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Speaker 1: It's been now several months since the Art Conference in London,

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and in retrospect, there are a lot of things to

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think about, a lot of things that happened. One of

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the great things that happened at this conference was that

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I was able to invite a whole bunch of artists,

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including a large group of Orthodox artists. And so Andrew Gould,

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who is an amazing building designer has been on my

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channel before, had the idea of doing a roundtable where

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we would talk about the possibility of saving civilization, but

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not from a political lens, but really from a art

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and culture lens. And so it was a great conversation

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late at night with some wonderful people, and I think

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you will definitely enjoy this.

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Speaker 2: This is Jonathan Pejel, Welcome to the Symbolic World. Hello everyone,

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we're here at the Art Conference in London. There's four

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thousand people at this conference, but there were quite a

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few very interesting Orthodox artists present. So I thought, let's

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gather us together and do a little roundtable discussion about

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the renewal of civilization from an arts and culture standpoint.

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We have here artist and illustrator Heather Pallington, Martin Shaw,

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author mystic hermit, Jonathan very Good, Jonathan pegeat icon Carver

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runs the Symbolic World publishing company. We have Ben Stamper, filmmaker,

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Vesper Stamper, artist, illustrator, author, Andrew Gould, designer of Orthodox

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churches and other traditional style buildings, and I won the

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Orthodox Arts Journal. We have Aiden Art, British iconographer. We

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have here Kate the Grade and Neil de Grade composers, musicians, filmmakers,

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and John Hears restaurant Tumada of Georgian Feasts. So we've

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all been a bit frustrated here at the art conference

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because well, what I mean is here at here at

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the art conference, you know, most of the speakers are

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are kind of on the policy and economics end of things,

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and so when they talk about the renewal of civilization, yeah,

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they're mostly talking about legislation and you know, human rights issues.

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But we artists want to talk about civilization from an

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arts and culture standpoint. So Aiden here, i know, was

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recently speaking about the topic of the effect of architecture

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and the environment on humanity. Would you lect to thank you.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I've been missingly reading a book put Patigsas when

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he talks about beauty first and then truth follows. And

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I think we think now to think of beauty is

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that I'm seeing on the cake. But I think true

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beauty has a profound effect on the soul. I have

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a saying I've developed recently that we act as we see.

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So if there's wrong action, if our civilization is decaying,

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then the question we need to ask is how are

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we seeing incorrectly? The Greek worth of repentance met a

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nooya means change of noose, and noose has often described

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as the eye of the heart, So a change of

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action is always preceded by the change of seeing. So

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I think the Christion of our civilization is in crisis.

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What's wrong is because of seeing incorrectly. And I was

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really interested in what Mike Johnson said today in one

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of the talks is that the foundation of concepts like

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human rights, human freedom, it is made in Gard's image.

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If there's a scizey that forgets that the made in

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Gard's image, which is beautiful, then all the other structures

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that develop from that collapse. So to me, repentances really

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to do with becoming beautiful again. Becoming beautiful again, and

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an orthodoxy because means right glory. The doxa can mean

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teacher and worship, but also glory. So really orthodoxy can

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be I think and understood as right beauty becoming beautiful again,

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And I think architecture, which is your fear. We were

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talking about this earlier that in England after the war,

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a lot of destruction have been brought by Vonning that

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to build lots of drummage. So in Birmingham, New I live,

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they've got lots of really ugly concrete blocks. The social

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problems were enormous, brutalized the people living there, and it

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became so expensive because of all the social problems. It

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was too bad to blow these his things up. And

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I got photographs of inga and then then it's more

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money making something look more beautiful. So ugliness is a president.

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I often thought we should be right the human rights,

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and truly then that I don't like the term of rights,

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but that's to say manners of right to beauty. It's

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not as mka, it's a human need. So a good civilization,

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what's beauty about genus town.

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Speaker 4: Players, architecture absolutely, and of course civilization somewhat specifically means

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civitas in city dwelling, A civilized people means people who

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live in cities as opposed to hunters gatherers, and.

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Speaker 2: We can see looking at the art of I would

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say the Victorian period more than any that civilization was

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built largely through civic architecture. When the British Empire would

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go around the world, they would one of the first

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things they would do, in a sense, to civilized countries

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was build things like train stations and you know, government

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buildings and so forth. And because these buildings were beautiful,

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it was actually a vision of civilization that people people

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could understand and believe in. And I do feel that

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the habit of the modern world to build even public

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civic architecture ugly is surely one of the things that

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has made modern people lose faith in all of the

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systems and institutions that supposedly constitute civilization.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting that the Bible begins with the guard that

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aids in the city. So the city should be the

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culmination of all human and jenna as the city is

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the union. Obviously the Bible, that's the union of the

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bide and the bridegroom, but it's also communion, a marriage

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one to another, which is beautiful. That's there's probably main

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meaning of beauty. I mean, the word art means to

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faically joined together. It's before meaning from ours artists, and

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the city is described as a joining together as a'tes

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of the architecture the people. Do you think architecture can

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be described as a garment that's tailored to fit the

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body and basically built city is a loving relationship with

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God that's the body, So the architecture were should start

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with men made in God's image and ugly architecture is

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like a mis fitting.

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Speaker 2: So you know it can talks to me to get

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into it, but not for sure. For sure, Yeah, there's

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a wonderful humanity and beautiful traditional architecture that it's human

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scaled and it seems ennoble by the presence of people

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in it. One often gets the feeling with modernistic architecture

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that people are a sort of impurity imposed upon it.

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You know, in magazines it's photographed empty with no people,

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looking christine and clean. But then when these modern buildings

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are actually used for a few years and there's there's

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smudges where people have bobbed up against the walls and

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everything's getting patentated and discolored. The building starts to look

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kind of terrible in contry. Asked to traditional architecture built

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out of timber and stone, these buildings get more beautiful

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with age. You know, the floors get polished by people

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walking on them, the timbers get burnished, the stones get

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beautifully discolored where people push against them. And you look

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at a five hundred year old stone and timber building

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and most of its beauty is the beauty of the

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people who have been using it for five hundred years.

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It really does have a symbiotic relationship with humanity.

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Speaker 5: There's also in Revelation, when it talked about the New Jerusalem,

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it says that the Jerusalem is adorned like a bride

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prepared to her groom.

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Speaker 6: So there's a sense in which.

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Speaker 5: The wall of the city now that's made out of

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precious jewels and his gold is a vestment, right, it

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is that that wedding dress that the civilization is putting

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on to encounter the son of man.

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Speaker 2: That's nice.

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Speaker 7: Well, I've been getting into something kind of strange, which is,

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every once in a while on Netflix, I'll pull up one

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of these ancient civilizations documentaries and well, why am.

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Speaker 2: I bringing that up?

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Speaker 7: Well, because I want to talk about something I think

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we don't see often like we can maybe bring to

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the conversation, which is that as soon as it seems

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that soon as civilizations began to appear and to develop

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architecture and buildings, they were attuned to what was above

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the heavens, and there seemed to be a natural human

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impulse to connect the heavens and the earth and that capacity,

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whether it's the pyramids and our lines of the radius

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of the earth or the astronomical events. And I don't

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when I go out and look at architecture the way

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we're building cities now, it doesn't I don't ever hear

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a discussion of that impulse or see that that's what

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people are trying to do anymore. So I'm always trying

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to get to the bottom of how to just happen,

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because I think this is well as a Christian the

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Lord's prayer, it will be done on earth.

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Speaker 8: As it is in heaven. I think this is something

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inniate to us.

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Speaker 7: That got put in us that either our technological build

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or the pace of our culture what we're doing is

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kind of blurred.

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Speaker 8: The idea that this is one of the flouints of architecture.

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Speaker 9: I feel like we saw this at the Guildhall, Like

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I mean just that bildings glorious and it's built on

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what Roman on a Roman amp and the theater and

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the beauty is like we're supposed to be reminded of

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what we're fighting righter the English were. I was so

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overwhelmed by the beauty of that. Help you, Yeah, it

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reminds you what you want.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Even in civic architecture, of secular civic architecture of

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the nineteenth century, there is a cosmic symbolism in it.

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Like in the US Capitol Building, you know, it's got

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a huge dome representing sort of universal dominion, and at

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the top of the dome is painted the Apotheosis of

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George Washington. It's sort of the civic Pantockta, you know,

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the America's God up there right. Yeah, and then it

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has the sense of sprawling out as a big four

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square footprint up on a hill that's like dominion over

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the four corners of the world. You know. Classical architecture

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has a lot of the same symbolism that we see

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in Orthodox churches. Yes, you know, with the Dome of

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Heaven and the Square of the Earth and the union

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of the two. But you're absolutely right that modern civic architecture,

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modernistic architecture is anti symbolism. It's it's abstract forms that

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you know, the architect may claim they symbolize something or other,

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but it's it's it's something personal that is only meaningful

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to him. It's not something universally recognizable.

