WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.600 You're good with your microphone. I don't know. Let's just 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:08.519 do it, okay, Well, you remember back when we first 3 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:10.599 met each other. I feel like one of the part 4 00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:13.199 of the genesis of off topic was you and I. 5 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:14.919 I do not remember meeting you, by the way. I 6 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:16.719 just I feel like I kind of always knew you. 7 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:17.679 I know what you mean. 8 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:20.359 Yeah, I remember the specific time I got introduced to you. 9 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:22.800 Yeah. No, me neither. That's a fair point, but I 10 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:26.239 guess I mean specifically, one of our first movie conversations 11 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:29.719 was about a quiet place. Yeah, sure, and uh I 12 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:31.719 was coming to you. Leo and I were speaking on 13 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:34.600 the air, and I said, yeah, I very rarely gravitate 14 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:37.320 towards the thing that everybody tells you is great. I 15 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:39.640 guess it was a quiet place, which was a quiet place. 16 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:42.200 I can recognize why it's good. But when you watch 17 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:44.159 as many movies as I do, I'm looking for the 18 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:47.560 strange and unusual versus the uh what everybody's kind of 19 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.439 pointing towards. I've always felt kind of the same way 20 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:52.759 about the Knives Out movies. They're very fun, and they're 21 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:55.280 very enjoyable, and they're well made, and the acting is incredible, 22 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:57.039 but I always feel like like, oh, this is a 23 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:59.320 little at least after the first one, I should say 24 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:01.359 I was like, this is a little cliche. I don't 25 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:03.799 know what I feel. I gotta say I'm breaking my 26 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:08.519 own mold here. I thoroughly enjoyed. Yeah, the cliche ish neist. 27 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:10.799 I thought they had enough fun inversions on it to 28 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:12.519 really make it a fun thing. And it looks like 29 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:14.439 people kind of agree with that sentiment. Did you and 30 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:15.760 did you enjoy it? I did? 31 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:18.359 And this is coming from a guy. We're talking about 32 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:21.680 Knives Out, Wake Up, dead Man, the third installment and 33 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:23.680 the Knives Out Ryan Johnson. I don't want to say 34 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:26.760 universe because I think these kinds are they all existing 35 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:27.439 in the same. 36 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:30.120 Yeah, I mean Daniel Craig is the only consistent, the 37 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:31.120 only consistent. 38 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:33.680 Guy, Okay, so anyway, which we have to talk about 39 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:37.599 him a little bit, is absolutely so. I never saw 40 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:39.840 the first two, and I heard great things about the 41 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:42.319 first one. I heard not so great things about the 42 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:45.519 second one, and then the third one. I had no idea, 43 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:48.400 like I saw this before I looked up anything about 44 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:50.840 what people were saying about And it seems like this 45 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:54.640 is a nice rebound, right it's similar to True Detective 46 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:57.879 on HBO. Right, you had this unbelievable season one. Season 47 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:01.120 two could not be more of a Collie failure based 48 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:03.400 on the critics and the audience scores and everything on that. 49 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:05.599 Then you had season three, which was a nice little 50 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:07.879 bounce back, and four has kind of found its way 51 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:11.520 with Jody Foster. And I can't remember who else was 52 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:15.800 in that one besides Jodi Foster. But this one seems 53 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:17.759 to be kind of in the in the middle between 54 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:19.719 one and two as far as how good it is, 55 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:22.120 how enjoyable it is. But I think closer to the 56 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:24.919 first one, recapturing some of that magic here that we 57 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:26.400 love to see in the first one. 58 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:28.879 Yeah. Look, I looked it up on the Rotten Tomatoes, 59 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.000 which take that for what it is. You know, it's 60 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:33.639 by no means perfect, but ironically enough, all three of 61 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:36.039 them are in the low nineties for critics on a 62 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.719 second one. Yeah, So, I mean this is mine. 63 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:40.599 Neither one of us has seen the second. 