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Speaker 3: There was always the question in the back of my head,
Speaker 3: well where did Kane get his wife? And you know,
Speaker 3: in reading Young Earth creationist articles, they always would say like, well,
Speaker 3: you know, Kane got his wife because it was it
Speaker 3: was his sister. He ended up just marrying his sister.
Speaker 3: To me, that's kind of strange because later on in
Speaker 3: the Torah, uh, they are explicit laws that forbid the
Speaker 3: marriage of close siblings close relatives. Michael Jones from Inspiring
Speaker 3: Philosophy does a really good video about that where he
Speaker 3: makes the defense of there being other people outside of
Speaker 3: the land of Edon that Kane married into, as stating like,
Speaker 3: that's where Kane got his wife. And in that he
Speaker 3: he mentions in the Torah that it forbids the marriage
Speaker 3: of close relatives So that was one really interesting past
Speaker 3: that kind of change my perspective.
Speaker 1: What is happening and what is a hold out your
Speaker 1: glass because we're about to feel it up.
Speaker 4: All things continually lead back to serpents, dragons, fairies, nepheline,
Speaker 4: and fallen angels. In the distance looms a mystical mountain.
Speaker 4: As Mike Kaiser used to say, if it's in the
Speaker 4: Bible and it's weird, it's probably important. At its peak,
Speaker 4: a great fire burns, concealing the Prometheus lens.
Speaker 1: This development of this knowledge that's being talked about within
Speaker 1: the mystery.
Speaker 4: Schools, an ancient artifact said to reveal the hidden truth
Speaker 4: within a deliberately darkened world.
Speaker 2: There is a hidden history that's been deliberately obsercated from
Speaker 2: the people's little world.
Speaker 4: Join us as we travel and explore the vast unknown.
Speaker 4: It's a hero's journey with dragons to slay, damsel to save,
Speaker 4: and innumerable treasures to hoard.
Speaker 5: Torches high the Smithsonian they called Wind of the Giants.
Speaker 5: Gelt would send their agents out to get it. But
Speaker 5: it takes courage to move forward, to move out of
Speaker 5: the shadows, out of the cut reality that we think of.
Speaker 5: This reality.
Speaker 1: We are all on the Hero's journey.
Speaker 4: Mankind has been in contact with and influenced by extraterrestrials.
Speaker 1: Leave the citient mound of bull feathers out of it, you.
Speaker 3: Know, look at it from a different perspective, different perspective,
Speaker 3: different perspective.
Speaker 1: What is happening? And what is a old actual glass?
Speaker 1: Because we are about to feel welcome to the Prometheus
Speaker 1: Lens podcast place with the conversations are always enlightening. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, justin here. We like to use the allegory
Speaker 1: of the Prometheus Lens to take a second look at everything. Well, hey, guys,
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Speaker 1: check out the banner below. We'll have all of our
Speaker 1: socials and various platforms come check us out. Be much
Speaker 1: much appreciated. Well, today we're going to have another organic conversation.
Speaker 1: A guy I met on Facebook and we've been having
Speaker 1: some conversations and he is an author and he has
Speaker 1: written a book on the subject matter of Cain and
Speaker 1: as you guys know, with the research and stuff that
Speaker 1: I've been doing with the Epic of Esaw, Caine falls
Speaker 1: writing into line with that. So me and him has
Speaker 1: been having some conversations through DMS, and I just ask
Speaker 1: me if he'd be willing to come on the show
Speaker 1: and talk about his book and some of his research
Speaker 1: and his findings, and he was willing to do that.
Speaker 1: So we're really excited just to sit down and talk
Speaker 1: with this author today. But his name is Briar Cater
Speaker 1: and I even asked you before. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: tell me how to say your name. I do not
Speaker 1: want to mess it up, brother, But just thank you
Speaker 1: for coming on. Man.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 3: And don't feel bad because most people get my name
Speaker 3: wrong initially anyway.
Speaker 2: So you did good. You got it right the first time.
Speaker 1: Sweet. Yeah. I always joke. I was like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: Southern man, so I can barely speak English, so when
Speaker 1: you throw into a little bit of complicated stuff, man,
Speaker 1: I'm bound to mess it up.
Speaker 2: No, you did good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, man, just give us a little background. Let
Speaker 1: us know where you're from, what's your interest hobbies, How
Speaker 1: you got into this kind of thing? Just give us
Speaker 1: a little bit of a bill of who you are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3: Like Justin said, my name is Briar Cater, I'm a
Speaker 3: nurse by trade, but by interest, I'm a Bible junkie.
Speaker 3: I love everything weird in the Bible, always have, and
Speaker 3: that's really what motivated me to write this book in
Speaker 3: the first place. Is my lifelong desire to pursue truth
Speaker 3: and figure out what the scriptures really have in store
Speaker 3: for us. A little bit of personal stuff. I'm the
Speaker 3: father of two beautiful daughters, I'm the husband to a
Speaker 3: gorgeous wife, and just live in the dream.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, Well, how did you end up getting
Speaker 1: into this? I know we had a little bit of
Speaker 1: conversation before we got started. You want to share that
Speaker 1: with the listeners, kind of your inspiration on getting into writing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. I've always loved writing.
Speaker 3: Even in high school, I would write, you know, papers
Speaker 3: that they would have us write in English class. I
Speaker 3: would purposely write more pages than necessary just so that
Speaker 3: I could get a story together, because I just love
Speaker 3: the idea of putting stories together. So the idea for
Speaker 3: Keenan Told really kind of has been a bit of
Speaker 3: a five year journey so about five.
Speaker 2: Well back up a little bit.
Speaker 3: Most of my life, I've been what I'm sure a
Speaker 3: lot of your listeners have heard of called a young
Speaker 3: Earth creationist. You know, the belief that per the Bible,
Speaker 3: the Earth is six thousand years old plus the six
Speaker 3: days of creation, and you get those six thousand years
Speaker 3: by adding up the genealogies in Genesis and so on
Speaker 3: and so forth, and then the two thousand years since Christ.
Speaker 3: So about five years ago, for some reason, I'm not
Speaker 3: entirely sure what's spurred it on, but I really started
Speaker 3: thinking about, like, why do I believe what I believe? Like,
Speaker 3: why why do I believe that, you know, the Earth
Speaker 3: is only six thousand years old?
Speaker 2: Does the Bible really say this?
Speaker 3: So I started to really critically think about it, think about,
Speaker 3: you know, different papers that were put out, different research
Speaker 3: that was put out, and I started to come to
Speaker 3: the realization like it.
Speaker 2: Might not be one way or the other.
Speaker 3: It might not be the Earth has to be young
Speaker 3: or the Earth has to be old. There's a little
Speaker 3: bit of wiggle room in there, and so in that
Speaker 3: that's one piece, that's the historical piece of it.
Speaker 2: The other piece is what you.
Speaker 3: Talk a lot about on the show the Divine Council worldview,
Speaker 3: and as we were talking before we started, Brian Goadowa
Speaker 3: was a major major influence for me. His book Noah
Speaker 3: Primeval really kind of opened my eyes to what scripture
Speaker 3: really is getting at, how there there really is like
Speaker 3: a divine council, a divine set of suns that God
Speaker 3: divvys up different responsibilities to. So I know that a
Speaker 3: lot of people say that the late great Michael Heiser
Speaker 3: was you know, their their entrance into it, and he's
Speaker 3: got a lot of really really cool material out there
Speaker 3: that I definitely delved into, definitely helped build my own worldview.
Speaker 3: But I initially, initially it started with Gadau, which is
Speaker 3: kind of ironic because you know, I'm an author, so
Speaker 3: it kind of comes full circle. But so that's that's
Speaker 3: the historical aspect, that's the fictional aspect of it. And
Speaker 3: I kind of blended those two together and my love
Speaker 3: of storytelling, my love of writing into what I think
Speaker 3: is a really kind of touching story of you know, yes,
Speaker 3: it's the first murderer, but it kind of asked the
Speaker 3: question like, well, what if Kin asked for redemption? What
Speaker 3: what what would happen if he actually sought the redemption.
