Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pecana Show.
Speaker 1: I am here with Ernst and Rob. How are you, gentlemen, Joan,
Speaker 1: I'm good, Thanks new doing good?
Speaker 2: Rob?
Speaker 3: Oh, pretty grand, Pretty grand.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give each of you, gentlemen individually a
Speaker 1: chance to just give a quick introduction to your tell
Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself. Ernest, why don't you go first?
Speaker 4: Well, Well, the short version of it is, I work
Speaker 4: for AFRI Forum, the largest of all rights organization in
Speaker 4: the Southern Hemisphere. I'm a campaign's office for strategy and
Speaker 4: content there. But that's my occupation and my job. But
Speaker 4: then also part of my hobby that's also connected to
Speaker 4: my job is my YouTube channel and my Twitter account
Speaker 4: where I comment on all things from regarding culture politics
Speaker 4: here at the southern tip of Africa specifically. Well, I
Speaker 4: started off when I created my channel by commenting a
Speaker 4: lot more on things abroad, politics in America and Europe.
Speaker 4: But then I just started focusing a lot more on
Speaker 4: South Africa and Africa, seeing as there are millions of
Speaker 4: people much better and stronger and smarter than me, stronger
Speaker 4: in their thoughts when it comes to an analysis on
Speaker 4: America and Europe and whatever they can focus on that.
Speaker 4: I'm going to focus on Africa and South Africa that
Speaker 4: I know, the part of the world that I experienced,
Speaker 4: the part of the world that I can do a
Speaker 4: BS test firsthand if something is true or not, just
Speaker 4: maybe a final thought there when it comes to that
Speaker 4: idea of being on the ground. It's the strangest thing
Speaker 4: when you hear other pundits or other commentators discuss the
Speaker 4: country that you live in but people abroad, and you
Speaker 4: just realize they're just talking the most absolute, just nonsense,
Speaker 4: like whatever they're saying is just absolutely, verifiably not true,
Speaker 4: and their audience is just eating it up. And You're
Speaker 4: sitting there in the audience thinking like, this guy is
Speaker 4: talking about what I know personally, and they're just talking
Speaker 4: the biggest amount of just absolute nonsense and rubbish. But
Speaker 4: and that's what I try to avoid. That's why I
Speaker 4: made a conscious decision to do less analysis on US
Speaker 4: and European politics and to stick to what I know,
Speaker 4: because I see those commentators in America and in Europe
Speaker 4: talk about South Africa and they just completely missing the target.
Speaker 4: And then I think to myself, what if that is
Speaker 4: me when I'm talking about America about a European politics.
Speaker 4: What if that's exactly what I'm doing. Americans are sitting
Speaker 4: there listening to the South African talk about their country
Speaker 4: and they're just like, this guy doesn't.
Speaker 3: Get it at all.
Speaker 4: He's just completely drank the kool aid and the propaganda
Speaker 4: out there. So that's why that's the purpose of my
Speaker 4: commentary is to talk about what I know best and
Speaker 4: what I know personally.
Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense, Rob.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I've also done some work for the same
Speaker 3: organization after form. Although I'm I'm a freelance consultant, I'm
Speaker 3: working for a couple of other I'm working for a
Speaker 3: couple of other people at the moment, but I can't
Speaker 3: really talk about them right now. And my but my
Speaker 3: big thing that I spend sort of a lot of
Speaker 3: my free time doing is is trying to assist the
Speaker 3: Cape Independence movement in various ways. And there some big
Speaker 3: moves coming up in apergot that should be fun. I mean,
Speaker 3: of course, it's it's not something that has a guaranteed
Speaker 3: shot it you know, it's not guaranteed success. But the
Speaker 3: way I see it is it's necessary because it's the
Speaker 3: only bit of the country that really can be saved from,
Speaker 3: you know, total collapse. Really, I mean if the Cape
Speaker 3: guys always got left is Africana enclaves critism and.
Speaker 5: It's like, yeah, it's it's it's not the most ideal
Speaker 5: situation because then you know, you isolated tiny pockets of
Speaker 5: resented minorities and it's an ocean of hostiles.
Speaker 3: It's not it's not my idea of a party.
Speaker 1: We'll talk more about that. Why don't why don't we
Speaker 1: find out how you know, the history? How did your
Speaker 1: families get to South Africa?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 6: The peak.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to indicate who you want to start,
Speaker 1: all right, Ernest you start because I know that I
Speaker 1: know you can be a little more brief than rob.
Speaker 6: Let's.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's go for a well on the question of
Speaker 4: what where my family comes from and now they ended
Speaker 4: up at the southern tip of Africa. There's a lot
Speaker 4: to unpack there, but I'll keep it brief because there's
Speaker 4: a lot to talk about in the broader picture. So, yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm the descendant of a mish mash of just West Europeans.
Speaker 4: So my ancestors are Germans, Dutch, French, Higuenots, Belgians, and Scots,
Speaker 4: and that's what we know about, and a lot of
Speaker 4: them have very interesting histories. The Dutch the typical people
Speaker 4: coming to South Africa for mostly fortune seekers or for
Speaker 4: a job or for a new start somewhere. French Huguenots,
Speaker 4: of course, are fleeing religious persecutions. So they're not coming
Speaker 4: to South Africa to make money or to create a
Speaker 4: new life, or to escape just the monotony of their existence.
Speaker 4: They're coming to South Africa. They're fleeing for their lives,
Speaker 4: so they're coming to South Africa. And that's actually first,
Speaker 4: my first ancestor chronologically came here in sixteen eighty eight,
Speaker 4: and he was a French Huguenot. His name was Paul
Speaker 4: Rue and he came here in sixteen eighty eight. But
Speaker 4: then also my surname van Zel that that ancestor came
Speaker 4: I think a little bit later in sixteen forty sixteen
Speaker 4: ninety four and he was Vilim Fansel. And then yeah,
Speaker 4: in the meantime since then, also a lot of other influences,
Speaker 4: a lot of Germans, a lot of other French Huguenots.
Speaker 4: But yeah, that's the story. The story of my family
Speaker 4: lineage is the story of the Afrikaners. I think most
Speaker 4: of the European ethnicities that form that melded together to
Speaker 4: form the Afrikaners are in my lineage and are in
Speaker 4: the majority of Afrikaners lineage. And it's and that's the thing.
Speaker 4: The big misconception that a lot of people abroad make
Speaker 4: is they think, oh, the English speaking whites and South
Speaker 4: Africa are the descendants of the Brits, and the Afrikaans
Speaker 4: speaking whites are the descendants of the Dutch. That's that's
Speaker 4: not true. The Afrikaners are the descendants are mainly the
Speaker 4: descendants of the Dutch, French and Germans. Those three groups
Speaker 4: we take one of them art it's a major piece
Speaker 4: of the puzzle that you're missing. So those three groups
Speaker 4: are the main ingredients in making the Africana specifically, and
Speaker 4: those are all in my lineage as well. Just a
Speaker 4: funny story to end off with. I mentioned this in
Speaker 4: my I Am seventeen seventy six piece that I wrote recently,
Speaker 4: A Time to do Trenches. My Scottish ancestor was on
Speaker 4: his way to New Zealand and then he kicked the
Speaker 4: captain's dog on the way there and he got thrown
Speaker 4: off in South Africa and that's h and then he
Speaker 4: I mean, this isn't a time where he doesn't he
Speaker 4: can't just wait until the next morning when the next
Speaker 4: boat arrives, like he's stuck here now, like his fate
Speaker 4: is not tied to the African continent for quite a while.
Speaker 4: And yeah, if that didn't happen, I wouldn't exist, crazy, right, Oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean some of the stuff. I mean, there's
Speaker 3: a funny per since there so Paul Rue, I don't
Speaker 3: know what the state of the farm is not. I
Speaker 3: haven't been to back to visit it since I've moved
Speaker 3: back to my hometown. But I used to play and
Speaker 3: go to Sunday School with Actually no, he never came
Speaker 3: to Sunday School. I suppose with him because my friend
Speaker 3: as Farmer's neighboring is. But there's a kid called Paul
Speaker 3: Rue who who's a directorcendant of that Paul Roue. So
Speaker 3: I've met one of your relatives indirectly. But yeah, sort of.
Speaker 3: My ancestors are also French Huguenots. My Irish surname comes from.
Speaker 4: A sort of.
Speaker 3: You know, well, Irish people who went to went to
Speaker 3: serve the colonial administration in India, and so one of
Speaker 3: my ancestors is born in Pakistan, but that one of
Speaker 3: the family married into Danish and Swedish and then and
Speaker 3: then on my other side a bunch of you know,
Speaker 3: Scots and English and Irish people, funnily enough, no Welsh,
Speaker 3: but yeah, and then you know, like all whiteside Africans,
Speaker 3: you know, Adamson I will both share a tiny drop
Speaker 3: of cooisand blood because being around for that long, you know,
Speaker 3: the first settlers, for the first fifty years, there were
Speaker 3: no European women to speak over really, and so they
Speaker 3: made free with.
Speaker 4: For a long time, not just for the first year
Speaker 4: or so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for the first I think it's not. For the
Speaker 3: first fifty there were very few. And then after that
Speaker 3: you've got some you got some French women in there,
Speaker 3: but yeah, that is a fair amount of times. So
Speaker 3: everyone's got like about I think I think the average
Speaker 3: is like, you know, four to six percent of lated,
Speaker 3: some more, some less, but generally speaking around there and yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean like, but my family a few generations ago,
Speaker 3: they were supported smarts, the Party were and for like
Speaker 3: fusion between English and Africans communities, they raised their children
Speaker 3: speaking English. So my family is sort of like a
Speaker 3: modeled mixture of English and Africans spilingualism, and yeah, tied
Speaker 3: to Thevinelands.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, I think both of us are because of our
Speaker 3: deep connections and sort of family's obsession of genealogy. You know,
Speaker 3: we've got a very deep rooted sense of our history
Speaker 3: in place here, you know, where the skeletons are buried,
Speaker 3: and the ability for you know, the rest of society
Speaker 3: to shock us with our ancestors, you know, crimes is
Speaker 3: somewhat diminished, so.
Speaker 4: You can't really be shamed. You you can't really be
Speaker 4: shamed for your ancestors conduct if you have a very
Speaker 4: deep and intimate knowledge of your ancestors conduct.
Speaker 3: That's true, that's true.
Speaker 4: I mean it's just avoid your Your opponents can fill
Speaker 4: that void with anything they want.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it made me makes me think of what could
Speaker 3: your enthusiasm. Larry David there was a while ago he
Speaker 3: had a he had a thing where he he went
Speaker 3: on one of those who do you think you are
Speaker 3: genealogy programs and you find out the ancestors or like
Speaker 3: you know, like a slave driving certain plantation, and and
Speaker 3: I I didn't think much of that at the time,
Speaker 3: but I've noticed now apparently he's a huge fan of
Speaker 3: the Confederate sort of army, sort of historical societies and stuff.
Speaker 3: So I don't know. I think it's kind of impossible
Speaker 3: to escape one's ancestry, you know, when you realize you
Speaker 3: know where you fit into it, even if you can
Speaker 3: distance yourself more really from certain things, it's like, well,
Speaker 3: this is part of.
Speaker 6: Who you are.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna you're not gonna chuck it for you know,
Speaker 3: for nothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and we get that in the South here too.
Speaker 1: I've I was Arns before we started that. In the
Speaker 1: South here, they're Southerners are very very aware of their families,
Speaker 1: and they are for the most part not ashamed.
Speaker 2: Do they understand that, you know? I mean, I know
Speaker 2: my own through my dad.
Speaker 1: At some point we were slaves, and at some point
Speaker 1: we owned slaves. So it's like, all right, well, best
Speaker 1: of both worlds. But I guess the reason I'm here,
Speaker 1: the reason I asked you guys to be here, is
Speaker 1: because South Africa has been in the news a lot
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. And I think that
Speaker 1: most Americans, what they know about South Africa is comes
Speaker 1: from Hollywood and comes from the newspapers, and these these
Speaker 1: are pure, These are the propaganda arms of you know,
Speaker 1: global Homo now and I want to hear the story.
Speaker 3: I want to know.
Speaker 1: Everybody talked about, Oh, apartheid was so terrible, and you know,
Speaker 1: we talked a little bit before we started recording about
Speaker 1: the history of a little bit about the history and
Speaker 1: how did we get to this point? I mean, how
Speaker 1: did we get to the point where I was watching
Speaker 1: videos last year of white and black act men in
Speaker 1: South Africa standing side by side shooting rifles at rioters
Speaker 1: and looters and people murdering people.
Speaker 4: H this is kind of your question, kind of is
Speaker 4: a slam dunk for rob seeing as is Forte is
Speaker 4: the different dispense political dispensations of South Africa, which is
Speaker 4: literally the answer to the question how did we get here?
Speaker 4: So I think I'll give the floor over to him
Speaker 4: for for introduction there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's basically the the country is. It's
Speaker 3: not a real country, it's it's it's a it's a
Speaker 3: resource extraction zone. And I mean the Cape has a
Speaker 3: sort of nebulous identity. It's always been like if you
Speaker 3: read sort of historical books about the Cape. So everyone
Speaker 3: has an idea that like there's something here, but we
Speaker 3: can't quite put our finger on it. But definitely South
Speaker 3: Africans have nothing in common. There's there's nothing in common
Speaker 3: except for the sort of power structure that holds us together.
Speaker 3: And there's always been the case, and the country was
Speaker 3: deliberately denied any kind of federal devolution of power from
Speaker 3: the very first, explicitly to contain any any attempts by
Speaker 3: people to break away. I mean, the reason that the
Speaker 3: Union Constitution was instituted in nineteen ten was because the
Speaker 3: trance of all decided didn't want to be part of
Speaker 3: the customs. So they have like this big, big convention
Speaker 3: behind closed doors and say, listen, guys, we're not doing
Speaker 3: this warshit again. You're a going to sit down and
Speaker 3: we're not going to have devolution of powers. You're going
Speaker 3: to get with the program. We're going to have somewhere.
Speaker 3: We're going to have a cultural fusion of English and Africana,
Speaker 3: and we're going to protect every one nation. That didn't
Speaker 3: even work. And the only point at which you got
Speaker 3: anything approaching white unity was under for food when you
Speaker 3: got all for the first time, the English speaking population
Speaker 3: shifted over to vote for the Nationalist Party. But the
Speaker 3: real thing is that you have a sort of idea
Speaker 3: of the first chunk of just just shy fifty years
Speaker 3: of the country is about trying to build this common
Speaker 3: identity between English and Afrikaans people under the under the
Speaker 3: British Empire. And it starts coming apart in the thirties
Speaker 3: and by nineteen forty eight it's you know, everyone sort
Speaker 3: of decided, no, we don't really want you know, the
Speaker 3: Africaners are going to be the bell leader for the
Speaker 3: future and this is going to be an Afrikaans nation.
Speaker 3: And by sixty one we become a republic. You know,
Speaker 3: it's full speed ahead for Africanization of everything and an
Speaker 3: attempt to contain some of the forces that were led
Speaker 3: list because the big driver this is the gold mines.
Speaker 3: This is the reason that Nathan Rostrald got together with
Speaker 3: Bite Roads and Milne to unify the The whole point
Speaker 3: is mineral extraction. The problem also is that all the
Speaker 3: goldfields are far inland. I mean three times the size
Speaker 3: of Germany, remember, way larger than Texas. But you know,
Speaker 3: the mines are so far from the ports, so that
Speaker 3: you have to like unify all these different territories in
Speaker 3: order to give them sort of stable access. So you know,
Speaker 3: Als mentioned the riots, and the reason that those riots
Speaker 3: were so effective and so threatening was because they targeted
Speaker 3: the corridor, the main economic corridor between Johannesburg and Praetoria
Speaker 3: and all those mining hubs and derban.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were a metaphorical knife over over an artery,
Speaker 4: like a main artery precisely.
Speaker 3: And I mean the thing is, you know, while African
Speaker 3: do you have in the meantime the black societies form
Speaker 3: a sort of mirror image of what's happening in the
Speaker 3: white societies, where they're starting to for purely pragmatic political
Speaker 3: power reasons, consolidating around a homogeneous black identity under the
Speaker 3: ANC from nineteen twelve. And I mean this is not
Speaker 3: reflected on the ground amongst most black South Africans and
Speaker 3: you know, or even a plurality of them until very recently.
Speaker 3: But I mean you did get some writing about the
Speaker 3: emergence of this sort of deracillated black identity. I mean
Speaker 3: Jordan Gubane, a Zulu political commentator, called them the new Africans.
Speaker 3: And I think you wrote something in nineteen seventy nine
Speaker 3: called a conflict of minds, and I recommend anyone to
Speaker 3: go read that. I mean, it's it's really a fantastic
Speaker 3: piece of insight. But I won't explain everything you said here,
Speaker 3: but it's the issue is that in order to challenge
Speaker 3: the white power structure, they had to consolidate and form
Speaker 3: like a single block. And the process they build this
Speaker 3: ideology based on you know, economic distribution and race nationalism
Speaker 3: and race consciousness. I mean, the idea is that they
Speaker 3: got from w eb d Boys and Marcus Garvian or whatever
Speaker 3: it was, like secondhand German race nationalist ideas really and
Speaker 3: then they combine them with bits of bits of Soviet economics.
Speaker 3: The ideology the ANC can really be something up as
Speaker 3: you know, black race consciousness plus Leninism, and the Leninist
Speaker 3: element is the two stage national democratic revolution. So the
Speaker 3: first revolution is the nationalist revolution, whereby you gain control
Speaker 3: the levels of power in society, in the in the economy,
Speaker 3: and the second phase is where you use those to
Speaker 3: transsform society into a socialist economy, except that with the
Speaker 3: race element it's transformed into a black socialist economy. And
Speaker 3: from the nineteen seventies already they were looking for inspiration
Speaker 3: from Indonesia with their expulsion of the Dutch and the Chinese,
Speaker 3: and from Zanziboi in their massacre of the of the Arabs.
Speaker 3: And it was even something called Operation j which failed
Speaker 3: in the most farcical way possible. But the original intention
Speaker 3: was to instigate as Zanzibar style genocidal massacre in South Africa.
Speaker 3: They didn't even manage to get the boat with the
Speaker 3: troops out of Somalia because they didn't maintain the engine,
Speaker 3: so so that was completely abortive. But I mean, look
Speaker 3: at the nc has as been a fairly nasty organization
Speaker 3: and most of their political culture was really consolidated. In
Speaker 3: the nineteen eighties they took this is this military doctrine
Speaker 3: that they took from the Vietnamese called a People's War.
Speaker 3: They were paid to go over there in nineteen seventy
Speaker 3: nine by the Soviet Union and they studied with Vogwark
Speaker 3: of allmans Yupp, who is the you know general who
Speaker 3: you know completed the warrans just to stop you the robber.
Speaker 4: Just a great resource on the People's Wall if you
Speaker 4: on this book by Anthea Jfree called People's war then
Speaker 4: a new light on the struggle for South Africa. It
Speaker 4: covers the entire concept. It is like a magnum opus
Speaker 4: on that concept.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I mean this this sort of explains the
Speaker 3: riots that we had last year. So that was big
Speaker 3: headline news. And I mean, like I was contacted by
Speaker 3: I'm certain in seventy six rival little something for them
Speaker 3: last year about it as well. So the issue is
Speaker 3: that the the structure of the NCADA took on this
Speaker 3: idea that so everyone, man, women and child are all combatants.
