1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:05,519 Speaker 2: My name is Darren Chackman. 3 00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:08,439 Speaker 1: I currently live in Penalula, but I'm from Los Angeles 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,279 and I'm playing at Rooster Run today. 5 00:00:10,359 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 2: My favorite course. 6 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,599 Speaker 1: This is Golf Smarter episode nine hundred and ninety five. 7 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 2: Warming up is just to warm up and be ready 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,879 to play that day. Practice is usually to improve some skills. 9 00:00:22,039 --> 00:00:23,960 I don't want to spend my time doing that when 10 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,519 I'm warming up. I want to do things that create confidence, 11 00:00:26,679 --> 00:00:29,839 but just to access balance, and I hit some shots 12 00:00:29,879 --> 00:00:33,719 with slower tempo, medium temple, faster temple, just to see 13 00:00:33,759 --> 00:00:36,880 what temple like is functional today because some days my 14 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,439 body is more tired and I need to calm it down. 15 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,119 Other days I'm totally alert. My body's sharp back and 16 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,960 swing faster, so it's a lot of calibration. My warm 17 00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:49,759 up is more about calibrating and getting my body and 18 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,200 mind ready for playing the game of off. It's not 19 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,600 about improving skills, and it's not about like how hit 20 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,240 it on the range is going to decide how I'm 21 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,000 going to hit it on the course. Everybody know who's 22 00:01:01,159 --> 00:01:04,079 played golf long enough, I can hit it extremely well 23 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:05,840 and warm up and then I go to the first 24 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,879 tee and it's gone or the opposite that I feel 25 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,359 like not good at all on the range and suddenly 26 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:14,040 comes together on the course. So it's like no indication 27 00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:17,159 anyways for what's going to happen. It's about finding my 28 00:01:17,239 --> 00:01:19,799 best way to just warm up and create confidence. 29 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,439 Speaker 1: Decision making the key to better Smarter golf With Vision 30 00:01:29,519 --> 00:01:35,239 fifty four's Ian Neilson. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, 31 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,519 tips and insights from great golf minds to help you 32 00:01:38,599 --> 00:01:41,319 lower your score and raise your golf IQ. 33 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,799 Speaker 2: There's your host, Fred Green. 34 00:01:45,239 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast. 35 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,439 Speaker 2: Pia, Hi Fred, Nice to talk to you again. 36 00:01:50,959 --> 00:01:54,359 Speaker 1: It's been so great and we've had this relationship going 37 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,760 since two thousand and seven, late two thousand and seven, 38 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:03,640 like before episode one hundred, so here we are approaching 39 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,760 one thousand. You were episode ninety eight and Lynn was 40 00:02:06,879 --> 00:02:10,599 ninety seven, and it's just a great honor to have 41 00:02:10,719 --> 00:02:15,599 you both appearing on the show and sharing your insights 42 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,560 and advice. Greatly appreciate it. 43 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Fred, and thanks for all you do 44 00:02:21,319 --> 00:02:23,639 for the game here as many years of doing it. 45 00:02:24,039 --> 00:02:28,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a nice contribution that I feel like 46 00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:30,719 I've been able to make you know, one of the 47 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:35,840 in the earliest show you guys, you said something that 48 00:02:36,479 --> 00:02:41,000 not only have I been quoting probably every round of 49 00:02:41,319 --> 00:02:45,800 golf that I play with people, but I used it yesterday, 50 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,080 and that would be the think box and playbox. Although 51 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,240 I don't know how I caught it to be the 52 00:02:53,319 --> 00:02:57,800 thought box and shot box Oka, but it kind of works. 53 00:02:58,199 --> 00:03:03,280 You know, you can go on either one. I want 54 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,840 to where am I going with it? So there's a 55 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:09,960 third element to that, the memory box, which I don't 56 00:03:10,039 --> 00:03:13,199 remember at all, but I think we should go over it. 57 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,759 I think it's something that every golfer needs to understand 58 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,919 to help them get into a better mindset before they 59 00:03:21,199 --> 00:03:21,719 hit the ball. 60 00:03:22,199 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And as you said, we call it the 61 00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:27,599 think box and playbox, but it doesn't really matter what 62 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,840 words you use as long as oh what the purpose 63 00:03:30,879 --> 00:03:32,879 of it is. And it was because we found so 64 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:37,039 many golfers step up over the shot and they're still thinking, preparing, 65 00:03:37,199 --> 00:03:39,800 wondering if they have the right club or where's the 66 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,680 wind coming from, And we just wanted to make that 67 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,159 distinction that before golf shot you can think, you can 68 00:03:46,199 --> 00:03:48,479 think about the target and where you're going and what 69 00:03:48,599 --> 00:03:50,759 kind of shot you're going to hit that you need 70 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,199 to be like done, you need to have made a decision, 71 00:03:54,759 --> 00:03:59,560 and then stepping up and being more athletic and you know, feel. 72 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,159 So it's the separation of preparation and then the performance 73 00:04:04,199 --> 00:04:07,919 piece because in golfers in general, because it hasn't been trained, 74 00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:12,520 can be so messy. So it is about the future 75 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,919 of the shot, the think box, and then the present 76 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,480 when actually executing, where no thinking cognitive thoughts is going 77 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:23,319 to help you. But then we for many years we 78 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,160 had that, and then we would also golf schools and 79 00:04:26,199 --> 00:04:29,160 coach and talk about the post shot reaction because it's 80 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,879 so important how you choose to react two shots, for 81 00:04:33,439 --> 00:04:36,079 how much confidence you're going to feel and momentum for 82 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,959 the round. But it was kind of separate. But then 83 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,480 we realized that's kind of silly because it's this three 84 00:04:41,519 --> 00:04:42,759 faces to every shot. 85 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:43,959 Speaker 1: You have it before a. 86 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: Shot, you have it during the shot, you have the 87 00:04:47,319 --> 00:04:50,439 after the shot. How we actually deal with what just happened. 88 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,879 So we just decided it's better put those together. It's 89 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,439 the think box, playbox, memory box, and that's your your 90 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,160 routine for every golf shot, and it to explore and 91 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,959 find what is best for me to do in those 92 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:05,600 three timeframes. 93 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: Okay, that's a perfect explanation. I mean I want to 94 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:16,000 ask why, but it should be obvious. The golfers, amateur 95 00:05:16,079 --> 00:05:23,560 golfers especially, need to get a good rhythm pre during, 96 00:05:23,879 --> 00:05:28,480 and post shot. Why why is that important? 97 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 2: Well? Why it's important because you know, you have a 98 00:05:31,879 --> 00:05:36,680 golf shot and you only have the one golf shot 99 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,319 you have is the only golf shot. I mean you 100 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,480 only have one drive off number one hopefully, but I 101 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,600 mean a shot is unique. You know, you don't like 102 00:05:44,639 --> 00:05:47,439 your range, I can just see it another one and whatever. 103 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,720 You have only have one chance. I mean, you have 104 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,120 one shot, and they're all so different in our game 105 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:55,279 because I'm on the golf course. It goes from two 106 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,519 hundred and twenty yards to fifteen yard pitch shot to putt. 107 00:05:59,639 --> 00:06:03,399 I mean, it's that variability. So you need to actually 108 00:06:03,439 --> 00:06:06,720 make a decision for every shot in golf because every 109 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,480 shot you hit you in the around is going to 110 00:06:08,519 --> 00:06:13,600 be different. So a decision that you commit to needs 111 00:06:13,639 --> 00:06:16,199 to be made. And it seems obvious, but many have 112 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:21,439 just skipped that part. Yeah, and then and then of course, 113 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,480 like you know, golf is a game and anyone who 114 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:31,120 is going to perform, well, it doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, golf, tennis, whatever. 