1
00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,080
Speaker 1: Today's episode of the trip Cast is sponsored by the

2
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:13,000
Coalition of Education Funding and Raise your Hand Texas. Hello

3
00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,960
and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for February eighteenth,

4
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,359
twenty twenty five. I am Matthew Watkins, editor in chief

5
00:00:20,399 --> 00:00:23,160
of the Texas Tribune, and as usual, we are joined

6
00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:25,719
by politics reporter James Bergon.

7
00:00:26,359 --> 00:00:27,719
Speaker 2: Welcome back, Matthew, Thank you.

8
00:00:27,879 --> 00:00:30,199
Speaker 1: I'm glad to be back. And also you know her

9
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,640
as the stephen A. Smith of the Texas Tribune. Eleanor Cleveanov.

10
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,399
Speaker 3: Hello, My sports knowledge is bested only by my politics knowledge.

11
00:00:38,399 --> 00:00:40,759
Speaker 1: I go away for two weeks and it's just nothing

12
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,039
but hot sports takes the entire time.

13
00:00:43,079 --> 00:00:44,000
Speaker 2: I can't believe it.

14
00:00:44,119 --> 00:00:45,679
Speaker 3: This is as shocking to me as it is to

15
00:00:45,679 --> 00:00:46,280
everyone else.

16
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,960
Speaker 1: And our special guest this week is our K through

17
00:00:52,039 --> 00:00:54,840
twelve education reporter Jadan Edison. Hey, Jaden, thanks for having me.

18
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,560
Glad to be here, Glad to have you here. So

19
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,920
let's talk about what happened this week. Jaden is here.

20
00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,519
We're going to talk about the hot ticket item of

21
00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,319
the legislative session, school choice school vouchers, whatever you want

22
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,280
to call it. But first let's just look you know.

23
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,000
I think catching up on something we've been looking forward

24
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,000
to for a few weeks was the announcement of House

25
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,840
committee assignments in the State House. Dustin Burrow's doing this

26
00:01:21,879 --> 00:01:24,480
for the first time. People watching that to get a

27
00:01:24,519 --> 00:01:27,239
little bit of a sense of what kind of leader

28
00:01:27,359 --> 00:01:30,120
he would be. James, you covered that story. What did

29
00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:31,239
you see?

30
00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:31,799
Speaker 2: I did well?

31
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,920
Speaker 4: He followed through on the new rules to not appoint

32
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,120
any new Democratic chairs. It's all Republican chairs, and that

33
00:01:39,239 --> 00:01:41,159
of course was a big topic of conversation in the

34
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,760
primaries and in the speakers race. He also left in

35
00:01:45,799 --> 00:01:50,519
place a lot of Feelin's team. A lot of senior

36
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:56,400
lawmakers are either keeping their previous chairmanships like Greg bond

37
00:01:56,439 --> 00:02:00,200
And on Appropriations, Morgan Meyer on Ways and Means, or

38
00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:04,680
they got moved around to other very important committees like

39
00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:07,400
Todd Hunters back on Calendars. Ken King moved up to

40
00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:10,360
State Affairs. That's a big promotion for him, and also

41
00:02:10,439 --> 00:02:13,639
got some good new blood in there. Lacey Hull, I

42
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,840
think is worth noting she's the third term lawmaker from Houston,

43
00:02:18,319 --> 00:02:21,879
really went to bat for Burrows and gave a fiery

44
00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,599
nominating speech for him, and stuck with him even when

45
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,599
she was being targeted. So she's heading a committee now.

46
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,439
Cole Hefner also heading a committee for the first time,

47
00:02:31,479 --> 00:02:34,280
like a standing committee for the first time. So, you know,

48
00:02:34,479 --> 00:02:37,199
it was interesting to see. I was interested to see

49
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,439
how he would manage this. There's always the potential for

50
00:02:40,719 --> 00:02:43,120
the speaker to go after people who did not support

51
00:02:43,199 --> 00:02:46,240
him and throw sharp elbows. He didn't do that so much.

52
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,759
He kind of gave his opponents, you know, subcommittee chairmanships.

53
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,400
He gave John Smithy a chairmanship. He was in the

54
00:02:52,479 --> 00:02:56,520
running for the gavel as well. So from my read,

55
00:02:56,599 --> 00:02:59,159
he's sort of kept everyone happy. I didn't see anybody

56
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:04,520
super upset about the committee appointments, and so he's off

57
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,919
to a decent start. He's got everybody calm down, and

58
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,520
now that we've got committee appointments, we can start moving

59
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,280
bills through the legislative process.

60
00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,919
Speaker 1: On the House side, it seems like the early reports

61
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,319
on Burrows seems to be and maybe this is because

62
00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,879
this is possible because you know, we're not moving legislation yet,

63
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,560
we're not having to make the toughest choices. But it

64
00:03:28,599 --> 00:03:33,960
seems to be an idea of you know, people kind

65
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,120
of were watching him with knives out, ready to go

66
00:03:36,199 --> 00:03:38,800
after him, ready to attack, and he has been trying

67
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,240
to sort of mend those fences, whether it's with the governor,

68
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,280
the lieutenant governor, or even members of the House, people

69
00:03:44,439 --> 00:03:45,400
who voted against him.

70
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,199
Speaker 2: Would you agree with that.

71
00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think also, I mean the reality

72
00:03:48,319 --> 00:03:50,759
is that he's a very conservative guy. No matter how

73
00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:53,599
his opponents try to paint him during the speaker race,

74
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,360
he's a pretty super conservative guy. He's much more conservative

75
00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,439
than a Speaker Feeling. Speaker Feeling has admitted that he

76
00:04:02,599 --> 00:04:05,039
told Evan Smith that I'd a talk at the LBJ school,

77
00:04:06,159 --> 00:04:08,759
so he was he was going to be a conservative guy.

78
00:04:08,919 --> 00:04:13,360
And I think he's going to pass conservative legislation. And

79
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,439
you know, he's doing the right things. He's starting right

80
00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,560
on time at ten am every day, or whenever they

81
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,480
say they're going to gabble in, he gabbles in.

82
00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:22,120
Speaker 2: He's making you happy for that.

83
00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 4: He's trying to he's trying to make sure that like

84
00:04:24,399 --> 00:04:27,079
things are running on time so that he avoids that criticism.

85
00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:28,680
Speaker 2: And you know, he's a savvy operator.

86
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,000
Speaker 4: We wrote a couple of stories about him and his

87
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,040
relationship with Dan Patrick. His relationship with Governor Abbott. He's

88
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,240
a conservative guy, he's a savvy operator. He's trying to

89
00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,480
keep everybody happy. But you know, I think you talked

90
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,879
about people having their knives out. He's got his own knives.

91
00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,800
He is, uh, he's he's a tough player in the legislature.

92
00:04:47,879 --> 00:04:49,560
So I think he's ready for all this stuff.

93
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,639
Speaker 3: I mean, we've talked about this before, right but like

94
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,360
in these fights within the Republican Party in Texas, we

95
00:04:54,399 --> 00:04:59,839
are again talking about like pretty you know, conservative against conservative.

96
00:04:59,879 --> 00:05:02,879
So the gap between you know, Burrows and some of

97
00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,720
his critics on the right is not massive ideologically, so

98
00:05:07,079 --> 00:05:09,240
he's got, you know, a chance. But like you said,

99
00:05:09,399 --> 00:05:11,959
nothing's moving yet. So right now, it's easy to start

100
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,040
at ten am and have everybody be friends.

101
00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:17,879
Speaker 4: And the pressure will start now depending on how quickly

102
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,600
the Voucher's bill moves and then some of the other

103
00:05:20,879 --> 00:05:24,639
Senate priorities, because Lieutenant Governor Patrick's already saying we're not

104
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,839
leaving without these these bills to change how bail works

105
00:05:28,879 --> 00:05:32,120
here in the state. We're going to go to special sessions.

106
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,240
So unless those things start moving through the process, I

107
00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,040
think he's going to start seeing some pressure here.

108
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,920
Speaker 2: And rightfully. So, I mean they've got they've got to

109
00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:40,920
get going right right.

