Speaker 1: With Laurent segle And from London and Gerard Reed from Berlin.
Speaker 1: This is redefining energy Today.
Speaker 2: On redefining energy, we're going to talk about Win.
Speaker 3: Laurent, Yes, yeah, because we took a lot about sach
Speaker 3: and let's not forget that your hope all the North
Speaker 3: is mostly powered by wind because unfortunately we have say
Speaker 3: one thousand five dollars of a sun per year. So
Speaker 3: who's going to pick up the tab for the rest?
Speaker 2: Win is there?
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Speaker 3: Back to the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also be clear is that wind is real
Speaker 2: low cost and as I said, northern Europe the same.
Speaker 2: You're definitely right. But also if you go to the
Speaker 2: Midwest and the US, I mean, you won't get any
Speaker 2: cheaper form of power than than wind. So no, no, no,
Speaker 2: wind is a critical part of the system and we
Speaker 2: need to revisit and see what's going on in the industry.
Speaker 3: And again it's very important to understand that now with
Speaker 3: the biggerto binds, whether they're onshore, now they reach six
Speaker 3: mega what each and if you look offshore and now
Speaker 3: they reach twenty megia wa each, we are reaching load
Speaker 3: factors into forty and of course with the weather prediction
Speaker 3: getting better and better, we really have a resource that's there,
Speaker 3: that's powerful and that's predictable. So we need power, we
Speaker 3: need wind absolutely wrong.
Speaker 2: What we decided to do really was bringing on the
Speaker 2: new CEO of WIN Europe, which is sort of the
Speaker 2: voice for the wind industry across Europe, Tina vander Stratten,
Speaker 2: and she was formerly the energy minister in Belgium in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You know,
Speaker 2: I always think it's good to actually have ex politicians
Speaker 2: or politicians on. They have a different view of the
Speaker 2: world and a different way of seeing it than we do.
Speaker 2: A wrong because we really are sort of finance people.
Speaker 2: We think about things in terms of numbers, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Antine has the big picture of you, as you said,
Speaker 3: political angirl but also energy situaty youngirls. Let's welcome Tina
Speaker 3: on the show.
Speaker 2: Tina, great to have you on the show.
Speaker 4: Thanks for coming on board, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Tina. You're not CEEO when you're but before that you
Speaker 3: were the Minister of Energy have Belgium for five years
Speaker 3: and well now in an energy shock with Almoos and
Speaker 3: the Gulf. But you were at the Helm when the
Speaker 3: Ukraine crisis arrived. So I would say this is not
Speaker 3: your first audio. Can you explain a bit what it
Speaker 3: was being inside the two twenty two Russia and Algae shock.
Speaker 4: It was hell of waking up with a full scale
Speaker 4: invasion of Russia in Ukraine. It was a real wake
Speaker 4: up call that we can be so vulnerable. And I've
Speaker 4: seen a first cent and I was, as you say,
Speaker 4: at the Helm to see how energy moved. From a
Speaker 4: very technical department, do we have enough energy at any
Speaker 4: point in time? Do we have enough electricity at any
Speaker 4: point in time? To very strategic departments? Where do we buy?
Speaker 4: How do we buy? How do we diversify? How can
Speaker 4: we be more secure? The twenty twenty two crisis was
Speaker 4: responsible for having a very huge legislative framework on fast
Speaker 4: tracking renewables, fast tracking permitting to deep our Europe. And
Speaker 4: now four years later, it's like I've been it before,
Speaker 4: So it's a deja vu moment. Maybe it's also a
Speaker 4: touch point to say, are we now in a better
Speaker 4: place or not? And I think the answer is both.
Speaker 4: We are not enough progress as we should have been
Speaker 4: after the twenty twenty two crisis, and there was a
Speaker 4: lot of talking, a lot of goals that we put forward,
Speaker 4: specifically with regards to the deployment of renewables. But we
Speaker 4: also need to realize today that on the ground, the
Speaker 4: deployment of renewables has not progressed as fast as it
Speaker 4: should have been. So we do not come from the
Speaker 4: same situation as we were in twenty twenty two. We
Speaker 4: have seen progress, but the wake up call is yet there. Again.
