1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,679 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting producer, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,839 and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my 4 00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:15,800 experience as the brother of a murder victim to help 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,600 other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:21,440 on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co 7 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:24,760 administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:25,519 Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,079 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the 11 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:35,840 social media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,560 Murders Facebook page with my partner in crime. 13 00:00:38,359 --> 00:00:48,079 Speaker 4: Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly. 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: And I'm Bill Thomas, and we're. 15 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,399 Speaker 4: Joined today by Jim Clemente, retired FBI profiler and writer, 16 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,960 producer on CBS's Criminal Minds and host of Real Crime Profile. 17 00:00:57,399 --> 00:01:00,840 And Laura Richards, behavioral analyst from New Scotland and host 18 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,600 of Real Crime Profile and Crime Analyst, here to talk 19 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,480 about the FBI pressor on January eighth about the new 20 00:01:07,519 --> 00:01:11,200 breaks in the Colonial Parkway murders cases. Jim and Laura, 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,000 thank you so much for joining us today. 22 00:01:13,719 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 5: Great to be here. Thank you, great to be here. 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,239 Speaker 6: If you recall we talked Bill back in twenty sixteen 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,879 about this case and about the murder of your sister 25 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:30,120 and her girlfriend and three other double homicides that happened 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,519 along the Colonial Parkway back in the late eighties. 27 00:01:34,239 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: And we'll link to those episodes of Real Crime Profile. 28 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,439 And we can't thank the two of you enough for 29 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,439 being here. We know your time is valuable and your 30 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,599 insight in particular, the two of you bring I don't 31 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,599 know how many years worth of law enforcement experience to 32 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,000 the table, but we can't thank you enough. This is 33 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,359 one of those situations where our heads are spinning, quite frankly. 34 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,439 This past Monday, January eighth, twenty twenty four, the Virginia 35 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:06,120 State Police FBI and the Hampton, Virginia Police Department had 36 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:11,280 a press conference. We ended up with probably far more 37 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,199 questions than we received answers, because it felt like the 38 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,800 presentation was very confusing. Both of you had a chance 39 00:02:19,879 --> 00:02:22,520 to take a look at some of the press conference. 40 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,240 What did you make of it? 41 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 7: I watched it and I tweeted about it immediately after 42 00:02:29,039 --> 00:02:32,199 texting you, Bill and also looking for what you were 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,120 saying about it, because I have to say I was 44 00:02:34,199 --> 00:02:38,879 confused and it was a very confusing press conference. I 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,439 couldn't quite work out why they weren't referring to the 46 00:02:41,439 --> 00:02:45,319 Colonial Parkway murders. They talked about the Isle of Wight 47 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,639 murders and they were referencing David Nobling and Robin Edwards, 48 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,759 and then talked about another case that was linked to 49 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,479 Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. And that was a great development 50 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:01,560 to hear that there was suspect identified that he has 51 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,759 he was deceased, So it wasn't that this is a 52 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,680 man hunt or a live investigation. It was we are 53 00:03:08,719 --> 00:03:11,719 confirming that there is a suspect identified who was Alan 54 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,800 Wade Wilmer Senior, age sixty three, but he died in 55 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:19,439 twenty seventeen, and he was responsible DNA confirmed for the 56 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,319 nineteen eighty seven attack and murder of David Nobling and 57 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,319 Robin Edwards. And there was a sexual component to the 58 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,560 Robin Edwards' case. And in nineteen eighty nine he strangled, 59 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,479 raped and murdered Teresa Howell, who was twenty nine and 60 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,319 that happened in Hampton. So I hadn't heard of Teresa 61 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,240 Howe before, so I was very curious about that case. 62 00:03:41,319 --> 00:03:46,840 But given its strangulation, rape and murder, my immediate question 63 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,719 was about how many other victims are there? What about Kathy? 64 00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:54,240 What about Becky? What about all the other cases that 65 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,199 we've discussed as part of the Colonial Parkway murders. It 66 00:03:57,199 --> 00:03:59,840 also made me think about what about Lolly Winans and 67 00:04:00,039 --> 00:04:03,280 Judy Williams that happened ten years later that I've talked 68 00:04:03,319 --> 00:04:06,159 about extensively on Crime Analyst and spoken to both of 69 00:04:06,199 --> 00:04:09,520 you about. But it was just very confusing. I felt 70 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,159 there was some distance by the FBI in calling it 71 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,720 the Isle of Wight murders, and it meant that people 72 00:04:16,759 --> 00:04:19,560 would be confused, because if I was confused and I 73 00:04:19,639 --> 00:04:22,480 knew about the case, what would that mean for the public. 74 00:04:22,519 --> 00:04:24,920 And it probably meant that other people didn't join the dots, 75 00:04:24,959 --> 00:04:27,759 and it didn't get as much attention as it should 76 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,959 because what they were trying to call upon was for 77 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:35,079 the public to help timeline this very prolific perpetrator. So 78 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,480 if your aim is to timeline someone, you put out 79 00:04:38,519 --> 00:04:43,279 accurate information. You're very clear you want the public's help, 80 00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:45,839 so you have to create trust and confidence. You can't 81 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,600 have people sat there thinking, hang on a minute, wait 82 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,240 is this part of this other series or what's going on? 83 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,959 Because that's a distraction. So I was concerned, and I 84 00:04:54,959 --> 00:04:57,000 did want to know about Kathy and Becky, and they 85 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,720 did say the investigation is ongoing. It's been ongoing for 86 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,199 many decades. Jim, I don't know how you We talked 87 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,120 in the morning that it was coming, and what did 88 00:05:08,199 --> 00:05:08,600 you think. 89 00:05:09,639 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 6: I spoke to Bill before the press conference, and so 90 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,079 I had an idea of what was coming, and then 91 00:05:16,519 --> 00:05:18,600 what I saw of the press conference, I didn't see 92 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,279 it coming. What I saw was confusion and obfuscation and 93 00:05:22,399 --> 00:05:27,439 actually some things that I thought we were outright wrong incorrect, 94 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,120 like a statement that was made that because there was 95 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,920 no felonies on Wilmer's record, that they couldn't legally collect 96 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:38,600 DNA to test it against the DNA that was found 97 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,560 in these murder scenes, which is it's just an out 98 00:05:41,639 --> 00:05:45,639 and out bullshit lie. 99 00:05:45,879 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 5: That's just not true at all. 100 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 6: You don't need anything of the subject's criminal record, you 101 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,279 don't need anything. He could be a stellar citizen, but 102 00:05:56,399 --> 00:06:00,680 you can grab his garbage, because that's actually a band property, 103 00:06:01,079 --> 00:06:03,480 and you could test items in his garbage, or you 104 00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:06,000 could follow him and when he discards a coke can 105 00:06:06,199 --> 00:06:09,560 like they did in the Golden State killer case, you 106 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,519 can collect that and then get the DNA off of it, 107 00:06:12,639 --> 00:06:16,800 and then you can get a warrant to actually collect 108 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:21,199 his da officially by doing a bugle swab, for example, 109 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,319 and confirm it. But this is just that's just wrong, 110 00:06:25,399 --> 00:06:27,439 that's just not true. They did not have to wait 111 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,279 till he died. That sounded like a flimsy, bullshit excuse 112 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,920 to me. But the important thing is that not only 113 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,920 was he tied to the murder of Teresa Howell, but 114 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,600 also to the murder of two of the victims that 115 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:50,720 have been classically identified as Colonial Parkway murder victims, and 116 00:06:50,759 --> 00:06:53,800 that was Robin Edwards and David Noblin. But there are 117 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,680 still three other double homicides in that case. I don't 118 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,199 know if this was some they're obfuscating about the fact 119 00:07:02,199 --> 00:07:07,560 that the Nobling and Edwards cases were related to the 120 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,079 Colonial Parkway murders. 