1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: I want you to just picture something for a second. 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,839 It's late, You're sitting at your desk, the only light 3 00:00:04,919 --> 00:00:08,199 is from your laptop screen, and you're scrolling through an 4 00:00:08,199 --> 00:00:11,320 email EBox. Okay, it looks well, it looks exactly like 5 00:00:11,359 --> 00:00:15,080 your inbox, same layout, same font, you know, bold subject 6 00:00:15,119 --> 00:00:16,199 lines for things you haven't read. 7 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,399 Speaker 2: It feels familiar, that digital space we all kind of 8 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:18,760 live in. 9 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,679 Speaker 1: Now, exactly totally. You see a subject line about a 10 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:26,480 meeting change, another one, an order confirmation from Amazon, some 11 00:00:26,679 --> 00:00:31,640 junk mail. It's so so mundane, it's boring. But then 12 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,119 then you realize whose inbox this is, right, You realize 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,320 you are scrolling through the personal emails of a man 14 00:00:38,439 --> 00:00:41,600 whose name is now basically a synonym for evil, for 15 00:00:41,679 --> 00:00:44,520 the absolute worst kind of predatory behavior. You're inside Jeffrey 16 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:45,320 Epstein's inbox. 17 00:00:45,399 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: And that familiarity, that, yeah, that absolute banality, that's what 18 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,200 makes it so chilling. Yeah, it isn't some you know, 19 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,679 gothic dungeon. It's a Gmail. 20 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: Account that shivery. You just got that that really creepy 21 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,439 feeling of the normal mixed with the monstrous. That is 22 00:01:01,479 --> 00:01:02,960 where we are going to be living for the next 23 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,680 hour or so because that inbox it's open now and 24 00:01:06,719 --> 00:01:09,079 the story it tells is not the one we've been 25 00:01:09,079 --> 00:01:10,640 hearing for the past decade. 26 00:01:10,799 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 2: No, it's a story about the architecture of power, and 27 00:01:14,359 --> 00:01:18,400 more importantly, how that architecture is specifically designed to make 28 00:01:18,439 --> 00:01:19,480 you look in the wrong direction. 29 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. I'm your host, and today is well, honestly, 30 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,319 it's going to be a heavy one. I've been sitting 31 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:28,280 with this source material for a few days and it's 32 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,239 a lot, but we have to go there. It is 33 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,519 February eighth, twenty twenty six, and we are pulling on 34 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,439 two threads, two threads that the mainstream media has for 35 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,120 the most part either ignored or just snipped short. 36 00:01:40,359 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: And calling them lose threads might be that might be 37 00:01:43,159 --> 00:01:45,599 an understatement. These are more like structural cables. You pull 38 00:01:45,599 --> 00:01:47,159 on them, the whole building starts to creak. 39 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:48,599 Speaker 1: That's a good way to put it. We have a 40 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,319 huge stack of documents to get through today. We're basing 41 00:01:51,319 --> 00:01:56,200 this whole conversation on a really frankly and explosive investigation 42 00:01:56,319 --> 00:01:59,359 by Al Jazeera English's show The Listening Post. 43 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,439 Speaker 2: Fantastic show it is. 44 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,359 Speaker 1: And it features some incredible deep dive reporting from drop 45 00:02:05,359 --> 00:02:09,159 site News. We're talking specifically about the work of journalists 46 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,439 Murtaza Hussein and Monoxi Robbie. 47 00:02:11,439 --> 00:02:13,439 Speaker 2: They've done the really hard work here. I mean they 48 00:02:13,479 --> 00:02:15,680 went through the haystacks to find the needles. 49 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: They really did. So here's the mission for today. We 50 00:02:18,439 --> 00:02:22,240 have two major stories. On the surface, they seem separate, 51 00:02:22,319 --> 00:02:27,039 but as we'll see, they are deeply, deeply connected. Thread one, Okay, 52 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,000 the release of three million and I'm going to say 53 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,759 that again, three million new Epstein files. And these are 54 00:02:33,759 --> 00:02:36,639 not the flight logs we've all seen before. These files 55 00:02:36,759 --> 00:02:41,199 implicate the absolute highest levels of global intelligence of tech 56 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,199 and they draw a very clear line to Israel and 57 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,000 Silicon Valley. 58 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 2: And then there's thread number two. It's going to take 59 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,599 us to the reality on the ground in Gaza, because 60 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,960 here we are, it's twenty twenty six, and we have 61 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,080 to have a really difficult talk about language, about how 62 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,719 a word like ceasefire has been twisted to mean something 63 00:02:57,879 --> 00:02:59,240 very very different from peace. 64 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: We are all going to get to a tool called 65 00:03:01,039 --> 00:03:03,599 jmail a little later on. It might be the single 66 00:03:03,719 --> 00:03:06,840 most dangerous or maybe the most revealing thing on the Internet. 67 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,159 Right now. But let's let's start with the dump three 68 00:03:11,199 --> 00:03:14,639 million files. I mean, just the size of that. How 69 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,479 does any one person even start to process that amount 70 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:17,960 of data? 71 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,599 Speaker 2: Well, they don't. And that's the strategy, isn't It's a 72 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,240 classic info war tactic. If you really want to hide 73 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,800 something important today, you don't lock it away in a 74 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,280 safe no. No, you drown it in a sea of 75 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,599 irrelevant data. You bury it in a mountain of boredom. 76 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,560 The Department of Justice just drops three million files all 77 00:03:35,599 --> 00:03:38,719 at once. They know newsrooms are stretched thin, they know 78 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,919 our attention spans are you shot. It's the ultimate needle 79 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,240 in a haystack scenario. 80 00:03:44,479 --> 00:03:47,759 Speaker 1: But Murtaza Hussein and Monoxi Robbie, they brought a really 81 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:48,919 big magnet, it did, and. 82 00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: It turns out the needle in this particular haystack is radioactive. 83 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: Let's get into the social dynamics here. 84 00:03:54,039 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: First. 85 00:03:54,919 --> 00:03:57,439 Speaker 1: The club, as the sources call it, because when we 86 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,000 usually talk about Epstein, it's always the salacious stuff, right 87 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,680 the island, the plane, the horrible abuse. But these files 88 00:04:04,879 --> 00:04:07,680 they paid a different picture. It's more administrative. 