Speaker 1: When you wake up in the morning. Not only do
Speaker 1: I want you to say my job is to attach
Speaker 1: myself to the biggest business issue. Your job is also
Speaker 1: to bring technical requirements and connect them to business outcomes.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the audible Ready podcast, the show that
Speaker 2: helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature
Speaker 2: sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create
Speaker 2: a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth.
Speaker 2: Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in
Speaker 2: B to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to the audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm
Speaker 3: Rachel Klett Miller. Today we are going to talk about
Speaker 3: finding the biggest business problem in the company in your
Speaker 3: customer company. John Kaplan is a master, as you all know,
Speaker 3: at coaching reps to do this, and he joins me today.
Speaker 1: Hi John, Hey Rachel. I'm excited about this one because,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it's coming up for me every day,
Speaker 1: a really common topic right now, so I'm glad to
Speaker 1: talk about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this topic has been coming up in our
Speaker 3: Ascender community. That's our online platform for sales reps and teams.
Speaker 3: We have a community there where people ask questions and
Speaker 3: it comes up frequently. All reps know they need to
Speaker 3: get to the biggest business problem. Right, that's not a challenge.
Speaker 3: You know you need to do that. However, the execution
Speaker 3: of doing that and the push to get higher often
Speaker 3: trips them up. So let's try to provide some additional
Speaker 3: how in the conversation today.
Speaker 1: That's awesome, So we're still in the context setting piece here.
Speaker 1: But for me, everybody listening to this, you have to
Speaker 1: wake up every morning and tell yourself that your job
Speaker 1: is to attach yourself to the customer's biggest business issue.
Speaker 1: So before we go on to some hows, I want
Speaker 1: you to just sit with that and say to yourself,
Speaker 1: I either believe that or I don't. And if you
Speaker 1: don't believe it, or you don't, think you have to,
Speaker 1: maybe your job. I can't think of any jobs that
Speaker 1: don't need that. So I think you should be listening
Speaker 1: to exactly what we're talking about today. So we're going
Speaker 1: to be talking about getting to the right people and
Speaker 1: with the right information, and we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: doing that through discovery, and ultimately your job is to
Speaker 1: I want you to think about this too. I want
Speaker 1: you to think about two circles where they come together,
Speaker 1: and there's an intersection in the middle. And that intersection
Speaker 1: is between where the technical problems and challenges for a
Speaker 1: company connect to business outcomes, alleviate business problems and challenges.
Speaker 1: And when you wake up in the morning, you've got
Speaker 1: to say, that's what I do for a living. I
Speaker 1: stand right in the middle of technical problems and business outcomes.
Speaker 1: And so I'm excited to talk to you a little
Speaker 1: bit more about that as Rachel leads us through some
Speaker 1: good navigation here.
Speaker 3: Yes, my goal for the day, So let's talk a
Speaker 3: little bit about the who in these conversations. That makes
Speaker 3: a difference when you're trying to attach to the biggest
Speaker 3: business problem. What happens when your initial con intact lacks
Speaker 3: the perspective of how they relate to the broader company.
Speaker 3: I know a lot of reps run into this, like
Speaker 3: you're asking the right questions as a salesperson, but the
Speaker 3: person doesn't know the answers. What do you do?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a good question, and I think it is.
Speaker 1: That kind of thing's coming up all the time. It's like,
Speaker 1: if I'm talking to somebody that'll have the answers, you know,
Speaker 1: what do I do? There was an old saying when
Speaker 1: I was growing up in sales, if you're asking questions
Speaker 1: to somebody who can't answer them, go find someone who can.
