Speaker 1: I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
Speaker 1: and I have three kids.
Speaker 2: I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
Speaker 2: out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1: This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
Speaker 1: and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2: When coming out feels like the end of the world,
Speaker 2: but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 3: This is the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2: Hey guys, quick trigger warning ahead of this episode, we
Speaker 2: do talk about suicidal ideation and sexual abuse.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2: I feel like I have to be like on now
Speaker 2: that we're filming all these I'm like.
Speaker 1: It makes me nervous when I see the TikTok. I know,
Speaker 1: four yea three, it counts down.
Speaker 4: It does like this five four three two one, and
Speaker 4: it's like, oh my.
Speaker 1: God, we're live. Yeah, do it. So I want to
Speaker 1: just start off by saying we did. You couldn't be
Speaker 1: there and you would have freaking loved it. But just
Speaker 1: the park, you know, for those of you who don't know,
Speaker 1: we are doing a documentary about the Katie Janie murder.
Speaker 1: It kind of will be sort of the documentary version
Speaker 1: of the podcast that we did. We have some incredible
Speaker 1: guests lined up. But we did a reenactment of the
Speaker 1: Dog and Katie in the park with Three Paul Productions.
Speaker 1: It's a filmmaker that's making this documentary and we actually
Speaker 1: were at Piedmont Park at the you know, at nighttime,
Speaker 1: at the entrance and both entrances actually where there's speculation
Speaker 1: that it happened. But the footage is so unbelievably real
Speaker 1: and good that I just even the dog that we
Speaker 1: used to play, Bowie, is spot on Bowie. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: I just I think this is going to bring it
Speaker 1: so much more real for people so they can kind
Speaker 1: of really get a visual and see what happened. But
Speaker 1: also seeing the park from the drone footage, the path,
Speaker 1: the way it winds around in the city is just
Speaker 1: I hadn't even seen that vantage point. So I think
Speaker 1: it's it's going to be really really good. I'm excited
Speaker 1: about who gets to see it and maybe what it
Speaker 1: sparks and people to remember.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean we see that happen a lot with
Speaker 2: some of these unsolved crimes, where you know, it just
Speaker 2: takes someone like talking about it and kind of I
Speaker 2: think adding new layers to it, new avenues to explore
Speaker 2: and that's really what we're trying to do with it.
Speaker 2: And yeah, like Sam with Three Paw Productions is amazing,
Speaker 2: Like now is that you guys sent looked incredible? I
Speaker 2: can't wait for people to see it. And yeah, it's
Speaker 2: I think it does. Watching it actually, I was like
Speaker 2: getting chills. Like the video, I was like this, God,
Speaker 2: it gives such a different perspective like you're saying, and
Speaker 2: it's and like, yeah, like seeing the aerial video of
Speaker 2: Piedmont Park and it kind of really shows you how
Speaker 2: wooded it is and that kind of the city and
Speaker 2: the trees, you can just see how someone could have
Speaker 2: gotten away so easily.
Speaker 1: I still think it's bizarro that they didn't catch them,
Speaker 1: but you can see now also though, in addition to
Speaker 1: the fact that yes, they could have gotten away, you
Speaker 1: also see how close these businesses are. So it's just
Speaker 1: like here's the traffic light and the cars and the
Speaker 1: side streets and the traffic just whizzing by. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like it's not I think it's when people see it all,
Speaker 1: they're going to be surprised. Welcome, Kiki, you made it.
Speaker 5: Sorry am I late?
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, we are recording already though, just so.
Speaker 1: You're we got it doing. We did a little we
Speaker 1: were introducing We've got a documentary we're filming, so we
Speaker 1: just kind of introduced it. But we want to focus
Speaker 1: on you, Kiki. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 5: It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so how did you guess? How did you find us?
Speaker 6: I love I'm a performer here in the city in
Speaker 6: Twin Cities, so I'm always looking for things to get
Speaker 6: involved in, our interested in and so I actually found
Speaker 6: you through sapphic Social on Instagram. Okay, you were in
Speaker 6: their stories. I was like lesbian chronicles. I was like,
Speaker 6: what is that? I followed along and then I found
Speaker 6: your page and I was like, oh this is cool.
Speaker 1: Oh great, well, thank you. I'm going to remember that
Speaker 1: sapphic Social and that's cities.
