Speaker 1: One of our favorites talk some hoop. It is Howard
Speaker 1: Beck on a Friday afternoon. Howard, Happy Friday, sir.
Speaker 2: How are you Spence doing great? How are you sir?
Speaker 1: I'm well, I'm well. And I got to start with
Speaker 1: with Jalen last night, an iconic shot that will live
Speaker 1: in Nick lore. And you know, we'll get into kind
Speaker 1: of the nuts and bolts of what's next, because the
Speaker 1: Celtics are a nightmare matchup, not just for New York
Speaker 1: but for everybody. But what is the right way to
Speaker 1: frame that moment and what it meant for Nick fans?
Speaker 1: Just the snapshot moment of Jalen knocking down that shot
Speaker 1: to beat the Pistons in Detroit.
Speaker 2: Incredible shot, Incredible moments. I do know. I'm here in
Speaker 2: New York until I have a lot of friends and
Speaker 2: others in my world to our Knicks fan and I think,
Speaker 2: you know, like part of it is like there's just
Speaker 2: the thrill of it, the excitement of that shot and
Speaker 2: how important it was and how iportant it was just
Speaker 2: to kind of finally put down this Pistons team that
Speaker 2: was you know, really like stressing them out throughout this series,
Speaker 2: like they the Pissons at every shot to win this series.
Speaker 2: We can get back to that in a minute.
Speaker 3: But it's been an.
Speaker 2: Interesting season for the Knicks and their fans because frankly,
Speaker 2: it's been the kind of thing where nobody has been
Speaker 2: particularly I don't feel like the people I know, at
Speaker 2: least have been particularly confident in how this season was
Speaker 2: going to go that ever since they brought in Towns
Speaker 2: and Bridges and said goodbye to Evincenzo and Hartenstein, the
Speaker 2: personality of this team changed since last season, and they
Speaker 2: weren't quite as gritty. Brunson obviously is Josh hart Is,
Speaker 2: but I think Knicks fans in general have had a
Speaker 2: little bit of anxiety about this team, not sure how
Speaker 2: good they'd ultimately be, whether they actually could you know,
Speaker 2: go up against the Celtics and the Cavs for that matter,
Speaker 2: And so now it was like, are we going to
Speaker 2: even get out of the first round? And there were,
Speaker 2: you know, I think some moments of concern there, especially
Speaker 2: when the Pistons stole home court advantage winning Game two
Speaker 2: at the Garden. So Brunson once again, I mean, he's
Speaker 2: clutch player of the Year for a reason. The guy's amazing.
Speaker 2: He always comes through. And yeah, that was a really
Speaker 2: important one, and and and now now comes a really
Speaker 2: big challenge.
Speaker 1: So you know, we'll get to the Celtics matchup coming
Speaker 1: coming up in a bit. But I want to hone
Speaker 1: in on Jalen for a moment because, look, I know
Speaker 1: what we're supposed to do today, like we're on first
Speaker 1: take is say he's already the greatest Nick of all
Speaker 1: time or whatever. But but but look, I mean, and
Speaker 1: I'm biased, as you know, and I do appreciate it
Speaker 1: when a star player embraces the challenge of being great
Speaker 1: in New.
Speaker 3: York, because you can roll your eyes with that all
Speaker 3: you want.
Speaker 1: It just is different. And if you have an experience
Speaker 1: in the way you and I've experienced, you don't fully
Speaker 1: understand it. What do you What are you willing to
Speaker 1: say about who he is and who he can be
Speaker 1: based off the start of his career in New York?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I chuckled quite a bit earlier today
Speaker 2: when I saw that some but he had anointed him
Speaker 2: as the greatest Nick or potentially the greatest Nick of
Speaker 2: all time a little early for that. And you know,
Speaker 2: look that to get out of the second round would
Speaker 2: be nice you know, before we start making proclamations, he's
Speaker 2: already let's just say it this way to start with,
Speaker 2: in the last twenty years, he is by far the
Speaker 2: most important Nick. And with all due respect of Carmelo
Speaker 2: Anthony or anybody else who came along, I don't think
Speaker 2: that's a stretch at all. He's the most important Nixon's
Speaker 2: Patrick Ewing. That's an easy one. Is he at Ewing's
Speaker 2: level even yet? No, I mean, you ain't got them
Speaker 2: to you know, the finals, and you know, plausibly to
Speaker 2: the second finals, you know, even if he was hurt.