115 00:06:31,639 --> 00:06:35,399 While you're performing, you're more athletic, like you see the 116 00:06:35,519 --> 00:06:39,040 target or you feel something in emotion, you know, longer 117 00:06:39,079 --> 00:06:43,319 preparing you actually in the moment. But because in golf 118 00:06:43,439 --> 00:06:48,439 the ball is sitting still waiting for us, many start 119 00:06:48,519 --> 00:06:53,079 overthinking all the ball absolutely, and so that's why it's 120 00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:55,199 so important to figure out, you know, what I do 121 00:06:55,319 --> 00:06:57,759 best when I just feel that calm tempo when I'm 122 00:06:57,759 --> 00:06:59,600 over the ball, or you know what I do best 123 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,600 when I do still have an image of the target 124 00:07:01,639 --> 00:07:04,439 over the ball, or no, what I do best when 125 00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:07,120 I just sense that constant gret pressure. So you need 126 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,920 to figure out what helps me that isn't like working 127 00:07:10,959 --> 00:07:14,399 on a swing change, but playing with the swing I 128 00:07:14,439 --> 00:07:17,639 got right now and have the best field or sense 129 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:19,160 that for the golf shot. 130 00:07:20,319 --> 00:07:23,439 Speaker 1: When I look at a scorecard after the round and 131 00:07:23,519 --> 00:07:28,920 I see the holes that were issues that contributed to 132 00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:33,160 a higher score than I had hoped for, I noticed that, 133 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,279 you know, there's definitely going to be shots in there 134 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,000 that aren't exactly what I had hoped to accomplish. But 135 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:47,120 that doesn't bother me that that happens to every golfer 136 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:52,759 at every level. What I see in my scorecard, the 137 00:07:53,319 --> 00:07:57,759 higher numbers, it's like I made a bad decision. That's 138 00:07:57,839 --> 00:07:59,959 what stands out to me, is like, see, I just 139 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,040 I shouldn't have tried to be a hero in this shot. 140 00:08:03,079 --> 00:08:05,720 I should have you know, I should have taken an 141 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:09,439 extra club. I didn't consider the wind. I didn't consider 142 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:13,079 the uphill downhill or even how heavy the air is, 143 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:16,759 and I made mistakes at that end. 144 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's like after the round, is it's really 145 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,399 good to just have a little reflection time, like in 146 00:08:24,439 --> 00:08:27,600 your case there, Like what is the learning here? You know? 147 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,600 Is it that I'm you know, always go to I 148 00:08:31,639 --> 00:08:34,600 mean too often to the pin or my routine before 149 00:08:34,639 --> 00:08:37,039 the shot. I don't check the wind enough. I mean, 150 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,759 that's really want to do the reflection after the round? 151 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:42,799 How can I get better at this in the future. 152 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: So there's the post shot routine and the post round routine. 153 00:08:47,879 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely what. 154 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: Are the things that we need to think about? I mean, 155 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,879 why can't I recognize that in my post shot routine 156 00:08:57,519 --> 00:08:59,879 of like that was a bad decision? 157 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,399 Speaker 2: Well, you know, The thing is that if you start 158 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,320 to analyze after every shot, you're going to exhaust yourself. 159 00:09:09,919 --> 00:09:11,960 You know, it's just has to be too much, and 160 00:09:12,039 --> 00:09:16,879 like one shot is not a trend, so you know. 161 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,519 So some players can say, you know, just after the shot, 162 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,240 you know, okay, it went in you know whatever in 163 00:09:23,279 --> 00:09:26,360 the rough and you know, I didn't consider the wind, 164 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,399 and then they leave it as such and they move on. 165 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,320 So some can do it because they do is do 166 00:09:30,519 --> 00:09:35,720 it easily. But some gets into this too much analyzed 167 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,039 and thinking while you have a shot to hit in 168 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,960 one minute, you know. So it's that's where we want 169 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,720 to explore, and we don't have one way of doing it. 170 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,279 It depends on a little bit how you are and 171 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,440 how you play on the course. What is best to 172 00:09:50,519 --> 00:09:53,919 do after a golf shot? But too much analysis save 173 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:54,919 that after the run. 174 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,759 Speaker 1: Right over, analysis leads to paralysis. I guess what they say. 175 00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:06,559 So tell me give me an update on what's going 176 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,279 on with Vision fifty four down in Scottsdale. You're talking to. 177 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 2: Golf course, Yes we are. 178 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we have been for quite a while. 179 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we were first like eleven years at 180 00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:22,200 the Legacy Golf Course here in Phoenix and then now 181 00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:24,799 we're like twelve or thirteen years at Talking Stick, so 182 00:10:24,919 --> 00:10:27,120 it's work great, and we like to do a lot 183 00:10:27,159 --> 00:10:30,159 of our coaching on the course and we have thirty 184 00:10:30,159 --> 00:10:33,159 six holes there, so it's really good. But anyway, so 185 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,200 it's doing very well, and we have all kinds of 186 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,320 different programs for different golfers. But it still amazes us 187 00:10:41,039 --> 00:10:46,840 that it's not as common yet to teach and coach 188 00:10:46,919 --> 00:10:50,960 the non technical skills of the game. But we feel 189 00:10:51,039 --> 00:10:54,879 through our books and now we've created more training books 190 00:10:54,879 --> 00:10:59,320 and the interest among other coaches that things are happening 191 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,200 because I think we, along with so many other teachers 192 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,559 and coaches, we care about growing the game and making 193 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,200 golfers play better, and we just want the view of 194 00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:14,519 playing better to be wide enough that of course we 195 00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:18,480 need to keep developing the technical skills and so I 196 00:11:18,519 --> 00:11:20,279 can hit the bunker shops the way I want to, 197 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,240 or put well, or hit it further and all of that, 198 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,960 but there still is a process of playing the game 199 00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:29,720 that often get dismissed or not focused on, and we 200 00:11:29,879 --> 00:11:32,840 just think it's too bad. So we just want the 201 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:38,279 fundamentals to be wide enough so if I improve my swing. 202 00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:41,399 I still know how to play on the golf course 203 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,440 when I only have one try and I need to 204 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,960 make a decision, and I need to trust my decision, 205 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,600 and I need to be athletic, and you know, so 206 00:11:48,639 --> 00:11:53,639 it belongs to the golf fundamentals to learn both the 207 00:11:53,759 --> 00:11:58,879 technical and non technical. And we keep on going. Now 208 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:01,840 we've done it for a few decades, but just doing 209 00:12:01,879 --> 00:12:05,879 what we can to shift that paradigm so everybody can 210 00:12:05,919 --> 00:12:08,000 see it that way, because I don't know anyone who 211 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,679 can disagree with that there is a process to play 212 00:12:10,759 --> 00:12:11,600 the game on the course. 213 00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: You said that you like to give lessons on the 214 00:12:22,279 --> 00:12:28,240 course as opposed to just hitting off of the driving range. 215 00:12:29,519 --> 00:12:31,519 We talk about this a lot on this show, have 216 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,200 been for decades, and that is that there's a big 217 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,440 difference between hitting balls and playing golf. 218 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like two different sports. 