110
00:05:41,639 --> 00:05:44,920
Speaker 1: Well, one thing that they could get going on pretty

111
00:05:44,959 --> 00:05:49,519
quickly here is a piece of legislation to use state

112
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,000
tax dollars to help parents pay for their private school

113
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,800
or homeschooling expenses. This has been kind of amazingly the

114
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,319
dominant political issue in Texas, particularly around the Capitol for

115
00:06:02,399 --> 00:06:06,839
more than two years now. There's the individual kind of

116
00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:09,800
fight over this, which Abbott has sort of staked his

117
00:06:09,959 --> 00:06:14,439
claim on and has made his top legislative issue at least.

118
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,079
He spends a lot of energy on the border as well,

119
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,040
but has been able to kind of take action on

120
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:25,000
that independent of the legislature. And this has been such

121
00:06:25,079 --> 00:06:27,920
an issue that it has really in these past two

122
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,720
years not just been a issue of substance in politics

123
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,839
in terms of policy, but also really serve to reshape

124
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,519
the Texas legislature in a lot of different ways that

125
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,839
we can really go into. Jaden is here to talk

126
00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:47,199
about that with us, and I want to start right

127
00:06:47,319 --> 00:06:50,800
by saying where we stand. So the Senate has passed

128
00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:53,720
SB two already. This is what we are calling the

129
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,040
school Voucher's Bill. It is now time for the House

130
00:06:58,079 --> 00:07:02,199
to take it up. Dustin Burrough aforementioned Dustin Burrows appeared

131
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:07,480
on stage with Greg Abbott over the Long weekend over

132
00:07:07,519 --> 00:07:10,839
the holiday weekend, essentially saying, you know, we're going to

133
00:07:10,879 --> 00:07:14,240
introduce a measure in the House and we're going to

134
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,680
move on that and it will pass as well. So

135
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,759
we're looking at a situation we can kind of get

136
00:07:18,759 --> 00:07:21,240
into whether we all believe that to be true or not.

137
00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:24,279
There are some doubters at least still in that realm.

138
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,439
But Jaden, I want to just start by having you

139
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,639
sort of explain to us what this bill would actually do.

140
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,040
Let's start with SB two, that's the one that has

141
00:07:35,079 --> 00:07:38,240
passed the Senate. Tell us what this program is, what

142
00:07:38,279 --> 00:07:39,399
it would mean for the state.

143
00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,879
Speaker 5: Right, Well, it only took I did the math last week.

144
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,079
It took the Senate twenty two days from the start

145
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,600
of the session to pass the bill. So that speaks

146
00:07:47,639 --> 00:07:50,360
to someone of the urgency that they've tried to move with.

147
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,519
But particularly this bill is really interesting, right. I think

148
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,759
the premise of it is, you know, allowing the use

149
00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,839
of a tend to up to right now, the basis

150
00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:03,000
to thousand dollars per student per year. For a family

151
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,879
to be able to, you know, obviously use taxpayer dollars

152
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,600
to fund their children's private school tuition through you know,

153
00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:12,879
what we all know is education savings accounts, right other

154
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:14,920
you know, people in education policies fas think of that

155
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,279
is like it's basically like a voucher plus system, right

156
00:08:17,319 --> 00:08:20,560
where you know, there are particulars about you know how

157
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,480
you know families you know receive the money, but for

158
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,519
all intents and purposes, you know, they're they're the same, right.

159
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,519
And so that's the base. And then that has additional

160
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:35,000
allocations for for students with disabilities and also sets aside

161
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,240
roughly about two thousand dollars per year per student for

162
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,559
homeschooling families, right. And so that's to a piece a

163
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,440
lot of the homeschooling you know, groups who in recent

164
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:44,960
years have come out and kind of wanted to be

165
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,080
included in these programs.

166
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,559
Speaker 2: So that's the base of it.

167
00:08:48,639 --> 00:08:50,480
Speaker 5: Where I found where I found it really interesting, and

168
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,360
we're kind of a lot of my attention is kind

169
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,200
of right now is you know, there are certain provisions

170
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,480
in the bill that anticipates perhaps you know, a scenario

171
00:08:59,639 --> 00:09:03,039
where if demandate exceeds funding, then now we have to

172
00:09:03,039 --> 00:09:05,720
figure out kind of who to prioritize, right, And the

173
00:09:05,759 --> 00:09:08,600
way the bill is currently structured is they would prioritize

174
00:09:08,639 --> 00:09:12,080
the overwhelming majority of those spots for students from two groups, right,

175
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,960
students with disabilities and then students who come from households,

176
00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:21,399
you know, who live at or below five hundred percent

177
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:22,759
of the federal poverty line.

178
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:23,039
Speaker 2: Right.

179
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,559
Speaker 5: Where that gets really interesting is that federal poverty that

180
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,200
that using that definition, which they define as a low

181
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,960
income household would mean families up to around roughly one

182
00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:35,559
hundred and sixty thousand dollars a year, depending on if

183
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,480
you use the twenty four guidelines or the twenty five guidelines, right,

184
00:09:38,879 --> 00:09:40,679
And so that's really interesting, and this created this kind

185
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,399
of tension in the you know, I would say more

186
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,159
so obviously from the Democrats. This has been a huge

187
00:09:45,159 --> 00:09:47,639
talking point on the floor and then the public hearing

188
00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,360
at the committee level of if this is a program

189
00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:53,279
that's going to priory, you know, prioritize students from low

190
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,879
income families and students with disabilities, and you're creating a

191
00:09:56,879 --> 00:10:00,399
prioritization system where students on the wealth you're in of

192
00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:03,879
a spectrum, you know, are basically and you know, treated

193
00:10:03,919 --> 00:10:06,679
the same as a family who is on free or

194
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,559
reduced lunch, for example, which is significantly you know, uh lower,

195
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,519
that's that's about one hundred and thirty to one hundred

196
00:10:12,519 --> 00:10:14,759
and eighty five percent of federal poverty, right, so significantly

197
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,440
lower for a household of for you know, then how

198
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,039
are we how is it that we're pushing this in

199
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,440
the name of kind of low income families and students

200
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,159
with disability. So that's been the real tension. But I

201
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,759
will say that generalize general that generalizes kind of what

202
00:10:27,799 --> 00:10:29,840
the bill is. And then obviously, you know, there's conversations

203
00:10:29,879 --> 00:10:33,559
about accountability. You know, it does require, for example, that

204
00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:36,200
participating in private schools have to take what's known as

205
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,600
a nationally norm reference test, so that's basically the SAT

206
00:10:39,799 --> 00:10:42,399
or the ACT, right, but no requirement they take the STAR.

207
00:10:42,759 --> 00:10:45,039
And so that's also been kind of a point of contention,

208
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,559
as you know, public schools are saying we wanted even

209
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,600
playing field. You're going to you know, implement this program,

210
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,559
and so those are some of the I can pause here,

211
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,759
but that's kind of generally speaking, a lot of the

212
00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:56,120
things that folks are talking about right now.

213
00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,200
Speaker 1: I want to get into some of the details of

214
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,080
that some of the criticisms of this, but let so

215
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,399
it's first just sort of take a step back, James

216
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,919
and tell me make the case for me as it

217
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,519
has been made by proponents, you know, Avid in particular

218
00:11:09,639 --> 00:11:11,360
of why the state needs this.

219
00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 4: Well, I think the main argument, and Jayden you can

220
00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,799
jump in, but I think they are saying that they

221
00:11:18,799 --> 00:11:23,440
are upset with public schools, particularly public schools that are

222
00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,679
in low income areas, that have not been as successful

223
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,480
as they could be for many, many years, and they're

224
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,879
saying those kids should be able to have options to

225
00:11:32,919 --> 00:11:37,559
go to other schools, including private schools, and that really

226
00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:41,000
any parent should be able to take their kid out

227
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,840
of their school that they're zoned to or that they

228
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,279
go to that's paid by public dollars and take that

229
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:52,120
money that they pay into the state and spend it

230
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,080
on the school of their choice.

231
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,759
Speaker 2: That I think is the argument.

232
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,480
Speaker 4: Of course, private school a lot more expensive than the

233
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,559
ten dollars ten thousand dollars.

234
00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:05,639
Speaker 2: Voucher that they are going to get, but that that

235
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:06,399
is a proposal.

236
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it was interesting I was watching last night.

