Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribunes trib Cast for Tuesday,
Speaker 1: June second. I'm elean Or Klibanoff, Law and Politics. I'm
Speaker 1: Eleanor Clibanoff.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, did you get your title wrong?
Speaker 1: My title wrong? Now it's my turn. Okay, I'm Eleanor Clivanoff.
Speaker 2: Law, and you're not cutting out. Just to be clear,
Speaker 2: I was starting.
Speaker 1: Law and politics reporter joined as usual, but my co host,
Speaker 1: Editor in chief Matthew Watkins, Hello, thanks for being.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here right now. You're having a.
Speaker 1: Great day this week. We are going to be diving
Speaker 1: into a topic that I think is very familiar to
Speaker 1: a lot of people in Austin, particularly people who take
Speaker 1: public transit or would like to be taking public transit,
Speaker 1: and I think widely important to all Texans who would
Speaker 1: like to see more public transit options in their cities
Speaker 1: as well. We're going to be talking about Project Connect,
Speaker 1: major public transit project that Austin voters approved property tax
Speaker 1: increased to support in twenty twenty, and looking at where
Speaker 1: things stand now. We are joined by Joshua Fector, the
Speaker 1: Urban affairs reporter for the Texas Tribune, author of the
Speaker 1: recent article, bigger price tag, smaller footprint. How Austin's Project
Speaker 1: Connect went off the rails. Josh, thanks for being.
Speaker 3: Here, Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: We are also joined by Ashika Gangouli, the executive director
Speaker 1: of Transit Forward, an independent nonprofit that partners with the
Speaker 1: city to educate, engage, and provide accountability for the development
Speaker 1: of Project Connect. Thanks for thanks for being here.
Speaker 4: Of course, happy to be here.
Speaker 1: So why don't we start with you Ashika? You can
Speaker 1: sort of give us the original, big picture overview of
Speaker 1: Project Connect, like what was the original plan and why
Speaker 1: did it feel like it was something that Austin needed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I think our city for a long
Speaker 5: time has had a little bit of a delayed reaction
Speaker 5: when it comes up to keeping up with growth, both
Speaker 5: in terms of transit, major transportation infrastructure and housing. I'm
Speaker 5: born and raised at Austin, so I know many of
Speaker 5: us that have been around for a while, and folks
Speaker 5: longer than me have always seen this kind of like
Speaker 5: if we don't build it, they won't come.
Speaker 4: Attitude in our city.
Speaker 5: And so there was a much needed mechanism to try
Speaker 5: to make an impact on our traffic issues and create
Speaker 5: greater mobility and connectivity across the city for a long time,
Speaker 5: and so Project Connect, I think, is really us trying
Speaker 5: to play catch up in a sense and try to
Speaker 5: retroactively get some of that connectivity that we've needed in
Speaker 5: our city for a long time. And so light rail
Speaker 5: has been posed to Austin voters as early as two thousand,
Speaker 5: but most recently was passed and twenty twenty as part
Speaker 5: of a ballot proposition, and the original the original proposal
Speaker 5: was to build a world class transit system with ongoing
Speaker 5: maintenance and operations to create greater connectivity and mobility for
Speaker 5: the city of Austin. So you know, many aspects of
Speaker 5: the city have changed since that was passed in twenty twenty.
Speaker 5: Many aspects of our daily life have changed since twenty twenty.
Speaker 5: But the city has made so many strides, especially in
Speaker 5: terms of housing and creating greater affordability for living across
Speaker 5: the city, and we are still working to catch up
Speaker 5: to the transit side of that piece. So Project Connect
Speaker 5: is a much needed investment to fill in those gaps
Speaker 5: in connectivity in the city and we're working as a
Speaker 5: city to try to deliver the mobility that we desperately need.
Speaker 1: In Austin, and Josh, you know, you were digging into
Speaker 1: this for this story. Where do things stand now with
Speaker 1: this propose project that was initially approved in twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Sure, so, the voters in Austin in twenty twenty voted
Speaker 3: for Project Connect. It was, you know, basically the seven
Speaker 3: point one billion dollar expansion of the city's public transportation system.
Speaker 3: Voters basically agreed to fund this expansion with a twenty
Speaker 3: cent or not twenty percent increase in the city's property
Speaker 3: tax rate. Basically, you've had all kinds of things attached
Speaker 3: to it. You had high frequency bus routes, you had
Speaker 3: expanded shuttle pickup service. Obviously, at the heart of this
Speaker 3: was twenty miles of light rail. It was going to
Speaker 3: go from you know, you know, sort of pretty deep
Speaker 3: into North Austin and into South Austin. It would hit
Speaker 3: ut Austin, it would hit the State Capital Complex, it
Speaker 3: would go downtown, and it would reach all the way
Speaker 3: to the airport. But you know, as as the design
Speaker 3: on this progressed following the vote, you know, costs increased.