Speaker 2: And the Ewing era was a wildly successful era, the
Speaker 2: most successful era of Knicks basketball since the early seventies.
Speaker 2: And then we have to bring you know, Clyde Fraser
Speaker 2: into the mix, and Willis Reid and everybody else. So
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, you know, Jalen Brunton himself probably
Speaker 2: would not have the audacity to place himself on the
Speaker 2: Knick's mount rushmore. Just yet it's still early in his
Speaker 2: time here too, so like we don't need to be
Speaker 2: in a rush. But he is by far the most
Speaker 2: popular and most important and most significant Nick. I think
Speaker 2: of this millennium, right the last twenty five years, and
Speaker 2: we'll see how much more he can stack on top
Speaker 2: of that from here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, look, and all of that is well said,
Speaker 1: and I agree with it. It just you know, the
Speaker 1: day after you hit a game winning shot to be
Speaker 1: the sixth seed in the first round, and the superlatives
Speaker 1: are like he's the best nick ever, Like what are
Speaker 1: we doing? But ultimately I have really enjoyed watching the
Speaker 1: way he goes about his business. Do you feel, like Howard,
Speaker 1: there's so much pressure on him? I mean it's one
Speaker 1: four flat, it's isolation, it's Jalen make a play, and
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you can get away.
Speaker 3: With that from time to time.
Speaker 1: But offensively, what do you make of how much Tom
Speaker 1: asks of him? Like it's not just in crunch time,
Speaker 1: like it feels like if Jalen doesn't make the play,
Speaker 1: And look, when Jalen sits, they do try to play
Speaker 1: through Kat. We'll get to Cat in a moment, But
Speaker 1: what do you make of how they approach it's schematically
Speaker 1: offensively just asking him to do everything.
Speaker 2: Ah yeah, I mean listen, you know Tom Thibodeau has
Speaker 2: you know, forgotten more about basketball than you and I
Speaker 2: will ever know. All the stuff right, all the caveats apply.
Speaker 2: I admit that I have been a little puzzled by
Speaker 2: certain aspects of Tips's approach, especially once they got mckail Bridges. Now,
Speaker 2: mckail bridges is not a point guard, and he's not
Speaker 2: necessarily even a point forward. But mckil bridges did a
Speaker 2: lot with the ball in his hands, as you know,
Speaker 2: the third wheel in Phoenix the year they went to
Speaker 2: the finals. He you know, spent a half season in
Speaker 2: Brooklyn being a plausible first option, even though that's not
Speaker 2: really what he's cut out to do. He can do
Speaker 2: a lot with the ball in his hands, is the point.
Speaker 2: And I thought there was an opportunity when the Knicks
Speaker 2: got Bridges that they could play through him some both
Speaker 2: as a guy who could lead the second unit instead
Speaker 2: of say like a you know, a kind of a
Speaker 2: combo guard like Deuce McBride or Cameron Payne. I thought
Speaker 2: Bridges could run the second unit and could at times
Speaker 2: take some of the ball handling duties and playmaking duties
Speaker 2: off of brunts and shoulders even when they're playing together,
Speaker 2: as a way of letting Brunson, you know, kind of
Speaker 2: take a breather now and then or just not to
Speaker 2: have the full you know, brunt of the defense on
Speaker 2: him at all times. And I was surprised just that
Speaker 2: this season it's still just been like, give the ball
Speaker 2: to Jalen Brunston and let him cook. And I'm not
Speaker 2: a big ISO ball guy or a big you know,
Speaker 2: like like Helio centrism guy. I don't think that just
Speaker 2: handing the ball to James Harden, Russell Westbrook or Luca
Speaker 2: for that matter, over and over and over again is
Speaker 2: the best strategy, especially in the playoffs when teams will
Speaker 2: feast on an offense that feels too predictable. And so
Speaker 2: I think both for Brunton's his health, his durability, his
Speaker 2: his energy levels, and also just what's effective, I think
Speaker 2: you have to diversify your offense more. And I have
Speaker 2: been puzzled by that aspect.
