WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:18.719 Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster 2 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:21.719 movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brittany Brownfield and 3 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:23.640 I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by. 4 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:25.760 Ben Stover, individual therapist. 5 00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:29.000 Hannah Espinozo, marriage and family therapists. We're all licensed clinical 6 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:32.159 professional counselors also known as therapists, who practice out of Chicago. 7 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:35.399 Even though we are licensed mental health professionals, this podcast 8 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:38.359 is purely for entertainment purposes and to fulfill our love 9 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:40.320 of dissecting pop culture and all forms. 10 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.280 Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists, 11 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:44.359 we aren't your therapist. 12 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:46.960 If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find 13 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:51.200 a local mental health provider. I feel good, I feel great, 14 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:55.079 I feel wonderful, guys, And just like that, we're talking 15 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:56.799 about what about Bob today, y'all. 16 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:58.439 We're finally doing it, y'all. 17 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:01.119 We've only talked about doing this one for eight years, 18 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:01.840 so it's a good thing. 19 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:04.680 We're doing every season, every season we have talked about this. 20 00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:10.560 It's incredible excited. So this is our official start to 21 00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:14.879 season nine. Correct, Yes, this is our official start to 22 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:17.879 season nine. We're finally discussing what about Bob, the patron 23 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.239 saint of this podcast. I haven't watched this movie since 24 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:25.560 I was a kid. What about you, guys. I also 25 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:27.120 haven't watched this movie since I was a kid, but 26 00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:30.120 I remember it pretty clearly. Honestly, I was a little 27 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:31.640 surprised by how well I remembered it. 28 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:37.120 I watched it first, I think on a band trip 29 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:41.719 on the bus sure, of course, because our band director 30 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:46.280 was a interesting fellow and liked movies like this. We 31 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:49.319 watched this in Austin powers on said trip. I think 32 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:51.719 it was to Saint Louis for this one. And the 33 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:53.599 last time I watched it, I think I was in 34 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.400 my psychology and film class at Eastern Illinois, which is 35 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.920 more years ago then we're going to quantify. 36 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:01.319 All right. 37 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:03.799 This movie it came out in nineteen ninety one. It 38 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:07.920 stars Bill Murray and Richard Dreyfuss, and it's about a 39 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:14.360 guy named Bob who has a collection of mental health 40 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:18.680 stuff that we will talk about, who goes to see 41 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:21.560 a new psychotherapist I think is his official title in 42 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:26.120 the movie, doctor Leo Marvin, And that is the movie 43 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:28.479 Bob follows him to on his vacation. That's all the 44 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:33.599 part I really remembered is a patient follows his psychiatrist 45 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:38.199 on vacation. Not remembering that and watching it now that 46 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:42.840 Bob meets this guy for ten minutes maybe less in 47 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:46.800 his office, imprints on him like a duck, and then 48 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:52.319 follows him for the next several days on vacation. So yes, 49 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:54.919 we'll be talking about just Bob and Leo. We'll be 50 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:57.960 taking turns talking about Bob first and the mental health 51 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:02.159 soup that is his character, and then we'll be talking 52 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:06.199 about Leo. Doctor Leo Marvin as a typical sort of 53 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:10.479 stereotype of like a narcissistic therapist, as I feel like 54 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:13.199 they were portrayed a lot in the eighties and nineties, 55 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:17.840 like a frasier up their own ass. It actually kind 56 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:20.000 of made me think of when we did Cruel Intentions 57 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:23.080 the Therapist in the beginning of that movie, where it's 58 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:27.639 all about hawk and a product and being a snob 59 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:30.960 seemed to be what we thought therapists were. 60 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:31.560 At that time. 61 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:36.000 It sure seems like the emphasis was on the expert 62 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:41.199 therapist model where you come into my office and I 63 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:46.439 sit behind a really big, powerful looking desk that communicates 64 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:48.759 how small my pen is exactly. 65 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:56.439 That desk was a monstrosity and so uncomfortable, so uncomfortable. Yeah, 66 00:03:56.439 --> 00:04:00.240 it definitely doesn't create a warm environment in way which 67 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.919 you feel. It definitely makes you feel like you're being interrogated. 