89 00:04:07,759 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: It's the business of evil, it really is. 90 00:04:10,039 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: And you see the names. We all know, Donald Trump, 91 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:16,600 Bill Clinton, Peter teel, Elon Musk, Bill Gates. But it's 92 00:04:16,639 --> 00:04:19,959 the timing of the emails that just it just completely 93 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:20,240 throw me. 94 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 2: The timeline is everything. It is the single most critical 95 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,199 piece of evidence in this whole affair, because the common story, 96 00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:30,680 the narrative that everyone from Bill Gates to you know, 97 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,920 Prince Andrew has tried to sell us is the we 98 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,600 didn't know defense, right, or. 99 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: The oh, as soon as we found out, we cut 100 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:37,680 him off completely exactly. 101 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 2: I met him once at a party, he seemed to 102 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,879 bid odd, never saw him again. That's the boiler plate excuse. 103 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,120 But these emails, they don't just poke holes in that defense, 104 00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:49,600 they vaporize it. The source material points out just how 105 00:04:49,879 --> 00:04:53,079 jarringly friendly, how normal, the emails are after two thousand 106 00:04:53,079 --> 00:04:53,199 and eight. 107 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,199 Speaker 1: Okay, let's pause right there, two thousand and eight, just 108 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,160 to anchor everyone in what that year means in the story. 109 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 2: Right. So, in two thousand and eight, Jeffrey pleads guilty 110 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,000 in Florida, he is convicted for soliciting a child for prostitution. 111 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:09,000 He becomes a registered sex offender, a felon. His mugshot 112 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,240 is everywhere. This is not a rumor at this point, 113 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,120 it is a hard legal fact. 114 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: It's on the public record. He's a known quantity. And 115 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,519 yet you're saying, if you look at these emails from 116 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,360 twenty nine, twenty ten, twenty eleven, the tone doesn't change, 117 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:23,279 It does. 118 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: Not shift an inch. If anything, it gets more sympathetic 119 00:05:27,199 --> 00:05:30,279 towards him. You have emails from some of the most powerful, 120 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:33,040 most respected people in the world offering him personal comfort. 121 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: Wait comfort, yes. 122 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,519 Speaker 2: Consoling the predator because he had a bad run in 123 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,639 with the press. It's surreal. 124 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: That is stomach churning. 125 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: There's one example from the source material that I think 126 00:05:43,079 --> 00:05:46,279 just it could perfectly encapsulates this. Yeah, this moral black hole. 127 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:47,360 And I know you saw this one. 128 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: You have to be talking about, Noam Chomsky. I am, 129 00:05:49,759 --> 00:05:51,759 I have to be honest with you. When I read 130 00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:54,600 that section in the drop site news report, I thought 131 00:05:54,639 --> 00:05:57,639 it had to be a typo. I just I refuse 132 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:02,160 to believe it. Noam Chomsky, author of Manufacturing Consent, the 133 00:06:02,199 --> 00:06:04,959 guy who taught a whole generation of us myself included 134 00:06:05,199 --> 00:06:08,319 how to critique power structures, how to speak for the oppressed. 135 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 2: That's the one. 136 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: And he's in the Epstein inbox. 137 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 2: Oh, he's deep in the Inbox. The files show Chomsky 138 00:06:14,439 --> 00:06:18,360 writing to Epstein and expressing sympathy, sympathy for what he 139 00:06:18,439 --> 00:06:21,079 talks about, the horrible way that the press and the 140 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,879 public were treating Epstein. He's sympathizing with the convicted child 141 00:06:24,959 --> 00:06:27,360 sex offender about his pr problems. 142 00:06:27,439 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: I don't even know how to process that. It's like 143 00:06:29,319 --> 00:06:32,079 finding out that Captain America was secretly working for Hydra 144 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,079 all along. It just breaks your brain. 145 00:06:34,199 --> 00:06:37,519 Speaker 2: It creates a massive cognitive dissonance. And I think that's 146 00:06:37,519 --> 00:06:39,800 why this part of the story is so important. It 147 00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:42,759 shows you that being brilliant or having a public persona 148 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,800 as a moral leader, it doesn't grant you any immunity 149 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:47,800 from being drawn into this this club. 150 00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: And he's not the only one. 151 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: Not by a long shot. You also have Deepak Chopra, 152 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,480 the guru of wellness and spirituality. He's emailing Epstein to 153 00:06:56,519 --> 00:06:59,199 offer him comfort, to send him healing thoughts. 154 00:06:59,399 --> 00:07:01,439 Speaker 1: So you've got the the world's leading intellectual and the 155 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,879 world's leading spiritual guide both What coddling this monster? Why? 156 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,040 What did Epstein have that could make these people just 157 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,079 suspend their basic human decency utility? 158 00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: That is the single most important word in the Al 159 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,519 Jazeera investigation. Epstein wasn't just some rich guy throwing wild parties. 160 00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:20,879 He was a connective node. 161 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:22,639 Speaker 1: A connective node. What does that mean? 162 00:07:22,759 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 2: Think of him like a human router for the global elite. 163 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,959 He directed traffic, He moved money, he moved influence critically, 164 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,439 he moved leverage. He was an elite fixer who operated 165 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,360 completely above the normal rule of law. If you were 166 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,240 a scientist who needed one hundred million dollars for a lab, 167 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,319 you went to Epstein. If you were a politician who 168 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,439 needed a quiet introduction to a tech billionaire, you went 169 00:07:45,439 --> 00:07:46,000 to Epstein. 170 00:07:46,279 --> 00:07:48,319 Speaker 1: So when you're in that club, you don't look at 171 00:07:48,319 --> 00:07:49,160 the criminal record. 172 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 2: You look at the balance sheet, You look at the 173 00:07:51,399 --> 00:07:55,399 contact list. He was useful and that made him untouchable, and. 174 00:07:55,399 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: Maybe because he was compromised, he was safe to be around. 