WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:13.519 Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribunes trib Cast for Tuesday, 2 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.559 June second. I'm elean Or Klibanoff, Law and Politics. I'm 3 00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:19.480 Eleanor Clibanoff. 4 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:21.039 I'm sorry, did you get your title wrong? 5 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:27.879 My title wrong? Now it's my turn. Okay, I'm Eleanor Clivanoff. 6 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:29.760 Law, and you're not cutting out. Just to be clear, 7 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:31.239 I was starting. 8 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:35.880 Law and politics reporter joined as usual, but my co host, 9 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:39.640 Editor in chief Matthew Watkins, Hello, thanks for being. 10 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:41.799 I'm so happy to be here right now. You're having a. 11 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:46.600 Great day this week. We are going to be diving 12 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:48.719 into a topic that I think is very familiar to 13 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:52.280 a lot of people in Austin, particularly people who take 14 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:54.759 public transit or would like to be taking public transit, 15 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:58.359 and I think widely important to all Texans who would 16 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:00.920 like to see more public transit options in their cities 17 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:04.319 as well. We're going to be talking about Project Connect, 18 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:11.120 major public transit project that Austin voters approved property tax 19 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:15.079 increased to support in twenty twenty, and looking at where 20 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:19.519 things stand now. We are joined by Joshua Fector, the 21 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.000 Urban affairs reporter for the Texas Tribune, author of the 22 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:27.239 recent article, bigger price tag, smaller footprint. How Austin's Project 23 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.079 Connect went off the rails. Josh, thanks for being. 24 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:32.120 Here, Hey, thanks for having me. 25 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:37.400 We are also joined by Ashika Gangouli, the executive director 26 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:40.599 of Transit Forward, an independent nonprofit that partners with the 27 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:44.200 city to educate, engage, and provide accountability for the development 28 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:46.519 of Project Connect. Thanks for thanks for being here. 29 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:48.280 Of course, happy to be here. 30 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:50.879 So why don't we start with you Ashika? You can 31 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:54.239 sort of give us the original, big picture overview of 32 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:56.560 Project Connect, like what was the original plan and why 33 00:01:56.599 --> 00:01:58.680 did it feel like it was something that Austin needed. 34 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:03.000 Yeah, you know, I think our city for a long 35 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:06.519 time has had a little bit of a delayed reaction 36 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:08.919 when it comes up to keeping up with growth, both 37 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:14.680 in terms of transit, major transportation infrastructure and housing. I'm 38 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:17.280 born and raised at Austin, so I know many of 39 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:19.120 us that have been around for a while, and folks 40 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:22.080 longer than me have always seen this kind of like 41 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:24.000 if we don't build it, they won't come. 42 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:25.120 Attitude in our city. 43 00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:31.520 And so there was a much needed mechanism to try 44 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:34.360 to make an impact on our traffic issues and create 45 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:38.960 greater mobility and connectivity across the city for a long time, 46 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:42.840 and so Project Connect, I think, is really us trying 47 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:45.560 to play catch up in a sense and try to 48 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:48.800 retroactively get some of that connectivity that we've needed in 49 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:52.280 our city for a long time. And so light rail 50 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:56.840 has been posed to Austin voters as early as two thousand, 51 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:01.599 but most recently was passed and twenty twenty as part 52 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:06.599 of a ballot proposition, and the original the original proposal 53 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:12.080 was to build a world class transit system with ongoing 54 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:15.680 maintenance and operations to create greater connectivity and mobility for 55 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:21.520 the city of Austin. So you know, many aspects of 56 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:24.680 the city have changed since that was passed in twenty twenty. 57 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:27.719 Many aspects of our daily life have changed since twenty twenty. 58 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.039 But the city has made so many strides, especially in 59 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:36.280 terms of housing and creating greater affordability for living across 60 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.439 the city, and we are still working to catch up 61 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:42.400 to the transit side of that piece. So Project Connect 62 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:45.159 is a much needed investment to fill in those gaps 63 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:49.560 in connectivity in the city and we're working as a 64 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:53.240 city to try to deliver the mobility that we desperately need. 65 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:59.120 In Austin, and Josh, you know, you were digging into 66 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:01.560 this for this story. Where do things stand now with 67 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:05.400 this propose project that was initially approved in twenty twenty. 