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Speaker 1: Hello, he'll be in nations. How the heck are you?

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How would your a week? Last week? What's a good?

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What about your weekend? What's it even better? Other than hot?

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And what has it been hot? How has it been?

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Tell you what? How about you go to our Facebook

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group ageandall tell us all about it? How would your week?

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Speaker 2: Just?

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Speaker 1: She'll think, if I didn't happen, I have gout some

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good news till something good happened. I will admit nothing

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really excliting has happened on this side other than spending

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the last two weekends split in the firewood getting ready

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for winter. Thank the Lord for machinery between my tractor

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and my wood splitter. I don't know how I can

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get all this done? Thank you technology. Not a whole

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out of house keeping A do today actually known? So

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let's get right into it, Shelley. This week, Jerry Trace

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talking about the legend behind Robert the Dog. You know,

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we all know what Jerry thought about poor old little Robert.

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From what I understand, he even uh tipped and hit

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the feet a few times and uh and I'm pretty

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sure Tracy got onto him my asking so mission for

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pictures and on all that fun stuff. Happily talk about

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Robert the Doll. They have a spectacular interview with the

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master of Weird John he L Tenny, y'all enjoy the

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sweet show here. We'll talk to you later.

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Speaker 3: Bob.

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Speaker 4: It's about to.

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Speaker 5: Be your pune ride. Following long watch as we slapped heavy, normal,

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just hit the lights, goose bumps through the night, mixing

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just a little bit of twains that girls show can't

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do a thing together. He winsane, that's so hard, and brain,

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how can't you won't ever change?

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Speaker 2: He's too hit.

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Speaker 5: He got the recipe, sat on back and listen in

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dies some of Gor talk his histories day.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to you, Bill and Horror Stories.

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Speaker 2: And Mal he is yours, Jerry, Tracy Pauline, and they're told.

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Speaker 3: Men, what are you doing here? Don't you know? Jerry

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and Tracy and live here. They're coming. They hear you there.

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Speaker 4: Hey guys, you're and Tracy back for episode eighty six

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of Hillbily Horror Stories. Of course I'm Jerry because I

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just said that you did. And I'm joined by what

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was your name, ma'am?

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Speaker 6: My name is Tracy Paully. So nice to meet you.

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Speaker 4: We are so excited to be back. It seems like

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we were just here a couple of days ago and

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we were Yeah, it was we hope you guys enjoyed

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your little bonus episode that we did. We've already gotten

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some good reviews on that. Keith Linder was a fantastic guest, yea.

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And tonight, of course we are going to do our

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second revisit. We did the revisit just a couple of

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weeks ago on Bobby Mackie's and now we're going to

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revisit the Robert the Doll story and I try to

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dig up some new information and take a different twist

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on it. So hopefully you enjoyed this one.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, hope you do.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, before we jump into the stories, we like to

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always give thanks to all of our military and civil

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servants all over the world, no matter what country you support.

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Speaker 6: God bless every one of you. And we'd also like

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to say a special prayer for the firefighters in West Virginia. Yes,

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it's such a sad thing, you know, these these guys volunteers,

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guys and gals volunteer their services and unfortunately the firetruck

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wrecked and I think it was two of the firefighters

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were killed and they were actually on their way to

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uh fatality, which already involved three people. So I just

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want to say, you know, we're praying for you guys.

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This is such a terrible, terrible loss. But we do

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appreciate you guys so much and everything you do for us.

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Speaker 4: We realized that you never know when heading out to

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something as simple as just an automobile accident, how you're

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putting your life on the line without even realizing.

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Speaker 6: All right, so but we we love and appreciate every

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one of you, and please please be safe and take

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care of yourselves.

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Speaker 4: A couple of itune reviews, let me rephrase that one.

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Speaker 7: Why one is the loll nes numb And I had

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to work more this week because I didn't have.

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Speaker 6: Time to just you know, I could just read one

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one review, But we love that review. And that review

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came from deb fifteen sixty nine than you.

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Speaker 4: Why do you love that review?

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Speaker 6: Because it says love Tracy's laugh.

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Speaker 4: So we get one review the entire week and it

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says love Tracy's laugh. That's all that. It says, thank you.

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Speaker 6: That means a lot to me.

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Speaker 4: Now, on more positive notes, Patreon supporters, we had four

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new ones this week. Ray Teresa Rowland, thank you so much.

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Thank you, Melody Harrison, thank you so much. Jackie Moss

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actually edited hers and actually switched to a higher tier.

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Speaker 6: Oh thanks, honey, thank you.

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Speaker 4: And I hope I pronounced it like it's spelt like

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Keriston Cooper. But I could see how some people may

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say that's Kristen if you say way, but I think

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it's Keirston Cooper.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, I love that name is really pretty.

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Speaker 4: It is pretty. Thank you guys so much for all

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of your patronage.

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Speaker 6: Thank you. We appreciate you and love you.

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Speaker 4: And as usual, we are getting really close to that

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time the first of the month where we put out

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our Listener Stories episode. So if you guys have a

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listener story that you would like to tell on our

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Patreon episode, send us a message and we will get

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in touch with you because we were probably doing those

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this week. Oh yes, the first is what Sunday is Easter?

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Easter ball yep, so Easter. We have a Patreon episode

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coming out and a regular episode on the same.

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Speaker 6: Day, and Easter in April fol is on the same day.

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Speaker 4: What the heck four things happen in that day.

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Speaker 6: That's crazy. Yeah, So I have a feeling that a

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lot of Easter egg planters are going to be having

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a lot of fun with the Easter egg hunters. Do

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you feel me?

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Speaker 4: What are you saying?

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Speaker 6: Because it's gonna be April full choke and the go

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back like they hit each eggs and then in fact

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they really didn't.

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Speaker 4: You remember when I was watching that episode of Parks

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and Recreation where they were out there all looking for

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the Easter eggs in the way you could find.

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Speaker 6: Them because I didn't them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, she said so, and SO was in charge. I

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had them, and he's like, oh, yeah, I forgot.

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Speaker 6: So it's how to be an interesting holiday, for sure.

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Speaker 4: It should be fun, should be fun, It'll be fun.

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I can't remember Easter ever being on April fools.

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Speaker 6: It's me either.

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Speaker 4: I can keep up when the Easter is. I can't

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remember what the protocol is for what Sunday it is.

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But I mean sometimes it's in April. Sometimes no, you can't.

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Speaker 6: May I mean one year it was on my sister's

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birthday and it's the fourteenth of April.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I don't know. I had to go look

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and I'm sure somebody's gonna write me and tell me.

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Speaker 6: But I really can't.

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Speaker 4: Well, I remember it's on a certain certain Sunday of

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the year or something. That's what throws everything off. But

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I mean it's got to do with obviously the religious. Yeah,

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but I'm saying, okay, I'll just get off of it

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because I don't know people will start pointing my mistakes

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out like they did on the Tower of London episode.

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So let's jump into that real quick. Because when it

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comes to stories such as supernatural, paranormal, that type of thing,

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a lot of that is subjective, so you can't really say, oh,

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they didn't see this ghost or it's all our opinion.

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But when we're dealing in actual facts, those are facts,

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and a couple couple of facts that we well, let

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me say, I misput out there on the Tower of

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London episode. I wanted to address and give thanks to

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people who pointed.

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Speaker 6: Out, oh yeah, absolutely that.

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Speaker 4: So the first one we got to go back into

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Anne Berlin. Now this wasn't as much of a me

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being wrong as I probably said it wrong. What I

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said was that King Henry the Eighth wanted a male

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heir to the throne and she could no longer have kids,

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so that's why he put her to death, and the

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reality of it is she could have kids. Matter of fact,

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she was. I think Queen Elizabeth was her daughter, so

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she had had already had a daughter, but she had

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had several miscarriages. So when I said that she couldn't

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have kids, I didn't mean that she wasn't fertile. I'm

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just saying that they weren't having any success having any

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male kid because of several miscarriages and stuff. So that's

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what I meant by she couldn't have kids. So I

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could have probably put that a different way, maybe like

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I just did, rather than just sending, but I was

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trying to move along. And the next one obviously had

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to do with we were talking about Sir Walter Riley

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and he had the situation with Bessie where he was

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married to her, and I said she was a maid

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of honor, and I said the Queen was irritated because

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she really liked Sir Walter Riley didn't like the fact

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that he got married. And I made the comment that

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she was already married, she shouldn't care. The reality was

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she was not married, and Bessie wasn't her maid of honor.

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She was like a lady in waiting. I guess from

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when that happened. So I was wrong on that aspect completely.

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And I made an assumption because the one article that

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I did read said that she was a maid of honor.

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When I think made of honor, I think at a wedding.

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So I made the assumption and that was my fault.

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So there we go.

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Speaker 6: You made an assumption. That's surprising whatever.

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Speaker 4: So I was wrong, and I have no problem making

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corrections with you.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you for that information. Anyway, we love it,

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especially love.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I started saying I didn't love it. I'm sure

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you loved it. So let's get into Robert the Dall.

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I'm not into because that's it could be some kind

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of fetish. I don't know, but I'm not getting into Robert. Okay,

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so let's talk about the story of Robert Dahl. So

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we're going to start off by me painting a picture,

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which is good because the main character.

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Speaker 2: Was an artist.

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Speaker 6: Oh okay, good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, since the surprise in your voice, since you had

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no clue, all right, so everybody closed her eyes unless

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you're driving, and just think. So it's the middle of

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the night. You got a ten year old child. He

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awakens to find this stuffed doll staring at him from

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the foot of his bed. His glassy eye's expressionless face

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is just unnatural. This is a child's best friend during

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the day, but now the child is paralyzed with fear.

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Across the house, the child's mother is abruptly awakened by

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her child's screams and sounds of furniture being overturned. She

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rushes into the room, panic stricken, only to find the

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door locked. On the other side of the door, she

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can hear this sinister giggle and a commotion going on.

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She hears her son calling out to her, begging to

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be rescued. She finally gets the door to open. She

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finds her son in a fetal position in the bed.

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His room's destroyed. There's a doll sitting on the bed.

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The little boy, visibly shaken, can only whisper Robert, did it.

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 4: You can over your eyes now.

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Speaker 6: Man, I was totally into that. I saw every bit

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of it.

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Speaker 4: Look, it's not uncommon for kids to have imaginary friends.

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Most kids do. It's definitely not uncommon for you to

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blame their imaginary friends for doing stuff that you wasn't

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supposed to do. Like like when I rode on a

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lamp when I was like six years old, even though

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I was the only one in the house that could

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write as far as the kids go, and I blamed

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my imaginary friend. They weren't falling for it though I

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was pretty stupid.

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Speaker 6: I like, you said, you rode on a lamp. I'm

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like wrote, Okay.

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Speaker 4: Look, this is what kids do. They have imaginary friends.

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They try to stay out of trouble. So they say,

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whoever did? Most parents they'd used to usually kind of

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dismissed this because saying, you know, either child's got a

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great imagination or something of that, you know nature. But

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what really happens when your imaginary friend or in this case,

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a doll, begins to torment the child and terrorize anybody

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who lives in the household. This is the story of

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Robert the Dall.

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Speaker 6: Wow, Like I did like that?

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Speaker 4: So look, we did this before. This is this is

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the third episode of Hibberly Horror Stories. If you go

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back to Ricky and I did, I don't have to

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tell everybody if you listen to it. It was a little crude.

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There were some jokes in it that we will not

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rehash tonight, but we did kind of glance over it

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and not get as much into the story, which is

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what we're hoping to do tonight. If you listen to

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that version, we told basically one legend, and I'll gloss

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over that tonight so you can hear what that legend was.

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But what I hope to do is, just like with

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the Bobby Mackie deal, is get into more of the facts.

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So are we ready to get this thing rolling?

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Speaker 6: Let's go?

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Speaker 4: All right, So let's talk about the legend, the legend

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of Roberts Dog or something like this. In nineteen hundred,

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when Robert Eugene Otto's mother was about four months pregnant,

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she sent her husband to the Bahamas to bring back

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four servants to bring back to Key West, Florida, which

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is where their home was to obviously be Yeah, what's

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that makes sense? So I knew he was on top

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of it. Apparently her husband took a few liberties when

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with the servants because one of them was pregnant. When

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they got back, ooh that dog. Missus Otto was not pleased,

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to say the least, and she locked a pregnant servant

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in an outhouse and she kept her there for the

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duration of her pregnancy. Some people said nine months. I

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got a feeling that would have been less than that

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because she must Yeah, yeah, she was already pregnant when

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she got there. That's not her fault, so fukture in

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this outhouse. She would only feed her once a day,

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bread and water. The servant has the baby, but it

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died soon after from mount nutrition oh Man. Miss Otto

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then released the servant, but then forced her to start

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caring for her new baby, Robert Eugene Otto. That's not nice,

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Well it's not, but the servant fell in love with Robert.

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She raised him just like she would her own kid.

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And I would think that she lost her kid and

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now has this baby that she can raise, then she

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probably it was a good replacement for her. She raised

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the child so much as her own that she even breastfeedting.

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Speaker 6: I had a feeling you were going to say.

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Speaker 4: That when Robert was four years old, there's an event

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that took place that would change everything for him. His

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entire life would be hinished on this event. See miss

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ottil walked into the backyard one night and she witnessed

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these four servants from the Bahamas practicing Santaia. Now, if

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you remember we talked about Santa Ria being basically like

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a blend of different religions, but most people will think

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of it more like a voodoo type ritual. This ritual

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involves cutting off the heads of chickens and stuff like that,

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and that's kind of what she walked out on. She

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starts seeing them doing stuff with chickens and stuff like that,

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and she just flipped out. She demanded that all these

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servants would be sent back to the Bahamas. Well, Robert's

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nanny was heartbroken because she's four years now, basically raised

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his kid and been around his family. She felt like

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that she was completely being scorned, was being mistreated, and

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she wanted to, I guess, get a little bit of

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revenge on the family. So she made a doll to

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get the Robert. Now, Robert used to wear a sailor

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shit all the time, and Robert also had a stuffed

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animal that was a little lion. So this doll was

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made about a little over three foot tall, which you

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can imagine at four years old, that's about the same

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size as Robert. So it was life size. She had

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a sailor's suit on it, and she had a little

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stuff lying that it was holding, so it was like

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a perfect replica of Robert.

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Speaker 6: So she was doing the ritual with the other guys.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well I don't know if there were guys or Yeah,

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she was part of it. That was their religion. But

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I guess miss Otto hadn't been a part of any

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of this stuff until she just happened to walk out

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and see it. And it's like a doser reality for now.

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She made this doll, but supposedly she put a voodoo

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type curse.

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Speaker 3: On the doll.

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Speaker 4: And it's like I said, that's the legend of how

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Robert inherited a doll. Now, there's lots of stories about

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how Robert actually got the doll because the story's been

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passed down from family member to family member through several

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several years. It was actually given to Robert by his

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grandfather after a trip that he made to Germany. Now,

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if you remember, we've talked about this before, because the

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story I had always heard before doing more research was

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the story we just talked about. He got it from

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the servant that was from the Bahamas. Then we were

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watching the Lord TV show, if you remember, and it

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said that his aunt gave it to him, sent it

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to the mail. Because I remember we were talking in

333
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about Well, that's completely different what I've heard. The story

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00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,079
that we found out is true is that his grandfather

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gave it to him, And I'll tell you a little

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more later about how we know that's true. So it

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was given to him by his grandfather after trip to Germany.

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Robert is kept today at the Fort West Martello Museum

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in Key West, Florida. Their research found out that it

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was never intended to be a doll to begin with.

341
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It was made by a company named the Stife and

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was part of a clown or a court gesture display

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like that would be kept in their store window. So

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I don't think, I don't even know if it was

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even meant to be for sale. But his grandpa saw it,

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he liked it, and he went ahead and shipped over.

347
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,319
So let's talk about Robert the doll as far as

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we know where he came from. Now, what's he made of?

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Robert's one of a kind, handmade doll, created around the

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nineteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. He's forty inches tall and

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he stuffed with a wood wool known as excelsior. You've

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heard of excelsior. It sounds like a drink.

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Speaker 6: Mike doncha selser something like that.

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Speaker 4: I guess maybe he's dressed in a sailor suit, as

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we talked about, but that sailor suit did not come

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with the doll, and all the research tells us that

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that was probably Robert Eugene's autos clothes. The little boy.

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It was probably his sailor suit, and they it on

359
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the doll because it just happened to be about the

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same size. The doll's face is vaguely human. It's a

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weird look to it. It's got kind of a nub nose,

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and it's got a smirk that's on his face, and

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it's got these little brown nicks that are kind of

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like scars all over it. His eyes are beady and black,

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and he's holding a stuff line as we spoke of.

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But apparently that stuff line was already what he came with,

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not put there because that's what Robert.

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Speaker 6: I feel like I have to stop you because I

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feel like I'm really lost. Okay, Okay, So the lady

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made the doll and put a hex on it.

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Speaker 4: That was the legend.

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Speaker 6: The legend. How did the doll get to the to Grandpa?

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I think I missed it.

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Speaker 4: It didn't the grandpa bought the doll in Germany and

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gave it to Robert.

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Speaker 6: So all that stuff you just told me about the

377
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Heck's and all that was not true.

378
00:20:56,759 --> 00:20:59,759
Speaker 4: Yes, thus me saying how he actually got the doll

379
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was from his grandpa.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I knew that, but I guess I was thinking

381
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that it was it got to grandpa somehow. Okay, go ahead, sorry,

382
00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:07,640
you're fine.

383
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Speaker 4: So but you bring up an entering point though, just

384
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because just because the story of the origin was wrong

385
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doesn't mean the rest of the story we're going to

386
00:21:16,759 --> 00:21:18,880
tell you is wrong, because the rest of the story

387
00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:23,799
is as much factual as we can do. Robert the

388
00:21:23,839 --> 00:21:27,160
Doll is known for having a turbulent and we'll skits

389
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,400
will say malicious pass, but it didn't start out that way.

390
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So in the beginning things seemed a little more innocent,

391
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,640
like any boy with a brand new toy. Robert Eugene

392
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,599
Otto took the doll everywhere he went. Some say that

393
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,839
Robert was four when he got the doll, but I've

394
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,559
seen other stories it said he was seven or eight

395
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,759
years old, but we'll stick with four years old. Regardless,

396
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,839
the doll was as big as he was, so that

397
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,079
doesn't change things. Now, Robert was often heard whispering to

398
00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,400
this doll, no big deal. But when this really deep

399
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,319
voice was heard answering back, that's when things started to

400
00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:07,480
get kind of strange. So it was about that time

401
00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:11,960
that Robert changed his name to Eugene or Gene, which

402
00:22:12,039 --> 00:22:16,079
is his middle name, because the doll's name was now Robert.

403
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:18,880
So you follow me on this, and now they were

404
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,200
both It was just Robert was the kid, but he

405
00:22:22,279 --> 00:22:24,839
decided to name the doll Robert, and he changed his

406
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,759
name to Gene. So as time moves forward, the story

407
00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:33,720
became stranger. So this dolls started to have somewhat of

408
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,720
a hold on Eugene. We'll say he'd had these violent commotions.

409
00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:42,319
I mean, you could be hearing these things from Eugene's

410
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,720
room on a nightly basis. Toys would be ripped apart,

411
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,759
furniture overturned, and when they got into his room, Eugene

412
00:22:50,839 --> 00:22:54,240
would always be on the bed, cowering in fear. And

413
00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:57,279
the answer was always the same, Robert did it.

414
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 6: So this only happens at night.