68 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:07.960 I have never done therapy sitting behind a desk, not 69 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.800 one time ever ever. 70 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:12.919 No, even when I've had a desk, I've done which 71 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:14.639 I misimiting you guys all do, which is you face 72 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:17.079 away from your desk. Your desk faces the wall, and 73 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:18.879 you turn away from your desk and you face your 74 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:20.680 client with nothing between the two of you. 75 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:23.120 My desk also faces the wall, so that I find 76 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:25.879 less things to distract myself with, which does not work. 77 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:31.920 So I guess we coull just jump right into it 78 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:36.199 with mister Bob Wilie. So right away we're introduced to 79 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:41.680 this character who seems to have a collection of phobias. 80 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:45.560 Is how he's first introduced. I started keeping track of 81 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.319 them as I was watching. Let me know, guys if 82 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:54.879 I miss anything. So claustrophobia, because he is like when 83 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:58.319 he gets into his apartment building hallway and he starts 84 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:00.639 to get very like the walls are closing in on him, 85 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:03.560 and the elevator and the elevator. He walked all the 86 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:05.879 way up the stairs, which seems to be pretty far 87 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:09.279 in Leo's office because he can't handle getting on the elevator. 88 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:11.680 Does he go on the elevator in charch pretty four floors, 89 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:14.240 which I feel like he would be so late to 90 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:16.920 his appointment if he had to go forty four flights 91 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:17.800 of stairs. 92 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:23.319 Except that he's very compulsive, so he's probably very early 93 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:26.560 walking up those stairs. Yeah, he looked like he was 94 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:28.040 about to have a heart attack when he did that 95 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.120 forty four flights. 96 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:33.560 Yeah, I really don't know. You'd have to be pretty 97 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:37.720 fit to do that kind of bullshit. And a germophobe, 98 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.879 which isn't actually a psychological term. 99 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:41.560 I looked it up. 100 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:44.560 The term is misophobia, which is when you're scared of 101 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.720 germs touching stuff. So he uses a lot of tissues 102 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:51.120 in the movie to touch buttons, to touch anything that 103 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:55.879 was like a public item, and then like agoraphobia when 104 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:58.360 he goes out, it seems like he's overwhelmed by the 105 00:05:58.399 --> 00:05:59.279 sound of the world. 106 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:01.079 You know what kind of made me think of Hannah 107 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:05.079 as bo is afraid? I was just thinking that exact thing. 108 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:09.480 I was the first frames of the film are so 109 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:11.120 similar to BoA's Afraid. 110 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:12.959 You're absolutely right, but was Afraid. 111 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:17.639 Is the horror horror the Lynchian horror nightmare version of 112 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:18.600 What About Bob? 113 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:23.920 Yeah, I mean it's probably inspired by paying homage to it. 114 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:28.800 Yeah, And he does describe things that also sound like panic, 115 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.319 like when he's talking to Siggy. 116 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:35.319 We'll discuss that later, that poor child and his poor name. 117 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:39.120 He he does bring up stuff that does sound like 118 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:45.160 actual panic symptoms, because he says like I get dizzy, spells, nauseous, trouble, 119 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:48.160 they say, trouble, breathing, trembling, cold sweat like. He does 120 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:52.399 name a lot of things that are legit panic, hot sweat, 121 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:58.279 hot sweat, cold sweats. So when we see him, he 122 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:04.399 does seem to be displayed a multitude of phobias. He 123 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:07.800 works from home. He doesn't seem like he goes outside 124 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:11.839 if he can help it. But we're why are we 125 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:12.480 calling it soup? 126 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:12.639 Though? 127 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.560 Why are we calling a mental health soup? Even though 128 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.639 I'm like naming all these actual diagnoses. 129 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.319 Because they made up a diagnosis. Let's start there. 130 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:24.680 I was gonna say, like what he says actually is 131 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:30.040 I guess a fancy way of saying mental soup multiphobic personality. 