Speaker 3: The initial estimated cost of the light rail was five
Speaker 3: point eight billion, and then in the years following the vote.
Speaker 3: You know, that grew by about seventy five percent. So
Speaker 3: to deal with those higher costs, officials had to claw
Speaker 3: it back a bit. They had to cut the scope
Speaker 3: from about twenty miles to less than ten. It'll no
Speaker 3: longer reach the airport. The number of stops was cut
Speaker 3: from twenty six to fifteen. And now the total project
Speaker 3: will cost about eight point two billion dollars. And you
Speaker 3: know that's at less than half the proposed length, the
Speaker 3: initial proposed length. The costs are now something like eight
Speaker 3: hundred and forty million dollars per mile. It's the costliest
Speaker 3: public transit project per mile in the state's history. And
Speaker 3: it's also among some of the most expensive light rail
Speaker 3: projects in the country on a per mile basis. And
Speaker 3: now what it's facing is, you know, a couple of
Speaker 3: things on a different, few different fronts. It needs about
Speaker 3: four point one billion dollars in federal funds that it's
Speaker 3: seeking from the Trump administration. And it's also trying to
Speaker 3: beat back basically this legal fight over whether the property
Speaker 3: tax mechanism itself that funds the project is legal.
Speaker 1: Ashika, I mean, what's your perspective on where this stands
Speaker 1: and sort of where things started to, as Josh's headline
Speaker 1: puts it, you know, go off the rails in terms
Speaker 1: of original footprint and the original cost.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think it's the feelings that folks
Speaker 5: could be having are completely valid, and I completely.
Speaker 4: Hear people where they're coming from.
Speaker 5: As an Austin resident, as someone who voted for this
Speaker 5: project in twenty twenty. It is in someone who talks
Speaker 5: to people who want transit in our city so much
Speaker 5: and so badly. It is frustrating to feel like there
Speaker 5: was a big, grand plan in that what's currently happening
Speaker 5: is in quite.
Speaker 4: Measuring up to that plan.
Speaker 5: However, I think I speak for myself and I believe
Speaker 5: many others in the city who believe that we want
Speaker 5: to do something, and we want to do it now,
Speaker 5: and we.
Speaker 4: Talk a lot.
Speaker 5: I talk a lot at Transit Forward about creating a
Speaker 5: healthy transit ecosystem and that involves not just light rail,
Speaker 5: and I talk a lot about we're not creating a
Speaker 5: war on cars. We want to create a healthy transit
Speaker 5: ecosystem where there are many options on the table. So
Speaker 5: that includes single passenger car travel and carpooling, That includes
Speaker 5: a light rail that includes our best rapid transit lines
Speaker 5: that have recently come online that it's right. So that
Speaker 5: includes our commuter rail, our micro transit options. So having
Speaker 5: a little bit more of all of these options on
Speaker 5: the table is always helpful to the mobility and the
Speaker 5: traffic easeman.
Speaker 4: Of our city.
Speaker 5: I'll also say that a lot of the opponents saying
Speaker 5: that we're getting much less of the original plan haven't
Speaker 5: looked that closely at the maps.
Speaker 4: You know, we're still getting.
Speaker 5: Of the light rail stops that we're in the original plan.
Speaker 5: And when thinking about supply chain issues that have come
Speaker 5: about since COVID and how almost every major infrastructure project
Speaker 5: in Texas and acrass the nation has up to seventy
Speaker 5: percent increase in costs, The fact that we're still getting
Speaker 5: the majority of our light rail plan, we're still getting
Speaker 5: the majority of the other non light rail components of
Speaker 5: Project Connect. And we've already seen the bus rapid transit
Speaker 5: come online. We've already seen two new parking rids be constructed,
Speaker 5: We've already seen two new pickup zones in the city
Speaker 5: become constructed, and they're moving.
Speaker 4: Like gang busters.
Speaker 5: People are using the bus rapid transit at higher rates
Speaker 5: than we've ever seen the Decker and Dove Springs pickup
Speaker 5: zones that are being used at higher rates than we've
Speaker 5: ever seen. These only show us that transit is needed,
Speaker 5: it's wanted, and when the light rail comes online eventually,
Speaker 5: I promise you that it's going to be used just
Speaker 5: as much as those services.
Speaker 6: So just you know, cards on the table here right,
Speaker 6: like Josh, your your story it you know, it had
Speaker 6: the headline, you know, talking about it going off the rails.
