WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:02.600 This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to k 2 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:05.400 I AM six forty, the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on 3 00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:09.279 demand on the iHeartRadio app KFI AM six forty. 4 00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:10.640 You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. 5 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:13.759 This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. If you are 6 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.320 new to my show, I'm a psychology professor at cal 7 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:20.039 State Channel Islands, but my hobby is I am obsessed 8 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:23.960 with the research. I know sounds nerdy on the science 9 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:28.000 of love. I've written three books on relationships. My dissertation 10 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:31.120 was on attachment theory. If you don't know what attachment 11 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:34.079 theory is, you're going to hear about it in today's show. 12 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.840 And you know I'm obsessed with all. 13 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:40.280 The news and mental health and how we relate to 14 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:44.479 each other. Coming up, let's see why gen Z is 15 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:51.520 drinking less. Oh, why submarining is replacing ghosting in dating relationships? 16 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.679 Producer Kayla, did you know what submarining is? I do not. Okay, 17 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:55.560 You're gonna hear. 18 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:58.159 And I'm going to give you the worst piece of 19 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:01.079 relationship advice that I've ever heard, and I'm going to 20 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:03.240 debunk it. Let me say hello to everybody. Heather how 21 00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:06.079 you doing. Oh, Heather's she's not there. 22 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:07.280 She ran away. She ran away. 23 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:09.640 It happens, Raoul, are you here, Yes, I'm oh, good, 24 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:12.400 good good. When you were in college, did you drink much? 25 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:13.200 Was beer your thing? 26 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:14.760 You know what it was? 27 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:15.200 Yes? 28 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:18.480 Yeah, we all had pubs. I worked in the college pub. 29 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:20.239 That's how I could get to know people. I was 30 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:22.599 very proud of myself. It built my shoulders. I could 31 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:26.599 carry six pictures of beer at once, three in each hand. 32 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:29.079 They were actually designed to sort of hook into each other, 33 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:33.000 so it was like, you know, anyway, apparently gen Z. Now, 34 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:35.480 what are our years for gen Z again? Nineteen ninety 35 00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:38.959 eight to all the two thousands, early two thousands. I 36 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:40.280 know both my kids are in it, one of my 37 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:41.920 nineteen ninety seven to twenty twelve. 38 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:42.400 There you go. 39 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:44.879 So one of my daughters were born in ninety eight 40 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:46.400 and the other two thousand and three, So I guess 41 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:50.200 they're technically both gen Z. New research points to the 42 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:55.319 fact that college aged kids are not drinking as much 43 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:58.519 as they used to. You know their reputation. You've heard 44 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:02.719 of the rowdy frat house parties, but it's just not 45 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:08.159 happening anymore. They're knocking back far less beer and booze 46 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:12.680 than previous generations. And according to researchers, this isn't just 47 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:16.039 a random blip in the numbers. In fact, this has 48 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:19.680 been content This number of less drinking less drinking has 49 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:23.439 continued to go down for the last two decades. A 50 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:26.319 study published in the last couple of years says that 51 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:32.520 abstinence is increasing. Complete abstinence like not even teetolling, like 52 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.319 just never touching it. It's it's continuing to increase. 53 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:36.800 With gen Z. 54 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:41.719 Back in twenty eighteen, twenty eight percent of college students 55 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:45.840 reported that they completely abstained from alcohol. Two thousand and two, 56 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:49.159 the number was only twenty percent, so already it went 57 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:50.000 up by eight percent. 58 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:54.879 Young adults who aren't in college, the working young adults. 59 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:59.280 Now, I would think high school educated young adults out 60 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:02.560 there working can ford more alcohol, maybe have more free time, 61 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:04.759 they don't have to be up all night studying, et cetera. 62 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:08.800 And Nope, the research says the opposite. There's actually more 63 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.599 of them. Thirty percent of this group reporting that they 64 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:17.280 never drink beer, wine, or spirits. You know how they 65 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:20.840 collected the data, which is very funny. Besides self report 66 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:26.120 studies and self report studies are notoriously a little loose, right, 67 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:28.759 because people lie on these kinds of things all the time, 68 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:34.240 especially self report studies on sexuality promise you field with lives. 