Speaker 4: We are very, very vulnerable if we rely on the
Speaker 4: import of fossil fuels, if we rely on energy that
Speaker 4: we do not control ourselves. And specifically, when we now
Speaker 4: look to the situation in the Middle East, it's not
Speaker 4: our war, it's not a war of Europe, but we
Speaker 4: are confronted with the consequences and if we want to
Speaker 4: be more resilient, if we want to be more secure,
Speaker 4: then we have to take back control of our energy supply.
Speaker 4: And the only way forward, the only future proof strategy
Speaker 4: for Europe is homegrown electricity, because this is something that
Speaker 4: we can do. We have our sea basins, we have
Speaker 4: also a lot of land on which we can build renewables,
Speaker 4: so we can provide abundant, clean electricity for our citizens,
Speaker 4: for our industries, for our companies, and so there is
Speaker 4: no upside in slow walking renewables that we should be
Speaker 4: really confident that we can now also use this crisis.
Speaker 4: Take this crisis as yet again wake up a moment,
Speaker 4: but also a moment to say, let's meet this moment,
Speaker 4: let's move forward, and let's really now focus on deployment
Speaker 4: of renewables and also increase the use of electricity so
Speaker 4: that we can be more resilient in the future.
Speaker 2: So, Tina, from me, it's really interesting to actually have
Speaker 2: a formal politician. And the reason is I think myself
Speaker 2: and darn really we come from the finance worlds. We
Speaker 2: look at everything really economically right, and we share totally
Speaker 2: your vision that what we need to do is electrify energy,
Speaker 2: the whole energy system across Europe. And we also think
Speaker 2: it's if we look back, you had in the seventies,
Speaker 2: you had two oil crisis. First ail Chris brit of
Speaker 2: a shock. The second one was when everything changed and
Speaker 2: you saw radical change. Obviously, for example in France in
Speaker 2: terms of the huge build out of nuclear they did.
Speaker 2: The UK obviously started drilling in the North seas, so
Speaker 2: you had huge change. So we look at this opportunity
Speaker 2: now and we say huge changes needed. But for certainly
Speaker 2: from my perspective, this huge regulatory change that's needed because
Speaker 2: the reality is why are we going to electrify our
Speaker 2: energy system when electricity is so expensive? So I'd be
Speaker 2: really interested to hear where that you feel that there
Speaker 2: is the political appetite to actually really make change happen.
Speaker 4: There in this crisis, there was pulling being the on
Speaker 4: citizens support the energy transition, and the result of this
Speaker 4: balling was yes, citizens want this energy transition now to happen,
Speaker 4: and that is the basis of political appetite to move forward.
Speaker 4: I do believe we need more both politicians that they
Speaker 4: let's move forward because we need to be in a
Speaker 4: better place tomorrow. Let's also acknowledge that the energy field
Speaker 4: is not an easy one for policy makers because you
Speaker 4: have to take decisions now for projects that are very
Speaker 4: intensive in kapics that need several years sometimes, for example
Speaker 4: with Regardo Offerin to be realized. So you say, you
Speaker 4: have one mandate to write rules and then one mandate
Speaker 4: to build. So an energy politician, an energy policy make,
Speaker 4: an energy minister, or an energy commissioner is taking decisions,
Speaker 4: but he will not or she will not see the
Speaker 4: results immediately, and that is for a politician, not something
Speaker 4: that is easy in itself. What does that mean is
Speaker 4: that you need to have clear vision, not just projections,
Speaker 4: not just targets, but a vision on where are we
Speaker 4: in the midterm and on the long term, and then
Speaker 4: implement policies that go towards that direction. I do not
Speaker 4: have an issue with baby steps as long as you
Speaker 4: said many, many, many in the same direction. And that
Speaker 4: is something that is very specific to an energy policy maker.
