Speaker 1: Today's episode of the trip Cast is sponsored by the
Speaker 1: Coalition of Education Funding and Raise your Hand Texas. Hello
Speaker 1: and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for February eighteenth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I am Matthew Watkins, editor in chief
Speaker 1: of the Texas Tribune, and as usual, we are joined
Speaker 1: by politics reporter James Bergon.
Speaker 2: Welcome back, Matthew, Thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to be back. And also you know her
Speaker 1: as the stephen A. Smith of the Texas Tribune. Eleanor Cleveanov.
Speaker 3: Hello, My sports knowledge is bested only by my politics knowledge.
Speaker 1: I go away for two weeks and it's just nothing
Speaker 1: but hot sports takes the entire time.
Speaker 2: I can't believe it.
Speaker 3: This is as shocking to me as it is to
Speaker 3: everyone else.
Speaker 1: And our special guest this week is our K through
Speaker 1: twelve education reporter Jadan Edison. Hey, Jaden, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Glad to be here, Glad to have you here. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about what happened this week. Jaden is here.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the hot ticket item of
Speaker 1: the legislative session, school choice school vouchers, whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call it. But first let's just look you know.
Speaker 1: I think catching up on something we've been looking forward
Speaker 1: to for a few weeks was the announcement of House
Speaker 1: committee assignments in the State House. Dustin Burrow's doing this
Speaker 1: for the first time. People watching that to get a
Speaker 1: little bit of a sense of what kind of leader
Speaker 1: he would be. James, you covered that story. What did
Speaker 1: you see?
Speaker 2: I did well?
Speaker 4: He followed through on the new rules to not appoint
Speaker 4: any new Democratic chairs. It's all Republican chairs, and that
Speaker 4: of course was a big topic of conversation in the
Speaker 4: primaries and in the speakers race. He also left in
Speaker 4: place a lot of Feelin's team. A lot of senior
Speaker 4: lawmakers are either keeping their previous chairmanships like Greg bond
Speaker 4: And on Appropriations, Morgan Meyer on Ways and Means, or
Speaker 4: they got moved around to other very important committees like
Speaker 4: Todd Hunters back on Calendars. Ken King moved up to
Speaker 4: State Affairs. That's a big promotion for him, and also
Speaker 4: got some good new blood in there. Lacey Hull, I
Speaker 4: think is worth noting she's the third term lawmaker from Houston,
Speaker 4: really went to bat for Burrows and gave a fiery
Speaker 4: nominating speech for him, and stuck with him even when
Speaker 4: she was being targeted. So she's heading a committee now.
Speaker 4: Cole Hefner also heading a committee for the first time,
Speaker 4: like a standing committee for the first time. So, you know,
Speaker 4: it was interesting to see. I was interested to see
Speaker 4: how he would manage this. There's always the potential for
Speaker 4: the speaker to go after people who did not support
Speaker 4: him and throw sharp elbows. He didn't do that so much.
Speaker 4: He kind of gave his opponents, you know, subcommittee chairmanships.
Speaker 4: He gave John Smithy a chairmanship. He was in the
Speaker 4: running for the gavel as well. So from my read,
Speaker 4: he's sort of kept everyone happy. I didn't see anybody
Speaker 4: super upset about the committee appointments, and so he's off
Speaker 4: to a decent start. He's got everybody calm down, and
Speaker 4: now that we've got committee appointments, we can start moving
Speaker 4: bills through the legislative process.
Speaker 1: On the House side, it seems like the early reports
Speaker 1: on Burrows seems to be and maybe this is because
Speaker 1: this is possible because you know, we're not moving legislation yet,
Speaker 1: we're not having to make the toughest choices. But it
Speaker 1: seems to be an idea of you know, people kind
Speaker 1: of were watching him with knives out, ready to go
Speaker 1: after him, ready to attack, and he has been trying
Speaker 1: to sort of mend those fences, whether it's with the governor,
Speaker 1: the lieutenant governor, or even members of the House, people
Speaker 1: who voted against him.
Speaker 2: Would you agree with that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think also, I mean the reality
Speaker 4: is that he's a very conservative guy. No matter how
Speaker 4: his opponents try to paint him during the speaker race,
Speaker 4: he's a pretty super conservative guy. He's much more conservative
Speaker 4: than a Speaker Feeling. Speaker Feeling has admitted that he
Speaker 4: told Evan Smith that I'd a talk at the LBJ school,
Speaker 4: so he was he was going to be a conservative guy.
Speaker 4: And I think he's going to pass conservative legislation. And
Speaker 4: you know, he's doing the right things. He's starting right
Speaker 4: on time at ten am every day, or whenever they
Speaker 4: say they're going to gabble in, he gabbles in.
Speaker 2: He's making you happy for that.
Speaker 4: He's trying to he's trying to make sure that like
Speaker 4: things are running on time so that he avoids that criticism.
Speaker 2: And you know, he's a savvy operator.
Speaker 4: We wrote a couple of stories about him and his
Speaker 4: relationship with Dan Patrick. His relationship with Governor Abbott. He's
Speaker 4: a conservative guy, he's a savvy operator. He's trying to
Speaker 4: keep everybody happy. But you know, I think you talked
Speaker 4: about people having their knives out. He's got his own knives.
Speaker 4: He is, uh, he's he's a tough player in the legislature.
Speaker 4: So I think he's ready for all this stuff.
Speaker 3: I mean, we've talked about this before, right but like
Speaker 3: in these fights within the Republican Party in Texas, we
Speaker 3: are again talking about like pretty you know, conservative against conservative.
Speaker 3: So the gap between you know, Burrows and some of
Speaker 3: his critics on the right is not massive ideologically, so
Speaker 3: he's got, you know, a chance. But like you said,
Speaker 3: nothing's moving yet. So right now, it's easy to start
Speaker 3: at ten am and have everybody be friends.
Speaker 4: And the pressure will start now depending on how quickly
Speaker 4: the Voucher's bill moves and then some of the other
Speaker 4: Senate priorities, because Lieutenant Governor Patrick's already saying we're not
Speaker 4: leaving without these these bills to change how bail works
Speaker 4: here in the state. We're going to go to special sessions.
Speaker 4: So unless those things start moving through the process, I
Speaker 4: think he's going to start seeing some pressure here.
Speaker 2: And rightfully. So, I mean they've got they've got to
Speaker 2: get going right right.
Speaker 1: Well, one thing that they could get going on pretty
Speaker 1: quickly here is a piece of legislation to use state
Speaker 1: tax dollars to help parents pay for their private school
Speaker 1: or homeschooling expenses. This has been kind of amazingly the
Speaker 1: dominant political issue in Texas, particularly around the Capitol for
Speaker 1: more than two years now. There's the individual kind of
Speaker 1: fight over this, which Abbott has sort of staked his
Speaker 1: claim on and has made his top legislative issue at least.
