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:05.520
<v Speaker 1>and it's suddenly going to a school he got to

1367
01:19:05.560 --> 01:19:08.000
<v Speaker 1>play rugby and all he'd ever done was like played

1368
01:19:08.079 --> 01:19:10.199
<v Speaker 1>chess and done gymnastics, and.

1369
01:19:10.720 --> 01:19:12.720
<v Speaker 3>All of a sudden there's always people throwing himselves out.

1370
01:19:12.720 --> 01:19:14.239
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he was an amazing little fellow anyway, So

1371
01:19:14.359 --> 01:19:15.960
<v Speaker 1>he came to stay with us for a little bit,

1372
01:19:16.680 --> 01:19:22.239
<v Speaker 1>and I took him and Charlie off to U to

1373
01:19:22.319 --> 01:19:24.680
<v Speaker 1>bimble round Flea barm and go and have a look at.

1374
01:19:24.560 --> 01:19:25.319
<v Speaker 2>The wildlife there.

1375
01:19:26.600 --> 01:19:29.119
<v Speaker 1>And I sort of had this tour that I always

1376
01:19:29.199 --> 01:19:31.920
<v Speaker 1>do to Charlie's mates, and so first of allays sort

1377
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:35.439
<v Speaker 1>of drive around. We go and check the traps, so

1378
01:19:35.560 --> 01:19:37.880
<v Speaker 1>we see if we can find some dead rats, which

1379
01:19:38.039 --> 01:19:39.800
<v Speaker 1>kids always seemed to like all dead rats.

1380
01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:43.359
<v Speaker 3>And then we go to the squirrel traps, and you.

1381
01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:45.640
<v Speaker 1>Know, Charlie was, wow, look at that, and he's picking

1382
01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:48.319
<v Speaker 1>sort of rats and squirrels out of traps and going

1383
01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:52.680
<v Speaker 1>in this brilliant and Gleb's face was utterly ashen. And

1384
01:19:52.760 --> 01:19:54.119
<v Speaker 1>then I went to go and check on the sheep

1385
01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:56.520
<v Speaker 1>because we'd put some sheep into the rotation, which we're

1386
01:19:56.560 --> 01:20:01.439
<v Speaker 1>actually knocking down some of the the floristic margins. And

1387
01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:03.640
<v Speaker 1>rather than start getting all there's some sheep, he was

1388
01:20:03.840 --> 01:20:06.079
<v Speaker 1>chasing around after and trying to cuddle these things, and

1389
01:20:06.319 --> 01:20:07.960
<v Speaker 1>the sheep were going can he buggle off please?

1390
01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:11.359
<v Speaker 3>And running around, and then you know, I explained to him.

1391
01:20:11.399 --> 01:20:13.359
<v Speaker 1>He had very good English, and I was explaining to himself,

1392
01:20:13.399 --> 01:20:16.279
<v Speaker 1>we're doing all this because we're trying to protect this

1393
01:20:16.560 --> 01:20:20.439
<v Speaker 1>really rare bird called the gray partridge, and you know,

1394
01:20:20.479 --> 01:20:21.880
<v Speaker 1>we're trying to get more numbers of them.

1395
01:20:21.920 --> 01:20:23.039
<v Speaker 3>And eventually we saw.

1396
01:20:23.039 --> 01:20:25.039
<v Speaker 1>A pair and I'm like, there they are, and he

1397
01:20:25.079 --> 01:20:28.239
<v Speaker 1>went they're rare, and I went, yes, I said, they've

1398
01:20:28.239 --> 01:20:30.520
<v Speaker 1>called the Gray Partry because I know Kip we're going

1399
01:20:30.640 --> 01:20:34.479
<v Speaker 1>with Kippen with everywhere her home. And I was going,

1400
01:20:34.880 --> 01:20:37.079
<v Speaker 1>oh god, because of course in the Ukraine, you know,

1401
01:20:37.119 --> 01:20:39.800
<v Speaker 1>they've got the great open spaces and there's great partries

1402
01:20:39.840 --> 01:20:42.000
<v Speaker 1>going over. So I thought, you know, I haven't really

1403
01:20:42.119 --> 01:20:43.199
<v Speaker 1>wowed this kid here.