Speaker 2: And throughout the.
Speaker 3: Story it's it I think at its core, it's a good,
Speaker 3: wholesome story of a grandfather doing whatever he could to
Speaker 3: save his grandson.
Speaker 1: Well, uh, that's one thing too, I tell people is
Speaker 1: we are all different and God is you know our father.
Speaker 1: So if you have kids, you know each kid has
Speaker 1: a different personality, each kid has a different love language.
Speaker 1: You have to deal with each kid on an individual basis.
Speaker 1: And you and your love for storytelling and your love
Speaker 1: of story that's how Brian Goodala's work actually touched you
Speaker 1: and influenced you. And so therefore this is kind of
Speaker 1: your your witness and testimony and way of doing your
Speaker 1: part for the kingdom. Me. I was never a very
Speaker 1: creative guy and stuff like that, but I always like
Speaker 1: to talk, So this is my.
Speaker 2: Way there you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, so you had mentioned the title as you
Speaker 1: were talking. It was Cain Untold and in the subtitle
Speaker 1: it says book one. So this is something that you
Speaker 1: are planning a series, kind of like the Nephilin chronicles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, more or less modeled after that.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to hopefully be bringing out book two
Speaker 3: sometime next year. I'm currently going through some rewriting for
Speaker 3: a second edition of the first book. I just kind
Speaker 3: of want to clean it up, make it as good
Speaker 3: and crisp as I possibly can.
Speaker 2: Hopefully.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm setting the deadline for myself. I'm releasing it
Speaker 3: in September, new cover, our new storylines and whatnot, So
Speaker 3: I think it's going to be a really robust and
Speaker 3: cool story. But yeah, I've kind of in my own
Speaker 3: head and in my notes and everything, titled the series
Speaker 3: the Kenite Chronicles, and it comes from the concept of
Speaker 3: the people group the Kennites in the Bible, who a
Speaker 3: lot of people don't realize are descended from, or at
Speaker 3: least hinted at being descended from Kine himself. The Kennites,
Speaker 3: for folks that don't know, are the people group that
Speaker 3: Moses went and stayed with when he fled Pharaoh, when
Speaker 3: he fled the land of Egypt. So Zipporah and Jethro,
Speaker 3: moses father in law, they were Kennites, and a lot
Speaker 3: of the Kenites ended up coming up into the land
Speaker 3: of Israel with the Israelites. And there's a lot of
Speaker 3: different spots in scripture where the two people groups kind
Speaker 3: of intersect. You have the Israelites and the Kenites and
Speaker 3: their storylines intersect in some really really cool ways and
Speaker 3: in ways that actually kind of speak to that whole
Speaker 3: redemption arc that I was talking about with Cain in
Speaker 3: a really really fascinating way in the Book of Jeremiah.
Speaker 1: Well with Cain, you know, of course, I mean, we
Speaker 1: don't want to give away the entire book, but through
Speaker 1: your your studies and stuff, because this is not just
Speaker 1: a fiction story where you've just you know, made up
Speaker 1: in a complete, a complete narrative for Caine, this is
Speaker 1: something that you've researched and found information, and you've basically
Speaker 1: just retold this story but through in some some entertainment
Speaker 1: and some storytelling and twists and turns. But the actual
Speaker 1: base of this is a biblical base, correct.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, I like to think of it as a
Speaker 3: novelization of Genesis four.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, that's awesome. What with with your studies and
Speaker 1: the stuff you found. Was there anything that that you
Speaker 1: found out knew that was kind of eye opening for
Speaker 1: you or something maybe that you thought you you and
Speaker 1: you find out different through your studies and research.
Speaker 3: Yes, so absolutely, I'll start with one. When I was
Speaker 3: talking about the whole Young Young Earth creationism and kind
Speaker 3: of coming out of that sort of worldview. There was
Speaker 3: always the question in the back of my head, well,
Speaker 3: where did Kane get his wife? And you know, in
Speaker 3: reading Young Earth creationist articles, they always would say like, well,
Speaker 3: you know, Cain got his wife because it was it
Speaker 3: was his sister. He ended up just marrying his sister.
Speaker 3: To me, that's kind of strange because later on in
Speaker 3: the Torah they are explicit laws that forbid the marriage
Speaker 3: of close siblings close relatives. Michael Jones from Inspiring Philosophy
Speaker 3: does a really good video about that where he makes
Speaker 3: the defense of there being other people outside of the
Speaker 3: land of Eden that Caine married into as stating like
Speaker 3: that's where he got his wife. And in that he
Speaker 3: mentions in the Torah that it forbids the marriage of
Speaker 3: close relatives.
Speaker 2: So that was one.
Speaker 3: Really interesting piece that kind of changed my perspective. Then
Speaker 3: I kind of followed that Rabbit Trail were like, if
Speaker 3: there were people outside of the land of Eden that
Speaker 3: weren't Adam and Eve's kids, where in the world did
Speaker 3: they come from?
Speaker 2: And I kind.
Speaker 3: Of tie that together with the whole Genesis six narrative
Speaker 3: the sons of God. See it says that the sons
Speaker 3: of God married and married the daughters of Adam. That's
Speaker 3: literally how the Hebrew translates. But the phrase sons of
Speaker 3: God beneja Alohim, that actually can be translated sons of
Speaker 3: the gods. Now what do I mean by that? Sons
Speaker 3: of the gods would then mean that whatever these beings
Speaker 3: were were descended from the Aloheim, the gods. And in
Speaker 3: certain Ugarittic and other Canaanite literature, the Elohim are is
Speaker 3: the name given for the actual sons of Elohem, God,
Speaker 3: the god el the high God of the Divine Council.
Speaker 3: So if these beings, whatever they were, are these sons
Speaker 3: of the actual what we would what we normally think
Speaker 3: of the sons of God and the Divine Council worldview,
Speaker 3: then how did how did they get there? So I
Speaker 3: kind of followed that rabbit trail as well, and I
Speaker 3: stumbled upon a gentleman by the name of Joshua Swamadas
Speaker 3: as Joshua Swamadas, and he wrote a book called the
Speaker 3: Genealogical Adam and Eve. And in that book he talks
Speaker 3: about how it's completely bil it's completely within biblical means
Speaker 3: biblical interpretation to state that Adam and Eve were specially
Speaker 3: created from well, Adam created from dust, and then Eve
Speaker 3: created from Adam's rib, and then there's still to be
Speaker 3: a wider population outside of the land of Ethen that
Speaker 3: their children married into, had kids with, so on and
Speaker 3: so forth. So I call these in turning this into
Speaker 3: like a novelization, I called these other people the wanderers,
Speaker 3: and I lay out in the book how these wanderers
Speaker 3: are actually people that are descended from the fallen sons
Speaker 3: of God. They in psalmighty two, it talks about how
Speaker 3: it talks about how the sons of God fell, and
Speaker 3: God says that you're going to die like Adam basically
Speaker 3: become mortal.
Speaker 2: So in the.
Speaker 3: Perspective of my book, this fall of the angels occurred
Speaker 3: at the same time as Adam's fall, and when they fell,
Speaker 3: they basically became mortal, they became human beings. And then
Speaker 3: so the wider population outside of the land of Eden
Speaker 3: is their descendants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, And that was me once I got
Speaker 1: to reading and study and I was asking myself the
Speaker 1: question because how it's worded in Genesis, it says you know,
Speaker 1: on the sixth Day, he created, know, humanity, male and female,
Speaker 1: and then later on you get you know, the details
Speaker 1: of the creation of Adam and Eve, and a lot
Speaker 1: of people were saying that, oh, that was just a
Speaker 1: generalized statement, but then it goes into more detail of
Speaker 1: the creation of Adam and Eve. And I was like you,
Speaker 1: I sat back, and I was like, they get kicked
Speaker 1: out of Eden and then all of a sudden their
Speaker 1: kids find mates and stuff. So could it be that
Speaker 1: in Genesis they when they said that they he created
Speaker 1: humanity and mankind, you know, both male and female. That boom,
Speaker 1: He planted all these people on earth. But it was
Speaker 1: like Adam and Eve were his special pet project, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, because like they were the ones
Speaker 1: that were direct, you know, sons of God, and so
Speaker 1: when they fail, they became like everybody else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's something that Joshuamaus touches on as well
Speaker 3: in his book. He talks about how, you know, the
Speaker 3: general creation occurred in Genesis one twenty six, and then
Speaker 3: the special creation of Adam and Eve happened afterward.
