WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:07.519 Get ready. 2 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:17.280 February nineteen, twenty twenty five, allegedly according to that thing 3 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:19.480 we call a calendar. And you know what's funny is 4 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:23.440 I completely was unable to get the anniversary show on 5 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:28.559 the fifteenth out. But that's okay. Sometimes it's better to 6 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:32.799 not have certain things happen anyway. Wednesday Wednesday, and last 7 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:37.240 week we did the show where we played the tape, right, 8 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:39.679 and I've already heard back from a couple of you 9 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:42.560 comparing you know, the Alex Jones version of what happened 10 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:45.600 to what happened here with mister Stevens, and of course 11 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.600 with mister Hancock, who was not on the Alex Jones show. 12 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:51.640 You know, I kind of have double edged wishes for Larry. 13 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:54.520 I'd love to see him on Alex Jones because it 14 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:58.079 would raise his profile a bit, But then again, would 15 00:00:58.119 --> 00:00:59.399 it be a quality interview? 16 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:04.599 There's the question anyway, not here to criticize AJ today, 17 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:06.680 but maybe we'll. 18 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:09.400 Criticize somebody else before we're done. We'll see what happens, 19 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:12.760 and maybe we'll get into an addendum to the last show. 20 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:15.159 Because I've got Larry Hancock with me, and I'm glad 21 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:18.959 that I do. I urge you to get the Oswald Puzzle, 22 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:22.480 which is also you know, Larry's co authored that. Okay, 23 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:25.719 David Boylan is on there with him as well, and 24 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:27.959 we did a couple of shows on that book, and 25 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:31.359 who knows, we'll probably do another, but for now, I 26 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:34.760 want to follow up on this Billy Celestie's story. We 27 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:37.560 heard the audio last time. A few people had questions 28 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:39.799 about the audio. Why was it cutting out? It's because 29 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:42.680 it was played through Skype. And that's one of those 30 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:47.840 quirks to Skype. That's technological issue. The actual tape does 31 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:50.879 not have those silent cuts in it, just because some 32 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:53.439 people said it sounded edited because of that. No, no, no, 33 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:57.200 it's just because Steven played it through. Mister Stevens played 34 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:01.319 it through Skype. Okay, Billy Celestie's grandson played it through Skype. 35 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:04.439 And when you just have noise on Skype, sometimes you 36 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:06.359 have a setting on there that cuts down on noise. 37 00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:08.919 That's what happened, so I wanted to clarify that, and 38 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:11.719 who knows, maybe we'll clarify some other stuff. And again 39 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:15.879 Larry Dashhandcock dot com. You can follow his blog, which 40 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:18.800 I do, and take a look at his other works 41 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.240 and all that stuff over at Larry hyphenhandcock or dash 42 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:25.639 handcock dot com spelled just like it sounds, and the 43 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:28.240 Oswald puzzle. Now I'm gonna shut up stop trying to 44 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:31.680 plug things, cause Larry, it's been an interesting a couple 45 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:34.599 of days for you too. So oh, I have to 46 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:39.240 address the Pierce Morgan thing. Yeah, because guys are asking 47 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:41.080 me about that. But before I do, why don't I 48 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:41.960 let you do it? Larry? 49 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:42.719 How you doing tonight? 50 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:45.599 I'm doing fine despite the cold weather. 51 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:48.560 If we survive the next couple of days with these 52 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:52.919 minus twenty degree wind chill factors, you know, next week 53 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:53.960 will be great. 54 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.080 But the moment, we're in survival mode. 55 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:59.120 And I was in survival mode, as we said check 56 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:02.479 earlier this week, I had an opportunity. I was scheduled 57 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:05.240 to be on the Piers Morgan show. Right there was 58 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:09.360 a little confusion about the time. I was expecting the 59 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:11.759 remote unit to be at my house at about four 60 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:14.280 o'clock in the afternoon because they didn't want to take 61 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:16.759 any chances. They wanted to do an actual remote unit, 62 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:21.080 not just zoom and so my wife had a doctor's 63 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.120 appointment in the morning. We're all set to get all 64 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:25.199 of our stuff done and be back in place. And 65 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:27.639 just as we were about to have a quick bite 66 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:29.759 of lunch, I got a phone call that says, well, 67 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:32.560 the remote units at your house and you're not there 68 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:33.439 in the show starting. 