Speaker 1: So let's give Detroit some flowers, man. I mean four games,
Speaker 1: four straight game decided by I think three points or less,
Speaker 1: which has never happened in NBA history before. And we
Speaker 1: are in saw Lake City, where we are home of
Speaker 1: the worst team in the NBA. The moniker of the
Speaker 1: worst team in the NBA year ago was Detroit and
Speaker 1: they fall the five in the draft, so they didn't
Speaker 1: even get rewarded for such an anemic season. Of course, Kate
Speaker 1: was hurt last year, but former Jazz general manager Dennis
Speaker 1: Lindsay is assisting Trajan Langdon that roster construction. And look,
Speaker 1: Kate is awesome, but it's not just Kate. I'm very
Speaker 1: impressed with Jalen Duran, who picked up a lot of
Speaker 1: slack with Isaiah Stewart out. And then you know, are
Speaker 1: Thompson man, these Thompson kids. Hoof man, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of potential there. What do you make of this project
Speaker 1: that we've seen in Detroit, a great basketball city that's
Speaker 1: not had a great basketball team in a long long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, I attended all of the home games in the series,
Speaker 2: the New York games, and so I got to see
Speaker 2: them up close and and you know, be around that
Speaker 2: team a little bit, and you know, super talented, super confident,
Speaker 2: great chemistry. They really seem to like each other. There's
Speaker 2: a good vibe around that team. That's always a nice sign.
Speaker 2: With a young team that's on the rise. Kate Cunningham
Speaker 2: is gonna make one of the All NBA teams. Those
Speaker 2: will be announced within the next week. Or two. You know, JB.
Speaker 2: Bickerstaff might be Coach of the Year that's coming soon,
Speaker 2: that announcement, and there's all the promise in the world.
Speaker 2: Like Asar Thompson, you know, I've talked to people who
Speaker 2: have said, like, if he hadn't been hurt part of
Speaker 2: this season, he you know, we might have seen him
Speaker 2: even outshine his brother for best defender. Like those two
Speaker 2: are gonna be, like they're gonna both be all defensive
Speaker 2: team for the foreseeable future and both in the running
Speaker 2: with each other, you know, potentially for well, no one's
Speaker 2: gonna be defensive Player of the Year because when Benyama
Speaker 2: is just gonna take it over for the next decade.
Speaker 2: But but Asar Thompson's the real deal defensively, Kate Cunningham
Speaker 2: is the real deal as a really big by the
Speaker 2: way point guard, Like he's like that guy's he's he's
Speaker 2: just a beast, like there's like most point guards can't
Speaker 2: defend him, can pass over anybody. So they've got their
Speaker 2: anchor and they've got good supporting players, and I think
Speaker 2: the key now is to just be patient. I have
Speaker 2: a story about this up with the Ringer dot Com today,
Speaker 2: in fact, about what comes next, and people around the
Speaker 2: league saying like, yeah, they need to slow roll this now.
Speaker 2: Don't don't rush it, don't say Okay, it's time to
Speaker 2: go all in. Just let these guys grow, because there
Speaker 2: were three best players are all twenty three and younger.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no. I've been very impressed with what they've built.
Speaker 1: And you know, we always cheer for Dennis around here,
Speaker 1: so hopefully they can keep taking a step up, all right, Howard.
Speaker 1: For all of the celebration in New York about the
Speaker 1: first round victory, the Celtics are a seven to one
Speaker 1: favorite to beat the Knicks. And it's not just four
Speaker 1: and oh this year with an average margin of sixteen.
Speaker 1: It is eight and one in their last nine and
Speaker 1: quite frankly the only chance, opinion, Howard, the Nicks have
Speaker 1: as if the Celtics are compromised with their health, then
Speaker 1: they kind of are with Drew Holliday. But look, Derek
Speaker 1: White is a difficult matchup for Jalen. He'll be able
Speaker 1: to guard him. Peyton Pritchard sixth Man of the Year.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, it feels like if they go to five
Speaker 3: or six it.