Speaker 1: And I really like that when I was younger. I
Speaker 1: like that it gave me confidence and conviction, meaning I'm
Speaker 1: not going to suffer and stay with somebody that is
Speaker 1: unwilling to give me answers. It is trying to be
Speaker 1: a gatekeeper. But that's not the question you asked. So
Speaker 1: I want to be very clear. I think that that
Speaker 1: advice is not bad advice. I just want to tweak
Speaker 1: it a little bit. The best discovery questions or when
Speaker 1: you're asking people questions that they have not already thought about,
Speaker 1: So think about that. My goal is to ask people
Speaker 1: questions that they don't have the answer to or that
Speaker 1: they haven't thought about. And I don't want you to
Speaker 1: immediately run out of the room just because they don't
Speaker 1: They haven't made that connection. Now you have to compare
Speaker 1: yourself to ask questions that people haven't already thought about,
Speaker 1: and then you have to make a decision because sometimes
Speaker 1: you'll ask people questions that they won't have the answer to,
Speaker 1: and you have to think about I still need the information. Now,
Speaker 1: Why would I not try to figure out how to
Speaker 1: take that person with me. If it's a good question
Speaker 1: and you would expect that that person should be able
Speaker 1: to answer it, and they're not answering it because they
Speaker 1: might not know the connection. This opens up the door
Speaker 1: for you to move in the account. But always consider
Speaker 1: bringing that person with you on the move. I always
Speaker 1: like to say to myself, and I said it to
Speaker 1: customers too. Before I out the door, I'd look back
Speaker 1: at the customer, I'd say, hey, you need to you know,
Speaker 1: we established that I needed to go talk to so
Speaker 1: and so and blah blah blah. And I didn't just
Speaker 1: run out of the room. I said, hey, you need
Speaker 1: the answer to this too, why don't you come with me?
Speaker 1: And here's what I learned, rachel Is. I found that
Speaker 1: when I brought people along while I was moving, or
Speaker 1: they were actually bringing me along while we were moving
Speaker 1: multi threaded in an account, the conversations were warmer. There
Speaker 1: was always someone who had context in the conversation. It
Speaker 1: was easier for me to get appointments for these next
Speaker 1: calls because I utilized those people that didn't have the
Speaker 1: answer to help me get to the next meeting. So
Speaker 1: again I find that scenario happening a lot with technical sales,
Speaker 1: if you will. So we're asking technical people typically business
Speaker 1: implication problems and they struggle with it, and it's just,
Speaker 1: you know, there's no doubt, like, your job is the
Speaker 1: sellers to connect technical problems to business outcomes. Don't miss
Speaker 1: an opportunity to bring somebody along with you, make the
Speaker 1: call warmer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know the political landscape is at play
Speaker 3: here as well. You know you talk about bringing them
Speaker 3: with you. I'd love to hear your tips about how
Speaker 3: to do that. And then also like, do you ask
Speaker 3: for an intro to a higher up employee or do
Speaker 3: you just go around and see if you connect with
Speaker 3: somebody which could have other implications. What's your advice there?
Speaker 1: It's really good because this is a this is we're
Speaker 1: talking about kind of skill and art a little bit. Look,
Speaker 1: your job is to not piss anybody off. Your job
Speaker 1: is to not make anybody feel bad. Your job is
Speaker 1: also to map customer requirements to your solutions and sell stuff.
Speaker 1: So I always first try to move around with people
Speaker 1: on the inside because that it might not necessarily mean
Speaker 1: that you know, you're bringing everybody along in a conversation,
Speaker 1: but you should always consider it. Again, I talked about
Speaker 1: former context champion building. I've brought technical people to business
Speaker 1: outcome conversations and I've made it their idea. And you know,
Speaker 1: like my grandmother used to say, you don't need the credit,
Speaker 1: you need the money. And I think the people that
Speaker 1: are very, very savvy on relationships and how power and
Speaker 1: influence works in cibeer an account, you should always look
Speaker 1: to bring people along with you. Now, if you decide
Speaker 1: not to utilize somebody from a previous conversation, for example,
Speaker 1: there's gatekeepers that will tell you you're going nowhere inside
Speaker 1: of this company without me, or I don't want you
Speaker 1: calling on that individual, or they're just an idiot, Sorry,
Speaker 1: they're just an idiot, or they're an enemy, which is
Speaker 1: somebody else's champion. You have to be savvy enough to
Speaker 1: figure that out, and sometimes you have to go alone.
Speaker 1: Look to bring people along. But if people are trying
Speaker 1: to stiff arm you and keep you out of places,
Speaker 1: it tells me a lot. It tells me either they
Speaker 1: don't trust us, or they don't understand what we're doing,
Speaker 1: or the worst possible scenario is they understand very well
Speaker 1: what we're doing, and they're trying to protect one of
Speaker 1: your competitors, and you just got to be sad enough
Speaker 1: to figure that out. So I'm always careful not to
Speaker 1: tell you that you have to ask for permission for
Speaker 1: moving around an account, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. I don't believe I have to
Speaker 1: ask anybody's permission. I think it's common courtesy to let
Speaker 1: people know, and I think the smartest sellers figure out
Speaker 1: a way to get people emotionally connected to helping them
Speaker 1: move in the account. So again, when you ask a
Speaker 1: question they don't have the answer to that they need
Speaker 1: to know, figure out a way to get help moving on,
Speaker 1: which includes stopping talking to them if they're purposefully holding
Speaker 1: the information from you. So I know that's kind of
Speaker 1: a a ball thrown up in the air there a
Speaker 1: little bit, Rachel, But I think it's really really important.