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Speaker 3: Do you think as well as architecture fitting the human

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person made in large image, you can also work.

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Speaker 2: The other way, where.

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Speaker 3: It's actually larger and more sublime than we are, so

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we actually expand into it. We dont beautiful building. Actually

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it seems not a grobbling worm. You actually stand up

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or fill that space. Can it work that one as well?

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Actually it's ahead of you. It's rather it's fitting you. Yeah,

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that's just a thought I've had now.

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Speaker 5: Maximus, you know, he talks about the cosmo, says macro Anthropote,

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the idea that on the one end, we are a microcosmo,

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the cosmism the cosmos. It's an expansion also of the

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of the humans. And that's that's necessarily so because we

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also are the ones to perceive it.

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Speaker 8: We're the ones to give a meaning and to engage

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with it.

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Speaker 5: And so it appears, and so it's normal that people

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would build these buildings that would be.

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Speaker 2: Almost like kind of like this expansion of the human

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scale into the into the cosmic.

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Speaker 8: That's probably why we feel the way we do partly

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in these buildings.

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Speaker 2: Rather you know, the.

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Speaker 10: Difference between for example here like this building here where

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we are.

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Speaker 2: It's so it's so arbitrary.

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Speaker 10: I mean everything about it is arbitrary, and the spaces

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are contrived and the sizes are weird. We don't untotally

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understand what these large halls that are just very strange

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and abstract, and so there's everybody feels awkward in the

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space and disoriented.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't actually know how and it's made to know

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where what to do and where to go. But you

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actually feel the opposite.

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Speaker 11: If you have the art the architecture of the table

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as a superron, if you try to do it at

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a circle, immediately the com of that is confusing.

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Speaker 2: Who's the leader of the table?

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Speaker 12: Who to And immediately the toasts become democratic in nature.

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Speaker 11: You see it all if you lived the head of

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the table and you you really can speak that you

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can still be.

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Speaker 2: Ahead and present and as an image of the head.

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Speaker 11: But the toast change, much like if you build a

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certain kind of building within it, I might grow into it.

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You change the table, and the toasts change, and the

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way people interact change and better or worship.

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Speaker 2: Can argue, but you can't do a super somewhere. You

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can't do a Georgia chief the same way.

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Speaker 8: Changing unless the novelty of King Arthur and the round table.

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Speaker 7: Right, there's an equality to the perceptions in that setting. Right,

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there's moments for that's good, but also you don't know

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where to look. Like we were used to focusing on

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a thing and the other things blurred to griffering.

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Speaker 2: Did you feel that in the room today?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Did you feel it? I think everyone wants to say, God,

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you said it. Last year I said this, yere said

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the shoe. Yeah.

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Speaker 13: I think that's a lot of people said supply so much.

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Speaker 5: So last year very few people said it, by the way,

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I think a lot of people, in my opinion, today

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did try.

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Speaker 2: But there was a lot of cusbulary.

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Speaker 11: But I wonder if the whole when they understand andros

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as meeting guards image. I think we say it, I

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don't really know that. That's crazy transit. That's the way

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and not your people actually believe it, and I'm not

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sure after that, I en I'm seeing that in there,

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which is like they know what they're saying.

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Speaker 2: Tell them.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm interested Martin that the phrase you use,

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you're like an architect of words. You said you want

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to rehydrate the expression of the Christian truth. So we're

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talking about an architecture that as it follows archetypes, so

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there's a continuity, but you're wanting to say the same

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things but in a fresh way that wakes us up.

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That you know, it's like each actual Orthodox church and

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ten Orthodox church is equally beautiful. But this diversity, so

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each one of those must have been a little bit

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different than I've speaking seen.

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Speaker 2: Before and have to wake them up.

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Speaker 3: I'd like to what you have to say about this

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rehydrating the expression of timeless truths.

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Speaker 13: Well, whenever a culture is in crisis, the genius required

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never comes from the center of the round taking. It

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comes from the edge. It's something that the Kalahari bushman though.

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This obsession with screens that we have, it's hypnotic and

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it's trance involving and good Christianity causes you to see

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out of the edges. Of your vision, all these strange

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trembling bells that are around us. So that's why you

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have all these Arthurian nights, charging off all of the

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time into the forest. Now, yesterday, only yesterday, I was

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at liturgy in Doorway and it was a wonderful experience.

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The deep interior was reached. And then someone asked me

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what was the most meaningful part of the liturgy for

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you yesterday? I said, it was when the door briefly

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opened and I heard seagulls.

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Speaker 2: That was the moment. That was the moment.

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Speaker 13: And that's the Irish in me, that's the Irish in me.

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Speaker 2: Where it is we talk today.

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Speaker 13: About the notion that the soul is probably much bigger

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than the body. You know, we're always chestering to our chest,

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But any Aboriginal understanding, any for me, the Christian understanding

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of the soul is something that you go walk about in.

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And so when you build culture, and I'm a fan

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of Christian culture, I believe in Christian culture. But the

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word culture comes from Colaire, which means to dig, means

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to dig. So as artists, we dig, whether, as Seamus

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Heiney says, we dig with our pen or we dig

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with our quill or we dig with our spade. We're

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involved in something that actually is taking us down. I'm

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interested in the Christianity of the Lascalcades as well as

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i am the Notre Dame Cathedral. I'm interested in a

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way the underworld of Christianity as well as the overworld.

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That once you can design things, you have a different

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kind of sacred space to going into the caves.

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Speaker 2: And just because of.

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Speaker 13: The way, some of you will know the story of

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how God revealed himself to be. It came in a

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very unusual fashion, and I have to be loyal at

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his lovely I will be loyal to the bells of

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my village, will be loyal to the bells of my experience.

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And that is telling me to keep an eye out

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for the Gospel of the Cornorage, and the Gospel of

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the seagulls, and the Gospel of the green teeth of

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the river.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, sorry, I'm taking space.

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Speaker 14: Reminds me of a time that I gave a drink

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of water to a friend in this green glass. It

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was like it was this green gobblet that we had

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and it was just this really handcrafted, hand blown glass

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cup and he and it was very heavy, and he

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picked it up and he took a swig of water

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and he said, that.

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Speaker 2: Is a Christian drink. And you know, and and uh,

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what he was saying.

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Speaker 14: I think it touches on what you're saying, Martin, is

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this idea that there's a there's.

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Speaker 2: There Christian culture, that.

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Speaker 14: That's a that's like a testament, you know, to what

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Christian culture can be. Something that is so has weight

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and that has substance, that is rooted in reality. It's

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rooted in something that that has it extends beyond its use,

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you know. And I always remember that because it can

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transform a cup of water, you can give it something,

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it's like it's full essence of its water.

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Speaker 2: Consider Consider how material things are able to bring out

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the image of God in people. And of course clothes

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are ennobling. Someone wearing really beautiful clothes, you know, look

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looks like like you know, it looks like looks like

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a far more complete human being, a more noble creature.

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An architecture of course does this as well. Just just yesterday,

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I was touring Hampton Court Palace and I was so

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struck that in the setting of that palace and gardens,

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just seeing another person a tourist, anybody in that setting.

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You know, they look like princes and princesses. I was

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just amazed how beautiful people look like. They look like,

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you know, storybook characters, like like more real than the

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mundane people of the everyday world. And a whole city

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can do this. Of course, when you're in a really

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beautiful historic city where all of the all the buildings

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and streets are beautiful, people seem more real than when

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you're in an ugly city and people seem like mere

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shadows of themselves. You know, my mindless ghosts suffering through life,

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sort of the jock and they sculptures, you know, the

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people wandering.

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Speaker 14: They're very thin sculptures that they're wandering in space, but

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they're not interacting. They're walking in different directions and they're

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never intersected.

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Speaker 2: So I see, I see beautiful civic art and architecture

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in general as in a way an analogous project to

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the work of churches of actually trying to make the

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image of God shine through us more clearly.

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Speaker 13: I do you remember the old Ethiopian idea that the

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church is a little dodgy if there isn't a forest

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around it. Wonderful yes, a lot of these Ethiopian churches

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they build forests around the church because the forest, the

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church is going to die of loneliness. It's going to

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die of loneliness if it doesn't have a forest around it.

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I'm thinking now of the great patron Saint of Orthodox

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and William Play, who would say Jesus is the imagination,

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and you can't be a Christian without becoming an artist.

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But because once that wily quixotic teacher gets inside you,

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he's going to bend your head and you're going to

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start seeing the fall, and you're going to start seeing

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the rapturing as that is happening through his eyes. And

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I just wonder throwing the question out to us, if

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you could make a city, what would it look like?