Speaker 1: Might be a win. I don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: hope for the next round two. What do you make
Speaker 1: of this Celtic nick matchup?
Speaker 2: When they went out last summer and got Bridges using
Speaker 2: pretty much all their draft capital to get him. The
Speaker 2: first thing I thought was, you are loading up to
Speaker 2: try to deal with the Celtics because the Celtics are
Speaker 2: built primarily around Tatum and Brown, big wings who can
Speaker 2: do a lot with the ball in their hands, and
Speaker 2: you need as many really good to great perimeter defenders
Speaker 2: as you can get. Og Andnobi is you know, as
Speaker 2: good as they get one of the premier defenders in
Speaker 2: the league. Bridges. You'll get mixed reviews about him for
Speaker 2: the last couple of years of his defense, like maybe
Speaker 2: his reputation has kind of exceeded his actual production the
Speaker 2: last couple of years on the defensive side. But it
Speaker 2: looked to me like that was the plan, get Bridges
Speaker 2: between him and Anobi and Hart. Maybe you've got enough
Speaker 2: to at least, you know, deal with slow down whatever
Speaker 2: Brown and Tatum. I don't think that that's going to
Speaker 2: be enough. And I think that the flip side of
Speaker 2: it is that the Celtics are the most well built
Speaker 2: team you could have to disrupt the Knicks offense. Like,
Speaker 2: the Knicks offense has been great this season, but so
Speaker 2: much of it as Jalen Brunson, and it begins and
Speaker 2: ends with him. And think about the number of guys, like,
Speaker 2: assume Drew Holliday is healthy and can play. Drew Holliday
Speaker 2: one of the best defenders in the league, Derek White
Speaker 2: one of the best defenders in the NBA. Brown and
Speaker 2: Tatum both very very good defenders. They've got so many
Speaker 2: guys they can throw at Brunson and big long guys too. Like,
Speaker 2: I just think that it's going to be very difficult
Speaker 2: for the Knicks to function at the same level in
Speaker 2: this series. And defensively, like, the Nicks look pretty good
Speaker 2: against the Pistons, but this hasn't been a great defensive
Speaker 2: season for them. And the Celtics and just beat you
Speaker 2: in so many ways from so many places, with so
Speaker 2: many different guys. I just don't think they have a chance. No,
Speaker 2: I think most people will probably say Celtics in six. Respectfully,
Speaker 2: I think there's a chance at Celtics in five. I
Speaker 2: don't want to be disrespectful, but I think that that's
Speaker 2: on the table.
Speaker 1: Before we get to the series. Out this way some
Speaker 1: sad news, Greg Popovich, and you know, probably for the
Speaker 1: best because of the health, has decided that he can
Speaker 1: no longer coach the Spurs. He'll move into the front office.
Speaker 1: And look all the numbers and twenty two regular season victories,
Speaker 1: five NBA Championships, three NBA Coach of the Year Award
Speaker 1: wins for him, and you know, say what you want
Speaker 1: about the icy relationship at times with the media, I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, this is among if not the
Speaker 1: greatest coaches that we've ever seen in this game. I
Speaker 1: wonder what your thoughts are, Howard on this Friday, as
Speaker 1: Greg Popovich has called it a career.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm gonna put it this way. I think
Speaker 2: I think my ultimate reaction is I'm happy for him.
Speaker 2: I'm happy for him that he can walk away, you know,
Speaker 2: and like after a health scare and live his life
Speaker 2: like he's going to still be involved with the Spurs, obviously,
Speaker 2: but coaching is really taxing, and you know, there's there's
Speaker 2: just so much that goes into it physically, mentally, emotionally,
Speaker 2: and clearly he still loved it, but he'd already become
Speaker 2: the oldest coach at NBA head coach in NBA history,
Speaker 2: and you know, you hate that he has to walk
Speaker 2: away under these circumstances, but at least he's he is
Speaker 2: able to walk away and and you know, find a
Speaker 2: different kind of you know, work life balance at this
Speaker 2: stage of his life and still be involved. I think
Speaker 2: he's really important to you know, frankly, the soul of
Speaker 2: that franchise, like the Spurs themselves. Papovich and Arci Buford
Speaker 2: will tell you and have told me, and I told
Speaker 2: everybody over the last couple of decades, nothing is possible
Speaker 2: about Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan is the reason we haven't
Speaker 2: had a dynasty, the reason that we had all our success,
Speaker 2: the reason that we get all this adulation from you guys,
Speaker 2: The reason that you can say something about Spurs culture
Speaker 2: is because of what Duncan established. That's all true, and
Speaker 2: that's fine, and it's not false modesty, but it's it's
Speaker 2: short changing pop to say that pop wasn't a really really,
Speaker 2: really important part of setting the DNA for the franchise
Speaker 2: as well. That when we talk about Spurs culture and
Speaker 2: everything that that franchise values and has been about, it's pop.
