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Play the Godfather now at Champacasino dot com. 20 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:01.320 Welcome to the vdW group. 21 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:03.119 No purchase necessary if we were privitted by loss he 22 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:04.439 terms and Conditions eighteen plus. 23 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:15.079 You are now listening to True Murder the most shocking 24 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.200 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 25 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:25.560 written about them. Gasey Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker VTK Every 26 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 27 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:33.560 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 28 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:37.439 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 29 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:52.239 Good Evening, Paris, eighteen eighty nine. Marguerite Stenhall is a 30 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:55.439 woman with ambition that having been born into a middle 31 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:58.000 class family and trapped in a marriage to a failed 32 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:02.040 artist twenty years her senior, she knows her options are limited. 33 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:06.519 Determined to fashion herself into a new woman, Meg orchestrates 34 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:10.560 a scandalous plan with her most powerful resource, her body. 35 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:15.159 Amid the dazzling glamour, art and romance of bourgeois Paris, 36 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:18.599 she takes elite men as their lovers, charming her way 37 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:22.599 into the good graces of the rich and powerful. Her ambitions, though, 38 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:25.840 go far beyond becoming the most desirable woman in Paris. 39 00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:29.080 At her core, she's a woman determined to conquer French 40 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:33.360 high society. But the game she plays is a perilous one. 41 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:39.080 Navigating misogynists, double standards, public scrutiny, and political intrigue, she 42 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:42.960 has soon vaulted into infamy in the most dangerous way possible. 43 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:47.240 A real life femme fetale, Meg influences government positions and 44 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:50.800 resorts to blackmail and maybe even poisoning to get her way, 45 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:53.560 leaving a trail of death and disaster in her wake. 46 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.840 She earns the name the Red Widow for mysteriously surviving 47 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:01.159 a home invasion that leads both her husband and mother dead. 48 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:05.199 With the police baffled and the public enraged, make breaks 49 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:08.560 every rule in the bourgeois handbook and becomes the most 50 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:12.159 notorious woman in Paris. The book that we're featuring this 51 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:15.479 evening is The Red Widow, The Scandal that shook Paris 52 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:18.680 and the woman behind it all, with my special guest, 53 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:22.840 historian and author Sarah Horowitz. Welcome to the program, and 54 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:26.439 thank you very much for this interview. Sarah Horowitz, Thank you. 55 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:28.479 So much for having me. I'm so thrilled to be 56 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:29.240 on your show. 57 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:34.840 Thank you so much, and congratulations on this very extraordinary book, 58 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:39.919 The Red Widow. Let's get right to who this incredible 59 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:46.280 woman was. She was born Marguerite Jean Jeppie And in 60 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:50.439 eighteen sixty nine, and her father's name was Edward and 61 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:55.159 her mother Emily tell us about her life growing up. 62 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:59.120 Yes, so she has a really interesting childhood. Her father 63 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:04.240 is a member of this very powerful and large industrial 64 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:08.960 dynasty in France, at the Jeppee firm, and so he's 65 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:11.719 quite wealthy. He's a member of the bourgeoisie. But he 66 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:16.560 always misbehaves in some ways that maybe, you know, we 67 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:19.079 are fine and in some ways that are not so fine, 68 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:21.600 both by our standards and the standards of the day. 69 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:24.199 And so when he's twenty six, he falls in love 70 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:27.720 with a fourteen year old girl who is the son 71 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:32.040 who's the daughter of tavern keepers, so a very humble background, 72 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:37.680 and his family is aghast. He marries her two years later. 73 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:40.519 So there is I think a twelve year difference between 74 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.720 the two of them, as well as a considerable class 75 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.959 difference between them, and they were shocked very much by 76 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.480 the class difference, although we of course would be very 77 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:53.160 shocked and are very shocked by the considerable age difference 78 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:58.680 between the two. They have four children, of whom Marguerite 79 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:01.000 is one of them, as you say, born in eighteen 80 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:06.279 sixty nine, and they live in Beaucour, which is this 81 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.480 town in eastern France that is very much dominated by 82 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:13.480 the Jappie family, and so they have this very Margareite 83 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:16.160 grows up with this very interesting existence. On the one hand, 84 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.639 she is part of the most dominant family of the 85 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:24.000 town and lives in this sort of very beautiful chateau. 