Speaker 3: There's no such thing as being like not on a
Speaker 3: side or not a legitimate target. I mean, Nelson Mandela
Speaker 3: had his had his principles. He sort of said, well, no,
Speaker 3: no human targets or just doing sabotage here. But of
Speaker 3: course on his way into jail he said, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to rule out guerrilla warfare and terrorism.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, if it's necessary, it's and that's
Speaker 3: what the people who followed him later did when they
Speaker 3: finally managed to get some funds and some training, and
Speaker 3: so the nineteen eighties, you see if you go on
Speaker 3: to if you go on to Wikipedia and you look
Speaker 3: up a crime in South Africa there's a big fat
Speaker 3: graph over there for the homicides over the over one
Speaker 3: hundred years from nineteen fifteen to twenty fifteen, and there's
Speaker 3: a gentle incredase that followers urbanization and population growth, and
Speaker 3: there's a massive spike from seventeen nineteen to ninety three
Speaker 3: that then starts declining, and that spike is the people's
Speaker 3: Now the official statistics for debts areund about twenty thousand,
Speaker 3: but if you look at the area under that that
Speaker 3: spike in the graph, the numbers are way higher. They're
Speaker 3: way higher. And it's you know, death by sort of torture, mobbing,
Speaker 3: burning down entire townships, just absolutely insane augi of violence.
Speaker 3: And you know, none of this is reported on because
Speaker 3: all of the journalists were around the world very dutifully
Speaker 3: remembered that, well, if we still want our sources to
Speaker 3: talk to us, we can't say anything they don't like.
Speaker 3: So they would they would actively lie in order to
Speaker 3: maintain contact and keep being able to write pieces on
Speaker 3: the ground. And they they freely admitted this to Anthea Jeffrey,
Speaker 3: which is why of her book is such a fantastic resource.
Speaker 3: But I mean, this is the structure means that when
Speaker 3: when when they did the riots last year, the the
Speaker 3: contoy season, which the military ring of the a n C,
Speaker 3: they had decided that they were going to back Jacob
Speaker 3: Zumer as the former president against against the criminal charges
Speaker 3: against him for like racketeering, bribery, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 3: And when he was placed in jail, they shut down
Speaker 3: about half the country's economy. They targeted and it was
Speaker 3: like a reasonably military level operation. When you look at
Speaker 3: them ms, it's like, okay, target the you know, the
Speaker 3: side as the depots, the roads, the rails, reports, shut
Speaker 3: all that down. But what they did is they then
Speaker 3: sort of rallied ordinary people and activists within the party
Speaker 3: to go and glut and raid and target white and
Speaker 3: Indian owned businesses, and they encouraged them with open use
Speaker 3: of genocidal rhetoric. And once they were done with the businesses,
Speaker 3: they started going off the people's suburbs. But the problem
Speaker 3: is by then these people, most people had sort of
Speaker 3: tooled up and hundreds hundreds of black people died trying
Speaker 3: to do massacre the minorities in Durban and in Coburg Johannesburg.
Speaker 3: You actually got you know, large sections of the black
Speaker 3: population who didn't want anything to do with us insane nonsense,
Speaker 3: who formed their own defensive forces, and now they're sort
Speaker 3: of they've evolved into something called Operation to Doula and
Speaker 3: another thing called the Soweto Parliament, who are aiming for
Speaker 3: some sort of non partisan national sort of black nationalist
Speaker 3: ideology that's non communist and non pan African, turned their
Speaker 3: back on the liberation and and sort of gone very
Speaker 3: hard on order stuff. So there have been a lot
Speaker 3: of you know, fall hours from that. It's the best
Speaker 3: way that you can sort of sum up the black
Speaker 3: nationalist ideas over here is that they are the two
Speaker 3: key words you have over here are into and unity,
Speaker 3: and so unity would be in there, but there's no
Speaker 3: need to make two words. So the idea about UBUNTU
Speaker 3: is more that our culture is the most human culture.
Speaker 3: Your participation, no loyalty to this culture. And then and
Speaker 3: then the year is like we are not approaching any
Speaker 3: divisiveness is considered like a fear fundamentally, So this is
Speaker 3: very sort of consensus based idea going around. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so it's it's a very tricky business because trying trying
Speaker 3: to oppose any of these ideas as a white person
Speaker 3: you're immediately in the position of going, well, if you
Speaker 3: appeal to your identity, then you are then you're immediately
Speaker 3: being divisive if if they even recognize you as being
Speaker 3: part of the community itself. So it's it doesn't allow
Speaker 3: a lot of avenues for legitimate resistance, and so everything
Speaker 3: becomes about a balance of forces.
Speaker 4: M m hm yes, oh yeah, No, Well Rob painted
Speaker 4: a very very detailed picture of the different dispensations. But
Speaker 4: I think what I want to add there, well, you
Speaker 4: just ended on it, and that's the balance of forces.
Speaker 4: There's many of these concepts coming out of South Africa
Speaker 4: that if you understand them, they can actually be applied
Speaker 4: in many contexts. So the balance of forces is pretty
Speaker 4: much the philosophical is operandi of the a n C
Speaker 4: when it comes to their practical approach to policy making,
Speaker 4: making moves in their grand chess game is And that's
Speaker 4: another thing. Don't don't make the mistake that these a
Speaker 4: NC oaks are just like idiots or like they don't
Speaker 4: know what they're doing. Like there's a lot of guys
Speaker 4: that's just there for corruption, a lot of them just
Speaker 4: there to get on the gravy train. But a lot
Speaker 4: of them are genuine ideologues, people that have an ideological plan,
Speaker 4: fanatic or about it. But yeah, so the concept of
Speaker 4: the balance of forces is very simple when it comes
Speaker 4: to whether they ever want to impose a policy or
Speaker 4: piece of legislation they chair, they look at the balance
Speaker 4: of forces, and the balance of forces means is the
Speaker 4: the the aggregate of all the different forces that are
Speaker 4: pro and against us in our favor or against us
Speaker 4: in our favor or not in our favor. And the
Speaker 4: only way, the only way you can really influens the
Speaker 4: ruling party, the ANC, is by tipping the balance of
Speaker 4: forces against them, or to put them in a position
Speaker 4: where they realize but the balance of forces is not
Speaker 4: in there, then you can make them do anything you want,
Speaker 4: if you if you can play that power game, because
Speaker 4: that's their game, that's the rule they that's the rule
Speaker 4: they play by. And it's it's that old concept of
Speaker 4: you push. You push the population to a certain point,
Speaker 4: and when they react and push back, you stop, and
Speaker 4: you wait and you wait for them to calm down, and.
Speaker 3: Then you push again.
Speaker 4: You push a little bit, you just push them a
Speaker 4: meter in one direction, and then they start getting upper,
Speaker 4: do you they start getting angry, they start burning things,
Speaker 4: so you stop, you wait, wait for them to calm down.
Speaker 4: You just do that ad infinitum and pushing them a
Speaker 4: meter by meter, scen to meter, or even millimeter by millimeter.
Speaker 4: In a few years, they end up hundreds of kilometers
Speaker 4: or miles away from the point where they start, and
Speaker 4: they have no idea how they got there, and they
Speaker 4: just snap snap out of it and they're like, how
Speaker 4: do we get here? While you got their one tiny
Speaker 4: little scene to me sa at a time. But that's
Speaker 4: basically their their formula. Now what Rob described when it
Speaker 4: comes to the apartheid era, that was a dispensation of
Speaker 4: a forced separation, but now we are living in a
Speaker 4: dispensation of forced integration. But it's built on the philosophy
Speaker 4: the actually pretty much similar to the globalist philosophy of
Speaker 4: you're trying to solve not the problem of evil, but
Speaker 4: the problem of conflict, a problem as old as humanity itself.
Speaker 4: It's every utopians like Gordian not if we can solve
Speaker 4: this year, you win a prize, but the problem of conflict.
Speaker 4: I'm oversimplifying. But the way their philosophy are they want
Speaker 4: to solve the problem of conflict is they find they
Speaker 4: pin the root of conflict in difference, So in linguistic differences,
Speaker 4: religious differences, cultural differences, every type of difference that there is.
Speaker 4: That's where conflict in their framework arises from. So of
Speaker 4: course the next jump then philosophically for them is if
Speaker 4: we eliminate all these differences or minimize them, we will
Speaker 4: also minimize conflict and we will move towards a more peaceful,
Speaker 4: coexisting world of people. Because conflict is also not good
Speaker 4: for business, as of course Luma told what Rob described
Speaker 4: there shows you. So there's the utopian side of just
Speaker 4: wanting to destroy conflict because if you feel that's the
Speaker 4: moral right thing to do. And then there's just literally
Speaker 4: the cynical side of people that want to live in
Speaker 4: a world of art conflict because conflict is not good
Speaker 4: for business. Instability is not good for consumers. Any type
Speaker 4: of war or infighting between groups or civil war or
Speaker 4: feuds between groups or factions is not good for an economy.
Speaker 4: It's not good for the graph go up type of people.
Speaker 4: So what we are living in South Africa is the
Speaker 4: South African experiment, or they literally call it in the
Speaker 4: nineties the South African experiment, but then they realized people
Speaker 4: were raising their eyebrows, so they started talking about the
Speaker 4: South African project. Now it's a lot more soft on
Speaker 4: the ear, but in essence it is a project of
Speaker 4: forced forced integration. Where do you try to standardize everything?
Speaker 4: And they got this from the Soviets there an see
Speaker 4: this idea of standardization. We want to live. We want
Speaker 4: to create a society of standardized men. That was what
Speaker 4: Lenin wanted to do as well with the Russian population.
Speaker 4: So what she then you? You? My friend Russell lomberti
Speaker 4: Act actually summed it up very well just a week
Speaker 4: ago and I talked to him. He said, South Africa
Speaker 4: is famous for having eleven official languages, but it's the
Speaker 4: biggest farce. We only have one official language technically speaking,
Speaker 4: and that is English, the state mandated language. And that's
Speaker 4: that part of the homogenization standardization project. Everyone. Firstly, everyone
Speaker 4: needs to abandon their cultural roots they and adopt a
Speaker 4: new and their cultural identity and need they need to
Speaker 4: adopt the South African identity. They are South Africans first,
Speaker 4: and then they are Afrikanas and Zulus and vendors and
Speaker 4: Troungas and cause Us and everything in between. But so
Speaker 4: that's the one thing. You abandon your organic age, old
Speaker 4: identities and you take on this new, artificial state based
Speaker 4: identity where you are a South African whatever that means
Speaker 4: you live with which it's so empty. You just live
Speaker 4: in the parameters of South Africa. You live within the
Speaker 4: borders and you bry some meat over open fire and
Speaker 4: on again. But then that's the one part. The other
Speaker 4: part is you abandon your language. That's not good for
Speaker 4: efficient system. If you want to run an efficient system,
Speaker 4: everyone needs to be doing business in one language, getting
Speaker 4: education in one language, socializing in one language, doing litigation
Speaker 4: in one language. Courts are running on one language. Every
Speaker 4: single system needs to be optimized with one language. That
Speaker 4: language is English. So what you're seeing is a systemic
Speaker 4: destruction of just every other language in South Africa with
Speaker 4: the with the black languages, they just don't develop them.
Speaker 4: The ANC does everything in their power to make sure
Speaker 4: these languages just die out and that the black population
Speaker 4: anglicizes and takes on English. So that's that's the black
Speaker 4: language is covered. When it comes to Afrikaans, for example,
Speaker 4: it is a more difficult challenge because Afrikaans in the
Speaker 4: past hundred years was developed from a kitchen language to
Speaker 4: a to a language that is an academic language. I
Speaker 4: think it's one of only three languages in the last
Speaker 4: hundred years that was developed from like a low tier
Speaker 4: just casual language to an academic level language. I think
Speaker 4: I can't remember what the other two. So, yeah, Hebrew
Speaker 4: was one of them, and then there's another one. But
Speaker 4: so Afrikaans is a bit more of a difficult ones
Speaker 4: because you've got actually you've got universities that are Afrikaans universities.
Speaker 4: You've got a lot of Afrikaans literature, you've got Afrikaans school.
Speaker 4: So what do you start doing. You start destroying those
Speaker 4: Africa KNT universities by bringing in English. First, you make
Speaker 4: it bilingual, so that you take Afrikaance university that is
Speaker 4: educating people and their mother tongue, and you say, well,
Speaker 4: you're not inclusive enough, so you turn it into a
Speaker 4: bilingual university in the name of inclusiveness. As soon as
Speaker 4: the English Yeah, as soon as the English speaking population
Speaker 4: is in the majority in the university, you say, well,
Speaker 4: now that the English speaking population of the university or
Speaker 4: of the students is the majority, we have no reason
Speaker 4: to keep it bilingual. We will now turn it into
Speaker 4: an English university, but with translation services. So if you
Speaker 4: want to really learn in Afrikaans, you can get a
Speaker 4: translation service. But all the textbooks are in Africa are
Speaker 4: on English, all the classes are in English, all the
Speaker 4: tests on English. But if you really want to, you
Speaker 4: can put a little earphone in your in your ear
Speaker 4: during class and you can hear the lecture what he
Speaker 4: just said in very poor or very very poor audio
Speaker 4: quality and someone that's not sure what the real what
Speaker 4: the academic word is supposed to translate. So then you
Speaker 4: just kill Afrikaans at the public at the tertiary university level.
Speaker 4: That's already done. I was at university during this process.
Speaker 4: I saw it happen in front of my eyes, the
Speaker 4: destruction of my mother tongue education at tertiary level. I mean,
Speaker 4: I started first year trying to get to trying to
Speaker 4: do my university degree in Afrikaans. I tried. I literally
Speaker 4: sat and translated all my textbooks into Afrikaans meticulously. And
Speaker 4: then second year old around I realized, now the work
Speaker 4: is triple. I can't do it anymore. So I studied
Speaker 4: in English. So I got my degree in English. But
Speaker 4: that's what happens to almost every student. Then, so now
Speaker 4: you've killed Afrikaans education on tertiary level. What they're currently
Speaker 4: doing is they're moving to school level now. So now
Speaker 4: they're trying to destroy Afrikaans in the Afrikaans schools where
Speaker 4: that's still the instruction language on school level. That's the
Speaker 4: next phase. But yeah, that aside, there's always forming part
Speaker 4: of the Grand Standardization project of the ANC forming part
Speaker 4: of this. We are trying to create this efficient system
Speaker 4: of standardized citizens where there's no conflict and where everything
Speaker 4: is just moving optimally and there's a lot of funds
Speaker 4: that that we can either loot or that we can
Speaker 4: use for other means. But yeah, like I said, there
Speaker 4: is a divide. It's not like everyone within the ruling
Speaker 4: party is doing everything for the same reason there but
Speaker 4: there are those that are just there for the corruption.
Speaker 4: But there are genuine fanatic idea logues and there are
Speaker 4: a lot of them are not even in the ruling party.
Speaker 4: They're just in positions of power, but they're still towing
Speaker 4: the line because they it's pretty much the South African
Speaker 4: version of the Cathedral, so they're pretty much just doing
Speaker 4: they know what they need to do. They don't even
Speaker 4: need instruction and they're all just marching ahead with the standardization, ormoginization,
Speaker 4: forced Integration project.
Speaker 2: Well what's the excuse?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I'm going to have to bring up
Speaker 1: apartheid because if I don't, somebody's going to scream at me.
Speaker 1: Is it that we suffered under this? Now we a
Speaker 1: better question how much leftover of that resentment? Is fuel
Speaker 1: fuels this or is it something else?
Speaker 4: Robber, you can start off the end of aug I
Speaker 4: just had a lot of time.
Speaker 3: I think the best way to I think the best
Speaker 3: way to start is to sort of realize that a
Speaker 3: proctect was the way people think of it is they
Speaker 3: think of that someone came up with this idea that
Speaker 3: you know, we live in this world with white and
Speaker 3: black people that separate them. The reality is that South
Speaker 3: Africa is extremely vast countries. Again, like I said, three
Speaker 3: times a side of Germany. And let's say you take
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty years ago, You've got maybe three
Speaker 3: or four million people that's the population of It's not
Speaker 3: even the population of the Netherlands, like less than the
Speaker 3: population of Portugal. So you know, extremely though, so everyone
Speaker 3: sort of settled in areas which are culturally homogeneous or
Speaker 3: a lesser extent. I mean the cape was different. But
Speaker 3: that's much longer and more complicated story. So what happens
Speaker 3: is when in the country is unified, you've got all
Speaker 3: these different entities existing in one bubble, and the political
Speaker 3: elite in the political economy is run out of the
Speaker 3: white society with some migrant labor from the blacklack areas.
Speaker 3: So what they're do in order to stabilize is they
Speaker 3: draw little boundaries around the black areas of black people.
Speaker 3: Settle can call those homelands. That happened in nineteen thirteen.
Speaker 3: They moved about I think sixties to ninety thousand people
Speaker 3: in order to tidy up the boundaries of these areas.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, and so then that was the system
Speaker 3: that be narrative of like basically a bunch of different
Speaker 3: countries in one area white people much less to one
Speaker 3: unitary state, and then a whole bunch of like tiny, weird,
Speaker 3: sort of semi independent states that the living as colonial crapies.
Speaker 4: Maybe you just need to add to that when it
Speaker 4: comes to the modern South African state, you asks what's
Speaker 4: driving a lot of this? You need to understand This
Speaker 4: is not a system that is designed just to target
Speaker 4: white people or Africana people. It is an anti culture system.
Speaker 4: As Patrick Denin would put it, it is a system
Speaker 4: that is designed to be a culture shred. This is
Speaker 4: what the South African current dispensation is. Its mortal enemy
Speaker 4: is any type of genuine culture or religion, or community
Speaker 4: or tradition. It is designed to destroy it, almost like
Speaker 4: an acid where anything that touches it is just eaten away.
Speaker 4: That's what it does. So what people need to understand,
Speaker 4: this is a nuanced point that it gets lost very easily,
Speaker 4: is that, yes, public enemy Number one of the regime
Speaker 4: is definitely Africana culture, White English culture. That's definitely one
Speaker 4: of its main enemies and targets. But it doesn't stop
Speaker 4: there at all. It is also targeting and destroying Colored
Speaker 4: culture and many of the black cultures as well as well.
Speaker 4: South Africa is being ruled by urban Black South Africans,
Speaker 4: urban its and that have nothing but contempt for their
Speaker 4: cultural counterparts. In the rural parts of South Africa. They
Speaker 4: really don't think a lot of their their cultural counterparts.
Speaker 4: They actually look down on them as savage and backwards.
Speaker 4: That's what is happening, and you need to understand that
Speaker 4: this is the dynamic that's going on. It's not just
Speaker 4: a system designed to attack white cultures. It is a
Speaker 4: system that attacks cultures period. It is there to destroy
Speaker 4: Afrikana culture, cause our culture, Zulu culture, Vendor culture, all
Speaker 4: of these are its mortal enemies and it's targeting all
Speaker 4: of them with laser like precision, and it's mercilessly destroying
Speaker 4: and wiping them up on a linguistic and a cultural level.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is why Jacobs was such a big shock
Speaker 3: to the system because he reinjected a sort of he
Speaker 3: had closer ties to the chieftaincies.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he wasn't deraestimated, No, he wasn't.