132 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:32.720 Yeah, it's a made up diagnosis. That's why it's mental 133 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:36.639 health soup. What we see Bob displaying is two distinct 134 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:43.000 likely disorders, but none of them are multiphobic personality disorder 135 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:44.759 because it's not fucking real. 136 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:48.560 I know, Bob does seem to be what we've talked 137 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:51.240 about a lot on this podcast, which is, we want 138 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.439 to put a crazy person in a movie, so we're 139 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:58.839 gonna just throw a bunch of symptoms and behaviors at 140 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:02.079 them in order to serve the story, not to like 141 00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:05.199 represent anything accurately. And this is clearly a comedy. 142 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:06.360 We get it, guys. 143 00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:09.600 It's a comedy and it's directed by Frank Oz. We 144 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:12.600 know it's not a movie supposed to take seriously. And 145 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:15.519 they do use a lot of terms in language that 146 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:19.439 is a part of our work as therapists. 147 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:25.079 And most of it was represented poorly, but they did. 148 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:28.120 I feel like they just took exactly like you said, 149 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:32.799 how do we make the most Bonker's story about a 150 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:36.000 really bad patient and a bad therapist. And remember when 151 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:40.759 they introduced Bob to us, it's via his previous therapist, 152 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:44.759 who the subtext is telling us that person is quitting 153 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:46.559 therapy because of Bob. 154 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:50.000 Bob drove him out of the job, out of the field, 155 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:56.399 he drove him, he clearing his office out. Yeah, like yeah, 156 00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:58.480 And I do wonder when that therapist said we're a 157 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:02.720 dying breed to Leo. I was like, is this some 158 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:05.840 joke that I would understand when I first saw this 159 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.279 movie in like ninety one that I don't quite understand now. 160 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:15.399 Psychiatrists that do therapy is my guess. Okay, but I 161 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:21.000 don't know, or maybe he was just referencing that people 162 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:25.200 who are experts like that are dying breed and was 163 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:29.799 saying exactly whatever he needed to to play to Leo's ego, 164 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:33.200 so he would take the patient without questioning too much. Yeah. 165 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.759 Maybe, But yeah, Bob is yeah, he's it's basically a 166 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:43.720 vehicle for Bill Murray to act totally berserker. And like 167 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:45.480 I said, they just kind of throw a bunch of 168 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.840 phobias at him. And I think one thing we can 169 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:52.480 address though, is is it possible for someone to have 170 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.080 multiple diagnoses to have multiple phobias? 171 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:58.159 Yeah. 172 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.080 What feels suspicious about Bob as we get to know 173 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:04.320 him throughout the movie, though, is it seems like he more. 174 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:07.039 Has has. 175 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:13.000 Anxiety or perseverates on the idea of having different diagnoses 176 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.240 and phobias that necessarily has them. 177 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.039 And he gets over them too fast, he gets over them. 178 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:19.440 Well that's the biggest way. 179 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:21.120 Absolutely. 180 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:23.759 Yeah, that's definitely one of the biggest problems in terms 181 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:27.559 of what they're displaying to us, as though as though 182 00:10:27.559 --> 00:10:32.039 this ten minute conversation could do anything for someone with 183 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:35.879 as as ill as he is supposed to be presenting. 184 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:37.320 Right, which. 185 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:41.320 It points to CD for him, right, And if you 186 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.679 have multiple diagnoses, what you're describing is that he's worried 187 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.480 that he has the things. Yeah, but he doesn't actually 188 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:51.039 have them. And yes, problems with the movie that oh, look, 189 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:53.879 there's magic, but I think the movie's making fun of 190 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:58.320 that more than presenting that is real. Yeah, but if 191 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:02.679 Bob were a real person and he was displaying constant 192 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:06.840 worry that he has these disorders but then gets over 193 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:11.679 them quickly and just plays up to them, I don't 194 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:13.399 know that plays up to them isn't quite the right word, 195 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:17.519 because he's genuinely distressed. Like I don't think Bob doesn't 196 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.360 seem to present his fictitious disorder, which used to be 197 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:21.360 called Munchausen's. 198 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:26.480 Okay, I don't buy that one quite well. 199 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:28.559 Maybe what we can do right now is a little 200 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:32.759 psycho ed one on one about what Bob could actually 201 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:36.360 be presenting with because one thing is, yeah, you're talking 202 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:41.039 