Speaker 2: In Genesis two.
Speaker 3: And I think John Walton that also makes mention of
Speaker 3: it in his book The Lost World of Adam and Eve,
Speaker 3: where he says that he basically describes Adam and Eve's
Speaker 3: creation as an eighth day of creation, so like a
Speaker 3: totally separate, you know, act of creation in the cosmos.
Speaker 3: And a lot of people will sit there and say, well,
Speaker 3: God stopped creating on day seven, so that that can't
Speaker 3: be it. Well, then what do you say about the
Speaker 3: miracles of Jesus. Jesus made bread and fish out of
Speaker 3: thin air. Does that mean that He's forbidden from creating
Speaker 3: things just because God rested on the seventh day. I
Speaker 3: don't think that's the case at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something too, is everybody's different, but it's
Speaker 1: like God created us to want to seek him out
Speaker 1: and to ask these questions and to ponder and to seek.
Speaker 1: And you know, like I said at the beginning, to
Speaker 1: show you know, everybody's different. You know, not everyone's the same,
Speaker 1: but it's like the ones that were programmed to want
Speaker 1: to seek and find these things out and ask these questions.
Speaker 1: Some people, many they build up their fences, you know,
Speaker 1: around their yard, and they think that I have to
Speaker 1: stay in this yard. I can't cross the fence, I
Speaker 1: can't even look over the fence. Well, there's some of
Speaker 1: us men that want to hop that fence, yeah, and
Speaker 1: go explore. So you can't try to hold those people
Speaker 1: back because from my perspective, it's you know, God is
Speaker 1: the creator of the universe, and the Word is very important,
Speaker 1: but it's like, it's not God and his word is
Speaker 1: not so fragile of a thing. By asking good questions
Speaker 1: and looking at alternative meanings and things like that, that
Speaker 1: you are going to break God or break his word,
Speaker 1: and if you do, then you know, he's not a
Speaker 1: god worthy of worship anyway, which I don't believe that's
Speaker 1: the case. But it's like, yeah, I mean, the Bible
Speaker 1: is so important. It's a divine word of God. Don't
Speaker 1: take me out of context, anybody listening. But it's like,
Speaker 1: there's plenty of things that happened that are documented and
Speaker 1: proven history that was not in the Bible. So just
Speaker 1: because something's not in the Bible doesn't mean that it
Speaker 1: didn't happen. We have to be able to keep an
Speaker 1: open mind and ask good questions and to look into things.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3: It's really funny that you bring that up about the
Speaker 3: pursuit of knowledge. I actually gave a talk at a
Speaker 3: men's prayer breakfast at my church. I think it was
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago, and that's exactly what I
Speaker 3: talked about, is there is a specific group of people
Speaker 3: that are not satisfied with whatever answers are just given
Speaker 3: us the status quo. They purposely seek out the truth
Speaker 3: and were called to do that. As Christians, it's mandated
Speaker 3: for us to pursue truth. Jesus Christ is the way,
Speaker 3: the truth, and the life, and he says that we
Speaker 3: have to pursue him. We have to follow after him.
Speaker 3: Come and abide, Come and follow, Come and see. I
Speaker 3: gave the example of the great science Renaissance scientist Galileo.
Speaker 3: Galileo was the gentleman that came up with He didn't
Speaker 3: come up with the heliocentric model, but he basically popularized it.
Speaker 3: He came up with the evidence that in favor of
Speaker 3: the Sun being the center of the solar system and
Speaker 3: all the Earth and all the planets overting around it.
Speaker 3: And he was crucified by the Church for it was
Speaker 3: he was a Christian man himself. He was, you know,
Speaker 3: a godly man. He loved the scripture, he loved his God.
Speaker 3: But yet he was still crucified for it because it
Speaker 3: threatened the authority of the church. And I think a
Speaker 3: lot of times what the type of folks that you
Speaker 3: were talking about, that you know, stake their claim their fence,
Speaker 3: that's kind of where that comes from. You know, they
Speaker 3: feel like their worldview is so rattled and so shaken
Speaker 3: up that they flee away from any kind of idea
Speaker 3: that is contrary to what they what they believe, whether
Speaker 3: it's scriptural or not. Of course, there are things in
Speaker 3: scripture that are not negotiable. Jesus Christ has risen from
Speaker 3: the dead, you know. The apostle Paul says in one
Speaker 3: Corinthians fifteen that anybody that tries to say there's no
Speaker 3: resurrection from the dead, well tell them that what you
Speaker 3: believe is bunk. Then you know, there's no reason to
Speaker 3: believe in any of the stuff in the Bible of
Speaker 3: Jesus is risen from the dead. So that's one thing
Speaker 3: that's not negotiable, of course. But things that are a
Speaker 3: little bit more hazy. You know, did Cain marry someone
Speaker 3: from someone that was descended that wasn't from his parents?
Speaker 3: Did the earth really was the earth really created six
Speaker 3: thousand years ago?
Speaker 2: I would argue that those things are up to interpretation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even if we find these things are completely
Speaker 1: the opposite end of what we've been taught, that doesn't
Speaker 1: destroy your faith, right, you know, because the foundations of
Speaker 1: the faith you know is Christ and like you said,
Speaker 1: those things are non negotiable. So all these other things
Speaker 1: are just non salvate, you know, non salvation issue. So
Speaker 1: you know, it shouldn't cause divide and division and and
Speaker 1: the things that it normally does. But that's a spirit
Speaker 1: of pride, I believe.
Speaker 2: Very much so.
Speaker 3: And it's funny because you know, pride was what you know,
Speaker 3: brings a lot of it's what brings a lot of
Speaker 3: people down. Was the original sin, if you think about it.
Speaker 3: So folks need to be careful.
Speaker 2: I need.
Speaker 3: We need to be careful as men, especially because men have,
Speaker 3: you know, the tendency to be prideful, whether it's in
Speaker 3: our families, our beliefs, our thoughts, whatever. So I've got
Speaker 3: to check myself to just as much as anybody.
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Speaker 1: Well with you in the research. What do you believe
Speaker 1: the famous mark Caine's marking? What's your take on that
Speaker 1: or what do you think that was physical mark of
Speaker 1: some kind or was this a spiritual marking? Is is
Speaker 1: he the first vampire still in the earth today?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 1: What's what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I actually have quite a bit that we
Speaker 3: can talk about there. So I believe it's in the
Speaker 3: Book of Ezekiel where it talks about an angel going
Speaker 3: through the city of Jerusalem and placing a mark on
Speaker 3: all of all of the people that God has decided
Speaker 3: are not going to be killed in the onslaught from Babylon.
Speaker 3: I believe it was Babylon. Yeah, it was a Babylon
Speaker 3: And that word for mark is it's the Hebrew word
Speaker 3: top top. Yes, actually have a two of it right
Speaker 3: here on the back of my neck. I got that
Speaker 3: when I became a father just to signify me being
Speaker 3: the protector of my family, God ordaining me as the
Speaker 3: protector of my family. So that's what I kind of
Speaker 3: take in the novel at least to be the mark
Speaker 3: of Kine, some sort of X mark, and I have
Speaker 3: it put on the back of his neck just because
Speaker 3: any any son of a disciplinarian mother knows that's like
Speaker 3: the worst spot to get hit is the back of
Speaker 3: the neck or the back of the head. So when
Speaker 3: I when I wrote the dramatization for it, I wanted
Speaker 3: to make it kind of painful for Kine so that
Speaker 3: he has a constant reminder of what he's been marked
Speaker 3: for and why he's been marked. So that's that's the
Speaker 3: mark of Kine position that I had taken the novel.