69 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:36.199 I'm going whoops, I said, but if you can. 70 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:39.159 Get here quickly, like drive one hundred miles an hour, 71 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:40.479 we can get you in the show. 72 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:42.120 And so I did, and. 73 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:47.520 I did drive radically outrageous speeds, got in, got in 74 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.080 the got in the remote unit, and kind of set 75 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:55.400 there for twenty minutes or so because unfortunately Pierce was 76 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:58.120 not able to fit me in behind the other guests 77 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:00.879 who sort of kept talking regardless of his trying to 78 00:04:00.919 --> 00:04:01.520 introduce me. 79 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:04.599 So it was an exciting first part of the week. 80 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:08.000 And then magically they had to go. And this is 81 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:10.759 what everybody's asking me to comment on. Now, nobody knew 82 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:12.439 that you were supposed to be on the show, because 83 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.479 they did they like promo that you were coming up 84 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:16.680 and then you didn't show up. 85 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:19.600 Or what they did not They did not promo that 86 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:21.399 I was coming up. I was. 87 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:23.920 I think they had a slot for me because in 88 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:27.279 the first you can see introducing and talking about four 89 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:32.040 of the panelist, right, but he only introduced you only 90 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:35.160 saw three people when it got to that, so I 91 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:38.319 was not in the introduction, and then he did. 92 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:41.240 I think it was added in that. You know, he'd 93 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:42.680 also invited. 94 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:48.800 Lee Harvey Oswall's girlfriend Judith, so Judith joined then, but 95 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:50.560 she was not even listed on the pant le either. 96 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:54.319 So so a bunch of surprises there, like where he's 97 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:56.199 popping up people and you were supposed to be one 98 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:57.959 of them, but they never got to you. And even 99 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:00.720 though you're sitting in a remote van near your house 100 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:02.279 or somewhat near your house. 101 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.439 Yeah, out of the it was near the house and 102 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:07.519 before the storm got here, So that was good. 103 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:10.839 It was kind of interesting. Was that was kind of fun. 104 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:13.120 The operator was great, We had a great chat. 105 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:16.240 We actually even had her in after we didn't make 106 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.199 it on the show and had had lunch with her, 107 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:21.480 invited her in. So it was a fun experience. But 108 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.279 I would have kind of liked to be on the show. 109 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:25.720 Look, it would have been better for you to be 110 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:28.360 on TV. But then again, I mean, look, I'm already 111 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:29.160 getting these Can you. 112 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:31.439 Believe Piers Morgan had Judy Baker And I'm like, of 113 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:32.480 course I can believe that. 114 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:35.720 And I told you you don't have to comment on this, Larry, 115 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:39.160 but I told you in confidence. Some staffer turned around 116 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:42.639 and said, Okay, who's big on Facebook? Who's got a book? 117 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:43.560 All right? 118 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:43.720 Now? 119 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:45.800 Who does Simon and Schuster have? And that's how you 120 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:46.319 came up. 121 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:48.879 And then they went to YouTube and said who gets 122 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:52.000 traffic on YouTube? Great, here we go. This is the 123 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:55.439 panel JFK stuff. And they did it probably because there 124 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:57.199 is talk about, you know, is there going to be 125 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.519 a release of documents from the US government? 126 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:02.040 And that was it. That's that was the whole premise 127 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.279 of that set, because it makes no. 128 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:07.680 Sense to invite you and Judy to the same panel, 129 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:10.279 like if you not the subject at all. 130 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:12.680 You could tell that Pierce was kind of working at 131 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:16.399 juggling the people together to get something out of coherent 132 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:19.439 out of you know, this group of people, because they 133 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:21.720 were all in different spaces and you know. 134 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:23.800 I mean, like, look, I am not a fan of 135 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:27.360 Pierce Morgan's but you know, credit where credits d He 136 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:32.040 has a talent which generally speaking, I have a decent 137 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.759 