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True Murder with 28 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:40.959 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 29 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.840 Good Evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 30 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.079 program True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime 31 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:02.000 history and the authors that have written about them. John Sohus, 32 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:06.840 a twenty somethingter resident year resident of San Marino, California, 33 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:11.039 was allegedly murdered in nineteen eighty five by conman Christian 34 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:16.080 Karl gerhartswriter, who had become infamous under his most known alias, 35 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:21.360 Clark Rockefeller. Rockefeller the prime suspect and So's murder may 36 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:24.360 have been the last person to see him alive. Nine 37 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:27.840 years after his death, SOAS's bones were dug up in 38 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.719 the backyard of the home he once shared with his wife, Linda, 39 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:36.319 whose whereabouts remained unknown. Rockefeller's two thousand and eight arrest 40 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:39.400 for abducting his own daughter put him squarely in the 41 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:44.360 crosshairs of the decades only decades old sous homicide case. 42 00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:51.479 Upon Rockefeller's arrest, girardou began placing together the convoluted tale 43 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.719 in a series of articles for the Pasadena Star News. 44 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:59.439 His research resulted in Name Dropper, which reveals inside information 45 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:03.120 about the case. Girardo says is the most fantastic he's 46 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.199 scene in his twenty five years as an investigative reporter. 47 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:09.759 The book that we are featuring this evening is Name Dropper, 48 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:14.199 Investigating the Clark Rockefeller Mystery with my special guest, journalist 49 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:18.199 and author Frank C. Girardo. Welcome to the program, and 50 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:22.240 thank you for agreeing to this interview. Frank Girardo, Thanks 51 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:25.800 a lot, Dan, I really appreciate it's thanks to be 52 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:28.039 able to come on and talk about this story because 53 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:29.280 it is pretty compelling. 54 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:34.240 It it stretches over many decades and across the United 55 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.120 States and involves some pretty quirky characters. 56 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:40.719 Now, I think it's important to the story and lots 57 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:45.080 of times I often ask why somebody felt it, why 58 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:47.680 they were compelled to write this story, and I guess 59 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:50.719 in answering this question, you will answer that question. But 60 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:54.759 let's give our audience your background because I think obviously 61 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:57.159 your background is very important to how you came to 62 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:01.400 this story and how influence unt you you were in 63 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:05.240 basically being part of the story, we'll say, and we'll 64 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:07.560 explain that, and you'll be able to explain that to 65 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:09.680 our alredience a little bit later. So tell us about 66 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.960 your background as a journalist, where you were, and just 67 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:14.960 tell us about your background before we get into this 68 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:15.800 incredible story. 69 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:20.160 Yes, I'd be happy to I'm a longtime newspaper reporter. 70 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:24.120 All in Los Angeles. I worked at the Los Angeles 71 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:27.560 Herald Examiner, which folded in eighty nine. I moved around 72 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:29.600 a little bit and I ended up at the Pasadena 73 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:33.000 Star News. I've most of my career, I've been a 74 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:36.759 police reporter, which means working at night and making a 75 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:42.399 lot of cop calls. In nineteen ninety four, police in 76 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:44.639 the small town of San Marino dug up a body 77 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:48.040 and I just happened to be on scene at the time, 78 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:54.120 talking to neighbors and people that lived there, and a 79 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:56.000 guy said to me, I know who that is. That's 80 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:58.959 John Sellis, And I bet the guy that used to 81 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:03.959 live here, and that stuck with me. That was in 82 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:07.240 May ninety four. Later that year, I was in the 83 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:10.839 coroner's office doing a story on the O. J. Simpson case, 84 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:16.600 and I happened to have the opportunity to see the 85 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:20.879 remains of John Solis and actually hold the parts of 86 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:26.160 his skull in my hand. It was very unique experience, obviously, 87 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:29.199 and it happened to me again after in two thousand 88 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:32.199 and three when I was writing a book on a 89 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:38.079 completely different topic. And so when Clark Rockefeller was in 90 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:41.399 the news for kidnapping his daughter in Boston, they all 91 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.720 came flooding back, and it gave me a I had 92 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.040 a unique perspective because I had been covering this case 93 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:51.759 since ninety four, this homicide case, and b once my 94 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:54.560 old sources said, hey, you know this guy, Clark Rockefeller 95 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:56.600 that they're looking for, he looks a lot like the 96 00:05:56.600 --> 00:05:58.959 guy they want for that murder in San Marino way 97 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:01.480 back when I put all the pieces together and started 98 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:03.759 writing stories about it, and I think some of those 99 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:09.120 stories had an influence on how the police ultimately approached 100 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:14.560 the case and how it was prosecuted. There's a lot 101 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.079 of twists and turns, and you know a lot of 102 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:20.439 them are in the book Name Dropper, which is on 103 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:23.879 you can only get on the internet at Rockefeller Mystery 104 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:27.360 dot Com. And I detailed them all there. 