Speaker 2: And I've kind of likened him to a modern day
Speaker 2: Red hourback where it was you know, our back was
Speaker 2: the thread that connected all of those Celtics eras from
Speaker 2: the sixties, you know, all the way through two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight when they won a championship with with Piercecarnett
Speaker 2: and Ray Allen and Pop I think represents that same
Speaker 2: kind of of you know, you know, franchise conscience again,
Speaker 2: heart and soul for them, and I just think it's
Speaker 2: important that he's still there as they move into this
Speaker 2: Webbanyama era and with a Pop disciple in miss Johnson
Speaker 2: now taking over as head coach. So, I mean, incredible career,
Speaker 2: great coach. Your point about the media is noted, but
Speaker 2: I will tell you that aside from those you know,
Speaker 2: very notable moments and sometimes they're tense, Pop is also
Speaker 2: phenomenal with the media and has been great to me
Speaker 2: when I've needed him, you know, one on one occasionally
Speaker 2: over the years. And my last thought on that and
Speaker 2: I'll just say it, people will take it however they want.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna miss his political conscience as well, and his
Speaker 2: strength and his ability to be outspoken and not ever
Speaker 2: afraid to say what's on his mind or what needs
Speaker 2: to be said in the times that we live in,
Speaker 2: and that is rare and so basketball aside, I'm going
Speaker 2: to miss that part as well.
Speaker 3: Here here well said all right, Lakers tea Wolves.
Speaker 1: I was not one that believed that the Luka del
Speaker 1: made Lakers the Lakers instantly a championship contender this year.
Speaker 1: We'll see what happens moving forward. My first question is
Speaker 1: am I a bad person for rolling my eyes that
Speaker 1: Lebron James apparently suffered an MCL spraying in Game five?
Speaker 1: Does that make me a bad person?
Speaker 2: I haven't even seen that. I've I've been like in
Speaker 2: the office all day working on other stuff. Did I
Speaker 2: miss a belated injury report?
Speaker 3: Yeah, about thirty forty five minutes ago.
Speaker 1: ESPN's reporting that actually in that de Vincenzo collision, he
Speaker 1: sprained his MCL And now we've got to deal with
Speaker 1: the whole He has a player option? Is he coming? Like?
Speaker 1: They lose? And now it's time to create stories. So
Speaker 1: we keep focusing on Lebron and I just this time
Speaker 1: of year. It drives me nuts, That's just what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I understand that there is certainly a segment of the
Speaker 2: of fans and media who react to all these things
Speaker 2: the same way you do with a big emoji. I
Speaker 2: roll that looked really bad when he when that collision happened,
Speaker 2: and I was, I was, you know at that moment,
Speaker 2: I think like was a Reggie Miller on the call,
Speaker 2: Like it was like there was kind of that grave
Speaker 2: kind of tone, like, oh my god, is this going
Speaker 2: to be it? And especially with a player at his
Speaker 2: age when you go down that hard and when it's
Speaker 2: when you're you know, you got hit at a funky
Speaker 2: angle and you think, oh, man, I hope this isn't
Speaker 2: going to be something serious. I'm going to take it
Speaker 2: to face value that if there's an mcl sprain report,
Speaker 2: that there's probably an mcl sprain. I don't think that
Speaker 2: that's necessarily a look at me again, the drama over
Speaker 2: whether he's gonna play or not. You know, we are
Speaker 2: as much a part of this.
Speaker 1: As he is.