Speaker 3: As to whether that's what it really was, I tend
Speaker 3: to think that it was a physical mark, but it
Speaker 3: had supernatural properties. It was something that marked him as
Speaker 3: different from the rest of the world. But whether it
Speaker 3: was something that's instinctive to anything that would try to
Speaker 3: kill him or something that people would just recognize as
Speaker 3: or don't touch this guy, or you're going to be
Speaker 3: avenged sevenfold, then I'm not sure about. In the novel,
Speaker 3: I take the position that, like, it's just something that's
Speaker 3: kind of built into the very fabric of every everything
Speaker 3: that comes against Kane, everything that tries to kill him,
Speaker 3: they just know, oh my gosh, don't kill him or
Speaker 3: else it's gonna it's gonna be bad, even even down
Speaker 3: to animals that they come in contact with.
Speaker 2: So that's that's the kind of the position that I
Speaker 2: take as far.
Speaker 3: As the market Kine goes. And then what was the
Speaker 3: second part of that, I kind.
Speaker 2: Of got off the tangent thy oh.
Speaker 1: I was, you know, kind of being facetious. You know
Speaker 1: how some people will say that, you know, he was
Speaker 1: the first vampire cursed to live forever, and then you
Speaker 1: get the movie series, Uh, Lucifer, you know, Kane was
Speaker 1: cursed to live forever and he was constantly yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: seeking for someone to kill him in Andy's life.
Speaker 3: And there's actually a point there that I want to
Speaker 3: make that's actually really cool. So because Kine is the
Speaker 3: firstborn son of Adam and Eve, that means he's one
Speaker 3: generation removed from Adam and Eve, right, that would mean
Speaker 3: that he whatever his genetics, spiritual makeup, whatever you want
Speaker 3: to call it he would have likely lived as long
Speaker 3: or within reason to as long as Adam and Eve
Speaker 3: would have lived.
Speaker 2: And you see before the flood.
Speaker 3: All of Adam and Eve's children, their descendants, they live
Speaker 3: up into like the nine hundreds, just about with the
Speaker 3: exception of a couple like Lamec and Noah or no,
Speaker 3: maybe Noah does, but I can't remember exactly. The point is,
Speaker 3: whatever Adam and Eve had, they gave them their longevity.
Speaker 3: It was passed down to Caine. Now I have in
Speaker 3: the second part of the book, which you know is
Speaker 3: my kind of pride and joy. It's the part that
Speaker 3: I really enjoy because I get to put Cain and
Speaker 3: his grandson into some pretty interesting situations. I have him
Speaker 3: being very very old, like impossibly old, so he's basically
Speaker 3: like this, this old wander that has seen and done
Speaker 3: more things than any other man on the face of
Speaker 3: the earth has. So is he a vampire in the book, No,
Speaker 3: but he does live a long time, so I kind
Speaker 3: of touch on that little pop culture reference where he's
Speaker 3: kind of referred to as the first vampire, and I
Speaker 3: think Nowa even has him as like the first vampire
Speaker 3: in his his second book, which is really kind of cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And one thing that I that I found interesting
Speaker 1: that I never knew when I was researching my book
Speaker 1: and was getting into Caine, was I wanted to try
Speaker 1: to see things from all angles. And I actually took
Speaker 1: like a deep dive into the Jewish mysticism and the
Speaker 1: Rabbinic traditions and things like that, and they have some
Speaker 1: pretty interesting thoughts on Cain. And I read from the
Speaker 1: medieval Rabbi Rashi and his breakdowns of the pentatuke and
Speaker 1: everything else that they believed that Cain his marking was
Speaker 1: that he turned into like a beast of the field. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've heard that wild man yep. And I was like, man,
Speaker 1: that's interesting right there. And then Rashie talks about you know,
Speaker 1: he asked the question of whatever this marking was, it
Speaker 1: put him in fear, and it said so, it wasn't
Speaker 1: like a newspaper went out to everybody in the world,
Speaker 1: you know, Cane kills brother, you know, wanted dead or alive,
Speaker 1: come to get this man, and he's all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, just in fear of his life. And Rashie
Speaker 1: said that it was his belief that he was in
Speaker 1: fear of the other animals. Not humanity as so much,
Speaker 1: and that he turned into this hairy man of the
Speaker 1: field and give him a horn for protection.
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't hear that part.
Speaker 3: I was familiar with him becoming like a beast, but
Speaker 3: I didn't know about the horn part. That's interesting. That
Speaker 3: is really interesting.
Speaker 1: And then when you follow the trail there in Genesis,
Speaker 1: how Lomet comes back and he says, if Cain's curse
Speaker 1: was seventy or set time seven, mine will be seventy
Speaker 1: times seven because I struck struck a man, and in
Speaker 1: my anger, you know, struck another a younger man or
Speaker 1: something like that. He said. Yep, and so Rashi in
Speaker 1: the rabbis of that time, their tradition was that Limett
Speaker 1: grew blind in his old age, and that his son,
Speaker 1: his youngest son, would lead him into the field and
Speaker 1: point his bow for him and help him hunt, and
Speaker 1: that he his son mistaked Caine for a beast of
Speaker 1: the field, and Omec kills Cain, and that's why he's
Speaker 1: so upset and ends up, in his frustration and anger,
Speaker 1: murders his young son too.
Speaker 2: Yep, I remember that, I remember reading that.
Speaker 1: Yep, that was that was wild man. And then talked
Speaker 1: about the genieologies because it says, you know, whoever harms
Speaker 1: Kane will be you know, cursed Time seven. He was
Speaker 1: even saying that it could have been a mistranslation. It
Speaker 1: wasn't saying whoever kills Kane will be cursed Time seven.
Speaker 1: It's that the one who will kill him is Time seven,
Speaker 1: like the seventh generation, and when you go down to Limec,
Speaker 1: he's the seventh generation from Adam.
Speaker 2: Gotcha, Yeah, that's really interesting.
Speaker 3: Like I knew the story of Kan getting killed by
Speaker 3: Lamec and him killing his son as like afterward, I
Speaker 3: remember that I did not know it when like and
Speaker 3: so depth that so much depth is like you know,
Speaker 3: because he's the seventh from Adam or seventh from Kin
Speaker 3: that because he killed him, he's cursed Time seventy seven.
Speaker 2: That's really interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, whether it's true or not, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: But it's it's interesting to look into it and just
Speaker 1: see what they thought, you know, regardless who it's true
Speaker 1: or not, they that was their oral tradition. That's what
Speaker 1: they believed, right.
Speaker 3: I love reading like some of the thoughts that the
Speaker 3: old rabbis had and whatnot, kind of off on a
Speaker 3: tangent a little bit, but kind of along the same
Speaker 3: lines there. I think it was either the Ramban or
Speaker 3: the ram bamb. Some one of those rabbis wrote somewhere
Speaker 3: in the Talmud about a creature called the adne haasada,
Speaker 3: which translates to basically man like creature of the field.
Speaker 3: And then later rabbis took this term and we're like, well,
Speaker 3: what in the world does this mean.
Speaker 2: It's taken from a.
Speaker 3: Passage in Job twenty five, I think it is, where
Speaker 3: normally in English it's translated the stones of the field,
Speaker 3: you'll make a covenant with the stones of the field.
Speaker 3: But that term is actually in the eyes of the rabbis,
Speaker 3: who was better translated as manlike creature of the field.
Speaker 2: So you've got like.
Speaker 3: Medieval rabbis kind of looking at this writing and being like, well,
Speaker 3: what does this mean? What's this referring to? And they
Speaker 3: actually kind of take it to they interpret it as
Speaker 3: like him referring to like apes, like a rang a tanes,
Speaker 3: you know, gorilla is that sort of thing. So I
Speaker 3: just it's it's really cool that the stuff that they
Speaker 3: kind of have in there, the little hidden nuggets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, that's cool. You actually got me written notes here.
Speaker 1: What was the name of that that rabbi.
Speaker 3: I think it was the Ramband. It was either the
Speaker 3: Ramban or the rambamb. It's like it's an acronym for
Speaker 3: his actual title.