Speaker 1: He spends a lot of energy on the border as well,
Speaker 1: but has been able to kind of take action on
Speaker 1: that independent of the legislature. And this has been such
Speaker 1: an issue that it has really in these past two
Speaker 1: years not just been a issue of substance in politics
Speaker 1: in terms of policy, but also really serve to reshape
Speaker 1: the Texas legislature in a lot of different ways that
Speaker 1: we can really go into. Jaden is here to talk
Speaker 1: about that with us, and I want to start right
Speaker 1: by saying where we stand. So the Senate has passed
Speaker 1: SB two already. This is what we are calling the
Speaker 1: school Voucher's Bill. It is now time for the House
Speaker 1: to take it up. Dustin Burrough aforementioned Dustin Burrows appeared
Speaker 1: on stage with Greg Abbott over the Long weekend over
Speaker 1: the holiday weekend, essentially saying, you know, we're going to
Speaker 1: introduce a measure in the House and we're going to
Speaker 1: move on that and it will pass as well. So
Speaker 1: we're looking at a situation we can kind of get
Speaker 1: into whether we all believe that to be true or not.
Speaker 1: There are some doubters at least still in that realm.
Speaker 1: But Jaden, I want to just start by having you
Speaker 1: sort of explain to us what this bill would actually do.
Speaker 1: Let's start with SB two, that's the one that has
Speaker 1: passed the Senate. Tell us what this program is, what
Speaker 1: it would mean for the state.
Speaker 5: Right, Well, it only took I did the math last week.
Speaker 5: It took the Senate twenty two days from the start
Speaker 5: of the session to pass the bill. So that speaks
Speaker 5: to someone of the urgency that they've tried to move with.
Speaker 5: But particularly this bill is really interesting, right. I think
Speaker 5: the premise of it is, you know, allowing the use
Speaker 5: of a tend to up to right now, the basis
Speaker 5: to thousand dollars per student per year. For a family
Speaker 5: to be able to, you know, obviously use taxpayer dollars
Speaker 5: to fund their children's private school tuition through you know,
Speaker 5: what we all know is education savings accounts, right other
Speaker 5: you know, people in education policies fas think of that
Speaker 5: is like it's basically like a voucher plus system, right
Speaker 5: where you know, there are particulars about you know how
Speaker 5: you know families you know receive the money, but for
Speaker 5: all intents and purposes, you know, they're they're the same, right.
Speaker 5: And so that's the base. And then that has additional
Speaker 5: allocations for for students with disabilities and also sets aside
Speaker 5: roughly about two thousand dollars per year per student for
Speaker 5: homeschooling families, right. And so that's to a piece a
Speaker 5: lot of the homeschooling you know, groups who in recent
Speaker 5: years have come out and kind of wanted to be
Speaker 5: included in these programs.
Speaker 2: So that's the base of it.
Speaker 5: Where I found where I found it really interesting, and
Speaker 5: we're kind of a lot of my attention is kind
Speaker 5: of right now is you know, there are certain provisions
Speaker 5: in the bill that anticipates perhaps you know, a scenario
Speaker 5: where if demandate exceeds funding, then now we have to
Speaker 5: figure out kind of who to prioritize, right, And the
Speaker 5: way the bill is currently structured is they would prioritize
Speaker 5: the overwhelming majority of those spots for students from two groups, right,
Speaker 5: students with disabilities and then students who come from households,
Speaker 5: you know, who live at or below five hundred percent
Speaker 5: of the federal poverty line.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: Where that gets really interesting is that federal poverty that
Speaker 5: that using that definition, which they define as a low
Speaker 5: income household would mean families up to around roughly one
Speaker 5: hundred and sixty thousand dollars a year, depending on if
Speaker 5: you use the twenty four guidelines or the twenty five guidelines, right,
Speaker 5: And so that's really interesting, and this created this kind
Speaker 5: of tension in the you know, I would say more
Speaker 5: so obviously from the Democrats. This has been a huge
Speaker 5: talking point on the floor and then the public hearing
Speaker 5: at the committee level of if this is a program
Speaker 5: that's going to priory, you know, prioritize students from low
Speaker 5: income families and students with disabilities, and you're creating a
Speaker 5: prioritization system where students on the wealth you're in of
Speaker 5: a spectrum, you know, are basically and you know, treated
Speaker 5: the same as a family who is on free or
Speaker 5: reduced lunch, for example, which is significantly you know, uh lower,
Speaker 5: that's that's about one hundred and thirty to one hundred
Speaker 5: and eighty five percent of federal poverty, right, so significantly
Speaker 5: lower for a household of for you know, then how
Speaker 5: are we how is it that we're pushing this in
Speaker 5: the name of kind of low income families and students
Speaker 5: with disability. So that's been the real tension. But I
Speaker 5: will say that generalize general that generalizes kind of what
Speaker 5: the bill is. And then obviously, you know, there's conversations
Speaker 5: about accountability. You know, it does require, for example, that
Speaker 5: participating in private schools have to take what's known as
Speaker 5: a nationally norm reference test, so that's basically the SAT
Speaker 5: or the ACT, right, but no requirement they take the STAR.
Speaker 5: And so that's also been kind of a point of contention,
Speaker 5: as you know, public schools are saying we wanted even
Speaker 5: playing field. You're going to you know, implement this program,
Speaker 5: and so those are some of the I can pause here,
Speaker 5: but that's kind of generally speaking, a lot of the
Speaker 5: things that folks are talking about right now.
Speaker 1: I want to get into some of the details of
Speaker 1: that some of the criticisms of this, but let so
Speaker 1: it's first just sort of take a step back, James
Speaker 1: and tell me make the case for me as it
Speaker 1: has been made by proponents, you know, Avid in particular
Speaker 1: of why the state needs this.
Speaker 4: Well, I think the main argument, and Jayden you can
Speaker 4: jump in, but I think they are saying that they
Speaker 4: are upset with public schools, particularly public schools that are
Speaker 4: in low income areas, that have not been as successful
Speaker 4: as they could be for many, many years, and they're
Speaker 4: saying those kids should be able to have options to
Speaker 4: go to other schools, including private schools, and that really
Speaker 4: any parent should be able to take their kid out
Speaker 4: of their school that they're zoned to or that they
Speaker 4: go to that's paid by public dollars and take that
Speaker 4: money that they pay into the state and spend it
Speaker 4: on the school of their choice.
Speaker 2: That I think is the argument.
Speaker 4: Of course, private school a lot more expensive than the
Speaker 4: ten dollars ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: Voucher that they are going to get, but that that
Speaker 2: is a proposal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it was interesting I was watching last night.