69 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:38.960 So what they did is they looked at alcohol sales 70 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:45.039 during concerts at big events, and they found that alcohol 71 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:49.400 sales have been significantly dropping in the last few years. 72 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:54.800 A little side note for bands that are like old 73 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:58.919 rockers and you know that boomers go to those alcohol 74 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:03.319 bills have been going up. There actually is a thing 75 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:05.280 called late onset alcoholism. 76 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:05.919 Did you know that? 77 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:07.439 Because when you don't have to get up to go 78 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:10.120 to work every morning and every night it's a party, 79 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:11.919 It's like, why not have a drink? I can just 80 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:13.960 sleep in if I drink too much whatever. And then 81 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:17.120 sometimes like one time, I'm not saying it's me and 82 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:19.480 I'm not saying it's regular. But one time I was 83 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:22.839 alone at my farm and I decided I wanted to 84 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:26.720 design the perfect skinny, spicy margarita. 85 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:28.279 Did I tell you the story before, Caleb? But I 86 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:29.519 couldn't find any firewater. 87 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:32.800 I think you may have mentioned it, but I was 88 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:36.160 thinking a bar, you get this stuff called firewater that makes. 89 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:37.720 It Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, you were saying I. 90 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:39.759 Couldn't figure out how to do it, so I just 91 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:44.120 soaked dried chili peppers in water for the while. Yeah, 92 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:46.000 but you know I had to taste test it with 93 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.519 a number of versions. I thought you did the spicy 94 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:51.519 one because you couldn't drink as much because it burned. 95 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:52.759 To us you were fighting through it. 96 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:55.040 I did need to add more spice because I definitely 97 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:57.560 overserved myself that night. I woke up with a head 98 00:04:57.560 --> 00:04:59.439 of going what did I do? I was alone in 99 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:01.680 my house and I wake up with a hangover. This 100 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:04.959 is a problem. Okay, so late onset alcoholism is a thing. 101 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:07.160 It's not gonna happen to me. But just saying, all right, 102 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:13.240 So the researchers back to gen Z. Not drinking researchers 103 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.199 speculate there are three big reasons why they haven't been 104 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:20.040 drinking so much. Apparently, young people have an increase in 105 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:21.439 mental health awareness. 106 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:22.480 Guess what. 107 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:26.000 In today's world, people talk more openly about their depression, 108 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:28.399 their anxiety, their mental health issues. They don't have to 109 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:32.199 run to the bar or just get drunk and squelch 110 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:34.199 their feelings. They can talk about it or go to 111 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:38.959 their therapist or maybe they're taking prescription medications whatever, But 112 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.120 there are other treatments for mental health, is what I'm 113 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.920 trying to say than beer. The second thing is, in general, 114 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:49.720 young people apparently are obsessed with living healthier lifestyles. The 115 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:53.680 trend of clean living is embraced a lot by gen Z, 116 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:56.480 which means that they're being careful about their eating and 117 00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:01.120 drinking habits. And then what I yes right from the beginning, 118 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:02.720 because I know you're thinking it. You're thinking it as 119 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:06.120 soon as I said, oh, those young people, they're drinking 120 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:08.959 so much less alcohol. I know exactly what thought came 121 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:13.680 into your head. Yes, increased cannabis use. They're ditching alcohol, 122 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:19.240 but they're kind of replacing one drug with another. Still 123 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:23.000 not good. Okay, still not good. Guys, can't be doing it. 124 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:27.319 All right. When we come back, I want to talk. 125 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:31.759 There's a reason why I have been obsessed with the 126 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.720 science of love in my life. And you know, I 127 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:37.639 think a lot of us go to graduate school in 128 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:38.759 psychology because. 129 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:39.959 We're trying to like heal ourselves. 130 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:42.000 I mean, every class I was taking at the beginning 131 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:43.959 wasn't to get a degree, It was to get information 132 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:46.759 so I could take it on dates and figure things out. 133 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.800 And honestly, like the first book I wrote, The Boyfriend Test, 134 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:52.879 I hadn't gone to grad school at all. It was 135 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:55.560 just like from my stomach I had the sense about boundary. 