64 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:41.960 We have not seen the thing. I have not seen 65 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.240 the first. You have seen the first, yes, and so, 66 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:46.719 and I do want to talk about Daniel Craig as well, 67 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:48.319 but just to at least get this out of the 68 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:51.159 way at first my interpretation. Far be it from me 69 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:55.680 to put my opinion on everybody. There is the second movie, 70 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:59.319 For No Reason at All, dives into Daniel Craig's character 71 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:02.479 Ben wab Blae being a gay man for no reason 72 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:04.719 at all. It really has nothing to do with the plot. 73 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:06.479 So that doesn't happen at all in the first one. 74 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:08.800 No, and it really doesn't happen in this one. And 75 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:09.240 in this. 76 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:11.680 America know that he was gay. I just kind of 77 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:12.639 and you. 78 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.879 Wouldn't have known in the first one either. The second 79 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.479 one jumps into it heavy, and in this America, a 80 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:19.199 lot of people, why do you have to shoehorn this 81 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.400 into everything? He could have just been a character, and 82 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:23.759 I think it might have got review bombed more than 83 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:27.199 it actually was bad. It would be my guest, based 84 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:29.080 on a lot of the react that's interesting and that 85 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.319 makes sense. Now, this is what I want to ask 86 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:34.800 you specifically about him. Did he did he have this accent? 87 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:37.240 And the way he talked was at the season like 88 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:39.400 the first one as well the first movie. Yeah, and 89 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.639 more importantly he was that's I'm let's just start there. 90 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:45.800 He was not nearly as prominently featured in this they. 91 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:47.599 Let Josh O'Connor. 92 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:50.680 Yes, they let Josh O'Connor take the reins a little 93 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:52.599 bit here on this one, which was enjoyable. I thought 94 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:55.280 he did a great job. But would you say he 95 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:57.960 was the lead in this order, Yes, I would. And 96 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.120 it was a similar setup, and that you get like 97 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:03.039 twenty minutes maybe thirty minutes of no Daniel Craig. You 98 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:05.479 get to know the character longer, it might be, it 99 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:07.800 might very well be. You get to know the nuance 100 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:10.159 the of the interactions, and then he kind of swoops 101 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:12.840 in after like that was very similar. But once he 102 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.319 steps in in the first one, it is his vehicle 103 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:17.240 for the rest of the movie. I gotcha. And he 104 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:20.839 was very bombastic, and he was very over the top, 105 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.199 and this one felt a little more reserved. He's still 106 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:26.759 at his moments. Wasn't as prominently featured, but I could tell. 107 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:28.399 I don't know if it was because it was a 108 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:31.079 limited release or more of a Netflix style release. Maybe 109 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:34.319 they're like, we can only afford to twenty five minutes 110 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:37.199 to Daniel Craigs. So I have no idea what it 111 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:39.519 led to it, but like it was noticeable how much 112 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:42.360 less prominently he was featured in this one compared to 113 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:45.000 at least the original. Again, I haven't seen the second one. 114 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:47.519 Right, and they are on my list because I did 115 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:49.120 like this one quite a bit and I have a 116 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.120 feeling and now that you bring up the review bomb 117 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:53.160 with the second one, I think I'm more excited to 118 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:55.399 see the second one. Although my buddy the commiss who's 119 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:57.480 seen the first two, has not seen the third one yet. 120 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:00.240 He said, just the second one suck. Now, he has 121 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:02.600 some very interesting viewpoints on life. I think I brought 122 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:04.920 that up for so I take his stuff usually with 123 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:06.120 a grain of salt, and. 124 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:08.360 I could be mistaken. The movie could suck like you 125 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:10.720 never know, but I know that was well, there's promise. 126 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:12.959 There's been plenty of stuff that he has said is 127 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:15.639 great that I think is very mediocre, sure, and other 128 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:18.000 stuff that he thinks absolutely sucks, and I'm like, God, 129 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:18.600 this is great. 130 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:21.879 So whatever. The way that they set. 131 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:25.079 This one up is Josh O'Connor is a former boxer 132 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:30.560 turned priest, Yes, and he basically slugs a priest at 133 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.399 the parish he was at, and then he gets transferred 134 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.720 to this parish in rural New York State that is 135 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:44.079 being run by uh, Thanos helped me out l who 136 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.120 sounded like when he was preaching, yes, was it? 137 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:50.680 Did you not hear yeah? I heard it. 138 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:53.519 I didn't hear cale. I heard yeah, there's that. It 139 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:54.759 was definitely more Thanos than cable. 