68 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:10.280 Sure, so, the voters in Austin in twenty twenty voted 69 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:14.159 for Project Connect. It was, you know, basically the seven 70 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:17.959 point one billion dollar expansion of the city's public transportation system. 71 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:23.720 Voters basically agreed to fund this expansion with a twenty 72 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:28.279 cent or not twenty percent increase in the city's property 73 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:33.439 tax rate. Basically, you've had all kinds of things attached 74 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:35.759 to it. You had high frequency bus routes, you had 75 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:40.040 expanded shuttle pickup service. Obviously, at the heart of this 76 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:44.120 was twenty miles of light rail. It was going to 77 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:48.800 go from you know, you know, sort of pretty deep 78 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:53.560 into North Austin and into South Austin. It would hit 79 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.480 ut Austin, it would hit the State Capital Complex, it 80 00:04:57.480 --> 00:04:59.319 would go downtown, and it would reach all the way 81 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:03.199 to the airport. But you know, as as the design 82 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:07.040 on this progressed following the vote, you know, costs increased. 83 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:11.120 The initial estimated cost of the light rail was five 84 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:14.759 point eight billion, and then in the years following the vote. 85 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:16.959 You know, that grew by about seventy five percent. So 86 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.160 to deal with those higher costs, officials had to claw 87 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.160 it back a bit. They had to cut the scope 88 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:26.439 from about twenty miles to less than ten. It'll no 89 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:29.360 longer reach the airport. The number of stops was cut 90 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:32.720 from twenty six to fifteen. And now the total project 91 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:36.519 will cost about eight point two billion dollars. And you 92 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:39.720 know that's at less than half the proposed length, the 93 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:43.319 initial proposed length. The costs are now something like eight 94 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:47.160 hundred and forty million dollars per mile. It's the costliest 95 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:50.720 public transit project per mile in the state's history. And 96 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:53.839 it's also among some of the most expensive light rail 97 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:57.040 projects in the country on a per mile basis. And 98 00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:00.639 now what it's facing is, you know, a couple of 99 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:04.399 things on a different, few different fronts. It needs about 100 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:07.839 four point one billion dollars in federal funds that it's 101 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:11.120 seeking from the Trump administration. And it's also trying to 102 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:15.199 beat back basically this legal fight over whether the property 103 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:18.480 tax mechanism itself that funds the project is legal. 104 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:24.160 Ashika, I mean, what's your perspective on where this stands 105 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:28.680 and sort of where things started to, as Josh's headline 106 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:30.480 puts it, you know, go off the rails in terms 107 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:33.120 of original footprint and the original cost. 108 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:37.560 Yeah, I mean, I think it's the feelings that folks 109 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:40.600 could be having are completely valid, and I completely. 110 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:41.759 Hear people where they're coming from. 111 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:44.639 As an Austin resident, as someone who voted for this 112 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:48.000 project in twenty twenty. It is in someone who talks 113 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:50.959 to people who want transit in our city so much 114 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:54.199 and so badly. It is frustrating to feel like there 115 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:58.240 was a big, grand plan in that what's currently happening 116 00:06:58.319 --> 00:06:59.199 is in quite. 117 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:00.519 Measuring up to that plan. 118 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:05.120 However, I think I speak for myself and I believe 119 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:08.079 many others in the city who believe that we want 120 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:10.199 to do something, and we want to do it now, 121 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:12.279 and we. 122 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:12.800 Talk a lot. 123 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:15.439 I talk a lot at Transit Forward about creating a 124 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:20.839 healthy transit ecosystem and that involves not just light rail, 125 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:24.040 and I talk a lot about we're not creating a 126 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:26.519 war on cars. We want to create a healthy transit 127 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:29.759 ecosystem where there are many options on the table. So 128 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:33.680 that includes single passenger car travel and carpooling, That includes 129 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.720 a light rail that includes our best rapid transit lines 130 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:40.199 that have recently come online that it's right. So that 131 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.600 includes our commuter rail, our micro transit options. So having 132 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:45.759 a little bit more of all of these options on 133 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:49.240 the table is always helpful to the mobility and the 134 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:50.439 traffic easeman. 