WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:05.080 Today's episode of the trip Cast is sponsored by the 2 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:13.000 Coalition of Education Funding and Raise your Hand Texas. Hello 3 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:16.960 and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for February eighteenth, 4 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:20.359 twenty twenty five. I am Matthew Watkins, editor in chief 5 00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:23.160 of the Texas Tribune, and as usual, we are joined 6 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:25.719 by politics reporter James Bergon. 7 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:27.719 Welcome back, Matthew, Thank you. 8 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.199 I'm glad to be back. And also you know her 9 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.640 as the stephen A. Smith of the Texas Tribune. Eleanor Cleveanov. 10 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.399 Hello, My sports knowledge is bested only by my politics knowledge. 11 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:40.759 I go away for two weeks and it's just nothing 12 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:43.039 but hot sports takes the entire time. 13 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:44.000 I can't believe it. 14 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:45.679 This is as shocking to me as it is to 15 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:46.280 everyone else. 16 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:51.960 And our special guest this week is our K through 17 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.840 twelve education reporter Jadan Edison. Hey, Jaden, thanks for having me. 18 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:57.560 Glad to be here, Glad to have you here. So 19 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:01.920 let's talk about what happened this week. Jaden is here. 20 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:05.519 We're going to talk about the hot ticket item of 21 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:09.319 the legislative session, school choice school vouchers, whatever you want 22 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:11.280 to call it. But first let's just look you know. 23 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:15.000 I think catching up on something we've been looking forward 24 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:18.000 to for a few weeks was the announcement of House 25 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.840 committee assignments in the State House. Dustin Burrow's doing this 26 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:24.480 for the first time. People watching that to get a 27 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:27.239 little bit of a sense of what kind of leader 28 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:30.120 he would be. James, you covered that story. What did 29 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:31.239 you see? 30 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:31.799 I did well? 31 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:34.920 He followed through on the new rules to not appoint 32 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:39.120 any new Democratic chairs. It's all Republican chairs, and that 33 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:41.159 of course was a big topic of conversation in the 34 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:45.760 primaries and in the speakers race. He also left in 35 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:50.519 place a lot of Feelin's team. A lot of senior 36 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:56.400 lawmakers are either keeping their previous chairmanships like Greg bond 37 00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:00.200 And on Appropriations, Morgan Meyer on Ways and Means, or 38 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:04.680 they got moved around to other very important committees like 39 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:07.400 Todd Hunters back on Calendars. Ken King moved up to 40 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:10.360 State Affairs. That's a big promotion for him, and also 41 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:13.639 got some good new blood in there. Lacey Hull, I 42 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:17.840 think is worth noting she's the third term lawmaker from Houston, 43 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:21.879 really went to bat for Burrows and gave a fiery 44 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:24.599 nominating speech for him, and stuck with him even when 45 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:28.599 she was being targeted. So she's heading a committee now. 46 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.439 Cole Hefner also heading a committee for the first time, 47 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:34.280 like a standing committee for the first time. So, you know, 48 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:37.199 it was interesting to see. I was interested to see 49 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:40.439 how he would manage this. There's always the potential for 50 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:43.120 the speaker to go after people who did not support 51 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:46.240 him and throw sharp elbows. He didn't do that so much. 52 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:49.759 He kind of gave his opponents, you know, subcommittee chairmanships. 53 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:52.400 He gave John Smithy a chairmanship. He was in the 54 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:56.520 running for the gavel as well. So from my read, 55 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:59.159 he's sort of kept everyone happy. I didn't see anybody 56 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:04.520 super upset about the committee appointments, and so he's off 57 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:07.919 to a decent start. He's got everybody calm down, and 58 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.520 now that we've got committee appointments, we can start moving 59 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:13.280 bills through the legislative process. 