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Start having the 21 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:57.560 most fun ever at Chumbuck casino dot Com. 22 00:00:57.600 --> 00:00:59.759 No We're necessary, Dally Repoid where everybody lost in terms 23 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:05.239 of get. 24 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.719 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 25 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.799 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:25.480 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every week, 27 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:29.439 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 28 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:33.519 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host 29 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:37.079 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 30 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:57.400 Good Evening. For years, he stocked elementary schools, neighborhoods, and 31 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:01.680 playgrounds looking for young girls to abduct, rape, and murder. 32 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:07.200 As though invisible, he brazenly struck in broad daylight, pulling 33 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:10.759 children into his van or cars, where he crept into 34 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:12.919 homes in the dead of night to carry away little 35 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:17.639 girls while their family slept. He was the boogieman they 36 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:22.639 warned their children about, disguised as the friendly stranger, the 37 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:26.000 fiend who lurked in the shadows outside of bedroom windows. 38 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:29.639 From the New York Times best selling author of Monster 39 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:34.319 and No Stone Unturned, comes the incredible cold case manhunt 40 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:39.960 of one of America's most horrific serial killers. The book 41 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:44.879 that we are profiling this evening is Boogie Man with 42 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:49.599 my special guest, journalist and author Steve Jackson. Welcome to 43 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:51.800 the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview. 44 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:52.879 Steve Jackson. 45 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:57.080 Well, thank you, Dan, I appreciate you having me on. 46 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.840 Well, finally we get you on. And as I mentioned 47 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:05.199 a few times, this is true murder, the most shocking 48 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:08.280 killers in true crime history, and the kinds of books 49 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:11.520 and stories that we have this evening really live up 50 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:15.719 to that, Moniker. So let's get right to this. Tell 51 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:19.360 us our audience before without giving us, without giving too 52 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:24.280 much of the story away at all, why you became 53 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:28.360 involved with this story in particular, what compelled you about 54 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:31.240 this story? Why did you want to write Bogeyman. 55 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:38.000 Well, this story initially is centered around one of the 56 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:43.080 detectives in it's a detective out of Garland, Texas named 57 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:46.680 Gary Sweet and I had actually been working on a 58 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:50.680 different story, a different case in which he was the 59 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:55.800 main detective, and just started talking to him about some 60 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:58.919 of his other cases. He's a very well known cold 61 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:03.639 case detective done Texas, very quiet, very humble man, but 62 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:08.560 his his peers know him for what he is. And anyway, 63 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.479 he had had mentioned his work and several other people 64 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:16.360 actually had mentioned, uh, you know, talk to Gary about 65 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:20.319 this case that he worked on for seven years, I believe, 66 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:27.120 and uh, so we started talking about it, and I 67 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:32.800 I was intrigued both because of the uh the nature 68 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:37.199 of the killer and how long he had gone without 69 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.199 being made accountable for some of his crimes. But as 70 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:45.000 I started looking into the story, the story became about 71 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:52.040 you know, so often detectives and police officers. We only 72 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:54.800 hear about the bad apples and the guys who don't 73 00:04:54.839 --> 00:04:57.839 do their job or do their job incorrectly, and we 74 00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:00.920 don't hear about some of these detectives who will put 75 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:04.600 seven years of their lives and if you think about it, 76 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:09.199 all that time away from their families and their focuses 77 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:12.360 on these sorts of things. And Gary sweet is if 78 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:17.240 you're gonna talk about police officers and detectives, He's one 79 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:19.680 of those guys that you hope is out there when 80 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:24.519 when you have some troubles. He's your modern version of 81 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:28.360 a night and shining armor who is trying to do 82 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.759 his best against what he sees is or saw at 83 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:33.399 the time, was pure evil. 84 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:38.839 Now, I really really love the way you set up 85 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:43.079 this book because a lot of true crime there's a 86 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:47.360 lot of foregone conclusion. There's a lot that basically the 87 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:50.319 audience that might pick up the book might know this 88 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:54.199 book is incredible in terms of the mystery, and you 89 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:57.920 keep the reader on edge throughout this. And so let's 90 00:05:57.959 --> 00:05:59.959 get right to this, and I really love how you 91 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:03.839 lay this out. We first get introduced to Bob Holloman 92 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:08.160 and Bruce Brass Bradshaw, and again you're right the perspective 93 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.800 it comes from these police and we really get inside 94 