WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:07.839 With Laurent segle And from London and Gerard Reed from Berlin. 2 00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:11.000 This is redefining energy Today. 3 00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:13.199 On redefining energy, we're going to talk about Win. 4 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:16.719 Laurent, Yes, yeah, because we took a lot about sach 5 00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:19.879 and let's not forget that your hope all the North 6 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:24.480 is mostly powered by wind because unfortunately we have say 7 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:28.320 one thousand five dollars of a sun per year. So 8 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:30.640 who's going to pick up the tab for the rest? 9 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:31.519 Win is there? 10 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:33.600 But first of all, from my partner. 11 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:37.159 A Bloco Energy is Europe's premier leaser of ten foot 12 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:42.240 container mobile batteries built in Europe with COTL best LFP cells. 13 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:48.119 A Bloco Energy serves fourteen European countries, including France, Germany 14 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:51.359 and the UK. A Bloco's batteries can be leased for 15 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:54.600 any duration between six weeks and six years and they 16 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:58.479 are monitored by the Dutch award winning platform school a 17 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:02.560 Blocko Energy. Make life easier, make your business more flexible. 18 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:03.520 Back to the show. 19 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:07.799 Yeah, and also be clear is that wind is real 20 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:11.239 low cost and as I said, northern Europe the same. 21 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.439 You're definitely right. But also if you go to the 22 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:15.599 Midwest and the US, I mean, you won't get any 23 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:19.000 cheaper form of power than than wind. So no, no, no, 24 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:21.719 wind is a critical part of the system and we 25 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:24.640 need to revisit and see what's going on in the industry. 26 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:28.519 And again it's very important to understand that now with 27 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:33.640 the biggerto binds, whether they're onshore, now they reach six 28 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:37.200 mega what each and if you look offshore and now 29 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:41.200 they reach twenty megia wa each, we are reaching load 30 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:46.959 factors into forty and of course with the weather prediction 31 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:52.239 getting better and better, we really have a resource that's there, 32 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.319 that's powerful and that's predictable. So we need power, we 33 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:58.519 need wind absolutely wrong. 34 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:01.319 What we decided to do really was bringing on the 35 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:04.239 new CEO of WIN Europe, which is sort of the 36 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:08.159 voice for the wind industry across Europe, Tina vander Stratten, 37 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:12.000 and she was formerly the energy minister in Belgium in 38 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:16.240 twenty twenty two during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You know, 39 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:19.120 I always think it's good to actually have ex politicians 40 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:21.879 or politicians on. They have a different view of the 41 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:24.039 world and a different way of seeing it than we do. 42 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.479 A wrong because we really are sort of finance people. 43 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:29.960 We think about things in terms of numbers, right. 44 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:34.639 Yeah, Antine has the big picture of you, as you said, 45 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:39.560 political angirl but also energy situaty youngirls. Let's welcome Tina 46 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:47.199 on the show. 47 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:51.960 Tina, great to have you on the show. 48 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:53.960 Thanks for coming on board, Thanks for having me. 49 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:58.280 Tina. You're not CEEO when you're but before that you 50 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:02.120 were the Minister of Energy have Belgium for five years 51 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.840 and well now in an energy shock with Almoos and 52 00:03:06.199 --> 00:03:09.479 the Gulf. But you were at the Helm when the 53 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.599 Ukraine crisis arrived. So I would say this is not 54 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.400 your first audio. Can you explain a bit what it 55 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:19.159 was being inside the two twenty two Russia and Algae shock. 56 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.800 It was hell of waking up with a full scale 57 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:26.599 invasion of Russia in Ukraine. It was a real wake 58 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.759 up call that we can be so vulnerable. And I've 59 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:32.639 seen a first cent and I was, as you say, 60 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:35.879 at the Helm to see how energy moved. From a 61 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:39.759 very technical department, do we have enough energy at any 62 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:42.680 point in time? Do we have enough electricity at any 63 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:46.599 point in time? To very strategic departments? Where do we buy? 64 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:50.319 How do we buy? How do we diversify? How can 65 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.840 we be more secure? The twenty twenty two crisis was 66 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.520 responsible for having a very huge legislative framework on fast 67 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:01.400 tracking renewables, fast tracking permitting to deep our Europe. And 68 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.360 now four years later, it's like I've been it before, 69 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:08.080 So it's a deja