WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.080 I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage 2 00:00:08.119 --> 00:00:09.359 and I have three kids. 3 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:12.359 I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came 4 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:14.960 out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage. 5 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:19.239 This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles 6 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:20.719 and victories that come with it. 7 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:22.920 When coming out feels like the end of the world, 8 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:24.920 but it's really just the beginning. 9 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:35.960 This is the Lesbian Chronicles. 10 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:40.520 Hey guys, quick trigger warning ahead of this episode, we 11 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:43.960 do talk about suicidal ideation and sexual abuse. 12 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:47.600 Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles. 13 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:50.600 I feel like I have to be like on now 14 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:52.600 that we're filming all these I'm like. 15 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:56.399 It makes me nervous when I see the TikTok. I know, 16 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.119 four yea three, it counts down. 17 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:01.439 It does like this five four three two one, and 18 00:01:01.479 --> 00:01:02.719 it's like, oh my. 19 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:09.079 God, we're live. Yeah, do it. So I want to 20 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:12.519 just start off by saying we did. You couldn't be 21 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:15.920 there and you would have freaking loved it. But just 22 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:18.680 the park, you know, for those of you who don't know, 23 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:23.680 we are doing a documentary about the Katie Janie murder. 24 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:27.319 It kind of will be sort of the documentary version 25 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:30.239 of the podcast that we did. We have some incredible 26 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:34.959 guests lined up. But we did a reenactment of the 27 00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:38.920 Dog and Katie in the park with Three Paul Productions. 28 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:42.640 It's a filmmaker that's making this documentary and we actually 29 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:46.079 were at Piedmont Park at the you know, at nighttime, 30 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:51.319 at the entrance and both entrances actually where there's speculation 31 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:57.400 that it happened. But the footage is so unbelievably real 32 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.840 and good that I just even the dog that we 33 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:07.319 used to play, Bowie, is spot on Bowie. Yeah. So 34 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:09.599 I just I think this is going to bring it 35 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:12.960 so much more real for people so they can kind 36 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:15.680 of really get a visual and see what happened. But 37 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:19.520 also seeing the park from the drone footage, the path, 38 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.199 the way it winds around in the city is just 39 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:26.479 I hadn't even seen that vantage point. So I think 40 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:28.719 it's it's going to be really really good. I'm excited 41 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:31.240 about who gets to see it and maybe what it 42 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:32.840 sparks and people to remember. 43 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:33.400 Yeah. 44 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.240 Absolutely, I mean we see that happen a lot with 45 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:40.199 some of these unsolved crimes, where you know, it just 46 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:43.080 takes someone like talking about it and kind of I 47 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:46.919 think adding new layers to it, new avenues to explore 48 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:50.560 and that's really what we're trying to do with it. 49 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:56.800 And yeah, like Sam with Three Paw Productions is amazing, 50 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:00.360 Like now is that you guys sent looked incredible? I 51 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.080 can't wait for people to see it. And yeah, it's 52 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:06.840 I think it does. Watching it actually, I was like 53 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:10.240 getting chills. Like the video, I was like this, God, 54 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:12.840 it gives such a different perspective like you're saying, and 55 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.240 it's and like, yeah, like seeing the aerial video of 56 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:20.520 Piedmont Park and it kind of really shows you how 57 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.599 wooded it is and that kind of the city and 58 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:26.360 the trees, you can just see how someone could have 59 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:28.360 gotten away so easily. 