Speaker 2: To write that down yea too, because we love any
Speaker 2: organization that is trying to bring people together in specific
Speaker 2: cities I think is amazing because it's you know, it's
Speaker 2: one thing to be following some like lesbian page that
Speaker 2: doesn't have like a community behind it, and then when
Speaker 2: you find one in.
Speaker 4: Your city, it just feels like finding your people.
Speaker 5: So exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what she really means is she likes when
Speaker 1: organizations plug us. That's what she really means. Tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about your your journey to get here.
Speaker 6: Oh man, So I've actually been on my own since
Speaker 6: I was seventeen. Yeah, yeah, well I think I knew
Speaker 6: back then that I might be clearer, but it was
Speaker 6: something that's frowned on in the black community. My mother
Speaker 6: actually looked at me and she's I was going to
Speaker 6: tell her I felt different, and she said, if you
Speaker 6: ever say something like that to me, I'm gonna throw
Speaker 6: you out. So that was when I was sixteen. So
Speaker 6: it's just something I buried, like deep inside of me
Speaker 6: and never approached again. I didn't date at all much
Speaker 6: of my life. I was just really lost when it
Speaker 6: came to that. I didn't understand why. I was like,
Speaker 6: why do men not find me attractive? I was really confused.
Speaker 6: Secretly though, I was watching women porn, but I was like, oh,
Speaker 6: it's just a face.
Speaker 5: I just think women are beautiful, and yeah, I'm in
Speaker 5: the arts.
Speaker 6: So right fast forward, I'm thirty eight COVID hits and
Speaker 6: I am sent home to work from home, like I'm
Speaker 6: locked in my own apartment by myself having to look
Speaker 6: at myself, and it was scary to ignore what was
Speaker 6: going on inside of me.
Speaker 5: I went out a lot.
Speaker 6: I was a super extrovert, never allowed myself to rest
Speaker 6: or thing for myself, and when I had to do it,
Speaker 6: I cried a lot. I had never been in therapy.
Speaker 6: That's also something the black community does not do. Like
Speaker 6: therapy is not something we do. You keep everything in
Speaker 6: the house. But my chosen parents at the time, that's why.
Speaker 6: That's why I know they were now. But back then
Speaker 6: they said, we really think you should get a therapist.
Speaker 6: And my first session, I was sharing my life with
Speaker 6: her and she's like, do you think you might be gay?
Speaker 6: And I remember I just cried. I never said it, like,
Speaker 6: I never said it. I thought about it, but no
Speaker 6: one had ever looked at me with so much acceptance
Speaker 6: and said that to me. I said, I'm so sorry,
Speaker 6: I can't stop crying, and she said, it's okay, you know,
Speaker 6: lay it out.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I just that was my whole session, was crying.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So you were thirty eight when that all went down.
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me what you said about kind of
Speaker 2: keeping yourself busy, and I think that's what so many
Speaker 2: of us do, and like, there comes a point where
Speaker 2: you can't stay.
Speaker 4: Busy anymore and you've got to like sit in.
Speaker 2: It was that how you felt was like it's just
Speaker 2: once you sat that, the feelings and.
Speaker 4: All that stuff and thoughts started going.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: At this point, I didn't have much of a relationship
Speaker 6: with my blood family.
Speaker 5: I was on my own.
Speaker 6: There was a lot of decisions I made in my
Speaker 6: personal life that they didn't agree with.
Speaker 5: I was. I was the black sheep, but out yet, No,
Speaker 5: we're not in. Yeah, yeah, that's a whole other story.
Speaker 6: My my my mother's a pastor, and so we used
Speaker 6: to all be really religious. I was involved as well,
Speaker 6: But around thirty five I started to think differently. There
Speaker 6: are things I didn't agree with. I saw my first
Speaker 6: Pride march, and I knew I was supposed to be there.
Speaker 6: My church was strictly against it, but I wanted to
Speaker 6: see what all this was about, and I cried the
Speaker 6: whole time. I had never seen so much acceptance, Like
Speaker 6: I'm like, this is what pride is. Like I thought
Speaker 6: they were evil demon satanists, like like homosexuality. No, I'd
Speaker 6: be praying for them, and I'm like it's they're happy,
Speaker 6: like they were so happy. It just it was beautiful
Speaker 6: that shifted me. I couldn't ignore it. So I'm sitting
Speaker 6: in an apartment. I can't go out to dinner, I
Speaker 6: can't go to happy my friends, I can't go to
Speaker 6: movie theater. I can have to sit and look at
Speaker 6: myself and figure out why I don't like me, Why
Speaker 6: I hate being alone, Why I fear quiet. I never
Speaker 6: had quiet. I always had something on, something going. It
Speaker 6: just scared me. And that now I know, is because
Speaker 6: there was so much happening inside me that I needed
Speaker 6: to let out. Yeah, I was going to die. I
Speaker 6: was really suicidal aft time. I would say between seventeen
Speaker 6: and thirty eight, like I think I most took my
Speaker 6: life like six times.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: I thought it was.