415
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 4: But at this point, yeah, as you can imagine, his

416
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,839
parents would only take so much of this crap. Robert

417
00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:10,920
the doll was banished to the attic. Now there was

418
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,119
an aunt that was the one that actually put him

419
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,200
up in the attic, and the story goes that she

420
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,400
died later the same night after putting him in the attic.

421
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Speaker 6: What the same night? Yeah, wo homie, don't play.

422
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 4: Apparently not, so they had servants. Still, servants would arrive

423
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,920
and promptly quit because of hearing the doll giggle and

424
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,759
moving around from the attic. They would hear footsteps and

425
00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:36,160
stuff like that. So it freaked him out. So it's

426
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,440
kind of hard to keep some help. So as Jane

427
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,200
got into his teenage years, he became even closer to Robert.

428
00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:44,400
Now you would think this would be the exact office.

429
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,599
You get a loader hanging out with people.

430
00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:47,559
Speaker 6: Play with your doll.

431
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he did because Gene didn't have any friends.

432
00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:55,279
Robert was his only friend. He'd walk around in the

433
00:23:55,319 --> 00:24:02,400
streets of Key West holding Robert as a teenager. When

434
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,440
Eugene was about nineteen, his family moved to France and

435
00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:07,960
guess who got left behind?

436
00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:09,039
Speaker 6: They did not?

437
00:24:09,599 --> 00:24:11,279
Speaker 4: Did he left Robert in the attic?

438
00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:12,759
Speaker 2: Well?

439
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 6: What in Gene not taking? I don't know, do you think?

440
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:21,039
Speaker 4: Well, sure, I'm sure he was forced not to take him.

441
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,279
But that is an interesting question that I really didn't research,

442
00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:26,640
because you would think, as addicted as he was to

443
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,279
this doll, that he probably would throw a fit about

444
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:30,079
him not leaving.

445
00:24:30,319 --> 00:24:30,599
Speaker 6: Right.

446
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:36,839
Speaker 4: So they get over to Paris, and Robert became a

447
00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:41,000
completely different person. He became very social, he began painting,

448
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,359
and he met a woman named Anne, and they eventually

449
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,839
got married. Oh so, what a big difference for Robert.

450
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:50,799
Speaker 6: He changed his name back.

451
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 4: No, I said that, because hell, I can't keep the

452
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:55,960
story straight. Eugene, what a big He still kept his

453
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:02,400
name Eugene with Eugene's parents gave him quite the nice

454
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,480
wedding gift. They gave him the house in Key West,

455
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,960
so they moved back. Was not the parents, you know, Eugene.

456
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:16,799
Eugene and Anne moved back very in Key West. Shortly afterwards,

457
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:23,519
Eugene finds Robert in the attic and didn't like Robert

458
00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:31,279
the doll at all. And she could see him move, laugh,

459
00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:38,359
and just an odd feeling about so, in her opinion,

460
00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:41,519
there was something freaky about this doll. She didn't like it.

461
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,519
On the other hand, Eugene picked right back up where

462
00:25:46,519 --> 00:25:50,000
you left react. Oh, it's just like not even like

463
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,240
they'd left. I mean, he's back to spending all his time.

464
00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:55,720
So and demanded that the doll be sent back to

465
00:25:55,759 --> 00:26:00,440
the attic. Well, after hearing furniture moving and foots steps,

466
00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:02,039
she became kind of scared.

467
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, would do.

468
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:09,319
Speaker 4: Now. Eugene, on the other hand, said that Robert told

469
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,359
him that he was not going to stay in the

470
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,319
attict and he demanded to be moved to a room

471
00:26:13,319 --> 00:26:17,519
of his own. So, being a good little boy and

472
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:20,839
doing what he's told, Eugene takes Robert, gets him out

473
00:26:20,839 --> 00:26:23,119
of the attic and he puts him in his own room. Now,

474
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,960
this is one of those houses that has a turret.

475
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:27,599
As we discussed before, it's kind of a castle looking

476
00:26:28,599 --> 00:26:31,880
rounded room, and that's the room that became Robert's room.

477
00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:35,880
Eugene made a small bed for him, He made furniture

478
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,240
that was scaled the size for Robert, so he'd like

479
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,200
like a little couch and stuff like that and there.

480
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,279
But primarily he would prop him up in the windows,

481
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,480
and school kids would go by there and they would

482
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,640
swear that they would see Robert moving in the window,

483
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,119
and that sometimes he would disappear and then reappear like

484
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,880
he walked away and then came back to the windows.

485
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,599
So little kids are freaking out out. But Eugene himself

486
00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:04,799
started spending all of his time in that turret room,

487
00:27:05,599 --> 00:27:11,079
and Robert became right back to being his number one fascination.

488
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,119
So he would spend this is where, this is the

489
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,880
room that he chose to do all of his painting

490
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,079
ad and like I said, he became a pretty accomplished

491
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,400
painter throughout and even we're going to find out even

492
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,799
some architecture and stuff that he responds with. This guy

493
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,119
was kind of a genius when it came to art.

494
00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:33,240
So Ann said that Eugene would show hatred towards her

495
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,400
and be real angry and lash out, and then he'd

496
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,079
go right back to normal, kind of like what you

497
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,000
would think of people being bipolar or something today. But

498
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,799
she one hundred percent blamed the doll that this doll

499
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,240
was causing him to do that. Even if it wasn't

500
00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:54,559
physically you know the case, she at least felt like

501
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,680
that Eugene thought in his mind that that was the cause.

502
00:27:58,039 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 6: So then she got sick of it and left.

503
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 4: Well, no, that didn't happen, but she did have a

504
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,079
situation where she was out by the outhouse and she

505
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,599
was shoved into it and locked in it for like

506
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:12,799
three days.

507
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:13,839
Speaker 6: Who did that?

508
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 4: Well, Eugene did it. But guess what he said, Robert it.

509
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 6: Oh he blended on him.

510
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, Robert did it. Robert did it. So Jene continued

511
00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:29,240
to live in that house and have a super tight

512
00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:32,480
bond with Robert all the way up until nineteen seventy

513
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,119
four when he died. Now, Ike, remember Jane was born

514
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,279
in nineteen hundred, so he was like seventy three seventy

515
00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:43,880
four years old when he died, and had that doll

516
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,839
for the majority of his life with that kind of

517
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,480
a weird bond, I mean crazy, Like I said, even

518
00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:52,759
as an old man, he would walk down the streets

519
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:56,359
and stuff with this doll. He was seventy three years old.

520
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,279
He died in a tourt room with Robert the Doll present.

521
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,200
There are rumors I don't know how true they are,

522
00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:06,839
but there are rumors and legends out there that when

523
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,119
they found his body, that Robert the dall was on

524
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,039
top of him with his hands around his throat. That's

525
00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:16,200
not funny, I see. I try to make that all

526
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:22,119
dramatic and shit, and you start laughing.

527
00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 6: Well, what happened to Anne?

528
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,599
Speaker 4: Well, that's a good question because An seen this as

529
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,720
I guess, well, not payback. But she was still married

530
00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:34,759
to him and everything, so she was she was like,

531
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,319
she decided to sell the house and she sold it

532
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:40,880
to a woman by the name of Myrtle. I think

533
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,799
her name is Ruder r e U t e r Myrtle.

534
00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:52,319
Ruder sound like rot. So she sells the house. When

535
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:56,079
when Myrtle bought the house, guess what she also got.

536
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,359
Speaker 6: It comes with a really cool Doll's.

537
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,279
Speaker 4: Exactly what it was. She got Robert the doll because

538
00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:05,599
Anne left at the house because Anna wasn't about to

539
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:11,319
take it anywhere. So Myrtle confirms some of the Robert

540
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,799
stories out there. She said she would often find Robert

541
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,440
in a completely different room than she left him at

542
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,920
visitors to her new home, which is now called the

543
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:25,440
Artist House because he was an artist. So that's what

544
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:26,759
the name of the home is. It's a bed and

545
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:28,799
breakfast now, by the way, so I don't know if

546
00:30:28,839 --> 00:30:30,880
it's a bed and breakfast, but you can rent rooms

547
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,119
the hotel room, So how cool would that be? No, well,

548
00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:38,839
we're going I don't think. Well, the dolls not in

549
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:43,200
the room. We'll discuss that else. He's in the museum.

550
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:49,640
So visitors to her new house, Myrtle's house, didn't like

551
00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:53,559
Robert at all, and she found out the same thing

552
00:30:53,599 --> 00:30:56,240
from them, that he would appear and just disappear at will.

553
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:01,039
So she and her visitors also claimed that his smirk

554
00:31:01,599 --> 00:31:05,640
on his face would change when Eugene was being talked

555
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,799
about in a negative way. In nineteen ninety four, Myrtle

556
00:31:09,839 --> 00:31:14,319
donated him to the Fort East Martello Museum in Key West, Florida,

557
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:20,000
where he resides the day. Now, if you know anything

558
00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:24,880
about Robert the Doll, you know that he is locked

559
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,960
in a glass case down there, and he's got all

560
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:33,119
kinds of rumors and stuff attached to him. And we're

561
00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:35,480
going to talk a little bit about some of those rumors.

562
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,240
Interesting fact, though, the museum that you donating to, the

563
00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:46,599
Fort East Martella Museum, was designed by Eugeneatto. Oh, so it's.

564
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,079
Speaker 6: Almost like they're still together.

565
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 4: Almost like they're still together. So I thought that was

566
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,559
pretty cool. Now, as soon as Robert moved into the museum,

567
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,839
he goes He didn't start off in the glass case.

568
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,839
He earned that. He worked his way into the class

569
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,720
case because the museum staff noticed a change of energy

570
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,880
as soon as Robert arrived. Now, when he first got there,

571
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,880
he wasn't initially put on exhibit, but word got out

572
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,759
that he was there, and people was just started showing

573
00:32:13,839 --> 00:32:18,400
up when they heard that he was there. So eventually

574
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,759
he was put on display, and cameras and electronic devices

575
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,880
started malfunctioning in his presence.

576
00:32:25,359 --> 00:32:26,799
Speaker 6: Oh man.

577
00:32:27,079 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 4: Soon people started sending letters and they were addressed to

578
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:37,319
Robert the Doll. So when these letters started showing up,

579
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,319
they would museum staff would open them up and they

580
00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:43,119
would find out that they were like asking forgiveness to

581
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:49,559
the doll for being disrespectful or behavior or not asking

582
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,319
to take a picture with him. So I guess people

583
00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:55,799
were taking pictures and stuff with him, and they started

584
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:59,680
having all these horrible rashes of bad luck and stuff happen.

585
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,920
Robert's been blamed for car accidents, broken bones, job losses, divorce,

586
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:06,720
and even death.

587
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 6: What what a herd.

588
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 4: And at the end of this, I'm going to read

589
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,359
you some of the letters that have been said cool,

590
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,160
but there's been hundreds upon hundreds, so we're not going

591
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,400
to read all that weird in the museum before Robert

592
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,359
was locked in his little glass house. There were reports

593
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,119
that the crew would walk into a mess in the museum,

594
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,279
just like in Robert's troum. It would be a complete mess,

595
00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:36,000
and Robert would have like dust and stuff on his

596
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:39,480
feet like he had been running around in there.

597
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,599
Speaker 6: That is funny.

598
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 4: There was one case where there was a hurricane that

599
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,160
did damage.

600
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 6: Like a whole hurricane. You mean, like a realin.

601
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh well not like a you know, Miami hurricane.

602
00:33:49,599 --> 00:33:51,880
It wouldn't like you, you know, Michael Irvin came in

603
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:59,599
there and started causing damage. I'm just saying the museum

604
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,160
suffered damage from the hurricane, and I think it ripped

605
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,519
some of the roof off. And when it did, it

606
00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:07,200
did a lot. There was a lot of you know,

607
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,360
stuff in there that got wet and stuff got moved around.

608
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 6: Oh, nothing happened to him.

609
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,599
Speaker 4: Well, Robert was actually up in a rafter, just kind

610
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:18,119
of hanging over one of the rafters, but he suffered

611
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:20,639
no damage at all. Well, a bunch of the other

612
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:22,199
stuff got wet inside the museum.

613
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 6: He ain't trying to get blowed away, apparently not. I

614
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:28,639
am so thirsty.

615
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,079
Speaker 4: It's a fantastic Sorry, y'all.

616
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 6: I've just drank a whole big glass of stuff and

617
00:34:35,039 --> 00:34:37,599
now I'm drinking Jerry. Sorry, go ahead, that's awesome.

618
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 4: So that affects the show none, but I'm sorry. People

619
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:45,119
know that you're thirsty. Now, we talked about the Artist

620
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:48,119
House being like a not a bed and breakfast, but

621
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,360
like rooms you can rent and stuff. Now the Artist

622
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:57,480
House is supposedly hanted, hanted, let's try that again, haunted

623
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,440
by the ghost of Anne who's trapped in the Torrent

624
00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:03,920
Room with Robert.

625
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 6: Wait, what yep?

626
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:12,159
Speaker 4: What yep? Supposedly she's trapped in the Torrent room. That's

627
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:14,280
what the ghosts have claimed to see her, and ghosts

628
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,280
also claim to see Robert in the Torrent room.

629
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 6: Man, what a bummer. It sucks to be her.

630
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 4: Well, I told you that we were going to tell

631
00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:30,559
some or read some letters. But what I want to

632
00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:32,679
do first before we read the letters, We're going to

633
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,519
end on that. But we've got our interview with John E. L. Tenney,

634
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:41,079
and I'm telling you, guys, I've mentioned just a couple

635
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:43,880
of shows before before I could even put this up here.

636
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,199
This guy you will love. If you've never listened to

637
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,559
him before, you're going to love this interview. It's one

638
00:35:49,559 --> 00:35:55,159
of my favorites. He is funny, he's smart, he's into

639
00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,559
every aspect of weird, and he takes pride in weird.

640
00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:03,039
That's what his lectures are called. And we'll get into

641
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:07,360
all that. But this guy is an expert on ghosts,

642
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,719
paranormal investigating UFOs. He's seen a couple of UFOs, He's

643
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,840
talked to a lot of famous people. He's performed with

644
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,360
Kid Rock. I mean, he's got so many different things,

645
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,800
and we talk about all of it. So let's give

646
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,880
this a listen and we'll come back and we'll play

647
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,400
some or listen to.

648
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,559
Speaker 6: We will we will read the stories. Since you can't

649
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:31,519
seem to spit it out today, we'll.

650
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 4: Read the Robert of Doll letters when we come back. Well,

651
00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:38,480
I have got a super special guest on tonight, and

652
00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:40,960
I'll be honest, I don't know how to introduce you.

653
00:36:41,079 --> 00:36:44,559
Most people, John, I would bring on and say, hey,

654
00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:48,119
they're a paranormal investigator, or they're an author, or you,

655
00:36:48,519 --> 00:36:53,320
my man, are literally a jack of all trades. So

656
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,639
let me just say John E. L. Tenney, and I

657
00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:01,360
think that says enough for most people. But let's be honest.

658
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:05,599
You literally are an author. You are a musician and

659
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:13,079
a painter, paranormal investigator, ufologist. I mean, you name it

660
00:37:13,559 --> 00:37:16,000
and you're into it, and I just don't see how

661
00:37:16,039 --> 00:37:17,599
you find a time to do all of that.

662
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: You know, it's thanks for It's absolutely true. Like, I

663
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,840
don't know how I do it either. It's just part

664
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,320
of my nature. I think it's because I drink so

665
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,199
much coffee, but I don't know. It was just it's

666
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,559
always since I was a kid, like, whenever anything seemed

667
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:36,239
exciting or new or weird to me, I needed to

668
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,880
explore it to its full depths. And that's the good

669
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,400
thing about high strangeness and paranormal phenomena is that you

670
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,000
know there's no end to the depth of it, so

671
00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:47,840
I can just get lost in it. And it's just

672
00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:50,719
everything with arguing. I was in punk rock bands all

673
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,760
in the eighties and nineties, and we have If you

674
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,039
want to talk you were talking before we went on

675
00:37:57,079 --> 00:38:00,239
the air about a George Bush story. If you want

676
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:01,960
to talk about kid rock, I've got a good kid

677
00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:02,599
rock story.

678
00:38:02,639 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 4: Well, it's funny you mentioned that because that's on my list.

679
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,880
Because I mentioned you were a musician and I saw

680
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,719
that you had performed with kid Rock and that's on

681
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,440
my list to ask, So let's go ahead and get

682
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:15,039
it out of the way.

683
00:38:16,159 --> 00:38:18,079
Speaker 2: Well it's not I'll tell you what. It's not going

684
00:38:18,119 --> 00:38:22,079
to be a good story. Bob and I do not

685
00:38:22,159 --> 00:38:26,239
get along very well. I met him. I was in

686
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,199
a punk rock band in the eighties early nineties and

687
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,440
he was strictly rap at that time, and we used

688
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,920
the same recording studio, so he needed someone to lay

689
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,039
down guitar tracks and I was there late one night

690
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:42,440
after my band recorded, and so I laid down some

691
00:38:42,519 --> 00:38:44,679
samples for him, and that's how we kind of met.

692
00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:49,119
And over the course of the next few years, i'd

693
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:52,159
play for him, play with him, and he would, you know,

694
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,800
come and sit and listen to my band and go

695
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,039
to our shows. And he got signed to a real

696
00:38:57,079 --> 00:38:59,519
small label in New York and they were looking for

697
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:01,519
a rock and role act, and so he asked me,

698
00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:03,000
do you guys want to be on this label? And

699
00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:06,000
I said, yeah, sure. And so he had a big

700
00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:09,440
studio in Michigan that he built his dad built. A

701
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:12,280
lot of people don't know, but Bob come. Bob is

702
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,239
a very wealthy person. He started off very wealthy, Like

703
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,280
there's this idea that he's straight out of the trailer park.

704
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,320
I know he says in one song, right, But he

705
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,280
was the richest kid. I knew growing up. He had

706
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,719
a forty acre order and servants, and so his dad

707
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,800
had him this studio built for him, and we went

708
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,880
there and we recorded a whole album. We ended up

709
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,559
breaking up, and then about a year later, Bob put

710
00:39:39,559 --> 00:39:43,360
out this record called Devil without a Cause. Vaguely familiar

711
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,960
with it, right, And that's that's really the album that

712
00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:50,559
made him famous, and it was where he went from

713
00:39:51,039 --> 00:39:55,800
rap to like rock rap, and all of the music

714
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,159
that you hear on that album is the rock and

715
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,880
roll album that band recorded.

716
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 4: Oh Wow.

717
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 2: And so then there was lawsuits that went on for years,

718
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,960
and friendships dissolved and fell apart, and it got pretty

719
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,199
hairy there for a while. And I think the last

720
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,079
time I talked to him, we just kind of nodded

721
00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:18,079
at each other. That was about probably about eight years ago.

722
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:20,159
We just nodded at each other and kept walking. We

723
00:40:20,199 --> 00:40:22,960
didn't even really say hello, wow.

724
00:40:23,079 --> 00:40:25,519
Speaker 4: And I never would have guessed that when I when

725
00:40:25,559 --> 00:40:28,559
I heard that you had performed with I didn't really

726
00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:30,639
think it was going to take that direction. But you're right,

727
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,800
that's not the story you were expecting here.

728
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 2: You know, it's strange. I mean, I don't harbor any

729
00:40:37,639 --> 00:40:40,079
will now it's a good story to tell, but we

730
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:44,159
were both young, and you know, obviously he's used it

731
00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:47,599
and become very successful, and I have no idea what

732
00:40:47,639 --> 00:40:50,440
he's like now. So you know, I can only I

733
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:55,280
only have these memories, these fleeting memories of the two youths,

734
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,280
Bob and John, sitting around in a room trying to

735
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,199
come up with songs. So I'm I mean, people think

736
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,639
I dislike him, but I really don't dislike anybody. I mean,

737
00:41:03,639 --> 00:41:05,320
we all grow up and change, right.