60 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:32.520 I still think it's bizarro that they didn't catch them, 61 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:36.280 but you can see now also though, in addition to 62 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:38.400 the fact that yes, they could have gotten away, you 63 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:42.039 also see how close these businesses are. So it's just 64 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.080 like here's the traffic light and the cars and the 65 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:49.000 side streets and the traffic just whizzing by. Yeah, it's 66 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:52.439 like it's not I think it's when people see it all, 67 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:58.520 they're going to be surprised. Welcome, Kiki, you made it. 68 00:03:58.719 --> 00:03:59.560 Sorry am I late? 69 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:04.280 Like, yeah, we are recording already though, just so. 70 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:06.479 You're we got it doing. We did a little we 71 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:09.000 were introducing We've got a documentary we're filming, so we 72 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:11.479 just kind of introduced it. But we want to focus 73 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:13.360 on you, Kiki. Thanks for joining us. 74 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:15.479 It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. 75 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:19.920 Yeah, so how did you guess? How did you find us? 76 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:23.480 I love I'm a performer here in the city in 77 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:26.800 Twin Cities, so I'm always looking for things to get 78 00:04:26.839 --> 00:04:29.759 involved in, our interested in and so I actually found 79 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:33.879 you through sapphic Social on Instagram. Okay, you were in 80 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.480 their stories. I was like lesbian chronicles. I was like, 81 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:41.079 what is that? I followed along and then I found 82 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:43.079 your page and I was like, oh this is cool. 83 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:47.319 Oh great, well, thank you. I'm going to remember that 84 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.959 sapphic Social and that's cities. 85 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:54.720 To write that down yea too, because we love any 86 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:58.079 organization that is trying to bring people together in specific 87 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:00.680 cities I think is amazing because it's you know, it's 88 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.800 one thing to be following some like lesbian page that 89 00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:07.600 doesn't have like a community behind it, and then when 90 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:08.240 you find one in. 91 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:11.000 Your city, it just feels like finding your people. 92 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:12.040 So exactly. 93 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:15.360 Yeah, And what she really means is she likes when 94 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:20.360 organizations plug us. That's what she really means. Tell us 95 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:23.319 a little bit about your your journey to get here. 96 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:27.480 Oh man, So I've actually been on my own since 97 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:32.480 I was seventeen. Yeah, yeah, well I think I knew 98 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.160 back then that I might be clearer, but it was 99 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:38.680 something that's frowned on in the black community. My mother 100 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:40.279 actually looked at me and she's I was going to 101 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:42.519 tell her I felt different, and she said, if you 102 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:44.240 ever say something like that to me, I'm gonna throw 103 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:48.120 you out. So that was when I was sixteen. So 104 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:50.360 it's just something I buried, like deep inside of me 105 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:54.839 and never approached again. I didn't date at all much 106 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:57.480 of my life. I was just really lost when it 107 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:00.319 came to that. I didn't understand why. I was like, 108 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:04.319 why do men not find me attractive? I was really confused. 109 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:09.800 Secretly though, I was watching women porn, but I was like, oh, 110 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:10.560 it's just a face. 111 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.319 I just think women are beautiful, and yeah, I'm in 112 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:13.920 the arts. 113 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:19.879 So right fast forward, I'm thirty eight COVID hits and 114 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:24.079 I am sent home to work from home, like I'm 115 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.000 locked in my own apartment by myself having to look 116 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:32.079 at myself, and it was scary to ignore what was 117 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:32.920 going on inside of me. 118 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:33.600 I went out a lot. 119 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:37.160 I was a super extrovert, never allowed myself to rest 120 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:39.560 or thing for myself, and when I had to do it, 121 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:42.480 I cried a lot. I had never been in therapy. 122 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:45.319 That's also something the black community does not do. Like 123 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:47.839 therapy is not something we do. You keep everything in 124 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:51.399 the house. But my chosen parents at the time, that's why. 125 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:53.720 That's why I know they were now. But back then 126 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:56.439 they said, we really think you should get a therapist. 127 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.399 And my first session, I was sharing my life with 128 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.720 her and she's like, do you think you might be gay? 129 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:06.600 And I remember I just cried. I never said it, like, 130 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:09.319 I never said it. I thought about it, but no 131 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:11.439 one had ever looked at me with so much acceptance 132 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:14.160 and said that to me. I said, I'm so sorry, 133 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:16.720 I can't stop crying, and she said, it's okay, you know, 134 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:17.959 lay it out. 135 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:20.480 Yeah. I just that was my whole session, was crying. 