219 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,519 Speaker 1: It really is. It really is, because when you're hitting balls, 220 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,279 generally you're hitting its flat. It's you know, if you're 221 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,639 hitting on grass, there's probably a lot of sand anyway, 222 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,879 because the way they have to refurbish the grass all 223 00:12:53,919 --> 00:12:58,159 the time redo it. But why is it that you 224 00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:02,960 prefer to give your lessons on the course you know, 225 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,639 in course lessons versus just strictly arranged lessons. 226 00:13:06,799 --> 00:13:09,799 Speaker 2: Well, because the whole point is for everybody who comes 227 00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:11,919 to see us is that they want to play better 228 00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:16,600 and some even enjoy it more so, and we know 229 00:13:17,799 --> 00:13:20,840 how a golfer hits on the range. There's really no 230 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,399 indication how they hit it on the golf course, so 231 00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:27,360 we are so much more interested in how is there swing, 232 00:13:27,399 --> 00:13:31,320 how is their stroke? What happens on the golf course, 233 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,639 and when we know that, then we can make more 234 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,840 sense of what to do on the practice area. But 235 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,320 you know, even the first day at our golf school, 236 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,440 we don't go on the golf course in the afternoon, 237 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,720 and we're really careful to keep our mouth shut and 238 00:13:44,759 --> 00:13:50,080 not say anything about their swing and before we've actually 239 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,000 seen it in action on the golf course. And so 240 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:57,440 it's just like it's kind of a reality check that 241 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,679 the truth is what happens on the golf course. So 242 00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:03,480 if I am a coach of the game of golf, 243 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,200 I need to observe them on the golf course. So 244 00:14:06,279 --> 00:14:10,279 on the golf course, it could be observing what they 245 00:14:10,279 --> 00:14:12,360 do and see what's good and what can be better 246 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,399 from the technique to you know, how they make decisions 247 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,440 and how they stay focused to the finished Very few 248 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,879 on the golf course, it was just a few. It's 249 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,840 very common on the golf course that the swing gets 250 00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:31,080 abrupted because they're so into the outcome, which doesn't happen 251 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,919 on the range because it means more so, you know, 252 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,120 and how they act after the shot, and you know, 253 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,600 all these things, their pace of play. You know, it's 254 00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:44,919 really important for us too. So the reality happens out 255 00:14:44,919 --> 00:14:48,200 there and we want to be coaches to help them, 256 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,080 and then that helps us what to do when we practice, 257 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,639 and sometimes we go out and they get to explore. Okay, 258 00:14:53,679 --> 00:14:57,600 let's try three different things to do in your think 259 00:14:57,639 --> 00:14:59,639 box to see which one you like, or let's try 260 00:14:59,679 --> 00:15:02,639 a couple different things in the playbox so they get 261 00:15:02,679 --> 00:15:05,679 to discover, like this works for me, this doesn't work 262 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,559 for me. And being on the golf course is totally 263 00:15:10,559 --> 00:15:13,320 different than being on the pudding green or the range 264 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,159 because it's more perceived pressure. 265 00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, another huge advancement that we've had in over the 266 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:26,279 decades that we've been doing, these golf simulators have become 267 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,519 very very popular, to the point where we now have 268 00:15:30,639 --> 00:15:36,720 a professional level Golf Simulator League TGL, which I'm a 269 00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:42,960 huge fan of. But how does that impact your instruction 270 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,600 because people are playing core I'm using air quotes for courses, 271 00:15:49,159 --> 00:15:52,399 but they're hitting into a screen from a flat spot 272 00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:53,759 like hitting in the range. 273 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 2: So I mean, I think it's awesome because it's closer 274 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,519 to the real thing. You know, it's you know, it's 275 00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:03,320 still not obviously the same. You don't have the breaks 276 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,000 between shots, and many times you see them in simulators 277 00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:10,200 and they kind of skip over the think box, and 278 00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:15,879 you know they're still most evaluating performance, they're not evaluating 279 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,759 the process. But through the simulators you can do a 280 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,720 lot more good practice and good learning. But you still 281 00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:29,679 need to know what to look for if you're going 282 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,320 to coach them through the simulators, not just where the 283 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,879 ball went or how whatever the trajector and all that 284 00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:38,720 just couldn't see behind. 285 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:43,639 Speaker 1: That, right, Well, it's also giving you most simulators, especially 286 00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:47,399 things like track Man and all these other advances here, 287 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,679 they're giving you a lot of data, a lot of 288 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,320 information about the ball itself and what it's doing, where 289 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:58,799 it's going. Is that helped you or is that something 290 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,600 that's just an added Is it an added bonus or 291 00:17:01,639 --> 00:17:02,840 is it an added distraction? 292 00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: Both? Well, I think that got a lot of you 293 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,559 all this awesome technology is like, it's brilliantly good because 294 00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:15,480 we're not guessing anymore. We actually get real number of 295 00:17:15,519 --> 00:17:21,759 repacts objective that yes, and we also have to remember 296 00:17:21,799 --> 00:17:26,640 there's an outer reality and inner reality. So what we 297 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,799 find those that overuse it today? I mean, if you 298 00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:34,000 have juniors that have used it too much. For example, 299 00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:36,920 we can be on the golf course, I ask them, okay, 300 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,559 tell me the distance to the flag without looking at technology, 301 00:17:40,799 --> 00:17:43,440 and they can't see the difference between fifteen hundred and 302 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,880 twenty yards because they haven't even they have never needed 303 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,799 to train their senses. So if they can be really 304 00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:56,440 really good player, it's about art and science. So the 305 00:17:56,559 --> 00:17:59,440 technology is great as long as I still learn to 306 00:17:59,559 --> 00:18:03,839 know what does it actually mean to trust a golf shot? 307 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,119 What does it still mean to sense a temple? Because 308 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,880 sensing a temper is an internal experience that I need 309 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,119 to know and not just base it on numbers from 310 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,559 the outside. Or if I want to be super focused 311 00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:22,160 and totally zero in visualize my ballflight to target, it's 312 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:27,960 like an inner experience. So technology is great. Is still 313 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,240 as long as I still honor this the inner skills 314 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,559 that is needed that are more subjective. So if I 315 00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:38,960 have a balance of both, it's really good. But many 316 00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:44,519 today only go towards technique and technology and dismiss the 317 00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:47,000 other part, and then it's never going to be optimal. 