vu moment. Maybe it's also a 70 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:10.520 touch point to say, are we now in a better 71 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.479 place or not? And I think the answer is both. 72 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:18.079 We are not enough progress as we should have been 73 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:20.560 after the twenty twenty two crisis, and there was a 74 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:23.360 lot of talking, a lot of goals that we put forward, 75 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:27.199 specifically with regards to the deployment of renewables. But we 76 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:30.839 also need to realize today that on the ground, the 77 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.959 deployment of renewables has not progressed as fast as it 78 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:38.000 should have been. So we do not come from the 79 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:40.879 same situation as we were in twenty twenty two. We 80 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:45.199 have seen progress, but the wake up call is yet there. Again. 81 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:49.759 We are very, very vulnerable if we rely on the 82 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:53.759 import of fossil fuels, if we rely on energy that 83 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.199 we do not control ourselves. And specifically, when we now 84 00:04:57.319 --> 00:04:59.879 look to the situation in the Middle East, it's not 85 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.639 our war, it's not a war of Europe, but we 86 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:07.120 are confronted with the consequences and if we want to 87 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.120 be more resilient, if we want to be more secure, 88 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:14.279 then we have to take back control of our energy supply. 89 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.399 And the only way forward, the only future proof strategy 90 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:20.759 for Europe is homegrown electricity, because this is something that 91 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:23.439 we can do. We have our sea basins, we have 92 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:26.560 also a lot of land on which we can build renewables, 93 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.519 so we can provide abundant, clean electricity for our citizens, 94 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:33.759 for our industries, for our companies, and so there is 95 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:37.399 no upside in slow walking renewables that we should be 96 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:41.519 really confident that we can now also use this crisis. 97 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:44.959 Take this crisis as yet again wake up a moment, 98 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.759 but also a moment to say, let's meet this moment, 99 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:53.240 let's move forward, and let's really now focus on deployment 100 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:57.160 of renewables and also increase the use of electricity so 101 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.759 that we can be more resilient in the future. 102 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:02.399 So, Tina, from me, it's really interesting to actually have 103 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:05.240 a formal politician. And the reason is I think myself 104 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:07.120 and darn really we come from the finance worlds. We 105 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:11.160 look at everything really economically right, and we share totally 106 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.920 your vision that what we need to do is electrify energy, 107 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:17.920 the whole energy system across Europe. And we also think 108 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:20.480 it's if we look back, you had in the seventies, 109 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:22.519 you had two oil crisis. First ail Chris brit of 110 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:24.959 a shock. The second one was when everything changed and 111 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:28.319 you saw radical change. Obviously, for example in France in 112 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.959 terms of the huge build out of nuclear they did. 113 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:33.680 The UK obviously started drilling in the North seas, so 114 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:36.079 you had huge change. So we look at this opportunity 115 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.759 now and we say huge changes needed. But for certainly 116 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:42.199 from my perspective, this huge regulatory change that's needed because 117 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:45.160 the reality is why are we going to electrify our 118 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:48.240 energy system when electricity is so expensive? So I'd be 119 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:51.240 really interested to hear where that you feel that there 120 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:56.240 is the political appetite to actually really make change happen. 121 00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:00.600 There in this crisis, there was pulling being the on 122 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:03.480 citizens support the energy transition, and the result of this 123 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:07.720 balling was yes, citizens want this energy transition now to happen, 124 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:11.839 and that is the basis of political appetite to move forward. 125 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:16.040 I do believe we need more both politicians that they 126 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:18.879 let's move forward because we need to be in a 127 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:23.399 better place tomorrow. Let's also acknowledge that the energy field 128 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:26.600 is not an easy one for policy makers because you 129 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:29.920 have to take decisions now for projects that are very 130 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:34.120 intensive in kapics that need several years sometimes, for example 131 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:38.120 with Regardo Offerin to be realized. So you say, you 132 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:41.519 have one mandate to write rules and then one mandate 133 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.839 to build. So an energy politician, an energy policy make, 134 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:48.519 an energy minister, or an energy commissioner is taking decisions, 135 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:50.959 but he will not or she will not see the 136 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:54.959 results immediately, and that is for a politician, not something 137 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:58.439 that is easy in itself. What does that mean is 138 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.920 that you need to have clear vision, not just projections, 139 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:04.759 not just targets, but a vision on where are we 140 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:08.199 in the midterm and on the long term, and then 141 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:12.319 implement policies that go towards that direction. I do not 142 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:14.399 have an issue with baby steps as long as you 143 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.759 said many, many, many in the same direction. And that 144 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:21.959 is something that is very specific to an energy policy maker. 