738
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,599
Speaker 4: I would hope, so I would hope. So I know

739
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:10,280
I'm a lot different than I was twenty thirty years ago.

740
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:14,119
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. I mean that, you know that ties

741
00:41:14,159 --> 00:41:17,480
into like my paranormal stuff. When I started off in this,

742
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:25,320
I was a gopher. My mentor specialized in political assassinations

743
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,840
of the nineteen sixties and seventies. I got my start

744
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,159
in conspiracy theory, and I never thought that I would

745
00:41:31,159 --> 00:41:35,480
be a researcher of all things that are strange, you know,

746
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:40,400
A bigfoot in UFOs and ghosts. I helped my mentor

747
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,519
Craig for years doing his lectures about JFK RFK, Malcolm

748
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:52,800
x MLK, the Kent State University shooting, Black Panther Party murders.

749
00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:56,320
But when I was eighteen, I had a kind of

750
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,480
freak heart attack and died and was dead for three minutes,

751
00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:04,320
almost three and a half minutes. And when I came

752
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,519
back and kind of recovered from that, I was like, Oh,

753
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:10,960
so I've been doing what Craig loves this whole time,

754
00:42:11,159 --> 00:42:14,079
and I loved it too. But I realized there was

755
00:42:14,119 --> 00:42:18,159
this whole other realm that I was able to explore now,

756
00:42:18,559 --> 00:42:21,800
you know, the realm of ghosts and psychic phenomena and

757
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:25,880
how that ties into UFOs and cryptozoology and what happens

758
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,679
to my consciousness once my biology dies, and that really

759
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,320
that started me on this track.

760
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 4: Well, let's backstep a little bit now. When you and

761
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,840
Chad Linberg were doing Ghodstalkers, one of the things that

762
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:42,400
was highly publicized was putting you two together, and what

763
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,800
you two had in common were both had near death

764
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,440
experiences that had got you on this path to the paranormal.

765
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,119
Can you explain to me a little bit about what

766
00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:54,360
you saw in your near death experience.

767
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,039
Speaker 2: Sure, it's hard, it's hard to talk about because what

768
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:04,480
I experienced was really nothing, and so to call it

769
00:43:04,559 --> 00:43:08,119
something is kind of does it a disservice. But when

770
00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:15,920
I died, I had an awareness of existing, but I

771
00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:21,639
was existing within infinity, and in infinity, there's nothing except

772
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:26,880
your awareness of being inside of infinity and being inside

773
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,519
of nothing, and you are nothing and you are infinity.

774
00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:33,320
It's this kind of very deep metaphysical idea that's hard

775
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,599
to get across because we just don't have words for it.

776
00:43:35,639 --> 00:43:38,000
You know, if you try thinking of an infinite string

777
00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:40,960
of numbers, your brain will just eventually shut off after

778
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,360
a couple minutes because you'll realize there's no point to it.

779
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,639
If you try to imagine nothing and you imagine black,

780
00:43:47,199 --> 00:43:51,599
you're already imagining something, so you're not imagining nothing, like

781
00:43:51,639 --> 00:43:53,719
you can't do it, so your brain just stops thinking

782
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,760
about it. Well, when I died, I experienced nothing in infinity,

783
00:43:59,199 --> 00:44:03,559
which is something that our biological brains just can't handle.

784
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,880
We just can't deal with it. So the biological brain

785
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,920
shuts down. And for me, it was a truly terrifying

786
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:15,079
experience because you know, I knew I was me, but

787
00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:18,440
I knew that, Like my first reaction when I became

788
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,199
this awareness inside of infinity, my first reaction was to scream.

789
00:44:22,639 --> 00:44:25,000
And then I realized I didn't have a mouth and

790
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:27,199
so I couldn't scream, and I wanted to cover my eyes,

791
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,280
but I didn't have hands, I didn't have eyes, And

792
00:44:31,079 --> 00:44:35,800
that went on. That experience went on forever because I

793
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,280
was inside of infinity.

794
00:44:39,199 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 4: That's exciting and depressing all at the same time.

795
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: I've heard people tell me that, you know, oh, it

796
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,920
seems like hell or some kind of you know, purgatory

797
00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:54,480
something like that. But the reality for me is that

798
00:44:54,599 --> 00:44:57,559
it was a very traumatic thing. It took me about

799
00:44:57,559 --> 00:45:01,159
a year to kind of cover from it, and I

800
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:03,559
went to therapy for years afterward, and I still have

801
00:45:03,679 --> 00:45:07,000
PTSD from it. Most people who have near death experiences

802
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:12,719
suffer some form of PTSD. But what I realized with hindsight,

803
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,880
and like we were just saying earlier, you know, we

804
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:19,119
change and grow. That kind of horrifying experience, what was

805
00:45:19,199 --> 00:45:23,320
horrifying to me at the time, turned me into a

806
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,639
much better person. It was a transformational experience that I

807
00:45:27,679 --> 00:45:30,960
look back on now with a lot of insight and

808
00:45:31,039 --> 00:45:34,119
happiness as to how it shaped me and molded me

809
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:36,119
to become the person that I was. So I think

810
00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:41,599
even though the experience itself sounds horrific, the end result

811
00:45:41,679 --> 00:45:46,400
of it was something that was unimaginably beautiful.

812
00:45:47,599 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 4: Here's what I like about that story. And people call

813
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,960
me weird too. I know you're one of those guys

814
00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:56,440
that if I brought on anybody else and said, hey,

815
00:45:56,519 --> 00:45:58,679
this guy is extremely weird, they would probably take it

816
00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:00,800
as an insult. But I'm sure you'd don't because you

817
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,079
like to label yourself that way. Yeah, and I'm a

818
00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:06,920
little on the weird side too. Like, I like the

819
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,960
fact that your story doesn't involve a white light everything,

820
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,920
and it seems like everybody has a near death experience.

821
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,960
You hear, Ah, there was a white light and then

822
00:46:16,199 --> 00:46:18,360
I saw everything was white around me, and then there's

823
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,880
all these ghosts that people see. They're always the lady

824
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,960
in white, And it just makes me think that the

825
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,800
afterlife is like a giant progressive insurance commercial or something,

826
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,599
and that's more scary to me than the alternative.

827
00:46:30,039 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there are three The three most common

828
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,440
near death experiences are number one is obviously the tunnel

829
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,119
of white light, and you've got you know, all your

830
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:43,920
relatives over there with balloons and puppies and candy, and

831
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,199
they're waving you in and it's gorgeous and wonderful. That's

832
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,239
the most heard about one, and that's because it's a truly, like,

833
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,760
immediately positive experience, so people are willing to talk about it.

834
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,000
So that's the one you hear all the time, the

835
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,360
one that you're talking about. The second one that you

836
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:05,760
hear pretty much most frequently after that first one is

837
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,800
people die and they are in the room where they die.

838
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,559
They're outside of their body. They're looking at the doctors

839
00:47:13,639 --> 00:47:16,760
resuscitating them, or they're floating on the top of the

840
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,079
ambulance that's taking them to the hospital, so they have

841
00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:23,880
an awareness, but they can see the experience of life

842
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:29,199
going on outside of their body, and even though it's frightening,

843
00:47:29,519 --> 00:47:32,920
it's weird and cool, so people talk about it. The

844
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:37,199
third experience is this void experience that I have. And

845
00:47:37,679 --> 00:47:41,440
because it's traumatic, because it takes years of kind of

846
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,440
therapy to get through, because some people never get over it,

847
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,960
you just never hear about people talking about it because

848
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,599
they don't want to revisit that trauma. But yeah, like

849
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:54,440
you were saying, the one you hear the most white

850
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,360
light puppies, it's shining and candy. Everything's great over there,

851
00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:02,039
come on through. Yeah.

852
00:48:02,079 --> 00:48:06,519
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, there's so many different versions. Like

853
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:08,599
you said, there's three different versions of that. And you've

854
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:11,239
got people that claim that they've went to hell and

855
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,239
you've got people that claim they went to heaven and

856
00:48:13,679 --> 00:48:16,800
were brought back. It's you know, it just kind of

857
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:23,440
makes you wonder how much is something that they feel

858
00:48:23,519 --> 00:48:26,760
like is real but really wasn't in some cases, Because

859
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,639
I think there are cases where people like yourself experience

860
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,679
something and there's no doubt about it. But then I

861
00:48:32,679 --> 00:48:35,280
do think there are people that think they experienced a

862
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,920
near death experience when it was probably more of a

863
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,920
dream type state. I mean, I don't know what your

864
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:41,559
thoughts are on that.

865
00:48:42,519 --> 00:48:44,679
Speaker 2: Uh, No, you're right, I mean there's a lot of people.

866
00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:47,440
I mean, whenever you have any kind of traumatic experience,

867
00:48:47,519 --> 00:48:49,639
the brain does a multitude of things. I mean one

868
00:48:49,639 --> 00:48:52,360
of the as a sidebar to this conversation, one of

869
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,960
the things, like you ask how I have time to

870
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,639
study stuff, well, like with near death experiences and neurobiology

871
00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:02,880
and chemistry for a person like me to have a

872
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,199
near death experience. The first thing I did was dove

873
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:10,159
into the research and made friends that were neurobiologists and neuroscientists.

874
00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:11,840
I wanted to know how my brain worked. I wanted

875
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,440
to know what had happened to me, And so you

876
00:49:14,519 --> 00:49:17,519
become a de facto expert on this thing. I mean,

877
00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:21,000
it's like if you get any in our normal, everyday lives.

878
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,599
If you get a red patch on your elbow and

879
00:49:23,639 --> 00:49:25,199
it doesn't go away for a week, you become an

880
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:28,599
expert on red patches on skin because you're constantly trying

881
00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:30,400
to figure out what it is. Well, the same thing

882
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,079
for me with near dead experiences, and a lot of

883
00:49:33,079 --> 00:49:35,960
it is perspective. Like you were saying, this experience, the

884
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,920
void experience that I had. If I had come from

885
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,599
a very religious background, if I was brought up my

886
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,239
whole life with some kind of very strict religious background,

887
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,639
I probably would tell people that I had gone to

888
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,920
Hell because that'd be my frame of reference. Or if

889
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,599
I experienced a tunnel of bright white light and my

890
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,440
relatives were there, I'd probably tell people I went to

891
00:49:56,519 --> 00:49:59,639
heaven because that would be my perspective on it. So

892
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,559
you know, you can have people experiencing, you know, a

893
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:08,400
few similar things, but because of their own unique personality

894
00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:11,800
and their own perception and awareness of reality, they call

895
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,079
it by what they're most familiar with.

896
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 4: Man, And that definitely makes sense, because, like you said,

897
00:50:17,519 --> 00:50:21,000
it's all about perspective. So let's let's change gears. I'm

898
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,239
gonna bounce all over the place. People know that when

899
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,480
I do interviews, I like to get to know the

900
00:50:26,519 --> 00:50:29,599
person and maybe discuss some things that you haven't discussed

901
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:32,000
openly a whole lot in these forums that you do.

902
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,440
One of the things that really draw me to you

903
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,559
as far as a connection is the fact that I

904
00:50:37,599 --> 00:50:40,159
am a stand up comedian former stand up comedian more

905
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,840
or less these days, and I know you are in

906
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,400
that Saint Ball Park. You do some stand up, You've

907
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,679
had some comedy podcasts, So tell me a little bit

908
00:50:49,679 --> 00:50:52,840
about what kind of comedy you like that sucked you

909
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,000
into that part that made you want to get on stage.

910
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,679
Who were some of your favorite comedians.

911
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,519
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, when I do stand up, I

912
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:06,559
am not a good comedian. I most of the time

913
00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:09,280
I do stand up comedy to keep my ego in check.

914
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,639
Like I know that my lecture is about ghosts and

915
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,199
UFOs and bigfoot and weird stuff. I know those lectures

916
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,599
will go fairly well. But I know that when I

917
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:20,400
get up on stage and try and do comedy, there

918
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:22,920
is a very great chance that I'm going to be

919
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,800
mocked and booed and shut out and dead silence and

920
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,159
just bomb like crazy. And that I think is really

921
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,280
good for me to say, like, listen, you're not You're

922
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,960
not good at some things, You're you're better at other things.

923
00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:39,920
Stay in your lane. But when I was growing up,

924
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:44,159
I loved Monty Python, Benny Hill. There was a comedian

925
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:49,159
named Dave Allen about He's missing a finger, missing a

926
00:51:49,199 --> 00:51:52,000
finger he used to and I loved his whole kind

927
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,519
of shtick of just sitting in a chair drinking a

928
00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:58,599
scotch and mixing it with his missing finger and telling jokes.

929
00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:02,159
I loved that stuff. Of course, you know, when I

930
00:52:02,199 --> 00:52:05,679
was growing up, I shouldn't have been, but I would

931
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,400
sneak up and watch like George Carlin specials when my

932
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:15,159
family finally got cable, and I think that's There were

933
00:52:15,199 --> 00:52:17,679
a couple of comedy albums that my mom had two

934
00:52:18,159 --> 00:52:21,840
and I'd listened to them as a kid, probably eight, nine,

935
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,079
ten years old, and I didn't know they were funny.

936
00:52:25,159 --> 00:52:28,199
I just knew that they were really strange. So, like,

937
00:52:29,119 --> 00:52:30,639
one of the albums that my mom had was The

938
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:34,639
Button Down Mind of Bob Newhart, and I used to

939
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,800
listen to it, and I was just fascinated because I

940
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,679
didn't as a kid, I didn't understand how it was funny.

941
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:43,119
And then you know, as I got older, I kept

942
00:52:43,159 --> 00:52:45,400
listening to that album, and then all of a sudden,

943
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,920
you start realizing the timing and what he's talking about.

944
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,440
You start catching more references because you're getting older, so

945
00:52:50,519 --> 00:52:54,159
now you're understanding what he's talking about, and that stuff

946
00:52:54,199 --> 00:52:57,360
was super fascinating to me. So that was those those

947
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,679
albums where Bob Newhart the Button Down Mine. There was

948
00:53:02,159 --> 00:53:07,079
one of the albums was Red Fox, which was like

949
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:11,159
straight like dirt and film like. It was probably the

950
00:53:11,199 --> 00:53:13,800
first time I heard someone just saying dirty words.

951
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 4: It was the exact opposite of Bob Newhart.

952
00:53:17,159 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely. And then I think the other one

953
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:25,519
was my dad had the I'm trying to think of

954
00:53:25,559 --> 00:53:27,519
what the name of the album was. It was called

955
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:31,119
like the First or the Greatest Astronaut and it was

956
00:53:31,159 --> 00:53:33,000
an album by Jose Jimenez.

957
00:53:34,119 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 4: Huh, that's a new one on me.

958
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,159
Speaker 2: There was a comedian his name was Bill Dana, and

959
00:53:39,199 --> 00:53:43,679
he had a character that I think was maybe supposed

960
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,440
to be from Mexico, and so it was just this

961
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,400
really kind of weird character that for an entire album

962
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,719
where he would just keep saying my name is Jose

963
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,719
Jimenez over and over and over again. And as a kid,

964
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,880
just his construct his voice made me laugh so hard.

965
00:54:03,119 --> 00:54:07,920
And so you know, I would do. I love to perform,

966
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:09,679
I love to stand up in front of people. I

967
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,920
love to play music. I love to do lectures and

968
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,880
that stuff. So it just kind of seemed natural. I

969
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,840
think the first time technically I ever did comedy. I

970
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:19,639
don't think I've ever talked about this on a show,

971
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:22,760
So I'm glad that this. I have no secrets. When

972
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,679
I was in sixth grade, I asked the teacher if

973
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,920
I could do in front of the class on a Friday,

974
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,760
the Cruel Shoes. Do you know what that is? No,

975
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:36,239
it's a Steve Martin bit and I used to have

976
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,079
My mom had a forty five of it, and it's

977
00:54:39,639 --> 00:54:46,239
just Steve Martin talking to a shoe salesman, and the

978
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,920
shoe salesman has a pair of cruel shoes, and the

979
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:51,920
teacher said I could do it for some reason, who

980
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,239
knows what was going on in that era, but she

981
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,639
let me stand up the last like three minutes of

982
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,199
class and do this entire Steve Martin monologue about the

983
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:05,400
cruel shoes, and when kids were laughing, it was no

984
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,400
better feeling like ever. I can remember it to this day.

985
00:55:11,199 --> 00:55:12,079
Speaker 4: It is a good feeling.

986
00:55:12,119 --> 00:55:12,559
Speaker 2: It just.

987
00:55:14,199 --> 00:55:16,519
Speaker 4: There's very few things in life that can just give

988
00:55:16,519 --> 00:55:19,920
you a natural high, but something getting on stage and

989
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,199
getting people to appreciate what you do, no matter what

990
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,519
it is, is one of those things that just can't

991
00:55:25,559 --> 00:55:26,079
be touched.

992
00:55:27,079 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 2: So, since you're a comedian too, you realize that people

993
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,760
who do comedy we are damaged people.

994
00:55:35,519 --> 00:55:38,079
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely.

995
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,079
Speaker 2: I mean there is something wrong with us to get

996
00:55:42,159 --> 00:55:44,440
up in front of strangers and know that a lot

997
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,559
of the time it is not going to go well.

998
00:55:47,199 --> 00:55:49,079
Speaker 4: Well, maybe not for you, It always went well for me,

999
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:54,920
But that's that's a better story. Also, I'm a composive liar.

1000
00:55:56,519 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 2: Let's do well. You're a comedian, Yeah, that's.

1001
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 4: Right, that's what we do we on age for the

1002
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:04,079
most part, and or where you hope you're lying. You'd hope

1003
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,400
if most of this stuff was true, think what a

1004
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,280
tragic life. But unfortunately that is the truth of most comedians.

1005
00:56:11,559 --> 00:56:14,760
Some of the best comedians had a tragic background and

1006
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:19,239
just used comedy to basically escape. And you know, it

1007
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,400
is sad to thank the Robin Williams of the world

1008
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,760
and Jeff Jenna, I mean not Jeff Jenna, but Richard

1009
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,199
Jenna and some of these others that have tragically, you know,

1010
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,960
committed suicide just because they just couldn't cope if they

1011
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:32,840
weren't on stage.

1012
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just trying to fill that hole with laughter.

1013
00:56:36,159 --> 00:56:39,239
You know, there's something in them that's missing, and laughter,

1014
00:56:39,519 --> 00:56:43,320
you know, filled periods of time, but eventually it just

1015
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:44,400
gets the best of them.

1016
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,280
Speaker 4: Well, we'll segue getting up on stage in front of

1017
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,199
a bunch of strangers to what you've spent a big

1018
00:56:50,199 --> 00:56:54,719
part of the last twenty eight years doing, which is lectures.

1019
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,079
We talked about the whole weird aspect earlier. How you

1020
00:56:59,159 --> 00:57:02,239
embraced that. Tell us a little bit about the lectures

1021
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,039
that you've been doing and how that started and how

1022
00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:07,119
that fits into your life right now.