Speaker 4: You are always challenged to address a crisis in the
Speaker 4: short term, but you need to work on measures that
Speaker 4: are more in the long run. It's also interesting to
Speaker 4: me to talk to you coming from a financial world,
Speaker 4: because it also points to a dilemma that I often
Speaker 4: had is if you do big energy projects, intensive kypics
Speaker 4: that take multiple years to realize, everyone comes to see
Speaker 4: you and asks you as an energy policy maker to
Speaker 4: d risk to have legislation that is stable. It gives
Speaker 4: regulatory stability so that people can go talk to their
Speaker 4: banks to have the money to get that project financed.
Speaker 4: I sometimes felt frustrated that that they always came to
Speaker 4: the energy department to ask for the risking for everything.
Speaker 4: So in this crisis that we are now and then
Speaker 4: the leap forward that we need to take, and I
Speaker 4: agree with your view, maybe it's this second crisis now
Speaker 4: that will radically change. We also need to come together
Speaker 4: from multiple perspectives, and we need to talk more also
Speaker 4: to each other, finance world, the offtaker world, also the
Speaker 4: generator site, to see how can we come together and
Speaker 4: work together to achieve this common goal, a future proof
Speaker 4: energy strategy, more homegrown electricity. How can we achieve this together?
Speaker 2: Can I just maybe before we move away from the
Speaker 2: political situation. It's also intriguing me to look at one
Speaker 2: of the things that's really interesting about Europe and complex
Speaker 2: is that obviously each country has our own interest at heart.
Speaker 2: And what I see a present across Europe is you've
Speaker 2: got a country like France which has a view in
Speaker 2: terms of the future is nuclear. You've got a German
Speaker 2: view which view to be it's all about renewables to
Speaker 2: actually we need gas again, and then you've got Eastern
Speaker 2: Europe would have a different perspective. So everybody has these
Speaker 2: different perspectives. How do you think we sort of move
Speaker 2: forward with regards bringing all this together?
Speaker 4: First a line on the general consensus based in facts
Speaker 4: that an energy system driven by renewables is the cheapest one,
Speaker 4: including also GRET investments. And the reason is simple because
Speaker 4: you don't have a fuel cost. So if you reduce
Speaker 4: the fuel costs that comes from imported fuels, then you
Speaker 4: will have a radically more cheaper system. We should align
Speaker 4: at European level and we should embrace the fact that
Speaker 4: the national energy mix is something that is national. We
Speaker 4: should not fight it. And I give you a very
Speaker 4: specific example. If Belgium would interconnect to Norway, would be
Speaker 4: very interesting for both Norway and for Belgium because the
Speaker 4: wind zones are not correlated, so that means that we
Speaker 4: can help each other with clean electricity yet at any
Speaker 4: point in time because our wind zones are not correlated.
Speaker 4: But Belgium is usually connected to France, and Norway has
Speaker 4: an issue in summer with low water in their hydrocapacity,
Speaker 4: well they can tap into the nuclear capacity that comes
Speaker 4: from France. So at one point in time we also
Speaker 4: need to accept that, yes we have different choices and
Speaker 4: different focus points, but this cannot divert our focus that
Speaker 4: it should be driven by renewables. I've been in so
Speaker 4: many energy councils when there was a real fight about
Speaker 4: which is the preferred technology, and people fighting each other
Speaker 4: on national choices on energy mixes. But really this is
Speaker 4: water under the bridge because every MEMBA set can decide
Speaker 4: its own energy mix. But we have targets with regard
Speaker 4: to climate, with targets with regard to renewable energy. So
Speaker 4: let's focus on that. Build a system that is based
Speaker 4: on renewables. It will be the cheapest, it will save
Speaker 4: European economy and society as a whole a lot of money,
Speaker 4: and just don't fight on specific choice in specific member states.
Speaker 3: So Tina, now you're the head of when you're up,
Speaker 3: and of course we like wind a lot can you
Speaker 3: explain a bit the situation of the wind industry right now,
Speaker 3: because if I look the past two years un Tour
Speaker 3: twenty five, there was a wind root because there's a
Speaker 3: lot of stories around the supply chain. So the vision
Speaker 3: is that from the outside that we have is that yeah,
Speaker 3: solar is going youang buster, but whin it's kind of
Speaker 3: struggling or maybe it's at a costcold. So explain a
Speaker 3: bit what's the situation of the industry right now.