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Speaker 2: You would yours look like?

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Speaker 3: Do you think every prophets every city needs its profits

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and the prophits need a city. So you do the

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seagull outside and flying around free, the seaself without the

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church of being complete, and the church without the forest

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and the ocean. When as a hermit I had the

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frisco of the chapel, which is like the city. You

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had all the same surround of his organized at a

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geometric pattern on the floor. But iping a lot of

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time there train the liturgy was the work of the city.

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But then also i'd go up to the hills. The

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wild hills are cyclo stones to pay the Jesus play,

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and one needs.

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Speaker 2: Of the other. That's it. It's the thread.

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Speaker 13: It's why we need the monastics so desperately.

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Speaker 2: But there's something about chivalry.

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Speaker 13: There's something about gallantry. There's something about that happened in

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the twelfth and thirteenth century that it has enormous clues

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for us as Christians that are going to have families,

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We're going to have kids, and we're going to have

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to reach out and.

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Speaker 2: Touch the world.

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Speaker 13: And the wonderful thing.

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Speaker 2: Is we don't have to choose one over the other.

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Speaker 13: We can live as This is psychologists saying in the

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tension of the opposites, So as Christians, we are both

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steadfast and restless.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's artistically cool.

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Speaker 1: This is it, folks, This might just be the combination

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00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,039
of my life's work. Join me for the Symbolism master

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00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,640
class this April twenty twenty five. During this course, I'll

408
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,759
take you by the hand into the essentials and depths

409
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:50,119
of symbolic thinking. Over six weeks and over eighteen hours

410
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,079
of lectures and Q and as in a concise and

411
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,720
comprehensive way, I'll teach you everything about how I think,

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so that by the end you might see the world anew.

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00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,000
This class will not only be an introduction, but also

414
00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:06,839
a deep dive into a way of seeing that cuts

415
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,359
right through our secular dead end. It reconnects the ancient

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religious ideas with some of the most cutting edge notions

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of complexity developed today. As the world is shaking and

418
00:23:19,079 --> 00:23:23,519
changing at an increasingly rapid pace, being able to read

419
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the patterns of reality will give you an anchor and

420
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,559
a solid sense of what is up and what is down.

421
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,720
In this class, we will talk about so many things

422
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about heaven and earth, the sacred and the secular, the Bible, dragons, demons, fairies.

423
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,839
Will explore the surprising value of conspiracy theories, how symbolic

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00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,240
patterns are found in movies and science philosophy. Art will

425
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,720
look at the relationship of symbolism to natural selection. We'll

426
00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:54,960
look at the basic patterns of the world of sacrifice,

427
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,200
of the center, the margin, the masculine, the feminine, the mountain,

428
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,759
time in space, left, and right. It will be a

429
00:24:02,799 --> 00:24:07,599
synthesis of everything I've covered in the five hundred YouTube

430
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,799
videos that put out over the years, and much more

431
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,359
as well, now all in a structure that has one purpose,

432
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,680
which is to make you a master of symbolic thinking.

433
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,519
This is your opportunity to get to the core of

434
00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:24,279
what symbolism is, to ask questions, to test out your ideas,

435
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,759
and to make sure you have a strong foundation of

436
00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:31,079
the fundamentals. Plus getting some hidden gems that I'd never

437
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shared before. So don't miss out on the live experience

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and register today.

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00:24:37,599 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 15: There was a few years ago we were in the

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Tate Modern and my family knows this was a really

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rough experience for me. I don't do well with brutalism,

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and the entire time that we were in there, I

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felt like the building was going to fall down on me.

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I felt extremely threatened and claustrophobic. And as we're talking,

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I was thinking about that experience. As you know, the

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Tate is built as a temple to art, you know,

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and in all of this civic architecture that you're talking about,

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there's a sense in which these buildings are temples to

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human beings, you know, whether it's a civic building or

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a church that they're ennobling to the human being, right,

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But when you have a temple to art, it's kind

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of like the underworld. It's the upside down of that,

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you know, and you can feel like the artwork is

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sort of this disembodied thing that we that we worship

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and it doesn't have anything to do with you, you know,

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it's externalized where and this is a really modern thing.

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You know, when we started building these temples to art

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or taking art out of the churches or out of

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the palaces and putting them in their own buildings, it

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was at the time where this, you know, the conception

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of the human being was really like following apart.

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Speaker 13: You know.

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Speaker 15: And so now we have this this myth of the

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genius artist as the person to be worshiped, as the

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endity be worshiped and the things that they make. But

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you can you can just as easily fake those things,

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you know, if they're not connected to the human person

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creating them, you know, from a body that's just one

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of you, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Something you said here this is today really struck me.

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Your design and filmed is the first thing is to

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capture the spirit understand the spirit of that impoch. All

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the details are doing true to that spirit, otherwise it

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doesn't work a job. So that's only what you're saying.

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You don't know what why are you're creating that city?

476
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,519
Why treatment building? You have a vision and.

477
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:36,839
Speaker 2: Designs on vision?

478
00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 15: If these are sort of temples to human beings in

479
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,519
a way, right, it's because we're made in the image

480
00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:47,119
of God that we deserve it in a sense, you know,

481
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,119
And so if if it's removed from the human aspect

482
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,160
of it and it's just a temple to itself, that's

483
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,119
why it feels like to me help.

484
00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 14: But I think also I think that's talking about the

485
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,960
intent to market the architect.

486
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,519
Speaker 2: But also I think it's important to.

487
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,279
Speaker 14: Consider the patterns of humans and how they move through

488
00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:10,519
space and what space does to them.

489
00:27:10,519 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: Because good architecture.

490
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:21,319
Speaker 14: Or good art in general, it includes that information in

491
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,279
its designs. And so that why do you walk into

492
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:29,599
a building and suddenly feel at ease, It's likely because

493
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,240
it follows the patterns of human nature and accommodates, you know,

494
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,559
there's human centric I'm.

495
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,559
Speaker 16: Talking to Andrew today about the layout when we have lunch,

496
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,119
and I think that's one the single most thing that's

497
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,680
most disturbing about our environment is so I didn't understand

498
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,079
at first.

499
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 6: I was like, why are we directed like this?

500
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 16: And Andrew said, oh, it's a completely flexible space, so

501
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,000
you can open all those doors and we.

502
00:27:53,079 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 6: Configure the whole thing, and I realized there.

503
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,599
Speaker 16: Isn't even a single purpose to the thing that we're in,

504
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,079
which is why we all feel strange, like it's lot

505
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,200
of this filming would have a sense of an entrance

506
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,720
and an exit, but this is even worse.

507
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:07,279
Speaker 2: It feels like it feels like a laboratory at me

508
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,000
opening a door or moving to see what see if

509
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,480
they can figure out where to go next. Yeah, absolutely,

510
00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:14,960
that's true.

511
00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:19,839
Speaker 17: When when we were in the film world, it's like

512
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:23,240
architecture kind of on steroids because everything gets decided very quickly,

513
00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:26,920
and you basically have a story or an idea and

514
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,240
we'd have to move quite quickly and test it and

515
00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:33,720
actually building something as a way of testing out your ideas.

516
00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:35,640
So I know you said at the beginning, aid and

517
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,880
it's like you have the principle has to be right

518
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,240
at first, which is true, but then the process of

519
00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:43,359
building will test those ideas out and show things that

520
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,200
are false, that could fall away. And I've had the

521
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,079
sense that the last stark and this want of de

522
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,200
that some of the ideas I've been hearing don't they

523
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,880
don't quite hear, they're inconsistent. And what I want to

524
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,680
say is like, show me the building that represents that

525
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,400
philosophy and then we can see what it is, because

526
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,720
at the moment that to me doesn't make sense.

527
00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:05,119
Speaker 6: You can't build that tenual.

528
00:29:07,079 --> 00:29:09,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, but I.

529
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 16: Should stand because there's you thought about how to represent that.

530
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 2: Sorry.

531
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,799
Speaker 15: There was the one talk about energy where it was

532
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:21,440
presented as a positive that people were pulled out of

533
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:27,039
the fields and put into factories, and I thought, breaking, no, no, no.

534
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,079
Speaker 2: You know, in America, there used to be a phrase

535
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,880
the palace of the people. When when When when the

536
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,119
Victorian era Americans built these huge domed capitol buildings, the

537
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,279
state houses, that's what they called them, is a palace

538
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,000
of the people, to distinguish them from a palace for

539
00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:47,359
the king or the aristocrat in the old world. And

540
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,759
yet these buildings they actually are kind of laid out

541
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:54,400
like palaces. They'll have a huge sort of rotunda and

542
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,720
grand staircase that's mainly for the purpose of seeing well

543
00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:02,400
dressed people coming and going theatrically on display. And then

544
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,519
they have exits out to the grounds and the gardens

545
00:30:05,599 --> 00:30:07,960
just in every direction. You can just come into the building,

546
00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:10,079
you can see and be seen, you can walk out.