318 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,079 Speaker 1: Since you guys have started coaching, and you were really, 319 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,839 I don't want to say, you were the first, but 320 00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:02,160 highest profile to integrate the whole mind body connection into golf, 321 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,319 you know, the mental elements of it, the thinking part 322 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,759 of it, into just swing mechanics where we come from 323 00:19:08,839 --> 00:19:11,559 Ben Hogan's book and we're just talking about the mechanics, 324 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,240 and then it started to evolve into mental games, and 325 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:19,799 then you know, podcasting started happening and we're talking about 326 00:19:19,799 --> 00:19:22,559 the mental game a lot here and others as well. 327 00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:27,920 How has that evolved since you've been coaching the mind 328 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,559 body connection element or was it always there and just 329 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:33,599 didn't talk about it much? 330 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: Well, I think for the greatest players, has always been 331 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:42,359 there but never talked about because it's not as obvious 332 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,599 and you can't like measure it and you can't like 333 00:19:46,039 --> 00:19:48,240 see it on the screen. So I think among the 334 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:53,480 great coaches and great players. He's been there, But then 335 00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:57,839 we've been led to believe that it's only the outer 336 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,759 view and taken that really matters. But I think so 337 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,119 much has happened, but sometimes I feel they can still 338 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,680 be too separate. Okay, here's my technical coach, and then 339 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,039 I have this mental coach to help me. But sometimes 340 00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:16,559 they're just too separate. I think we in God, as 341 00:20:16,599 --> 00:20:21,480 golf coaches golf teachers, we need to honor that big picture. 342 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,880 So the golfers from the beginning always get to mixture. Okay, 343 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,960 we can work on this. You know. I want you 344 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,799 at home, in front of you a mirror, to work 345 00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:35,039 on these positions and these drills. But you know, when 346 00:20:35,079 --> 00:20:38,920 you go and play golf, we want to help you 347 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,720 with with you know, how you can make a decision, 348 00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:44,160 the feel you can have during your swing, and so 349 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:49,319 we like integrate it into anything we're doing. And that 350 00:20:49,599 --> 00:20:53,839 integration is not as solid today yet. 351 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: Are you and Lynn as coaching partners and business partners. 352 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,480 Do you each have your own specialty or you each 353 00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:11,880 cover both the mental and the physical side of playing golf, 354 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,440 or one focuses more on the other. 355 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 2: Well, I know I would I would say we you know, 356 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,000 we totally have one hundred percent in the same vision 357 00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:24,519 and beliefs about what we're doing and what we think 358 00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:27,160 the future needs, and we reflect and talk about it 359 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,200 a lot because we want to you know, probably Lynn 360 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,480 is my biggest critiquer and you know, question what we're 361 00:21:34,519 --> 00:21:37,519 doing and meet to her. So we have that. But 362 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:42,480 then I came originally more from the background as a player, 363 00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:45,240 having played on tour and all of that, and Lynn 364 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,319 has an even stronger background as a technical teacher, So 365 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,960 our original background is a little bit different like that, 366 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,359 even though Lena has still played a lot and I've 367 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:02,039 you know, since then, also have PGA education technical education, 368 00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:06,640 so we like Lin has done more in the past 369 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,359 club fitting that I have, So we come from a 370 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:14,839 different little different background and when we you know, when 371 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,200 we but when we coach and the things we developed 372 00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:24,480 so we can know that someplace it's going to listen 373 00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:27,880 stronger to learn in some place, but listen stronger to me. 374 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,720 So we just need to have no ego involved with that. 375 00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:36,400 And realizing that that we have two voices and we 376 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,960 have other coaches too, that we have more voices to 377 00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:43,680 the same message makes it even better. But we couldn't 378 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,880 function as a as a company and with a clear 379 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,079 philosophy if we didn't one hundred percent agree on what 380 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:52,960 we're doing and how we're doing it. 381 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: So, speaking of philosophy, explain why the company is called 382 00:22:57,839 --> 00:22:58,759 Vision fifty four. 383 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. Actually when we started our company we 384 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,720 call it Coaching for the Future, and still our incorporated name, 385 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,640 and because it was coaching for the future, but then 386 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,240 many thought we only did coach training. So when the 387 00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:16,440 fifty four comes from when I, in another lifetime was 388 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,079 head of our Swedish national teams and we started this 389 00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:24,400 fifty four thinking because many of those Swedish players at 390 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,759 that time had very limiting beliefs about what they can 391 00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:31,640 do in the future, being from this cold weather country 392 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,480 and so far behind so many nations. So the fifty 393 00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:38,200 four realizing to get them to be like a little 394 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,200 bit more believing in the future, we asked them, okay, 395 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,960 on your home course, the best score in each hole? 396 00:23:47,839 --> 00:23:50,680 What have you shot? And actually some have made birders 397 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,720 in every hole at one time or another, So we 398 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,920 just brought it up as a future possibility. What would 399 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,720 it take in the future during the same around, Just 400 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,559 let's say it would be possible. So how do you 401 00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:06,279 need to swing, how do you need to train, how 402 00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:09,519 fit you need to be? We just start going if 403 00:24:09,559 --> 00:24:11,839 you know, we believe it could happen. We don't know 404 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,960 which which centuries can happen, doesn't matter. We just think 405 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,559 it's humanly possible and let's go towards that. And it's 406 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,599 very good for us coaches to because who do we 407 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,880 need to be and what do we need to know 408 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,039 to support that process. So the vision fifty four is 409 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,640 just it's not about being disappointed if I don't shoot 410 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,880 fifty four. It's about it's about believing and possibilities and 411 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,640 going for it. So it's it's it's changed our whole culture. 412 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:45,079 And you know, obviously anic A certains Time is one 413 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,920 of the famous one who was part of when we 414 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,799 start first started this, and she always had that in 415 00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:54,240 the back of her mind striving towards that. And she 416 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,519 was the first woman and it's the first woman to 417 00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:58,039 have ever shot fifty nine. 418 00:24:58,839 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: So maybe amazing. No, you wouldn't be disappointed like shooting 419 00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:09,839 fifty four, but shooting fifty five any golfer, you know, 420 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,160 I just missed that one pot I could have had 421 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,599 a fifty But I only had a fifty five. It's 422 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,960 just the nature of golfer, isn't it as it. 423 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 2: Is fifty four? Said tarn It. I could have made 424 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:21,880 an ego there on that. 425 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Have you seen any of what Bryson 426 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,960 Deshamba has done on YouTube with his break fifty series? 