145 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:25.480 You are always challenged to address a crisis in the 146 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:28.040 short term, but you need to work on measures that 147 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:30.680 are more in the long run. It's also interesting to 148 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.240 me to talk to you coming from a financial world, 149 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:36.240 because it also points to a dilemma that I often 150 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:40.679 had is if you do big energy projects, intensive kypics 151 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:44.200 that take multiple years to realize, everyone comes to see 152 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:47.399 you and asks you as an energy policy maker to 153 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:52.039 d risk to have legislation that is stable. It gives 154 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:55.159 regulatory stability so that people can go talk to their 155 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:57.679 banks to have the money to get that project financed. 156 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:00.840 I sometimes felt frustrated that that they always came to 157 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:04.919 the energy department to ask for the risking for everything. 158 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:07.960 So in this crisis that we are now and then 159 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:09.960 the leap forward that we need to take, and I 160 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:13.919 agree with your view, maybe it's this second crisis now 161 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:16.919 that will radically change. We also need to come together 162 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.200 from multiple perspectives, and we need to talk more also 163 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.000 to each other, finance world, the offtaker world, also the 164 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:27.960 generator site, to see how can we come together and 165 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:32.919 work together to achieve this common goal, a future proof 166 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:36.799 energy strategy, more homegrown electricity. How can we achieve this together? 167 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:39.600 Can I just maybe before we move away from the 168 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.679 political situation. It's also intriguing me to look at one 169 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:46.159 of the things that's really interesting about Europe and complex 170 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:49.320 is that obviously each country has our own interest at heart. 171 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:53.480 And what I see a present across Europe is you've 172 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:56.039 got a country like France which has a view in 173 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:58.919 terms of the future is nuclear. You've got a German 174 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:02.080 view which view to be it's all about renewables to 175 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:04.960 actually we need gas again, and then you've got Eastern 176 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:07.720 Europe would have a different perspective. So everybody has these 177 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:11.200 different perspectives. How do you think we sort of move 178 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.480 forward with regards bringing all this together? 179 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:19.039 First a line on the general consensus based in facts 180 00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:22.960 that an energy system driven by renewables is the cheapest one, 181 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:26.600 including also GRET investments. And the reason is simple because 182 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:29.360 you don't have a fuel cost. So if you reduce 183 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.639 the fuel costs that comes from imported fuels, then you 184 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:36.799 will have a radically more cheaper system. We should align 185 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:41.240 at European level and we should embrace the fact that 186 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.440 the national energy mix is something that is national. We 187 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:46.919 should not fight it. And I give you a very 188 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:51.840 specific example. If Belgium would interconnect to Norway, would be 189 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.840 very interesting for both Norway and for Belgium because the 190 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:57.440 wind zones are not correlated, so that means that we 191 00:10:57.480 --> 00:11:00.399 can help each other with clean electricity yet at any 192 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:03.000 point in time because our wind zones are not correlated. 193 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:06.360 But Belgium is usually connected to France, and Norway has 194 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:10.000 an issue in summer with low water in their hydrocapacity, 195 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:13.279 well they can tap into the nuclear capacity that comes 196 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:15.679 from France. So at one point in time we also 197 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.799 need to accept that, yes we have different choices and 198 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:23.279 different focus points, but this cannot divert our focus that 199 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:27.039 it should be driven by renewables. I've been in so 200 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:30.639 many energy councils when there was a real fight about 201 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:34.120 which is the preferred technology, and people fighting each other 202 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:38.120 on national choices on energy mixes. But really this is 203 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:41.919 water under the bridge because every MEMBA set can decide 204 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:45.600 its own energy mix. But we have targets with regard 205 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:48.440 to climate, with targets with regard to renewable energy. So 206 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:52.039 let's focus on that. Build a system that is based 207 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.279 on renewables. It will be the cheapest, it will save 208 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.120 European economy and society as a whole a lot of money, 209 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:02.200 and just don't fight on specific choice in specific member states. 