1 00:00:01,199 --> 00:00:04,679 Speaker 1: Hi, This is Peat Makepeace calling from Solihull in the 2 00:00:04,759 --> 00:00:09,439 United Kingdom and I play at Stonebridge Golf Club. This 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,320 is golf Smart number. 4 00:00:11,199 --> 00:00:15,279 Speaker 2: Four hundred and eighty four, published on April fourteen, twenty fifteen. 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,559 Speaker 3: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,199 insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the 7 00:00:24,199 --> 00:00:30,199 Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,119 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,679 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 10 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: Within the series Golfers that are out there, there's a 11 00:00:41,719 --> 00:00:46,320 definite faction who look at this possibility of non conforming 12 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,799 equipment playing simple level of cheating. Well, okay, it is 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,840 cheating if you use it in a real competition, even 14 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,320 if it's anywhere from your Saturday morning sweeps to the 15 00:00:56,359 --> 00:00:59,799 club championship to the County diameter to the Staumeter. And 16 00:01:00,479 --> 00:01:03,359 but there's a whole bunch of people who probably would 17 00:01:03,439 --> 00:01:05,959 never play in those things simply want to go out 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,719 and just get it a little bit better than they do. 19 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,719 Right now, nice side is recording a little different because 20 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,879 I've watched how the whole business model is that all 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,200 the big golf companies go out and they do their 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,560 engineering and they develop their new clubhead technology, and then 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,879 they build their golf clubs so they're all the same length, 24 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,000 same loss, same lying angles, seem everything, so that they 25 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,599 can be shipped into all the retail stores to more 26 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,159 easily be sold off the rack. That's how you sell 27 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,599 four hundred million dollars where the golf clubs a year. 28 00:01:33,879 --> 00:01:36,640 But the point still remains, golfers are as different in 29 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,079 our size, our strength, our athletic ability, and especially in 30 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,640 our swing characteristics. Standard made clubs are not going to 31 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,719 help every single golfer play to the best of their 32 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,599 given ability. That's where custom fitting can step in and 33 00:01:48,719 --> 00:01:50,799 help people play better and play more. 34 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,319 Speaker 2: Surprising information on how to cut seven to ten strokes 35 00:01:58,319 --> 00:02:02,400 from your handicap using proper fitted clubs with Tom wish On. 36 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 3: This is Golf Smarter Premium. 37 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 2: Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf 38 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,159 Smarter Podcast. Tom. 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: Thanks very much, cred it's a pleasure to be back 40 00:02:14,599 --> 00:02:15,680 to talk about golf. 41 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: We could talk about golf, we can talk about golf clubs, 42 00:02:19,039 --> 00:02:21,800 we can talk about custom club fitting. We can talk 43 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,039 about the state of Actually we are going to talk 44 00:02:24,039 --> 00:02:29,759 about all of those things. Okay, how is the state 45 00:02:29,879 --> 00:02:32,639 of the golf club industry. Let's get right to it. 46 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,439 How is the state of the industry from your perspective 47 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:35,919 right now? 48 00:02:36,719 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: Well, it's very interesting. You know, the industry's big major player, 49 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,759 tailor Mate, took a gigantic hit last year. They were 50 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,000 down like twenty nine percent in sales, you know, largely 51 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,439 due to the fad of white driver heads being over 52 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,520 so that went away from them, but also because you know, 53 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,240 there's been a little bit of a backlash from some 54 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,599 of the major retailers in golf that they're you know, 55 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,080 not real happy with the way that the big giant 56 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,599 companies have been bringing out new models every six months 57 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,240 and how difficult that is to manage on a retail 58 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,960 inventory standpoint, you know. So, you know, right now it's 59 00:03:18,039 --> 00:03:20,199 you know, up in the air. You know, it's hard 60 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,560 to say exactly what's going to happen to the golf 61 00:03:22,599 --> 00:03:28,680 equipment industry. Participation in the game continues to sag, you 62 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,039 know a little bit for all of the post recession 63 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,719 reasons you know that are out there. Games expensive, takes 64 00:03:34,759 --> 00:03:38,280 too long to play. The millennials, you know, are not 65 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,960 impressed with playing their father's game, so to speak. And 66 00:03:42,039 --> 00:03:45,879 so you know, we're living you know, with about five 67 00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:49,639 ten percent, well actually won that twenty percent fewer golfers 68 00:03:49,639 --> 00:03:53,000 and we had ten years ago, you know, with that, 69 00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:56,080 So you know, but the game is still the game. 70 00:03:56,159 --> 00:04:00,960 It's still the greatest game there is, and you know 71 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,240 it still is something that you know is going to 72 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:04,080 live forever though. 73 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting as we're talking right now, 74 00:04:08,199 --> 00:04:11,960 we're in day two of the Masters twenty fifteen and 75 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:16,319 Jordan's speaf Is is kind of running away with things here. 76 00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:22,600 He's having another amazing round after yesterday's. Is is someone 77 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,600 like a Jordan's Speef do you think? Is he the 78 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,759 kind of character he does? He have the what it 79 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,759 takes to be a person that will get the millennials 80 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,120 back on the golf or to the golf course, you know, 81 00:04:37,199 --> 00:04:39,879 the way Tiger. You know, when Tiger was at his peak, 82 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,240 everybody was building golf courses left and right, and everyone 83 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,000 was happy, and we were coming out with new clubs 84 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,199 every few weeks. And now you know, that kind of 85 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,480 died away and everyone started leaving and everyone's waiting for 86 00:04:51,519 --> 00:04:54,600 the next Messiah. Could Jordan Speed be that character? 87 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: Well, I think he can have influence on younger kids, 88 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,199 you know, let's say twelve seventeen year olds, you know, 89 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,160 to maybe get more into the game or start to 90 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,720 play the game. But I'm not really sure. You know, 91 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,360 among the millennials. 