Speaker 3: You know, sort of a traditional polygamous family, proud of
Speaker 3: his ethnic heritage, which was again it seems very divisive
Speaker 3: within the ANC. So yeah, it's a difficult That was
Speaker 3: a difficult thing for everyone, and everyone sort of says, well, ah,
Speaker 3: you know the reason everything thing's going down is because
Speaker 3: Jacob Zumer and then they forget, of course that the
Speaker 3: policies were all set back in the nineteen nineties, so
Speaker 3: it's just sort of like a slow burn that he
Speaker 3: participated in some of but that's besides the point. I mean,
Speaker 3: the aparthe thing is what we know as a partheid
Speaker 3: with like people think about like segregated beaches and you know,
Speaker 3: drinking fun and stuff. That came a little bit later,
Speaker 3: and it sort of started in a wave of reforms
Speaker 3: that it was from like the nineteen twenties to thirties,
Speaker 3: and it was you know, academics sort of refer to
Speaker 3: this as grand and petty apart. As a grand aparte,
Speaker 3: it is like the different geographical areas, you know, which
Speaker 3: are homelands for black people versus the white metropol and
Speaker 3: it's sort of vast aggricultural hintment. And then petty Aparte
Speaker 3: it is the segregation that it's imposed on the migrant
Speaker 3: laborers from the black areas into white South Africa. So
Speaker 3: but that migrant labor that is something that was imposed
Speaker 3: upon white areas who tried to resist it. In the
Speaker 3: nineteen twenties, there was a major uprising. They tried to
Speaker 3: push back against the the importation of black labor from
Speaker 3: these from these sort of black colonial zones outside of
Speaker 3: the white metropol and yeah, they were gone done by
Speaker 3: the government for doing so. So I mean, one of
Speaker 3: the big crimes that's picked on over here is not
Speaker 3: just the in segregation, it's also you know, the give
Speaker 3: economic exploitation. But you know that's a product of an
Speaker 3: elite that's been in charge of the country since the
Speaker 3: year dot. I mean, big families in charge of this
Speaker 3: country are Rothschild, Oppenheimer and Rupert Becker. There's a couple
Speaker 3: of others, but I mean the biggest of the big
Speaker 3: names of you know, the Rothschild family funded the Mulner
Speaker 3: group that unified the country by war. The Oppenaheima family
Speaker 3: were funded by JP Morgan in the nineteen twenties to
Speaker 3: scoop up the mines on the round. And you know,
Speaker 3: these people have been pushing for economic and cultural integration
Speaker 3: for a very long time, and they are actually behind
Speaker 3: the the Oppenaigi family actually behind the design of the
Speaker 3: current black economic empowerment laws. In two thousand and three,
Speaker 3: they wrote the legislation for US that basically forces companies
Speaker 3: over certain size and over about twenty six percent of
Speaker 3: their shares to black investors or whatever. And then they
Speaker 3: have quotes for management and staff and so on as well.
Speaker 3: And this applies to all the institutions public and private
Speaker 3: that you need a minimum quote of black people, and
Speaker 3: there's no maximum quota. So you can have organizations that
Speaker 3: completely exclude minorities and that's perfectly legal, but you cannot
Speaker 3: have ones that exclude the majority. So the situation over
Speaker 3: this it's quite dire, and OP and i FM divested
Speaker 3: from all of their major industrial assets in twenty twelve
Speaker 3: after they realize of the consequences of their project. But
Speaker 3: it's sort of like a combination of naivety and cynicism.
Speaker 3: So the naivete is the aspect of well, you know,
Speaker 3: we really want to do well by these black people,
Speaker 3: and the cynicism as well. This also allows us to
Speaker 3: have some modicum of control over the black population because
Speaker 3: the reality is that they an't see by entangling themselves,
Speaker 3: because they become the primary benefactor of the Black Economic
Speaker 3: Parliament policies. Most of these share these sort of corporate
Speaker 3: share shared policies get shared out to ruling party members
Speaker 3: placements on the board gets it, not to their friends
Speaker 3: and family. So but the consequences of this is that
Speaker 3: now that they're firm not they're not firmly embedded in
Speaker 3: what they used to call white monopoly capital so this
Speaker 3: this this means that you know, the AC is stuck
Speaker 3: in the stalemate. I mean they're heading towards the position
Speaker 3: where they're they have enough balance of forces to declare
Speaker 3: that they've finished the first phase of the national democratic
Speaker 3: revolution finally, but you know, they're sort of pussy footing
Speaker 3: around the big decisions because you know, investors can still
Speaker 3: threaten them with a bad time because of their entanglement.
Speaker 3: So there's a you know, this sort of combination of
Speaker 3: fascist fascist economics and and sort of this incrementalist policy.
Speaker 3: It sort of it has mixed results, but the big
Speaker 3: thing that it does is is a cripples investment, which
Speaker 3: is again something the Oppenheimer found have always delighted in.
Speaker 3: I mean they poured money into not in the Nationalist Party,
Speaker 3: but also the ANC and the divestment sanctions movement. So
Speaker 3: what they ended up having is all of the foreign
Speaker 3: companies they divers from South Africa because it becomes uncompetitive
Speaker 3: and economically unviable, and then they scoop up all of
Speaker 3: their assets of fire sale prices, and there by the
Speaker 3: end of the eighties they had direct or indirect control
Speaker 3: of about eighty percent of the form formal economy, and
Speaker 3: I mean these permanent oligarchs. I mean, like some of
Speaker 3: them are Africa who made their way up during the
Speaker 3: nationalist period, like the Rupert family. But there's there's like
Speaker 3: a very very small cluster of dynasties that basically have
Speaker 3: they ruled the country without any real check on their power.
Speaker 3: And I mean one of the biggest runs now is
Speaker 3: a guy called Patrise Mazepe who's the brother in law
Speaker 3: current president. So yeah, the country is is more the
Speaker 3: wealth is more concentrated than you see in Russia or
Speaker 3: America anywhere else. It's extremely obscene and absurd. And every
Speaker 3: single stage of a pragmatic adjustment that they're using in
Speaker 3: order to hold onto their dominance causes more more nasty,
Speaker 3: stupid cruelty for ordinary people, no matter how sort of
Speaker 3: flung their ideals that they articulate these things in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and an important point on that where you're talking
Speaker 4: about the inequality in South Africa. Since nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 4: inequality in South Africa has grown, but the driving force
Speaker 4: behind it is not inter race inequality. It's intra race
Speaker 4: inequality that's driving the inequality. Inequality in South Africa. The
Speaker 4: creation of a ridiculously wealthy black elite in South Africa
Speaker 4: is really something to behold.
Speaker 3: Money where even a diet.
Speaker 4: In the wall capitalist will look at that. We'll look
Speaker 4: at that and just think this is not moral. This
Speaker 4: is there's something deeply morally abhorrent about having this much
Speaker 4: money and spending it in this just inhumanly flagrant way
Speaker 4: in a country like South Africa. It's it's absolutely insane.
Speaker 4: It's now and again, like a receipt or a bull
Speaker 4: from a government function leaks or like where they went
Speaker 4: out and had drinks, and it's it is genuinely morally
Speaker 4: abhorrent to see people, I think in dollar terms spend
Speaker 4: like in one evening, like almost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 4: It's insane. It's really it breaks your brain.
Speaker 3: The worst the worst part is that when you look
Speaker 3: at they're not building anything with this capital they've got
Speaker 3: their hands on. There's i mean, the gross capital formation
Speaker 3: is pretty sort of stagnant in South Africa, so I
Speaker 3: mean it's it's not at least it's not even free
Speaker 3: for but I mean it's not looking good.
Speaker 6: And yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3: Everything's been going downhill for you know, as long as
Speaker 3: anyone can remember now, and I mean it didn't to
Speaker 3: be honest, I think I think it's people blame us
Speaker 3: a lot on the ANC. But if we want to
Speaker 3: be truly fired actually started under the old regime as well,
Speaker 3: because right until the sanctions hit, we were running every
Speaker 3: year the real real sort of average income of white
Speaker 3: sideplings is computing by about like three annually, and black
Speaker 3: wages were increasing by fifty per annually. I mean, there
Speaker 3: was an extraordinary boom like economic boom into and the
Speaker 3: amount of sort of redistribution of economic goods was actually
Speaker 3: quite large. The budget for the state for for you know,
Speaker 3: often infrastructure for the black areas in the country was
Speaker 3: in art strip the UN I think five times over
Speaker 3: h and I mean, look the amount it it's there's
Speaker 3: a lot of this development going in. There's lots of
Speaker 3: economic growth happening, of course, with the the sort of
Speaker 3: necessary caviaret that the implicit deal was that black people
Speaker 3: had to accept that they were inferior, and this is
Speaker 3: delivered to them by a sort of air nas the
Speaker 3: the although their ideology doesn't really come from Germany, it's
Speaker 3: more from the Dutch sort of pastor and politician Abram
Speaker 3: characters who's there was something called the Hamitic hypothesis, the
Speaker 3: idea that black people are the sons of ham and
Speaker 3: you know, the course of nowhere all of that. But
Speaker 3: I mean, this, this this large growth that was I mean,
Speaker 3: it wasn't quite as as energetic as you saw from
Speaker 3: the Asian tigers, but it was pretty pretty good. And
Speaker 3: and then when the sanctions hit in the late seventies
Speaker 3: early eighties, the economy hits a brick wall. And now
Speaker 3: we're at war with the Soviet Union on the border.
Speaker 3: I mean, most people say so and Gola, but the
Speaker 3: reality was that it's like the Russians war with Ukraine.
Speaker 3: All of the troops are being moved around by Russian generals,
Speaker 3: all of the angolamy, all the troops were moving moved
Speaker 3: around by Russian generals. All the equipment was.
Speaker 4: From in the mixed as well.
Speaker 3: Humans were in the mix as well, and soth Africa
Speaker 3: was owned against against this lot. And yeah, so that
Speaker 3: was the combination of a hot war on the border
Speaker 3: with a global superpower, and you know, economics, sanctions meant
Speaker 3: that the solution was just I mean, like the security
Speaker 3: budget for the state was like new fifty percent of
Speaker 3: the state budget. It was exceeded fifty percent of state
Speaker 3: budget by eighty six, and the sort of segregation rules
Speaker 3: have become absurd to where like you know, black labors
Speaker 3: were traveling like I think it was like six to
Speaker 3: eight hours daily transport. It was like the average to
Speaker 3: transport distance there to get a bit and from work,
Speaker 3: and you know, constant terrorism and the inflation rate hit
Speaker 3: hit an absurd point. So we start getting we start
Speaker 3: getting a really sort of runaway inflation in this period,
Speaker 3: and it never really quite cool down. I mean we've had,
Speaker 3: we've had it's sort of stagnate. Inflation is sort of
Speaker 3: stagnated in the high single digits, and it's been sort
Speaker 3: of like that for as long as anyone can remember.
Speaker 3: Occasionally it jumps about ten percent, but not that often.
Speaker 3: But it's just not good because everyone's savings are worth nothing.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not like Argentina, no Lebanon or Turkey
Speaker 3: or anything. But that's you know, if these are This
Speaker 3: wasn't like a sort of temporary thing. It's just sort
Speaker 3: of like that's how things are always and have been
Speaker 3: since you know, forty years ago. So yeah, it's that
Speaker 3: the economy has taken a knock. I mean, there's some
Speaker 3: other sort of funny, funny stuff that you'll find in
Speaker 3: economics that that I think are under underrated. And the
Speaker 3: big one for me is actually the deregulation of trucking
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy seven. And people thinking, Okay, well, this
Speaker 3: is like this marginal, ridiculous issue. The reality is that
Speaker 3: when you deregulate the trucking industry, so the relationship between
Speaker 3: the way to the trucks and the amount damage that
Speaker 3: they do to the to the roads is actually exponential
Speaker 3: increases to the power of four. So you know, like
Speaker 3: your normal family sedan does so little damage you don't
Speaker 3: even need to measure it, but the second you have
Speaker 3: like multi ton trucks, it's very severe. So they deregulated this.
Speaker 3: Two things happen when you do this. First of all,
Speaker 3: your damage on the roads gets enormous, and all of
Speaker 3: those costs are externalized, right, so it becomes much cheaper
Speaker 3: to run. And we've got the most extensive road network,
Speaker 3: one of the most extensive road networks of any country,
Speaker 3: you know, we really really highly paved country. And the
Speaker 3: freight charges that people are risking when they put their
Speaker 3: goods on the train. Well, you know you don't have
Speaker 3: to do that sticking on a modular transport unit traveled
Speaker 3: on the road. So then your revenue for the rail
Speaker 3: goes down, on your ability to keep preparing the resk
Speaker 3: go down. So in the past fifty years we've seen
Speaker 3: a decline in the rails and a decline in road
Speaker 3: quality and starting to reach up to an absolutely insane
Speaker 3: degree because the rails are not profitable, they're not being run.
Speaker 3: And they find all of the vast majority of the
Speaker 3: qualified civil urbans that were running everything that we had
Speaker 3: at the end of the nineties, I mean, so many
Speaker 3: of them actually offered to stay on free of charge
Speaker 3: because they were so desperate to keep the country from
Speaker 3: falling into the condition that now is. But you know
Speaker 3: they weren't running to hear It's like, well bye, by Whitey,
Speaker 3: we've heard enough from you. And I mean, the consequences
Speaker 3: are things that everyone has to bear. But the reforms
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy seven they went beyond that. I mean
Speaker 3: they decided to try to peace the international market by
Speaker 3: embargoing Rhodesia, which meant that their war effort against the
Speaker 3: against SNOPF last two more years only so I mean,
Speaker 3: like all of the reforms under forced that you know,
Speaker 3: attempts to appease the greater liberal Wesstern world, you know,
Speaker 3: by sort of slightly opening up the labor markets because
Speaker 3: they ended and they actually sort of gradually dismantled the
Speaker 3: color bar from that point on, and by the mid
Speaker 3: of the eighties, they were no longer enforcing segregated living areas,
Speaker 3: so you know, if you buy a you could rent
Speaker 3: houses under proxy and sort of set up anywhere in
Speaker 3: any town. So you see, like people, you know, people
Speaker 3: are no longer hemmed in by where they're where they're
Speaker 3: working from. It's just everything starts going. A party started
Speaker 3: being dismantled in seventy seven. The idea that they were
Speaker 3: aiming for something called consociationalism, which is a plan from
Speaker 3: a Dutch guy called Ardent Laypath, and the idea is
Speaker 3: that basically you give every ethnic group some kind of
Speaker 3: veto on what happens at national politics. And it didn't
Speaker 3: work out. So I mean they tried stuff like to
Speaker 3: we had like tricameral parliam in the nineteen eighties, so
Speaker 3: that you had, you know, you have these two different
Speaker 3: tiers of the white parliam and you were a third
Speaker 3: tier for various for people of various races to participate in.
Speaker 3: And they tried to set all set all the bunch
Speaker 3: stones up for independent national government, but they didn't really
Speaker 3: trial that hard. They didn't give them contiguous territories. They're
Speaker 3: too scared of pissing off their voting base. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's just like everyone realized, like fifty years too late,
Speaker 3: that they maybe should have been a bit more pragmatic
Speaker 3: with how they divided the country up. And you know,
Speaker 3: by the time, by the time negotiating settlement with the
Speaker 3: A and C, you're on the back foot. You've got
Speaker 3: no money in the kitty, and nobody believes in the
Speaker 3: system anymore, because I mean it was it was just inevitable.
Speaker 3: I mean, nobody sort of took any of the problem seriously.
Speaker 3: And the fixes that people are looking at now I'm
Speaker 3: just looking and going, you know, this is all too little,
Speaker 3: too late. I mean, all of the major reformers that
Speaker 3: the Western powers of funding, now you know you've got
Speaker 3: I wrote a little sit of a sardonical blog person
Speaker 3: called the World Economic Forum party. They're talking about like
Speaker 3: the leader of this new party that's been run a
Speaker 3: former Democratic Alliance, the Liberal Opposition Party. A former candidate
Speaker 3: from there called the Demo Mazibuko who went and studied
Speaker 3: at Harvard, got picked up by well, the Economic Forum
Speaker 3: and not like that's recruiting inside of it. So between
Speaker 3: her and then people who have associations with like the
Speaker 3: Open Side Foundation and stuff, they want to put together
Speaker 3: a new political party, and there's another group that wants
Speaker 3: to put together a similar political party. And all of
Speaker 3: these like nuimal parties that are heading towards the elections
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four are sort of varying shades of
Speaker 3: status quo, but like maybe a tiny bit more border
Speaker 3: security or maybe a tiny bit sort of more market liberalism,
Speaker 3: but fundamentally racial discrimination, big good time, you know, radical
Speaker 3: libertine progressivism, big excellent good time. You know, it's you know,
Speaker 3: none of them are really interested in asking serious questions
Speaker 3: about what's role at the country or you know, where
Speaker 3: it's headed. And everyone's basically accepted what the ns HE
Speaker 3: preached in the nineties as states quote. And so the
Speaker 3: question is between you know, do give back this sort
Speaker 3: of like you know, silly meaning marked compromise or do
Speaker 3: you back back something real and the people who are
Speaker 3: asking for something real is really sort of done to
Speaker 3: the economic Koreeum fighters who want a black nationalist totalitarian
Speaker 3: society in which all minorities are completely excluded from everything
Speaker 3: or pushed into the ocean and the economies run on
Speaker 3: communist principles. Or you have the independence movements, and there's
Speaker 3: only really, sort of the way I see it, there's three
Speaker 3: of them. There's a Enclave separatism, there's Cape separatism, which
Speaker 3: is what I'm involved in, because the Cape, while being
Speaker 3: sort of ethnically non homogeneous, is sort of like a
Speaker 3: creole gradient culture, so there's none of it, so it's
Speaker 3: not quite as contentious as it could be. And then
Speaker 3: There'szoo independence, which unfortunately is not organized as nobody really
Speaker 3: doing much important, but a lot of people are sympathetic,
Speaker 3: so they just need to get organized. And these are
Speaker 3: the only real sort of big questions you can big
Speaker 3: answers to the question you know where South Africa going is?
Speaker 3: Do you muddle along until nothing functions anymore and there's
Speaker 3: nothing worth saving, or do you try to and press
Speaker 3: the button and get like a real solution that may
Speaker 3: be painful and unpopular, but it gives you something worth saving.
Speaker 3: And the thing is we keep denying the second option everywhere,
Speaker 3: every every single stage where we had a reform opportunity,
Speaker 3: we've gone like nah, fam, I'm just going to hang
Speaker 3: about and keep trying to make this ridiculous nonsense work.
Speaker 3: And I mean, there were two major opportunities in the
Speaker 3: previous two dispensations. During the initial Union dispensation, we could
Speaker 3: have stuck what it was called the Cape franchise. That's
Speaker 3: what kind of what Rhodisa did is you have a
Speaker 3: non racial franchise with a property qualification, so only a
Speaker 3: minority of people vote. But if but regardless of race,
Speaker 3: you can enter this class and become a full citizen
Speaker 3: participany political process. That's what the CAPE had until nineteen
Speaker 3: thirty six, if I remember correctly. But instead, what we
Speaker 3: did is we wanted to dilute the vote in order
Speaker 3: to get more Afrikaans people voting. So when the Nationalist
Speaker 3: Party went its first election nineteen twenty four, and so
Speaker 3: what they did is they gave all white people, men, women, children,
Speaker 3: men and women sorry the vote everyone about eighteen the
Speaker 3: more qualified franchise. And that meant that now the majority
Speaker 3: of voters are Afrikaans and the road to Africana Nationalism
Speaker 3: was said, Okay, so now you're going to do you're
Speaker 3: going to do a unit. You're going to have like
Speaker 3: a monoculture likel to a sort of model. Interesting, But
Speaker 3: then what they do is they failed to give the
Speaker 3: black people enough sort of territory that they can autonomously
Speaker 3: govern themselves. It's like if you've looked anyone's ever looked
Speaker 3: at a map at the bunt Tons in South Africa,
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, all these little peppercorn dots everywhere,
Speaker 3: but put it one. I was breaking into how many,
Speaker 3: like six pieces or something, And so I mean, like
Speaker 3: even the ones that were relatively functional that we're confronted
Speaker 3: with extremely ridiculous territorial situations, and you know, they didn't
Speaker 3: want to bite the bullet. The government didn't want to
Speaker 3: bite the bullet and threaten.