237
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,480
Governor Abbot was in San Antonio, on the stage at

238
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,159
a Christian private school out there out that way. He

239
00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:20,279
shared the stage with Dustin Borough Speaker Boroughs and also

240
00:12:21,039 --> 00:12:23,240
public education share Brad Buckley, and so it was really

241
00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:25,279
those were also interested to tune in to see because

242
00:12:25,279 --> 00:12:26,519
it was the first time kind of I've been able

243
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,399
to see that dynamic on the same I was wondering

244
00:12:29,399 --> 00:12:31,080
if they threw out any nuggets. You know, they're pretty

245
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,120
upfront sometimes in those kind of events where they talk

246
00:12:33,159 --> 00:12:35,720
about things that are kind of forthcoming. But one of

247
00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,120
the main takeaways that that that was really interesting to

248
00:12:38,159 --> 00:12:41,879
me is you know, uh, you know, Governor Abbot talked

249
00:12:41,879 --> 00:12:45,000
a little bit about kind of you know, frustration with

250
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,759
you know, and what a lot of conservatives have deemed

251
00:12:47,879 --> 00:12:50,279
kind of quote unquote you know left wing and doctrine nation,

252
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,519
you know, of schools. You know, he cited you know,

253
00:12:52,879 --> 00:12:56,519
you know recent you know news that came out about uh,

254
00:12:56,639 --> 00:12:58,799
you know, a situation at in bell Or High School

255
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,840
where in Houston where basically you know, there was you know,

256
00:13:03,039 --> 00:13:06,759
teachers who were you know, basically abiding by a student's

257
00:13:06,759 --> 00:13:10,600
request to you know use different you know pronouns or

258
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,840
something along those lines and whatnot. And he cited that

259
00:13:13,919 --> 00:13:17,399
is an example of kind of the problems that he

260
00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:21,960
sees within public schools that he sees kind of this

261
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,840
voucher program as a solution to.

262
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:25,159
Speaker 2: Right.

263
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,679
Speaker 5: So I said to say, is yeah, right, we've heard

264
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,799
a lot about kind of academic outcomes and we know,

265
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,000
naturally right, like public schools, I mean schools are people

266
00:13:34,039 --> 00:13:37,279
are struggling to rebound from you know, the brunt of

267
00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:41,879
the COVID nineteen pandemic. But making there's there's no secret

268
00:13:41,919 --> 00:13:43,919
about it that this this also has to do with

269
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,120
kind of overall frustration with the direction you know, you know,

270
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,360
this feeling and I think a lot you know, after

271
00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:51,320
George Floyd's murder, you saw a lot of promises from

272
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,960
these public institutions that came out, including public schools, We're

273
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:55,399
going to do better. Right, we need to do better

274
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,919
in areas of diversity, equity and inclusion.

275
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:58,159
Speaker 2: Right.

276
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,360
Speaker 5: And in my view, right this movement in some ways right,

277
00:14:02,399 --> 00:14:04,080
And I think the governor's frame of this way is

278
00:14:04,159 --> 00:14:06,679
kind of pushed back to that's gone too far, right,

279
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,799
And so you know, this is a solution that he sees,

280
00:14:10,039 --> 00:14:11,919
you know, to being able to push back and to

281
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,559
you know, offer and he's at a Christian school, you know,

282
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,639
So this is all happened at the same time where

283
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:20,279
we're seeing state officials push for more you know, you know,

284
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,840
religious components, Christianity in particular in public schools. But also

285
00:14:23,919 --> 00:14:26,559
he's making a lot of these kind of talking points,

286
00:14:26,759 --> 00:14:29,080
you know, in the background of schools that have a

287
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,720
particular Christian focus. So a lot of couple interesting dynamics.

288
00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:33,120
That's that's also, I.

289
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,639
Speaker 4: Mean, that is a political argument that sort of is uh,

290
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,080
it's it's a very smart political argument by proponents to

291
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,960
make d EI the bad guy, the boogeyman. But I

292
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,879
mean the other thing is that some private institutions that

293
00:14:49,919 --> 00:14:53,559
would benefit from this also have DEI programs and they

294
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,600
have DEI coordinators, right. But this is I just want

295
00:14:57,639 --> 00:14:59,120
to be clear about this. This is like more of

296
00:14:59,159 --> 00:15:03,759
a political talking point rather than what the original intense

297
00:15:04,799 --> 00:15:07,440
I guess quote unquote was, which was to have like

298
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,559
better academic outcomes for kids. There there's now a conversation

299
00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:16,360
about de EI, the DEI boogeyman and indoctrinating kids as

300
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,919
opposed to like what the actual academic outcomes are and

301
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,639
what would improve academic outcomes for kids.

302
00:15:23,039 --> 00:15:25,120
Speaker 2: It's a smart I mean it's a smart political point.

303
00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:27,679
Speaker 3: I mean this has been like a long like it's

304
00:15:27,759 --> 00:15:31,039
Bouchers and getting public funding into private schools has been

305
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,000
like a longstanding conservative issue that has taken different forms

306
00:15:35,039 --> 00:15:38,600
throughout like going back to you know when we started

307
00:15:38,679 --> 00:15:41,200
sort of seeing schools get integrated after Brown view board

308
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,960
of education, Like this has taken different forms, that has

309
00:15:44,279 --> 00:15:48,840
had different political underpinnings, you know, anti DEI last session,

310
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,279
I think a lot of the conversation and still now

311
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,639
but was around you know, sort of the boogeyman of

312
00:15:54,759 --> 00:15:57,679
or the sort of talking point of parents' rights and

313
00:15:57,799 --> 00:15:59,759
parents have, you know, the right to sort of direct

314
00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:02,759
their children's education and these other things that we see,

315
00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:06,480
you know, political catchphrases like you said, smart political advertising

316
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,279
of an issue that has taken different forms, but it's

317
00:16:09,279 --> 00:16:10,600
been a priority nonetheless.

318
00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:12,519
Speaker 4: But if a teacher at a public school is a

319
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:15,120
transgender person and they're teaching your kid math, and your

320
00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:18,120
kid learns math one way or the other, like it really,

321
00:16:18,559 --> 00:16:20,279
I mean it doesn't matter, right if we're just talking

322
00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:23,080
about academic outcomes. But what they don't like is the

323
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,639
social aspect of this, the DEI part of this.

324
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:31,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the pandemic may have really

325
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,799
changed this conversation, right, because, as you point out, this

326
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,879
has been something people have been advocating for a long time.

327
00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:38,559
I mean, the founding of the Texas Public Policy Foundation,

328
00:16:38,679 --> 00:16:40,879
the major kind of think tank in this state, dates

329
00:16:40,919 --> 00:16:43,519
back to the eighties and this was really the main

330
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,120
issue of the person who founded it. And you know,

331
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,759
I've been here long enough here covering the capital, paying

332
00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:51,840
attention to the capital to be able to remember those

333
00:16:51,879 --> 00:16:55,360
sort of every two years, those rallies on the capital steps,

334
00:16:55,399 --> 00:16:59,240
people wearing yellow scarves calling for school choice, and they

335
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,399
would pass the same it and wouldn't really go anywhere.

336
00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:05,759
And I think, you know, the pandemic and the murder

337
00:17:05,799 --> 00:17:09,519
of George Floyd, which in many ways, you know the

338
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,279
social movement that arose after that. Many ways those two

339
00:17:13,279 --> 00:17:16,440
things are connected. I think put a lot of fear

340
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,039
in a lot of parents' minds, particularly conservative minds, a

341
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,920
feeling of sort of lack of control, right, whether it's

342
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,200
I can't send my kid or I don't like my

343
00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:29,359
kid wearing a mask at school, and like all these

344
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,839
rules that were put in place, and then yes, all

345
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,559
this fear about like is are the is what it

346
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,319
being taught taught at school is sort of getting ahead

347
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,319
or you know, going too far from what I'm comfortable with.

348
00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:45,039
And I think that message of you can have some

349
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,160
more control, Like there was a lot of even just

350
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,960
like in my with my kids in my public schools,

351
00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:53,799
the when we all sort of came back to school,

352
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,440
there was all this sort of nervousness among parents about

353
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,240
like what kind of the control they have over their

354
00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:05,000
kids' education and what they can do, and whether that's

355
00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:08,359
the motivating factor for Abbot and some of these other

356
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,880
folks are not. It's you know, it's the old raw

357
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,359
and manual quote don't let a good crisis go to waste.