105 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:32.639 Right now, you had the opportunity you said this was 106 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:36.839 you know, this really struck you at the time. And 107 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:41.040 then in retrospect, once you had seen that Rockefeller had 108 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:44.480 been charged in Boston for abducting his daughter, again you 109 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.120 made some connections. But what you said, you had a 110 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:51.279 skull in your hand. For our audience, how was at 111 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.560 least according to the coroner, how was John SaaS killed? 112 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:59.920 Well, so the coroner believed, even back in nineteen ninety 113 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.800 for that this person, John Sois, had been bludgeoned to death. 114 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:08.879 His skull had been broken into several pieces, and in 115 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:12.199 ninety four almost there were seven pieces that they had 116 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.000 were in a paper bag. By two thousand and three 117 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.120 they had taken the seven pieces and sort of reconstructed them, 118 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:23.759 and you could actually look at the skull and with 119 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:27.360 a you know, an expert describing what happened, see how 120 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:32.000 where the blows were delivered and how they affected this 121 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.399 skull initially in cracking it and then splitting it open 122 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.800 and causing you know, great injury to John Sois that 123 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:41.240 ultimately proved fatal. 124 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:46.560 Speculate did the coroner speculate it all to the weapon used? 125 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:49.399 Well, you know, there's you know, they said it was 126 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:52.439 a blunt object there. You know, at one time it 127 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:55.800 was described as a rounded blunt object like a baseball bat. 128 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:02.120 At other times it's been described as a two by four. Unfortunately, 129 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:06.839 there was something else played into determining how exactly John 130 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:10.519 died by looking at the skull, and that is when 131 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:12.839 the body was dug up. It was during a swimming 132 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:16.920 pool excavation. That was nine years after it was buried. 133 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:19.839 And you know when they did. When they dig a 134 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:22.800 swimming pool, they use these bobcats and they're like a 135 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:28.759 big tractor, you know, and so the the tractor broke 136 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:35.200 the skull into more little pieces, which so putting it together, 137 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:39.320 they needed an expert that could say, okay, look, these 138 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:42.799 injuries occurred when this person was alive, and these injuries 139 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:46.600 to the skull occurred from the bobcat. So one of 140 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:49.120 the things that this case has is some really interesting 141 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:52.159 forensic science. Yeah. 142 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:56.200 Absolutely, yeah, So I wanted to get to that because 143 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:00.279 that's again, it's all very big part of the huge 144 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:02.399 puzzle here. So you gotta again, this is really is 145 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:09.200 a mystery. Now tell us about go back to of course, 146 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:12.799 the main character in this story that Clark Rockefeller. He's 147 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:16.000 gone through various aliases and then he wound up with 148 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:20.480 Clark Rockefeller. We can talk about that as well, but 149 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:26.399 tell us about the German immigrant exchange student Christian Carl 150 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:30.240 Gerhardt writer Gerharts writer. 151 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:34.919 Christian Karl Gerharts Rider Christian Karl Gerhartz Rider is a 152 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:40.679 German national. He grew up in a tiny town in Bavaria, which, 153 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:43.600 if you know Germany, it's the southern part of Germany. 154 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:48.080 And his little town was on a road that connected 155 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:53.039 Munich in Germany and Salzburg and Austria. He met an 156 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:58.080 American couple in the late seventies and came to the 157 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.559 United States using their name, and he posed as an 158 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:06.759 exchange student. He wound up in Berlin, Connecticut, which you 159 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:12.000 know sounds very German, doesn't. They attended high school there 160 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:18.519 as Christian Gerhart's writer or Chris, and moved across the country, 161 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:22.240 first stopping in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where he attended the University 162 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.080 of Wisconsin Milwaukee, and this will play a role later 163 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:29.759 in the