Speaker 4: First, I'd like to say that we are absolutely stepping
Speaker 4: up the task. If we are looking back at twenty
Speaker 4: twenty five, what happened last year. We saw in twenty
Speaker 4: twenty five an increase of wind capacity. Wind is now
Speaker 4: twenty percent of all electricity consumed in Europe. But the
Speaker 4: most important number that I wanted to cite here is
Speaker 4: the billions that we have invested in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4: If it's forty five billion in final investment decisions so
Speaker 4: euros for projects that are final and that we will
Speaker 4: be built the coming years, that means there is confidence
Speaker 4: from the industry that indeed they can take these decisions,
Speaker 4: that there is confidence in the regulatory frameworks that this
Speaker 4: project that can be built. It also points to the
Speaker 4: fact that it's a scalable industry. Germany, for example, is
Speaker 4: one third of all installations because they had this fast
Speaker 4: permitting that they worked so beautifully. In Germany, they implemented
Speaker 4: overriding public interest and we saw the industry followed. Also
Speaker 4: in the years to come, one third of the installations
Speaker 4: on shore wind installations will be built in Germany. So
Speaker 4: we are generally up to the task. We have the
Speaker 4: technology for onshore winds, for offshore wind We see more
Speaker 4: and more auctions coming. There is consensus that we can
Speaker 4: work with CfDS. We have a market design that is
Speaker 4: working that gives also this price signal. And these forty
Speaker 4: five billions are invested. Why because there is regulary stability,
Speaker 4: so they can easily go away. If we are now
Speaker 4: back peddling on existing rules that exist. We need a
Speaker 4: second leap. We need to move from crisis to confidence,
Speaker 4: and we can not do so if there is regulatory
Speaker 4: instability to come, if existing rules based on which investment
Speaker 4: decisions are taken, if they are continuously put into question. Yes,
Speaker 4: we are up to the task and the state of
Speaker 4: the industry is rather good. We have our challenges we'll
Speaker 4: see more projects coming. If there is a more predictable
Speaker 4: project pipeline, you'll also see that costs will come down.
Speaker 4: We see a challenge in moving these competitive wind energy.
Speaker 4: To pass this through to off takers and we s
Speaker 4: is particularly a challenge with regard to electrification. We need
Speaker 4: to consume more electricity. We need to electrify transport, we
Speaker 4: need to electrify housing. We need to electrify industrial processes
Speaker 4: for which it's already possible to electrify today, for example,
Speaker 4: medium and low temperature heat processes. If we meet this
Speaker 4: challenge one at a time and are able to address
Speaker 4: this once, then we will see a further increase of
Speaker 4: wind in the years to come.
Speaker 2: Maybe we just dive a little bit more into the numbers,
Speaker 2: because if I look at the numbers for twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: if I just look at onshore wind, it looks like
Speaker 2: you're certainly at a ten year record in terms of installations.
Speaker 2: I must have been. I'm a little bit surprised. And
Speaker 2: the reason I'm a little bit of surprise is because
Speaker 2: does you generally feel that there's resistant to these larger turbines.
Speaker 2: Explain a little bit where that numbers come from on
Speaker 2: shore windy.
Speaker 4: Is just a very cost competitive technology. On Shore windys
Speaker 4: and ninety percent of all the installations that we have today,
Speaker 4: and even if they're SketchUp by offshore winds, the ratio
Speaker 4: will remain more or less the same. It will be
Speaker 4: eighty percent of onshore and twenty percent of offshore. There
Speaker 4: is resistance to these higher turbines, but this is resistance
Speaker 4: that we need to overcome, and we need to build
Speaker 4: confidence that energy transition is supported by citizens. Because if
Speaker 4: we reap ower existing on shore windy installations, we can
Speaker 4: reduce the number of turbines, we can double the capacity,
Speaker 4: but more importantly, we can triple the generation. Let's look
Speaker 4: at Italy. Italy has thirteen gigawatts of onshore wind installations.
