Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: My name is Darren Chackman.
Speaker 1: I currently live in Penalula, but I'm from Los Angeles
and I'm playing at Rooster Run today.
Speaker 2: My favorite course.
Speaker 1: This is Golf Smarter episode nine hundred and ninety five.
Speaker 2: Warming up is just to warm up and be ready
to play that day. Practice is usually to improve some skills.
I don't want to spend my time doing that when
I'm warming up. I want to do things that create confidence,
but just to access balance, and I hit some shots
with slower tempo, medium temple, faster temple, just to see
what temple like is functional today because some days my
body is more tired and I need to calm it down.
Other days I'm totally alert. My body's sharp back and
swing faster, so it's a lot of calibration. My warm
up is more about calibrating and getting my body and
mind ready for playing the game of off. It's not
about improving skills, and it's not about like how hit
it on the range is going to decide how I'm
going to hit it on the course. Everybody know who's
played golf long enough, I can hit it extremely well
and warm up and then I go to the first
tee and it's gone or the opposite that I feel
like not good at all on the range and suddenly
comes together on the course. So it's like no indication
anyways for what's going to happen. It's about finding my
best way to just warm up and create confidence.
Speaker 1: Decision making the key to better Smarter golf With Vision
fifty four's Ian Neilson. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories,
tips and insights from great golf minds to help you
lower your score and raise your golf IQ.
Speaker 2: There's your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast.
Speaker 2: Pia, Hi Fred, Nice to talk to you again.
Speaker 1: It's been so great and we've had this relationship going
since two thousand and seven, late two thousand and seven,
like before episode one hundred, so here we are approaching
one thousand. You were episode ninety eight and Lynn was
ninety seven, and it's just a great honor to have
you both appearing on the show and sharing your insights
and advice. Greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Fred, and thanks for all you do
for the game here as many years of doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a nice contribution that I feel like
I've been able to make you know, one of the
in the earliest show you guys, you said something that
not only have I been quoting probably every round of
golf that I play with people, but I used it yesterday,
and that would be the think box and playbox. Although
I don't know how I caught it to be the
thought box and shot box Oka, but it kind of works.
You know, you can go on either one. I want
to where am I going with it? So there's a
third element to that, the memory box, which I don't
remember at all, but I think we should go over it.
I think it's something that every golfer needs to understand
to help them get into a better mindset before they
hit the ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And as you said, we call it the
think box and playbox, but it doesn't really matter what
words you use as long as oh what the purpose
of it is. And it was because we found so
many golfers step up over the shot and they're still thinking, preparing,
wondering if they have the right club or where's the
wind coming from, And we just wanted to make that
distinction that before golf shot you can think, you can
think about the target and where you're going and what
kind of shot you're going to hit that you need
to be like done, you need to have made a decision,
and then stepping up and being more athletic and you know, feel.
So it's the separation of preparation and then the performance
piece because in golfers in general, because it hasn't been trained,
can be so messy. So it is about the future
of the shot, the think box, and then the present
when actually executing, where no thinking cognitive thoughts is going
to help you. But then we for many years we
had that, and then we would also golf schools and
coach and talk about the post shot reaction because it's
so important how you choose to react two shots, for
how much confidence you're going to feel and momentum for
the round. But it was kind of separate. But then
we realized that's kind of silly because it's this three
faces to every shot.
Speaker 1: You have it before a.
Speaker 2: Shot, you have it during the shot, you have the
after the shot. How we actually deal with what just happened.
So we just decided it's better put those together. It's
the think box, playbox, memory box, and that's your your
routine for every golf shot, and it to explore and
find what is best for me to do in those
three timeframes.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a perfect explanation. I mean I want to
ask why, but it should be obvious. The golfers, amateur
golfers especially, need to get a good rhythm pre during,
and post shot. Why why is that important?
Speaker 2: Well? Why it's important because you know, you have a
golf shot and you only have the one golf shot
you have is the only golf shot. I mean you
only have one drive off number one hopefully, but I
mean a shot is unique. You know, you don't like
your range, I can just see it another one and whatever.
