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<v Speaker 1>Around. This is the seventy seven WABC Mini cast.

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<v Speaker 2>What oh me, Oh my gosh, there's Dave Crawford. Dave

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<v Speaker 2>Crawford is in Scotland. Welcome to the Other Side of Midnight.

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<v Speaker 2>David Crawford as a truly amazing, spiritual and an important story.

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<v Speaker 2>You took quite a journey, David. You went into a coma.

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<v Speaker 2>Before we find out what you found in that comma?

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<v Speaker 2>What you saw in that comma? How did you get

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<v Speaker 2>into a coma? What happened?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, thanks all that for having me on. Well what

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<v Speaker 1>happened was basically, I drank too much alcohol and ruined

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<v Speaker 1>my liver and subsequently died twice on the operating theater.

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<v Speaker 1>Through that, I was taken to hospital, had two blood transisions,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was in Nicoma for five days and people

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<v Speaker 1>were genuinely surprise that I survived. So that's how I

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<v Speaker 1>ended up there.

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<v Speaker 2>You drank too much, you went into a blackout or

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<v Speaker 2>did you get into an accident?

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, I never went to an accident. I had

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<v Speaker 1>to bleed parises in my esophagus, which is near hand

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<v Speaker 1>fatal about fifteen percent of the time.

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<v Speaker 2>That's terrifying. I'm just kind of guessing you don't drink anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>Good decision. That was a good decision on your part. Excellent.

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<v Speaker 2>Did this happen in Scotland?

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<v Speaker 1>No, I don't live in Scotland. I live near the border,

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<v Speaker 1>but I live in England. I live in a county

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<v Speaker 1>called Northumberland, which is in England, but it's on the

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<v Speaker 1>border of Scotland.

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<v Speaker 2>And were you in a hospital or you at home? No?

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<v Speaker 1>I was in a hospital. I'd gone into hospital, my

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<v Speaker 1>wife would take me there and basically I was sitting

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<v Speaker 1>in the waiting room I collapsed and one of the

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<v Speaker 1>receptionists had seen this before and she knew exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>was happening. Luckily, I was next go to the accident

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<v Speaker 1>emergency that took me straight in and basically operated on

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<v Speaker 1>me within half an hour.

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<v Speaker 2>What was the operation that they performed, if I may ask.

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<v Speaker 1>The operation? I don't know what it's like in the US,

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<v Speaker 1>but in England, in Britain, they're quite cagey about telling

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<v Speaker 1>you what they've done, so I do really yeah, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's not prevalent, it's not not available so much.

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<v Speaker 1>You know that they'll fix you up, but you really

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<v Speaker 1>have to ask for what they've done. So I had

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<v Speaker 1>an operation on the varses, which are the other blood

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<v Speaker 1>vessels do from your It's from your esophagus which had burst,

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<v Speaker 1>so basically I was coughing of black blood. So they

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<v Speaker 1>have to bind them back together and then all other

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of things. After stomach pump you they have to

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<v Speaker 1>do all sorts of that kind of thing. But there

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<v Speaker 1>was I know that I had two blood transfusions. My

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<v Speaker 1>wife got the call from the surgeon saying it's unlikely Lad,

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<v Speaker 1>he's going to make it. So she had to leave work,

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<v Speaker 1>come straight away and have you know, the chat with

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<v Speaker 1>the surgeon that I'm probably not going to make it,

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<v Speaker 1>but obviously I did.

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<v Speaker 2>Is she still with you?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes she is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a very patient, brave woman.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah she is. She's a great woman. She she looked

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<v Speaker 1>after me when I tried to go sober and I

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<v Speaker 1>did it, you know, without any help. And I did

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<v Speaker 1>that for about five days, flying in bed, which is

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<v Speaker 1>one of the most stupid things you could possibly do,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's exactly what I did. But she stayed with

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<v Speaker 1>me the whole time.

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<v Speaker 2>You're both lucky that you're still alive. Now, please share

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<v Speaker 2>with us, David Crawford, what happened when you slipped into

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<v Speaker 2>a coma, how that feels? What the hell does a

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<v Speaker 2>coma feel like? And then share with us the experiences

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<v Speaker 2>that you encountered in the comma.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, this is not difficult to talk about because emotionally

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<v Speaker 1>it's difficult to describe because if you haven't done it,

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<v Speaker 1>then it's quite difficult to put it across. But I'll

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<v Speaker 1>tell you briefly. What happened was, I didn't know that

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<v Speaker 1>I was in a different state. Well, we'll just put

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<v Speaker 1>it that way. I was in a different state. I

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<v Speaker 1>felt fine, and it wasn't a case of leaving the