Speaker 4: Six gigawatts will be having a lifetime of twenty years
Speaker 4: between now and five years. So if we focus on
Speaker 4: these six gigawatt of projects, if you can decrease the
Speaker 4: number of turbines, double the capacity and triple the generation,
Speaker 4: the Italian energy system will be in a far better place.
Speaker 4: Italy is so gass dependent today and we see this
Speaker 4: is in an electricity prices in Italy today and the
Speaker 4: only go to way for Italy is to increase renewable
Speaker 4: electricity in the energy mix, and they can easily do
Speaker 4: so if they have a dedicated approach to repowering. What
Speaker 4: does it look like a dedicated approaches specifically with regard
Speaker 4: to permitting. These are existing projects That means they are
Speaker 4: already in a place where there has been looked at
Speaker 4: environment for example, how close they are to where people
Speaker 4: lives and for ands. For of course we will be
Speaker 4: adding capacity, but let's then do environmental permit for the
Speaker 4: capacity that you add, and not treaties as completely new
Speaker 4: green field projects. Onshore wind is a beautiful technology and
Speaker 4: it's often underestimated what can be done with it.
Speaker 2: And you know, by the way, I be one hundred
Speaker 2: percent in agreement, which in terms of onshore wind, I
Speaker 2: also would share the vision actually that what we need
Speaker 2: to do is repower all these old turbines et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera. And if let's take the case of early
Speaker 2: movers like Spain, Germany, Ireland, you say, okay, you take
Speaker 2: all these onshore turbines and you upgrade them, and then
Speaker 2: a sort of begs the crystom do we need offshore
Speaker 2: wind at all we do.
Speaker 4: Spain is a beautiful example what can be done with
Speaker 4: onshore wind. They basically repower their whole system. But Spain
Speaker 4: with regard to offshore winds may be more difficult situation
Speaker 4: off sure wind, it's very deep waters in the Mediterranean,
Speaker 4: so that's a beautiful case for floating. Floating very expensive today,
Speaker 4: but it's an innovation field. So we do hope that
Speaker 4: we see the first offshore wind auction in Spain soon,
Speaker 4: but that will not be from the beginning of very
Speaker 4: big projects. But in the North Sea, for example, of
Speaker 4: your wind is very easy, very easy, is maybe a
Speaker 4: little bit too strong, but it's no regrets, it's an
Speaker 4: absolute can do. You can build the interconnections, you can
Speaker 4: interconnect it. You can do this in a hybrid way.
Speaker 4: You can interconnect so different countries with each other. There
Speaker 4: is already a lot of offshore winds the North Sea,
Speaker 4: but also the Baltic Sea really can be the power
Speaker 4: engines of the North Sea has a very large energy
Speaker 4: intensive countries like Germany, like Belgium for example, so it's
Speaker 4: beautiful add on to the energy system. Specifically, if you
Speaker 4: have your mesh grits, if you interconnect more. Let's look
Speaker 4: at Poland for example, it's very ambitious with regard to
Speaker 4: off sure wind. Poland will be across a Baltic Sea,
Speaker 4: an emerging leader. They have done their first auctions that
Speaker 4: are building today offshore wind and we also see in
Speaker 4: our outlook it's the third market. You have UK, you
Speaker 4: have Germany and then you have Poland. They have seen
Speaker 4: in the northern part of Poland a lot of investments
Speaker 4: in supply chain. They show in reality and if you
Speaker 4: do an auction with a CFD, the project is being
Speaker 4: built that the supply chain follows and it's creating a
Speaker 4: lot of jobs. But Poland with regard to onshore winds,
Speaker 4: they have basically no installations also because of a distance rule.
Speaker 4: That's something that really I cannot understand. In a country
Speaker 4: like Belgium, which is so densely populated, we do have
Speaker 4: onshore wind. So if Belgium can build onshore wind, then
Speaker 4: then certainly Poland can do it. So it's also important
Speaker 4: for policy makers that they do and efforts, consistent efforts
Speaker 4: to have both technologies, both onshore and both offshore, that
Speaker 4: they develop ways to have them both in their countries, we.