92 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 2: He's too young, no, a different attention span. 93 00:05:14,399 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: Let me put it that way, you know what I mean, 94 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,279 they're the kids, you know, they're the generation that's grown 95 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,000 up going nuts. If they walk out the door without 96 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,240 a smartphone in their pocket, you know, it rules their life. 97 00:05:25,319 --> 00:05:28,199 And you know, and from that, you know, most of 98 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,560 the things that I think an awful lot of millennials 99 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:34,040 do for pleasure and enjoyment are things that don't take 100 00:05:34,079 --> 00:05:38,360 them very long. You know, to do workouts, you know, cycling, 101 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,480 you know that sort of thing. And to be into golf, 102 00:05:42,519 --> 00:05:45,079 you've got to make a long commitment, you know, for 103 00:05:45,199 --> 00:05:47,480 practicing to get to the point where the game can 104 00:05:47,519 --> 00:05:49,879 be enjoyable. And then when you go play the game, 105 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,839 you know, it's you know, four or five hours if 106 00:05:52,879 --> 00:05:56,480 you're going to play eighteen holes plus cost. So you know, 107 00:05:56,519 --> 00:05:58,560 I'm not sure. I mean I had a discussion at 108 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,639 one point with Jerry Tarti, the editor of Golf Digest, 109 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,480 and and you know, I noted that Golf Digest has 110 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:09,160 changed their look, you know, of their magazine to try 111 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:11,720 to appeal more to the millennials. And my point with 112 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,240 him was, well, that's fine among the millennials who already 113 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,000 do play golf, but the biggest segment of our population 114 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,000 that is not playing golf and appears to not want 115 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,720 to have anything to do with the game are the millennials. 116 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,160 So you know, you know, what about things that need 117 00:06:28,199 --> 00:06:30,639 to be done to try to attract those people to 118 00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:33,399 the game, to get them to start playing, you know, 119 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,439 for it. And you know, I made the suggestion to him, 120 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,759 you know, just tossing something out of you know, why 121 00:06:39,759 --> 00:06:43,199 don't all the big entities in the game who have money, 122 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,879 the PGA Tour, the PGA of America, the Augusta National 123 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,199 Golf Club, the United States Golf Association, you know, throw 124 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,360 some money in the pot and start making some commercials 125 00:06:55,399 --> 00:07:01,439 to put on television which feature celebrities and stars, well 126 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,560 known sports heroes who love and play the game, and 127 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,399 get on the commercial and tell people this is why 128 00:07:07,439 --> 00:07:09,040 this game is so great and why you need to 129 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:09,519 play it. 130 00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: You know, for that and you know, yeah, where's justin 131 00:07:12,879 --> 00:07:14,439 Timberlake when we need him? 132 00:07:14,959 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, things like that, you know, or any of 133 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:22,079 the you know Steph Curry, you know in basketball, who's 134 00:07:22,079 --> 00:07:23,319 a great player. 135 00:07:22,959 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: And oh is that right? 136 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: Loves tremendedly you know for that. Yeah. I mean he's 137 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:30,680 a three four handicap and plays extremely well. 138 00:07:31,279 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: Did not know that? That's interesting? Yeah, he's uh, yeah, 139 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:42,879 he's very special. What's what he's doing this year in basketball? Uh? 140 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,720 Their attention span? You're absolutely right. They want to they 141 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:49,079 want to be able to play well because they can 142 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,120 do it on their video games. So why can't they 143 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,720 just translate that onto the golf course. Why does it 144 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,600 have to be so difficult? 145 00:07:56,879 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you can play eighteen homes in a video 146 00:07:58,959 --> 00:07:59,959 game in a half an hour. 147 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, exactly. You know, I live next to a 148 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,040 golf course. We've talked about this because I Marine Country Club, 149 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,519 which you your mom lives near here too, so you're 150 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:12,680 familiar with the golf course. And just last week they 151 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,360 they did an experiment. They had two pins on each 152 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,560 green and one was a regulation size hole and the 153 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,120 other one was a fifteen inch hole good for them 154 00:08:25,959 --> 00:08:29,040 and yeah, and they just as an experiment to see 155 00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:30,879 how people liked it to be able to get the 156 00:08:30,959 --> 00:08:33,200 kids out on the golf course with the family because 157 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,960 it's a very family oriented country club, and the feedback 158 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,960 they were getting was an hour faster to play and 159 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,559 seven to ten strokes per per person was saved. Now, 160 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,159 I don't think this is going to be the future 161 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,120 of the game as far as tournament play, of course not. 162 00:08:53,919 --> 00:08:55,919 But for fun, why not. 163 00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:59,399 Speaker 1: I think, you know, all of those things like that 164 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,799 are okay, you know, I mean for a little bit 165 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,279 of a boost to play. But at the end of 166 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,799 the day, you know, for golf to continue to grow, 167 00:09:09,799 --> 00:09:12,679 the game has to attract people for what it brings 168 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,600 and what it has always brought from day one. You know, 169 00:09:15,639 --> 00:09:19,240 with that, you know, a chance to be you against yourself, 170 00:09:19,399 --> 00:09:22,279 you against the golf course, to master a skill that 171 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,200 it's difficult to master, you know, to be able to 172 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,519 spend time with friends in a social environment where you're 173 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,960 you know, you're also playing a game. And then the 174 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,799 pure enjoyment of the fact that you know, all these 175 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,440 different golf courses around the country and around the world, 176 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:41,000 they're all different, they're beautiful examples of how we can 177 00:09:41,039 --> 00:09:45,440 shape land into you know, gorgeous agronomy. And it's fun 178 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,159 to go out and play all the different kinds of 179 00:09:47,159 --> 00:09:49,639 courses out there. You know, those are the things that 180 00:09:49,759 --> 00:09:51,960 have to draw the people you know into the game 181 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,759 to play, you know, play the game the way it's 182 00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:57,960 always meant to be played, you know, for that. So yeah, 183 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,399 I mean I welcome the Badiach Cup, of the fifteen 184 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,320 inch Cup, you know, in that for you know, the 185 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,600 occasional fun thing to get a few people out who 186 00:10:04,639 --> 00:10:07,639 may not have been coming out regularly. But it's not 187 00:10:07,759 --> 00:10:09,759 the answer for long term. 188 00:10:09,919 --> 00:10:13,159 Speaker 2: No, I don't think I don't think so either. I 189 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,840 don't think so either. But you know, even if there 190 00:10:17,879 --> 00:10:20,000 is a fifteen inch hole it and it saves you 191 00:10:20,039 --> 00:10:22,559 an hour and it saves you some strokes, hitting a 192 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:27,159 golf ball, not putting, hitting a golf ball is still 193 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,120 not an easy thing to do, no doing it well. 194 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, and that's it takes time to 195 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,080 get to the point where you can hit it well 196 00:10:37,159 --> 00:10:39,600 enough that you can go out and have fun, right. 