547
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:14,359
It's a very old fashioned aristocratic concept of civic architecture.

548
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,000
You know. In fact, all of those state houses have

549
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:20,599
to have another ugly modern building next to them or

550
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,880
buried in the earth under them, where they have all

551
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,480
of the offices with secure corridors and locked doors. That's

552
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,799
where the real business takes place. Because really the actual

553
00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:33,000
the actual palace of the people, it's totally public. It's

554
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:38,480
it's designed that way. But that's and but those buildings

555
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,559
they have the ennoble in quality that you know, all

556
00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:43,839
these talks we're hearing at ARC are about of, you know,

557
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,440
the fullness of human civilization. People have to interact, they

558
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,359
have to see each other, they have to go up

559
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,200
and look down, and go down and look up, and

560
00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:54,680
everybody can find their place in a building like that.

561
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,559
The extroverts can come out under the dome and the

562
00:30:57,559 --> 00:31:01,559
introverts can walk back under the under the balconies, and

563
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,519
it's really beautiful. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's it's where you

564
00:31:05,599 --> 00:31:08,519
contrast to that to a modern building that's you know,

565
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,480
designed as a machine for for some social purpose, like

566
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,680
like you know, can compare a classical art museum that's

567
00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:19,759
that's sort of like what I just described to Frank

568
00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:23,799
Lloyd White's Guggenheim Art Museum in New York, where the

569
00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:25,400
the only way to go to that museum is you

570
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,480
take an elevator to the top and then you walk

571
00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:30,720
down the descending heelicle ramp and then then you get

572
00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:33,400
spat out at the bottom. It's like you can only

573
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,720
use that building one way. So the people in the

574
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,160
building just feel like ball bearing is, you know, going

575
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,359
down a kinetic sculpture. They don't, you know, there's no

576
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,519
place for people to have any individuality in that concept

577
00:31:44,519 --> 00:31:45,359
of architecture.

578
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,079
Speaker 15: I'm interested to know from like the musical. We've been

579
00:31:49,119 --> 00:31:52,240
talking a lot about architecture, but like from the musical perspective,

580
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:55,279
how do you how can you create a space?

581
00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:57,599
Speaker 9: But I think it keeps coming to my mind, which

582
00:31:57,599 --> 00:32:01,200
I'm certainly not an expert, but is that today I

583
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:03,119
kept having people come to me and tell me that

584
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,960
the songs were their favorite part of our song and

585
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,759
then someone else saying too, and.

586
00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 8: It's it's very nice.

587
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:10,839
Speaker 9: Yeah, but no, but many times it was like that

588
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,440
was the moment for me. Yeah, thanks nem so, And

589
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,720
that's what they represented ten minutes maybe, yeah, you know,

590
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,319
at least the songs. And so I do think that

591
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:26,799
something can get across through music, so it can pierce

592
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:27,839
the hearts.

593
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:29,559
Speaker 6: If it's beautiful.

594
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 7: It's a presentation of art. It's not representational. We can't

595
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:34,440
explain it exactly why it work. How do we take

596
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,319
these frequencies and time and turn them into something we

597
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:39,680
can name and have a feeling of it that you

598
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,079
can't experience all at the same time. It's linear, like

599
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,000
reading versus looking at a picture, which is simultaneous. So

600
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,680
music it falls into a linear art. But when I

601
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,559
think about what you guys are talking about too, So

602
00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:53,519
this is something I've been working on in music a lot,

603
00:32:53,599 --> 00:32:57,839
because it's very hard in just music to point at

604
00:32:58,039 --> 00:33:00,880
a thing like what thing are you pointing out to me?

605
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:01,839
Speaker 2: What does that remind you?

606
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 7: It's like, you know, you can think of classical pieces

607
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,279
like Peter and the Wolf, where it's it's mimicking animal

608
00:33:06,319 --> 00:33:08,160
behavior and stuff, and you can get a sense on

609
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,559
why these things translate back and forth. But I think

610
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,519
that part of the problem of what we're talking about

611
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,640
is hit the music industry and has hit it's hit

612
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,680
architecture and civilization in general, is that I have so

613
00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:25,279
much abstract art I really love and because their game.

614
00:33:25,319 --> 00:33:27,440
I love the game of abstract art to a point

615
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,279
where it is how far can we take it from

616
00:33:29,319 --> 00:33:31,279
what you're familiar with? And you still see the golden

617
00:33:31,319 --> 00:33:33,599
thread in the impact And there's some abstract art that

618
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,200
does this so wonderfully. But the exploration of that also

619
00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:41,680
began to blur what things really are and what they're not. Because,

620
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,119
for example, if people on both sides and someone in

621
00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:48,359
Hollywood gets up and they're like, they state their political.

622
00:33:48,079 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: Views, you're fine with it, so you disagree, and.

623
00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 7: Then you're like, artists shut up about their political views, right,

624
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:56,000
it's because okay, So the problem with the naming, the definitiveness,

625
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,920
and the idea that we're looking for something objective, a

626
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,559
solid place to stand man that doesn't afford people their

627
00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:06,200
own dominion. So there was something about abstraction where that blur, Like,

628
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:07,599
you know, you go to the art museum with your

629
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,920
art teacher and I'm in Boston. This actually happens, and

630
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,840
we're looking at this abstract piece of art and he's like,

631
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,039
what do you guys think it is? Someone's like it's

632
00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:17,159
a Mediterranean villa, and the other person's like it's a duck.

633
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,719
And you're like, this is not this is not necessarily helpful,

634
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,400
like this is a weird game. But that blur allows us,

635
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,880
what it affords us the opportunity to take sort of

636
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,199
that idea of God naming and deciding and ordaining and

637
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,239
bringing it into our own hands and using it.

638
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 8: For our own purposes.

639
00:34:35,039 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 7: So I think this is part of what we're fighting against,

640
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,039
is that when things point, it doesn't fit the modern

641
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,280
mindset that we've been brought up on, where the subjective

642
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:46,000
is what's important.

643
00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 13: We live in a culture that supports any spiritual seeker.

644
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,320
They're gonna hate you if you find something.

645
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: They're going to hate now Tolkien.

646
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,679
Speaker 13: Tolkien had a very interesting thing to say about Irish myth.

647
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,719
He said, Irish myth as opposed to Anglo Saxon or

648
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,920
the Wonderful Norse pantheon. He said, it's like a beautiful

649
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,960
stained glass window that someone has shucked a stone through.

650
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,639
He said, it is unreasoned, and he said, the Irish

651
00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:19,360
are unreasoned, and I'm writing a book at the moment

652
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,400
explaining why that's part of the genius of the Irish.

653
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,519
And actually, as an artist, as a brick alure, there's

654
00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:29,239
a lot you can do with things when you're left

655
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,440
in the rubble. Don't despair, take courage. Take courage because actually,

656
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,840
and I think this is this leads us towards talking

657
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,800
about orthodoxy. Orthodoxy and I find tremendously interesting as an.

658
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,760
Speaker 2: Artist because from a distance it.

659
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,519
Speaker 13: Looks like it's all about tradition, but you get in there,

660
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:51,079
you get in there, and there's tremendous creative vitality. And actually,

661
00:35:51,199 --> 00:35:54,679
simply by the business of being troubled human beings, we

662
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,119
can't help but keep the thing moving along. But often

663
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:03,159
it's about accident that then a trump state, with innovation

664
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,320
and originality being the thing. When the thing comes, God

665
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,039
is in the house.

666
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

667
00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 5: Then, when people often ask me if I'm making icons,

668
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:16,280
you know, how do I express myself or should I

669
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,280
express myself or should I even think about that?

670
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 8: And I always tell them, just just do the thing

671
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,400
and then you'll be in there.

672
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 2: Don't worry about that.

673
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,559
Speaker 8: If you worry about it, that's when it becomes weird.

674
00:36:26,559 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 2: But if you just if you just do the thing,

675
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,599
and you make the images in.

676
00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 5: Service of God and in service of the Church, then

677
00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:33,480
people will.

678
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 8: See your hand in there.

679
00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:36,679
Speaker 2: But you don't just don't have to make it.

680
00:36:37,199 --> 00:36:41,679
Speaker 14: The purpose, as it turns out, is not a primarily

681
00:36:41,679 --> 00:36:44,119
a form of self expression.

682
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

683
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 5: I mean I can recognize Adien's icon from you know,

684
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,000
like very far away.

685
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's Aiden's icon. Yeah, but that's the

686
00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:53,239
point of what he's doing.