1023
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I, as I said earlier, I used to

1024
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,400
help my mentor Craig do his conspiracy lectures back in

1025
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:20,960
the late eighties beginning of early nineties, and at some

1026
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:24,800
point someone asked me, I think it was probably in

1027
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,599
ninety someone asked me I was doing a JFK lecture

1028
00:57:28,679 --> 00:57:31,760
if I thought JFK had been killed because of what

1029
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,960
he knew about UFOs. And I didn't have an answer

1030
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:36,800
for them, and that felt really terrible. It was like

1031
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,360
bombing at comedy and so I went home and I

1032
00:57:40,599 --> 00:57:42,800
always liked weird stuff, and I had, you know, one

1033
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:47,559
or two books on UFOs, but nothing massive. And I

1034
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:51,079
went to the libraries and I started just reading, just

1035
00:57:51,239 --> 00:57:53,960
with a fury because I wanted to have this answer.

1036
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,440
And the more that I read about UFOs, you know,

1037
00:57:56,599 --> 00:58:00,679
names would come up that crossed over into my conspiracy lectures,

1038
00:58:00,719 --> 00:58:03,519
and that was super fascinating. And then there were a

1039
00:58:03,519 --> 00:58:06,280
few UFO books that led me into ghost books, and

1040
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,199
then there were some ghost books that led me into

1041
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:13,840
cryptozoological books. And I realized very early on that if

1042
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,639
I was going to do a lecture, sure I could

1043
00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:18,800
do a UFO lecture. Sure I can do a conspiracy lecture.

1044
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,360
I still do you know, in July around Roswell, I'll

1045
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,320
do a UFO lecture. In November, I'll do a Kennedy lecture.

1046
00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:29,880
But for me, I always wanted people and I still do.

1047
00:58:30,199 --> 00:58:34,480
I want people to diversify their weirdness. It's great to

1048
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,239
love ghosts, it's great to love UFOs, it's great to

1049
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,880
love cryptis. But I think that when you compartmentalize your

1050
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:47,440
weirdness or what you think is weird, you're missing a

1051
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:50,960
much bigger picture. So I started doing these lectures where

1052
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,880
I'll start off talking about ghosts, but by the end

1053
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:59,000
I might be talking about time travelers and reptilians and

1054
00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:02,639
the detrimental robots that live underneath the ground that control

1055
00:59:02,719 --> 00:59:04,840
us with mind controlling rays. Like I want to get

1056
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,519
as weird as possible and get the seeds planted in

1057
00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:13,119
people's heads that our reality is far stranger than we

1058
00:59:13,159 --> 00:59:16,639
give it credit for. I mean, we are these tiny

1059
00:59:16,639 --> 00:59:20,800
little beings in this seemingly endless cosmos, and we seem

1060
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:24,199
to have a shared reality. And millions of people for

1061
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,400
thousands of years have had been having the most bizarre

1062
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:33,800
experiences with no real explanation as to why, and we

1063
00:59:34,519 --> 00:59:38,360
think that it's either not real or it's outside of normal.

1064
00:59:38,519 --> 00:59:41,920
Like I have a problem with the word paranormal because

1065
00:59:42,039 --> 00:59:44,880
I think this stuff is going on, and paranormal would

1066
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,280
suggest that it's not normal. I think it is normal.

1067
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,320
We just don't know how to discuss it. We don't

1068
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:55,719
have the words for it. It's a philosophical conversation, at

1069
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:59,400
least in my mind, because we're talking about what happens

1070
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,360
when you die, is their life in outer space? Is

1071
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,960
there different types of life on our planet? These are

1072
01:00:05,079 --> 01:00:07,800
very deep philosophical questions that we should be having with

1073
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,920
each other. And whenever you have any kind of philosophical conversation,

1074
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:16,280
it usually starts with sitting down and saying, Okay, this

1075
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,960
is what this word is going to mean, and then

1076
01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:22,239
you can all be on the same page. But even

1077
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:25,079
in the paranormal community and the ghost hunting community, we've

1078
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:29,000
never sat down and said, what's a ghost? Because everybody

1079
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,480
you know that ghost hunts, they have a propensity to

1080
01:00:33,559 --> 01:00:37,000
believe in ghosts. But what I think of a ghost,

1081
01:00:37,039 --> 01:00:38,760
and what you think of a ghost, and what someone

1082
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,519
else thinks of a ghost, we're thinking of three different things.

1083
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 4: YEP, I can see that.

1084
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:47,639
Speaker 2: So we really need to talk to each other about

1085
01:00:47,679 --> 01:00:50,000
the weirdest parts of our lives, and even the things

1086
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,360
that might not seem so weird. I talk at my

1087
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:57,599
lectures a lot about synchronicities and coincidences, because you know,

1088
01:00:57,639 --> 01:01:00,440
I say this on a lot of podcasts, even at

1089
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,960
a lot of a lot of lectures. I tell people,

1090
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,519
you know, when something strange happens to you, when a

1091
01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:10,239
coincidence happens. The Dictionary definition of a coincidence is seemingly

1092
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,360
unrelated events which seemed to be related for no seemingly

1093
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,039
relatable reason. So I mean, the definition is kind of

1094
01:01:17,039 --> 01:01:20,880
a bullshit definition. What it happens is a coincidence is

1095
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:24,119
we don't know why that happened. And so if you

1096
01:01:24,159 --> 01:01:26,559
don't know why it happens, it should fall into the

1097
01:01:26,599 --> 01:01:29,679
realm of what we call paranormal phenomena. Why do those

1098
01:01:29,719 --> 01:01:32,679
things happen to us? They're just as strange as seeing

1099
01:01:32,719 --> 01:01:36,719
a ghost. The example I give it some of my lectures.

1100
01:01:36,719 --> 01:01:38,559
When I moved into my house, I was digging through

1101
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:41,360
an old box that I hadn't opened in fifteen years,

1102
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,159
and I found a high school yearbook in there, and

1103
01:01:43,199 --> 01:01:46,840
I opened it up and it was my freshman yearbook,

1104
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,119
and there was a note from this kid, Scott, and

1105
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:51,719
it was, oh, you know, I hope to see you

1106
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,199
next year whatever. And he and I had been friends

1107
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,119
my freshman year and then we were never friends again,

1108
01:01:56,159 --> 01:01:59,639
and I hadn't seen him and I don't even know

1109
01:01:59,679 --> 01:02:02,400
twenty years, twenty five years, but I thought him. I

1110
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,199
was like, oh, Scott, now I have the internet. I

1111
01:02:04,199 --> 01:02:06,400
can look him up on the internet, see what he's doing.

1112
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,119
So I made a mental note. I put the yearbook away,

1113
01:02:09,159 --> 01:02:10,760
I closed the box up, and I went to the

1114
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:13,880
grocery store and he was standing behind me in line

1115
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:14,920
at the grocery store.

1116
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:16,079
Speaker 4: That's crazy.

1117
01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is as strange as the two and a

1118
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,960
half seconds that you might see a kind of ghostly

1119
01:02:24,039 --> 01:02:27,360
form flick through the darkness. Yeah.

1120
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 4: And I get a lot of that too, you know.

1121
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:33,960
I don't know, it's not this exact same thing. But

1122
01:02:34,519 --> 01:02:36,840
I was talking to my wife, we were riding down

1123
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:40,480
the road, and I said something to her about just randomly.

1124
01:02:40,519 --> 01:02:42,840
I said, have you ever heard the song Running Bear

1125
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,480
Loves Little White Girl. It's an old song from the

1126
01:02:46,679 --> 01:02:49,679
late fifties, maybe early sixties. And she looked at me,

1127
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,920
like I was crazy and it's like, no, I've never

1128
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,599
heard that. And we were listening to this real old station.

1129
01:02:56,679 --> 01:02:58,239
I mean we were out in the middle of the

1130
01:02:58,239 --> 01:03:00,440
country and it was playing. That's what they played. They

1131
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:02,320
played these real old songs. That's what made me think

1132
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:05,079
of it. And don't you know, five ten minutes later,

1133
01:03:05,199 --> 01:03:09,760
that song came on yep, and that just like blew

1134
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,639
both of us away that things like that could happen.

1135
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's stuff like that that we need to pay

1136
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,159
attention to. It's strange. It's, like I said, it's just

1137
01:03:19,199 --> 01:03:23,639
as strange as hearing an EVP or getting a knock

1138
01:03:23,719 --> 01:03:26,239
when you're sitting alone in a dark room asking for

1139
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:29,719
something to knock. Like it's this little way that the

1140
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:33,320
universe says, Hey, I'm stranger than you think I am.

1141
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,119
I mean, we have people have this stuff happened to

1142
01:03:36,159 --> 01:03:37,920
them all day long, and they don't pay attention to

1143
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,400
it because they're oh, it's just a coincidence, doesn't matter.

1144
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,719
But if you paid attention to them, if we all

1145
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,199
really paid attention to them, we might notice that there's

1146
01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:49,159
something underneath it that might be trying to send us signals.

1147
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:52,519
Speaker 4: I got a couple of what I would consider to

1148
01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:57,159
be weird phenomenas that I don't know that you have

1149
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,119
an opinion on them, but I find it hard to

1150
01:03:59,119 --> 01:04:03,679
believe you wouldn't. But let's talk about Are you familiar

1151
01:04:03,719 --> 01:04:04,840
with the term death knock?

1152
01:04:07,039 --> 01:04:09,599
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Maybe if you explain it, well, no,

1153
01:04:09,679 --> 01:04:10,519
by a different name.

1154
01:04:10,679 --> 01:04:14,199
Speaker 4: It's mainly more of a German type tradition is how

1155
01:04:14,199 --> 01:04:16,920
it got brought in. But it's it's where if you're

1156
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,920
like in the middle of a sleep, or sometimes you

1157
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:21,679
don't have to be asleep, but if you get awoken

1158
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,920
by like three knocks that sounds like somebody knocking on

1159
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,760
the front of a say like a castle door, that

1160
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,800
big echoi sound that usually somebody passes right after that.

1161
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:33,679
Have you ever heard of that before?

1162
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,519
Speaker 2: I haven't. I heard there's a similar phenomena, you know,

1163
01:04:37,559 --> 01:04:38,360
the baby train.

1164
01:04:39,079 --> 01:04:40,119
Speaker 4: Now that one's new on me.

1165
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,039
Speaker 2: It's when you were talking about it. It sounds to me.

1166
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:46,639
There's a phenomenon that's called the baby train, which is

1167
01:04:48,119 --> 01:04:51,119
a man and a woman will be sleeping and they'll

1168
01:04:51,159 --> 01:04:53,679
wake up because they hear a train, and then since

1169
01:04:53,679 --> 01:04:57,320
they're awake, they'll have sex, and then usually a baby

1170
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:59,679
is produced out of that one time that they have

1171
01:05:00,119 --> 01:05:03,000
do they have that union. And so there's this phenomena

1172
01:05:03,039 --> 01:05:06,199
that's called the baby train because people for one hundred

1173
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,239
years talk about hearing this train. It woke us up

1174
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:11,039
in the middle of the night, and we didn't have

1175
01:05:11,079 --> 01:05:12,719
anything to do. We were trying to get back to sleep,

1176
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:14,920
so we just had sex, and then the woman ends

1177
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:15,920
up pregnant from that.

1178
01:05:16,199 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 4: Well, I was familiar of some trains that resulted in babies,

1179
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,079
but that was usually back in the sixties, so that's

1180
01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:27,719
something probably something completely different. What about spontaneous human combustion.

1181
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting phenomena. You know, we don't have

1182
01:05:33,559 --> 01:05:36,239
a lot of great reports about it. It doesn't seem

1183
01:05:36,239 --> 01:05:41,440
to happen so frequently that we've gotten any good data

1184
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,000
about it. One of the things that does seem to

1185
01:05:44,039 --> 01:05:47,159
be pretty similar about it is that the majority of

1186
01:05:47,199 --> 01:05:51,639
people who we think have spontaneously combussed have been alcoholics,

1187
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,920
which I think is interesting because there's this idea that

1188
01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:00,480
they've kind of become an alcohol soaked wick. And obviously

1189
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:06,320
we're around naturally occurring electromagnetic fields all the time, sparks

1190
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,280
on the on the floor, people smoke cigarettes, and so

1191
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,760
there's this idea that the alcohol has so saturated a

1192
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,639
person's body. You know, sometimes if you go out drinking

1193
01:06:15,679 --> 01:06:17,760
too hard, you can actually smell it on your skin

1194
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,760
the next day. And there's this idea that somehow or

1195
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,639
another slow burn starts inside someone and they actually combust.

1196
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:29,280
But I don't know. It's it's interesting to me just

1197
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,639
that stuff like that. Again. You know, Charles Fort, who

1198
01:06:32,719 --> 01:06:36,840
is one of the collectors of high strangeness and weird phenomena,

1199
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:41,079
studied stuff like that and never came to a good

1200
01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:43,480
conclusion on it. I don't really have any ideas of

1201
01:06:43,519 --> 01:06:45,679
what it could or couldn't be. I mean, for me,

1202
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:50,159
I allow the universe to be as strange as possible,

1203
01:06:50,199 --> 01:06:53,440
in the sense that maybe sometimes the universe just blows

1204
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:54,199
somebody up.

1205
01:06:55,800 --> 01:07:00,119
Speaker 4: And sometimes sometimes that should happen. Let me ask you this.

1206
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,000
You were on a good friend of ours, a good

1207
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:06,079
friend of the show Rob Christofferson's show Our Strange Skies

1208
01:07:06,119 --> 01:07:10,039
a couple of weeks ago, fascinating interview. In anybody listening,

1209
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:12,760
I'd advise you to go listen to that because you're

1210
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:14,559
gonna get a lot of different stuff than what we

1211
01:07:14,639 --> 01:07:19,480
cover on this one. But Rob, I asked him when

1212
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:21,599
he was on our show a couple of weeks ago,

1213
01:07:21,719 --> 01:07:24,480
the same question I'm going to ask you. You may

1214
01:07:24,559 --> 01:07:26,679
or may not have heard this, but there's a story

1215
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,880
that Jackie Gleeson was actually taken to an air Force

1216
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,840
base by Richard Nixon and showed aliens and it kind

1217
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:37,159
of messed him up. And this story came from Jackie

1218
01:07:37,159 --> 01:07:42,119
Gleeson's wife. After Jackie had passed, she put the story out.

1219
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:44,920
Have you ever heard that story, and if so, do

1220
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,280
you have any belief that that may have happened.

1221
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:54,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because Gleason and Nixon were friends, Like,

1222
01:07:54,639 --> 01:07:58,840
that's something we know that's true. But then you get

1223
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:02,880
into the whole nineteen seventy three, they take a late

1224
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,760
night drive to Homestead Air Force Base and that they

1225
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:12,440
see aliens. I really feel like in situations like that,

1226
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:17,720
First of all, I have this notion that presidents don't

1227
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,520
know about if there are aliens, presidents don't know about it.

1228
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,920
I feel like a president is someone who comes into

1229
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:29,840
office and at the most will be there for eight

1230
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:34,640
years and get all of the deep secrets, like they

1231
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:41,279
might get as sidetracked and scurious information that we get,

1232
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:45,199
like they might tell the presidents something keep them from

1233
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:47,800
thinking about it. They might even have fake aliens somewhere

1234
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:49,119
that they show them just so they can say, he,

1235
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,560
there's the aliens for you. But I don't really think

1236
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:55,399
that they would tell the president. And I don't think

1237
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:58,159
no matter how good a friends Nixon was with Gleason,

1238
01:08:58,279 --> 01:09:01,880
I don't think that he could have gotten the security

1239
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:05,039
clearance to get Gleason to see if there were actually

1240
01:09:05,119 --> 01:09:05,880
aliens there.

1241
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 4: That makes sense. Way to ruin a good story. Thanks,

1242
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:11,199
I like it, though.

1243
01:09:11,239 --> 01:09:13,319
Speaker 2: I mean, I would like to think that Jackie Gleason

1244
01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:17,359
saw aliens, but there's a lot of famous people who

1245
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:20,319
have seen aliens, just they don't have the You know,

1246
01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:22,399
they weren't friends with Nixon at the time. You think

1247
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,840
Nixon was good friends with Elvis too, You think Elvis

1248
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,680
would have a good Nixon took me to see aliens story.

1249
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 4: Well, with as many drugs as Elvis was on, I'm

1250
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,119
sure he saw a lot of stuff without Nixon's help.

1251
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:36,279
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true.

1252
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:40,359
Speaker 4: So we brought up Rob Christofferson's show, and I heard

1253
01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:41,800
you tell a couple of stories, so I want to

1254
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:47,119
give him credit for asking these questions. You told a

1255
01:09:47,159 --> 01:09:49,720
story about a couple of UFO encounters, and I want

1256
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:51,960
to know if you could tell us about that and

1257
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,359
then follow it up with your George Bush story.

1258
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:00,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, you know, I actually it's so strange to

1259
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,760
me to think. So the first time I saw something

1260
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:05,680
that I think I think was a UFO, I was

1261
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:07,960
working a midnight shift and I went out into an

1262
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,640
alley and it was a dark night, but a very

1263
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:14,000
bright moon, clear sky, and I was just smoking a

1264
01:10:14,039 --> 01:10:17,000
cigarette staring at the moon, looking at all the craters

1265
01:10:17,039 --> 01:10:21,119
and shadows on it, and something in the kind of

1266
01:10:21,319 --> 01:10:23,439
beneath the moon. Out of the corner of my eye,

1267
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:26,159
saw something just moving, and I didn't stop looking at

1268
01:10:26,159 --> 01:10:28,600
the moon. I just thought to myself, Oh, that's a

1269
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:33,000
really strange bird. And it kept going, and then I

1270
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,239
finally looked at it, and I thought to myself, that's

1271
01:10:35,279 --> 01:10:39,000
a really weird plane, and looked back at the moon.

1272
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:41,800
Then it kept coming across the sky and I looked

1273
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,520
back down at it and I thought, someone is flying

1274
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,560
a kite around here. That's really weird. It's late at night.

1275
01:10:48,239 --> 01:10:49,920
And then I looked back at the moon. And then

1276
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,399
right before it disappeared over the tops of the buildings.

1277
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:55,600
I had looked back at it and I was like,

1278
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:58,079
holy shit, that's a UFO, and then it was gone.

1279
01:10:59,239 --> 01:11:01,800
And the thing that fascinated me about it, and still

1280
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:04,199
does to this day, is that, as a person at

1281
01:11:04,199 --> 01:11:06,720
that time I was giving lectures about UFOs. I had

1282
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:11,000
already been studying UFOs for years by that time, and

1283
01:11:11,119 --> 01:11:15,720
here I am seeing a UFO and it was the

1284
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:18,720
last thing on my mind. It was either like this

1285
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:22,880
paradigm shift where my mind couldn't handle seeing something like that,

1286
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:25,840
or I really have talked about it my lectures before

1287
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:30,960
about someone having the technology to block you from realizing

1288
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,079
that you're looking at a UFO until it's too late

1289
01:11:33,119 --> 01:11:34,840
to see it, and then you only have this kind

1290
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:38,560
of wispy notion that you saw something weird. It was

1291
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:43,880
really strange. It was blacker than the sky, which is

1292
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:47,039
how I saw it, and as it passed over the city,

1293
01:11:47,079 --> 01:11:50,319
you could see just the slight illumination from underneath it

1294
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:52,840
from the city lights coming up on the bottom of it,

1295
01:11:53,479 --> 01:12:00,039
and no sound whatsoever, just a straight, slow glide. And

1296
01:12:00,199 --> 01:12:02,039
the funny thing, I don't think I said this un

1297
01:12:02,159 --> 01:12:04,359
robbed show either, but the funny thing was as soon

1298
01:12:04,359 --> 01:12:07,039
as I realized, Oh, my gosh, I think I saw UFO.

1299
01:12:07,119 --> 01:12:09,279
I ran back inside of my work and I called

1300
01:12:09,359 --> 01:12:11,680
the police station to ask them if anybody else had

1301
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:18,560
seen it. And it couldn't have been any more trite.