136 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:57.879 It was a book about boundaries. The second one was 137 00:06:57.920 --> 00:06:59.959 called The Girlfriend Tests. I had a master's in psychology 138 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:02.399 at that point. By the time I wrote my third book, 139 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.720 The Thirty Day Love Detalks, I had a PhD in 140 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.800 psychology and I had learned so much Like every class 141 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:11.600 I took, I would like run to the world, going, 142 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:12.680 everyone needs to hear this. 143 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:13.399 This is amazing. 144 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:16.120 They shouldn't just keep this as secrets for therapists that 145 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:20.000 you pay all this money to. But I will honestly 146 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:24.639 tell you that in all my years of education and 147 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:28.680 my years of therapy, the thing that really happened is 148 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.120 that I was able to finally heal from my own 149 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:36.199 attachment injuries. A lot of people ask themselves, why is 150 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:39.360 this person with that person, Why are they saying in 151 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:43.000 that abusive relationship? Or why did they pick a person 152 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:47.360 like that? Right? You know, love isn't rational. And when 153 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:49.639 we come back, I'm going to tell you a story 154 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:52.639 of a man. Maybe you see yourself in this man 155 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:58.160 who is in the delusion of irrational love, so you 156 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:01.480 can see how it plays out. You are listening to 157 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:04.519 the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. 158 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:07.079 We are live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. 159 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:12.360 You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI 160 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:13.519 AM six forty. 161 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.720 Love makes you crazy, Love makes you crazy. 162 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:19.959 There's been research on this. 163 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:21.959 Hey is doctor Wendy waalsher listen to the Doctor Wendy 164 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:26.600 Walls Show. Literally, there's been research on this. Beyonce is right. 165 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:31.959 When your brain gets assaulted with that cocktail of neuro 166 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:36.120 hormones called lust, you are not making good decisions for yourself. 167 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:39.360 That's why in our anthropological past we had the tribe 168 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:42.200 pick the people for us. That's why arranged marriages last 169 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:47.240 a whole lot longer than romantic ones. But there's another piece. Now, 170 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:51.200 it's funny because my husband Julio. 171 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:54.559 I'm just getting used to it. This is a month 172 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:56.559 you know, I give I start to go book boy 173 00:08:56.639 --> 00:08:57.279 for husband. 174 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:04.000 Husband Julio always says, you know, it's not rational, like 175 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:04.840 why they do that. 176 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:09.200 It's not logical, It doesn't make sense like a typical dude, 177 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:10.679 not logical, not. 178 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:16.320 Rational, and like, there is nothing rational about love. Love 179 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:23.559 is not about finding happiness. Love is not about creating happiness. 180 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:29.240 Love is about finding the familiar. Whatever happened in your 181 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:32.559 early life, if you were fortunate enough, and when I 182 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:35.480 say early, I mean really early, when you're preverbal, you 183 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:37.919 didn't even store it as memories. You didn't have words 184 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:41.440 to log some narrative in your head. You stored it 185 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:44.360 as feelings in your bones. If it happened before the 186 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.559 age of three, you don't remember it, but your body does. 187 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:51.440 And things will happen in your adult romantic life. And 188 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:54.559 if you had trauma, you will go right back to 189 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.960 the scene of the crime. Someone tell your story. It 190 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:02.080 was a few years ago. This man I knew, honestly, 191 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:04.360 I thought he was crazy. I wasn't dating him. 192 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:04.879 He was a friend. 193 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:08.399 He was actually a friend of my friend at the time, right. 