210 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.240 So Tina, now you're the head of when you're up, 211 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:08.039 and of course we like wind a lot can you 212 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:11.639 explain a bit the situation of the wind industry right now, 213 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:14.240 because if I look the past two years un Tour 214 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:16.679 twenty five, there was a wind root because there's a 215 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.200 lot of stories around the supply chain. So the vision 216 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:23.240 is that from the outside that we have is that yeah, 217 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:26.159 solar is going youang buster, but whin it's kind of 218 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.279 struggling or maybe it's at a costcold. So explain a 219 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:33.639 bit what's the situation of the industry right now. 220 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.039 First, I'd like to say that we are absolutely stepping 221 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.039 up the task. If we are looking back at twenty 222 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.480 twenty five, what happened last year. We saw in twenty 223 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:47.480 twenty five an increase of wind capacity. Wind is now 224 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:51.720 twenty percent of all electricity consumed in Europe. But the 225 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:55.000 most important number that I wanted to cite here is 226 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:58.360 the billions that we have invested in twenty twenty five. 227 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:02.639 If it's forty five billion in final investment decisions so 228 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:06.080 euros for projects that are final and that we will 229 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.799 be built the coming years, that means there is confidence 230 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:14.759 from the industry that indeed they can take these decisions, 231 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:17.600 that there is confidence in the regulatory frameworks that this 232 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:20.799 project that can be built. It also points to the 233 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:24.639 fact that it's a scalable industry. Germany, for example, is 234 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:27.480 one third of all installations because they had this fast 235 00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:31.120 permitting that they worked so beautifully. In Germany, they implemented 236 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.440 overriding public interest and we saw the industry followed. Also 237 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:36.720 in the years to come, one third of the installations 238 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:40.240 on shore wind installations will be built in Germany. So 239 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:42.720 we are generally up to the task. We have the 240 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:46.200 technology for onshore winds, for offshore wind We see more 241 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.399 and more auctions coming. There is consensus that we can 242 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:53.240 work with CfDS. We have a market design that is 243 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:57.000 working that gives also this price signal. And these forty 244 00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:00.919 five billions are invested. Why because there is regulary stability, 245 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:04.039 so they can easily go away. If we are now 246 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:07.519 back peddling on existing rules that exist. We need a 247 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.360 second leap. We need to move from crisis to confidence, 248 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:14.480 and we can not do so if there is regulatory 249 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:19.120 instability to come, if existing rules based on which investment 250 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:24.879 decisions are taken, if they are continuously put into question. Yes, 251 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:26.799 we are up to the task and the state of 252 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:30.440 the industry is rather good. We have our challenges we'll 253 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.480 see more projects coming. If there is a more predictable 254 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:37.320 project pipeline, you'll also see that costs will come down. 255 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:40.639 We see a challenge in moving these competitive wind energy. 256 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:42.720 To pass this through to off takers and we s 257 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:46.120 is particularly a challenge with regard to electrification. We need 258 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:49.639 to consume more electricity. We need to electrify transport, we 259 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:53.679 need to electrify housing. We need to electrify industrial processes 260 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:57.639 for which it's already possible to electrify today, for example, 261 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:01.159 medium and low temperature heat processes. If we meet this 262 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.919 challenge one at a time and are able to address 263 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:06.279 this once, then we will see a further increase of 264 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:07.639 wind in the years to come. 265 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:10.960 Maybe we just dive a little bit more into the numbers, 266 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:12.879 because if I look at the numbers for twenty twenty five, 267 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:15.159 if I just look at onshore wind, it looks like 268 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.759 you're certainly at a ten year record in terms of installations. 