1302
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:20,960
The woman that answered the phone at the police station

1303
01:12:21,279 --> 01:12:24,399
said to me, no, we haven't got any other calls.

1304
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:29,640
Maybe it was a weather balloon. Nice, And I thought, oh,

1305
01:12:30,079 --> 01:12:36,079
come on, like she obviously knew UFO stories to give

1306
01:12:36,159 --> 01:12:40,119
that response, like she had watched an episode of Unsolved

1307
01:12:40,159 --> 01:12:44,359
Mysteries or Sightings or something, or read a book about

1308
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:47,920
Roswell to know that. Tell this guy it's a weather balloon.

1309
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:51,680
The next time I saw UFOI was it was on

1310
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:53,960
a busy street. Actually, it was the middle of the

1311
01:12:54,039 --> 01:12:57,479
day downtown, the city that I live. I was out

1312
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:01,079
having a break again, smoking a cigarette. This weird silver

1313
01:13:01,359 --> 01:13:04,520
teardrop came down out of the clouds and just hung

1314
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,479
over the street, and I was running up to people

1315
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:10,000
trying to get them to look at it, and for

1316
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,119
some reason, no one would look at it. And I

1317
01:13:12,199 --> 01:13:16,159
was kind of manically running down the street just saying like,

1318
01:13:16,399 --> 01:13:18,039
could you turn around and look at that? Just turn

1319
01:13:18,159 --> 01:13:20,520
look at that, just look up, and people would look

1320
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,760
at me and then think I was crazy, you know,

1321
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,199
So they just kept walking, but I couldn't get anybody

1322
01:13:25,239 --> 01:13:26,960
on the street to turn around and look at this thing.

1323
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:30,680
And finally, like it went back up into the clouds

1324
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:32,560
and I looked down about a block and a half

1325
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:34,560
and there was a girl standing on a corner and

1326
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,880
she was just like slack jaw, staring up at the sky.

1327
01:13:38,159 --> 01:13:39,399
And I ran down to her and I was like,

1328
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:41,279
did you see that? Did you see that? She was like, yeah,

1329
01:13:41,359 --> 01:13:43,600
I did. She's like, oh my gosh, I'm some glad

1330
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:45,600
somebody else saw it. I was trying to get all

1331
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,640
these people to look, and no one would look at it.

1332
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,600
And we just kind of sat there, and I told

1333
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,479
her that that's what I had been doing, Like I'm

1334
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:53,920
trying to get people to look at it. No one

1335
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:55,760
would look. Why wouldn't they look? And we just kind

1336
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:57,119
of stood there for a minute, and then what do

1337
01:13:57,159 --> 01:13:58,600
you do? You just go on with the rest of

1338
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:03,880
your day. And it just reinforced this notion that, you know,

1339
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:07,000
either people are too busy, or they just think everyone's crazy,

1340
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,800
or there's some type of phenomena that just keeps certain

1341
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:12,039
people from seeing it.

1342
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:17,279
Speaker 4: Well, and you know both of your situations right there,

1343
01:14:17,359 --> 01:14:19,399
you were outside smoking. It just made me wonder if

1344
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:21,640
it was actually a cigarette you were smoking, or maybe

1345
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:22,520
something else.

1346
01:14:22,399 --> 01:14:27,159
Speaker 2: Or I don't do any drugs well, caffeine and nicotine,

1347
01:14:27,159 --> 01:14:31,239
those are my two drugs and alcohol. But I mean,

1348
01:14:31,319 --> 01:14:39,439
that's it's really interesting to me that there is this phenomena.

1349
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:42,279
You know, one of the things when I encounter something

1350
01:14:42,399 --> 01:14:45,039
that seems strange to me, I start to research it.

1351
01:14:45,079 --> 01:14:47,600
And one of the things that's interesting is that in

1352
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:52,520
a lot of UFO cases, there are people who see it.

1353
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:55,039
I mean, they'll be in the same car and one

1354
01:14:55,119 --> 01:14:57,279
person will see it and the rest of the people

1355
01:14:57,319 --> 01:15:01,640
will refuse to look That someone will see something in

1356
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:04,159
a crowd of people and no one else will look

1357
01:15:04,199 --> 01:15:07,560
at it. And that's a repeating phenomena that happens in

1358
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,920
a lot of UFO cases that people just for some reason.

1359
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,840
Like I said, it seems like some people have some

1360
01:15:14,039 --> 01:15:17,159
type of block on them to where they don't want

1361
01:15:17,199 --> 01:15:20,960
to see it or they just don't know that they

1362
01:15:21,039 --> 01:15:22,920
can see it well.

1363
01:15:23,319 --> 01:15:26,640
Speaker 4: And that's something I was unfamiliar with until just now

1364
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,720
that that was even something that was happening out there,

1365
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,479
that some people just didn't see even being in the

1366
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,399
same car. Yeah, that's an odd phenomena.

1367
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 2: There's a lot of really weird stuff about UFOs that

1368
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,279
people for some reason, I don't know why, I talk

1369
01:15:42,319 --> 01:15:44,720
about everything at my lectures, but there's a lot of

1370
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:46,880
weird stuff that people talk about with UFOs that I

1371
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,920
never hear anyone talk about. There's a huge number of

1372
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:55,479
people who have experienced what they think is alien abductions

1373
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:58,479
or that they have some kind of close encounter of

1374
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,600
the third kind where they're actually see an alien, or

1375
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:04,039
they see a ship land and aliens get off. And

1376
01:16:04,039 --> 01:16:06,439
one of the things that never gets talked about it's

1377
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:10,479
because it's weird. I mean, the whole experience itself is weird,

1378
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:14,000
So to think that there's something weirder that isn't discussed.

1379
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,800
Something that happens in a great number of cases is

1380
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:22,560
that the person who experiences seeing an alien or being abductive,

1381
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,560
ban or taken on an alien craft, they also have

1382
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:32,000
a memory of seeing someone in some type of historical

1383
01:16:32,279 --> 01:16:38,760
military uniform, so like a French Revolution outfit on American

1384
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:42,840
Civil War outfit. This is something that happens a lot,

1385
01:16:43,199 --> 01:16:48,520
but because it's so strange, UFO researchers don't talk about.

1386
01:16:48,279 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 4: It, huh. I mean, like I said, that's all news

1387
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:55,680
to me. So I mean, that's just feel like we're

1388
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:56,680
breaking some ground here.

1389
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:01,159
Speaker 2: But this is I mean, like I said, that's why

1390
01:17:01,199 --> 01:17:05,079
I love weirdness. When I talk about you know, bigfoot

1391
01:17:05,359 --> 01:17:07,800
one of the things. You know, people go out into

1392
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:11,079
the woods, they see bigfoot. That's a massive experience, and

1393
01:17:11,119 --> 01:17:14,039
so they talk about seeing Bigfoot. But when you talk

1394
01:17:14,119 --> 01:17:16,840
to a lot of people who have had a bigfoot

1395
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,319
encounter and you drill down into their story and you

1396
01:17:20,359 --> 01:17:22,640
really sit down with them and get them to talk

1397
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:25,439
through the whole day, the whole night, whenever it was

1398
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:28,279
that they saw it, and you start hours before and

1399
01:17:28,319 --> 01:17:31,079
go to hours after, you know they saw this creature.

1400
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:33,640
A lot of the time when you talk to them,

1401
01:17:34,039 --> 01:17:37,600
they will talk about hearing a loud pop sound either

1402
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,960
in their head or physically outside of their body. They'll

1403
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:45,079
hear a loud popping sound. They'll see a bright flash

1404
01:17:45,199 --> 01:17:49,159
that's usually light green or dark green. But because they

1405
01:17:49,199 --> 01:17:52,880
see bigfoot, they don't think it's related and so they

1406
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:56,319
don't even talk about it. You'll hear somebody say, yeah,

1407
01:17:56,359 --> 01:17:58,039
I was out in the woods, and I was walking

1408
01:17:58,039 --> 01:18:00,760
through the woods and someone through a fire crack or something,

1409
01:18:01,239 --> 01:18:03,560
and then like fifteen minutes later, I saw Bigfoot. He

1410
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:05,920
was standing there, and then I tried to run after him.

1411
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:09,000
And then and you go, what about that firecracker? Did

1412
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,000
you find the person who threw that? No, it's just

1413
01:18:11,039 --> 01:18:13,319
the sound that I heard, like but they and they

1414
01:18:13,319 --> 01:18:16,479
don't realize that they're can maybe that has something to

1415
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:18,840
do with Bigfoot, you.

1416
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:21,199
Speaker 4: Know, it's it's funny. We were at Scarefest and I

1417
01:18:21,279 --> 01:18:23,199
was out back and I was talking to Steve Coles,

1418
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:27,199
and I brought up the fact because Steve's a very

1419
01:18:27,399 --> 01:18:31,199
well known, you know, bigfoot expert. Sure, and I brought

1420
01:18:31,279 --> 01:18:33,680
up to him, hey, what do you think about the

1421
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:37,119
fact that some people think Bigfoot could be an alien?

1422
01:18:37,399 --> 01:18:40,560
And the look that he gave me as he went

1423
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:43,840
into how that could not even be possible. But it

1424
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,920
was a fascinating conversation, and he had a thousand different

1425
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:50,279
reasons why there's no possible way that that could happen.

1426
01:18:50,359 --> 01:18:53,479
But I'm you know, I've heard more and more over

1427
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:55,760
the last couple of years of the theory that that

1428
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:59,600
that Bigfoot actually could be some type of alien incarnation.

1429
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 2: Well, see, that's what's weird is that you know. So

1430
01:19:04,119 --> 01:19:06,199
this is why I always I always said earlier, like

1431
01:19:06,279 --> 01:19:09,760
I want people to diversify their weirdness. Like Ufo people

1432
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:12,159
don't like to talk to bigfoot people. Bigfoot people think

1433
01:19:12,159 --> 01:19:15,000
ghost people are crazy. Ghost people think that UFO people

1434
01:19:15,039 --> 01:19:17,279
are crazy, like no one talks to each other, when

1435
01:19:17,319 --> 01:19:20,479
if we talk to each other, like Bigfoot doesn't have

1436
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:22,560
to be just one thing. It doesn't have to be

1437
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,199
just a large homini that's roaming through the forest. It

1438
01:19:25,279 --> 01:19:28,279
can be that, but there can also be other things

1439
01:19:28,279 --> 01:19:31,800
that again, because of people's perspectives, they don't understand what

1440
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:37,119
they're seeing. The original legends of Sasquatch are of a nature,

1441
01:19:37,199 --> 01:19:41,960
spirit and elemental, which is more closely related to ghosts

1442
01:19:42,039 --> 01:19:44,920
than it is to a giant ape walking through the forest.

1443
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:48,199
Now there could be both of those things. There could

1444
01:19:48,239 --> 01:19:52,439
also be biological scout ships. You know, there could be

1445
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:54,960
aliens that can exist on our planet. So they have

1446
01:19:55,079 --> 01:19:59,520
created something that can breathe air and eat our vegetation.

1447
01:20:00,199 --> 01:20:04,319
They set it down to gather information and that can

1448
01:20:04,399 --> 01:20:06,720
exist too. So I mean, when you know, a lot

1449
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:08,880
of times I'll talk to people, I know a lot

1450
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:14,199
of bigfooters who you know, it's only a large ape,

1451
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:19,119
it's only a relic cometed, it's only a physical creature.

1452
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:23,239
I mean, that's limiting themselves on how they're thinking about

1453
01:20:23,239 --> 01:20:26,920
this phenomena. It's fine to want to find that one

1454
01:20:27,039 --> 01:20:29,720
aspect of bigfoot. I have no trouble with that if

1455
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:32,439
that's what you want to do. But what I want

1456
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:34,439
to do is I want to find out what all

1457
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:37,840
of these different experiences are and how they're related.

1458
01:20:39,079 --> 01:20:42,640
Speaker 4: Well, and like I said, that's when you put yourself

1459
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:45,199
in that little box and you don't think outside the box,

1460
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:46,720
you really do limit yourself.

1461
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:50,680
Speaker 2: Sure. I mean in Michigan we have what's called the

1462
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:54,640
dog Man, which is a giant, upright walking dog. Right now,

1463
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:58,680
if you were out in the woods and you saw

1464
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,840
a seven foot hairy thing moving through the woods and

1465
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:05,439
you had never heard of dog Man before, you would

1466
01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:07,520
tell people that you saw bigfoot. Yep.

1467
01:21:09,199 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 4: Yeah. And there's all that stuff that you know, the

1468
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,680
Beast of Bray Road, the dog Man, you know, all

1469
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:19,640
these werewolf type sightings you know throughout Wisconsin. And but

1470
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:22,960
you're right, they're probably you know, if people are seeing

1471
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:25,560
these things, they're probably all from the same family or

1472
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:26,319
the same thing.

1473
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:32,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, or I mean again, they can be different but

1474
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:38,520
similar enough to confuse us from our own individual perspectives.

1475
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:41,199
I mean, if you maybe there we don't know what

1476
01:21:41,239 --> 01:21:44,239
aliens look like aliens, there might be a race of

1477
01:21:44,279 --> 01:21:46,800
aliens that's eight feet tall and covered with hair. I

1478
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:50,840
mean that's a possibility. And so if you saw an

1479
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:54,199
eight foot tall, hairy creature and you didn't know what

1480
01:21:54,239 --> 01:21:57,199
aliens looked like, but you've heard stories about bigfoot, you

1481
01:21:57,239 --> 01:21:59,880
will call it bigfoot. Yep.

1482
01:22:00,079 --> 01:22:01,600
Speaker 4: I mean that makes sense. I mean it's like it's

1483
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:04,039
like we talked about earlier. It's all about the perspectives.

1484
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:05,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.

1485
01:22:06,279 --> 01:22:08,199
Speaker 4: So let's jump on a couple of things I do

1486
01:22:08,319 --> 01:22:10,199
want to touch. Like I said, there's so many different

1487
01:22:10,279 --> 01:22:14,239
aspects of your career that I find amazing, and I

1488
01:22:14,319 --> 01:22:17,520
love the fact that you've been on all these shows

1489
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,600
that I've loved. Sightings was one of the first real

1490
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:24,560
shows out there that talked about the paranormal and stuff

1491
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,119
like that. You know, that's incredible, did some of it,

1492
01:22:27,199 --> 01:22:29,720
but Sightings was the big one for me growing up.

1493
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:31,920
I loved that show and I love the fact that

1494
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:35,239
you run it and Unsolved Mysteries, just to name a

1495
01:22:35,279 --> 01:22:40,800
couple that you've had the privilege of working on. Tell

1496
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,920
me a little bit about how you got started into

1497
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:45,760
those aspects of your career.

1498
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:50,760
Speaker 2: So when I started to go to college, I thought

1499
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:54,840
that I would be a history teacher that specialized in folklore.

1500
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:59,720
And so I was nearing the beginning of my second

1501
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:04,720
year and I got a call from NBC. They needed

1502
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:07,399
a researcher for this show called Unsolved Mysteries. They were

1503
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:12,960
at the time mostly murder mysteries and missing persons stories,

1504
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,079
and they were going to move into a direction of

1505
01:23:15,359 --> 01:23:18,960
more paranormal ghost tauntings, that type of thing. And they

1506
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:20,880
asked if I want to be a researcher on the show,

1507
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:23,479
and I said yes, And I never really kind of

1508
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:28,680
looked back after I left Unsolved. There in the mid nineties,

1509
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:31,720
early to mid nineties, there was all of a sudden,

1510
01:23:32,119 --> 01:23:34,920
a lot of documentaries and some shows being done and

1511
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:38,239
who needed research. And since I had already this kind

1512
01:23:38,279 --> 01:23:42,239
of provenance with Unsolved Mysteries, I'd get kind of snatched

1513
01:23:42,319 --> 01:23:45,039
up by new shows. And that's where sightings came in.

1514
01:23:45,199 --> 01:23:47,680
You know, they needed someone who could do the research

1515
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:49,880
and was still kind of young enough and hip enough

1516
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,720
to get it and give them some weird information if

1517
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:56,279
you would have told me. Though, Like I thought for sure,

1518
01:23:57,279 --> 01:24:00,399
by the time the late nineties came around, I thought

1519
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:02,920
my career was kind of debt. I thought I'd just

1520
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:06,479
be doing lectures to fourteen people in a library for

1521
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:10,399
the rest of my life. But all of a sudden,

1522
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:12,640
in two thousand and two, two thousand and three, ghost

1523
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:17,199
shows came around, and now you've got all of these

1524
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,720
shows that need research, and here I am at the time,

1525
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:22,520
you know, I was only by that time, I was

1526
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:27,319
only thirty three, and I had file cabinets from you know,

1527
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:30,560
fifteen years of doing research, and so all of a sudden,

1528
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:34,760
I wind up working on a lot of the shows.

1529
01:24:35,399 --> 01:24:38,760
What's funny is, in the early two thousands, working on

1530
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,479
television shows, I didn't know if they were going to

1531
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,279
suck really bad or be really good. So a lot

1532
01:24:44,319 --> 01:24:45,680
of the time, when you work on a show, they'll

1533
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:47,680
have you sign a non disclosure agreement so that you

1534
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:50,800
can't talk about the television show. I would actually have

1535
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,199
the television show sign a non disclosure agreement so they

1536
01:24:53,199 --> 01:24:55,279
couldn't say I worked on it, because I didn't know

1537
01:24:55,279 --> 01:24:58,000
if the show was going to suck or not, and

1538
01:24:58,039 --> 01:25:00,399
if it sucked, I didn't want my name attached to it.

1539
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,159
You know, if they were going to pay me, that's fine,

1540
01:25:02,159 --> 01:25:06,239
but don't put my name in the credits. And then eventually,

1541
01:25:06,319 --> 01:25:10,119
you know, people in the television industry they say, you know,

1542
01:25:10,199 --> 01:25:12,640
do you want to be on camera for this next one?

1543
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:15,359
And at some point you just say yeah and do

1544
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:18,359
it and see what happens. And the majority of the

1545
01:25:18,359 --> 01:25:22,960
time it's not great, but it makes you makes me

1546
01:25:23,279 --> 01:25:25,960
able to speak to larger and larger groups of people,

1547
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:27,319
which is what I really love to do.

1548
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:31,199
Speaker 4: Well, No, I've seen you on Paranormal Lockdown. I thought

1549
01:25:31,199 --> 01:25:33,399
you were great on there, and I believe you were

1550
01:25:33,399 --> 01:25:37,920
on camera and Paranormal State too back in the early days,

1551
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,399
which I loved. That was one of the ghosts shows

1552
01:25:40,399 --> 01:25:43,840
that I loved early on. So, I mean, I thought

1553
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:45,359
that was just a cool set up, the way that

1554
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:48,560
was that was put out there, you know, group of

1555
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:49,880
college kids putting together.

1556
01:25:50,399 --> 01:25:52,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, that show was great because it had this kind

1557
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:54,960
of running narrative. You could like really get to know

1558
01:25:55,119 --> 01:25:57,319
the people on the show. It was almost like a

1559
01:25:57,359 --> 01:25:59,439
soap opera. Perform stuff.