197 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: Right, It takes years for it to be fun, because 198 00:10:42,639 --> 00:10:44,519 it's not really fun until you get good. 199 00:10:45,639 --> 00:10:47,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, either that or else you play it strictly for 200 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,840 the social side, which is tremendous, you know, and so 201 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,440 regardless if you don't score well, you're out there with 202 00:10:53,519 --> 00:10:56,200 good friends, laughing and having a good time outside. 203 00:10:56,519 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: Right, What can the equipment industry do? And I'm sure 204 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,600 they would spend quadrillions of dollars, whether it be advertising 205 00:11:04,919 --> 00:11:07,679 or R and D. But what can they do to 206 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,440 make it easier to hit a golf ball? Do you 207 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,120 think there's something that is in their hands that would help. 208 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,159 Speaker 1: Well, there's nothing that can be done to get to 209 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,440 the point where you hit you know, ninety eight percent 210 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,320 of your shots in the air. That's you and your 211 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:27,120 neural unpet system and proper instruction followed by practice, you know, 212 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,480 to get to a point where you can make a 213 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,799 good swing to hit the ball airporn, you know, as 214 00:11:30,799 --> 00:11:33,279 far as getting people a little bit more distance or 215 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,440 hitting the ball a little straighter. You know, there are 216 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,519 some people in the in the world golf industries who 217 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,519 are starting to look at this and say, you know, 218 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,720 for those people who strictly play for fun, who would 219 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:50,639 never play in serious competition, why shouldn't we manufacture non 220 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,080 conforming clubs? You know that would you know, just simply 221 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,559 be out there to add to the fun in the game. 222 00:11:57,799 --> 00:12:00,000 Not that long ago, I think in the month of February, 223 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:06,039 the Japan Golf Manufacturers Association came out with us with 224 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,559 a statement saying that they were in favor of this. Okay, 225 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,320 they got criticized heavily because, you know, one group of 226 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,240 people said, well, the only reason that the Japan manufacturers 227 00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:18,320 want to make non conforming clubs is so they can 228 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,320 sell more clubs and make more money. Okay, Well, there's 229 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,399 another side of the coin, you know, where you know, 230 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,600 there are apparently an awful lot of people over there 231 00:12:25,639 --> 00:12:27,720 who don't hit the ball as far as they would 232 00:12:27,759 --> 00:12:32,960 like to, who don't play in serious handicapped competition, and 233 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,919 they feel that maybe this could keep that group of 234 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,159 people more interested in the game, you know, for that So, 235 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,279 you know, because we can design drivers that hit the 236 00:12:42,279 --> 00:12:47,600 ball ten fifteen yards further by exceeding the rule in 237 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,440 the game for the coficient and restitution for the spring 238 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,519 face capability of the face, we could also design shafts 239 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,080 which self correct during the swing basically and could and 240 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,600 ad and reduce the slice just you know, or hook 241 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,840 depending on how the shaft is made and how it's 242 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,960 installed into the head. You know, we also have you know, 243 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,279 the aspects of what I work in every day, you know, 244 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,759 professional custom fitting. So you know, if people can get 245 00:13:14,799 --> 00:13:17,320 into a situation where they understand that they're better off 246 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,519 going to see a professional club fitter to be fit 247 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:23,200 and you know, for their their clubs rather than buy 248 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,279 them standard off the rack and big stores are online, 249 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,919 that too, you know, can make a difference to help 250 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,080 people you know, play better, score better, and enjoy the 251 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,600 game more and then potentially keep coming back and playing. 252 00:13:41,759 --> 00:13:44,879 Speaker 2: You talked about the Japanese companies that are suggesting why 253 00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:48,720 don't we make a a some clubs that are non conforming, 254 00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:51,000 that are against the rules, because these are for people 255 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,600 who are just out there to have a good time. 256 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:55,279 They are not going to necessarily post their score or 257 00:13:55,360 --> 00:14:00,120 get their you know, their gen number going. And then 258 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,720 can you say people are like, oh, you're just in 259 00:14:01,799 --> 00:14:05,120 it to sell more clubs and make more money. Yeah, well, 260 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:09,039 and that's a problem for a company because why you know, 261 00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:11,320 I don't you know, I don't see that as being 262 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,159 the issue, you know, I mean. 263 00:14:13,159 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I've been in the golf equipment in se 264 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,240 for a very long time now, and I'm very well 265 00:14:17,279 --> 00:14:21,039 aware of the fact that within the serious golfers that 266 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:26,919 are out there, there's a definite faction who look at 267 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:33,759 this possibility of non conforming equipment uh with great anger, condemnation, 268 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:38,519 you know, and playing a simple label at cheating. Well, okay, 269 00:14:38,559 --> 00:14:41,000 it is cheating if you use it in you a 270 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:45,399 real competition, even if that's anywhere from you know, your 271 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,279 Saturday morning sweeps, playing for pro Shop credit, to the 272 00:14:50,279 --> 00:14:53,679 club championship, to the county Amateur, to the state amateur 273 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,879 and on up. You shouldn't do that. You need to 274 00:14:55,879 --> 00:14:58,519 be playing with conforming golf clubs if you're playing that 275 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,200 kind of competitive golf. But there's a whole bunch of people 276 00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:05,399 who you know, probably would never play in those things. 