121 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 5: I don't know if they were trying. 122 00:07:11,759 --> 00:07:14,959 Speaker 6: Not to mention it or harp on it because they 123 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,519 didn't want to basically put words in people's mouths or 124 00:07:19,759 --> 00:07:23,720 get people to who doesn't don't really know information to 125 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,879 call in. I don't know if they were afraid of 126 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,480 the hype or something, but it's just as you said, Laura, 127 00:07:29,639 --> 00:07:35,120 if you're actually looking for help to solve unsolved homicides 128 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,279 and they're in a series that everybody knows about in 129 00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:42,240 the area and in fact probably the nation, why would 130 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,360 you avoid it. It just doesn't make any sense unless 131 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,079 they're hiding something. Maybe they have more information and they 132 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,120 want to hold it back. I don't know, but I 133 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,240 hope that it's a legitimate law enforcement purpose and it 134 00:07:55,319 --> 00:07:59,040 isn't just in confidence at this point, because, like you said, 135 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,279 I left that press conference more confused about what was 136 00:08:03,319 --> 00:08:04,839 going on than when I started it. 137 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: Our listeners were the same way. We have over twenty 138 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:13,199 thousand followers on two different Facebook pages, Colonial Parkway Murders 139 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,199 and mind Over Murder this podcast, and our listeners were 140 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,000 so baffled they were like, is this part of the 141 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,879 Colonial Parkway murders or not? And actually the announcement that 142 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,000 Alan Wade Wilmer Senior has been identified as the killer 143 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:35,240 of these three individuals confirms that the Colonial Parkway murders 144 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,600 series is real, and that this couple, Robin Edwards and 145 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:45,360 David Knobling, we now have identified their killer. People were 146 00:08:45,399 --> 00:08:49,120 asking us why are they calling this by another name? 147 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,759 Even my partner Pamela, who is not following the case 148 00:08:53,039 --> 00:08:56,960 as closely as Kristin and I are, she finally watched 149 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,639 the press conference with me about ten pm that Monday night, 150 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,919 and she said, why are they not calling this case 151 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,840 by its proper name, the name that hundreds of thousands 152 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:14,120 of people in the area. No press people contacted us afterwards, 153 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,360 and they were like, they didn't even make it clear 154 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,279 what it was that they were going to talk about, 155 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:24,919 which actually held down reduced the number of press people 156 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,080 who showed up for the press conference because it wasn't 157 00:09:28,159 --> 00:09:30,360 very clear what the heck it was they were going 158 00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:31,440 to be talking about that day. 159 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 6: Yeah, it was a mistake, and it is an anomaly 160 00:09:35,759 --> 00:09:39,960 to have a press conference led by a press liaison 161 00:09:40,039 --> 00:09:44,399 officer rather than by the lead law enforcement agencies that 162 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,600 are involved in the investigation. I believe that they might 163 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:52,120 have spoken later, but to lead off with just by 164 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:56,600 a press officer and then to refuse to answer specific 165 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,120 questions about the investigation. When you have a case that 166 00:10:00,279 --> 00:10:05,080 is clearly a deceased offender, there's no reason to be 167 00:10:05,919 --> 00:10:10,159 hiding the ball anymore. When in solved cases they said 168 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,000 he would be charged if you were still alive, then 169 00:10:13,039 --> 00:10:14,840 there's no reason to hide this stuff. 170 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 2: That was my reaction to Jim, And I'm glad you 171 00:10:17,759 --> 00:10:20,559 used that expression because I actually, when I finally got 172 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,840 a chance to watch the press conference hours later, for 173 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,360 reasons that we can get into, I said, why is 174 00:10:27,399 --> 00:10:31,919 the FBI playing hide the ball? M h there deliberately, 175 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,679 I believe, not being clear on what the heck it 176 00:10:35,759 --> 00:10:36,799 is we're talking about. 177 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,759 Speaker 6: Well, Bill, I don't know if your conversations with the 178 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,039 FBI or these other investigatory agencies include more information about 179 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,720 the case and the murder of your sister and some 180 00:10:47,759 --> 00:10:50,879 of these other Colonial Parkway murders. And I know if 181 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:52,919 that's the case, and you're not allowed to share, you're 182 00:10:52,919 --> 00:10:53,600 not allowed. 183 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,159 Speaker 5: To share, and that's great, we'll certainly honor that. 184 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 6: But the fact that they did not notify you that 185 00:11:00,519 --> 00:11:04,039 this press conference was going to happen when clearly it 186 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,480 is related to the Colonial Parkway murders and your sister's 187 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,840 case therefore is an important part of this, and you 188 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,879 as one of the surviving not only one of the 189 00:11:15,039 --> 00:11:19,960 surviving family members, but as one of the leading liaisons 190 00:11:20,039 --> 00:11:23,720 between law enforcement and the other families involved in the 191 00:11:23,759 --> 00:11:26,360 Colonial Parkway murders, you would think that you would be 192 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:30,000 put high on the priority list in terms of official 193 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,799 notification by law enforcement. 194 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 2: We received no notification whatsoever. Now, I want to be clear, 195 00:11:36,639 --> 00:11:42,399 the other families did receive notification. I pointedly did not. 196 00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:46,159 So Kristin Dilly and I were not informed. The other 197 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,919 families were informed. 198 00:11:48,799 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 7: And when you say other families, you're talking about David 199 00:11:51,039 --> 00:11:56,399 Nobling and Robin Edwards. Their families were informed. They did 200 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:57,799 know about what was coming. 201 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,919 Speaker 2: And Teresa Howe and other Colonial Parkway murders families in addition. 202 00:12:04,519 --> 00:12:08,159 Speaker 7: Yes, yes, in addition with the exception of yourself, which 203 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:13,919 to me is just absolutely outrageous. I cannot understand how 204 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,159 that could be a decision that is taken and then 205 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,480 executed when you have been such a pivotal part, particularly 206 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,399 being a spokesperson across We spoke to you in twenty sixteen, 207 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,080 we were the first to speak to you on Real 208 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,600 Crime profile about the case, and you always made sure 209 00:12:30,639 --> 00:12:33,679 you talked about the other families as well, and I 210 00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:36,000 just cannot understand why they would take that decision. And 211 00:12:36,039 --> 00:12:39,559 I'm horrified that you didn't know about the detail of 212 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,399 what was coming, because you have to psychologically prepare yourself 213 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,559 as well. It's not just about getting the information, it's 214 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,279 about being psychologically prepared for what you're going to hear, 215 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,039 what's going out to the public domain, what other people 216 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,720 are going to hear, and what they're going to ask 217 00:12:53,799 --> 00:12:54,360 you about. 218 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 2: This very odd thing happened with our longtime case agent. 