Speaker 6: Because I was a horrible person, but it was because
Speaker 6: there was this career person in me that wanted to
Speaker 6: be out stay. I love women like I want to
Speaker 6: kiss a girl, you know, Yeah, I want to express myself.
Speaker 6: So yeah, So I sat there and once I said it,
Speaker 6: I couldn't go back. Like it was too late. I
Speaker 6: said I'm gay, and I was like, no, maybe I'm
Speaker 6: bisexual because my mother. I was still trying to win
Speaker 6: her back and she wanted grandkids. So I tried to
Speaker 6: have sex with a diet. It was horrible. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: penetrate me. Like my body was like, no, are you okay?
Speaker 5: I was like I really. He's like I need to
Speaker 5: take a nap. I said, oh, oh jeez.
Speaker 6: But he's laying in the bed next to me and
Speaker 6: I'm just laughing like I'm gay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I.
Speaker 6: Said, can you leave? So he left and I invited
Speaker 6: this girl over. We were both forty something, I mean,
Speaker 6: excuse me, in her early forties, and I was like,
Speaker 6: can you teach me how to talk to women? I
Speaker 6: don't know what the hell I'm doing. It was horrible.
Speaker 6: I had no cool gayness whatsoever. And she cames over
Speaker 6: in his tiny dress and she's like.
Speaker 5: I like you. I freaked the hell out. I was
Speaker 5: in my batman pajamas. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: It was fucking like she was there to teach you,
Speaker 1: but she was like hitting on you. Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Ready to take notes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I was going to say I could
Speaker 1: use some notes.
Speaker 2: I was curious read the situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hadn't.
Speaker 5: I haven't.
Speaker 6: I hadn't dated at all. I felt so lost in naive.
Speaker 6: She she said, you want to kiss me? And I
Speaker 6: remember looking at her and I was like, the church
Speaker 6: isn't here, my family isn't here.
Speaker 5: In my own apartment, I can do this.
Speaker 1: Nobody will know I'm an adult, yeah.
Speaker 6: Which is It's funny because because I was so emotionally
Speaker 6: scarred from past trauma and narcissism and physical, mental and
Speaker 6: sexual abuse, I was still very much a child and
Speaker 6: like this adult body, interesting teenager in this adult body.
Speaker 5: So it was such innocence.
Speaker 6: It was like when I kissed her, I said, I
Speaker 6: don't hate I thought I hated sex. I've been a
Speaker 6: victim of sexual assault before, so I thought sex wasn't
Speaker 6: something that was for me. But when I kissed her,
Speaker 6: I was like, wow, Like I felt my whole body
Speaker 6: just go respond. I hadn't felt that years. And we
Speaker 6: ended up consummating and I didn't know what the hell
Speaker 6: I was doing.
Speaker 2: I figured it out well, I know, on the job training.
Speaker 5: On the job, I was so scared.
Speaker 6: I was I said, what if I bite or miss
Speaker 6: you know whatever something And it was the most beautiful
Speaker 6: thing I've ever experienced in my life ever.
Speaker 1: I love this, did she turn out to be more
Speaker 1: than just that, or was it a relationship or it
Speaker 1: was just a physical awakening.
Speaker 6: This is where we get into the chronicles. So unfortunately,
Speaker 6: I have this weird habit of attracting women who are married.
Speaker 6: Oh no, we had sex that time. She left and
Speaker 6: then she came back Another time. I ordered this pizza
Speaker 6: and she's like, do you want to be my girlfriend?
Speaker 6: And I was like sure. It didn't last more than
Speaker 6: a month, though, I ended up finding out she had
Speaker 6: a real bad dread problem. She had a husband who
Speaker 6: found out about me. That was interesting. I was like,
Speaker 6: oh no, but I mean I enjoyed it while it lasted.
Speaker 5: I mean I didn't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 6: Didn't know there was such a thing as marathon sex.
Speaker 6: But that was awesome, very good.