You have only have one chance. I mean, you have
one shot, and they're all so different in our game
because I'm on the golf course. It goes from two
hundred and twenty yards to fifteen yard pitch shot to putt.
I mean, it's that variability. So you need to actually
make a decision for every shot in golf because every
shot you hit you in the around is going to
be different. So a decision that you commit to needs
to be made. And it seems obvious, but many have
just skipped that part. Yeah, and then and then of course,
like you know, golf is a game and anyone who
is going to perform, well, it doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, golf, tennis, whatever.
While you're performing, you're more athletic, like you see the
target or you feel something in emotion, you know, longer
preparing you actually in the moment. But because in golf
the ball is sitting still waiting for us, many start
overthinking all the ball absolutely, and so that's why it's
so important to figure out, you know, what I do
best when I just feel that calm tempo when I'm
over the ball, or you know what I do best
when I do still have an image of the target
over the ball, or no, what I do best when
I just sense that constant gret pressure. So you need
to figure out what helps me that isn't like working
on a swing change, but playing with the swing I
got right now and have the best field or sense
that for the golf shot.
Speaker 1: When I look at a scorecard after the round and
I see the holes that were issues that contributed to
a higher score than I had hoped for, I noticed that,
you know, there's definitely going to be shots in there
that aren't exactly what I had hoped to accomplish. But
that doesn't bother me that that happens to every golfer
at every level. What I see in my scorecard, the
higher numbers, it's like I made a bad decision. That's
what stands out to me, is like, see, I just
I shouldn't have tried to be a hero in this shot.
I should have you know, I should have taken an
extra club. I didn't consider the wind. I didn't consider
the uphill downhill or even how heavy the air is,
and I made mistakes at that end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's like after the round, is it's really
good to just have a little reflection time, like in
your case there, Like what is the learning here? You know?
Is it that I'm you know, always go to I
mean too often to the pin or my routine before
the shot. I don't check the wind enough. I mean,
that's really want to do the reflection after the round?
How can I get better at this in the future.
Speaker 1: So there's the post shot routine and the post round routine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely what.
Speaker 1: Are the things that we need to think about? I mean,
why can't I recognize that in my post shot routine
of like that was a bad decision?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, The thing is that if you start
to analyze after every shot, you're going to exhaust yourself.
You know, it's just has to be too much, and
like one shot is not a trend, so you know.
So some players can say, you know, just after the shot,
you know, okay, it went in you know whatever in
the rough and you know, I didn't consider the wind,
and then they leave it as such and they move on.
So some can do it because they do is do
it easily. But some gets into this too much analyzed
and thinking while you have a shot to hit in
one minute, you know. So it's that's where we want
to explore, and we don't have one way of doing it.
It depends on a little bit how you are and
how you play on the course. What is best to
do after a golf shot? But too much analysis save
that after the run.
Speaker 1: Right over, analysis leads to paralysis. I guess what they say.
So tell me give me an update on what's going
on with Vision fifty four down in Scottsdale. You're talking to.
Speaker 2: Golf course, Yes we are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we have been for quite a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we were first like eleven years at
the Legacy Golf Course here in Phoenix and then now
we're like twelve or thirteen years at Talking Stick, so
it's work great, and we like to do a lot
of our coaching on the course and we have thirty
six holes there, so it's really good. But anyway, so
it's doing very well, and we have all kinds of
different programs for different golfers. But it still amazes us
that it's not as common yet to teach and coach
the non technical skills of the game. But we feel
through our books and now we've created more training books
and the interest among other coaches that things are happening
because I think we, along with so many other teachers
and coaches, we care about growing the game and making
golfers play better, and we just want the view of
playing better to be wide enough that of course we
need to keep developing the technical skills and so I
can hit the bunker shops the way I want to,
or put well, or hit it further and all of that,
but there still is a process of playing the game
that often get dismissed or not focused on, and we
just think it's too bad. So we just want the
fundamentals to be wide enough so if I improve my swing.