194 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.799 But I remember hearing this story and just being like, what, so, 195 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:16.080 here's what you should know about him. This man sadly 196 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:19.799 his mother left when he was only three years old. 197 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:22.919 And when I hear people say, oh, I'm so glad 198 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:25.360 the bad thing happened, the divorce or whatever, and they're 199 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:30.240 too young to remember. Hate that because the younger you 200 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:34.360 are when the trauma or the loss happens, the harder 201 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:37.320 it is to go through your history with a fine 202 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:39.799 tooth comb with a therapist and try to figure out 203 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:42.120 what happened right, because you don't remember it in a 204 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:47.360 narrative way, but the feelings are still there. So he 205 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:50.399 was raised by a hurt father and an aunt his 206 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:52.919 father's sister, and he had a couple siblings, but he 207 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:59.200 was the youngest, and so I noticed that he constantly 208 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:03.120 dated women who would somehow abandon him in some way, 209 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:07.759 or women who couldn't emotionally really connect, and he would 210 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:11.200 do everything he could to try to get them to stay, 211 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:16.679 spoil them whatever. Right, So he did finally meet his wife. 212 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:18.720 He got married late in life. He was like in 213 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:21.320 his late forties. But here's the easy thing. And I 214 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:24.759 remember this. I remember this story so well that when 215 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:26.919 he first met the woman who would be his wife, 216 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:30.799 they had this speed bump early in their dating relationship. 217 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:33.960 They dated for like three weeks. 218 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:36.399 Like enough time to get close and probably knock boots 219 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:39.559 and all those stuff, right, and then she flip and 220 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:41.720 ghosted him. But way back then it wasn't called ghosting. 221 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.200 It was like she just disappeared and she wasn't entering 222 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:47.039 his calls or anything. Now, I want you to know, 223 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:50.440 if you have abandonment issues because your mother disappeared or 224 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:53.320 your father disabard or something happened early in life, you 225 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:58.720 will actually be activated to pursue people who will abandon you. 226 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:02.519 And often I say that the unconscious between two people 227 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:05.159 does a little handshake, makes a little contract on that 228 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.919 first date that says, Hey, you're gonna treat me like 229 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:08.960 my critical mother. 230 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:11.679 Cool, you're gonna treat me like my abandoning daddy. Great, 231 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:13.679 it's on. So what kind of movies do you like? 232 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:14.279 Right? 233 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:18.159 And then you're just talking small talk, but actually there's 234 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:21.559 some big stuff happening underneath. So I remember this speed bump, 235 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.120 and you remember this guy. He's friends with this girlfriend 236 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:27.799 of mine, and she and I were saying, oh, you know, 237 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:30.200 she's such a jerk. I can't believe she didn't. He 238 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:33.879 was very sad. Anyway, like almost a year later, he 239 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:36.440 runs into her at the dry cleaners. They happened to 240 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:38.279 go to the same dry cleaners. Didn't know that, right, 241 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:43.120 And she says, oh, hey, look, I'm so sorry that happened. 242 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:45.080 I had some stuff going on in my life at 243 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:48.480 that time, and when I met you, I knew you 244 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:52.360 were like a solid person, You're like husband material. So 245 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.360 would you give me another chance? So, of course, mister abandonment, 246 00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:59.159 Oh yeah, yeah, yah, of course. And uh I think 247 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.919 she came over to house and they cook Thanksgiving dinner 248 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:04.960 or whatever. Anyway, he started to spoil her, treated her 249 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.639 like a queen, put her on a pedestal. You know why, 250 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:12.559 because unconsciously he's a little three year old saying please mommy, stay, please, 251 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:14.039 mommy stay right. 252 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:15.480 And here's the thing. 253 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.519 She didn't act greedy and didn't ask for a lot 254 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:23.440 because she didn't have to. She had this weird emotional 255 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:27.000 weapon apparently in her family of origin. When she was 256 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:31.440 upset about something, she didn't get upset, She just got silent, 257 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:35.840 did the silent treatment, dismissed, avoidant, didn't talk to him 258 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:37.759 for like a weit living in the same house, married, 259 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.799 and just him tiptoeing around like on eggshells. And they 260 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:43.919 did come home and like buy her an expensive piece 261 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:49.039 of jewelry. So eventually, a bunch of years into the marriage, 262 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:53.120 she leaves him. Right now, he's devastated. He's so sad, 263 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:58.360 he's ashamed. He doesn't even tell his closest buddies for 264 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.440 like six months. Right, he just made excuses for why 265 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.399 she couldn't come places or whatever, and then she had 266 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.039 an attorney call. It gets over. Right, they haven't seen 267 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:11.639 each other in months. It's over. But