1560
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:04,199
Speaker 4: So I got a couple of requests. We're going to

1561
01:26:04,319 --> 01:26:06,119
end with the George Bush thing. I will say that

1562
01:26:06,159 --> 01:26:08,119
to the end because I think that's a great thing

1563
01:26:08,119 --> 01:26:11,319
to end on. But right I had a listener by

1564
01:26:11,319 --> 01:26:13,359
the name of Christy tell me that she's seen you

1565
01:26:13,399 --> 01:26:17,880
a couple of times at the Stanley Hotel and she

1566
01:26:18,159 --> 01:26:20,359
said that I should get you to tell the story

1567
01:26:21,359 --> 01:26:24,640
about She said, a diner and a necklace, that you

1568
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:26,319
had a really cool story. So I don't know if

1569
01:26:26,319 --> 01:26:28,119
you'll know what I'm talking about, but I'm not sure

1570
01:26:28,119 --> 01:26:28,880
what the story is.

1571
01:26:29,359 --> 01:26:32,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'll tell you the diner story and then

1572
01:26:32,359 --> 01:26:37,560
the necklace story. I do a very sporadic podcast called

1573
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:41,560
The Realm of the Weird, and it's the strangest stories

1574
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:45,560
all that you know, I've had over the past thirty years,

1575
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:48,680
and I turned them into these little fifteen minute vignettes

1576
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:50,960
that are kind of like the Twilight Zone, like an

1577
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:54,640
old time radio show, and just I let people hear

1578
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:58,000
real recordings on it, and all of the story is

1579
01:26:58,079 --> 01:27:00,960
drawn from my notes. So if they go to realm,

1580
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:02,600
if you go to Realm Withtheird dot com, you can

1581
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:05,640
find both of these stories. But this is the short

1582
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:10,479
version of the diner story years. This is probably now

1583
01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:18,359
eleven years ago. I went to paranormal convention in Illinois,

1584
01:27:19,399 --> 01:27:23,479
went down, was hanging out out there on Friday, and

1585
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:26,319
on Saturday is when the big event was going to happen.

1586
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:31,079
I was driving from the hotel to the event. Someone

1587
01:27:31,159 --> 01:27:35,359
sideswiped my car, totaled out my truck. I had it

1588
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:38,359
towed away and then walked to the quarter of a

1589
01:27:38,399 --> 01:27:41,600
mile to the location to the paranormal convention, spent the

1590
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:44,720
night whatever, and then had someone drive me back to

1591
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:49,720
the hotel on Saturday night. So on Sunday, the place

1592
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:52,840
that towed my truck told me that they weren't going

1593
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:54,880
to be able to have it fixed for like three

1594
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:57,640
or four days. It's a very small town in Illinois,

1595
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,119
so I had to take some days off work. I

1596
01:28:00,159 --> 01:28:01,920
just called work told him I wouldn't be in until

1597
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:05,840
I had my car done. But because the convention was over,

1598
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:09,720
the hotel cleared out. So in this two hundred room hotel,

1599
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:12,920
I'm the only person on Sunday night that's in this

1600
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:15,199
hotel except for the guy work in the front desk,

1601
01:28:15,279 --> 01:28:20,319
and one made so on Monday, I asked him is

1602
01:28:20,359 --> 01:28:23,720
there any place to eat around here? And he said, yeah,

1603
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:25,680
you know, you go out the back of the hotel.

1604
01:28:26,119 --> 01:28:28,239
You go left when you go here, you go right.

1605
01:28:28,279 --> 01:28:30,359
When you go here, there's a golf course. You go left,

1606
01:28:30,399 --> 01:28:33,359
go around there, and there's a diner. So this is

1607
01:28:33,399 --> 01:28:37,399
the middle of winter, there's huge snowstorms going on. I

1608
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:39,239
had to truck out. I go out the back of

1609
01:28:39,239 --> 01:28:41,840
the hotel. I follow his directions as much as I can.

1610
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:44,119
I get to the golf course. I find this river,

1611
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,600
and I just, I mean, it's just blinding snow. Finally

1612
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:49,399
I see the diner. I go in. There's a couple

1613
01:28:49,399 --> 01:28:52,159
of people in there. I order my food, I eat,

1614
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:54,960
walk back to the hotel, don't think anything about it.

1615
01:28:56,680 --> 01:29:01,119
Next day, just stayed in, didn't do anything. Day or

1616
01:29:01,159 --> 01:29:04,680
a third day. I go back out into the snowstorm,

1617
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:10,119
wander through this just, I mean, it was coming down.

1618
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,560
Is that type of snow, the big snowflakes, and everything

1619
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:16,000
is just white. It's just a complete white out. I

1620
01:29:16,039 --> 01:29:19,600
find the diner. I go back in, same people are

1621
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:21,439
there is the last time I was there. I order

1622
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:24,960
more food, eat, walk back to the hotel. Wake up.

1623
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:28,439
The next morning. My truck has been delivered. I get

1624
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:31,000
in my truck, pay up my bill, and then I

1625
01:29:31,079 --> 01:29:33,439
decide I'm going to go back to that diner for

1626
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:36,760
one last meal and then I'll go home. So I

1627
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:38,880
start driving around the roads, up and down the roads.

1628
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:40,680
I drive around for about forty five minutes, and I

1629
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:43,880
can't find it anywhere. And I think to myself, you know,

1630
01:29:44,319 --> 01:29:47,000
I've been on foot, and I've kind of been cutting

1631
01:29:47,039 --> 01:29:52,279
through this golf course and this state Land, and so

1632
01:29:52,319 --> 01:29:54,600
maybe the roads just aren't leading me in the right direction.

1633
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:56,960
So I drive back to the hotel and I asked

1634
01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:59,680
the guy working at the front Tesco now that I'm driving,

1635
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,439
ho I get back to that diner and he goes, okay,

1636
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:04,960
come around the back parking lot and you go left

1637
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:06,800
and you go right. And I said, listen, i've been walking.

1638
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:10,039
When I get to the river by the golf course,

1639
01:30:10,319 --> 01:30:13,319
which direction do I go? And he looks at me

1640
01:30:13,359 --> 01:30:15,319
and gives me this really weird look, and he says,

1641
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:18,239
the river by the golf course. He's like, that's the

1642
01:30:18,319 --> 01:30:22,399
wrong direction. There's nothing over there but state Land. And

1643
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:24,920
I said, no, there's a diner over there. I've eaten

1644
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:27,560
at it twice. And he goes if you're by the

1645
01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:29,840
river in the golf course, there's nothing over there. It's

1646
01:30:30,079 --> 01:30:32,199
only state Land. There's nothing over there. The diner that

1647
01:30:32,239 --> 01:30:36,479
I'm talking about is in the complete opposite direction. So

1648
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:38,560
I get back in my truck. I drive to where

1649
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:41,560
he's talking about. That's not the diner that I've been

1650
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:44,399
eating at. I've never seen that diner before in my life.

1651
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:46,760
I go back and try and trace my route. I

1652
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:49,000
get out of the truck, I start walking around in

1653
01:30:49,039 --> 01:30:53,680
the snow, and where I've eaten twice in the past

1654
01:30:53,800 --> 01:31:00,039
four days does not exist. Well, never has.

1655
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:02,840
Speaker 4: Now.

1656
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:06,079
Speaker 2: I remember the taste of the pancakes. I paid someone

1657
01:31:06,199 --> 01:31:12,159
American money for pancakes, and that place does not exist.

1658
01:31:12,239 --> 01:31:15,680
It has not existed. I've since that time talked to

1659
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:18,119
people who have lived in that city their whole lives.

1660
01:31:18,319 --> 01:31:21,760
That's never been a diner there. I, you know, Google

1661
01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:23,800
I every now and then, still to this day, I

1662
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:26,199
Google Earth it to look and see, and it's just

1663
01:31:26,239 --> 01:31:29,159
a state Land where I can see from Google Earth,

1664
01:31:29,199 --> 01:31:32,159
I can trace my own path as to how I

1665
01:31:32,239 --> 01:31:34,600
walked and where I walked to. And there's nothing over

1666
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:35,520
there but state Land.

1667
01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:39,359
Speaker 4: That's awesome. That's some Twilight Zone stuff.

1668
01:31:39,079 --> 01:31:42,239
Speaker 2: There very much, so, so I did that as an

1669
01:31:42,239 --> 01:31:45,920
episode of Realm of the Weird, and at the end

1670
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,479
of the episode, I told people, you know, I do

1671
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:50,640
remember the names of the two people that I talked

1672
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:53,399
to who were in the diner. If you know who

1673
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:56,439
those people are, could someone email me or give me

1674
01:31:56,479 --> 01:31:59,159
a call so that I know I'm not completely insane.

1675
01:32:00,239 --> 01:32:03,239
And a few years went by with that episode, just

1676
01:32:03,279 --> 01:32:06,039
sitting out there, and eventually I got an email from

1677
01:32:06,079 --> 01:32:08,920
a guy who lives in Illinois and he said, you know,

1678
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:11,359
I stumbled across your podcast and someone told me it

1679
01:32:11,399 --> 01:32:13,279
was really weird and I needed to listen to it.

1680
01:32:14,239 --> 01:32:17,039
But is this a picture of the woman that you saw?

1681
01:32:17,079 --> 01:32:18,680
And he had scanned a picture and sent it in

1682
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:21,279
the email and I said, that's her and he said

1683
01:32:21,359 --> 01:32:25,720
that's my grandmother. And I we werecking forth a chat

1684
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:29,760
program and I said, well, that's great because it means

1685
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:32,319
I'm not crazy and he said, no, that's my grandmother.

1686
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:34,239
She died in nineteen seventy three.

1687
01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:35,239
Speaker 4: Oh wow.

1688
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:43,039
Speaker 2: So I don't know what the hell happened. I mean,

1689
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:45,600
you can call it a time slip, or that I

1690
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:48,800
slipped through into an alternate version of Earth something, but

1691
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:53,920
one of the weirdest, strangest To this day, I still

1692
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:55,680
can't wrap my head around what happened.

1693
01:32:57,159 --> 01:33:00,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't even know where to begin to try

1694
01:33:00,239 --> 01:33:02,439
to explain what would happen. I was thinking time slip

1695
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:03,920
at the same time you said time slip.

1696
01:33:05,279 --> 01:33:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, something. But the problem is is that there's never

1697
01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:09,640
been a diner there, so it can't be a time slip.

1698
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:10,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true.

1699
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:12,600
Speaker 2: If it was a time slip, then someone would have

1700
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:14,880
remembered there being a diner there. There's only ever been

1701
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:18,720
state Land there, so I have no freaking clue what happened.

1702
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 4: All right, let's move on to this next question, because

1703
01:33:22,479 --> 01:33:24,760
that's too much for me to try to Between that

1704
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:27,159
and Stephen Hawking passing in the same day, that's too

1705
01:33:27,199 --> 01:33:29,039
much for my mind to comprehend.

1706
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:33,319
Speaker 2: Stephen Hawking born on the day that Galileo died, died

1707
01:33:33,359 --> 01:33:34,960
on the day that Einstein was born.

1708
01:33:36,039 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 4: See's coincidence. Yeah, it all goes full circle. So Katie

1709
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:48,479
wants to know that if someone wanted to get into

1710
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:53,079
paranormal investigating, what advice would you give somebody on how

1711
01:33:53,079 --> 01:33:53,680
to get started?

1712
01:33:55,279 --> 01:33:59,600
Speaker 2: You know, it really got to be how you want

1713
01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:04,079
to start, So like, find that one aspect of paranormal

1714
01:34:04,079 --> 01:34:08,000
phenomena that interests you the most, and read as much

1715
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:10,239
as you can about it and talk to as many

1716
01:34:10,239 --> 01:34:13,199
people as you can about it. I mean, that's really

1717
01:34:13,279 --> 01:34:16,880
where you have to start, is just growing your own

1718
01:34:16,920 --> 01:34:19,840
internal knowledge. And there's a lot of reflectivity that I

1719
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:22,359
think needs to be done. There's a lot of sit

1720
01:34:22,399 --> 01:34:25,560
alone and ask yourself really weird questions about what you're

1721
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:31,279
thinking about. You know, whatever you think of is going

1722
01:34:31,319 --> 01:34:33,960
to be good, but you should challenge how you're thinking

1723
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:37,079
about something. You know, when I talk to people and

1724
01:34:37,119 --> 01:34:40,279
do lectures and they say, like, I heard a ghost voice,

1725
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:42,479
a lot of times I'll ask them how does a

1726
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:44,600
ghost have a voice? Like, the only reason I have

1727
01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:47,239
a voice is because I have lungs and a larynx

1728
01:34:47,239 --> 01:34:49,079
and a throat and tongue and lips, and I can

1729
01:34:49,079 --> 01:34:51,279
push air and make air move and it makes a

1730
01:34:51,319 --> 01:34:53,680
wave and then it bounces off ear. That's how a

1731
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:56,760
voice is made. Now, as far as we know, ghosts

1732
01:34:56,840 --> 01:34:59,439
being the kind of ethereal creatures we think they are,

1733
01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:01,600
they don't have lungs and a larynx, and they don't

1734
01:35:01,640 --> 01:35:04,239
push air with their lips and their tongue. So how

1735
01:35:04,279 --> 01:35:07,000
are they making a voice? How are you hearing it?

1736
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:10,800
If it's not waves moving through the air to make sound,

1737
01:35:10,920 --> 01:35:12,920
how is your ear hearing it? I mean, there's a

1738
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:16,760
lot of self questioning of what you believe and how

1739
01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:18,479
you believe it that I think needs to be done

1740
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:21,039
if you're going to be a paranormal investigator. And then

1741
01:35:21,079 --> 01:35:23,159
the other thing is too is you've got to have,

1742
01:35:23,359 --> 01:35:28,720
at least in my opinion, a very well rounded idea

1743
01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:31,640
of all of the things that you're going to be

1744
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:33,760
dealing with. So not only do you need to read

1745
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:36,760
about ghosts, but you do need to read about neurobiology

1746
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:40,560
and neuroscience, and you need to know a little bit

1747
01:35:41,119 --> 01:35:43,680
of physics and mathematics. You need to know a little

1748
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:47,840
bit about cosmology and space and the weather. It's an

1749
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:53,600
endless octopus that I feel like you really need if

1750
01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:57,920
you're going to try and traverse this landscape.

1751
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:01,800
Speaker 4: Well, that's I mean, it pretty much puts it all

1752
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:04,800
in a nutshell. I mean, but you're right, it's at

1753
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:07,680
the bottom line, is you got to do the part

1754
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:09,760
that you're most fascinated with to get started.

1755
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:12,359
Speaker 2: I think yeah, for sure. And you know, there are

1756
01:36:12,399 --> 01:36:15,199
people who want to run around in the dark with

1757
01:36:15,239 --> 01:36:18,279
flashlights and get scared. That's fine. If that's what you want,

1758
01:36:18,359 --> 01:36:21,159
that's absolutely fine. If you want to research and just

1759
01:36:21,199 --> 01:36:23,800
bury yourself in books and never go out in the field,

1760
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:26,159
that's fine too. If you want to do both of

1761
01:36:26,199 --> 01:36:28,760
those things, that's fine too. You have to figure out

1762
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:32,439
what it is about the phenomena that you're passionate about

1763
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:36,760
that you're not going to become not passionate about, and

1764
01:36:37,079 --> 01:36:40,119
if it doesn't conform to the way that you know

1765
01:36:40,159 --> 01:36:43,079
if you I know so many people over the past

1766
01:36:43,119 --> 01:36:46,960
thirty years that get really interested in ghosts, and then

1767
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:49,600
they read about it, and they study it for four

1768
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:53,560
or five years, six years, seven years, ten years, and

1769
01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:56,760
when it doesn't conform to the way that they think

1770
01:36:56,800 --> 01:37:01,640
about it, they get frustrated, they give up, well it's

1771
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:05,880
not what I thought, and then they just stop. This phenomena,

1772
01:37:06,119 --> 01:37:08,279
all of these weird phenomena that we deal with all

1773
01:37:08,319 --> 01:37:11,600
the time. They're going to be stranger than you think

1774
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:15,239
they are, and you shouldn't let that deter you from

1775
01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:18,600
continuing to explore them.

1776
01:37:18,760 --> 01:37:21,600
Speaker 4: It's funny that you said that exactly the way you did,

1777
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:25,720
because I was talking to a former paranormal investigator, and

1778
01:37:26,399 --> 01:37:29,039
he told me that after five years of doing it,

1779
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:33,399
he was frustrated because he had more questions now than

1780
01:37:33,399 --> 01:37:34,560
he did before he started.

1781
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:39,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I have way more questions now after thirty

1782
01:37:39,399 --> 01:37:42,279
years than I ever had when I started. When I started,

1783
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:46,520
I was just looking for ghosts. Now I'm all mixed

1784
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:51,199
up with interdimensional bigfoots and reptilians that might be disguised

1785
01:37:51,239 --> 01:37:55,800
as ethereal ghostly like manifestations from the future, Like it

1786
01:37:56,199 --> 01:38:00,479
gets weirder and stranger, and there's deeper philosophical us that

1787
01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:03,800
you run across. And how does your consciousness work? And

1788
01:38:04,159 --> 01:38:08,159
is you know what I was talking on a show recently.

1789
01:38:08,199 --> 01:38:10,039
It might have even been Robs when I was talking

1790
01:38:10,079 --> 01:38:17,119
about you know, if massively complex chemical and atomic reactions

1791
01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:19,920
gave rise to our consciousness. If the reason that we're

1792
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:25,439
self aware is because there's a ton of electrical information

1793
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:28,800
moving about inside of our brains. If that's the reason

1794
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:32,600
that we're conscious, then that would mean that complex electrical

1795
01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:37,520
and chemical systems are conscious, which leads me to speculate

1796
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:42,640
and rhapsodize about the fact that the largest chemical electrical

1797
01:38:43,399 --> 01:38:46,399
engine that we know of right now, in our solar system,

1798
01:38:46,439 --> 01:38:48,560
the one that's closest to us is the Sun, which

1799
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:52,319
is way more complex chemically and atomically than our brain.

1800
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:56,079
So why is the sun not conscious? Or is the

1801
01:38:56,119 --> 01:38:59,239
sun conscious? But it's just a consciousness so much different

1802
01:38:59,319 --> 01:39:03,239
from ours that we don't recognize that it's conscious. But

1803
01:39:03,399 --> 01:39:06,159
then you have to ask yourself why if you take

1804
01:39:06,319 --> 01:39:09,800
children from across the world, of all ages and all

1805
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:12,760
races and all religions, and you tell them to draw

1806
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:15,039
a picture of the sun, they will draw the sun,

1807
01:39:15,079 --> 01:39:16,760
but they'll put a face in the middle of it,

1808
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:19,239
as if children know that the sun is alive.

1809
01:39:21,680 --> 01:39:24,319
Speaker 4: It's something I've never thought about, but you're right, every

1810
01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:26,640
kid draws a face on the sun.

1811
01:39:27,359 --> 01:39:27,640
Speaker 2: Yep.

1812
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:32,479
Speaker 4: Man, Yeah, it's gonna be hard for me to sleep tonight.

1813
01:39:32,520 --> 01:39:37,479
You've given me so much to think about. I can't

1814
01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:39,640
wait to hear how you answer this, because this is

1815
01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:42,000
actually my favorite question of the ones. A listener said,

1816
01:39:42,079 --> 01:39:46,039
you being a master researcher, Tina wants to know what's

1817
01:39:46,079 --> 01:39:49,319
the most interesting or scary thing that you've ever done

1818
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:51,039
in the name of research.

1819
01:39:55,560 --> 01:40:00,840
Speaker 2: I don't get scared that much. The most I first,

1820
01:40:01,560 --> 01:40:06,760
really in the early nineties I really wanted to know

1821
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:09,840
what was going on with my brain, and so I

1822
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:13,760
took a lot of classes while I was working for Unsolved,

1823
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:15,600
even though I wasn't going to college. I took a

1824
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:22,560
lot of classes on just the brain itself and human psychology.