358
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,200
And this has created an opportunity like never before for

359
00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:18,240
this to finally pass.

360
00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:20,839
Speaker 5: The money helps too, I mean talking about people, right,

361
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,119
jeff yas right. I think he correct me if I'm wrong.

362
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,480
The biggest single political donation and is in state history

363
00:18:26,519 --> 00:18:28,000
with the I think when he made the six or

364
00:18:28,039 --> 00:18:30,799
seven million dollar donation years ago, right, so you know,

365
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,920
make no mistake. I mean you talk about the kind

366
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,440
of national connection this has been brewing for for for

367
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,920
decades in the making, where you know, I read a

368
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,359
profile from Jeffs in Philadelphia, and it was just really

369
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,680
interesting that he seems to be very kind of very

370
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,519
private person, so for him to do kind of an

371
00:18:44,519 --> 00:18:47,319
extended interview was really interesting. But he just talked about

372
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,400
kind of you know, this mindset of you know, if

373
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,920
public schools aren't you know, serving children in the way

374
00:18:54,039 --> 00:18:56,519
you know that he thinks is you know best per se,

375
00:18:56,599 --> 00:18:57,640
then they should shut down.

376
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:57,839
Speaker 2: Right.

377
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 5: So you know these are people you know, Abbit has

378
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,920
a lot of a reason, you know, you know from

379
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,680
before REPUBLICA and US, you know, we did some good

380
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,920
reporting on this, you know before you know, before this

381
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,119
wasn't really an issue that Governor Abbitt was, you know,

382
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,119
it was top of mind for him, right, but then

383
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,000
you start to see more of those dollars pour in,

384
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,640
and you know, you make whatever connections you will from that,

385
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,720
but it certainly plays a huge factor and kind of

386
00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:24,960
you know, this rising to the top of kind of

387
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,039
the priority list for.

388
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:26,880
Speaker 2: A lot of these politicians.

389
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,759
Speaker 4: I just want to put a fine point on this,

390
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:32,279
but Governor Abbot has always been an advocate for vouchers.

391
00:19:32,279 --> 00:19:35,240
He's been at those school choice rallies since twenty fifteen

392
00:19:35,279 --> 00:19:39,839
when he was so since he was elected governor, he

393
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,039
has not been as vocal. Obviously, we talked about this

394
00:19:42,079 --> 00:19:42,880
in theory.

395
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:43,559
Speaker 2: It hasn't been his.

396
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:46,880
Speaker 4: Top priority in seventeen, seventeen, or nineteen or even twenty one.

397
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,319
Speaker 2: It really became an issue in twenty three.

398
00:19:48,319 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 4: And I think it's to your point, Matthew, which is

399
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,720
that the pandemic put a lot of nervousness in a

400
00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:56,319
lot of parents. There also was legislation passed in a

401
00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,640
lot of other states, and so then the school choice

402
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,160
advocates are saying, well, how come we can't get it

403
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,559
done here in Texas, which is they like to argue

404
00:20:05,599 --> 00:20:08,200
the most conservative state. So that puts pressure on Abbot,

405
00:20:08,319 --> 00:20:11,319
it puts pressure on the state legislature, and now we're

406
00:20:11,319 --> 00:20:14,599
seeing pressure from national figures like Elon Musk and Donald

407
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,400
Trump to get this done. But that's a little bit

408
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,359
of like sort of the context around this.

409
00:20:19,759 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 3: I was like, we as you mentioned, pro Public and

410
00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:24,160
the Texas Tribune has done a lot of reporting on

411
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,680
the voucher fight, and we had a story I think

412
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,960
last year that was like, Texas is the largest GOP

413
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,400
state to not pass about your program, which is also

414
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,440
just funny because we're just the largest GOP state. So

415
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,279
the minute we do pass it, we become the largest

416
00:20:36,279 --> 00:20:39,000
state to have done it. But yeah, we've been a holdout,

417
00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:43,240
and I think that's you know, we've been the crown jewel.

418
00:20:43,279 --> 00:20:43,920
That's the term thing.

419
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:44,640
Speaker 2: I will tell you.

420
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 1: It's interesting, I mean, because there are a lot of

421
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,319
states that have passed this. I was talking with someone

422
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,279
a few moving Pennsylvania and yeah, it will Vermont.

423
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:51,599
Speaker 2: You know.

424
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,039
Speaker 1: I was talking to someone in Vermont, a you know,

425
00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:57,359
the state of Bernie Sanders, right, and talking about how

426
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,200
this was the dominant issue in Texas, and they were

427
00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:03,640
just kind of like, it is crazy to me that

428
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,480
Texas has not passed this, Vermont has this measure. So,

429
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,039
you know, that's been an interesting thing to watch as well. Jaden,

430
00:21:10,079 --> 00:21:12,599
you said the money has affected this. I actually thought

431
00:21:12,599 --> 00:21:14,960
you were going to go in a different direction with that,

432
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,279
because another way that this has been made possible is

433
00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:21,359
because the state has a lot of money to spend, right,

434
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,640
And one of the best strongest political arguments against this

435
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,680
is that it's going to take money away from public schools.

436
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,920
But what we've had these past two legislative sessions is

437
00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:34,440
enough money in the surplus to be able to say,

438
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,759
we're not going to touch your funding formulas, but we

439
00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:40,599
are going to bring in this extra pot of money

440
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,319
that will go towards supporting these measures. But there's been

441
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,079
a pretty big back and forth in recent days and

442
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,559
weeks among particularly between Greg Abbott and Democrats about whether

443
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:59,400
this bill SB two does or does not defund public schools.

444
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,599
Can you help help us sort of navigate this issue

445
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,680
and in the sides of both sides here.

446
00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, this is this is one of the

447
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,920
things I find really interesting, right, It at a very

448
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,960
basic of I'll start here, right, public schools in Texas

449
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,119
are primarily funded by attendance. So if you're just basically

450
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,440
looking at if you look at the simple fact of

451
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,240
there are and that will be probably if this program passes,

452
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,960
they're going to be public school students who leave their

453
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,440
public school to attend a private school under this particular program,

454
00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:32,079
then by definitely, I mean technically public schools are going

455
00:22:32,079 --> 00:22:34,680
to lose money. And if you look at the kind

456
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,079
of analysis by the Legislative Budget Board, I believe who

457
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,960
does the analyzes on these they you know, in collaboration

458
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,240
with the TEA. I believe they they look at they

459
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,920
make predictions on kind of generally speaking, how many students

460
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,559
you know, may leave, right, And it's in the I

461
00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:49,160
think it's maybe in the hundreds of thousand, a couple

462
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,359
hundred thousand or so, as they predicted the first year,

463
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,759
so I have to fact check myself, but nonetheless, a

464
00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:56,880
considerable number of public school students who will leave to go.

465
00:22:57,039 --> 00:23:00,359
So by that definition, yes, I think, you know, it's

466
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,440
a fact that public schools will lose out on money.

467
00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:06,839
Now there's the second part, which is what Governor Abbott

468
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,839
is kind of referencing, is, yes, there's a you know,

469
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,079
a pot of money, you know, you know the school

470
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,799
that public schools, you know that funds public schools. And

471
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,599
what they're saying is that we're pulling this from the

472
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,039
you know, a different you know, pot of money. And

473
00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:23,839
so he's basically made the point he talked about this

474
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,960
last night too, is basically you're saying that, you know,

475
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,559
we fund infrastructure that's pulling from public schools, right, And

476
00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:31,960
that's not the case. But the surplus becomes really interesting.

477
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,440
You was just talking to another reporter about this too.

478
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,279
It's like, how long is this state going to be operating?

479
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,759
You know, where you have all of these additional dollars

480
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:44,880
available to you, right from a surfplus standpoint, right, like

481
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,480
the program as predicted by the budget Board talks about

482
00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:51,880
the cost of this program soaring to I think more

483
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,000
than four and a half billion dollars by the year

484
00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:57,759
twenty thirty, right, And so are you able to maintain that?