86 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:29.360 But the larger family always holds Edward and Emily and 87 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:33.399 their children, including Marguerite, a part because of the sort 88 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:38.120 of scandalous nature of Edward and Emily's marriage, and her 89 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:43.399 father is a very bad manager of money. Marguerite or 90 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:46.879 Meg as she comes to be known, is clearly his favorite, 91 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:51.000 and she absolutely adores him. She loves her mother, I think, 92 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.959 although has a sort of more somewhat more distant relationship 93 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.480 with her mother. She's often quite disappointed in her mother, 94 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:01.680 and so I think they're relationship between father and daughters 95 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:06.319 quite complicated and quite possibly quite troubling. There are lots 96 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.319 of rumors that fly around the town that Edward was 97 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:14.279 sexually abusing Meg. I don't, obviously, you can't know if 98 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:17.639 that's true, but it does seem clear, even from her 99 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.079 own accounts, that there was some sort of sexual charge 100 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:24.639 to their relationship. She Marguerite falls in love with a 101 00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:28.160 young army officer when she's in her teens. The army 102 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.560 officer is a friend of her brothers, is very charming. 103 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.279 Everyone loves him. He comes to stay at the house 104 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:38.120 a lot, and he and Marguerite hope that they can 105 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:41.920 marry and maybe sort of like get engaged in secret 106 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:46.079 at a time when engagements were not supposed to be 107 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:49.959 secret and were something that was carefully scripted by families 108 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:53.480 and carefully managed by bourgeois families. There also is some 109 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:55.920 evidence that they have sex before marriage, which is a 110 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:00.839 huge no no. Her father finds this out lies into 111 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.399 a rage and sends her to live with her older 112 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:08.959 sister across France, so on the other side of France. 113 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:12.839 And then her father dies soon after, quite tragically and 114 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:16.839 quite suddenly, and it seems maybe that the stress of 115 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:21.600 what he sees as his favorite daughter's betrayal really undoes him. 116 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:25.519 But this leaves Marguerite in a very perilous situation. So 117 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:30.879 there's increasing financial strain because her father has died, her 118 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:33.959 mother really can't manage all the work it would take 119 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:37.199 to marry her off well. And of course there's a 120 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:42.480 huge scandal in her hometown about her relationship with this 121 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.959 young army officer, So She is, however, pursued by a 122 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:51.879 man named Adel Stenel, who's an artist who's about twice 123 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:56.600 her age and is seems clearly very in love with 124 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:01.839 her and absolutely smitten. She is not with him, but 125 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:04.360 I think she has a few other options and is 126 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:07.439 facing a lot of pressure from her family to marry him. 127 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:11.040 So she marries him in eighteen ninety and goes to 128 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:14.639 live with him in Paris, in his home where he 129 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:18.879 lives the life of a sort of not terribly successful artist. 130 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:22.040 I would call it a middle class life. She doesn't 131 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:24.720 have to She's never going to go hungry, but it's 132 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:29.160 not going to be particularly glamorous. The relationship is not happy. 133 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:34.120 She's very ambitious, he's very passive. He's very much in 134 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:38.480 love with her. She is always sort of iffy about him. 135 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:42.559 And also he is having affairs with both men and women, 136 00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:46.080 and those affairs with men really horrify her. For many 137 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.559 people of the day, male homosexuality was absolutely horrifying, and 138 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.240 so she wants to get a divorce very early on, 139 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:57.600 soon after the birth of their first and only child, 140 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:01.039 but he convinces her not to. Part of the reason 141 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:04.320 is that divorce at the time was so scandalous, and 142 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:09.120 