1825
01:40:23,119 --> 01:40:26,760
I did things like I became a magician. I joined

1826
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:29,039
like magicians Guild so I could learn, you know, the

1827
01:40:29,079 --> 01:40:31,560
hand is faster than the ihicker my brain beat tricked.

1828
01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:35,439
And I did flotation tanks for you know, hours on

1829
01:40:35,560 --> 01:40:37,159
and I think the longest I was ever in an

1830
01:40:37,199 --> 01:40:41,000
isolation tank was about twenty hours, maybe a little less seventeen.

1831
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:44,039
I did the scariest, weirdest thing I ever did for

1832
01:40:44,119 --> 01:40:49,960
research was I did a sleep deprivation experiment where they

1833
01:40:50,079 --> 01:40:56,600
monitored me for about thirty seven hours. And you're not

1834
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:59,079
allowed to sleep. You're not allowed to have micro sleeps.

1835
01:40:59,079 --> 01:41:02,600
There's a lot of times when you're saying that you're

1836
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:07,239
staying awake, you're actually doing these little micro sleeps which last,

1837
01:41:07,319 --> 01:41:08,960
you know, one or two seconds, and you don't even

1838
01:41:09,039 --> 01:41:11,079
realize that you've fallen asleep. But when you're doing a

1839
01:41:11,079 --> 01:41:14,640
sleep study, they keep you from doing that. And I

1840
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:17,800
lost track of time at a certain point, and I

1841
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:25,640
became very engulfed in the hallucinogenic world that happens to

1842
01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:28,760
your brain when your sleep deprived. And I was very

1843
01:41:28,840 --> 01:41:34,640
frightened at a certain point because reality was very much

1844
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:37,800
falling away from me right near the end of the experiment.

1845
01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:41,760
But after about thirty hours, I didn't know who was

1846
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:44,239
real and who wasn't real. I was having conversations with

1847
01:41:44,279 --> 01:41:47,680
people that weren't there. And when I was done, when

1848
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:49,279
you know someone has to come and pick you up,

1849
01:41:49,279 --> 01:41:52,439
they obviously don't let you drive home. The doctor told me,

1850
01:41:53,439 --> 01:41:55,560
you know, you're going to go home and you're really tired,

1851
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:57,479
and you're going to lay in bed and you're not

1852
01:41:57,520 --> 01:41:58,840
going to be able to sleep, and you're going to

1853
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:01,920
think that you're broken and that you'll never sleep ever again.

1854
01:42:02,039 --> 01:42:04,359
He goes, don't worry about it, You'll fall asleep, and

1855
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:06,000
I was like, no way, I'm going home and I'm

1856
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:09,680
fall asleep right now. And I drove home and laid

1857
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:13,000
down in bed and could not sleep, and I thought,

1858
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:15,000
holy shit, I'm broken, like I'm not going to be

1859
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:17,680
able to ever sleep again. And as soon as I

1860
01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:20,399
got through that thought, probably within five or ten minutes,

1861
01:42:20,399 --> 01:42:22,239
I fell asleep. I woke up eight hours later and

1862
01:42:22,279 --> 01:42:26,199
I was perfectly back to normal. But those few last

1863
01:42:26,239 --> 01:42:29,640
hours of that experiment were probably one of the most

1864
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:32,199
harrowing situations that I've ever done for research.

1865
01:42:32,279 --> 01:42:33,479
Speaker 4: See, I just knew there was going to be a

1866
01:42:33,479 --> 01:42:35,000
good story come about that, and so does I saw

1867
01:42:35,039 --> 01:42:38,560
the question This is the last question I got for you.

1868
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:40,840
Speaker 2: Don't ever stay awake that long. I'm telling you.

1869
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:44,039
Speaker 4: Right now, at my age, I'm able to barely stay

1870
01:42:44,079 --> 01:42:46,119
up past ten o'clock. I'm sitting here yelling. And now,

1871
01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:51,399
so Haley wants to know. Has there ever been a

1872
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:54,800
time where you felt like an entity has attached itself

1873
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:57,560
to you? And if so, is it still with you?

1874
01:42:57,800 --> 01:42:59,640
Or if not, how do you get rid of something

1875
01:42:59,680 --> 01:42:59,960
like that?

1876
01:43:02,119 --> 01:43:02,319
Speaker 6: You know?

1877
01:43:03,039 --> 01:43:07,199
Speaker 2: One of the really great things that I have kind

1878
01:43:07,239 --> 01:43:10,000
of going for me is that when I started all

1879
01:43:10,039 --> 01:43:13,159
of this strangeness, I got to meet a lot of

1880
01:43:13,199 --> 01:43:16,520
the kind of old timey big wigs in our field,

1881
01:43:17,119 --> 01:43:20,279
and one of them was Hans Holzer, who's kind of

1882
01:43:20,279 --> 01:43:25,079
the grandfather of ghost hunters. And I was very concerned

1883
01:43:25,079 --> 01:43:28,680
at that time as a young man with having attachments

1884
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:32,039
and having things glom onto me and follow me home,

1885
01:43:33,079 --> 01:43:35,960
and he taught me this thing. He said, listen, he said,

1886
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:40,640
you just you have to make it known that nothing

1887
01:43:41,319 --> 01:43:43,720
can follow you home, and that your home is yours.

1888
01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:46,479
And so every time you walk into your house where

1889
01:43:46,479 --> 01:43:50,319
you live, even decide to take the trash out every

1890
01:43:50,359 --> 01:43:53,560
time you come back in, just say to yourself really quickly,

1891
01:43:54,119 --> 01:43:57,760
this is my house and mean it. And you'll build

1892
01:43:57,800 --> 01:43:59,680
a force build up around your house and nothing will

1893
01:43:59,720 --> 01:44:02,239
be able to get in. Or when you start investigating,

1894
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:05,880
just take up fraction of a second and forcefully think

1895
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:09,319
to yourself before you start investigating, nothing will attach itself

1896
01:44:09,359 --> 01:44:12,159
to me. And you do, you build a barrier around yourself.

1897
01:44:12,159 --> 01:44:15,880
And after doing it for almost thirty years, I've never

1898
01:44:15,960 --> 01:44:22,079
had an attachment. I've never had anything try and follow me.

1899
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:25,800
I mean, stuff might have tried to follow me, but

1900
01:44:25,840 --> 01:44:28,119
it doesn't. It can't attach to me, and it can't

1901
01:44:28,159 --> 01:44:31,479
get in my house. So I wouldn't really know the

1902
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:34,560
kids in my neighborhood. Over the past six or seven

1903
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:38,439
years that I've lived in this house, the kids in

1904
01:44:38,439 --> 01:44:41,359
my neighborhood and some of my adult neighbors have told

1905
01:44:41,399 --> 01:44:43,600
me that they see people standing on the roof of

1906
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:48,960
my house at night, which is interesting, but nothing gets

1907
01:44:49,000 --> 01:44:51,479
in my house and nothing's ever attached itself to me,

1908
01:44:51,520 --> 01:44:54,319
and I really do think it's more just the force

1909
01:44:54,359 --> 01:44:57,159
of your own will keeping that stuff at bay.

1910
01:44:58,399 --> 01:45:02,600
Speaker 4: Fascinating answer expect that either. So this is This has

1911
01:45:02,640 --> 01:45:04,880
been such a fun interview for me because I feel

1912
01:45:04,920 --> 01:45:07,479
like out of every interview that I've done, I've learned

1913
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:10,960
more on this one, or have been given different ways

1914
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:13,800
to look that I've hadn't thought about in so many

1915
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:16,920
different aspects. So I appreciate you challenging all of our

1916
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:17,760
minds out there.

1917
01:45:18,199 --> 01:45:21,199
Speaker 2: Thanks. I like throwing seeds out there. I'm just planting ideas,

1918
01:45:21,279 --> 01:45:23,920
and the only reason that listen. It's not altruistic. The

1919
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:25,720
only reason I do it is because I want people

1920
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:28,000
to think about stuff that I can't think about and

1921
01:45:28,039 --> 01:45:29,680
then bring it back to me and say, well what

1922
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:33,319
about this? Because I don't know everything, but I want

1923
01:45:33,319 --> 01:45:35,319
to know, and the only way I can know is

1924
01:45:35,359 --> 01:45:38,520
by working and thinking and talking to other people, because

1925
01:45:39,039 --> 01:45:42,640
together we construct stuff that we can't do by ourselves.

1926
01:45:43,560 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 4: All right, So tell me the George Bush story because

1927
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:48,840
I love the story, and then we're going to close

1928
01:45:48,880 --> 01:45:50,880
with you telling everybody how they can catch up with

1929
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:55,000
the seventeen thousand things that you do on a yearly basis.

1930
01:45:56,279 --> 01:46:01,319
Speaker 2: So in two thousand I ran from mayor of my hometown,

1931
01:46:01,479 --> 01:46:06,600
Royal Oak, Michigan. And when you run for mayor or

1932
01:46:06,720 --> 01:46:10,520
any public office, they always want you to meet all

1933
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:13,840
the other candidates, whether they're from the state level or

1934
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:16,600
the federal level or the county level, just so that

1935
01:46:16,640 --> 01:46:18,600
they can have a picture of you with that person

1936
01:46:19,279 --> 01:46:21,520
in case you both win, and then they can put

1937
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:23,800
that in the newspaper. Well, the year that I was

1938
01:46:23,880 --> 01:46:27,279
running for mayor was the year that George W. Bush

1939
01:46:27,319 --> 01:46:30,199
announced that he was going to run for president, And

1940
01:46:30,359 --> 01:46:32,079
they announced that he was going to do a whistle

1941
01:46:32,079 --> 01:46:35,920
stop tour to meet some voters in Royal Oak, And

1942
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:38,760
because I was running for mayor, there would be this

1943
01:46:39,119 --> 01:46:42,840
kind of photo op press moment where the three mayoral

1944
01:46:42,840 --> 01:46:46,840
candidates would get a moment with him. So he showed

1945
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:50,119
up at this Coney Island and there were a lot

1946
01:46:50,159 --> 01:46:52,239
of people there just to see him and talk to him,

1947
01:46:52,239 --> 01:46:56,239
and then the three mayoral candidates and some of the

1948
01:46:56,239 --> 01:46:58,399
people who were running for city commission were there too,

1949
01:46:59,359 --> 01:47:01,399
and the people and I didn't really want to get

1950
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:04,159
involved with a huge mess of people that were all

1951
01:47:04,199 --> 01:47:06,520
swamping him and trying to get his autograph and stuff.

1952
01:47:06,560 --> 01:47:08,560
So I went outside and I knew that i'd get

1953
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:11,119
a moment with him at the end. So I was

1954
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:14,720
talking to this CNN crew that was following him around,

1955
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:18,439
and I said to them, so, how has this been,

1956
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:19,920
you know, has it been exciting? What have you guys

1957
01:47:19,960 --> 01:47:22,880
been doing? And there's this guy holding a boom microphone

1958
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:25,039
and he kind of looks at me and he says, man,

1959
01:47:25,359 --> 01:47:28,079
it's boring. These things are always boring. Nothing's going to happen.

1960
01:47:28,680 --> 01:47:30,520
And I said, well, I'm about to talk to him

1961
01:47:31,119 --> 01:47:34,600
and I'm going to ask him about UFOs and his

1962
01:47:34,680 --> 01:47:37,720
eyes lit up and he's like great, Like finally something

1963
01:47:37,720 --> 01:47:41,079
that we can film. So the event gets over and

1964
01:47:41,119 --> 01:47:44,399
he comes out and the mayoral candidates are lined up,

1965
01:47:44,439 --> 01:47:46,520
and he goes to the first guy and ask him

1966
01:47:46,520 --> 01:47:50,800
his question. Second guy asked him his question. Then w

1967
01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:52,760
Bush comes up to me and he looks at me

1968
01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:55,239
and kind of gives me that George w thing. He's like,

1969
01:47:55,479 --> 01:47:59,000
what can I do for you? And I said, listen,

1970
01:47:59,079 --> 01:48:01,279
if you're willing, if you're going to become president of

1971
01:48:01,279 --> 01:48:04,039
the United States, would you be willing to release any

1972
01:48:04,119 --> 01:48:08,520
and all information that the government has regarding unidentified flying objects.

1973
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:11,079
And by the time I got objects out of my mouth,

1974
01:48:11,199 --> 01:48:14,359
security had grabbed my shoulders. Secret Service and the Texas

1975
01:48:14,439 --> 01:48:16,279
Rangers pulled me to the back of the crowd. They

1976
01:48:16,279 --> 01:48:18,800
spun him around, they pushed him in his car. He

1977
01:48:18,920 --> 01:48:21,079
zoomed off, and they threw me at the feet of

1978
01:48:21,079 --> 01:48:23,680
the CNN crew i'd been talking to earlier, and the

1979
01:48:23,720 --> 01:48:26,520
guy with the boom microphone looks down at me and goes, well,

1980
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:27,960
that was the wrong fucking question.

1981
01:48:29,399 --> 01:48:32,720
Speaker 4: I just think that is so damn funny.

1982
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:36,199
Speaker 2: It was one of those moments because you know, and

1983
01:48:36,199 --> 01:48:38,279
people say, like, well, do you think that he did

1984
01:48:38,319 --> 01:48:41,479
that because he knew something about UFOs or he didn't

1985
01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:43,840
want to talk about UFOs. The reality of the situation

1986
01:48:44,039 --> 01:48:46,880
is they didn't want him to be near a crazy person.

1987
01:48:48,119 --> 01:48:52,960
And when someone starts talking about UFOs to a presidential candidate,

1988
01:48:53,319 --> 01:48:57,079
their immedia instinct is they've got a lunatic on their hands.

1989
01:48:57,079 --> 01:48:59,119
Get them away from the president, the guy who might

1990
01:48:59,159 --> 01:49:05,520
be president. But it's interesting because you know, bush what

1991
01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:09,000
I was talking about earlier. I don't think that presidents

1992
01:49:09,039 --> 01:49:12,680
really know about UFOs. But the Bush family, I mean,

1993
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:15,560
you're not talking about just a president. You're talking about

1994
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:19,159
the son of someone who was president, and Bush Senior,

1995
01:49:20,000 --> 01:49:23,119
not only being president and a vice president, was also

1996
01:49:23,159 --> 01:49:25,000
the head of the CIA. You know, he was a

1997
01:49:25,439 --> 01:49:28,039
career CIA agent for a long time and then head

1998
01:49:28,079 --> 01:49:32,439
of the CIA. So I would feel like George Herbert

1999
01:49:32,439 --> 01:49:36,279
Walker Bush probably did know something, if there was something

2000
01:49:36,279 --> 01:49:39,199
to know about UFOs, and I don't know how well

2001
01:49:39,239 --> 01:49:41,720
he would have kept that information away from his children.

2002
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:47,479
Speaker 4: Well, John, this has been so much fun. I hate

2003
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:50,520
for it to end, but I guess all things must

2004
01:49:50,520 --> 01:49:53,359
come to an end. Is there one spot where people

2005
01:49:53,399 --> 01:49:56,520
can find out all the different podcasts that you're involved

2006
01:49:56,560 --> 01:49:58,880
with and lectures and all that is everything you kind

2007
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:01,239
of gathered in one spot, you know.

2008
01:50:01,279 --> 01:50:03,560
Speaker 2: I've tried to make it as easy for everybody as possible.

2009
01:50:03,640 --> 01:50:06,760
My website is Weird Lectures. You can get through a

2010
01:50:06,760 --> 01:50:08,840
lot of the stuff. You can find Realm of the

2011
01:50:08,840 --> 01:50:11,520
Weird on there. I have another podcast called Real Lost.

2012
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:14,399
You can find that through Weird Lectures dot com, or

2013
01:50:14,479 --> 01:50:16,880
they can just follow me on Twitter. John E. L.

2014
01:50:17,039 --> 01:50:21,000
Tenny Instagram is John E. L. Tenny, Facebook is John E.

2015
01:50:21,159 --> 01:50:23,319
L Tenny. And I tell people all the time, if

2016
01:50:23,319 --> 01:50:25,399
you go to Google and you just type T E

2017
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:28,720
N N E Y and then Weirdo and hit search,

2018
01:50:29,199 --> 01:50:31,880
it's all me and just follow it till you're insane.

2019
01:50:32,920 --> 01:50:35,560
Speaker 4: There you go, Well, and this is going to show

2020
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:38,560
that I didn't do my proper research. But somebody actually

2021
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:41,359
asked me earlier and I didn't know the answer, and

2022
01:50:41,399 --> 01:50:43,479
then I got tied up and didn't get to look.

2023
01:50:43,680 --> 01:50:45,239
What does the el stand for?

2024
01:50:46,399 --> 01:50:47,640
Speaker 2: Elmer Leonard?

2025
01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:50,359
Speaker 4: So you got two middle names?

2026
01:50:50,720 --> 01:50:55,319
Speaker 2: I do. I'm the last. I'm the last person in

2027
01:50:55,359 --> 01:50:58,720
my family, the last in my line my family tree.

2028
01:50:58,920 --> 01:51:03,239
So my dad after him. His name is John. His

2029
01:51:03,399 --> 01:51:06,640
father's name was Elmer and his grandfather's name was Leonard.

2030
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:10,199
So he gave me all of the male names that

2031
01:51:10,520 --> 01:51:15,000
I could handle since I'm the last one. John.

2032
01:51:15,039 --> 01:51:16,840
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming on, man, it's been

2033
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:20,159
so much fun. And do you have any events coming

2034
01:51:20,199 --> 01:51:23,359
up soon? I know you're doing some stuff with Amy's

2035
01:51:23,399 --> 01:51:27,199
project that she's got out there, and I know I think,

2036
01:51:27,239 --> 01:51:29,359
are you going on the cruise too? Is that something

2037
01:51:29,399 --> 01:51:29,800
you're doing?

2038
01:51:30,279 --> 01:51:32,159
Speaker 2: Yep, I'm going on the cruise if they go to

2039
01:51:32,239 --> 01:51:34,960
Weird lectures dot com. There's an events page and just

2040
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:36,920
click on that and I update it all the time

2041
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:39,640
with the events and where I'll be. And if people

2042
01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:41,600
have an event they want me at, just tell the

2043
01:51:41,600 --> 01:51:45,399
event people to contact me or Lindsey at center stage

2044
01:51:45,479 --> 01:51:47,119
and we'll put something together.

2045
01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:49,680
Speaker 4: Brother, thank you so much for coming on. I hope

2046
01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:50,800
talk to you in the near future.

2047
01:51:51,279 --> 01:51:52,960
Speaker 2: Oh thanks for having me. I had a lot of fun.

2048
01:51:54,000 --> 01:51:54,640
Speaker 4: I appreciate it.

2049
01:51:54,680 --> 01:51:54,880
Speaker 2: Man.

2050
01:51:57,079 --> 01:51:59,479
Speaker 4: See, how do you not love that guy? After listening

2051
01:51:59,479 --> 01:52:02,279
at he is absolutely hilarious. He's just fun. He's a

2052
01:52:02,279 --> 01:52:04,560
great speaker. We did that. It's like an hour and

2053
01:52:04,600 --> 01:52:07,119
fifteen minute interview. I didn't have to edit anything.

2054
01:52:07,560 --> 01:52:08,439
Speaker 6: That's pretty amazing.

2055
01:52:08,600 --> 01:52:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2056
01:52:09,119 --> 01:52:13,000
Speaker 4: Good, Jo got at least my screw ups. Yeah, all right.