about Munchausen. I could see people positing that while watching 203 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:44.000 this movie. What makes you think that's not that? 204 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:52.799 I think with Munchausen's people play into that almost an 205 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:57.320 unaware kind of way. There's like an intentionality, there's an 206 00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:02.679 intention of a drivenness to it, and they believe they're ill. 207 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:08.039 And Bob, I think, worries that he's ill, but doesn't 208 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:12.519 necessarily believe it. He's trying not to get things, and 209 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:16.559 he's coming up with rituals to do to avoid them. 210 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:19.360 My good example of a ritual he clearly has is 211 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:24.000 when he starts talking about being afraid that he has turets. Yes, 212 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:27.159 but then he starts acting like he has turets to 213 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:29.879 prevent himself fro getting threats. That would be an example 214 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:32.440 of an obsession, yeah and a compulsion. 215 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.320 Yeah, you're right, because if he had like fictitious or 216 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:39.279 like Munchausen, he would just be saying I have tourettes. 217 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:41.879 Correct and he'd be acting as if he had turets. 218 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:45.200 He would. But what we're talking aboubout not afraid of it. 219 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:46.399 Yeah, but what. 220 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:48.559 We're talking about is actually a version of OCD. I 221 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:52.000 don't think people know a lot about which is OCD 222 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:58.559 can present as an obsessive worry that you have something 223 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.879 like I've had people worry they weren't actually suicidal, but 224 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:05.720 they were worried they'd be suicidal. And that can be 225 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.639 something you have to be careful about differentiating as a therapist, 226 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:13.480 like do you are you actually experiencing SI societal ideation 227 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:17.159 or are you just having intrusive thoughts about like oh god, 228 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:18.840 what if I grab that knife and cut myself? 229 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:20.399 Which is different? 230 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:22.320 Is different? 231 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:27.399 What makes yeah OCD it in particular show up like 232 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:30.519 this is the obsession is the worry that something's wrong, 233 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:32.440 and the compulsion is seeking reassurance. 234 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:35.759 Yeah, because what the client I'm thinking of would ask 235 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.279 a lot of questions. They would go to It was 236 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.279 a younger client, so they would go to their parents 237 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.000 and ask them a bajillion questions over and over again, 238 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:44.000 like will I really do that? 239 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:47.000 Will I really hurt myself? And so you're right, like 240 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:47.519 there is. 241 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:53.440 The thought, and then the accompanying behavior to try to 242 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:55.360 feel safe if possible. 243 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.919 And he seems to be aware that it's ridiculous, which 244 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:03.000 is another thing that makes it point away from fictitious disorder. 245 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.559 He's not convinced he has something. 246 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:10.080 But where we do see is that Bob displays he said, 247 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:14.960 can people have two yep, and Bob imprints on Leo 248 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:17.600 like a little baby duck, and clearly imprinted on his 249 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:22.000 last therapist, and also in prints on Leo's family and 250 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:24.200 on the elderly couple. 251 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:29.240 Although they got they have their own beef the agenda. 252 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:32.320 Yeah, that was a weird character that I don't think 253 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:36.559 was necessary. Agree, and they kept like panning to them, yeah, 254 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:39.240 to get their reaction shots to when bad things would 255 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:39.799 happen to Leo. 256 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:43.039 Well, I mean they're clearly setting Bob on him. They're 257 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:46.039 encouraging Bob. They sure Leo deflects him and they just 258 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:46.840 bring him right back. 259 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:50.440 They're they're honestly, I can kind of understand, Yeah, someone 260 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:55.279 who can engage in pettiness. They're like, you need somewhere 261 00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:57.120 to stay, you can stay with us, Bob. 262 00:14:57.799 --> 00:14:58.039 Yeah. 263 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:03.480 But what we do see Bob displays his dependent personality disorder. 