WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:10.599 You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen? 2 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:28.600 What I Welcome back to the Occult Rejects. Today's guest 3 00:00:28.679 --> 00:00:32.799 is Eliza and she is a tower reader, tarrant teacher, astrologer, 4 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.840 and lifelong writer, and graduate of the Iowa Writers Workshop. 5 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:40.479 She's the author of the brand new Tarot of the Unconscious, 6 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.119 Uncovering the hidden link between psychoanalysis and the Cards. Her 7 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:48.000 previous two books are The Little Book of Saturn and 8 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:51.960 A Mystical Practical Guide to Magic. She's a psychoanalysis in 9 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:54.880 training in New York City. You can find her at 10 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:59.399 Elisa Einhorn dot com or Elisa of Brooklyn on Instagram. 11 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.840 And yes, she does do readings and she's also available 12 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:08.120 for in person psychoanalytic treatment. Now, before we introduce her, 13 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.079 let me introduce Judith. What is going on? Judith? 14 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.359 I'm fine. Thank you for having me today, Nick, Alisa, 15 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.680 I look forward to our discussion and for everybody else. 16 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:22.400 You can find me on spreaker x I'm sorry, yes 17 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:25.480 X and YouTube as the Loom awesome. 18 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:27.519 Thank you so much for making you. Judith, I really 19 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:31.480 appreciate it. And Alisa, please let everybody know where they 20 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:32.959 can I mean I already kind of mentioned where they 21 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:34.959 can find you. There's anything else you'd like to promote 22 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:37.000 or say, or you know, please go ahead. 23 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:40.319 Well, I'm happy to be here, first of all, and 24 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:43.840 I'm happy to be a reject today with you, with you, 25 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:48.640 it's fun. Anything I want to promote? Huh? Well, I 26 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:51.760 do have a new book that's coming out. It's supposed 27 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:56.280 to be June first, if everything stays in alignment, June first, 28 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.840 is the data comes out? Oh, you mentioned the title 29 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:04.560 I wrote, Taro of the Unconscious. Yeah, yes, oh, what 30 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:06.159 a exciting thing. 31 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:07.519 It hasn't come out yet. 32 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:11.599 No, so it's pre ordered time. Pre orders make the 33 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:16.319 publisher so happy. So you could make a small, smallish 34 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:20.199 independent occult publisher very very happy if the book interests 35 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:23.759 you by clicking on that buy now link wherever you 36 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:24.120 see it. 37 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:26.639 Oh that's great. Yeah. You know what's funny. When I 38 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:28.520 received the book, I just assume that they're out and 39 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:30.319 I forget that they can send them to me early. 40 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:32.639 So yeah, I'm glad you got it. 41 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:41.639 Yeah yeah, yeah weiser, yep, yeah nice? Oh yeah, was 42 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:43.080 there any I think I might have interrupted you? Is 43 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:45.360 there anything else you wanted to say? I'm so sorry. 44 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:48.479 That's now. That's that's the main thing. Also, I think 45 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:52.840 of new and new and exciting promotions. 46 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:55.439 Real quick, just because I'm interested that. I just thought 47 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:57.560 of it. Now, have you been in New York your 48 00:02:57.560 --> 00:02:58.039 whole life? 49 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:02.039 No, I'm actually not from here, Although I get accused 50 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:06.719 of it a lot. People call me a New Yorker. No, 51 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:12.439 I've been in New York since two thousand and one. 52 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:14.439 I was here for nine to elevens. I was here 53 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:21.000 that January. Yeah, and then I've been here mostly since 54 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:21.639 that time. 55 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:25.520 Very nice, Okay, No, I was just wondering because all 56 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:29.000 three of us are from New York. But that's cool. Cool? 57 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:31.719 Am I am? I a real New Yorker after being 58 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:33.000 here for that long? Does it count? 59 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:33.960 I don't know. 60 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:35.759 Yes, Yeah it does. 61 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:37.400 Judith says, yes. 62 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:40.439 I could have no idea. I think it sounds long enough. 63 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:45.199 It sounds long enough to me. But I guess how 64 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:47.039 long does it take for somebody to switch over? Because 65 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:49.520 I've been in North Carolina for two years? I got 66 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:51.039 a couple more years, I guess before I'm a North 67 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:51.719 Caro not with. 68 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:59.000 Your accent, for reverse doesn't work in New York. You're 69 00:03:59.000 --> 00:03:59.960 always in New Yorker. 