175 00:07:58,199 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: That's a huge part of it. Everyone knew he was dirty, 176 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,000 and that meant everyone felt comfortable being dirty around him. 177 00:08:04,319 --> 00:08:08,839 It's a mutually assured destruction pact that's disguised as a 178 00:08:08,839 --> 00:08:10,000 social circle. 179 00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: Which brings us to the geopolitical side of this, the 180 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,600 thread that for years now the media seems to be 181 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,160 trying to pretend doesn't exist. 182 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,879 Speaker 2: Yes, And before we pull on that thread, we have 183 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,040 to talk about the giant red herring They've been dragging 184 00:08:22,079 --> 00:08:22,480 in front of. 185 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: Us, the Russia connection. 186 00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: The Russia obsession for years. If you turned on cable news, 187 00:08:27,959 --> 00:08:29,920 what was a question about Epstein? It was always is 188 00:08:29,959 --> 00:08:33,279 he a Russian asset? Does Putin have the tapes? Is 189 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:34,840 this how Russia controls Trump? 190 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,799 Speaker 1: I remember it. It was wal to wall coverage for months. 191 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: Well, Mirtaza Hussein at drop site News, he did something 192 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,879 very simple. He just used the search function in the archive. 193 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,559 He searched for Putin. 194 00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: A secret memo, a wire transfer. 195 00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: He found desperation. He found email after email from Epstein 196 00:08:53,759 --> 00:08:56,440 trying to get a meeting with Putin and being ignored, 197 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,120 completely shut down. Epstein wasn't working for Putin, he was 198 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,159 chasing him like an autograph seeker. The files show zero, 199 00:09:03,879 --> 00:09:07,559 and I mean zero, evidence of any Russian intelligence connection. 200 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,799 Speaker 1: So the biggest story of the last five years was 201 00:09:09,919 --> 00:09:13,600 a total dud. But the story that nobody is talking about. 202 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 2: That's where the fire is. The Israel story is concrete, 203 00:09:16,879 --> 00:09:21,200 it is documented. It's not speculation. It's a zalber it's administrative, 204 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,720 its calendar invites and meeting transcripts and contracts, and it 205 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,480 all seems to center on one very very powerful man, 206 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:29,559 a Hood Barack. 207 00:09:29,799 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: Okay, So for listeners who might not follow Israeli politics 208 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,120 that closely, just remind us who is a Hood Barak 209 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:35,960 in this whole ecosystem. 210 00:09:36,039 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: He's a Titan. I mean, he is the Israeli establishment personified, 211 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,440 former Prime Minister, former Defense Minister, former Chief of the 212 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,320 General Staff at the IDF. He's the most decorated soldier 213 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,200 in the history of Israel. He is not some fringe character. 214 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,919 Speaker 1: And he was just hanging out with Epstein. 215 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,759 Speaker 2: Hanging out is way too casual. Epstein was acting as 216 00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:59,320 an advisor, a fixer. He is managing Barack's introductions to 217 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,360 the American and finance elite. 218 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: Okay, I want to drill down on one specific interaction 219 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,320 that the source material pulls out, because this is where 220 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,120 the thread starts to glow, the Pollunteer connection. 221 00:10:10,399 --> 00:10:11,639 Speaker 2: This is the critical juncture. 222 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,879 Speaker 1: This is where it all comes to the Palngeer. We 223 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,639 know them, the big data analytics firm founded by Peter Teel. 224 00:10:17,759 --> 00:10:21,519 They do massive contracts for the CIA, the NSA ICE. 225 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,200 They are for all intents and purposes the private backbone 226 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:26,600 of the American surveillance state. 227 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:28,919 Speaker 2: They're the company that promises to see the future by 228 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,240 analyzing the present. They know everything about everyone. 229 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: So the source site's a transcript of a phone call. 230 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,600 It's from twenty thirteen. Now, remember this is five full 231 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,879 years after Epstein's conviction as a sex offender. Who's on 232 00:10:40,919 --> 00:10:41,240 the call. 233 00:10:41,519 --> 00:10:45,519 Speaker 2: It's Jeffrey Epstein and Ehud Barack. And the subject isn't parties, 234 00:10:45,799 --> 00:10:50,200 it's not vacations. It's business strategy, high level corporate strategy. 235 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: And what exactly are they discussing. 236 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,519 Speaker 2: Epstein is explicitly on this call talking about Peter Teel 237 00:10:56,799 --> 00:10:59,639 putting Ehud Barock on the board of Palenteer. He is 238 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,879 person brokering a marriage between the former head of the 239 00:11:02,919 --> 00:11:07,759 Israeli military intelligence apparatus and the most powerful private surveillance 240 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:08,799 company in America. 241 00:11:08,879 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: And did it happen? Did he get on the board? 242 00:11:10,639 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 2: It wasn't just talk. We don't know about the board 243 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,320 seats specifically. But two years later, in twenty fifteen, Pallanteer 244 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,559 opens its first major office in Tel Aviv. 245 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack the implications of that, because on the surface, 246 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,279 that sounds like a boring business headline, right company opens office, 247 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,080 But what does that actually mean. 248 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 2: It means integration, means a fusion of capabilities. You have 249 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,240 to understand what Palenteer really does. It takes huge, messy 250 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,159 data sets from all over the world and finds patterns 251 00:11:38,159 --> 00:11:40,919 from intelligence agencies. And then you have to understand the 252 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,480 Israeli tech world. It is overwhelmingly driven by veterans of 253 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,720 elite IDF intelligence units, specifically Unit eighty two hundred and 254 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:49,559 Unit eighty one. 255 00:11:49,639 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: Unit eighty two hundred remind us think of. 256 00:11:51,799 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: It as Israel's version of the NSA, but with a 257 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:57,960 revolving door that leads directly into the startup sector. Almost 258 00:11:58,039 --> 00:12:01,559 every major Israeli cybersecurity is a veteran of Unit eighty 259 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,440 two hundred. It is the absolute elite of the elite 260 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:05,559 in cyber intelligence. 