I still know how to play on the golf course
when I only have one try and I need to
make a decision, and I need to trust my decision,
and I need to be athletic, and you know, so
it belongs to the golf fundamentals to learn both the
technical and non technical. And we keep on going. Now
we've done it for a few decades, but just doing
what we can to shift that paradigm so everybody can
see it that way, because I don't know anyone who
can disagree with that there is a process to play
the game on the course.
Speaker 1: You said that you like to give lessons on the
course as opposed to just hitting off of the driving range.
We talk about this a lot on this show, have
been for decades, and that is that there's a big
difference between hitting balls and playing golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like two different sports.
Speaker 1: It really is. It really is, because when you're hitting balls,
generally you're hitting its flat. It's you know, if you're
hitting on grass, there's probably a lot of sand anyway,
because the way they have to refurbish the grass all
the time redo it. But why is it that you
prefer to give your lessons on the course you know,
in course lessons versus just strictly arranged lessons.
Speaker 2: Well, because the whole point is for everybody who comes
to see us is that they want to play better
and some even enjoy it more so, and we know
how a golfer hits on the range. There's really no
indication how they hit it on the golf course, so
we are so much more interested in how is there swing,
how is their stroke? What happens on the golf course,
and when we know that, then we can make more
sense of what to do on the practice area. But
you know, even the first day at our golf school,
we don't go on the golf course in the afternoon,
and we're really careful to keep our mouth shut and
not say anything about their swing and before we've actually
seen it in action on the golf course. And so
it's just like it's kind of a reality check that
the truth is what happens on the golf course. So
if I am a coach of the game of golf,
I need to observe them on the golf course. So
on the golf course, it could be observing what they
do and see what's good and what can be better
from the technique to you know, how they make decisions
and how they stay focused to the finished Very few
on the golf course, it was just a few. It's
very common on the golf course that the swing gets
abrupted because they're so into the outcome, which doesn't happen
on the range because it means more so, you know,
and how they act after the shot, and you know,
all these things, their pace of play. You know, it's
really important for us too. So the reality happens out
there and we want to be coaches to help them,
and then that helps us what to do when we practice,
and sometimes we go out and they get to explore. Okay,
let's try three different things to do in your think
box to see which one you like, or let's try
a couple different things in the playbox so they get
to discover, like this works for me, this doesn't work
for me. And being on the golf course is totally
different than being on the pudding green or the range
because it's more perceived pressure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, another huge advancement that we've had in over the
decades that we've been doing, these golf simulators have become
very very popular, to the point where we now have
a professional level Golf Simulator League TGL, which I'm a
huge fan of. But how does that impact your instruction
because people are playing core I'm using air quotes for courses,
but they're hitting into a screen from a flat spot
like hitting in the range.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I think it's awesome because it's closer
to the real thing. You know, it's you know, it's
still not obviously the same. You don't have the breaks
between shots, and many times you see them in simulators
and they kind of skip over the think box, and
you know they're still most evaluating performance, they're not evaluating
the process. But through the simulators you can do a
lot more good practice and good learning. But you still
need to know what to look for if you're going
to coach them through the simulators, not just where the
ball went or how whatever the trajector and all that
just couldn't see behind.
Speaker 1: That, right, Well, it's also giving you most simulators, especially
things like track Man and all these other advances here,
they're giving you a lot of data, a lot of
information about the ball itself and what it's doing, where
it's going. Is that helped you or is that something
that's just an added Is it an added bonus or
is it an added distraction?
Speaker 2: Both? Well, I think that got a lot of you
all this awesome technology is like, it's brilliantly good because
we're not guessing anymore. We actually get real number of
repacts objective that yes, and we also have to remember
there's an outer reality and inner reality. So what we
find those that overuse it today? I mean, if you
have juniors that have used it too much. For example,
we can be on the golf course, I ask them, okay,
tell me the distance to the flag without looking at technology,
and they can't see the difference between fifteen hundred and
twenty yards because they haven't even they have never needed
to train their senses. So if they can be really
really good player, it's about art and science. So the
technology is great as long as I still learn to
know what does it actually mean to trust a golf shot?