Speaker 4: The Just just proof that I live in South Africa.
Speaker 4: The runing blackouts just hit me this side. But I've
Speaker 4: got my My internet's fine and my laptop is charged,
Speaker 4: so we can continue the conversation. Just giving you some
Speaker 4: context that I do live in the third world. I'm
Speaker 4: not a Charlattan, I'm not a hoaxer. Wow, but light
Speaker 4: on just one second, but Rob can continue.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want to say, like this continual refusal
Speaker 3: to choose meaningful options that have that have a sort
Speaker 3: of consistency in terms of how they present themselves to
Speaker 3: the public is I mean, partially it's a result of
Speaker 3: the economic and permanent economic interests upon it as a
Speaker 3: result of I think a lack of willingness to try
Speaker 3: radical solutions. So you have the NC that has these
Speaker 3: erradical ideas, but then the balance of forces isn't in
Speaker 3: their favor. So they come in in the nineties and
Speaker 3: they don't get to they don't get to fulfill any
Speaker 3: of the radical ideas that they really wanted to. They
Speaker 3: just hand out some welfare and and then a few
Speaker 3: ten years later they get the Black Economic Department program
Speaker 3: and it's all sort of like this muddling nonsense. And
Speaker 3: what they do in the meantime is they get the
Speaker 3: solution and they steal everything that isn't nailed down and
Speaker 3: everything goes goes to Helen a handcart. And now we've
Speaker 3: presented in this new period heading into twenty twenty four,
Speaker 3: were heit we're handled at a new option, a new
Speaker 3: set of options, right, is we can really think about. Okay,
Speaker 3: clearly everyone agrees that whatever we're doing though it's not working.
Speaker 3: But the willingness of people to alternative alternative seems to
Speaker 3: be basically tero. If you look at the liberal the
Speaker 3: liberal opposition, the way that they're presenting we have what
Speaker 3: we believe in is how did they put constitutionalism and
Speaker 3: the rule of law? I mean, like, what does that
Speaker 3: even mean? Because I mean, okay, so if they want,
Speaker 3: if they want to say in law and order, I'd
Speaker 3: be like, oh, okay, I see, I see where you're going.
Speaker 3: You want crime gone, you want you know, peace and quiet.
Speaker 3: But it's not that's not what they're really fighting for
Speaker 3: because they know that they can't win that fight. They
Speaker 3: can't really depress the The country's overrun with violent crime.
Speaker 3: I mean, the mining industry has been taken over by
Speaker 3: informal mining gangs to you know, brutally rape people in
Speaker 3: broad daylight. It's crazy nonsense. And they're looking at this
Speaker 3: and they're saying, well, we can make attractive to investors,
Speaker 3: pay off our debt, and then get some functioning public services,
Speaker 3: and then within fifty years maybe we can turn this
Speaker 3: thing around. And my response to that is, well, everyone
Speaker 3: knows that you're a minority party. Do you really think
Speaker 3: you can stay in power for fifty years? Like are
Speaker 3: you where do you guys fall out? It's give it up,
Speaker 3: We'll take what you you know, take what you can
Speaker 3: get away with realistically, And and for me, that's the cape.
Speaker 3: I mean the cape even now. I mean it's like
Speaker 3: it's not a guarantee thing that this is actually a viral,
Speaker 3: viable political enterity in the future. It's like we have
Speaker 3: a chance that we have, we have a chance.
Speaker 4: But just for some production value for your show, you
Speaker 4: got some proof on camera of the state of South Africa.
Speaker 4: Literally while we're talking, are the ruling black arts?
Speaker 2: Hit my side?
Speaker 4: But John, I just wanted to give a little bit
Speaker 4: of a foreboding thing. If you have any European listener
Speaker 4: as you better be preparing for this well.
Speaker 1: As before we started, you you had mentioned to me
Speaker 1: you said we were talking about race, and you said,
Speaker 1: let's talk about culture. And you said, like the culture
Speaker 1: of an africannor and the culture of a white American
Speaker 1: or any American really is or you specifically said a
Speaker 1: white American would be completely different, Like we.
Speaker 4: Know there's a big difference, and people don't get it.
Speaker 4: The best way to answer is actually a question that
Speaker 4: me and Rob get off and is like just when when?
Speaker 4: For example, Rob is and I'll spend time in detail
Speaker 4: etching the situation in South Africa, painting the picture, and
Speaker 4: then a lot of people abroad listen to that story
Speaker 4: and they're like, but why are you still there? Why
Speaker 4: don't you just leave? Why don't you just immigrate? And
Speaker 4: in answering that question, you'll realize what's driving us and
Speaker 4: many people here. The fact is, if I were to
Speaker 4: to immigrate to America within one or two generations, my
Speaker 4: my grandchildren or my children even will not be Afrikaners.
Speaker 4: They will be speaking English. They will be Americans, and
Speaker 4: they will probably not even know their history well. They
Speaker 4: will not know about the Buo Wall, they will not
Speaker 4: know about the Great Trek, they will not know about
Speaker 4: all those stories that I told you at the beginning
Speaker 4: of the stream, and they will they will their their
Speaker 4: tie with their cultural heritage will be severed. And that's
Speaker 4: the thing a lot of and this is a very
Speaker 4: cynical approach, but a lot of people use the situation
Speaker 4: of the Afrikaners that we find ourselves in especially a
Speaker 4: lot of people of the race nationalist bend. They just
Speaker 4: see us as an opportunity to bolster their numbers in
Speaker 4: their own country and that they pretty much are hoping
Speaker 4: for catastrophe in South Africa so that we all flee
Speaker 4: as refugees to their countries so we can bolster their numbers.
Speaker 4: But they don't give a They don't give a shit
Speaker 4: about Afrikaanas or our culture because the reality is, if
Speaker 4: that were to happen, Africana culture is not made to
Speaker 4: be a diasporic culture. We don't have the cultural armor,
Speaker 4: we don't have the cultural tools to be able to
Speaker 4: survive outside of Africa. It just doesn't happen. I mean,
Speaker 4: you will assimilate. Africanas particularly have an inclination to assimilate
Speaker 4: and have shown a willingness and an eagerness to assimilate
Speaker 4: in many of the countries, and it makes sense. It's
Speaker 4: the proper thing to do when you immigrate to a country,
Speaker 4: you assimilate to the host country. That is what the
Speaker 4: proper thing. That's what I expect of someone that lives
Speaker 4: in my community, and that's what I would do if
Speaker 4: I were to move to another community. That's what you
Speaker 4: should do. But that means that if there is no
Speaker 4: future for Africanas in South Africa, there is no future
Speaker 4: at all for the culture. And that's the thing. It's
Speaker 4: when you look at South Africa just through a racial lens,
Speaker 4: you're not going to understand that side of it. You're
Speaker 4: just going to see a a struggle between a white
Speaker 4: minority and a black majority, and you're you're going to
Speaker 4: have no idea why the white minority is still sticking around.
Speaker 4: Why don't they just leave? Why don't they just leave
Speaker 4: to and go live in a white majority country or
Speaker 4: in a first world country, or in a Western country
Speaker 4: or whatever, any place better than South Africa?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: But we stick around? I mean, shit, did I've got
Speaker 4: the means to immigrate and I'm not doing it and
Speaker 4: I'm not planning to ever. And that's the thing. And
Speaker 4: I think that's where that's where your big lesson when
Speaker 4: it comes to South Africa comes in, is the fact
Speaker 4: that when it comes to digging in somewhere and fighting
Speaker 4: for something that's important to you and something that's meaningful
Speaker 4: to you, there is no more meaningful in great life
Speaker 4: than that to be fighting for something genuine I mean,
Speaker 4: a lot of people talk about like these fantasies of
Speaker 4: like living in a post apocalyptic world and like fighting
Speaker 4: for survival. I mean, should do a lot of those
Speaker 4: elements you're going to find in South Africa. I work
Speaker 4: for an organization that's fighting for cultural survival every day
Speaker 4: and I love it and it gives me meaning in
Speaker 4: my life. And there's never been a morning where I
Speaker 4: didn't want to go to work. And that's the that's
Speaker 4: the thing. I'm fighting for something meaningful. And that's what's
Speaker 4: interesting is my colleague Adam's Roots, was in America recently
Speaker 4: and he was talking to a lot of Americans and
Speaker 4: he just came back and he told me a lot
Speaker 4: of them are a lot more pessimistic about the future
Speaker 4: than us. And I'm like, well, there's your insight. Let
Speaker 4: that stew a little bit at the back of your mind.
Speaker 4: Think about the fact that the Americans are more black
Speaker 4: palled about the future than the South Africans or the Africanas.
Speaker 4: I mean, yoh man, but there's the lesson. That's what
Speaker 4: you did. Then you, as an American need to ask
Speaker 4: the question, what can I learn from the Africanas or
Speaker 4: from South Africa that can make me as optimistic about
Speaker 4: the future as these oaks living there at the southern
Speaker 4: tip of Africa and a dysfunctional, dedeveloping country, in a
Speaker 4: shitthole country, How can I get the same type of
Speaker 4: meaning and optimism in my life? And that's the I
Speaker 4: touched on this in my piece for IM seventeen seventy six,
Speaker 4: But it's it's a lot more than that. And the
Speaker 4: big the big thing that I can can tell you
Speaker 4: is the fact that you firstly need to start getting
Speaker 4: active in your community around you. And I think that's
Speaker 4: where a lot of the satisfaction is coming to for Afrikanas.
Speaker 4: When you're living in difficult times, all these opportunities start
Speaker 4: presenting themselves out of necessity. People start doing neighborhood watches
Speaker 4: out of necessity, people start getting involved in community based
Speaker 4: organizations out of necessity. It's not just a hobby. Unfortunately,
Speaker 4: in a lot of First world countries where self Africanization
Speaker 4: is a real reality, you're not going to start seeing
Speaker 4: people do what the Afrikaners are doing until things get
Speaker 4: a lot worse, until they have to start doing things
Speaker 4: out of necessity. Your neighborhood watch can't just be your hobby.
Speaker 4: It needs to be something that you're doing because you
Speaker 4: need to. That's when it comes a real meaningful thing.
Speaker 4: It's not just people driving around having beers and shooting
Speaker 4: guns in the air. Then it's you're actually protecting something
Speaker 4: your love, and you're doing something that you know is
Speaker 4: bigger than your still participating in something bigger than yourself.
Speaker 4: And that's the white Paul that I want people to
Speaker 4: take from South Africas. Don't I see a lot of
Speaker 4: especially young people like Zoomers in the First World in
Speaker 4: America and Europe looking around and thinking, we're all these
Speaker 4: great heroes. The history is full of all these great
Speaker 4: men and great heroes and people that I admire. But
Speaker 4: when I look around, I don't see any people like that. Well,
Speaker 4: let me give you the white paul from living in
Speaker 4: a de developing country like South Africa. When things start
Speaker 4: getting really rough, when you know that adage of good
Speaker 4: times and bad times and all that dynamic works in
Speaker 4: good times, there's no heroes in good times, there's no
Speaker 4: great men around you. Everything is just You're going to
Speaker 4: be struggling to find great men around you. But when
Speaker 4: hard times hit, they're going to be a dime does,
Speaker 4: and they're going to be around you everywhere, and they're
Speaker 4: going to be emerging organically out of the communities around you.
Speaker 4: None of the great leaders that I've encountered in South Africa,
Speaker 4: in my community and from other communities were educated in
Speaker 4: hard to be great men or leaders. They were made
Speaker 4: great leaders and great men through the difficult circumstances. So
Speaker 4: that would be the silver lining as you enter maybe
Speaker 4: hard times, if you can't change the trajectory of your country,
Speaker 4: at least you will start seeing times of great men
Speaker 4: and great leaders once again, and you will have great
Speaker 4: stories and you will have ample opportunity to live a
Speaker 4: great life. And that's one of the things I said
Speaker 4: in that peace of mind, where the benefit of living
Speaker 4: in good times is that you have ample opportunity to
Speaker 4: live a comfortable life. But the benefit of living in
Speaker 4: hard times and bad times is that you have ample
Speaker 4: opportunity to live a great, meaningful life. That's what I
Speaker 4: want people to take from it is that. But you
Speaker 4: also need to start working now. Prevention is a lot
Speaker 4: better than cure. I mean, who would ever forego the
Speaker 4: opportunity to look into the future for free? And as
Speaker 4: my colleague in the Solidata date Bevejngo movement flipbase is
Speaker 4: when he talks about South Africa, he says, in some
Speaker 4: provinces in South Africa, the future has already happened. For example,
Speaker 4: the province where I live, Haating, the future has already happened.
Speaker 4: The province where Rob is living, the Western Cape, the
Speaker 4: future is yet to happen. But I would like to
Speaker 4: use that. I would like to expand that concept on
Speaker 4: a global level, where in South Africa the future has
Speaker 4: already happened, and in America and in Europe the futures
Speaker 4: yet to arrive. So why would you if you were
Speaker 4: able to see the tsunami or the shockwave coming, why
Speaker 4: would you already then start building damn walls and to
Speaker 4: start building defenses and start digging in if you could
Speaker 4: have that foresight, I think that would be my call
Speaker 4: to action to people on the outside looking into South
Speaker 4: Africa's you better start taking notes now. And it's always
Speaker 4: better to be prepared then to let the ship hit
Speaker 4: the fan and then you have to scramble for solutions.
Speaker 4: That's the situation that Africanas were in at the end
Speaker 4: of a parthate. I mean, this is what we were
Speaker 4: talking about off air going back to a previous theme,
Speaker 4: but it does, it does come back. It circles back
Speaker 4: to what I'm talking about now. During a part that
Speaker 4: Africanas were just dependent on the state became became just
Speaker 4: animal state statist animals where you if you need a job,
Speaker 4: you work for the state. The state looks after we
Speaker 4: gave up all our responsibilities to the state. The state
Speaker 4: preserves your culture for you. The state keeps you safe
Speaker 4: through security, the state propagates you and protects your language.
Speaker 4: And then suddenly one day that state changed hands and
Speaker 4: then the state wasn't in control of Africanas anymore. And
Speaker 4: then suddenly we had to learn everything from scratch. Like
Speaker 4: a muscle that hadn't been used for years, it atrified.
Speaker 4: So basically you just ended up having to start building
Speaker 4: again from scratch. And that's the other thing that I
Speaker 4: think another warning from South Africa is don't be tempted
Speaker 4: by the false song. If we were just in charge
Speaker 4: of the state and of the government, then things would
Speaker 4: be or would be fine. No, no, no, no, you
Speaker 4: have to start thinking outside of that. You have to
Speaker 4: start thinking about a different alternative. You can't just think
Speaker 4: about the next election. You have to start thinking about
Speaker 4: the next generation, about planting trees for under which you
Speaker 4: will never be never be able to sit. You can't
Speaker 4: just think about if we just win the next election
Speaker 4: and everything will be different, everything will be fine. And
Speaker 4: trust me, it won't. It won't change a lot. Actually,
Speaker 4: but I see a lot of Americans and Europeans waking
Speaker 4: up to that reality. You're going to have to start
Speaker 4: being the solution yourself. Don't wait for a night or
Speaker 4: a hero on a white horse to appear on the horizon.
Speaker 4: That horse isn't coming. You're going to have to start
Speaker 4: doing that yourself. You're going to have to be the
Speaker 4: hero in your own capacity. And that's I can speak
Speaker 4: from experience of living in hard times in the future.
Speaker 4: I'm speaking to you through a time portal from the futures.
Speaker 4: Like in hard times, you get the opportunity to be
Speaker 4: that hero on the white horse. You don't. You don't
Speaker 4: wait for for that person, because if you're going to
Speaker 4: die waiting, so you better start doing it now. You
Speaker 4: better start in the worst thing. I think one of
Speaker 4: the biggest people always talk about, like reshuffling chairs on
Speaker 4: the Titanic, whatever that metaphor is but I think there's
Speaker 4: a bigger lesson from the Titanic and the big the
Speaker 4: big mistake. Big lesson you need to learn from the
Speaker 4: story of the Titanic is that thousands of people died
Speaker 4: because everyone trusted that everything was going to be okay
Speaker 4: until the last second. Everyone until the last minute believed
Speaker 4: the ship wasn't going to sink, and then the shit
Speaker 4: hit the fan, and then in the last moments people
Speaker 4: started realizing the ship was going to sink, and then
Speaker 4: it was too late. You need to start realizing that
Speaker 4: the system around you is not working and it is
Speaker 4: grinding to a halt, and there's black smoke coming out
Speaker 4: of the pipe of this of this machine, and you
Speaker 4: better start building some life rafts now they're going They
Speaker 4: don't have to be perfect. Perfect is the enemy of
Speaker 4: the of good. Build adequate life raft net pragmatism, be
Speaker 4: your be your guide when it comes to this, leave
Speaker 4: the leave the utopian bullshit behind. Like I'm actually currently
Speaker 4: working on a piece I'm going to title it Africa
Speaker 4: No No Continent for the utopian ideas, where it's when
Speaker 4: you're living in a first world country like the United States,
Speaker 4: you have the luxury of having endless debates about theory
Speaker 4: of like, what's that real liberalism? No, that was that
Speaker 4: real communism? Is that real fascism? Whatever? You have that luxury.
Speaker 4: Me and Robin South Africa, we don't have that luxury
Speaker 4: of just endlessly debating theory. You we're kind of forced
Speaker 4: to work in the the laboratory of pragmatism. You kind
Speaker 4: of forced to work on real world solutions that work.
Speaker 4: When the tire hits the road. You can tell me,
Speaker 4: you can give me a million sources that prove that
Speaker 4: this solution should work. It works on paper, and therefore
Speaker 4: it should work in reality. But if we've tried it
Speaker 4: ten fifteen times and failed in reality every time, we're
Speaker 4: going to have to jettison that idea and try something new.
Speaker 4: So I think, yeah, that's probably where I want to
Speaker 4: end off. Is again just those the main lessons that
Speaker 4: you should learn is the one thing is definitely you
Speaker 4: need to start asking the right questions. I told this
Speaker 4: to Alex Kashuda and me and rob also were on
Speaker 4: her show. The big problem with many people on the
Speaker 4: right when it comes to South Africa is they're looking
Speaker 4: at South Africa to learn the lessons that they want
Speaker 4: to learn, not the lessons that they need to learn.
Speaker 4: And you're going to have to learn the lessons that
Speaker 4: you need to learn, not the lessons that you want
Speaker 4: to learn. I think that's that's where I'm going to
Speaker 4: end it. That's something to keep at the back of
Speaker 4: your mind to think about.
Speaker 6: Rob.