Speaker 6: I think there were people, particularly supporters, people who are
Speaker 6: very you know, of the more urbanist ilk who you know,
Speaker 6: pushed back about against the idea in this story, but
Speaker 6: also the broader narrative of you know that this is
Speaker 6: a failure or that this is you know, a disaster,
Speaker 6: and in terms of how this has rolled out, I
Speaker 6: want to get into that, but I think there's a
Speaker 6: really interesting conversation to have here. But let's just like,
Speaker 6: let's let's stay a little bit for a little bit
Speaker 6: on kind of how things have gotten more expensive than
Speaker 6: expected and a smaller footprint than expected. As we've been talking,
Speaker 6: I've like written down like four different potential culprits for this.
Speaker 6: I think probably the accurate answer is that it's a
Speaker 6: combination of these culprits. But to kind of s up
Speaker 6: what you have already said, Josh, and what's in the article,
Speaker 6: one being just bad timing. Right, this happens in twenty twenty.
Speaker 6: Immediately after that, this pandemic comes and drives up prices,
Speaker 6: the global supply train, the just the cost of building
Speaker 6: these things got dramatically more expensive. That is unfortunate timing. Also,
Speaker 6: at the same time, all these people moved to Austin
Speaker 6: during the pandemic, and you know the price of real
Speaker 6: estate and all those things went up as well. I
Speaker 6: assume probably had an impact on the cost. Then you
Speaker 6: have just the broader something that Ashika you just touched on,
Speaker 6: just it's really hard to build mass infrastructure and transit
Speaker 6: projects in Texas and across the country. Right, Like, all
Speaker 6: you have to do is look at the other sort
Speaker 6: of like whivving boy topic of transit, the California High
Speaker 6: Speed Rail and how that has gone, and see that
Speaker 6: this is not a problem that's particularly unique.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 6: I think everyone can can sort of see that those
Speaker 6: two things are sort of indisputably true. There's two other
Speaker 6: aspects to this that I'm interested in drilling into one is,
Speaker 6: you know, there are a lot of people who have
Speaker 6: sort of made the accusation that the people leading this project,
Speaker 6: that the local government here is, you know, has shown
Speaker 6: a certain amount of ineptitude in allowing this to happen,
Speaker 6: and then sort of on the other side, a feeling
Speaker 6: of you know, people who support this project saying that
Speaker 6: you know, our state leadership, our representation in Congress, other
Speaker 6: you know, is actively opposed to this and trying to
Speaker 6: kind of throw up as many obstacles as possible from
Speaker 6: making this happen. Josh, I wonder if you could just
Speaker 6: sort of like lay out those two aspects, what are
Speaker 6: the arguments for and against? You know, pointing to those
Speaker 6: two culprits is kind of getting in the way of
Speaker 6: the development of this.
Speaker 3: I think the big thing on the former, which is like,
Speaker 3: did you know the locals basically over promise, you know,
Speaker 3: regarding this project is you know that'll that'll be what
Speaker 3: I'll tackle first on that.
Speaker 2: The main thing that I would.
Speaker 3: Point to there because you hear people critics specifically saying,
Speaker 3: look like we thought we were getting this, we're in
Speaker 3: fact getting this, and they call it a bait and switch,
Speaker 3: and you know, in my reporting, you know what I
Speaker 3: sort of understood was that part of the reason why
Speaker 3: the costs went up so much, any big reason why
Speaker 3: is because very little of it had been designed by
Speaker 3: the time it went to the public. About five percent
Speaker 3: of it had been designed by the time voters were
Speaker 3: asked to green light Project Connect. And you know that
Speaker 3: basically left the project vulnerable to not only would costs
Speaker 3: have gone up already because of the small amount of design,
Speaker 3: because as you progress that design, you figure out, like,
Speaker 3: what are the other what are some unexpected costs that
Speaker 3: are going to go up? Your costs are basically guaranteed
Speaker 3: to go up at that level of design, Right, But
Speaker 3: then you just go headlong into the inflationary environment of
Speaker 3: like the COVID era, right, you have you know, big
Speaker 3: jumps in supply chain costs, labor costs, the cost of
Speaker 3: real estate, and Austin really went up. And you know,
Speaker 3: I asked people like, look like, is this something that
Speaker 3: you know Austin officials could have you know, baked a
Speaker 3: little bit longer and you know, really solidified the design
Speaker 3: and thus really solidified the costs. And you know, what
Speaker 3: you'll find is that this is basically a problem in
Speaker 3: any major project, because localities basically don't have the money
Speaker 3: to fully design a project before taking it to voters. Basically,
Speaker 3: what you're asking them to do is put up money
Speaker 3: to design the project further. And so that was a
Speaker 3: big sort of driver of the costs that that happened
Speaker 3: on the local side. In the meantime, on the state
Speaker 3: and federal side, you do have state lawmakers trying to
Speaker 3: throw up barriers to this project. State Representative Ellen trox
Speaker 3: Claire in particular has repeatedly, you know, sought legislation that
Speaker 3: would basically, you know, make it harder for the project
Speaker 3: to come to fruition if at all the Trump administration
Speaker 3: is is not in a sort of giving mood in
Speaker 3: terms of federal funds that the project needs.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 3: And you know, there's there's a certain argument that I
Speaker 3: have people make that you know, the fact that you know,
Speaker 3: Austin went this way with Project connect and asked for
Speaker 3: specifically a property tax rate increase is in part because
Speaker 3: the state does not pay for public transit. So it
Speaker 3: is it is a collection of except we're basically just
Speaker 3: working against this project from the get go.