Speaker 3: Follow absolutely what you say. But at the same time
Speaker 3: you have country like Sweden who I've decided to cancel
Speaker 3: all of the off shot wind and I can tell
Speaker 3: you why. I mean, it's the nuclear looby. Period is nuclearloby.
Speaker 3: They say off shore wind is too expensive, so let's
Speaker 3: go nuclear, and two months later they say, oh, can
Speaker 3: we have a lot of subsidies for nuclear. Those people
Speaker 3: you can't say it. I can't say it. They are
Speaker 3: nefarious because you can have both. And the same speech
Speaker 3: have been used in the US to block off short
Speaker 3: wind in the northeast and in Sweden. So I'm sorry
Speaker 3: to say Swedish. I love Sweden, but here this is
Speaker 3: a massive, massive stupid move. It's ideology. And when you
Speaker 3: have ideology, ideology is expensive. You don't want to show wind. Okay,
Speaker 3: people are gonna pay if you don't develop off shot
Speaker 3: win in Sweden. Okay, sorry, that's.
Speaker 4: My Errand it's set if ideology comes away. And it's
Speaker 4: really something that we should be very conscious about. What
Speaker 4: do we need as Europe today? As Europe, we need
Speaker 4: Europe to be a place to invest. Why because people
Speaker 4: need jobs, people need to pay their rents and so on.
Speaker 4: So we can beautifully combine the needs for having access
Speaker 4: to homegrown electricity with Europe being a place to invest.
Speaker 4: So this is not about ideology. It's about feeling safe
Speaker 4: not to worry where electricity is coming from, because we
Speaker 4: build it ourselves, we control it ourselves, not be worrying
Speaker 4: about the price because we are dependent on someone else,
Speaker 4: and we know if our system brands on our newals,
Speaker 4: it will be the cheapest one. We should really also
Speaker 4: call it as it is that there are people that
Speaker 4: make this about ideology, and when making this about ideology,
Speaker 4: it will also hurt us as a wind industry because
Speaker 4: basically we have to put the money on the table
Speaker 4: to build this project. Forty five billion twenty two twenty
Speaker 4: five were put on the table. We cannot afford this
Speaker 4: if it's purely about ideology. We are an industry. We
Speaker 4: are not a political party. We are not a lobby group,
Speaker 4: We are not an NGO. We are people that decided
Speaker 4: that our business is wins and we put the money
Speaker 4: next to it. So give us stability and give us
Speaker 4: decisions that are grounds in facts and not on mere beliefs.
Speaker 3: Well, Tina, thank you so much for this message of
Speaker 3: resilience and fight because.
Speaker 2: We need to fight solutely.
Speaker 3: But also I like your positive vision and how wind
Speaker 3: integrates with grids. We need more interconnection, we need more collaboration,
Speaker 3: and you know that we are working on this crazy
Speaker 3: but doable project of building an interconnector across the advantage
Speaker 3: because that's the way the two forties needs to work.
Speaker 3: We need to extend agreed as much as possible. And
Speaker 3: if you look at the economics, they are like extraordinary
Speaker 3: because you took non correlation here. The non correlations are
Speaker 3: absolutely perfect. So it would strengthen the nausea Basin and
Speaker 3: Canada together. So I saw that when you hope a
Speaker 3: few days ago in Madrid with a great success. So
Speaker 3: congratulation and keep on the great fight.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I consider myself being a happy warrior to
Speaker 4: do this fights. In nineteen twenty six, Churchill already said
Speaker 4: that you cannot afford to look back, and that is
Speaker 4: I think what drives me also in this job. We
Speaker 4: have to look forward, we have to imagine how the
Speaker 4: future will be, and we cannot afford to look back.
Speaker 2: Well said, thank you, thank you very much for covering
Speaker 2: of the shows.
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you for having.
Speaker 3: Me so Joab, Well, we thank Tina for coming on
Speaker 3: the show. And I'm always sometimes frustrated after I took
Speaker 3: to politicians the past lows the fixed target and the
Speaker 3: industry the investor will follow, and they don't understand that
Speaker 3: passing laws that easy part.
Speaker 2: Yet the hard part of the execution.