136 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:20.920 Yeah. 137 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:24.720 So you were thirty eight when that all went down. 138 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:28.199 It's interesting to me what you said about kind of 139 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:30.600 keeping yourself busy, and I think that's what so many 140 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:33.639 of us do, and like, there comes a point where 141 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:34.560 you can't stay. 142 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:36.399 Busy anymore and you've got to like sit in. 143 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:39.800 It was that how you felt was like it's just 144 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:42.680 once you sat that, the feelings and. 145 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:44.480 All that stuff and thoughts started going. 146 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:46.079 Yeah. 147 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:49.920 At this point, I didn't have much of a relationship 148 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:51.879 with my blood family. 149 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:53.199 I was on my own. 150 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:55.000 There was a lot of decisions I made in my 151 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:57.199 personal life that they didn't agree with. 152 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:01.240 I was. I was the black sheep, but out yet, No, 153 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:04.720 we're not in. Yeah, yeah, that's a whole other story. 154 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:10.839 My my my mother's a pastor, and so we used 155 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:13.720 to all be really religious. I was involved as well, 156 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:17.720 But around thirty five I started to think differently. There 157 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:21.360 are things I didn't agree with. I saw my first 158 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:24.680 Pride march, and I knew I was supposed to be there. 159 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:27.800 My church was strictly against it, but I wanted to 160 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:30.800 see what all this was about, and I cried the 161 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.679 whole time. I had never seen so much acceptance, Like 162 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:37.000 I'm like, this is what pride is. Like I thought 163 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:42.720 they were evil demon satanists, like like homosexuality. No, I'd 164 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:47.240 be praying for them, and I'm like it's they're happy, 165 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:50.519 like they were so happy. It just it was beautiful 166 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:53.799 that shifted me. I couldn't ignore it. So I'm sitting 167 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:56.000 in an apartment. I can't go out to dinner, I 168 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.960 can't go to happy my friends, I can't go to 169 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:01.480 movie theater. I can have to sit and look at 170 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:05.759 myself and figure out why I don't like me, Why 171 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:11.440 I hate being alone, Why I fear quiet. I never 172 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.399 had quiet. I always had something on, something going. It 173 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:19.600 just scared me. And that now I know, is because 174 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:22.279 there was so much happening inside me that I needed 175 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.240 to let out. Yeah, I was going to die. I 176 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:31.600 was really suicidal aft time. I would say between seventeen 177 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.039 and thirty eight, like I think I most took my 178 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:35.039 life like six times. 179 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:35.960 Oh my gosh. 180 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:37.159 I thought it was. 181 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:40.600 Because I was a horrible person, but it was because 182 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.639 there was this career person in me that wanted to 183 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:46.039 be out stay. I love women like I want to 184 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:49.440 kiss a girl, you know, Yeah, I want to express myself. 185 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:54.279 So yeah, So I sat there and once I said it, 186 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:58.559 I couldn't go back. Like it was too late. I 187 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:01.000 said I'm gay, and I was like, no, maybe I'm 188 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:04.120 bisexual because my mother. I was still trying to win 189 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.879 her back and she wanted grandkids. So I tried to 190 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:13.519 have sex with a diet. It was horrible. Yeah, yeah, 191 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:17.279 penetrate me. Like my body was like, no, are you okay? 192 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:22.600 I was like I really. He's like I need to 193 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:25.480 take a nap. I said, oh, oh jeez. 194 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:27.559 But he's laying in the bed next to me and 195 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:29.960 I'm just laughing like I'm gay. 196 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:31.159 Yeah, I. 197 00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:36.120 Said, can you leave? So he left and I invited 198 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:38.519 this girl over. We were both forty something, I mean, 199 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:41.320 excuse me, in her early forties, and I was like, 200 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.120 can you teach me how to talk to women? I 201 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:45.799 don't know what the hell I'm doing. It was horrible. 