Speaker 5: Governor Abbot was in San Antonio, on the stage at
Speaker 5: a Christian private school out there out that way. He
Speaker 5: shared the stage with Dustin Borough Speaker Boroughs and also
Speaker 5: public education share Brad Buckley, and so it was really
Speaker 5: those were also interested to tune in to see because
Speaker 5: it was the first time kind of I've been able
Speaker 5: to see that dynamic on the same I was wondering
Speaker 5: if they threw out any nuggets. You know, they're pretty
Speaker 5: upfront sometimes in those kind of events where they talk
Speaker 5: about things that are kind of forthcoming. But one of
Speaker 5: the main takeaways that that that was really interesting to
Speaker 5: me is you know, uh, you know, Governor Abbot talked
Speaker 5: a little bit about kind of you know, frustration with
Speaker 5: you know, and what a lot of conservatives have deemed
Speaker 5: kind of quote unquote you know left wing and doctrine nation,
Speaker 5: you know, of schools. You know, he cited you know,
Speaker 5: you know recent you know news that came out about uh,
Speaker 5: you know, a situation at in bell Or High School
Speaker 5: where in Houston where basically you know, there was you know,
Speaker 5: teachers who were you know, basically abiding by a student's
Speaker 5: request to you know use different you know pronouns or
Speaker 5: something along those lines and whatnot. And he cited that
Speaker 5: is an example of kind of the problems that he
Speaker 5: sees within public schools that he sees kind of this
Speaker 5: voucher program as a solution to.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: So I said to say, is yeah, right, we've heard
Speaker 5: a lot about kind of academic outcomes and we know,
Speaker 5: naturally right, like public schools, I mean schools are people
Speaker 5: are struggling to rebound from you know, the brunt of
Speaker 5: the COVID nineteen pandemic. But making there's there's no secret
Speaker 5: about it that this this also has to do with
Speaker 5: kind of overall frustration with the direction you know, you know,
Speaker 5: this feeling and I think a lot you know, after
Speaker 5: George Floyd's murder, you saw a lot of promises from
Speaker 5: these public institutions that came out, including public schools, We're
Speaker 5: going to do better. Right, we need to do better
Speaker 5: in areas of diversity, equity and inclusion.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: And in my view, right this movement in some ways right,
Speaker 5: And I think the governor's frame of this way is
Speaker 5: kind of pushed back to that's gone too far, right,
Speaker 5: And so you know, this is a solution that he sees,
Speaker 5: you know, to being able to push back and to
Speaker 5: you know, offer and he's at a Christian school, you know,
Speaker 5: So this is all happened at the same time where
Speaker 5: we're seeing state officials push for more you know, you know,
Speaker 5: religious components, Christianity in particular in public schools. But also
Speaker 5: he's making a lot of these kind of talking points,
Speaker 5: you know, in the background of schools that have a
Speaker 5: particular Christian focus. So a lot of couple interesting dynamics.
Speaker 5: That's that's also, I.
Speaker 4: Mean, that is a political argument that sort of is uh,
Speaker 4: it's it's a very smart political argument by proponents to
Speaker 4: make d EI the bad guy, the boogeyman. But I
Speaker 4: mean the other thing is that some private institutions that
Speaker 4: would benefit from this also have DEI programs and they
Speaker 4: have DEI coordinators, right. But this is I just want
Speaker 4: to be clear about this. This is like more of
Speaker 4: a political talking point rather than what the original intense
Speaker 4: I guess quote unquote was, which was to have like
Speaker 4: better academic outcomes for kids. There there's now a conversation
Speaker 4: about de EI, the DEI boogeyman and indoctrinating kids as
Speaker 4: opposed to like what the actual academic outcomes are and
Speaker 4: what would improve academic outcomes for kids.
Speaker 2: It's a smart I mean it's a smart political point.
Speaker 3: I mean this has been like a long like it's
Speaker 3: Bouchers and getting public funding into private schools has been
Speaker 3: like a longstanding conservative issue that has taken different forms
Speaker 3: throughout like going back to you know when we started
Speaker 3: sort of seeing schools get integrated after Brown view board
Speaker 3: of education, Like this has taken different forms, that has
Speaker 3: had different political underpinnings, you know, anti DEI last session,
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the conversation and still now
Speaker 3: but was around you know, sort of the boogeyman of
Speaker 3: or the sort of talking point of parents' rights and
Speaker 3: parents have, you know, the right to sort of direct
Speaker 3: their children's education and these other things that we see,
Speaker 3: you know, political catchphrases like you said, smart political advertising
Speaker 3: of an issue that has taken different forms, but it's
Speaker 3: been a priority nonetheless.
Speaker 4: But if a teacher at a public school is a
Speaker 4: transgender person and they're teaching your kid math, and your
Speaker 4: kid learns math one way or the other, like it really,
Speaker 4: I mean it doesn't matter, right if we're just talking
Speaker 4: about academic outcomes. But what they don't like is the
Speaker 4: social aspect of this, the DEI part of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the pandemic may have really
Speaker 1: changed this conversation, right, because, as you point out, this
Speaker 1: has been something people have been advocating for a long time.
Speaker 1: I mean, the founding of the Texas Public Policy Foundation,
Speaker 1: the major kind of think tank in this state, dates
Speaker 1: back to the eighties and this was really the main
Speaker 1: issue of the person who founded it. And you know,
Speaker 1: I've been here long enough here covering the capital, paying
Speaker 1: attention to the capital to be able to remember those
Speaker 1: sort of every two years, those rallies on the capital steps,
Speaker 1: people wearing yellow scarves calling for school choice, and they
Speaker 1: would pass the same it and wouldn't really go anywhere.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the pandemic and the murder
Speaker 1: of George Floyd, which in many ways, you know the
Speaker 1: social movement that arose after that. Many ways those two
Speaker 1: things are connected. I think put a lot of fear
Speaker 1: in a lot of parents' minds, particularly conservative minds, a
Speaker 1: feeling of sort of lack of control, right, whether it's
Speaker 1: I can't send my kid or I don't like my
Speaker 1: kid wearing a mask at school, and like all these
Speaker 1: rules that were put in place, and then yes, all
Speaker 1: this fear about like is are the is what it
Speaker 1: being taught taught at school is sort of getting ahead
Speaker 1: or you know, going too far from what I'm comfortable with.
Speaker 1: And I think that message of you can have some
Speaker 1: more control, Like there was a lot of even just
Speaker 1: like in my with my kids in my public schools,
Speaker 1: the when we all sort of came back to school,
Speaker 1: there was all this sort of nervousness among parents about
Speaker 1: like what kind of the control they have over their
Speaker 1: kids' education and what they can do, and whether that's
Speaker 1: the motivating factor for Abbot and some of these other
Speaker 1: folks are not. It's you know, it's the old raw
Speaker 1: and manual quote don't let a good crisis go to waste.
Speaker 1: And this has created an opportunity like never before for
Speaker 1: this to finally pass.