1404
01:20:43.520 --> 01:20:44.920
<v Speaker 3>So what I them do is I went.

1405
01:20:44.840 --> 01:20:49.399
<v Speaker 1>Into the poulfrey in Hall, the butcher's in Debenham, and

1406
01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:51.239
<v Speaker 1>I said, right, what we'll do is I go and

1407
01:20:51.319 --> 01:20:53.800
<v Speaker 1>take him in there, and I'd go and a buy

1408
01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:57.520
<v Speaker 1>them one of these lovely sausage turnovers that Charlie absolutely loves.

1409
01:20:57.720 --> 01:20:59.920
<v Speaker 1>And then they take them into the back and they

1410
01:21:00.119 --> 01:21:03.119
<v Speaker 1>show them all the carcasses hanging up, and so I

1411
01:21:03.159 --> 01:21:04.920
<v Speaker 1>sort of what would you like to eat? Then, Gleb,

1412
01:21:04.920 --> 01:21:07.319
<v Speaker 1>and you're sort of going, I didn't want anything that

1413
01:21:07.520 --> 01:21:11.840
<v Speaker 1>was there. And then when Large Jamie, the other butcher

1414
01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:13.079
<v Speaker 1>in there, he went, so do you want to come

1415
01:21:13.079 --> 01:21:15.279
<v Speaker 1>and have a look at the carcasses? He went no, no, no, no, no,

1416
01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:18.279
<v Speaker 1>no like that, And so I rang Claire was we're

1417
01:21:18.279 --> 01:21:19.520
<v Speaker 1>coming back, and I said, do you know what I

1418
01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:24.119
<v Speaker 1>really think? Poor Gleb's being destroyed by war. I said nothing.

1419
01:21:24.359 --> 01:21:26.560
<v Speaker 1>He doesn't find any beauty in it, and I talked

1420
01:21:26.600 --> 01:21:29.239
<v Speaker 1>him through it. We saw this, We saw that the rats,

1421
01:21:29.319 --> 01:21:32.439
<v Speaker 1>the squirrels that no sausage turnover didn't want to come

1422
01:21:32.439 --> 01:21:34.760
<v Speaker 1>and say that you've forgotten, haven't you what?

1423
01:21:35.119 --> 01:21:36.479
<v Speaker 3>Because he's a vegetarian?

1424
01:21:38.720 --> 01:21:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh dear, okay, that might be the reason why then,

1425
01:21:45.079 --> 01:21:48.199
<v Speaker 1>So basically the poor kid has been dragged all over here.

1426
01:21:48.279 --> 01:21:51.600
<v Speaker 1>You know you've traumatized him, yes, traumatized him there by

1427
01:21:51.680 --> 01:21:55.800
<v Speaker 1>making him eat meat. Anyway, listen, Andy, thank you so

1428
01:21:56.079 --> 01:21:58.479
<v Speaker 1>much for coming on, because.

1429
01:21:58.279 --> 01:21:59.800
<v Speaker 4>It was how was that?

1430
01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:01.239
<v Speaker 2>Why are we going to end there?

1431
01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:08.079
<v Speaker 1>Because this look we we have been for once and

1432
01:22:08.279 --> 01:22:11.119
<v Speaker 1>I think it's because Callum's not here, because look, I

1433
01:22:11.159 --> 01:22:13.920
<v Speaker 1>could have asked you the question what is that Callum's questions,

1434
01:22:14.000 --> 01:22:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Andy is he wanted to say a first of all,

1435
01:22:17.199 --> 01:22:22.960
<v Speaker 1>did you think that invade that going out and rescuing

1436
01:22:23.199 --> 01:22:25.960
<v Speaker 1>the good people of the Falkland Islands was a major

1437
01:22:26.079 --> 01:22:31.079
<v Speaker 1>importance in your success? And secondly, actually, yes, do you

1438
01:22:31.359 --> 01:22:35.119
<v Speaker 1>regret now the poll tax? And I went no, not

1439
01:22:35.239 --> 01:22:38.760
<v Speaker 1>that sort of thatcher, Callum, I know it was it

1440
01:22:38.920 --> 01:22:43.600
<v Speaker 1>was before ever, You're not even from Grantham, No, exactly

1441
01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:43.920
<v Speaker 1>it's not.