Speaker 6: I I hear that like loud and clear and you know,
Speaker 6: I think the question of like, should there have been
Speaker 6: a better estimate of the costs is a really interesting
Speaker 6: one and it is really hard. It seems like too
Speaker 6: you know, a project that you know is going to
Speaker 6: go out ten years maybe longer into the future, have
Speaker 6: a really strong and solid, confident understanding of how much
Speaker 6: that's going to cost. On the other hand, you know,
Speaker 6: it does seem like there are signs, there are things
Speaker 6: that you can point to to be like, is this
Speaker 6: being run the most sufficiently efficient way possible? And Josh,
Speaker 6: I will now go to something you've heard me talk
Speaker 6: about many times, which is the mccaulla Place station on
Speaker 6: the Red Line in Austin. This is not a Project
Speaker 6: connect project, but it feels like, in some ways illustrative
Speaker 6: of some of the challenges here. Right for folks who
Speaker 6: are who you know, are elsewhere in the state. They
Speaker 6: might not know that. In June twenty nineteen, the Austin
Speaker 6: City Council voted to bring Austin FC, the football the
Speaker 6: soccer team here British football American soccer team here.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 6: And when they did that, they said they were going
Speaker 6: to build a stadium on a piece of property called
Speaker 6: mccaullough Place, which is up by the domain, the sort
Speaker 6: of shopping center in Austin. There is a train line,
Speaker 6: the one area of train that currently operates in the
Speaker 6: city runs through this property. And the idea was the
Speaker 6: team would build a stadium and cap Metro would build
Speaker 6: a train station on that site. And the team built
Speaker 6: the stadium and played three and a half seasons in
Speaker 6: the stadium in the time it took to build the
Speaker 6: McCall a Place station, which is essentially two slabs of
Speaker 6: concrete and like some signs and a place to stop.
Speaker 6: And that to me feels like a level of like
Speaker 6: an indication of inefficiency of like how you see things happening,
Speaker 6: you know, in the private sector compared to you know,
Speaker 6: these government projects that just like didn't seem to operate
Speaker 6: as quickly and effectively. And I think just like raises
Speaker 6: these questions of like why is it so hard to
Speaker 6: do these things? And why can we not build them
Speaker 6: faster and more efficiently? And you know, I don't know,
Speaker 6: I just I feel like I haven't received a great answer.
Speaker 2: To that question yet.
Speaker 6: Just you know, I'm not saying from you, Josh, or
Speaker 6: from either of y'all, but just like out there in
Speaker 6: the world right.
Speaker 1: Now, Like I mean ask, I'm curious from your perspective,
Speaker 1: Like obviously that's not a project connect project, but like you,
Speaker 1: I'm sure have to deal with a lot of like
Speaker 1: the people who say, like, well, the private industry, you know,
Speaker 1: private industry can get a building up in ninety seconds,
Speaker 1: Like why do things take longer when we're in the
Speaker 1: public sector, Like what does sort of account for that gap?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with Joshua that we
Speaker 5: have a lot of things working against us. That is
Speaker 5: a reality of the project. That's the reality of the
Speaker 5: circumstances that we're in. I think if the private sector
Speaker 5: was going to build some of these things for us,
Speaker 5: a lot of people are waiting for this magical, you know,
Speaker 5: private sector solution to transit into our traffic issues in Austin.
Speaker 4: But we are the only ones who can do it.
Speaker 5: And Mayor Watson often says, uh, you know, the most
Speaker 5: expensive day is today. Sorry, the cheapest day is today, uh,
Speaker 5: and then tomorrow will be even more expensive. So we
Speaker 5: we've got to invest in this now. And to your
Speaker 5: point about the McCalla Place station, it did take long,
Speaker 5: and it did take time to get it up and running.