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:16.839 these police officers' lives and also see the toll that 95 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:20.600 being a really great cop, a person that takes their 96 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:25.040 work home with them, it's a dangerous thing as well. 97 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:28.560 But let's get to Bob Holloman and Bruce Bradshaw and 98 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:36.480 Linda Meeks and Mesquite Police Department. Let's talk about Christy 99 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:43.600 Meeks and Tiffany Easter. Let's talk about the first murder 100 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:46.720 that we encounter and the first police officer officers that 101 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:50.600 we encounter, the detectives that are brought in in this case. 102 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:57.079 Well in January nineteen eighty five, this particular date, the 103 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:01.120 nineteen kind of a nice day down there for a 104 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:06.160 January in Mesquite, Texas, sunny and bright and warm and 105 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:12.399 people are outside, and Linda Meeks, the mother, is inside 106 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:18.519 of her home cooking dinner. She's a divorced wife and 107 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:21.959 her children had been off to see their father for 108 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:24.879 the weekend and they were back and so she's getting 109 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:29.920 dinner ready and Christy Meeks, who is I believe five 110 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.040 years old at the time, and her brother and another 111 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:40.120 young girl, Tiffany Easter, are outside playing just like any 112 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:42.920 number of other kids were that day, and people are 113 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.360 I mean, it's not one of those things where it's 114 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.800 a kid alone in a park after dark or something 115 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:57.199 like that. It's broad daylight, lots of people around. And 116 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:02.040 suddenly the Tiffany Easter, her and the brother come rushing 117 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:05.720 in to say that some man had approached him and 118 00:08:06.279 --> 00:08:12.519 offered cookies, and Christy had unfortunately gone off with this 119 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:17.639 man right right in front of who knows how many people, 120 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:23.480 and she disappeared. So Linda Meeks of course calls the 121 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:26.800 police department and says, you know, I have this report. 122 00:08:27.079 --> 00:08:32.480 And so Bob Holloman and Bruce Bradshaw were both working 123 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:35.840 for the Mesquite Police Department and their crimes against children 124 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:41.679 and also sexual assault crimes, and they get called into this. 125 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:45.480 It's they're both at home enjoying time with their own kids. 126 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.960 They're fairly young detectives at this time, and so they 127 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:52.159 have some young families. And part of that is, of course, 128 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:57.480 what what pays a great toll on these guys, is 129 00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:00.399 that they have children that are in that same age 130 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.240 group at the time. This happens when Christy disappears and 131 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:09.600 she literally just disappears in front of, you know, hundreds 132 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:12.240 of people who happen to be out that day, and 133 00:09:12.279 --> 00:09:15.399 so they both respond to this call for this missing child, 134 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.320 both thinking that has this typical the child will show 135 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:22.879 up having wandered down the block or over to a 136 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:27.679 neighbor's house or something like that, but it becomes apparent 137 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:31.879 that something else has happened, that she's been abducted. 138 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:37.840 Now, Christy's brother, Michael, he's seven years old, but he 139 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.200 seemed to be traumatized and not really able to be 140 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:44.799 questioned and get any information from him. But Tiffany Easter, 141 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:48.960 who's nine years old, ends up being at least able 142 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:51.720 to answer questions and seems to be able to give 143 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:55.279 a description. So what description does she give and what 144 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:59.960 other information to police are police able to get from her? 145 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:05.320 Well, she basically says that this guy, he's kind of nondescript, 146 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:08.799 and maybe that's why he fit in so well. He's 147 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:13.120 so five to ten, one hundred and sixty pounds, white male, 148 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:18.080 longish brown hair, but not so long that you'd say, well, 149 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.799 he's got really long hair, or so short that you'd 150 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:27.799 say something else. He's got long bands bangs across his forehead, 151 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:32.399 so he's not all that descript. It's not until actually 152 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:34.480 a couple of months later, when they get a police 153 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:38.120 artist on this that she suddenly remembers he had a 154 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:43.519 large mole on his face above his right eyebrow, which 155 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:48.639 becomes an important detail in this case. But Tiffany's able 156 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.960 to give a description of this man, and the officers 157 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:57.320 canvassing the neighborhood are also able to find a couple 158 00:10:57.320 --> 00:11:03.840 of young Hispanic boys, and one of them remembers her 159 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:08.200 getting into a car. They weren't sure on the color. 160 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.360 It was a sedan, small sedan of some sorts, and 161 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:15.200 they say greenither gray or yellow or maybe gray with 162 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.519 a yellow racing stripe or you know. These are these 163 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:22.639 are small children and they're the only witnesses surprisingly on 164 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:23.320 this day. 165 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:30.519 Right, So how do police then proceed with this case. 166 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:37.879 Well, it becomes a man a big hunt search the neighborhood. 