219 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,519 I've been dealing with this agent for ten years. I 220 00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:06,159 hold her in very high regard. She texted me at 221 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,200 I think it's about seven point thirty on Monday morning. 222 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,200 Now I knew the press conference was coming. Kristin and 223 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:17,279 I had received advance word from other media sources. From 224 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,159 media sources, yes, but no one in law enforcement contacted us. 225 00:13:22,039 --> 00:13:25,840 I actually knew about the content of much of the 226 00:13:25,879 --> 00:13:30,600 press conference several months in advance, again from a media contact, 227 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,600 so I actually knew suspects names and some of what 228 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:40,480 was going to be said in January, as early as October, 229 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,519 and Kristin and I share information. Of course, we wanted 230 00:13:44,519 --> 00:13:48,840 to be respectful of the process and not interfere with 231 00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:52,639 an active investigation, and no announcement was being made at 232 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,159 that point, so Kristin and I committed that we weren't 233 00:13:55,159 --> 00:13:58,320 going to say anything to anyone, and we didn't. So 234 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,279 we sat on this information for si several months. Moving 235 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,039 back to Monday morning, we received word and Kristin reached 236 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:06,360 out to me and she said, there's going to be 237 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,399 a press conference on Monday. And then a short while later, 238 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,440 Kristin sent me some information and even Kristin Dilley, who's 239 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,320 an expert, she wrote to me a text and said, 240 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,039 is this the press conference we were waiting for? It doesn't 241 00:14:22,039 --> 00:14:26,039 even mention the Colonial Parkway murders now, And so the 242 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,120 confusion started from that point, and then back to the 243 00:14:30,159 --> 00:14:33,759 outreach from my FBI agent. She reached out to me 244 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,240 and texted me and asked me if I would be 245 00:14:36,279 --> 00:14:38,759 available to speak to her at one point thirty PM. 246 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,600 At this point, Kristin and I didn't know what time 247 00:14:41,679 --> 00:14:44,080 the press conference was. And the only reason I'm getting 248 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,159 into this level of detail is she then set a 249 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,679 time to talk with me six hours in advance, and 250 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,559 we realized the press conference was going to be at 251 00:14:53,559 --> 00:14:56,039 the same time. I actually texted the agent back and said, 252 00:14:56,399 --> 00:14:59,919 is your intention for us to watch the press conference together? 253 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,559 She set up this call for one thirty pm. Kristen 254 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,080 comes back to me and says, you know, it appears 255 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,720 the press conference is at one thirty pm. I texted 256 00:15:08,759 --> 00:15:11,080 the agent back and said, is your intention were supposed 257 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,360 to watch this together? And she said no. So we 258 00:15:14,519 --> 00:15:19,000 had a fantastic, in depth private briefing. Some of the information. Jim, 259 00:15:19,039 --> 00:15:21,519 you know that I can't share at this point as 260 00:15:21,559 --> 00:15:23,639 a family member and the brother of a murder victim. 261 00:15:23,679 --> 00:15:26,440 I do try to be respectful. I know they ding 262 00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:29,320 me on this every single time they can, but I 263 00:15:29,399 --> 00:15:34,240 do actually try not to be a source of information 264 00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:37,679 before it's appropriate. But we talked for two hours, the 265 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,480 agent and nine. But that was during the exact moment 266 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,720 when the press conference is going on, And you think 267 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,120 to yourself later, huh, it's almost like they didn't want 268 00:15:47,159 --> 00:15:50,559 me to watch the press conference. Laurie, you were saying 269 00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:53,720 you were trying to reach me, or why was I 270 00:15:53,799 --> 00:15:58,679 radio silent during the press conference? You were already texting 271 00:15:58,759 --> 00:15:59,960 about the conference. 272 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 7: Yes, I found it very odd Bill that I was 273 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,519 trying to message you and putting stuff out on social 274 00:16:06,559 --> 00:16:09,080 media and seeing your reaction, because for me, I just 275 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,080 found it confusing. I posted that on social media, just saying, 276 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,559 somewhat confusing presser, but a suspect has been identified. I 277 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:18,399 wanted to get the information out there to help law enforcement, 278 00:16:19,159 --> 00:16:22,320 but I was very confused. I was very distracted by 279 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,559 what we weren't hearing about and why it was being 280 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,720 done in the way that it was, And now hearing 281 00:16:26,759 --> 00:16:29,399 that you were asked to speak at the exact time, 282 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,759 it just feels intentional to me, and I feel really uncomfortable. 283 00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:36,159 I've been grinding my teeth. I hope listeners haven't heard 284 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,519 that on the microphone, but just hearing you say those 285 00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:42,360 things have been grinding my teeth, and just I find 286 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,279 it maddening because you could have that conversation with her 287 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,840 at any other point, and you have been a trusted 288 00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:50,879 person across all of this time. You've always been respectful, 289 00:16:50,919 --> 00:16:53,720 in my opinion, and when there are things that cannot 290 00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:57,240 be discussed, you're very clear about that. So on the 291 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,960 day that is so important for you to hear information, 292 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,720 you don't get the heads up about what's coming out. 293 00:17:02,759 --> 00:17:05,359 But then your time is being monopolized at the exact 294 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,519 time the rest of the world hearing what's going on. 295 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,640 I don't know, Jim. It just feels really uncomfortable. 296 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 6: It feels deliberate, and I think I have some clarity 297 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,319 on it based on what Bill said and what you 298 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,359 just said, Laura, and what Kristin said. 299 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:24,799 Speaker 5: I believe that it is probably a deliberate. 300 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 6: Attempt to keep Bill and Kristen from making any kind 301 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,279 of public statements about this case. 302 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:36,559 Speaker 5: That she was that this FBI agent was not authorized. 303 00:17:36,079 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 6: Or didn't want to say anything to Bill until it 304 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,960 was actually made public, so that's why she started the 305 00:17:42,039 --> 00:17:45,119 call at the same time as the press conference, and 306 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,839 that she did not she they singled out Bill as 307 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,359 one of the family members and didn't give him any 308 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,640 advance warning of what was going to that the press 309 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,799 conference was going to happen, or that what it was. 310 00:17:57,759 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 5: Going to contain. 311 00:17:59,079 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 6: They didn't want to give him any of that information 312 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,960 in advance because they know he does a podcast and 313 00:18:04,039 --> 00:18:07,920 he is he does speak publicly about this case. He 314 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,920 wants to keep it in public's mind so that it 315 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,640 puts pressure on law enforcement to continue working the case. 316 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,640 But he's always totally respectful in terms of what when 317 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,759 they say this can't go out, he doesn't let it 318 00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:22,839 go out, And so they shouldn't have put him in 319 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,359 this category. They should have treated him like the other 320 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,880 victims' family members, and he should have been at least 321 00:18:30,079 --> 00:18:33,319 given some advanced notice not only of the press conference, 322 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,119 but advanced notice of what it would contain, so that 323 00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:39,319 he would be able to prepare. As you said, Laura, 324 00:18:39,839 --> 00:18:43,119 because this is a serious life event. This is not 325 00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:45,799 just a game. And I don't like the fact that 326 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,400 it appears that she was playing games. 327 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 4: The whole thing just feels very contrived and really very manipulative. 