60 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:17.919 On the House side, it seems like the early reports 61 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:21.319 on Burrows seems to be and maybe this is because 62 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.879 this is possible because you know, we're not moving legislation yet, 63 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:28.560 we're not having to make the toughest choices. But it 64 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:33.960 seems to be an idea of you know, people kind 65 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:36.120 of were watching him with knives out, ready to go 66 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:38.800 after him, ready to attack, and he has been trying 67 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:41.240 to sort of mend those fences, whether it's with the governor, 68 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.280 the lieutenant governor, or even members of the House, people 69 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:45.400 who voted against him. 70 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:46.199 Would you agree with that. 71 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:48.280 Yeah, I mean, I think also, I mean the reality 72 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:50.759 is that he's a very conservative guy. No matter how 73 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:53.599 his opponents try to paint him during the speaker race, 74 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.360 he's a pretty super conservative guy. He's much more conservative 75 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:02.439 than a Speaker Feeling. Speaker Feeling has admitted that he 76 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:05.039 told Evan Smith that I'd a talk at the LBJ school, 77 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:08.759 so he was he was going to be a conservative guy. 78 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:13.360 And I think he's going to pass conservative legislation. And 79 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:16.439 you know, he's doing the right things. He's starting right 80 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:18.560 on time at ten am every day, or whenever they 81 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:20.480 say they're going to gabble in, he gabbles in. 82 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:22.120 He's making you happy for that. 83 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:24.360 He's trying to he's trying to make sure that like 84 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:27.079 things are running on time so that he avoids that criticism. 85 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:28.680 And you know, he's a savvy operator. 86 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:31.000 We wrote a couple of stories about him and his 87 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:35.040 relationship with Dan Patrick. His relationship with Governor Abbott. He's 88 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.240 a conservative guy, he's a savvy operator. He's trying to 89 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.480 keep everybody happy. But you know, I think you talked 90 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:43.879 about people having their knives out. He's got his own knives. 91 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.800 He is, uh, he's he's a tough player in the legislature. 92 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:49.560 So I think he's ready for all this stuff. 93 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:51.639 I mean, we've talked about this before, right but like 94 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:54.360 in these fights within the Republican Party in Texas, we 95 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:59.839 are again talking about like pretty you know, conservative against conservative. 96 00:04:59.879 --> 00:05:02.879 So the gap between you know, Burrows and some of 97 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.720 his critics on the right is not massive ideologically, so 98 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:09.240 he's got, you know, a chance. But like you said, 99 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:11.959 nothing's moving yet. So right now, it's easy to start 100 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.040 at ten am and have everybody be friends. 101 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.879 And the pressure will start now depending on how quickly 102 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:20.600 the Voucher's bill moves and then some of the other 103 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:24.639 Senate priorities, because Lieutenant Governor Patrick's already saying we're not 104 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.839 leaving without these these bills to change how bail works 105 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:32.120 here in the state. We're going to go to special sessions. 106 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:36.240 So unless those things start moving through the process, I 107 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.040 think he's going to start seeing some pressure here. 108 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:39.920 And rightfully. So, I mean they've got they've got to 109 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:40.920 get going right right. 110 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:44.920 Well, one thing that they could get going on pretty 111 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:49.519 quickly here is a piece of legislation to use state 112 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.000 tax dollars to help parents pay for their private school 113 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:57.800 or homeschooling expenses. This has been kind of amazingly the 114 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:02.319 dominant political issue in Texas, particularly around the Capitol for 115 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:06.839 more than two years now. There's the individual kind of 116 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:09.800 fight over this, which Abbott has sort of staked his 117 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:14.439 claim on and has made his top legislative issue at least. 118 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:17.079 He spends a lot of energy on the border as well, 119 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:19.040 but has been able to kind of take action on 120 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:25.000 that independent of the legislature. And this has been such 121 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:27.920 an issue that it has really in these past two 122 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:31.720 years not just been a issue of substance in politics 123 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:34.839 in terms of policy, but also really serve to reshape 124 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.519 the Texas legislature in a lot of different ways that 125 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.839 we can really go into. Jaden is here to talk 126 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:47.199 about that with us, and I want to start right 127 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:50.800 by saying where we stand. So the Senate has passed 128 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:53.720 SB two already. This is what we are calling the 129 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:58.040 school Voucher's Bill. It is now time for the House 130 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:02.199 to take it up. Dustin Burrough aforementioned Dustin Burrows appeared 131 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:07.480 on stage with Greg Abbott over the Long weekend over 132 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:10.839 the holiday weekend, essentially saying, you know, we're going to 133 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.240 introduce a measure in the House and we're going to 134 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:16.680 move on that and it will pass as well. So 135 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:18.759 we're looking at a situation we can kind of get 136 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:21.240 into whether we all believe that to be true or not. 137 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:24.279 There are some doubters at least still in that realm. 