ability to do this. Now, if you have me live 138 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:37.639 on stage, you can't hand me a piece of paper 139 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:40.759 to read from because of my bad eyesight. But I 140 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:45.240 can improvisationally with a couple of facts, create bridges between 141 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:48.920 people introductions, no problem. Even if I have no idea 142 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:51.240 who's about to step on the stage, and you give 143 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.480 me a heads up, like as I'm stepping to the mic, 144 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:55.519 or you give me a couple of ideas about what's happening, 145 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:58.680 I can put it together. And on this show, when 146 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:00.480 I'm behind the mic, it's a lot easier because I 147 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.000 have a computer screen in front of me and I 148 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.319 can work it out real fast. And you don't usually 149 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:07.040 hear me typing folks. But I mean sometimes I can 150 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.480 pick up information even though I didn't have it in 151 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:12.600 advance of the show, and fit it in and make 152 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:14.959 it sound like I knew exactly what was going to 153 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.879 happen next and I had no idea. I've had that 154 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:20.000 happen more than once, where somebody's you know, had somebody 155 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:21.120 else in the room while I. 156 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:22.399 Was interviewing him, et cetera. 157 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:26.879 Some people have the ability to do that, and other 158 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:29.959 people require a script. Pierce Morgan is one of those 159 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:32.480 people who can do it on the fly. He needs 160 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:34.439 his teleprompter, but if you give him new stuff and 161 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:37.120 his teleprompter that he's never seen before. You'll get it done. 162 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:41.439 So that's what he was doing with you, is he had, Okay, 163 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:43.279 give me JFK stuff. Don't worry, I don't even need 164 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:45.639 to read it. And he was making it up as 165 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:47.839 he was going along, and then somebody said in his ear, 166 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:50.519 you have Lee Harvey Oswald's girlfriend on the line, you know, 167 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:53.240 probably because she did her whole I'm in exile, I'm hiding, 168 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:58.800 you know whatever, whatever her routine is lately. And it's 169 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:01.040 funny that you got drawn in to that. And I 170 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:03.560 would have loved to have seen you exposed anywhere. I mean, 171 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:05.160 as I said before, even though I'm not a fan 172 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:08.079 of Alex Jones, at this point, I would have loved 173 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.279 to have seen you on there. And if you do 174 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:12.560 get a chance to go on there, please do. But 175 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.319 the point is that I'd love to see you everywhere. 176 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.279 But the fact that you didn't make it there, I 177 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:20.879 don't know. I can take a positive feeling from that too, 178 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:22.959 because you didn't end up on a weird panel with 179 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:24.959 a guy who couldn't shut up Judy Baker and god 180 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:26.759 knows what else, you know what I. 181 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:29.199 Mean, And I didn't kill myself driving one hundred miles 182 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.519 an hour either, So there's an upside. 183 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:32.720 But another positive. 184 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:35.600 You didn't get injured or caught in a storm or 185 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:38.759 you know, other problems. So look, it's a plus. Okay, 186 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:41.240 you got to take the winds where you can get them. 187 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:43.840 Real easy to show up with me. You just happen 188 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:45.679 to you know, if you can get your skypeworking and 189 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:47.399 your internet's up, you show up with me. 190 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:47.960 It's easy. 191 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:49.720 I don't make you drive one hundred miles an hour 192 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:52.000 or freak out or give you the wrong time. 193 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.120 Usually, you know. 194 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.440 So anyway, Sorry, I'm making jokes because people wanted me 195 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:02.120 to address the Judy Baker thing. I'm not surprised that 196 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:04.559 that Pierce Morgan's staff put together this thing for him 197 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:06.399 and he just went on the fly with it. It's 198 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.720 it's normal. It speaks to his talent, and that's that's 199 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:11.320 what I would expect of Pierce Morgan. 