328 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,839 And as Bill and I were speaking, I was fortunately 329 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,799 my schedule at school allowed me to be off at 330 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:07,160 a time when I could go home and run this 331 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,319 presser through my computer and then I could start doing 332 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,079 all the social media stuff that we do. And I 333 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,279 called Bill as I was speeding my way home to 334 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,640 get here to watch this press conference, and we were debating, 335 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,319 do we maybe let the FBI agents call go to 336 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,759 voicemail so that he can watch the presser? Like, how 337 00:19:29,799 --> 00:19:32,839 are we going to deal with that? And ultimately we 338 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,720 decided it's better for him to take that call, and 339 00:19:35,839 --> 00:19:38,160 I can always watch the press conference, which I did, 340 00:19:38,319 --> 00:19:40,200 and record it and transcribe it to send it to 341 00:19:40,279 --> 00:19:43,079 him later. But I really don't like the fact that 342 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,240 Bill was put in that position, because, as you said, Jim, 343 00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:49,119 it's a major life event for him and he needed 344 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,599 to be able to watch it in real time and 345 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,000 process it and ask questions. And I think the reason 346 00:19:55,079 --> 00:19:57,200 that she had him on the phone was so that 347 00:19:57,279 --> 00:19:59,720 he couldn't watch it and couldn't ask questions at that point. 348 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 2: And the weird thing is, I've been dealing with this 349 00:20:02,519 --> 00:20:06,319 agent for ten years and normally she texts me and 350 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,960 we've talked I don't know hundreds, but it's probably we 351 00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:15,839 talk a lot, and she's been incredibly helpful and hard 352 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:16,960 working and dedicated. 353 00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:19,039 Speaker 5: Our usual mo is. 354 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 2: She texts me and says, can we talk? And I 355 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,079 do my damnedest to stop what I'm doing and call 356 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,359 her immediately, a five minute turnaround kind of thing, because 357 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,480 she's a very important person in my world. She has information, 358 00:20:35,519 --> 00:20:38,559 not every single time, but she tells me what's going 359 00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:42,680 on with my sister, Kathy Thomas, Rebecca Dowski, and the 360 00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:48,079 other Colonial Parkway murder victims, what's going on, and especially 361 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,799 with Kathy and Becky, So for her to reach out 362 00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:54,400 to me the first thing in the morning to set 363 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,559 up a call at one thirty pm. Even at the 364 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,119 moment I received the text and I wrote back and said, yes, 365 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,839 of course, I thought to myself, since when are we 366 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,119 setting up calls six hours in advance? 367 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 5: Bill. I just think it was deliberate. I think that 368 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:13,960 a decision was made somewhere. 369 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 6: I don't know if it was her decision or above 370 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,440 her or another agency to keep. 371 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 5: You in the dark until that moment. 372 00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 6: And that's why she called you, and that's why she 373 00:21:21,759 --> 00:21:23,839 spent two hours on the phone with you so that 374 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,559 you could get this information. But she deliberately did not 375 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,559 want or somebody deliberately did not want you to have 376 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,480 any information at all about this press conference or about 377 00:21:34,519 --> 00:21:37,720 what they were going to say in advance. I think 378 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,319 that's what it boils down to. 379 00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:42,519 Speaker 7: Ill just weigh in that you're not the enemy here, 380 00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:45,119 and I think that needs to be made clear. You've 381 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,480 never been the enemy. You've always been the person that's 382 00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:50,359 been respectful everything I've seen of you over the years 383 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,759 that i've known you, You've always been very respectful of 384 00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:56,559 information and what goes out and when. And I do 385 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,559 think trust and confidence works both ways. That if you 386 00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:02,519 want to create trust and confidence, you have to put 387 00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:05,720 it into that person too, and I think that is 388 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,640 unfortunately not the right way to do it. And to 389 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,319 put you in the dark of what other people are 390 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,720 absorbing and understanding and put you on the back foot. 391 00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:17,839 That really doesn't work well. And I think the whole 392 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,480 press conference unfortunately didn't really work well because the timeline 393 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,119 you're trying to get information out from the public. You 394 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,079 want information from them to timeline this individual. But there 395 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,920 were just so many question marks. As to one of 396 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,759 the media people asked, can you explain how Alan Wade 397 00:22:35,799 --> 00:22:42,079 Wilmer Senior became known to you? No, said the press officer. 398 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,559 And it was an immediate shutdown, and it was stark. 399 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,960 And look, there are times when you have to control 400 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,759 information and the flow of information. But let's be clear, 401 00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:56,880 this perpetrator is deceased. He is not alive. It's not 402 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,240 about compromising a man hunt or an investigation that's ongoing. 403 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,200 At this point. They're trying to rely on the public 404 00:23:05,279 --> 00:23:07,839 and on both of you the same as us. Why 405 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,079 we want to talk about the case is to amplify it, 406 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,119 to make sure that people know about Alan Wade Wilmerth Senior. 407 00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:16,039 They know about who he is, that he was on 408 00:23:16,079 --> 00:23:18,200 the water, he was a waterman, he was a hunter, 409 00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:20,359 he had a truck, and we'll go into all of that, 410 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,039 but we want to put that information out there. You 411 00:23:23,079 --> 00:23:26,440 don't want people to be puzzled or distracted by these 412 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,880 other things going on. But I sense, my read of it, 413 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,279 why this press conference happened in this way is because 414 00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:35,440 there's some real ugly horror stories that lurk behind it. 415 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:36,319 Speaker 6: I e. 416 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 7: A man like Alan Wade Wilmerth Senor does not at 417 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,000 the age of thirty three just start attacking two people 418 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,599 who are together, David and Robin and sexually assault Robin. 419 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,319 And that is never going to be the first offense. 420 00:23:53,559 --> 00:23:56,160 So there's going to be lots of things that he 421 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,880 most likely did before and lots of things that And 422 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,680 we know about one potential murder and of course there's 423 00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:07,000 information and there's intelligence, but we do know about other 424 00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:09,400 cases that he was and one in particular where he 425 00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:13,839 was the prime suspect, and if that's what they're guarding, Unfortunately, 426 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,599 they have to be more transparent being more transparent. Actually 427 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,079 increases trust and confidence from the public. It increases trust 428 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,599 and confidence from the families. This is my experience of 429 00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:27,119 twenty seven years working with families who say, we know 430 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,680 sometimes human era happens. We know sometimes you get things 431 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,400 wrong right, But if you try and hide it, if 432 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,720 you cover things up, that does not sit well, and 433 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:40,119 the cover up is worse than the actual event itself. 