261 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: So what you're saying is Jeffrey Epstein, a convicted sex offender, 262 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,799 is the middleman facilitating a merger between America's top private 263 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,080 surveillance company in Israel's top military intelligence pipeline. 264 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 2: Precisely, and this is where this idea of private sector 265 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,799 intelligence comes in. The source argues very convincingly that Epstein 266 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,559 wasn't a spy in the way we think of spies. Yeah, 267 00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:30,840 you know, James Bond in a trench cot right, that's. 268 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: The movie version, no secret DoD drops. 269 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,399 Speaker 2: The reality is far more subtle and frankly, far more dangerous. 270 00:12:38,039 --> 00:12:41,080 He was practicing private sector intelligence. He was using his 271 00:12:41,159 --> 00:12:44,720 personal and financial connections to forge state level alliances that 272 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,559 directly benefited the strategic interests of Israel. Voluntarily, he was 273 00:12:49,639 --> 00:12:53,279 personally enhancing the technological and surveillance capabilities of a foreign 274 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,679 power by leveraging his influence in Silicon Valley. 275 00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: But why, what was his motivation? Was he just a 276 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,840 passionate Zionist the source? 277 00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:04,639 Speaker 2: It was purely about leverage, about power. Epstein saw himself 278 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,440 as a kind of transnational figure above the laws of 279 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,840 any one country. If he could be the guy who 280 00:13:09,919 --> 00:13:13,399 connects the Israeli military to Peter Teal, he makes himself 281 00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:17,000 indispensable to both sides. He becomes too powerful to prosecute, 282 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,600 too connected to fail, too big to jail exactly, And 283 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,000 yet he did end up back in jail eventually. 284 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:24,799 Speaker 1: Eventually. 285 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: Look at how long it took, Look the sweetheart deals 286 00:13:27,159 --> 00:13:29,240 he got. Look at who was still visiting him, who's 287 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,759 still emailing him years after he should have been a 288 00:13:31,799 --> 00:13:37,919 total pariah. That private sector intelligence shield. It worked for 289 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,559 a very, very long time. 290 00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: It's just terrifying the idea that our global geopolitical reality, 291 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,279 who has access to our data, who is tracking our movements, 292 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,360 was being brokered in the living room of a predator. 293 00:13:49,399 --> 00:13:51,919 Speaker 2: He gives a whole new meaning to the phrase dirty data, 294 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:52,639 doesn't it? 295 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: It really does. But here's the question that is just 296 00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:58,399 driving me crazy. We have the emails, we have the 297 00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:02,039 phone transcripts, we have the day, it's the names. Why 298 00:14:02,159 --> 00:14:05,000 is this not the lead story on every single news 299 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,559 network tonight? Why are we here on thrilling threads having 300 00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:13,039 to piece this together from an Al Jazeera report. 301 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,279 Speaker 2: The source has a name for this. They call it 302 00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:19,879 the ecosystem of Silence, and the critique they make is well, 303 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,200 it's scathing. It suggests that the media elites in the 304 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,960 US aren't just missing the story, they are actively avoiding 305 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,759 it because they are socially embedded with the very people 306 00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:30,919 they're supposed to be covering. 307 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: The part of the club. 308 00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:33,799 Speaker 2: They go to the same dinner parties in the Hamptons, 309 00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:36,799 their kids go to the same elite private schools to 310 00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:39,440 report on this honestly would be to blow up their 311 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:40,360 own social lives. 312 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: There is one story in the source material about David 313 00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:44,960 Brooks from the New York Times that I think just 314 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,000 perfectly illustrates this whole ecosystem. 315 00:14:47,039 --> 00:14:49,519 Speaker 2: Oh, the David Brooks incident. This one is, I mean, 316 00:14:49,519 --> 00:14:51,840 it's so perfect in his hypocrisy you couldn't write it 317 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:52,399 in a novel. 318 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:53,399 Speaker 1: Lay it out for us. 319 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: Okay, So, a while back, David Brooks, the very serious, 320 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,399 thoughtful columnist for the New York Times. He writes a 321 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,759 column and in this column he argues that the media 322 00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:07,759 should just stop covering Jeffrey Epstein. 323 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,279 Speaker 1: Why. 324 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: He says, it's distasteful. It's sensationalists, We're giving a criminal 325 00:15:12,519 --> 00:15:15,799 too much oxygen. The basic argument was, let's move on, 326 00:15:15,919 --> 00:15:17,000 there's nothing to see here. 327 00:15:17,159 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: Let's all be grown ups and talk about more important things. 328 00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:24,519 Speaker 2: Right. It sounded very high minded, a plea for journalistic standards. 329 00:15:25,159 --> 00:15:28,080 But then a little while after this column is published, 330 00:15:28,279 --> 00:15:30,200 a photo emerges, and. 331 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,639 Speaker 1: I'm guessing it wasn't a photo of David Brooks volunteering 332 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:33,399 at a food bank. 333 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,679 Speaker 2: Not quite. It was a photo of David Brooks in 334 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,519 a meeting with Jeffrey Epstein. 335 00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: You have got to be kidding me. He is literally 336 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,360 telling the rest of the world to look away while 337 00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:43,279 he himself is sitting at the table with the guy. 338 00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:46,279 Speaker 2: And that's not even the worst part. The crucial detail 339 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:49,720 is he never disclosed it. When he wrote that column 340 00:15:49,799 --> 00:15:52,600 telling everyone to ignore Epstein. He didn't add a little 341 00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:55,039 note at the bottom saying, full disclosure, I've met with 342 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,799 a subject to this column. He hit it. He is 343 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,360 the ultimate conspect of interest. 