427 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,279 Speaker 2: No, I haven't. 428 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: Actually do you know about it? Are you familiar with it? 429 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:34,519 Speaker 2: I mean a little bit? 430 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, where he goes and he'll play. I love 431 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,119 this concept. Instead of competing against my friends, it's like, 432 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,799 let's team up, right, and what he does is he 433 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,200 gets somebody, they play the front ties and they try 434 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:52,119 to break fifty right, and you know, with Bryson's length 435 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,039 and accuracy, they get close, but they I don't think 436 00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:58,039 they've done it yet. I think it's very entertaining, and 437 00:25:58,039 --> 00:26:00,519 I've told my friends, I said, let's do this instead 438 00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:05,240 of competing this week, let's partner up, play from a 439 00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:08,319 different tea box, closer tea box, and see if we 440 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,240 could shoot par Yeah, I know, combine our scores and 441 00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:15,200 see if we could we just shoot par and if 442 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,880 we do, then let's try to break seventy. Let's you know, 443 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,359 it's like set that goal i'll see a team. 444 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I super like it, and it gives so 445 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,160 much more positivity outlook in playing the game that I 446 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,160 think is really healthy. 447 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So how is the state of the game 448 00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:36,559 from your perspective? These days? We'll say, let's start with 449 00:26:36,599 --> 00:26:39,559 amateur play and we'll go from there. But what is 450 00:26:39,599 --> 00:26:41,519 the state of the game from your perspective? 451 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,799 Speaker 2: I think you know, it's growing a really healthy way. 452 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,160 But I feel like because of the growth in technology 453 00:26:50,759 --> 00:26:54,519 and tech knowledge about technique and the body swing connection 454 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,279 which is advanced a lot, but we also get many 455 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:04,240 that they get higher level of confusion because we look 456 00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:07,119 at the amateurs, so we call it the real golfers 457 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:13,839 of the game. They get all these suggestions through technology 458 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,880 and technique, but most amateurs they understand that, but they 459 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,240 honestly don't have time to actually practice to make changes 460 00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:25,400 that are suggested. And they keep saying, oh, yeah, I'm 461 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,559 going to do it, But the bottom line is that 462 00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:31,440 they have jobs, have families that have other things. So 463 00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:35,440 many go about things that are accurate, but it's not 464 00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:38,000 realistic they're going to make those changes and get it 465 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,799 to function on the golf course because they don't have 466 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,640 enough they don't have the time that the professional player 467 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,440 has to make that happen. So I think it's really 468 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,279 important to be honest about that. If I don't have 469 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,400 those hours to make the changes needed, what can I 470 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,440 still do to my game to play better? 471 00:27:58,839 --> 00:28:01,559 Speaker 1: It makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot 472 00:28:01,559 --> 00:28:03,720 of sense. I think people will take a lesson going okay, 473 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,119 I'm all good now, and then they don't practice it. 474 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,400 But they may just want to say, what is it 475 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,559 that I can do without this amount of practice and 476 00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:15,519 still try to improve my game? And I think a 477 00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:19,440 lot of that ends up being talking about next free shot, 478 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:19,920 post shot. 479 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,759 Speaker 2: That's what we're saying. We're seen like remarkable improvements in 480 00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:26,480 players game because and we have like one two day 481 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,720 golf school that is it's only on course. We don't 482 00:28:30,759 --> 00:28:33,079 even go on the range more than warm up. And 483 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,039 it's for those players that never practice anyways. All they 484 00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:39,400 do is maybe warm up and they play. So let's 485 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,119 do a golf school where we just meet that reality 486 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,000 and help them how to steal advance to golf games. 487 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: So what is the difference between warming up and practicing? 488 00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 2: It's a big, big difference. Warming Up is just to 489 00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:58,880 warm up and be ready to play the play that day. 490 00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:02,400 In a practice is usually to improve some skills. 491 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:02,039 Speaker 1: And. 492 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: I don't want to spend my time doing that when 493 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,440 I'm warming up. I want to do things that create confidence, 494 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,720 you know. So warming up is you know today obviously 495 00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:14,880 for many to stretch and warm up the body. But 496 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,680 then you know, we always like offers too, because our 497 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,240 bodies are different every day, depending on how slap potter eight, 498 00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:25,599 what I've been doing working out not working out. I mean, 499 00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:29,839 our bodies are always variable. So to hit some shots 500 00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:32,920 to making sure my balance is good if I hit 501 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,720 two feet together or you know, one foot, but just 502 00:29:35,759 --> 00:29:40,720 to access balance, and I hit some shots with slower tempo, 503 00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:44,200 medium temper, faster temple, just to see what temple like 504 00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:47,200 is functional today, because some days my body is more 505 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,920 tired and I need to like calm it down. Other 506 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,839 days I'm totally alert, my body is sharp back and 507 00:29:54,839 --> 00:29:58,079 swing faster. So it's a lot of calibration and making 508 00:29:58,119 --> 00:30:00,880 sure my attention level is good. So my warm up 509 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,759 is more about calibrating and getting my body in mind 510 00:30:05,839 --> 00:30:08,920 ready for playing the game of golf. It's not about 511 00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:12,400 improving skills, and it's not about like how hit it 512 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,319 on the range is going to decide I'm going to 513 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,400 hit it on the course because everybody knows it who 514 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,960 has played golf long enough. I can hit it extremely 515 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,680 well and warm up, and then I go to the 516 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,200 first tea and it's like it's gone, or the opposite 517 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,240 that I feel like not good at all on the 518 00:30:32,319 --> 00:30:35,039 range and suddenly comes together on the course. So it's 519 00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:38,359 like no indication anyways for what's going to happen. So 520 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,799 it's about finding my best way to just warm up 521 00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:45,519 and create confidence. There's the only thing that matters and 522 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:46,079 warm up. 523 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: Have you had a chance to see TGL I have 524 00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:59,839 done it a little bit, I have. What do you think, Well. 525 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,119 Speaker 2: I think I think it's really you know, fun. I 526 00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:06,200 like real, real, real golf, and like major competitions more. 527 00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:08,680 But I think this is But. 528 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,599 Speaker 1: That's also a long, major time commitment too to watch 529 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:14,079 and play. 530 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's you know, it's been really 531 00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:18,400 really fun great. 