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<v Speaker 1>body or turn around seeing my body, but I had

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<v Speaker 1>I was walking around the hospital as it is geographically

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<v Speaker 1>the same, and I felt great. You know, at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>I had catheters in, I had you know, lines in

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<v Speaker 1>my arms and all that sort of business. But I

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<v Speaker 1>felt great. And I saw a nurse who was basically

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<v Speaker 1>in anapronism. She looked like she was nine from the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifties. She had like a bonnet and you know

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<v Speaker 1>the way they dressed in the fifties and not like

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<v Speaker 1>today's medical staff. And I asked if she could help

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<v Speaker 1>me and she could just let me out because I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to go home, and she said, no, you can't.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to rest, you have to sleep. You're not well.

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<v Speaker 1>But I feel great. I really did feel fantastic. I

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<v Speaker 1>felt like I wrote a marathon and I never felt

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<v Speaker 1>like that for for years because of the heavy drink.

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<v Speaker 1>And she she says, look, you just have to just

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<v Speaker 1>accept that you're not well. You need to lie down

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<v Speaker 1>to go to sleep, and I didn't do that. So

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<v Speaker 1>she was going around doing a rounds on the wad

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<v Speaker 1>looking after patience. And it's a very difficult thing to

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<v Speaker 1>describe because she was very vivid, whereas everybody else was muted,

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<v Speaker 1>like say, you had I don't know, a miss in

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<v Speaker 1>your eye or cateract. Everything else is sort of muted,

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<v Speaker 1>whereas she was very, very vivid. And what happened was

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<v Speaker 1>towards the end of a shift, I noticed that she

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<v Speaker 1>was quite annoyed with me, but I didn't take her advice.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't lie down, I didn't go to sleep. I

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<v Speaker 1>just followed her around, keep asking if I can just

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<v Speaker 1>go home, and she wouldn't let me go home. And

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<v Speaker 1>it basically goes from her. She handed me over to

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<v Speaker 1>somebody else, to a doctor, and again the doctor was very,

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<v Speaker 1>very different to what you see as a normal doctor.

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<v Speaker 1>He repeated the same things. You know, you have to

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<v Speaker 1>lie down, you're very sick, and it keeps saying over

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<v Speaker 1>and over again, I feel fantastic. I just want to

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<v Speaker 1>go home, and you can't go home. Nobody's going to

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<v Speaker 1>discharge him. And it became very, very frustrating. And then

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<v Speaker 1>that was the point when I realized I'm no longer

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<v Speaker 1>alive in this sense that we think we're alive right now,

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<v Speaker 1>I thought, now there's something fundamentally different here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, go ahead, So oh wait, wait a second, wait

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<v Speaker 2>a second. Let me just say one thing. It's thirty

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<v Speaker 2>past the hour. You and I are on WGN in Chicago,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're talking to David Crawford who's on the border

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<v Speaker 2>of Scotland. David went into a coma after a unfortunate

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<v Speaker 2>medical event. He went into a coma, and while in

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<v Speaker 2>that coma, he died and he saw the afterlife. And

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<v Speaker 2>he's right about at that point to share that story

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<v Speaker 2>with us. David, go ahead, please here. I love your

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<v Speaker 2>voice and I'm mesmerized by this story, so please.

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<v Speaker 1>There's millions of people who speak like me up here.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it was very very disoriented. It's not scary.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like you know, a horror movie scary. It's

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<v Speaker 1>disoriented and it's uncomfortable, and you don't quite know where

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<v Speaker 1>you are and how what the rules are? You just don't.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to figure it out quick, which hopefully I

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<v Speaker 1>managed to do. In the book. The second part of

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<v Speaker 1>the book is about how to navigate this, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>this alien terrain that you find yourself in.

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<v Speaker 2>And what was the most surprising thing about this alien terrain?

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<v Speaker 2>Did you realize that you were that you had died?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it didn't come quick. It was a slow,

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<v Speaker 1>very slow kind of revelation that I was no longer

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<v Speaker 1>physically alive. It didn't come as as a lightning bolt,

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, I'm dead. It was slow, slowly revealed.

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<v Speaker 1>Put it that way, and then once you're in that position,

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<v Speaker 1>then you can maybe do something about it. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>it was very slow to me. Maybe it isn't two

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<v Speaker 1>other people, but it was very slow to me because again,

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<v Speaker 1>like I said, I felt absolutely great. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you feel you were in a good place or

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<v Speaker 2>that you were going to hell?

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<v Speaker 1>No, I didn't feel I was going to hell. I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't feel I was going to a good place either.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it felt to me very much like the processing plant.