344 00:15:59,639 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: It's if you're gaslighting. He's telling his readers, you're the 345 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,519 ones who are obsessed. Well, he's the one who's complicit. 346 00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:07,039 Speaker 2: And that's why the Israel angle is radioactive in the 347 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,039 mainstream press. If you really pull that thread, you don't 348 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,360 just find Ehud Barak. You find the powerful people who 349 00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:16,720 invested with Barack. You find the journalists who interviewed those people. 350 00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:19,440 You find the publishers who gave them book deals. The 351 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,240 web is just too dense, it's too close to. 352 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: Home, an ecosystem of silence, and that silence is a weapon, 353 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,559 which that actually brings us directly to the second part 354 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,559 of our show today, because we're seeing the exact same 355 00:16:32,679 --> 00:16:36,440 mechanism the same kind of information control being used right 356 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,080 now today in twenty twenty six, to hide a war. 357 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,759 Speaker 2: In plain sight, it is the exact same playbook, different continent, 358 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,559 much higher body count, but the playbook is identical. 359 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: Let's pivot to Gaza. It's February twenty twenty six. If 360 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,600 you just read the headlines in the US or Europe, 361 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:52,639 what's the story you see? 362 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: You see peace process, ceasefire, holding talks on reconstruction. 363 00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:01,279 Speaker 1: You see a picture of progress, of stability, A deal 364 00:17:01,399 --> 00:17:05,519 was signed. What back in October twenty twenty five, President 365 00:17:05,559 --> 00:17:08,680 Trump took a victory lap. The official narrative is the 366 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:09,400 war is over. 367 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: But the reality on the ground, according to the reporting 368 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,680 from drop site news in Al Jazeera, is what they're 369 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,680 calling a ceasefire mirage. 370 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: A mirage. That is the perfect word for it, because 371 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,480 from far away it looks like water, it looks like peace, 372 00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:25,839 But when you get up close, if you are actually 373 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,960 living in Gaza, it is nothing but sand, in heat 374 00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:29,559 and death. 375 00:17:29,759 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: Let's just look at the number. Since this so called 376 00:17:31,759 --> 00:17:34,759 ceasefire was signed in October, Israel has killed more than 377 00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:36,079 five hundred Palestinians. 378 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: Five hundred people. 379 00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 2: Now in the brutal calculus of this conflict. After tens 380 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:41,920 and tens of thousands died in twenty twenty four and 381 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,640 twenty twenty five, a number like five hundred might sound 382 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,960 low to the international community, and that's the trap. The 383 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,559 source argues, this isn't the ceasefire. It's not a cessation 384 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,599 of violence. It's limited restraint. It's and this is a 385 00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:55,519 direct quote, genocide with a pause button. 386 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: Genocide with a pause button. That isn't That's a horrific phrase. 387 00:17:59,279 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: But it's accurate because the violence never actually paused. It 388 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,279 just slowed down to a rate that the world is 389 00:18:04,279 --> 00:18:07,359 willing to ignore. The argument is that as long as 390 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,240 the death toll stays in the single or double digits 391 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,680 each day, as long as there isn't one single massive 392 00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:17,039 bombing that kills two hundred people at once, the world 393 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,559 just looks away. It fades into the background noise of 394 00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:21,880 the twenty four hour news cycle. 395 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,519 Speaker 1: It becomes a palatable level of violence. 396 00:18:24,079 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 2: A manageable atrocity, exactly. And we have to talk about 397 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,000 the numbers themselves, the total casualty figures, because this is 398 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:32,440 a huge part of the information war. The official count, 399 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,880 the one you hear quoted, which even the Israeli government 400 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,759 has now kind of quietly acknowledged is accurate, is around 401 00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:38,799 seventy one thousand dead. 402 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:40,839 Speaker 1: Seventy one thousand, I mean, that's the size of a 403 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:41,960 city just gone. 404 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,279 Speaker 2: But that's just the confirmed count. That's bodies that have 405 00:18:45,319 --> 00:18:49,160 been physically recovered, brought to a hospital or morgue, identified 406 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,880 and registered. The source we're looking at discusses detailed studies 407 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,240 from The Lancet and the Economist, and we have to 408 00:18:55,279 --> 00:18:59,039 stress these are not fringe activist groups. These are conservative, 409 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:04,400 peer reviewed, mainstream institutions, and their analysis suggests the real 410 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,440 number is significantly over one hundred thousand, maybe as high 411 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:08,799 as one hundred and eighty thousand dead. 412 00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:12,519 Speaker 1: How how is that possible? How do you lose one 413 00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:14,279 hundred thousand people from the official count? 414 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 2: You bury them, or rather you just you don't unbury them. 415 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,160 The reporting here is crucial. For the last two years, 416 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,319 Israel has maintained a ban on so called dual use 417 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,960 items entering gaza. Right. 418 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: We've heard about that for things like medical supplies and 419 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,680 building materials. 420 00:19:28,319 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 2: But it also applies to heavy machinery, to bulldozers, to cranes, 421 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,680 to excavators, all the equipment you would need to lift 422 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,039 a ten ton slab of collapse concrete off of a 423 00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:37,119 flattened apartment building. 