167 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.759 Turns out hundreds of people actually are outlooking. Many more 168 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.879 police officers are pulled into the case to canvas the 169 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:52.799 neighborhood and looking for any other witnesses. The two officers 170 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:57.000 you'd mentioned, Bob Holloman and Bruce Bradshaw, they essentially went 171 00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:01.039 home long enough to pick up Warmer, and they stayed 172 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:06.120 out all night, searching fields and culverts and going house 173 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:09.399 to house, and and this goes on for for a 174 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:16.799 number of days until essentially they it's it's she's disappeared. 175 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:23.240 It's in broad daylight with all these people around. Uh, 176 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:27.480 this girl got into a car with a this man 177 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:32.000 and disappeared from her family and from her friends, from 178 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:37.200 her community, and the community was pretty much left with 179 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:40.919 no answers, a big, big hole on what could have happened. 180 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:45.279 And of course, as you can imagine, you know, you 181 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:50.000 have children, they're out in the yard, they're they're playing, 182 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:54.679 and yet somebody can walk up, uh, take this child 183 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:59.120 and disappear without a trace. The police officers Bob Holloman 184 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:02.759 and Bruce Sprat, of course stayed on it. They they 185 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:05.320 these are the days. This is nineteen eighty five, so 186 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:08.600 this is these are the days before sex offender registries 187 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:12.320 and all these sorts of things. So they're doing their 188 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.159 best to track down all the sex offenders in the area. 189 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.360 And they actually have some guys they think may be 190 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:21.720 good for it, but none of them turn out none 191 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:25.279 of them work, And they keep working the case, but 192 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:27.600 it grows colder and colder. 193 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:36.159 Now in April, some fishermen discover at Lake Texoma, about 194 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:38.279 seventy five miles north of Mesquite. 195 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:44.200 Tell us what they find, well, they at first, when 196 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:47.679 they are in their boat, they spot what they believe 197 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:52.519 is a large bird dead in the water, and as 198 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:58.639 they come closer they find it's the body of a 199 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:02.559 small child, and the child is taken to the corner's office. 200 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:07.000 And at that time, the decomposition is such that they 201 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:11.919 actually believed that child was a boy. But there are 202 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:18.039 some identifying clothing and other markers that eventually they figure 203 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:25.399 out it the body belonged to Christy Meeks. 204 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:31.759 And is there any indication how she was killed? What's 205 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:37.480 the state of decomposition? We know that DNA evidence was 206 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.879 still in its infancy at that time. Tell us the 207 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:45.519 state of forensic advancement at that time and what they 208 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:47.399 could derive from the body. 209 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:52.360 At that point, there wasn't much, as you stated, the 210 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:59.159 forensic sciences or especially in DNA, were in there the 211 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:02.960 early stages at that point and being able to especially 212 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.639 a body that had obviously been in the water for 213 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:08.480 well as we know now had been in the water 214 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:14.480 for almost four months, did not have anything that they 215 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:18.919 could at that time finding the body that would link 216 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.720 to a killer. They knew she hadn't been shot, and 217 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:27.960 she hadn't been stabbed. There were no ligature marks as 218 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.000 far as from a rope or that sort of thing, 219 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:35.440 so the belief was that she had been asphyxiated or 220 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:37.639 strangled or possibly drowned. 221 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.480 Now, the detectives just like we see on television. It's 222 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:49.559 amazing some of the stuff almost fictional in their book, 223 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:54.320 The attend the Funeral, Observed, the Funeral, The Great Site 224 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.440 tell us how far these detectives go in terms of 225 00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:03.360 trying every possible angle to address right. 226 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.320 And at that time, because some of the sciences were 227 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:08.879 a little bit farther behind there, they're doing more of 228 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:13.440 the old fashioned gum shoe stuff, which is there there 229 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:18.879 are cases in which serial killers of a sort have 230 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:23.120 they attend the funeral, they get sort of a kick 231 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:27.039 out of that, or they want to come and commune 232 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:31.639 with the dead later on. We all know that there 233 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:33.759 are a lot of twisted minds out there with these 234 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:38.240 these sorts of guys. So they actually the day of 235 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:44.159 the of the memorial service, those those detectives Holoman and Bradshaw, 236 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.440 as well as other officers, were out there taking license 237 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.360 plates and running those down and trying to figure out 238 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:54.799 if anybody was there that didn't belong there. They actually 239 00:16:55.240 --> 00:17:01.480 planted microphones near the headstone, wondering if somebody would approach 240 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.720 at some point, maybe by themselves, and say something that 241 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:10.599 would would reveal they were trying almost anything. They This 242 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:14.119 is the mesquite and as we'll get into some of 243 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:19.359 these other departments, they're very small departments, and they didn't 244 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.720 have large resources to devote to these sorts of things. 