277 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,120 And you know a number of people who simply want 278 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,000 to go out and just hit it around, have fun, 279 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,159 hit it a little bit better than they do right now, 280 00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:15,600 you know. For that. So you know, that's where the 281 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,840 Japan Manufacturers Association is coming from. You know, my side 282 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,639 of the coins a little different because I've watched how 283 00:15:23,679 --> 00:15:26,840 the whole business model of the golf equipment industry has 284 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,799 evolved over the years, and the standard you know, the 285 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,559 business model is that all the big golf companies go 286 00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:36,320 out and they do their engineering and they develop their 287 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,360 new clubhead technology, and then they build their golf clubs. 288 00:15:40,679 --> 00:15:44,399 Uh so they're all same length, same lofts, same lie angles, 289 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,919 same weighting, same grip size, same everything, so that they 290 00:15:47,919 --> 00:15:50,759 can be shipped into all the retail stores to more 291 00:15:50,799 --> 00:15:54,080 easily be sold off the rack. That's how you sell 292 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,679 four hundred million dollars where the golf clubs a year. 293 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,240 You can't do it if you're going to build one 294 00:15:59,279 --> 00:16:02,159 set at a time. I'm for one golfer at a time, 295 00:16:02,279 --> 00:16:05,840 each one custom fit. But the point still remains, golfers 296 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,120 are as different as fingerpints. You know. We're all different 297 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,639 in our size, our strength, our athletic ability, and especially 298 00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:16,440 in our swing characteristics. And that's you know, a situation 299 00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:20,480 where standard made clubs are not going to help every 300 00:16:20,519 --> 00:16:23,000 single golfer play to the best of their given ability. 301 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,759 That's where custom fitting can you know, step in and 302 00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:29,120 help people you know, play better and enjoy it more 303 00:16:29,159 --> 00:16:30,720 and continue to play more. 304 00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I've been playing golf for getting getting up to 305 00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:40,840 twenty years now and I don't ever see myself playing 306 00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:43,600 in any sort of competition. I just that's not who 307 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,879 I am. I love to play on the weekends with 308 00:16:46,919 --> 00:16:49,799 my friends, and if we put a couple dollars into 309 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,480 a pot, you know, before the round, okay, I'll do that. 310 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,440 But mostly I'm out there trying to beat myself each time, 311 00:16:55,759 --> 00:16:57,559 you know, just because that's the way golf is. You 312 00:16:57,639 --> 00:16:59,279 just know that, Oh I can do better. I want 313 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,159 to got to do this again. I want to do 314 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,079 it better. How close are we getting or will we 315 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:10,000 ever get to the point where there's two sets of 316 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:13,279 rules for tournament play and for everybody else. 317 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's interesting. I don't think we're anywhere near 318 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:20,799 close to that yet, but there certainly are who discussed that. 319 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,440 You know, it goes on in other sports, you know 320 00:17:24,519 --> 00:17:28,640 out there. You know, baseball has metal bats in you know. 321 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,039 Speaker 2: In college, right school college. 322 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,279 Speaker 1: You know, wood bats in the major leagues. You know 323 00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:37,480 out there, you know, there are some people who feel 324 00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:41,759 that because of the extreme distance that the tour players 325 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,200 hit the ball now, that this is going to render 326 00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:47,960 a lot of the classic golf courses obsolete. There are 327 00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:50,720 only so many of those courses who can keep lengthening. 328 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,440 You know, their their golf courses, you know, to accommodate 329 00:17:56,759 --> 00:17:58,599 you know, guys with one hundred and twenty five miles 330 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,680 an hour clubhead speed. You know, you hit it three 331 00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:05,039 hundred and forty yards. You know, out there, the game 332 00:18:05,079 --> 00:18:08,079 has evolved, you know. I mean you go back to 333 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,440 the to the year nineteen hundred, okay, and the game 334 00:18:12,519 --> 00:18:15,079 converted from a gut of purchare golf ball to a 335 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,880 rubber core wound ball, and immediately everybody picked up twenty 336 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,200 five or thirty yards, and those golf courses that were 337 00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:27,519 you know existing before this were rendered obsolete. Well, new 338 00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:30,240 golf courses were built, you know, that were longer to 339 00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:33,759 accommodate the new ball and all that, and so you know, 340 00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:37,759 the game survived that here. Now maybe because of the 341 00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:42,079 economic reasons, it's not quite feasible to think that we're 342 00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:43,839 going to go out and build a whole new stable 343 00:18:43,839 --> 00:18:46,640 of golf courses that all could be eight thousand yards long, 344 00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:48,240 so that we could, you know, so that they could 345 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,559 host a PGA Tour event and you'd still see players 346 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,920 hitting you know, three iron into a power four hole. Yeah, 347 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,519 that may be unrealistic, you know, out there. But you know, 348 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,440 it's you know, it's just all part of the evolution 349 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:05,359 of the game. We just have to get used to 350 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,240 the fact that there are a lot better golf athletes 351 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,599 now and that these guys out there all have an 352 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,119 average driver clubhead speed it's ten miles an hour higher 353 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,000 than it was twenty five years ago. Because they're better 354 00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:22,200 golf athletes, they know how to train, you know, to 355 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,480 you know, maximize their you know, their swing speed out there. 356 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:28,319 That's just all part of it. 357 00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:33,759 Speaker 2: So interesting. What why do we well when when they 358 00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:36,559 when they made that change in the ball around the 359 00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:39,799 turn of the century, there how much resistance was that too? 360 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,119 You know, wait, that's wrong. We shouldn't be you know, 361 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,680 like we're getting the resistance now. 362 00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:48,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was kind of funny. You know. I'm, of course, 363 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,039 I'm not old enough to have lived for that, but 364 00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:54,000 you know, I haven't done and of research to read 365 00:19:54,039 --> 00:19:56,839 through all of my old collections of magazines from that 366 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,960 era to know if there was a protest to it. 367 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,400 I'm not aware that there was. You know, at the 368 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,519 same token, there was definitely a protest. When the steel 369 00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:13,920 shaft was invented, the game's ruling bodies were not sure 370 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,160 they wanted to to rule, you know, to accept that 371 00:20:17,279 --> 00:20:20,640 and rule the steel shaft to be conforming, you know. 372 00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:24,319 So yeah, I mean there's evidence from the distant past 373 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,920 in the evolution of the game that there has been 374 00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:32,799 resistance to change in the equipment if it was felt 375 00:20:32,839 --> 00:20:37,240 that it would make the game replace skill with technology. 