424 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: So the rubble from twenty twenty four is it's still there. 425 00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 2: The rubble is still there, which means the bodies are 426 00:19:43,279 --> 00:19:46,839 still under it, uncounted, unidentified. The source calls this a 427 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,920 deliberate tactic of undercounting. If you ban the equipment needed 428 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,839 to clear the rubble, you are effectively banning the ability 429 00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:57,359 to count the dead. You keep the official number artificially low, 430 00:19:57,839 --> 00:20:00,720 you keep it palatable for your international allies. 431 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: That is, that's a level of bureaucratic cruelty that's hard 432 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,519 to even comprehend. You're manipulating the spreadsheet of death by 433 00:20:06,519 --> 00:20:08,720 controlling the supply chain of bulldozers. 434 00:20:08,799 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: It is, and it feeds directly into what the source 435 00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:14,359 calls the two truths phenomenon. We saw it with the 436 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,400 Epstein files. One story for the insiders, another for the public. 437 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,880 We are seeing the exact same thing here. 438 00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: Okay, break that down for us. What are the two 439 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,960 truths of the Gaza ceasefire? 440 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: So truth number one is for the international audience. If 441 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,799 you're watching CNN in New York or the BBC in 442 00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:33,519 London today in February twenty twenty six. You're hearing about 443 00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:38,279 the ceasefire holding, maybe some minor skirmishes, but overall the 444 00:20:38,279 --> 00:20:41,240 Trump peace plan is being tested. The language is all 445 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,200 very soft, very diplomatic, fragile progress. 446 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: Okay, that's what we hear. 447 00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:47,839 Speaker 2: But then there's truth number two. This is for the 448 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,000 domestic Israeli audience. The source material sites Israeli media outlets, 449 00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:56,240 specifically Channel fourteen and the newspaper Marieve, and if you 450 00:20:56,279 --> 00:20:59,319 read the reporting in Hebrew, you get a completely different reality. 451 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,759 They are not talking about peace. They are openly reporting 452 00:21:02,759 --> 00:21:06,279 that the IDF is preparing for large scale attacks in 453 00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:09,599 the coming weeks. They discuss the imminent collapse of the 454 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,720 Trump peace plan not as a possibility, but as an inevitability. 455 00:21:14,079 --> 00:21:16,559 Speaker 1: So let me get this straight. The Israeli public is 456 00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:19,559 being told, don't worry, the war isn't really over, We're 457 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,000 just reloading, and the American public is being told, don't worry, 458 00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:25,519 the war is over. You can stop paying attention. Now. 459 00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:28,759 Speaker 2: That is precisely it. It is a split screen reality. 460 00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:31,400 The theory from the source is that the Israeli government 461 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,920 tells the truth to its own people, because it needs 462 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,400 to reassure its far right political base that they haven't 463 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,960 gone soft. But they lie to the international press to 464 00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:43,920 avoid sanctions, to avoid diplomatic pressure from Washington to keep 465 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,160 the military aid flowing. 466 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,559 Speaker 1: In the international media, they just buy it. They don't 467 00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:48,440 see the other screen. 468 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: They enable it. There's a fascinating dynamic. The source points out. 469 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,799 When an idea of spokesperson gives a briefing to the 470 00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:58,319 New York Times, they use the soft diplomatic language, But 471 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,400 when that same spokesperson goes on Channel four thirteen an 472 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,359 hour later, they're much more blunt about the violence. But 473 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,279 the Western media outlets almost never report what's being said 474 00:22:06,319 --> 00:22:09,359 on Israeli television in Hebrew. They just print the English 475 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,920 language press release they were handed. 476 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: It's wilful ignorance. It's journalistic malpractice. 477 00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 2: It's also, i think, just media fatigue. The source sites 478 00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:21,200 data from fairness and accuracy in reporting or fair and 479 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,319 it shows that media coverage of Gazo peaked in late 480 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,759 twenty twenty four early twenty twenty five the second the 481 00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:30,480 word ceasefire was announced. Coverage just fell off a. 482 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,599 Speaker 1: Cliff, out of sight, out of mind, but out. 483 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 2: Of sight isn't an accident, it's an active policy. We 484 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,960 are now, what more than two years into this, our 485 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,240 international journalists still banned from entering Gaza independently. 486 00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:45,039 Speaker 1: They are still the Israeli Supreme Court is just slow 487 00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:48,119 walking the legal challenges. They just granted the government another 488 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,240 two month extension to prepare its arguments for why the 489 00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:52,319 ban is necessary. 490 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 2: Two months after two years, what arguments could they possibly 491 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,920 still be preparing. The argument is the delay itself. Every 492 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,359 single day that a CNN camera crew is not filming 493 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,640 inside con units is a victory for the narrative managers. 494 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: So the only people who can report from inside are 495 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,640 Palestinian journalists. 496 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,079 Speaker 2: And this is the most insidious part of the whole strategy. 