140 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:58.480 But with with the way he preached, so okay, just 141 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:02.319 to set this up, so he feels like his character 142 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:05.319 feels like Josh O'Connor's character might be like being sent 143 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:07.720 there to take over his parish a little bit. 144 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:12.480 And the way that Jefferson Wicks, who is his character 145 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:17.360 in the movie, that's Josh Brolin, he preaches in such 146 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:23.759 an incendiary tone that it turns off so many people 147 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:26.160 like he's I think they bring it up like he 148 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:29.839 doesn't feel like he's had a successful sermon unless somebody 149 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:34.199 leaves out of embarrassment or whatever. And so basically his 150 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:37.079 his parish is down to just a handful really like 151 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:40.560 eight or nine people that show up. Yeah, the truest 152 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:43.480 of believers, right, and they're all big Jefferson Wicks followers. 153 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:45.560 And ironically, it turns out, as we found out this 154 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.360 first forty five minutes or so of the movie, half 155 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:51.040 hour whatever it was, where it's Josh O'Connor's character Judd, 156 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:54.879 that is sort of narrating everything he is telling you 157 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:58.800 about these characters as we're finding out about him. Like that, 158 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:02.120 we're being introduced by by Judd's character to these characters 159 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:06.120 who end up being the and and spoiler alert, Jefferson 160 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.560 Wicks is the dead man referred to in Wake Up 161 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:12.439 dead Man. Yeah, they become all prime suspects. 162 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:12.920 Yeah. 163 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:14.920 And what I liked about it and we'll get into 164 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.600 the caper of this here or the who done an 165 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:20.879 aspect of it, I really never got a good handle 166 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:26.680 on who had the best motivation and who was most 167 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.879 likely to be the killer slash killers in this film 168 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:35.600 from yeah, okay, and even as we as as we 169 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:38.439 got deeper and deeper where you should be figuring more 170 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.120 and more out, I had more and more questions, and 171 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:43.759 I really didn't know, Like and so then when you know, 172 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:46.000 I said to you before, there's a lot of headfakes 173 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:49.759 in this film of like, oh, okay, so here's what 174 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:52.040 now that's not exactly what. Oh, but but it had 175 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:55.319 to happen, not necessarily, and and so it wasn't until 176 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:57.920 like I want to say, the very end, but almost 177 00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:59.879 to the very end I'm like, oh, I get it, 178 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.680 which was really cool, And and I don't know how 179 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:05.600 you feel about it, because I think you are more 180 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:09.519 in tune to these types of movies that you like 181 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.600 so much. And I do like a good who done it? 182 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.399 But I am not actively trying to figure it out 183 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:19.720 when as I'm watching it, I'm just enjoying the story 184 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:22.480 play out. And obviously I have questions in my mind, 185 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:24.839 but I'm not like really banging my head the way 186 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.360 that jud and ben Wan Blanc we're banging their heads 187 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.480 trying to figure this this caper out. But I would 188 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:36.519 love to know your perspective on how challenging it was 189 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:40.039 to you as the audience member of the level of 190 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.919 and the layers of not secrecy, but the layers of. 191 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:51.279 What's the word conspiracy, No, not conspiracy, the level of 192 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.039 it'll come to me, okay, but basically the level of 193 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:01.039 don't worry about it. 194 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:03.279 No, this is going to really irritate. Yeah, I got 195 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:03.960 to stop drinking. 196 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:08.039 Yeah, but uh, I will say, I believe you listen 197 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:12.080 for sure. Yeah they could go in any direction. Yeah, yeah, 198 00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:12.720 yeah for sure. 199 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:14.879 So that's I'm more curious about that with you. 200 00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:18.120 Yeah, it definitely rang through and so let me say 201 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:21.519 I'll describe this by giving another example. There is a 202 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:24.480 throwaway who Done It movie called eighty eight Minutes starring 203 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.480 al Pachante and Alpatain. Sure absolutely. A buddy of mine 204 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:28.080 in college. 