Speaker 3: Right it is in the short term politician can only
Speaker 3: act on prices. We have our energy crisis right now,
Speaker 3: so okay, they're going to throw subsidies, and the amount
Speaker 3: of subsidies put on the fossilful sector really upon the
Speaker 3: puke or the tax. They actually on price, but volume,
Speaker 3: that's a one. It takes time, takes years. I understand
Speaker 3: politician one short term result. But we are industry people
Speaker 3: who are financed people. We need time to enact. And
Speaker 3: I can tell you we're working very hard.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean the capital is available and as we've
Speaker 2: got huge competencies. Is an area in Europe and this
Speaker 2: whole area so which I know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to share with you a funny anecdote
Speaker 3: while I was at paneticsis more than twenty years ago
Speaker 3: we were launching the first debt fund for wind in France.
Speaker 3: It was one of the first in Europe. It was
Speaker 3: in partnership with the government via the environmental agency called ADAM.
Speaker 3: So we had structure a kind of mezzanine where the
Speaker 3: ADAM would take the first loss and then private banks
Speaker 3: would finance the senior trunch. And that was very successful.
Speaker 3: But unfortunately the good idea turned a bit of a
Speaker 3: disaster because all the developers were pumping up their P
Speaker 3: fifty and P ninety and I think the fund ended
Speaker 3: up owning a third of top wind firm because equally
Speaker 3: went to the old Anyway, Nadi Sis and Adam we
Speaker 3: organized a seminar for the industry to explain the strategy.
Speaker 3: You present the fund, give advice and so on. Tips
Speaker 3: were one hundred and eighty five participants, so ADAM got
Speaker 3: very pumped up and decided to organize their own seminar,
Speaker 3: you know, with the list of people and to follow up,
Speaker 3: and only twelve people coming, so they called us. They
Speaker 3: were really pissed off, and my boss at the time
Speaker 3: told them laughing, last time we came with the government
Speaker 3: money to cash out, everybody was willing to support her pontification,
Speaker 3: but now you want to lecture the industry with no money,
Speaker 3: so nobody's interested.
Speaker 2: Anyway, wind. I think what a conclusion all over the
Speaker 2: is wind as a future and an important, very important
Speaker 2: role in Europe, whether it be from the electricity production
Speaker 2: side or also from jobs perspective and production. You know,
Speaker 2: we've Obvioside got the best as the Sammans of this world, etc.
Speaker 3: Overall, I think she was excellent when we talk about repowering.
Speaker 3: That's how a lot of new wind is going to
Speaker 3: be developed because these are the best sites and they
Speaker 3: already connected. So repowering found you a superb I think
Speaker 3: I'm floating she's totally delusional. Is it's one of the
Speaker 3: technology that is an engineer dream and a financi nightmare.
Speaker 2: I think i'd agree with another a great totally. You know,
Speaker 2: like I'm a technologist at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: and for me a technology to be scalable, you need
Speaker 2: to be producing millions of us and you need to
Speaker 2: be doing it again and again and again. And you
Speaker 2: ain't doing this. When it comes to offshore floating wind,
Speaker 2: I can't. It's what that means is it's very difficult
Speaker 2: to get the cost there it economic.
Speaker 3: At the end of the day. The success of the
Speaker 3: North Sea and the Baltic Sea is shallow waters very
Speaker 3: good win regimes, but especially a supply chain. You know,
Speaker 3: people who are used to go on the sea and
Speaker 3: you know from the oil and gas industry, right exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: I think the attempts in the Meidanian are going to
Speaker 3: be tougher. You get the wind, but it's deeper. I
Speaker 3: don't think you have the supply chain. The last point
Speaker 3: I want to make, and I think that's very positive
Speaker 3: for us, is that you really get the fact that
Speaker 3: you will need more interconnections. You know, there's always my message.
Speaker 3: So our pairs were with batteries and wing pair wears
Speaker 3: with transmission.
Speaker 2: Yeah, ye're absolutely right on that. All right, my friend
Speaker 2: as ever, could have a good conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Joe, I'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 4: Look forward to Thank you for listening to Redefining Energy.
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