Speaker 1: Well then, so then what after? So you that relationship's over,
Speaker 1: then are you feeling confident of like, Okay, I've got
Speaker 1: one under my belt.
Speaker 6: It took me like six months before I met my
Speaker 6: next one, and I swore to myself, I said, I'm
Speaker 6: not going to get another woman that's married.
Speaker 5: And we met in a walking group. Oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 5: not doing it.
Speaker 6: But we met in a walking group and I was
Speaker 6: really attracted to her. It's funny because I get a
Speaker 6: lot of shade for her. But I love dating white
Speaker 6: girls or someone that's not my color. I call it
Speaker 6: like cream in my coffee because I love seeing our
Speaker 6: skin together. And I love how flushed your your skin gets,
Speaker 6: when it's like you're like in a frozen passion. I
Speaker 6: think it's beautiful. So I was like, so she was
Speaker 6: no that car. I was like, oh, she has this
Speaker 6: cute short hair.
Speaker 5: And I was like, oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 6: So we talked the whole walk. It was like two hours,
Speaker 6: and I was really attracted to her. And then I
Speaker 6: saw the ring on her finger. I said, I can't ask,
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, and then she sends me a picture two
Speaker 6: days later she has cut the ring off her finger,
Speaker 6: like literally like it's a metal ring and she has
Speaker 6: it's cut down the center and she said, I want
Speaker 6: to show you that I'm committed to this after.
Speaker 1: A walk, after a two hour walk. Okay, that's my
Speaker 1: red flag right there. Forget the wedding ring. I was
Speaker 1: so emotionally immature to your point.
Speaker 6: I was almost mature, and I had watched too many
Speaker 6: Disney princess movies and I was just like this is magic,
Speaker 6: this is what's supposed to be. Like I had this
Speaker 6: really stupid view of way to me rom com you know.
Speaker 6: So yeah, so we started dating and I found out
Speaker 6: about her. Oh my god, it was worse than the
Speaker 6: first one.
Speaker 1: What Melissa and I are both wondering how she cut
Speaker 1: the ring off? I can tell Melissa's at er.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have that laying around, like like what.
Speaker 5: She remember because the picture she sent me I saw
Speaker 5: her stick shift. So I also wonder how.
Speaker 1: Also, why couldn't you just do the old soap soap
Speaker 1: and vasiline trick? Right? A lot of questions, A lot
Speaker 1: of questions.
Speaker 5: For this questions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean I think these stories though.
Speaker 4: It's like this is what we do when we I think.
Speaker 2: You know, you're excited about someone, you get so excited.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you you will believe what you want to believe.
Speaker 1: So you're right. It's like if somebody is telling you
Speaker 1: I want you so much that I'm cutting this ring
Speaker 1: off my finger, you are the one for me. It
Speaker 1: was so romantic at the two hour walk, like your
Speaker 1: brain is like chemical oxytocin excited. Yeah, and I think.
Speaker 4: You and like waiting all these years.
Speaker 2: To have that kind of experience where it finally feels aligned.
Speaker 4: Was like we go into like crazy person mode, you know.
Speaker 5: Such facts, and yeah it was.
Speaker 6: It was such facts like and when I look back
Speaker 6: at it, I'm like, you really settled. I only saw
Speaker 6: her two days a week and you weren't even full
Speaker 6: days because you had to go home to him.
Speaker 1: Wasn't he curious about the ring? I'm sorry, I keep going,
Speaker 1: what would be like, where's your ring? Girl?
Speaker 4: Well, there was a terrible accident.
Speaker 6: You know, if I wanted to be more more sure
Speaker 6: back then, I also would have had those questions.
Speaker 5: But I don't know if he wondered.
Speaker 6: And then I found out she had two boys, two kids,
Speaker 6: two kids.
Speaker 5: And so yeah, it was bad. That one was. It
Speaker 5: was real bad.
Speaker 6: During that time, I'm made a decision that I was
Speaker 6: more masculine than film. So I made a decision to
Speaker 6: reduce my breast significantly. And she told me that she
Speaker 6: would stay. I said, okay, So I did it and
Speaker 6: she left and she wasn't there to take She told
Speaker 6: me she would take care of me. She didn't, and
Speaker 6: so I ended up getting an infection in my right breast,
Speaker 6: and so no feeling there anymore. So when she left me,
Speaker 6: I had got this a house because I wanted to
Speaker 6: show her that I could take care of her, you know,
Speaker 6: and the two kids. You know that I was serious. So, yeah,
Speaker 6: she left me. I was still peeling for my wounds.