269 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:20.799 I must have been. I'm a little bit surprised. And 270 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:22.720 the reason I'm a little bit of surprise is because 271 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.679 does you generally feel that there's resistant to these larger turbines. 272 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:30.080 Explain a little bit where that numbers come from on 273 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:31.000 shore windy. 274 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:33.840 Is just a very cost competitive technology. On Shore windys 275 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.919 and ninety percent of all the installations that we have today, 276 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:39.600 and even if they're SketchUp by offshore winds, the ratio 277 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:41.600 will remain more or less the same. It will be 278 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.159 eighty percent of onshore and twenty percent of offshore. There 279 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.480 is resistance to these higher turbines, but this is resistance 280 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.200 that we need to overcome, and we need to build 281 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:56.039 confidence that energy transition is supported by citizens. Because if 282 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:59.879 we reap ower existing on shore windy installations, we can 283 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.440 reduce the number of turbines, we can double the capacity, 284 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.840 but more importantly, we can triple the generation. Let's look 285 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:11.399 at Italy. Italy has thirteen gigawatts of onshore wind installations. 286 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:14.919 Six gigawatts will be having a lifetime of twenty years 287 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.879 between now and five years. So if we focus on 288 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.679 these six gigawatt of projects, if you can decrease the 289 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:25.480 number of turbines, double the capacity and triple the generation, 290 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:29.919 the Italian energy system will be in a far better place. 291 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:33.240 Italy is so gass dependent today and we see this 292 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.480 is in an electricity prices in Italy today and the 293 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:40.960 only go to way for Italy is to increase renewable 294 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.639 electricity in the energy mix, and they can easily do 295 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.759 so if they have a dedicated approach to repowering. What 296 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:51.399 does it look like a dedicated approaches specifically with regard 297 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.639 to permitting. These are existing projects That means they are 298 00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:57.240 already in a place where there has been looked at 299 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:00.799 environment for example, how close they are to where people 300 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.279 lives and for ands. For of course we will be 301 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:07.480 adding capacity, but let's then do environmental permit for the 302 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.759 capacity that you add, and not treaties as completely new 303 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:16.680 green field projects. Onshore wind is a beautiful technology and 304 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:19.880 it's often underestimated what can be done with it. 305 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:22.200 And you know, by the way, I be one hundred 306 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:25.000 percent in agreement, which in terms of onshore wind, I 307 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:27.079 also would share the vision actually that what we need 308 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:29.480 to do is repower all these old turbines et cetera, 309 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:31.720 et cetera. And if let's take the case of early 310 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:35.319 movers like Spain, Germany, Ireland, you say, okay, you take 311 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.920 all these onshore turbines and you upgrade them, and then 312 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:41.200 a sort of begs the crystom do we need offshore 313 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:42.839 wind at all we do. 314 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.480 Spain is a beautiful example what can be done with 315 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:50.720 onshore wind. They basically repower their whole system. But Spain 316 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:53.799 with regard to offshore winds may be more difficult situation 317 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.200 off sure wind, it's very deep waters in the Mediterranean, 318 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:02.160 so that's a beautiful case for floating. Floating very expensive today, 319 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:05.680 but it's an innovation field. So we do hope that 320 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:09.279 we see the first offshore wind auction in Spain soon, 321 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.759 but that will not be from the beginning of very 322 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:16.359 big projects. But in the North Sea, for example, of 323 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:19.519 your wind is very easy, very easy, is maybe a 324 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:24.000 little bit too strong, but it's no regrets, it's an 325 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:27.839 absolute can do. You can build the interconnections, you can 326 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.119 interconnect it. You can do this in a hybrid way. 327 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.079 You can interconnect so different countries with each other. There 328 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:35.920 is already a lot of offshore winds the North Sea, 329 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:39.279 but also the Baltic Sea really can be the power 330 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:43.640 engines of the North Sea has a very large energy 331 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:47.799 intensive countries like Germany, like Belgium for example, so it's 332 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.359 beautiful add on to the energy system. Specifically, if you 333 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:54.720 have your mesh grits, if you interconnect more. Let's look 334 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.039 