Speaker 5: The money helps too, I mean talking about people, right,
Speaker 5: jeff yas right. I think he correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 5: The biggest single political donation and is in state history
Speaker 5: with the I think when he made the six or
Speaker 5: seven million dollar donation years ago, right, so you know,
Speaker 5: make no mistake. I mean you talk about the kind
Speaker 5: of national connection this has been brewing for for for
Speaker 5: decades in the making, where you know, I read a
Speaker 5: profile from Jeffs in Philadelphia, and it was just really
Speaker 5: interesting that he seems to be very kind of very
Speaker 5: private person, so for him to do kind of an
Speaker 5: extended interview was really interesting. But he just talked about
Speaker 5: kind of you know, this mindset of you know, if
Speaker 5: public schools aren't you know, serving children in the way
Speaker 5: you know that he thinks is you know best per se,
Speaker 5: then they should shut down.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: So you know these are people you know, Abbit has
Speaker 5: a lot of a reason, you know, you know from
Speaker 5: before REPUBLICA and US, you know, we did some good
Speaker 5: reporting on this, you know before you know, before this
Speaker 5: wasn't really an issue that Governor Abbitt was, you know,
Speaker 5: it was top of mind for him, right, but then
Speaker 5: you start to see more of those dollars pour in,
Speaker 5: and you know, you make whatever connections you will from that,
Speaker 5: but it certainly plays a huge factor and kind of
Speaker 5: you know, this rising to the top of kind of
Speaker 5: the priority list for.
Speaker 2: A lot of these politicians.
Speaker 4: I just want to put a fine point on this,
Speaker 4: but Governor Abbot has always been an advocate for vouchers.
Speaker 4: He's been at those school choice rallies since twenty fifteen
Speaker 4: when he was so since he was elected governor, he
Speaker 4: has not been as vocal. Obviously, we talked about this
Speaker 4: in theory.
Speaker 2: It hasn't been his.
Speaker 4: Top priority in seventeen, seventeen, or nineteen or even twenty one.
Speaker 2: It really became an issue in twenty three.
Speaker 4: And I think it's to your point, Matthew, which is
Speaker 4: that the pandemic put a lot of nervousness in a
Speaker 4: lot of parents. There also was legislation passed in a
Speaker 4: lot of other states, and so then the school choice
Speaker 4: advocates are saying, well, how come we can't get it
Speaker 4: done here in Texas, which is they like to argue
Speaker 4: the most conservative state. So that puts pressure on Abbot,
Speaker 4: it puts pressure on the state legislature, and now we're
Speaker 4: seeing pressure from national figures like Elon Musk and Donald
Speaker 4: Trump to get this done. But that's a little bit
Speaker 4: of like sort of the context around this.
Speaker 3: I was like, we as you mentioned, pro Public and
Speaker 3: the Texas Tribune has done a lot of reporting on
Speaker 3: the voucher fight, and we had a story I think
Speaker 3: last year that was like, Texas is the largest GOP
Speaker 3: state to not pass about your program, which is also
Speaker 3: just funny because we're just the largest GOP state. So
Speaker 3: the minute we do pass it, we become the largest
Speaker 3: state to have done it. But yeah, we've been a holdout,
Speaker 3: and I think that's you know, we've been the crown jewel.
Speaker 3: That's the term thing.
Speaker 2: I will tell you.
Speaker 1: It's interesting, I mean, because there are a lot of
Speaker 1: states that have passed this. I was talking with someone
Speaker 1: a few moving Pennsylvania and yeah, it will Vermont.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I was talking to someone in Vermont, a you know,
Speaker 1: the state of Bernie Sanders, right, and talking about how
Speaker 1: this was the dominant issue in Texas, and they were
Speaker 1: just kind of like, it is crazy to me that
Speaker 1: Texas has not passed this, Vermont has this measure. So,
Speaker 1: you know, that's been an interesting thing to watch as well. Jaden,
Speaker 1: you said the money has affected this. I actually thought
Speaker 1: you were going to go in a different direction with that,
Speaker 1: because another way that this has been made possible is
Speaker 1: because the state has a lot of money to spend, right,
Speaker 1: And one of the best strongest political arguments against this
Speaker 1: is that it's going to take money away from public schools.
Speaker 1: But what we've had these past two legislative sessions is
Speaker 1: enough money in the surplus to be able to say,
Speaker 1: we're not going to touch your funding formulas, but we
Speaker 1: are going to bring in this extra pot of money
Speaker 1: that will go towards supporting these measures. But there's been
Speaker 1: a pretty big back and forth in recent days and
Speaker 1: weeks among particularly between Greg Abbott and Democrats about whether
Speaker 1: this bill SB two does or does not defund public schools.
Speaker 1: Can you help help us sort of navigate this issue
Speaker 1: and in the sides of both sides here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, this is this is one of the
Speaker 5: things I find really interesting, right, It at a very
Speaker 5: basic of I'll start here, right, public schools in Texas
Speaker 5: are primarily funded by attendance. So if you're just basically
Speaker 5: looking at if you look at the simple fact of
Speaker 5: there are and that will be probably if this program passes,
Speaker 5: they're going to be public school students who leave their
Speaker 5: public school to attend a private school under this particular program,
Speaker 5: then by definitely, I mean technically public schools are going
Speaker 5: to lose money. And if you look at the kind
Speaker 5: of analysis by the Legislative Budget Board, I believe who
Speaker 5: does the analyzes on these they you know, in collaboration
Speaker 5: with the TEA. I believe they they look at they
Speaker 5: make predictions on kind of generally speaking, how many students
Speaker 5: you know, may leave, right, And it's in the I
Speaker 5: think it's maybe in the hundreds of thousand, a couple
Speaker 5: hundred thousand or so, as they predicted the first year,
Speaker 5: so I have to fact check myself, but nonetheless, a
Speaker 5: considerable number of public school students who will leave to go.
Speaker 5: So by that definition, yes, I think, you know, it's
Speaker 5: a fact that public schools will lose out on money.
Speaker 5: Now there's the second part, which is what Governor Abbott
Speaker 5: is kind of referencing, is, yes, there's a you know,
Speaker 5: a pot of money, you know, you know the school
Speaker 5: that public schools, you know that funds public schools. And
Speaker 5: what they're saying is that we're pulling this from the
Speaker 5: you know, a different you know, pot of money. And
Speaker 5: so he's basically made the point he talked about this
Speaker 5: last night too, is basically you're saying that, you know,
Speaker 5: we fund infrastructure that's pulling from public schools, right, And
Speaker 5: that's not the case. But the surplus becomes really interesting.
Speaker 5: You was just talking to another reporter about this too.
Speaker 5: It's like, how long is this state going to be operating?
Speaker 5: You know, where you have all of these additional dollars
Speaker 5: available to you, right from a surfplus standpoint, right, like
Speaker 5: the program as predicted by the budget Board talks about
Speaker 5: the cost of this program soaring to I think more
Speaker 5: than four and a half billion dollars by the year
Speaker 5: twenty thirty, right, And so are you able to maintain that?