138 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:27.439 But Jaden, I want to just start by having you 139 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:32.639 sort of explain to us what this bill would actually do. 140 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:35.040 Let's start with SB two, that's the one that has 141 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:38.240 passed the Senate. Tell us what this program is, what 142 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:39.399 it would mean for the state. 143 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:42.879 Right, Well, it only took I did the math last week. 144 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.079 It took the Senate twenty two days from the start 145 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.600 of the session to pass the bill. So that speaks 146 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:50.360 to someone of the urgency that they've tried to move with. 147 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:54.519 But particularly this bill is really interesting, right. I think 148 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:57.759 the premise of it is, you know, allowing the use 149 00:07:57.800 --> 00:07:59.839 of a tend to up to right now, the basis 150 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:03.000 to thousand dollars per student per year. For a family 151 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:06.879 to be able to, you know, obviously use taxpayer dollars 152 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:09.600 to fund their children's private school tuition through you know, 153 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:12.879 what we all know is education savings accounts, right other 154 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:14.920 you know, people in education policies fas think of that 155 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:17.279 is like it's basically like a voucher plus system, right 156 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:20.560 where you know, there are particulars about you know how 157 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:22.480 you know families you know receive the money, but for 158 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:25.519 all intents and purposes, you know, they're they're the same, right. 159 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:29.519 And so that's the base. And then that has additional 160 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:35.000 allocations for for students with disabilities and also sets aside 161 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.240 roughly about two thousand dollars per year per student for 162 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:41.559 homeschooling families, right. And so that's to a piece a 163 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.440 lot of the homeschooling you know, groups who in recent 164 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:44.960 years have come out and kind of wanted to be 165 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.080 included in these programs. 166 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:48.559 So that's the base of it. 167 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:50.480 Where I found where I found it really interesting, and 168 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:52.360 we're kind of a lot of my attention is kind 169 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:56.200 of right now is you know, there are certain provisions 170 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:59.480 in the bill that anticipates perhaps you know, a scenario 171 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.039 where if demandate exceeds funding, then now we have to 172 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:05.720 figure out kind of who to prioritize, right, And the 173 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:08.600 way the bill is currently structured is they would prioritize 174 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:12.080 the overwhelming majority of those spots for students from two groups, right, 175 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:16.960 students with disabilities and then students who come from households, 176 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:21.399 you know, who live at or below five hundred percent 177 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:22.759 of the federal poverty line. 178 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:23.039 Right. 179 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:26.559 Where that gets really interesting is that federal poverty that 180 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:29.200 that using that definition, which they define as a low 181 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:32.960 income household would mean families up to around roughly one 182 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:35.559 hundred and sixty thousand dollars a year, depending on if 183 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:38.480 you use the twenty four guidelines or the twenty five guidelines, right, 184 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:40.679 And so that's really interesting, and this created this kind 185 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:43.399 of tension in the you know, I would say more 186 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:45.159 so obviously from the Democrats. This has been a huge 187 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:47.639 talking point on the floor and then the public hearing 188 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:50.360 at the committee level of if this is a program 189 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:53.279 that's going to priory, you know, prioritize students from low 190 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.879 income families and students with disabilities, and you're creating a 191 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:00.399 prioritization system where students on the wealth you're in of 192 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:03.879 a spectrum, you know, are basically and you know, treated 193 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.679 the same as a family who is on free or 194 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:10.559 reduced lunch, for example, which is significantly you know, uh lower, 195 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:12.519 that's that's about one hundred and thirty to one hundred 196 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:14.759 and eighty five percent of federal poverty, right, so significantly 197 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:18.440 lower for a household of for you know, then how 198 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:20.039 are we how is it that we're pushing this in 199 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.440 the name of kind of low income families and