70 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:02.400 I think that's true. 71 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.960 So at Lisa, like I asked everybody on the show 72 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:10.759 pretty much, how did you find yourself? Like, how did 73 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:14.599 you end up getting into taro in astrology? How did 74 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:14.960 that happen? 75 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:18.319 It was a twist of fate, you know, I remember 76 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:23.000 it well. Actually, do you remember AOL? I was asking 77 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:26.240 you if you're young enough to remember AOL and those 78 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:30.480 discs and the dial up. So this was then in 79 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:35.399 the those early days of the Internet. Yeah, I had 80 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:38.680 a friend who was into astrology. I didn't know anything 81 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:41.720 about it. There wasn't that much astrology on the web. 82 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:44.199 It was so new. And then by chance, if you 83 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:47.600 believe in chance, I wound up on something like I 84 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:50.000 was about to say, I Googled. I didn't Google because 85 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.879 Google didn't exist, but I what was it? Asked Jeeves? 86 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:56.399 Do you remember? Asked? This is like, sorry, this is 87 00:04:56.439 --> 00:05:02.879 gen X nostalgia times, so, you know, very old search engine. 88 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:06.480 I look up my son's sign, and you know what 89 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:08.600 came up. I think her name is Susan Miller. She's 90 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.480 probably still around, like this big astrologer, Susan Miller. She 91 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:14.199 has this cy called astrology Zone. And I read my 92 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.959 horoscope and it was so accurate. And this was back 93 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.759 in what was this two thousand, I think probably two 94 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:25.800 thousand and three, something like that, and I just I 95 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:30.000 couldn't believe it. And then again I went on a 96 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:33.000 search and internet search and I found it in person class. 97 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:37.399 So I went for years to an astrology class every 98 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:41.680 week in person, learned astrology. And then he also that 99 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:44.439 teacher also taught us a little tarot. So that was 100 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:46.480 the beginning. And I never thought I would do it 101 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.160 for a living. I just thought it was cool. It 102 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:53.480 was so accurate. I started getting readings from him. I 103 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:56.920 just I felt it explained me in my life so 104 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:02.600 succinctly accurately. And then that that was it. I was 105 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:05.040 kidnapped by by the occult. 106 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.639 That is that is really like that's amazing, how like 107 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:12.279 you even your experience with like getting interested in it 108 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:14.360 and then being able to find an in person class 109 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:17.839 right away, Like that's a great experience. Like you didn't 110 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:20.439 have to go like I guess shift through the garbage 111 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:21.040 on the internet. 112 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:26.839 You know exactly, there was no garbage or different garbage. 113 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:31.240 Yeah, back then you didn't have to go through the internet. 114 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:33.639 You had that magazine called Apex. 115 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:37.519 Oh, I didn't know that was that local or that 116 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:38.800 was in New York. 117 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:41.319 You would, you would get it in Now they use 118 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:45.759 it as trash bins, those yellow bins with the free 119 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:50.519 magazines on every court, and then you just grab one 120 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:53.360 of them. And they had every Every different class you 121 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:55.639 wanted to go to was in there. And I think 122 00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:00.160 they did have astrology classes in there as well, in 123 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:01.959 there probably. 124 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:05.560 And crystal skulls. I remember this place that I used 125 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:08.000 to go to. They would host all kinds of things. 126 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:11.000 It's not it's not there anymore, but there was astrology, 127 00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:13.959 you know, astrology and reiki and tarot and all kinds 128 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:17.920 of New agey stuff. But my teacher was a high magician. 129 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.639 You had mentioned off air, Judith that you were, well, 130 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:22.160 I don't know if I should be allowed. 