What does it still mean to sense a temple? Because
sensing a temper is an internal experience that I need
to know and not just base it on numbers from
the outside. Or if I want to be super focused
and totally zero in visualize my ballflight to target, it's
like an inner experience. So technology is great. Is still
as long as I still honor this the inner skills
that is needed that are more subjective. So if I
have a balance of both, it's really good. But many
today only go towards technique and technology and dismiss the
other part, and then it's never going to be optimal.
Speaker 1: Since you guys have started coaching, and you were really,
I don't want to say, you were the first, but
highest profile to integrate the whole mind body connection into golf,
you know, the mental elements of it, the thinking part
of it, into just swing mechanics where we come from
Ben Hogan's book and we're just talking about the mechanics,
and then it started to evolve into mental games, and
then you know, podcasting started happening and we're talking about
the mental game a lot here and others as well.
How has that evolved since you've been coaching the mind
body connection element or was it always there and just
didn't talk about it much?
Speaker 2: Well, I think for the greatest players, has always been
there but never talked about because it's not as obvious
and you can't like measure it and you can't like
see it on the screen. So I think among the
great coaches and great players. He's been there, But then
we've been led to believe that it's only the outer
view and taken that really matters. But I think so
much has happened, but sometimes I feel they can still
be too separate. Okay, here's my technical coach, and then
I have this mental coach to help me. But sometimes
they're just too separate. I think we in God, as
golf coaches golf teachers, we need to honor that big picture.
So the golfers from the beginning always get to mixture. Okay,
we can work on this. You know. I want you
at home, in front of you a mirror, to work
on these positions and these drills. But you know, when
you go and play golf, we want to help you
with with you know, how you can make a decision,
the feel you can have during your swing, and so
we like integrate it into anything we're doing. And that
integration is not as solid today yet.
Speaker 1: Are you and Lynn as coaching partners and business partners.
Do you each have your own specialty or you each
cover both the mental and the physical side of playing golf,
or one focuses more on the other.
Speaker 2: Well, I know I would I would say we you know,
we totally have one hundred percent in the same vision
and beliefs about what we're doing and what we think
the future needs, and we reflect and talk about it
a lot because we want to you know, probably Lynn
is my biggest critiquer and you know, question what we're
doing and meet to her. So we have that. But
then I came originally more from the background as a player,
having played on tour and all of that, and Lynn
has an even stronger background as a technical teacher, So
our original background is a little bit different like that,
even though Lena has still played a lot and I've
you know, since then, also have PGA education technical education,
so we like Lin has done more in the past
club fitting that I have, So we come from a
different little different background and when we you know, when
we but when we coach and the things we developed
so we can know that someplace it's going to listen
stronger to learn in some place, but listen stronger to me.
So we just need to have no ego involved with that.
And realizing that that we have two voices and we
have other coaches too, that we have more voices to
the same message makes it even better. But we couldn't
function as a as a company and with a clear
philosophy if we didn't one hundred percent agree on what
we're doing and how we're doing it.
Speaker 1: So, speaking of philosophy, explain why the company is called
Vision fifty four.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. Actually when we started our company we
call it Coaching for the Future, and still our incorporated name,
and because it was coaching for the future, but then
many thought we only did coach training. So when the
fifty four comes from when I, in another lifetime was
head of our Swedish national teams and we started this
fifty four thinking because many of those Swedish players at
that time had very limiting beliefs about what they can
do in the future, being from this cold weather country
and so far behind so many nations. So the fifty
four realizing to get them to be like a little
bit more believing in the future, we asked them, okay,
on your home course, the best score in each hole?
What have you shot? And actually some have made birders
in every hole at one time or another, So we
just brought it up as a future possibility. What would
it take in the future during the same around, Just
let's say it would be possible. So how do you
need to swing, how do you need to train, how
fit you need to be? We just start going if
you know, we believe it could happen. We don't know
which which centuries can happen, doesn't matter. We just think
it's humanly possible and let's go towards that. And it's
very good for us coaches to because who do we
need to be and what do we need to know
to support that process. So the vision fifty four is
just it's not about being disappointed if I don't shoot
fifty four. It's about it's about believing and possibilities and
going for it. So it's it's it's changed our whole culture.