245 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:27.799 And this had never happened, this sort of a stranger 246 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.680 abduction out of nowhere had not happened to misquite in 247 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:35.200 the history that they'd remembered in some of these other departments. 248 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.599 As we'll get to, our our killer was good at 249 00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:42.640 that he knew these sorts of things, and and so 250 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:46.759 they were desperately trying almost anything that might lead them 251 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:50.599 to the killer. Obviously had it had changed from an 252 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:54.000 abduction and an abduction where they believed the child was 253 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:57.279 probably dead to knowing the child had been murdered. And 254 00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.480 now all they're looking for is a suspect. 255 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:06.440 Right now, you jump ahead to February twelfth, nineteen eighty six, 256 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.039 not you know, less than a year after the abduction 257 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:17.519 of Christy, and you introduce a character, Tiffany Ibera, who's 258 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:21.880 ten years old. Tell us a little bit about this story. 259 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:27.680 Well, Tiffany, uh, she is at this time in an 260 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:30.799 area very close these uh, these areas that we're talking 261 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:35.720 about originally are all in the Dallas area. And Tiffany 262 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:39.599 is walking to school. Actually she's with some friends early 263 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:44.960 one morning. First, and then her clothes are soiled by 264 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.599 a a bird in a tree or of some sort 265 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:49.880 like that, and so she goes home to change your clothes, 266 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:55.480 and now she's walking to school. She notices a man 267 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:58.160 in a van on the other side of the street 268 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:03.640 at first, who's kind of watching her walking to school. 269 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:08.880 He's in this neighborhood, and he gets out of the 270 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:13.319 car and begins to approach her, and although there's nothing 271 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.599 howardly threatening about him, he's smiling and he's trying to 272 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:22.839 lure this child near. She starts to run, but he 273 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:27.559 catches her fairly quickly and takes her and throws her 274 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:32.680 into his van. At this point, he for some reason 275 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:40.000 is talking to her, and he'll later tell another inmate 276 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:44.000 that she was too pretty to kill. But he hands 277 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:46.759 her a what was called a bagphone at the time. 278 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:49.079 I don't know if you remember m I barely do, 279 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:53.599 is sort of the speakers to cell phones, and tells 280 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:56.160 her to call her mom and him tell her mom 281 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.519 that she's been abducted, and he allows her to do that, 282 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:02.640 and soon as he gets that one sentence out where 283 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.240 he grabs the phone back and then tells her if 284 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:07.720 this ever happens, if I ever see you alone again 285 00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:13.599 next time, you won't get away, and then he tells 286 00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:16.119 her to leave the van. She leaves and runs home 287 00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:20.480 and tells her mom that this stranger had her, and 288 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:24.119 her mom's a little bit not sure is Tiffany making 289 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:25.920 up an excuse because she didn't want to go to 290 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.480 school or what is this whole wild story, but they 291 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:32.039 do look into it, and they do eventually call the police, 292 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:35.160 and the police take a report, but there's nobody else's 293 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:41.000 reported some stranger lurking in a van in the neighborhood 294 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.759 picking up little girls, so they allow it to go 295 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.319 with just a having taken a report from Tiffany. 296 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:56.480 Right now three days later, you know, and again what 297 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.240 a sad ironic date, but February fifteenth, right after her 298 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:06.039 Valentine's date. And it's this is a heartbreaking portrayal you 299 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.079 have in the book too, that what's found is a 300 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:15.559 heart shape Valentine's box. Tell us about this February fifteenth. 301 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.920 Well, on February fifteenth, in the same neighborhood, actually the 302 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.839 same street, though it won't become apparent until later. To 303 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:30.480 the cold case detectives, a little girl named Christy Proctor 304 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:36.440 was walking home from a friend's house and she had 305 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.079 her Valentine's Day box that had been given to her 306 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:42.400 by her aunt. And my understanding it was the sort 307 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.359 of thing that you would collect, those little Valentine's we 308 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.000 used to get when we were kids in school, and 309 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:54.559 she had this box and suddenly she disappeared, and all 310 00:21:54.599 --> 00:22:00.720 they actually find is the box, and once again this isn't. 311 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:04.519 We're not talking very late at night or in the 312 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:09.279 dark or anything else. She simply disappears. And both these girls, 313 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:13.440 Tiffany and Christy, were within several blocks of the elementary 314 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:19.200 school that they both attended. So Tiffany, for some reason, 315 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:25.000 this this man I have termed the bogeyman, this monster 316 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:31.240 let her go and but then continued to hunt in 317 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:35.799 that same area and grabbed Christy Procter instead. 