131 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:24.959 To say this. No, I do say it all the time. 132 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:29.079 I'm into high magic, Okay. I do consider myself a 133 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.480 practicing high magician, okay, because that. 134 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:35.000 Was his thing too. But this place, like it had 135 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:39.480 all kinds of it's just like a circus of just weird, 136 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:44.240 are we like? I can swear right, I don't know, yes, okay, 137 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:47.720 and at all kinds of weird shit. And always remember 138 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:51.360 the the crystal skulls. So you could take your astrology 139 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:53.399 class and you could go to a meditation class, and 140 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:57.000 then if you wanted, you could do something really bizarre. 141 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:03.600 That is cool. Is there any shops in Brooklyn anymore. 142 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:06.759 That's outside of Botanica's. 143 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:11.920 There are Botanica's. There are I can think of. Yeah, 144 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:16.920 just one shop that sells dried herbs. But so you 145 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:20.839 mean what you mean a place like that for classes. 146 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:22.160 Or like in occult shop at all, like out in 147 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:22.920 Brooklyn right. 148 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:25.079 Now, I think closed. 149 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:28.839 Oh that was the one I was trying to think 150 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:30.800 of in my head and I couldn't remember, and I 151 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:32.600 was like, I don't know if it's still open. I 152 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:36.919 remember that place. Yeah that's what. Yeah, that was like 153 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:40.399 that was like well known for a minute, like that 154 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:43.519 was kind of a staple for any practicing magician in Brooklyn. 155 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:47.480 They went, yeah, sure was. I think it's gone. 156 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.480 You had enchantments too in Manhattan. 157 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:55.759 Oh I've been to that. Yeah. Yeah, that's a wild store. 158 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:58.120 And down the street you have flower Powers. 159 00:08:59.399 --> 00:09:03.879 Hers. Yes, that's awesome. 160 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:04.080 Yo. 161 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:07.679 Their arms were sick. They had like really excited, but 162 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:09.360 like their rbs were really nice. 163 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:13.559 Flower Power is great. That's that's my place, flower Power. 164 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:17.639 Yeah, you know I really like that stuff. Yeah, that's funny. 165 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:21.000 Wow memories. Thanks. 166 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:28.559 Do you know what happened to uh, the cat? 167 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:31.039 I don't, but I think it's been a few years 168 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:32.279 since they've closed. 169 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:34.159 I wonder if COVID screwed them up. 170 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:36.600 COVID screwed a lot of places. 171 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:40.480 Especially small businesses like that. Yeah, unless you're like money wondering, 172 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:44.559 you really probably can't make it through that type of situation. No, 173 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:46.200 you know why I'm saying that. It was funny. I 174 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:48.320 was at my family's house yesterday. We were talking about 175 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.399 just like places closing, and my father was like, yo, 176 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:53.519 he's like what he brought up a situation with me 177 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:56.480 where during COVID there was say all these places shut 178 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:58.679 down and then eventually they started reopening and like this 179 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.440 store that was there for I should you not? It 180 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:05.200 was like a VCR repair store, And I was like, 181 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:08.480 how did you survive that and open back up? I'm like, 182 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:12.360 come on, that's swoom. You gotta be doing something else. 183 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:18.279 I mean, I don't know, won't go there? Yeah, what 184 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:21.960 are you getting five customers a year? Like? Something else 185 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:25.000 is going on to keep that store open. But we're 186 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:28.320 get we're getting off the topic now. I did want 187 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.919 to ask you, uh, Elisa, so we could give for 188 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.679 the listeners who may not know your work yet, how 189 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.879 would you describe the thread that connects astrology, tarot, magic, writing, 190 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:39.679 and psychoanalysis in your life? 191 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:41.000 Oh? 192 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:42.559 Wow, take as much time as you want. 193 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:49.799 What a question? How would I describe the thread? Well, 194 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.120 so you've got me literally wanting to describe a thread 195 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:56.919 like it's this, it's this, Uh, this is the width 196 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.039 of the thread, and this is the color of the thread. 197 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.080 I know there is a thread because I do them all, 198 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:09.559 so it does exist. You know, writing was there first 199 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:13.559 because I was always a writer, and then decades later 200 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:17.159 the astrology, and then the taro, and then the magic, 201 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:20.000 and then I mean the psychoanalysis. I don't know if 202 00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:27.080 you're well versed in astrological transits or you know the listeners. 