Speaker 2: Do you have anything to say before we close it out?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I mean I'm not going to these high
Speaker 3: for ambitious IDEs andism because it's just it doesn't suit
Speaker 3: my character. But I'll put it this way. It's sort
Speaker 3: of you're going to look around here and realize there's
Speaker 3: no one who's going to come to save you, and
Speaker 3: maybe you can you can sort of content yourself for
Speaker 3: a little while that, Yeah, well, the collapse is coming
Speaker 3: maybe ten, fifteen, twenty fifty years alown the road. Things
Speaker 3: are fine for now, but you know, I think things
Speaker 3: are looking pretty dire, and I think people need to
Speaker 3: start moving. And if you don't see anyone around who
Speaker 3: you can hit, you know, your trailer too, you can
Speaker 3: ride on their coattails. Then you're going to have to
Speaker 3: beat the path of yourself and it's going to suck,
Speaker 3: and you're not going to be very good at it.
Speaker 3: And you're probably going to fail, and you're probably going
Speaker 3: to sappoint a lot of people, but you know, if
Speaker 3: there's no one else, there's no one else.
Speaker 2: So you've got to do it.
Speaker 3: I'm not the guy who's going to trash the idea
Speaker 3: of getting going into politics, because the one thing about
Speaker 3: the West is you still do have a political system
Speaker 3: where we don't have a state. We're a minority that
Speaker 3: doesn't have real representation for the most part, and you know,
Speaker 3: we've got to accept that and work with it. You know,
Speaker 3: our times as you know, people with a state with
Speaker 3: a future sort of it's long over and now we're
Speaker 3: sort of, you know, thinking like moles burrowing into the hills,
Speaker 3: and you don't want to end up in that situation.
Speaker 3: And so you've got a little window of time. It
Speaker 3: doesn't feel like a little window, but it is a
Speaker 3: little window, and you know, use it if you can.
Speaker 3: I think whatever tools are available, those are the ones
Speaker 3: that should that should be used. And I think people
Speaker 3: should act with conviction because a lot of the time
Speaker 3: people sat and are satisfied with us. I think the
Speaker 3: big thing that lives in the West, I think there
Speaker 3: are two things. When people get sucked into the narcissistic
Speaker 3: idea if they just want people to see how their
Speaker 3: perspective and then they're happy sort of like see everything screwed,
Speaker 3: you know, and they'll blame it on Like it doesn't
Speaker 3: matter what they're blaming on, whether it's you Jews or
Speaker 3: oligarchs or you know, foreigners that left. How do you
Speaker 3: want to frame the causes and what have you? The situation?
Speaker 3: How do you defer people? Just want them to just
Speaker 3: want to affirm their picture of things and then move on.
Speaker 3: I mean a good example of that for me would
Speaker 3: be the Dutch Party Foreign for Democracy, who, yeah, their
Speaker 3: leaders a very ineffective historyonic narcissist who despite sounding very
Speaker 3: based on television, doesn't really do much to further the
Speaker 3: cause and has actually been mostly the cause of the
Speaker 3: right in the Netherlands sort of collapsing on its own
Speaker 3: under its own way, and it happens a lot. The
Speaker 3: other thing is that people get satisfied with small victories.
Speaker 3: You'll win an election and then you just sort of
Speaker 3: sit there say haha, we're on top now, it looks okay.
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, he gets in charge, how much did he
Speaker 3: really do to clear up to drain the swamp and
Speaker 3: clear up the people in charge. Well not that much.
Speaker 3: As it turns out. Boris Johnson wins the biggest lead
Speaker 3: that the Conservatives have since, you know, for a bloody
Speaker 3: long time. What does he do with that lead? He
Speaker 3: does nothing. You know, we're now look at Georgia Maloney
Speaker 3: in Italy. Everyone's getting all excited and dewey eyed and
Speaker 3: you know, firm in the trousers. But you know it
Speaker 3: remains to be seen if she's going to do anything.
Speaker 3: And I think those things are important. You know, it's
Speaker 3: this is politics. Isn't a stage show. I mean, it
Speaker 3: does involve a little bit of theatrics, but the functional
Speaker 3: point is to transform your society or to defend it,
Speaker 3: and you know people need to take that seriously. And
Speaker 3: the other thing is again, I mean, I know as
Speaker 3: has picked up on non state solutions, but you know
Speaker 3: in South Africa it's much more tangible. It's like you
Speaker 3: have to provide all of this, all of the state
Speaker 3: functions yourself in many areas.
Speaker 4: Because the state is collapsing around you. Correct, but how
Speaker 4: do you think honestly, you don't even have to ask
Speaker 4: permission because the state can't do anything to stop you right,
Speaker 4: And how do you.
Speaker 3: Think about this If you have a state, if you
Speaker 3: have a civil society, I mean here in the Western Cape,
Speaker 3: it's sort of like a limbo zone where you can
Speaker 3: you can you can see then you can see the
Speaker 3: mud slide approaching you, and you don't know if your
Speaker 3: heart is going to be swept away. But you're also
Speaker 3: aware that things are still a long way off, or
Speaker 3: at least far enough off that you know, so if
Speaker 3: you wanted to, you could park off and have a holiday,
Speaker 3: you know, but it's still coming. And then you've got
Speaker 3: the first world where everything it's easy to be welded
Speaker 3: into a false sense of security. But what have you
Speaker 3: got around you? You haven't got these sort of gaps
Speaker 3: where there are obvious sort of solutions where you can editize.
Speaker 3: I mean, even as organization that he works for, Afri Forum,
Speaker 3: the big thing that they actually got, well, one of
Speaker 3: the bigger things that they got famous for when they
Speaker 3: were sort of a bit smaller was fixing potholes in
Speaker 3: the roads. But in my province we have a sort
Speaker 3: of liberal mostly minority government and ethnic minority government who
Speaker 3: are you know, they're pretty good at keeping the roads paved.
Speaker 3: So then you know what, what's your process for appeal
Speaker 3: to build your organizational structure, it's got to be a
Speaker 3: bit different. You've got to focus on like cultural items
Speaker 3: and sort of labor issues and funny things like that.
Speaker 3: And in Europe it's going to be very difficult because
Speaker 3: you really, you know, there's lots of infiltrators. It's not
Speaker 3: like over here. And I think you're going to have
Speaker 3: to build infrastructure outside the state. You're gonna build networks,
Speaker 3: You've gotta build. I mean, I don't want to teach
Speaker 3: anyone to suck eggs, but I think I think the
Speaker 3: thing is that it's actually kind of in a funny way,
Speaker 3: it's easier when the problem is very immediate because everyone
Speaker 3: can see it. When it's a nebulos like it is
Speaker 3: in Europe, you've got to get really creative, and I don't.
Speaker 3: I sort of I feel very nervous when I look
Speaker 3: at Europe because that's a place where if it falls apart,
Speaker 3: it will fall apart rapidly, and there's not a lot
Speaker 3: you can do to stop it once it gets past
Speaker 3: the point of my return.
Speaker 4: So it's like the difference between a house of cards
Speaker 4: made out of two cards and a house of cards
Speaker 4: made out of a hundred cards collapsing.
Speaker 3: I think that's a good analogy. Yeah, yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 3: ours is a house of cards of two cards like
Speaker 3: you just knock one. Oh wow, it's fallen over. Well,
Speaker 3: let's just put it up a little bit, you know.
Speaker 3: But you know you're in Europe.
Speaker 4: You've got like it and it's cut off card and
Speaker 4: build a little little structure within.
Speaker 3: When that thing falls, you know it's going to it's
Speaker 3: it's not just going it's not just going to be
Speaker 3: a sort of you know, an elegant arrangement. It's going
Speaker 3: to be horribly brutal, you know. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know what people are looking forward to at
Speaker 3: the moment there. But my point is you have nowhere
Speaker 3: to run to, so you know you've got to do something.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know what people do. They're
Speaker 3: going to do something because you know, it's your future,
Speaker 3: it's place, it's you, it's your parture, you know. I mean,
Speaker 3: we've been here long.
Speaker 4: And the other thing is that you should abandoned this
Speaker 4: this idea of well things get bad, I'll just move
Speaker 4: to a different state, or I'll just move to a
Speaker 4: different country. Eventually, tide you run out of the higher
Speaker 4: ground to lead to eventually you're going to drown.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like you can't.
Speaker 6: I mean, what are you going to do.
Speaker 3: You're going to be some derascinated expert floating around the
Speaker 3: Middle East or East Southeast Asia, you know. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's like, that's not a sustainable that's not a sustainable
Speaker 3: model for any community. I don't see I don't see
Speaker 3: that as being I don't see that as being like
Speaker 3: a future anyone wants to be a part of. I mean,
Speaker 3: it certainly can be a future that people end up in,
Speaker 3: and it can be fun, you know, up to up
Speaker 3: to a point, but you know, collectively, that's not that's
Speaker 3: not a future anyone should be designing. So you know
Speaker 3: you're going to pick what you end up as much
Speaker 3: as you can. And I mean, then at least you know,
Speaker 3: if you fail, you can at least you know you
Speaker 3: can go out saying, well, you know, I did my part,
Speaker 3: I've done my duty. I'm not going to feel ashamed
Speaker 3: of myself at the very least, you know you don't
Speaker 3: want to be. It's it's it's the equivalent of going
Speaker 3: to your your mother's funeral and not having parted on
Speaker 3: good good terms. You know, you've got to do your
Speaker 3: you've got to do your heritage, you've got to do
Speaker 3: your future a good term so that you can rested
Speaker 3: lease a little bit easy.
Speaker 1: I think, well, let's end up there, give your plugs
Speaker 1: any anything you want, anything you want.
Speaker 4: To so my plugs are not going to work seeing
Speaker 4: as it's a rolling black art and there's no electricity.
Speaker 4: But now I'll keep it simple and short. If people
Speaker 4: like want to explore more of these types of ideas
Speaker 4: and about and follow a channel and a commentator that
Speaker 4: specifically focuses on culture and politics in Southern Africa, you
Speaker 4: can go to my YouTube channel, a Conscious Caricle, or
Speaker 4: you can follow me on Twitter also conscious Carical. One
Speaker 4: of the jokes always and people ask me like, how
Speaker 4: did you choose your username? What was your plan with
Speaker 4: your whole brand? I'm like, if I if I had
Speaker 4: a plan from the beginning and thought that I was
Speaker 4: going to gain an audience at all, I would have
Speaker 4: chosen the easier name to spell and plug. But if
Speaker 4: you really want to, if you need it spelled art
Speaker 4: on on Twitter, I'm at c O N C A
Speaker 4: R A c A L or just conscious character for
Speaker 4: those that can that can go type it in. And
Speaker 4: then also you can just so check out my YouTube
Speaker 4: and my Twitter and then from there you'll find everything else.
Speaker 4: And that's that's about it.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Well, I have a I have a blog,
Speaker 3: and I have a Twitter handle, and I have a
Speaker 3: YouTube channel, but I don't update the YouTube channel very much,
Speaker 3: and my blog is also sporadic. It depends on what
Speaker 3: I'm working on in my professional capacity. I'm not the
Speaker 3: most organized person. So if I've got any if I'm
Speaker 3: if I'm even marginally busy in my professional life, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't do any of this stuff on the side.
Speaker 3: But I do have a sort of mostly completed documentary
Speaker 3: series so African History that I made on my YouTube
Speaker 3: channel that was really good. That's Marl Barney. That's m
Speaker 3: A R H O B A n E. And then
Speaker 3: I mean there's like a few sort of like essays
Speaker 3: which I read out and took questions on on that
Speaker 3: channel as well. And then my my substack has a
Speaker 3: whole bunch of stuff varying from you know, like meditative
Speaker 3: you know, reflections on sort of literature and philosophy and history,
Speaker 3: and stuff and politics and electoral politics and coach. Yeah,
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff mostly centered on CI Africa,
Speaker 3: but a case you global politics. Also Marl Banni at substack.
Speaker 3: And then now on Twitter, I'm under my own name,
Speaker 3: I mean the handles at Marl Barney, but the the
Speaker 3: name of the account is my name, Robert Dagens d
Speaker 3: U I G A N. There's only one of me
Speaker 3: because it's a fairly unusual little Irish surname. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so you can check that out if you really want
Speaker 3: to and hopefully find it interesting.
Speaker 4: I then, for more context on the I think what
Speaker 4: I was talking about on the show, you can go
Speaker 4: read my im seventeen seventy six piece A Time to
Speaker 4: Dig Trenches. I think that I'll give you a lot
Speaker 4: more in depth, nuanced than what we were able to
Speaker 4: fit in an A and of sure.
Speaker 1: I will make sure to link to all of that
Speaker 1: so that people can get easy access. So man, thank
Speaker 1: you very much. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4: All right, thank you, cheers walk well, God bless.
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Peak and
Speaker 1: Yona Show. I am pleased today to be talking to
Speaker 1: mister Simon Roche. Is it how do we pronounce your name?
Speaker 6: Is it roach? Everybody says roch or roach, but technically
Speaker 6: it's Rosch. It's a French word that means stone.
Speaker 1: A rush sounds good to me. Welcome to the show,
Speaker 1: Tell everybody a little bit of yourself.
Speaker 6: And thank you very much for having us Pete. My
Speaker 6: name is Simon Rosch. I represent an organization called Southlanders.
Speaker 6: The first vowel sound is a bit tricky. It's sui
Speaker 6: d Landers, Sui d Landers and Southlanders means Southlanders or
Speaker 6: Southern as if you prefer. And Southlanders is a civil
Speaker 6: defense organization constituted as such under international law. South African
Speaker 6: organization dedicated to the planning and preparation of a national
Speaker 6: emergency plan in the event of a civil war in
Speaker 6: South Africa, which sounds very extreme and dramatic until you
Speaker 6: consider the I suppose the background South Africa as an
Speaker 6: unstable country, as it's proven over the past thirty years,
Speaker 6: and we happen to be those people who believe that
Speaker 6: the trajectory like a ball sailing through the air of
Speaker 6: South Africa is quite clear. We're headed for some sort
Speaker 6: of a collision, a crisis. The country can't go forever.
Speaker 6: The way. It has been going under ANC rule for
Speaker 6: almost the past thirty years, since the twenty seventh of
Speaker 6: April nineteen ninety four, without eventually some crisis emerging. So
Speaker 6: we're a civil defense organization constituted under the specific provisions
Speaker 6: of international law, particularly but not only, the Jeevan Geneva Conventions.
Speaker 6: The protocol are known as the Protocols additional to the
Speaker 6: Geneva Conventions, which make specific provision, very specific provision for
Speaker 6: identifiable ethnic groups to prepare to defend themselves in the
Speaker 6: event of a calamity in their country, whether that be
Speaker 6: a civil war or international war, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 6: And so we're just those people. Were the largest organization
Speaker 6: of our sort in the world, and if anybody has
Speaker 6: an interest, they welcome to visit state Lounders s u
Speaker 6: id landers dot org the largest organization of our sort
Speaker 6: in the world. And I represent the organization. I'm a
Speaker 6: salaried employee. I'm paid to do the work that I do,
Speaker 6: and I'm presently in the United States spreading the word
Speaker 6: and endeavoring to raise funds for the work that we do.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the people who watch the
Speaker 1: show are aware, at least if not in depth, have
Speaker 1: a cursory knowledge of everything that's going on in South
Speaker 1: Africa and has been since what's known as apartheid ended.
Speaker 1: But I would like you to start by doing an
Speaker 1: overview of the history of South Africa. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people believe that South Africa is a place
Speaker 1: where it was completely inhabited by indigenous Black Africans and
Speaker 1: the white man came in and pushed them out or
Speaker 1: enslaved them. And is that a proper narrative or is
Speaker 1: that something that is just made up, like a lot
Speaker 1: of the history we hear in the world now.
Speaker 6: No, it's a gross exaggeration, Pete. The first permanent settlement
Speaker 6: was established in South Africa in sixteen fifty two, and
Speaker 6: at that time the whites, the colonizers, they were Dutch.
Speaker 6: The first permanent settlement was what is now known as
Speaker 6: Cape Town, well it was then as well, and those
Speaker 6: people worked for the Dutch East India Company and they
Speaker 6: met Indigenous Africans, particularly the people known as bushman. The
Speaker 6: politically correct term for bushman is san but it's actually
Speaker 6: a very nasty word. It's a black word for robber
Speaker 6: or thief. So it's politically correct stupidity, really, the stupidity
Speaker 6: of academics and elitists who can't speak a word of
Speaker 6: an indigenous language, true to form. And the bushmen are
Speaker 6: very small people, very scattered people, and there was kind
Speaker 6: of a modus vivendi, you know that there was stealing
Speaker 6: and reprisals and what have you. But the colonizers and
Speaker 6: the bushmen coexisted because the region is very, very spacious.
Speaker 6: About one hundred and twenty five years later, the then
Speaker 6: commander of the fort at Cape Town got it into
Speaker 6: his head to search out black people because he was
Speaker 6: in Africa, you know what I mean. And all he'd
Speaker 6: met was the little, yellow skinned, very petite bushmen who
Speaker 6: lived in small family groups, very scattered, without much without
Speaker 6: any governance of any description whatsoever, and without much social
Speaker 6: structure apart from these tiny little family groups. And he
Speaker 6: wanted to know where the where all the black people are.
Speaker 6: He's in Africa, you know, he was supposed to have
Speaker 6: black shir And so he set out on a journey
Speaker 6: to find proper dark skin, dark curly head, broad shouldered
Speaker 6: black people as you know them. And he found them
Speaker 6: about six hundred miles away from Cape Town. After almost
Speaker 6: a two year search on the east bank of the
Speaker 6: famous Great Fish River, and that one anecdote tells you
Speaker 6: the whole story. It tells you everything that you need
Speaker 6: to know. Excuse me on the simple reality is that
Speaker 6: South Africa was so sparsely populated, and indeed an enormous
Speaker 6: portion of it not populated at all by Black Africans,
Speaker 6: that it took the proto whites of South Africa, the
Speaker 6: first whites of South Africa, one hundred and twenty five
Speaker 6: years to meet up with the Negroid to use the
Speaker 6: technical term the Negroid black people of Africa as everybody
Speaker 6: knows them. And if that is not instructive, then nothing
Speaker 6: will ever teach anybody anything. It took the whites of
Speaker 6: South Africa one hundred and twenty five years to meet
Speaker 6: the first also people, the first black people before the Zulus,
Speaker 6: the Sutus, the Twanas, the de barely and so on, one
Speaker 6: hundred and twenty five years. And you know, today was
Speaker 6: flicking through Tweeter and a black South African was making
Speaker 6: some sort of cynical observations of African National Congress government
Speaker 6: and he was pointing out that it's a very little
Speaker 6: known fact that the majority of farmland in South Africa
Speaker 6: is owned by black people. And as you and I know,
Speaker 6: there's been this anc campaign over the past thirty years
Speaker 6: to repatriate the land to the blacks, and liberals and
Speaker 6: imbeciles have the idea in their minds that the whites
Speaker 6: own all of the farmland and the blacks are cooped
Speaker 6: up in teeny tiny little I don't know what, like
Speaker 6: Brazilian favelas or something. And it's an absolute fallacy, even
Speaker 6: right through a Part eight. Aside from privately owned black land,
Speaker 6: aside from black townships, the Zulu Kingdom's Trust, which is
Speaker 6: called the Ingonyama Trust owned and still does own thirty
Speaker 6: two percent of the Zulu Province, the Zulu Land Province,
Speaker 6: the Quadzulu Province formerly known as the Natel Province. And
Speaker 6: that's just one anecdote. I could give you hundreds that
Speaker 6: might give a sense of perspective on this thing. It's very,
Speaker 6: very very poorly understood. It's not like the United States
Speaker 6: of America. It's not like whatever other example you want
Speaker 6: to pluck out of thin air. South Africa is. South
Speaker 6: Africa was very sparsely populated. It took over a century
Speaker 6: for whites and blacks as such to meet, and to
Speaker 6: this day black people occupy and own a significant portion
Speaker 6: of the country.