200 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:13.240 Not an informed show. 201 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:16.399 Not you know, like I know exactly what's going on 202 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:19.000 with these guests, and you know I'm gonna ask hard questions. No, 203 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:21.200 none of that. He was just working with what was 204 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:24.960 assembled for him, and unfortunately I would have loved to 205 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.240 have seen just you get the greater exposure. But then again, 206 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:30.320 you know, like I said, sometimes you know I agree 207 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:34.399 with pt Varnum, but other times, you know, not. 208 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:35.799 All publicity is the best. 209 00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:41.639 Anyways, So back to serious work, just real quick again, 210 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:46.639 Billy Celesti's so you've blogged about this. Have you gotten 211 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:50.639 any feedback personally about doing the show with me? Which 212 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:53.679 is a little different obviously again than some of these 213 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:57.440 other shows that this guy did, because even he said 214 00:09:57.480 --> 00:09:59.000 at the end, he was like, Wow, this was weird. 215 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:00.840 I was on with two people who knew, you know. 216 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:01.159 A lot. 217 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:03.919 Even though he thought Alex was rather well read on 218 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:07.919 the subject, he was kind of, you know, felt that 219 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:09.799 this was a different experience to be on with you 220 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:12.720 and me. Did you get any feedback about about the 221 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:14.360 podcast or anything? 222 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:17.679 I did not, And I was kind of surprised that 223 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.480 I did not, although Shane and I have had some 224 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:26.759 additional background exchanges on Billy Saul and I mean, he 225 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.440 knows him his grandfather, but he's not really familiar and 226 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:34.120 and he knows he was a figure in Texas, but 227 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:38.440 he's not familiar with a lot of the timeline, a 228 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:43.240 lot of the details of his activities. So I'm gotten together. 229 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:46.240 I managed to dig through my research notes back when 230 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:48.480 you know, like twenty years ago, when this was a 231 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:51.799 thing and when I was actually in communication with SD's 232 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:54.919 and it's like okay, and so I'm going to copy 233 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.159 some of that and get it off to him. That 234 00:10:57.200 --> 00:11:00.399 will help get him up to speed, because he's he's 235 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:05.200 familiar with his grandfather, and he's certainly familiar with with 236 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:09.480 the general problems his grandfather had and with relationship with 237 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:12.080 Carter and Johnson. But I mean, if you really want 238 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:16.399 to take this further and examine the issues, you know, 239 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:19.679 why why was this recording made when it was made? 240 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:23.440 When the when could the meeting have occurred? That that's 241 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.879 described in there. Plus you have to add in what 242 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:31.200 Billy saw ast he's actually had written in his own book, 243 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:36.399 because he he commented on this subject twice. Well, he 244 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:38.600 commented to me, and I have my notes, but I 245 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:41.759 never wrote anything, but he did. He was interviewed by 246 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:45.879 William Ramonde. We have copies of that interview transcript actually, 247 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:49.039 and Ramon went on to make that into a book 248 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:52.399 and said certain things that Billy Saw had told him. 249 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:56.559 And then when that their agreement kind of came apart, 250 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:00.320 and Estes did his own book. He had at a 251 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:04.159 lot of details in there that he did not share 252 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:08.919 with Ramond, and so there's a real mix of remarks 253 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.559 in his in his own story about what e you 254 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:16.200 win and Shane's going to have to to deal with that. 255 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:19.200 So hopefully I can help him a bit there, because 256 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:21.960 I had to wade through that all myself at one 257 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:23.159 point in time, right. 258 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:25.799 And I found it interesting that, you know, you presented 259 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:29.200 me he reminded me of a book that I couldn't find, 260 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:30.720 but I know I had a copy. I have a 261 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.919 copy of it around here somewhere, but it's probably not 262 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:35.600 at the front of my bookshelf anymore. 263 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:38.639 Right, And it's. 264 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:40.960 Kind of interesting because it was kind of a thing 265 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:45.240 for a minute again, And I wonder if you wouldn't 266 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:47.559 talk about that real fast, because you reminded me of this. 267 00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:49.879 Yeah, here we go. Active Treason is the name of 268 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.120 the book. Yeah, go ahead. 