434 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,079 That's my experience of working with hundreds and hundreds of families. 435 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,759 So I can understand that you might feel on the 436 00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:50,119 back foot of things, and I'm really sorry that happened, 437 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,039 because you don't deserve that. Actually, Bill, you've been a 438 00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:59,160 really incredible and tremendous spokesperson for not just your sister, 439 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,440 not just an advocate for Kathy and Becky, but for 440 00:25:01,519 --> 00:25:05,440 all the families. And I've always thought incredibly highly of 441 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,559 you for that. You've been a tremendous advocate. So I'm 442 00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:11,920 sorry that there seems to be some kind of strategy 443 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,279 to keep you in the dark and to monopolize your time. 444 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,640 I don't think that's helpful a tool in this case. 445 00:25:17,559 --> 00:25:21,559 Speaker 2: I was on a conference call with the FBI investigators 446 00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:24,640 a couple of years ago, and I get exasperated from 447 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,839 time to time, and I'm not proud of that, and 448 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,440 my mom wouldn't be terribly proud of me either, But 449 00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:32,240 I got so exasperated on one of those calls. I 450 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,519 actually said to this group of FBI investigators, since when 451 00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:40,720 does the brother of the murder victim become the enemy? 452 00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:44,480 Because that's sometimes how they treat me. 453 00:25:46,319 --> 00:25:50,519 Speaker 6: Yeah, it shouldn't be, and that's why there should be 454 00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:56,599 a liaison officer that has your well being and your 455 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:02,519 information as one of their priorities. And it's just it's 456 00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:07,279 irresponsible and not necessary. The thing is that, obviously the 457 00:26:07,319 --> 00:26:13,519 information that you get from law enforcement isn't just information 458 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,759 to you. It isn't just news like it is to 459 00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:19,160 the general public. This is your family, Your sister was 460 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,119 brutally murdered, and you still don't have answers, and they should. 461 00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:26,720 Every person in law enforcement should understand your need to know. 462 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,559 So it's just very unfortunate you're. 463 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 2: Listening to Mind over Murder. Will be right back after 464 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:43,000 this word from our sponsors. We're back here at mindover Murder. 465 00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:47,000 I want to focus on something positive, which Kristin and 466 00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:50,519 I are trying to strongly support. They have put out 467 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,480 some pretty good information about Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. As 468 00:26:55,599 --> 00:26:58,359 Laura was saying, he drove a very distinctive truck. He 469 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,279 had a very distinctive boat, the Denny Wade. It was 470 00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:03,960 a fishing boat with a big graphic on the side. 471 00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:08,079 He himself is a physically very distinctive man. He's got 472 00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:10,839 average looks with a neatly trimmed beard. And they had 473 00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:13,960 a really good age progression of photographs, which I think 474 00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:17,799 might be a Virginia driver's license pictures, but they were 475 00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:20,240 really good. You could see what he looked like back 476 00:27:20,279 --> 00:27:23,200 in the eighties, all the way back through to age 477 00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:27,000 sixty three when he passed. One thing I think they missed, though, 478 00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:33,440 was he's a very distinctively short individual. He's five foot 479 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,559 five inches tall, which I think is five inches less 480 00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:40,319 than the average man. He's very muscular, so I almost 481 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,319 picture a dude that looks like pop By the sailor 482 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,759 man driving this very distinctive truck. He's got a very 483 00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:50,599 distinctive boat, and then he himself has these very distinctive 484 00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:53,720 physical characteristics. What Kristin and I are trying to do 485 00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:57,960 on Mind Over Murder is really push out on our 486 00:27:58,039 --> 00:28:01,759 podcast but especially on our social media media platforms mind 487 00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:04,839 of a murder and Colonial Parkway murders on Facebook and 488 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:10,559 other platforms, these photographs and this information, because the Virginia 489 00:28:10,559 --> 00:28:13,039 State Police and the FBI now are asking for help, 490 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,400 they're trying to timeline this man, especially back in the 491 00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:19,640 nineteen eighties when these murders were happening, and they're asking 492 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,640 people to come forward. One of the things that Kristin 493 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,400 and I are trying to do is people are commenting 494 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:31,319 and telling stories, including some scary stories about Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr. 495 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,880 And we're trying to push those folks respectfully. Don't just 496 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,000 talk about it to Bill and Kristen on a social 497 00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:40,920 media page, or don't just post it on your own page. 498 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,799 Please get this information to law enforcement. 499 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 6: Call the FBI or the State Police Virginia State Police hotlines. 500 00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:50,759 Speaker 5: Well. Also, Bill, we should focus. 501 00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 6: On the offender's behavior because Laura and I this is 502 00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:56,240 what we do. This is our bread and butter, and 503 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,319 we would expect that this guy had a number of 504 00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:04,440 precursor crimes that were committed in the late seventies early eighties, 505 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,240 crimes like stalking and peeping and maybe breaking and entering 506 00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:13,000 or harassing people. And these kinds of things may many 507 00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:17,319 times be dismissed as unimportant by the public, but and 508 00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:20,079 they may sometimes be dismissed as unimportant by the police, 509 00:29:20,079 --> 00:29:22,559 but they are incredibly important to build the timeline of 510 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,799 this guy and his offenses. As I think Lauras said earlier, again, 511 00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:27,799 he didn't just start at the age of thirty three 512 00:29:28,079 --> 00:29:32,759 of abducting, raping and killing people. He actually started earlier, 513 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,200 probably in his late adolescence, and he was probably committing 514 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,960 these kind of precursor crimes. 515 00:29:39,519 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 5: These are things that are important. 516 00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 6: So if you have any history of interacting with this guy, 517 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,559 this five foot five guy named Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, 518 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,680 and whether it's in your neighborhood or in your in 519 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,400 a business dealing, or on the water, or in his 520 00:29:56,559 --> 00:30:00,480 tree service company or on the road, anything you might 521 00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:04,000 have to tell the police about him and his behavior, 522 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,440 all of that is incredibly important. We would all encourage 523 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,440 you to call the FBI tipline or the state police 524 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:15,839 email tip line so that you can put this information 525 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,079 into official records so that then they can build a 526 00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:20,160 better timeline. 527 00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:23,319 Speaker 7: And even if you've reported it, please re report it 528 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,240 because often these things get lost, and as Jim said, 529 00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:31,559 extensive experience of working these cases, oftentimes those who are 530 00:30:31,559 --> 00:30:36,519 peeping tom's or loitering or standing near you leering at you, 531 00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:41,640 making you feel uncomfortable, or obscene phone calls, exposing yourself. 