Speaker 5: But now that it's here, and now that that's been
Speaker 5: invested in, it's used by folks all over the city
Speaker 5: to get to games. It's completely packed to the gills
Speaker 5: every weekend for soccer games. I have season tickets. I'm
Speaker 5: there every weekend and taking the train, and people take
Speaker 5: the train all the time. So, you know, I think
Speaker 5: we need to be realistic about our expectations about the
Speaker 5: timelines that we can deliver things, and about what we
Speaker 5: can deliver and how. But we also need to invest
Speaker 5: and care enough to put our money where our mouth
Speaker 5: is and take the time to create these infrastructure projects
Speaker 5: for our city.
Speaker 2: Josh.
Speaker 6: One of the things people have said in reaction to
Speaker 6: this article, but also just the broader you know, pushback
Speaker 6: to Project Connect is that yes, it has come in
Speaker 6: over budget. Yes maybe it is taking longer than we
Speaker 6: would have liked, but that happens all the time with
Speaker 6: highway projects and their developments like that, and and they
Speaker 6: don't receive the same type of scrutiny in that realm.
Speaker 6: Is there any truth to that argument?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: It's when when I after the after the the story published,
Speaker 3: you know, I went and looked at you know, some
Speaker 3: of the promile costs of of you know, Texed, tex Dot,
Speaker 3: you know, various projects, and I mean you do see
Speaker 3: highway projects that do exceed the UH project connect light
Speaker 3: rails promile.
Speaker 2: Costs for example. Right. So this is this is.
Speaker 3: Something that that has plagued all forms of transportation.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: No, no major infrastructure project in the post COVID era
Speaker 3: has been immune to like the post COVID shocks. Right,
Speaker 3: So that affected highways, that affected public transit projects, that
Speaker 3: affected you know, people's ability to build a house, right,
Speaker 3: like every kind of project you can think of, Like
Speaker 3: inflation hit it, right, and there was and there's there's
Speaker 3: truth to that. I mean, obviously highway projects costs have
Speaker 3: gone up, right, And but you know the other portion
Speaker 3: of this that I'm that I'm thinking about sitting here
Speaker 3: is that, you know, tex dot put out a report
Speaker 3: last year saying that, hey, it turns out Texas does
Speaker 3: need a lot more public transit if it's going to
Speaker 3: continue to boom and if we're not all going to
Speaker 3: angry at each other on the freeway.
Speaker 2: Right. And you know, the.
Speaker 3: What I see Austin's light rail project as is a
Speaker 3: basically a test of that, Like can anybody in Texas
Speaker 3: sort of build public transit the kinds of public transit
Speaker 3: that you know, even the state's transportation planners say that,
Speaker 3: you know, the state needs in order to build its
Speaker 3: or or you know, to relieve congestion and to and
Speaker 3: to move people, right, and so like, this is a
Speaker 3: real test of that, And I wonder to what extent
Speaker 3: you know, And this is also just like a test
Speaker 3: of of you know, officials ability to sell public transit
Speaker 3: right if you are if you're dealing with something where
Speaker 3: we're thrown this much like, how how do you then
Speaker 3: sell that to the public. And I think that's a
Speaker 3: real test for U for transit advocations.
Speaker 4: Well, sorry, do you mind if I piggyback off that? Sure?
Speaker 5: Well, I totally agree with Joshua and your question earlier
Speaker 5: also is talking about what makes public invest infrastructure private investment,
Speaker 5: And I think one of those pieces that comes to
Speaker 5: light with Project connect is accountability. There's so many different
Speaker 5: entities at play, both you know atp kat Metro, the
Speaker 5: City of Austin, and then our state partners and our
Speaker 5: federal partners, and so all of these entities are providing
Speaker 5: accountability checks and measures on each other checks and balances
Speaker 5: on each other, and the public is also providing accountability.
Speaker 5: So to Joshua's point, I think public perception has a
Speaker 5: huge part to play in this project. And there are
Speaker 5: many vocal proponents and many many vocal opponents of the project,
Speaker 5: And so even the fact that we're sitting here having
Speaker 5: this conversation right now is a measure of accountability for
Speaker 5: this project. And when we're using citizens' money. When we're
Speaker 5: using public money to fund a project, it does require
Speaker 5: a lot more scrutiny, a lot more accountability, and a
Speaker 5: lot more time to sit and talk about the benefits
Speaker 5: and the measures and are.
Speaker 4: We doing everything we can be.
Speaker 5: We've already seen entities between the City of Austin and
Speaker 5: atp ASK Questions provide checks and balances on one another.