269 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:57.240 It's interesting because you wouldn't Active Treason was about Jay 270 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:01.000 Edgar Hoover, and it was really an expose of Hoover 271 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:04.799 and the illegal things that Hoover did, So you wouldn't 272 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:11.159 really expect to find a detailed study of this of 273 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:14.679 the SDS, of the of the murders and SDS, and 274 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.720 his doings with the Johnson and and the you know, 275 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:20.120 influence peddling. 276 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:21.840 But it's in that book. 277 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:26.759 I suspect because the FBI and the federal government did 278 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:32.039 investigate STS and they investigated the scandals, which means they 279 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:36.759 had to do a lot of digging into his connections 280 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:43.279 to Yarborough, to Freeman, to Johnson to the Democratic National Committee. Well, 281 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.120 I had that was in their investigation, and he just 282 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.320 pulled it out and put it in a book, which 283 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:50.159 is very handy. 284 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.919 Yes, and I hate to cut into where you're talking here, 285 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:55.120 but it does kind of make sense to me that 286 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:57.960 this works out because if you remember a few years ago, 287 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.879 there was a fairly popular series like they called it 288 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.679 a documentary, but it wasn't. It was a compilation and 289 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:08.919 they used footage and they did some creative things with 290 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:12.039 the footage, and then they used all kinds of pieces 291 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:14.360 of documentaries and they cut it all together and they 292 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:15.759 called it Evidence of Revision. 293 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:17.279 You ever see that online somewhere? 294 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:19.039 No, I don't think I have. 295 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.200 Well they have it in six parts now, But initially 296 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:27.440 it was like jfk rfk MK Ultra and like, you know, 297 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:29.600 and then they did a whole like section on Jim Jones. 298 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:31.879 I forget what they called it, but you know, and 299 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:35.559 they did a section on the you know, Kennedy assassination 300 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:39.840 where it was like LBJ and j Edgar Hoover and 301 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:42.159 he was part of the bridge, and they did this 302 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:44.639 sort of series where again they cut stuff together, so 303 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.919 it was like the relationship between LBJ and j Garoover 304 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.840 because you know that was famously they were very friendly. 305 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:55.039 You know, he was adversarial jay Gar Hooober to the Kennedys. 306 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:57.759 But Johnson gets in there, he's his buddy. There were 307 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:02.399 neighbors at one point. All this stuff right, So to 308 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:04.879 me it makes perfect sense. And I remember seeing that 309 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:07.559 years ago and saying that was a good encapsulation of 310 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:10.600 a whole lot of literature that has sort of gone 311 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.519 over this and Active Treason is probably one of the 312 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:17.440 best collections where you could see this like he never 313 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.960 states it out right in there, I think, but it's 314 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:25.000 like it's very obvious that there is a collusion of 315 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:30.080 sorts between the LBJ administration and jed Garhober right. 316 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:34.519 Where jed Garhover is well protected all. 317 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:38.159 The way into the Nixon administration when he finally dies, right, 318 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:42.639 But maybe he wasn't so well protected while Kennedy was 319 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:44.960 in office. And in fact, there was a whole school 320 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:48.639 of thought well before you started writing on this, you know, 321 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.679 through the Torbet document and all that, and I'm sure 322 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:53.039 you went through that stuff at some point, right Larry, 323 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:53.799 I mean. 324 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:55.320 Oh, yes, yes. 325 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.480 Where there was a collusion between you know, maybe the 326 00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:00.799 FBI was involved in the assassination. I don't buy that, 327 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:03.399 you know, were they involved in a cover up? Clearly, obviously, 328 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.240 but so was the whole of the federal government. It 329 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:08.639 seemed like, you know what I mean. But anyway, enough 330 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:11.320 of that. My point is that it does make sense 331 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:16.480 that there is this weird place where law enforcement is 332 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:20.279 swimming with the corrupt elements, and Jay gar Hoover has 333 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:23.879 his own issues, and we know about cointelpro and all 334 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:27.080 kinds of things going on here. Right, There's a lot 335 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:30.639 of stuff happening. And when you look at the Billy 336 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:36.039 Celestie stuff and you understand that that's the FBI, that 337 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:38.759 you