318 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:45.680 Well, you explain and convey the attitude of the police 319 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.359 at this point as a result of this, and also 320 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.799 the panic. We just touched on it a little bit, 321 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:57.079 but now describe that panic, that that palatable fear that 322 00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:58.480 these people were experiencing. 323 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:08.640 I'm sorry, did I miss something there at the end dance? 324 00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:12.000 Yeah, I just I said, you really described the panic. 325 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:14.799 But I would like you to explain to the audience 326 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:18.200 really what was as a result of this. What kind 327 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.759 of reaction does the community have. It's a small community, 328 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:27.279 and and because people are literally disappearing these children, tell 329 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:31.920 us about what the general environment was in the attitude 330 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:33.400 in then in that community. 331 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:38.000 Well, sure, when the when the police realize that Christy 332 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:43.079 Proctor has also disappeared, and and in the same area 333 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:47.200 that Tiffany had. They they suddenly realized that there's a 334 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:52.559 a predator on the loose who's actively hunting children. And 335 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.480 of course, because it is so close to Mesquite and 336 00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:01.599 it's only been a year or so since Christy Meeks 337 00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:07.680 had disappeared, that they're starting to draw some correlations between 338 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:14.119 that disappearance this disappearance, and of course because of the 339 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:20.319 nature of this most disappearance, most child abductions are somebody 340 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.000 in the family, you know, there's a divorce in the 341 00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:25.599 family and one parent or the other takes the child, 342 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:29.319 or somebody in the family thinks they're rescuing the child 343 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.279 from the parents, or even a family friend, and a 344 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:35.559 lot of these get tracked down. But I think people 345 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:40.440 would be surprised that stranger abductions are actually a very 346 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:44.400 small percentage of these. So when you have someone like 347 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:49.799 this who is actively praying on children and doing so 348 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:57.359 in a methodical way around certain areas, certain school areas, 349 00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:03.680 certain socioeconomic groups are tard you you. I mean, just 350 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:09.440 imagine as a parent that you are your child is 351 00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:11.440 out there, your child's got to walk to school. You 352 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:15.279 can't necessarily take your child to school every day. You 353 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:20.039 can't walk them home every day, You can't see them 354 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:24.039 to their friends' houses. And this is a neighborhood where 355 00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:27.440 some of that had had gone on, and children, like 356 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:31.400 children everywhere, will we'll go to friends' houses. And now 357 00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:36.519 suddenly it's as if a lion had been turned loose 358 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:42.720 in your your neighborhood that was preying on children. But 359 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:47.960 this is a lion that no one sees. One that 360 00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.359 could be the guy walking down the street next to you, 361 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:55.960 on the sidewalk across the street, the guy you saw 362 00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:00.079 in the store, or the stranger you don't. You know, 363 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.160 you start looking at every car. You start wondering about 364 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.599 that guy who's a little bit odd, who lives in 365 00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:12.599 the apartment above you. You you know, you start questioning everybody, 366 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:16.799 You question your friends. You you wonder who this could 367 00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:22.240 possibly be, who could take children during the daylight hours 368 00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:26.400 and not be seen and or be seen only by 369 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.799 other children. It's in some ways it's it's like one 370 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.640 of those Stephen King books where the adults can't see 371 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:35.480 the monster and only the children can. 372 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.440 Yes, as well, you know, they go through the extraordinary 373 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.119 efforts of even hypnotizing these children to try to see 374 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:49.279 if they can glean some you know, new information right 375 00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:53.559 and for our audience too, if you could describe the 376 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:57.000 geography that we're talking about to this interstate sixty five. 377 00:26:57.160 --> 00:26:59.119 Tay Isida is Ryan. I'm not sure if you know 378 00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:01.039 this about me, but I'm a bit of a fun 379 00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:02.920 fanatic when I can. I like to work, but I 380 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:05.319 like fun too. It's a thing. 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