Speaker 5: We're seeing the federal government provide some checks on us
Speaker 5: right now as they go through our funding process and
Speaker 5: decide when and where we can get our fund federal
Speaker 5: dollars for the project. So I think all of those
Speaker 5: create a timeline that's different from a private project, and hopefully,
Speaker 5: well we can get it done and deliver this to
Speaker 5: the people of Austin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think like the implication in your question, Matthew, right,
Speaker 1: is like that this is getting particular scrutiny because it's
Speaker 1: public transit, and that like people don't have issues with
Speaker 1: cost overruns on like you know, highway expansions, which like
Speaker 1: they do, right, I mean I think people, yes, people
Speaker 1: are generally our government is generally more permissive to car
Speaker 1: base transit.
Speaker 6: We're not talking about like whether the legislature next year
Speaker 6: will like come in and like shut down all highway
Speaker 6: construction because it's come over over budget and the way,
Speaker 6: but that could happen possibly.
Speaker 1: Yes, And also like it's not that like Project Connect
Speaker 1: has been running completely smoothly without any hiccups and they
Speaker 1: just are trying to take it out back and shoot it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that on those grounds alone, exactly, I bet you know.
Speaker 2: And on the other hand, like one of.
Speaker 6: The most effective ways to get public support behind transit
Speaker 6: would be to have a public that's confident that it
Speaker 6: could be built in a way that you know will
Speaker 6: be done efficiently and you know actually you know, serve
Speaker 6: the needs of the people trying to get around and
Speaker 6: and you know, I think it's it's worth asking the
Speaker 6: question whether you know the leaders in Austin have succeeded
Speaker 6: in meeting that bar right.
Speaker 1: I mean, like she could go back to something you
Speaker 1: said early on is like, you know when people are
Speaker 1: critical that this is sort of a smaller footprint like that,
Speaker 1: Well when you look at it closely, like that it
Speaker 1: is going to be all these great things, which I
Speaker 1: think is true. But also that is a smaller footprint
Speaker 1: than originally imagined in this phase one like those it
Speaker 1: will generate. You know, Yes, it sounds like us are
Speaker 1: on track to accomplish all these great things that is
Speaker 1: less than what was originally intended. So I mean, how
Speaker 1: do you sort of when you get pushed back about well, yes,
Speaker 1: but we were promised this many miles. We're getting this
Speaker 1: many miles, Like, how do you sort of square that?
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think it's a difficult conversation to have with people,
Speaker 5: and I think, you know, it's the former teacher in me.
Speaker 5: I need to validate people's feelings. First, we're all a
Speaker 5: little frustrated, and that's okay.
Speaker 4: But the thing I always.
Speaker 5: Come back to is that we need to put down
Speaker 5: the heart of the system, and once we have step
Speaker 5: one built, every step coming off of that heart of
Speaker 5: the system is going to be that much easier to extend.
Speaker 5: We talk a lot about the airport extension, we talk
Speaker 5: about the North extension. Both of those things will be
Speaker 5: much easier to do once the heart of the system
Speaker 5: is in place. We've already seen that with our redline
Speaker 5: rail we had. You know, it took a long time
Speaker 5: to get that initial rail line in place. But now
Speaker 5: we have our North Burnett station, that maybe the mccaulle
Speaker 5: station open, We're doing double tracking at other stations. All
Speaker 5: of those things are happening in a more expedited fashion,
Speaker 5: and they're happening easier once we had the initial system
Speaker 5: in place. So we're going to see that with light rail.
Speaker 5: We're seeing that with our best system. We're seeing that
Speaker 5: with all the other things in place, and I think,
Speaker 5: you know transit and our light rail system, it does
Speaker 5: have a pr problem. A lot of people don't really
Speaker 5: know what's going on behind the scenes with the project,
Speaker 5: and so that's kind of my job as an independent
Speaker 5: nonprofit partner is to go around and tell people what's
Speaker 5: going on behind the scenes, and we try our best
Speaker 5: to do that. But you know, y'all spoke earlier about
Speaker 5: is the city officials delivering what the people want. And
Speaker 5: I can speak from my own experience to just the
Speaker 5: amount of community engagement that I've seen on the part
Speaker 5: of cat Metro and ATP is really astounding. They have
Speaker 5: endless focus groups that they do with community members, the
Speaker 5: public input process that they did for the NEPA process
Speaker 5: and to receive federal funding, the amount of comments that
Speaker 5: they sifted through, and I have seen them make changes
Speaker 5: to the plans for the system based on the public inputs.
Speaker 5: So what I want people to know is that your
Speaker 5: city officials are listening to you.
Speaker 4: We know you're frustrated. I say we.
Speaker 5: I'm not a city official, but they know you're frustrated.
Speaker 5: But they also know that we need this and they're
Speaker 5: ready to hear you and they're ready to deliver.