485
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,839
We'll also keeping up with the needs of public schools,

486
00:24:01,839 --> 00:24:04,359
which are constitutionally obligated to fund, and that also includes

487
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,160
you know, students with disabilities and special education services, all

488
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,839
these things at the state historically has already struggled to fund, right,

489
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,519
And so I think that's kind of it. And then

490
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,039
you get to kind of you know, the government recently,

491
00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:18,039
it's been really interesting to see him. He and his

492
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,279
social media team have obviously been very aware of some

493
00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:24,160
of these talking points because he's been responding directly to

494
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,079
lawmakers and advocates and you know about some of the

495
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,480
funding talking points. I think a lot of the frustration

496
00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:34,920
from a lot of the public school advocates, you know,

497
00:24:35,559 --> 00:24:38,079
and the you know folks who are you know, pushing

498
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,519
against this program has to do with the fact that

499
00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:43,000
there was I think it was the big omnibus House

500
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:45,680
bill that didn't pass in twenty twenty three, you know,

501
00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:48,599
had what seven billion dollars in new funds attached to

502
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,559
it that didn't pass, and a part of that would

503
00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:53,440
have been a raise to the base amount of money

504
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,000
that schools will see per student. And since then, in

505
00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:58,079
the last couple of years, we've seen you know, school

506
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,119
closures like to deficits at high rates, right, We've seen

507
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:05,160
I mean, you know, there's been you know cuts to

508
00:25:05,519 --> 00:25:08,880
you know, federal funding as it relates to special education services. Right,

509
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,680
So there are all these things going on. So hopefully

510
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,839
that gets to the specific answer to your question. But

511
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,759
I just think it's a sore. There's truth to each

512
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:21,319
thing if you look at it, you know, a little

513
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:22,039
bit more deeply.

514
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: But go ahead, go ahead.

515
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 5: So no, I was gonna say, But to me, I

516
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,000
always go back to the fact that if you just

517
00:25:28,079 --> 00:25:30,480
look at the basic fact that you know, public schools

518
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,759
are funded by this metric. This metric is going to

519
00:25:32,839 --> 00:25:36,160
drastically change if public school students leave to go to

520
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,960
private school and so by definition you're going to have

521
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,359
public schools that lose out on additional funding.

522
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 4: But also the way that they're funding it. The argument

523
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,440
is like, okay, just to make it real simple. If

524
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,759
the state has ten dollars to give out, right, and

525
00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:50,200
they're giving out four dollars to public schools right now,

526
00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:52,599
the governor is basically saying, we're going to keep giving

527
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,680
them four dollars, but we're also going to give one

528
00:25:54,759 --> 00:25:58,319
dollar to private school vouchers. Right, So that's a total

529
00:25:58,319 --> 00:26:02,079
of five dollars for education, but that's also a dollar

530
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,279
extra that could have gone to public education five. So

531
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,839
I just want to be like really intellectually honest about

532
00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:10,359
what we're discussing here, because you can spend it however

533
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,599
way you want it, Like the governor's team is obviously

534
00:26:12,599 --> 00:26:15,480
spending his way, Democrats and public school advocates are going

535
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,880
to spend their way. But I want to be honest

536
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,480
for the audience about like the funding and.

537
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 5: Like how how we're talking about it, and like they

538
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,160
can make people can make up their minds.

539
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 2: About it, but that that is essentially what is happenings.

540
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: There's a finite amount of dollars, a.

541
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 4: Finite amount of dollars, and there's a decision being made

542
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,599
by the legislature and the governor on how that money

543
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,839
is going to be spent, and it will affect public

544
00:26:36,839 --> 00:26:39,000
schools and private schools one way or the other.

545
00:26:39,079 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 5: And there's a constitutional obligation to make sure that public

546
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,880
schools are adequately funded, right, And so that's part of it.

547
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,599
Is like, you know, regardless, you know, if you're saying

548
00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:49,359
that you're you're putting you know, more money into something

549
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,440
that's educational related, the question becomes, why can't that go

550
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:56,240
into public schools? You know, are struggling in many different ways.

551
00:26:56,319 --> 00:27:00,480
But I also think the interesting point is that everybody

552
00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:03,119
seems to be operating from a different set of facts. Right,

553
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,279
Like if you talk to the governor's office, they're going

554
00:27:05,319 --> 00:27:08,039
to tell you, well, we funded you know, public schools

555
00:27:08,079 --> 00:27:10,079
provide more money than we ever have in history, right,

556
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,720
and the Statesman just there, you know, some really good

557
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,519
reporting on this, and we've been talking about this as well.

558
00:27:13,559 --> 00:27:16,160
Here is you know, when you adjust that for inflation,

559
00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:18,960
it tells a completely different story. And so even the

560
00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:23,960
everybody seems to be operating from it exactly right. You know, Texas,

561
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,839
when it comes to per student funding, you know, Rakes,

562
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,079
I don't have a number on top of my head,

563
00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:29,759
but we're really low. And when it comes to teacher salaries,

564
00:27:29,799 --> 00:27:32,480
thirtieth in the nation. Right, So there, you know, there

565
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,000
are real concerns that that haven't been addressed, and there

566
00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:37,000
is that feeling of you know, this is the this

567
00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:39,279
is the system right here that five and a half

568
00:27:39,319 --> 00:27:40,200
million children to tend.

569
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 2: This should be the primary focus.

570
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:43,599
Speaker 4: Two things can be true in that they are the

571
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,000
highest that they've ever been and that also Texas falls

572
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:49,720
behind other states in how how much we're funing.

573
00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:51,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's pause for a second, and here

574
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,119
from our sponsors. We have two messages from our sponsors today. First,

575
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:02,000
Coalition for Education Funding joined thousands on Saturday. Join thousands

576
00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:05,599
on Saturday, February twenty. Second, from eleven to one for

577
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,200
the Save Texas School's rally at the Texas Capital. Fun

578
00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:14,240
Texas Schools now. Find information at Save Txschools dot org

579
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,880
and raise your hand. Texas public schools are at the

580
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,519
center of our democracy. Raise your hand. Texas believes the

581
00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:24,680
future prosperity of our state, our economy, communities, and citizenry

582
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,839
hinges on the success of every public school, school, leader, educator,

583
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,279
and child. Learn more at Raise Yourhand Texas dot org

584
00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:38,799
slash get dash involved. All right, so we're talking about

585
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,200
limited amounts of money here. I mean, another area where

586
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,480
there are finite amounts of money is just a billion

587
00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:52,319
dollars currently being allocated in both proposed budgets from the

588
00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:56,000
House and the Senate to support vouchers ten thousand dollars

589
00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:01,519
per student. If you add up the math, if you

590
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,880
were to give that to every student currently in private

591
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,960
school right now, it would not be nearly enough. The

592
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:13,680
a billion dollars would not be nearly enough to cover

593
00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:16,480
that group. You talked a little bit about how they

594
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:23,119
prioritize here, but ultimately we're talking about a very strong

595
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,160
possibility that quickly supply will outpace demand. What do the

596
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,200
supporters sorry, demand will outplace pace.

597
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 2: The funding available exactly exactly.

598
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: Yes, what do the people who are advocating these bills,

599
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,680
whether it's Avid, the authors or anything like that, how

600
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,519
do they address that concern? And what are they talking

601
00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:51,240
at all about what the next step will be if

602
00:29:51,279 --> 00:29:54,960
that if it plays out in that way that we.

603
00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 5: Just described, right, well, I think Senator Creighton, Brandon Creighton,

604
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,759
who chairs This and Education Committee and is carrying the

605
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:03,680
bill on the Senate, really I mean it goes back

606
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,480
to what we're talking about with the proposed lottery system,

607
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,039
right and you know, to answer your question directly, right,

608
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,279
he talked, you know, he's gotten questions about, Okay, you're

609
00:30:14,319 --> 00:30:16,799
saying that this is going to prioritize low income families

610
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:19,720
and students with disabilities. In the event that this scenario

611
00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:23,279
plays out where the man exceeds funding, then you know,

612
00:30:24,119 --> 00:30:26,000
if this is going to do that, then why do

613
00:30:26,039 --> 00:30:29,319
we have such generous kind of flexibility within that lottery

614
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:30,039
system itself?

615
00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: Right? And he's he's.