so it was seen as scandalous that kind of last resort, 143 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.799 and would have required airing the family's dirty laundry, including 144 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:18.240 her husband's affairs with men. So that they decide to 145 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:22.679 stay married, live fairly independent, lives in the same home, 146 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:27.159 and he basically promises that he will allow her to 147 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.840 have affairs as far as I can tell, And so 148 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:33.279 she starts off on a course of affairs with very 149 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.360 prominent Parisians, starting with her husband's best friend, who's a 150 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.399 very prominent former jurist. He was essentially the former Attorney 151 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:45.320 General of Paris, and he introduces her to this world 152 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:49.080 of high society that she absolutely adores. So there's this 153 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:53.960 young woman, she's in her early twenties. She's very beautiful, 154 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:59.840 she's very very charming, she's very seductive, she loves male attention, 155 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:04.360 and she does quite well for herself in Parisian high society, 156 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:09.399 having a string of affairs, particularly with men in the judiciary, 157 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:14.080 and the arrangement she strikes with them is fairly unusual. 158 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:18.720 That they will buy a painting from her husband and 159 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:21.759 in return she will have an affair with them. So 160 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:25.440 this means that she never has to directly trade sex 161 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:28.159 for money and is also a way of boosting her 162 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:33.639 husband's career and indirectly her family's prestige. And she's very 163 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.360 famous because in eighteen ninety seven she starts having affair, 164 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.159 an affair with a president of France at the time, 165 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:44.639 Felix Fauch, and she's absolutely smitten with her, and he 166 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:49.000 sends huge sums of money her to her husband to 167 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:53.279 buy this not very great art to finance their relationship. 168 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:58.159 And what Marguerite and faux are perhaps most famous for 169 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:03.039 is in February of eighteen eighty nine, he has a 170 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.399 stroke during one of their sexual encounters. Legend has it 171 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:09.519 at the height at the climax of one of their 172 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:12.279 sexual encounters, but I don't know if that's sexually true, 173 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:14.919 and then dies of it a few hours later. This 174 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:18.120 is of course very embarrassing to her and it never 175 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.320 makes it into the press, or at least she's never 176 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:23.240 named in the press, but everyone in Paris knows about this. 177 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:27.320 She becomes as a result of their affair even more famous. 178 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:30.440 You know, people are really excited because they see her 179 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:33.759 as this very talented lover who is so good that 180 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:37.080 she just might kill you, right, and she has a 181 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:43.639 series of affairs with very prominent, very powerful men, including industrialists, 182 00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:46.360 some evidence of some kind of you know, members of 183 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.840 royal families. And she has these affairs, but her system 184 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.480 is really faltering. By nineteen oh eight, she and her 185 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:59.080 husband are increasingly at odds with each other. She wants 186 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:02.399 to divorce them, and the family is also increasing lee 187 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:07.120 under financial strain. She's having some trouble keeping lovers. And 188 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:10.759 so this is nineteen oh eight, and in May thirty first, 189 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:15.799 nineteen oh eight, her valet wakes up in the morning, 190 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.000 comes down to the second floor of their house, finds 191 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:24.960 her husband and her mother, who had been staying with them, strangled, 192 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:29.480 and Marguerite tied to the bed with a gag by 193 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:34.279 her side, calling out for help. And so the police 194 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:39.679 come very rapidly. They start this search, and Marguerite is 195 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.200 the only survivor of this attack and the only witness, 196 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:48.759 and she says that three robed men and a redheaded 197 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:53.080 woman entered the house. They thought it was empty, they 198 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:58.080 were intending to rob it. They realize that the residents 199 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.639 of the house are still there. They kill her mother 200 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:06.559 and her husband, but they spare her life, thinking that 201 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:10.279 she is the adolescent daughter. And this is a very 202 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:13.759 improbable tale from the beginning. I mean, you know, Marguerite 203 