students 200 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.159 with disability. So that's been the real tension. But I 201 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:27.759 will say that generalize general that generalizes kind of what 202 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:29.840 the bill is. And then obviously, you know, there's conversations 203 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:33.559 about accountability. You know, it does require, for example, that 204 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:36.200 participating in private schools have to take what's known as 205 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:39.600 a nationally norm reference test, so that's basically the SAT 206 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:42.399 or the ACT, right, but no requirement they take the STAR. 207 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:45.039 And so that's also been kind of a point of contention, 208 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:47.559 as you know, public schools are saying we wanted even 209 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:50.600 playing field. You're going to you know, implement this program, 210 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:52.559 and so those are some of the I can pause here, 211 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:54.759 but that's kind of generally speaking, a lot of the 212 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:56.120 things that folks are talking about right now. 213 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:58.200 I want to get into some of the details of 214 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:00.080 that some of the criticisms of this, but let so 215 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.399 it's first just sort of take a step back, James 216 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:06.919 and tell me make the case for me as it 217 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:09.519 has been made by proponents, you know, Avid in particular 218 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:11.360 of why the state needs this. 219 00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:14.600 Well, I think the main argument, and Jayden you can 220 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:18.799 jump in, but I think they are saying that they 221 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:23.440 are upset with public schools, particularly public schools that are 222 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.679 in low income areas, that have not been as successful 223 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:29.480 as they could be for many, many years, and they're 224 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:32.879 saying those kids should be able to have options to 225 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:37.559 go to other schools, including private schools, and that really 226 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:41.000 any parent should be able to take their kid out 227 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.840 of their school that they're zoned to or that they 228 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:47.279 go to that's paid by public dollars and take that 229 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:52.120 money that they pay into the state and spend it 230 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.080 on the school of their choice. 231 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:56.759 That I think is the argument. 232 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.480 Of course, private school a lot more expensive than the 233 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.559 ten dollars ten thousand dollars. 234 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:05.639 Voucher that they are going to get, but that that 235 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:06.399 is a proposal. 236 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:09.279 Yeah, you know, it was interesting I was watching last night. 237 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:12.480 Governor Abbot was in San Antonio, on the stage at 238 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:16.159 a Christian private school out there out that way. He 239 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:20.279 shared the stage with Dustin Borough Speaker Boroughs and also 240 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:23.240 public education share Brad Buckley, and so it was really 241 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.279 those were also interested to tune in to see because 242 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:26.519 it was the first time kind of I've been able 243 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.399 to see that dynamic on the same I was wondering 244 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:31.080 if they threw out any nuggets. You know, they're pretty 245 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.120 upfront sometimes in those kind of events where they talk 246 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.720 about things that are kind of forthcoming. But one of 247 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:38.120 the main takeaways that that that was really interesting to 248 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.879 me is you know, uh, you know, Governor Abbot talked 249 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:45.000 a little bit about kind of you know, frustration with 250 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:47.759 you know, and what a lot of conservatives have deemed 251 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:50.279 kind of quote unquote you know left wing and doctrine nation, 252 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.519 you know, of schools. You know, he cited you know, 253 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:56.519 you know recent you know news that came out about uh, 254 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:58.799 you know, a situation at in bell Or High School 255 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:02.840 where in Houston where basically you know, there was you know, 256 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:06.759 teachers who were you know, basically abiding by a student's 257 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.600 request to you know use different you know pronouns or 258 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:13.840 something along those lines and whatnot. And he cited that 259 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:17.399 is an example of kind of the problems that he 260 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:21.960 sees within public schools that he sees kind of this 261 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:24.840 voucher program as a solution to. 262 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:25.159 Right. 