205 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:29.639 Say throw away because it was so short. 206 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:33.120 Because it was it was so forgettable, oh like cookie Cutter. Yeah. 207 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:35.960 The only reason I remember it is for this story 208 00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:39.759 because my college friend said, watch eighty eight minutes with me. 209 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:43.440 I've never been more confused by uh by a who 210 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:45.399 Done It in my life. And I'm like, oh, totally. 211 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:47.279 I'm really good at guessing this stuff and I'm here 212 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:49.159 for that. And so he puts the movie on. In 213 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.440 about thirty minutes in there's a scene in a parking 214 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:54.360 lot where every single one of his students who could 215 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:56.960 possibly be the person who has them, he's it's basically 216 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:58.879 like the plot to Diehard three. He's got a phone 217 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:00.200 and he's got to get from A to B to 218 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:03.679 see and get somewhere. Within eighty eight minutes, every single 219 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:05.639 one of the people who could be the murderer is 220 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:07.879 shown in a suspicious light. And at the end of 221 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:10.559 that scene, there's one blonde girl who was sitting in 222 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:14.399 the corner crying because somebody attacked her. And I looked 223 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:16.679 at my friend and said, she's the murderer. Yeah, And 224 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:18.480 he says why and I said, cause she's the only 225 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:20.879 one that the movie didn't tell me. Yeah. And he's like, 226 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:22.799 but no, why And I said, oh, I don't know, 227 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:25.120 but she's the murder right. Yeah. I'm not good at 228 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:29.679 these because I will understand the why behind. I'm good 229 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:32.279 because I understand movie making, and I know when you're 230 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:34.320 trying to distract me, and I know what you want 231 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:35.080 me to look at. 232 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:36.960 Look here, now, to look over here. 233 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:39.799 I knew who the murderer was. I think thirty five 234 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:44.720 seconds after we found Josh Brolin dead shot. Uh yeah, 235 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:49.080 I really, yeah. 236 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:50.759 I find Okay, listen, I give you credit for your movie, chops. 237 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:51.360 Yeah, okay. 238 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:53.919 I find this extraordinarily hard to believe. 239 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.519 Yeah. I didn't get all the ins and outs because 240 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.480 there's the but the fundamental crux of what was happening 241 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:01.480 I had put together. 242 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.639 Right, here's here's the thing. Here's the thing. I think 243 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:07.639 had I been watching it now that I think about 244 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.279 this movie, had I been watching it, and had I've 245 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:13.240 seen how they structured everything with the introduction to all 246 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:17.480 the characters, you know, Jeremy Renner, Kerrie Washington, which was 247 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:21.080 great cast, but yeah, we'll get there, Thomas Hayden Church. 248 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:22.960 Who is the woman, the old Jeremy Reynard. 249 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:26.879 Yeah, so you have all these So I could have 250 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:30.000 if if you asked me at that point based on, 251 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:33.919 you know, previous movie watching, and you said, okay, I 252 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:39.080 need you to pick who you think the murderer is. Yeah, 253 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:44.879 I think I feel fairly confident I would have guessed right, yes, okay, 254 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:47.960 and see hold on, hold on, I would have guessed right. Yeah, 255 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:50.480 guess it would have been a guest. Yes, But you 256 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:52.799 were sure of it? Yeah, what was your level? 257 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:53.679 Confidence level? 258 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:56.080 Pretty high, like ninety something. 259 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:58.559 Yeah, And I don't want to say what and. 260 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:00.679 You I don't understand this and you still enjoyed it. 261 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:02.960 Oh yeah, I mean because I didn't know if I 262 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:04.759 was right. But there's one thing that I don't want 263 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:06.360 to say on the show because if I say it, 264 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:10.039 you'll say the moment and you'll know what happened. But 265 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:12.159 these movies, and I hesitate to say this to you 266 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:14.960 because you want to see the first ones. They typically 267 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:17.679 like Scream was very famous for We're gonna make you 268 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:20.600 think it's the boyfriend right away. Then we're gonna tell 269 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.600 you that it's not the boyfriend, so that that's off 270 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:24.399 your radar. And then it turns out that it was 271 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:25.000 the boyfriend. 