And you know, obviously anic A certains Time is one
of the famous one who was part of when we
start first started this, and she always had that in
the back of her mind striving towards that. And she
was the first woman and it's the first woman to
have ever shot fifty nine.
Speaker 1: So maybe amazing. No, you wouldn't be disappointed like shooting
fifty four, but shooting fifty five any golfer, you know,
I just missed that one pot I could have had
a fifty But I only had a fifty five. It's
just the nature of golfer, isn't it as it.
Speaker 2: Is fifty four? Said tarn It. I could have made
an ego there on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Have you seen any of what Bryson
Deshamba has done on YouTube with his break fifty series?
Speaker 2: No, I haven't.
Speaker 1: Actually do you know about it? Are you familiar with it?
Speaker 2: I mean a little bit?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, where he goes and he'll play. I love
this concept. Instead of competing against my friends, it's like,
let's team up, right, and what he does is he
gets somebody, they play the front ties and they try
to break fifty right, and you know, with Bryson's length
and accuracy, they get close, but they I don't think
they've done it yet. I think it's very entertaining, and
I've told my friends, I said, let's do this instead
of competing this week, let's partner up, play from a
different tea box, closer tea box, and see if we
could shoot par Yeah, I know, combine our scores and
see if we could we just shoot par and if
we do, then let's try to break seventy. Let's you know,
it's like set that goal i'll see a team.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I super like it, and it gives so
much more positivity outlook in playing the game that I
think is really healthy.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So how is the state of the game
from your perspective? These days? We'll say, let's start with
amateur play and we'll go from there. But what is
the state of the game from your perspective?
Speaker 2: I think you know, it's growing a really healthy way.
But I feel like because of the growth in technology
and tech knowledge about technique and the body swing connection
which is advanced a lot, but we also get many
that they get higher level of confusion because we look
at the amateurs, so we call it the real golfers
of the game. They get all these suggestions through technology
and technique, but most amateurs they understand that, but they
honestly don't have time to actually practice to make changes
that are suggested. And they keep saying, oh, yeah, I'm
going to do it, But the bottom line is that
they have jobs, have families that have other things. So
many go about things that are accurate, but it's not
realistic they're going to make those changes and get it
to function on the golf course because they don't have
enough they don't have the time that the professional player
has to make that happen. So I think it's really
important to be honest about that. If I don't have
those hours to make the changes needed, what can I
still do to my game to play better?
Speaker 1: It makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot
of sense. I think people will take a lesson going okay,
I'm all good now, and then they don't practice it.
But they may just want to say, what is it
that I can do without this amount of practice and
still try to improve my game? And I think a
lot of that ends up being talking about next free shot,
post shot.
Speaker 2: That's what we're saying. We're seen like remarkable improvements in
players game because and we have like one two day
golf school that is it's only on course. We don't
even go on the range more than warm up. And
it's for those players that never practice anyways. All they
do is maybe warm up and they play. So let's
do a golf school where we just meet that reality
and help them how to steal advance to golf games.
Speaker 1: So what is the difference between warming up and practicing?
Speaker 2: It's a big, big difference. Warming Up is just to
warm up and be ready to play the play that day.
In a practice is usually to improve some skills.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: I don't want to spend my time doing that when
I'm warming up. I want to do things that create confidence,
you know. So warming up is you know today obviously
for many to stretch and warm up the body. But
then you know, we always like offers too, because our
bodies are different every day, depending on how slap potter eight,
what I've been doing working out not working out. I mean,
our bodies are always variable. So to hit some shots
to making sure my balance is good if I hit
two feet together or you know, one foot, but just
to access balance, and I hit some shots with slower tempo,
medium temper, faster temple, just to see what temple like
is functional today, because some days my body is more
tired and I need to like calm it down. Other
days I'm totally alert, my body is sharp back and
swing faster. So it's a lot of calibration and making
sure my attention level is good. So my warm up
is more about calibrating and getting my body in mind
ready for playing the game of golf. It's not about
improving skills, and it's not about like how hit it
on the range is going to decide I'm going to
hit it on the course because everybody knows it who
has played golf long enough. I can hit it extremely
well and warm up, and then I go to the
first tea and it's like it's gone, or the opposite
that I feel like not good at all on the
range and suddenly comes together on the course. So it's
like no indication anyways for what's going to happen. So
it's about finding my best way to just warm up
and create confidence. There's the only thing that matters and
warm up.