687
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 3: It's fastesting how relations It talks about a name being

688
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,639
given to someone that doesn't take it better invented, and

689
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,039
often it's it's before her this, I can't lead my

690
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:09,239
floydad You've gotten to reveal.

691
00:37:09,199 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: My name to me, so it's immediately I make up it.

692
00:37:12,599 --> 00:37:13,599
Just really expressful.

693
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 3: I'm say, serprom sid When I don't name the an,

694
00:37:18,119 --> 00:37:21,320
it was an arbitrary He's perceived the log offs of

695
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:26,519
that animal, and that name is a manifestation of the

696
00:37:26,639 --> 00:37:28,800
character of that particular thing.

697
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 15: I think a lot about the current mindset of artists

698
00:37:35,199 --> 00:37:40,119
as activists, and it seems like it's you know, you

699
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:42,800
start with the activism, you start with the message that

700
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,519
you want to convey and you sort of apply it

701
00:37:45,559 --> 00:37:49,440
to a medium, whether that's painting or music or architecture

702
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,480
or whatever. And this is why it doesn't feel right,

703
00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:56,880
because it's it's applied. It's not coming from from the

704
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,880
soul or from the heart. And I think a lot

705
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,119
about how as artists we begin the work in the body,

706
00:38:03,519 --> 00:38:06,199
you know, we receive stimulus, we process it through our

707
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,719
five senses before we before it's pre verbal, you know,

708
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:13,840
and that's where the work comes from. And that's the

709
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,599
work that people respond to on on that same pre

710
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,440
verbal level because they're feeling it in their own bodies,

711
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,079
Whereas when you start with a kind of you know,

712
00:38:23,199 --> 00:38:27,719
message based or vehicle based kind of thing, it's forgettable.

713
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,920
It's it's instantly forgettable. It doesn't touch people on that level.

714
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,679
And I think that it doesn't matter what your political

715
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,199
persuasion is. People on the left can do it.

716
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 6: People on the you know, I see the.

717
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 15: Conservatives trying to you know, get into the the art

718
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,519
making world, and a lot of it is really bad.

719
00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you know, I'm going to say it. No,

720
00:38:46,679 --> 00:38:49,159
no one heres, no.

721
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 15: But a lot of it is really bad because it's like, well,

722
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:56,519
you know, we have this the moral of the children's book.

723
00:38:56,559 --> 00:38:58,320
You know, I have a book about this thing, and

724
00:38:58,920 --> 00:38:59,920
that's not what stories.

725
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: But that's not what and he died in front of that.

726
00:39:10,199 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 15: But it's not what a story is. It's not what

727
00:39:12,559 --> 00:39:15,519
a book is. It's not what a child is, you know.

728
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 9: And what about the healing aspect of art as a creator,

729
00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:23,039
not just the art we make for others, but what

730
00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:25,400
it does to you to create us and how that

731
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:29,119
changes society, Like how many addictions have been healers you're

732
00:39:29,159 --> 00:39:32,079
learning the garden or taking up a craft, like we

733
00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:35,320
need art to heal also INDI.

734
00:39:37,199 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 18: In human presence, right, I think aiden something said at

735
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,320
the beginning was terribly beauty.

736
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 13: And beauty the etymology of the word, you know is

737
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,719
Anglo French, and there's butty in it. And it's also

738
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,440
to do with a wonderful thing about beauty in the

739
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,800
etymology of the what is to do with actually how

740
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,800
you behave It should do with courtesy. So with brigands

741
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,440
like us, the good news is that we can work

742
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,480
on ourselves. So you know, there's there's a there's the

743
00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:14,480
best form of beauty has theosis in it. And theosis

744
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:17,079
from an Irish perspective would be this phrase, and I'm

745
00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:21,880
going to give you gold now top onto yourself, on yourself.

746
00:40:23,079 --> 00:40:30,760
It means it means be wise to your nonsense, wise

747
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:39,880
away bar and so so I love the notion that beauty, beauty,

748
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:43,239
real beauty actually has trouble in it because reverie always

749
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,280
leads to participation.

750
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:45,559
Speaker 2: It's not passive.

751
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 13: Actually, beauty is going to open a door. And if

752
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,360
ever I meet someone who is significantly irritated by the

753
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,559
Christian part of my life, which is my whole life,

754
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,280
you go to beauty, lean into beauty to find out

755
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,519
what temple they serve in, because we're all serving in

756
00:41:04,519 --> 00:41:06,760
one or another, and take it from there. But this

757
00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:10,519
notion of beauty and how we recognize it very interesting

758
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:10,880
in me.

759
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: The art of Tamada and Georgia is a oral traditional

760
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,039
handed down to there's a debate about how fart down.

761
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,239
Some people say it's really seventeenth century. I think it

762
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:24,480
goes back to the God babies.

763
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 12: Tamada's job is to literally not think about what he

764
00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:34,400
wants you to know, but it's to imbive what you need.

765
00:41:34,679 --> 00:41:38,719
Has heard this moment, and so there's something about what

766
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,719
Shan you were saying is the Irish job is to

767
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,800
fall back right and to fall into everyone else.

768
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: And so I like the idea you're really adhering to

769
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,679
others and making the art.

770
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 11: And it really resonates as a tamata because there's so

771
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,079
many times you want to tell the table about what

772
00:41:57,119 --> 00:42:00,559
they should not, which I think that's that art, that

773
00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:03,280
that's the art you're describing. But somehow you have to

774
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,719
say something, And so I find myself imbibing you in

775
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,119
the moment, and then the toast to you, to all

776
00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:12,800
of us is really about you and it's not about

777
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:13,679
me if I do it right.

778
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,679
Speaker 2: It's hard to do it right. I think it's revealed

779
00:42:16,679 --> 00:42:17,280
through the doing.

780
00:42:18,039 --> 00:42:21,519
Speaker 15: You know, it's not again, it's not applied through my will,

781
00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:25,679
but it's it's by making the thing that's occurring to

782
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,679
me to make at the time, it reveals its own meaning.

783
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:31,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been.

784
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,519
Speaker 3: Proven to novelist would often say, you've got to show

785
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,760
tell You've got to be the fact.

786
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: It makes a bit completed the reader.

787
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 3: Now I get I guessing that now that I'm told

788
00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:45,800
me that to manifested in the story, that's yeah, it goes.

789
00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 14: Back to what you were saying earlier about beauty and

790
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,559
how you know it's the It's what Jesus said, if

791
00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:55,360
the if the eye is bad, the body is full

792
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,119
of darkness. And the opposite is true as well, you know,

793
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,039
and if that is good, the body is full of light.

794
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,000
You know, our work as artists, the real work is

795
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:11,960
done behind closed doors. The real work is done offline,

796
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,159
and so that we can bring an offering that isn't

797
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,000
centered on ourselves.

798
00:43:19,519 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 3: That might you think on the central books in Orthodox

799
00:43:22,039 --> 00:43:23,679
he's a piller career of a love at the beauty

800
00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:25,599
of one, and what is about It's a warment about

801
00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:27,599
me in the life. I was looking at the original

802
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:29,960
Greek that the prodigal Sun's story in the regional Greek

803
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,079
can be translated as and it came into himself before

804
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:37,239
we've been wandering around in the material world, I mean,

805
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,000
when all the material world have been wasted, he returned

806
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,880
into himself. Bridge's monastic cell went into the closet and played,

807
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,400
and that became beautiful. He remembered the beauty of us

808
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:54,239
hiring being returned. Tolkien calls that anotherage thing.

809
00:43:55,039 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 13: He has this idea that it's great to always have

810
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,719
something but to lose something and find it again has

811
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,000
an entirely.

812
00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 2: Different energy to it.

813
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 13: The recovered thing you will treasure, you will hold on to,

814
00:44:10,039 --> 00:44:12,119
you have you have a reasonable defense for it.

815
00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 7: So when something, as a kid, were received stuff implicitly,

816
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,920
we take it for granted, and then maybe we move

817
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,039
away from it, and then we don't know it was

818
00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:21,599
good until we start to feel the loss of it.

819
00:44:21,639 --> 00:44:23,239
And sometimes you don't even know what you lost and

820
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,199
where you're looking for and where did I lose it?

821
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,760
And then but when it's recovered, if it's recovered correctly,

822
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:31,719
you don't just get it back. You get the ability

823
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,639
to defend it to yourself and the others back.

824
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,559
Speaker 2: Isn't that the energy of the convert? That's what you

825
00:44:36,679 --> 00:44:39,400
see someone say, no, they got something new.

826
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,199
Speaker 11: But I think they were turning to what they already

827
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:44,039
were level because.

828
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:49,079
Speaker 19: There's a lot of energy in its converts.