Speaker 5: We'll also keeping up with the needs of public schools,
Speaker 5: which are constitutionally obligated to fund, and that also includes
Speaker 5: you know, students with disabilities and special education services, all
Speaker 5: these things at the state historically has already struggled to fund, right,
Speaker 5: And so I think that's kind of it. And then
Speaker 5: you get to kind of you know, the government recently,
Speaker 5: it's been really interesting to see him. He and his
Speaker 5: social media team have obviously been very aware of some
Speaker 5: of these talking points because he's been responding directly to
Speaker 5: lawmakers and advocates and you know about some of the
Speaker 5: funding talking points. I think a lot of the frustration
Speaker 5: from a lot of the public school advocates, you know,
Speaker 5: and the you know folks who are you know, pushing
Speaker 5: against this program has to do with the fact that
Speaker 5: there was I think it was the big omnibus House
Speaker 5: bill that didn't pass in twenty twenty three, you know,
Speaker 5: had what seven billion dollars in new funds attached to
Speaker 5: it that didn't pass, and a part of that would
Speaker 5: have been a raise to the base amount of money
Speaker 5: that schools will see per student. And since then, in
Speaker 5: the last couple of years, we've seen you know, school
Speaker 5: closures like to deficits at high rates, right, We've seen
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, there's been you know cuts to
Speaker 5: you know, federal funding as it relates to special education services. Right,
Speaker 5: So there are all these things going on. So hopefully
Speaker 5: that gets to the specific answer to your question. But
Speaker 5: I just think it's a sore. There's truth to each
Speaker 5: thing if you look at it, you know, a little
Speaker 5: bit more deeply.
Speaker 2: But go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 5: So no, I was gonna say, But to me, I
Speaker 5: always go back to the fact that if you just
Speaker 5: look at the basic fact that you know, public schools
Speaker 5: are funded by this metric. This metric is going to
Speaker 5: drastically change if public school students leave to go to
Speaker 5: private school and so by definition you're going to have
Speaker 5: public schools that lose out on additional funding.
Speaker 4: But also the way that they're funding it. The argument
Speaker 4: is like, okay, just to make it real simple. If
Speaker 4: the state has ten dollars to give out, right, and
Speaker 4: they're giving out four dollars to public schools right now,
Speaker 4: the governor is basically saying, we're going to keep giving
Speaker 4: them four dollars, but we're also going to give one
Speaker 4: dollar to private school vouchers. Right, So that's a total
Speaker 4: of five dollars for education, but that's also a dollar
Speaker 4: extra that could have gone to public education five. So
Speaker 4: I just want to be like really intellectually honest about
Speaker 4: what we're discussing here, because you can spend it however
Speaker 4: way you want it, Like the governor's team is obviously
Speaker 4: spending his way, Democrats and public school advocates are going
Speaker 4: to spend their way. But I want to be honest
Speaker 4: for the audience about like the funding and.
Speaker 5: Like how how we're talking about it, and like they
Speaker 5: can make people can make up their minds.
Speaker 2: About it, but that that is essentially what is happenings.
Speaker 1: There's a finite amount of dollars, a.
Speaker 4: Finite amount of dollars, and there's a decision being made
Speaker 4: by the legislature and the governor on how that money
Speaker 4: is going to be spent, and it will affect public
Speaker 4: schools and private schools one way or the other.
Speaker 5: And there's a constitutional obligation to make sure that public
Speaker 5: schools are adequately funded, right, And so that's part of it.
Speaker 5: Is like, you know, regardless, you know, if you're saying
Speaker 5: that you're you're putting you know, more money into something
Speaker 5: that's educational related, the question becomes, why can't that go
Speaker 5: into public schools? You know, are struggling in many different ways.
Speaker 5: But I also think the interesting point is that everybody
Speaker 5: seems to be operating from a different set of facts. Right,
Speaker 5: Like if you talk to the governor's office, they're going
Speaker 5: to tell you, well, we funded you know, public schools
Speaker 5: provide more money than we ever have in history, right,
Speaker 5: and the Statesman just there, you know, some really good
Speaker 5: reporting on this, and we've been talking about this as well.
Speaker 5: Here is you know, when you adjust that for inflation,
Speaker 5: it tells a completely different story. And so even the
Speaker 5: everybody seems to be operating from it exactly right. You know, Texas,
Speaker 5: when it comes to per student funding, you know, Rakes,
Speaker 5: I don't have a number on top of my head,
Speaker 5: but we're really low. And when it comes to teacher salaries,
Speaker 5: thirtieth in the nation. Right, So there, you know, there
Speaker 5: are real concerns that that haven't been addressed, and there
Speaker 5: is that feeling of you know, this is the this
Speaker 5: is the system right here that five and a half
Speaker 5: million children to tend.
Speaker 2: This should be the primary focus.
Speaker 4: Two things can be true in that they are the
Speaker 4: highest that they've ever been and that also Texas falls
Speaker 4: behind other states in how how much we're funing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's pause for a second, and here
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Speaker 1: slash get dash involved. All right, so we're talking about
Speaker 1: limited amounts of money here. I mean, another area where
Speaker 1: there are finite amounts of money is just a billion
Speaker 1: dollars currently being allocated in both proposed budgets from the
Speaker 1: House and the Senate to support vouchers ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: per student. If you add up the math, if you
Speaker 1: were to give that to every student currently in private
Speaker 1: school right now, it would not be nearly enough. The
Speaker 1: a billion dollars would not be nearly enough to cover
Speaker 1: that group. You talked a little bit about how they
Speaker 1: prioritize here, but ultimately we're talking about a very strong
Speaker 1: possibility that quickly supply will outpace demand. What do the
Speaker 1: supporters sorry, demand will outplace pace.
Speaker 2: The funding available exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: Yes, what do the people who are advocating these bills,
Speaker 1: whether it's Avid, the authors or anything like that, how
Speaker 1: do they address that concern? And what are they talking
Speaker 1: at all about what the next step will be if
Speaker 1: that if it plays out in that way that we.
Speaker 5: Just described, right, well, I think Senator Creighton, Brandon Creighton,
Speaker 5: who chairs This and Education Committee and is carrying the
Speaker 5: bill on the Senate, really I mean it goes back
Speaker 5: to what we're talking about with the proposed lottery system,
Speaker 5: right and you know, to answer your question directly, right,
Speaker 5: he talked, you know, he's gotten questions about, Okay, you're
Speaker 5: saying that this is going to prioritize low income families
Speaker 5: and students with disabilities. In the event that this scenario
Speaker 5: plays out where the man exceeds funding, then you know,
Speaker 5: if this is going to do that, then why do
Speaker 5: we have such generous kind of flexibility within that lottery
Speaker 5: system itself?
Speaker 2: Right? And he's he's.
Speaker 5: Going on the record and said publicly, right like, we
Speaker 5: don't want to exclude the middle class, right, we want
Speaker 5: to make sure that families who whether they you know,
Speaker 5: have a child who's you know, being bullied in a
Speaker 5: public school, or you know, whether there's any kind of
Speaker 5: frustration they have, they have flexibility for this. He brings
Speaker 5: up the scenario of a teacher and a firefighter with
Speaker 5: four kids. He's like, we want to make sure that
Speaker 5: you know, they are able to access this program as
Speaker 5: they kind of you know work you know, essential jobs
Speaker 5: in the community. Right, they should also have have you know,
Speaker 5: you know, this particular access. But you know it goes
Speaker 5: back to you know, one thing I you know, want
Speaker 5: to bring up here, which is really you know, interesting
Speaker 5: to me is because we can get caught up in
Speaker 5: eligibility conversations about who access is this, so on and
Speaker 5: so forth. Right, there's a difference between eligibility and access.