Speaker 1: And and what was that Hebrew word for it? It's
Speaker 1: a man like creature of the field.
Speaker 3: Do you remember it's which is a d n e
Speaker 3: i hah h a which is s A d e h.
Speaker 1: All right, man, brih. You got me wanting to go
Speaker 1: down another rabbit trail here? Hey yeah, yeah, I'm definitely
Speaker 1: into the wild Man and.
Speaker 3: Uh oh yeah, there's a little bit of that in
Speaker 3: the book too.
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of the wild Man stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's excellent. So uh now, this book, it's already
Speaker 1: out correct.
Speaker 3: Yes, so it's out this Yep, it's it's out on Amazon.
Speaker 3: The first edition is like I said earlier, I'm probably
Speaker 3: going to have the second edition out the September, so
Speaker 3: everyone be on lookout for that because it's going to
Speaker 3: be really cool. And yeah, that's that's mainly where I
Speaker 3: have it as Amazon. It's they've got a great, you know,
Speaker 3: tool for publishing and whatnot.
Speaker 2: They make it so easy.
Speaker 3: So literally I just had to upload my manuscript, put
Speaker 3: some cover art together, and there you go.
Speaker 2: I have a book.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I might have to talk to you about
Speaker 1: mine because I got mine finished up and I have
Speaker 1: no clue on how to publish and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I was hoping I could just find somebody to take
Speaker 1: care of all that stuff for me. But it's a
Speaker 1: little more complex than.
Speaker 2: I I believe it. You talk about the lil than yours, right.
Speaker 1: Uh No, mine is just U. I called it the
Speaker 1: Epic of Esau.
Speaker 2: Oh that's right, yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 1: I go through the wild man traditions and try to
Speaker 1: make those like like I was telling you about the
Speaker 1: connections and stuff in the Bible and the Talmud and
Speaker 1: all that to the wild man, and how I think
Speaker 1: Esau sounds pretty squatchy.
Speaker 2: I agree. I think that there's something to that for sure.
Speaker 3: And think about it like this, who's the family that
Speaker 3: you saw Mary's into his descendants, Mary into the whole
Speaker 3: rights which were you can translate that word.
Speaker 2: As cave Dwell claims. Yep.
Speaker 3: And they're a giant clan exactly. And their king was
Speaker 3: king Sir. Seir is the word for Harry and Hebrew, so.
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, there's so many rabbit trails man, And and
Speaker 1: you go into the just the inner marriage part of it.
Speaker 1: So you have this hairy quote unquote man that was
Speaker 1: you know, just let the text say what it says.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: Genesis twenty five twenty five says he come out red
Speaker 1: and covered and air from head to toe like a
Speaker 1: Harry Cloak.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And then he intermarries and inner breeds with these giant clans.
Speaker 1: So if you have these giants breeding with this Harry
Speaker 1: Man of the field man, you got a very high
Speaker 1: chance for throwing some pretty strange pups.
Speaker 2: Oh, I agree. I agree.
Speaker 3: I touch on the whole sasquatch thing in my book too,
Speaker 3: Like I don't know if I mentioned this, but the
Speaker 3: setting is like back in the Ice Age times, so
Speaker 3: there's all kinds of like interesting you know, extinct fauna
Speaker 3: and whatnot that are around back then, like mammoths. I've
Speaker 3: got a saper tooth cat in there that that seems
Speaker 3: one of my favorites that I wrote. And then I've
Speaker 3: got a character in there who is very squatchy, and
Speaker 3: I'm more instead of going the Esau route, because you know,
Speaker 3: Esaw obviously comes after Caine and whatnot. I more went
Speaker 3: the route of the term satyr in scripture. If you
Speaker 3: read like the old the Old King James version, you
Speaker 3: see the word satar in different prophecies and whatnot. And
Speaker 3: I kind of interpret that as being like, well, maybe
Speaker 3: the stars were one of these races of wanderers that
Speaker 3: were outside the land of Eden that you know, Cain
Speaker 3: and his descendants when he you know, had descendants and
Speaker 3: children and whatnot, kind of interacted with.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very much so. And when you read, especially
Speaker 1: through the Old Testament, stuff that stands out to me
Speaker 1: is like when they go into the wilderness after the
Speaker 1: Exodus and they start getting the laws right, they're immediately
Speaker 1: attacked by the Amalekites yep, you know, and they're known
Speaker 1: as the blood liquors, yes, and then they're given all
Speaker 1: of these commandments, and then what are the commandments they're saying,
Speaker 1: do not drink the blood, they say that repeatedly, don't
Speaker 1: seek out necromancers, and don't seek out mediums, and just
Speaker 1: all these different commands. And I believe that's because the
Speaker 1: people around them, which were these people in the land
Speaker 1: of Sierra where these harry quote unquote men and you
Speaker 1: get stories of satyrs and even in the Old test
Speaker 1: that talks about the dancing goat demons.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yepah yeah, And then you get into Isaiah talks about,
Speaker 8: you know, cursing the land and that the goat demons
Speaker 8: will will dance in the lilth, you know, the screech
Speaker 8: owl will nest, and so it's like you get all
Speaker 8: this kind of supernatural language.
Speaker 1: And it's I think it's because obviously they were interacting
Speaker 1: with it. So there were some people in this wilderness,
Speaker 1: this desert land that were hairy looking creatures that look
Speaker 1: like satyrs or goat demons, that were necromancers, and that
Speaker 1: were drinking blood and doing all these things. And that's
Speaker 1: why God was commanding his people, you know, don't take
Speaker 1: part in what these people are doing. Have no part
Speaker 1: and their wickedness. You know, you sit yourself apart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh absolutely.
Speaker 3: And there's even a connection that you can make between
Speaker 3: one of the most well known Jewish festivals, Yam Kapor,
Speaker 3: where you have the two goats. You have the goat
Speaker 3: for the sacrifice, and then you have the goats sent
Speaker 3: to Azazel.
Speaker 2: Well who is Azazel?
Speaker 3: There are some etymological links you can make between the
Speaker 3: name Azazel and one of the chief gods of the
Speaker 3: pre Islamic, prehistoric Arab tribes that were roaming around the
Speaker 3: Arabian Peninsula, men of the wilderness, and they they this
Speaker 3: was like their main chief god that they that they worshiped,
Speaker 3: and he was represented by the morning Star on top
Speaker 3: of that. So there's there's connections between you know, the wilderness,
Speaker 3: there's connections between Azazel being associated with goats, and there's
Speaker 3: associations with the morning Star, which you can get Baphomet
Speaker 3: Lucifer in Isaiah fourteen. So you could you could write
Speaker 3: volumes of books about this sort of thing, because there's
Speaker 3: just so many really cool rabbit trails if you know
Speaker 3: where to look and you know how to find them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. And I had Enoch Puatris on the show,
Speaker 1: and which I mean, I love like how we just
Speaker 1: get to have these conversations and interact with each other,
Speaker 1: and you know, you've done through me some nuggets sets
Speaker 1: you know, got me excited, and I've done wrote them
Speaker 1: down and going to be looking into this stuff because
Speaker 1: everybody has a little different piece man, And the more
Speaker 1: people we talk to and listen to and yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes people gets it wrong. You know, sometimes people's opinions
Speaker 1: are a little more left of what we would call center.
Speaker 1: But you've got to be willing to sit down and
Speaker 1: have the conversations and separate the meat from the bones.