829
00:44:54,559 --> 00:44:56,159
Speaker 2: The only cradle, I think.

830
00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 8: Is there a cradle?

831
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:09,559
Speaker 20: No, you're not you I saw, So he went, yeah,

832
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:11,159
I was.

833
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 7: I was gonna ask a question because there's a thing

834
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,920
that happens, and I want to know there's a part.

835
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:18,239
Sometimes when I talk about art, it's a reverse engineering

836
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,159
of something that's happening to me intuitively, and the sense

837
00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:23,159
that my process does not reflect the way I talk

838
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:24,559
about it after you.

839
00:45:24,519 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 8: Guys, well, I don't mean to.

840
00:45:27,079 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 7: So what you do is using kind of like like

841
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,639
I'll have moment singill hit me. I'll be working on

842
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,320
a problem like in the world in my life, I'll cry,

843
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,440
I'll pound the floor when I'm creating, like I'm weird

844
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,719
and emotional, like I'm not. Well, you guys probably can

845
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,239
kiss so anyway, but I get really like my whole

846
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,639
self gets involved in it and I'm not truly thinking,

847
00:45:47,159 --> 00:45:50,280
like I wouldn't say I'm thinking, And you do it,

848
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,840
and for some reason, something just lands with you, like

849
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,360
when someone gives you a riddle and you go away

850
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:54,960
and you solve it.

851
00:45:55,039 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 8: You know you had the right answer, even though the

852
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:57,559
person isn't.

853
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: There to tell you. Because it locked.

854
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 7: It landed, and something locked because that lands, and I

855
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,559
love it and I fight for it and I make

856
00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:05,000
it come into existence and then I figure out why,

857
00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:06,480
and then I talk about that.

858
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:08,679
Speaker 8: But that's not how it came to me, you know

859
00:46:08,679 --> 00:46:09,159
what I mean?

860
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,079
Speaker 7: So like, cause we're talking about this intentionality and I

861
00:46:12,119 --> 00:46:14,719
don't know how to my worst stuff I've done is

862
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,880
someone hired me for a project with a goal, with

863
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:19,880
an outcome. Here's what I wanted to do to the audience,

864
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,039
and it's like, I don't know how to do that,

865
00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:23,440
Like if you ask me to do it that way,

866
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,039
I don't know how I like. So, but do you

867
00:46:26,079 --> 00:46:28,559
guys feel that way? Can you like what we're talking about?

868
00:46:28,639 --> 00:46:30,559
Can you think about it and then go and do

869
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:33,480
something and make it achieve that in civilization or is

870
00:46:33,519 --> 00:46:35,360
it just something you're in tune with and hopefully it

871
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:36,079
has that effect.

872
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 5: Well, I mean civilizational art is the opposite of what

873
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,360
you're saying in the sense that it's ay Aiden or Andrew.

874
00:46:43,559 --> 00:46:47,159
And if we make icons, we are making something that

875
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,320
is commissioned and ask for something, and then you attend

876
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,840
to their need and then you adapt obviously your skill

877
00:46:55,039 --> 00:46:57,159
and your thought to that need. And so there's a

878
00:46:57,199 --> 00:47:00,599
discussion between the patron and the person in doing it.

879
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 8: But I also know what you mean.

880
00:47:02,559 --> 00:47:04,599
Speaker 2: Like I in other ways.

881
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,679
Speaker 5: With stories and other parts of my creative life, I

882
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,360
have more of that experience, which is more of something

883
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,679
just drops into you and you know, you love it.

884
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 7: Just got to exist because that's how I started as

885
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,559
an artists. There are movies I couldn't see. My parents

886
00:47:17,559 --> 00:47:19,159
went to see Jaws or something like that. I couldn't

887
00:47:19,159 --> 00:47:21,760
see it, and so my mom tell me about jobs. Oh,

888
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,119
I can tell you about it. So I went home

889
00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:25,159
and drew it. I drew the panels. I'm like, man,

890
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:26,519
my clothes is this would have looked like when they

891
00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:29,639
kick and because I wanted to see it so bad,

892
00:47:29,639 --> 00:47:30,760
but that's never stopped.

893
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:31,599
Speaker 8: That's always the thing.

894
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,599
Speaker 7: So yeah, I feel I do feel like a little

895
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:34,800
bit of a fraud when I talk about on the

896
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,159
other end, because I think that's what's happening. It's just

897
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,039
me reverse engineering the intuitive process. But what you're talking

898
00:47:40,039 --> 00:47:42,480
about civilization art makes perfect sense to me. I just

899
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:43,000
don't live there.

900
00:47:43,039 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 2: So I guess I should do the tables.

901
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 3: The spots to master how you rite. You seeper tinge

902
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,800
or rights in two phases. The first is about two

903
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,920
in the morning, and it'scessarily talking about being McGill Chris,

904
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,440
the lifting rut side of the brain. You deliberately don't

905
00:47:56,559 --> 00:48:00,519
stand over a judgment. You just right ninety percent, she said.

906
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,280
In the next day, when your rational faculty is then

907
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:10,480
you will critique your work. So you're allowing your intuition.

908
00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:13,760
You're about to do the right shied brain to do

909
00:48:14,119 --> 00:48:16,599
the main way, then the judgment. But if you do

910
00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:17,400
the other way about.

911
00:48:17,199 --> 00:48:19,559
Speaker 2: It doesn't work. I'm stuck in the mind.

912
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 13: Wouldn't you say that you have daytime intelligence and nighttime intelligence?

913
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you should make no lasting decisions.

914
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,119
Speaker 8: In the morning, you don't look at the thing you

915
00:48:35,199 --> 00:48:37,119
did and you're like, what, what?

916
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 2: What I would say? I think?

917
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,079
Speaker 13: I think really great art should have a secret in

918
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:45,239
it that the artist knows nothing in It just has

919
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,159
to and it will reveal itself to you over time.

920
00:48:50,039 --> 00:48:52,119
And often if you're on a book tour and you're

921
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,519
you're thirty gigs in and you've been saying the same

922
00:48:54,599 --> 00:48:57,119
old thing, and then one day the penny will drop,

923
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,239
or you know, a device win comes through and you go,

924
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,280
actually it was this. I'll have to leave in a second,

925
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,320
but I'll leave you with this thought. I've been working

926
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,039
on a book for two years, which is quite a

927
00:49:08,039 --> 00:49:10,320
long time for me, and I was sitting in bed

928
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,920
proofreading the book and suddenly I wrote one sentence, and

929
00:49:15,039 --> 00:49:19,960
the sentence was this, in each experience of beauty, we

930
00:49:20,119 --> 00:49:25,000
are being prepared for eternity. In each experience of beauty,

931
00:49:25,039 --> 00:49:27,639
we are being prepared for eternity. And it was a

932
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:32,280
little overwhelming because I realized at that moment that was

933
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,400
what the secret of the book arrived, but not the

934
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,159
secret of the book, the secret of my whole life. Yes,

935
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,280
you know, it's hard for me to talk about. So

936
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,880
you know, our men for that arriving ahead of time

937
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:50,239
in preparing me. But you know, we talk about eternity.

938
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,400
And it's easy to terrify people once you get into

939
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:58,239
many evil images of bubbling call rooms and Cherub's on clouds.

940
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,280
They both seem as bad as each other a way.

941
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,760
But what folks will roll with. What they will roll

942
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,840
with is if you say, look, the thing that you

943
00:50:08,079 --> 00:50:11,039
lean into when you're alive picks up a kind of

944
00:50:11,199 --> 00:50:15,840
magnetic pace, and it's likely that when you die, you

945
00:50:16,039 --> 00:50:19,679
find yourself living in the consequence of where you leant.

946
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:20,599
Speaker 2: To in this universe.

947
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 13: Very few people that actually get upset about that. They

948
00:50:23,559 --> 00:50:28,079
go kind of follows and you've started to map out

949
00:50:28,159 --> 00:50:30,559
a bit of theology, but in a way that doesn't

950
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:34,199
immediately trigger them. So in other words, I think beauty

951
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:37,559
beauty for me matters because it changes the way I

952
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,559
behave beauty was the thing that took me from Paul's

953
00:50:41,639 --> 00:50:45,280
notion of an unknown God into a known God. And

954
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,320
the known God turned up and he had a little

955
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,079
bit of a mission statement in living. In the consequence

956
00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:54,119
of that episode, I have to go to dinner.