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<v Speaker 1>I was being processed for something, maybe a rebirth, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, but there was there was. It's very different

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<v Speaker 1>to most near death experiences. And this wasn't the subject

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<v Speaker 1>that I ever really looked into. It's not my It

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't my thing. It isn't my thing. It was simply

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<v Speaker 1>my recollection of what happened to me. I wrote it down,

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<v Speaker 1>no notion of publishing it. I wrote it down for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Is a recollection for me, and I just describe what

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<v Speaker 1>happened to me. That's not to say that anybody else

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<v Speaker 1>is wrong, and I'm right. It's just I didn't see

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<v Speaker 1>any tunnels of light. I didn't see any religious icons.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't see anything, you know, like past relatives or

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<v Speaker 1>friends who have died.

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<v Speaker 2>So what did you say anything? What did you say?

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<v Speaker 1>All I saw was people who were passing me on,

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<v Speaker 1>who got pretty annoyed with me, keep asking questions, and

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<v Speaker 1>I don't I use the term of the book psychopomp.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't use the term guide a guide in you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in our Western so is kind of benevolent there for

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<v Speaker 1>your help. I use the term psycho pomp, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a Greek word, because it's it's not loaded with that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of benevolence. They had a job to do. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know who pays them. I don't know why they're there.

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't got a clue. But I was passed up

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<v Speaker 1>the chain to various various psychopomps, and they kept telling

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<v Speaker 1>me the same thing. They kept repeating that I needed

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<v Speaker 1>to lie down, I need to go to sleep, I

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<v Speaker 1>need to rest. I'm very sick. But you know evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>I saw with my eyes and heard with my ears.

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<v Speaker 1>I felt fine. I felt really really good, And all

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to do was get out of that hospital.

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<v Speaker 1>All right.

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<v Speaker 2>This is David Crawford. What's the name of the book.

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<v Speaker 1>It's called A Manual for the Dead?

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<v Speaker 2>A Manuel for the Day had a Manual for the

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<v Speaker 2>Dead by David Crawford. Well written, great story. Man went

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<v Speaker 2>into a coma, died, went to heaven or someplace and.

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<v Speaker 1>Lived.

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<v Speaker 2>How long was the coma?

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<v Speaker 1>Five days?

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<v Speaker 2>Five days? And when you were in it, did you

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<v Speaker 2>have a sense of a passage of time in the

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<v Speaker 2>traditional sense, when you came out after five days. Were

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<v Speaker 2>you surprised?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and what it was? The sun comes up, the

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<v Speaker 1>sun goes down, the moon comes out exactly as in

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<v Speaker 1>real time. There was no quickening of time, there was

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<v Speaker 1>no slow of time. Twelve hours feels like twelve.

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<v Speaker 2>Hours as you've gotten away from that event in time

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<v Speaker 2>when you look back on it and think about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was there a lesson something valuable you got from that

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<v Speaker 2>that you couldn't see right at that moment, but you

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<v Speaker 2>do now.

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<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say it's changed my perception on death, but

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<v Speaker 1>it changed what I thought might might happen. I did

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<v Speaker 1>honestly think when you die that there'll be people who

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<v Speaker 1>meet you, maybe past relative of friends who've died. I've

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<v Speaker 1>lost two good friends in my life and I did

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<v Speaker 1>think maybe that would happen, and it didn't. Is that

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<v Speaker 1>a good thing or a bad thing? I can't say.

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<v Speaker 2>Got it. Has it made you more religious or less religious?

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<v Speaker 1>That's that's a difficult one, really, because you know, I've

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<v Speaker 1>I've always been kind of religious. I've spent two years

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<v Speaker 1>as a zen Buddhist monk. Wow. So I went to

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<v Speaker 1>a monastery when I was twenty years old, and I

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<v Speaker 1>came out at twenty too, So I was interested in

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<v Speaker 1>lots of different religions. My dad raised me, probably not

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<v Speaker 1>in the you know, the more sort of orthodox style

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<v Speaker 1>of Christianity. He was very interested in stuff like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the Early Church, the Gnostic Church right right, and so on.

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<v Speaker 1>So I've always been interested in religion, theology, etc. But

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<v Speaker 1>I've always come at it from a from a Buddhist

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<v Speaker 1>bed of Like I say, I've spent two years in

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<v Speaker 1>a monastery, and I've been very many many monasteries in

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<v Speaker 1>my time looking at the Buddhism Zen Buddhism, especially in

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<v Speaker 1>Shinong Buddhism.

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<v Speaker 2>David Crawford, author of What's the.

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<v Speaker 1>Name of What's the Name of the Manual for the Dead?

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<v Speaker 2>Manual for the Dead, thank you very much for being

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<v Speaker 2>on the other side of Midnight,