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.320 is sort of on the verge of forty. The idea 204 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:19.240 that she would be mistaken for an adolescent is one problem, 205 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:21.919 But there are also no signs of forced entry in 206 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:25.159 the house. There are no signs of struggle on the 207 00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:29.960 corpses of either her husband or her mother. There's really 208 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.960 there are valuables that are left in plain sight in 209 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:37.799 the house, including just cash lying out there. And the 210 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:41.240 house is really not in disarray. You know, it looks 211 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:45.399 like some drawers have been rifled through, and so, you know, 212 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.960 people read this report and think she has to be lying, 213 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:52.919 and I think any of us would also think she 214 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:56.759 has to be lying. It can't have been an intrusion. 215 00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:00.240 This wasn't robbers. You know, there are no The fct 216 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:03.519 that there are no signs of struggle are very strange 217 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:07.440 for many people. But the police go along with her, 218 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:11.639 and the police say, yes, we believe her story, and 219 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:16.039 they start trying to find people who match her the 220 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:19.840 description that she gave. And I think it's important to 221 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:23.759 note that she is very very well protected, that she 222 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:29.000 has so many connections amongst French politicians, among French officials, 223 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:33.480 and in particular the chief investigator of the affair, a 224 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:37.799 band named Joseph Laidie. He was at the very least admirer, 225 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:42.679 but quite possibly one of her lovers. Right, so it 226 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.679 seems quite likely that the police are engaged in a 227 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:49.240 cover up, and there are lots of theories about what 228 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:53.120 actually happened. We don't know what happened. The murders remain 229 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:57.960 unsolved to this day. There's some people who think that 230 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.279 she might have done it, that she he was so 231 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.120 tired of being married to her husband and that being 232 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:06.679 a widow was less scandalous than getting a divorce, so 233 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:10.120 she just decides to kill him. The most probable theories 234 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:14.159 they were having a bite and then her husband wakes 235 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:19.000 up and sort of lumbers towards the lover. The lover 236 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:22.879 freaks out, he thinks he's been as this is a trap, 237 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.879 and he strangles the husband, and then the mother quite 238 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:29.879 possibly just dies of fright, you know, the sort of 239 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:35.440 seeing her son in law murdered, essentially. And then after 240 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:39.080 that she and her lover decide to stage this crime scene, 241 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.720 and so they rifle through the drawers. They put a 242 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:48.039 cane by her husband's corpse to make it look like 243 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.879 he had defended himself, even though of course there are 244 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:53.759 no signs that he had engaged in any struggle. And 245 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:56.720 then they tie her to the bed, or the lover 246 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.440 ties to the bed, but ties her quite loosely rangely, 247 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.039 also ties her to the bed toe by toe, which 248 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:07.639 is a very unusual method of tying someone to the bed, 249 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.320 and then puts a piece of sort of cotton wadding 250 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:14.159 by her head to make it look like she had 251 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:17.559 been gagged and cried out. So it seems like this 252 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:23.360 has been staged, very sloppily staged, but just enough so 253 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:27.080 that the police would have enough to say, oh, we 254 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:31.200 believe her account that this was intruders who meant to 255 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:31.960 rob the house. 256 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:36.480 You talk about the political connections, and you talked about this, 257 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.720 you write about this late day, this person in charge 258 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:44.799 of the investigation. But at the same time there are rumors, 259 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:48.399 as you mentioned, and a very effective rumor mill. But 260 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.840 also the press, yes, tell us about the behavior of 261 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:56.120 some of the present and how prominent you said, seventy 262 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.399 nine dailies in Paris at that time, two hundred and 263 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:02.519 seventy five in the provinces. So the role of the 264 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:05.400 media is very important in this story. What's the role 265 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.920 and the public's rule in this what happens next? 266 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.039 That's such a great question. So this is, as you say, 267 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:16.359 there's seventy nine dailies in Paris alone. This is total 268 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:21.519 media saturation, which means that people would be reading multiple 269 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:25.240 newspapers a day, and their newspapers for all political stripes 270 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:29.599 from far left to far right. There's also these four big, 271 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:35.680 fairly not particularly politically engaged newspapers that have huge circulations. 