Speaker 1: Have you had a chance to see TGL I have
done it a little bit, I have. What do you think, Well.
Speaker 2: I think I think it's really you know, fun. I
like real, real, real golf, and like major competitions more.
But I think this is But.
Speaker 1: That's also a long, major time commitment too to watch
and play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's you know, it's been really
really fun great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but so with actual playing and watching it, there's
been a lot of controversy about pace of play lately
in comments any suggestions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, we yeah, actually a lot because it's something
you know, we've cared about for decades and every golf
school what every player focus on, and so actually put
together a pdf last week and we send out to
coaches and magazine because I send it to you later on. Yes,
because we think sometimes when they focus on they focus
mostly on how we can you know, restrict times over
the shots and time for the round and all of that.
But we think it has to do with coaches need
to pay more attention to players' routines to be sustainable,
and I think that is just skipped over. So care
about it a lot. We did one interview with Golf
Global Golf Post about it and with golf dot com too,
because they knew that we have been coaching the pace
of play and cared about it for a long, long
long time.
Speaker 1: M hm. And on TGL they have that forty second
shot clock.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1: It's really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it adds pressure yeah, which is great, awesome. Yeah.
I mean I've watched every episode so far and the
only time that the shot clock has been come into
play is Tiger putting. It was one time he just
let it lapse, which was pretty wonderful to see him.
I've loved watching Tiger because he's really been vulnerable during it.
So that's been phenomenal. So you've got a new series
of books Between Shots, which joins Signature Swing and performance routine.
Between Shots is the new one, right, yes, can you define?
You know there's an element in there of manage your body,
manage your mind, manage your emotions, and then the variability.
Let's pick them up a little bit at a time. Here,
start with manage your body.
Speaker 2: Yeah and yeah, first one to say, you know, with
the books you mentioned now, the main reason we did
it is because our big published books, you know, we've
been fortunate, they've been going so well. But there is
so much material that we couldn't include to make it
an easy read book, and the many exercises we couldn't
include because it doesn't fit into a book like that.
So we decided to self publish this. We call them
training books where we can just include those that want
to deep dive into think fox, playbox, memory box. Okay,
here we got everything we know about this and all
the exercises we know and for balanced temple and tension
the same thing. So the between shot is and I
think it's an area that many golfers haven't really even
thought about because and you can't really practice it on
the range. But you know, in golf, we spend three
and a half plus hours between shots, so it's a
lot of time that that time can either help you
play better or it really hurts your game. And we
say like between shots and the things that matter is
that I make sure I spend enough time recharging so
I can keep the focus for eighteen holes, and that
I also make myself ready for the next time I'm
going to hit the golf shot. And the third area
is that we're always going to be variable. We're never
going to be consistent as a human being playing the
game of golf. So there is can be veriability that
suddenly I get tight and tense because it's windy, or
or you know, I'm thinking too much about work right now,
so I'm all scattered suddenly on the backside, I mean,
there always can be variability. So between shots, is this
time to actually be more aware of is there anything
I need to manage right now? Am I getting irritated
because pace of play is slow? Or you know, you
need to have a little awareness so you can become
a better player and you can like bounce back and
you might look more consistent because you manage the variability.
So we think it's like a huge area to just
find a few things that that can really really help me.
So I just want to give that overview first.
Speaker 1: Good, Now let's talk about managing your body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so then when it comes to the body, we
know and if you play golf and go on the
golf court, can guarantee you you can be tighten your hips.
Sitting in the golf court so many between shots, they
might know, you know, having three holes or six holes,
I need to do a little stretching or losing up
or being aware of I've been sitting a lot now
waiting on the tea box of other players. I need
to know do I need to loosen my shoulders some
or do I need to do this for my hips.