story. And he left, he got married, got 164 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:34.200 a green card, left Wisconsin and came to California and 165 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:39.799 reinvented himself. No longer as Christopher Chris Gerhart's writer. He 166 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:44.600 was now Christopher Chichester, the thirteenth Baronet of Chichester, whatever 167 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:47.879 that means. If bamboozled a lot of people though, because 168 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:50.720 he was now posing as you know, the scion of 169 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:55.159 British Royalty. And sam Marino is a rather upper crust 170 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:58.799 community in eastern Los Angeles County. Not a place where 171 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:03.879 there's high crime. It's a place where, you know, the 172 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.399 titans of industry live, be it the publishing industry, the 173 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:10.679 movie industry. You think Beverly Hills, but a lot of 174 00:11:10.679 --> 00:11:13.320 them live in San Marino too, and there's a lot 175 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:17.279 of money there. So and here comes this guy posing 176 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:21.360 as royalty. Well, it doesn't matter what your background is 177 00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:25.360 or what your business is. He's learned quickly that people 178 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:28.480 liked royalty and liked to glom Onto Royalty because they've 179 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.000 they felt that it gave some sort of a legitimacy 180 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:34.600 to whatever their pursuits were. So he made a lot 181 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:40.240 of friends. But really he was living in the guest house, 182 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:45.000 more like the garage or the shed behind a you know, 183 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:49.919 a dumpy house in the poorer section of town, but 184 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:54.159 pretending to be something else. And the house that he 185 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:58.200 lived in was occupied by an older woman who d 186 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:02.440 d sois. He was a heavy drinker, a heavy smoker. 187 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:06.759 She'd been a party girl all of her life, and 188 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:09.320 in her final days she was living in this house, 189 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:13.120 running out the back house to Chris. She had a 190 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:16.000 son about Chris's age. She was twenty eight. His name 191 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:20.240 was John. John got married and him and his wife, Linda, 192 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:23.600 moved into the house with Dedie. So now we have 193 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:28.200 four people living on this property, Chris, John, and Dedie 194 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:37.360 and Linda. And what happened is Linda and John, we're 195 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.000 kind of unhappy living with Dedi being that she was 196 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:42.519 a drinker and a smoker and a heavy alcoholic and 197 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:45.600 all these sort of bad things. And Linda wanted to 198 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:49.320 move out. And I think that they had some intention 199 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:52.039 possibly to move into this guest house, but of course 200 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:55.639 there's a renter there. He's paying rent, and it wasn't 201 00:12:55.639 --> 00:13:01.039 gonna be that easy. In nineteen eighty five, Linda disappeared. 202 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:07.000 Just prior to their disappearance, Linda told several of their 203 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:12.480 friends that John had gotten the job in Connecticut working 204 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:16.320 for the government in some sort of top secret, hush 205 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:19.919 hush job, and that Linda would said that she was 206 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:23.120 going to be going there also because they needed her 207 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:28.240 to do some artwork. She was an artist. The couple disappeared, 208 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:33.759 and after several weeks, her family became concerned. Linda's family 209 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:36.960 became very concerned, and they called the police, and the 210 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:42.039 police came over and they visited with Dedi, and Dedi said, 211 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:44.440 don't worry about my son and his wife. They're on 212 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.600 a secret mission and I have a source who's in 213 00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:51.240 contact with them. He's talking to them every day and 214 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:54.519 relaying messages to me. And she didn't say who her 215 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.600 secret source was, but she implied that the secret source 216 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:00.879 was Chris living in the guest house. 217 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:06.120 Well how did she sorry, how did she imply that? 218 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:09.360 Well, you know how like you say I have a 219 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:11.879 secret source, and then your eyes kind of like turn 220 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:18.120 your head turned nods to the back house. It was that, 221 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:21.240 it was It was yeah, it wasn't really subtle, because 222 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.720 police did pick up on that, and in fact, on 223 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.399 a subsequent visit when they came out to talk about 224 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:31.120 the missing couple, an officer actually went to the back 225 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.720 house and he knocked on the door and the door 226 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:41.000 opens and Chris comes out wearing exactly nothing. He's completely naked, 227 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.600 you know. The officer being you know, a macho sort 228 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:48.919 of you know police officer back in nineteen eighty five, 229 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.399 said hey, what's wrong with you? Chris is well, sir, 230 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.519 I'm the nudist, and the officer, you know, averted his 231 00:14:56.600 --> 00:14:59.039 eye and said, put your damn clothes on and left 232 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:03.720 without ever checking the house, the