Speaker 1: I find that it's easier to move into account when
Speaker 1: you're moving with hall passes, when you're moving with con iteration,
Speaker 1: when you're moving with people inside the company. But I'm
Speaker 1: not telling you can't be successful if you didn't bring
Speaker 1: somebody with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, you mentioned the technical sale, right,
Speaker 3: which sometimes in those conversations they are important, but they
Speaker 3: can get us stuck too. So I think it's also
Speaker 3: important to say that you don't want to ignore the
Speaker 3: value that you can bring to the person with that
Speaker 3: technical solving a technical problem. But if you're solving technical pain,
Speaker 3: you're only doing one part, right, It's still valid, but
Speaker 3: you want to multi thread the deal.
Speaker 1: I really liked the way you said that. I think
Speaker 1: it's a really, really good way to put it, and
Speaker 1: I want to use that analogy. I want you to look.
Speaker 1: If you're listening right now and you have the ability
Speaker 1: to see your feet, I want you to look down
Speaker 1: at your two feet on the ground and one of
Speaker 1: those you know, one foot needs to be in the
Speaker 1: technical part of the organization and conversations, and the other
Speaker 1: foot needs to be in the business part of the organization.
Speaker 1: Your job is to stand in both worlds and bring
Speaker 1: them together. So when you wake up in the morning,
Speaker 1: not only do I want you to say my job
Speaker 1: is to attach myself to the biggest business issue, your
Speaker 1: job is also to bring technical requirements and connect them
Speaker 1: to business outcomes. Let's just use the simple fact. Every
Speaker 1: year they do a CIO and the big consulting firms
Speaker 1: will you know, you can just google it top CIO
Speaker 1: concerns And for me the last twenty years that I've
Speaker 1: been looking at it, they're asked the same question every
Speaker 1: year and their top priorities or surveys AI will be
Speaker 1: in there, blah blah blah. What's always in there and
Speaker 1: the top three to five is they always come back
Speaker 1: with align it to business as a top challenge. This
Speaker 1: is exactly what you do for a living if you
Speaker 1: are selling technical sales or IT software that's connecting IT
Speaker 1: solutions to business outcomes. And I should tell you something.
Speaker 1: Every CIO will say one of my biggest challenges is
Speaker 1: connecting it to the business. And that tells youself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, John, I also want to go back to a
Speaker 3: sales fundamental that's related to this. We often talk about
Speaker 3: you want to make sure that you're also digging enough
Speaker 3: with each contact during your discovery and not just assuming
Speaker 3: that they don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I love that because you'll hear me say,
Speaker 1: and you've done this in some of the interviews we've done,
Speaker 1: is that I say go deeper, go deeper, And what
Speaker 1: we mean by that is too. It's our job to
Speaker 1: implicate the pain. And when we're talking about that, sometimes
Speaker 1: people jump off the pain. They don't ever get to
Speaker 1: the pain, Rachel. They get to a challenge or a concern,
Speaker 1: but they don't get to the pain. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: how to do that this conversation we're having. There's a
Speaker 1: couple of ways to do it, or there's a couple
Speaker 1: of things we need to do. We need to implicate
Speaker 1: problems and challenges to real pain. And the way that
Speaker 1: you do that is you help the customer stand in
Speaker 1: the moment of the pain by asking them about real scenarios,
Speaker 1: find out who cares about it. So a lot of
Speaker 1: times what I'll find is sellers will jump off somebody
Speaker 1: say yeah, you know, that's a challenge for us, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the you know, the seller
Speaker 1: gets excited and says, Oh, that's the pain. That's not
Speaker 1: the pain, that's the challenge. The only way for you
Speaker 1: to understand the pain is to ask questions. You've heard
Speaker 1: us talked about TED questions before, and they're really not questions.
Speaker 1: There are more statements, but we call them TED questions.