202 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.559 I had no cool gayness whatsoever. And she cames over 203 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.120 in his tiny dress and she's like. 204 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:52.919 I like you. I freaked the hell out. I was 205 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:54.679 in my batman pajamas. I didn't know. 206 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:59.919 It was fucking like she was there to teach you, 207 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:02.360 but she was like hitting on you. Oh my god. 208 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:03.759 Ready to take notes? 209 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.360 Yeah, I know. I was going to say I could 210 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:07.080 use some notes. 211 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:12.639 I was curious read the situation. 212 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:16.399 Yeah, I hadn't. 213 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:17.279 I haven't. 214 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:21.200 I hadn't dated at all. I felt so lost in naive. 215 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:23.840 She she said, you want to kiss me? And I 216 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:25.840 remember looking at her and I was like, the church 217 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:27.279 isn't here, my family isn't here. 218 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:29.200 In my own apartment, I can do this. 219 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:31.360 Nobody will know I'm an adult, yeah. 220 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:37.000 Which is It's funny because because I was so emotionally 221 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:42.039 scarred from past trauma and narcissism and physical, mental and 222 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:45.759 sexual abuse, I was still very much a child and 223 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:50.039 like this adult body, interesting teenager in this adult body. 224 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:51.799 So it was such innocence. 225 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:54.240 It was like when I kissed her, I said, I 226 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:57.919 don't hate I thought I hated sex. I've been a 227 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:01.559 victim of sexual assault before, so I thought sex wasn't 228 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.720 something that was for me. But when I kissed her, 229 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:06.080 I was like, wow, Like I felt my whole body 230 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:11.360 just go respond. I hadn't felt that years. And we 231 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:13.480 ended up consummating and I didn't know what the hell 232 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:14.000 I was doing. 233 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:19.480 I figured it out well, I know, on the job training. 234 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:22.840 On the job, I was so scared. 235 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:25.399 I was I said, what if I bite or miss 236 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:30.440 you know whatever something And it was the most beautiful 237 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:32.559 thing I've ever experienced in my life ever. 238 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:36.039 I love this, did she turn out to be more 239 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:39.440 than just that, or was it a relationship or it 240 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.200 was just a physical awakening. 241 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:43.399 This is where we get into the chronicles. So unfortunately, 242 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:47.480 I have this weird habit of attracting women who are married. 243 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.720 Oh no, we had sex that time. She left and 244 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:54.919 then she came back Another time. I ordered this pizza 245 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:57.039 and she's like, do you want to be my girlfriend? 246 00:12:57.080 --> 00:13:00.000 And I was like sure. It didn't last more than 247 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.240 a month, though, I ended up finding out she had 248 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:08.039 a real bad dread problem. She had a husband who 249 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:10.639 found out about me. That was interesting. I was like, 250 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:14.720 oh no, but I mean I enjoyed it while it lasted. 251 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:16.159 I mean I didn't know. 252 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:18.480 Yeah, yeah, I. 253 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:20.360 Didn't know there was such a thing as marathon sex. 254 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.360 But that was awesome, very good. 255 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:27.559 Well then, so then what after? So you that relationship's over, 256 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.000 then are you feeling confident of like, Okay, I've got 257 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:32.080 one under my belt. 258 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.960 It took me like six months before I met my 259 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:39.039 next one, and I swore to myself, I said, I'm 260 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:40.600 not going to get another woman that's married. 