532 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,640 These sorts of things can oftentimes be not just ignored 533 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,839 by you, and you minimize it and think it's not 534 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,720 anything major, But it's a gateway crime to something much 535 00:30:51,759 --> 00:30:55,039 more serious. And often it is minimized by law enforcement, 536 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,319 and I will say particularly male officers, because often it 537 00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:01,680 will not happen to them, and therefore they don't understand 538 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,640 how terrifying it is when you're a lone female and 539 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,799 that happens to you. And this guy being along the waterway. 540 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,119 We did talk about Kathy and Becky and did the 541 00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:16,000 perpetrator have a boat for example, we did discuss that specifically, 542 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:22,000 didn't we So again, it's really interesting how transient he was, 543 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,759 but he did have anchor points and he did use 544 00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:28,960 the boat. He was a hunter, hunting equals stalking. He 545 00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:32,079 had a tree service business, so that means he's part 546 00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:34,920 of the street furniture. He could be somewhere and people 547 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,880 don't necessarily think, oh, this guy. So it seems to 548 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,480 me that he used all of these things in the 549 00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:45,000 commission of his offenses, and I think it's really important 550 00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:49,279 that people do put that information back into the FBI 551 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,039 or Virginia State Police. And the other thing to say 552 00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:54,880 is that when I was listening to that press conference, yes, 553 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,480 I believe that he had an extensive history and he 554 00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:00,279 would have had contact with law enforcement. And then it 555 00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:04,640 became known. I read Blaine Pardu's book blog that he 556 00:32:04,759 --> 00:32:07,720 recently put out about the book and about him and 557 00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:10,559 his books A Special kind of Evil. I know you 558 00:32:11,079 --> 00:32:13,519 know the book well, but page two oh four he 559 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,319 talked about Wilma being a prime suspect in the Cassandra 560 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,920 Haley and Keith Call murders in April nineteen eighty eight. 561 00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:26,240 That for me was just exactly what I see so 562 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,480 often in cases where a suspect is overlooked, even though 563 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,960 there were some very important behaviors and information about him. 564 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,240 And one of those things and we talked about this 565 00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:42,440 with Kathy and Becky how the perpetrator approached them. We 566 00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:46,799 heard from Blaine Pardu that Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior was 567 00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:50,519 approaching couples in cars along the parkway. He was aggressive, 568 00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:54,240 he was confronting them, He was banging on windows. One 569 00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:57,480 particular event, he bangs on the window. He thinks it's 570 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,960 two women together, but it's actually a guy and a woman. 571 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,680 The guy had long hair, and he turns around, but 572 00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:06,759 he said, a you girl's having fun, and then when 573 00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:10,359 he sees it's a bloke, he then backs off. These 574 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,359 are exactly the types of behaviors that we would expect 575 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,000 as precursors, and his truck was called in to law enforcement. 576 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,519 These events were called into law enforcement, and after Cassandra 577 00:33:21,599 --> 00:33:25,039 and Keith went missing, he was under surveillance and there 578 00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:28,559 was drive by surveillance going on, and actually law enforcement 579 00:33:28,599 --> 00:33:31,480 turned up spoke to him when he was spray painting 580 00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:35,400 his truck and vacuuming and cleaning it out and painting it. 581 00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:38,279 They felt that he was a prime suspect. They went 582 00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:40,400 off and got a warrant because they wanted to search 583 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:46,119 his trailer, and in the trailer they find weapons, handcuffs, pornography. 584 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,640 These are all things that Jim and I would see 585 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:55,039 as absolute critical information, red flag behavior. And a witness 586 00:33:55,079 --> 00:33:58,039 also placed him at the scene where Cassandra and Keith 587 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,640 went missing. So they've got a four pronged approach, if 588 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,400 you will, and approach and four pronged key behaviors about 589 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,800 this individual, and they bring in a polygrapher, an experienced polygrapher, 590 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,480 who they say eliminated him as not being involved in 591 00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:21,079 the murder. I just find that absolutely staggering, given all 592 00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:22,920 that we know, and we can put ourselves back in 593 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,880 time and say, maybe it wasn't as well known about 594 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,159 stalking and predatory behavior and sexual violence, serial killers and 595 00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,079 so forth, But I got a saven on a basic level, 596 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,880 Jim of being a police officer or a detective, these 597 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,280 things should have raised red flags and it should never 598 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,320 have been let's eliminate him based on a lie detector test. 599 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,639 Speaker 6: I think, actually to credit the fbis at the time 600 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,679 they actually felt like he was a good suspect and 601 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,480 continued to feel that way even though he got washed out. 602 00:34:51,519 --> 00:34:54,599 But I will say this bill that behavior that Laura 603 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,039 just outlined with that one couple in their car where 604 00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:00,360 he banged on the window and said, are you girls 605 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,840 having fun? And then was startled to find that one 606 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,840 of them was a guy, and then he took off, 607 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,039 I think that's a direct tie to your. 608 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,039 Speaker 5: Sister, Kathy and Becky's case. The fact that he. 609 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,519 Speaker 6: Would approach a car with two girls in it and 610 00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:16,079 then retreat when he found out it was a girl 611 00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:19,400 and a guy. To me, your sister and her girlfriend 612 00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:22,039 were in that car together, and they were in their 613 00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:25,400 car together, and this could very well be how he 614 00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:29,239 approached at that point, banging on the door. Your sister 615 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,920 may have lowered the window. It may have told him 616 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,639 to get out of there, and that could have been 617 00:35:33,679 --> 00:35:36,840 the beginning. And the fact that he had weapons, that 618 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,880 he was a hunter. We know that he had knives 619 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,280 because he used a knife to kill them. 620 00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:44,519 Speaker 5: We also believed that. 621 00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 6: He had guns because he was able to control two 622 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,920 adults who would have fought back. But by controlling one 623 00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:55,760 person in a couple, you can then control the other. 624 00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:58,920 In other words, you can threaten one person and if 625 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,360 the other person doesn't anything, then that person, the first person, 626 00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:05,239 will be killed, And that is a good way to 627 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:06,639 threaten a couple. 628 00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 7: He had weapons and handcuffs. 629 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 6: Jim in handcuffs, which, yeah, we all thought that at 630 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,000 the point that during the course of the murders of 631 00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:19,960 your sister and her girlfriend, that there was a high 632 00:36:20,119 --> 00:36:23,639 likelihood that he had controlled one of them first and 633 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,400 threatened her and then kept got her tied up somehow, 634 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,840 and then went after the other one. Obviously, handcuffs are 635 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,199 a way to do that, to accomplish that, and the 636 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,239 fact that he had those cuffs should have been incredibly 637 00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:42,440 important to the investigators and may very well be why 638 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,000 he was able to pull off these double homicides. 