957
00:50:57,119 --> 00:51:00,599
Speaker 2: Well. In closing, I want to say it's thing about

958
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:06,320
the church architecture that I do. There are certain moments

959
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,719
when I'm standing in my own church during a service,

960
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:14,239
and I'll look back into the congregation and I'll be

961
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:19,679
shocked to see some individual back there looking as beautiful

962
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:24,960
as any saint in the icons. It might be because

963
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,400
there's a sunbeam coming through a window and it it

964
00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:31,519
just falls on, you know, a woman in a colorful headscarf,

965
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,639
and she's juxtaposed against an arch with a shadow behind it,

966
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:38,880
and it's it's sort of it's it's suddenly a little moment,

967
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,079
it's as beautiful as any oil painting. It's like a

968
00:51:43,159 --> 00:51:46,559
Rembrandt sort of this inner illumination shining through in a

969
00:51:46,639 --> 00:51:51,519
beautiful architectural setting, and she'll she'll sort of visually join

970
00:51:51,679 --> 00:51:54,360
in with the frescoes of the saints on the walls

971
00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:57,360
and really look like an icon of a saint and

972
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,960
that that when I see something like that, I feel

973
00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:03,360
like that is the actual end purpose of my art

974
00:52:03,679 --> 00:52:05,880
is a moment like that. You know if if I

975
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,079
when I when I get to feeling like the physical

976
00:52:09,159 --> 00:52:11,760
building that I'm trying to design or build is the

977
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,559
end purpose of my work, I get kind of depressed

978
00:52:15,159 --> 00:52:16,960
because it's true, because it's because it's just a dead

979
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,559
object and it won't last forever. But when I see

980
00:52:20,639 --> 00:52:25,159
that the light and shadow and beauty in the building

981
00:52:25,199 --> 00:52:29,760
I've created has caused some person in that building to

982
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,159
suddenly to suddenly experience theosis like I can see that

983
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,760
the divine image in that person because of the setting,

984
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:41,920
I feel like, ah, that's why I do this. My

985
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,840
work is complete. Now I'd like to ask the rest

986
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,519
of you if you have similar stories. I'm guessing all

987
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:51,119
of you, the different the different media or genres of

988
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,480
art you work in, I'll bit all of you have

989
00:52:53,559 --> 00:52:57,320
a similar moment where you actually see some some person

990
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,199
using your art or hearing your song, on reading your book,

991
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,079
venerating your icon, and you see a moment of that

992
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:09,400
of that divine beauty in humanity because of because of

993
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,840
how they're interacting with your art. Do you feel do

994
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,000
you feel similar that? That's the end point is when

995
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,039
you see a moment like that.

996
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 3: I suppose my privileged experience of that was in this

997
00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:22,000
hermitage right for seven years to hermit I fresh goed

998
00:53:22,039 --> 00:53:25,800
this small chapel and I continued doing the rest of

999
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,360
the buildings up. So sometimes I've had sixteen tons of

1000
00:53:28,679 --> 00:53:31,960
stone delivered. And one blad urvived and answer, what are

1001
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,239
you doing? And I told him, and come and have

1002
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,360
a look at the hermitage at the chapel. And he

1003
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,039
came in and I just stood there and I noticed

1004
00:53:42,079 --> 00:53:45,559
he didn't say anything. So I looked at him like

1005
00:53:45,679 --> 00:53:48,320
he was crying. I think, must be man, your tattoos

1006
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,199
and everything, and I should not say anything like this

1007
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,000
in my life as well.

1008
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:53,679
Speaker 2: And it wasn't some of the physical views.

1009
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 3: It's because it's got really dark, deep rich colors that

1010
00:53:57,119 --> 00:53:58,000
created a netmosphere.

1011
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:03,039
Speaker 2: It's like being the heart RelA. I want to share

1012
00:54:03,079 --> 00:54:07,119
one from our part of Commanda. There's a young man

1013
00:54:07,199 --> 00:54:10,679
that came to learn this this oral tradition, and he

1014
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,519
came to very last thing. He was very afraid. His

1015
00:54:13,679 --> 00:54:18,079
name was Ethan. And just last week I got a

1016
00:54:18,119 --> 00:54:22,760
call from his parents that he's taken his life. Remember him.

1017
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:24,679
He was very happy to see you.

1018
00:54:25,559 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 21: And that week four of the people that came to

1019
00:54:31,039 --> 00:54:34,559
learn this tradition toasted him on the fifth toast, which

1020
00:54:34,599 --> 00:54:36,000
is the toast to the souls of the.

1021
00:54:36,039 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 19: Dead, and they toasted him at their homes much like

1022
00:54:40,519 --> 00:54:43,639
you did the doers, and then sent the video to

1023
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,800
our group of them toasting to this gentleman that they

1024
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:50,079
had met, and I cried like a baby that I'm like,

1025
00:54:50,159 --> 00:54:51,480
you must see.

1026
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:52,760
Speaker 2: People worship in the Church of Birth.

1027
00:54:53,599 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 22: It's so similar. I had to share that because then

1028
00:54:57,519 --> 00:55:01,719
his name is again member at the tables, at the

1029
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,360
author of others, and it just goes out into eternity.

1030
00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 21: It's the most beautiful thing, of course, not his death,

1031
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:10,079
but the idea that we haven't forgot, and the table

1032
00:55:10,159 --> 00:55:12,960
teaches us as an art, as start form.

1033
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 2: I'd like to share a memory.

1034
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 23: Uh.

1035
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:24,079
Speaker 2: Answering that question, I had written a film that was

1036
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,159
to be acted by.

1037
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:34,599
Speaker 14: Deaf people, and I wrote a scene for this one

1038
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:42,000
actor two two, you know, recite this monologue about losing

1039
00:55:42,119 --> 00:55:45,440
her hearing and what it was like when the hearing

1040
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:51,000
ah when she she was born hearing but then she lost.

1041
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 2: In what that experience was like.

1042
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:57,519
Speaker 14: Now this actress was she she she was born death,

1043
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,400
but she she was interested, didn't doing this this scene,

1044
00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:05,360
and so I had to write this just sort of

1045
00:56:05,599 --> 00:56:11,440
using my just just trusting that this would translate and

1046
00:56:12,159 --> 00:56:12,639
that she.

1047
00:56:12,679 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: Would be able to do it because everything was in

1048
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:15,599
sign language.

1049
00:56:15,639 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 14: And so so I wrote the scene, you know, having

1050
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:25,280
no experience in this in this world, just purely using

1051
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,360
my imagination, but trying to do it in a way

1052
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,880
that felt true. And after we did that scene, she

1053
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,880
she just said, that was the most That was the

1054
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,679
greatest gift that you could have given me, because I

1055
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,000
could imagine what it.

1056
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,519
Speaker 2: Was like to hear Bound your Way Noon, because it

1057
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:46,280
was all imagery.

1058
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 14: It was all using sound as imagery, and she said

1059
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,679
that it brought her closer to what it must be

1060
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,840
like to hear. And I had never expected that, but

1061
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,199
I was, like you say, I was just I was

1062
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,920
in the flow and I was trusting. And then to

1063
00:57:05,679 --> 00:57:09,079
have that experience, it was like, this is why I'm

1064
00:57:09,119 --> 00:57:09,480
doing this.

1065
00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:13,039
Speaker 7: Yeah, And now I get these emails from people who

1066
00:57:13,039 --> 00:57:14,960
are like they're at their end of their rope, and

1067
00:57:16,159 --> 00:57:18,079
I'm grateful that they reach out to me, but it

1068
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:19,320
actually breaks my heart too.

1069
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 8: Like sometimes people are like, oh my gosh, this renkor.

1070
00:57:21,199 --> 00:57:24,119
Speaker 7: Help me so much, and it's like, how how is

1071
00:57:24,199 --> 00:57:28,400
the world so such a desert of encouragement that some

1072
00:57:28,719 --> 00:57:31,440
artists who've just made an album you liked, like brought

1073
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,719
you back from the brink in any capacity. It's just

1074
00:57:34,599 --> 00:57:36,920
it's terrifying to think that some people live in that world.

1075
00:57:37,039 --> 00:57:40,400
And so that helps when I don't want to get

1076
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,719
up at work, you know, sometimes like well, maybe this

1077
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,039
is one of those things for someone else. Yeah, it

1078
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:47,000
makes you feel better. I died when I mean I

1079
00:57:47,079 --> 00:57:48,400
cried when Prince died.

1080
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.

1081
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 8: He's also I don't think I've.

1082
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:58,159
Speaker 9: Had a live performance in my life that I've been satisfied.

1083
00:57:58,199 --> 00:58:02,599
But I come away disappointed with myself every time. And

1084
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,840
yet people will come to me and say that's so

1085
00:58:06,039 --> 00:58:10,039
moved me or whatever, and that's that's the redeeming moment,

1086
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,119
you know. And so it's like I know that I

1087
00:58:12,239 --> 00:58:14,760
have my own issues that make me a perfectionist and whatever,

1088
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,159
and I can't enjoy it, like maybe I will one

1089
00:58:17,239 --> 00:58:21,159
day when I grow up, but that them being moved

1090
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,199
is the fulfilment of it, that's why you did it.