Speaker 1: And the more you do that, man, the better holistic
Speaker 1: picture you're going to have. But I had thought about,
Speaker 1: you know, the whole commandments of not drinking the blood
Speaker 1: and things like that, and I believe after reading Derek
Speaker 1: Gilbert's work, that one of the reasons or one of
Speaker 1: the ways the refice came back was kind of like
Speaker 1: the Viking berserkers. They would do these rituals and summons
Speaker 1: the spirits of their dead warrior ancestors, and they would
Speaker 1: inhabit them. And that was the berserkers, because they said
Speaker 1: they were like demon possessed, wild crazy men, because they
Speaker 1: let their bodies be vessels for their dead ancestor warrior spirits. So,
Speaker 1: you know, the Middle East, this was the mighty men
Speaker 1: of old, the Nephelin. But he talked about how he
Speaker 1: believed that was a part of it, but he brought
Speaker 1: in the whole idea of the drinking of the blood
Speaker 1: and sacrificing the children to bail and molac and you're
Speaker 1: taking these young children that their blood is just filled
Speaker 1: with HGH, you know, and if their teenage kids, you know,
Speaker 1: full of testosterone and just all these things. And by
Speaker 1: drinking it and assuming this stuff, It's like, that's maybe
Speaker 1: a way they grew to such extreme heights because they
Speaker 1: were consuming this large amounts of HG H and blood
Speaker 1: and things like that combined with these rituals. And that's
Speaker 1: a good explanation of how these things might have come
Speaker 1: back after the flood.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's actually a big piece of how I wrote
Speaker 3: my antagonists, my villains for the for the story, because
Speaker 3: I almost like portray them as like parasites, you know.
Speaker 3: They're they're like these spirit beings that kind of hover
Speaker 3: around a particular people group and they just they choose
Speaker 3: a host.
Speaker 2: But the way they have to choose a host is.
Speaker 3: They have to take a certain amount of some psychoactive like.
Speaker 2: What's the term ethnobotany.
Speaker 3: They have to they have to take some kind of
Speaker 3: mushroom or herb or something and the spirit, yes, exactly
Speaker 3: for them to for them to be able to adhere
Speaker 3: onto the body and take control. And that's how you know,
Speaker 3: these the term that I used Nehl in reference to
Speaker 3: the actual fallen spirit beings in my book, because I
Speaker 3: translated as fallen ones, so that the nephel in the novel.
Speaker 3: That's how they change skins over and over again. They
Speaker 3: keep perpetuating this practice of taking psychoactive plants and whatnot,
Speaker 3: and they just live for eons and eons because they
Speaker 3: can just change bodies over and over.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a I think a very biblically sound
Speaker 1: idea because once again, why I give commandments against things
Speaker 1: if people are not doing them? And it talks about,
Speaker 1: you know, not taking part in this. And then you
Speaker 1: get into the book Enoch, well, one of the first
Speaker 1: things they taught them was the cutting of roots and
Speaker 1: enchantments and this was a way too, yeah, a way
Speaker 1: to commune with these enslaved and trapped spirits.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you you know, and all that stuff. And
Speaker 1: that's without fail, all of them take these drugs to
Speaker 1: communicate with the spirit realm, right, And it's a really
Speaker 1: scary sting away from it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's a really scary thing too, because you listen
Speaker 3: to some podcasts where they talk about these psychoactive things
Speaker 3: as a positive thing. People come away like with a
Speaker 3: new perspective on life. They come away, you know, curative
Speaker 3: depression and anxiety, and I started thinking like, well, why
Speaker 3: if it's a bad thing, why are they coming away
Speaker 3: with positive experiences? I kind of came to the realization like,
Speaker 3: if you were a being that wanted to contact the
Speaker 3: physical world, if you wanted to interact with the physical
Speaker 3: world in any sort of way, have any kind of influence,
Speaker 3: would you want people running out of the room terrified
Speaker 3: of you after interacting with them, or would you want
Speaker 3: them to feel welcomed, held warm, comforted. Would you maybe
Speaker 3: want to give them the gift of hearing them of
Speaker 3: their depression? You know, I think that there are things
Speaker 3: that you know, the fallen spirit beings.
Speaker 2: The rebel the divine rebels have the ability to do.
Speaker 3: And I think I think that's what's going on there.
Speaker 3: They're trying to ramp up that whole positive thinking toward
Speaker 3: you know, Pharmakia, the whole positive thinking toward U transhumanism
Speaker 3: and whatnot, because they're they're gonna there's gonna come a
Speaker 3: switch where we're pushed away from this atheistic mindset that
Speaker 3: our culture has back to the pagan mindset that oh yeah,
Speaker 3: absolutely absolutely. It's it's growing and there's gonna come a
Speaker 3: point where it's like blatant in your face, and I
Speaker 3: think it kind of did in the Olympics up to
Speaker 3: it to an extent, you know, blatant in your face paganism.
Speaker 3: So they're gonna they're gonna make their presence known. Whether
Speaker 3: it's you know, before we're taken up or after, who knows,
Speaker 3: but they're they're definitely gonna set the stage and bring
Speaker 3: back all the stuff that they that they've been doing
Speaker 3: to humanity for generations and generations.
Speaker 1: And you go into the cult, you know, they talk
Speaker 1: about the the return of Saturn's rain, you know, the
Speaker 1: return of the Golden Age. That's what they want. They
Speaker 1: want us to go back to when the gods walked
Speaker 1: amongst us. And Vicky Joey talking to her, she's such
Speaker 1: a smart woman. But I having a conversation with her
Speaker 1: last week and we talked about some interesting subjects. But
Speaker 1: she had mentioned about people's positive experiences in the astral realm,
Speaker 1: and that's what she was saying pretty much the same
Speaker 1: thing that you were saying. She's like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: they're sweet talking. You're telling you everything you want to hear,
Speaker 1: because you are useful to them and they want to
Speaker 1: use you kind of like a parasite. And she said,
Speaker 1: then the people that do have the bad experiences, you know,
Speaker 1: they're frightened and run away, never do the stuff again,
Speaker 1: or she said, a lot of times you'll get It
Speaker 1: started off positive and they were sharing knowledge with them
Speaker 1: and teaching them things, and was so nice to them,
Speaker 1: and they just felt love and joy and all these
Speaker 1: you know, feel good things, and then it turned dark
Speaker 1: and she said, it's my opinion, she said that you
Speaker 1: were basically fired. She said, they started off warm and
Speaker 1: you know, tried to win you over because they thought
Speaker 1: you'd be useful to them. But after they spent some
Speaker 1: time with you, you know, whether you know, you're just
Speaker 1: too dumb or too you know, afraid to do whatever,
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be, you did not match the
Speaker 1: criteria that they thought that you were gonna or need
Speaker 1: that you were going to fulfill for them. So they
Speaker 1: fired you. And how do they fire you? They scare
Speaker 1: the hell out of you. That way, you don't come back.
Speaker 1: Was the problem. Yeah, that was the problem because at
Speaker 1: Genesis six they were condemned for coming down to us.
Speaker 1: She said, so they must have got together and figure
Speaker 1: it out. Well, Okay, we got in trouble because we
Speaker 1: come down to them, so now we're going to make
Speaker 1: a way for them to come up or down to us.
Speaker 1: So therefore we don't get in trouble like we did last.
Speaker 2: Time, right, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: And there's an element in there of like, you know,
Speaker 3: the creation being tested. You know who's going to follow
Speaker 3: Christ and who's going to follow you know, the dark side.
Speaker 3: You know who's going to follow after these fallen spirits.
Speaker 3: And there's there's an element of free will in there,
Speaker 3: and that's likely why God doesn't immediately step in and
Speaker 3: be like, nope, wiping you all out. I told you,
Speaker 3: don't do this again. You're done. No, it's they're they're
Speaker 3: allowing for human free will, which is a scary part.
Speaker 3: And the fact that a lot of people are choosing
Speaker 3: to fall into that that free will that's even scarier.
Speaker 3: There's a there's a podcast that I listened to called
Speaker 3: Lord of Spirits. It's it's an Orthodox podcast where they
Speaker 3: talk a lot about this Divine Council worldview stuff and whatnot.
Speaker 3: And they have a term, it's actually an Orthodox theological
Speaker 3: term called theosis, which is the way that Orthodox Christians
Speaker 3: believe salvation is achieved. You end up becoming more like Christ.