1442
01:22:44.399 --> 01:22:47.279
<v Speaker 2>We's not that far from Grantham, but actually that's important.

1443
01:22:47.840 --> 01:22:49.399
<v Speaker 1>But no, do you know what I thought is that

1444
01:22:49.560 --> 01:22:53.039
<v Speaker 1>we have been very good because it's just been Richard

1445
01:22:53.079 --> 01:22:57.000
<v Speaker 1>and I. We've actually listened to you because what you've

1446
01:22:57.000 --> 01:22:59.119
<v Speaker 1>said is fascinating and I've learned a lot.

1447
01:22:59.159 --> 01:23:00.960
<v Speaker 3>But it's also given us food for thought.

1448
01:23:01.359 --> 01:23:05.039
<v Speaker 1>Because I think that it's actually it's been very good

1449
01:23:05.039 --> 01:23:08.720
<v Speaker 1>because what we're talking confirmation bias is exactly what I

1450
01:23:08.920 --> 01:23:12.479
<v Speaker 1>believe is what you are a smousing and you're studying

1451
01:23:12.960 --> 01:23:17.600
<v Speaker 1>and hopefully soon you will be doctor Reid because you're saying, look,

1452
01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:19.920
<v Speaker 1>we can have our cake and eat it, and what

1453
01:23:20.039 --> 01:23:20.680
<v Speaker 1>a wonderful thing.

1454
01:23:20.760 --> 01:23:24.520
<v Speaker 3>And thank you so much for coming on.

1455
01:23:25.520 --> 01:23:28.560
<v Speaker 1>And I'm sorry I didn't really ask Callum's questions properly,

1456
01:23:28.640 --> 01:23:31.560
<v Speaker 1>but they were just silly anyway, and we knew it.

1457
01:23:32.119 --> 01:23:36.800
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, yeah, I'll say I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed.

1458
01:23:38.680 --> 01:23:39.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm not surprised.

1459
01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:43.800
<v Speaker 1>We're all disappointed in him, you know, when it comes on.

1460
01:23:46.039 --> 01:23:48.119
<v Speaker 2>He was very tiring to go around the British Shooting

1461
01:23:48.119 --> 01:23:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Show with. I must be said. You know, you pulled

1462
01:23:50.680 --> 01:23:52.800
<v Speaker 2>back a string on a toy and it just keeps

1463
01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:55.880
<v Speaker 2>going That's what it was like. It was that, except

1464
01:23:55.920 --> 01:23:58.119
<v Speaker 2>he was then veering off towards the yetty stand and

1465
01:23:59.000 --> 01:24:00.880
<v Speaker 2>other things, and then he was going on about bill tong.

1466
01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:02.880
<v Speaker 2>You had this pocket full of billtong that it was

1467
01:24:02.960 --> 01:24:06.079
<v Speaker 2>just kept dipping into and it was gradually rehydrating as

1468
01:24:06.119 --> 01:24:10.439
<v Speaker 2>we went through the day with his bodily fluids. He

1469
01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:11.920
<v Speaker 2>kept offering it to people as well.

1470
01:24:12.560 --> 01:24:15.159
<v Speaker 1>You know, I made the pretense, you see, Andy, of

1471
01:24:15.279 --> 01:24:17.520
<v Speaker 1>not wanting to go to the shooting show, saying I've

1472
01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:18.840
<v Speaker 1>been there a lots of times. I don't want to

1473
01:24:18.880 --> 01:24:21.680
<v Speaker 1>look a load of guns. It's actually because I've spent

1474
01:24:21.800 --> 01:24:23.760
<v Speaker 1>a huge amount of time with Calum and I know

1475
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:28.399
<v Speaker 1>that's all he'll be doing is rehydrating bloody South African

1476
01:24:28.520 --> 01:24:33.000
<v Speaker 1>drive eat it pocket and they're go getting excited about

1477
01:24:33.079 --> 01:24:36.880
<v Speaker 1>people who make bloody flasks. And so anyway, we'll be

1478
01:24:36.960 --> 01:24:40.520
<v Speaker 1>back next next week with the usual bollocks, without any

1479
01:24:41.079 --> 01:24:45.000
<v Speaker 1>any intelligent people to go and buffer the rest of

1480
01:24:45.079 --> 01:24:45.840
<v Speaker 1>our lunacy.