639 00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 2: What shocking, though, in what was baffling to Kristen and 640 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,360 me and the other Colonial Parkway murders families was none 641 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,920 of this was mentioned that the press conference. As you mentioned, Laura, 642 00:36:56,039 --> 00:37:01,440 when a reporter asked, when did this man, Alan Wade 643 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,280 Wilmer Senior move on to law enforcement's radar, they refuse 644 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,519 to answer the question. Now, he was suspect number one, 645 00:37:10,679 --> 00:37:13,880 that's what the agents called it in the disappearance of 646 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,960 Keith Colin Cassandra Haley, and somehow that was never covered 647 00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:23,599 in this press conference. So this is a situation where 648 00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:25,760 those of us that are close to the details of 649 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,000 the Colonial park rammerders, which I know is not most people. 650 00:37:29,519 --> 00:37:31,519 Those of us that know some of the detail, and 651 00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:34,119 we don't claim to be as expert as law enforcement. 652 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,679 We're all looking at each other after we finally have 653 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,880 a chance to watch the press conference, Who're like, what 654 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,119 the heck was that and why don't they mention the 655 00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:47,199 fact that Wilmer was suspect number one in Keith Colin 656 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,880 Cassandra Haley's disappearance. 657 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,079 Speaker 5: Well, Bill, all I can say is I hope. 658 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,280 Speaker 6: I just hope that's because they have positive information about 659 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,719 a connection and that they don't want to release it yet, 660 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,280 but they're going to plan on release it soon. I 661 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,639 just hope that's the reason, because if it's not, you know, 662 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,519 it's just irresponsible, because we do want to find out 663 00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:10,000 if they're connected, and if people are out there and 664 00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:13,360 have information that we'd connect it to keep call and 665 00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:16,840 Cassandra Haley's murders, then they should be calling for people 666 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,079 to do that. And it's just it's ridiculous to not 667 00:38:20,519 --> 00:38:22,920 call for people to do that when we know that 668 00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:27,440 he was a prime suspect in that very double homicide, 669 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:28,159 and the. 670 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,679 Speaker 7: Murders were two years apart. We're not talking about in 671 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,400 different parts of the world, different countries. We're talking about 672 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,320 in the same geographic region. And that's what's staggering to 673 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,199 me that it makes me feel uncomfortable that they're hiding things. 674 00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:44,679 And if you say no, I'm not going to talk 675 00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:47,760 about it, you can't be caught later on. You can't 676 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,239 be caught out. So that's how I felt about it. 677 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,039 And I hope Jim in good faith that they're holding 678 00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:56,639 things back because it's a key part of the investigation. 679 00:38:56,679 --> 00:38:58,599 I really hope that's true. But let's not forget this 680 00:38:58,679 --> 00:39:03,360 guy is deceased. This isn't about anything other than this 681 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,119 guy's dead. Let's properly timeline him. And they should be 682 00:39:06,199 --> 00:39:08,519 trying to create trust and confidence in the public that 683 00:39:08,519 --> 00:39:11,280 we're trying to do our job and we need your help. 684 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,400 And it should just be straight up clear what's required, 685 00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:19,119 and they should be saying the truth. I don't understand 686 00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:22,480 why they would hold that back. And this geographic area Bill, 687 00:39:22,639 --> 00:39:25,920 when we've spoken before, you said that his house was 688 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,840 in where he died, was in his house in Lancaster County. 689 00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:31,639 I think you mentioned that it was an hour and 690 00:39:31,679 --> 00:39:34,599 fifteen minutes away from the Colonial Parkway murders. But I 691 00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:37,360 wonder what that would be by boat. I assume you 692 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,599 were thinking by car or were you thinking by boat? 693 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,920 And could would it be easily accessible by boat? 694 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,039 Speaker 2: It would still be a lengthy bit of travel by boat. 695 00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:52,400 We understand now that Wilmer lived on his boat and 696 00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:57,239 docked it in Gloucester and Hampton, Virginia, And as Kristen 697 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,519 can tell you, these places are minutes away, so he'd 698 00:40:02,519 --> 00:40:06,800 come down for the oystering season and he would park 699 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,039 his boat and then work that area. That's actually something 700 00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:14,920 Virginia State Police and FBI are looking for information if 701 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,159 anyone docked their boat near his. 702 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,079 Speaker 5: So that boat would be the Denny D. E. 703 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 6: N I. Wade Wade and it's a wooden boat, so 704 00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:27,760 it would be distinctive, as well as his car, which 705 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,440 is the nineteen sixty six Dodge Fargo pickup truck that's 706 00:40:31,519 --> 00:40:36,719 blue green in color with the license plate em raw. 707 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,480 Anybody who was around that area at that time or 708 00:40:40,559 --> 00:40:42,960 on the water at that time, who interacted with him 709 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,679 in any way, even if it was totally insignificant in 710 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,320 your mind, it may be important putting him in a 711 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,679 particular place at a particular time, giving him access to 712 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,599 these victims that we know were murdered in cases that 713 00:40:56,679 --> 00:40:58,119 are still unresolved. 714 00:40:58,559 --> 00:41:01,199 Speaker 7: It's worth al say, just playing out that he was married, 715 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,440 he had two children and It's always a lot of 716 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,000 my work has been centered around interviewing the ex wives 717 00:41:08,039 --> 00:41:11,719 and understanding from the partners and ex wives, the children, 718 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,800 those who know that individual the best they can really 719 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,400 add information into the case. And it really concerned me 720 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,400 when I heard from Kerry Rawson, who is the daughter 721 00:41:23,559 --> 00:41:26,360 of Denis Raider. Jim when I was at the FBI, 722 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,320 spent a lot of time talking to the agents involved 723 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,719 in the Denis Raider case. People know him by his 724 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,239 horrible monika, which I'm not going to use. But Kerry, 725 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,760 when I interviewed her, told me so much about what 726 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,840 was going on behind closed doors. And actually she told 727 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,039 me the FBI never interviewed her about what was happening 728 00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:48,079 in terms of the domestic violence, the coercive control, all 729 00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:52,320 that they were victims too. And I remember distinctly asking 730 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,440 the agents at the time, does he have a history 731 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,360 of domestic violence? What was going on in terms of 732 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,840 his wife, his children? And they said there was no abuse, 733 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,119 and Kerry couldn't believe it. That's what I was told. 734 00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:08,360 So again, we now know about coercive control. We now 735 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,480 know these are power and control related crimes, and so 736 00:42:11,559 --> 00:42:15,239 it's really important that I hope law enforcement are speaking 737 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,880 to the family in order to find out more about 738 00:42:18,679 --> 00:42:22,559 the timeline, specifically places Kerry told me all this information 739 00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:25,679 about Dennis Raider of places she went with him, who 740 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,920 now she thinks he was stalking other victims. That intelligence 741 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,599 and information is so important in the timeline, So it 742 00:42:32,679 --> 00:42:35,800 is worth saying there may be other girlfriends ex girlfriends 743 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,559 that we don't know about, but they're really important of 744 00:42:40,159 --> 00:42:43,079 building a picture of this individual because I have no 745 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,679 doubt he would be prolific, absolutely prolific, because of the 746 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,719 fantasy base of his levels of perpetration. And I know 747 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,960 it's not just him either, it's his brother too, And 748 00:42:55,079 --> 00:42:59,559 there are some very key pieces of intelligence about Keith Wilmer, 749 00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:03,719 the brother. So again there's been some confusion in some 750 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,559 cases about which brother might be involved. Therefore, if you 751 00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:11,599 know anything about Keith Wilmer or Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, 752 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,800 then please do make sure you forward that information to 753 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:15,760 law enforcement. 