Speaker 3: And in that, in spending time with Him and reading
Speaker 3: his word, praying and in your Christian walk. Protestants we
Speaker 3: call it sanctification. You know, they just have a different
Speaker 3: term that's driven from the Greek. And you're becoming more
Speaker 3: like Christ. It's your process of theosis. Then they turn
Speaker 3: it around and say, well, there's a flip side to
Speaker 3: it called and this is a term that they use.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's an official theological term. They call
Speaker 3: it demonosis, where you become more like the demons, you
Speaker 3: become more like the fallen angels. And they particularly talked
Speaker 3: about use this term when talking about Kane, how him
Speaker 3: murdering his brother basically got him kicked out of Eden.
Speaker 3: He was kicked out of God's presence. And I touch
Speaker 3: on this in the book too, how the land of
Speaker 3: Eden what. I don't believe it was just a geographic locality.
Speaker 3: I think it was almost like a different realm, so
Speaker 3: to speak. Like you know how in Narnia, you know
Speaker 3: you walk through the wardrobe, and you know you do
Speaker 3: whatever in the wardrobe you see as land fight the
Speaker 3: White Witch. Then you walk back through the wardrobe and
Speaker 3: like two seconds of past. That's kind of how I
Speaker 3: take it. That's kind of how I take it in
Speaker 3: the book Eden to Be Eden is like this place
Speaker 3: where time passes differently because you're in God's presence and
Speaker 3: God is light, and you know, time passes differently for God.
Speaker 3: So if you're bathed in a land where that's bathed
Speaker 3: in God's presence, time passes slower. But then he's kicked
Speaker 3: out of the land of Eden and he's thrown to
Speaker 3: the wolves, so to speak.
Speaker 2: He has to live in this.
Speaker 3: World of wandering where you've got demon spawned human races
Speaker 3: and terrible creatures that want to rip them to reds
Speaker 3: wandering around, and that's that's what they want for all
Speaker 3: of us. They they want to they want to make
Speaker 3: it look like we're stepping into the land of eaten,
Speaker 3: where everything's great, everything's honkey dory, everything's lovely. But in reality,
Speaker 3: it's it's that world of wandering where they really want
Speaker 3: to just use shreds, threads. H m hm hmm.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely amazing, especially when you look into an
Speaker 1: infinite god. You know, it talks about you know, the
Speaker 1: heavenly realm, and when you get into Revelation, you get
Speaker 1: all this astronomical stuff. You know. It talks about the
Speaker 1: throne of God, you know, sitting on the firmament, and
Speaker 1: that earth is his footstool, and the robe you know,
Speaker 1: descends into the temple. And then you got the four
Speaker 1: living creatures on each side of him. Well that's the
Speaker 1: Babylonian zodiac, those faces north, south, east, west, and the
Speaker 1: twenty four elders around, you know, symbolizing I think, the
Speaker 1: twenty four hours of a day. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: right at the beginning, God is showing John, like taking
Speaker 1: him up and looking down, and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: there's about to be a lot of crazy stuff go down,
Speaker 1: but just know I'm showing you right here, I am
Speaker 1: at the center of all time, space and matter, and
Speaker 1: I'm the one in control.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of interesting, you know, kind of circling
Speaker 3: back to the concept of you know, all times, base
Speaker 3: and matter and whatnot. The whole concept of the days
Speaker 3: of creation being actual, like literal twenty four hour days
Speaker 3: as we experienced twenty four hours doesn't make a ton
Speaker 3: of sense if you really.
Speaker 2: Think about it.
Speaker 3: And I know that I'm kind of going off in
Speaker 3: a bit of a tagent here, but this was kind
Speaker 3: of instrumental in, you know, me formulating the worldview that
Speaker 3: I put out in the novel. You only have God
Speaker 3: as an intelligent observer for like the first three days,
Speaker 3: So what is twenty four hours to God? I think
Speaker 3: that's kind of a moot point because God is outside
Speaker 3: of time as we experience it, so we can't even
Speaker 3: know what a day would be like for him. So
Speaker 3: if God is, you know, telling Moses, this is how
Speaker 3: I want you to write the account of creation, and
Speaker 3: he's saying that he's using the word day, I think
Speaker 3: it's more conceptually based because they were, like I said,
Speaker 3: there were no I mean, there could have been potentially
Speaker 3: the angels. Angels were created on day one, but even
Speaker 3: then their beings that are outside of our level of consciousness.
Speaker 3: They are beings that don't necessarily experience time the way
Speaker 3: that we experience.
Speaker 2: It either, So.
Speaker 3: At least for the first three days, you don't really
Speaker 3: have time as experienced by rational mortal creatures like yanity
Speaker 3: exactly by humanity. And even then after after day three
Speaker 3: into day's four, which I believe is when he created
Speaker 3: the angels was day four, because you know the astral language,
Speaker 3: that's when he creates the sun, moon, and stars, and
Speaker 3: the angels and divine beings are associated with the stars
Speaker 3: and whatnot. And then in the day's five and six.
Speaker 3: For the first half of day six, you don't even
Speaker 3: have humans to experience time either. So you've got literally
Speaker 3: most of the creation week without any human being to
Speaker 3: observe how long these days actually are?
Speaker 1: What would that be point? What's your take on the
Speaker 1: job where it talks about, you know, when he's questioning
Speaker 1: God and finally God responds and he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: where were you when I've done this? Where were you
Speaker 1: when I done that? And yeah, because the way when
Speaker 1: I read that and it was explained to me, it
Speaker 1: was like it was saying that, you know, the morning stars,
Speaker 1: you know, the sons of God were the angelic race
Speaker 1: was there and witness creation. And when I first heard
Speaker 1: that and read that, I was like, that fits better
Speaker 1: to the plural language. At the beginning, you know that
Speaker 1: he said let us make man in our image that
Speaker 1: he's talking to, according to Job, the heavenly host that
Speaker 1: was there witnessing the entire creation, right.
Speaker 3: So the way that I kind of take that is
Speaker 3: I think I think, uh, the author of Job particularly
Speaker 3: uses the word morning star on purpose to associate with
Speaker 3: day four of creation. So you have that group of
Speaker 3: angels whatever whatever they constitute, the morning stars being created
Speaker 3: on day four of creation, and then you move into
Speaker 3: the sons of God shouted for joy. What if that
Speaker 3: is actually talking about the human beings created on day six,
Speaker 3: the halfway through day six, and then like we talked
Speaker 3: about earlier Adams created on an eighth day later on.
Speaker 3: I can't remember for the life of me the name
Speaker 3: of the author. If I think of it, I'll email
Speaker 3: it to you or something. But there was an author
Speaker 3: back in the eighteen hundreds that wrote a book basically
Speaker 3: talking about how because there were fossil remains and artifacts
Speaker 3: coming out in scientific literature that showed that there were
Speaker 3: people around before the time allotted for Adam, like millions
Speaker 3: of years before Adam.
Speaker 1: And the Sovians in Russia exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, and the Neanderthals Homo erectus, all those different
Speaker 3: human groups. And as this was starting to come out
Speaker 3: and be more prevalent, this lady she actually wrote a
Speaker 3: book talking about how, well, maybe these peoples, these ancient
Speaker 3: prehistoric peoples were actually the sons of God, angelic race
Speaker 3: that was created on Day six, and maybe the angels
Speaker 3: weren't so different from us at the outset. And then
Speaker 3: she goes into how during the rebellion of Lucifer. I
Speaker 3: think she takes kind of like almost like a gap
Speaker 3: theory stance on it, where there was a rebellion before
Speaker 3: Adam and Eve were created, and the ones that sided
Speaker 3: with God, sided with Michael and his angels. They were
Speaker 3: elevated to angelic status, and then the angels that rebelled
Speaker 3: they were cast down to the earth and they died,
Speaker 3: and that's why you have the remains of these fossil
Speaker 3: hominids and whatnot. I don't take exactly that view per se,
Speaker 3: but it was definitely a good framework for me formulating
Speaker 3: how how I look at it, and I think it's.
Speaker 1: Worth entertaining, you know, because there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: that get been out of shape. You know, you bring
Speaker 1: that up, Oh, it's heresy. You know, it's not a
Speaker 1: salvation issue, and you have to assume that we don't
Speaker 1: have the entire story. This is the creator of the
Speaker 1: universe and we are nothings. We are nobody's. He doesn't
Speaker 1: have to tell us anything, but what he told us
Speaker 1: I think is important to us and pertains to us.