616
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,599
Speaker 5: Going on the record and said publicly, right like, we

617
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,759
don't want to exclude the middle class, right, we want

618
00:30:35,799 --> 00:30:38,319
to make sure that families who whether they you know,

619
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,759
have a child who's you know, being bullied in a

620
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:43,400
public school, or you know, whether there's any kind of

621
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,680
frustration they have, they have flexibility for this. He brings

622
00:30:46,759 --> 00:30:50,079
up the scenario of a teacher and a firefighter with

623
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,440
four kids. He's like, we want to make sure that

624
00:30:53,359 --> 00:30:56,759
you know, they are able to access this program as

625
00:30:56,799 --> 00:30:58,680
they kind of you know work you know, essential jobs

626
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,559
in the community. Right, they should also have have you know,

627
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:03,720
you know, this particular access. But you know it goes

628
00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:06,480
back to you know, one thing I you know, want

629
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:08,920
to bring up here, which is really you know, interesting

630
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,480
to me is because we can get caught up in

631
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,400
eligibility conversations about who access is this, so on and

632
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,119
so forth. Right, there's a difference between eligibility and access.

633
00:31:20,599 --> 00:31:23,759
And at the end of the day, let's say you're

634
00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:27,440
a family that gets through the prioritization system, you go

635
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:29,960
to a private school, and the private school says you

636
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,960
don't meet our standards academically whatever it may be, so

637
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,319
we don't accept you. I have not seen the answer

638
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,599
to the questions of what happens after that, right, because

639
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:45,160
if this is all about helping these students, you know,

640
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,839
in other states, for example, you've seen in the past

641
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,359
where some you know, private schools that participate have to

642
00:31:50,359 --> 00:31:52,880
have certain enrollment requirements, right like you have to, you know,

643
00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:55,319
but that doesn't seem to exist in the in the

644
00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:58,240
bills that currently kind of stand. And what we've seen

645
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:00,799
in other programs across the state, over overwhelmingly with these

646
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,920
universal programs, that the vast majority of users end up

647
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,240
being kids who are already in private school, right, who

648
00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:09,400
are whose families could already afford private tools, private school tuition,

649
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,039
and excuse me to some extent, and so to me

650
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:14,000
that that brings forth the question of you know, Senator

651
00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:16,279
Creating has talked a lot about you know, this bill.

652
00:32:16,759 --> 00:32:19,319
We're trying to learn from all of the other mistakes

653
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,480
that you know that other states have made, you know,

654
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:25,039
as a relates to this program. But the way the

655
00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:27,240
program is structured in the bill right now, as a

656
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,960
reporter who's like look breaking down this stuff, I'm really

657
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,039
struggling to see how from an access standpoint, Texas is

658
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:36,720
going to be that much different from the way the

659
00:32:36,759 --> 00:32:40,200
other programs operate. As it relates to who benefits from

660
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,039
these programs the most well, and a lot.

661
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: Of private schools cost far more than ten thousand dollars

662
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,000
a year. So a lot of these, I mean, to

663
00:32:46,039 --> 00:32:49,319
your point, like a you know, a low income family

664
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,799
that wants to send their child to a private school

665
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,599
if that private school is twenty five thousand dollars a year,

666
00:32:54,599 --> 00:32:58,119
as some of these you know schools are like having

667
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,000
fifteen thousand, right, fifteen thousand dollars or a year of

668
00:33:01,079 --> 00:33:04,839
a bill is not accessible. And so I think, as

669
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,720
you said, in other states, we've certainly seen the people

670
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,680
who are able to take advantage of this are people

671
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,319
who are already accessing those and you know, to act.

672
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,720
A huge sticking point in Texas on this has been

673
00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:20,440
the rural communities or there are no private schools, and

674
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,880
so you know those areas are teachers Yeah right, yeah,

675
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,240
like they're not seeing that they're not you know, sort

676
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,599
of citing the same issues that maybe people in urban

677
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:34,640
areas are with their public schools. But then you know

678
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:37,039
they're not gonna be able, not gonna send their kids

679
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:38,319
two hours to a private school.

680
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:41,559
Speaker 5: And what are also to I would I would you know,

681
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,839
I pose the question too is like, ultimately, if this

682
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,039
past is, what are the characteristics of the private schools

683
00:33:49,079 --> 00:33:52,319
that choose to participate, right, because we've seen in other states,

684
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,240
is some of the private schools that you know, you

685
00:33:55,319 --> 00:33:58,359
might deem kind of the best, right, whatever metric you

686
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,559
might use to define that, they don't participate because they're

687
00:34:01,559 --> 00:34:03,799
probably like you know, we're already find so and we've

688
00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:06,000
seen you know, some like for example, Governor Ava had

689
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,960
a press conference in maybe after the election, but he

690
00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:12,840
had a press conference at a Christians uh yeah, Christian

691
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,880
school that was on the verge of closing in recent years.

692
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:15,119
Speaker 2: Right.

693
00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 5: So also it becomes a question of like the quality

694
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,159
of the actual education that comes into and what we've seen.

695
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,159
This is one thing that that kind of I guess

696
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,440
frustrates me as somebody who's like trying to like wrap

697
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,360
my head around all this stuff. Is we hear a

698
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,400
lot about academic outcomes, and what we've seen with these

699
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,760
universal programs is that, I mean, you look at the

700
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,280
state like Louisiana, it's pretty common knowledge from you know,

701
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,280
pro vout your folks, anti vulture folks, academic results were

702
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,960
abysmal in that state at one point, as you tied

703
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,320
it to as you looked at kind of public school outcomes,

704
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,599
you know, relative cases of performance on kind of centered

705
00:34:48,599 --> 00:34:51,599
our tests and relatives to what they did in public school, right, abysmal. Right,

706
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:55,519
And so then the metric of how we define, you know,

707
00:34:55,559 --> 00:34:57,920
whether this program is successful or not has started to change.

708
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,880
Now it becomes about it's not about academic outcomes. In

709
00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:03,320
was about parental satisfaction, right, for parents happy about it.

710
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:03,599
Speaker 1: Right.

711
00:35:03,679 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 5: So I just think there are a lot of these

712
00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:06,280
kind of I know that kind of goes a little

713
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:07,920
bit maybe off of kind of what we were talking about,

714
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,039
but I just think it's really interesting overall when we

715
00:35:11,079 --> 00:35:13,480
talk about ultimately who's going to access these programs, and

716
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:15,760
then how do we measure whether the programs actually live

717
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,559
up to the promises that officials are making.

718
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,159
Speaker 4: Could we just all right, I just want to take

719
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:22,519
it a step back and also acknowledge that there are

720
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:23,760
problems with public schools.

721
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 2: Right there are public schools.

722
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,599
Speaker 4: There are public schools that have been failing in the

723
00:35:27,639 --> 00:35:30,440
state for a long time, and that is a frustration

724
00:35:30,519 --> 00:35:33,239
of conservatives, and it is a frustration of parents. It's

725
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,360
a frustration of low income parents because they want the

726
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,920
best for their kids. If they could afford private school,

727
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,239
maybe they would consider private school. But as a former

728
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,159
low income kid who went to a not good public school,

729
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,480
to your point, Jaden, unless it was like a Catholic

730
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,840
school that was tied to the churches that like kids

731
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,199
in my neighborhood went to, we didn't know any other

732
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,840
private schools, and we had no idea how to get

733
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:02,719
an application to one of these schools, and we probably

734
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,960
wouldn't have been accepted to these schools because.

735
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,079
Speaker 2: The jump is just so big.

736
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 4: So I think I just want to acknowledge the fact

737
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,400
that there are problems with the public education system that

738
00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:16,760
conservatives are rightly I think, upset about. But it's the

739
00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:20,159
details and like how do we answer these things? And

740
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,119
some of these things, I don't think that SB two

741
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,400
is going to be the definitive thing.

742
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: Right, we're waiting for the House bill.

743
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 4: Maybe some of these questions get answered in the House

744
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,639
bill and it looks a little bit different because that

745
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,119
was the sticking point, right, the House was a sticking point,

746
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,239
And there are new legislators who are more open to

747
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,960
a voucher system. But everyone keeps saying the devil is

748
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,199
in the details, and what are those details? And I mean,

749
00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:47,559
hopefully we'll find out in the next couple of weeks.