1481
01:24:45.960 --> 01:24:47.840
<v Speaker 3>But there we go. So sorry about that.

1482
01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:49.640
<v Speaker 4>Thank you so much for having me. It's been a

1483
01:24:49.680 --> 01:24:50.199
<v Speaker 4>real pleasure.

1484
01:24:50.279 --> 01:24:51.840
<v Speaker 3>No, it's great, Thank you so much.

1485
01:24:52.560 --> 01:24:54.199
<v Speaker 1>Right, have you got anything that you've got to say,

1486
01:24:54.239 --> 01:24:56.560
<v Speaker 1>with all the grown up stuff you know about how

1487
01:24:56.600 --> 01:24:58.560
<v Speaker 1>many people sort of want to listen to my voice

1488
01:24:58.800 --> 01:25:00.720
<v Speaker 1>for longer and pay us money.

1489
01:25:01.960 --> 01:25:05.960
<v Speaker 2>We've have our first patron. We have a patron, so

1490
01:25:06.439 --> 01:25:09.199
<v Speaker 2>they are supporting us now. And for the rest of you,

1491
01:25:09.279 --> 01:25:12.279
<v Speaker 2>why haven't you signed up? Because this is getting expensive

1492
01:25:13.000 --> 01:25:16.520
<v Speaker 2>and we've got to support Richard's port supply, which is

1493
01:25:16.560 --> 01:25:20.159
<v Speaker 2>at least seven hundred and fifty pounds a week exactly.

1494
01:25:21.359 --> 01:25:24.279
<v Speaker 2>But you know the fabulous appearance fees that our guests have.

1495
01:25:24.439 --> 01:25:27.119
<v Speaker 2>I think it was at least two grand for you,

1496
01:25:27.279 --> 01:25:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Andy to come on today. Just send us an invoice

1497
01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:32.279
<v Speaker 2>and Richard Niggas will sort it out.

1498
01:25:32.399 --> 01:25:32.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1499
01:25:33.279 --> 01:25:35.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, so we've done. We've got a load of new listeners. Again,

1500
01:25:35.359 --> 01:25:37.640
<v Speaker 2>we're doing quite well on that. We didn't seem to

1501
01:25:37.760 --> 01:25:40.720
<v Speaker 2>annoy anyone too much at the shooting show, apart from

1502
01:25:40.760 --> 01:25:42.960
<v Speaker 2>the ones we did annoy. We've got guests next week

1503
01:25:43.000 --> 01:25:44.279
<v Speaker 2>as well, next month rather.

1504
01:25:44.279 --> 01:25:46.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh we have yes, yes, what's that?

1505
01:25:46.640 --> 01:25:47.159
<v Speaker 2>What's that one?

1506
01:25:47.479 --> 01:25:52.239
<v Speaker 1>That one is quite interesting. It's International Women's Day, so

1507
01:25:52.800 --> 01:25:57.039
<v Speaker 1>therefore were the natural choice exactly. So, I mean, obviously

1508
01:25:57.079 --> 01:26:00.399
<v Speaker 1>I'm not allowed near women, as you probably are aware, Andy,

1509
01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:02.720
<v Speaker 1>is that my voice does things to them.

1510
01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's not a legal statue, no, exactly.

1511
01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:08.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm still struggling to get over that last episode. Honestly,

1512
01:26:08.079 --> 01:26:09.560
<v Speaker 4>I felt so dirty.

1513
01:26:09.319 --> 01:26:10.840
<v Speaker 3>After listens well the dummarks.

1514
01:26:11.399 --> 01:26:13.640
<v Speaker 4>Oh god, almighty, yeah, I know, I.

1515
01:26:13.720 --> 01:26:15.520
<v Speaker 3>Know exactly it was.