263 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:28.679 So I said to say, is yeah, right, we've heard 264 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:30.799 a lot about kind of academic outcomes and we know, 265 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:34.000 naturally right, like public schools, I mean schools are people 266 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:37.279 are struggling to rebound from you know, the brunt of 267 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.879 the COVID nineteen pandemic. But making there's there's no secret 268 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:43.919 about it that this this also has to do with 269 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:47.120 kind of overall frustration with the direction you know, you know, 270 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:49.360 this feeling and I think a lot you know, after 271 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:51.320 George Floyd's murder, you saw a lot of promises from 272 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:53.960 these public institutions that came out, including public schools, We're 273 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:55.399 going to do better. Right, we need to do better 274 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:57.919 in areas of diversity, equity and inclusion. 275 00:13:58.000 --> 00:13:58.159 Right. 276 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:02.360 And in my view, right this movement in some ways right, 277 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:04.080 And I think the governor's frame of this way is 278 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.679 kind of pushed back to that's gone too far, right, 279 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.799 And so you know, this is a solution that he sees, 280 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:11.919 you know, to being able to push back and to 281 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:14.559 you know, offer and he's at a Christian school, you know, 282 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:16.639 So this is all happened at the same time where 283 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.279 we're seeing state officials push for more you know, you know, 284 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.840 religious components, Christianity in particular in public schools. But also 285 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:26.559 he's making a lot of these kind of talking points, 286 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:29.080 you know, in the background of schools that have a 287 00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.720 particular Christian focus. So a lot of couple interesting dynamics. 288 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:33.120 That's that's also, I. 289 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:37.639 Mean, that is a political argument that sort of is uh, 290 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:43.080 it's it's a very smart political argument by proponents to 291 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.960 make d EI the bad guy, the boogeyman. But I 292 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.879 mean the other thing is that some private institutions that 293 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:53.559 would benefit from this also have DEI programs and they 294 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:57.600 have DEI coordinators, right. But this is I just want 295 00:14:57.639 --> 00:14:59.120 to be clear about this. This is like more of 296 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:03.759 a political talking point rather than what the original intense 297 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.440 I guess quote unquote was, which was to have like 298 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.559 better academic outcomes for kids. There there's now a conversation 299 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.360 about de EI, the DEI boogeyman and indoctrinating kids as 300 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:19.919 opposed to like what the actual academic outcomes are and 301 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:22.639 what would improve academic outcomes for kids. 302 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.120 It's a smart I mean it's a smart political point. 303 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.679 I mean this has been like a long like it's 304 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:31.039 Bouchers and getting public funding into private schools has been 305 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.000 like a longstanding conservative issue that has taken different forms 306 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:38.600 throughout like going back to you know when we started 307 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:41.200 sort of seeing schools get integrated after Brown view board 308 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:43.960 of education, Like this has taken different forms, that has 309 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:48.840 had different political underpinnings, you know, anti DEI last session, 310 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.279 I think a lot of the conversation and still now 311 00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:53.639 but was around you know, sort of the boogeyman of 312 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:57.679 or the sort of talking point of parents' rights and 313 00:15:57.799 --> 00:15:59.759 parents have, you know, the right to sort of direct 314 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.759 their children's education and these other things that we see, 315 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:06.480 you know, political catchphrases like you said, smart political advertising 316 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:09.279 of an issue that has taken different forms, but it's 317 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:10.600 been a priority nonetheless. 318 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:12.519 But if a teacher at a public school is a 319 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:15.120 transgender person and they're teaching your kid math, and your 320 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.120 kid learns math one way or the other, like it really, 321 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:20.279 I mean it doesn't matter, right if we're just talking 322 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:23.080 about academic outcomes. But what they don't like is the 323 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.639 social aspect of this, the DEI part of this. 324 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:31.159 Yeah, I mean, I think the pandemic may have really 325 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:33.799 changed this conversation, right, because, as you point out, this 326 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:35.879 has been something people have been advocating for a long time. 327 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.559 I mean, the founding of the Texas Public Policy Foundation, 328 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:40.879 the major kind of think tank in this state, dates 329 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:43.519 back to the eighties and this was really the main 330 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:46.120 issue of the person who founded it. And you know, 331 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.759 I've been here long enough here covering the capital, paying 332 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:51.840 attention to the capital to be able to remember those 333 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:55.360 sort of every two years, those rallies on the capital steps, 334 00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:59.240 people wearing yellow scarves calling for school choice, and they 335 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.399 would pass the same it and wouldn't really go anywhere. 