Speaker 1: I know that mining minerals gems are a part of
Speaker 1: the history. When did that start and did that bring
Speaker 1: tension among the people.
Speaker 6: So in reply to your question, naturally it created tension,
Speaker 6: I should point out to you. And this is very
Speaker 6: very well recorded. This is not some convenient right wing
Speaker 6: racist maniac statistic. People can look this up for themselves.
Speaker 6: In the early part of the nineteenth century, that is
Speaker 6: to say that early eighteen hundreds. In eighteen oh seven,
Speaker 6: the British Empire banned the slave trade, but the banning
Speaker 6: of slave ownership only occurred in eighteen thirty four. So
Speaker 6: those are two salient figures for your audience members to
Speaker 6: remember for the rest of their lives. If people talk
Speaker 6: about slavery and slaving and what have you, eighteen oh seven,
Speaker 6: right throughout the British Empire, the slave trade is banned.
Speaker 6: I can't buy slaves anymore. I can't sell you slaves anymore.
Speaker 6: But I'm going to hang on to the slaves that
Speaker 6: I do have. And that lasted for twenty seven years
Speaker 6: until eighteen thirty four. Now that's almost an aside. It's
Speaker 6: not really that relevant to what I'm about to say,
Speaker 6: but it gives some sense of perspective. During that period,
Speaker 6: an event known as the Great Crushing occurred, the infantah
Speaker 6: Neh and all of that. There's absolute consensus between all
Speaker 6: serious scholars on this subject, and that is that the
Speaker 6: number of black people in South Africa at that time
Speaker 6: was roughly three million. And in this Great Crushing, this
Speaker 6: enormous civil war between black people, not involving whites at
Speaker 6: all at all, no whites participated. There's no record, there's
Speaker 6: no allegation, there's no claim, there's no nothing. The blacks
Speaker 6: killed about two thirds of their population, something like two thirds,
Speaker 6: and they're fantastic records of this. And these were in
Speaker 6: regions that had not been ever occupied by whites, because
Speaker 6: the whites had not yet fled the Cape of Good
Speaker 6: Hope in reaction to the slaving laws. It was only
Speaker 6: after eighteen thirty four that the whites said, we hate
Speaker 6: the British Empire. We don't want anything more to do
Speaker 6: with the Queen. They can all go to hell. We're
Speaker 6: leaving this colony, this British colony. By then it was British,
Speaker 6: although it was founded by the Dutch, and we're setting
Speaker 6: off into the hinterland to create new republics, the famous
Speaker 6: poor republics. And off they went. But that began only
Speaker 6: in response to the slaving dramas of eighteen thirty four
Speaker 6: and thereabouts. So prior to that, in the regions outside
Speaker 6: of those or that large region occupied by the whites
Speaker 6: and the bushmen, only the whites and the bushmen, the
Speaker 6: very sparsely scattered, the scarified bushmen. Only. It was only
Speaker 6: in the mid is that the whites left that region
Speaker 6: and went into the regions that had hitherto been occupied
Speaker 6: by the blacks. And whether people like this argument or not,
Speaker 6: the reality is that the whites went into a region
Speaker 6: you can look it up, of about seven hundred eight
Speaker 6: hundred thousand square kilometers. I don't know what that is
Speaker 6: in miles and square miles that was settled only by
Speaker 6: about a million people who had survived the infectani and
Speaker 6: liberal what do you call these people? Liberal missionaries, liberal adventurers,
Speaker 6: David Livingston and the like. They recorded, never mind the conservatives,
Speaker 6: the terrible racist, the white South Africans, blah blah blah.
Speaker 6: The liberals recorded how they treked for days and days
Speaker 6: and days, sometimes weeks without seeing a living soul, but
Speaker 6: seeing tens of thousands of corpses and skeletons and so
Speaker 6: on scattered all over the show. So that's by way
Speaker 6: of giving some background to the mineral question. In the
Speaker 6: eighteen sixties and eighteen eighties, golden diamonds were discovered, the
Speaker 6: largest load of or resource, if you like, of diamonds
Speaker 6: in the world. And then, certainly and until today the
Speaker 6: US United States Geological Survey claims on its website until
Speaker 6: today that the largest gold resources in the world, over
Speaker 6: fifty percent, not just the largest, but over fifty percent
Speaker 6: of all of the world's gold resources until today, reside
Speaker 6: in South African soil. So along come the whites. They
Speaker 6: go into this very depopulated country. They set up these
Speaker 6: boyer republics. They leave the black people to their own devices,
Speaker 6: that is to say, you've got your place, no problem,
Speaker 6: we all settle over here. This was a very well
Speaker 6: known thing. There was very little pushing out or anything
Speaker 6: of that nature. If you're there, considering that you're very
Speaker 6: few and we're very few, well everything should be okay.
Speaker 6: And then the whites discovered the minerals and of course,
Speaker 6: to this day it causes enormous resentment because there is
Speaker 6: the perception among black people that if you hadn't held
Speaker 6: us back, you know, we were surging forward. We were
Speaker 6: on the very verge of breaks through out of the
Speaker 6: Stone Age into the Space Age or whatever. If you
Speaker 6: hadn't discovered those mineral resources and exploited them for yourselves,
Speaker 6: well we would have found them, and we would have
Speaker 6: built mind shafts and mines and what have you. But
Speaker 6: it's an argument that's not taken very seriously, not even
Speaker 6: by Black people. Hopelessly unrealistic argument. So yes, it does
Speaker 6: cause tension and resentment and what have you, but it's
Speaker 6: not a terribly serious argument in pragmatic terms.
Speaker 1: Well, if you're into the late eighteen hundreds, why don't
Speaker 1: you jump into the nineteen hundreds and bring.
Speaker 2: Us up to.
Speaker 1: What would have caused what is known as apartheid.
Speaker 6: Well, the Bours formed excuse me, two republics. So the
Speaker 6: Burs are the white descendants of the first Dutch settlers
Speaker 6: intermingled with French Huguenots, that is to say, French protestants
Speaker 6: fleeing the revocation of the Edict of Nant. I won't
Speaker 6: get into all of the details, but for your religious
Speaker 6: listeners that may be relevant. Intermingled with demobili German Lutheran soldiers,
Speaker 6: so in other words, soldiers from the north of Germany
Speaker 6: following that various wars. I wanted to say that Eighty
Speaker 6: Years War, but that was a bit before. So you
Speaker 6: had these three groups who came in in the sixteen
Speaker 6: hundreds and they intermarried and they formed a new breed
Speaker 6: of people, as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle of Sherlock Holmes
Speaker 6: fame described so very eloquently in his book on the
Speaker 6: World War. And they settled and they hung around Cape
Speaker 6: Town for a long time, from the mid sixteen hundreds
Speaker 6: until the eighteen thirties. As I've already described to you,
Speaker 6: following the imposition of British laws upon the people of
Speaker 6: the colony, they decided to leave and they founded three
Speaker 6: new republics. We're going to leave the one on the
Speaker 6: one side, because it was almost immediately taken over by
Speaker 6: the British was a bit of a failure in that sense.
Speaker 6: And the two well known republics were the Orange Free
Speaker 6: State and the Transvole, which by the way, is not
Speaker 6: its correct name, but it's the name that people might recognize.
Speaker 6: In eighteen fifty two and eighteen fifty four, eighteen fifty two,
Speaker 6: the Transvole and then ironically the lower portion, the first
Speaker 6: that was discovered only became a republic two years later.
Speaker 6: They became known as the Boer republics. Boer means farmer.
Speaker 6: So these Dutch slash Hugenot Lutheran people, and they were
Speaker 6: characterized by their religion that the French and the Germans
Speaker 6: they were Huguenots. They were not French people. They were
Speaker 6: French Protestants fleeing the revocation of the Edict of Nant
Speaker 6: and the Germans were Lutheran Germans who'd been demobilized following
Speaker 6: certain European wars. They're looking for a place to go.
Speaker 6: These people formed this kind of proto nation. And when
Speaker 6: that those people went out to form these new republics,
Speaker 6: all they really just ran away from British rule. They
Speaker 6: didn't know that they were going to form republics. They
Speaker 6: began to call themselves trakburen, which means pull farmers or
Speaker 6: itinerant farmers, and the name bur stuck so to this day.
Speaker 6: The Afrikana, the Afrikaans speaking people of South Africa, the
Speaker 6: very conservative, tough ones, the famous ones are referred to
Speaker 6: themselves as boors, which means farmers. It's people very closely
Speaker 6: attached to the land. It's quite almost a sensitive thing,
Speaker 6: you know. There's a deep, deep dep thing of the
Speaker 6: soil is under our fingernails, and we don't clean it
Speaker 6: out from there. And those two republics declared independence in
Speaker 6: eighteen fifty two and eighteen fifty four. Lo and behold
Speaker 6: gold was I mean, diamonds were discovered in the eighteen
Speaker 6: sixties in the one province, and so Queen Victoria bought
Speaker 6: that portion of that province for the South Africans who
Speaker 6: watched the same may not be aware that Kimberly and
Speaker 6: surrounding areas was once part of the Orange Free State.
Speaker 6: And then gold was discovered and the British invaded. It
Speaker 6: was a long series of pretexts and dramas and nonsense
Speaker 6: and what have you. But the Boer War took place
Speaker 6: between eighteen ninety nine and nineteen oh one, and within
Speaker 6: a few months, the very very few months, many people
Speaker 6: don't know this, the British had practically won. They had
Speaker 6: won ninety percent of the war. Just a few holdouts,
Speaker 6: and I do mean just a few months. The balance
Speaker 6: of the two years was just a matter of a
Speaker 6: few holdouts riding through the Felt endeavoring to escape. The
Speaker 6: British absolutely steamrolled the tiny, tiny bour force of about
Speaker 6: thirty odd thousand men, and in the process, as is
Speaker 6: well known, the British established not the first concentration camps
Speaker 6: in modern history, but certainly the second or third. And
Speaker 6: they starved to death something like thirty thousand Boer women
Speaker 6: and children, which was a fantastic proportion of the population.
Speaker 6: And the British then that ends in nineteen oh one,
Speaker 6: nineteen oh two, but two thousand and I mean, I
Speaker 6: think at nineteen ten the British established complete rule over
Speaker 6: South Africa. It was broken up into four provinces and
Speaker 6: the British ruled from nineteen ten until nineteen sixty, and
Speaker 6: that was known as the Union of South Africa. The
Speaker 6: majority of the white people remained Afrikaans speaking, so in
Speaker 6: other words, the Afrikana bur people, and the minority of
Speaker 6: whites in South Africa was the English speaking people. Yeah,
Speaker 6: the English speaking people. So there was this very dominant
Speaker 6: Buor folk, but they didn't have their own government. It
Speaker 6: was a British colony, and they brought in the a
Speaker 6: part of what later became known as the Aparthe eight Laws.
Speaker 6: They didn't give the name A Part eight to those laws,
Speaker 6: but they were the ones the British who said, well, look,
Speaker 6: if we're going to be running this place, you know,
Speaker 6: the boys have been a bit slap dash about these things.
Speaker 6: They've been allowing the Blacks to settle wherever they want
Speaker 6: and occupy whatever land they wanted. There's been a very
Speaker 6: cozy relationship here. But we need to formalize things. We
Speaker 6: British colonizers, we don't play around when it comes to colonialism.
Speaker 6: We need rules, strict lots of strict rules. And so
Speaker 6: they brought in the idea of blacks being able to
Speaker 6: travel on the same train, or only being able to
Speaker 6: travel on one compartment of a train, while the rest is,
Speaker 6: you know, one hundred people in one compartment whereas ten
Speaker 6: people in another six compartments. They're devoted to whites. They
Speaker 6: brought in the first group areas acts and so on
Speaker 6: and so forth. Which is not to say that conservative
Speaker 6: white South Africans like myself abdicate all responsibility. That we say,
Speaker 6: all goodness me, we would never have been so brutal.
Speaker 6: It's the British who did that. That's not the point.
Speaker 6: What we're saying is we were advocates of a Part eight. However,
Speaker 6: don't make the mistake of believing that we came up
Speaker 6: with the idea. It was in place for fifty one
Speaker 6: years before the South Africa became a republic, before we
Speaker 6: were no longer a colony of Great Britain and the
Speaker 6: South African Aparthe eight ended effectively in nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 6: I won't go into the details, but if you would
Speaker 6: prefer not to give me the benefit of the doubt,
Speaker 6: then let's say nineteen ninety four when the ANC formally
Speaker 6: took over. So that means there was fifty one years
Speaker 6: of British colonial rule during which all of those laws
Speaker 6: were established by none all of them, and then a
Speaker 6: Part eight as people know it, as people blame us for,
Speaker 6: because they never blame the flaming British, do they ever
Speaker 6: a Part eight? Real aparties. It was not fifty one years,
Speaker 6: It was at most thirty three years, but actually a
Speaker 6: little bit lease. So I think that that's kind of
Speaker 6: a comprehensive answer to your question.
Speaker 1: Pete well, I think a lot of people would like
Speaker 1: to know what life was like.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't I'm not asking your age.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you were conscious of what was
Speaker 1: going on when apartheid was under way, but a lot
Speaker 1: of from everything that Western media would tell us, it
Speaker 1: was just basically oppression of blacks all day, every day
Speaker 1: and white Scots to live like kings and enslave them.
Speaker 1: And they make it seem like no white person in
Speaker 1: the country was working at the time. So can you
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about what conditions were actually like.
Speaker 6: Relatively speaking? They were poor, relatively speaking, white people lived
Speaker 6: in well. For instance, I don't come from a wealthy family,
Speaker 6: not at all. My dad worked in a factory. He
Speaker 6: worked his way up to a senior position, but he
Speaker 6: was a tree worker and we were five kids, so
Speaker 6: there wasn't a lot of money. And I grew up
Speaker 6: during the seventies and eighties. I'm born in nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 6: I'm fifty two years old now, so I grew up
Speaker 6: in that period. Following the impositions of sanctions by the
Speaker 6: world in the mid seventies. Beginning in the mid seventies,
Speaker 6: were now our rand value collapsed. So to give you
Speaker 6: a sense of perspective, a bigger partner dollar now costs
Speaker 6: a twenty ran. When I was a kid, a dollar
Speaker 6: cost fifty of our cents, so our rand currency was
Speaker 6: worth twice as much as the dollar. And then the
Speaker 6: sanctions were imposed and it was all broken and destroyed
Speaker 6: forever more and then exacerbated obviously when the ANC took over.
Speaker 6: But we grew up in a house of a double
Speaker 6: story brick house on a sixteenth of an acre, five bedrooms,
Speaker 6: you know, that kind of standard, very comfortable Western European thing.
Speaker 6: You know, the kind of house you would like to
Speaker 6: you would statistically we're likely to grow up in as
Speaker 6: an American or a Canadian, or a middle class Australian,
Speaker 6: New Zealander or South Africa. And obviously white people are
Speaker 6: bigger part in. Black people didn't have that. Black people
Speaker 6: didn't have the opportunity to obtain such wealth. The overwhelming
Speaker 6: majority lived in what were known as four rooms, the
Speaker 6: famous four rooms that were built by the apartheid government.
Speaker 6: And I'll tell you an interesting story. I was the
Speaker 6: project manager of a very very famous, probably the most
Speaker 6: famous African National Congress conference ever. I was a what's
Speaker 6: known as a special projects projects manager, So things like
Speaker 6: opening ceremonies of the Olympics or the World I never
Speaker 6: did the Olympics, I'm just giving an example, or the
Speaker 6: closing ceremony of the World Cup of Football, or presidential inaugurations.
Speaker 6: That's what I did for an occupation for many years.
Speaker 6: And at this very famous conference, very very big, huge,
Speaker 6: there was a riot among the ANC, the senior members
Speaker 6: of the ANC, the five thousand most senior members of
Speaker 6: the ANC. Within the venue, there wasn't a room big
Speaker 6: enough to hold the conference. A room in South Africa,
Speaker 6: no indoor sports stadium, no nothing. And so a huge
Speaker 6: tent was rented on Germany and it was imported and
Speaker 6: this tent was erected for this enormous conference, five thousand
Speaker 6: most senior members plus others, five thousand, five hundred people
Speaker 6: in the room. I'm the project manager. I'm standing at
Speaker 6: the back, you know, making sure that everything's going well,
Speaker 6: that the audio visual is going well, the audio that
Speaker 6: is that that da da da da. And this riot
Speaker 6: breaks up, people beating one another over the head with
Speaker 6: chairs and desks and what have you. And the guy
Speaker 6: next to me was a friend of mine, and he
Speaker 6: was a famous ANC activist. It was pure coincidence that
Speaker 6: he and I were in the role that we were in.
Speaker 6: We weren't there as anything but technicians as it were,
Speaker 6: of the event. And this guy's name is Mobi Mobi Mabaso.
Speaker 6: It means ugly. His mother called him ugly when he
Speaker 6: was born. That's his real name. And knowing that besides
Speaker 6: being an audio visual gene, he was an ANC activist
Speaker 6: and a very good friend of mine, I was able
Speaker 6: to turn to him and say, what now, movie, what
Speaker 6: the flip is going on now? And he said to me, Simon,
Speaker 6: people are upset that in the By then the ANC
Speaker 6: had been in power for fourteen years, he said, and
Speaker 6: we took over the building of the houses. We started
Speaker 6: building rubbish. So black people lived in these famous four
Speaker 6: room houses built by a Part eight, which were supposedly
Speaker 6: disgusting and disgraceful. But fourteen years later, the entire leadership
Speaker 6: of the African National Congress, five thousand people were beating
Speaker 6: one another over the head with desks and chairs and
Speaker 6: what are known as Gooseneck microphones over the inability of
Speaker 6: the African National Congress to deliver to black people a
Speaker 6: fraction of what white people had been able to deliver.
Speaker 6: I think that my answer gives you a sense of perspective.
Speaker 6: Nobody's alleging that black people lived like kings. But what
Speaker 6: is a matter of fact is that black people in
Speaker 6: white in a part eight South Africa were afforded a
Speaker 6: standard of living by the state, by the state that
Speaker 6: was incomparable throughout Africa and certainly has not been compared
Speaker 6: in the intervening thirty years.
Speaker 1: Simon, let me ask you. You mentioned that in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety four the ANC took over. Was that an I
Speaker 1: assume that was an election, right?
Speaker 6: Yeah. By the mid eighties it became clear that the
Speaker 6: South Africa's position was untenable. Now this is debatable and
Speaker 6: conservative white South Africans who watched this video might become
Speaker 6: very offended by what I'm about to say, but they
Speaker 6: must also understand that I have to I can't spend
Speaker 6: fifty fifteen hours on this interview, so I have to
Speaker 6: keep things simple and the best way to do that
Speaker 6: is to go for the general. So the general is
Speaker 6: this Universal sanctions and a twenty seven percent annual inflation
Speaker 6: rate made South Africa's sustainability very difficult. And through a
Speaker 6: series of shenanigans and false moves and deceit and all
Speaker 6: sorts of devious things. In nineteen ninety the government presented
Speaker 6: White South Africa with a referendum, a beggar pardon sorry,
Speaker 6: a bigger parton in nineteen ninety the government released Nelson
Speaker 6: Mandela under phenomenal pressure February nineteen ninety. Then in nineteen
Speaker 6: ninety two, the government asked White South Africa to vote
Speaker 6: on continuing negotiations with the African National Congress. So there
Speaker 6: was a sticking point, a real impasse at that time.