Speaker 6: I felt so stupid. It was just, yeah, what reason?
Speaker 1: Like what happened? Was there like a fight?
Speaker 6: Was there like a she said she realized that she
Speaker 6: wanted someone more film.
Speaker 1: Oh so why did she let you? Why did she
Speaker 1: encourage you to do the surgery? And this is like this,
Speaker 1: that's she is. It's her problem.
Speaker 6: When she met me, I had really entered this strong
Speaker 6: mask phace like I had bress. But I was very
Speaker 6: mass dressing, and so it wasn't like a surprise. It's
Speaker 6: just that when they left, I guess I wasn't pleasing
Speaker 6: to the eye anymore.
Speaker 4: But how can you feel since you have surgery?
Speaker 6: So in the beginning, I thought I was doing it
Speaker 6: for myself. Now that I have more emotional maturity, I
Speaker 6: realized I did it because I really wanted to be
Speaker 6: accepted by the queer community.
Speaker 5: It's been hard being.
Speaker 6: A black lesbian in this community in Minneapolis. It's very clique.
Speaker 6: It's very hard to date or meet anyone. And so
Speaker 6: the decisions I made cutting off my hair, minimizing my
Speaker 6: breast are if I choose to where just masculine, it's
Speaker 6: like I'm invisible. I've dealt with it, I've made peace
Speaker 6: with it. Why I did it, and now I make
Speaker 6: decisions for myself because I want to do it. But yeah,
Speaker 6: back then, I was like, I want to fit my
Speaker 6: button up shirts. My breasts are in a way.
Speaker 2: I think it's a struggle for a lot of like
Speaker 2: mass presenting lesbians. You know, like the clothing it's not
Speaker 2: designed for larger chests, and a lot of the time,
Speaker 2: like even buying men's clothing, you know, it's can't get
Speaker 2: big enough.
Speaker 6: So because if you buy it too big, it's it's
Speaker 6: right up here because it's huge down there.
Speaker 5: And so yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit too though about you
Speaker 2: mentioned a few things about being in the black community.
Speaker 4: For one, I've heard.
Speaker 2: This of like, you know, you're kind of judged within
Speaker 2: your community for being gay, but then it also sounds
Speaker 2: like and then they're not going to like let you
Speaker 2: in the group when you are.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 6: So I'm I'm from Ohio, I'm not from Minneapolis. I
Speaker 6: moved here when I was like very young, and but
Speaker 6: I realized immediately that the black sister I was was
Speaker 6: not going to function in Minneapolis. I would be blacklisted.
Speaker 6: So I co switched immediately the jobs I wanted to acquire.
Speaker 6: The corporate jobs. I knew that I had to talk
Speaker 6: a certain way, act a certain way, dresses certain way.
Speaker 6: And so because I've been in my own since I
Speaker 6: was basically seventeen, I literally entered the corporate world at
Speaker 6: eighteen and I haven't left. So now I'm forty four,
Speaker 6: and I'm this very properly talking the very friendly, bubbly person.
Speaker 6: And so usually my people have cold that went into
Speaker 6: you know, they've got some street credit, some former of
Speaker 6: black history or flow or ethnic that I don't have.
Speaker 6: A lot of times I call myself a white black
Speaker 6: girl because it's when I try to spend time with them,
Speaker 6: it's just they're like, you're too white, like you don't
Speaker 6: understand us.
Speaker 5: I'm like, I was just trying to make it.
Speaker 1: Because I remember years ago watching an Oprah's who like
Speaker 1: had a story about the black community on the down low,
Speaker 1: and she was like, there's a whole sub community of
Speaker 1: gay black men. It was what she was talking about.
Speaker 1: But she was like, because culturally, it's you're so disenfranchised
Speaker 1: if you are a gay black person, and so they
Speaker 1: end up having bigger issues because they're having to find
Speaker 1: sex on the street or like you know, doing drugs
Speaker 1: because you're not accepted and you're kicked out at a
Speaker 1: young age. So obviously it's happening to women too. But
Speaker 1: I'm curious, like why is is it because you're already
Speaker 1: marginalized or is it because there's more of a religious doctrine?
Speaker 1: Like what is it that makes I wouldn't say the
Speaker 1: white community is fabulous all around, but it does seem
Speaker 1: more accepting than the black community. And I'm so curious
Speaker 1: why you would say that's true.