336 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.759 And I think, you know, the pandemic and the murder 337 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:09.519 of George Floyd, which in many ways, you know the 338 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:13.279 social movement that arose after that. Many ways those two 339 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.440 things are connected. I think put a lot of fear 340 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:21.039 in a lot of parents' minds, particularly conservative minds, a 341 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:24.920 feeling of sort of lack of control, right, whether it's 342 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:27.200 I can't send my kid or I don't like my 343 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.359 kid wearing a mask at school, and like all these 344 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:31.839 rules that were put in place, and then yes, all 345 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:35.559 this fear about like is are the is what it 346 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:38.319 being taught taught at school is sort of getting ahead 347 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.319 or you know, going too far from what I'm comfortable with. 348 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.039 And I think that message of you can have some 349 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.160 more control, Like there was a lot of even just 350 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:50.960 like in my with my kids in my public schools, 351 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.799 the when we all sort of came back to school, 352 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:59.440 there was all this sort of nervousness among parents about 353 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:01.240 like what kind of the control they have over their 354 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:05.000 kids' education and what they can do, and whether that's 355 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:08.359 the motivating factor for Abbot and some of these other 356 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:10.880 folks are not. It's you know, it's the old raw 357 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.359 and manual quote don't let a good crisis go to waste. 358 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:17.200 And this has created an opportunity like never before for 359 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:18.240 this to finally pass. 360 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:20.839 The money helps too, I mean talking about people, right, 361 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:23.119 jeff yas right. I think he correct me if I'm wrong. 362 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:26.480 The biggest single political donation and is in state history 363 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.000 with the I think when he made the six or 364 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.799 seven million dollar donation years ago, right, so you know, 365 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:32.920 make no mistake. I mean you talk about the kind 366 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:35.440 of national connection this has been brewing for for for 367 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:37.920 decades in the making, where you know, I read a 368 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:40.359 profile from Jeffs in Philadelphia, and it was just really 369 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:42.680 interesting that he seems to be very kind of very 370 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:44.519 private person, so for him to do kind of an 371 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:47.319 extended interview was really interesting. But he just talked about 372 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.400 kind of you know, this mindset of you know, if 373 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:53.920 public schools aren't you know, serving children in the way 374 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.519 you know that he thinks is you know best per se, 375 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:57.640 then they should shut down. 376 00:18:57.680 --> 00:18:57.839 Right. 377 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.680 So you know these are people you know, Abbit has 378 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.920 a lot of a reason, you know, you know from 379 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:06.680 before REPUBLICA and US, you know, we did some good 380 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:08.920 reporting on this, you know before you know, before this 381 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.119 wasn't really an issue that Governor Abbitt was, you know, 382 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:13.119 it was top of mind for him, right, but then 383 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.000 you start to see more of those dollars pour in, 384 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:18.640 and you know, you make whatever connections you will from that, 385 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:21.720 but it certainly plays a huge factor and kind of 386 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:24.960 you know, this rising to the top of kind of 387 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:26.039 the priority list for. 388 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:26.880 A lot of these politicians. 389 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:28.759 I just want to put a fine point on this, 390 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.279 but Governor Abbot has always been an advocate for vouchers. 391 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.240 He's been at those school choice rallies since twenty fifteen 392 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:39.839 when he was so since he was elected governor, he 393 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.039 has not been as vocal. Obviously, we talked about this 394 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:42.880 in theory. 395 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:43.559 It hasn't been his. 396 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:46.880 Top priority in seventeen, seventeen, or nineteen or even twenty one. 397 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:48.319 It really became an issue in twenty three. 398 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:50.440 And I think it's to your point, Matthew, which is 399 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.720 that the pandemic put a lot of nervousness in a 400 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:56.319 lot of parents. There also was legislation passed in a 401 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:00.640