Speaker 1: I mean, this project has also had, you know, sort
Speaker 1: of some pr issues beyond just the like like you said,
Speaker 1: some of these things that are plaguing all of these
Speaker 1: transit projects across the country. I mean, there was sort
Speaker 1: of a bruhaha earlier this year about the ATP wanting
Speaker 1: to move into these very expensive offices that was Lee
Speaker 1: are backed off. There's these lawsuits that are you know,
Speaker 1: being filed against the project, including by some people who
Speaker 1: supported the project initially. I mean, it does seem like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's getting faced, this project is facing a
Speaker 1: lot of headwinds. Do you feel like a shida, like
Speaker 1: everyone is sort of on the same page, like keep
Speaker 1: this rowing in the same direction despite some of these
Speaker 1: internal external squabbles.
Speaker 4: Yes, for the most part.
Speaker 5: I mean, of course, there are vocal opponents. In my
Speaker 5: time in and around the community, I believe that this
Speaker 5: is a vocal minority. And I will say that even
Speaker 5: proponents of the project have things that they like to
Speaker 5: see done differently, that they like to see done better.
Speaker 5: But we all come back to the same answer at
Speaker 5: the end of the day, is that this is a
Speaker 5: necessary investment for Austin, and it's only going to get
Speaker 5: more expensive from here. So we you know, and we
Speaker 5: are seeing it with the choices that are public is
Speaker 5: making across the city. We're seeing it with the types
Speaker 5: of with the types of council members that we're voting
Speaker 5: in to the Austin City Council. We're seeing it with
Speaker 5: the housing choices that are being made around the city.
Speaker 5: This is a city that wants that once a system
Speaker 5: of transit that can connect them from one side of
Speaker 5: the city to the other, and they want it done quickly.
Speaker 6: To your point, right, the the the vote was you know,
Speaker 6: by a pretty decent margin. Back when this happened, right,
Speaker 6: there was a signal that people said, you know, they
Speaker 6: want more options and able to get around in this city,
Speaker 6: and that you know, the point that you made, the
Speaker 6: point that Mayor Watson has made several times, is like
Speaker 6: that sort of like first step of getting that first track,
Speaker 6: the first system running is often the hardest part, and
Speaker 6: it seems like, you know, the aim here is to
Speaker 6: get that done and the hope then that will be
Speaker 6: easier from then. You know, we've we've seen you know,
Speaker 6: other cities with more mature systems, Dart for example, up
Speaker 6: up in DFW, up in Dallas. You know, in that situation.
Speaker 6: We had three cities vote earlier this year on whether
Speaker 6: to you know, pull out from that system. Two of
Speaker 6: them may be a bit surprisingly given you know where
Speaker 6: we thought this was headed, you know, decided to stay
Speaker 6: in right and and so you know, once this becomes
Speaker 6: sort of like part of the fabric of people's lives,
Speaker 6: once we've kind of developed that muscle of building and
Speaker 6: done it, maybe it will be a different situation. It's
Speaker 6: just there seems to be a race of like, let's
Speaker 6: of the people supporting this, of like let's get this done,
Speaker 6: let's not push it back any further so we can
Speaker 6: kind of move into that expansion stage as opposed to
Speaker 6: the development stage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I am curious, Josh. Like you, you
Speaker 1: live in Dallas, other cities in Texas, I mean are
Speaker 1: working on their own public transit projects, either sort of
Speaker 1: from scratch ish the way Austin is, or building on
Speaker 1: existing systems. I mean, what are the takeaways, Like if
Speaker 1: you don't live in Austin but you care about public
Speaker 1: transit from Project Connect, My.
Speaker 3: Biggest takeaway for other cities.
Speaker 2: Is, you know, you know a lot of our.
Speaker 3: Public transit systems in this state, I mean specifically talking
Speaker 3: about rail, right, would be that it costs a lot
Speaker 3: to put rail in places where people are going.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Part of the reason why the Austin light roll project
Speaker 3: is so expensive is because, like it runs through the
Speaker 3: heart of the city and it's going to build a
Speaker 3: bridge across Ladybird Lake. And you know, the reason they
Speaker 3: put it there was that or they're trying to put
Speaker 3: it there. The reason that they're that they went that
Speaker 3: route is because that's where the big destinations are, that's
Speaker 3: where people are going, existing transit ridership is, and that's
Speaker 3: where a lot of your your you know, existing traffic is.
Speaker 3: So if you're going to build transit in places where
Speaker 3: people are trying to go, it's going to be costly
Speaker 3: to do that in a in a big public urban environment.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And so you know, we see with Dart at the
Speaker 3: moment right where you know that that system there talks
Speaker 3: about trying to expand it all the way to McKinney.