497 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,599 The source argues, there's a systematic process to dehumanize and 498 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,880 discredit those local journalists. First, the international media outlets often 499 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,519 discount their reporting as inherently biased, and then if their 500 00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:29,559 footage is too compelling to ignore, the IDF will often 501 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,559 just smear the journalist, claiming they're Hamas affiliated, to retroactively 502 00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:35,480 invalidate their work. 503 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: So you create a perfect information vacuum. You ban the 504 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,400 outsiders who are seen as impartial, and you slander the 505 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,680 insiders who are the only. 506 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 2: Witnesses, and in that vacuum of truth, you can do 507 00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:47,559 whatever you want with total impunity. The sources theory on 508 00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:51,240 the endgame here is what's pretty chilling. They believe Israel's 509 00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:54,200 goal is to maintain this media blackout until the reconstruction 510 00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:57,880 phase begins. Why the optics, purely optics. They want the 511 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,839 very first high definition professional images the world sees from 512 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,079 Gaza in years to be of cranes building new high rises, 513 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,440 paved roads, a new Gaza rising from the ashes. They 514 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,279 do not want the world to see what one witness 515 00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:17,519 in the report described as entire cities vaporized into dust. 516 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: There is a detail in that report, a sensory detail 517 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,319 that it's just stuck with me for days. 518 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 2: I think, I know you're going to say the smell. 519 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, the witness described this thick, inescapable stench of gunpowder 520 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,599 and decomposing bodies that just hangs over the entire Gaza strip. 521 00:24:31,759 --> 00:24:34,279 You can't capture that in a press release, no, And. 522 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: That's the reality they're trying to pave over. Literally, if 523 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,519 cameras were allowed in today, right now, they would be 524 00:24:39,519 --> 00:24:42,319 filming an active crime scene Israel is just playing for time. 525 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,240 They're waiting until they can clean up the evidence before 526 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:45,000 they let the jury in. 527 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: It's all. It's incredibly heavy, and it can feel so 528 00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:50,960 hopeless when you see the scale of this control, control 529 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,319 of the borders, control of the media, narrative, control of 530 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:54,559 a dead man's inbox. 531 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 2: It does it feels overwhelming. But this is why we 532 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,960 do this show. This is why it's called thrilling threat. 533 00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:02,519 Because there are always cracks in the wall. There are 534 00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:04,599 always people pulling at the threads. 535 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,319 Speaker 1: And sometimes those people build tools to help the rest 536 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:08,400 of us pull them too. 537 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 2: Which brings us finally to Jmail. 538 00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: I promise we would talk about this. I have to 539 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,000 admit I went to the site myself this morning just 540 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:15,480 to see it. 541 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,039 Speaker 2: And what did you see? What was your first impression? 542 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,039 Speaker 1: It looks like a Google product. I mean, it's that clean, 543 00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:24,720 simple blue and white interface. The name is jmail. It 544 00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:27,640 was created by two people, Luke Eigel and Riley Woltz. 545 00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 2: It's a brilliant piece of design. Yeah, it's user interface 546 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,240 design as a form of political protest. 547 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,319 Speaker 1: It really is, because usually when you get access to 548 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,519 a big document leak, it's a total mess, right, it's 549 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,319 thousands of blurry pdapps and a chaotic folder structure, feels 550 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,920 like homework. But jmail. Jmail makes the entire Epstein archive 551 00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:51,480 look and feel and function exactly like your personal email. 552 00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 2: And that's the genius of it. It completely democratizes the investigation. 553 00:25:56,799 --> 00:25:58,559 You don't need to be a DOJ lawyer with some 554 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,240 fancy forensic software anymore. All you need to know is 555 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,119 how to use a search bar. 556 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: I did it. I typed in gates just one word 557 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,799 and instantly it populates subject lines, pop up meeting, dinner, 558 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,559 follow up on proposal. It doesn't feel like you're examining 559 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,319 evidence in a federal case. It feels like you're snooping 560 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:19,599 on a coworker's computer. 561 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 2: And that feeling, that slightly voyeuristic, slightly dirty feeling, that's 562 00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:27,480 incredibly powerful. It breaks down the wall between you and 563 00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:29,640 the subject. It puts you in the room with the monster. 564 00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:32,079 Speaker 1: Creators actually put a warning on the homepage. They say, 565 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,240 using it will leave you with an unsettling, creepy feeling, 566 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,519 and they are one hundred percent right. 567 00:26:37,559 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 2: It's that banality of evil all over again. You'll see 568 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,720 an email from Epstein about, you know, getting his toaster fixed, 569 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,319 and then the very next email is who I'm setting 570 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,480 up a billion dollar deal with a head of state? 571 00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:49,319 All in the same font. It flattens the hierarchy of 572 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,200 evil into this mundane searchable list. 573 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: Why did they build it? What was a catalyst? 574 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,759 Speaker 2: Accountability? Drop Site News partnered with them, and the reason 575 00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:01,160 they gave is that they believe the Department of Justice 576 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,680 under Trump was deliberately slowing down the release of the 577 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:06,599 remaining files. 578 00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: So the fear was that the most incriminating stuff was 579 00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:12,359 being held back or released so slowly that we'd all 580 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,400 lose interest and move on exactly. 