what does he do? 268 00:14:12.039 --> 00:14:15.320 He flies to Chicago, her hometown, to meet her, to 269 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:18.240 go see her family, to Playcate, bought her mother gifts, 270 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:21.039 told the dad how much he still loves the daughter 271 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:25.200 also used religion. She used to use religion on him too, 272 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:27.279 And he say, yes, you're right, I love you unconditionally, 273 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:31.000 like Jesus said. But I want you to know this 274 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:34.759 story isn't about his wife. It's not about her abandoning him. 275 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.000 You can judge her all you want. It's about a 276 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:43.200 hurt little boy who lost his mother. Eventually, he went 277 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:47.480 to therapy. He spent a time in therapy. He used 278 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:49.279 to say, oh, hey, go to therapist, cause you know 279 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:50.360 what therapists always. 280 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.399 Say, how does that make you feel? 281 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:53.480 Well? 282 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:54.600 It feels terrible? 283 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:58.559 Duh? Yeah, but you know what, therapy is not designed 284 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:02.159 to make you happy. It's not designed to take terrible 285 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:06.519 feelings away. It's designed to be your partner while you 286 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:11.320 do the work working through those terrible feelings. Feeling I 287 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.600 look when I was in therapy myself as a patient, 288 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.480 I cried for weeks and months about stuff in my 289 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.120 childhood till I got to a place where I could 290 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.799 forgive my parents but also see them as human beings 291 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.039 who you know, weren't given a parenting manual and use 292 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:29.039 the best tools they had to do the best job 293 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:32.039 they possibly could. I was able to have a healthy 294 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:37.080 relationship with the memories of my childhood. Love is irrational. 295 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:41.639 Love isn't about finding happiness. It's about finding the familiar. 296 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:45.159 And if we had childhood trauma, we will go back 297 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:47.919 to the scene of the crime in our adult romantic lives. 298 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:50.360 And this is what my therapist always used to say 299 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:54.000 to me. The only way out is through the pain. 300 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:56.960 She used the metaphor of labor and delivery. When I 301 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.519 was really pregnant, I said, I am so uncomfortable, I 302 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.200 would take an exact don't I even cut this baby 303 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:05.000 out right now? And she said, the only way out 304 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:08.399 is through labor and pain. And it's the same with 305 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.960 emotional growth. You got to labor through the tears to 306 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:16.000 get to the place anyway. I hope this isn't your story. 307 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:19.039 You may know somebody that this reminds you of. This 308 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:22.919 is a very common situation. When we come back, I 309 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.159 want to talk to all the single ladies, at least 310 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:27.840 the single daters out there. I'm putting a gender on 311 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:30.120 this one, sorry, because more often dudes are doing this. 312 00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:35.759 The difference between ghosting and submarining. You're listening to the 313 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.240 Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're 314 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:40.600 live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. 315 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.279 You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI 316 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:46.399 AM six forty. 317 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:50.480 KFI Am six forty, you have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. 318 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:53.679 This here is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. I'm not 319 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.559 gonna lie to you. There's nothing more painful than being ghosted. 320 00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.759 And I am amazed at how many people in the 321 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.320 earth early stages of dating decide they don't like somebody 322 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:10.319 and literally disappear. They don't return texts, phone calls, They 323 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:18.079 sometimes unfriend, unfollow, block, They literally digitally disappear, and sadly, 324 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.839 sometimes it happens after the couple has had sex. So 325 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:27.440 whoever's been ghosted feels so confused and at such a loss, 326 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:28.839 like was it something I said? 327 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:29.319 What did I? 328 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:30.200 Do? You know? 329 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.640 And there's no time to process it. 330 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:39.200 So recently I was contacted by a reporter who said, well, 331 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.880 there's a new thing going on now, doctor Wendy called submarining. 