272 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:40.200 And so in this era where there's this tremendous press competition, 273 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:45.640 everyone wants a good story and they love stories about crimes, 274 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:50.039 they love stories about female celebrities and sex, and they 275 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:52.920 love stories that have a little bit of political intrigue. 276 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:57.119 So this immediately after the murders is front page news. 277 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:00.799 That being said, there's some press norms so that there's 278 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:05.200 a lot of hints in the press about Meg's relationship 279 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.880 with Foe, but for the most part, journalists don't really 280 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.920 mention it. Right after the murders. They still feel that's 281 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.839 a little bit off limits. That, you know, the former 282 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.160 president deserves a kind of certain degree of respect, and 283 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:21.920 the press very early on points out all the many 284 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:26.960 contradictions of Meg's story, and they're very skeptical, and particularly 285 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:30.079 the left wing press is very skeptical because they were 286 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.559 very skeptical of the police, who they see as basically 287 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:38.559 a pressing workers, and so there's a lot of skepticism. 288 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.240 What that means is that Meg is under a cloud 289 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:45.839 of suspicions, and so the public really suspects her, and 290 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:49.720 she has friends and lovers who are saying, we can't 291 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:53.279 have a relationship with you until your name is cleared. 292 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:57.599 So that means that her financial situation is very imperiled 293 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.799 because she's dependent on her love for money, so she's 294 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:05.839 really desperate to clear her name. It's pretty clear to 295 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:09.279 me that the government just wants to put this case 296 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:12.680 to bed and to say we couldn't find the murders. 297 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:17.519 Too bad. They're just, you know, these horrible, nefarious criminals. 298 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:21.200 We all know that Paris has experienced a crime experiencing 299 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:24.200 a crime wave. This is just one other terrible thing 300 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:29.640 that criminals have done. And so the authority stop talking 301 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:33.000 to the press quite within a few weeks about this 302 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:35.880 case and say there's no news, we don't have anything. 303 00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:40.160 This is just a very ordinary crime. The problem, of course, 304 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.359 from Marguerite is that she needs more than that, right, 305 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:47.400 she needs perpetrators to be found. But if we assume 306 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:50.640 that either she's the perpetrator or that one of her 307 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:56.400 powerful lovers was the perpetrator, that it can't happen. And 308 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:01.240 so she really has this shifting series of stories in 309 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:09.680 the coming months. Chi blames Germans, Italians, Brazilians, North Africans, 310 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.359 and then what happens is a kind of fairly strange coincidence. 311 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.240 So the day after the murders, someone who worked in 312 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:22.799 the Persian Metro finds in the Parisian Metro card that 313 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:28.039 has an invitation to an exhibit of her husband's artwork, 314 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:32.319 and it also has another card with a list of addresses, 315 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.640 And so this metro employee turns this over to the police, 316 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:40.119 thinking it could be a clue, and the police tracked 317 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:45.319 down all the addresses that's on this sort of supposed clue, 318 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:49.160 and one of them is of a theatrical costumer, and 319 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:54.440 the theatrical costumer says, well, a little bit before the murders, 320 00:20:54.759 --> 00:21:00.839 I rented out some robes to a bunch of strange 321 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:05.400 Americans and they never returned them. And so then the 322 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.920 police go after these They find these strange Americans, one 323 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.960 of whom is a journalist, another whom is an artist, 324 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:17.079 and they start following these men, thinking that they could 325 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:21.240 be possibly the murderers. And Meg is, of course she 326 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:25.279 knows about this. She's so excited. She has these increasingly 327 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.839 certain identifications of these men as the perpetrators. As the 328 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.680 police show her photographs and also arrange for her to 329 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:36.960 see these men on the streets of Paris. She's sort 330 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.720 of dressed up so she wouldn't be visible as herself. 