Speaker 3: My my sense from from efforts to basically if you're
Speaker 3: trying to expand public transit here is that you know,
Speaker 3: are are you putting it where people are trying to
Speaker 3: go or are you you know, basically creating a system
Speaker 3: that that goes nowhere.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Part of the reason why I mentioned this earlier Austin
Speaker 3: is one of the most expensive light rail projects in
Speaker 3: the in the state is in part because the way
Speaker 3: that other systems got built was, you know, it was
Speaker 3: built on existing train right of way, it was built
Speaker 3: away from sort of like the big traffic corridors. And
Speaker 3: so Dart system was built that way and it was built,
Speaker 3: or at least the initial system was, and so it
Speaker 3: was built a lot cheaper, right, And so if if
Speaker 3: you're going to you know, figure out like how is it?
Speaker 3: If like you take the text dot you know, gavel
Speaker 3: that's been thrown down and say, hey, we're going to
Speaker 3: try to build public transit, You're basically your task is basically,
Speaker 3: how do you how do you get this into places
Speaker 3: where people want to go too? How do you do
Speaker 3: that in a cost effective way? And figure out is
Speaker 3: that possible?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it seemed like the Dallas model. There's
Speaker 6: two ways of going about this. There's the build transit
Speaker 6: in areas and hope development pops up around it, and
Speaker 6: then you can move between those different areas or build
Speaker 6: it where the people already are. That the latter is
Speaker 6: a lot harder, and we're seeing that it also might
Speaker 6: be more effective. We will see in getting more people
Speaker 6: to write it.
Speaker 1: Certainly. I think, you know, Akisha, I'm I'm hoping you
Speaker 1: can sort of round this out and give us a
Speaker 1: sense of like what is next, Like where what can
Speaker 1: people who are paying for this with their property taxes,
Speaker 1: people who are supporting this project, maybe some of the
Speaker 1: skeptics like, what are like markers of success that they
Speaker 1: can sort of look ahead to in the coming months years.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think that we're actually doing a little
Speaker 5: bit of both to your point, where we're putting the
Speaker 5: light rail in the busiest areas of Austin, but also
Speaker 5: hoping that new development continues to grow around it. There
Speaker 5: are going to be a lot of transit oriented development
Speaker 5: projects already slated to happen in the next you know,
Speaker 5: ten twenty years around the hubs of the project that
Speaker 5: we're going to see come online. As far as markers
Speaker 5: of success, you know, we've already started doing some pre
Speaker 5: construction work that happened just a few weeks ago. We've
Speaker 5: awarded contracts, We're going to award the contract for the
Speaker 5: actual light rail vehicles this June. So seeing those real
Speaker 5: concrete steps to getting the system online is going to
Speaker 5: be real markers of success. Another big one is when
Speaker 5: we break round in twenty twenty seven, people will see
Speaker 5: that we are serious about this work, it's happening, and
Speaker 5: then hopefully when we receive our federal funding, that's going
Speaker 5: to be a real measure of success too. But I
Speaker 5: also want to really some of the good things that
Speaker 5: have already happened. Our project received a medium high rating
Speaker 5: from the FTA, which is one of the highest for
Speaker 5: a project like ours ever. We also completed the NIPA
Speaker 5: process in two years, which is a new record for
Speaker 5: going through that federal funding process. And so many of
Speaker 5: the non light rail project connect investments, as I've already
Speaker 5: mentioned today, I've already come online, are already paying dividends
Speaker 5: for our city, and so I want people to feel
Speaker 5: encouraged by that progress. We're seeing record numbers of writership
Speaker 5: on a lot of the new services, We're seeing new
Speaker 5: red line stations come online, and as we continue to
Speaker 5: make steps towards our light rail, which will be a
Speaker 5: really transformational, never seen before project for our city, I
Speaker 5: want people to feel encouraged by that work as well.
Speaker 5: And just know that your city officials are working very
Speaker 5: hard behind the scenes with one another and to get
Speaker 5: public input from you. Keep your eye on social media pages,
Speaker 5: keep your eye on the ATP on Transit Forward on
Speaker 5: all of our websites and social media, to keep your
Speaker 5: keep up today with what's going on with the project.
Speaker 5: And when there are community input opportunities focus groups or
Speaker 5: online surveys, fill it out, let us know what you're
Speaker 5: thinking and what you'd like to see come from the system.
Speaker 1: Great. Thank you, Thank you both for joining us for
Speaker 1: this conversation. I think a topic will be continuing to
Speaker 1: discuss in the months and years forthcoming. You can find
Speaker 1: Josh's whole article at the Texas Tribune website. And that
Speaker 1: is it for this week's episode of the trip Cast.
Speaker 1: We will be back next week. Our producers are Rob
Speaker 1: and Chris. You can find us anywhere you get podcasts
Speaker 1: and on YouTube.