581 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,839 Speaker 2: So jmail is an active defiance against that. It's a 582 00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:21,519 way to weaponize public curiosity. If you dump three million 583 00:27:21,559 --> 00:27:24,880 files in a ZIP folder on some obscure government website, 584 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,279 almost no one will look. But if you put those 585 00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:30,599 same three million files behind a simple Gmail like search bar, 586 00:27:31,079 --> 00:27:34,720 everyone will look. You're effectively crowdsourcing the biggest criminal investigation 587 00:27:34,759 --> 00:27:35,279 of our time. 588 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,759 Speaker 1: It's a tool for the curious, for sure, but it's 589 00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:40,200 also a weapon against that ecosystem of silence you were 590 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:40,640 talking about. 591 00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 2: It is. It's a digital thread pillar. 592 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,519 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's try to tie these two massive, heavy 593 00:27:46,519 --> 00:27:50,119 threads together. We've gone from the penthouses of Manhattan and 594 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,279 the secure boardrooms of Palaneer all the way to the 595 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,160 rubble filled streets of Gaza. We've talked about tech billionaires 596 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,440 and starving children. What is the connective to shoe? What 597 00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:03,440 holds these two seemingly separate stories together. 598 00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 2: I think, if you step all the way back, both 599 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,720 of these stories are about one single powerful concept, impunity. 600 00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:15,880 Impunity absolutely think about the Epstein case. What you're seeing 601 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,559 is a textbook example of how power, money, and connective 602 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,160 utility can shield a predator for decades. He was useful 603 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,960 to the state, He was useful to powerful people in 604 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,240 the intelligence counity, he was useful to the tech sector. 605 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,880 And because he was useful, the law simply did not 606 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,519 apply to him in the same way it applies to 607 00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:30,960 you or me. 608 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,799 Speaker 1: He was a protected asset. He was. 609 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 2: And then you look at Gaza and you see impunity 610 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,720 on a state level. You see how the total control 611 00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:43,359 of a narrative and the total physical control of a 612 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,559 border allows a government to operate without consequences. It allows 613 00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:50,559 them to redefine the word cease fire until it means 614 00:28:50,599 --> 00:28:53,000 the opposite of what it says. It allows seventy one 615 00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:55,240 thousand deaths to be treated as a rounding error. 616 00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: It all comes down to controlling the flow of information. 617 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 2: Yes, the truth in our world isn't usually hidden in 618 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,680 a lock safe with a laser grid. It's hidden in 619 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,960 a pile of paperwork that's too big and too boring 620 00:29:07,079 --> 00:29:09,799 for anyone to read. Or it's hidden behind a concrete 621 00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:11,759 wall that no journalist is allowed. 622 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,799 Speaker 1: To cross until now, until a tool like jmail or 623 00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:17,440 a deep dive investigation like the one from Al Jazeera 624 00:29:17,799 --> 00:29:19,720 just kicks the door open a crack. 625 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 2: That's the hope, isn't it. Impunity can only survive in 626 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:23,480 the dark. 627 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: That, for me is the thrilling takeaway today. The threads 628 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,079 are always there. You just have to be willing to 629 00:29:28,079 --> 00:29:30,440 pull on them, even if they're covered in grime, even 630 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,279 if they lead to people you once admired, like a 631 00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:35,440 Noam Chomsky, even if they lead to some really uncomfortable 632 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,039 truths about who your own government considers its allies. 633 00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:40,559 Speaker 2: You have to be willing to look at those uncomfortable 634 00:29:40,599 --> 00:29:45,119 connections to ask the hard questions, why is a private 635 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,039 American surveillance company being discussed on a phone call between 636 00:29:49,079 --> 00:29:52,640 a convicted sex offender and a former Israeli prime minister? 637 00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:57,279 Why does a ceasefire include five hundred dead bodies in 638 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:58,200 just four months? 639 00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:00,559 Speaker 1: So I have a question for you, for everyone and listening. 640 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,240 We've talked a lot today about how media narratives can 641 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,319 shape our reality. So I ask you, do you trust 642 00:30:06,319 --> 00:30:09,359 the label cease fire when the casualty count just keeps 643 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,359 ticking up? What does that word even mean to you anymore? 644 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 2: And on that other darker thread. 645 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,799 Speaker 1: Regarding Epstein, if you had access to jmail right now, 646 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,480 and you do, it's out there on the web, who 647 00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:21,880 is the very first person you would search for? And 648 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,000 more importantly, are you prepared for what you might find? Because, 649 00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:27,440 as we've learned today, the names on that list, they 650 00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:28,680 might just break your brain a little. 651 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,079 Speaker 2: That's a dangerous search bar, but maybe a necessary one. 652 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:33,839 Speaker 1: We want to hear what you think. Please leave a comment, 653 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,359 tell us what your theory is about the Israel angle blackout. 654 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,799 Why do you think the American media was so eager 655 00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:41,519 to chase the Russia story for years but is so 656 00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:42,920 terrified of this one. 657 00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: I'll definitely be reading those comments. It's a conversation we 658 00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:48,319 have to have because it's pretty clear that mainstream news 659 00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:49,319 isn't going to have it for us. 660 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,759 Speaker 1: Absolutely, keep pulling the threads. You never know what's going 661 00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:56,200 to unravel. We'll see you next time on Thrilling Threads