272 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:28.240 That's every single dateline, investigation, discovery ever. 273 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:30.120 Yeah, but it turns out there were two killers, and 274 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:32.360 there was no way for you to actually infer that 275 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:34.120 there were two killing. It's like there was no hint 276 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.559 at that. Hold on, what are you talking about in scream? 277 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:38.679 In scream, Oh, It's like the way they were able 278 00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:40.360 to convince you it wasn't him is because there was 279 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:42.159 a second guy doing it, and you never would have 280 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:45.279 guessed that unless you've already seen the movie. These movies, 281 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:47.480 and this this was true of the first one. Like 282 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.240 I remember thinking like, oh, well, that guy's clearly the 283 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.759 biggest shiitthead in the movie, so that can't be the 284 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:54.720 guy that it is. Yeah, and then it is, and 285 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:57.679 I'm just like really, yeah, like you're you're gonna remove 286 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:00.399 You're gonna remove all of the pretext and like these 287 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:03.080 don't necessarily pull their punches in that way. So when 288 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:05.360 I saw the scene and when I saw that moment, 289 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:08.000 and they even tell a story about the past of 290 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:11.559 the church, and I started putting pieces together and like, oh, obviously, 291 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:14.840 and I immediately made the jump. And sure enough, there's 292 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:17.320 a bunch of twists and turns, some of which I guess, 293 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.080 some of which caught me off guard. But I actually 294 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:22.600 called a lot of this movie wow because of I'm 295 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:24.919 still enjoyed it. I did you know what? You know 296 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:27.080 what stuck out to me? And this isn't spoiling anything 297 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:29.879 because you said you don't like actively watching it. This 298 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.200 movie encourages that. Though there's a scene where they're holding up. 299 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.320 The picture, it's because I think of the first two 300 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:41.240 knives out, like you you go in with with the 301 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.600 expectation that you need to be doing that, right. 302 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:44.320 Yeah, And I. 303 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.440 Don't necessarily like that because I think it's it's almost 304 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:48.000 like a chore. 305 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:49.960 Yeah, I want to enjoy that. But did you like 306 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.320 one experience? Did you like when they held the picture 307 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:53.960 up to the scene and they would show and they 308 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:55.559 bring it down, they'd hold it up and like, so 309 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:57.960 you think you notice stuff, but then it turns out 310 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.039 there was other stuff, and it's like active participation in 311 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.120 showing to So I loved that. I've never seen that 312 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:04.039 before and I loved it. 313 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:06.279 There were the scene that Ben's talking about. They're in 314 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:09.519 a pub, yeah, yeah, and Ben wi Blanc is holding 315 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.039 up a photo of the pub from this taken from 316 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:14.919 the same perspective that he was standing at, and he 317 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:16.679 holds a photo up in front of the camera. Then 318 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.080 he drops it. And I don't think it's actually explained 319 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:22.320 because like, even in that moment, I didn't see it. 320 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:24.120 I didn't see what he was seeing me neither. 321 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:24.960 I didn't see that part. 322 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:27.320 And then in spoiler alert, you end up finding out 323 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.120 what he was seeing at that point before the movie ends. 324 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:32.200 And you have the capacity to notice it, like it's 325 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.159 on the viewer to watch it for sure. 326 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:39.639 So, uh, I just can't get over how you enjoyed 327 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:42.279 this movie when you saw this all. 328 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:44.679 Well, because it wasn't it wasn't a guarantee that I 329 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:46.759 was right. I was just like, oh, this is probably 330 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.039 because but you said you were so sure. Yeah. But 331 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:52.039 I was also so sure about the blonde girl in 332 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.159 eighty eight minutes, not because I understood and I don't 333 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.200 remember the movie like there actually is like evidence to 334 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:58.639 back up that she was the killer, and there was. 335 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:01.360 Stuff you call that note to that. Yeah, prior to 336 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:01.799 her crime. 