754 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,599 Speaker 4: Jim and Laura. While I have you here, I did 755 00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:22,039 want to ask about an important, interesting piece of information 756 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,639 that sac Brian Dugan put forward at the end of 757 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,480 his time at the podium. He did give all of 758 00:43:28,519 --> 00:43:31,400 the information that they are looking for. With regard to 759 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,440 Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, he also gave all of the 760 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,880 tip line numbers, but he ended with an interesting coda, 761 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,840 and I wanted to get your thought on it, so 762 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,119 I'm going to quote from sac Dugan here. He said, 763 00:43:43,199 --> 00:43:47,440 we recognize relationships and loyalties change over time as to 764 00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:51,519 people and their perspectives. There are occasions where people who 765 00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:53,840 may have had knowledge of a crime do not feel 766 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,280 comfortable coming forward with information. This may have been due 767 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,000 to relationships with the persons involved, or out of concer 768 00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:03,360 learned for their own safety, reputation, or standing amongst friends. 769 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,079 Even though mister Wilmer is deceased, we want you to 770 00:44:06,119 --> 00:44:08,880 know it is not too late to come forward. Who 771 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,360 might he be speaking to. Would that be the brother, 772 00:44:11,599 --> 00:44:12,400 the ex wife? 773 00:44:12,519 --> 00:44:13,320 Speaker 7: Who is this so? 774 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 6: Yeah, family members, relatives, the people that he was in 775 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,800 a relationship with, people who live next door to him 776 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,840 who might have been afraid of him, people who worked 777 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,440 with him, people who just interacted with him socially, everybody. 778 00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:30,840 What they're trying to say is, look back in the day, 779 00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:33,679 maybe you had some kind of loyalty to him. He's 780 00:44:33,679 --> 00:44:36,119 not around it anymore, and we know he is a 781 00:44:36,159 --> 00:44:39,639 serial killer, so please come forward. That's I think what 782 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,719 they're trying to say there. And I think it's really 783 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,119 important that anybody out there, especially people who were related 784 00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:48,039 to him, who could help, would be doing the world 785 00:44:48,039 --> 00:44:51,119 a great service. And if they don't help, they'd be 786 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,400 won't doing the world a great disservice. 787 00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 5: And the victims and their families. 788 00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:59,559 Speaker 7: And perpetrates is like him, a frightening They are terrifying, 789 00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:03,320 and they terrify and terrorize the people in their intimate 790 00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:07,440 lives too. So oftentimes when someone stays quiet, it's out 791 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,960 of fear. Actually, sometimes it might be loyalty, yes, but 792 00:45:11,039 --> 00:45:14,480 oftentimes I see with domestic violence and coercive control, it's fear. 793 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,280 And then unfortunately it gets into being concerned about judgment. 794 00:45:18,519 --> 00:45:21,239 Why didn't you come forward earlier, and then feeling like 795 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,960 you might be blamed or judged? And I always say, 796 00:45:24,039 --> 00:45:27,440 absolutely not. Why would you be blamed or judged? It's 797 00:45:27,519 --> 00:45:30,440 not your actions. You won't be held responsible for somebody 798 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,159 else's behavior. And I say that very clearly because oftentimes 799 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,199 people do hold women accountable for men's behavior. This is 800 00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:40,480 a very prolific and dangerous man, and I have no 801 00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:43,440 doubt he would have used coercive tactics on other people 802 00:45:43,519 --> 00:45:46,440 around him, and he would have been probably quite frightening 803 00:45:46,519 --> 00:45:49,639 to be around. But maybe he has charm too, and 804 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:54,400 the charm ability we mustn't overlook that either. So yes, 805 00:45:54,519 --> 00:45:58,280 I would imagine family members do know some things. They 806 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,159 may not know all of it. And it sounds like 807 00:46:00,199 --> 00:46:03,880 he died a lonely death in a house on his 808 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,159 own where no one's saying, oh, we miss him, or 809 00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:09,440 he didn't turn up for X or why. So it 810 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,199 sounds like there's some distancing in the family there. I 811 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,679 don't know why, but that could be part of the 812 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:15,480 story here. 813 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,159 Speaker 2: Kristin, do you mind giving that tip information before we go? 814 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 4: Absolutely, for anyone who has tips regarding Alan Wade Wilmers Senior, 815 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,360 please call one eight hundred car FBI. You can submit 816 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,440 a tip online at tips dot FBI dot gov. You 817 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,320 can also contact the Virginia State Police via email at 818 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,800 Questions at VSP dot Virginia dot. 819 00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:44,119 Speaker 2: Gov and we'll include that information in our show notes 820 00:46:44,119 --> 00:46:45,199 for Mind Over Murder. 821 00:46:46,119 --> 00:46:48,440 Speaker 4: Jim and Laura, it has been a real pleasure and 822 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,800 a privilege having you here on Mind Over Murder. Thank 823 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,199 you so much for joining us today. 824 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,400 Speaker 7: Thank you, yeah, thank you for your time. And I 825 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,880 hope that there's more good news to come because this 826 00:46:58,039 --> 00:47:01,039 is your life, Bill, and I know you want your 827 00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:04,199 sister's case. I'm Becky's all of them resolved, and I 828 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,639 feel that the answers are there, So I hope next 829 00:47:06,639 --> 00:47:10,239 time we talk there be better news for you as well. 830 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,360 And I am sorry about the way that you've been 831 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,239 treated because even now you're trying to get information to 832 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,119 help law enforcement, and I applaud you for that. 833 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 4: So thank you, thank you, thanks so much for listening 834 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,679 to this episode of mind Over Murder. We'll see you 835 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:25,119 next time. 836 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,440 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 837 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:39,920 Another Dog Productions. 838 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,800 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 839 00:47:44,159 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnoir. 840 00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,280 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod. 841 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. 842 00:47:54,519 --> 00:47:57,679 Speaker 2: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 843 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 844 00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:02,320 Murders on Facebook. 845 00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:05,079 Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 846 00:48:05,199 --> 00:48:06,800 Bill Thomas five six. 847 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,400 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. To mind over murder,