know, any of the LBJ stuff could have been 338 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:42.279 happening under what was happening under you know what I mean, 339 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.840 It kind of gives you a different lens. So it 340 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:47.399 makes sense to go to something like this where you 341 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:50.960 have to look at Jay Edgar Hoover to get an idea. Again, 342 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:54.720 just like when we were talking to you know, to Shane, 343 00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:57.399 and it's like, look, you got to understand at the time, 344 00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:59.639 this was business being done. And sure some of it 345 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:01.720 was shape and a lot and some of it was illegal, 346 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:05.440 But is it really that bad compared to a lot 347 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:08.319 of other things we learned about later, not necessarily some 348 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.839 of it you know, it's it's not and you know, 349 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:17.039 and again it's the misconceptions, right, because looking back at 350 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:20.000 something is not the same as understanding the ecosystem in 351 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:24.240 which it occurred. So that was important. Anyway, That's enough 352 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:25.759 out of me. I just wanted to point that out. 353 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:27.400 But I thought it was interesting that you pulled up 354 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.160 this book that I kind of went, oh wow, yeah, 355 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.400 I remember reading that and that was really interesting and useful. 356 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:35.839 But did it make a case, you know, like, oh gee, 357 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:38.839 now I have the uh, you know, the smoking gun 358 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:43.079 in my hand about the assassination. No, you know, active treason. 359 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:44.799 But it's an interesting read if you if you get 360 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:46.640 a chance to pick it up used somewhere or whatever. 361 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:48.480 I would I would not object to it, you know, 362 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:51.559 I wouldn't. I wouldn't be like highly recommending it like 363 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.440 I do your your book on Oswald. But but it 364 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:57.119 is something that I would say, you know what, if 365 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:58.640 you want to take the time to learn about that, 366 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:00.279 please do right. 367 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:02.960 Active Treason is a decent book. Mark North is the. 368 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:05.039 Author so well. 369 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:07.440 I think one of the things that brings out it's 370 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:15.799 interesting because it really does highlight the influence peddling. I 371 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:18.839 guess you would say, I mean, we haven't seen that 372 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.720 with every administration. We didn't really even see it with 373 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:29.880 the Kennedy administration at JFK's level. But with that Democratic administration, 374 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:35.119 there was just just as one little slice here of 375 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:39.000 how much influence peddling Johnson was doing. Of course, that's 376 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:43.240 what Johnson was famous for. But I think Shane was 377 00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:48.440 perhaps surprised that, you know, he was wondering if his 378 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:54.039 grandfather was as well positioned influential, if he had done 379 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:57.200 all the things he claimed he'd done and in truth. 380 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:04.279 By nineteen fifty eight, Billy saul ESTs was so entrenched 381 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:08.400 with Ralph Yarborough that Yarborough was on record saying that 382 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.400 he was actually asked to participate in a drive to 383 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:17.000 run SD's for Texas governor, which might surprise a lot 384 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.720 of people. It also documents the extent to which Johnson 385 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:26.720 had essentially co opted the Agriculture Department and made the 386 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:31.759 AGG Department available as a tool, and he was kind 387 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.640 of farming out the AGG Department and Freeman. You know 388 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.759 that there were people going along with this, bending. 389 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:39.559 The rules a little bit. 390 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:47.279 Henry Marshall, who got killed in the scandal, had approved 391 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:53.279 some one hundred and thirty eight leases for SDS and 392 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:56.559 there were lots of challenges to the leases at leases. 393 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:01.960 Actually Yarborough had to go to Washington, d c. 394 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:07.960 To testify for certain panels on ST's account, and so 395 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.799 did Johnson. Johnson row that there were lots of controversies 396 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:17.119 about these leases behind the scenes, and Marshall was whether 397 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:18.920 he thought he was doing the right thing where there 398 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:23.440 was walking the fence whatever. Marshall was quite aware that 399 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.519 there were challenges and issues with a lot of these leases. 400 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:33.279 But up until i mean through the Kennedy inauguration, you know, 401 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:37.400