532 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, but so with actual playing and watching it, there's 533 00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:25,880 been a lot of controversy about pace of play lately 534 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,240 in comments any suggestions. 535 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, we yeah, actually a lot because it's something 536 00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:36,839 you know, we've cared about for decades and every golf 537 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,880 school what every player focus on, and so actually put 538 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,039 together a pdf last week and we send out to 539 00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:48,799 coaches and magazine because I send it to you later on. Yes, 540 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,519 because we think sometimes when they focus on they focus 541 00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:58,160 mostly on how we can you know, restrict times over 542 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,319 the shots and time for the round and all of that. 543 00:32:01,359 --> 00:32:03,599 But we think it has to do with coaches need 544 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:08,279 to pay more attention to players' routines to be sustainable, 545 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,839 and I think that is just skipped over. So care 546 00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:15,960 about it a lot. We did one interview with Golf 547 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,519 Global Golf Post about it and with golf dot com too, 548 00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:24,759 because they knew that we have been coaching the pace 549 00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:26,400 of play and cared about it for a long, long 550 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:26,880 long time. 551 00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: M hm. And on TGL they have that forty second 552 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:30,559 shot clock. 553 00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:32,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good. 554 00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: It's really good. 555 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:33,559 Speaker 2: Yeah. 556 00:32:33,599 --> 00:32:37,359 Speaker 1: And it adds pressure yeah, which is great, awesome. Yeah. 557 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,880 I mean I've watched every episode so far and the 558 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,200 only time that the shot clock has been come into 559 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,240 play is Tiger putting. It was one time he just 560 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,480 let it lapse, which was pretty wonderful to see him. 561 00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:56,799 I've loved watching Tiger because he's really been vulnerable during it. 562 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:02,559 So that's been phenomenal. So you've got a new series 563 00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:09,480 of books Between Shots, which joins Signature Swing and performance routine. 564 00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:16,119 Between Shots is the new one, right, yes, can you define? 565 00:33:18,359 --> 00:33:21,640 You know there's an element in there of manage your body, 566 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:27,920 manage your mind, manage your emotions, and then the variability. 567 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,559 Let's pick them up a little bit at a time. Here, 568 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,359 start with manage your body. 569 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,759 Speaker 2: Yeah and yeah, first one to say, you know, with 570 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,839 the books you mentioned now, the main reason we did 571 00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:42,640 it is because our big published books, you know, we've 572 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,960 been fortunate, they've been going so well. But there is 573 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,079 so much material that we couldn't include to make it 574 00:33:49,119 --> 00:33:52,160 an easy read book, and the many exercises we couldn't 575 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,319 include because it doesn't fit into a book like that. 576 00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:58,400 So we decided to self publish this. We call them 577 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,559 training books where we can just include those that want 578 00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:04,400 to deep dive into think fox, playbox, memory box. Okay, 579 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,400 here we got everything we know about this and all 580 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,320 the exercises we know and for balanced temple and tension 581 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,960 the same thing. So the between shot is and I 582 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,559 think it's an area that many golfers haven't really even 583 00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:20,840 thought about because and you can't really practice it on 584 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,119 the range. But you know, in golf, we spend three 585 00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:28,559 and a half plus hours between shots, so it's a 586 00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:30,920 lot of time that that time can either help you 587 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:37,000 play better or it really hurts your game. And we 588 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:39,639 say like between shots and the things that matter is 589 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,920 that I make sure I spend enough time recharging so 590 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,360 I can keep the focus for eighteen holes, and that 591 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,440 I also make myself ready for the next time I'm 592 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,800 going to hit the golf shot. And the third area 593 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,039 is that we're always going to be variable. We're never 594 00:34:57,079 --> 00:35:01,360 going to be consistent as a human being playing the 595 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,480 game of golf. So there is can be veriability that 596 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,880 suddenly I get tight and tense because it's windy, or 597 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,400 or you know, I'm thinking too much about work right now, 598 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,679 so I'm all scattered suddenly on the backside, I mean, 599 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,280 there always can be variability. So between shots, is this 600 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,840 time to actually be more aware of is there anything 601 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,800 I need to manage right now? Am I getting irritated 602 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,400 because pace of play is slow? Or you know, you 603 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,119 need to have a little awareness so you can become 604 00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:35,880 a better player and you can like bounce back and 605 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,159 you might look more consistent because you manage the variability. 606 00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:44,360 So we think it's like a huge area to just 607 00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:47,039 find a few things that that can really really help me. 608 00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:49,519 So I just want to give that overview first. 