Speaker 1: Tell me about, Explain for me, Describe for me, because
Speaker 1: you got to make that customer sit in the moment
Speaker 1: of a real life example to get to the pain
Speaker 1: and ask questions like who cared about that so it
Speaker 1: was late and it was over budget. Who gave you
Speaker 1: feedback that that was a problem. How did you communicate
Speaker 1: that back to the customer? My favorite question is what
Speaker 1: are you doing to make sure that that never happens again?
Speaker 1: And like those three questions right there were HL would
Speaker 1: be an unbelievable seller because you make that customer stand
Speaker 1: in the moment of pain. And a lot of times
Speaker 1: I'm just quiet and I look the customer and basically
Speaker 1: they're telling me nothing. We're not doing anything, and they
Speaker 1: know they should be, so it just helps them stand
Speaker 1: in their moment of pain. You Like we say, Rachel,
Speaker 1: it's like the more you tell me I have a problem,
Speaker 1: the more I'm going to resist you. But the more
Speaker 1: you ask great discovery questions that make me stand in
Speaker 1: my moment of pain, I'm going to convince myself I
Speaker 1: have a problem with urgency. So then we take that
Speaker 1: technical pain and we implicate it further into business pain.
Speaker 1: So we're always going to ask ourselves what's the biggest
Speaker 1: business issue facing this customer and we're going to force
Speaker 1: ourselves to find the answer and then attached to it.
Speaker 1: But it typically starts with technical challenges which turns into
Speaker 1: real life pain with specific examples, which turns into business
Speaker 1: opportunities and business outcomes. For me, that's the how.
Speaker 3: Right, that's it. That's it. There's a lot here, John,
Speaker 3: and this discussion today critical skill for sellers to have.
Speaker 3: I think my goal with these podcasts, and I know
Speaker 3: probably for you too, is for people to just listen
Speaker 3: to them in the morning or whenever and just get
Speaker 3: like one nugget that's going to help you be a
Speaker 3: better seller that week, that day. And I think you've
Speaker 3: done that. You've definitely done that here today, maybe a
Speaker 3: couple of golden nuggets for people. I'd love for you
Speaker 3: to wrap us up with a bottom line.
Speaker 1: Okay, So for me, you have to accept the fact
Speaker 1: that in today's world, you have to be multi threaded
Speaker 1: on sales campaigns. It's really rare if you're not multi threaded.
Speaker 1: I can't really think of any of them that I'm
Speaker 1: involved with, or any of them that i've heard, any
Speaker 1: of the people that I interact with, if they're not
Speaker 1: multi threaded. I guarantee. It's a red flag. So just
Speaker 1: know that you've got to move in these accounts. You've
Speaker 1: got to move up and down. You got to move
Speaker 1: down and up. You've heard us talk about M and W.
Speaker 1: Before you got to move. You got to ask questions
Speaker 1: that they've not thought about, and if they don't have
Speaker 1: the answers, you've got to go get them. But try
Speaker 1: to bring people along with you. Get people emostly connected
Speaker 1: to the problem, and give them the credit for helping
Speaker 1: you connect to somebody who can connect it to the
Speaker 1: business implication. Give them all the credit. You just need
Speaker 1: the money. Implicate challenges to real life pain, go deeper.
Speaker 1: Use those ted questions, tell me about give me an
Speaker 1: example described for me. Those are great ones to do that.
Speaker 1: And then the uber thing that we've been talking about
Speaker 1: all this podcast is you need to connect technical pain
Speaker 1: to business outcomes. You must bring those two worlds together.
Speaker 1: If I'm on an airplane, somebody says, hey, you know
Speaker 1: what does your software do? It creates opportunities for technical
Speaker 1: challenges to connect to business outcomes. I mean, at the
Speaker 1: very basic fundamental, you have to believe that's what you
Speaker 1: do for a living. That's it.
Speaker 3: Thank you, John, You're welcome. Go get them all right.
Speaker 3: Thank you to all of you for listening to the
Speaker 3: Audible Readies Sales podcast.
Speaker 4: At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into
Speaker 4: elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company
Speaker 4: alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the
Speaker 4: ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale.
Speaker 4: Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results.
Speaker 4: Let's get started. Visit us at forcemanagement dot com.
Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Audible Ready podcast. To not
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Speaker 2: podcast player. Until next time.