376 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 2: Is the term, you know, is that the great fear? 377 00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:43,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's the us GAS credo. You know, 378 00:20:43,839 --> 00:20:47,480 when they when they look at brand new forms of equipment, 379 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,759 you know, that are submitted to them for approval. Not 380 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,400 everything that may be submitted to them may be covered 381 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,279 under an express current rule. So the U s g 382 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,839 A has always had a provide so to where they 383 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,480 could rule something to be non conforming if they felt 384 00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:07,880 it was not in the best interests of the game, 385 00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:11,720 or if they felt it was an example of technology 386 00:21:11,839 --> 00:21:15,720 replacing the skill with which you know, to play the game. 387 00:21:17,319 --> 00:21:19,960 You know, right now we're at a point we're golf 388 00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:25,640 club designed where we're maxed out. We can't design clubheads 389 00:21:26,079 --> 00:21:29,000 to hit the ball any farther or hit the ball 390 00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:32,559 any straighter than they do right now, because we've reached 391 00:21:32,599 --> 00:21:37,319 the brick wall of technology part of that brick wall 392 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,480 are some of the rules of the USGA which limit performance. 393 00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:44,359 We have a limit on the coefficient restitution, the spring 394 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,039 face capability. You know, the clubhead clubheads have been you know, 395 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,440 at this cor limit for quite some time now, you know, 396 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,400 with that, and you know now that we're you know, 397 00:21:56,799 --> 00:21:59,920 we've we're several years into the development of higher CEO 398 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,680 are fairway woods and hybrids and irons, so those are 399 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,519 now reaching their brick wall of potential performance. The only 400 00:22:07,559 --> 00:22:10,359 way you know, companies can offer golf clubs off the 401 00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:13,680 rack that hit the ball further is to keep lowering 402 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,200 the loft angles on the clubheads. And that too is 403 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,279 going to have a limit because each time you keep 404 00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:23,079 lowering the loft of the clubheads, you've now rendered one 405 00:22:23,079 --> 00:22:27,400 more club as unhittable for the majority of golfers because 406 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,000 it now has too little loft for the average players 407 00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:34,039 to hit consistently. You know, well, you know for that, 408 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,039 so you know, at this point, we are really at 409 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:39,920 this limit. Even though marketing is going to keep trying 410 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,599 to convince golfers that the next design is better and 411 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,400 hits it further. You know, it's you know, it's the 412 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,039 way marketing goes to try and generate demand. In reality, 413 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,440 because the vast majority of golfers have always bought their 414 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,319 golf clubs standard off the rack in golf stores, there 415 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,480 is one technology left out there that the vast majority 416 00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:07,480 of golfers have never been exposed to, in which for 417 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,160 at least seventy seventy five percent of all golfers could 418 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,200 overnight send them ount with three to ten shots lower score. 419 00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:18,000 You know what I'm talking about is full SPEC's professional 420 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,880 club fitting, where the golfer is analyzed by a true 421 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:27,079 professional club fitter who then custom builds their golf clubs 422 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,319 one at a time for every single one of the 423 00:23:30,519 --> 00:23:35,519 twelve key club fitting specifications that make up a golf club. 424 00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:39,039 You know, most people have never had the chance to 425 00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:43,400 go work with a professional club fitter. You know, Unfortunately, 426 00:23:43,599 --> 00:23:47,240 the big companies are marketing that their clubs can be 427 00:23:47,319 --> 00:23:50,079 custom fit by just walking into the big golf stores, 428 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,359 and that's just not true. You know, what we're talking about. 429 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,880 Custom club fitting is the same thing as the way 430 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,279 a suit is made by a tailor, every single specification 431 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,400 customized to that golfer and his size, strength, athletic ability, 432 00:24:06,519 --> 00:24:10,359 and swing characteristics. Now there's a bunch of golfers out 433 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,759 there who go, oh, hogwash, I'm not good enough for 434 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,680 custom fitting to matter. I'm only a sixteen handicap. If 435 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,039 I ever get good and start breaking eighty, then I'll 436 00:24:20,079 --> 00:24:23,319 think about custom fitting, because then it'll matter. That's one 437 00:24:23,319 --> 00:24:26,160 of the biggest myths in the golf equipment industry, and 438 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,000 it is so wrong. It is, in fact the opposite 439 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,960 the average players, the golfers who shoot low eighties and 440 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:35,799 higher up to one hundred. These are the people for 441 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,279 whom professional club fitting will help the most. The people 442 00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:43,440 who are single digit and low single digit handicappers, they're 443 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,960 really good because they're better golf athletes who've learned better 444 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,599 swing fundamentals. Thus, over the years, as they go out 445 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,920 and try different clubs, they find what works for them, 446 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,960 they self fit themselves. So professional fitting for like a 447 00:24:58,039 --> 00:25:00,799 two handicapper, about the o only thing you're going to 448 00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:03,400 achieve is a sense of confidence in the golfer that 449 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,920 he now knows his club's are right for him. But 450 00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:09,359 professional club fitting for someone who's eighteen or a twenty 451 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:15,160 six handicap most definitely can get them measurable improvement overnight. 452 00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:18,720 Because more than likely the standard made clubs that they 453 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:22,640 bought off the rack are preventing them from being able 454 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,079 to play to the best of their ability. You know. 455 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,839 But the problem is is that professional club fitting isn't marketed. 