You need to have some awareness of how do I
keep my body athletic through the round of golf even
though I might be standing still or sitting still. And
another thing with the body is that it's common. It's
like my adrenaline level. You know, sometimes I can get
so worked up because maybe I'm on my way to
the lowest round ever, or the opposite, I'm super sluggish
because it's slow places early in the morning, so you
know what, I need to walk a little peppier here.
Maybe it's geography a little bit, or I might do
need the opposite. I need to take deep breath and
calm myself down because I'm just too you work it
up in my body. So, I mean, there's so many things. Obviously,
the obvious thing is, you know what are you drinking
and eating between shots to keep that energy level? So
I was going to bring that up depending on like
your level of golf and your ambition in golf, the
between the shots. If I'm only playing golf because I
don't care about performance and I'm only here to have
fun with my friends, and maybe you don't need to
do anything. But if I care about playing well, you
should just look into you know what is something that
actually helps my body stay athletic and be good for
all eighteen holes.
Speaker 1: That's an excellent point. It's about if you care or not,
because you know there are people out there who they're
they're not focused on their hydration, they're not focused on
the nutrition. They're drinking coffee and dehydrating, they're drinking alcohol
and really not paying attention. But it's for those podcasts
for people who would listen to podcasts about this, they
care about this. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's that's beauty of the game that we can
have so many different like we call the spirit of
the game, the reason you play the game. Those that
part of playing the game is that I want to
be a good performer. Then it's good to check in
on us.
Speaker 1: And then you have managed the mind and managed the emotions.
Those are two you have was listed as different elements.
Can you explain why?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the mind for us is more you know,
the the both the cognitive parties. Am I thinking too
far in the future? Am I focusing on the past?
Am I like scattered? Or am I totally focusing on
only my shot? Or do I still focus about who
is watching me? So it's managing that, you know, direction
on my mind and if I can stay focused during
the whole swing and so between shots, it would be
for many. I mean some have a tendency I can
have that I can easily go too far in the future,
like ooh, my irons better. There are a couple of
power fource it's going to be tough coming up and like, ah,
bring yourself back.
Speaker 1: You even get caught up in that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just feel your feet walking here now, and you know,
I'll look at the trees and get yourself back depresent
or you know, some hang out in the past all
the time, like why why did I miss that put?
Or you know that's an easy wed shot in so
you're just wasting energy. So it's just doing some exercise
and being aware of like am I good at being
in charge of where my mind is? And if you're
going to be a peak performer in golf, it's a
good thing because between shots it conspiral to really bad stuff,
you know, being irritated other players, very irritated with you know,
all kinds of stuff. So emotions is more like am
I feeling calm and peaceful and confident or am I
anxious frustrated? It's it's you know, the emotions, and sometimes
emotions come from the thoughts I have, And sometimes I
just get emotions because I have a memory of missing
this shot last week at the same spot, and the
emotions start and then it triggers thoughts. So it's just
knowing that if I have too much negative emotions between shots,
and it's so good to learn from science. I'm going
to lose access to a lot of my abilities. It's
just we go more to fight and flight and I
don't and I can't afford that. Am I going to
be a good performer? So it's recognized and I'm getting frustrated, irritated. Okay,
I'm going to go to getting myself to a commerce
state or whatever, more confident state and use my body
maybe to help me and manage that. Because the emotions
is going to fluctuate. I just need to figure out
what is it that makes me play really awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing that I see creeping into both the
mind element and the emotions element is pace of play,
which we talked about a little bit. But how does
slow pace of play affect the amateur golfer? And then
what's the cure to not let it bother you?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, some slow play doesn't affect them at all,
Because he said, I'm only playing with my friends, and
I like this golf course and I paid a lot
of money to play it, so I wanted to take
six hours. You know, they're probably nobody does, but anyway,
so you know it does because if you play with
plays that you feel are very very slow, it can
get you really irritated. You know, you start having all
the self talk and emotions and it's going to get
your body tight, or you can start rushing and making
up for them being slow. I mean that happens a
lot all the time. So I think every golfer needs
to know how long time their routine takes the preparation.