332 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.279 It's a little like ghosting. So let me break it 333 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:50.480 down for you. The difference between ghosting and submarining. Ghosting 334 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:53.119 is very clear. It means that somebody suddenly does not 335 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:58.359 respond to texts, phone calls, or dms. But the main 336 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:02.160 thing is there's no obvious reason for the disappearance. And 337 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.160 when the person who is I call the ghost ee 338 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:08.039 gives some kind of plea for an explanation, maybe they 339 00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:09.759 send a text saying, hey, haven't heard of you? 340 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:10.400 Are you okay? 341 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:10.920 Right? 342 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.599 Because you worry? Like I had abandonment issues. 343 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.720 So if I was ever ghosted, there was only one 344 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:17.960 reason why they didn't text me back. They were in 345 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.759 a car accident and they were dead. They were in 346 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.759 a hospital with their jaw wired shut and their hands broken, and. 347 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:23.519 They couldn't tell. 348 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:27.799 Literally, in my crazy brain, that's what I imagined, right, Uh, 349 00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:34.079 I couldn't be me. Also with ghosting, the ghost e 350 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:37.559 may find themselves blocked from the ghost 's social media accounts, 351 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:38.480 so they go to look to see. 352 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:40.519 Well where are they look at their Instagram or their story. 353 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:44.319 They're gone, right, and when you go someone, the behavior's 354 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:48.920 pretty much permanent. Submarining is very similar. It's where somebody 355 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.440 suddenly doesn't respond to text, phone calls, or dms, and 356 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:55.799 there's no obvious reason for the disappearance. But often when 357 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:59.400 you send that emotional plea for an explanation, you get 358 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:03.480 this vague dismissive response, like, sorry, I've been swamped. 359 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:06.880 Sorry I've been traveling. Oh so I've been under the weather. 360 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:08.519 Just something right. 361 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:10.799 I don't mean to put gender on it, by the way, 362 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:15.200 but guys, you're really afraid of emotional confrontation, aren't you. 363 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.200 You're afraid of women's feelings. So it's more often in 364 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:21.960 heterosexual relationships that the dudes do it and the females 365 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:26.359 are left hanging. But here's the difference between a submariner 366 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:32.160 and a ghoster. Months later, even years. Sometimes the submariner 367 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.000 sends a text and attempts to pick up where they 368 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:37.039 left off, pretending. 369 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:37.720 That nothing happened. 370 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:43.440 They don't even they it's like nothing happened and they've 371 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:44.039 picked it right. 372 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.119 Has that ever happened to Kayla? I am a confronter. 373 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:49.960 I am not going to not acknowledge this elephant in 374 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:51.839 the room. Right what happened a few months ago? Why 375 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:53.519 are you calling me right now? Yeah, that's the first 376 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:55.720 thing I'll say to you. Good for you, Good for you. 377 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:57.759 But so many people just pick up where they left 378 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:00.160 off too, So here's what you need to You know, 379 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:02.880 both ghosters and submariners tend to be people who have 380 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.480 low emotional intelligence, or they have a fear of intimacy 381 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:10.559 or both, or and probably very little empathy okay, because 382 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.119 they're not thinking about the feelings of the others. Now. 383 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.680 The biggest difference is that a ghoster wants to end 384 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:21.839 the relationship and protect themselves from the discomfort of having 385 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:26.279 to have a conversation with the submariner wants to put 386 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:28.799 somebody on the back burner so they can reach out 387 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.920 to them when they feel lonely, right when things aren't 388 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:33.720 working out with their other new boos. 389 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:35.680 Right, So why do they do it? 390 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:43.079 Let's talk about evolutionary psychology, psychology, sociology. Evolutionary psychologists would 391 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:45.880 say that almost all of us have some kind of 392 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.920 backup mates. It is very, very common. Even people in loving, 393 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:54.000 committed relationships might have somebody in mind, you know, like 394 00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:56.119 they might reach out to if things don't work out 395 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.319 with their current partner. And there's actually other reason. I 396 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:02.039 think it was done by David Buss at the University 397 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.640 of Texas who said that having backup mats is actually 398 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:06.960 good for your mental health. So if you kind of 399 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.599 know there's a fallback plan, what did a. 400 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:10.279 Friend of mine call it? 401 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.400