Speaker 6: You know, it's so funny because I never want to
Speaker 6: complain about something until I've done everything I can to
Speaker 6: break it. So we have like little get togethers here
Speaker 6: in the cities. They'll be like an LGBTQ event, So
Speaker 6: I'll go to all of them. I've been to hockey games,
Speaker 6: breakfast as, social get togethers, feed dates, all of it,
Speaker 6: and it's it's and I've literally like, why are you
Speaker 6: afraid of us, because that's what it feels like. It's
Speaker 6: like everyone else is talking, but I'm in a corner.
Speaker 6: It's okay, room queer people and feel completely alone.
Speaker 1: Even the queer community is isolated. Yes, okay, black and white.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter color. It's more just like something about
Speaker 1: you feel like your situation.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know it's funny, it's not even I've
Speaker 6: talked to other people of color who feel.
Speaker 5: The same way. But and you're right, what we do
Speaker 5: is we isolate.
Speaker 6: And the men are lucky, like you said, they can
Speaker 6: meet some guy on the the street, or they can
Speaker 6: find someone on grinder. They can do that and be satisfied.
Speaker 6: I'm demi sexual, so before I'm into with someone, I
Speaker 6: have to form an emotional connection to them. And I've
Speaker 6: literally had women message me like and I'm sorry, I can't.
Speaker 6: That's just not who I am. And it's lonely a
Speaker 6: lot of times, like especially since I've made a decision
Speaker 6: that I'm not going to take married women, it seems
Speaker 6: like that's what everybody wants.
Speaker 5: I don't get it, but it's lonely a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's what is tell us the definition for people
Speaker 1: that don't know of demisexual.
Speaker 6: So give me sexual Is you require an emotional connection
Speaker 6: in order to be into it with someone?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you're right, like a man doesn't necessarily biologically
Speaker 1: need that, so he can just meet someone at a club,
Speaker 1: go home with them, and never talk to them again.
Speaker 1: Versus you're right, like a woman, you're not going to
Speaker 1: a club and just very often, I mean that would
Speaker 1: you don't hear about that as much. And we have
Speaker 1: a lot of gay friends. I don't know that. I
Speaker 1: can't think of any of our friends.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's also like a little bit more
Speaker 2: on like the maturity side, you know, like we're not
Speaker 2: in our twenties, so the idea of just hooking up
Speaker 2: with a stranger that I just.
Speaker 4: Met that day or whatever is like.
Speaker 2: So foreign to me now, Like I relate to what
Speaker 2: you're saying, like I need to know totally are like
Speaker 2: how you tick all those things in order to find
Speaker 2: somebody attractive.
Speaker 1: But think about like a single forty year old man.
Speaker 1: It see, he'll go home with anyone he doesn't care.
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, hands want a resume in references?
Speaker 1: Yeah you want references?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's disappointing because what we do is so intimate
Speaker 6: to me, And I know there's different forms of sex,
Speaker 6: but I'm the full Monty. So for me, it's not
Speaker 6: just some people see it as fucking. I don't see
Speaker 6: how you do that with a woman. It's I don't
Speaker 6: see how that's possible.
Speaker 5: It's art. To me, it's passion.
Speaker 6: Like how many people can say that you come with
Speaker 6: your partner at the same time and you're not even
Speaker 6: touching you, but you're giving them pleasure. Like, that's emotion,
Speaker 6: that's that's breath connecting, that's mind's coming together, that's you
Speaker 6: feeling that person with your heart and your soul. That's
Speaker 6: what I want. I don't want the basic stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just gonna.
Speaker 1: Say, when you're at the dating things, how does that
Speaker 1: come across? Like what creates a situation that you end
Speaker 1: up getting alienated? It is it like is it mostly
Speaker 1: a mixed crowd of black and white people, women, lesbians
Speaker 1: that are there at a speed date? And then is
Speaker 1: it that you off the bat are like like I
Speaker 1: would be like asking questions and trying to like get
Speaker 1: to know them so that maybe there is a connection,
Speaker 1: But it's like you feel like these people it's harder
Speaker 1: to connect for some reason.
Speaker 6: Actually, so when I go to these things, no one
Speaker 6: the only people that talk to me are usually married.
Speaker 6: I don't know why rut Polly Amory is big here.
Speaker 6: I want to I could have a lot of partners
Speaker 6: right now, like Polly. Women love me like I don't
Speaker 6: know why. But actually, yesterday I was at an event
Speaker 6: and three of them came out to me. I guess
Speaker 6: it's not my thing.