456 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,200 You know. The entities who work within, you know, the 457 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,920 professional club fitting arena just they're not big enough. They 458 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,039 just don't have the money and the resources to go 459 00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:41,359 out there and shout this message to the millions of 460 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,640 golfers that there is a better way, you know, for 461 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,759 them to get their golf clubs so that they could 462 00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:48,480 play better and enjoy the game more. 463 00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 2: This is so fascinating to me that you say that 464 00:25:57,319 --> 00:25:59,839 it's important for them, that it will help their game. 465 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,640 But the amateurs that I talk to regularly, what they 466 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,920 say is, I don't want to get fit now because 467 00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:10,440 I'm going to take a lesson or two and then 468 00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:13,000 my swing's going to change, and then the clubs will 469 00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:17,119 be obsolete at that point, true or fallow. 470 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,559 Speaker 1: Well, that's okay, that's that's a noble thought, you know. 471 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,359 I mean, here's forty years of experiencing golf. The number 472 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,400 of golfers who think about taking lessons and working their 473 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,200 tail off to really make major swing changes to really improve. 474 00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:34,920 That's great if you can do it, but the vast 475 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,000 majority of people never get around to it. You know, 476 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,279 it's best way plans of mice and men. Sure you know, 477 00:26:41,839 --> 00:26:44,000 you know, so you know this is one of the 478 00:26:44,039 --> 00:26:49,759 reasons why the average golfer handicap never goes down. You know, 479 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,319 they're just you know, there are people who would love 480 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,000 to take lessons. They may start and because they don't 481 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,400 get an instant success or because they don't have four 482 00:26:58,519 --> 00:27:01,160 or five days a week to hit ball, you know, 483 00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:05,359 under proper supervision to groop the new swing change, the 484 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,200 lesson improvement doesn't happen, you know, for them. But you know, 485 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,640 when we teach club fitters, you know the interaction you know, 486 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,960 with golfers. One of the things we teach them is 487 00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:18,039 right when they start with the golfer, to ask the golfer. 488 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,079 You know, a whole number of questions, but one of 489 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,480 them is are you presently taking lessons? If so, how 490 00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:28,279 much are you working on making your swing changes? And 491 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,799 are you definitely starting to see these swing changes occur 492 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,119 to the point where you're confident that you will make 493 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,759 these swing changes from the lessons you're taking okay. If 494 00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:44,079 they answer yeah, yes, then you fit the clubs for 495 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,880 how they're going to be, or you tell them to 496 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,160 come back after you feel and after they feel that 497 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,200 they have grouped the new swing characteristics. But if you 498 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,119 get any bit of doubt in there, you know that 499 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,599 the golfer is not going to follow through with this, 500 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,119 You know deep commitment that it takes to really be 501 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:05,079 taking lessons and improving through practice. Then you fit the 502 00:28:05,079 --> 00:28:07,559 clubs for how they are now you know, And that's 503 00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:11,319 how it's done at the end of the day. Here's 504 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,079 the things like if you do have custom fit clubs 505 00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:16,240 and then let's say you go out and take lessons, 506 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,000 here are the things that have to happen before those 507 00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:22,839 clubs don't fit you anymore. One, if you gain more 508 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,680 than ten miles an hour in club headspeed, okay, then 509 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,920 your chaft flexes probably need to be stiffer. Two, if 510 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,400 you all of a sudden somehow increase your tempo or 511 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,920 your swing aggressiveness, potentially at this point, the weight of 512 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,200 your golf clubs may need to be heavier than what 513 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,759 they were before. The other elements in there, you know, 514 00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:50,359 in terms of lengths, lie angles, loft angles, no, you know, 515 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,480 they you know, they can stay the same even if 516 00:28:52,519 --> 00:28:55,160 you do make major swing improvements. You know for this, 517 00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:58,039 so you know, it's a little bit of a misnumber 518 00:28:58,039 --> 00:29:00,279 when somebody says, well, I'm going to be taking and 519 00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:02,240 so I don't want to be fitting out. Okay, fine, 520 00:29:02,519 --> 00:29:05,200 go do it. And if you do find you you know, 521 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,880 get through it and you make swing changes, great, then 522 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,480 go get custom fit. But because the vast majorities don't, 523 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,160 you know, it's really a situation where go in now 524 00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:19,160 with your swing as it is now. The professional club 525 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,200 fitter will see all these things. And the way that 526 00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:26,440 you will improve is you will if you're fit properly. 527 00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:30,279 The new clubs are going to reduce the severity and 528 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:35,599 the frequency of your worst shots. So what really good 529 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,559 club fitting does. It doesn't sure you and all of 530 00:29:38,599 --> 00:29:41,119 a sudden you hit the ball straight. And further, it 531 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,400 reduces the severity and the frequencies of your bad shots, 532 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,480 so you're in play more often, you have more open 533 00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:50,519 shots to the greens, and the percentage of scoring better 534 00:29:50,599 --> 00:29:55,799 improves as a result from that. You know, so most people, 535 00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:58,880 you know, those who shoot between low eighties and hundred 536 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,519 from proper club fitting if they've been playing with standard 537 00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:05,880 clubs off the rack, it's extremely common to see improvements 538 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,359 of three to ten shots from professional club hitting. 