Speaker 6: Conservative White South Africa were saying how dare you betray us?
Speaker 6: And liberal White South Africa were saying, well, you've got
Speaker 6: to do more. And there was a lot of agitation
Speaker 6: within the country, a lot of violence, political murders, Winnie
Speaker 6: Mandela and her necklacing. It was a difficult, difficult time,
Speaker 6: and White South Africans, allegedly whether the vote or the
Speaker 6: results were true or not is another matter, allegedly voted
Speaker 6: just over two thirds yes, please continue negotiations with the
Speaker 6: African National Congress so that we can hold free and fair,
Speaker 6: multi racial, universal plebisite elections and we can get back
Speaker 6: to playing rugby with the rest of the world, and
Speaker 6: international cricket and free trade and so on and so forth,
Speaker 6: and investment. We want McCain's vegetables to appear on our
Speaker 6: super mar shells. We want Burger king to appear in
Speaker 6: South afrik so on and so forth. So yes, nineteen
Speaker 6: ninety Nelson mandelas released nineteen ninety two, this huge seminal
Speaker 6: rubicon crossing of the rubicon moment election is held. And
Speaker 6: then in nineteen ninety four, on the twenty seventh of
Speaker 6: April nineteen ninety four, the first multiracial election was held.
Speaker 6: It was won by the African National Congress under the
Speaker 6: leadership of Nelson Mandela.
Speaker 2: What happened after that.
Speaker 6: Well, the A and C took over and they were
Speaker 6: given arguably the greatest benefit of the doubt of any
Speaker 6: ruling party in government in the history of the world.
Speaker 6: They could do no wrong. The African National Congress has
Speaker 6: spent thirty years one of the world's gems. Now to
Speaker 6: some people, that makes no difference. Some people will say
Speaker 6: to you, well, it doesn't matter. Freedom and equality and
Speaker 6: justice are all that count. And those were not present
Speaker 6: during A Part eight, not for the majority the black majority. Therefore,
Speaker 6: it doesn't matter. The ANC remains legitimate. The entire process
Speaker 6: is a legitimate. The New South Africa, or the Rainbow
Speaker 6: Nation as it's called, is legitimate. Fine, no problem, it's okay.
Speaker 6: We're not going down that road here. I'm just going
Speaker 6: to tell you that whether a Part eight was good
Speaker 6: or bad, whether the New South Africa is good or bad,
Speaker 6: it's a catastrophe of the first class. And I'll give
Speaker 6: you some illustrations at the times prior to and after.
Speaker 6: We keep it simple. Prior to nineteen ninety four, South
Speaker 6: Africa produced more than double the electricity produced by all
Speaker 6: of the rest of the now fifty four countries of Africa,
Speaker 6: so one versus fifty three. But at the time there
Speaker 6: weren't fifty four countries. I think there were fifty two,
Speaker 6: so it was one versus fifty one. So one country
Speaker 6: produced more than double all of the electricity that the
Speaker 6: other fifty one put together were able to produce. South
Speaker 6: Africa produced more than double the potable water that the
Speaker 6: other fifty one countries of Africa were able to produce.
Speaker 6: South Africa's standards of education for black people were country
Speaker 6: miles ahead of the majority of African countries, the aparthe
Speaker 6: government provide. I did the famous four room houses to
Speaker 6: all black families. The four room houses that I've already
Speaker 6: described to you. Chris Hahni Baragwanath Hospital in Soweto is
Speaker 6: or was, i should say, the largest hospital in the
Speaker 6: world for decades and decades and decades. So there were
Speaker 6: many features of a party that were far more beneficial
Speaker 6: to Black Africans than freedom. Democracy, love, peace and the
Speaker 6: wind blowing through your hair are to them now, and
Speaker 6: I'll give you a few illustrations of the negatives. In
Speaker 6: the week prior to my departure for the USA, the
Speaker 6: daily rotational blackouts, every man, woman and child in the
Speaker 6: country has the same, but it's staggered forty five minutes
Speaker 6: for my suburb, then an hour and a half for yours,
Speaker 6: then two and a half hour for the next cup.
Speaker 6: The national blackouts were nine and a half hours a
Speaker 6: day no electricity, and in the previous week to that
Speaker 6: they were eleven and a half hours a day. Now,
Speaker 6: imagine trying to use a cell phone, use the internet,
Speaker 6: run a machine shop, run a beauty parlor, run a
Speaker 6: dollar store. Imagine trying to do schooling, education, imagine trying
Speaker 6: to run a hospital with out electricity. It's too much
Speaker 6: for your mind, Pete. It really is that bad. The
Speaker 6: economy of Africa is absolutely dominated. And if anybody would
Speaker 6: like to now take advantage of this opportunity to pull
Speaker 6: up a map of Africa while I'm waffling, they can
Speaker 6: do so very easily. Just type into Google or open
Speaker 6: Google Earth. If you pull up a map of Africa,
Speaker 6: zoom in to the bottom and hopefully you will be
Speaker 6: able to identify the province of kW Teng. kW Teng
Speaker 6: is a teeny tiny little province in South Africa, miniature
Speaker 6: and it produces almost one fifth of the GDP of
Speaker 6: all of Africa to this day. Now imagine being the
Speaker 6: province of kW Teng and the African National Congress says,
Speaker 6: we and Africa really need you keep going, boy, but
Speaker 6: we can't give you electricity. It's a flaming joke, Pete.
Speaker 6: That is African National Congress rule. It is Africanist rule.
Speaker 6: It's the rule of inability, the rule of incompetence, the
Speaker 6: rule of lack, the rule of failure, the rule of poor, poor, weak, inferior,
Speaker 6: eleven and a half hours a day and not three
Speaker 6: decades ago, South Africa was producing more than double the
Speaker 6: electricity of all of the other countries of Africa put together.
Speaker 6: That's African National Congress rule for you. Pete.
Speaker 1: Is it incompetence or is it punishment or is it both?
Speaker 6: I would say that it's both. I would say that
Speaker 6: the punishment or the spitefulness has got a lot to
Speaker 6: do with the global elites. So, at the risk of
Speaker 6: saying something that becomes mystical, and you know your audience
Speaker 6: finds annoying, I think that by now any thoughtful person
Speaker 6: has figured out for themselves that the COVID pandemic and
Speaker 6: the clot shot program and many other things that occur
Speaker 6: in the world are not do not occur at the
Speaker 6: behest of the putative leaders. Joe Biden is not Joe
Speaker 6: Biden's boss. And the list goes on that there is
Speaker 6: some kind of a ruling elite. Is at the Rothschilds,
Speaker 6: Is it the Rockefellers? Is it that we do? But
Speaker 6: what we do know is that the African National Congress
Speaker 6: is a communist party. We know that communism is derived
Speaker 6: from tumundism. This is not you. Nobody knows it because
Speaker 6: nobody likes to read.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of the listeners know it right.
Speaker 6: Cole Marx wrote extensively about how the first role of
Speaker 6: communism was to destroy I'm referring now specifically to his
Speaker 6: writings and the fourth critique of Hegel on this subject,
Speaker 6: how the first and primary role of communism is to
Speaker 6: destroy God in his manifestation on earth, which is the
Speaker 6: Christian family. And so we know these things. So I
Speaker 6: believe that the African National Congress is a tool for
Speaker 6: destroying the very very conservative, very Christian African abour falk.
Speaker 6: But I believe that they've been chosen suitably. You know.
Speaker 6: It's one thing for me to choose as my chosen
Speaker 6: instrument to saw a piece of wood a teaspoon. It's
Speaker 6: another thing for me to choose, for the purposes of
Speaker 6: sawing a piece of wood a wood saw, or even
Speaker 6: a hack saw, or even for that matter, a chisel
Speaker 6: to do some kind of piercing, penetrating a job on
Speaker 6: a piece of wood. I would say to you that
Speaker 6: the African National Congress, by virtue of its inherent antipathy
Speaker 6: for labor, for industriousness, for productivity, for study, as the
Speaker 6: great South African super liberal scholar Jimmy. What is his name? Oh,
Speaker 6: dear me, Simon. I'll think of his name in a minute.
Speaker 6: As he said in a speech a few years ago,
Speaker 6: the reality is that there is an absence of a
Speaker 6: culture of learning in in black South Africa. He was
Speaker 6: just saying it like it is, even though he's a
Speaker 6: super liberal guy, and somebody had to sooner or later.
Speaker 6: So I think that what global communism did, what the
Speaker 6: elites did, what it's the rothschilds or that is say
Speaker 6: in South Africa, we want these people to be destroyed
Speaker 6: by those people. How do we go about it? And
Speaker 6: somebody said, well, let's play to the strengths of those people.
Speaker 6: We know that they that they hate industriousness and productivity,
Speaker 6: We know that they are extremely vindictive people. Let us
Speaker 6: allow them to use those particular qualities to employ those
Speaker 6: particular qualities. If they were a hammer, let them hammer
Speaker 6: rather than saw, or rather than use them to eat yogurt,
Speaker 6: lit them hemma the hammers. And I think that's what
Speaker 6: we're seeing playing out in South Africa now, as so
Speaker 6: much collapses. Education system collapsed, railway system absolutely collapsed, electricity
Speaker 6: system completely collapsed, the government's administration system very much collapsed.
Speaker 6: We've seen play out the natural extension of exploiting the
Speaker 6: inherent qualities of the African National Congress as a communist
Speaker 6: party in taking over the New South Africa or in creating,
Speaker 6: if you like, the New South Africa Rainbow Nation.
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Speaker 1: That's join crowdhealth dot com code pete q. A couple
Speaker 1: of years ago, in twenty twenty one, video was coming
Speaker 1: out of South Africa showing incredible violence shopping malls being destroyed, well, gunfights,
Speaker 1: I mean firefights in the streets. What happened then? Can
Speaker 1: what can you describe it as happening?
Speaker 4: Then?
Speaker 2: What caused that?
Speaker 6: Well? I should first point out to you that it
Speaker 6: has since come out in numerous liberal media that those
Speaker 6: events are regarded by those in the know as a
Speaker 6: rehearsal for revolution, and people who are interested in the
Speaker 6: subject are welcome to look up the following search term
Speaker 6: as one of me any examples the Daily Maverick July
Speaker 6: Riots twenty twenty one rehearsal for revolution. There's a numerous
Speaker 6: special reports on the subject, tremendous evidence for the fact
Speaker 6: that it was really, when all is said and done,
Speaker 6: a covert rehearsal for a later revolution. But ostensibly, on
Speaker 6: the surface of it, it was a matter of the
Speaker 6: former president Jacob Zumer having to go to jail, and
Speaker 6: him refusing to go to jail, and him being kind
Speaker 6: of semi forced, and eventually in going to jail, it
Speaker 6: caused his supporters to go berserk, and for I think
Speaker 6: it was eight nights. I think it was the sixth
Speaker 6: to the fourteenth, if I remember correctly, eighth to the sixteenth. Anyway,
Speaker 6: I believe it was eight nights of rioting occurred. You know,
Speaker 6: people Zulu people were very unhappy that the first Zulu
Speaker 6: president of South Africa, the Zulus being well being the
Speaker 6: largest ethnic group of South Africa, very unhappy that the
Speaker 6: poor man had to go to jail for his many
Speaker 6: and many, many, many and various crimes ranging from admitted
Speaker 6: rape to well everything else under the sun. So they
Speaker 6: went on this rampage and they looted and pillaged and
Speaker 6: marauded and burned and so on and destroyed what in
Speaker 6: South African terms. I'm not going to even attempt to convert,
Speaker 6: you know, give an exchange rate, because it's misleading. If
Speaker 6: I said it was ten billion dollars worth of damaged,
Speaker 6: people would sy, oh, it's only ten billion dollars. In
Speaker 6: South Africa terms, that means everything. So it just destroyed
Speaker 6: a lot, and there was a lot of violence not
Speaker 6: only that took place that I'm describing to, but that
Speaker 6: came out of it. So what happened was that the
Speaker 6: black people went on the rampage and the Indian We
Speaker 6: have the largest population of Indians from India outside of
Speaker 6: India in the world. When I say we that province
Speaker 6: the surrounds. It's where I grew up. So I grew
Speaker 6: up knowing and seeing, regardless of aparte, just who was there,
Speaker 6: who was in the street, who was whatever behind the counter.
Speaker 6: Far more Indian people than black people there. The Indian
Speaker 6: people outnumber the Zulu people the black people in that
Speaker 6: immediate vicinity around those cities. And as the riots grew
Speaker 6: or picked up pace, the perpetrators became emboldened and they
Speaker 6: began to enter white and Indian neighborhoods. So the neighborhoods
Speaker 6: from apart eight days have obviously changed tremendously. It's nothing
Speaker 6: like it used to be, but you still have these
Speaker 6: kind of you know, this is traditionally where the Indian
Speaker 6: people were obliged by law to live. That's traditionally where
Speaker 6: the black people were obliged by law to live. That
Speaker 6: is traditionally where the colored people, that is to say,
Speaker 6: the mixed race people who insist upon being called colored,
Speaker 6: where the colored people lived, and the whites and so on,
Speaker 6: and so these Zulus began to enter these areas, and
Speaker 6: the whites and the Indians began to form sort of
Speaker 6: vigilante defense committees, and they killed many, many, many, many
Speaker 6: many black people, which upset the African National Congress no end.
Speaker 6: The reasoning of the African National Congress was, if a
Speaker 6: thousand people approach your suburb to rape your wife into
Speaker 6: to plunder your house, your first resort should not be
Speaker 6: to shoot them dead. It should be to give way.
Speaker 6: And who knows what, I don't think you know, anybody
Speaker 6: in the African National Congress has ever explained exactly how
Speaker 6: the matter should have been handled, but it has since
Speaker 6: become a matter of huge racial tension, enormous racial tension
Speaker 6: between particularly the Indians and the black people, to a
Speaker 6: lesser extent, the whites and the Blacks, most particularly the Indians.
Speaker 6: There's a level of hatred that now exists between those
Speaker 6: two racial population groups. Yes, but we're talking at more
Speaker 6: localized levels. So let's call them those two racial communities
Speaker 6: that has historically probably never existed because the Indians stood
Speaker 6: up for themselves and said this far and no further,
Speaker 6: you're not coming over my garden wall. Excuse my language.
Speaker 6: I beg your pardon, Pete.
Speaker 1: So when we were talking on the phone the other day,
Speaker 1: you made it very clear to me that with everything
Speaker 1: you had described in the beginning, why don't you give here,
Speaker 1: let's do this. Why don't you give an overview of
Speaker 1: what you were talking about as far as the Geneva convention,
Speaker 1: and it's basically its preparation for what you.
Speaker 2: Know is going to happen in the future.
Speaker 6: Firstly, let me quickly say that the elderly liberal and
Speaker 6: very famous Oxford Oxford University scholar to whom I was
Speaker 6: referring earlier, whom I was quoting earlier, is our W. R. W. Johnson. Yes,
Speaker 6: Following World War Two, the Geneva or not the a
Speaker 6: Geneva Conventions. There are a number of Geneva Conventions that
Speaker 6: extend back to the eighteen hundreds, but the most recent
Speaker 6: iteration of the Geneva Conventions was drafted to govern the
Speaker 6: prosecution of war. So the nations of the world came
Speaker 6: together and said, look, we had the First World War,
Speaker 6: and there was that chlorine gas must have gased that
Speaker 6: wasn't very nice. And now we've had the Second World
Speaker 6: War in Collie g some of the things that happened
Speaker 6: a little bit on the nasty side. Perhaps we should
Speaker 6: write some treaties, some laws to ensure that we're not
Speaker 6: quite so horrible to one another next time round. And
Speaker 6: so in nineteen forty nine the Geneva Conventions of nineteen
Speaker 6: forty nine were ratified. Fast forward twenty eight years, and
Speaker 6: by nineteen seventy seven it had been recognized that there
Speaker 6: were a number of meaningful loopholes in the Geneva Conventions
Speaker 6: of nineteen forty nine, So the Protocols Additional Protocols one, two,
Speaker 6: and three are known as the Protocols Additional of nineteen
Speaker 6: seventy seven to the Geneva Conventions of nineteen forty nine
Speaker 6: were ratified, and those three protocols pay attention particularly to
Speaker 6: the circumstances of civilians in conflict. So they addressed many, many, many,
Speaker 6: many many features of what parties what they call parties
Speaker 6: to a conflict may and may not do, with particular
Speaker 6: reference to civilians, to non parties to a conflict. And
Speaker 6: we sat Lunders have constituted ourselves under those provisions of
Speaker 6: the protocols. Additional to the Geneva Conventions, one of the
Speaker 6: things that they provide for is for identifiable ethnic groups. Now,
Speaker 6: identifiable ethnic group doesn't mean that, you know, if I'm
Speaker 6: if I'm black, or if I'm very black, or if
Speaker 6: I'm not, if I'm like black, or whatever it means.
Speaker 6: It means more than just that. It means language and
Speaker 6: culture and religion and profession. What do I profess to be.
Speaker 6: I'm a Muslim speak Bosnian with which is a South
Speaker 6: Slavic language, and I say I'm a Bosnian because of art.
Speaker 6: That's who I am. That's the identification of me. Identifiable
Speaker 6: ethnic groups are permitted to pursue the preparations for the
Speaker 6: erection of national emergency plans or emergency plans for their
Speaker 6: people in the event I'm just going to shift a
Speaker 6: lamp that's burning my eyes in the event of international
Speaker 6: and non international conflict. But there's one strict proviso, and
Speaker 6: that is that those parties have to become or those actors,
Speaker 6: let's say those actors have to become non parties to
Speaker 6: a conflict. So if there was a civil war in
Speaker 6: South Africa, civil war broke out tomorrow, Sat London's would say,
Speaker 6: we don't want to be a part of this. Otherwise
Speaker 6: we're going to lose the iegis the protection of international
Speaker 6: law and heard a nice national emergency plan for ourselves.
Speaker 6: So we're going to withdraw from the conflict and establish
Speaker 6: a safe zone, erect a perimeter, a defended a defensible
Speaker 6: and defended perimeter that's perfectly legal, but not be proactive,
Speaker 6: not be a protagonist in the conflict whatsoever. We will
Speaker 6: merely defend this perimeter and as I've already said, become
Speaker 6: a non party to the conflict. And that's the gist
Speaker 6: of it. The Geneva Conventions, the protocols additional the provisions
Speaker 6: for identifiable ethnic groups to prepare for a conflict, and
Speaker 6: then how they must act. What is the nature of
Speaker 6: that protection? What does it mean? It means that I
Speaker 6: must withdraw from the conflict, I must be a non
Speaker 6: party to it. But it also means that I can
Speaker 6: establish a safe area and defend it.
Speaker 1: Simon, when we talked the other day, you you made
Speaker 1: it very clear that you you didn't have a white
Speaker 1: pill for me. You you made it clear that you
Speaker 1: think that what's going to happen in South Africa is
Speaker 1: going to be the absolute worst possible thing that could happen,
Speaker 1: and that is civil war, violence and murder, everything that
Speaker 1: comes along with it. So why don't you tell everybody
Speaker 1: why you think there is no there's no saving it,
Speaker 1: there's no getting past that.