Speaker 5: And at the end of the day, let's say you're
Speaker 5: a family that gets through the prioritization system, you go
Speaker 5: to a private school, and the private school says you
Speaker 5: don't meet our standards academically whatever it may be, so
Speaker 5: we don't accept you. I have not seen the answer
Speaker 5: to the questions of what happens after that, right, because
Speaker 5: if this is all about helping these students, you know,
Speaker 5: in other states, for example, you've seen in the past
Speaker 5: where some you know, private schools that participate have to
Speaker 5: have certain enrollment requirements, right like you have to, you know,
Speaker 5: but that doesn't seem to exist in the in the
Speaker 5: bills that currently kind of stand. And what we've seen
Speaker 5: in other programs across the state, over overwhelmingly with these
Speaker 5: universal programs, that the vast majority of users end up
Speaker 5: being kids who are already in private school, right, who
Speaker 5: are whose families could already afford private tools, private school tuition,
Speaker 5: and excuse me to some extent, and so to me
Speaker 5: that that brings forth the question of you know, Senator
Speaker 5: Creating has talked a lot about you know, this bill.
Speaker 5: We're trying to learn from all of the other mistakes
Speaker 5: that you know that other states have made, you know,
Speaker 5: as a relates to this program. But the way the
Speaker 5: program is structured in the bill right now, as a
Speaker 5: reporter who's like look breaking down this stuff, I'm really
Speaker 5: struggling to see how from an access standpoint, Texas is
Speaker 5: going to be that much different from the way the
Speaker 5: other programs operate. As it relates to who benefits from
Speaker 5: these programs the most well, and a lot.
Speaker 3: Of private schools cost far more than ten thousand dollars
Speaker 3: a year. So a lot of these, I mean, to
Speaker 3: your point, like a you know, a low income family
Speaker 3: that wants to send their child to a private school
Speaker 3: if that private school is twenty five thousand dollars a year,
Speaker 3: as some of these you know schools are like having
Speaker 3: fifteen thousand, right, fifteen thousand dollars or a year of
Speaker 3: a bill is not accessible. And so I think, as
Speaker 3: you said, in other states, we've certainly seen the people
Speaker 3: who are able to take advantage of this are people
Speaker 3: who are already accessing those and you know, to act.
Speaker 3: A huge sticking point in Texas on this has been
Speaker 3: the rural communities or there are no private schools, and
Speaker 3: so you know those areas are teachers Yeah right, yeah,
Speaker 3: like they're not seeing that they're not you know, sort
Speaker 3: of citing the same issues that maybe people in urban
Speaker 3: areas are with their public schools. But then you know
Speaker 3: they're not gonna be able, not gonna send their kids
Speaker 3: two hours to a private school.
Speaker 5: And what are also to I would I would you know,
Speaker 5: I pose the question too is like, ultimately, if this
Speaker 5: past is, what are the characteristics of the private schools
Speaker 5: that choose to participate, right, because we've seen in other states,
Speaker 5: is some of the private schools that you know, you
Speaker 5: might deem kind of the best, right, whatever metric you
Speaker 5: might use to define that, they don't participate because they're
Speaker 5: probably like you know, we're already find so and we've
Speaker 5: seen you know, some like for example, Governor Ava had
Speaker 5: a press conference in maybe after the election, but he
Speaker 5: had a press conference at a Christians uh yeah, Christian
Speaker 5: school that was on the verge of closing in recent years.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: So also it becomes a question of like the quality
Speaker 5: of the actual education that comes into and what we've seen.
Speaker 5: This is one thing that that kind of I guess
Speaker 5: frustrates me as somebody who's like trying to like wrap
Speaker 5: my head around all this stuff. Is we hear a
Speaker 5: lot about academic outcomes, and what we've seen with these
Speaker 5: universal programs is that, I mean, you look at the
Speaker 5: state like Louisiana, it's pretty common knowledge from you know,
Speaker 5: pro vout your folks, anti vulture folks, academic results were
Speaker 5: abysmal in that state at one point, as you tied
Speaker 5: it to as you looked at kind of public school outcomes,
Speaker 5: you know, relative cases of performance on kind of centered
Speaker 5: our tests and relatives to what they did in public school, right, abysmal. Right,
Speaker 5: And so then the metric of how we define, you know,
Speaker 5: whether this program is successful or not has started to change.
Speaker 5: Now it becomes about it's not about academic outcomes. In
Speaker 5: was about parental satisfaction, right, for parents happy about it.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: So I just think there are a lot of these
Speaker 5: kind of I know that kind of goes a little
Speaker 5: bit maybe off of kind of what we were talking about,
Speaker 5: but I just think it's really interesting overall when we
Speaker 5: talk about ultimately who's going to access these programs, and
Speaker 5: then how do we measure whether the programs actually live
Speaker 5: up to the promises that officials are making.
Speaker 4: Could we just all right, I just want to take
Speaker 4: it a step back and also acknowledge that there are
Speaker 4: problems with public schools.
Speaker 2: Right there are public schools.
Speaker 4: There are public schools that have been failing in the
Speaker 4: state for a long time, and that is a frustration
Speaker 4: of conservatives, and it is a frustration of parents. It's
Speaker 4: a frustration of low income parents because they want the
Speaker 4: best for their kids. If they could afford private school,
Speaker 4: maybe they would consider private school. But as a former
Speaker 4: low income kid who went to a not good public school,
Speaker 4: to your point, Jaden, unless it was like a Catholic
Speaker 4: school that was tied to the churches that like kids
Speaker 4: in my neighborhood went to, we didn't know any other
Speaker 4: private schools, and we had no idea how to get
Speaker 4: an application to one of these schools, and we probably
Speaker 4: wouldn't have been accepted to these schools because.
Speaker 2: The jump is just so big.
Speaker 4: So I think I just want to acknowledge the fact
Speaker 4: that there are problems with the public education system that
Speaker 4: conservatives are rightly I think, upset about. But it's the
Speaker 4: details and like how do we answer these things? And
Speaker 4: some of these things, I don't think that SB two
Speaker 4: is going to be the definitive thing.
Speaker 2: Right, we're waiting for the House bill.
Speaker 4: Maybe some of these questions get answered in the House
Speaker 4: bill and it looks a little bit different because that
Speaker 4: was the sticking point, right, the House was a sticking point,
Speaker 4: And there are new legislators who are more open to
Speaker 4: a voucher system. But everyone keeps saying the devil is
Speaker 4: in the details, and what are those details? And I mean,
Speaker 4: hopefully we'll find out in the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 3: I mean, I do think there's like somewhat bipartisan, longstanding
Speaker 3: bipartisan agreement, right that like their public schools need you know,
Speaker 3: there's different ways that public schools are not serving communities
Speaker 3: in the way that ideally exactly right. It's like we
Speaker 3: agree on that. Like almost everything in Texas, almost everything
Speaker 3: in politics, we agree on the problem. There's two hugely
Speaker 3: different approaches solution, right, the conservative approach tends look more
Speaker 3: like Boucher's. The other side would say, like, just give
Speaker 3: that money into the public schools. Right, if you take
Speaker 3: let people leave, you were never going to fix the
Speaker 3: public schools, and you're just going to have the people
Speaker 3: who can't who don't know.