135 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:50.759 Of our city. 136 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.240 I'll also say that a lot of the opponents saying 137 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:57.240 that we're getting much less of the original plan haven't 138 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.120 looked that closely at the maps. 139 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:01.399 You know, we're still getting. 140 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:06.000 Of the light rail stops that we're in the original plan. 141 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:10.040 And when thinking about supply chain issues that have come 142 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:15.120 about since COVID and how almost every major infrastructure project 143 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.040 in Texas and acrass the nation has up to seventy 144 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:21.600 percent increase in costs, The fact that we're still getting 145 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:24.839 the majority of our light rail plan, we're still getting 146 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:27.439 the majority of the other non light rail components of 147 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:32.000 Project Connect. And we've already seen the bus rapid transit 148 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:35.480 come online. We've already seen two new parking rids be constructed, 149 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:38.200 We've already seen two new pickup zones in the city 150 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:42.200 become constructed, and they're moving. 151 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:42.799 Like gang busters. 152 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:45.720 People are using the bus rapid transit at higher rates 153 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:49.159 than we've ever seen the Decker and Dove Springs pickup 154 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:51.240 zones that are being used at higher rates than we've 155 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:55.879 ever seen. These only show us that transit is needed, 156 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:59.720 it's wanted, and when the light rail comes online eventually, 157 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:02.919 I promise you that it's going to be used just 158 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:05.159 as much as those services. 159 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:09.000 So just you know, cards on the table here right, 160 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:14.000 like Josh, your your story it you know, it had 161 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:16.639 the headline, you know, talking about it going off the rails. 162 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:19.480 I think there were people, particularly supporters, people who are 163 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:24.399 very you know, of the more urbanist ilk who you know, 164 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:27.519 pushed back about against the idea in this story, but 165 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:30.039 also the broader narrative of you know that this is 166 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.240 a failure or that this is you know, a disaster, 167 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:35.159 and in terms of how this has rolled out, I 168 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:36.480 want to get into that, but I think there's a 169 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:39.360 really interesting conversation to have here. But let's just like, 170 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:43.000 let's let's stay a little bit for a little bit 171 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:45.759 on kind of how things have gotten more expensive than 172 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:50.559 expected and a smaller footprint than expected. As we've been talking, 173 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:54.399 I've like written down like four different potential culprits for this. 174 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.000 I think probably the accurate answer is that it's a 175 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:00.279 combination of these culprits. But to kind of s up 176 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:02.840 what you have already said, Josh, and what's in the article, 177 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:07.279 one being just bad timing. Right, this happens in twenty twenty. 178 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:13.480 Immediately after that, this pandemic comes and drives up prices, 179 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.879 the global supply train, the just the cost of building 180 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:20.919 these things got dramatically more expensive. That is unfortunate timing. Also, 181 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:24.039 at the same time, all these people moved to Austin 182 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.960 during the pandemic, and you know the price of real 183 00:10:27.080 --> 00:10:30.320 estate and all those things went up as well. I 184 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.159 assume probably had an impact on the cost. Then you 185 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:36.840 have just the broader something that Ashika you just touched on, 186 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:41.600 just it's really hard to build mass infrastructure and transit 187 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:45.000 projects in Texas and across the country. Right, Like, all 188 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:47.200 you have to do is look at the other sort 189 00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:52.679 of like whivving boy topic of transit, the California High 190 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:55.440 Speed Rail and how that has gone, and see that 191 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.159 this is not a problem that's particularly unique. 192 00:10:58.279 --> 00:10:58.480 Right. 