264 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:07.559 He is unsure of what his identity is without someone 265 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:12.360 else validating that, without being attached to somebody else. Leo 266 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:16.600 is the greatest doctor that's ever existed, and he can't 267 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:20.080 possibly do anything without him. And he gets so scared 268 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:23.360 when he finds out Leo's going on vacation that he 269 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:30.799 acts like he's the insurance police and tracks him down 270 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:36.840 by getting the call center to tell him where doctor 271 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:37.399 Marvin is. 272 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.840 And watching that scene just made me scream in my 273 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:44.720 head goes like, oh my god, that might actually work. 274 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.759 I know. I feel kind of bad for the for 275 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:53.840 the Answering Service because you don't think people are going 276 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:55.200 to act like that in real life, you know what 277 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.279 I mean, like. 278 00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:57.480 Be that out of pocket. 279 00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:59.720 Yeah, so I can see where you would accidentally do 280 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:01.720 something even feels so awful. 281 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:04.399 After the fact, I felt really bad. 282 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.360 Yeah, yeah, agreed. And just the fact that he that 283 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:13.440 was so that was just so wild. All of that 284 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.679 part was so incredibly wild. And then faking that he 285 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:24.360 completed suicide in order to oh because when he when 286 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:26.519 he goes to the and he says he killed himself, 287 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:26.919 that's why. 288 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.120 We're investigating it. Yeah, Yeah, Which that's. 289 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.399 Another thing where because I think what you were starting 290 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:36.360 to say earlier, Ben is someone who has these phobias, 291 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:41.480 genuinely has these phobias, wouldn't be able to overcome them 292 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:48.600 enough to stalk their therapist to his vacation exactly. Like 293 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:51.279 this movie tries to kind of bullshit that, Yeah, I 294 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:53.360 like him having a hard time getting on the bus 295 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:56.799 and stuff, but he gets over all that stuff so 296 00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:58.840 quickly in his pursuit of Leo. 297 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:01.639 He does. 298 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:03.919 I mean, he clearly made everybody on the bus miserable, 299 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.440 so he's actively trying. But because he's on such a mission. 300 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.920 But like I didn't explain fictitious disorder enough, and with 301 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.680 factitious disorder, he'd be doing it for the attention. He'd 302 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.359 be faking the illness to get the attention, and you're 303 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:23.359 going to great lengths to do so. I don't see 304 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:27.000 that in Bob. I'd accept the mental health soup argument 305 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:31.200 where they played some aspects of that, but I don't 306 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:35.440 feel like Bob would randomly fake symptoms. At moments where 307 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:39.440 things got tough, he just kept singing the praises of 308 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.200 how doctor Marvin's the only person who can fix it, 309 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:49.000 and displayed blatantly inappropriate Bonker's behavior, but it didn't seem 310 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.000 like he played up symptoms to get the attention. He 311 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.160 just soaked up all the attention he could get, but 312 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.160 didn't use his symptoms to get it. And it wasn't 313 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:01.920 like he looked up a disorder and was faking it. 314 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:04.759 It seems like he's afraid he has a disorder. So 315 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.279 that's where the separation comes in. 316 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.240 Yeah, And so this is where I guess, if nothing else, 317 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:14.880 Bob is a good practice for like differentiating diagnosis, which 318 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:19.160 is does he have OCD, does he have fictitious Munchausen's, 319 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.119 Does he have dependent personality disorder? Does he just have 320 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.759 like a bunch of random phobias multiphobic personality? I guess 321 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:28.839 is that we could put it and like we're saying, 322 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:31.480 the phobia thing kind of falls apart by how easily 323 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:33.920 is able to overcome them, because I work with people 324 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:40.160 who have like phobic levels of stuff and it's hard 325 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:44.079 for It's like they miss important stuffs in their life, 326 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:46.759 you know what I mean, Like their phobias get in 327 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:50.519 the way of their functioning of things that really mean 328 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:53.440 something to them. So the fact that he's able to 329 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:56.839 push through all of that, so quickly to get all 330 00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:59.920 the way to where Leo is kind of blows the 331 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.920 phobia diagnosis out of the water, right. 332 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.920 Whereas when we talk about dependent personality disorder, listen to 333 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:09.480 these traits and tell me if this sounds like Bob. 334 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:13.079 This is where we do what's called differential diagnosing. Lots 335 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:16.519 of things have mimicking symptoms, But when I start listening 336 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:21.119 to these intense, pervasive need to be taken care of, 337 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:29.359 submissive clinging behavior, extreme fear of separation, this sounds like Bob. 338 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:32.799 Yeah, that's Bob. Definitely, that makes a lot of sense. 