Speaker 4: How We've seen privatization have that impact on other parts
Speaker 4: of asolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I mean, it is a conservative belief that
Speaker 1: the free market leads to improved outcomes for customers, right
Speaker 1: and right now, the conservative case for this would be
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of kids who are stuck
Speaker 1: in schools that are not performing well that essentially have
Speaker 1: a monopoly over the students in that system. You are
Speaker 1: creating a system where they might now have some money
Speaker 1: attached to them, which could create new schools to possibly
Speaker 1: pop up to serve those communities. You're also putting some
Speaker 1: financial market pressure on the schools that are already in
Speaker 1: place to improve in ways that may not have existed before.
Speaker 4: But I think even Republicans will argue like that, you know,
Speaker 4: there are charter schools that have been set up to
Speaker 4: address this kind of thing too, and right.
Speaker 3: It was been like trying to fix this for a
Speaker 3: long time. I think the counter argument, right is like,
Speaker 3: if you the free market, you know, public school is
Speaker 3: inherently built to be public, we serve everyone. You potentially
Speaker 3: hollow out those public schools. You leave only the people
Speaker 3: that sort of don't get into the private schools or
Speaker 3: can't access a private school. That's solving the problem for individuals,
Speaker 3: maybe not for the public. So these are two different
Speaker 3: approaches the exact same problem.
Speaker 5: Okay, So go ahead, I was gonna say, I mean,
Speaker 5: there's a couple of things. There's a lot there, but
Speaker 5: you don't have to answer everything is this is the
Speaker 5: things that keep me up at night, right, And you
Speaker 5: know you have to look at you know, there's a
Speaker 5: couple of things, right, because there is a there is
Speaker 5: a narrative out there and depending on how you judge
Speaker 5: a public school, right, that that public schools are you know, feeling,
Speaker 5: aren't you know, you know we know that you know
Speaker 5: from star scores and national tests, right, there have been
Speaker 5: you know, struggles for students and uh, you know, schools
Speaker 5: to rebound. Right, you know the one thing I think
Speaker 5: about often, right, and I go back to history, right,
Speaker 5: because if you look, first of all, we're talking about
Speaker 5: an educational system where you know, largely has struggle to
Speaker 5: even fully integrate, right overall resistance to those things, right,
Speaker 5: And so you're talking about generations of low income families
Speaker 5: who are predominantly black and brown who have struggled to
Speaker 5: catch up because of those institutional barriers you know that
Speaker 5: are in place, right, And so you know that's one
Speaker 5: thing I think about. But you know, also you know,
Speaker 5: as we talk about kind of you know, the meaning
Speaker 5: that the institutions and you know, how we judge public
Speaker 5: schools also differs. Right, if you ask the Texas Education Agency,
Speaker 5: you ask Governor Abbott, you know even you know, you
Speaker 5: look at Houston, I Z and Superintendent Mike Miles, Right,
Speaker 5: he's a very interesting guy. You know, read about him
Speaker 5: and then talk to him once you know everything that
Speaker 5: he looks at is all driven by the standardized testing scores. Right,
Speaker 5: And I would I would, I would venture out to say, right,
Speaker 5: there are public schools out here that are that function
Speaker 5: in so many more ways, particularly in our rural communities, right,
Speaker 5: but in urban as well, Right, that function in so
Speaker 5: many more ways to try to meet the moment and
Speaker 5: making meet for students.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: I know of a rural school district that literally has
Speaker 5: implemented washing machines to wash clothes for kids because they're
Speaker 5: struggling with chronic apsenteeism. And you know, students, I show
Speaker 5: up the class and one reason they know is like
Speaker 5: maybe they don't have clean clothes or adequate resources at home, right,
Speaker 5: And so I just think we as a general public
Speaker 5: right have to understand that, you know, standardized testing scores
Speaker 5: as a result of no Child Left behind the policy
Speaker 5: as we look at nationally.
Speaker 2: Right, all we talk about is a.
Speaker 5: Test, but there are so many more factors that go
Speaker 5: into whether or not a public school is meeting the moment.
Speaker 5: And I bet you you know, you go on the ground,
Speaker 5: you actually talk to kind of lower income family and
Speaker 5: families that struggle. Right, there are things that public schools
Speaker 5: are doing right now, particularly as it relates to you know,
Speaker 5: you know, students with disabilities or whatever it may be,
Speaker 5: that you know, services and uh, you know, benefits that
Speaker 5: they can't find elsewhere because of you know, uh you know,
Speaker 5: whether it be private school or whatever it may be.
Speaker 2: So I just think that's in.
Speaker 3: Some ways a public school. You know, part of its
Speaker 3: value is that it does it is there right, It
Speaker 3: serves everyone. It is before care, aftercare, It allows parents
Speaker 3: to you know, go to work. Like there is some
Speaker 3: inherent underlying value to that that private schools also have value,
Speaker 3: but are not you know, they're not saying we are
Speaker 3: we open our doors for everybody.
Speaker 2: And it's not even just a Texas like.
Speaker 3: Nationally, that's the promise of public school And.
Speaker 5: I was going to say, too, have we seen a
Speaker 5: educational system in the country, right, Texas included where public
Speaker 5: schools actually have all the resources they need, right, because
Speaker 5: to me it becomes interesting.
Speaker 2: Right and.
Speaker 1: Right, But I meant the city in those places you
Speaker 1: could argue that the advantage is less what resources the
Speaker 1: schools have, but more the resources the parents have and
Speaker 1: the ability to read to their kids and some proper
Speaker 1: nutrition and yeah, and and like yeah, you know, the
Speaker 1: it's hard to separate those things when we're so divided
Speaker 1: by income and other factors.
Speaker 3: So in the end them is everything.