Think box in the playbox. I think it's really important.
And you know, we have a goal to keep it
thirty seconds in under and it's just that the time
that the LPGA is used for a long time that
you have an average of thirty seconds per shot, and
I don't think we need more than that. But many today,
especially think box because of so much more technology that
there's so many ways of measuring the distance. You know,
you might have it on your watch, you might have
you know, your bush and hel glasses, you have sprinkler heads,
you have screens in your cart. They can be like
a cillion different ways of doing that. And there are
many systems how to check green reading and all of
these things. But then players to and players try to
do all of that all the time, and it's like
it doesn't work, it's not sustainable because they usually lose
access to their own instinct and feel over time because
there's so much up in the numbers.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: They get you know, you get tired and done basically.
But we don't know anyone who wants to be slow.
They have just never been aware of it or coached
how to do it different so they can so they
can be more efficient, but also play as good or
better doing it in a more simplified way. For example,
we we can have many that you know, there we
go on the golf course and they start having you know,
two three four practice wings. We never saw that on
the range, but suddenly on the course and they do
two three four practice wings. So you know, I after
one whole used to ask cluck, okay, so what's the
intention for those practice wings? And then depending on the answer,
just try to help them sort it out and how
can you actually accomplish that in one And you know,
we usually say if they're player shooting ninety, you know,
if you also make three practice wing, that's ninety plus
two hundred and seventy. It's a lot of swingings anyway,
So but they haven't thought about that, or some think
a practice swing it needs to be perfect before I
can move on, And like that belief is like never good.
But what I'm saying is, this is this area that
most golfers haven't really reflected on and they haven't had
any coaching to help them sort it out and make
it more functional on the golf course. So I think
it's really really important. And I said, like, let's try
for three holes. You know, you can get a feed
for the swing and move your body, but let's just
not do in the practice swings. Just you see what
it would be like. And then some discover like, wow,
I like that better, or some realize that no, yeah,
it's good, but I just want something a little bit.
So we just need to work it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that if you start practicing your
own think box playbox that you don't need as long
as you do it consistently, you shouldn't have to be
self conscious about feeling like you're holding up the because
if they see you're doing your routine on the first
second hal you know, first four or five shots, that's
your rhythm and you don't have to be self conscious
about it, people will like start accepting it's like okay,
that's his pace of play.
Speaker 2: Well as as long as it doesn't take too.
Speaker 1: Long Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.
Speaker 2: But I want another thing about the routine that is
really important for us. Sure, the only thing that matters
about this we talk about the pre shot routine now,
is that I made a decision and I have an
internal go signal whatever that is. So that's what's important.
It's not that I always do the exact same outer routine,
because what I'm saying is like I normally don't make
practice wing, but if I have like a shot around
the green, or I'm going to have a certain lie,
i might make a practice wing whatever to get the field,
but it's just to get the go signal. So I
can have a structure, but it is with flexibility because
what I'm saying this is because we can have many
more lead players that have been taught. If they do
the same exact routine from the outside looking, it's always
going to work. And we know that's not true because
it's what you feel inside that needs to be feel
really awesome, like I got this. I know what I'm doing,
and I feel what I'm doing. I'm ready to go.
So sometimes that can happen in different ways. But if
I still feel like I still need to step off
this Pat, I still need to do practice wing because
I'm supposed to. I might I might be too late.
I lost that go signal.
Speaker 1: You mentioned a few minutes ago that your books, these
three books in this series are self published. Where can
we find.
Speaker 2: Them on Amazon or Buns and Noble.
Speaker 1: Great. Oh so it's not just on your website, but
it is available at Amazon and then the website Vision fifty
four dot com. You got it, and check out the schools.
If you want some of the best instruction the world
has to offer, you should definitely check out Vision fifty
four because Lynn and Pia are superheroes in the game
of Game Improvement World.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's really nice of you.
Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you again. It's great to talk to you,
and it's always a joy to talk to you, and
I really value your time. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you Fred, Thanks for all you do for the game.