261 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:47.320 And we met in a walking group. Oh yeah, I'm 262 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:48.080 not doing it. 263 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:51.240 But we met in a walking group and I was 264 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.720 really attracted to her. It's funny because I get a 265 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:55.360 lot of shade for her. But I love dating white 266 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:58.720 girls or someone that's not my color. I call it 267 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.720 like cream in my coffee because I love seeing our 268 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.159 skin together. And I love how flushed your your skin gets, 269 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.480 when it's like you're like in a frozen passion. I 270 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:10.720 think it's beautiful. So I was like, so she was 271 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:13.320 no that car. I was like, oh, she has this 272 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:14.559 cute short hair. 273 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:16.360 And I was like, oh my god, oh my god. 274 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:19.600 So we talked the whole walk. It was like two hours, 275 00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:21.879 and I was really attracted to her. And then I 276 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:23.720 saw the ring on her finger. I said, I can't ask, 277 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:25.840 I'm sorry, and then she sends me a picture two 278 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.240 days later she has cut the ring off her finger, 279 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:30.559 like literally like it's a metal ring and she has 280 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:32.879 it's cut down the center and she said, I want 281 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:35.679 to show you that I'm committed to this after. 282 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:39.200 A walk, after a two hour walk. Okay, that's my 283 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:46.639 red flag right there. Forget the wedding ring. I was 284 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:49.399 so emotionally immature to your point. 285 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.200 I was almost mature, and I had watched too many 286 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:55.679 Disney princess movies and I was just like this is magic, 287 00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:57.799 this is what's supposed to be. Like I had this 288 00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:00.600 really stupid view of way to me rom com you know. 289 00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:07.639 So yeah, so we started dating and I found out 290 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.840 about her. Oh my god, it was worse than the 291 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:11.360 first one. 292 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:17.120 What Melissa and I are both wondering how she cut 293 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:20.559 the ring off? I can tell Melissa's at er. 294 00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:24.879 Yeah, I have that laying around, like like what. 295 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:29.279 She remember because the picture she sent me I saw 296 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.799 her stick shift. So I also wonder how. 297 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.639 Also, why couldn't you just do the old soap soap 298 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:37.919 and vasiline trick? Right? A lot of questions, A lot 299 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:39.039 of questions. 300 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:40.399 For this questions. 301 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.639 Yeah, but I mean I think these stories though. 302 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:47.120 It's like this is what we do when we I think. 303 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:50.159 You know, you're excited about someone, you get so excited. 304 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:55.039 Yeah, like you you will believe what you want to believe. 305 00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:57.679 So you're right. It's like if somebody is telling you 306 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:00.279 I want you so much that I'm cutting this ring 307 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.320 off my finger, you are the one for me. It 308 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.919 was so romantic at the two hour walk, like your 309 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:12.000 brain is like chemical oxytocin excited. Yeah, and I think. 310 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.080 You and like waiting all these years. 311 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.159 To have that kind of experience where it finally feels aligned. 312 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:21.720 Was like we go into like crazy person mode, you know. 313 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:24.159 Such facts, and yeah it was. 314 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:26.559 It was such facts like and when I look back 315 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:28.639 at it, I'm like, you really settled. I only saw 316 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:30.759 her two days a week and you weren't even full 317 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:32.759 days because you had to go home to him. 318 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:36.320 Wasn't he curious about the ring? I'm sorry, I keep going, 319 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:37.960 what would be like, where's your ring? Girl? 320 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:40.320 Well, there was a terrible accident. 321 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.559 You know, if I wanted to be more more sure 322 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.720 back then, I also would have had those questions. 323 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:49.039 But I don't know if he wondered. 324 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:53.399 And then I found out she had two boys, two kids, 325 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:55.399 two kids. 326 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:57.320 And so yeah, it was bad. That one was. It 327 00:16:57.399 --> 00:16:58.519 was real bad. 328 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.720 During that time, I'm made a decision that I was 329 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:05.240 more masculine than film. So I made a decision to 330 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:08.440 reduce my breast significantly. And she told me that she 331 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.119 would stay. I said, okay, So I did it and 332 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.799 she left and she wasn't there to take She told 333 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:15.599 me she would take care of me. She didn't, and 334 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:19.440 so I ended up getting an infection in my right breast, 335 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.559 and so no feeling there anymore. So when she left me, 336 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.480 I had got this a house because I wanted to 337 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.319 show her that I could take care of her, you know, 338 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.640 and the two kids. You know that I was serious. So, yeah, 339 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.480 she left me. I was still peeling for my wounds. 