331 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:42.920 She dresses as an err and girl. One time she says, oh, yes, 332 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:46.680 I think it's these men. And the problem for Meg 333 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.960 and for the police is that these men have rock 334 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:55.319 solid alibis, and the American journalists had actually been out 335 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:58.839 of Paris. He had been on a especially hiking trip 336 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.359 all over France. And there's a hotel owner who says, yes, 337 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:05.559 he was here that night. He couldn't possibly have been 338 00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:10.720 in Paris, and so this is at this point Marguerite 339 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:16.279 is increasingly frustrated. She really really needs to clear her name, 340 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:18.920 and so she goes back to the press and she 341 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:23.079 tells this journalist and says, I there's the police are 342 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.759 on the verge of an arrest any minute now. They're 343 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.799 going to arrest the perpetrators who matched my initial description. 344 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:35.200 And the police are very upset with her at this 345 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:38.920 point because by doing this, she had essentially reopened the case, 346 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.480 put herself back in the spotlight after months of a 347 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:49.480 media silence about the case. And so they say, actually, no, 348 00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:54.400 this league didn't pan out. These men have alibis. But 349 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:58.200 immediately the press sees on this and they're so excited 350 00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:04.480 and marguerite. At this time, she keeps giving interviews to journalists. 351 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:07.359 They're besieging her. They're sort of you know, there must 352 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:10.400 be sort of probably dozens of them at her house 353 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.319 at any one time. She's giving all these interviews. She's 354 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.000 making herself, you know, sort of saying, I'm bound and 355 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:23.359 determined to stallve these murders and avenge the deaths of 356 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:28.680 my beloved family members. And so she's great to copy 357 00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:33.000 for these journalists because she's so dramatic and she's so wild, 358 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.720 and you know, she's just so accessible too, and she's 359 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:41.720 a bit of a celebrity. But she runs into trouble 360 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.240 and there's no perpetrator, and she's put the news back 361 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:49.359 into headlines. And so what she does is she plants 362 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:53.799 evidence on her valet, and then when a journalist is over, 363 00:23:54.319 --> 00:24:00.559 she has the journalists look through her valet's below longings 364 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:04.240 find the evidence, and they go to the police and say, oh, 365 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.039 the Valley must have done it because you can see 366 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:10.240 here he has a piece of jewelry that was stolen 367 00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:12.720 on the night of the murders. 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No 381 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:48.119 purchase necessary board we're prohibited by long eighteen plus terms 382 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:50.079 and conditions a flag see website for details. 383 00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:54.920 But then something equally even more dramatic happens, which is 384 00:24:55.319 --> 00:25:01.519 her jeweler recognizes a photograph of the ring she says 385 00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:05.559 had been stolen in one of the newspapers, and goes 386 00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:08.880 to the police and says, actually, I know this wasn't 387 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:12.680 stolen on the night of the murders, because Meg brought 388 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:15.599 it to me a few days after the murders and 389 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:20.359 wanted me to reset the stone. And so suddenly, you know, 390 00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:24.200 the suspicion starts falling on Meg. Did she plant evidence 391 00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:27.960 on her valet, Was she involved in the murders? Why 392 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:30.640 was she lying about what had been stolen after the 393 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.240 murders or during the murders. At this point, the case 394 00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:38.279 is absolutely front page news of basically every Parisian newspaper. 395 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.640 They can't get enough of this story. So she admits 396 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:46.839 that her vallet did it, and then very quickly she says, oh, 397 00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:49.759 it was the cook's son who did it, and I've 398 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:53.839 known it all along and I recognized him, but I 399 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.759 didn't say it was him because I really I didn't 400 00:25:57.799 --> 00:25:59.680 want to hurt the cook and I didn't want to 401 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:03.720