1091
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,760
I'm wondering, and I'm sorry if I'm changing the subject,

1092
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,440
you can shut me up. But my question that keeps

1093
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,679
coming to mind when I'm listening is like if we

1094
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,000
go back to like a political thing, like people do

1095
00:58:36,239 --> 00:58:38,960
things because there's laws, But what about the idea that

1096
00:58:39,039 --> 00:58:41,559
it's better to do things because of beauty, you know,

1097
00:58:41,679 --> 00:58:45,199
to be inspired to be right and to operate rightly

1098
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,559
rather than be made through laws or legislation. You know,

1099
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,119
like a man who's fallen in love with a beautiful

1100
00:58:53,159 --> 00:58:55,920
woman and how would he change to win her?

1101
00:58:56,199 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 2: You know, was like Summers will awaits that works.

1102
00:59:05,199 --> 00:59:06,719
Speaker 14: No one has to tell you if you're in love

1103
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:08,559
to go to the ends of the earth for your

1104
00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:11,079
beloved because you'll do anything.

1105
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,639
Speaker 9: And what about Christians will be known for their love?

1106
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,119
You know, Like it goes back to that that it's

1107
00:59:17,159 --> 00:59:21,000
there's a better reason to do things than politics.

1108
00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, I know, trying to make something beautiful as an

1109
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:24,039
active love, isn't it?

1110
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Definitely? I think.

1111
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,239
Speaker 16: What I want to share is when I was watching

1112
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,480
Andrew describe that moment in church, what it reminded me

1113
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:38,719
of is how film director thinks because when filmmaking is

1114
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,480
human centered in that way we actually think about a

1115
00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:45,320
shot a face and then we put the architecture of

1116
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:50,400
the design around them, around the human and I'm so

1117
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:52,679
used to that language and that way of working, you know,

1118
00:59:52,719 --> 00:59:54,480
I did that for twenty years, and then when I

1119
00:59:54,559 --> 00:59:58,199
went back to church, it was absent. And I think

1120
00:59:58,239 --> 01:00:00,800
that's what I noticed was this isn't human centered in

1121
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:01,280
the same.

1122
01:00:01,239 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 6: In the way that my brain works.

1123
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,599
Speaker 16: Because I was looking at the at the environment and thinking,

1124
01:00:06,239 --> 01:00:08,280
you know, how does this frame the parishioners or how

1125
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:12,360
does this make the parishioner feel? You know, as a filmmaker,

1126
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,719
you think where the camera is in terms of slow subs,

1127
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,519
the kind of you might be interacting with details of

1128
01:00:17,559 --> 01:00:21,320
the church candles or and icons, and that had kind

1129
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:22,320
of gone out of the window.

1130
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:25,119
Speaker 2: Certainly is a church that I was in.

1131
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:29,599
Speaker 16: So it's almost like rediscovering that vision of a filmmaker,

1132
01:00:29,679 --> 01:00:33,199
but within, you know, within these spaces and whatever they

1133
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:33,559
leave be.

1134
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 6: And to think in that way. Yeah, it was just

1135
01:00:38,559 --> 01:00:40,159
it was just it was just beautiful. And what it

1136
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,280
was like a it was like a movie that what

1137
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,239
you described that scene, I could see it. I could

1138
01:00:44,239 --> 01:00:45,880
see that's like coming in and I could see her

1139
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:49,599
head stuff and you know what she's wearing and all

1140
01:00:49,639 --> 01:00:49,800
of that.

1141
01:00:50,039 --> 01:00:54,679
Speaker 2: So when you were illustrating there snow white book, I'll

1142
01:00:54,719 --> 01:00:59,920
bit you were picturing vignette of a little child sitting

1143
01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:03,760
in bed reading that book. No, she's not that nice.

1144
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:11,159
Speaker 7: I don't know.

1145
01:01:11,599 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 6: That's definitely one of the things that I didn't know

1146
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,000
what it was going to be like it was done,

1147
01:01:18,239 --> 01:01:18,880
and then when it was.

1148
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:20,719
Speaker 16: When I was like, oh, that's what it looks like,

1149
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:22,760
because I've never done it before, so it was a

1150
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:24,199
real It was quite a risk.

1151
01:01:24,639 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 2: Have you been able to have the experience of seeing

1152
01:01:27,079 --> 01:01:28,119
children reading the book?

1153
01:01:28,519 --> 01:01:32,159
Speaker 6: We've had a lot of feedback. Yeah, my daughter.

1154
01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:37,719
Speaker 2: What about you, Vesper? Have you been able to watch

1155
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,159
children read your books and see how they react to them?

1156
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 15: Not as much with the picture books because I don't

1157
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,840
really do school visits in that way. But what I

1158
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,960
kept thinking of was the importance of my sketch book

1159
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:58,840
and that I don't really have any control over how

1160
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,840
the audience reacts to my work, and a lot of

1161
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:03,920
times it's completely unseen because I make a book and

1162
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,400
it goes out there and I maybe I get you know,

1163
01:02:07,599 --> 01:02:09,719
a letter from a reader or something like that. But

1164
01:02:11,639 --> 01:02:14,880
for me, it's the books really come out of a

1165
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,599
lot of preparatory. I carry sketchbooks, multiple sketch books with

1166
01:02:18,679 --> 01:02:21,400
me wherever I go, and I'm just always processing the world,

1167
01:02:21,519 --> 01:02:25,840
and the books come out of that sort of indirectly,

1168
01:02:28,199 --> 01:02:31,199
but I feel like that is sort of my interaction

1169
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,559
with the world, is to try to follow that curiosity

1170
01:02:34,599 --> 01:02:38,000
and that understanding more and trust that the work that's

1171
01:02:38,039 --> 01:02:39,920
coming out of that is going to be what the

1172
01:02:40,039 --> 01:02:45,079
reader or the viewer needs at that time. So it's

1173
01:02:45,079 --> 01:02:47,800
a lot of the work that never gets seen by

1174
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,079
anybody that's actually maybe more important.

1175
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 14: There's a lot of interaction with your sketch book with people,

1176
01:02:55,119 --> 01:02:58,239
like it does draw people, and there is a lot

1177
01:02:58,280 --> 01:02:59,639
of really.

1178
01:02:59,519 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 7: Interesting I enjoyed your sketch oh thank you guys, liked

1179
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:04,159
to comment and subscribed.

1180
01:03:06,119 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 15: But if anything, you know what I what I kind

1181
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:11,519
of hope if anybody sees that process is that they

1182
01:03:11,639 --> 01:03:14,880
feel that maybe they could do it too, because it's

1183
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,880
just playing, you know, yeah, it does.

1184
01:03:19,079 --> 01:03:21,119
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be right or perfect.

1185
01:03:21,159 --> 01:03:25,639
Speaker 15: It's just about it's it's encountering the world through through

1186
01:03:25,679 --> 01:03:26,280
that kind of play.

1187
01:03:28,239 --> 01:03:36,639
Speaker 2: M M.

1188
01:03:43,119 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 24: Yeah, mhazies, cause disguises, manter, philosophers.

1189
01:04:23,639 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 2: Hard and hard, so no efence when you have a soft.

1190
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:40,599
Speaker 24: Lady Wiston cannot dress.

1191
01:04:42,119 --> 01:04:47,159
Speaker 1: In a man without cheese.

1192
01:04:51,679 --> 01:04:52,159
Speaker 2: Any more.

1193
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 7: Ta she longs to halt this.

1194
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:03,679
Speaker 6: Little ham.

1195
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 23: And gaze in his sea ble. And a song stirs

1196
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:20,039
in the side, like the wind in the ball, a

1197
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:31,559
ball she listens and stars and tramos tis the first little.

1198
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:33,559
Speaker 2: Song of all.

1199
01:05:36,559 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 23: Ros is a shining piccody.

1200
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:45,159
Speaker 2: In the hush of the sea.

1201
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:54,119
Speaker 23: Ature rolls is a flowing piercody.

1202
01:05:55,800 --> 01:06:03,679
Speaker 2: But there's name a roll like you on the rollsis

1203
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,840
will die in the summer time.

1204
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 23: The war rolls maybe fall report what doesn't a rolls not.

1205
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 2: In pea hody? Jeez the rolls that time chee eve more.

1206
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,159
Speaker 1: If you enjoy these videos and podcasts, please go to

1207
01:06:42,239 --> 01:06:44,880
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1208
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:46,079
can support what we're doing.

1209
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:48,679
Speaker 2: There are multiple subscriber tiers with perks.

1210
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: There are apparel in books to purchase, So go to

1211
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,280
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