339 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:34.960 I feel like that's the one that I picked up 340 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.640 on first, besides the phobias. But I really like the 341 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:41.599 way that you guys are talking about how it's that 342 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:44.880 he's just so afraid that he has something, because I 343 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:47.160 think that definitely is a part of a part of 344 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.480 what's going on for him. 345 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:54.440 I think when you look at Bob, he does fit 346 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:59.039 the combination of these two really well, at least as 347 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.200 well as going to a from the early nineties with 348 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:05.079 Bill Murray being a maniac and apparently he was actually 349 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:09.160 a maniac on set, and I think the animosity that 350 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.119 Richard Dreyfush shows him was real because he he threw. 351 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:18.319 An ashtray at his face. Bill Murray threw it. Bill 352 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:20.440 Murray was being like a bully in a giant asshole. 353 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.480 Apparently you know that method. Acting bullshit is bullshit? 354 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:25.079 Yeah, it is. 355 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:26.880 I don't even know if he was doing that or 356 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.319 just Bill Murray was a maniac at this exact fase 357 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:29.759 in his career. 358 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:30.359 I don't know. 359 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.960 I haven't studied up on my Bill Murray history, but 360 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:41.319 the behavior we see in the film is clearly obsessed 361 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.000 and afraid, but also having a deep need to be 362 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:48.720 taken care of. But I don't think they overlap. I 363 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:51.160 don't think Bob is doing all this to fake that 364 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:55.480 he has something. I think he's genuinely terrified that something's 365 00:20:55.519 --> 00:21:01.359 wrong with him. But it's not inventing shit to be that. 366 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.599 I can see the argument for it, but I don't 367 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:04.200 think so. 368 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:09.200 Yeah, Like I would be more open to the idea 369 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:15.480 that maybe he has some anxiety OCD about having specific 370 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:19.839 illnesses and maybe also having dependent personality disorder, Like you 371 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:24.960 can have a personality disorder and have another mental health illness. 372 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:27.759 I don't know how much people know that either, because 373 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.960 I think people I don't know the modern The current 374 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:35.240 way of thinking about personality disorders is not very kind. 375 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:38.279 And the way I kind of hear it be talked 376 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:40.440 about in the mainstream is, if you have a personality disorder, 377 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:42.839 nothing's really wrong with you, quote unquote except for your 378 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:46.160 personality in terms of diagnosing. But actually a lot of 379 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:50.319 people with personal disorders can have comorbidities with other diagnoses. 380 00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:54.079 So he could be someone who has anxiety and dependent 381 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:58.759 personality disorder, and anxiety could come out as perseverating on 382 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:00.799 illnesses to an OCD level. 383 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:05.720 Perhaps, Yeah, I certainly see the OCD. He's clearly fixated, 384 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:07.880 and he has lots of little things that he does, 385 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:12.359 and we're seeing all of that combined. Like you said, 386 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:16.200 I think where you're I draw the separation again, is 387 00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:19.359 that in fictitious disorder. The best example we've seen on 388 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:23.160 that on movies we've done was an it where we 389 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:27.000 saw Munchausen's by Proxy with the one kid's mom who 390 00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:30.000 was medicating him for anxiety and like making him take 391 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.440 pills and arguing with the doctors and doctor shopping and 392 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:38.359 manipulating results and telling everybody to get attention that her 393 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:42.599 son was so sick Bob's not doing any of that. 394 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:47.680 There's none of the malicious representation. Bob is genuinely terrified 395 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:53.279 that something's wrong with him. It's just super dependent at 396 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:57.599 the same time. And that's a real interesting divide in 397 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:00.079 mental health soup. We've got going on with Bob here. 398 00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:02.880 Absolutely, And I was just going to add that another 399 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:08.359 really good example of Munchausen is in the HBO limited. 400 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.119 Series called Sharp Objects. 401 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:15.880