193 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:03.879 I think everyone can can sort of see that those 194 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.600 two things are sort of indisputably true. There's two other 195 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.200 aspects to this that I'm interested in drilling into one is, 196 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:12.639 you know, there are a lot of people who have 197 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:17.120 sort of made the accusation that the people leading this project, 198 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:20.240 that the local government here is, you know, has shown 199 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.120 a certain amount of ineptitude in allowing this to happen, 200 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:26.720 and then sort of on the other side, a feeling 201 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.440 of you know, people who support this project saying that 202 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.840 you know, our state leadership, our representation in Congress, other 203 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:37.200 you know, is actively opposed to this and trying to 204 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:40.840 kind of throw up as many obstacles as possible from 205 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:43.840 making this happen. Josh, I wonder if you could just 206 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:48.200 sort of like lay out those two aspects, what are 207 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:51.799 the arguments for and against? You know, pointing to those 208 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:53.639 two culprits is kind of getting in the way of 209 00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:54.440 the development of this. 210 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:57.759 I think the big thing on the former, which is like, 211 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:04.120 did you know the locals basically over promise, you know, 212 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:07.559 regarding this project is you know that'll that'll be what 213 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:09.240 I'll tackle first on that. 214 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:12.799 The main thing that I would. 215 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:18.279 Point to there because you hear people critics specifically saying, 216 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:20.960 look like we thought we were getting this, we're in 217 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:24.120 fact getting this, and they call it a bait and switch, 218 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.279 and you know, in my reporting, you know what I 219 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:32.759 sort of understood was that part of the reason why 220 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:36.320 the costs went up so much, any big reason why 221 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:39.200 is because very little of it had been designed by 222 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:42.120 the time it went to the public. About five percent 223 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:45.960 of it had been designed by the time voters were 224 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:49.360 asked to green light Project Connect. And you know that 225 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:54.879 basically left the project vulnerable to not only would costs 226 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:58.720 have gone up already because of the small amount of design, 227 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.039 because as you progress that design, you figure out, like, 228 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.200 what are the other what are some unexpected costs that 229 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.480 are going to go up? Your costs are basically guaranteed 230 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:11.840 to go up at that level of design, Right, But 231 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:17.720 then you just go headlong into the inflationary environment of 232 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:20.759 like the COVID era, right, you have you know, big 233 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.799 jumps in supply chain costs, labor costs, the cost of 234 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.399 real estate, and Austin really went up. And you know, 235 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.519 I asked people like, look like, is this something that 236 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:35.360 you know Austin officials could have you know, baked a 237 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:40.440 little bit longer and you know, really solidified the design 238 00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:44.120 and thus really solidified the costs. And you know, what 239 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:46.679 you'll find is that this is basically a problem in 240 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:50.960 any major project, because localities basically don't have the money 241 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:55.360 to fully design a project before taking it to voters. Basically, 242 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:59.799 what you're asking them to do is put up money 243 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:04.240 to design the project further. And so that was a 244 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:09.919 big sort of driver of the costs that that happened 245 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:12.279 on the local side. In the meantime, on the state 246 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:17.039 and federal side, you do have state lawmakers trying to 247 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:21.960 throw up barriers to this project. State Representative Ellen trox 248 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:27.759 Claire in particular has repeatedly, you know, sought legislation that 249 00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:32.200 would basically, you know, make it harder for the project 250 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.879 to come to fruition if at all the Trump administration 251 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:40.159 is is not in a sort of giving mood in 252 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:43.919 terms of federal funds that the project needs. 253 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:44.639 Uh. 254 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:48.080 And you know, there's there's a certain argument that I 255 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:52.720 have people make that you know, the fact that you know, 256 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:57.360 Austin went this way with Project connect and asked for 257 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:01.600 specifically a property tax rate increase is in part because 258 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:04.559 the state does not pay for public transit. So it 259 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:09.360 is it is a collection of except we're basically just 260 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:11.720 working against this project from the get go. 261 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:17.600 I I hear that like loud and clear and you know, 262 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.240 I think the question of like, should there have been 263 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:23.360 a better estimate of the costs is a really interesting 264 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.759 one and it is really hard. It seems like too 265 00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:30.320 you know, a project that you know is going to 266 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.600 go out ten years maybe longer into the future, have 267 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:37.879 