Speaker 6: Well, at the risk of answering, you in an evasive man,
Speaker 6: I don't think that Demons is going to be evasive
Speaker 6: in the end at all. But I'll begin by saying this.
Speaker 6: When I told you this to in twenty nineteen, I
Speaker 6: was the main speaker at the annual party of a
Speaker 6: prominent organization in the USA, the annual Birthday party, and
Speaker 6: I fell very ill the day before, and I was
Speaker 6: so ill that I couldn't read the speech I'd written,
Speaker 6: couldn't focus my eyes on the page. And so I
Speaker 6: walked up on stage and I said, well, here's my speech,
Speaker 6: and I showed to them, all written out in Longhand
Speaker 6: as I like to do, and I said, but I
Speaker 6: can't focus my eyes on the page. Hang over. Sorry,
Speaker 6: I'm just going to stand here. I'm going to ramble
Speaker 6: and waffle for a bit and then I'm going to
Speaker 6: have to leave. I'm sorry, I'm very very ill. And
Speaker 6: so I just started talking about this, that and the
Speaker 6: next thing, and at some point I said, what is
Speaker 6: clear is that violence, widespread violence, will break out in
Speaker 6: the USA in the very near future. After the speech,
Speaker 6: I was invited up to somebody's hotel room. The event
Speaker 6: took place in a hotel, and this very distinguished gentleman said,
Speaker 6: why don't you come up and have a chat with
Speaker 6: me and my friend. I said, oh, what a privilege,
Speaker 6: what a lovely invitation. And I went up and here
Speaker 6: and his friend were chatting, and I sat and listened
Speaker 6: to their wise words. And at some point the friend,
Speaker 6: again a very very distinguished gentleman, looked up at me
Speaker 6: from under his eyebrows like that and told me how
Speaker 6: he was, how offended he was, or how much he
Speaker 6: disagreed anyway with my allegation that there would be widespread
Speaker 6: violence in the USA in the foreseeable future. Three months later,
Speaker 6: the Portland Riots broke out. Five people from this audience.
Speaker 6: After the Portland Riot broke out three months later, they
Speaker 6: sent me messages saying, how my name is fred I
Speaker 6: was in the audience, blah blah blah. I got your
Speaker 6: number from Joe Hope. You don't mind me sending you
Speaker 6: a message? How did you know? We're not gurus, we
Speaker 6: don't have some special gift pet But we've kind of
Speaker 6: watched this movie before, and we know how society breaks up.
Speaker 6: We know how society fractures, how schisms form overnight in society.
Speaker 6: And it was apparent to me, having spent a lot
Speaker 6: of time in the USA in twenty seventeen, eighteen, and nineteen,
Speaker 6: that there were certain levels of tension that were absolutely irremediable,
Speaker 6: They couldn't be remedied. And they were at one another.
Speaker 6: They were at one another in the newspapers, and they
Speaker 6: were at one another. Given a speech a few months
Speaker 6: before in Tennessee at which there were three hundred protesters
Speaker 6: going berserk, all these best swimming I'm sorry to say.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, God made them far be it
Speaker 6: from me, but not only a beast generally ugly with
Speaker 6: purple hair and rings through their eyeballs and who knows
Speaker 6: where else screamy shut here. And one guy standing next
Speaker 6: to me there was a police court, a huge police
Speaker 6: cordon that one guy standing next to me said, you
Speaker 6: know that they're here for you, don't you know? I
Speaker 6: looked at it in astonishment. You're joking, said yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: he said. The other speakers, you know they wouldn't be here.
Speaker 6: The point is that we when there's that level of hatred,
Speaker 6: the three hundred people come to a hotel to throw
Speaker 6: bricks and glass bottles and two wallow in their filthy
Speaker 6: obesity and before your very eyes to prove a point.
Speaker 6: It's it's difficult to turn the clock backwards. It's difficult
Speaker 6: for that thing to kind of go away. What tends
Speaker 6: to happen is that it matures and festers and eventually
Speaker 6: begins to suppurate, like an over developed boil or not
Speaker 6: to be common, but it's some kind of pimple that
Speaker 6: hasn't been attended as it should have been. It doesn't
Speaker 6: just magically disappear, and we believe the same of South Africa.
Speaker 6: We believe that the degree and the extent of the
Speaker 6: crisis in South Africa now is such that it can't
Speaker 6: be fixed. In twenty sixteen, Tuesday, Tuesday, the sixth of November,
Speaker 6: if I'm not mistaken, maybe no, maybe perhaps it was
Speaker 6: a Thursday. I'll forget. The leader of our Marxist political party,
Speaker 6: Julius Malema, famously said I'm not calling for the thought
Speaker 6: of all whites, at least for now. I think that
Speaker 6: was verbate and what he said, and he's repeated that
Speaker 6: many times since. And at the thirteenth birthday celebrations of
Speaker 6: that political party, the Economic Freedom Fighters this year in
Speaker 6: the famous FNB Stadium in Soweto, Johannesburg, before one hundred
Speaker 6: thousand people. And there's a reason why I, as a
Speaker 6: longtime projects manager for very huge events, can tell you
Speaker 6: with some authority that the number was almost certainly one
Speaker 6: hundred thousand people. Before one hundred thousand people sang the
Speaker 6: song kill the Farmer, Kill the Boer for the umpteenth time.
Speaker 6: It's highly provocative and on the second of June of
Speaker 6: this year, our President, while speaking as the guest of
Speaker 6: honor or the main speaker at the annual conference of
Speaker 6: the African National Congress Youth League said, it may be
Speaker 6: that in the near future we are not able to
Speaker 6: hold on to power, and we will require you to
Speaker 6: become the militant youth, such as the Youth League, the
Speaker 6: youth of the African National Congress of the fifties, sixty
Speaker 6: seventies and eighties. And he went on, and what he
Speaker 6: was saying is that our polling figures for next year's elections,
Speaker 6: there will be an election on roughly the twenty seventh
Speaker 6: of April next year. The precise date is not yet appointed.
Speaker 6: If we've what he was alluding to is the fact
Speaker 6: that in recent months has come out at the ANC
Speaker 6: for the first time has ever has significantly less than
Speaker 6: fifty percent of the vote, perhaps as low as thirty five,
Speaker 6: thirty six percent or will get You're saying that if
Speaker 6: we do not win the elections, we're going to have
Speaker 6: a proper revolution his words, not mine. In other words,
Speaker 6: a real, actual, violent Marxist Leninist revolution. And we sat
Speaker 6: Landers believe that that has been that writing has been
Speaker 6: on the wall since forever. The fact that the mainstream
Speaker 6: media can only see it now and report it now.
Speaker 6: And the fact that academia is only now obliged by
Speaker 6: the latency of it, the conspicuousness of it, the undeniability
Speaker 6: of it. To acknowledge it doesn't mean that it hasn't
Speaker 6: been there. It has been there since forever.
Speaker 7: It was always just a matter of time before the
Speaker 7: New South Africa Rainbow Nation.
Speaker 6: Became very much less tenable than the world believed and
Speaker 6: proclaimed it to be in the late eighties, the early
Speaker 6: nineties and nineteen ninety four. In the late eighties and
Speaker 6: early nineties, you will remember all across the world there
Speaker 6: was a chorus of praise for how wonderful Nelson Mandela was,
Speaker 6: and how great an anc government would be, and how
Speaker 6: the wind would blow better, and our hair would blow
Speaker 6: better in the wind, and the daisies would smell nicer,
Speaker 6: and the money would grow on the trees more abundantly,
Speaker 6: and these, you know, hopelessly unrealistic superlatives that were used
Speaker 6: to describe the idol, the idyll that would be the
Speaker 6: new South Africa Rainbow Nation. And for a long time,
Speaker 6: people like myself and our leader, mister Gustaf Mala, the
Speaker 6: founder of our organization. I'm merely his employee have said,
Speaker 6: you know what, this is not right, is not right.
Speaker 6: You know, the murder rate in the USA is roughly
Speaker 6: five per one hundred thousand per year. Five people of
Speaker 6: every one hundred thousand are killed in intentional homicide, as
Speaker 6: the United Nations calls it. Every year. In South Africa
Speaker 6: it's thirty nine thirty eight point something. The USA is
Speaker 6: supposed to be this gun mad, blood lusting society. You
Speaker 6: guys haven't a clue. In fact, you don't try very
Speaker 6: hard at all. Your desire to butcher somebody and drink
Speaker 6: their blood, your desire to cut open a woman, or
Speaker 6: to murder a child, or to savagely slaughter an elderly person,
Speaker 6: is I would say, decidedly tepid. You are lukewarm, Pete.
Speaker 6: And it seems to me that you're given a great
Speaker 6: deal of credit for something that you're not actually doing,
Speaker 6: and you should perhaps make a little bit more effort
Speaker 6: if you wish to deserve the credit that you have
Speaker 6: in the whole effing world for being the most bloodthirsty
Speaker 6: people ever born. Going by the amount of attention that
Speaker 6: is given to the USA and every shooting and every
Speaker 6: murder and every FBI file and the top ten wanted
Speaker 6: and all these stupid programs that you thrust down the
Speaker 6: throats of national broadcasters all around the entire world that
Speaker 6: we all have to watch your crap. You should put
Speaker 6: in a little bit more effort, because it seems that
Speaker 6: your your claim to fame is very much exaggerated. On
Speaker 6: the other hand, know a thing or two about murder, rape,
Speaker 6: the butchery of children and so on. And you know,
Speaker 6: I'm being facetious and sarcastic now, and it's not very
Speaker 6: classy of me, but that's that's the way that it is.
Speaker 6: You know, we hear people waffling on and on about
Speaker 6: the ANC and I mean a bigger part of the
Speaker 6: USA and the Second Amendment and all of this crap,
Speaker 6: and we think to ourselves, you have in a flipping clue,
Speaker 6: come come to the country that you insisted was going
Speaker 6: to be the bit because it was principally American politicians
Speaker 6: above all others, and American media that really like feeding
Speaker 6: a goose, force feeding a goose to make pate fois gras,
Speaker 6: that force fed the world the narrative of the unimpeachable
Speaker 6: and impeccable nature of the of the African National Congress
Speaker 6: and the fourth coming New South Africa Rainbow Nation, New
Speaker 6: South Africa Rainbow Nation years. So come and have a look,
Speaker 6: and then you tell.
Speaker 1: Me, well, you had mentioned that you believe that the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one violence which took it's recorded three hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty four deaths in those riots. Our riots in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty took ten percent of that. I would say
Speaker 1: that if they are gearing up for that kind of
Speaker 1: revolution in this country, we're probably looking for something similar
Speaker 1: to what you experienced in twenty twenty one before the
Speaker 1: whole big thing kicks off.
Speaker 2: If they try.
Speaker 1: I mean it's a little harder. I think it's a
Speaker 1: little harder here because the country's so big and it's
Speaker 1: so spread out. We have federalism, a lot of states
Speaker 1: have different laws things like that. But it does look
Speaker 1: like that there could be full sections of the country
Speaker 1: that could fall into exactly what you what you described,
Speaker 1: and even worse than what you're expecting in the future.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's no question about it. The you can't reconcile
Speaker 6: the United States of America to itself. The inherent contradictions
Speaker 6: are just so great that there's no fixing what you
Speaker 6: have now, Pete. I'm not saying that the United States
Speaker 6: is going to evolve into civil war the day after tomorrow.
Speaker 6: And even if I was saying that, I would I
Speaker 6: would say the United States is going to devolve into
Speaker 6: civil war the day after tomorrow. But I don't think
Speaker 6: it's going to be bad, you know. So I'm not
Speaker 6: saying that it's going to be it's going to happen soon,
Speaker 6: or even that it's going to be the worst of
Speaker 6: the worst of the worst. But I am saying that
Speaker 6: as time goes by, this crisis of of self hatred,
Speaker 6: for want of a better expression, I'll try to think
Speaker 6: of a better phrase, shall become more and more and
Speaker 6: more intractable. It will become more and more difficult to
Speaker 6: turn the clock back to the day before the Roe
Speaker 6: versus Wade decision in nineteen seventy two. It will become
Speaker 6: more and more difficult to turn the clock back to
Speaker 6: the day before the series of legal decisions in US
Speaker 6: courts of the late eighties and early nineties that have
Speaker 6: set the precedent for the divorce laws that obtain in
Speaker 6: the USA. Now, it will become more and more difficult
Speaker 6: for you to turn the clock back to the days
Speaker 6: before blatant lesbian, gay whatever you lg X y Z,
Speaker 6: whatever it is called being almost or in some cases
Speaker 6: foisted upon children. That is not going to happen. Real life,
Speaker 6: in the real world doesn't work like that. So the
Speaker 6: likelihood is that this schism will continue, will continue to rupture,
Speaker 6: and in so doing rupture more severely, and eventually it's
Speaker 6: going to lead to a major event in the USA.
Speaker 6: And I'm not qualified. I'm not clairvoyant, you know, so
Speaker 6: I'm not qualified to say exactly what is but what
Speaker 6: it is. But let me put it to you this way.
Speaker 6: The US national debt seven years ago two thousand and
Speaker 6: twenty three minus seven will be two sixteen. The US
Speaker 6: national debt was nineteen point eight trillion dollars, so between
Speaker 6: seventeen seventy six. I know that Americans celebrate the fourth
Speaker 6: of July, but the last signatory, the last signatures to
Speaker 6: the document were in October of seventeen seventy six, So
Speaker 6: from October seventeen seventy six, when the Republic was properly implemented,
Speaker 6: until two thy and sixteen, through World wars, through civil wars,
Speaker 6: through everything, the USA was only able to rack up
Speaker 6: a debt of nineteen point of nineteen point eight trillion
Speaker 6: dollars in seven years. You've taken that to over thirty
Speaker 6: three trillion dollars, So fourteen trillion dollars versus nineteen trillion
Speaker 6: dollars in seven years versus seventeen seventy six to twenty four,
Speaker 6: so two hundred and twenty four and sixteen would be
Speaker 6: two hundred and forty years. Two hundred and forty years
Speaker 6: versus beat. It's bad and Americans can't see it. And
Speaker 6: I suspect that's what's going to happen, is that somebody
Speaker 6: of a conservative bent is going to say that the
Speaker 6: madness that reigns in the White House now, or in
Speaker 6: US government, or in the Treasury, if you like, or
Speaker 6: in the Federal Reserve, or in whatever point your finger
Speaker 6: at whichever blemish, whichever flaw on me appeals to you
Speaker 6: the most. If I'm the body corporate of the United
Speaker 6: States of America, you know what thing do you hate
Speaker 6: the most? Point your finger that that is enough to
Speaker 6: justify something absolutely radical and drastic. I'm not saying that
Speaker 6: there's going to be a coup uitar. I am saying
Speaker 6: that at some point, somebody's going to say, well, it's
Speaker 6: now been you know, since twenty sixteen. It's now been
Speaker 6: let's say, not seven years, it's ten years. And the
Speaker 6: debt has gone from nineteen point eight trillion dollars to
Speaker 6: sixty four whatever number. You know. Now a coup is warranted.
Speaker 6: Now the setting off of a bomb is warranted. Now
Speaker 6: we can get drastic and radical. What I'm saying without
Speaker 6: trying to be overly specific, because I don't I'm not clever.
Speaker 6: Where is that things can't deteriorate this drastically, this radically
Speaker 6: as they have, as we've all witnessed over recent years,
Speaker 6: without sooner or later there being some kind of a
Speaker 6: huge reaction, some real pushback, And because the positions are
Speaker 6: so irreconciled, it's going to precipitate a terminal crisis. So
Speaker 6: let's say my wife and I I'm not married. I am,
Speaker 6: to my eternal regret, a bachelor. But let's say I
Speaker 6: was married and my wife and I had an ongoing dispute,
Speaker 6: and let's say I was goading her, antagonizing her, giving
Speaker 6: her a hard time, and eventually one day she turns
Speaker 6: around and she does something all right, that's one thing.
Speaker 6: She loses her temperature, gets it. But just imagine that
Speaker 6: I'd done something that had betrayed her trust forever and
Speaker 6: ever and ever and ever, and in that context I
Speaker 6: was needling her and she retaliated. She would probably retaliate
Speaker 6: with her and maybe stab me or cyanide or you know,
Speaker 6: in my sleep, shoot me or something. You know, what
Speaker 6: I'm saying is that it's one thing to have a schism.
Speaker 6: It's another thing when the two parties cannot in any
Speaker 6: way be reconciled. Because you cannot reconcile LGBTQ two core
Speaker 6: America to the core values of America. You cannot reconcile
Speaker 6: a thirty three trillion dollar debt to the traditional pecuniousness
Speaker 6: that the traditional economical very wise with money nature of
Speaker 6: US government. You cannot reconcile. The parties are just so
Speaker 6: far out from one another that when they do clash,
Speaker 6: they are going to clash in a terminal manner. And
Speaker 6: I think that that's now absolutely inevitable. You can't fix
Speaker 6: you can't fix the stolen election of twenty twenty. You
Speaker 6: can't fix these the biolabs in Eastern Ukraine. You can't
Speaker 6: undo that. You can't undo COVID and the clot shots
Speaker 6: and the adversary actions. You can't undo the assault on God.
Speaker 6: You can't undo. Would you believe me? I read a figure?
Speaker 6: In fact, I went through the table of figures, the
Speaker 6: official figures today before this interview, just for no particular reason.
Speaker 6: Would you believe me if I told you that the
Speaker 6: number of immigrants illegal immigrants only to the USA in
Speaker 6: this year alone is greater than the populations of thirty
Speaker 6: nine of the fifty states of the USA. It's unfixable, Pete.
Speaker 6: Don't fix that. You don't get to fix that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, tell everybody where they can, remind everybody where
Speaker 1: they can find more about your work and whatever what
Speaker 1: anybody can do.
Speaker 6: Oh, thank you very much, Pete, thank you for having
Speaker 6: sat Lunders on your show. We appreciate the opportunity. I
Speaker 6: hope that the video is well watched. Please send me
Speaker 6: a link and I'll distribute it in South Africa. Although
Speaker 6: I should forewarn you that the overwhelming majority of our
Speaker 6: people do not speak English, well it's not their first language,
Speaker 6: so that the audience is not big for English products.
Speaker 6: People are welcome to visit satlanders dot org. That's s
Speaker 6: U I d Landers dot org and if they would
Speaker 6: like to make a contribution, if they'd like to assist
Speaker 6: us in the work that we're doing. We are really
Speaker 6: standing in the breach. We are boxing above our wait.
Speaker 6: We are standard bearers worldwide for the conservative Caucasian Christian cause.
Speaker 6: You can look up the speech that I gave in
Speaker 6: the European Parliament and many other many, many hundreds of
Speaker 6: other interviews Alex Jones, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, BBC,
Speaker 6: CNN Russia Today to see the work that we're doing.
Speaker 6: And if that impresses you, please be so kind as
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Speaker 6: enter there and go to the bottom of the page.
Speaker 6: You'll see where you can make a donation. Thank you
Speaker 6: very much for watching this video. I hope that I
Speaker 6: wasn't too long winded, and I hope that you thoroughly
Speaker 6: enjoyed it. And thank you too, Pete very.
Speaker 1: Much, no prom ad all. Thank you, and I'll make
Speaker 1: sure to link to that in the show notes so
Speaker 1: people can get to it very easily.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Samon, Thank you