539 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: That's amazing, all right, So let's paint this scenario. You 540 00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:15,599 got a thirty year old guy who has recently fallen 541 00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:17,240 in love with the game and now he wants to 542 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,000 play more. Except he's married, he travels for work, he 543 00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:23,160 doesn't get a lot of time to practice. He did 544 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,319 take a lesson and learned a couple of things, but 545 00:30:25,799 --> 00:30:27,519 doesn't have time to do that again, and just wants 546 00:30:27,559 --> 00:30:30,519 to get back on the golf course. You're saying that 547 00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:33,319 if he just with that kind of game and that 548 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,799 kind of commitment, that if he goes and has a 549 00:30:36,839 --> 00:30:40,400 custom club fitter watch him swing, work with him, and 550 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,000 develop a set of clubs for them, that they're going 551 00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:46,880 to cut seven to ten strokes off and they can 552 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,799 hold on to those clubs for a long time and 553 00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:53,039 have success with them. 554 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely happens every day, you know, with the you know, 555 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,000 the professional club fitters out there. You know, it doesn't 556 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,359 happen to millions, It happens to thousands, you know, because 557 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,440 professional club fitting is just so unknown. 558 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,039 Speaker 2: When when you talk about how the courses they need 559 00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:14,720 to now they're going to need to be eight thousand yards. 560 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,839 But there are no courses being built, are there? No? 561 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: Now there are more courses closing that are than our 562 00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:25,160 opening each year because of the drop in participation of 563 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,759 the game that you know the thing. We just want 564 00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:30,240 to try and keep as many courses alive as possible. 565 00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:34,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So what are these what are club makers? 566 00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:38,400 The major manufacturers, the ones that send just big boxes 567 00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:40,799 and say these will all fit for you. What are 568 00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:42,680 they going to do next? You can't They're going to 569 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,000 paint the heads red and green and say they know what, 570 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,640 the white didn't work for tailor made as you opened 571 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,640 up with, or it works for a while, you know, I. 572 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,039 Speaker 1: Mean there's still things being pushed out there. You know that, 573 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,880 like for for example, right now, one of the current 574 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,279 technologies a lot of the companies are all following is 575 00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:08,599 putting a slot into the heads, most frequently done on 576 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,519 the sole of the club, very close to the out 577 00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:12,799 of the face. And the idea that they're getting at 578 00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:15,119 is to say, if you hit the you know, if 579 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,000 you hit the ball, you know that slot flexes so 580 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,759 you get more spring face. You know, you get better 581 00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:26,160 ball street and distance. Okay, the problem is that, you know, 582 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,279 you can't exceed the USGA CR limit of eight point thirty. 583 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,160 You know, so most of the companies have already been 584 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,960 designing heads with thin faces made from high strength alloys, 585 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,200 which achieve as high have a CR as you possibly can. 586 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,400 And not only that, when you make a thin face club, 587 00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:47,440 you can hit it low on the face, you can 588 00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:49,480 hit it on the heel side, the tow side, the 589 00:32:49,559 --> 00:32:51,839 high side. The face is still going to get some 590 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,799 flexing to get you a little bit more distance with 591 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,359 a slot that only exists on the bottom of the 592 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,319 golf club. What if you hit it towards a toe 593 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,240 higher on the face, there's no slot over there, so 594 00:33:03,319 --> 00:33:06,240 the face camplex as much in these different areas. So, 595 00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:11,279 you know, here's an example of just how marketing invisible 596 00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:15,759 technology to the eye can fool someone. And then, oh, 597 00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:17,960 by the way, they're still bought off the rack, so 598 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,240 they're probably too long, the wrong weight, the wrong face angle, 599 00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:25,119 potentially the wrong loft, the wrong light angle, wrong grip size, 600 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,519 you know, and there you go, they don't fit. 601 00:33:28,119 --> 00:33:36,319 Speaker 2: You know, from that standpoint, this is something that you 602 00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:38,720 and I talk about almost every time. But I continue 603 00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:42,920 to get questions like this, and that is the off 604 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,640 the shelf driver that they're buying every three years, which 605 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,079 isn't necessary with the longer shaft. Now, if I remember correctly, 606 00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:56,519 you're an advocate of shorter shafts for a driver for 607 00:33:56,599 --> 00:33:57,519 greater accuracy. 608 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,039 Speaker 1: Yep, there's really a definite adage. There's a definite old 609 00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:05,319 adage that clubfitters learned right away when they get into 610 00:34:05,359 --> 00:34:08,039 the field goes like this. The longer the length of 611 00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:10,920 the club, the lower the loft of the club, the 612 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,400 stiffer the shaft in the club, and the heavier the 613 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,360 weight of the club, the harder the club will be 614 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,599 to hit. Okay, with a driver, you've got low loft 615 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,719 and you've got longer length, two things going against you. 616 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,360 The other thing, it's a fact, you know, the longer 617 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,360 the length of the driver, the more stress or load 618 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,639 it puts on your swing, the more it can break 619 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,960 down weak elements in your swing to make you less consistent. 620 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,800 There was no reason whatsoever the drivers needed to be 621 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,679 increased in length from the forty three inches they were 622 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,239 for decades to the point of they are today between 623 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,719 forty five and forty six inches in length. The reason 624 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,440 it was done was because all the companies know that 625 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,119 distance or the potential for distance, sells more golf clubs 626 00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:02,320 than any other factor in the go equipment history, and 627 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,760 so people are associated with the thought longer length means 628 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,719 higher club head speed, which means more distance. Problem means 629 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,159 it's not true for all golfers, and it's not true 630 00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:15,320 for the majority of golfers. You have to have a 631 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,360 lader to very late unhinging of the risk coock angle 632 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,519 on the downswing before a longer length can turn into 633 00:35:21,559 --> 00:35:25,000 higher clubhead speed. But even for those people who do 634 00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:28,400 have a late release, longer length puts more load on 635 00:35:28,559 --> 00:35:31,559 stress on the swing, and so the longer the length, 636 00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:33,920 the higher the percentage of off center hits will be. 637 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,039 You miss the center of the face of your driver 638 00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:39,519 by a half inch, you've lost five percent of your 639 00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:42,920 total distance. You miss that center of the face by 640 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,039 one inch, you've lost ten percent of your total distance potential. 