Speaker 5: I tried it. I ended up with a broken heart.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I don't like sharing my person.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how I feel like the GALY relates to
Speaker 4: that too. It's just like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I understand that it's a good fit for some people,
Speaker 2: but I just feel like it feels like being like
Speaker 2: on a team when you don't know that you could
Speaker 2: be kicked off at any time exactly.
Speaker 6: I tried an analogy, and I tried going into Maybe
Speaker 6: I need to be more open minded, so I tried
Speaker 6: going into poly events.
Speaker 5: Still nothing. It's funny, Alex.
Speaker 6: I know I'm special, I know I'm different, and so
Speaker 6: it's not going to be anyone that gets me, right.
Speaker 5: But I think the hard part is is.
Speaker 6: When you try and nothing happened, you know, right, And
Speaker 6: I don't look you know, obviously I don't have hair,
Speaker 6: I don't have breasts, So it's sometimes I wonder if
Speaker 6: that's part of the reason because I've made those decisions.
Speaker 1: But I know, of course that means far more. Like
Speaker 1: to me, I can tell when someone loves who they
Speaker 1: they are. I can tell when they're When I talk
Speaker 1: to somebody who has confidence about who they are, I'm
Speaker 1: at ease because I don't have to then make you
Speaker 1: feel some kind of way. So I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 1: And it could just be that the people at these
Speaker 1: events just aren't your people, yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Know, and like looking at your Instagram like you're a performer,
Speaker 2: like you're on stage singing, and but like your style.
Speaker 2: It definitely like there's some pictures where you're wearing a dress.
Speaker 2: There's somewhere you're wearing a button down, like it's very
Speaker 2: you know, there's two sides of it, and I think
Speaker 2: that's really intriguing. But maybe like you're kind of saying,
Speaker 2: people don't know what box to put you in, you know.
Speaker 6: But I think it's when you say that, Melissa, because
Speaker 6: like when I perform, I don't get a lot of
Speaker 6: gigs because they're like we don't know what you are.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're not a drag king, You're not a drag queen.
Speaker 6: Like what are you? I'm like, I'm just me. Yeah,
Speaker 6: And I don't want to be in the box. I
Speaker 6: love being non binary, you know, It's it's fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and I think it's really relatable.
Speaker 2: Ali and I talk about this a lot too, as
Speaker 2: far as like how coming out you start, your style
Speaker 2: changes so much, you know, like I spent years trying
Speaker 2: to play this role of like the straight suburban mom dressing,
Speaker 2: you know how I everybody around me was dressed. And
Speaker 2: now I'm just like, I don't care, and I want
Speaker 2: some days I want to look more masculine, some days
Speaker 2: I want to look more feminine. And it just kind
Speaker 2: of depends on the day totally.
Speaker 1: Do you think you're better now about picking available women?
Speaker 1: Not just the married thing, but BEM and married women
Speaker 1: are not available many times.
Speaker 2: For many being more mindful like yeah, approached by the
Speaker 2: poly people or the married people and being like it's
Speaker 2: not formal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it took me going through two more of them. Okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you keep learning the lesson until you learn it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's tell you, like, there's it's a there's a
Speaker 6: saying for it. Make make a fool of yourself or something.
Speaker 6: Times you gotta bump your head.
Speaker 1: But yeah, touch the stove.
Speaker 4: That's what I always say, the stove, like ten times.
Speaker 4: But I got to touch it like two more, like
Speaker 4: to make sure, just to be sure.
Speaker 6: But what's funny is it took me meeting the last one,
Speaker 6: like she's like my best friend now, which is crazy.
Speaker 6: And I'm proud of myself because you usually I used
Speaker 6: to always felt like I had to settle for what
Speaker 6: was there. But there's something I was going to I
Speaker 6: realized it's because my like my whole life, I never
Speaker 6: felt like loved scene or accepted. I've never felt like
Speaker 6: I was special. And when that woman looks at you
Speaker 6: that certain way, or you get to hold her hand,
Speaker 6: spend time together, I love companionship and I love physical touch,
Speaker 6: it's it's beautiful. And when I realized that was because
Speaker 6: I didn't didn't get coregulation as a child, or because
Speaker 6: there was a little version of me that needed to
Speaker 6: grow up. So once I started doing that work, I
Speaker 6: was able to mature and say no to those bad
Speaker 6: things and say no, I'm going to wait a lot
Speaker 6: of work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really interesting. It is, and to wait so
Speaker 1: that you're free when the emotionally available, healthy person comes along,
Speaker 1: you're ready. Yeah, what do you find yourself attracted to?