grounds or anything. He 233 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:08.320 was put off by this naked, quick thinking mercer suspect 234 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:13.679 and left. Yeah. So several more weeks go by, and 235 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:18.960 then Chris disappears, and when he leaves, he's driving the 236 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:23.960 missing couple's pickup truck. DD calls the police again. She 237 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:27.240 says that she now wants to add on to the 238 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:33.159 missing person's report, which she does, and nineteen eighty five 239 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:37.240 comes and goes. DD sells the house, moves out, Chris 240 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:41.360 is gone, and she never hears from her son or 241 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:46.960 daughter in law again. However, friends of Linda's, just prior 242 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:50.879 to Chris's disappearance received some postcards. All of them came 243 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.799 from Paris, France. All of them had a really cryptic 244 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:57.759 message on it said something like, sorry miss New York, 245 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.559 but this can be lived with. And each of these 246 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.480 post guards will have a picture of the Iceland Power 247 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:10.320 or Versailles or you know the Palais Justice, which are 248 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:13.919 famous uh Parisian landmarks. And s her friends bought it. 249 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.840 Huh okay, I guess she's in Paris. You know, no 250 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:22.559 big deal, they bought it. Yeahs. So you know there's 251 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:24.919 a lot of there was a sort of a lot 252 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:27.120 of these red herrings that were tossed out by this 253 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:32.120 murder suspect. But he was brazen too. Before leaving, he 254 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:35.159 had a trivial pursuit game in the backyard with several 255 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:39.679 young ladies who asked him, Hey, why is the backyard 256 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:43.240 all dug up Chris, to which he replied, well, they're 257 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:47.159 doing plumbing. Plumbing goes nowhere near where this dig was, 258 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:49.679 and it turns out later, of course, that's where John's 259 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.919 body was actually buried. So he's a pretty brazen guy. 260 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.200 He leaves Sam Marino. 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Remember now, it's nineteen eighty eight, 293 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:38.440 so there's not a lot of ways to check people's stories. 294 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:40.960 And one of the things that Chris has picked up 295 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:44.440 along the way is that props really help him tell 296 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:47.599 the tale. So he's got some posters from Alfred Hitchcock 297 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:49.559 and a couple of movie posters and they have Chris 298 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:52.200 Crow on it. Well, there's no reason to believe he's 299 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:57.359 not Chris Crow, and people believe it. Well, so that's assuming. 300 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:01.680 So sorry, is he assuming someone's real identity? 301 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:06.400 Yeah? Yeah, Well Chris Crowe was an actual h movie 302 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:10.960 producer who worked on uh, you know, Alfred Hitchcock and 303 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:14.000 uh was the brother of Cameron Crowe. And yeah, he 304 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:16.759 assumed a real guy's identity, but nobody knew who he 305 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.640 was or who Christopher Chichester was or any of that, 306 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:23.359 and he still played up the royal heritage in Grantwich. 307 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:25.880 He said he was a mout batton. Uh that would 308 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:29.799 be Prince Philip's uh relatives, and he frequently intimated to 309 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:32.960 people that he had an aunt, Elizabeth, who lived in Windsor. 310 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.599 I think we all know who that is. Let me 311 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:40.720 buy into this anyway, He's living there for a few 312 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:44.079 years and he gets he starts getting jobs. He gets worked. 313 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:48.720 He's working uh as a bond trader, first for SNOPS, 314 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.839 famous junk bond king of the mid to late eighties. 315 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:52.720 Uh. 316 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.839 Well, he he's exposed as a fraud at s n 317 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.960 Thhops and he moves on to Neco's Securities, which is, 318 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:05.279 you know, midtown Manhattan Japanese security firm. And as you 319 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.400 remember in the mid eighties, the Japanese were buying up 320 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:10.960 securities in real estates like Nobody's business. So this is 321 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.680 a pretty big, pretty powerful company. And he leaves there 322 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.720 and gets a job at Kidder Peabody and was you know, 323 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:23.160 going to be on the Kidder Peabody eurobond desk selling 324 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:25.920 eurobonds and making three hundred thousand dollars a year in commission. 