337 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:04.840 Yeah, you throughout the movie, like there were hints that 338 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:06.879 you could have figured it out. But I get that. 339 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:09.360 But Ben, you're you made the call the moment these 340 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.440 characters were well, I shouldn't say the moment these characters 341 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:14.679 are introduced, but you made the call so early in 342 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:15.559 both of these films. 343 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.440 I did the same thing in Shutter Island and I 344 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.480 love Shutter of Thirty minutes in I was like, oh, 345 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:20.480 it's all in his imagine. 346 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:23.799 I don't like that. Yeah, I don't. I mean that's great. Yeah, 347 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.200 And I brought this up with commission. He said, you know, 348 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.000 the best who done it's are the ones where you 349 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:28.879 can figure it out. 350 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:31.279 I agree, I don't. I don't like that. 351 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:33.840 I I want a big reveal at the end, and 352 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:36.039 I got one in this film. You got a smaller reveal. 353 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:38.200 So but so let me let me hit you with 354 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:41.000 a quote here, George R. Martin, our boy. Sure is 355 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:43.080 this the pole Butler quote that you Yeah, Okay, I've 356 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:44.720 already done it on the show. Never mind that I 357 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.120 think times but so then, But but to that effect, then, 358 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:50.440 the fact that people are able to figure out that 359 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:52.879 the butler did it, is that a testament to good storytelling? 360 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:55.440 Or is that a predictable story. I'd argue it's good storytelling, 361 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:57.759 and he's he refused it would allow him. 362 00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:00.559 It would happen to be good scory story. If you're 363 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:02.679 gonna have the butler do it, you better have a 364 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:04.639 really good story prior to that. 365 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.399 But for me to be able to guess the butler 366 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:08.759 did it would there would have to be enough subtle crumbs, 367 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:11.440 because not everybody knew what it was building towards. I 368 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:15.279 didn't know the J plus L on the tree thing 369 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:19.200 was freaking you know, what's his name, John Snow and 370 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.879 what and Targarian's ancestors, and that they were related in 371 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:24.720 some way, Like I didn't put that shit together. But 372 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:27.279 the fact that some people love this stuff enough to 373 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.200 be like, hey, maybe these initials are correlated to this, 374 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.279 that's good storytelling. Like to me, I was caught off 375 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:35.320 guard by that when other people were able to put 376 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:38.200 it together. To me, I think if no one, like 377 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:40.639 I said, was Scream. I love the movie. Scream not 378 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:44.440 necessarily good storytelling. There was no indication at any point 379 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.720 that two people were the murders of that. In every The. 380 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.720 Difference with Scream was it was sort of a like 381 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.080 one of the first, at least that I can remember. 382 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.639 It was one of the first meta horror slasher movies 383 00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:59.960 we've ever seen where it assumes you are well versed 384 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:02.799 in the template of slasher films, and even if you're not, 385 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.440 Jamie Kennedy gives you the crash course several times throughout 386 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:10.279 the film. So the difference with that one was expectations 387 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:14.640 for me changed, right, because they set you up for 388 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.640 following this template the whole the whole way, and then 389 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:19.960 at the end like, oh, by the way, now we're 390 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.319 breaking the template, right, And I think with knives out, 391 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:26.319 there's and again I should I should have taken time 392 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:28.240 to watch the first two so I could speak more 393 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.759 eloquently and with more authority on it. 394 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:33.240 It's basically the same movie, I'll be honest, compared to 395 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:34.119 the first first one. 396 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:38.079 In audiences in today's day and age, especially for these 397 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:41.680 types of films, man, you have really really got to 398 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.480 spin a good yarn or people are going to destroy it. 399 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:47.079 And there's always going to be people like you who 400 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:49.519 figure stuff out, like there's just no getting around it, 401 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:52.119