2057
01:52:13,039 --> 01:52:15,760
So we promised that we would read the Robert to

2058
01:52:15,880 --> 01:52:18,840
Dahl letters. No, like I said, they keep all these

2059
01:52:18,880 --> 01:52:21,079
at the museum down in Key West. They keep all

2060
01:52:21,119 --> 01:52:23,680
of these letters on file. So there's like a screen

2061
01:52:23,800 --> 01:52:26,279
when you go to see Robert, there is a screen

2062
01:52:26,760 --> 01:52:29,359
that you can look at and see all these letters.

2063
01:52:29,399 --> 01:52:31,119
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I would love to do that. It's cool.

2064
01:52:31,279 --> 01:52:36,159
Speaker 4: Now here's the deal. Robert the doll has a fascination.

2065
01:52:36,359 --> 01:52:39,039
So people want to go see him, and you want

2066
01:52:39,039 --> 01:52:40,960
to get your picture made with him. As you would think,

2067
01:52:41,479 --> 01:52:43,760
you have to ask Robert's permission. I don't know how

2068
01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:46,199
he tells you yes or no. Well yeah, but you're

2069
01:52:46,239 --> 01:52:49,279
supposed to ask his permission. And the legend is that

2070
01:52:49,319 --> 01:52:55,800
people who ridicule him, or take pictures without asking, or

2071
01:52:56,199 --> 01:53:02,039
somehow make any type of disrespectful remarks towards him, they

2072
01:53:02,039 --> 01:53:04,439
get hit with a lot of bad luck, so much

2073
01:53:04,479 --> 01:53:07,239
to the point that they write these letters asking for

2074
01:53:07,239 --> 01:53:11,279
forgiveness and trying to write the ship, so to speak.

2075
01:53:11,880 --> 01:53:13,600
So this is what we're going to read you. Three

2076
01:53:13,640 --> 01:53:16,000
of these letters that I've got. Here's the first one.

2077
01:53:16,319 --> 01:53:20,199
Dear Robert, You've probably received many letters like this from

2078
01:53:20,199 --> 01:53:22,399
people like me, people who were sure that there was

2079
01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:25,520
no such thing as a Robert the Doll curse. You see,

2080
01:53:25,560 --> 01:53:27,520
it's easy to act tough and try to impress your

2081
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:31,840
friends by being disrespectful, and unfortunately this is the camp

2082
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:35,039
that I find myself in. My name is Dan Schultz.

2083
01:53:35,119 --> 01:53:37,279
Back in two thousand and nine, we visited the East

2084
01:53:37,279 --> 01:53:40,560
Martella Museum. The entire purpose of this visit was to

2085
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:43,800
come and meet you. We have walked by your old

2086
01:53:43,880 --> 01:53:47,039
house multiple times over the years and have always wanted

2087
01:53:47,079 --> 01:53:49,560
to visit you at the museum. Our visit was fun

2088
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:52,600
and informative, and seeing you was the best part. I'm

2089
01:53:52,640 --> 01:53:55,279
not sure what made me act like a jerk to you.

2090
01:53:56,079 --> 01:53:58,359
I didn't ask for your permission to take your picture,

2091
01:53:58,399 --> 01:54:00,800
and I openly mocked you. Like I said, I was

2092
01:54:00,840 --> 01:54:03,039
just trying to be funny and impressed the people I

2093
01:54:03,079 --> 01:54:06,520
was visiting with. I in no way actually meant what

2094
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:09,079
I said, and I realize now I made a big mistake.

2095
01:54:09,600 --> 01:54:12,039
Since that day in late two thousand and nine, we

2096
01:54:12,119 --> 01:54:15,359
had a run of bad luck. I've had multiple health issues.

2097
01:54:15,479 --> 01:54:19,079
I had a near death experience with anemia, we had

2098
01:54:19,119 --> 01:54:22,039
family members and pets dye, and bad luck with our

2099
01:54:22,079 --> 01:54:25,399
finances that ended in US filing for bankruptcy and still

2100
01:54:25,439 --> 01:54:28,840
having financial difficulties today. The purpose of this letter is

2101
01:54:28,880 --> 01:54:31,960
to profoundly apologize and ask for your forgiveness. I've talked

2102
01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:36,000
about this event on popular travel podcasts that I'm the

2103
01:54:36,039 --> 01:54:39,159
co host on. A podcast is a radio show that

2104
01:54:39,199 --> 01:54:41,680
people can hear on their computers. In case you don't know,

2105
01:54:42,279 --> 01:54:45,920
and We'll always speak with high respect of you again, Robert,

2106
01:54:46,119 --> 01:54:49,199
please accept my sincere apologies, and if you see fit

2107
01:54:49,319 --> 01:54:53,039
to forgive in the bad luck, I would appreciate it,

2108
01:54:53,159 --> 01:54:56,079
as with my family. Dan Schultz was Palm Beach, Florida.

2109
01:54:56,520 --> 01:55:00,279
This note stuck on it says, please post were Robert

2110
01:55:00,279 --> 01:55:05,600
the doll can see this. Wow, you know, and I'm

2111
01:55:05,640 --> 01:55:09,680
not trying to debunk anything, but over a period of years,

2112
01:55:09,960 --> 01:55:12,800
you're gonna have pets die, You're gonna have family members die.

2113
01:55:12,840 --> 01:55:15,399
You're gonna I can't. I don't know how. They just

2114
01:55:15,439 --> 01:55:17,479
completely blame everything.

2115
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:18,880
Speaker 6: That goes wrong just bad timing. I guess.

2116
01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:21,239
Speaker 4: I mean, we all have bad luck. Of course, it's

2117
01:55:21,239 --> 01:55:22,800
just a matter what you're gonna blame it on. But

2118
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:24,439
he felt like that most of his.

2119
01:55:25,920 --> 01:55:26,640
Speaker 6: Buss his heart.

2120
01:55:28,279 --> 01:55:31,000
Speaker 4: Here's the second story. This was a little letter. This

2121
01:55:31,079 --> 01:55:34,039
was a little shorter, Robert. Sorry, I did not ask

2122
01:55:34,159 --> 01:55:37,000
out loud to take your photo. Since then, my husband

2123
01:55:37,079 --> 01:55:41,520
lost his diamond ring, one carrot, I tore my rotator cuff,

2124
01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:45,000
and my daughter's wedding was canceled. All happened before I

2125
01:55:45,119 --> 01:55:50,680
returned home. Please stop the curse. I'm truly sorry, and

2126
01:55:50,880 --> 01:55:55,960
life is tough enough. Sincerely, Kathy, My goodness, so he

2127
01:55:56,079 --> 01:56:00,159
lost a diamond carrot, daughter canceled the wedding, and she

2128
01:56:00,199 --> 01:56:02,359
tore a rotator cuff all before they even got home.

2129
01:56:03,439 --> 01:56:05,000
Speaker 6: That's crazy.

2130
01:56:05,239 --> 01:56:08,439
Speaker 4: Now that one I can go along with a little more. Heck,

2131
01:56:09,680 --> 01:56:11,479
here's the third one. This one's kind of my favorite.

2132
01:56:12,199 --> 01:56:14,960
Dear Robert, I'm very sorry for not asking your permission

2133
01:56:15,000 --> 01:56:17,239
to take your picture while visiting the museum last week.

2134
01:56:18,119 --> 01:56:21,119
Since I have taken your picture without permission, many strange

2135
01:56:21,119 --> 01:56:24,399
things have happened to me. While driving back from the keys,

2136
01:56:24,479 --> 01:56:26,520
a deer ran out in front of my car. We

2137
01:56:26,600 --> 01:56:28,920
had to swerve to avoid hitting it and ran off

2138
01:56:28,920 --> 01:56:31,920
the road. We almost hit a tree. Two days later,

2139
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:35,039
we had a small kitchen fire. Also, we've been hearing

2140
01:56:35,479 --> 01:56:38,800
childlike giggles from our basement. Last night, I was in

2141
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:41,199
the home all alone. I heard a voice coming from

2142
01:56:41,239 --> 01:56:43,840
the basement. When I went to investigate, I tripped and

2143
01:56:43,880 --> 01:56:46,239
fell down the bottom three stairs. I got up to

2144
01:56:46,319 --> 01:56:48,800
run out, but the door was locked. My husband said

2145
01:56:48,840 --> 01:56:51,279
I probably turned the lock by myself without even thinking

2146
01:56:51,279 --> 01:56:54,159
about it and locked myself in the basement. But honestly, Robert,

2147
01:56:54,239 --> 01:56:57,600
we both know the truth. Please accept my deepest apology

2148
01:56:57,640 --> 01:57:01,119
for taking your picture without asking. So please accept my

2149
01:57:01,199 --> 01:57:03,800
daughter's apology for sticking her tongue out at you and

2150
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:10,800
making fun of you. Sincerely, Rosie. Oh, so, what do

2151
01:57:10,840 --> 01:57:13,600
you think? Is it the case that a doll could

2152
01:57:13,640 --> 01:57:15,920
actually have a curse on it? And how did this

2153
01:57:15,960 --> 01:57:18,159
dog get a curse on it? If it didn't come

2154
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:24,239
the way that people think from the bohemian slaves or servants,

2155
01:57:24,279 --> 01:57:25,720
I should say, yeah.

2156
01:57:25,399 --> 01:57:29,640
Speaker 6: I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of coincidences,

2157
01:57:29,720 --> 01:57:34,399
for sure, but maybe it's true. I don't know how

2158
01:57:34,479 --> 01:57:41,000
the dog was cursed, but I mean, I mean, it

2159
01:57:41,039 --> 01:57:43,680
sounds like it was, and it sounds like it could

2160
01:57:44,279 --> 01:57:45,560
provoke evil on you.

2161
01:57:45,680 --> 01:57:48,000
Speaker 4: I mean, you've got a lot of people stating if

2162
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:50,199
you go back from the beginning, you've got a lot

2163
01:57:50,199 --> 01:57:54,359
of people from all the accounts of Robert's family. Yeah,

2164
01:57:54,399 --> 01:58:00,119
you've got the accounts of his wife, You've got the

2165
01:58:00,159 --> 01:58:01,279
lady who bought the house.

2166
01:58:01,399 --> 01:58:06,880
Speaker 6: That's what I'm saying. There's too many. Yeah, I mean

2167
01:58:06,920 --> 01:58:09,239
I can kind of believe it myself.

2168
01:58:09,359 --> 01:58:12,479
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know about the whole people writing

2169
01:58:12,600 --> 01:58:15,359
letters and curses of because you don't ask to take

2170
01:58:15,359 --> 01:58:18,960
a picture that seems completely random from it it's a

2171
01:58:18,960 --> 01:58:20,760
lot like the Body. Remember we did the story of

2172
01:58:20,800 --> 01:58:24,720
Body the ghost town that people would grab rocks or.

2173
01:58:24,720 --> 01:58:27,119
Speaker 6: Bottles, oh yeah, takeaway, Yeah.

2174
01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:29,439
Speaker 4: And then they would have issues like that. It's very similar,

2175
01:58:29,640 --> 01:58:30,039
it is.

2176
01:58:30,119 --> 01:58:33,239
Speaker 6: But you know, but when you think about this, lady said, oh,

2177
01:58:33,399 --> 01:58:35,600
that guy said, all that happened before he even got home.

2178
01:58:35,800 --> 01:58:37,880
I mean that's kind of weird. Yeah, I mean, I

2179
01:58:37,880 --> 01:58:40,560
mean that's three big things.

2180
01:58:40,960 --> 01:58:43,319
Speaker 4: But the hearing, the stuff in the house and the

2181
01:58:43,319 --> 01:58:47,079
footsteps and the furniture being turned over and all that stuff.

2182
01:58:48,159 --> 01:58:50,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

2183
01:58:50,680 --> 01:58:52,880
Speaker 4: And of course that could be you know, as but

2184
01:58:53,520 --> 01:58:55,119
he was still a little young. But we really don't

2185
01:58:55,159 --> 01:58:56,680
know the age at all this happened. I mean, if

2186
01:58:56,680 --> 01:58:59,880
he was in puberty age, I mean, that could be

2187
01:59:00,079 --> 01:59:04,319
typical poultrygeist type activity that he was you know, you know,

2188
01:59:04,520 --> 01:59:05,520
causing himself.

2189
01:59:06,199 --> 01:59:10,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'd say I'm suny five percent positive it was

2190
01:59:10,640 --> 01:59:13,439
a doll. That's what I'm saying.

2191
01:59:14,359 --> 01:59:17,279
Speaker 4: Guys. We appreciate you tune it into us every week.

2192
01:59:17,319 --> 01:59:19,279
We gave you a little bonus episode last week. We

2193
01:59:19,319 --> 01:59:23,079
hope you enjoyed it, and we love you guys. So

2194
01:59:23,279 --> 01:59:24,920
anytime we can do something for you. We're going to

2195
01:59:24,960 --> 01:59:25,479
try to do it.

2196
01:59:26,079 --> 01:59:30,760
Speaker 6: Yes, and let's see Wednesdays for next Sunday, next Sunday,

2197
01:59:30,800 --> 01:59:34,199
so we'll have put the show out and everybody get

2198
01:59:34,239 --> 01:59:37,000
yours through baskets ready and dye your eggs, all that

2199
01:59:37,039 --> 01:59:40,159
good fun stuff. That's what I'm looking forward to doing

2200
01:59:40,199 --> 01:59:43,479
because I love to do that with my kiddos. And

2201
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:47,000
we just want you guys to be safe, love one another,

2202
01:59:47,840 --> 01:59:50,279
and I hope you guys have a fabulous week. If

2203
01:59:50,319 --> 01:59:53,760
you don't mind to leave us some reviews on iTunes

2204
01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:56,520
or anywhere you would like, good or bad, we would

2205
01:59:56,600 --> 02:00:01,199
love to see them. And any thing else fade.

2206
02:00:02,000 --> 02:00:03,000
Speaker 4: I'm just letting you ramble.

2207
02:00:03,199 --> 02:00:06,279
Speaker 6: Oh well, visit our merch store.

2208
02:00:07,439 --> 02:00:14,560
Speaker 4: And you're such a professional long and short of it, guys, Hey,

2209
02:00:14,560 --> 02:00:17,199
go join our Patreon, go buy your t shirts and stuff.

2210
02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:21,279
The Uh we're almost sold out of the second Waverley.

2211
02:00:20,840 --> 02:00:23,359
Speaker 6: Tour, I know, Oh my god, that thing is approaching.

2212
02:00:23,479 --> 02:00:25,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was like eight tickets left when I looked

2213
02:00:25,199 --> 02:00:27,439
the other day. And we might as well say that

2214
02:00:27,439 --> 02:00:29,159
the live event for Waverley is sold out.

2215
02:00:29,319 --> 02:00:33,880
Speaker 6: Yes, because Brohio or or Ohio things coming up really quick.

2216
02:00:34,359 --> 02:00:37,159
Speaker 4: Yep, absolutely, Bro how is in three weeks. There's still

2217
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:41,359
I think twenty tickets left for that, but yeah, the

2218
02:00:41,600 --> 02:00:45,279
Waverleys Louisville show, there's two tickets left, so that's pretty

2219
02:00:45,319 --> 02:00:45,840
much done.

2220
02:00:45,960 --> 02:00:48,800
Speaker 6: Hopefully by then it won't be snowing. Yeah, but the

2221
02:00:48,840 --> 02:00:49,920
hell Mother Night's.

2222
02:00:49,680 --> 02:00:53,560
Speaker 4: Tripping, Yeah, absolutely not. Then the biggest event of all

2223
02:00:53,600 --> 02:00:56,960
that we got coming on is Pottern Love in August. Yeah,

2224
02:00:57,239 --> 02:01:00,000
I'm excited about that. So here's the details on it.

2225
02:01:00,159 --> 02:01:03,119
Pottern Love is August tenth, eleventh, and twelfth of this

2226
02:01:03,239 --> 02:01:06,399
year at the Intercontinental Hotel. It's right on the edge

2227
02:01:06,399 --> 02:01:08,720
of the French Quarter, so it's only like five minutes

2228
02:01:08,760 --> 02:01:12,039
from all the good stuffs, the cool walking stuff. Listeners

2229
02:01:12,119 --> 02:01:15,520
can get tickets, book hotel rooms, and see which shows

2230
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:19,960
will be there by visiting www Dot pottern dot love.

2231
02:01:20,920 --> 02:01:23,880
So that's where you gotta go to. Www Dot pottern

2232
02:01:24,359 --> 02:01:27,680
dot love. We actually negotiated a room rate of one

2233
02:01:27,760 --> 02:01:29,760
hundred and twenty nine dollars a night for the hotel,

2234
02:01:29,880 --> 02:01:32,640
so that's phenomenal. That's I can't even tell you how

2235
02:01:32,720 --> 02:01:36,199
cheap that is for hotels in the oh, yeah, the

2236
02:01:36,199 --> 02:01:40,079
fifth Quarter. So go to the website, check out the

2237
02:01:40,119 --> 02:01:42,319
ticket prices and stuff, and when you find the tickets

2238
02:01:42,319 --> 02:01:45,279
that you want put in, he'll billy as the code

2239
02:01:45,319 --> 02:01:47,479
when you check out, and you'll save you a little

2240
02:01:47,479 --> 02:01:50,039
bit of money. Actually I think it's ten percent.

2241
02:01:50,279 --> 02:01:52,159
Speaker 6: Yeah, sounds like it sounds like a great deal to me.

2242
02:01:52,439 --> 02:01:52,600
Speaker 2: Yep.

2243
02:01:52,920 --> 02:01:55,439
Speaker 4: So go check it out and hopefully we'll see you

2244
02:01:55,479 --> 02:01:59,920
in August in the big easy, in the big pot.

2245
02:02:02,319 --> 02:02:07,920
We'll see you guys next week. Bye, Hey, Hillbilly's. If

2246
02:02:07,960 --> 02:02:09,920
you guys enjoy what we do here on the show

2247
02:02:09,960 --> 02:02:12,079
every week and appreciate all the hard work we put

2248
02:02:12,119 --> 02:02:15,439
into it, consider being word of our Patreon supporters. All

2249
02:02:15,479 --> 02:02:17,760
you got to do's go to our website Hillbilly Horror

2250
02:02:17,800 --> 02:02:20,840
Stories dot com, click on the tab for donations and

2251
02:02:20,880 --> 02:02:24,039
you'll see the Patreon link right there. Click on it

2252
02:02:24,159 --> 02:02:26,479
and you can go to our Patreon page. Then you

2253
02:02:26,520 --> 02:02:29,680
will have a decision to make. You can choose the

2254
02:02:29,720 --> 02:02:32,760
one dollar, the three dollars, the five dollars, or the

2255
02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:36,199
ten dollars donation. Each one gets you different things a month,

2256
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:40,560
but regardless, you get some free stuff. Just check out

2257
02:02:40,600 --> 02:02:43,560
the bonuses under each tier and you'll see what you

2258
02:02:43,640 --> 02:02:45,479
get for free for that month. But you'll get something

2259
02:02:45,479 --> 02:02:48,680
free regardless. Also, if you'd like to buy any Hillbilly

2260
02:02:48,680 --> 02:02:51,680
horror story merch, you're also in the right place on

2261
02:02:51,720 --> 02:02:54,680
the website Hillbilily Horror stories dot com. Just click on

2262
02:02:54,720 --> 02:02:57,359
the store page and see whatever it is that you like,

2263
02:02:57,720 --> 02:02:59,960
Click on a few links, send a little bit of money,

2264
02:03:00,199 --> 02:03:02,439
and your item will be on its way. Thank you

2265
02:03:02,439 --> 02:03:04,840
guys so much for all of your support. We love you,

2266
02:03:05,079 --> 02:03:07,159
we thank you, and we appreciate you.