Speaker 1: Exactly Okay, So I want to I want to get
Speaker 1: I want to drill into what's still to be figured
Speaker 1: out here because I think the two chambers are in
Speaker 1: agreement right around how much they want to spend. Right,
Speaker 1: it seems like we've we've sort of zeroed in on
Speaker 1: this ten thousand base amount right that that parents would
Speaker 1: provide the sticking points. The things that need to be
Speaker 1: ironed out, It seems like, are what if any accountability
Speaker 1: measures are in place, right, and and basically, how do
Speaker 1: you prioritize when you reach the inevitable point when demand
Speaker 1: outpaces supply? Right? Are those Are there other things that
Speaker 1: need to be figured out between those two that are
Speaker 1: that that feel major to you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I mean the one thing I'm looking out for, you know,
Speaker 5: and we're expecting this week. Uh, you know, Speaker Borroughs
Speaker 5: talked about you know, they're going to follow their priority
Speaker 5: Priority bill this week, right, and so what'll be interesting
Speaker 5: to me. Obviously they'll wrestle a little bit over you know,
Speaker 5: be interesting to see kind of you know, what they
Speaker 5: allocate per year per student. But to me, it goes
Speaker 5: back to kind of the prioritization, right, because the one
Speaker 5: thing I thought about is like, you have some of
Speaker 5: the kind of more rule lawmakers who maybe the five
Speaker 5: hundred percent of poverty thresholders not fly with them, right,
Speaker 5: Like maybe you know, they have a better understanding of
Speaker 5: you know, we have you know, families in our community
Speaker 5: who are really struggling. And so that was one thing
Speaker 5: that I kind of aplied early on. It's like, it'll
Speaker 5: be interesting to see kind of what the competing like,
Speaker 5: how they kind of you know, think about that particularly
Speaker 5: as it relates to also special education and students with disabilities.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: You know, one thing that that you know, I found
Speaker 5: is a really interesting nugget. I was listening to speaker
Speaker 5: Boroughs talk to some you know, civic leaders and Austin
Speaker 5: a couple of weeks ago, and you know, he kind
Speaker 5: of revealed how, you know, he has children with learning disabilities, right,
Speaker 5: and so he talked about getting it right with special education.
Speaker 5: We're gonna the House is gonna lead the way on this, right.
Speaker 5: And so, but the one thing to watch out for
Speaker 5: with that though, is like Senator Cragon on the other hand,
Speaker 5: he's been very reluctant to to to impose any particular
Speaker 5: requirements on private schools in these particular programs.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: He wants them to have kind of the flexibility and
Speaker 5: the freedom to kind of operate, you know, as they
Speaker 5: as they feel they need to write. And so again,
Speaker 5: I don't know that it'll be It'll be in the details, right.
Speaker 5: You talk about doublin details of kind of what the
Speaker 5: things are, but those are those are things that immediately
Speaker 5: come to mind as to kind of what are the
Speaker 5: kind of differing you know, details that may come up
Speaker 5: between each chamber that could potentially be kind of points
Speaker 5: that they need to iron out together.
Speaker 1: So we are talking about seventy eight seventy nine, as
Speaker 1: Abbot calls them, heart vouch your support hardcore. You know,
Speaker 1: there's and there's been some some folks who would fall
Speaker 1: under that hardcore camp who have quivvled with different details
Speaker 1: and things like that. There are people who you talk
Speaker 1: to in the legislature right now who still believe that
Speaker 1: there are major roadblocks to this happening.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You go one way, you lose some votes, You go
Speaker 1: the other way, you lose some votes. Is that magical thinking, James.
Speaker 2: I think they're going to get something done.
Speaker 4: I think they'll have to sort out some of these issues,
Speaker 4: particularly like on special education because you can see sort
Speaker 4: of from Senator Creighton's point, you don't want to impose
Speaker 4: a new requirement on these private schools that don't previously
Speaker 4: have these requirements.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, if the House is really
Speaker 4: invested in making sure that kids with special needs also
Speaker 4: have access to to this program, then they're going to
Speaker 4: have to sort something out. And I think there's going
Speaker 4: to be more sorting on accountability standards. But I do
Speaker 4: think that the votes are there, the pressure from the
Speaker 4: governors there, the pressure from other places are there. I
Speaker 4: think they'll figure out something to get done. It's just like,
Speaker 4: what does that look like in the end, And I
Speaker 4: don't think that it's going to be everything that's in
Speaker 4: the Senate buil that passed.
Speaker 1: All right, Eleanor I'm going to direct the last question
Speaker 1: to you, and it's going to be maybe a hard question.
Speaker 2: We'll see.
Speaker 1: But this was the number one issue on avis radar
Speaker 1: last legislative session. The House succeeded in blocking it due
Speaker 1: to rural Republicans and Democrats. The impact of that so
Speaker 1: far has been billions of dollars in funding that would
Speaker 1: have gone to the schools that didn't, the ousting of
Speaker 1: many rural Republicans, the election of what I think we
Speaker 1: could all agree is the most politically conservative Texas House
Speaker 1: in state history. The emergence of Greg Abbott as really
Speaker 1: like Greg Abbott sort of finding his voices in the
Speaker 1: right word, his power right in the way that he
Speaker 1: I think wields more influence over the legislature than he
Speaker 1: has in his entire time, and uh, you know, strikes
Speaker 1: fear in members of the legislature in a way beyond
Speaker 1: any other time, and that he's he's served in an office.
Speaker 1: How can we not view the decision of you know,
Speaker 1: particularly opponents, particularly the Democrat side of those opponents as
Speaker 1: a to block it in twenty twenty three as anything
Speaker 1: beyond just a complete disaster and a thing that has
Speaker 1: completely backfired on their party and what they want to
Speaker 1: see the state accomplished as a whole overall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is the I think forever balance
Speaker 3: that we see from the Democrats and people who are
Speaker 3: interested in blocking sort of the Republican agenda in Texas
Speaker 3: that they have to play, which is like, if we
Speaker 3: stop this thing, is there just a worse thing waiting
Speaker 3: behind the next corner. And recently it seems like yes, right,
Speaker 3: I mean we've seen that with the voting legislation, with
Speaker 3: abortion legislation with them, you know, obviously with school of vouchers.
Speaker 3: It's like the Republican machine on the issues that they
Speaker 3: choose to prioritize seems to at this point to overstate it.
Speaker 3: I'm sure, like have no limit, right, Like they can
Speaker 3: just like run like a train right down the track
Speaker 3: and if there's something in their way, it might take
Speaker 3: them longer, but they will get there ultimately. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a I think it's very hard to be a
Speaker 3: minority party for this long and not look back and
Speaker 3: think like, did we the things we block? Did they
Speaker 3: not just like cause something worse down the road from
Speaker 3: their perspective?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Well, any any like you want to talk about, like
Speaker 1: the impact on high school sports sports question?
Speaker 3: I was like, I have reached the end. I will
Speaker 3: just say, like, Jayden, you, I mean, when did you
Speaker 3: started on this beat? Relatively recently, but man, you know
Speaker 3: a lot. When did you start?
Speaker 5: I started here in June. Yeah, I was covering like
Speaker 5: criminal justice before. So it's amazing some intersection, but not
Speaker 5: obviously as much.
Speaker 1: Well, it has been great to have you on. We
Speaker 1: really appreciate you lending your insight. Thank you also to
Speaker 1: our sponsors, the Coalition of Education Funding and Raise your
Speaker 1: Hand Texas. Thank you to our producer Chris No. Thank
Speaker 1: you to our producer Rob who was in Japan. He
Speaker 1: abandoned Chris all.
Speaker 2: That like a business trip board.
Speaker 3: That's just like, yeah, when he comes back, we'll get
Speaker 3: him to do a full segment on the trip.
Speaker 1: Rob is also the composer of our trip cast theme.
Speaker 1: Do you think he's performing the theme in Japan? The
Speaker 1: fans are.
Speaker 3: Asking, so our Japanese audience.
Speaker 2: All right, thanks I we'll talk to you all next week.
Speaker 4: M