340 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.519 I felt so stupid. It was just, yeah, what reason? 341 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:42.759 Like what happened? Was there like a fight? 342 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:46.440 Was there like a she said she realized that she 343 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:47.799 wanted someone more film. 344 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:50.160 Oh so why did she let you? Why did she 345 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:53.519 encourage you to do the surgery? And this is like this, 346 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:55.720 that's she is. It's her problem. 347 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.319 When she met me, I had really entered this strong 348 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:02.359 mask phace like I had bress. But I was very 349 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.960 mass dressing, and so it wasn't like a surprise. It's 350 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:07.920 just that when they left, I guess I wasn't pleasing 351 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:08.799 to the eye anymore. 352 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.799 But how can you feel since you have surgery? 353 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.920 So in the beginning, I thought I was doing it 354 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.960 for myself. Now that I have more emotional maturity, I 355 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:20.920 realized I did it because I really wanted to be 356 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.119 accepted by the queer community. 357 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:25.440 It's been hard being. 358 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:31.759 A black lesbian in this community in Minneapolis. It's very clique. 359 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:36.519 It's very hard to date or meet anyone. And so 360 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:40.319 the decisions I made cutting off my hair, minimizing my 361 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:44.359 breast are if I choose to where just masculine, it's 362 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.200 like I'm invisible. I've dealt with it, I've made peace 363 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:50.799 with it. Why I did it, and now I make 364 00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:53.559 decisions for myself because I want to do it. But yeah, 365 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.240 back then, I was like, I want to fit my 366 00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:57.279 button up shirts. My breasts are in a way. 367 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:00.200 I think it's a struggle for a lot of like 368 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:05.599 mass presenting lesbians. You know, like the clothing it's not 369 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:08.960 designed for larger chests, and a lot of the time, 370 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.559 like even buying men's clothing, you know, it's can't get 371 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:12.359 big enough. 372 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:15.519 So because if you buy it too big, it's it's 373 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.480 right up here because it's huge down there. 374 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:18.400 And so yeah, I. 375 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:22.039 Can you talk a little bit too though about you 376 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.720 mentioned a few things about being in the black community. 377 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:26.839 For one, I've heard. 378 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.200 This of like, you know, you're kind of judged within 379 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:33.559 your community for being gay, but then it also sounds 380 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:35.039 like and then they're not going to like let you 381 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:36.480 in the group when you are. 382 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:38.200 Yeah, it's hard. 383 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:41.759 So I'm I'm from Ohio, I'm not from Minneapolis. I 384 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:43.920 moved here when I was like very young, and but 385 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:47.279 I realized immediately that the black sister I was was 386 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:50.319 not going to function in Minneapolis. I would be blacklisted. 387 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:54.880 So I co switched immediately the jobs I wanted to acquire. 388 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:57.400 The corporate jobs. I knew that I had to talk 389 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:00.319 a certain way, act a certain way, dresses certain way. 390 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.359 And so because I've been in my own since I 391 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:07.079 was basically seventeen, I literally entered the corporate world at 392 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.160 eighteen and I haven't left. So now I'm forty four, 393 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:17.920 and I'm this very properly talking the very friendly, bubbly person. 394 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:21.519 And so usually my people have cold that went into 395 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:24.480 you know, they've got some street credit, some former of 396 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:28.440 black history or flow or ethnic that I don't have. 397 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.240 A lot of times I call myself a white black 398 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:36.480 girl because it's when I try to spend time with them, 399 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.400 it's just they're like, you're too white, like you don't 400 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:40.160 understand us. 401 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.559