750
00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 3: I mean, I do think there's like somewhat bipartisan, longstanding

751
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,679
bipartisan agreement, right that like their public schools need you know,

752
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,079
there's different ways that public schools are not serving communities

753
00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:03,280
in the way that ideally exactly right. It's like we

754
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,559
agree on that. Like almost everything in Texas, almost everything

755
00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:08,480
in politics, we agree on the problem. There's two hugely

756
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,199
different approaches solution, right, the conservative approach tends look more

757
00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:15,400
like Boucher's. The other side would say, like, just give

758
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,519
that money into the public schools. Right, if you take

759
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:20,119
let people leave, you were never going to fix the

760
00:37:20,159 --> 00:37:21,480
public schools, and you're just going to have the people

761
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:22,559
who can't who don't know.

762
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,079
Speaker 4: How We've seen privatization have that impact on other parts

763
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:26,119
of asolutely.

764
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:31,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I mean, it is a conservative belief that

765
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:36,360
the free market leads to improved outcomes for customers, right

766
00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:41,199
and right now, the conservative case for this would be

767
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,480
that there are a lot of kids who are stuck

768
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:46,559
in schools that are not performing well that essentially have

769
00:37:46,639 --> 00:37:50,920
a monopoly over the students in that system. You are

770
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,079
creating a system where they might now have some money

771
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:57,280
attached to them, which could create new schools to possibly

772
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,960
pop up to serve those communities. You're also putting some

773
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,960
financial market pressure on the schools that are already in

774
00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:08,559
place to improve in ways that may not have existed before.

775
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:11,599
Speaker 4: But I think even Republicans will argue like that, you know,

776
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,760
there are charter schools that have been set up to

777
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,159
address this kind of thing too, and right.

778
00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 3: It was been like trying to fix this for a

779
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,079
long time. I think the counter argument, right is like,

780
00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:23,599
if you the free market, you know, public school is

781
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:26,519
inherently built to be public, we serve everyone. You potentially

782
00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:29,079
hollow out those public schools. You leave only the people

783
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:31,400
that sort of don't get into the private schools or

784
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,519
can't access a private school. That's solving the problem for individuals,

785
00:38:35,559 --> 00:38:38,360
maybe not for the public. So these are two different

786
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,599
approaches the exact same problem.

787
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 5: Okay, So go ahead, I was gonna say, I mean,

788
00:38:43,679 --> 00:38:46,159
there's a couple of things. There's a lot there, but

789
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,119
you don't have to answer everything is this is the

790
00:38:51,159 --> 00:38:52,760
things that keep me up at night, right, And you

791
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,079
know you have to look at you know, there's a

792
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:58,519
couple of things, right, because there is a there is

793
00:38:58,559 --> 00:39:01,719
a narrative out there and depending on how you judge

794
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,559
a public school, right, that that public schools are you know, feeling,

795
00:39:04,599 --> 00:39:06,800
aren't you know, you know we know that you know

796
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,519
from star scores and national tests, right, there have been

797
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,679
you know, struggles for students and uh, you know, schools

798
00:39:12,679 --> 00:39:15,960
to rebound. Right, you know the one thing I think

799
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,119
about often, right, and I go back to history, right,

800
00:39:19,199 --> 00:39:22,920
because if you look, first of all, we're talking about

801
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,840
an educational system where you know, largely has struggle to

802
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,440
even fully integrate, right overall resistance to those things, right,

803
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,199
And so you're talking about generations of low income families

804
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,039
who are predominantly black and brown who have struggled to

805
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:39,599
catch up because of those institutional barriers you know that

806
00:39:39,639 --> 00:39:42,920
are in place, right, And so you know that's one

807
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,440
thing I think about. But you know, also you know,

808
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,320
as we talk about kind of you know, the meaning

809
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,400
that the institutions and you know, how we judge public

810
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,119
schools also differs. Right, if you ask the Texas Education Agency,

811
00:39:56,119 --> 00:39:58,599
you ask Governor Abbott, you know even you know, you

812
00:39:58,599 --> 00:40:01,159
look at Houston, I Z and Superintendent Mike Miles, Right,

813
00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:03,360
he's a very interesting guy. You know, read about him

814
00:40:03,639 --> 00:40:06,199
and then talk to him once you know everything that

815
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,480
he looks at is all driven by the standardized testing scores. Right,

816
00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:12,519
And I would I would, I would venture out to say, right,

817
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,800
there are public schools out here that are that function

818
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,880
in so many more ways, particularly in our rural communities, right,

819
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,559
but in urban as well, Right, that function in so

820
00:40:21,639 --> 00:40:24,840
many more ways to try to meet the moment and

821
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,159
making meet for students.

822
00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: Right.

823
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 5: I know of a rural school district that literally has

824
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,679
implemented washing machines to wash clothes for kids because they're

825
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,400
struggling with chronic apsenteeism. And you know, students, I show

826
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,000
up the class and one reason they know is like

827
00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:39,920
maybe they don't have clean clothes or adequate resources at home, right,

828
00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:42,840
And so I just think we as a general public

829
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,000
right have to understand that, you know, standardized testing scores

830
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,840
as a result of no Child Left behind the policy

831
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,000
as we look at nationally.

832
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:50,519
Speaker 2: Right, all we talk about is a.

833
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,599
Speaker 5: Test, but there are so many more factors that go

834
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,360
into whether or not a public school is meeting the moment.

835
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:57,800
And I bet you you know, you go on the ground,

836
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,239
you actually talk to kind of lower income family and

837
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,920
families that struggle. Right, there are things that public schools

838
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,519
are doing right now, particularly as it relates to you know,

839
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,000
you know, students with disabilities or whatever it may be,

840
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:11,719
that you know, services and uh, you know, benefits that

841
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,559
they can't find elsewhere because of you know, uh you know,

842
00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:18,039
whether it be private school or whatever it may be.

843
00:41:18,119 --> 00:41:19,079
Speaker 2: So I just think that's in.

844
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 3: Some ways a public school. You know, part of its

845
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,559
value is that it does it is there right, It

846
00:41:24,599 --> 00:41:28,760
serves everyone. It is before care, aftercare, It allows parents

847
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,159
to you know, go to work. Like there is some

848
00:41:31,199 --> 00:41:35,880
inherent underlying value to that that private schools also have value,

849
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,960
but are not you know, they're not saying we are

850
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,360
we open our doors for everybody.

851
00:41:39,519 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 2: And it's not even just a Texas like.

852
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,639
Speaker 3: Nationally, that's the promise of public school And.

853
00:41:43,639 --> 00:41:46,199
Speaker 5: I was going to say, too, have we seen a

854
00:41:46,559 --> 00:41:50,199
educational system in the country, right, Texas included where public

855
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,440
schools actually have all the resources they need, right, because

856
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,239
to me it becomes interesting.

857
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,119
Speaker 2: Right and.

858
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: Right, But I meant the city in those places you

859
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,239
could argue that the advantage is less what resources the

860
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,559
schools have, but more the resources the parents have and

861
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:11,079
the ability to read to their kids and some proper

862
00:42:11,159 --> 00:42:16,559
nutrition and yeah, and and like yeah, you know, the

863
00:42:17,519 --> 00:42:20,159
it's hard to separate those things when we're so divided

864
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,840
by income and other factors.

865
00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:25,119
Speaker 3: So in the end them is everything.

866
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: Exactly Okay, So I want to I want to get

867
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,920
I want to drill into what's still to be figured

868
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,199
out here because I think the two chambers are in

869
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,199
agreement right around how much they want to spend. Right,

870
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,760
it seems like we've we've sort of zeroed in on

871
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,559
this ten thousand base amount right that that parents would

872
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:47,039
provide the sticking points. The things that need to be

873
00:42:47,079 --> 00:42:50,800
ironed out, It seems like, are what if any accountability

874
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:56,559
measures are in place, right, and and basically, how do

875
00:42:56,679 --> 00:43:01,079
you prioritize when you reach the inevitable point when demand

876
00:43:01,199 --> 00:43:04,360
outpaces supply? Right? Are those Are there other things that

877
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,639
need to be figured out between those two that are

878
00:43:06,679 --> 00:43:07,880
that that feel major to you?

879
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 2: Yeah?