1516
01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:19.239
<v Speaker 1>It was disgusting, wasn't it to me? I want to

1517
01:26:19.319 --> 01:26:22.399
<v Speaker 1>actually now discover what bittens get up to in all

1518
01:26:22.479 --> 01:26:26.560
<v Speaker 1>those reads. But yeah, So what we're doing is that

1519
01:26:26.680 --> 01:26:29.720
<v Speaker 1>for International Women's they we're actually binning Callum and I

1520
01:26:30.600 --> 01:26:35.199
<v Speaker 1>and we have got three fascinating women coming on. But

1521
01:26:35.479 --> 01:26:37.760
<v Speaker 1>also we've got Richard as well, because we've got to

1522
01:26:37.800 --> 01:26:39.000
<v Speaker 1>have someone to ask questions.

1523
01:26:39.239 --> 01:26:42.079
<v Speaker 2>So is that because I'm the least threatening of the

1524
01:26:42.119 --> 01:26:43.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of us, the most feminent.

1525
01:26:44.079 --> 01:26:47.199
<v Speaker 1>No, No, it's because my wife prefers your voice to mine.

1526
01:26:47.439 --> 01:26:49.640
<v Speaker 1>So she's one of the women you see who's on.

1527
01:26:50.800 --> 01:26:52.800
<v Speaker 1>She prefers your voice to mine because she gets to

1528
01:26:52.840 --> 01:26:56.119
<v Speaker 1>hear it, you know, ad nausea and poor thing. And

1529
01:26:57.800 --> 01:27:01.119
<v Speaker 1>we've also got Amy, so we've actually we're going to

1530
01:27:01.159 --> 01:27:03.600
<v Speaker 1>give Amy a voice. You know, this is like sort

1531
01:27:03.640 --> 01:27:06.479
<v Speaker 1>of it's a bit like the you know, the Suffragettes.

1532
01:27:06.560 --> 01:27:08.399
<v Speaker 1>Finally they've got the vote and.

1533
01:27:08.520 --> 01:27:10.720
<v Speaker 2>She's allowed out once a year, and then she'll throw

1534
01:27:10.760 --> 01:27:12.560
<v Speaker 2>herself under the King's horse exactly.

1535
01:27:12.840 --> 01:27:15.760
<v Speaker 1>And then we've also got the show director of the

1536
01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:19.159
<v Speaker 1>Hadley Show coming up, who is a proper, genuine lady.

1537
01:27:19.239 --> 01:27:23.159
<v Speaker 1>So we've got sort of various rural angles coming up

1538
01:27:23.319 --> 01:27:27.279
<v Speaker 1>for International Women's Day, and Richard has drawn the long

1539
01:27:27.359 --> 01:27:31.720
<v Speaker 1>straw or long read in getting to go and try

1540
01:27:31.760 --> 01:27:34.000
<v Speaker 1>and keep some sort of order and ask questions.

1541
01:27:34.439 --> 01:27:37.800
<v Speaker 3>So, yes, that's our march sorted.

1542
01:27:37.520 --> 01:27:41.479
<v Speaker 2>Out interactions wise. Somewhere in the middle of this, there

1543
01:27:41.600 --> 01:27:44.279
<v Speaker 2>was an insert for an advert. We've done a couple

1544
01:27:44.319 --> 01:27:46.920
<v Speaker 2>of these. Now these are the proper ones, not that

1545
01:27:47.000 --> 01:27:49.520
<v Speaker 2>weird stuff that happened at the end of one episode

1546
01:27:50.000 --> 01:27:52.800
<v Speaker 2>allegedly that some people sent in that wasn't us for

1547
01:27:53.079 --> 01:27:57.359
<v Speaker 2>legal reasons. And some people have been sending in their

1548
01:27:57.920 --> 01:28:00.560
<v Speaker 2>little sort of self read adverts for their or business.

1549
01:28:00.680 --> 01:28:03.439
<v Speaker 2>So we want to keep those going on every week.

1550
01:28:03.720 --> 01:28:05.560
<v Speaker 2>So if you've got one, send it in. So we're

1551
01:28:05.560 --> 01:28:07.680
<v Speaker 2>going to do one a week. So if we get

1552
01:28:07.800 --> 01:28:09.079
<v Speaker 2>a load, you'll have to wait.