at Poland for example, it's very ambitious with regard to 335 00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:00.759 off sure wind. Poland will be across a Baltic Sea, 336 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.400 an emerging leader. They have done their first auctions that 337 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:07.559 are building today offshore wind and we also see in 338 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.079 our outlook it's the third market. You have UK, you 339 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.920 have Germany and then you have Poland. They have seen 340 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:16.400 in the northern part of Poland a lot of investments 341 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:19.920 in supply chain. They show in reality and if you 342 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.759 do an auction with a CFD, the project is being 343 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.519 built that the supply chain follows and it's creating a 344 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.799 lot of jobs. But Poland with regard to onshore winds, 345 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:33.720 they have basically no installations also because of a distance rule. 346 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.720 That's something that really I cannot understand. In a country 347 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:39.480 like Belgium, which is so densely populated, we do have 348 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:42.440 onshore wind. So if Belgium can build onshore wind, then 349 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:46.680 then certainly Poland can do it. So it's also important 350 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:50.319 for policy makers that they do and efforts, consistent efforts 351 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:53.920 to have both technologies, both onshore and both offshore, that 352 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:58.519 they develop ways to have them both in their countries, we. 353 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:01.400 Follow absolutely what you say. But at the same time 354 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:04.240 you have country like Sweden who I've decided to cancel 355 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:06.599 all of the off shot wind and I can tell 356 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:10.799 you why. I mean, it's the nuclear looby. Period is nuclearloby. 357 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.240 They say off shore wind is too expensive, so let's 358 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.359 go nuclear, and two months later they say, oh, can 359 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:20.160 we have a lot of subsidies for nuclear. Those people 360 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:22.400 you can't say it. I can't say it. They are 361 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.559 nefarious because you can have both. And the same speech 362 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:30.759 have been used in the US to block off short 363 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:34.440 wind in the northeast and in Sweden. So I'm sorry 364 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:38.359 to say Swedish. I love Sweden, but here this is 365 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:43.880 a massive, massive stupid move. It's ideology. And when you 366 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:47.920 have ideology, ideology is expensive. You don't want to show wind. Okay, 367 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:50.400 people are gonna pay if you don't develop off shot 368 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.400 win in Sweden. Okay, sorry, that's. 369 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.640 My Errand it's set if ideology comes away. And it's 370 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.599 really something that we should be very conscious about. What 371 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:03.599 do we need as Europe today? As Europe, we need 372 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.279 Europe to be a place to invest. Why because people 373 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:11.640 need jobs, people need to pay their rents and so on. 374 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:16.720 So we can beautifully combine the needs for having access 375 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:21.000 to homegrown electricity with Europe being a place to invest. 376 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:25.319 So this is not about ideology. It's about feeling safe 377 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.880 not to worry where electricity is coming from, because we 378 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:32.759 build it ourselves, we control it ourselves, not be worrying 379 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:36.039 about the price because we are dependent on someone else, 380 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:38.680 and we know if our system brands on our newals, 381 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.240 it will be the cheapest one. We should really also 382 00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:45.799 call it as it is that there are people that 383 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:51.319 make this about ideology, and when making this about ideology, 384 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:56.200 it will also hurt us as a wind industry because 385 00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:58.079 basically we have to put the money on the table 386 00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:00.359 to build this project. Forty five billion twenty two twenty 387 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.319 five were put on the table. We cannot afford this 388 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.519 if it's purely about ideology. We are an industry. We 389 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:10.440 are not a political party. We are not a lobby group, 390 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.880 We are not an NGO. We are people that decided 391 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:20.279 that our business is wins and we put the money 392 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:23.559 next to it. So give us stability and give us 393 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:29.319 decisions that are grounds in facts and not on mere beliefs. 394 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.960 Well, Tina, thank you so much for this message of 395 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.920 resilience and fight because. 396 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:36.680 We need to fight solutely. 397 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.759 But also I like your positive vision and how wind 398 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:46.559 integrates with grids. We need more interconnection, we need more collaboration, 399 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:50.759 and you know that we are working on this crazy 400 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:54.960 but doable project of building an interconnector across the advantage 401 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.039