609 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,519 Speaker 1: Good, Now let's talk about managing your body. 610 00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, so then when it comes to the body, we 611 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,760 know and if you play golf and go on the 612 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,559 golf court, can guarantee you you can be tighten your hips. 613 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,039 Sitting in the golf court so many between shots, they 614 00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:09,039 might know, you know, having three holes or six holes, 615 00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:11,280 I need to do a little stretching or losing up 616 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,039 or being aware of I've been sitting a lot now 617 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,800 waiting on the tea box of other players. I need 618 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,239 to know do I need to loosen my shoulders some 619 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:21,960 or do I need to do this for my hips. 620 00:36:22,039 --> 00:36:25,199 You need to have some awareness of how do I 621 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,079 keep my body athletic through the round of golf even 622 00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:32,199 though I might be standing still or sitting still. And 623 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,239 another thing with the body is that it's common. It's 624 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,360 like my adrenaline level. You know, sometimes I can get 625 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,480 so worked up because maybe I'm on my way to 626 00:36:41,519 --> 00:36:45,880 the lowest round ever, or the opposite, I'm super sluggish 627 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,960 because it's slow places early in the morning, so you 628 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,440 know what, I need to walk a little peppier here. 629 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,079 Maybe it's geography a little bit, or I might do 630 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,679 need the opposite. I need to take deep breath and 631 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,599 calm myself down because I'm just too you work it 632 00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:03,840 up in my body. So, I mean, there's so many things. Obviously, 633 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,920 the obvious thing is, you know what are you drinking 634 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,280 and eating between shots to keep that energy level? So 635 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,760 I was going to bring that up depending on like 636 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,519 your level of golf and your ambition in golf, the 637 00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:20,480 between the shots. If I'm only playing golf because I 638 00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:23,760 don't care about performance and I'm only here to have 639 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,119 fun with my friends, and maybe you don't need to 640 00:37:26,159 --> 00:37:30,400 do anything. But if I care about playing well, you 641 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,840 should just look into you know what is something that 642 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,320 actually helps my body stay athletic and be good for 643 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,480 all eighteen holes. 644 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,119 Speaker 1: That's an excellent point. It's about if you care or not, 645 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,920 because you know there are people out there who they're 646 00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:46,719 they're not focused on their hydration, they're not focused on 647 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,320 the nutrition. They're drinking coffee and dehydrating, they're drinking alcohol 648 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:57,599 and really not paying attention. But it's for those podcasts 649 00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:00,719 for people who would listen to podcasts about this, they 650 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,840 care about this. Yeah, exactly. 651 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's that's beauty of the game that we can 652 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,199 have so many different like we call the spirit of 653 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,239 the game, the reason you play the game. Those that 654 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,800 part of playing the game is that I want to 655 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,119 be a good performer. Then it's good to check in 656 00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:17,719 on us. 657 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,159 Speaker 1: And then you have managed the mind and managed the emotions. 658 00:38:21,159 --> 00:38:24,320 Those are two you have was listed as different elements. 659 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:25,719 Can you explain why? 660 00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the mind for us is more you know, 661 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,079 the the both the cognitive parties. Am I thinking too 662 00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:34,760 far in the future? Am I focusing on the past? 663 00:38:35,559 --> 00:38:38,840 Am I like scattered? Or am I totally focusing on 664 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,719 only my shot? Or do I still focus about who 665 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,880 is watching me? So it's managing that, you know, direction 666 00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:50,480 on my mind and if I can stay focused during 667 00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:53,679 the whole swing and so between shots, it would be 668 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,440 for many. I mean some have a tendency I can 669 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,719 have that I can easily go too far in the future, 670 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,880 like ooh, my irons better. There are a couple of 671 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,840 power fource it's going to be tough coming up and like, ah, 672 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:05,840 bring yourself back. 673 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:07,559 Speaker 1: You even get caught up in that. 674 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, just feel your feet walking here now, and you know, 675 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,199 I'll look at the trees and get yourself back depresent 676 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,599 or you know, some hang out in the past all 677 00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:18,119 the time, like why why did I miss that put? 678 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,800 Or you know that's an easy wed shot in so 679 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,239 you're just wasting energy. So it's just doing some exercise 680 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,440 and being aware of like am I good at being 681 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,400 in charge of where my mind is? And if you're 682 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,719 going to be a peak performer in golf, it's a 683 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,320 good thing because between shots it conspiral to really bad stuff, 684 00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:41,559 you know, being irritated other players, very irritated with you know, 685 00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:45,719 all kinds of stuff. So emotions is more like am 686 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,639 I feeling calm and peaceful and confident or am I 687 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:55,320 anxious frustrated? It's it's you know, the emotions, and sometimes 688 00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,159 emotions come from the thoughts I have, And sometimes I 689 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,719 just get emotions because I have a memory of missing 690 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,159 this shot last week at the same spot, and the 691 00:40:08,199 --> 00:40:10,880 emotions start and then it triggers thoughts. So it's just 692 00:40:12,199 --> 00:40:16,719 knowing that if I have too much negative emotions between shots, 693 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,679 and it's so good to learn from science. I'm going 694 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,719 to lose access to a lot of my abilities. It's 695 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,000 just we go more to fight and flight and I 696 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,760 don't and I can't afford that. Am I going to 697 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,320 be a good performer? So it's recognized and I'm getting frustrated, irritated. Okay, 698 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,280 I'm going to go to getting myself to a commerce 699 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:45,000 state or whatever, more confident state and use my body 700 00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:48,079 maybe to help me and manage that. Because the emotions 701 00:40:48,159 --> 00:40:50,960 is going to fluctuate. I just need to figure out 702 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,519 what is it that makes me play really awesome. 703 00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:58,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing that I see creeping into both the 704 00:40:58,199 --> 00:41:00,880 mind element and the emotions element is pace of play, 705 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,000 which we talked about a little bit. But how does 706 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,960 slow pace of play affect the amateur golfer? And then 707 00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:14,159 what's the cure to not let it bother you? 708 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 2: Well, you know, some slow play doesn't affect them at all, 709 00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:19,199 Because he said, I'm only playing with my friends, and 710 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,599 I like this golf course and I paid a lot 711 00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:23,719 of money to play it, so I wanted to take 712 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:29,920 six hours. You know, they're probably nobody does, but anyway, 713 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,280 so you know it does because if you play with 714 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,440 plays that you feel are very very slow, it can 715 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,679 get you really irritated. You know, you start having all 716 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,599 the self talk and emotions and it's going to get 717 00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:44,840 your body tight, or you can start rushing and making 718 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,960 up for them being slow. I mean that happens a 719 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,519 lot all the time. So I think every golfer needs 720 00:41:52,559 --> 00:41:57,079 to know how long time their routine takes the preparation. 