a really strong and solid, confident understanding of how much 268 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.200 that's going to cost. On the other hand, you know, 269 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:43.840 it does seem like there are signs, there are things 270 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:45.720 that you can point to to be like, is this 271 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.399 being run the most sufficiently efficient way possible? And Josh, 272 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:52.279 I will now go to something you've heard me talk 273 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:56.600 about many times, which is the mccaulla Place station on 274 00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:01.120 the Red Line in Austin. This is not a Project 275 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:04.720 connect project, but it feels like, in some ways illustrative 276 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:07.960 of some of the challenges here. Right for folks who 277 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.840 are who you know, are elsewhere in the state. They 278 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.039 might not know that. In June twenty nineteen, the Austin 279 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:19.279 City Council voted to bring Austin FC, the football the 280 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:24.840 soccer team here British football American soccer team here. 281 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:25.320 Yes. 282 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:29.279 And when they did that, they said they were going 283 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.519 to build a stadium on a piece of property called 284 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:35.200 mccaullough Place, which is up by the domain, the sort 285 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:38.399 of shopping center in Austin. There is a train line, 286 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.039 the one area of train that currently operates in the 287 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.720 city runs through this property. And the idea was the 288 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.480 team would build a stadium and cap Metro would build 289 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:54.200 a train station on that site. And the team built 290 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:59.519 the stadium and played three and a half seasons in 291 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:02.720 the stadium in the time it took to build the 292 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.880 McCall a Place station, which is essentially two slabs of 293 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.599 concrete and like some signs and a place to stop. 294 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:14.319 And that to me feels like a level of like 295 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:18.200 an indication of inefficiency of like how you see things happening, 296 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:21.400 you know, in the private sector compared to you know, 297 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:26.920 these government projects that just like didn't seem to operate 298 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.240 as quickly and effectively. And I think just like raises 299 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:32.960 these questions of like why is it so hard to 300 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.839 do these things? And why can we not build them 301 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.039 faster and more efficiently? And you know, I don't know, 302 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:43.359 I just I feel like I haven't received a great answer. 303 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:45.880 To that question yet. 304 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:49.079 Just you know, I'm not saying from you, Josh, or 305 00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:50.759 from either of y'all, but just like out there in 306 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:51.680 the world right. 307 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.200 Now, Like I mean ask, I'm curious from your perspective, 308 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.039 Like obviously that's not a project connect project, but like you, 309 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:58.519 I'm sure have to deal with a lot of like 310 00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:01.759 the people who say, like, well, the private industry, you know, 311 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:04.480 private industry can get a building up in ninety seconds, 312 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:07.079 Like why do things take longer when we're in the 313 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:10.200 public sector, Like what does sort of account for that gap? 314 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.079 Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with Joshua that we 315 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.039 have a lot of things working against us. That is 316 00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:19.559 a reality of the project. That's the reality of the 317 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:24.079 circumstances that we're in. I think if the private sector 318 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:26.119 was going to build some of these things for us, 319 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:31.000 a lot of people are waiting for this magical, you know, 320 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:35.319 private sector solution to transit into our traffic issues in Austin. 321 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.680 But we are the only ones who can do it. 322 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:42.440 And Mayor Watson often says, uh, you know, the most 323 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:47.599 expensive day is today. Sorry, the cheapest day is today, uh, 324 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.359 and then tomorrow will be even more expensive. So we 325 00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:53.119 we've got to invest in this now. And to your 326 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.599 point about the McCalla Place station, it did take long, 327 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:58.720 and it did take time to get it up and running. 