880
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 5: I mean the one thing I'm looking out for, you know,

881
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,599
and we're expecting this week. Uh, you know, Speaker Borroughs

882
00:43:12,599 --> 00:43:14,320
talked about you know, they're going to follow their priority

883
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,880
Priority bill this week, right, and so what'll be interesting

884
00:43:18,039 --> 00:43:21,159
to me. Obviously they'll wrestle a little bit over you know,

885
00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:22,480
be interesting to see kind of you know, what they

886
00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:24,840
allocate per year per student. But to me, it goes

887
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,559
back to kind of the prioritization, right, because the one

888
00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:28,960
thing I thought about is like, you have some of

889
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,599
the kind of more rule lawmakers who maybe the five

890
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,239
hundred percent of poverty thresholders not fly with them, right,

891
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,519
Like maybe you know, they have a better understanding of

892
00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:39,599
you know, we have you know, families in our community

893
00:43:39,639 --> 00:43:41,840
who are really struggling. And so that was one thing

894
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,320
that I kind of aplied early on. It's like, it'll

895
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,039
be interesting to see kind of what the competing like,

896
00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:47,679
how they kind of you know, think about that particularly

897
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,320
as it relates to also special education and students with disabilities.

898
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:51,559
Speaker 2: Right.

899
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 5: You know, one thing that that you know, I found

900
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,559
is a really interesting nugget. I was listening to speaker

901
00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:00,360
Boroughs talk to some you know, civic leaders and Austin

902
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,920
a couple of weeks ago, and you know, he kind

903
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,079
of revealed how, you know, he has children with learning disabilities, right,

904
00:44:06,119 --> 00:44:08,840
and so he talked about getting it right with special education.

905
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,559
We're gonna the House is gonna lead the way on this, right.

906
00:44:12,119 --> 00:44:15,440
And so, but the one thing to watch out for

907
00:44:15,559 --> 00:44:18,159
with that though, is like Senator Cragon on the other hand,

908
00:44:19,519 --> 00:44:26,440
he's been very reluctant to to to impose any particular

909
00:44:26,519 --> 00:44:30,360
requirements on private schools in these particular programs.

910
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:30,599
Speaker 1: Right.

911
00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:32,639
Speaker 5: He wants them to have kind of the flexibility and

912
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:35,239
the freedom to kind of operate, you know, as they

913
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,559
as they feel they need to write. And so again,

914
00:44:38,679 --> 00:44:41,519
I don't know that it'll be It'll be in the details, right.

915
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:43,320
You talk about doublin details of kind of what the

916
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,960
things are, but those are those are things that immediately

917
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,719
come to mind as to kind of what are the

918
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,960
kind of differing you know, details that may come up

919
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,880
between each chamber that could potentially be kind of points

920
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,119
that they need to iron out together.

921
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: So we are talking about seventy eight seventy nine, as

922
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:03,719
Abbot calls them, heart vouch your support hardcore. You know,

923
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,800
there's and there's been some some folks who would fall

924
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,760
under that hardcore camp who have quivvled with different details

925
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,440
and things like that. There are people who you talk

926
00:45:13,519 --> 00:45:16,880
to in the legislature right now who still believe that

927
00:45:17,519 --> 00:45:20,239
there are major roadblocks to this happening.

928
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:20,519
Speaker 2: Right.

929
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: You go one way, you lose some votes, You go

930
00:45:22,519 --> 00:45:27,960
the other way, you lose some votes. Is that magical thinking, James.

931
00:45:29,159 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 2: I think they're going to get something done.

932
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 4: I think they'll have to sort out some of these issues,

933
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:38,360
particularly like on special education because you can see sort

934
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,400
of from Senator Creighton's point, you don't want to impose

935
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,960
a new requirement on these private schools that don't previously

936
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,639
have these requirements.

937
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: Right.

938
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 4: But at the same time, if the House is really

939
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,960
invested in making sure that kids with special needs also

940
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:54,320
have access to to this program, then they're going to

941
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,079
have to sort something out. And I think there's going

942
00:45:56,119 --> 00:46:00,519
to be more sorting on accountability standards. But I do

943
00:46:00,599 --> 00:46:03,079
think that the votes are there, the pressure from the

944
00:46:03,119 --> 00:46:05,920
governors there, the pressure from other places are there. I

945
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,039
think they'll figure out something to get done. It's just like,

946
00:46:10,199 --> 00:46:12,639
what does that look like in the end, And I

947
00:46:12,679 --> 00:46:15,880
don't think that it's going to be everything that's in

948
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:17,480
the Senate buil that passed.

949
00:46:17,639 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: All right, Eleanor I'm going to direct the last question

950
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,119
to you, and it's going to be maybe a hard question.

951
00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:22,639
Speaker 2: We'll see.

952
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: But this was the number one issue on avis radar

953
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,760
last legislative session. The House succeeded in blocking it due

954
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:37,119
to rural Republicans and Democrats. The impact of that so

955
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,800
far has been billions of dollars in funding that would

956
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:46,639
have gone to the schools that didn't, the ousting of

957
00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:53,840
many rural Republicans, the election of what I think we

958
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,280
could all agree is the most politically conservative Texas House

959
00:46:57,519 --> 00:47:04,519
in state history. The emergence of Greg Abbott as really

960
00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:09,639
like Greg Abbott sort of finding his voices in the

961
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,599
right word, his power right in the way that he

962
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,480
I think wields more influence over the legislature than he

963
00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:20,639
has in his entire time, and uh, you know, strikes

964
00:47:20,679 --> 00:47:23,639
fear in members of the legislature in a way beyond

965
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:31,960
any other time, and that he's he's served in an office.

966
00:47:32,519 --> 00:47:36,159
How can we not view the decision of you know,

967
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,400
particularly opponents, particularly the Democrat side of those opponents as

968
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,280
a to block it in twenty twenty three as anything

969
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,800
beyond just a complete disaster and a thing that has

970
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,719
completely backfired on their party and what they want to

971
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,039
see the state accomplished as a whole overall.

972
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is the I think forever balance

973
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,480
that we see from the Democrats and people who are

974
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,920
interested in blocking sort of the Republican agenda in Texas

975
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,079
that they have to play, which is like, if we

976
00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:09,480
stop this thing, is there just a worse thing waiting

977
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:14,199
behind the next corner. And recently it seems like yes, right,

978
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,079
I mean we've seen that with the voting legislation, with

979
00:48:17,119 --> 00:48:20,480
abortion legislation with them, you know, obviously with school of vouchers.

980
00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:26,679
It's like the Republican machine on the issues that they

981
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:32,280
choose to prioritize seems to at this point to overstate it.

982
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,760
I'm sure, like have no limit, right, Like they can

983
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,360
just like run like a train right down the track

984
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,679
and if there's something in their way, it might take

985
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,079
them longer, but they will get there ultimately. So yeah,

986
00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:48,239
it's a I think it's very hard to be a

987
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,920
minority party for this long and not look back and

988
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,039
think like, did we the things we block? Did they

989
00:48:56,079 --> 00:48:58,360
not just like cause something worse down the road from

990
00:48:58,360 --> 00:48:59,039
their perspective?

991
00:48:59,440 --> 00:48:59,639
Speaker 2: Right?

992
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,679
Speaker 1: Well, any any like you want to talk about, like

993
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,480
the impact on high school sports sports question?

994
00:49:06,639 --> 00:49:08,199
Speaker 3: I was like, I have reached the end. I will

995
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,679
just say, like, Jayden, you, I mean, when did you

996
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,840
started on this beat? Relatively recently, but man, you know

997
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,960
a lot. When did you start?

998
00:49:16,519 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 5: I started here in June. Yeah, I was covering like

999
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,360
criminal justice before. So it's amazing some intersection, but not

1000
00:49:22,519 --> 00:49:23,719
obviously as much.

1001
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: Well, it has been great to have you on. We

1002
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,960
really appreciate you lending your insight. Thank you also to

1003
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,000
our sponsors, the Coalition of Education Funding and Raise your

1004
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,599
Hand Texas. Thank you to our producer Chris No. Thank

1005
00:49:36,639 --> 00:49:39,760
you to our producer Rob who was in Japan. He

1006
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,280
abandoned Chris all.

1007
00:49:42,639 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 2: That like a business trip board.

1008
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:48,159
Speaker 3: That's just like, yeah, when he comes back, we'll get

1009
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:49,920
him to do a full segment on the trip.

1010
00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: Rob is also the composer of our trip cast theme.

1011
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,360
Do you think he's performing the theme in Japan? The

1012
00:49:58,440 --> 00:49:59,079
fans are.

1013
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 3: Asking, so our Japanese audience.

1014
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: All right, thanks I we'll talk to you all next week.

1015
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:10,039
Speaker 4: M