721 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,639 Think box in the playbox. I think it's really important. 722 00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:02,880 And you know, we have a goal to keep it 723 00:42:03,159 --> 00:42:06,920 thirty seconds in under and it's just that the time 724 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,039 that the LPGA is used for a long time that 725 00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:12,199 you have an average of thirty seconds per shot, and 726 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,960 I don't think we need more than that. But many today, 727 00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:22,440 especially think box because of so much more technology that 728 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:27,519 there's so many ways of measuring the distance. You know, 729 00:42:27,679 --> 00:42:29,800 you might have it on your watch, you might have 730 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,039 you know, your bush and hel glasses, you have sprinkler heads, 731 00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:35,159 you have screens in your cart. They can be like 732 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,760 a cillion different ways of doing that. And there are 733 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,000 many systems how to check green reading and all of 734 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,920 these things. But then players to and players try to 735 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,519 do all of that all the time, and it's like 736 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,199 it doesn't work, it's not sustainable because they usually lose 737 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,280 access to their own instinct and feel over time because 738 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,320 there's so much up in the numbers. 739 00:42:59,119 --> 00:42:59,199 Speaker 1: And. 740 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,679 Speaker 2: They get you know, you get tired and done basically. 741 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,199 But we don't know anyone who wants to be slow. 742 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,159 They have just never been aware of it or coached 743 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,440 how to do it different so they can so they 744 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,440 can be more efficient, but also play as good or 745 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,519 better doing it in a more simplified way. For example, 746 00:43:22,519 --> 00:43:25,679 we we can have many that you know, there we 747 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,079 go on the golf course and they start having you know, 748 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,679 two three four practice wings. We never saw that on 749 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,639 the range, but suddenly on the course and they do 750 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,519 two three four practice wings. So you know, I after 751 00:43:35,599 --> 00:43:38,679 one whole used to ask cluck, okay, so what's the 752 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,960 intention for those practice wings? And then depending on the answer, 753 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,000 just try to help them sort it out and how 754 00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:50,559 can you actually accomplish that in one And you know, 755 00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:54,880 we usually say if they're player shooting ninety, you know, 756 00:43:55,519 --> 00:43:58,719 if you also make three practice wing, that's ninety plus 757 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,599 two hundred and seventy. It's a lot of swingings anyway, 758 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,360 So but they haven't thought about that, or some think 759 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,320 a practice swing it needs to be perfect before I 760 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,440 can move on, And like that belief is like never good. 761 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,920 But what I'm saying is, this is this area that 762 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,280 most golfers haven't really reflected on and they haven't had 763 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,480 any coaching to help them sort it out and make 764 00:44:21,559 --> 00:44:25,760 it more functional on the golf course. So I think 765 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,880 it's really really important. And I said, like, let's try 766 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,079 for three holes. You know, you can get a feed 767 00:44:30,119 --> 00:44:32,320 for the swing and move your body, but let's just 768 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,400 not do in the practice swings. Just you see what 769 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,840 it would be like. And then some discover like, wow, 770 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,679 I like that better, or some realize that no, yeah, 771 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,519 it's good, but I just want something a little bit. 772 00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:44,679 So we just need to work it out. 773 00:44:45,559 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that if you start practicing your 774 00:44:48,559 --> 00:44:54,360 own think box playbox that you don't need as long 775 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,239 as you do it consistently, you shouldn't have to be 776 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,599 self conscious about feeling like you're holding up the because 777 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,760 if they see you're doing your routine on the first 778 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,880 second hal you know, first four or five shots, that's 779 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,679 your rhythm and you don't have to be self conscious 780 00:45:10,679 --> 00:45:14,320 about it, people will like start accepting it's like okay, 781 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:15,599 that's his pace of play. 782 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 2: Well as as long as it doesn't take too. 783 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,199 Speaker 1: Long Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. 784 00:45:20,199 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 2: But I want another thing about the routine that is 785 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,320 really important for us. Sure, the only thing that matters 786 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,760 about this we talk about the pre shot routine now, 787 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,079 is that I made a decision and I have an 788 00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:40,039 internal go signal whatever that is. So that's what's important. 789 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,840 It's not that I always do the exact same outer routine, 790 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,840 because what I'm saying is like I normally don't make 791 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,559 practice wing, but if I have like a shot around 792 00:45:50,559 --> 00:45:53,320 the green, or I'm going to have a certain lie, 793 00:45:53,519 --> 00:45:56,719 i might make a practice wing whatever to get the field, 794 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,400 but it's just to get the go signal. So I 795 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,039 can have a structure, but it is with flexibility because 796 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,280 what I'm saying this is because we can have many 797 00:46:07,559 --> 00:46:09,800 more lead players that have been taught. If they do 798 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:14,920 the same exact routine from the outside looking, it's always 799 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,840 going to work. And we know that's not true because 800 00:46:19,679 --> 00:46:24,159 it's what you feel inside that needs to be feel 801 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,119 really awesome, like I got this. I know what I'm doing, 802 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,599 and I feel what I'm doing. I'm ready to go. 803 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,400 So sometimes that can happen in different ways. But if 804 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,360 I still feel like I still need to step off 805 00:46:36,639 --> 00:46:39,079 this Pat, I still need to do practice wing because 806 00:46:39,079 --> 00:46:42,840 I'm supposed to. I might I might be too late. 807 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,000 I lost that go signal. 808 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,119 Speaker 1: You mentioned a few minutes ago that your books, these 809 00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:55,760 three books in this series are self published. Where can 810 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:56,400 we find. 811 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,199 Speaker 2: Them on Amazon or Buns and Noble. 812 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: Great. Oh so it's not just on your website, but 813 00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:05,800 it is available at Amazon and then the website Vision fifty 814 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,880 four dot com. You got it, and check out the schools. 815 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,559 If you want some of the best instruction the world 816 00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:16,000 has to offer, you should definitely check out Vision fifty 817 00:47:16,039 --> 00:47:21,880 four because Lynn and Pia are superheroes in the game 818 00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:24,760 of Game Improvement World. 819 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,320 Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's really nice of you. 820 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you again. It's great to talk to you, 821 00:47:31,639 --> 00:47:34,079 and it's always a joy to talk to you, and 822 00:47:34,159 --> 00:47:36,320 I really value your time. Thank you so much. 823 00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:38,760 Speaker 2: Thank you Fred, Thanks for all you do for the game.