Speaker 2: Let's be honest. We don't have to do this dance
Speaker 2: as the media, but we do. And credit to a
Speaker 2: lot of my colleagues out in LA and people who
Speaker 2: have reported on that team closely who have been saying,
Speaker 2: while Lebron has said he's got to take some time,
Speaker 2: which is natural after twenty two years, the reporting is
Speaker 2: but everybody expects he's going to keep playing. So you know,
Speaker 2: people can decide to obsess over it or not obsess
Speaker 2: over it. And if too many people in the media
Speaker 2: are obsessing over it, you can tune us out enough.
Speaker 3: All right. I will always cheer for our Rudy.
Speaker 1: I will. He was great here, he wanted to stay here,
Speaker 1: was bummed when he was traded. He's kept his residence
Speaker 1: here and I don't know, man, I mean, there are
Speaker 1: a few things here, like he was catching lobs over
Speaker 1: Gabe Vincent, who is the same height as my But
Speaker 1: at the same time, that was probably the best go
Speaker 1: beart playoff game that we've seen, and I was very
Speaker 1: happy for him.
Speaker 3: How did you digest that game, Howard?
Speaker 2: I don't know why poor catching strays are fair?
Speaker 1: You know, it's all good.
Speaker 2: Uh, Rudy Gobert was awesome. It helps that. Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: playing against the team that has no real centers and
Speaker 2: the one center they do have they lost faith in.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter who you put
Speaker 2: out there. Rudy did what he did, and you know,
Speaker 2: given all the shots in the strays that he's taken
Speaker 2: over the years. Uh, that was good to see. I'm
Speaker 2: I'm legitimately happy for him as well. And you know,
Speaker 2: it only gets harder from here. Uh. You know, we'll
Speaker 2: we'll see who they end up facing in the next round.
Speaker 2: But you know, if if if Rudy's going up against
Speaker 2: the Rockets, uh, you know that's got they got that
Speaker 2: jumbo front court there that they can put out there,
Speaker 2: He's gonna have his hands full defensively as well as offensively.
Speaker 2: And you know, if they get through them, you know,
Speaker 2: the thunder are going to present all kinds of other
Speaker 2: challenges too. But Minnesota's had a great resurgence here considering
Speaker 2: the way they started the season.
Speaker 1: All right, So Golden State has one more chance to
Speaker 1: get this done at home, and if not, they've got
Speaker 1: to go back to Houston. They are a five point
Speaker 1: five point favorite. What do you think happens tonight? This
Speaker 1: series has been so fun? What do you think goes
Speaker 1: down to night? Howard?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not one for predictions, but I yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I'd be shocked if they lost it at home.
Speaker 2: You know, like I don't know what happened to them
Speaker 2: the other night, if that was just exhaustion and we're old,
Speaker 2: or we got complacent because we know we got a
Speaker 2: game back at home and we'll just take care of
Speaker 2: it there. And who knows what happened, but they just
Speaker 2: they got the doors blown off early and then they
Speaker 2: just kind of said, Okay, I guess it's not our night.
Speaker 2: And you can do that when you've got a big lead.
Speaker 2: They have blown three one leads and series before, famously infamously,
Speaker 2: but like this is this is a proud veteran team
Speaker 2: that no, they have a very small window considering the
Speaker 2: ages of their three stars. And you know, the Rockets
Speaker 2: have seized up at bad times. They are young and
Speaker 2: prone to too mistakes and be getting a little up
Speaker 2: tight themselves. I gotta think the Warriors close this out.
Speaker 1: All right, my friend, Well we will set you loose.
Speaker 1: Great stuff as always, man, the playoffs have been fun.
Speaker 1: And always appreciate your perspective.
Speaker 2: Have a great weekend, Howard pre expense ticker.
Speaker 1: All right, the great Howard Beck from The Ringer joining
Speaker 1: us on a Friday.
Speaker 3: Only one game tonight. It's the Rockets and the Warriors.
Speaker 1: As we talked about, they're a five point five point favorite,
Speaker 1: and then we do have some Saturday basketball luckily, as
Speaker 1: the Clippers and the Nuggets will play Game seven tomorrow
Speaker 1: at Ball Arena.