1553
01:28:08.920 --> 01:28:11.359
<v Speaker 1>To tell your brother Andy that he can do one

1554
01:28:11.680 --> 01:28:13.479
<v Speaker 1>is amazing matching, Yes, yes.

1555
01:28:13.600 --> 01:28:16.720
<v Speaker 4>I will make sure he is aware of that. Condescend

1556
01:28:16.760 --> 01:28:17.359
<v Speaker 4>to speak to him.

1557
01:28:18.239 --> 01:28:19.479
<v Speaker 2>If you want to know how to send it in,

1558
01:28:19.640 --> 01:28:21.439
<v Speaker 2>then there's an email address in the show notes, or

1559
01:28:21.479 --> 01:28:24.279
<v Speaker 2>you can messages on Instagram, or message me or Richard

1560
01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:28.000
<v Speaker 2>or Amy somewhere on our different social media accounts. But

1561
01:28:28.279 --> 01:28:30.119
<v Speaker 2>just literally send a voice note on your phone in

1562
01:28:30.159 --> 01:28:32.039
<v Speaker 2>whatever app it is. That's all you need to do

1563
01:28:32.199 --> 01:28:34.199
<v Speaker 2>is say who you are, where you are, what you do,

1564
01:28:34.439 --> 01:28:36.960
<v Speaker 2>how people can get hold of you, and that's it.

1565
01:28:37.239 --> 01:28:38.720
<v Speaker 2>It's like a phone in radio show.

1566
01:28:38.800 --> 01:28:42.279
<v Speaker 1>If you can squeeze dunnucks in and their sex lives,

1567
01:28:42.760 --> 01:28:45.319
<v Speaker 1>we'll I'll have to squeeze dunucks well exactly, you know

1568
01:28:45.960 --> 01:28:50.399
<v Speaker 1>cloackle removal. Then, so I'm I would much well I.

1569
01:28:50.439 --> 01:28:53.159
<v Speaker 4>Get I can tell you about the Barbary part trade, shirt,

1570
01:28:53.439 --> 01:28:56.039
<v Speaker 4>sex life, and Gibraltar randomly enough because I had to

1571
01:28:56.319 --> 01:28:59.039
<v Speaker 4>limit the work I was doing up there because of

1572
01:28:59.560 --> 01:29:00.520
<v Speaker 4>the breeder season.

1573
01:29:01.039 --> 01:29:05.079
<v Speaker 1>Randomly enough really the barbary partridge.

1574
01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:06.960
<v Speaker 4>Yes, apparently they only like to get it on in

1575
01:29:07.039 --> 01:29:11.159
<v Speaker 4>the afternoon, so we are to down tools. That's about

1576
01:29:11.239 --> 01:29:15.560
<v Speaker 4>half twelve. As heaven forbid, some construction work would.

1577
01:29:17.119 --> 01:29:19.439
<v Speaker 3>Put the poor barbary partridge off his stroke.

1578
01:29:20.239 --> 01:29:24.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really like that there alone time

1579
01:29:25.039 --> 01:29:25.640
<v Speaker 4>in the afternoon.

1580
01:29:27.239 --> 01:29:30.560
<v Speaker 2>They're basically French. Then the things you.

1581
01:29:30.680 --> 01:29:35.359
<v Speaker 4>Learned when you're in the army, Yes, exactly, amazing habit

1582
01:29:35.479 --> 01:29:39.840
<v Speaker 4>for the barbary partridge twenty years probably persist.

1583
01:29:39.920 --> 01:29:42.800
<v Speaker 3>One of those things you do remember. Yeah, yeah, excellent.

1584
01:29:43.039 --> 01:29:45.159
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well are we all done then, Richard, I think

1585
01:29:45.199 --> 01:29:46.640
<v Speaker 2>we're done. I think we can wind this one at

1586
01:29:46.840 --> 01:29:51.520
<v Speaker 2>excellent up even up. Yes, it's been a long day,

1587
01:29:51.560 --> 01:29:52.199
<v Speaker 2>I've been talking.

1588
01:29:52.560 --> 01:29:56.199
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, thanks again, Andy and everyone.

1589
01:29:56.159 --> 01:30:02.600
<v Speaker 4>Bye bye bye. The table b