Speaker 1: And I've even told people you know, and I don't
Speaker 1: know where you stand on this, so I hope I
Speaker 1: don't offend you. But a lot of the flat earth community,
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't believe this, then you you
Speaker 1: don't believe the Bible, you know, and the Bible teaches this.
Speaker 2: It's my blood.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's a non salvation issue, and no
Speaker 1: shape of the earth doesn't save you. And at the
Speaker 1: same time, I try to tell these people my point
Speaker 1: of view and how I look at it, but a
Speaker 1: lot of them can't have a discussion with someone that
Speaker 1: thinks differently with them that without getting upset. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, think of this. You know, when
Speaker 1: you were a kid, you asked your parents about the
Speaker 1: birds and the bees, right, where do babies come from?
Speaker 1: And you get that birds and bees talk? Yeah, we
Speaker 1: know that. You know that's not true. Does that make
Speaker 1: our parents liars and deceivers? No? They explain something that
Speaker 1: we asked and wanted to know in a very simplistic
Speaker 1: way that we could understand, that we could wrap our
Speaker 1: small little brains around it. And I think that God
Speaker 1: is no different, not at all. So he meets you
Speaker 1: where you're at. So if the people at that time
Speaker 1: believe that they were on a flat stationary plane, God
Speaker 1: to him is like, that don't matter. What matters is
Speaker 1: that you find my son and come back to me,
Speaker 1: Come back home home. This is a map to get
Speaker 1: back home. Shape of the earth does not freaking matter.
Speaker 1: So when he's explained in that, it's like, Okay, you
Speaker 1: believe it's a flat stationary plane. Okay, yeah, I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you and explain it in ways you already think, right,
Speaker 1: because ultimately it's not important.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And that that to me, I think is why
Speaker 3: he uses the term of a day too, because they
Speaker 3: had a six or seven day work week. That's how
Speaker 3: he That's how he communicated them the creation week, because
Speaker 3: it was terms that they understood. Now, it doesn't mean
Speaker 3: that it's literally a day. It could be literally a day,
Speaker 3: who knows. I mean, it's probably not based on you know,
Speaker 3: what we look at from science. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: like that's how he communicated to them. It's really interesting
Speaker 3: because I was actually doing a bit of Bible study
Speaker 3: just this morning that kind of touches on this. In Ephesians,
Speaker 3: chapter two, verse fifteen and sixteen, there's a word, there's
Speaker 3: a Greek word that Paul uses there to describe the
Speaker 3: conflict between Jews and Gentiles, and that word is ecros.
Speaker 3: It means enmity. And I actually look this up. It's
Speaker 3: the same word that is used in the septuagen text
Speaker 3: of the Old Testament for the enmity between the serpent
Speaker 3: and the woman.
Speaker 2: So it's like, hold on a second, why did Paul
Speaker 2: do that? Did he do that on purpose?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Word association, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think he did.
Speaker 3: I think he absolutely wanted his readers to think about
Speaker 3: the enmity between the seed of the woman and the
Speaker 3: seed of the serpent, because it in earlier in the
Speaker 3: chapter he hints at like, you know, gentiles being called
Speaker 3: the sons of disobedience, or the children of wrath, or
Speaker 3: the prince of the power of the air being at
Speaker 3: work in them, you know, because they weren't, you know,
Speaker 3: the children of the Promise, they weren't Israel. So it's
Speaker 3: almost like he's trying to dispel a myth or or
Speaker 3: say like, even if you know these the gentiles are,
Speaker 3: you know, the so called seed of the serpent, it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter because Jesus Christ ends that enmity between you
Speaker 3: and gentile. He ends that separation with his work on
Speaker 3: the cross.
Speaker 2: You know, he completely does away with it with his sacrifice.
Speaker 3: Son, any thought that a Jew, a Christian Jew, would
Speaker 3: have had at that time that, oh, well, I'm better
Speaker 3: because I'm a Jew and I have you know, certain ancestry,
Speaker 3: I have a certain pedigree.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: Basically, what Paul is saying is like, even if it's
Speaker 3: true that the gentiles are descended from the devil, the
Speaker 3: salvation is open to them as well.
Speaker 1: And he constantly meets them where they are in every circumstance.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the creator of the universe was
Speaker 1: okay with his people having slaves? Noah in the Laws,
Speaker 1: he was like, you know, you're not where I want
Speaker 1: you right now, but I'm going to take you as
Speaker 1: you are. So if you're going to have slaves, you're
Speaker 1: going to treat them well. You're going to treat them
Speaker 1: with fact. And even the term slave is not what
Speaker 1: we think of today. Back then it was trading and bartering.
Speaker 1: If you needed a service or a work done you
Speaker 1: didn't have the money to pay for it, then you
Speaker 1: just tell them I'm indebted to you and those you
Speaker 1: work it off. I work for you for the next
Speaker 1: few years to pay off my debt. So and even
Speaker 1: the myths and legends, you know, you had the new
Speaker 1: mil leish about creation of the world. Marduk slays this
Speaker 1: dragon tiamat the to Home. When he writes Genesis, he
Speaker 1: mentions the spirit of the water hovered over the to Home.
Speaker 1: Another word association was that a lot of people, especially atheists,
Speaker 1: will be like, oh, well see this is proof the
Speaker 1: new Malicius is older. This is a carbon copy. They
Speaker 1: ripped it off. No, God was meeting the people where
Speaker 1: they walked, where they were, using stories and terms that
Speaker 1: were familiar to them. If Paul did it at Mars Hill,
Speaker 1: oh yes, you Greeks are a intelligent people. And yes
Speaker 1: you're right, there's many gods. But I see this statue
Speaker 1: over here to the unnamed God. I know who that
Speaker 1: unnamed god is. He's the creator of all. I love
Speaker 1: that time and time again, God meets people where they
Speaker 1: are and uses terminology and stories and parables. So the
Speaker 1: people can understand what he's trying to lay down. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just you see it over and over and over again. Well, man, Briar,
Speaker 1: thank you so much man for sitting down and talking
Speaker 1: with me. And you've enlightened me on some few things
Speaker 1: and got me wanting to dig a little deeper on
Speaker 1: a few things. Dude, So I definitely appreciate that. Uh yeah, man,
Speaker 1: then we go, Oh dude, I don't care to have
Speaker 1: you back and do this again.
Speaker 2: I'd love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So just let everybody know that you've got any
Speaker 1: websites or anything like that. Anything you want to plug
Speaker 1: right now, here's your chance.
Speaker 2: Yep. Absolutely.
Speaker 3: So you can look for my book on Amazon of course,
Speaker 3: Cain Untold Book two by Briar Cater. You can also
Speaker 3: follow me on Instagram. I'm at BK hold on, I
Speaker 3: got to think about it. It's at BK Underscore Untold
Speaker 3: Stories on on Instagram, and then if that's not what
Speaker 3: it is, you can look me up on Facebook two
Speaker 3: by my name, and I've got a link to my
Speaker 3: Instagram on my Facebook page as well. I've got Twitter.
Speaker 3: I don't really use it that much. I kind of
Speaker 3: just scroll through it to look at the news. But
Speaker 3: I do have a few things up there, a couple
Speaker 3: of posts and reels and whatnot that, you know, talk
Speaker 3: about the book a little bit more in depth. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I'd love to connect with anybody that's interested.
Speaker 1: Well, awesome man, and once again, thank you and guys.
Speaker 1: As you can see just from this conversation, he's a
Speaker 1: he's a well read guy. He's got some some good
Speaker 1: ideas and some good questions and that's what's more important
Speaker 1: to anything, you know, answers. Answers are important, but good
Speaker 1: questions are even more important because that lead to the journey.
Speaker 1: And as I always say in The show Man, the
Speaker 1: difference between the known and the unknown is the journey. So, guys,
Speaker 1: thank you tuning in. Hope you enjoyed it, and until
Speaker 1: next time, guys, Torch is high.