203 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:31.080 Some folks maybe known, But for me, psychoanalysis was a 204 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.399 Urinus transit. When Urinus comes to your chart, you know, 205 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.960 when it's aspecting certain planets, when it moves through a 206 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.720 certain house. I mean, it's always going to change your life. 207 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:49.679 But for me it was quite literal because Urinus in 208 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:52.120 Taurus was my ninth house. Ninth House has to do 209 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:55.120 with publishing, It has to do with higher education. Urinus 210 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.799 is weird, unexpected, out of the blue, and I went 211 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:02.639 back to school. Maybe it's all It might all be 212 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:06.679 Urinus transits. Actually, in my life, have you ever noticed 213 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:09.000 that that some people, at least on the outside, seem 214 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:15.159 to have very their path seems kind of orderly, orderly 215 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:22.399 organized quotes like I'm thinking of certain people, that's just 216 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:25.200 straight lines, so to speak. 217 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:26.960 Everything seems to always transition. 218 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:30.879 Well, yeah, yeah, transition. Well, they're not on the verge 219 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:35.919 of homelessness, they're not discovering astrology, their relationships are not toxic. 220 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:40.080 It's just kind of chill, I guess. And then there's 221 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:46.720 the Uranian people, and it's always seem all over the place, 222 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:50.120 but they they are not It could be yeah or. 223 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:56.240 They, but they tend to be you. They tend to 224 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:00.840 be thinkers because it's like they put things together that 225 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:03.440 you wouldn't think would fit in perfectly. 226 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:06.120 Hmmm. That might be what Nick was. That might be 227 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.000 when Nick was getting at He's like, how do all 228 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:11.320 these things relate? And I'm thinking, like I don't know. 229 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:15.919 I don't because I don't. I haven't analyzed it. I 230 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:19.399 haven't thought about it in that way. But but you 231 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.879 know what, that's what the book is about. Actually, the 232 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:25.480 book is about that. I went back to school and 233 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:28.759 I thought I thought I was going to leave something behind, 234 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.320 and then I realized that they actually. 235 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:37.200 He brought it all forward with you. I what you 236 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:38.960 kind of like brought it all forward with you, and 237 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:42.000 you know, kind of yeah, there was an alchemist and 238 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:45.559 transmuted it into what you're what you're doing now exactly. 239 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.759 I like that. That's a good metaphor. Yeah, like I thought, 240 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:51.159 I thought my life was going to be at odds 241 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:56.559 or in pieces or fragmented, and I think I still 242 00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:00.720 feel that way a bit. But then I just discovered, oh, 243 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:04.919 this it's not at odds. Like you you really can 244 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:12.200 you really can be yourself whatever you've been, whoever you are, 245 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.440 and do something new. So old dogs learning new tricks, 246 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:19.000 as they say, do you. 247 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.360 Think you we defined the map what most people consider 248 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:25.799 a general map of where you're supposed to go, and 249 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.679 you just said, you know what, I don't want to 250 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:30.960 do this straight line. I want to just do some 251 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:32.720 I want to make some waves. 252 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.039 No, I didn't have I don't think I had any choice. 253 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:40.000 It wasn't a decision for me. It's never a decision. 254 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:44.759 It's just life happens. 255 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.320 Can you can you band on that? 256 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:54.679 Before before we started recording, we were talking about whether 257 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.960 you were a Libra or a Virgo, and I feel 258 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:01.440 like I feel like I'm feeling them both as you 259 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:06.039 asked me that question. Now I don't remember what the 260 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:06.639 question was. 261 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:09.960 No, I'm just asking you to expand on like you 262 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:10.840 didn't have a choice. 263 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.879 Oh yeah, yeah, I didn't decide. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't. Uh, 264 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.840 I didn't decide one day I'm going to be an astrologer. 