325 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:31.119 There's just one. Right before he moves to New York City, 326 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:34.680 he decides to get rid of the truck and he 327 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.799 sells it to young man who's the son of the 328 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:43.000 episcopal Bishop of Greenwich. When the young man goes to 329 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:47.720 register the car, it tips off authorities in California that 330 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.599 it's missing. Couple's truck has turned up and Nissan has 331 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:53.599 a lean on it because they didn't been paid for 332 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.279 three years. So they come out and talk to the 333 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:01.880 bishop's son and he says, I bought it from a guy, 334 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:08.640 Christopher Crowe. Well, British police track Christopher Crowe first to 335 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:12.880 Eco Securities, then to a Kidd Peabody, but he's a 336 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:18.000 step ahead and he vanishes. Nobody ever follows up on 337 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:22.480 and kind of goes away. But he's hooked up with girl. 338 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:28.720 He's engaging in counter surveillance. He's actively doing things that 339 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:31.920 people in nineteen eighty eight didn't do. His routine, that'd 340 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:37.160 be shredding trash, being very careful of, you know, identity, 341 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:43.519 sort of questions. He maintained post office boxes in Pennsylvania 342 00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.279 and Connecticut. He was really wildly and crafty guy, and 343 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:50.960 in nineteen eighty nine. Him and this girlfriend are after 344 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:56.079 dinner and he calls down to a restaurant trying to 345 00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:01.319 get a reservation. The restaurant brushes him off, and he's 346 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:05.680 disturbed by that, so he calls again and he says, 347 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:09.880 my name is Clark Rockefeller. I would like dinner tonight 348 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:12.160 at your establishment and there will be two of us. Wow, 349 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:15.400 mister Rockefeller, we would love to have you come and 350 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:18.359 eat here. And of course, instantly he realized the power 351 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:22.559 of a name change, especially one that was American royalty 352 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:28.799 would have and as a you know, wanted in connection 353 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:32.440 with a missing person's case, he becomes Clark Rockefeller. 354 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:32.599 And. 355 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:39.319 You know, woo's Now he's wooing the upper echelon of Manhattan, 356 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:43.119 Boston and East Coast society. 357 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:48.440 Now he's a I mean, obviously he's an effective con 358 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.160 man because if you're in Los Angeles area talking to 359 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.319 everybody's in film, every waitress is in film, everyone's in film, 360 00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.519 and he's and he's talking to people about film, and 361 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.279 and then he's an impostor as well. So he's a 362 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:07.839 brilliant con man. He says, he trades bonds. This guy 363 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.039 is an amazing guy, But how does he really pull 364 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.400 off Rockefeller. If there's anything that can illustrate how much 365 00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:18.200 how he can do this, How could he pass himself 366 00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:21.839 off as one of the wealthiest, most powerful families in 367 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:22.359 the world. 368 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:26.920 Well, anybody that has run into his family will tell 369 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:30.079 you that he kind of looks like a Rockefeller. That's 370 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:32.519 the first thing. So that kind of helps. But that's 371 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:36.920 not really it's so simple it'll blow your mind. He 372 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:39.799 had the girlfriend get an additional credit card and put 373 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.720 the name Clark Rockefeller on it. That was all it took. 374 00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:46.000 He's got a credit card with the name of Clark Rockefeller. Yeah, 375 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.359 he didn't have any other idea, didn't have a driver's license, 376 00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:53.240 didn't have anything, probably have a library card. But people 377 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:57.839 believed it. And you know, his personality was such that 378 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.440 with quick and people thought, well, you know it's the 379 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.000 that's the way these wealthy people are, and they're quirky 380 00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:09.680 like that. So it actually added to his weirdness, added 381 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:11.839 to the perception that people had that, well he might 382 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:13.759 just be a Rockefeller. And of course he does have 383 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.440 a credit card that says that. Now there's one other 384 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:20.079 thing you have to consider here. Yeah, here we are, 385 00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:22.720 we're talking on the internet. Really basically, and this is 386 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.599 gonna be shared on the Internet. But in nineteen eighty eight, 387 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:29.839 when he becomes Clark Rockefeller eighty eight eighty nine, there 388 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.359 was no Internet. There was no way to check on people. 389 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:36.839 There was no way to you know, there was no Wikipedia, 390 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:41.680 no Google, no hardly even really an Internet to speak 391 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.079 of that would verify facts like this in a lot 392 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:49.160 of ways. Because of that, he's really America's last great imposter, 393 00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:53.599 you know people just as you know, it wasn't common 394 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.920 practice back then to google or wikipedia people when you 395 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.920 met him, So he was able to you know, pull 396 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.480 it off. I think because of that, because of the 397 00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:05.400 fact he had this credit card and he bore some 398 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:09.160 you know, passing resemblance to you know, a member of 399 00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:12.400 the Rockefeller family. And of course some people would query 400 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:14.680 him on it. He would say, well, you know, it's 401 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.599