641 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,599 So this is the double edged sword and the misinformation 642 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,280 that the long driver lengths are perpetuating, and I think 643 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,519 probably as I mentioned before, one of the biggest ways 644 00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:03,559 to try right have proved the golfers that these off 645 00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:06,639 the rack forty five to forty six inch driver lengths 646 00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:09,559 are not right for them? Is that? For a very 647 00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:12,559 long time now, the average driver length on the PGA 648 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,039 Tour has been forty four and a half inches, not 649 00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:19,440 the forty five to forty six inches that average golfers 650 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,480 are being told is right for them. Why did the 651 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,599 tour players play with shorter length drivers, even as good 652 00:36:26,599 --> 00:36:29,519 as they are, because they know they can't control the 653 00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:32,519 longer length driver, you know, as well as they can, 654 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,440 you know, one that's shorter, it's no different for the 655 00:36:35,519 --> 00:36:38,840 average player. And it's even more so. And I can't 656 00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:42,360 tell you how many golfers have been fit with forty 657 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,559 three and a half to forty four inch long drivers 658 00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:48,239 and walked away with an immediate improvement in their t 659 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,639 shot game without losing a single yard. And in fact, 660 00:36:52,679 --> 00:36:55,880 for me, they gain distance because now they're hitting the 661 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,679 ball more consistently on center and not losing distance from 662 00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:03,039 the off center hit, you know, for this, So I mean, 663 00:37:03,039 --> 00:37:06,199 if nothing else, you know, for most average players, if 664 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,480 they just go get fit with a shorter driver that 665 00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:12,800 has loft, which is better fit to their clubhead speed, 666 00:37:13,679 --> 00:37:16,599 and which has a face angle which will counteract their 667 00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:20,360 tendency to slice the ball or hook it. You know, 668 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,960 the miles a hit than where they would have been 669 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,400 just trying to buy something off the wrap. 670 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,199 Speaker 2: That is so interesting. It's amazing how many myths are 671 00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:33,119 out there about what you should have in your bag. 672 00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:37,760 The other issue that always comes up in my conversations 673 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,800 with people is, oh, man, a custom club fitter, it's 674 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,639 going to be so much more expensive than if I 675 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,440 just buy something over at the local retail store. 676 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: And that's not true really, you know, because for one thing, 677 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,079 the custom club fitters are all under marketed. You know, 678 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,920 very few people know they exist. Many custom club fitters, 679 00:37:58,039 --> 00:38:00,639 you know, they have a hard time going to living 680 00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:03,679 because they don't have enough customers because not very many 681 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,079 people know about them. And so you're going to find 682 00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:11,960 that the vast majority of professional custom club fitters are 683 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,239 never going to end up charging you any more for 684 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,320 your golf clubs than what you would have paid when 685 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,400 you walked into a big box store and bought a 686 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:19,880 big brand name club off the rap. 687 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 2: Okay, Tom, you've just given us an amazing lesson on 688 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,159 the value of custom club fitters and why we should 689 00:38:28,199 --> 00:38:30,920 really seek one out. Please, give us a tip on 690 00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:34,360 how to find a custom club fitter fed you know. 691 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: For those who are interested in professional club fitting. You know, 692 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,199 it is a buyer beware market. These guys, you know, 693 00:38:39,199 --> 00:38:42,400 are sometimes hard to find, so let me give you 694 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,920 a little tip on how to find a good professional 695 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,159 club fitter. Okay, go to Google, Okay, and in Google, 696 00:38:50,639 --> 00:38:55,119 you know, search for the Association of Golf Club Fitting 697 00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:03,519 Professionals AGCP club Fitter or search for the International Clubmaker's 698 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:09,000 Guild ICG Golf Clubfitter. Both of these are the professional 699 00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:14,559 organizations of serious professional clubfitters. On their sites, they both 700 00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:16,880 have search engines so that you can go in there 701 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,639 and look to see who among the AGCP club fitters 702 00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:23,519 and the ICG club hitters are close to your area. 703 00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:28,440 Both of these professional club fitting organizations have certification programs 704 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,199 just like a Mister Good Ranch for mechanics, So if 705 00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:36,719 you find an AGCP clubfitter or an ICG clubmaker near you, 706 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,119 they will be good. They will know what they are 707 00:39:39,159 --> 00:39:43,639 doing and you will get a good fit. My company, 708 00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:47,280 we screen the club fitters that we work with, so 709 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,639 if people were to go to our website, which is 710 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,360 wish on golf dot com Right in the middle of 711 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,559 the homepage is a find a Clubfitter locator search tool. 712 00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:02,920 Click on that, put in your town, state, country, and 713 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,639 will come. If we have a screened club fitter in 714 00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:09,679 your area, you'll find it right there. So those are 715 00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:12,880 your best options right now. I hate to be critical, 716 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,280 but you're not going to be professionally custom fit. When 717 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,400 you go into a big box retail store, it doesn't 718 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:19,760 happen