265 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:21.440 I'm going to take an astro. It was all very 266 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:26.639 uh oh astrology. My you know, my friend is into it. 267 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:30.360 I read something and it was accurate. Let's see, like 268 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.679 it's all on a lark, kind of like the fool Card. 269 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:36.039 I feel like my life has been very fool Card 270 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:40.480 more than Emperor, like right, like Emperor is very structured. 271 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:46.960 So it was it wasn't a plan. It definitely wasn't 272 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.919 a plan to be weird or to get into these 273 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:55.399 things like it just kind of happened. Or people will 274 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.559 say like I didn't find it. It found me and 275 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:02.279 even I was learning astrology, I never thought I would 276 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:05.320 do it for a living. And I actually still remember 277 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:08.679 the day. I was a pet sitter for a long time. 278 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:14.559 I was dog walking and cat sitting and doing other 279 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:16.919 kinds of writing because I was a poet, writing poems 280 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:19.480 and writing plays. And I remember the day in Union Square. 281 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:20.559 I don't know if it's still there. There was a 282 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:23.279 McDonald's in Union Square and I was just sitting there 283 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:26.480 because it was raining. I still wanted Okay, it's still there, 284 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.159 and I just needed to get dry and just get 285 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.120 out of that terrible New York rain. And I was 286 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.240 just so frustrated. And I remember saying to myself, I 287 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:38.399 was frustrated with poetry. I was frustrated with all my 288 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.159 creative writing, saying to myself, you know what, I'm going 289 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.639 to blog. I'm going to blog and all my writing 290 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.720 is going to have to be about astrology because I 291 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:49.559 need it to I need my life to be less frustrating. 292 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:53.000 So I'm going to put all my eggs in that basket. 293 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:55.080 And at the time, that was like a really that 294 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.080 was a strange thing to do because not that many 295 00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:01.519 people were doing it. But I did make that decision 296 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:08.759 then that there was something in this other world for 297 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:13.599 me that was calling to me. I don't know if 298 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:14.599 I made any sense at. 299 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.599 All, No, No, you did. You did. It actually made 300 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:18.759 me think about myself a lot, and you just oh 301 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.200 tell us, well just even for me, like how like 302 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:25.519 this was like something I kind of got interested in, 303 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:28.599 and I might have had like a few books trying 304 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:30.200 to learn a little bit of stuff, and then like 305 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:32.079 some one day I was just like, you know, why 306 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:34.400 didn't I see if there's like a like an order 307 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.319 or something I can join. And I was a member 308 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:39.960 of the OTO for a while, so like even kind 309 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:41.400 of how like you were saying that you ended up 310 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:42.880 like that's why I thought it was kind of interesting 311 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:45.480 that you you kind of like jumped right into like 312 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.839 hands on stuff, And even for myself, I did kind 313 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.559 of quickly make the change from like finding things on 314 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:53.359 the internet, finding a few books and then I just 315 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:56.559 joined an order like real quick. And I even just 316 00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.880 remember then like before I did that before, like when 317 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:02.759 I went to the OTO and then you know, made 318 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.640 the decision that I'll keep coming back. I even just 319 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:08.599 remember then like like I know this is going to 320 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:10.119 be like if I'm going to do this. It's going 321 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.039 to be serious. They're going to make a part of 322 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.920 my life. And it just it was very much like 323 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.240 kind of just like just happened. I don't know, it's 324 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:20.960 hard to explain. It was just very a very quick 325 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.640 process for me, and I think, I, you know, in 326 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:25.359 some ways, I'm very lucky that I got, you know, 327 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:28.559 kind of exposed as much as you know, I, I 328 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:32.920 guess I don't promote the organization that much. There was 329 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:34.079 a lot of value out. 330 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.559 Of joining it for me, and now here you are. 331 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.920 Did this exactly. And I never even when I left there, 332 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:45.359 did I even have the idea too much or the 333 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:47.279 idea at all that I'd be doing this. And then 334 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.559 five years later it's like, how did It's just wild. 335 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:53.319 It's like I just went on. I jumped on a 336 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:54.920 roller coaster and just let it take me where I went. 337 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:57.200 Hmm. Yeah. 338 00:18:57.960 --> 00:18:59.680 The Fool card, Oh. 339 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:01.200 I fully played the Fool Yes? 340 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.839 Or the Tower or the Wheel of Fortune. 