Speaker 6: My God, I love a good personality. I'm a big nerd,
Speaker 6: so I love me. I love me a nerd. I
Speaker 6: also I love I love to smell good, and I
Speaker 6: love to dress nice, and I like someone who loves themselves.
Speaker 5: I guess what.
Speaker 4: Kind of a nerdy things are you into?
Speaker 2: Because I know people say that, but they could be
Speaker 2: like a Star Wars nerd or like a Harry Potter
Speaker 2: nerd like neither neither.
Speaker 5: Nope.
Speaker 6: I am Batman, spider Man, Lord of the Rings, sailor
Speaker 6: Moon nerd.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you reconciled with your family?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 6: So my dad was very physically abusive to a point
Speaker 6: I've blacked out most of that time my childhood. So
Speaker 6: when my mom moved us here to Minneapolis, I didn't
Speaker 6: know she had me very young, so she kind of
Speaker 6: decided to do her whole phase. Yeah, she went wild,
Speaker 6: Like I was like, what the hell is going on?
Speaker 6: She forgot to be a mom. She became I'm very
Speaker 6: narcissistic and demanded stuff from us that was beyond was ridiculous.
Speaker 6: So she was a very horrible person. That's why I
Speaker 6: ran away at seventeen. Between that and her boyfriends were
Speaker 6: all drug lords, all of them. I mean, why do
Speaker 6: you get someone like, why is everyone into drugs?
Speaker 5: What the hell?
Speaker 6: Just yeah, you know, one of the guys actually ended
Speaker 6: up molesting me and gosh, yeah, she didn't believe me,
Speaker 6: so she sent me back to my abusive father.
Speaker 5: So that was it for me. I was like, okay,
Speaker 5: like I'm done.
Speaker 6: So yeah, we tried, and we've tried a couple of times,
Speaker 6: but in the end, she's just a horrible human being. Unfortunately,
Speaker 6: she turned my siblings against me, so I haven't seen
Speaker 6: any of them since twenty nineteen. Oh I'm sorry, thank you.
Speaker 5: Yeah about a lot.
Speaker 6: It was very painful because I knew that was all
Speaker 6: I knew was family, Like that's why I was taught,
Speaker 6: you know, was family is all you have. And sometimes
Speaker 6: it gets hard for me and my body's going through
Speaker 6: a lot physically right now.
Speaker 5: I'm wow.
Speaker 6: Love is my therapist always reminds me that there's just
Speaker 6: place in me of.
Speaker 5: Strength that I need to hold on to.
Speaker 6: Yeah, i'd always make sure I go find it so
Speaker 6: I can keep my head up.
Speaker 1: Oh. I love that. That's a great place to wrap
Speaker 1: because I think everybody needs to have that inside of
Speaker 1: them that they can pull from when times get hard.
Speaker 2: Yes, I can tell like you've got a love of
Speaker 2: love in your heart and positivity and you know, learn
Speaker 2: some hard lessons along the way.
Speaker 1: But we all, yeah, we're all coming back from something,
Speaker 1: so I agree. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Kiki
Speaker 1: for coming on Lesbian.
Speaker 5: Chronicles, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? You're a performer, so where
Speaker 1: can people watch you perform?
Speaker 5: My goodness?
Speaker 6: Okay, June sixth I will be at Anoka Pride Day
Speaker 6: perform me and then I will be in sink Cloud
Speaker 6: that evening at a drag show at b Side Music Cafe.
Speaker 6: Oh that's from six to nine. And then on the
Speaker 6: thirteenth of June, I will be hosting Slash performing at
Speaker 6: Golden Valley Pride. That's from twelve to six.
Speaker 4: Very cool, amazing on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Your love, Kiky Joy and we'll link that in our
Speaker 2: show notes too.
Speaker 4: So thanks awesome, thank you.
Speaker 1: So much, thank you, thank you, thank you for having on.
Speaker 1: Absolutely awesome By Bieye.
Speaker 4: I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast, Rate us
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Speaker 3: We love listener feedback.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to share your story, email us at
Speaker 1: Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com. That's Melissa M. E.
Speaker 1: L I. S A and Ali A L l I
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Or follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Lesbian Chronicles