328 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.440 But now that it's here, and now that that's been 329 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.680 invested in, it's used by folks all over the city 330 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.079 to get to games. It's completely packed to the gills 331 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:09.759 every weekend for soccer games. I have season tickets. I'm 332 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:12.960 there every weekend and taking the train, and people take 333 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:16.559 the train all the time. So, you know, I think 334 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:20.279 we need to be realistic about our expectations about the 335 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:23.960 timelines that we can deliver things, and about what we 336 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:28.440 can deliver and how. But we also need to invest 337 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:31.319 and care enough to put our money where our mouth 338 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:36.839 is and take the time to create these infrastructure projects 339 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:37.400 for our city. 340 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:37.839 Josh. 341 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.559 One of the things people have said in reaction to 342 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:45.359 this article, but also just the broader you know, pushback 343 00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:49.680 to Project Connect is that yes, it has come in 344 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.519 over budget. Yes maybe it is taking longer than we 345 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:58.319 would have liked, but that happens all the time with 346 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.400 highway projects and their developments like that, and and they 347 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.839 don't receive the same type of scrutiny in that realm. 348 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:08.400 Is there any truth to that argument? 349 00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:10.119 Uh? 350 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:17.000 It's when when I after the after the the story published, 351 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:18.880 you know, I went and looked at you know, some 352 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.440 of the promile costs of of you know, Texed, tex Dot, 353 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:28.119 you know, various projects, and I mean you do see 354 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:35.079 highway projects that do exceed the UH project connect light 355 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:36.720 rails promile. 356 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:39.039 Costs for example. Right. So this is this is. 357 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:43.279 Something that that has plagued all forms of transportation. 358 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:43.599 Right. 359 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:48.599 No, no major infrastructure project in the post COVID era 360 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:51.359 has been immune to like the post COVID shocks. Right, 361 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:57.119 So that affected highways, that affected public transit projects, that 362 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:00.720 affected you know, people's ability to build a house, right, 363 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.839 like every kind of project you can think of, Like 364 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:08.519 inflation hit it, right, and there was and there's there's 365 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:13.359 truth to that. I mean, obviously highway projects costs have 366 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:17.680 gone up, right, And but you know the other portion 367 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:19.880 of this that I'm that I'm thinking about sitting here 368 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:23.319 is that, you know, tex dot put out a report 369 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.799 last year saying that, hey, it turns out Texas does 370 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:29.279 need a lot more public transit if it's going to 371 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:32.640 continue to boom and if we're not all going to 372 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:37.799 angry at each other on the freeway. 373 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.319 Right. And you know, the. 374 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.680 What I see Austin's light rail project as is a 375 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:50.000 basically a test of that, Like can anybody in Texas 376 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:54.240 sort of build public transit the kinds of public transit 377 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:58.119 that you know, even the state's transportation planners say that, 378 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:02.839 you know, the state needs in order to build its 379 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:05.480 or or you know, to relieve congestion and to and 380 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:08.599 to move people, right, and so like, this is a 381 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:13.079 real test of that, And I wonder to what extent 382 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:17.319 you know, And this is also just like a test 383 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:21.599 of of you know, officials ability to sell public transit 384 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:28.079 right if you are if you're dealing with something where 385 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.839 we're thrown this much like, how how do you then 386 00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:34.799 sell that to the public. And I think that's a 387 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.480 real test for U for transit advocations. 388 00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:42.039 Well, sorry, do you mind if I piggyback off that? Sure? 389 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.640 Well, I totally agree with Joshua and your question earlier 390 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:53.000 also is talking about what makes public invest infrastructure private investment, 391 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.599 And I think one of those pieces that comes to 392 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:59.359 light with Project connect is accountability. There's so many different 393 00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:04.079 entities at play, both you know atp kat Metro, the 394 00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:06.400 City of Austin, and then our state partners and our 395 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:10.119 federal partners, and so all of these entities are providing 396 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:13.920 accountability checks and measures on each other checks and balances 397 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:18.160 on each other, and the public is also providing accountability. 398 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.839 So to Joshua's point, I think public perception has a 399 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.359 huge part to play in this project. And there are 400 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:31.000 many vocal proponents and many many vocal opponents of the project, 401 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:33.880