341 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.559 I like the Wheel of Fortune. I actually liked that 342 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.119 card a lot. I like that one. 343 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:09.680 Number ten. 344 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.480 It's a good one. Yeah. It was either that or 345 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:15.720 the Empress that I was later on we'll get to 346 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:17.480 and maybe just ask you to kind of go over 347 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:22.319 a little bit. But I did have something I think 348 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:25.640 is great about having you on. Then other Tarot people 349 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:28.039 that I've had on recently and didn't realize how many 350 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.720 of them were into Young before I had them, all 351 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:34.759 Oh okay, So I'm happy that I have you on 352 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:36.519 because you kind of look at it in a fruity 353 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:39.599 and for how have you said? Psychoanalysis? 354 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.200 Yeah, yeah, Young, he's permeated. Is there a terror book 355 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:50.119 that doesn't have some cabalistic framework which is not explained 356 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:54.759 and probably not understood by the author and Jungian you know, 357 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:57.359 no shade on the grates even though I just said that, 358 00:19:57.400 --> 00:19:59.960 but you know, I mean if you're a Tarot person 359 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:04.480 and you know how it has perfumed, uh you know kabbalistic? 360 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:06.119 Oh you just said that. 361 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.400 And Siriah. And also to the YouTubers who who added 362 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:12.559 in or you know wherever they're being heard and they 363 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:15.759 can't even pronounce the Hebrew words, give me a fucking break. 364 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:20.279 There's a basic Hebrew before you're gonna do that talk 365 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:21.359 about the tree of life. 366 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:23.359 If I was able to do it, If I was 367 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:24.880 able to do it, anybody can do it. 368 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:28.480 I'm sure yours is perfect. 369 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.119 I love how you said that. I will always try 370 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:34.440 to mention that on the show. And anybody ever have 371 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.839 on for Taro more times out of they normally say no, 372 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.000 but I always do Askoul, do you attribute to cards 373 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:44.680 to the cabalistic tree of life? I mean that's how 374 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:45.319 I study. 375 00:20:46.359 --> 00:20:51.640 People study the Kabbala for decades for you know, your 376 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:52.920 entire freaking life. 377 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:54.119 I love it. I love it. 378 00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:59.079 And and Taro Tanya is showing up with her cabalistic 379 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:02.720 attributions and her book. It's like, no, just stop, stop 380 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:07.079 it all all right, you got me all riled up now. 381 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:09.720 But I guess I went there because it was Jung 382 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:14.720 also has that place as he the water. Basically, I'm 383 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:18.279 talking about like watered down, barely understood or very very 384 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:23.640 watered down ideas that they just they get cherry picked 385 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:26.720 and show up. So it's weird, right, The history of 386 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:28.480 Tarot books is kind of weird in that way. 387 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:36.079 Yeah, yeah, but uh, I guess yeah. And that question 388 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:39.680 that I had your book connects Taro with Freudian psychoanalysis. 389 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:42.880 What was the moment where those those two worlds stopped 390 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.720 feeling separate to you and kind of came together or 391 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:47.119 was it like that or did you see it like 392 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:47.880 that from the beginning. 393 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.000 I didn't see it like that from the beginning. And 394 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:52.880 the book does talk. I mean, that is what the 395 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:56.119 book is about. And I and I also say in 396 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.200 the book anything from Freud or psychoanalysis. I am just 397 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.240 scratching the surface. I mean, I'm in training. I'm not 398 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:08.359 a you know, I'm not the expert of the world here. 399 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:14.799 But I had no idea that that was going to 400 00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:17.359 happen because I went back to school. I went into 401 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:21.480